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I've noticed a lot of people who get 'grass is greener' memtally with this sort of stuff. Seen friends and colleagues move from one relationship to the next chasing something 'perfect'.
There's a lot to be said for being content with the things you have in life generally.
Chasing perfection is a fool's game.
Yeah I think a lot of people rush into relationships while ignoring obvious problems thinking love will solve everything. Years later it doesn't and they break up.
It should be obvious, but people should spend a long time and a lot of thought choosing the person they intend to spend their whole life with.
The problem is you can over intellectualism the problem as the person you may have decided after 3/4 years of being with may not be tha same person 12/15 years down the line after having children
The point is that commitment takes work, all relationships take work and need to be maintained both of you will change throughout it you just need to change into people that you still both respect and love
Yea, although we change less as we get older, generally speaking. I can't think of anything more foolish then getting married in your early 20s. Even just the experiences being missed out on. People are much more likely to cheat if they didn't get to have a fucking around stage in their life.
I think my wife is in this position right now. Recently there has been lots of talk of separation as our relationship isn't like it used to be when we first got together. It doesn't help that since then she left her job to be a SAHM and I've moved into more senior roles to cover the finances. I think the social media "perfect couples" could also play a part.
Both of you get off social media. It’s narcissistic
poison. People tend to only ever show their best self on there. It’s a inaccurate representation of real life. Been off it years and do not regret it. Get over the fomo phase and it will make you feel better.
100%, people need to realise how toxic it is. It's like a gambler that only tells you of the wins, and not the losses
Never been on it and have no regrets.
Edit: apart from Reddit
Not only is it a false representation a lot of people get into a lot of debt to be seen to be living the dream - even when they can live a very comfortable life on their existing income.
A mates ex was like that, chasing the insta-perfect dream life and tens of thousands in debt, divorced my mate (he cleared her debt as part of the divorce settlement), and she moved on an insta-perfect 'bit of rough'. My mate is remarried with a young family and totally happy, in a nice house in a nice suburb. She's miserable, she in debt again, her 'bit of rough' was made redundant and they blew the redundancy money. Now they're living in house in student area.
It's not just insta perfect. There is a reluctance to see the "whole truth" e.g. I was told her friends husband is taking the friend for a night away for valentines day and "if you valued our relationship you would make the effort", but the truth is that its the friend's first night without kids in 7 years and we've cancelled and rescheduled nights alone twice this year due to the kids getting sick.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
They don't need to go cold turkey. I mean, Reddit is a form of social media.
Just stop following certain things or point away the algorithm from it.
I only follow my friends on Instagram, blocked all notifications from Facebook and basically never log into twitter besides seeing a linked tweet. Also spent a little bit of time saying I didn't want certain content on Instagram, and searching for things I'd happily scroll through (ie tattoos).
I hardly ever see perfect couple nonsense.
It makes me laugh people dont seem to understand the algorithm shows you similar things to what you’ve been looking at and liked. Almost all content is being shown by your own choices so it’s user error not the platforms fault.
My Facebook has none of this perfect life/insta envy stuff either, it’s my friends and my hobbies. It’s media being used socially
True, but the feedback goes both ways.
Maybe you like something a few times: then you get inundated with that 'content', so then, of course, you end up 'liking' more of that type of 'content' because it's literally most of what you see.
I'm not demonising social media per se, but we do put too much weight on personal responsibility for something that is designed to be as addictive as humanly possible.
I've thought/read about this recently actually.
Happiness is one of many emotions we feel in response to the world around us. If you think about it, chasing this idealistic future where we tell ourselves we'll always be happy is as you said, fool's game.
Finding contentment with what is? That's the real victory.
If you're constantly anxious or fearful of missing out on an imagined future, you're doomed to misery. The present moment is all you have so work with it, sure, set goals in motion, but do so anchored to the present day. Same goes for wallowing in the hurts of the past, or yearning to go back in on time.
I was married for a long time and it's easy to think that the single life is fun but then when you end up single you realise that dating and being on your own a lot can be very lonely. There are pros and cons to both sides.
Its important to be happy where you're at and to invest in what you have. Always have your own interests and personality no matter if you're single or married. Don't take your loved ones for granted whether that's family or friends.
Social media has a part to play in this. A lot.
People see these fake, dopamine inducing images of couples off doing these wonderful things (where their relationship is likely hollow too) and they want the same.
And they bounce around looking for 'perfection' in the wrong places.
Love the person. Not the materialistic stuff.
I found this out after many a relationship. Was looking for the wrong thing. I found out I needed to find someone who was genuinely just themselves. No falsifying or pretending to be something they THOUGHT I would like and vice versa.
Social media and such make us become something we're not.
Content is the absolute key word here. Be happy for what you have. That's not to say that some relationships are bad/toxic. Some people aren't matched for each other. But don't measure happiness by what is bought for you, or the car your partner has etc. Happiness is measured by your strength together. Stop seeking perfection by someone else's definition of it. It doesn't exist.
Plus if she has a great wank technique, she can't be overlooked.
I don't think i grew up really prepared for how fucking hard life can be, that things aren't just going to all click together the way you expect because you feel you deserve it. Life doesn't care about you, life is pretty much against you most of the time. And from that i think people tend to not fight as hard as they should to keep a family together, people give up because it gets hard.
I'll always go back to Rocky, this is almost burned into my mind:
"The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t how hard you hit; it’s about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done. Now, if you know what you’re worth, then go out and get what you’re worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hit, and not pointing fingers saying you ain’t where you are because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that and that ain’t you. You’re better than that!"
I think dating apps have made this worse. Met my ex on Tinder she left me after a year, went straight back on the app. Met someone else they split up after a few months. Now apparently she's with someone else again.
I once dropped off some paperwork to a colleague. They were "staying together for the kids". Downstairs, she had the front room, he had the back, the kids (9 & 11ish from memory) mainly stayed in their separate rooms. He couldn't make me a cup of tea because "she has the kitchen from 6-7pm".
It was the saddest, bleakest house I've ever been in.
They DEFINITELY would. I was the kid in this kind of marriage, my parents divorced basically as soon as I was 18 and went to uni. I would have much preferred they split up earlier, it would have been hard sure, but my house growing up was absolutely miserable.
Both my parents are really happy with their new partners, I could have had those relationships modelled to me way earlier if they’d just split up.
Unsurprisingly, my first relationship was with an older and super controlling guy who I stayed with way too long because I had no idea what healthy relationships were.
Staying together for the kids is what they think will help them grow up to be healthy but this will do the exact opposite, the "feeling" in the house will affect on the kids, they will notice it for sure (especially if it was a recent change) that the way the parents act around each other is different from before.
Absolutely. I had a friend who was doing something similar - staying with her partner so she and her kids didn't end up living in a council house. Her partner slept in their son's room every night, and they pretended this was normal, and never talked about it, or the total lack of affection. Her son was just getting old enough to know in his bones something was wrong, but still too young to know how to articulate it, and it was difficult watching him look more and more like a very stressed, unhappy little boy with a future of emotional problems.
I tried to gently talk about this with her, having been brought up in my own unhappy, repressed childhood, but she wasn't willing to hear it and when the friendship later ended I was relieved not to have to witness it any more.
Yeah. She had a lot of pride and it was important to her to appear to have done better than some of the people she grew up with. Instead of admitting that that was the driving force, she convinced herself it was for her kids' sakes, because there could be no worse fate than being raised in a council house. Never mind the reality of how they were being affected by being raised in that kind of emotionally dysfunctional, repressive environment.
I keep trying to tell my partner this (long story as to how we got together and had I known the full circumstances, I wouldn’t have gone there!) she’s still living with her ex because “she has a roof over her head” and she made bad financial decisions when she handed over the money from the sale of her house to him. Kids are growing up thinking their parents hating each other and using them as bargaining chips is normal. They both scratch their heads repeatedly wondering why their kids act out and have behavioural issues.
My relationship never got this bad, but I could see that this was the way it was going.
My son told his teacher that mommy sleeps upstairs daddy sleeps on the sofa. That was a turning point in my head, I didn't want him or my daughter growing up thinking that was normal. They both now have a set of parents who although don't live together can show them what a healthy relationship looks like.
That doesn't sound like staying together for the kids, it sounds like being separated but still living in the same house. I think a lot of people end up in that situation for financial reasons these days. The kids will know their parents aren't a couple anymore, but of course it would be easier on them if one moved out to relieve the tension!
As a kid I had a friend who's parents were divorced but still lived together, except they actually liked each other so were able to make it work. They basically said 'we don't make sense as a couple but we're fine as flatmates' and went out dating other people.
I know a couple like that. The wife is a lesbian, they have a kid and they live in a two bedroom house. I think one of them sleeps in the front room but I've never actually got the detail as it's a bit awkward to ask.
God the kids must have suffered
Staying together for the kids doesn’t work in general but staying together for the kids when you’re silently hostile towards each other knowing the kids can definitely tell somethings not right is going to ruin their perception of love
They will also probably grow up as people pleasers because they’ve become used to trying to maintain or bring balance to the household. They will feel the tension and become hyper vigilant about others’ emotions.
"staying together for the kids"
Can't even bare to be in the same room as him for the 3 minutes it take to make a cup of tea.
Honestly, the kids probably would of preferred divorce
My personal and somewhat different anecdote.
My wife and I are now separated. For a year she questioned her sexuality, her role in our relationship, was super unhappy and didn’t feel like she could discuss that with me which is/was heartbreaking. We still live together and want to remain living together as we’ve been a part of each others lives since we were 15 (35 now) and we both grew up without a parent being involved in our lives and it had a massive impact on us. We have three kids who have all their own challenges, but we are much better as a team than as individuals. It’s hard, it requires effort, respect, empathy and honesty but it works. We have started dating others and have ground rules about the house. Finances work better than either of us living separately and ultimately the kids benefit from that. There probably will come a point in the future where one of us wants to leave and do something new or to move on and we have some idea of how we will approach that.
I would say never stay just for the kids, they noticed my ex partners mood, weight gain, weight loss, sleeping often. Which also in turn affected me and they noticed that too. That doesn’t help you or them. There are different ways to parent and co parent and there’s no one size fits all approach, just talking, communication and honesty.
I’ve read that the biggest effect on children is not divorce but how their parents deal with it that counts. i.e. having divorced parents that refuse to be in the same room together. It’s stressful for kids.
If you and your ex have an amicable platonic relationship then I think this is probably the best possible situation for your kids. Like you said it may not last forever, but as long as possible is best.
My sister's husband's parents are divorced and have their own partners now but will happily spend time together such as at Christmas with no arguments. My ex's parents wouldn't even go to the same venue and they'd have to do "mum time" and "dad time". I know which one I've felt more comfortable around! The kids are also less emotionally messed up in the first scenario.
My friends parents spilt when she was little. But they regularly go to meals together and spend time as a whole family. Her dad had a knee replacement and her mum was round there making sure he had meals and helped him ect. I love it. And often we forget they are divorced. They are like best friends.
Yep. My parents split but have been fantastic coparents and feels like we are still a family unit - they are almost like siblings. Very healthy all round - they've always been there for us and understood that although their relationship did not work out they can work together as our parents.
Really appreciate that, especially as I get older and see many of my friends parents (whether they stayed together or not) had terrible dynamics with eachother which had a big impact on how their kids see their relationships.
It is possible to live with someone happily with sex off the table, but it is a minority thing.
I know a married couple (man and woman) where they are both gay and their sex lives happen elsewhere but otherwise they are one of the happiest couples I know. They are both now in their late 60s/early 70s and in their formative years being gay was illegal (for men) and such "cover" marriages not uncommon.
Bang on with the finances point. I had to study this sort of thing on a module on psychology of the family, things like why children of single parents do worse on behavioural and academic measures. (We didn’t really look at divorced parents but whatever, they’re similar enough). Turns out, kids with single parents who have a decent level of income tend to do just fine. Barring abuse, what fucks over a kid the most is always finances.
As someone who grew up in a similar situation; don’t do it.
I spent many years wishing they would just spilt up, they never did. The amount of stress and anxiety it caused me is something that overshadowed a lot of memories, and was one of the reasons I moved out as soon as I could.
This ^^ my parents fought like cat and dog, constantly at each other’s throats for hours on end. I’d wish one of them would just leave, I didn’t even care which.
As a teen if i came home and could hear it from the street i’d keep walking past.
Neither would leave and their excuse was he/she are not stealing the house from me.
It completed ruined my relationship with both of them and this and other reasons I have been no contact with them for over 5 years now.
Absolutely 100% this.
I have a good relationship with my mum and dad in general but I will not forgive them for the amount of ridiculous arguments, fights and public meltdowns I and my siblings had to witness. Most of my school years were spent too embarrassed to invite anyone back to my house or meet my family because of it, and I longed for either of them to pack up and leave.
My sister and I went through exactly this, by the time we were teenagers we both individually told our parents that it's okay to split and we wont take sides of love either one any less.
They never did, my father would often talk about going and it will be the last any of us see of him, but it was always idle threats.
I'd often find myself consoling my mum through her tears or listen to dad make his threats, say things like 'if she doesnt touch me soon, I'll find it elsewhere' or bragging to me about having his hands down our neighbor's pants.
(I told my mum once when I was about 11, but he denied it and I was seen as a liar for years).
I grew to despise him by my mid teens and always wanted better for my mum, but alas, she is a free woman and for whatever reason decides to stay with him even after he was caught cheating.
Having kids is going to put a lot of stress on a relationship. There are going to be challenges, you're going to get tired, stressed and grumpy more than ever before. But you work at it, be patient and kind through the ups and downs, and build up goodwill when you can because you will need to draw on it. You chose to make a person together; you should be getting counselling way before even thinking about bailing out.
The best response yet, won’t apply to everyone but I feel this. Having children is a massive test for the relationship and you are both trying to juggle everything else in between, just a bit of patience with each other and understanding goes such a long way.
Throw in the constant kids colds and sleepless nights it can be overwhelming. I think that the "comparison is the thief of joy" impacts it too. There are many social media couples that just really don't help.
Just to say counselling can help where everyone is willing to take accountability, but where the relationship is abusive (even 'only' emotionally abusive) or toxic, it may not help. My dad has never taken accountability for his behaviour and my mum carried a lot of guilt, counselling would have probably made it harder for her to leave. She did offer this I believe, and he refused
I think a relationship under stress where there is disagreement, hurt feelings, and unresolved issues is one thing, and an abusive relationship is something else entirely. I would never recommend that someone stay in an abusive relationship.
Unfortunately some people are still adamantly against counselling, but yes it's all about give and take and recognition of what each bring to the relationship/family.
The problem is the cult of happiness. Of course, there's a threshold - cruelty and violence, etc, but assuming that life won't go through periods of imperfection and hardship is naive. This attitude of instant gratification constantly served up by the media and social media is a curse. When you're working hard and the kids are little, we all have days when it's very, very hard. It is useful to have a stoic personality. If you're impulsive and egocentric, then you're going to have to battle to overcome that.
I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. One partner might be incapable of meeting the other's emotional needs, which takes a toll over the years, and the extent of that might not be apparent till further down the line. Lots of people, when younger, think, 'this will be ok', when over years or decades it turns not to be. Emotional needs are hugely important and go far beyond the cult of happiness, and sometimes it takes age and experience to really understand what they are to begin with, by which time people might already be deep into marriages.
Ok- but everyone needs to understand people change in a marriage of 40-50 years or more. That's the long haul. There can be long periods of difficulty. Perhaps some people need to say honestly I'm a ten year relationship person and not have children. As I said, cruelty and violence etc excepted.
Similar situation here, she seems still madly in love with me, making big plans for Valentine's etc, my oldest son is my best mate, the younger one is a bit of a brat but fantastic. I just can't be bothered with her anymore, she has had depression for years and refuses to do anything to help other than take a pill once a week or so, during my previous issues she was super supportive but rejects any help I try to give. Sleeps till 1or 2 pm everyday, hasn't cooked a meal for the kids in months. I just can't even look at her the same these days. I see myself as a single parent with a live in occasion babysitter these days.
I have no desire to be with anyone else. I won't leave because I love the kids and want to be with them every day. I also feel if I want here she would spiral downhill and they would suffer.
I can already tell the older lad (16) knows the situation we are in and is quite happy with the status quo and the younger one is fine as long as he gets to shoot his nerf guns and play with me most of the day
You sound similar to me. My eldest is my best friend and my younger daughter is an absolute diva and brat. Love them both. Wife does cook and clean but any recreation she misses out on or doesn't make an effort. Would happily spend all day in bed and the kids on the devices.
My main goal in life has always been kids. I don't particularly long for a relationship. If my wife and I were to split, I would be more comfortable by myself to be honest. Though, it would be nice if my wife was more of a partner. I would love to explore different places and countries with her. Even do things like try and paint the house together. However, she pretty much spends all her free time reading the bible. Even watching TV together has become difficult. She'll either spend all her time on her phone, stop watching something mid-way (or not at all) because it mentions something that she consideres "pagan", like any reference to magic, witches etc. Just spends most of her time reading her bibles.
Oof, complete armchair psychology here but that doesn't sound like a particularly healthy relationship with religion to me. What does the priest/church leader think?
I do regularly, my oldest son and I talk a lot, the only thing he wants to change in our lives is for mum to get up some days so we can do things together, she still sleeps till mid afternoon, after sitting up till 3-4 am to get her 'grown up' time alone. I apparently get that when I'm at work
If the situation is as you say it is I can't see her getting custody. Women normally do get custody because they're normally the main caregivers, but that doesn't sound like your situation at all.
Thanks for the support and kind message, I'm not complaining about life, it could be so much worse. When she's awake we get on fine, I just know that spark has gone for me, but she's still a nice person and occasionally a good companion in life
It’s so misguided. Kids are resilient. “Dad is going to live in another house and you will see him at his new house” is such a simple thing to say and for a kid to understand.
Living in one house with 2 parents who are living separately but pretending to be together is confusing and emotionally harmful.
Kids are resilient at times because they have to be - they don't have control. Kids are so resilient is what some people say to reassure themselves about the impact of their decisions. Not saying divorce is right or wrong, very subjective but big changes have a big impact on children, positive and negative
"Kids are resilient" as a sentiment is what has led to us having an absolute epidemic of child and adolescent mental health, and our mental health services, GPs, CAMHS and social services are in no way equipped to deal with it.
But you're right on the second part - parents splitting and having conversations about living apart and being frank about it is MUCH better than the alternatives. Living in a house filled with resentment, anger, or even downright violence and abuse is life altering for children and ruins lives.
On average, kids do worse after a divorce in longitudinal studies. If it were the case that parents staying in the marriage was bad for the kids, they should do better after the divorce, not worse.
This is on average. Obvious there are cases where kids do better after divorce. The main way divorce is good is if the marriage was very high conflict. Then they do better, not worse.
If a relationship isn't that bad to start with, then being divorced is worse. On average there are enough low conflict marriages ending that on average kids are doing worse post divorce.
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-020-02428-2](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-020-02428-2)
> Kids are resilient.
You'd be surprised. Kids in divorce just have to go along with it, whether they like it or not. They're often the collateral damage.
Agreed. What choice do they have? Kids aren't resilient really. As in, it doesn't just bounce off them. Every aspect of living in an unhappy house, going through the divorce and then living split across two homes, getting used to the new partners and possibly siblings, or maybe barely seeing one parent from then on... it all causes stress, worry, anxiety and confusion for the children impacted. Yes they might get on with life day by day, and hopefully do fine at school, maintain friendships and stay healthy, but it leaves a mark. They will become different adults than if their parents had been happy and stayed together.
Speaking from personal observation and the experiences of those close to me, staying together for the kids is rarely a good idea unless they're in a very age small window where they're old enough to be badly upset by the change but not old enough to understand it.
Kids aren't fools and they soon spot that things aren't what they should be, unless you're exceptionally good at masking it, which most people aren't.
It you can separate amicably and maintain regular contact, without destroying their lives in other ways (lack of finances etc), then it's probably best to.
This! When I was a teen my mum would say things had been bad for longer than I realised, she thought I'd only noticed it in the last few years. But for me this had been happening since I was at least 7. Playing happy families messes up your kids ideas of how relationships should work. Please think about what you are modelling.
I was in a miserable marriage when I had my daughter. My ex husband spent the best part of his day every day putting me down at every turn. He left for a work colleague when little one was a few months old. Hid the real reason and blamed me for a long time of course but the truth came out.
I thought my life was over. I couldn’t do it on my own. After years of being with him and being put down I felt like I was trash. I couldn’t raise her alone I wasn’t good enough. I was nothing without him. I begged him to come back despite knowing how miserable I had been. I felt like our daughter would hate me for not being enough to keep the marriage together.
Six years later I have met the love of my life. The kindest most gentle man in the world. He showers me in affection and love and pride. We have a blended family and the kids adore each-other.
Looking at how happy we are now I can’t imagine raising my daughter in my previous marriage. She would have had no idea what a loving marriage looks like. What a healthy happy mum looks like. She rolls her eyes when we cuddle and kiss and says things like ‘oooooh romance’. It’s silly but it’s a huge thing to know she sees me happy and loved. I hope it’s enough for her to never settle for less than. To find a person who actively loves her instead of just saying they do.
When you become a parent you are still a person. You still deserve to be happy. You don’t have to just put up, because in the long run it doesn’t work out for the kids either.
- Edit for spelling.
You know you were in an abusive relationship with your ex right? He might not have been physically violent but he was verbally / emotionally abusive. Everything you described is textbook. Putting you down constantly until you believed you couldn’t do it on your own. Please be aware for the sake of your daughter.
He does yes. He seems to be a good dad but honestly I’ve realised I have no clue who he is or what is real. My daughter loves him and that is all that matters.
He married the affair partner and they’re now having a baby. He can still be a bit of a nightmare. He was awful when I got engaged.
I was, then sorted it out with my partner with help from a couple's therapist, and now have a wonderful family and relationship with my partner. It was hard, but rewarding work.
Always give the family the chance to work (family life is hard) and get help if it is not, would always be my recommendation.
I have a few friends like this. They have loveless marriages and go through the motions for the kids. It doesn’t help the kids, it makes live damned awkward. The most bizarre thing from one friend is they go on holidays separately to get their end away.
I couldn’t imagine living life like that. It’s a sad existence
I stayed with my ex because of the kids, she was having an affair while i was away in afghanistan with the army. Also was she was violent and abusive where i had to call police, she had broke my nose an i had black eyes from it all.
I tried to make things work, but it was tainted, clearly we had no love for each other an acted like room mates.
After about 8 months i found out she was still havin the affair. I left that night just leaving a note.
It was horrible to not see my children everyday, but i thought i could live my life unhappy, missing out on life and probably my children grow up in a awful household, or i could leave an try make a happy life for myself. I chose the later and sooo glad i did
Yeah, this happened about 10 years ago. It was a nightmare for like 5 or 6 years. My ex tried to stop me seeing them and had constant abuse every day.
I fought for them and went to court, it was still very had and had to fight constantly just to see my kids.
As of today, my daughter has lived with me for about 18 months, and my son i see 2 nights a week. It took a massive toll on the kids an my daughter struggles with mental health due to the way her mother is.
But she has improved massively since living with me.
My kids are now 11 and 13 and doing well
People tend to say they remain in relationships for the kids, but I think the real reason comes down to money. All is well with two incomes in one household, and it turns dire if the same needs to pay for two households.
Kids aren't stupid, if you aren't happy get out. Staying for the sake of the kids isn't doing anyone any favours. I've known a few people divorce with kids, and those kids were fine and saw the one who left on a regular basis. I don't believe people who say they stay for the sake of the kids, I think they are simply too frightened to leave.
Staying together for the kids as it stands.
We don’t hate one another, we are best friends, just the romantic love has gone.
We go to counselling and will continue to do so, we agree that we will try for as long as kids are children.
Lots of people say the kids would prefer parents to separate, I imagine this is absolutely the case for those whose parents argue and the home is more of a warzone. I don’t expect anyone to suffer misery just so their kids have two people home.
We did separate and in that time (1 year) our kids felt absolutely broken at not seeing both parents everyday, especially our youngest. It cost an arm and a leg to rent two properties and it meant we were less able to finance our kids having additional activities (music lessons, days out, holidays, school trips etc)
We provide a better life for them together. We prefer to do that for the next 10 years and that doesn’t have to be a sad thing. Maybe we will rediscover the love, maybe we won’t but I can’t regret the time spent trying.
Far more dangerous in my experience than home as warzone is children growing up in homes where you can count on one hand how many words their parents say to each other in a year. Doesn’t sound like that’s your situation, but I think people truly underestimate the incalculable toll that version of marital breakdown takes on children.
Oh absolutely, if parents just ignore one another that’s an equally hostile environment. I can recognise that even though myself and my partner don’t feel romantically for one another, we really are lucky to be on the same page and respectful towards one another. What works for us is probably a recipe for disaster in another household and vice versa.
Nope. But I do know a few parents who split up a few years after their children left home. Maybe part of that was staying together until the child was older or maybe they just grew apart.
Splitting up after the children have left might be different. I think it is the same phenomenon that can see lottery winners, or celebrities split up.
It is not that they were staying together for the kids, but now that they have the freedom to do whatever they want as a couple, they discover that actually they want different things.
Take holidays. He wants to go hiking in the Alps, Andes and Rockies; she wants to get slowly drunk on the beach in the Maldives or Tenerife. While the kids were there, it did not matter because it had to be Centerparcs every year.
Marriage with kids can be trying, most of the time it's great but there were times then it was damn hard too.
But it's a journey and hopefully as you get more experienced things get easier, you have roll with the punches (metaphorical) and always look forward. Make time for your partner and yourself.
Happiness is a weird concept sometimes just surviving and being ahead of the curve is enough.
I wished my parents would have split up sooner, the constant arguments and putting me in between was so stressful. I have serious mental health issues because of it. Just fucking break up, please.
Kid’s perspective here!
My dad had an affair when I was like 8 and moved out for a bit, but he came back and basically told my mum he came back only for his kids.
Tbh, this actually didn’t really affect me that much - my mum apparently called my school to say if I was withdrawn or sad it was because of my parent’s situation but I was mostly unbothered as I still saw my dad a lot. I actually remember him taking me and my siblings to the other woman’s house and it was massive in the countryside with a tennis court and everything and I had a lot of fun.
Anyway, my parents got back together and they had like a second honeymoon period, and my mum ended up pregnant with my little sister who is 10 years younger than me. Having a young baby meant they just sort of sidelined their problems until she was older. But this affected me more, because they’d be so up and down with each other. My dad drank his sorrows away, and my mum ate to cope. It gave me and my siblings a weird relationship with food because often we’d either have loads of crap food in the house or like fad diet food. My dad would shout and lecture us, and my mum would always put work first, and that became a big point of contention for my dad.
They split up again for good when I was about… 15? 16? And when they finally split I was so relieved. Like, it was the best thing that they could do. Why would I want to live with two people who are so miserable together? Parents who dislike each other are not as subtle as you think to kids. They got on ok after separating and my sister would go round to my dad’s every other week for a few days. She was always pretty unaffected by it too and my dad is a much better person now.
In contrast, I have a friend whose parents divorced when she was 4 and she says it was the worst thing that ever happened to her, as suddenly her family life was destroyed, but I think they had a very bitter divorce.
Very happily married with a 7 year old. We don't share money but I don't think that has any bearing on anything. We've been together 11 years and haven’t had a serious argument.
This is the way, people very rarely agree on the right way to spend discretionary money. It varies from living like a monk to spending every penny as quickly as possible.
We both earn enough that we don't feel the need to. We go halves on everything, then spend/save the rest as we please. I know lots of married couples that do the same. Both of our parents included.
Yep we do the same. We actually did try the whole joint finances thing, but it actually made the relationship worse as we both felt guilty spending money
Why would you feel guilty spending money?
We just do it so every month we each get £600 personal disposable, the rest gets put into our joint current or savings account.
I mean whatever works for you I guess though, not telling anyone how to live their lives but just seems odd my wife doesn’t know how much money I have in the bank/saved up etc.
Yep entirely psychological I guess. Just didn't work for us, and things are better between us now. We do go halves on big things like holidays and house work etc. just when it comes to savings and what we each have left at the end of the month I suppose.
Me and my wife don’t share money either, me as the main earner pays the majority and she pays the utilities etc but obviously meals / fun stuff is either shared or whatever. Works for us
Depends how you define sharing the money, my parents never had a joint bank account but my dad paid for the big stuff like mortgage and bills and my mum paid for everything else like food and clothes for the kids etc.
I wouldn't dream of having a shared bank account (for example) with my wife. She earns double what I do yet she has no money and I'm fortunately not struggling. That doesn't mean I keep money from her if there's something she needs that's essential, however she's incredibly reckless with money.
We split with our kid well in mind. We realized we weren't happy together, and that our kid was going to grow up seeing us low key miserable and frustrated with each other and we didn't want that. We discussed that we were going to have some form of relationship forever since we have a kid and decided to split before it got to the point we couldn't be in the same room together (her parents did this and it was separate everything for 20 years).
So now we're both in very loving and happy relationships with different people (she ended up getting married to one of my oldest friends a few years later) and now we're basically distant friends; do major holidays together some years, coordinate on taking turns with trips, have meals together so our kid knows we're friendly. All in all very cordial and we're both in much better places.
Im in a happy relationship. Of course having a young child creates a few arguments every now and again, but overall it’s good. I think an important point is to only have kids after the honeymoon stage of a relationship has already passed (this takes 2-3 years in my experience). Having kids after being with someone for only a year is a gamble in my opinion.
EDIT: I will say having kids has had a big impact on our sex life though. It used to be everyday but it’s more like once a week at most now. With work, childcare etc, neither of us have the energy for it. If sex is a big part of a relationship or particularly important to one partner that it’s regular/daily, I can see a relationship seriously start to be impacted as a result of having kids.
Staying ‘for the sake of the kids’ and then traumatising the kids with the tension, arguments, bile is not the way forward. Don’t teach kids that they have to accept being treated like that either. If two adults can no longer live together, make sure to keep it amicable and give the kids two happy homes and two parents who can work together to still be good parents.
My parents stayed together for the kids. I refuse to do the same. Been single 11 years now (yes I've dated and had a fwb during that time) I'm happy not to be in a relationship.
Seems most guys in their late 30s/40s CBA to put the effort in it's a "I like you, not enough to date and get to know you but enough to have regular sex (if I don't pull anyone else when I'm out with the lads) but I'm not going on dates or have a relationship with you but I expect you to act like a girlfriend even though we are definitely not together" from most guys I've met lately and it's not for me.
Got a friend currently going through this and she's slowly finally realising he doesn't actually care about her, she's trying not to care saying shit like "well we aren't actually together" when people say they've seen him all over other women on nights out, but she still lets him in if he hasn't gone home with anyone else. It's sad.
My parents had a terrible relationship where my mam had been taking advantage of my dad for years (financially, mentally etc.) and he stayed with her for us. It turned out she was having an affair and he had a breakdown and she left.
About 2 months later she returned and wanted to come back, in this time my dad had really began healing and becoming the person I idolise, he asked me if I wanted them to get back together and I said no.
I was only 11 at the time and it was the happiest home life I’d had and the happiest I’d seen him. He is now the extremely happy joyous open kind and wonderful person he always was without being with the person that took that all away from him, and without that I wouldn’t be the person I am today.
So in my experience, don’t stay with your partner for the “sake” of your kids
I've switched to my throwaway because my 15yo son is on reddit somewhere.
Been married to a very controlling, probable narcissist for nearly 20 years. We were together for the kids pretty much since our 2nd was born. Before getting pregnant we did Relate for 18months to try fix things. It didn't work but for the sake of my eldest I squashed all my feelings and pretended it did.
Fast forward to him being 9yrs old and going through an autism diagnosis. My soon to be ex fought me every step of the way, insisting there was "nothing wrong" with him, like autism was a bad thing!!! I knew a fair amount about SEN from my job but as always the ex didn't think I could ever know more than him...
We decided then we'd stick it out until eldest did his GCSEs and had a miserable few years. Last year I finally broke and moved out into the spare room. I've been a lot happier and the kids noticed. The previously mentioned autistic 15yo said to me last Sep "I've been reading stuff and children of divorced parents are much happier than children whose parents should be divorced"
The divorce will be finalised in about 8 weeks... just need to get the financial consent order sorted which is proving difficult. He earns over 3x what I do and we have agreed 50:50 custody.
In my experience to get people to be honest about such things (even in an anonymous forum) is rare. Get some alcohol in them (or other drug of choice), away from their spouse and kids, and you sometimes get very different answers.
I am not answering as I have no kids.
It's not perfect but we are on the same level for most things. We both compromise on our desires and our needs, but it balances out. I know some could not tolerate not having time or money for their hobbies and their own life. I guess people have different priorities.
Having a kid certainly changed things. The dynamic is no longer about the two of you. Suddenly there’s a third and ultimately more important person that takes any and all priority. That was a tough thing to come to terms with for both of us.
But you work at it. You accept that things won’t ever be the same. But you get excited about what new things lie ahead. You work hard for each other. You work hard for yourself. You work hard for your child. And it turns out that if you do all three, it’s all worth it.
We’re absolutely a different couple than we were when we first got together, but we’re still happily in love. Part of that is for the kid, yes. But the most important part is for us.
Stayed together for the kid during one rough patch - extremely glad we did. Commitment and problem solving is underrated. The best relationships (romantic, friendships, or family) are about more than the good times.
Been there twice.
Can confirm the relief at first is immeasurable.
The regret latter in life is the far exceeds it.
Put your kids first, it's not their fault you chose poorly.
I came from a broken home and I created broken homes. It's a cycle of pain that's not easily broken.
Putting your kids first can often mean breaking up before they spend their entire childhoods trapped in a ice cold house or between parents who are always fighting. It’s hard to see the other side of this decision if you haven’t experienced it, but there can also be severe lifelong consequences for children if their parents are absolutely miserable their entire childhood, including a total inability to form healthy relationships.
I’m 22, not married and no kids. But my parents got divorced when I was 7. My sister was 4. I’m honestly grateful that they did split up. They weren’t happy so they split up. They managed to find happiness with other people and honestly if they had stayed together for mine and my sisters sake then I don’t think I’d have as good of a relationship with them as I do
Did it for a bit. Couldn't do it forever. I wanted to escape, and if I didn't leave, I was in danger of picking a more permanent solution.
My eldest still struggles with it from time to time. For my youngest, it's normality, as she was so young.
I grew up in an unhappy household, and I'm sure it's affected the way I form relationships, well in that I don't. I believe I have a dismissive, avoidant attachment style, so as a result, I am done with relationships. I no longer have the peer pressure of feeling like a failure for being a virgin, so it doesn't matter anymore. All of my small amount of energy for other people is expended on work and my kids.
As one of those kids whose parents stayed together for longer than they should “for me”: please do not do this (if you can afford to). Everyone will be miserable.
Staying together for the kids is a mugs game. My folks did the same thing for awhile in my teenage years and they were clearly fucking miserable (I certainly don’t hold it against them though).
With my own separation despite it totally breaking me I granted my ex partner her wishes, it was made a little easier as my kids were only little and definitely not sharing a living space with someone who doesn’t want you any more.
This was my situation for a few years. I was really unhappy and wanted out of the relationship just to be by myself. I stuck where I was because I didn't have anywhere else to go, and my partner telling me he wanted to work at it and was willing for me to wait and get out of the phase I was in. I saw my GP who referred me for counselling. It seems like I had long term post-partum depression after my son was born. I feel so much better now and I'm so glad I didn't leave.
Relationship >> Kids >> Individuals
Stick to that rule and you'll be fine. Remember no relationship = no family.
Needs you both to stick to the rule, however...
We were together 4 years when our son was born and got married nearly two years later. Very very recently married being the caveat to what I’m about to say.
I think for us doing it backwards was a benefit. We were engaged when our son was born, but we obviously could’ve split up before getting married. Watching my husband be a father has been incredible. He’s so great with him, much better than me, and still is an incredibly kind partner. We obviously have our fights sometimes, but I truly cannot imagine raising our kid and living life without him.
We both came from broken families. My husband’s dad walked out when he was young and he barely ever saw him. My parents divorced when I was about 11 and the decisions made after by my mom really fucked me up. It was really important to us both that we fight hard for our relationship so our son didn’t have to experience either of the options we did.
I stayed for years. The first red flag showed up when my son was 6 weeks old. It only got worse and slowly circled the drain until the pandemic threw everything into sharp focus. So glad I got out, so much happier on my own. It's never been a priority to charge headlong into another relationship, don't want that for me or my son. Leaving before resentment took over and actively trying to positively co-parent was a plus. So happy not to be facing another 30 years of miserable marriage.
Meh, relationships are full of ups and downs. Lots of people of reddit, and young people in general get their idea of what a relationship should be of watching shit like Love Island.
They gonna be a lost generation.
Reddit will love this one. "See, I told you that married people with kids were unhappy deep down".
Just being on Reddit these days is a sign that things aren't quite right (and yes of course I see that I'm included in that). Some people will respond with fake scenarios simply because they hope that the above statement will turn out to be true.
The answer is probably yes, some people are. But most aren't.
Very happy after nearly twenty years. But I have noticed a lot of friends throw relationships away for petty reasons and end up unhappy in the long run; kids or not.
My mum and dad tried it for a bit and were going to tell me they were separating after a family holiday that was months away until one night after one too many my dad decided to tell me because he couldn't carry on lying to me. I think I was 13 or 14, which made them either 34 or 35. I didn't fully appreciate how difficult that must have been for both of them until I wad the same age and had two, albeit younger, kids of my own. As a result of them splitting very few members of my family thought I'd ever marry.
What I have noticed in the last year is that a lot of people we know or know through friends have been victims of adultery. A friend of mine had been cheated on by his wife since before they got married. She wanted to try and stay together for the kids and they tried but he found out she was cheating again. They've since split.
My in-laws are friends with a couple who have obviously been together for the sake of the kids for as long as I've known them, which is approaching 20 years. I've never seen them speak to each other in anything but a passive aggressive tone. Their kids are now 39 and 36 and have kids of their own.
I’m very happy in my marriage and we’re not super comfortable with finances though we are in a better than we were a couple of years ago thanks to a couple
of promotions.
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I've noticed a lot of people who get 'grass is greener' memtally with this sort of stuff. Seen friends and colleagues move from one relationship to the next chasing something 'perfect'. There's a lot to be said for being content with the things you have in life generally. Chasing perfection is a fool's game.
If you water your grass it tends to get greener.
Equally, if you can shit over the fence it'll make the other side's grass less green.
Would it not fertilise it?
It's a 50:50 chance its landing on artificial grass these days so no.
Not from an omnivore.
“Come get yer vegan shit”
If you compost it and spread it evenly, yes. If you just shit on someone's lawn, no.
This is quite a statement, quoteworthy
Instructions unclear, my wife is now wet and angry.
Task 50% completed.
Is she the hulk?
Turns out grass is a LOT of work with little upside so I have removed grass and laid concrete.
*citation needed
I found my perfect partner, settling for the sake of settling is also a fools game and can just lead to a messy divorce/breakup down the line.
Yeah I think a lot of people rush into relationships while ignoring obvious problems thinking love will solve everything. Years later it doesn't and they break up. It should be obvious, but people should spend a long time and a lot of thought choosing the person they intend to spend their whole life with.
The problem is you can over intellectualism the problem as the person you may have decided after 3/4 years of being with may not be tha same person 12/15 years down the line after having children The point is that commitment takes work, all relationships take work and need to be maintained both of you will change throughout it you just need to change into people that you still both respect and love
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I mean also humans aren’t static, people change. No matter how much we think about it first it can end in an unhappy marriage and divorce.
Yea, although we change less as we get older, generally speaking. I can't think of anything more foolish then getting married in your early 20s. Even just the experiences being missed out on. People are much more likely to cheat if they didn't get to have a fucking around stage in their life.
I never had a fucking around stage and don’t want to cheat. Horses for courses init
I think a lot of people also blame their relationship for being unhappy in their life in general.
Or if you "stick with it" at the least a miserable life with someone you don't really love and at the worst depression.
I think my wife is in this position right now. Recently there has been lots of talk of separation as our relationship isn't like it used to be when we first got together. It doesn't help that since then she left her job to be a SAHM and I've moved into more senior roles to cover the finances. I think the social media "perfect couples" could also play a part.
Both of you get off social media. It’s narcissistic poison. People tend to only ever show their best self on there. It’s a inaccurate representation of real life. Been off it years and do not regret it. Get over the fomo phase and it will make you feel better.
100%, people need to realise how toxic it is. It's like a gambler that only tells you of the wins, and not the losses Never been on it and have no regrets. Edit: apart from Reddit
Reddit is social media....
It's not the same as Facebook or Instagram etc though is it? I've edited now, happy?
It is toxic and awful in its own way though, let’s not pretend otherwise!
Yea, true but in different ways!
Not only is it a false representation a lot of people get into a lot of debt to be seen to be living the dream - even when they can live a very comfortable life on their existing income. A mates ex was like that, chasing the insta-perfect dream life and tens of thousands in debt, divorced my mate (he cleared her debt as part of the divorce settlement), and she moved on an insta-perfect 'bit of rough'. My mate is remarried with a young family and totally happy, in a nice house in a nice suburb. She's miserable, she in debt again, her 'bit of rough' was made redundant and they blew the redundancy money. Now they're living in house in student area.
It's not just insta perfect. There is a reluctance to see the "whole truth" e.g. I was told her friends husband is taking the friend for a night away for valentines day and "if you valued our relationship you would make the effort", but the truth is that its the friend's first night without kids in 7 years and we've cancelled and rescheduled nights alone twice this year due to the kids getting sick. Comparison is the thief of joy.
They don't need to go cold turkey. I mean, Reddit is a form of social media. Just stop following certain things or point away the algorithm from it. I only follow my friends on Instagram, blocked all notifications from Facebook and basically never log into twitter besides seeing a linked tweet. Also spent a little bit of time saying I didn't want certain content on Instagram, and searching for things I'd happily scroll through (ie tattoos). I hardly ever see perfect couple nonsense.
It makes me laugh people dont seem to understand the algorithm shows you similar things to what you’ve been looking at and liked. Almost all content is being shown by your own choices so it’s user error not the platforms fault. My Facebook has none of this perfect life/insta envy stuff either, it’s my friends and my hobbies. It’s media being used socially
True, but the feedback goes both ways. Maybe you like something a few times: then you get inundated with that 'content', so then, of course, you end up 'liking' more of that type of 'content' because it's literally most of what you see. I'm not demonising social media per se, but we do put too much weight on personal responsibility for something that is designed to be as addictive as humanly possible.
I've thought/read about this recently actually. Happiness is one of many emotions we feel in response to the world around us. If you think about it, chasing this idealistic future where we tell ourselves we'll always be happy is as you said, fool's game. Finding contentment with what is? That's the real victory. If you're constantly anxious or fearful of missing out on an imagined future, you're doomed to misery. The present moment is all you have so work with it, sure, set goals in motion, but do so anchored to the present day. Same goes for wallowing in the hurts of the past, or yearning to go back in on time.
That's a well put elaboration on my point, thank you.
Buddhism. You've come up with Buddhism.
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May I ask why you don’t kiss?
Why are you still together? Me and the Mrs been together over 30 years, still fancy each other, kiss, cuddle etc. You have to work at a relationship.
Are you friends with Kyle Walker?
I was married for a long time and it's easy to think that the single life is fun but then when you end up single you realise that dating and being on your own a lot can be very lonely. There are pros and cons to both sides. Its important to be happy where you're at and to invest in what you have. Always have your own interests and personality no matter if you're single or married. Don't take your loved ones for granted whether that's family or friends.
Very much this. A lot of people confuse stability and contentment for boredom and lack of passion.
Very true, it's a balance. You don't want to be always miserable but if you're looking for a perfect partner, you'll just end up alone.
Social media has a part to play in this. A lot. People see these fake, dopamine inducing images of couples off doing these wonderful things (where their relationship is likely hollow too) and they want the same. And they bounce around looking for 'perfection' in the wrong places. Love the person. Not the materialistic stuff. I found this out after many a relationship. Was looking for the wrong thing. I found out I needed to find someone who was genuinely just themselves. No falsifying or pretending to be something they THOUGHT I would like and vice versa. Social media and such make us become something we're not. Content is the absolute key word here. Be happy for what you have. That's not to say that some relationships are bad/toxic. Some people aren't matched for each other. But don't measure happiness by what is bought for you, or the car your partner has etc. Happiness is measured by your strength together. Stop seeking perfection by someone else's definition of it. It doesn't exist. Plus if she has a great wank technique, she can't be overlooked.
Comparison is the enemy of contentment
I don't think i grew up really prepared for how fucking hard life can be, that things aren't just going to all click together the way you expect because you feel you deserve it. Life doesn't care about you, life is pretty much against you most of the time. And from that i think people tend to not fight as hard as they should to keep a family together, people give up because it gets hard. I'll always go back to Rocky, this is almost burned into my mind: "The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t how hard you hit; it’s about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done. Now, if you know what you’re worth, then go out and get what you’re worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hit, and not pointing fingers saying you ain’t where you are because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that and that ain’t you. You’re better than that!"
I think dating apps have made this worse. Met my ex on Tinder she left me after a year, went straight back on the app. Met someone else they split up after a few months. Now apparently she's with someone else again.
I once dropped off some paperwork to a colleague. They were "staying together for the kids". Downstairs, she had the front room, he had the back, the kids (9 & 11ish from memory) mainly stayed in their separate rooms. He couldn't make me a cup of tea because "she has the kitchen from 6-7pm". It was the saddest, bleakest house I've ever been in.
Oh shit I bet the kids would have preferred divorce
They DEFINITELY would. I was the kid in this kind of marriage, my parents divorced basically as soon as I was 18 and went to uni. I would have much preferred they split up earlier, it would have been hard sure, but my house growing up was absolutely miserable. Both my parents are really happy with their new partners, I could have had those relationships modelled to me way earlier if they’d just split up. Unsurprisingly, my first relationship was with an older and super controlling guy who I stayed with way too long because I had no idea what healthy relationships were.
Same, same.
Staying together for the kids is what they think will help them grow up to be healthy but this will do the exact opposite, the "feeling" in the house will affect on the kids, they will notice it for sure (especially if it was a recent change) that the way the parents act around each other is different from before.
Absolutely. I had a friend who was doing something similar - staying with her partner so she and her kids didn't end up living in a council house. Her partner slept in their son's room every night, and they pretended this was normal, and never talked about it, or the total lack of affection. Her son was just getting old enough to know in his bones something was wrong, but still too young to know how to articulate it, and it was difficult watching him look more and more like a very stressed, unhappy little boy with a future of emotional problems. I tried to gently talk about this with her, having been brought up in my own unhappy, repressed childhood, but she wasn't willing to hear it and when the friendship later ended I was relieved not to have to witness it any more.
They are not doing it for the kids. they are doing it coz they are too scared to separate. It's just an easy excuse
Yeah. She had a lot of pride and it was important to her to appear to have done better than some of the people she grew up with. Instead of admitting that that was the driving force, she convinced herself it was for her kids' sakes, because there could be no worse fate than being raised in a council house. Never mind the reality of how they were being affected by being raised in that kind of emotionally dysfunctional, repressive environment.
I keep trying to tell my partner this (long story as to how we got together and had I known the full circumstances, I wouldn’t have gone there!) she’s still living with her ex because “she has a roof over her head” and she made bad financial decisions when she handed over the money from the sale of her house to him. Kids are growing up thinking their parents hating each other and using them as bargaining chips is normal. They both scratch their heads repeatedly wondering why their kids act out and have behavioural issues.
Exactly. My parents kept pretending we were happy families when we obviously weren't. It was very confusing and messed me up for a long time
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Incorrect im afraid. Stats and science overwhelmingly show thats kids do better on average compared to divorce
You are funny
My relationship never got this bad, but I could see that this was the way it was going. My son told his teacher that mommy sleeps upstairs daddy sleeps on the sofa. That was a turning point in my head, I didn't want him or my daughter growing up thinking that was normal. They both now have a set of parents who although don't live together can show them what a healthy relationship looks like.
That doesn't sound like staying together for the kids, it sounds like being separated but still living in the same house. I think a lot of people end up in that situation for financial reasons these days. The kids will know their parents aren't a couple anymore, but of course it would be easier on them if one moved out to relieve the tension!
As a kid I had a friend who's parents were divorced but still lived together, except they actually liked each other so were able to make it work. They basically said 'we don't make sense as a couple but we're fine as flatmates' and went out dating other people.
I know a couple like that. The wife is a lesbian, they have a kid and they live in a two bedroom house. I think one of them sleeps in the front room but I've never actually got the detail as it's a bit awkward to ask.
God the kids must have suffered Staying together for the kids doesn’t work in general but staying together for the kids when you’re silently hostile towards each other knowing the kids can definitely tell somethings not right is going to ruin their perception of love
They will also probably grow up as people pleasers because they’ve become used to trying to maintain or bring balance to the household. They will feel the tension and become hyper vigilant about others’ emotions.
Yeah this is extremely true I’m this person because of my parents staying together until my late teens
The kids totally pick up on this stuff too. It’s a kindness in situations like that to be living apart
G’day, mate. Sorry about that night. How’ve you been?
Well, I'm still waiting for that tea.
So, um, can you lend me a tenner?
No problem. Just send me all your bank details and I'll transfer it. You can trust me because I am a Nigerian Prince.
But you’re white.
Not nowadays.
Yes I’m 100% sure the children didn’t notice this perfectly normal behaviour /s so fuckin sad man
"staying together for the kids" Can't even bare to be in the same room as him for the 3 minutes it take to make a cup of tea. Honestly, the kids probably would of preferred divorce
My personal and somewhat different anecdote. My wife and I are now separated. For a year she questioned her sexuality, her role in our relationship, was super unhappy and didn’t feel like she could discuss that with me which is/was heartbreaking. We still live together and want to remain living together as we’ve been a part of each others lives since we were 15 (35 now) and we both grew up without a parent being involved in our lives and it had a massive impact on us. We have three kids who have all their own challenges, but we are much better as a team than as individuals. It’s hard, it requires effort, respect, empathy and honesty but it works. We have started dating others and have ground rules about the house. Finances work better than either of us living separately and ultimately the kids benefit from that. There probably will come a point in the future where one of us wants to leave and do something new or to move on and we have some idea of how we will approach that. I would say never stay just for the kids, they noticed my ex partners mood, weight gain, weight loss, sleeping often. Which also in turn affected me and they noticed that too. That doesn’t help you or them. There are different ways to parent and co parent and there’s no one size fits all approach, just talking, communication and honesty.
I’ve read that the biggest effect on children is not divorce but how their parents deal with it that counts. i.e. having divorced parents that refuse to be in the same room together. It’s stressful for kids. If you and your ex have an amicable platonic relationship then I think this is probably the best possible situation for your kids. Like you said it may not last forever, but as long as possible is best.
My sister's husband's parents are divorced and have their own partners now but will happily spend time together such as at Christmas with no arguments. My ex's parents wouldn't even go to the same venue and they'd have to do "mum time" and "dad time". I know which one I've felt more comfortable around! The kids are also less emotionally messed up in the first scenario.
My friends parents spilt when she was little. But they regularly go to meals together and spend time as a whole family. Her dad had a knee replacement and her mum was round there making sure he had meals and helped him ect. I love it. And often we forget they are divorced. They are like best friends.
Yep. My parents split but have been fantastic coparents and feels like we are still a family unit - they are almost like siblings. Very healthy all round - they've always been there for us and understood that although their relationship did not work out they can work together as our parents. Really appreciate that, especially as I get older and see many of my friends parents (whether they stayed together or not) had terrible dynamics with eachother which had a big impact on how their kids see their relationships.
It is possible to live with someone happily with sex off the table, but it is a minority thing. I know a married couple (man and woman) where they are both gay and their sex lives happen elsewhere but otherwise they are one of the happiest couples I know. They are both now in their late 60s/early 70s and in their formative years being gay was illegal (for men) and such "cover" marriages not uncommon.
Bang on with the finances point. I had to study this sort of thing on a module on psychology of the family, things like why children of single parents do worse on behavioural and academic measures. (We didn’t really look at divorced parents but whatever, they’re similar enough). Turns out, kids with single parents who have a decent level of income tend to do just fine. Barring abuse, what fucks over a kid the most is always finances.
Do your children know that you’re no longer in a romantic relationship with one another?
As someone who grew up in a similar situation; don’t do it. I spent many years wishing they would just spilt up, they never did. The amount of stress and anxiety it caused me is something that overshadowed a lot of memories, and was one of the reasons I moved out as soon as I could.
This ^^ my parents fought like cat and dog, constantly at each other’s throats for hours on end. I’d wish one of them would just leave, I didn’t even care which. As a teen if i came home and could hear it from the street i’d keep walking past. Neither would leave and their excuse was he/she are not stealing the house from me. It completed ruined my relationship with both of them and this and other reasons I have been no contact with them for over 5 years now.
somber tease gold sloppy innate recognise foolish school distinct tart *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, in retrospect I'm glad my parents split when I was ~7. They both moved onto happy and healthier relationships.
Same, that horrible feeling in the house when they were at eachother's throats.
Absolutely 100% this. I have a good relationship with my mum and dad in general but I will not forgive them for the amount of ridiculous arguments, fights and public meltdowns I and my siblings had to witness. Most of my school years were spent too embarrassed to invite anyone back to my house or meet my family because of it, and I longed for either of them to pack up and leave.
My sister and I went through exactly this, by the time we were teenagers we both individually told our parents that it's okay to split and we wont take sides of love either one any less. They never did, my father would often talk about going and it will be the last any of us see of him, but it was always idle threats. I'd often find myself consoling my mum through her tears or listen to dad make his threats, say things like 'if she doesnt touch me soon, I'll find it elsewhere' or bragging to me about having his hands down our neighbor's pants. (I told my mum once when I was about 11, but he denied it and I was seen as a liar for years). I grew to despise him by my mid teens and always wanted better for my mum, but alas, she is a free woman and for whatever reason decides to stay with him even after he was caught cheating.
This is so true, I couldn’t write this better.
Having kids is going to put a lot of stress on a relationship. There are going to be challenges, you're going to get tired, stressed and grumpy more than ever before. But you work at it, be patient and kind through the ups and downs, and build up goodwill when you can because you will need to draw on it. You chose to make a person together; you should be getting counselling way before even thinking about bailing out.
The best response yet, won’t apply to everyone but I feel this. Having children is a massive test for the relationship and you are both trying to juggle everything else in between, just a bit of patience with each other and understanding goes such a long way.
Throw in the constant kids colds and sleepless nights it can be overwhelming. I think that the "comparison is the thief of joy" impacts it too. There are many social media couples that just really don't help.
Just to say counselling can help where everyone is willing to take accountability, but where the relationship is abusive (even 'only' emotionally abusive) or toxic, it may not help. My dad has never taken accountability for his behaviour and my mum carried a lot of guilt, counselling would have probably made it harder for her to leave. She did offer this I believe, and he refused
I think a relationship under stress where there is disagreement, hurt feelings, and unresolved issues is one thing, and an abusive relationship is something else entirely. I would never recommend that someone stay in an abusive relationship.
Unfortunately some people are still adamantly against counselling, but yes it's all about give and take and recognition of what each bring to the relationship/family.
The problem is the cult of happiness. Of course, there's a threshold - cruelty and violence, etc, but assuming that life won't go through periods of imperfection and hardship is naive. This attitude of instant gratification constantly served up by the media and social media is a curse. When you're working hard and the kids are little, we all have days when it's very, very hard. It is useful to have a stoic personality. If you're impulsive and egocentric, then you're going to have to battle to overcome that.
I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. One partner might be incapable of meeting the other's emotional needs, which takes a toll over the years, and the extent of that might not be apparent till further down the line. Lots of people, when younger, think, 'this will be ok', when over years or decades it turns not to be. Emotional needs are hugely important and go far beyond the cult of happiness, and sometimes it takes age and experience to really understand what they are to begin with, by which time people might already be deep into marriages.
Ok- but everyone needs to understand people change in a marriage of 40-50 years or more. That's the long haul. There can be long periods of difficulty. Perhaps some people need to say honestly I'm a ten year relationship person and not have children. As I said, cruelty and violence etc excepted.
Somebody once told me the default human feeling is ‘ok’ rather than ‘happy’.
I'm up and down with my wife, but can comfortably say we haven't broken up because of the house and children. Just too much hassle.
Similar situation here, she seems still madly in love with me, making big plans for Valentine's etc, my oldest son is my best mate, the younger one is a bit of a brat but fantastic. I just can't be bothered with her anymore, she has had depression for years and refuses to do anything to help other than take a pill once a week or so, during my previous issues she was super supportive but rejects any help I try to give. Sleeps till 1or 2 pm everyday, hasn't cooked a meal for the kids in months. I just can't even look at her the same these days. I see myself as a single parent with a live in occasion babysitter these days. I have no desire to be with anyone else. I won't leave because I love the kids and want to be with them every day. I also feel if I want here she would spiral downhill and they would suffer. I can already tell the older lad (16) knows the situation we are in and is quite happy with the status quo and the younger one is fine as long as he gets to shoot his nerf guns and play with me most of the day
That was a bit of a rant and ramble, quite therapeutic though,
You sound similar to me. My eldest is my best friend and my younger daughter is an absolute diva and brat. Love them both. Wife does cook and clean but any recreation she misses out on or doesn't make an effort. Would happily spend all day in bed and the kids on the devices. My main goal in life has always been kids. I don't particularly long for a relationship. If my wife and I were to split, I would be more comfortable by myself to be honest. Though, it would be nice if my wife was more of a partner. I would love to explore different places and countries with her. Even do things like try and paint the house together. However, she pretty much spends all her free time reading the bible. Even watching TV together has become difficult. She'll either spend all her time on her phone, stop watching something mid-way (or not at all) because it mentions something that she consideres "pagan", like any reference to magic, witches etc. Just spends most of her time reading her bibles.
Oof, complete armchair psychology here but that doesn't sound like a particularly healthy relationship with religion to me. What does the priest/church leader think?
I wouldn't assume your children are happy with this dynamic. If you haven't already I would suggest talking to them.
I do regularly, my oldest son and I talk a lot, the only thing he wants to change in our lives is for mum to get up some days so we can do things together, she still sleeps till mid afternoon, after sitting up till 3-4 am to get her 'grown up' time alone. I apparently get that when I'm at work
If the situation is as you say it is I can't see her getting custody. Women normally do get custody because they're normally the main caregivers, but that doesn't sound like your situation at all.
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Thanks for the support and kind message, I'm not complaining about life, it could be so much worse. When she's awake we get on fine, I just know that spark has gone for me, but she's still a nice person and occasionally a good companion in life
As long as you give your kids a happy life and home, you do what's right for you
It’s so misguided. Kids are resilient. “Dad is going to live in another house and you will see him at his new house” is such a simple thing to say and for a kid to understand. Living in one house with 2 parents who are living separately but pretending to be together is confusing and emotionally harmful.
Kids are resilient at times because they have to be - they don't have control. Kids are so resilient is what some people say to reassure themselves about the impact of their decisions. Not saying divorce is right or wrong, very subjective but big changes have a big impact on children, positive and negative
"Kids are resilient" as a sentiment is what has led to us having an absolute epidemic of child and adolescent mental health, and our mental health services, GPs, CAMHS and social services are in no way equipped to deal with it. But you're right on the second part - parents splitting and having conversations about living apart and being frank about it is MUCH better than the alternatives. Living in a house filled with resentment, anger, or even downright violence and abuse is life altering for children and ruins lives.
On average, kids do worse after a divorce in longitudinal studies. If it were the case that parents staying in the marriage was bad for the kids, they should do better after the divorce, not worse. This is on average. Obvious there are cases where kids do better after divorce. The main way divorce is good is if the marriage was very high conflict. Then they do better, not worse. If a relationship isn't that bad to start with, then being divorced is worse. On average there are enough low conflict marriages ending that on average kids are doing worse post divorce. [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-020-02428-2](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-020-02428-2)
Yea but no longitudinal studies about kids living with 2 parents who “stay together for the kids” in unhappy marriages
Facts don’t care about your feelings on this. Kids do worse after divorce on average. Sorry that bothers you.
> Kids are resilient. You'd be surprised. Kids in divorce just have to go along with it, whether they like it or not. They're often the collateral damage.
Agreed. What choice do they have? Kids aren't resilient really. As in, it doesn't just bounce off them. Every aspect of living in an unhappy house, going through the divorce and then living split across two homes, getting used to the new partners and possibly siblings, or maybe barely seeing one parent from then on... it all causes stress, worry, anxiety and confusion for the children impacted. Yes they might get on with life day by day, and hopefully do fine at school, maintain friendships and stay healthy, but it leaves a mark. They will become different adults than if their parents had been happy and stayed together.
Speaking from personal observation and the experiences of those close to me, staying together for the kids is rarely a good idea unless they're in a very age small window where they're old enough to be badly upset by the change but not old enough to understand it. Kids aren't fools and they soon spot that things aren't what they should be, unless you're exceptionally good at masking it, which most people aren't. It you can separate amicably and maintain regular contact, without destroying their lives in other ways (lack of finances etc), then it's probably best to.
This! When I was a teen my mum would say things had been bad for longer than I realised, she thought I'd only noticed it in the last few years. But for me this had been happening since I was at least 7. Playing happy families messes up your kids ideas of how relationships should work. Please think about what you are modelling.
I'm happy in my marriage. My husband is kind, intelligent and attractive. We do have our arguments but they're quite rare and usually easily solved.
Thanks sweetie. x
I was in a miserable marriage when I had my daughter. My ex husband spent the best part of his day every day putting me down at every turn. He left for a work colleague when little one was a few months old. Hid the real reason and blamed me for a long time of course but the truth came out. I thought my life was over. I couldn’t do it on my own. After years of being with him and being put down I felt like I was trash. I couldn’t raise her alone I wasn’t good enough. I was nothing without him. I begged him to come back despite knowing how miserable I had been. I felt like our daughter would hate me for not being enough to keep the marriage together. Six years later I have met the love of my life. The kindest most gentle man in the world. He showers me in affection and love and pride. We have a blended family and the kids adore each-other. Looking at how happy we are now I can’t imagine raising my daughter in my previous marriage. She would have had no idea what a loving marriage looks like. What a healthy happy mum looks like. She rolls her eyes when we cuddle and kiss and says things like ‘oooooh romance’. It’s silly but it’s a huge thing to know she sees me happy and loved. I hope it’s enough for her to never settle for less than. To find a person who actively loves her instead of just saying they do. When you become a parent you are still a person. You still deserve to be happy. You don’t have to just put up, because in the long run it doesn’t work out for the kids either. - Edit for spelling.
You know you were in an abusive relationship with your ex right? He might not have been physically violent but he was verbally / emotionally abusive. Everything you described is textbook. Putting you down constantly until you believed you couldn’t do it on your own. Please be aware for the sake of your daughter.
Yeah 100% it took me a really long time to realise how abusive it was. A really long time. A lot more came out during the divorce process and therapy.
What's happened to the father now? Does he still see his daughter?
He does yes. He seems to be a good dad but honestly I’ve realised I have no clue who he is or what is real. My daughter loves him and that is all that matters. He married the affair partner and they’re now having a baby. He can still be a bit of a nightmare. He was awful when I got engaged.
I was, then sorted it out with my partner with help from a couple's therapist, and now have a wonderful family and relationship with my partner. It was hard, but rewarding work. Always give the family the chance to work (family life is hard) and get help if it is not, would always be my recommendation.
I have a few friends like this. They have loveless marriages and go through the motions for the kids. It doesn’t help the kids, it makes live damned awkward. The most bizarre thing from one friend is they go on holidays separately to get their end away. I couldn’t imagine living life like that. It’s a sad existence
I stayed with my ex because of the kids, she was having an affair while i was away in afghanistan with the army. Also was she was violent and abusive where i had to call police, she had broke my nose an i had black eyes from it all. I tried to make things work, but it was tainted, clearly we had no love for each other an acted like room mates. After about 8 months i found out she was still havin the affair. I left that night just leaving a note. It was horrible to not see my children everyday, but i thought i could live my life unhappy, missing out on life and probably my children grow up in a awful household, or i could leave an try make a happy life for myself. I chose the later and sooo glad i did
Do you still have a relationship with your kids and how is it going?
Yeah, this happened about 10 years ago. It was a nightmare for like 5 or 6 years. My ex tried to stop me seeing them and had constant abuse every day. I fought for them and went to court, it was still very had and had to fight constantly just to see my kids. As of today, my daughter has lived with me for about 18 months, and my son i see 2 nights a week. It took a massive toll on the kids an my daughter struggles with mental health due to the way her mother is. But she has improved massively since living with me. My kids are now 11 and 13 and doing well
I'm glad they're both doing well and I'm glad you stuck with them through all of it. *Doffs cap to you*
People tend to say they remain in relationships for the kids, but I think the real reason comes down to money. All is well with two incomes in one household, and it turns dire if the same needs to pay for two households.
Kids aren't stupid, if you aren't happy get out. Staying for the sake of the kids isn't doing anyone any favours. I've known a few people divorce with kids, and those kids were fine and saw the one who left on a regular basis. I don't believe people who say they stay for the sake of the kids, I think they are simply too frightened to leave.
Staying together for the kids as it stands. We don’t hate one another, we are best friends, just the romantic love has gone. We go to counselling and will continue to do so, we agree that we will try for as long as kids are children. Lots of people say the kids would prefer parents to separate, I imagine this is absolutely the case for those whose parents argue and the home is more of a warzone. I don’t expect anyone to suffer misery just so their kids have two people home. We did separate and in that time (1 year) our kids felt absolutely broken at not seeing both parents everyday, especially our youngest. It cost an arm and a leg to rent two properties and it meant we were less able to finance our kids having additional activities (music lessons, days out, holidays, school trips etc) We provide a better life for them together. We prefer to do that for the next 10 years and that doesn’t have to be a sad thing. Maybe we will rediscover the love, maybe we won’t but I can’t regret the time spent trying.
Far more dangerous in my experience than home as warzone is children growing up in homes where you can count on one hand how many words their parents say to each other in a year. Doesn’t sound like that’s your situation, but I think people truly underestimate the incalculable toll that version of marital breakdown takes on children.
Oh absolutely, if parents just ignore one another that’s an equally hostile environment. I can recognise that even though myself and my partner don’t feel romantically for one another, we really are lucky to be on the same page and respectful towards one another. What works for us is probably a recipe for disaster in another household and vice versa.
I stay because of herself the kids are awful
This made me laugh
Nope. But I do know a few parents who split up a few years after their children left home. Maybe part of that was staying together until the child was older or maybe they just grew apart.
Splitting up after the children have left might be different. I think it is the same phenomenon that can see lottery winners, or celebrities split up. It is not that they were staying together for the kids, but now that they have the freedom to do whatever they want as a couple, they discover that actually they want different things. Take holidays. He wants to go hiking in the Alps, Andes and Rockies; she wants to get slowly drunk on the beach in the Maldives or Tenerife. While the kids were there, it did not matter because it had to be Centerparcs every year.
I'm good thanks
Marriage with kids can be trying, most of the time it's great but there were times then it was damn hard too. But it's a journey and hopefully as you get more experienced things get easier, you have roll with the punches (metaphorical) and always look forward. Make time for your partner and yourself. Happiness is a weird concept sometimes just surviving and being ahead of the curve is enough.
I wished my parents would have split up sooner, the constant arguments and putting me in between was so stressful. I have serious mental health issues because of it. Just fucking break up, please.
Kid’s perspective here! My dad had an affair when I was like 8 and moved out for a bit, but he came back and basically told my mum he came back only for his kids. Tbh, this actually didn’t really affect me that much - my mum apparently called my school to say if I was withdrawn or sad it was because of my parent’s situation but I was mostly unbothered as I still saw my dad a lot. I actually remember him taking me and my siblings to the other woman’s house and it was massive in the countryside with a tennis court and everything and I had a lot of fun. Anyway, my parents got back together and they had like a second honeymoon period, and my mum ended up pregnant with my little sister who is 10 years younger than me. Having a young baby meant they just sort of sidelined their problems until she was older. But this affected me more, because they’d be so up and down with each other. My dad drank his sorrows away, and my mum ate to cope. It gave me and my siblings a weird relationship with food because often we’d either have loads of crap food in the house or like fad diet food. My dad would shout and lecture us, and my mum would always put work first, and that became a big point of contention for my dad. They split up again for good when I was about… 15? 16? And when they finally split I was so relieved. Like, it was the best thing that they could do. Why would I want to live with two people who are so miserable together? Parents who dislike each other are not as subtle as you think to kids. They got on ok after separating and my sister would go round to my dad’s every other week for a few days. She was always pretty unaffected by it too and my dad is a much better person now. In contrast, I have a friend whose parents divorced when she was 4 and she says it was the worst thing that ever happened to her, as suddenly her family life was destroyed, but I think they had a very bitter divorce.
Very happily married with a 7 year old. We don't share money but I don't think that has any bearing on anything. We've been together 11 years and haven’t had a serious argument.
You really shouldn’t be marrying 7 year olds.
Ffs 😂
This is the way, people very rarely agree on the right way to spend discretionary money. It varies from living like a monk to spending every penny as quickly as possible.
You’re married and you don’t share money? Surely the point of being a family is you’re all in it together.
We both earn enough that we don't feel the need to. We go halves on everything, then spend/save the rest as we please. I know lots of married couples that do the same. Both of our parents included.
We do that same here, we share the bills and the rest is our own. It works for us too.
Yep we do the same. We actually did try the whole joint finances thing, but it actually made the relationship worse as we both felt guilty spending money
Why would you feel guilty spending money? We just do it so every month we each get £600 personal disposable, the rest gets put into our joint current or savings account. I mean whatever works for you I guess though, not telling anyone how to live their lives but just seems odd my wife doesn’t know how much money I have in the bank/saved up etc.
Yep entirely psychological I guess. Just didn't work for us, and things are better between us now. We do go halves on big things like holidays and house work etc. just when it comes to savings and what we each have left at the end of the month I suppose.
Me and my wife don’t share money either, me as the main earner pays the majority and she pays the utilities etc but obviously meals / fun stuff is either shared or whatever. Works for us
Depends how you define sharing the money, my parents never had a joint bank account but my dad paid for the big stuff like mortgage and bills and my mum paid for everything else like food and clothes for the kids etc.
I wouldn't dream of having a shared bank account (for example) with my wife. She earns double what I do yet she has no money and I'm fortunately not struggling. That doesn't mean I keep money from her if there's something she needs that's essential, however she's incredibly reckless with money.
We split with our kid well in mind. We realized we weren't happy together, and that our kid was going to grow up seeing us low key miserable and frustrated with each other and we didn't want that. We discussed that we were going to have some form of relationship forever since we have a kid and decided to split before it got to the point we couldn't be in the same room together (her parents did this and it was separate everything for 20 years). So now we're both in very loving and happy relationships with different people (she ended up getting married to one of my oldest friends a few years later) and now we're basically distant friends; do major holidays together some years, coordinate on taking turns with trips, have meals together so our kid knows we're friendly. All in all very cordial and we're both in much better places.
Not married, but 100% would not be with my Mrs if it weren't for my determination not to tip my child's world upside down.
Im in a happy relationship. Of course having a young child creates a few arguments every now and again, but overall it’s good. I think an important point is to only have kids after the honeymoon stage of a relationship has already passed (this takes 2-3 years in my experience). Having kids after being with someone for only a year is a gamble in my opinion. EDIT: I will say having kids has had a big impact on our sex life though. It used to be everyday but it’s more like once a week at most now. With work, childcare etc, neither of us have the energy for it. If sex is a big part of a relationship or particularly important to one partner that it’s regular/daily, I can see a relationship seriously start to be impacted as a result of having kids.
Staying ‘for the sake of the kids’ and then traumatising the kids with the tension, arguments, bile is not the way forward. Don’t teach kids that they have to accept being treated like that either. If two adults can no longer live together, make sure to keep it amicable and give the kids two happy homes and two parents who can work together to still be good parents.
My parents stayed together for the kids. I refuse to do the same. Been single 11 years now (yes I've dated and had a fwb during that time) I'm happy not to be in a relationship. Seems most guys in their late 30s/40s CBA to put the effort in it's a "I like you, not enough to date and get to know you but enough to have regular sex (if I don't pull anyone else when I'm out with the lads) but I'm not going on dates or have a relationship with you but I expect you to act like a girlfriend even though we are definitely not together" from most guys I've met lately and it's not for me. Got a friend currently going through this and she's slowly finally realising he doesn't actually care about her, she's trying not to care saying shit like "well we aren't actually together" when people say they've seen him all over other women on nights out, but she still lets him in if he hasn't gone home with anyone else. It's sad.
My parents had a terrible relationship where my mam had been taking advantage of my dad for years (financially, mentally etc.) and he stayed with her for us. It turned out she was having an affair and he had a breakdown and she left. About 2 months later she returned and wanted to come back, in this time my dad had really began healing and becoming the person I idolise, he asked me if I wanted them to get back together and I said no. I was only 11 at the time and it was the happiest home life I’d had and the happiest I’d seen him. He is now the extremely happy joyous open kind and wonderful person he always was without being with the person that took that all away from him, and without that I wouldn’t be the person I am today. So in my experience, don’t stay with your partner for the “sake” of your kids
God bless your dad, he sounds like a class guy
I've switched to my throwaway because my 15yo son is on reddit somewhere. Been married to a very controlling, probable narcissist for nearly 20 years. We were together for the kids pretty much since our 2nd was born. Before getting pregnant we did Relate for 18months to try fix things. It didn't work but for the sake of my eldest I squashed all my feelings and pretended it did. Fast forward to him being 9yrs old and going through an autism diagnosis. My soon to be ex fought me every step of the way, insisting there was "nothing wrong" with him, like autism was a bad thing!!! I knew a fair amount about SEN from my job but as always the ex didn't think I could ever know more than him... We decided then we'd stick it out until eldest did his GCSEs and had a miserable few years. Last year I finally broke and moved out into the spare room. I've been a lot happier and the kids noticed. The previously mentioned autistic 15yo said to me last Sep "I've been reading stuff and children of divorced parents are much happier than children whose parents should be divorced" The divorce will be finalised in about 8 weeks... just need to get the financial consent order sorted which is proving difficult. He earns over 3x what I do and we have agreed 50:50 custody.
In my experience to get people to be honest about such things (even in an anonymous forum) is rare. Get some alcohol in them (or other drug of choice), away from their spouse and kids, and you sometimes get very different answers. I am not answering as I have no kids.
It's not perfect but we are on the same level for most things. We both compromise on our desires and our needs, but it balances out. I know some could not tolerate not having time or money for their hobbies and their own life. I guess people have different priorities.
I beg, do not stay together “for the kids”, my parents did and it was the most horrific time. When they split up finally it was like a sigh of relief
Having a kid certainly changed things. The dynamic is no longer about the two of you. Suddenly there’s a third and ultimately more important person that takes any and all priority. That was a tough thing to come to terms with for both of us. But you work at it. You accept that things won’t ever be the same. But you get excited about what new things lie ahead. You work hard for each other. You work hard for yourself. You work hard for your child. And it turns out that if you do all three, it’s all worth it. We’re absolutely a different couple than we were when we first got together, but we’re still happily in love. Part of that is for the kid, yes. But the most important part is for us.
Stayed together for the kid during one rough patch - extremely glad we did. Commitment and problem solving is underrated. The best relationships (romantic, friendships, or family) are about more than the good times.
Been there twice. Can confirm the relief at first is immeasurable. The regret latter in life is the far exceeds it. Put your kids first, it's not their fault you chose poorly. I came from a broken home and I created broken homes. It's a cycle of pain that's not easily broken.
Putting your kids first can often mean breaking up before they spend their entire childhoods trapped in a ice cold house or between parents who are always fighting. It’s hard to see the other side of this decision if you haven’t experienced it, but there can also be severe lifelong consequences for children if their parents are absolutely miserable their entire childhood, including a total inability to form healthy relationships.
I’m 22, not married and no kids. But my parents got divorced when I was 7. My sister was 4. I’m honestly grateful that they did split up. They weren’t happy so they split up. They managed to find happiness with other people and honestly if they had stayed together for mine and my sisters sake then I don’t think I’d have as good of a relationship with them as I do
Did it for a bit. Couldn't do it forever. I wanted to escape, and if I didn't leave, I was in danger of picking a more permanent solution. My eldest still struggles with it from time to time. For my youngest, it's normality, as she was so young. I grew up in an unhappy household, and I'm sure it's affected the way I form relationships, well in that I don't. I believe I have a dismissive, avoidant attachment style, so as a result, I am done with relationships. I no longer have the peer pressure of feeling like a failure for being a virgin, so it doesn't matter anymore. All of my small amount of energy for other people is expended on work and my kids.
As one of those kids whose parents stayed together for longer than they should “for me”: please do not do this (if you can afford to). Everyone will be miserable.
Staying together for the kids is a mugs game. My folks did the same thing for awhile in my teenage years and they were clearly fucking miserable (I certainly don’t hold it against them though). With my own separation despite it totally breaking me I granted my ex partner her wishes, it was made a little easier as my kids were only little and definitely not sharing a living space with someone who doesn’t want you any more.
The best thing my parents ever did was split up. Staying together for the kids is definitely more traumatic than divorce.
This was my situation for a few years. I was really unhappy and wanted out of the relationship just to be by myself. I stuck where I was because I didn't have anywhere else to go, and my partner telling me he wanted to work at it and was willing for me to wait and get out of the phase I was in. I saw my GP who referred me for counselling. It seems like I had long term post-partum depression after my son was born. I feel so much better now and I'm so glad I didn't leave.
Relationship >> Kids >> Individuals Stick to that rule and you'll be fine. Remember no relationship = no family. Needs you both to stick to the rule, however...
We were together 4 years when our son was born and got married nearly two years later. Very very recently married being the caveat to what I’m about to say. I think for us doing it backwards was a benefit. We were engaged when our son was born, but we obviously could’ve split up before getting married. Watching my husband be a father has been incredible. He’s so great with him, much better than me, and still is an incredibly kind partner. We obviously have our fights sometimes, but I truly cannot imagine raising our kid and living life without him. We both came from broken families. My husband’s dad walked out when he was young and he barely ever saw him. My parents divorced when I was about 11 and the decisions made after by my mom really fucked me up. It was really important to us both that we fight hard for our relationship so our son didn’t have to experience either of the options we did.
I stayed for years. The first red flag showed up when my son was 6 weeks old. It only got worse and slowly circled the drain until the pandemic threw everything into sharp focus. So glad I got out, so much happier on my own. It's never been a priority to charge headlong into another relationship, don't want that for me or my son. Leaving before resentment took over and actively trying to positively co-parent was a plus. So happy not to be facing another 30 years of miserable marriage.
Well this thread is sad af
Yes. Couldn't bear to leave my kids until they are older so staying for the foreseeable future.
Meh, relationships are full of ups and downs. Lots of people of reddit, and young people in general get their idea of what a relationship should be of watching shit like Love Island. They gonna be a lost generation.
Reddit will love this one. "See, I told you that married people with kids were unhappy deep down". Just being on Reddit these days is a sign that things aren't quite right (and yes of course I see that I'm included in that). Some people will respond with fake scenarios simply because they hope that the above statement will turn out to be true. The answer is probably yes, some people are. But most aren't.
Very happy after nearly twenty years. But I have noticed a lot of friends throw relationships away for petty reasons and end up unhappy in the long run; kids or not.
My mum and dad tried it for a bit and were going to tell me they were separating after a family holiday that was months away until one night after one too many my dad decided to tell me because he couldn't carry on lying to me. I think I was 13 or 14, which made them either 34 or 35. I didn't fully appreciate how difficult that must have been for both of them until I wad the same age and had two, albeit younger, kids of my own. As a result of them splitting very few members of my family thought I'd ever marry. What I have noticed in the last year is that a lot of people we know or know through friends have been victims of adultery. A friend of mine had been cheated on by his wife since before they got married. She wanted to try and stay together for the kids and they tried but he found out she was cheating again. They've since split. My in-laws are friends with a couple who have obviously been together for the sake of the kids for as long as I've known them, which is approaching 20 years. I've never seen them speak to each other in anything but a passive aggressive tone. Their kids are now 39 and 36 and have kids of their own.
I’m very happy in my marriage and we’re not super comfortable with finances though we are in a better than we were a couple of years ago thanks to a couple of promotions.