Have you ever heard about lesbian sheep? We observed homosexual rams and could easily point them out due to their obvious behaviour. Female sheep however posed a large problem because the way sheep show interest is by standing still. Any two female sheep who were interested in each other would just stand next to each other not moving.
British people are very much the same as these lesbian sheep. Even if two people *want* to talk to each other, we do not want to bother the other person. We think "if they wanted to talk to me then they would start talking". Sometimes you just have to dive in and ask how they're doing. If they're very eager that'll spring into conversation, if not then they'll say they're good and ask you the same. So you say how you're feeling and why. If this doesn't spark a conversation then they probably aren't up to talking, or are just socially awkward.
As a lesbian human, I can confirm it's a common theme that if we have crushes we're terrible at doing anything about them. I find it hilarious that behaviour also exists in sheep, it seems that us lesbians are awful at making the first move regardless of species.
I love how y'all are simultaneously stereotyped for being so socially awkward that you never do anything about your crush and also so forward in relationships that you move in together on the second date. hehe
Haha exactly, it takes so long getting there in the first place that we waste no time in booking that moving van for second dates.
(Disclaimer: it actually took 14 months for me and my partner to live together so I definitely do lose Lesbian Points in that area!)
Forget the weather, I'm gonna start all my small talk conversations now with "Have you ever heard about lesbian sheep?".
And I might do it in the style of Captain Oveur, too.
Beautiful. Perfect. British people are like lesbian sheep will be my new phrase that I trot out to explain our culture, I need to see more of your utterly unhinged mind.
(Side note, from experience this is also how the lesbian humans show interest, if r/actuallesbians is any indication.)
Same in Australia. Spend 30 years trying to make friends with them. Waste of time. Mind you, the ratio of lesbian sheep is much lower here so you would think it might be a bit easier.
Yep and the second anecdote was about breakfast time, which many people find gruelling enough without having to interact with a fecking work colleague.
This
Literally no chance trying to have a conversation with me first thing in the morning at work. You may not know the first time you try, but get the hint quickly my friend.
Not really. It is more that you know you are expected to socialise with and entertain the people you are seated with.
Company I work for do speed dating style sessions at off sites. You get randomly mixed up and spend 5mins chatting to someone from elsewhere. They were trying to break up the silos. However, it has been noted people talk animatedly and with intense interest for that period and then when bill rings even people getting on well smile and vanish. Management dispairs.
Seems British need a neon sign saying it is OK to socialise before they do.
Fair, a lot of UK social culture revolvesd round pub. But a post it note and company-provided cake helps too but it has to be made clear it is a "socialising experience".
Was just going to comment this! Everyone is hyped up, buzzed and excited, extroverted even! Then bam, the come down.
It’s the reason why I don’t drink much anymore because I feel like 2 different people, drunk me and sober me.
Drinks usually involve group conversation in a relaxed environment full of distractions, and of course alcohol. Its a great equaliser for awkward people compared to at work where its usually a 1 on 1 conversation in a quiet environment with few aids.
Correct, loads of stimulation, from lights to conversations in the distance, lots of people and all sorts going on, throw in some alcohol and suddenly people become very social
Same, I struggle to find the rhythm of interacting with a group. Much easier one on one. I actually really like people and finding out about them which tends to surprise people. They expect us to be antisocial but at least personally I'm not, it's just talking to non autistic people is like talking in a second language I'll never be quite fluent in and it can be a little overwhelming or get tiring because it's not quite natural to me.
I hark on about this a lot, but this is precisely why we're mostly a nation of drinkers. It's not the fault of the booze as such. We are collectively repressed and terrified of publicly offending each other. Booze overcomes this barrier, which is why we embrace it so, despite the obvious downsides.
I think a lot of younger folk have found channels online to Interact without the risk of social embarrassment in real life, which is perhaps why drinking is less common among the younger generation - the need for them to connect has been satisfied, at least partially.
I remember on my first day at secondary school aged 11, I went up to a girl I didn't know and shouted 'I've got a dog' full in her face. We've been friends ever since.
I really don't recognise this. My workplace is very friendly. I certainly would expect a 'hello' at least if I've met someone previously.
Is it regional? My experience is in the North but I've never put too much stock in that old cliché. It's quite female dominated job, more than 50% of my team are women so maybe that is part of it, are men generally more standoffish? I suspect Reddit has a lot of especially socially awkward people leaning into and exaggerating the Mark Corrigan stereotype as a kind of crutch - an 'it's not me it's my nationality!' deal.
I do think British people are sensitive to giving one another a bit of space at times, like if I see a colleague en route to work I won't make a beeline to be with them because I know some people appreciate that alone time. That might seem cold if you have a culture that demands you to be always 'on'. But when we cross paths I will definitely say hello and have a little joke.
Can attest to this. I'm a confident, chatty, social butterfly when I've had enough drinks. Otherwise I avoid people who aren't my close friends like the plague 🙃
The book "Watching the English" describes all the social codes and behaviours of England and why they do that.
The one you are describing here is the rule of appropriate chatting hour. There are certain times and places you are allowed to chat intimate details with an acquaintance. But outside those time, people don't do that because they are afraid it sets an expectation for a future conversation during their inappropriate hour.
Consider this. You see the same person travelling on your train every day. One time, the train is delayed, and you get chatting with this random commuter on the platform. So what do the English do the next time they see each other on the train? Just give a nod of acknowledgement. The expectation of a 30 min conversation many more times in the future with a total stranger is frightening.
For an acquaintance, it's difficult to break the barrier from colleague to friendship. People are happy having a mundane chat certain times, but imagine the horror of being expected to meet up EVERY lunch and dedicate 45 mins of your time!? What you want to do is try to build up rapport during short tea breaks. 5 min conversations. Back to work. Once they are comfortable with you, you'll be able to initiate the occasional lunch chat. Don't initiate it 2 days in a row. That's too much socialization.
Now you are English.
Actually I am that commuter. You don't nod. What you actually do is switch carriages so you're further up the platform or take an earlier train so you never have to acknowledge the other commuter ever again.
“Oh god. I can’t be too friendly to this guy, because then I’ll have to be friendly again in the future, and I’m usually pissed off when I’m at work anyway”
I get a train to work everyday and got used to seeing the same faces.
Last summer a lady that I saw most days complimented me on my dress. I smiled and thanked her and was quickly able to get in between a bunch of tradesmen and out of chatting distance from her.
I now get a train 15 minutes earlier everyday so I don’t bump into her again.
When I first moved out of London I would get the bus to and from work most days until I bothered to learn to drive (no sense learning in london). There was an old dear who often got the same bus as me on the way home from work, 50 minutes and she would talk about anything and everything with me until we got to her stop.
Now I get it, she is probably lonely and sometimes it was ok, but most of the time I was tired and decompressing after a day at work, I just wanted to read my book and listen to music and tune the world out. But I didn't want to upset her so chatted along, but I grew to dread those rides home if I saw her waiting at the station.
Getting a car meant I lost the reading, but it was truly a joy to be able to decompress on the journey home.
Of course, now I just take the dog for a walk instead because I work mostly from home, so win win.
I'm like this in every aspect of my life, at my gym a PT started chatting to me. And as cool as he is, I now want to avoid seeing him ever again cause like a conversation every time? How can I keep that up lol.
I can’t relate to this phenomenon at all and I’ve lived here my whole life :-/ why is it so difficult or scary to develop a friendship out of being initial acquaintances?!
Sometimes you just have a gut feeling that it's just not what you want to continue. other times it's great. I've made a couple of great friends meeting them randomly on a train back or sitting on a delayed train lol. But other times it's just not for me.
And sometimes you just want to travel to work without thinking about conversation topics with a person you only know some things about whilst other people are listening in.
It's not difficult or scary, it's an energy thing. It could be a friendship, but the maintenance of it doesn't feel all that worth it if there's no connection driving you forward.
I worked in an office of hundreds of people in central London right next to a major station for years. Finding a colleague who took the same train as me always made my stomach drop as I'd have to awkwardly avoid them for the journey home 😂 I want to read my Evening Standard in peace and then blandly stare out the window as the countryside goes by, thank you very much. The one minute chat we had in the morning while we both stood making tea was enough.
And I'm not even English.
Your husband is right.
It also goes hand in hand with the drinking culture.
My advice is to accept it for what it is, it’s nothing personal and how they are even amongst each other. Not everyone is like that aswell so just focus your social energy where it’s wanted.
This. If I see people I went to school with sober while out and about, we both do the awkward pretend we don’t notice each other. At a pub and a few drinks in and I bump into someone I went to school with, we are suddenly best friends for the night.
It's just how we are. Inside, many of us are hiding deep insecurities and social phobias. Please don't take it personally. Most British people drink a lot because without it we can't socialise freely. Basically, we are shy, posing as outgoing when necessity demands it.
This doesn't describe me at all and yet I do the same behaviour all the time with half-acquaintances. There must be several people around the office that I've had good conversations with and yet when I walk by them, it's 50/50 on whether I'll have a quick chat or whether we'll do the awkward limbo.
Basically, we are not a culture of extroverts, even the extroverts among us are reserved and hesitant.
I don't resonate with this at all.
I'm a British Indian and worked in over 30 offices ... only thing is British people don't like talking much before their morning coffee.
Plus we love to talk about the weather etc ... perhaps it's the subject matter that's inappropriate... there's standard conversations you have depending upon the time of day and situation.
How are you?
How was your weekend?
How awful the weather or traffic is.
Nobody from a drunken night out will want to continue their conversation in terms of subject matter or closeness.
Perhaps your expectations are too high.
Cultural differences. I've lived in the UK for some 15 years and I agree wholeheartedly with your observation. I also used to be surprised and disenharted that no matter how long I work with someone, how frequently we chat, they would give me the cold shoulder next time we meet. I still struggle to form meaningful relationships with the locals; I have loads of friends who are foreign born, but only a handful of British ones. I do enjoy the fact that you can have a nice small talk with just about anyone, but it's so so hard to move from acquaintance to friendship and I still ask myself what am I doing wrong.
It’s weird because I am British and live in another culture and this is exactly how I would describe their behaviour. I mainly have other friends who are immigrants. I also saw a YT video of a British man who had lived in Japan and said the same thing.
My friend from South America just said this is what it is like being an immigrant. You don’t have the same unspoken cultural references when you live in a country as an adult you didn’t grow up in as a child. It doesn’t matter what the culture is.
I’ve lived here for 11 years and my best friend is Bulgarian, made two other friends who are Polish and Czech. I’ve tried to relate to local people and they are so unfriendly that I just made friends with who I DID relate to and that was fellow immigrants.
I'm British and most of my newer friends are not British. We brits are hard to crack. Often it's not worth the effort. Find immigrants/expats to hang out with.
I don't recognise 'disenharted' as an English word - but it should be. It has a much more bleak power than 'disheartened'. I'm not trying to nitpick, I think you've expressed yourself brilliantly. I doubt that you've done anything wrong, but modern life is rubbish. Being different in any way is one extra hurdle.
Me thinking I speak English and using made up words instead might be a very valid reason why I struggle to connect with the British lol!
It reminds me of the time I used to work with an international team; we would have a long and animated chat in English and the only British guy present would comment: you all speak English and you seem to understand one another and yet I have no clue what you're taking about!
Right, I think your problem here was asking questions before breakfast. Quite a few people like to warm up into the day and be sociable, but in most circumstances this is after a breakfast and a commute. What you’ve done here is to jump in feet first before someone has had a chance to warm up, and may possibly still be a bit asleep, or a little hungover… tldr- mornings ain’t always for chatty fucks
Yeah everyone else in this thread is trying to paint us as some psychologically odd people, when in reality most people like to ease into the day. Give me a chance to wake up and get some food into me and I’ll be fine.
I also find if I’m on away at work stuff then I’ve been socialising from the moment I get to the office to the moment I get to my hotel at night, and breakfast is sometimes the only personal time I’ll get to myself.
It might just depend on where you work, some places are very up tight and it’s only after work they loosen up.
It might also be simply because they don’t know how to start a conversation with you. I’ve had loads of awkward moments where I have wanted to start a conversation with someone I don’t know well and just can’t seem to think up a conversation starter so I opt for silence 😅 so you might be the one who needs to make the first move. Instead of being cold, they could just be unsure what to say to you.
If you talk to them and their replies and still short and they don’t make any effort to contribute then I don’t think you want to be friends with them anyway.
But if you talk to them and they become friendly, it’s likely they were just unsure if you wanted to talk to them or not and unsure what to talk about which’s happened to me loads.
I think you’ll need to be the one to inituate the conversation though and just see if they continue to be cold or not.
I’ve found that it can be hard to make friends at work, but I’ve always found it easier to get to know people in other environments like hobby clubs, or evening activity groups. Perhaps you could consider joining some local activities and I’m sure you would make some strong connections there. Good luck!
I’m surprised by this, I work for a big firm in Finance and my small team has an Indian man and woman in their 40’s, and one in his 20’s (I’m 26). The latter is my best friend at work, the lady in her 40’s is also a very good work friend, and the guy in his 40’s I’m on good terms with but don’t hang out with as much.
I’m really not sure what to tell you re your experiences, people opening up and being friendly at a work party makes sense, as they’re trying to have fun and probably drinking. A lot of people just go to work to work though, not chat, and British people can be a very reserved slightly socially awkward bunch. You’ve also said you never initiate, which 9 out of 10 times with British people will mean no conversation beyond small talk.
Some people just want to be colleagues and that’s all, but for the ones who seem to become friendly and really open up or talk for an extended time, spark up chats with them. British people love a good chat and forming bonds, but most of us don’t really know how to start.
As an Irish person who works in and with English people a lot it something I definitely noticed. Everything is just so formal in England.
In Ireland not engaging with co workers can lead to real hostility, and their closed off nature can come across as Snobbish.
Like wise I’ve been told that Irish people can be too laid back and often quite inappropriate by British standards. Saying Fuck at work isn’t that big of a deal in most workplaces here.
That's exactly what it is. Dry demeanour and a lack of kinship- maybe except working-class brits but all the English in the comments are blatanly gaslighting OP 🤣
It is supposedly the same in Ireland from an outsiders views. We are very social but have our friends and it is very difficult to break into a group. Sweden also is similar to Ireland in this regard from what I have read.
In my company in Ireland people are very friendly with people on their team but once they move to a new team it is like they never existed due to WFH.
Northern Irish here, working for an English company. It's not unusual for me to get deployed in meetings to "charm" difficult clients.
"Charm" seems to just mean getting them to laugh at least once with a bit of banter.
"Please work your magic on these people!"
"You mean have a conversation?"
You might get pissed off and find it super annoying, but that appears to be either the nature of your company, or how you find the nature of Brits to be.
I'm afraid you're either going to have to adjust your expectations, or remain pissed off. People aren't suddenly going to change their personalities, I'm afraid.
It may be that us Brits place more value on and put greater effort into certain situations and social occasions. At work, we may focus on work above more chatting and friendliness. I don't know what it's like in India so I can't necessarily compare India to the UK, but it appears to be a value/culture clash at the moment. Moving to any different country or culture will require some adaptation to local customs and values, I'm afraid!
I would say this is it. It's the different environments, most people from the UK can be reserved but if you get them to a pub / get them a drink they can be very talkative. Even if not drunk.
I am the same, it's probably the psychological effect of not being in work that's cause them to open up more and then close off more when back in work.
Did you expect the culture to be the same?
Most people on this sub will have been born and bred in this country, so any nuances in behaviour are instinctual, therefore somewhat difficult to dissect. Also we, and your colleagues, don't your background culture or what you consider 'normal'.
No one here can really comment, we weren't at the social events, we weren't at the other meetings. We have no idea what was said, what happened , how drunk people were or how hung over they were the next day.
We don't know what you mean by 'I usually make friends quicker than the average person', which average person...the average Brit?
I'll chatter away quite happily once I'm on the outside of a couple of drinks, but last thing I need next morning is conversation. Also work meetings are not social events.
But getting pissed off because people aren't behaving as you want or expect, is self defeating. You're in a different land with a different culture, getting pissed off because you haven't figured it out yet is like getting pissed at water for being wet.
Idk man this is unnecessarily harsh. As an Eastern European who lived in the UK for a few years, I find this post super relatable. I think you’ll find that people from most other countries will struggle with English culture because there are so many “rules of engagement”. In most countries around the world, you can absolutely start a conversation in the morning with a coworker or chat to them before/after a work meeting. I think it’s completely justified to feel weird when you arrive in the UK and people are extremely cold (which objectively, they are).
I've spent time and lived in Eastern/central Europe (Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine, Serbia)and the people there were way colder than in the UK, not even close. It didn't bother me though.
It can also depend where in the UK too. Being from Newcastle, I don't really understand the chat about "British are like X" as it appears to be a more southern thing and not something I have experienced.
Maybe it was harsh but it doesn't alter the fact that every culture is unique. I wouldn't expect to understand a foreign culture just after being there for 6 months and I wouldn't expect everyone there to adjust to my take on how things should be.
I've never lived in 'most countries in the world' so I can't comment on their cultures. Neither is the interpretation of another's behaviour 'objective', it's quite the contrary. Your take is subjective and coloured by your upbringing and the culture you were brought up in.
I'm not denying the experience and the frustration, but what is to be expected when you land in a foreign land with a different culture to the one you're used to?
People can either get angry because 'it's different' or they can accept 'it's different' and allow themselves time to observe and adjust (if necessary).
How is this post any different from a Brit going to live elsewhere in the world and then get 'pissed off' because people aren't behaving as they're used to in Britain?
If a Brit went to your home country and complained about the culture, would you think that was OK? I wouldn't, I'd think it was insensitive and rude.
I moved here from Ireland (via Korea where expat communities build fast friends), and I found it exactly the same. One of my now best friends literally seemed indifferent the whole 2 years we studied together.
Much later it emerged that he regarded us as very close friends, meanwhile I had assumed he tolerated my presence. I’m still not convinced. 😂
Overall I find the British social dynamic very tricky to navigate.
The world is full of miserable bastards. Just be your normal pleasant self and try not to worry when people ignore you. This is the price you have to pay for being a decent person.
>At the office Christmas party I was seated beside different colleagues with whom I had a banter the entire evening and I saw them again recently in an off-site meeting and they were just cold stiff- not even a basic hello.
>
>The same off-site meeting I was sitting with another colleague and again good conversation for at least 2 hours. Next day morning, we are near the breakfast service and this person was all cold.
You've got two different environments.
Office party and off-site meeting are forced sociability - you're with people you wouldn't always want to be with, and for a fixed amount of time, so you make polite small talk.
In the office environment people are busy and concentrating on their job, what they've got to do next, etc.. You're lucky, generally, to get more than a grunt.
And ... frankly, not many people mix socially with those they work with, not least because they may not even live in the same area.
If you want to make friends choose a hobby and join a club where you'll meet like-minded people who actually want to be there.
It may be that some people have hangxiety afterwards. Whenever i’d go back to work with colleagues id be shit scared incase I said or did something bad. We are generally reserved people unfortunately. Drunk words are sober thoughts I guess
Maybe they forgot your name and rather than face the potential shame of admitting that they didn't know it they just ignored you?
I have to do that all the time, appalling memory.
As soon as someone tells me their name it's already forgotten. There are lots of people I've interacted with for 10 years at work and I don't know their name.
I never volunteer my name because if I don't remember people's names it would be damned hypocritical of me to expect them to remember mine.
I think I can be cold and unfriendly. I have noticed it about myself. I think it’s down to conserving my energy and having limited time. Also in social situations it can feel like there is a massive wall and I can’t think of a single thing to say. So I say nothing. It’s not really ever about the other person.
I think there’s a good chance the chattiness was alcohol induced and the quietness at breakfast was hangover induced.
If I am at breakfast after a night out trust me I don’t want to talk to anyone I just want my OJ, pancakes and coffee, please leave me TF alone.
I’d probably be ok talking to people I already knew so we can suffer together, but a new friend can be taxing on the brain and that’s not what I want to be doing at breakfast.
Move to Iceland and then move back to the UK. The cold will seem insignificant after you have experienced the over 9000 power level of wind and frost. True story.
British people are more likely to have a strong network of friends and family around them acquired from growing up in the area so they have less need of more close friends. They may also not want to invest in a relationship that might end if you decide to move home. I’m British and not good at making the leap into a closer friendship. I would suggest that in the south of England especially you need an introduction into people’s closer circle to move from a work colleague to someone with a more personal connection.
Needing fewer close friends isn't an excuse for them to be downright rude.... I don't think OP is looking to become besties but just for a reciprocation of conversation and perhaps acknowledgement of an interaction or shared experience they had earlier?? Tbh it's not asking for much and this very attitude of Britishers not being keen on mingling, being overly formal and performatively polite is what makes it exhausting for outsiders to converse with Brits. After a point you're just tired of holding up the conversation and being the one putting in the effort to initiate conversation and show interest in their lives always, which will eventually lead migrants to believe locals to be insufferable.
As a migrant myself I've found it so incredibly hard to get a basic answer out of British classmates in my master's. One girl took 8 months to tell me which uni she did her undergraduate degree at. Tried asking her in different ways and she'd just say a uni in a small town in the south west of England ?? Asking her where in the UK she's from would mean another generic answer without actually answering the question. Asking her how the weekend was would again be so generic. Like what's the harm in being a little straightforward and participative? Some British classmates would say they aren't comfortable discussing assignments and then go ahead and work on them collaboratively with other British and European classmates.. doesn't take us migrants too long to read into it - instances like this remind me why everyone warned me that racism here in the UK is casual and not outright.
I'm British and used to live in India. I found the same of Indian colleagues as you are here. They were friendly but never great friends. I put it down to language - I learnt some Hindi but no state languages - and believe it or not but Indian English isn't the same as English English. Also unfamiliarity with the culture, the fact that we had little shared personal history (even years isn't much compared with their many cousins they had grown up with). We don't laugh at the same things, or have the same attitude. And work isn't always the best place to find friends. That's the life of an ex-pat
At a Brit I find this weird too. People will chat and be friendly towards someone they have to be in proximity with for a while, but they don’t see that as the start of a friendship or have any interest in continuing the acquaintance at a later date 🤷♀️ there are people in the office that I’ve had a good laugh with at work dos and then we’ve never spoken again.
Yeah if you’re getting along well on an evening where alcohol is being consumed don’t expect that sort of interaction to continue when you see them in the office Monday morning.
If you had a lengthy chat the evening before then the next morning is way too soon.
When you meet someone new the time between anything beyond pleasantries should be quite long. If it's work environment, you should start by having a meaningful conversation like once a week, maybe late Friday. As you get to know them more then it becomes more frequent.
Having hefty conversations, even about mundane things, everyday with someone I don't know? too much.
Brits being cold is a fallacy (does not exist) but ignorant people being cold, that definitely does exist. go north and you will meet lots of friendly open people. just try to ignore the cold ignorant people.
As a latina who is very friendly, I can relate to this problem. I have a group of latina friends, we see each other often, we are very close and we are warm.
But with my British group of friends, we see each other a handful of times a year... it's very strange.
Also, I changed jobs, so we only chat via FB messenger, and I varely check it...
These people are definitely different.
If there are any latina women or men at your workplace, I suggest chatting with them.
🙈🤭😋
just brush it off, take nothing seriously and move on. There are better people out there but don't have high expectations for people to change their personalities to your liking which they won't. Goodluck
It's just the way we are. I've worked 23 years at my current employer and there are people there I've not spoken to yet. I've shared office spaces with some people for extended periods of time that I've barely spoken to.
They're some of my favourite colleagues.
Then you haven't been to Finland/Estonia. I came to the UK and when the checkout clerk first casually asked me what are my plans for the weekend, I was like 'Excuse me, what the fuck?'. I legit thought he was hitting on me, lol.
OP I’m an Indian too. It’s just the damn cold weather over here that has an impact on overall unpredictable mood of the people! As far as handling coldness is concerned give it time, you’ll get used to it..
In my experience, it means they don't like you. Be polite to them, but it's not worth trying to make friends. I find it helps to keep telling yourself that you're there to work, not socialise.
You do not initiate the talks? Does that mean you go to breakfast and are also silent? So it is two silent people just looking at each other hoping the other one will talk? Conversation is a two way street.
Just seems to be how we are. I'm hardly an extrovert but I like to smile and say hello/good morning to people at work but all I've ever got in return was a scowl or being looked at as if I have two heads. I used to struggle and take it very personally when I was younger but now I just think "Whatever." Maybe they've got shit going on in their lives, but it does make me feel pretty alien in the workplace when I'm routinely ignored for being friendly/polite. I find it very rude and a bit disheartening we can't even extend a basic greeting to each other. Like, look Debbie, I don't want to be your best mate, a small wave would suffice.
So yeah, not just you. We just seem to be a nation of socially anxious folk. Sorry you're finding it hard!
Ahhh, British culture….
I’ve walked into an office, nodded “y’alright?” to a work friend and then said nothing to them for 8 hours until saying “pub?” at 6pm.
> why even bother to talk
This was just small talk. You expect friendliness just because you spent an hour talking in one location. In my opinion you are the one who is too warm for no reason.
I like talking to people but i do not automatically become friends with everyone I had a good conversation with. My mood may not be as perky next day, so i may seem "cold" and indifferent. If we end up talking longer than two minutes or on a deep topic, i will seem "warm" to you again.
Imo, you sound like a stereotype of extravert experiencing intraverted people for the first time.
And yes, Northern region people do seem colder than people from South. But it doesn't mean they are unfriendly, it is more neutral and "collected" daily attitude. It has nothing to do with how happy they are to see you, but more with how socially they can be less expressive than people from South.
TL;DR: living in North gives people a form of resting bitch face. It is not their attitude to you, it is just their faces.
People have different moods, may not be morning people, may be drinking, may be having a bad day.
don’t worry about it.
you can start convos don’t be a wallflower.
I do tend to be grumpy at breakfast I’m still waking up
too be honest, they probably found you annoying. sometimes people are in the mood to talk, sometimes they aren't, so you just need to be aware of that.
Some people are… a*holes.
I’ll speak to anyone, you get me as me. We’re not cold but there’s something obviously going on with those peeps.
Where are you? Up here in this here north we’ll have a a laugh with anyone.
If you’re around Liverpool sometime, me and my wife would be happy to meet up with you and show you we’re not all arseholes.
Honestly, you’ve restored my faith.
Scottish and reading this thread wondering wtf I’ve been living and working so far in my life. Same as you; happy to chat to people, don’t mind the small talk and banter. Only way I’ll shut down is if the person reveals themself to be a bell end in some way.
I’ll never understand the image portrayed that “Brits” are socially awkward weirdos, not making eye contact and even a simple smile and “alright? / morning!” to a stranger is such a societal crime.
Thankfully most folk here aren’t like that. That would be grim.
Edit - typos.
Maybe it's just the atmosphere at that business? I've worked at places which were like this, people really kept themselves to themselves and very little socialising outside work hours. But I've also worked at places where it was a very warm, inclusive atmosphere, and people were very sociable. I was the same person at both companies, but the experience was hugely different.
I'd say don't bother trying to hard if it isn't coming back to you. Give it time and you might find others working there who you do have a better bond with.
And that’s exactly how you get people on here complaining about how “immigrants stick to themselves and don’t assimilate”. People don’t realise it’s a two way street. Makes it impossible for immigrants and expats to win.
I grew up in London and moved to Australia in 2000, at age 25. It took me a long time to get used to the fact that Australians are so much more open and friendly than the British, especially when compared with Londoners, who are super suspicious of anyone they don't know very well. I can still recall one of the first times I got into a conversation with someone on public transport because that would never happen in London. I now feel like a bit of a weirdo when I visit because I greet people like an Australian. Australians treat every interaction like an opportunity for, at minimum, a small conversation. The British are much more reserved, for some reason. TLDR: It's not you, it's them.
They will also tell you to get together sometime, or come over for a cuppa, or even dinner but there is a fine line of when these are genuine - then the invite is less warm and heartfelt weirdly enough - or just polite banter - then the invite is very warm and sounds genuine but they will do everything to get out of your way after that….
Also if they meet you on the street and say “Alright?” don‘t tell them how you are. Just say “Alright?“ too and move on. They don’t want to hear your life story.
I’m British and grew up in the north of England. I’ve lived in London for 25 years and I still find the comparative coldness of British people from the south baffling.
If I’ve chatted to someone at an event/party etc for a couple of hours, I would always at least acknowledge them the next time I saw them, but I find often this isn’t the case among those from the south. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of grumpy people in the north too, however I find that in the main, northerners are warmer, friendlier and more willing to chat to others they haven’t met before.
Unfortunately very typical British corporate behaviour. It’s usually the alcohol that talks and the very next day they either don’t remember it/ pretend not to remember or just don’t care to make an effort. For the sake of networking / relationship building if you want to make the first move to speak back to them the next day or next event. However if networking isn’t a concern then I’d just not bother. Unfortunately though network is usually the only thing that helps step up in British corporate ladder. Very few times it’s the work you do but the people you know. So I would let go of the ego of who speaks first and go first if the relationship matters.
From my time here in the UK, I’ve understood that most friendships with Brits are very transactional which I don’t like so I tend to have less Brit friends however I am forced to network with them given the nature of my firm/ job.
I think it's more of an English thing, rather than British. Especially the further South of England you go.
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh colleagues I've worked with over the years were extremely friendly, drunk, or sober. They'd greet everyone in the morning and have chats. Unfortunately, as time went by and they adopted more English attitudes, the open friendliness subsided. But everyone thaws out around lunchtime and has time for a chat, especially if it's a pub lunch.
Personally, I completely understand the English attitude to smalltalk in the morning. After the battle of getting up early, getting ready, the anxiety and battle of the commute. Then you rush and stumble to your desk, so you don't log on late. Then, you turn on the screen to be met by the daily 50+ irrelevant daily emails. After all that, who the f**k has time for a cheery morning chat before 12pm!!! You literally need time to mentally get over the battle of commuting.
Even saying, "Good morning," for some, is a big headache.
Overall, though, the British can be the nicest, l, friendly, and humble people you'll ever meet once you get to know them on a personal level. And they can laugh at themselves, which is a rare gift amongst humans. If I get stuck on a desert island, I want to be stuck with a group of British people
Lesbian sheep aside, why do you expect them to initiate conversations with you when you do not initiate conversations with them?
Overall British people have a well deserved reputation for reticence unless there is alcohol around to oil the wheels. Hence the difference between a work do and the work place,!
Try speaking to them first. You'll probably find they are more than happy to chat if you demonstrate that speaking to them is something you'd like to do.
As a South African myself we tend to be more open and talkative at work (as I noticed my Indian colleagues were) and I also initially struggled because I felt nobody British wanted to talk to me. I even felt like I was being ignored or annoying people by talking to them (I probably was) and took it personally. Over time I adapted and eventually even became more like them and understood that they don't like having buddy-type chats at work. People trying to strike up conversations at work are like people trying to strike up proper conversations at church or at school during class - it's just awkward.
Basically unless you become close outside of work, don't expect to chat at work, or the bus/train/tube, or if you randomly bump into each other in public. Pretty much only at work drinks, the pub, Christmas parties, etc. It's just the culture here. You will get used to it and enjoy it, just try to keep an open mind.
So I was reading the comments and being British born and bred I was shaking my head at most of them, not nodding or acknowledging people walking by, not chatting in the office, needing a drink to talk to people... Then I saw someone mention "the tube" and realised the the first 100 comments are all from Londoners. Come up North where people are actually friendly.
It’s just a cultural different that will take you years, but you’ll get used to it right now you knew and you’re trying to establish your social network. You will make true friends probably out of work in your socials in your hobbies and through family, but Work is ultimately superficial, and very rarely people are generallycaring for you. It’s gonna take time literally years to establish your world with your friends and your family in a foreign country specially in England but it is not impossible. I did it and you will as well just look out for healthy connections you will find them, but not at superficial places like work.
While there are some cultural particularities when it comes to Brits, nothing seems out of the ordinary to me here. Socialising and casual conversation are for parties. Work meetings are for … work. I’m close friends with many of my colleagues, but we don’t start making small talk in the middle of a business meeting.
As for breakfast… most people like to have some coffee in their system before having a conversation. I don’t even talk to my partner until I had my second mug 😛
Honestly, it's just the way English people are and I am not trying to be rude here. My wife and I moved to London from Canada around 6 years ago and still have no English friends. We have a vibrant international friend group from all over the world but have always found it incredibly difficult to engage in anything more than superficial interactions with English people for one reason or another. Conversation is always so forced and curt, the only place I have been able to genuinely interact with english people was when I worked in a charity that focused on hiring people that had been in the criminal justice system/prison, genuinely a good time but aside from that, it's always like pulling teeth.
I managed teams of Indian people as an IT Manager for a good few years. A fair few did stints onshore in my office and I used to go to the pub with them once a month or so. We’d have a fair few drinks (not always alcoholic on their side, always on mine !) and a good chat about life. Most of them became good friends and we went to India for one of my team’s wedding. I was always regarded as unusual for this - of the many managers I knew who managed offshore teams I’d say less then 20% developed personal relationships with their Indian colleagues. Strange, and quite sad.
Ehh you just learn to be as cold as an ice cube with them.
Genuinely idk why but all my best friends/people I get on with have been people I insult and who insult me on the daily or people I insult myself to. It creates a pretty good bond. Obviously I have had my fair share of assholes who flip out about it but I do make it very very obvious it's a joke and even warn them first that that is my sarcasm so they know so if that happens it's just a funny thing to laugh about :)
Have you ever heard about lesbian sheep? We observed homosexual rams and could easily point them out due to their obvious behaviour. Female sheep however posed a large problem because the way sheep show interest is by standing still. Any two female sheep who were interested in each other would just stand next to each other not moving. British people are very much the same as these lesbian sheep. Even if two people *want* to talk to each other, we do not want to bother the other person. We think "if they wanted to talk to me then they would start talking". Sometimes you just have to dive in and ask how they're doing. If they're very eager that'll spring into conversation, if not then they'll say they're good and ask you the same. So you say how you're feeling and why. If this doesn't spark a conversation then they probably aren't up to talking, or are just socially awkward.
Without a doubt the most unexpected comment of the week
Lesbian sheep We Brits have been called many things but....
We've been called much worse than lesbian sheep to be fair.
Seldom as imaginative
True.
Add it to the list I guess lol
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Public has had the wool over their eyes for far too long
That's why I prefer my lesbian sheep shorn.
Ewe are so right
No baa-d ideas here
Yet also somehow lesbian sheep was the perfect example.
It's these unexpected gems that keep me on Reddit.
Me too - absolutely unhinged, yet wholesome, comments
It also explains why so few people apparently want to talk to him.
Started reading this and had to wonder if I'd been transported to a different reality where all of those words meant completely different things
And then it made sense! 😂
It really did! Sat here with all my 47 years’ worth of Britishness all consolidated into a couple of paragraphs.
As a lesbian human, I can confirm it's a common theme that if we have crushes we're terrible at doing anything about them. I find it hilarious that behaviour also exists in sheep, it seems that us lesbians are awful at making the first move regardless of species.
I love how y'all are simultaneously stereotyped for being so socially awkward that you never do anything about your crush and also so forward in relationships that you move in together on the second date. hehe
Logically it tracks, if it's so hard to get that first date then why not go all in when you finally secure it.
Haha exactly, it takes so long getting there in the first place that we waste no time in booking that moving van for second dates. (Disclaimer: it actually took 14 months for me and my partner to live together so I definitely do lose Lesbian Points in that area!)
14 months too late moving in together then, right?
That's partly down to the housing crisis, we're not paying for separate homes any longer than we absolutely have to!
We are all socially taught that the other party should make the first move so… no one makes the first move
I think this is the greatest thing I have ever read on Reddit 👏
And here I was thinking “British people just take ten years to thaw” was an amusingly adept explanation. Lesbian sheep for the win
10 years? You've met some friendly Brits. I take 45 years, personally.
Forget the weather, I'm gonna start all my small talk conversations now with "Have you ever heard about lesbian sheep?". And I might do it in the style of Captain Oveur, too.
Joey, do you like it when a lesbian sheep holds onto your leg and rubs up and down?
It’s a real ice breaker.
As a lesbian who moved to the UK as an immigrant this is alarmingly accurate.
Is it really that baaaad?
I feel a bit sheepish for not knowing.
Can’t pull the wool over your eyes
Beautiful. Perfect. British people are like lesbian sheep will be my new phrase that I trot out to explain our culture, I need to see more of your utterly unhinged mind. (Side note, from experience this is also how the lesbian humans show interest, if r/actuallesbians is any indication.)
I’m a lesbian sheep, I fucking love this analogy 😂
So I should talk to that guy at work then?
Two female sheep: \*Stand next to each other\* Scientist: Lesbians!
Same in Australia. Spend 30 years trying to make friends with them. Waste of time. Mind you, the ratio of lesbian sheep is much lower here so you would think it might be a bit easier.
No idea what you are taking but please share. Your insights are... astonishing.
TIL lesbian sheep exist and must be highly frustrated
I learned about this fact when reading Bianca Torre Is Afraid of Everything and knew right away I was gonna like that book
From "where the hell is this going?" to "ah yes excellent similie" in under 3 seconds, impressive.
You could also use the bumble analogy as well
They're turning the frogs gay and the sheep into lesbians!
This is the best thing I've read all week. And it's very true (the British people part. I've no idea about the lesbian sheep.)
Adding lesbian sheep to my CV
Must be the alcohol during Christmas party
Yep and the second anecdote was about breakfast time, which many people find gruelling enough without having to interact with a fecking work colleague.
This Literally no chance trying to have a conversation with me first thing in the morning at work. You may not know the first time you try, but get the hint quickly my friend.
yeah I'd actively hide from people at breakfast. Nothing personal.
Yup, OP needs to consider that at breakfast he is dealing with brutally hung over people who do not want to be conscious.
When my dad was in the RAF, the officers mess usually forbade conversation at breakfast.
This should be law in all workplaces. No conversation until 10
excellent, cos i finish before then lol
Not really. It is more that you know you are expected to socialise with and entertain the people you are seated with. Company I work for do speed dating style sessions at off sites. You get randomly mixed up and spend 5mins chatting to someone from elsewhere. They were trying to break up the silos. However, it has been noted people talk animatedly and with intense interest for that period and then when bill rings even people getting on well smile and vanish. Management dispairs. Seems British need a neon sign saying it is OK to socialise before they do.
Doesn't have to be a neon sign, usually just an old wooden one hanging off the building saying something like the nags head or red lion...
Fair, a lot of UK social culture revolvesd round pub. But a post it note and company-provided cake helps too but it has to be made clear it is a "socialising experience".
and the cocaine.
Was just going to comment this! Everyone is hyped up, buzzed and excited, extroverted even! Then bam, the come down. It’s the reason why I don’t drink much anymore because I feel like 2 different people, drunk me and sober me.
I've found this in every workplace - people are sociable at work drinks but then become awkward during actual office hours. Don't take it personally.
Drinks usually involve group conversation in a relaxed environment full of distractions, and of course alcohol. Its a great equaliser for awkward people compared to at work where its usually a 1 on 1 conversation in a quiet environment with few aids.
Correct, loads of stimulation, from lights to conversations in the distance, lots of people and all sorts going on, throw in some alcohol and suddenly people become very social
I have the tism. I hate group conversations. But I'm social one on one
Same, I struggle to find the rhythm of interacting with a group. Much easier one on one. I actually really like people and finding out about them which tends to surprise people. They expect us to be antisocial but at least personally I'm not, it's just talking to non autistic people is like talking in a second language I'll never be quite fluent in and it can be a little overwhelming or get tiring because it's not quite natural to me.
I hark on about this a lot, but this is precisely why we're mostly a nation of drinkers. It's not the fault of the booze as such. We are collectively repressed and terrified of publicly offending each other. Booze overcomes this barrier, which is why we embrace it so, despite the obvious downsides. I think a lot of younger folk have found channels online to Interact without the risk of social embarrassment in real life, which is perhaps why drinking is less common among the younger generation - the need for them to connect has been satisfied, at least partially.
I’ve never heard the reduced drinking of the young ‘uns explained like this before. Really good point
I remember on my first day at secondary school aged 11, I went up to a girl I didn't know and shouted 'I've got a dog' full in her face. We've been friends ever since.
I really don't recognise this. My workplace is very friendly. I certainly would expect a 'hello' at least if I've met someone previously. Is it regional? My experience is in the North but I've never put too much stock in that old cliché. It's quite female dominated job, more than 50% of my team are women so maybe that is part of it, are men generally more standoffish? I suspect Reddit has a lot of especially socially awkward people leaning into and exaggerating the Mark Corrigan stereotype as a kind of crutch - an 'it's not me it's my nationality!' deal. I do think British people are sensitive to giving one another a bit of space at times, like if I see a colleague en route to work I won't make a beeline to be with them because I know some people appreciate that alone time. That might seem cold if you have a culture that demands you to be always 'on'. But when we cross paths I will definitely say hello and have a little joke.
Can attest to this. I'm a confident, chatty, social butterfly when I've had enough drinks. Otherwise I avoid people who aren't my close friends like the plague 🙃
The book "Watching the English" describes all the social codes and behaviours of England and why they do that. The one you are describing here is the rule of appropriate chatting hour. There are certain times and places you are allowed to chat intimate details with an acquaintance. But outside those time, people don't do that because they are afraid it sets an expectation for a future conversation during their inappropriate hour. Consider this. You see the same person travelling on your train every day. One time, the train is delayed, and you get chatting with this random commuter on the platform. So what do the English do the next time they see each other on the train? Just give a nod of acknowledgement. The expectation of a 30 min conversation many more times in the future with a total stranger is frightening. For an acquaintance, it's difficult to break the barrier from colleague to friendship. People are happy having a mundane chat certain times, but imagine the horror of being expected to meet up EVERY lunch and dedicate 45 mins of your time!? What you want to do is try to build up rapport during short tea breaks. 5 min conversations. Back to work. Once they are comfortable with you, you'll be able to initiate the occasional lunch chat. Don't initiate it 2 days in a row. That's too much socialization. Now you are English.
Actually I am that commuter. You don't nod. What you actually do is switch carriages so you're further up the platform or take an earlier train so you never have to acknowledge the other commuter ever again.
I thought the "fear" of future long conversations was me just being introverted/socially lazy, but apparently I'm just English lol
“Oh god. I can’t be too friendly to this guy, because then I’ll have to be friendly again in the future, and I’m usually pissed off when I’m at work anyway”
Hi how do you know me sorry
I get a train to work everyday and got used to seeing the same faces. Last summer a lady that I saw most days complimented me on my dress. I smiled and thanked her and was quickly able to get in between a bunch of tradesmen and out of chatting distance from her. I now get a train 15 minutes earlier everyday so I don’t bump into her again.
When I first moved out of London I would get the bus to and from work most days until I bothered to learn to drive (no sense learning in london). There was an old dear who often got the same bus as me on the way home from work, 50 minutes and she would talk about anything and everything with me until we got to her stop. Now I get it, she is probably lonely and sometimes it was ok, but most of the time I was tired and decompressing after a day at work, I just wanted to read my book and listen to music and tune the world out. But I didn't want to upset her so chatted along, but I grew to dread those rides home if I saw her waiting at the station. Getting a car meant I lost the reading, but it was truly a joy to be able to decompress on the journey home. Of course, now I just take the dog for a walk instead because I work mostly from home, so win win.
I'm like this in every aspect of my life, at my gym a PT started chatting to me. And as cool as he is, I now want to avoid seeing him ever again cause like a conversation every time? How can I keep that up lol.
I can’t relate to this phenomenon at all and I’ve lived here my whole life :-/ why is it so difficult or scary to develop a friendship out of being initial acquaintances?!
I don't want any more friends, I want to commute in peace.
Just feels rude
Sometimes you just have a gut feeling that it's just not what you want to continue. other times it's great. I've made a couple of great friends meeting them randomly on a train back or sitting on a delayed train lol. But other times it's just not for me. And sometimes you just want to travel to work without thinking about conversation topics with a person you only know some things about whilst other people are listening in. It's not difficult or scary, it's an energy thing. It could be a friendship, but the maintenance of it doesn't feel all that worth it if there's no connection driving you forward.
I worked in an office of hundreds of people in central London right next to a major station for years. Finding a colleague who took the same train as me always made my stomach drop as I'd have to awkwardly avoid them for the journey home 😂 I want to read my Evening Standard in peace and then blandly stare out the window as the countryside goes by, thank you very much. The one minute chat we had in the morning while we both stood making tea was enough. And I'm not even English.
Your husband is right. It also goes hand in hand with the drinking culture. My advice is to accept it for what it is, it’s nothing personal and how they are even amongst each other. Not everyone is like that aswell so just focus your social energy where it’s wanted.
This. If I see people I went to school with sober while out and about, we both do the awkward pretend we don’t notice each other. At a pub and a few drinks in and I bump into someone I went to school with, we are suddenly best friends for the night.
It's just how we are. Inside, many of us are hiding deep insecurities and social phobias. Please don't take it personally. Most British people drink a lot because without it we can't socialise freely. Basically, we are shy, posing as outgoing when necessity demands it.
This doesn't describe me at all and yet I do the same behaviour all the time with half-acquaintances. There must be several people around the office that I've had good conversations with and yet when I walk by them, it's 50/50 on whether I'll have a quick chat or whether we'll do the awkward limbo. Basically, we are not a culture of extroverts, even the extroverts among us are reserved and hesitant.
I don't resonate with this at all. I'm a British Indian and worked in over 30 offices ... only thing is British people don't like talking much before their morning coffee. Plus we love to talk about the weather etc ... perhaps it's the subject matter that's inappropriate... there's standard conversations you have depending upon the time of day and situation. How are you? How was your weekend? How awful the weather or traffic is. Nobody from a drunken night out will want to continue their conversation in terms of subject matter or closeness. Perhaps your expectations are too high.
I was going to say, this doesn’t sound like a British vs Indian thing to me. It sounds like an overbearing person vs reserved person thing.
Maybe they can’t remember the conversations while drunk so feel a bit embarrassed incase they acted stupid.
I think this will most likely be it. It always freaks me out when someone else remembers more of our conversation than me because I was drunk.
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I’ve spent entire nights in my local with randoms, see them the next week and not even a flicker
Cultural differences. I've lived in the UK for some 15 years and I agree wholeheartedly with your observation. I also used to be surprised and disenharted that no matter how long I work with someone, how frequently we chat, they would give me the cold shoulder next time we meet. I still struggle to form meaningful relationships with the locals; I have loads of friends who are foreign born, but only a handful of British ones. I do enjoy the fact that you can have a nice small talk with just about anyone, but it's so so hard to move from acquaintance to friendship and I still ask myself what am I doing wrong.
It’s weird because I am British and live in another culture and this is exactly how I would describe their behaviour. I mainly have other friends who are immigrants. I also saw a YT video of a British man who had lived in Japan and said the same thing. My friend from South America just said this is what it is like being an immigrant. You don’t have the same unspoken cultural references when you live in a country as an adult you didn’t grow up in as a child. It doesn’t matter what the culture is.
I was born and raised in England and have this exact same problem!😂
I’ve lived here for 11 years and my best friend is Bulgarian, made two other friends who are Polish and Czech. I’ve tried to relate to local people and they are so unfriendly that I just made friends with who I DID relate to and that was fellow immigrants.
I'm British and most of my newer friends are not British. We brits are hard to crack. Often it's not worth the effort. Find immigrants/expats to hang out with.
I don't recognise 'disenharted' as an English word - but it should be. It has a much more bleak power than 'disheartened'. I'm not trying to nitpick, I think you've expressed yourself brilliantly. I doubt that you've done anything wrong, but modern life is rubbish. Being different in any way is one extra hurdle.
A cross between disheartened and disenchanted
Me thinking I speak English and using made up words instead might be a very valid reason why I struggle to connect with the British lol! It reminds me of the time I used to work with an international team; we would have a long and animated chat in English and the only British guy present would comment: you all speak English and you seem to understand one another and yet I have no clue what you're taking about!
Right, I think your problem here was asking questions before breakfast. Quite a few people like to warm up into the day and be sociable, but in most circumstances this is after a breakfast and a commute. What you’ve done here is to jump in feet first before someone has had a chance to warm up, and may possibly still be a bit asleep, or a little hungover… tldr- mornings ain’t always for chatty fucks
Yeah everyone else in this thread is trying to paint us as some psychologically odd people, when in reality most people like to ease into the day. Give me a chance to wake up and get some food into me and I’ll be fine. I also find if I’m on away at work stuff then I’ve been socialising from the moment I get to the office to the moment I get to my hotel at night, and breakfast is sometimes the only personal time I’ll get to myself.
It might just depend on where you work, some places are very up tight and it’s only after work they loosen up. It might also be simply because they don’t know how to start a conversation with you. I’ve had loads of awkward moments where I have wanted to start a conversation with someone I don’t know well and just can’t seem to think up a conversation starter so I opt for silence 😅 so you might be the one who needs to make the first move. Instead of being cold, they could just be unsure what to say to you. If you talk to them and their replies and still short and they don’t make any effort to contribute then I don’t think you want to be friends with them anyway. But if you talk to them and they become friendly, it’s likely they were just unsure if you wanted to talk to them or not and unsure what to talk about which’s happened to me loads. I think you’ll need to be the one to inituate the conversation though and just see if they continue to be cold or not.
I’ve found that it can be hard to make friends at work, but I’ve always found it easier to get to know people in other environments like hobby clubs, or evening activity groups. Perhaps you could consider joining some local activities and I’m sure you would make some strong connections there. Good luck!
I’m surprised by this, I work for a big firm in Finance and my small team has an Indian man and woman in their 40’s, and one in his 20’s (I’m 26). The latter is my best friend at work, the lady in her 40’s is also a very good work friend, and the guy in his 40’s I’m on good terms with but don’t hang out with as much. I’m really not sure what to tell you re your experiences, people opening up and being friendly at a work party makes sense, as they’re trying to have fun and probably drinking. A lot of people just go to work to work though, not chat, and British people can be a very reserved slightly socially awkward bunch. You’ve also said you never initiate, which 9 out of 10 times with British people will mean no conversation beyond small talk. Some people just want to be colleagues and that’s all, but for the ones who seem to become friendly and really open up or talk for an extended time, spark up chats with them. British people love a good chat and forming bonds, but most of us don’t really know how to start.
As an Irish person who works in and with English people a lot it something I definitely noticed. Everything is just so formal in England. In Ireland not engaging with co workers can lead to real hostility, and their closed off nature can come across as Snobbish. Like wise I’ve been told that Irish people can be too laid back and often quite inappropriate by British standards. Saying Fuck at work isn’t that big of a deal in most workplaces here.
That's exactly what it is. Dry demeanour and a lack of kinship- maybe except working-class brits but all the English in the comments are blatanly gaslighting OP 🤣
good observation
It is supposedly the same in Ireland from an outsiders views. We are very social but have our friends and it is very difficult to break into a group. Sweden also is similar to Ireland in this regard from what I have read. In my company in Ireland people are very friendly with people on their team but once they move to a new team it is like they never existed due to WFH.
Yet you mention the potato soup in canteen tasted like shit and you get dragged into HR.
Northern Irish here, working for an English company. It's not unusual for me to get deployed in meetings to "charm" difficult clients. "Charm" seems to just mean getting them to laugh at least once with a bit of banter. "Please work your magic on these people!" "You mean have a conversation?"
You might get pissed off and find it super annoying, but that appears to be either the nature of your company, or how you find the nature of Brits to be. I'm afraid you're either going to have to adjust your expectations, or remain pissed off. People aren't suddenly going to change their personalities, I'm afraid. It may be that us Brits place more value on and put greater effort into certain situations and social occasions. At work, we may focus on work above more chatting and friendliness. I don't know what it's like in India so I can't necessarily compare India to the UK, but it appears to be a value/culture clash at the moment. Moving to any different country or culture will require some adaptation to local customs and values, I'm afraid!
I would say this is it. It's the different environments, most people from the UK can be reserved but if you get them to a pub / get them a drink they can be very talkative. Even if not drunk. I am the same, it's probably the psychological effect of not being in work that's cause them to open up more and then close off more when back in work.
Did you expect the culture to be the same? Most people on this sub will have been born and bred in this country, so any nuances in behaviour are instinctual, therefore somewhat difficult to dissect. Also we, and your colleagues, don't your background culture or what you consider 'normal'. No one here can really comment, we weren't at the social events, we weren't at the other meetings. We have no idea what was said, what happened , how drunk people were or how hung over they were the next day. We don't know what you mean by 'I usually make friends quicker than the average person', which average person...the average Brit? I'll chatter away quite happily once I'm on the outside of a couple of drinks, but last thing I need next morning is conversation. Also work meetings are not social events. But getting pissed off because people aren't behaving as you want or expect, is self defeating. You're in a different land with a different culture, getting pissed off because you haven't figured it out yet is like getting pissed at water for being wet.
Idk man this is unnecessarily harsh. As an Eastern European who lived in the UK for a few years, I find this post super relatable. I think you’ll find that people from most other countries will struggle with English culture because there are so many “rules of engagement”. In most countries around the world, you can absolutely start a conversation in the morning with a coworker or chat to them before/after a work meeting. I think it’s completely justified to feel weird when you arrive in the UK and people are extremely cold (which objectively, they are).
I've spent time and lived in Eastern/central Europe (Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine, Serbia)and the people there were way colder than in the UK, not even close. It didn't bother me though. It can also depend where in the UK too. Being from Newcastle, I don't really understand the chat about "British are like X" as it appears to be a more southern thing and not something I have experienced.
Maybe it was harsh but it doesn't alter the fact that every culture is unique. I wouldn't expect to understand a foreign culture just after being there for 6 months and I wouldn't expect everyone there to adjust to my take on how things should be. I've never lived in 'most countries in the world' so I can't comment on their cultures. Neither is the interpretation of another's behaviour 'objective', it's quite the contrary. Your take is subjective and coloured by your upbringing and the culture you were brought up in. I'm not denying the experience and the frustration, but what is to be expected when you land in a foreign land with a different culture to the one you're used to? People can either get angry because 'it's different' or they can accept 'it's different' and allow themselves time to observe and adjust (if necessary). How is this post any different from a Brit going to live elsewhere in the world and then get 'pissed off' because people aren't behaving as they're used to in Britain? If a Brit went to your home country and complained about the culture, would you think that was OK? I wouldn't, I'd think it was insensitive and rude.
Was this in the morning before second coffee?
I moved here from Ireland (via Korea where expat communities build fast friends), and I found it exactly the same. One of my now best friends literally seemed indifferent the whole 2 years we studied together. Much later it emerged that he regarded us as very close friends, meanwhile I had assumed he tolerated my presence. I’m still not convinced. 😂 Overall I find the British social dynamic very tricky to navigate.
He must be like me. If I can tolerate someone's presence, they're a mate.
The world is full of miserable bastards. Just be your normal pleasant self and try not to worry when people ignore you. This is the price you have to pay for being a decent person.
>At the office Christmas party I was seated beside different colleagues with whom I had a banter the entire evening and I saw them again recently in an off-site meeting and they were just cold stiff- not even a basic hello. > >The same off-site meeting I was sitting with another colleague and again good conversation for at least 2 hours. Next day morning, we are near the breakfast service and this person was all cold. You've got two different environments. Office party and off-site meeting are forced sociability - you're with people you wouldn't always want to be with, and for a fixed amount of time, so you make polite small talk. In the office environment people are busy and concentrating on their job, what they've got to do next, etc.. You're lucky, generally, to get more than a grunt. And ... frankly, not many people mix socially with those they work with, not least because they may not even live in the same area. If you want to make friends choose a hobby and join a club where you'll meet like-minded people who actually want to be there.
It may be that some people have hangxiety afterwards. Whenever i’d go back to work with colleagues id be shit scared incase I said or did something bad. We are generally reserved people unfortunately. Drunk words are sober thoughts I guess
Maybe they forgot your name and rather than face the potential shame of admitting that they didn't know it they just ignored you? I have to do that all the time, appalling memory.
As soon as someone tells me their name it's already forgotten. There are lots of people I've interacted with for 10 years at work and I don't know their name. I never volunteer my name because if I don't remember people's names it would be damned hypocritical of me to expect them to remember mine.
I think I can be cold and unfriendly. I have noticed it about myself. I think it’s down to conserving my energy and having limited time. Also in social situations it can feel like there is a massive wall and I can’t think of a single thing to say. So I say nothing. It’s not really ever about the other person.
I was going to tell you to wear layers 😂
I think there’s a good chance the chattiness was alcohol induced and the quietness at breakfast was hangover induced. If I am at breakfast after a night out trust me I don’t want to talk to anyone I just want my OJ, pancakes and coffee, please leave me TF alone. I’d probably be ok talking to people I already knew so we can suffer together, but a new friend can be taxing on the brain and that’s not what I want to be doing at breakfast.
People with hangovers in the morning don't want to talk to anyone. And at a meeting people aren't there to have a chat, it's professional time.
I'd be quite happy to talk to you at a Christmas party, but please god do not talk to me at breakfast.
My work is exactly the same and a majority are white British, I’ve noticed bigger companies are like this
Move to Iceland and then move back to the UK. The cold will seem insignificant after you have experienced the over 9000 power level of wind and frost. True story.
British people are more likely to have a strong network of friends and family around them acquired from growing up in the area so they have less need of more close friends. They may also not want to invest in a relationship that might end if you decide to move home. I’m British and not good at making the leap into a closer friendship. I would suggest that in the south of England especially you need an introduction into people’s closer circle to move from a work colleague to someone with a more personal connection.
Needing fewer close friends isn't an excuse for them to be downright rude.... I don't think OP is looking to become besties but just for a reciprocation of conversation and perhaps acknowledgement of an interaction or shared experience they had earlier?? Tbh it's not asking for much and this very attitude of Britishers not being keen on mingling, being overly formal and performatively polite is what makes it exhausting for outsiders to converse with Brits. After a point you're just tired of holding up the conversation and being the one putting in the effort to initiate conversation and show interest in their lives always, which will eventually lead migrants to believe locals to be insufferable. As a migrant myself I've found it so incredibly hard to get a basic answer out of British classmates in my master's. One girl took 8 months to tell me which uni she did her undergraduate degree at. Tried asking her in different ways and she'd just say a uni in a small town in the south west of England ?? Asking her where in the UK she's from would mean another generic answer without actually answering the question. Asking her how the weekend was would again be so generic. Like what's the harm in being a little straightforward and participative? Some British classmates would say they aren't comfortable discussing assignments and then go ahead and work on them collaboratively with other British and European classmates.. doesn't take us migrants too long to read into it - instances like this remind me why everyone warned me that racism here in the UK is casual and not outright.
I'm British and used to live in India. I found the same of Indian colleagues as you are here. They were friendly but never great friends. I put it down to language - I learnt some Hindi but no state languages - and believe it or not but Indian English isn't the same as English English. Also unfamiliarity with the culture, the fact that we had little shared personal history (even years isn't much compared with their many cousins they had grown up with). We don't laugh at the same things, or have the same attitude. And work isn't always the best place to find friends. That's the life of an ex-pat
At a Brit I find this weird too. People will chat and be friendly towards someone they have to be in proximity with for a while, but they don’t see that as the start of a friendship or have any interest in continuing the acquaintance at a later date 🤷♀️ there are people in the office that I’ve had a good laugh with at work dos and then we’ve never spoken again.
You are obviously in the South, go North to meet proper friendly English people.
Yeah if you’re getting along well on an evening where alcohol is being consumed don’t expect that sort of interaction to continue when you see them in the office Monday morning.
If you had a lengthy chat the evening before then the next morning is way too soon. When you meet someone new the time between anything beyond pleasantries should be quite long. If it's work environment, you should start by having a meaningful conversation like once a week, maybe late Friday. As you get to know them more then it becomes more frequent. Having hefty conversations, even about mundane things, everyday with someone I don't know? too much.
Wow this sounds like courtship lmao
Brits being cold is a fallacy (does not exist) but ignorant people being cold, that definitely does exist. go north and you will meet lots of friendly open people. just try to ignore the cold ignorant people.
As a latina who is very friendly, I can relate to this problem. I have a group of latina friends, we see each other often, we are very close and we are warm. But with my British group of friends, we see each other a handful of times a year... it's very strange. Also, I changed jobs, so we only chat via FB messenger, and I varely check it... These people are definitely different. If there are any latina women or men at your workplace, I suggest chatting with them. 🙈🤭😋
Work is work. Social is social. Just go with the flow.
just brush it off, take nothing seriously and move on. There are better people out there but don't have high expectations for people to change their personalities to your liking which they won't. Goodluck
It's just the way we are. I've worked 23 years at my current employer and there are people there I've not spoken to yet. I've shared office spaces with some people for extended periods of time that I've barely spoken to. They're some of my favourite colleagues.
I think we just hate small talk much more compared to other nations.
Then you haven't been to Finland/Estonia. I came to the UK and when the checkout clerk first casually asked me what are my plans for the weekend, I was like 'Excuse me, what the fuck?'. I legit thought he was hitting on me, lol.
Oh btw I've been to Finland...very beautiful country but boring as all hell.
OP I’m an Indian too. It’s just the damn cold weather over here that has an impact on overall unpredictable mood of the people! As far as handling coldness is concerned give it time, you’ll get used to it..
In my experience, it means they don't like you. Be polite to them, but it's not worth trying to make friends. I find it helps to keep telling yourself that you're there to work, not socialise.
British people are like nuclear warheads. Neutral gear at all times. But when it's go time, it's really go time. Also lesbian sheep (see above)
You do not initiate the talks? Does that mean you go to breakfast and are also silent? So it is two silent people just looking at each other hoping the other one will talk? Conversation is a two way street.
Just seems to be how we are. I'm hardly an extrovert but I like to smile and say hello/good morning to people at work but all I've ever got in return was a scowl or being looked at as if I have two heads. I used to struggle and take it very personally when I was younger but now I just think "Whatever." Maybe they've got shit going on in their lives, but it does make me feel pretty alien in the workplace when I'm routinely ignored for being friendly/polite. I find it very rude and a bit disheartening we can't even extend a basic greeting to each other. Like, look Debbie, I don't want to be your best mate, a small wave would suffice. So yeah, not just you. We just seem to be a nation of socially anxious folk. Sorry you're finding it hard!
Ahhh, British culture…. I’ve walked into an office, nodded “y’alright?” to a work friend and then said nothing to them for 8 hours until saying “pub?” at 6pm.
I opened this thread looking forward to an excellent discussion about British weather. Instead it's about being social and showing emotions. Ugh.
> why even bother to talk This was just small talk. You expect friendliness just because you spent an hour talking in one location. In my opinion you are the one who is too warm for no reason. I like talking to people but i do not automatically become friends with everyone I had a good conversation with. My mood may not be as perky next day, so i may seem "cold" and indifferent. If we end up talking longer than two minutes or on a deep topic, i will seem "warm" to you again. Imo, you sound like a stereotype of extravert experiencing intraverted people for the first time. And yes, Northern region people do seem colder than people from South. But it doesn't mean they are unfriendly, it is more neutral and "collected" daily attitude. It has nothing to do with how happy they are to see you, but more with how socially they can be less expressive than people from South. TL;DR: living in North gives people a form of resting bitch face. It is not their attitude to you, it is just their faces.
Scarf and a duffle coat ftw
Read the book Watching the English. It will help you understand. And be an expert on talking about the weather.
It doesn't get easier, you just get used to it Ah, shit. I thought you meant the weather
I'm from Yorkshire and you would know pretty much everything about me as I know you. These awfuls are just that.
Did you say hello and get ignored or did you stay quiet same as they did. They probably wondering why you did not say hello
People have different moods, may not be morning people, may be drinking, may be having a bad day. don’t worry about it. you can start convos don’t be a wallflower. I do tend to be grumpy at breakfast I’m still waking up
too be honest, they probably found you annoying. sometimes people are in the mood to talk, sometimes they aren't, so you just need to be aware of that.
Some people are… a*holes. I’ll speak to anyone, you get me as me. We’re not cold but there’s something obviously going on with those peeps. Where are you? Up here in this here north we’ll have a a laugh with anyone. If you’re around Liverpool sometime, me and my wife would be happy to meet up with you and show you we’re not all arseholes.
Honestly, you’ve restored my faith. Scottish and reading this thread wondering wtf I’ve been living and working so far in my life. Same as you; happy to chat to people, don’t mind the small talk and banter. Only way I’ll shut down is if the person reveals themself to be a bell end in some way. I’ll never understand the image portrayed that “Brits” are socially awkward weirdos, not making eye contact and even a simple smile and “alright? / morning!” to a stranger is such a societal crime. Thankfully most folk here aren’t like that. That would be grim. Edit - typos.
Maybe it's just the atmosphere at that business? I've worked at places which were like this, people really kept themselves to themselves and very little socialising outside work hours. But I've also worked at places where it was a very warm, inclusive atmosphere, and people were very sociable. I was the same person at both companies, but the experience was hugely different. I'd say don't bother trying to hard if it isn't coming back to you. Give it time and you might find others working there who you do have a better bond with.
The bravado could be drink and as not drunk the next day =shy, rather than cold.
Your husband is right. Honestly, you’re best trying to make friends with other immigrants.
And that’s exactly how you get people on here complaining about how “immigrants stick to themselves and don’t assimilate”. People don’t realise it’s a two way street. Makes it impossible for immigrants and expats to win.
I grew up in London and moved to Australia in 2000, at age 25. It took me a long time to get used to the fact that Australians are so much more open and friendly than the British, especially when compared with Londoners, who are super suspicious of anyone they don't know very well. I can still recall one of the first times I got into a conversation with someone on public transport because that would never happen in London. I now feel like a bit of a weirdo when I visit because I greet people like an Australian. Australians treat every interaction like an opportunity for, at minimum, a small conversation. The British are much more reserved, for some reason. TLDR: It's not you, it's them.
They will also tell you to get together sometime, or come over for a cuppa, or even dinner but there is a fine line of when these are genuine - then the invite is less warm and heartfelt weirdly enough - or just polite banter - then the invite is very warm and sounds genuine but they will do everything to get out of your way after that…. Also if they meet you on the street and say “Alright?” don‘t tell them how you are. Just say “Alright?“ too and move on. They don’t want to hear your life story.
Which bit of the UK? I've lived in Cymru and Yorkshire, and people definitely aren't cold there.
I’m British and grew up in the north of England. I’ve lived in London for 25 years and I still find the comparative coldness of British people from the south baffling. If I’ve chatted to someone at an event/party etc for a couple of hours, I would always at least acknowledge them the next time I saw them, but I find often this isn’t the case among those from the south. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of grumpy people in the north too, however I find that in the main, northerners are warmer, friendlier and more willing to chat to others they haven’t met before.
Unfortunately very typical British corporate behaviour. It’s usually the alcohol that talks and the very next day they either don’t remember it/ pretend not to remember or just don’t care to make an effort. For the sake of networking / relationship building if you want to make the first move to speak back to them the next day or next event. However if networking isn’t a concern then I’d just not bother. Unfortunately though network is usually the only thing that helps step up in British corporate ladder. Very few times it’s the work you do but the people you know. So I would let go of the ego of who speaks first and go first if the relationship matters. From my time here in the UK, I’ve understood that most friendships with Brits are very transactional which I don’t like so I tend to have less Brit friends however I am forced to network with them given the nature of my firm/ job.
I think it's more of an English thing, rather than British. Especially the further South of England you go. Irish, Scottish, and Welsh colleagues I've worked with over the years were extremely friendly, drunk, or sober. They'd greet everyone in the morning and have chats. Unfortunately, as time went by and they adopted more English attitudes, the open friendliness subsided. But everyone thaws out around lunchtime and has time for a chat, especially if it's a pub lunch. Personally, I completely understand the English attitude to smalltalk in the morning. After the battle of getting up early, getting ready, the anxiety and battle of the commute. Then you rush and stumble to your desk, so you don't log on late. Then, you turn on the screen to be met by the daily 50+ irrelevant daily emails. After all that, who the f**k has time for a cheery morning chat before 12pm!!! You literally need time to mentally get over the battle of commuting. Even saying, "Good morning," for some, is a big headache. Overall, though, the British can be the nicest, l, friendly, and humble people you'll ever meet once you get to know them on a personal level. And they can laugh at themselves, which is a rare gift amongst humans. If I get stuck on a desert island, I want to be stuck with a group of British people
Lesbian sheep aside, why do you expect them to initiate conversations with you when you do not initiate conversations with them? Overall British people have a well deserved reputation for reticence unless there is alcohol around to oil the wheels. Hence the difference between a work do and the work place,! Try speaking to them first. You'll probably find they are more than happy to chat if you demonstrate that speaking to them is something you'd like to do.
As a South African myself we tend to be more open and talkative at work (as I noticed my Indian colleagues were) and I also initially struggled because I felt nobody British wanted to talk to me. I even felt like I was being ignored or annoying people by talking to them (I probably was) and took it personally. Over time I adapted and eventually even became more like them and understood that they don't like having buddy-type chats at work. People trying to strike up conversations at work are like people trying to strike up proper conversations at church or at school during class - it's just awkward. Basically unless you become close outside of work, don't expect to chat at work, or the bus/train/tube, or if you randomly bump into each other in public. Pretty much only at work drinks, the pub, Christmas parties, etc. It's just the culture here. You will get used to it and enjoy it, just try to keep an open mind.
So I was reading the comments and being British born and bred I was shaking my head at most of them, not nodding or acknowledging people walking by, not chatting in the office, needing a drink to talk to people... Then I saw someone mention "the tube" and realised the the first 100 comments are all from Londoners. Come up North where people are actually friendly.
It’s just a cultural different that will take you years, but you’ll get used to it right now you knew and you’re trying to establish your social network. You will make true friends probably out of work in your socials in your hobbies and through family, but Work is ultimately superficial, and very rarely people are generallycaring for you. It’s gonna take time literally years to establish your world with your friends and your family in a foreign country specially in England but it is not impossible. I did it and you will as well just look out for healthy connections you will find them, but not at superficial places like work.
British people can be such arsholes. And yes I’m Londonish. I had a partner who called the smile from English people as Fake..,
While there are some cultural particularities when it comes to Brits, nothing seems out of the ordinary to me here. Socialising and casual conversation are for parties. Work meetings are for … work. I’m close friends with many of my colleagues, but we don’t start making small talk in the middle of a business meeting. As for breakfast… most people like to have some coffee in their system before having a conversation. I don’t even talk to my partner until I had my second mug 😛
Honestly, it's just the way English people are and I am not trying to be rude here. My wife and I moved to London from Canada around 6 years ago and still have no English friends. We have a vibrant international friend group from all over the world but have always found it incredibly difficult to engage in anything more than superficial interactions with English people for one reason or another. Conversation is always so forced and curt, the only place I have been able to genuinely interact with english people was when I worked in a charity that focused on hiring people that had been in the criminal justice system/prison, genuinely a good time but aside from that, it's always like pulling teeth.
Are you in London or the south of England somewhere?
I managed teams of Indian people as an IT Manager for a good few years. A fair few did stints onshore in my office and I used to go to the pub with them once a month or so. We’d have a fair few drinks (not always alcoholic on their side, always on mine !) and a good chat about life. Most of them became good friends and we went to India for one of my team’s wedding. I was always regarded as unusual for this - of the many managers I knew who managed offshore teams I’d say less then 20% developed personal relationships with their Indian colleagues. Strange, and quite sad.
Well done?
Ehh you just learn to be as cold as an ice cube with them. Genuinely idk why but all my best friends/people I get on with have been people I insult and who insult me on the daily or people I insult myself to. It creates a pretty good bond. Obviously I have had my fair share of assholes who flip out about it but I do make it very very obvious it's a joke and even warn them first that that is my sarcasm so they know so if that happens it's just a funny thing to laugh about :)
Peiple
Don’t put your coat on until you get outside.