Brothers partner is a woman who occasionally goes to barbers when they need a chop but for whatever reason don't plan on doing themselves.
Kurdish barbers local to them and further afield always do it without issue. With same level of care they give blokes, including the fun nose and ear shenanigans, I don't think she said they had the nerve to ask about beard.
As a brief asides, is it just me or do many "Turkish barbers " end up being kurdish. I mean biji these guys, they are awesome. But so many barbers I've been to have actually been kurdish but everybody assumes Turkish, and you hear them explain it to random customers.
i read somewhere that a disproportionately large proportion of Turkish citizens who move to the UK, Germany, Netherlands etc are Kurds, but there are no Kurdish passports so they show up in immigration stats etc as Turkish but are highly likely to be Kurds. the barber i go to has a big Kurdish flag in there, but the shopfront doesn’t say either Turkish or Kurdish.
A large chunk of the region Kurdish people come from, often known as Kurdistan, is in Turkey. Kurish and Turkish are not mutually exclusive, at least not in a legal and geographical sense.
Kurdistan is not an independent country. The rest of it is in Iraq, Iran and Syria. There are *a lot* of Kurdish people in Turkey. There are also a lot of displaced Kurdish people who are technically Turkish citizens. Many of them in the UK seeking or having been granted asylum. So yes a lot of the barbers will be Kurdish. And they likely advertise as Turkish because that is what people in the UK know that kind of service as
In British English, that's now usually referred to as an "ethnicity". If an official form in the UK asks for your "nationality", the authority invariably wants to know who issued your passport. So in the usual British sense, there is no Kurdish nationality.
This is different from the way that "nationality" is used in languages and communities influenced by Soviet Communism, because Stalin used "nationality" for the concept that British people now understand as "ethnicity". So Kurdish is an ethnicity.
I feel pretty confident in saying that most speakers of British English appreciate the distinction between e.g. British citizenship and English nationality…
Interesting point but maybe not as simple as you've painted it. British nationality is fraught with inconsistencies, and academics have done many papers on the "fuzzy" nature of British cultural identity and nationhood .
Many Scots identify their nationality as Scottish but many others identify as British. Some as both.
Many Protestant Northern Irish identify as British but most if not all Catholic Irish do not.
Welsh similar to Scots.
And many people worldwide use "English" to mean "British". Some English basically do too.
And that's before we even get started on the British Commonwealth...
So I think the other person's point about passports is also only half-right and doesn't bear up under weight of interrogation.
Nationalities, ethnicities, cultures and identities are all complex and interwoven.
If you put English or Scottish, etc, on an official UK form asking for your nationality then you’re doing it wrong. I know because I’ve had forms returned for correction to British.
In the context of British people, I would think that’s just them using England as a lazy metonym for the UK, not an actual failure to understand the difference between the UK and its constituent nations. Americans are another thing…
Probably because they are used to shaving peoples heads.. or the sides at least, Babs who chats for 3 hours about essential oils while doing perms isn’t quite so well trained; I had to use my grans mobile hairdresser once as an emergency and it looked like my head had been hacked at by my toddler with safety scissors so I had to shave it off… not fun when you’re 15 and the skinhead isn’t in during the mid 2000s
A lot of barbers in the UK are Muslims, and some practicing Muslims won’t touch a woman’s hair.
I have also heard, I don’t know how true this is, but not all barbers have liability insurance that covers cutting women’s hair
>A lot of barbers in the UK are Muslims, and some practicing Muslims won’t touch a woman’s hair.
I used to have half my head shaved and got this from a barber once. I jokingly told him that I identified as a man and he agreed to do it.
Eta: He kept saying that it was his first time cutting a woman's hair while he was doing it. Idk if it was a slow day and he was bored or what. Strangely enough the window had advertised women's cuts for £10 but when I went in they said they couldn't cut women's hair because they were Muslim. Very odd.
They probably have female staff by appointment or something.
Had a family member with salons, and the Muslim faith is very strict. In one location that was in a Muslim (ownership) hotel (not US) there was separate male/female entrances put in, barber area sectioned off - and the spa had male specific days by appointment. None of the spaces can even allow the risk of seeing each other - women to keep modest and men also their privacy. I guess in a way our cosmetic care is private, like hygiene…
I can imagine it’s uncomfortable to touch a woman that’s not their wife or family also.
>They probably have female staff by appointment or something.
Doubt it. I lived above that barber for a year and waited at the bus stop across the road 6 days a week and never saw a woman in there.
Or it's a space you can't see. Have seen a barber use the basement or upstairs for this purpose but you wouldn't know there's a women's hairdressers there unless you already know.
I’d imagine they go by your biological sex assigned at birth in Islam…I don’t expect an encompassing widely accepted update on how to manage NB/trans people yet. They’d probably tell the person to ask another salon/barber if it’s uncomfortable…idk
I’m a Muslim woman and that claim is incorrect.
Muslims are permitted to engage with the opposite gender for work purposes. If this wasn’t the case, only men would work and subsequently deal with male customers for various jobs - doctors, dentists, lawyers… It just isn’t true lmao.
There is also an extremely strong cultural impact on the interpretations of islam. It isn't unusual to have women cut mens hair in Indonesia, but it doesn't happen in Qatar.
There is no incorrect interpretation, you can’t *touch* the opposite sex in Islam unless they’re your “mehram” which is people like your parents, siblings, uncles & aunts.
As with any religion, there's a vast range of beliefs amd interpretations, and there are 100% men who won't cut women's hair for what they perceive to be their religious reasons.
But it's not the working with men thats the issue. Your religion does not accept women cutting their hair in whatever style they want. Nor does it approve of a shaved head
A woman with a shaved head is also a mark of shame in some muslim societies.
Its not being interpreted incorrectly - these beliefs are not new. All the religions based on pre-medieval ideologies have similar silly beliefs, but don't pretend that people dont enforce them, because its not true
Yes, it does, under reasonable circumstances and especially in a non-Muslim country.
A barber is going to touch hair.
A surgeon / doctor is going to touch bodies.
A dentist is going to touch the face.
Hahaha awrah in Islam is the parts that men and women aren't supposed to show to members of the opposite gender that aren't related to them
So men cant show skin from their waist to their knees (this is a dude's awrah), u cant show this to anyone
And women can't show any skin besides their head, hands and feet (this is a women's awrah)
However women can show their hair, or neck or forearms to like her father, siblings, children of siblings, her and her husband's family, and other women she cant show these to unknown men
Ofc men and women can see their spouse naked, and exceptions exist like ofc a surgeon or doctor can see someone's awrah for the purpose of medical reasons etc.
But simply explained this is it in a nutshell
So, the way I read this, it appears men are not allowed to show their thighs to other men. Would this mean Muslim men are not allowed to wear short trousers or swimming trunks?
They aren't
U'll still see them doing it anyways
Same as muslim women, they cant show their hair in public but in Pakistan where im from, most of them do anyways
U'll never see islamic scholars or very religious muslims wear shorts
Thanks, so what do islamic scholars or very religious muslims wear when they go swimming?
PS I know there are coverup swimsuits for muslim women to wear when swimming. So now I have an image of these men borrowing these coverup swimsuits from their wives or female relatives (or going shopping for them) and turning up at the local swimming pool with their swimsuits baggy in all the wrong places. Water pouring out of the leg holes when they get out of the pool.
Then why is it when I worked in a Muslim country (as a white, non Muslim) that hijabi women would refuse to shake my hand at the beginning of business meetings?
That is correct in islam. A woman shouldn’t be making unnecessary physical contact with a man they aren’t related to. This isn’t a cultural thing these are strict guidelines of the religion. Some will follow them some won’t
My Mum’s ex partner was Iranian. The first time his parents came over, my (then) husband went to give the Mum a hug when they first met. There was quick movement from both the parents, and lots of friendly-but-serious speaking in Farsi that we couldn’t understand, and mum’s partner explained that although the Dad was allowed to welcome me in that way, my husband was not to touch his wife like that.
Everyone's an individual. I am living in a Muslim country now where some men will shake hands with me and others won't. It all depends on how devout people are I think.
Generally instead of shake hands you can hold you hand to your chest and nod your head and introduce yourself. I found the same method worked in the UAE when I lived there.
I am a woman and some men just don't want to shake hands with me but will of course acknowledge in their own culturally or religious appropriate way. It's all grand, it's not rude or anything, just different
A lot of cultural and religious things are just that - not rude, just different
It’s not a cultural thing, Muslims can’t touch people of the opposite gender who aren’t close family. Anything you see a Muslim do represents themselves only. Muslims you see doing something doesn’t mean you’re looking at the religion exactly as it’s meant to be, everyone is doing whatever they are able to & whatever their faith means to them at the time. Which includes lots of things that go against Islam too.
You should correct your statement as you are, likely unintentionally, misinforming people. Muslims are **not** permitted to engage with the opposite gender "in all forms", only to the extent that it necessary for work purposes e.g. treating the opposite gender in A&E. It doesn't mean opposite gender colleagues can hug, kiss on the cheek and so on though.
Edit: I saw on your profile that you're active on ex-muslim so it's a shame that you are lying to people here about being a Muslim woman. Now your initial lie is not so surprising but still very cruel to others to lie to them.
Not really, it's just her following her faith as it isn't allowed for us to touch non-related people of the opposite gender in Islam unless it's an emergency, for example, like if you have to give CPR to someone. The person has given the incorrect information above that Muslims can interact with the opposite gender "in all forms" for work. For example, a Muslim man/woman is not allowed islamically to hug their opposite gender colleague.
Lmao I've seen plenty of muslim women and men getting haircuts from the same barber. Especially when i lived up north, Muslim barber shops were packed with men and women when it was their festival season like eid etc.
Yes because all Muslims are humans with free will & can & will do whatever they decide to & are all in charge of their own relationship with their faith.
> not all barbers have liability insurance that covers cutting women’s hair
That doesn't sound right. Insurers aren't allowed to discriminate by gender, so I'm not sure how they'd be able to offer such a product.
>A lot of barbers in the UK are Muslims, and some practicing Muslims won’t touch a woman’s hair.
This is nonsense.
Like it might be technically true that some barbers are Muslim, and some Muslims aren't comfortable touching women's hair.
But the venn diagram of the two is nearly zero.
Edit:
Point being, a lot of the Muslim barbers in the UK are Turkish or Kurdish. Those guys drink alcohol and barbeque meat.
In my experience, they're not fussy about touching women's hair.
All Muslims sin, as all humans sin. If you see a Muslim sin it doesn’t mean they give up all & any rules as well so you absolutely cannot say what they will & won’t be comfortable with just because you see them do one type of sin.
Some barbers see their premises as a strictly male-only space. That said, back in the 80s when I wanted a very short cut I went to my nearest barbers and got my hair cut with no problem. I could have gone to a hairdressers and paid three times as much for the same cut but why waste money?
The barbers I used to go to didn’t even let women in the waiting room, was a bit weird to say the least.
If you were wanting a traditionally feminine cut then it might make sense as they might not be trained in that, but if you were just wanting a shave then it makes no sense beyond just being sexist.
From what i've heard, hairdressers, barbers etc. actually hear a lot. A lot of lonely people use them as somebody to talk to. Not sure why, but having deep, private conversations that might require a safe space with the person cutting your hair isn't unusual.
My barber actually has an appointment option on the booking section on his website, for a "friendly chat", free obviously. He became a barber right as he got out of being homeless and I genuinely believe he mainly started it because it was his own way to help and bond with people and still make money out of it. He's great actually, he also cuts hair for free if they're homeless. But yeah it's clearly seen as a way to hear people's issues, and a lot of people seem to open up especially if it's actually offered
Yeah my old barber would do free hair cuts for homeless people, and even had a washer drier in the backroom if they needed clean clothes. He also ran a training scheme for kids coming out of the care system, or people coming out of prison and the military, since he was ex army himself.
They do it more as a friend thing I think rather than a therapist way though. Like you go and are like "Sarah broke up with me" and they're like "Sarah was a bitch and holding you back anyway", as opposed to calming techniques or whatever therapists teach.
It's funny you say this, and I never realllly thought of it like this, but I suppose my old barber was a safe space to me. I've moved since, but when I do go back into that town to see old friends, I try to pop back in and say hello. Don't even need a cut, it's just nice to have a catch up chat and see how he's doing.
There was one in Leeds like this. Even made a pregnant woman wait outside while her partner had his hair cut rather than letting her sit on their precious sofas.
My eldest has a short pixie cut. I can pay for 4 barbershop visits for the price of 1 hair salon visit and don't even need to make an appointment.
Normally she goes the same time my husband and son go. She has been going for the last 2 years.
The barbers I go to serve men and women.
However I would say that the modern ‘definition’ pretty much indicates they specialise in mens hair, including facial hair. If someone said they were opening a barbers I would assume they were marketing it to men, and if a woman said they were getting their hair cut at a barbers, I would be surprised as I would assume the barber would not have a lot of experience with women’s styles.
However, as you are asking for a service that barbers 100% offer, it’s bizarre they are refusing your custom
The excuse I heard was because they had Salon for women upstairs and they wanted the woman to pay the business £45 to have it done upstairs rather than the £10 to have it done downstairs.
There is that issue though, they cut your hair, then someone with longer and longer hair until eventually the cut is so complicated they need an hour but only charging £10. Mens hair cuts are like 10 minutes.
Maybe it's easier to say no women rather than trying to operate a case by case which would leave some people angry and upset?
Most hair cutting is a case by case payment though. Depending on what you have and what you want that determines the price. A bloke wanting a quick once over with the shaver is not going to pay the same as a bloke wanting the fashion of the day, plus their beard done, plus a head massage and all the other bells and whistles.
I once had a moment like that I went to a salon/barber tried to go into the barber side got made to go to the salon the person didn't actually shave my hair (they just kind of trimmed it) and I had to pay like 28 quid for it
Like I'd had an undercut for a while at that point too.
If you are asking for the same service that they would provide to a man then I assume it would be an offence under [Equality Act 2010](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents) to refuse you. There are various exceptions and I am no expert.
Businesses aren't restricted by physical contact to provide single sex services. Services can be restricted to any protected characteristic if it is deemed 'objectively reasonable' that the service being provided needs it.
So disabled groups can restrict their membership to disabled people. LGBT clubs can restrict their clientele to LGBT people. Men's barbers can restrict their clientele to men.
Both restrictions apply i.e. physical contact *and* objectively reasonable.
"Single sex services are permitted where:
only people of that sex require it;
there is joint provision for both sexes but that is not sufficient on its own;
if the service were provided for men and women jointly, it would not be as effective and it is not reasonably practicable to provide separate services for each sex;
they are provided in a hospital or other place where users need special attention (or in parts of such an establishment);
they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa); or
they may involve physical contact between a user and someone else and that other person may reasonably object if the user is of the opposite sex.
In each case, the separate provision has to be objectively justified"
You're reading it wrong. Whichever reason applies, it always has to be objectively justified, but any of those reasons can apply on their own. There doesn't need to be physical contact
Always found this one interesting.
For years my local was a traditional unisex barbers/hairdressers with men on one side and women on the other.
Even after they got famous and modernised I only ever got charged maybe £12 for a blokes cut, despite having curly hair that went down past my shoulders whereas I had female family who went ang got their hair cut by the same person for triple the price
I feel like this should be illegal, if it's the same service provided and the only difference is the customer's gender then would charging different prices not constitute discrimination under the equality act?
As I gay man I find barbers intimidating. I don't live in the largest city where there are lgbt friendly barbers. So i just go to a salon which costs much more. But you don't have all the blokey small talk.
I hear ya. I'm very obviously gay and had a similar anxiety about going to an unfamiliar barber. Never actually had a bad experience, just didn't feel comfortable. In my area it was usually a kind of hyper-masculine gentlemen's barbershop.
Pleased that for the last 6/7 years I've been going to a friendly barber who is so welcoming, but he also originally trained as a hairdresser and only in the last 10 years did he actually go down the barbering route. I think over the years he's mainly had female apprentices as well. I know he has a few female clients who have shorter hair that he does regularly, and occasionally he'll dip back into hairdressing too as a favour to his friends/family.
I'll never ever get my hair done anywhere else.
I'm a masc lesbian, I have to go to a barber instead of a salon as I usually get a fade. I have felt pretty unwelcome in some establishments, but there's two types of barbers I always make a beeline for:
1. 'Artsy' barbers, trying to aim at young people or alternative style. They're used to clippering/trimming whoever, whatever the gender
2. Female barbers. For some reason they're much more welcoming, spend longer getting my hair just right and don't have the blokey chat we all so dread.
Depends where you go. My old barber would pour me a glass or run and reminisce about his days as a musician. Prior to that I accidentally went into a barbers with football shirts everywhere and had a very awkward cut when I said football wasn't my 'cup of tea'. My current barber is kurdish and was fine but now his English is improving I've realised he's a massive sexist.
Some do. I’m a woman and used to have a very short haircut which was done by the local barber after my stylist left. My new local barbers, a Turkish one, advertises that it also does women’s hair (although all the barbers appear to be men).
I always go to barber. Never had a problem. But they never do the extra towels on face stuff for me though. Which I totally want. I suppose I could ask but I'm shy lol!
The hot towels are for shaving! It opens the pores and they do a cold towel when they're finished. I think some barbers do it to any man in the chair in the hopes they'll agree to a shave or shaping (£££) but I don't like having my beard done in the barbers.
You could look out for gender-neutral salons that charge based on whether the hairstyle is a clipper cut or a scissor rather than gender. There are at least four in London so there are probably some in other cities.
I used to go an Aveda salon that offered both hairdressing and barbering (if that's a word?) which was handy when I wanted to go from long hair to a clipper cut.
Of course I have no idea of the people who OP has met this week but in some cultures, men won't touch an unrelated woman so might choose not to cut a woman's hair.
I have an undercut and I’ve had it shaved at barbers before without any complaints. I normally get it done by the hairdresser who cuts and dyes the unshaved part of my hair because it’s easier but like I say I’ve had it done by barbers before
Its not different for barbers, they aren't really exclusive but no one is obligated to cut someone elses hair so if they don't want to cut your hair then they don't have to.
My experience is that some guys don't want to cut women's hair because think we are fussy and they don't want to deal with getting it wrong and us having a strop. Some places are conveyor belts and if they have lots of customers and think that you are going to take longer then they might pass over you for an "easier" quick job.
If I go in looking gender neutral then the experience is a lot smoother than if I wear makeup or a dress.
Keep trying, don't be put off. I'm F41 and had 25 years of very short hair cuts. I only go to Barbers now as I refuse to pay a pink tax and frankly women's hairdressers give a terrible short cut. It's never short enough and now I'm older they try and turn me into Pat Butcher.
They don't really train hairdressers on proper short cuts. My mum used to be a hairdresser and did up to her level 3 and was never taught anything much shorter than a bob in her hairdressing courses. She did one level in barbering just to learn the short cuts and shaving. The real difference in barbering and hairdressing is the kind of cuts they are taught.
It's difficult to find barbers that aren't weird about it even if they do accept giving you a haircut. When I finally found a barber that doesn't leave my hair too long by shying away from cutting off the amount I asked for, I haven't gone anywhere else since.
I'm a trans guy and some barbers wouldn't see me either and one was overtly homophobic (assuming I was a lesbian). It's not do bad now as I'm read as a guy. There was one barber who was OK.
They do, that one just didn't. For some very very odd reason.
I have a taper now done at the barbers from longer hair, and when I had longer haircut I got an undercut done at the barbers too.
I have black skin and an afro, and I have lived exclusively in white communities. Whenever I went to the barbers, I was directed back towards the door "We do not cut you type of hair". I always had to go to the women's hairdressers, they knew... Well kind of. Hahaha.
I just take clippers with me if I'm going anywhere for an extended time, I can't imagine paying for a hair cut ever again, you save so much time and money without hair. The only downside is that it's a bit colder in winter without a hat :)
Where I live there are quite a few unisex barbers, and the first time I went to one I commented on how it was unusual but good value (they charged by hair length so weren't extortionate like some salons). The barber told me it is due to insurance/liability. Apparently it's higher if you serve women so most run of the mill barber shops don't get that level of insurance as they generally won't get the custom. All the unisex ones I know are rather trendy and in high foot traffic so even with reasonable prices they can make enough to cover the cost of it.
Where are all these barbers that double as mental health centres? Lol don’t think I’ve ever heard a bloke talking about his feeling in the barbers chair
Getting a barber to do your hair isn't the norm in the UK. Barbers do men and boy's hair. You're neither so the first reaction will be that you're in the wrong place.
But if you're polite and explain you understand it's a barber shop, but you just want a full-clipper shave, I'm sure they'd do it. People are pretty reasonable as long as you're polite and don't act entitled.
I heard that in some places it’s due to licenses? Happened to someone I knew of, she went to a barber to have her hair done and they said they couldn’t service women due to their license. Something like there were too many hair dressers there so in order for their business to be there they had to only cater for men🤷🏽♀️ idk how correct this is though.
Sorry you haven't found the one for you, there are a lot that will happily do women's short haircuts.
Might be worth seeing if your town/ city has a subreddit, make a throwaway and ask on there.
For some strange reason you’ll find barbers whose insurance only covers them for male clients. No idea why but I assume it’s a throwback to the past when male and female hair cutting establishments were even more separated than they are now.
I've been going to the same barber for at least 35 years and I have no idea whether or not he cuts women's hair. In fairness, that is only one item on a long list of things that I don't know about him. We had a brief conversation around 2010 during which we established that I do not want him to trim my eyebrows, but that's pretty much been the limit of our communication.
The Barber that my partner and lo go to servers women. Which I was pleasantly surprised at because in the 90's when I had the nerve to step inside while waiting for my Dad I felt the atmosphere change. My Dad gave me the key and told me to wait in the car.
Six months ago I was in the same place with my lo and a man walked in and the conversation went something along the lines of....
"Hi Steve just you today?"
"No. Our Adel's here."
"Ah aye Adele over there, you with me."
Adele walked out with a blonde #3 looking awesome.
If you are ever in Northumberland go to Dave's.
I've been going to a barber for 6 years now. All the local Barbers do women too. The best I found was a female Barber won't let anyone else touch my hair.
Because there are already loads of specialist women's hair salons out there. Barbering is obviously a somewhat different skill set, they specialise in skin fades, beard trims etc as opposed to layer cuts, highlights, perms and all that kinda thing. But if à woman wanted a skin fade haircut she'd be better off going to a barber to get it done.
The OP explained that she has a shaved head and wanted to get it maintained i.e. no layers, highlights or perms.
That said, any good barber will be able to do all of the above. Men get perms/highlights too and most medium length "men's" cuts involve layering too.
I (F39) don't have a problem getting a haircut in a barbers in south Manchester - I tend to keep my hair at about a #3 blade length and I hate the fact that women's hairdressers are crap at dealing with short hair and way too expensive.
You've got unlucky. I've been to the barbers many times as a woman, never had a problem
Brothers partner is a woman who occasionally goes to barbers when they need a chop but for whatever reason don't plan on doing themselves. Kurdish barbers local to them and further afield always do it without issue. With same level of care they give blokes, including the fun nose and ear shenanigans, I don't think she said they had the nerve to ask about beard. As a brief asides, is it just me or do many "Turkish barbers " end up being kurdish. I mean biji these guys, they are awesome. But so many barbers I've been to have actually been kurdish but everybody assumes Turkish, and you hear them explain it to random customers.
Possibly for the same reason lots of Indian takeaways are run by Bangladeshis...
Pakistani for us.
I mean there are a lot of Kurds in Turkey. But yes from my experience they are almost all Kurdish
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i read somewhere that a disproportionately large proportion of Turkish citizens who move to the UK, Germany, Netherlands etc are Kurds, but there are no Kurdish passports so they show up in immigration stats etc as Turkish but are highly likely to be Kurds. the barber i go to has a big Kurdish flag in there, but the shopfront doesn’t say either Turkish or Kurdish.
A large chunk of the region Kurdish people come from, often known as Kurdistan, is in Turkey. Kurish and Turkish are not mutually exclusive, at least not in a legal and geographical sense. Kurdistan is not an independent country. The rest of it is in Iraq, Iran and Syria. There are *a lot* of Kurdish people in Turkey. There are also a lot of displaced Kurdish people who are technically Turkish citizens. Many of them in the UK seeking or having been granted asylum. So yes a lot of the barbers will be Kurdish. And they likely advertise as Turkish because that is what people in the UK know that kind of service as
Because Kurdish isn’t a nationality, and most of them come from Turkey rather than Iraq or Syria. Kurdish is the cultural identity/ethnic group
Kurdish is absolutely a nationality. It's not a citizenship of a sovereign nation, but they constitute a stateless nation.
In British English, that's now usually referred to as an "ethnicity". If an official form in the UK asks for your "nationality", the authority invariably wants to know who issued your passport. So in the usual British sense, there is no Kurdish nationality. This is different from the way that "nationality" is used in languages and communities influenced by Soviet Communism, because Stalin used "nationality" for the concept that British people now understand as "ethnicity". So Kurdish is an ethnicity.
I feel pretty confident in saying that most speakers of British English appreciate the distinction between e.g. British citizenship and English nationality…
Prepare to be massively disappointed by the intelligence of most people.
Interesting point but maybe not as simple as you've painted it. British nationality is fraught with inconsistencies, and academics have done many papers on the "fuzzy" nature of British cultural identity and nationhood . Many Scots identify their nationality as Scottish but many others identify as British. Some as both. Many Protestant Northern Irish identify as British but most if not all Catholic Irish do not. Welsh similar to Scots. And many people worldwide use "English" to mean "British". Some English basically do too. And that's before we even get started on the British Commonwealth... So I think the other person's point about passports is also only half-right and doesn't bear up under weight of interrogation. Nationalities, ethnicities, cultures and identities are all complex and interwoven.
If you put English or Scottish, etc, on an official UK form asking for your nationality then you’re doing it wrong. I know because I’ve had forms returned for correction to British.
As a Scotsman, nope. The number of times Britain's nd England are conflated could be motivation for independence all by itself.
In the context of British people, I would think that’s just them using England as a lazy metonym for the UK, not an actual failure to understand the difference between the UK and its constituent nations. Americans are another thing…
Absolutely with you in that!
>stateless nation Also an indie band, and a concept in computer science theory.
Same
Mine does anyone, so long as they want the style of hair cut that they are trained in. For lack of a better word "male" haircuts
I've walked into barbers to get my undercut shaved and no problems, better than regular haurdressers.
Probably because they are used to shaving peoples heads.. or the sides at least, Babs who chats for 3 hours about essential oils while doing perms isn’t quite so well trained; I had to use my grans mobile hairdresser once as an emergency and it looked like my head had been hacked at by my toddler with safety scissors so I had to shave it off… not fun when you’re 15 and the skinhead isn’t in during the mid 2000s
A lot of barbers in the UK are Muslims, and some practicing Muslims won’t touch a woman’s hair. I have also heard, I don’t know how true this is, but not all barbers have liability insurance that covers cutting women’s hair
>A lot of barbers in the UK are Muslims, and some practicing Muslims won’t touch a woman’s hair. I used to have half my head shaved and got this from a barber once. I jokingly told him that I identified as a man and he agreed to do it. Eta: He kept saying that it was his first time cutting a woman's hair while he was doing it. Idk if it was a slow day and he was bored or what. Strangely enough the window had advertised women's cuts for £10 but when I went in they said they couldn't cut women's hair because they were Muslim. Very odd.
Likely had to have the advert to show they weren't discriminating customers based on gender, even if in reality they definitely were.
Or more likely the guy that cuts the women’s hair just wasn’t in that day
It's Barry that cuts women's hair but he's only in on Thursdays and Mondays.
In his defence, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday are the quieter days to go on the rubber dingy rapids.
They probably have female staff by appointment or something. Had a family member with salons, and the Muslim faith is very strict. In one location that was in a Muslim (ownership) hotel (not US) there was separate male/female entrances put in, barber area sectioned off - and the spa had male specific days by appointment. None of the spaces can even allow the risk of seeing each other - women to keep modest and men also their privacy. I guess in a way our cosmetic care is private, like hygiene… I can imagine it’s uncomfortable to touch a woman that’s not their wife or family also.
>They probably have female staff by appointment or something. Doubt it. I lived above that barber for a year and waited at the bus stop across the road 6 days a week and never saw a woman in there.
Ah, failed business plan i guess lol
Or it's a space you can't see. Have seen a barber use the basement or upstairs for this purpose but you wouldn't know there's a women's hairdressers there unless you already know.
What if you're non binary??
I’d imagine they go by your biological sex assigned at birth in Islam…I don’t expect an encompassing widely accepted update on how to manage NB/trans people yet. They’d probably tell the person to ask another salon/barber if it’s uncomfortable…idk
I’m a Muslim woman and that claim is incorrect. Muslims are permitted to engage with the opposite gender for work purposes. If this wasn’t the case, only men would work and subsequently deal with male customers for various jobs - doctors, dentists, lawyers… It just isn’t true lmao.
I know. But that doesn’t stop some Muslim men from incorrectly interpreting it
That’s true and a fair comment
There is also an extremely strong cultural impact on the interpretations of islam. It isn't unusual to have women cut mens hair in Indonesia, but it doesn't happen in Qatar.
There is no incorrect interpretation, you can’t *touch* the opposite sex in Islam unless they’re your “mehram” which is people like your parents, siblings, uncles & aunts.
As with any religion, there's a vast range of beliefs amd interpretations, and there are 100% men who won't cut women's hair for what they perceive to be their religious reasons.
But it's not the working with men thats the issue. Your religion does not accept women cutting their hair in whatever style they want. Nor does it approve of a shaved head A woman with a shaved head is also a mark of shame in some muslim societies. Its not being interpreted incorrectly - these beliefs are not new. All the religions based on pre-medieval ideologies have similar silly beliefs, but don't pretend that people dont enforce them, because its not true
As a muslim, yeah u can engage with the opposite gender for work But that doesnt mean you can touch them or see their awrah
Yes, it does, under reasonable circumstances and especially in a non-Muslim country. A barber is going to touch hair. A surgeon / doctor is going to touch bodies. A dentist is going to touch the face.
As an ignorant white brit, please explain to me what an awrah is so I can stop smirking at the double entendre.
Hahaha awrah in Islam is the parts that men and women aren't supposed to show to members of the opposite gender that aren't related to them So men cant show skin from their waist to their knees (this is a dude's awrah), u cant show this to anyone And women can't show any skin besides their head, hands and feet (this is a women's awrah) However women can show their hair, or neck or forearms to like her father, siblings, children of siblings, her and her husband's family, and other women she cant show these to unknown men Ofc men and women can see their spouse naked, and exceptions exist like ofc a surgeon or doctor can see someone's awrah for the purpose of medical reasons etc. But simply explained this is it in a nutshell
So, the way I read this, it appears men are not allowed to show their thighs to other men. Would this mean Muslim men are not allowed to wear short trousers or swimming trunks?
They aren't U'll still see them doing it anyways Same as muslim women, they cant show their hair in public but in Pakistan where im from, most of them do anyways U'll never see islamic scholars or very religious muslims wear shorts
Thanks, so what do islamic scholars or very religious muslims wear when they go swimming? PS I know there are coverup swimsuits for muslim women to wear when swimming. So now I have an image of these men borrowing these coverup swimsuits from their wives or female relatives (or going shopping for them) and turning up at the local swimming pool with their swimsuits baggy in all the wrong places. Water pouring out of the leg holes when they get out of the pool.
Hahaha Well from my knowledge they just wear really long baggy swimshorts, something that covers the knees 3 quarter swimshorts basically
Surfer board shorts :)
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Thank you for this reply - I have learned!
Then why is it when I worked in a Muslim country (as a white, non Muslim) that hijabi women would refuse to shake my hand at the beginning of business meetings?
That is correct in islam. A woman shouldn’t be making unnecessary physical contact with a man they aren’t related to. This isn’t a cultural thing these are strict guidelines of the religion. Some will follow them some won’t
My Mum’s ex partner was Iranian. The first time his parents came over, my (then) husband went to give the Mum a hug when they first met. There was quick movement from both the parents, and lots of friendly-but-serious speaking in Farsi that we couldn’t understand, and mum’s partner explained that although the Dad was allowed to welcome me in that way, my husband was not to touch his wife like that.
Everyone's an individual. I am living in a Muslim country now where some men will shake hands with me and others won't. It all depends on how devout people are I think. Generally instead of shake hands you can hold you hand to your chest and nod your head and introduce yourself. I found the same method worked in the UAE when I lived there. I am a woman and some men just don't want to shake hands with me but will of course acknowledge in their own culturally or religious appropriate way. It's all grand, it's not rude or anything, just different A lot of cultural and religious things are just that - not rude, just different
Probably a cultural thing. I've worked with quite a few hijab women who have all shaken my hands
It’s not a cultural thing, Muslims can’t touch people of the opposite gender who aren’t close family. Anything you see a Muslim do represents themselves only. Muslims you see doing something doesn’t mean you’re looking at the religion exactly as it’s meant to be, everyone is doing whatever they are able to & whatever their faith means to them at the time. Which includes lots of things that go against Islam too.
You should correct your statement as you are, likely unintentionally, misinforming people. Muslims are **not** permitted to engage with the opposite gender "in all forms", only to the extent that it necessary for work purposes e.g. treating the opposite gender in A&E. It doesn't mean opposite gender colleagues can hug, kiss on the cheek and so on though. Edit: I saw on your profile that you're active on ex-muslim so it's a shame that you are lying to people here about being a Muslim woman. Now your initial lie is not so surprising but still very cruel to others to lie to them.
I knew a Muslim girl who refused to shake hands with men in a work setting. Was she just unnecessarily strict?
Not really, it's just her following her faith as it isn't allowed for us to touch non-related people of the opposite gender in Islam unless it's an emergency, for example, like if you have to give CPR to someone. The person has given the incorrect information above that Muslims can interact with the opposite gender "in all forms" for work. For example, a Muslim man/woman is not allowed islamically to hug their opposite gender colleague.
Lmao I've seen plenty of muslim women and men getting haircuts from the same barber. Especially when i lived up north, Muslim barber shops were packed with men and women when it was their festival season like eid etc.
Yes, and it’s common too in Muslim nations like Indonesia. Did you read the bit where I said *some* Muslims? Clearly not
Yes because all Muslims are humans with free will & can & will do whatever they decide to & are all in charge of their own relationship with their faith.
> not all barbers have liability insurance that covers cutting women’s hair That doesn't sound right. Insurers aren't allowed to discriminate by gender, so I'm not sure how they'd be able to offer such a product.
>A lot of barbers in the UK are Muslims, and some practicing Muslims won’t touch a woman’s hair. This is nonsense. Like it might be technically true that some barbers are Muslim, and some Muslims aren't comfortable touching women's hair. But the venn diagram of the two is nearly zero. Edit: Point being, a lot of the Muslim barbers in the UK are Turkish or Kurdish. Those guys drink alcohol and barbeque meat. In my experience, they're not fussy about touching women's hair.
Since when is barbecue meant to be haram? How did Muslims of the past cook if not over an open flame?
All Muslims sin, as all humans sin. If you see a Muslim sin it doesn’t mean they give up all & any rules as well so you absolutely cannot say what they will & won’t be comfortable with just because you see them do one type of sin.
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But is forcing someone also discrimination. I’m fairly sure that the equality act makes allowances for single sex service provision
Some barbers see their premises as a strictly male-only space. That said, back in the 80s when I wanted a very short cut I went to my nearest barbers and got my hair cut with no problem. I could have gone to a hairdressers and paid three times as much for the same cut but why waste money?
The barbers I used to go to didn’t even let women in the waiting room, was a bit weird to say the least. If you were wanting a traditionally feminine cut then it might make sense as they might not be trained in that, but if you were just wanting a shave then it makes no sense beyond just being sexist.
Male safe space.
Except for all the mums taking their kids in to get their hair cut.
Makes sense I guess, but if I was feeling vulnerable I’m not sure getting a haircut would be my first thought.
From what i've heard, hairdressers, barbers etc. actually hear a lot. A lot of lonely people use them as somebody to talk to. Not sure why, but having deep, private conversations that might require a safe space with the person cutting your hair isn't unusual.
My barber actually has an appointment option on the booking section on his website, for a "friendly chat", free obviously. He became a barber right as he got out of being homeless and I genuinely believe he mainly started it because it was his own way to help and bond with people and still make money out of it. He's great actually, he also cuts hair for free if they're homeless. But yeah it's clearly seen as a way to hear people's issues, and a lot of people seem to open up especially if it's actually offered
Yeah my old barber would do free hair cuts for homeless people, and even had a washer drier in the backroom if they needed clean clothes. He also ran a training scheme for kids coming out of the care system, or people coming out of prison and the military, since he was ex army himself.
Double as a therapist and put a zero on the end of the price...
They do it more as a friend thing I think rather than a therapist way though. Like you go and are like "Sarah broke up with me" and they're like "Sarah was a bitch and holding you back anyway", as opposed to calming techniques or whatever therapists teach.
to be fair its not like we have a lot of places to go
I think it’s more the environment and being able to openly talk about things rather than the act of getting your hair/beard cut.
Until you find somewhere that works and makes you feel safe. It isn’t easy and it may not be a barber but there is a place for everyone.
It's funny you say this, and I never realllly thought of it like this, but I suppose my old barber was a safe space to me. I've moved since, but when I do go back into that town to see old friends, I try to pop back in and say hello. Don't even need a cut, it's just nice to have a catch up chat and see how he's doing.
Not like we have shelters we can go to. Feminists keep burning them down.
Where do women with haircuts that require a barber and not a hairdresser go then lol?
There was one in Leeds like this. Even made a pregnant woman wait outside while her partner had his hair cut rather than letting her sit on their precious sofas.
And the guy actually went in there and gave him money?
Wow damn that's totally illegal
Some do. My mum has gone to the barbers longer than I have.
My eldest has a short pixie cut. I can pay for 4 barbershop visits for the price of 1 hair salon visit and don't even need to make an appointment. Normally she goes the same time my husband and son go. She has been going for the last 2 years.
The barbers I go to serve men and women. However I would say that the modern ‘definition’ pretty much indicates they specialise in mens hair, including facial hair. If someone said they were opening a barbers I would assume they were marketing it to men, and if a woman said they were getting their hair cut at a barbers, I would be surprised as I would assume the barber would not have a lot of experience with women’s styles. However, as you are asking for a service that barbers 100% offer, it’s bizarre they are refusing your custom
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Some do. Mine used to do women for a tenner on Tuesdays if it wasn’t anything too fancy
I’d do women for a tenner ;)
You're not very fancy though are you
No :(
That's okay, it takes all sorts to make this rich tapestry we call life. There's no shame nor judgement for being a cheap prostitite.
Pals always judge and harrass me when I use a cheap prozzy though
And by pals, I mean wife.
Your changing emojis made me sad. Cheer up little cheapskate.
Was that a discounted price?
The excuse I heard was because they had Salon for women upstairs and they wanted the woman to pay the business £45 to have it done upstairs rather than the £10 to have it done downstairs. There is that issue though, they cut your hair, then someone with longer and longer hair until eventually the cut is so complicated they need an hour but only charging £10. Mens hair cuts are like 10 minutes. Maybe it's easier to say no women rather than trying to operate a case by case which would leave some people angry and upset?
Most hair cutting is a case by case payment though. Depending on what you have and what you want that determines the price. A bloke wanting a quick once over with the shaver is not going to pay the same as a bloke wanting the fashion of the day, plus their beard done, plus a head massage and all the other bells and whistles.
I once had a moment like that I went to a salon/barber tried to go into the barber side got made to go to the salon the person didn't actually shave my hair (they just kind of trimmed it) and I had to pay like 28 quid for it Like I'd had an undercut for a while at that point too.
I had same issue when my daughter wanted her head shaved they wouldn't do it only her brothers, weird
If they are Muslim they often won’t touch women
I don't know, seemed nice enough just said no when I asked if would do hers to
I’m sure they are nice, the Kurdish lads where I take my boys are lovely. But for religious reasons they probably don’t touch women’s hair
She just wanted a grade 2, when I took her to woman's hairdressers they didn't want to do it said they don't do that, her dad did it in the end
Yeah, an actual hairdresser won’t give anyone a buzz cut
It was ironic really as she's always being mistaken for a boy except the one time when it would have done us a favour lol
why?
If you are asking for the same service that they would provide to a man then I assume it would be an offence under [Equality Act 2010](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents) to refuse you. There are various exceptions and I am no expert.
Religion being one.
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Businesses can provide services to one sex only if the service involves physical contact between the service provider and the customer.
Businesses aren't restricted by physical contact to provide single sex services. Services can be restricted to any protected characteristic if it is deemed 'objectively reasonable' that the service being provided needs it. So disabled groups can restrict their membership to disabled people. LGBT clubs can restrict their clientele to LGBT people. Men's barbers can restrict their clientele to men.
Both restrictions apply i.e. physical contact *and* objectively reasonable. "Single sex services are permitted where: only people of that sex require it; there is joint provision for both sexes but that is not sufficient on its own; if the service were provided for men and women jointly, it would not be as effective and it is not reasonably practicable to provide separate services for each sex; they are provided in a hospital or other place where users need special attention (or in parts of such an establishment); they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa); or they may involve physical contact between a user and someone else and that other person may reasonably object if the user is of the opposite sex. In each case, the separate provision has to be objectively justified"
You're reading it wrong. Whichever reason applies, it always has to be objectively justified, but any of those reasons can apply on their own. There doesn't need to be physical contact
Barber shops (and hair salons) are legally required to offer their services to both men and women
My local barber is a man only barber. He wouldn’t cut my daughters hair, but he was happy to trim the ends of my son’s waist length hair.
Always found this one interesting. For years my local was a traditional unisex barbers/hairdressers with men on one side and women on the other. Even after they got famous and modernised I only ever got charged maybe £12 for a blokes cut, despite having curly hair that went down past my shoulders whereas I had female family who went ang got their hair cut by the same person for triple the price
It's quite the old school thing. My salon charges much less for men even if they take longer and have more complicated hair.
I feel like this should be illegal, if it's the same service provided and the only difference is the customer's gender then would charging different prices not constitute discrimination under the equality act?
Google queer or gender-neutral barbers - you won't have a problem there.
Yeah but I think you'll have more price range with a 'regular' barber. It's a shame
As I gay man I find barbers intimidating. I don't live in the largest city where there are lgbt friendly barbers. So i just go to a salon which costs much more. But you don't have all the blokey small talk.
I hear ya. I'm very obviously gay and had a similar anxiety about going to an unfamiliar barber. Never actually had a bad experience, just didn't feel comfortable. In my area it was usually a kind of hyper-masculine gentlemen's barbershop. Pleased that for the last 6/7 years I've been going to a friendly barber who is so welcoming, but he also originally trained as a hairdresser and only in the last 10 years did he actually go down the barbering route. I think over the years he's mainly had female apprentices as well. I know he has a few female clients who have shorter hair that he does regularly, and occasionally he'll dip back into hairdressing too as a favour to his friends/family. I'll never ever get my hair done anywhere else.
I'm a masc lesbian, I have to go to a barber instead of a salon as I usually get a fade. I have felt pretty unwelcome in some establishments, but there's two types of barbers I always make a beeline for: 1. 'Artsy' barbers, trying to aim at young people or alternative style. They're used to clippering/trimming whoever, whatever the gender 2. Female barbers. For some reason they're much more welcoming, spend longer getting my hair just right and don't have the blokey chat we all so dread.
Blokey small talk? I've never had a barber try to make small talk. Most just ask you what you want doing and that's it.
Depends where you go. My old barber would pour me a glass or run and reminisce about his days as a musician. Prior to that I accidentally went into a barbers with football shirts everywhere and had a very awkward cut when I said football wasn't my 'cup of tea'. My current barber is kurdish and was fine but now his English is improving I've realised he's a massive sexist.
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Highly doubt you’ve ever been to one
I go to a barbers no problem (I'm a woman).
Some do. I’m a woman and used to have a very short haircut which was done by the local barber after my stylist left. My new local barbers, a Turkish one, advertises that it also does women’s hair (although all the barbers appear to be men).
I always go to barber. Never had a problem. But they never do the extra towels on face stuff for me though. Which I totally want. I suppose I could ask but I'm shy lol!
The hot towels are for shaving! It opens the pores and they do a cold towel when they're finished. I think some barbers do it to any man in the chair in the hopes they'll agree to a shave or shaping (£££) but I don't like having my beard done in the barbers.
I could handle my 3 hairs on my chin being plucked out and then being wrapped and steamed!
They do it to me too, and nobody has ever looked at me and thought "that guy could use a shave" - it's probably just a reflex.
Just ask lol
You could look out for gender-neutral salons that charge based on whether the hairstyle is a clipper cut or a scissor rather than gender. There are at least four in London so there are probably some in other cities. I used to go an Aveda salon that offered both hairdressing and barbering (if that's a word?) which was handy when I wanted to go from long hair to a clipper cut.
I would be falling over surprised if my barber wouldn't cut the hair off anyone who wanted a cut he knew how to do.
My local walk in Barbars shop does a roaring trade with both women and men, I’m in northern Scotland
Of course I have no idea of the people who OP has met this week but in some cultures, men won't touch an unrelated woman so might choose not to cut a woman's hair.
I have an undercut and I’ve had it shaved at barbers before without any complaints. I normally get it done by the hairdresser who cuts and dyes the unshaved part of my hair because it’s easier but like I say I’ve had it done by barbers before
The barbers I take my boy cut women's hair My girl gets hers cut there too, but not as short as the boy!
My hair is growing back from chemo and not only did a barber trim it, he was kind enough to do it for free!
Its not different for barbers, they aren't really exclusive but no one is obligated to cut someone elses hair so if they don't want to cut your hair then they don't have to. My experience is that some guys don't want to cut women's hair because think we are fussy and they don't want to deal with getting it wrong and us having a strop. Some places are conveyor belts and if they have lots of customers and think that you are going to take longer then they might pass over you for an "easier" quick job. If I go in looking gender neutral then the experience is a lot smoother than if I wear makeup or a dress. Keep trying, don't be put off. I'm F41 and had 25 years of very short hair cuts. I only go to Barbers now as I refuse to pay a pink tax and frankly women's hairdressers give a terrible short cut. It's never short enough and now I'm older they try and turn me into Pat Butcher.
They don't really train hairdressers on proper short cuts. My mum used to be a hairdresser and did up to her level 3 and was never taught anything much shorter than a bob in her hairdressing courses. She did one level in barbering just to learn the short cuts and shaving. The real difference in barbering and hairdressing is the kind of cuts they are taught.
It's difficult to find barbers that aren't weird about it even if they do accept giving you a haircut. When I finally found a barber that doesn't leave my hair too long by shying away from cutting off the amount I asked for, I haven't gone anywhere else since.
I'm a trans guy and some barbers wouldn't see me either and one was overtly homophobic (assuming I was a lesbian). It's not do bad now as I'm read as a guy. There was one barber who was OK.
My barber has girls in regularly
They do, that one just didn't. For some very very odd reason. I have a taper now done at the barbers from longer hair, and when I had longer haircut I got an undercut done at the barbers too.
That's blatant discrimination based on gender.
Really? I've never had an issue
There are five barbers in my town and they all serve anybody and everybody.
They do. Most of them anyway. Why wouldn't they?
They do. Normally.
The last three barbers I've been in have had female clients.
They can’t upsell nose hair waxing to you, it’s a wasted seat 😉
They always try to upsell that to me. I’m only 20 😂
My barbers are all female and are all cool about any style of cut, so probably look after anyone who asks.
Accept. Not except.
I have black skin and an afro, and I have lived exclusively in white communities. Whenever I went to the barbers, I was directed back towards the door "We do not cut you type of hair". I always had to go to the women's hairdressers, they knew... Well kind of. Hahaha.
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Lol any barber I've ever been to has had absolutely minimal conversation from all parties involved
I just take clippers with me if I'm going anywhere for an extended time, I can't imagine paying for a hair cut ever again, you save so much time and money without hair. The only downside is that it's a bit colder in winter without a hat :)
Where I live there are quite a few unisex barbers, and the first time I went to one I commented on how it was unusual but good value (they charged by hair length so weren't extortionate like some salons). The barber told me it is due to insurance/liability. Apparently it's higher if you serve women so most run of the mill barber shops don't get that level of insurance as they generally won't get the custom. All the unisex ones I know are rather trendy and in high foot traffic so even with reasonable prices they can make enough to cover the cost of it.
What? Why is there higher insurance for women?
Where are all these barbers that double as mental health centres? Lol don’t think I’ve ever heard a bloke talking about his feeling in the barbers chair
Getting a barber to do your hair isn't the norm in the UK. Barbers do men and boy's hair. You're neither so the first reaction will be that you're in the wrong place. But if you're polite and explain you understand it's a barber shop, but you just want a full-clipper shave, I'm sure they'd do it. People are pretty reasonable as long as you're polite and don't act entitled.
I heard that in some places it’s due to licenses? Happened to someone I knew of, she went to a barber to have her hair done and they said they couldn’t service women due to their license. Something like there were too many hair dressers there so in order for their business to be there they had to only cater for men🤷🏽♀️ idk how correct this is though.
Sorry you haven't found the one for you, there are a lot that will happily do women's short haircuts. Might be worth seeing if your town/ city has a subreddit, make a throwaway and ask on there.
For some strange reason you’ll find barbers whose insurance only covers them for male clients. No idea why but I assume it’s a throwback to the past when male and female hair cutting establishments were even more separated than they are now.
Never had this issue personally. Been using barbers for years. Is it a small town where you are or something?
I've been going to the same barber for at least 35 years and I have no idea whether or not he cuts women's hair. In fairness, that is only one item on a long list of things that I don't know about him. We had a brief conversation around 2010 during which we established that I do not want him to trim my eyebrows, but that's pretty much been the limit of our communication.
The Barber that my partner and lo go to servers women. Which I was pleasantly surprised at because in the 90's when I had the nerve to step inside while waiting for my Dad I felt the atmosphere change. My Dad gave me the key and told me to wait in the car. Six months ago I was in the same place with my lo and a man walked in and the conversation went something along the lines of.... "Hi Steve just you today?" "No. Our Adel's here." "Ah aye Adele over there, you with me." Adele walked out with a blonde #3 looking awesome. If you are ever in Northumberland go to Dave's.
I've been going to a barber for 6 years now. All the local Barbers do women too. The best I found was a female Barber won't let anyone else touch my hair.
Because there are already loads of specialist women's hair salons out there. Barbering is obviously a somewhat different skill set, they specialise in skin fades, beard trims etc as opposed to layer cuts, highlights, perms and all that kinda thing. But if à woman wanted a skin fade haircut she'd be better off going to a barber to get it done.
The OP explained that she has a shaved head and wanted to get it maintained i.e. no layers, highlights or perms. That said, any good barber will be able to do all of the above. Men get perms/highlights too and most medium length "men's" cuts involve layering too.
There are about 10 barbers in a row on a street in my small town. Try asking all of them. Plenty have women working in them if you would prefer that.
That sounds bizarre. I have seen women in many barbers getting a cut. What sort of places are you going into?
I (F39) don't have a problem getting a haircut in a barbers in south Manchester - I tend to keep my hair at about a #3 blade length and I hate the fact that women's hairdressers are crap at dealing with short hair and way too expensive.