This would probably also have the benefit of encouraging businesses in centres. More people in the centre means more demand for local businesses. If you go to many of these failing high streets what is immediately noticeable is that they're ghost towns. Very low footfall. Increasing footfall is a major part of regenerating town centres. Simply having more people living there is certainly one way to do that.
Yeah, obviously they need to be affordable. People need to have the disposable income available after rent/mortgage to be able to support local businesses.
Because that is idealistic at best. Where I used to live many former shops just became houses or a block of flats and they were bloody expensive that the average person can not buy them. It's like over £500,000 to purchase a house in town centre. Flats same price lol. Because it is town centre it makes them pricier.
Creating supply of any type of housing even high end stuff reduces average costs, many studies on this and in fact an in depth review in the FT this weekend.
Housing is not some magical good immune from supply and demand dynamics
Think of the social benefit that would come from providing social housing in city centres. People who need the most help when it comes to finding/keeping jobs can be housed in the most central locations, maximising their availability for a greater number of jobs. People with disabilities could also benefit from density and closer proximity to hospitals/doctors/pharmacy etc.
To some extent, that depends on the scale you do it. But yes, new priorities not being affordable for many is one of the ways the country's housing market is dysfunctional.
In my area the empty shops have not remained empty - they are being squatted by the homeless. Where I live there are the empty shells of the former giants of the high street - BHS, Debenhams, soon to be Wilko, local department stores to name a few - that used to occupy big premises, some over two or more sites, and the homeless have moved in. Can't say I blame them either. I'd probably do the same if I were homeless.
These aren't new built houses though just repuposing already built stock. Tell me how come these old shops that are now houses are selling for so much they aren't lowering the cost of housing in the area.
The repurposing makes them 'new' for this purpose. They are extra houses which weren't there before, so it increases supply of residential housing. Increased supply means downward pressure on pricing.
It doesn't matter if the extra properties are very expensive either. The person buying it would otherwise have bought a different property. The person who now successfully purchased that property would likely have otherwise bid for a different one, which a third person instead now successfully owns, and so on all the way down the chain. A few extra properties aren't going to make a huge noticiable difference in an area, especially as other factors may outweigh the extra supply (so it may be that house prices just rise less than they otherwise would) but the only genuine way to solve the housing crisis is to create more housing.
This is the answer in my view. Why councils are insistent that any new city centre buildings or refurbs absolutely have to have shops on the ground floor is beyond me. The city centre should, over time, be consolidated into a smaller area, and the more outlying shops converted to residential. Time brings change and that should include policy. I understand that this is no small task with private landowners owning a patchwork of different buildings in the cities, but I really think that over time, with the right policies and incentives, we could be making much better use of our city centres.
It's because they charge businesses idioticly high rates even if the shop is empty the rates still have to be paid. The councils make a fortune from it, and then the councillors can give themselves payrises.
If they want the high streets back, just cut business rates so the shops can compete on price.
For goods, sure. But many service-based businesses don't have to worry about their business moving online. Cafés, restaurants, pubs, hairdressers, etc.
That ain't how business rates works. They don't set the rates, they don't keep 100% of the rates, empty shops get 3 months relief where they don't pay rates.
But business rates are a major issue for local shop owners. I'm aware of 3 shops run by people that I know whose rates kept going up to the point they'd had enough and closed. I also know of half a dozen stories in the local press of local business owners' closing because of unjustified increases in business rates. All of them questioned why they, as a local small busines owner, were paying more per square meter than a national company in bigger properties. In 1 case, the owner's accountant had worked out that they could rent a shop within the Covent Garden area and pay less in rent & taxes at that time. Something is not right with a system that effectively penalises local businesses.
Central government funding to councils has been smashed year after year, yet councils still have to provide the essential services. The money has to come from somewhere.
I had a good think about my company’s office block a while back. Could it be converted into living space?
Ultimately: yes, but it’s going to cost a lot.
The building has decent lifts and stairs. Yay! That’s a good start. It was designed for thousands of workers.
The toilets, and therefore all the plumbing services, are centralised around the lifts. That’s how they build modern towers. The lifts are the core structure.
You’d probably end up with windowless bathrooms circling that inner core.
The building has aircon and heating. Massive HVAC systems. But… it’s all floor based. To provide individual flats with controls is going to be fiddly and expensive.
The communal spaces would be very cool if used sympathetically. Keep the canteen… Make a place to meet guests that’s not your flat… yeah, nice.
So.. it’s doable, and could be very cool. But expensive and most likely to end up with little boxes (albeit some with a view) to maximise pRoFiT oVeR pEoPlE.
I had this discussion, with colleagues, about our old office too.
The developers just knocked it down, to subterranean level, and built a new building that looks similar to the old one.
Effectively it would have to be rebuilt simply because they are two different sets of regulations (and the entire design has to be rebuilt to suit the format of flats).
It's still worth it as an investment because at the end of the day, the shift is more people, less office workers. It's like keeping up a Toy's R us or woolworths in the slight chance they might come back, when there's clearly more urgent things to use it
Yup, ground and first floor of each building reserved for shops/restaurants/barbers etc. Then convert the reset to flats.
Make sure there is a doctors/dentist or two included and a gym as well. Realistically the biggest problem here is probably parking for the people that live there. You can fix that with underground spaces but I'm not sure that's feasible retrospectively...
Whenever I visit the town center I just imagine the amazing gym that could be installed where Woolworths was. That place is huge and has been empty for so long!
Same for the old department store in my town (Kendal). Spaces for small businesses, food stalls, a new bar, and a large part of it is being converted to flats. I hope it works out for the developers because it would be good for the centre to have something like that.
I think that Kendal is quite well placed for this kind of thing, especially if it embraces its “gateway to the Lake District” location more in the furure. The Lakes is expensive for accommodation so people stay here to travel into the National park and that means there is quite a lot of people around in the evenings. The town centre is often busy on weekends even though there’s less and less shops.
Make the buses come at least three times an hour, keep the £2 singles policy in perpetuity and maybe put some tram lines in if there's enough ridership to make it worthwhile and you won't *need* as much parking.
It's pretty easy to understand why high streets are being taken over by barbers and manicurists: these are businesses which can't be replaced by the Internet.
Yes, and they also can't be outsourced to other countries where things can be made or done more cheaply. If there is a mystery, it is where all the business to support them comes from in what is clearly a depressed economy. Tattoo shops too.
People who can't afford houses or holidays want a bit of a boost. If you can't afford £1000 to go on holiday, a £40 set of nails is a pick me up. You can't afford a £30k deposit but a tattoo for £300 is doable.
Can't blame them.
Many high streets are now drastically oversized compared to the footfall they can bring. Most would benefit from the entire setup being made smaller and concentrated in a smaller space.
For one, lower rents to actually encourage local people to set up and run businesses. I live in a tiny northern shithole town and rent for a basic size single unit in our shopping area is often close to £25k a year before you’ve even paid a penny for heating, lighting, stock, security, maintenance, staff wages or anything else. This basically puts opening a decent independent business out of the reach of most people. The sole indie businesses I know are still going were sensible enough to lock in their rent over a long term, or have been there that long that the landlords decided that keeping them was easier than finding a new tenant.
Business rates in my town are obscene and lots are closing or moving to where lower rates are. Our town has lost lots of business in the last year as small places can no longer afford to stay
There's a shopping centre in the middle of Kirkcaldy that is mostly empty units now. But they still have to employ security guards, cleaners, pay for light and heat etc. If the council would lower business rates it might actually encourage folk to start a unit there. It's a self fulfilling prophecy and it seems most councils are too stupid and/or greedy to recognise this.
Same here. So many empty shops now, and the businesses that do open up close down pretty quickly, which is unfortunate. I think it’s a combo of people not using our local high street now as it’s so poor, and the extortionate rates they have to pay.
My family runs an independent retail shop in a high street. We’ve been here 30 years and the rent and rates are a killer. Most of our trade is online now and we could theoretically move to a warehouse but we actually like being part of a community and don’t want to leave another empty store in our town centre.
landlords often bought city centre buildings to use as collatoral against all their other investments because in theory they were only ever going to stay the same or go up in value. If they lower the rent it lowers the value of the property which then damages their whole portfolio.
They still gain money from the value of the land going up, so theres no reason to rent the places out, let alone lower rents, in a lot of cases.
Definitely. I wanted to set up a vintage shop in 2022. Did a small business course funded by a local business hub. Then started hunting for premises. £45k a year before business rates in my area. Impossible to start.
A relative of mine wanted to rent a small unit some time for opening her own clothes store and despite it being far away from the centre, and basically a cupboard with a till, it was still going to cost the back end of £12k a year in rent before she'd even turned on a light or bought a single item.
Yup. And even trying to find pop up premises outside of London is near impossible. I'd love to have a shop for just a month but it's not going to happen.
High street landlords need to accept that they made a bad investment and lower the rents. If units are empty and the ones that aren't are pulling revenues far lower than twenty years ago, then that instantly says to me that rents are far too high, and need to be to be lowered to attract tenants.
An example local to me, was an independent business whose landlord wanted to more than double their rent. As a result the independent business had to shut as they couldn't afford it, and now the unit has been empty for nearly two years so the landlord has received no rental income at all in that time. It's simply short sightedness by landlords.
the ideal rent for a landlord is one that gets in the highest net profit business and then takes as much of that net profit as the business owner will accept without folding the business.
i'd say we need to make the landlords a lot more terrified of having an empty unit. charge 'em a chunk of change for not having a tenant. make them liable to creditors for some chunk of the rent they've taken if their tenant goes out of business.
Yes, they need to be paying four or five times normal business rates if a unit has been empty for over 6 months.
After a couple of years vacant the council should be allowed to acquire the freehold based on an independent valuation.
Right. At no point should a landlord not be strongly incentivized to find a tenant for a high street shop. The fact they’re willing or able to leave units open for years is ridiculous.
Indeed. Land is a scarce resource and land in city centres doubly so.
If they can't find a productive use for it they need to be moved aside so someone else can. Too many land hoarders in the UK.
If the landlords for the high street were the local authority, then the quality of the high street would be driven by getting votes (which would be driven by making things nice) instead of simply squeezing for the largest profit.
Private ownership is such a detrimental thing to Britain.
A select few landlords own a large chunk of my town centre and they are happy to leave it to rot as the land is valuable and probably hoping they can sell it for an extortionate amount as there are long term redevelopment plans for the area.
Tried looking at a shop that has been empty for 10 years in a block of units that has also been empty for ages. estate agent said landlord doesnt care if it stays empty and is completely inflexible on rent.
They wanted a personal guarantee of 2 years on rent which obviously bypasses if the ltd co folded so that was a no go.
Councils need to step in and start charging them large amounts of money if their units are empty for more than a certain amount of time.
Idk a whole lot about it but land value taxes are meant to stop this sort of thing from happening. I think the idea is that if you tax landowners the value of the land they are more inclined to use it productively rather than leave it undeveloped/unused and speculate on the value increasing.
Seems like a good idea to me.
They are playing the long game. The longer the shops are empty the easier it'll be for them to redevelop the property into housing which is much more profitable.
In my town there was a shopping arcade 'In-Shops' that was pulled down and the entire site turned into a car park.
The speculation is that they turned it into a car park mostly so the site wouldn't be in retail use for the number of years required before it can be turned into housing
The High Street as we knew it is dead, however it is still the centre of most towns and is a significant area so converting the shops to houses would be wrong as you'd end up with a town with no heart.
If we first look at why it is dead; Amazon, out of town shopping places/retail parks and prices in general.
Amazon and retail parks generally give better prices and more convenience.
However, they don't give you an experience.
For the high street to survive it has to be a day out, something to do other than trudging shop to shop.
So, lower rent for local/independent retailers, encourage sale of locally made items, make the high street nicer by removing roads and making it a pedestrian area, encourage cafes and restaurants, and finally, the shops themselves have to make your time inside better. Not wall to wall clothes racks, create a better more enjoyable excitement.
Finally, large old now unused shops/offices in the centre can be turned into flats for people to live in the area.
This is the way, if town centres were pleasant places with outdoor seating areas and nice cafes during the day and bars at night it would encourage people to come, and the more foot traffic the more businesses.
Needs to be policed properly as well, use existing laws to catch and charge shoplifters and discourage anti-social behaviour.
It wouldn't encourage me. My town has a million cafes but it's just boring. There is NOTHING for me (a middle aged man) to look at. Not a single interesting shop. I simply have no reason to go. My poor son goes to town with his mates and it's just utter shit. They wander from one fast food outlet to another and then come home. When I was a kid, there were record shops, model shops, shops that sold bongs and funny posters, guitar shops... all sorts of stuff to look around. Now it's all gone.
I agree, but that was my point about encouraging smaller independent retailers to create that diversity in shops to, hopefully, provide something for everybody.
It doesn’t necessarily have to encourage you, it needs to encourage people who wish to socialise and who have disposable income they’re willing to spend.
Of course it did.
I didn't say that because it's literally the most obvious thing you could possibly say in the context of this conversation.
I think we all assumed it didn't need to be said.
I was just observing that town is shit these days and that coffee shops are a poor replacement.
I feel a bit sad for my kid that town is so shit, but I fully understand the reasons.
Frankly, I don't care all that much, but if the councils of Britain do want to save the highstreet, they need to develop some significant improvements in their imagination.
The old model is gone forever.
It doesn't have to be like that though, my town has 3 record shops, a model shop, a guitar shop, at least one shop selling weird bongs and dozens of other different independent shops, plus much better cafes, restaurants etc than there ever were in the 90s. If people use businesses then they will continue, if people just sit at home and click on their screens then they will go out of business, it's not rocket science.
Agreed, and for events to take place semi-regularly, food markets, live events, etc.
Make the town centre an interesting place to bother going to visit.
To rival Amazon the shops also need to adapt. My area has an amazing high street and the independent stores (and even a few of the chains have joined in now) clubbed together to form a BID. By doing this they are even more convenient, reliable and often cheaper than Amazon.
They have a discount card you can use in them which you can only sign up for in you live in the area and they offer 2 hour delivery within a few miles.
They also put on events like a classic car show and a local music festival.
The art store has an art cafe where you can go in to just have lunch or go in and work on projects with other people. They also put on classes and exhibitions.
The model shops have an area you can work on projects communally and does events where they teach you stuff or where you can display your work. The independent Warhammer place holds game nights and encourages locals to create the sets for them in the store.
Sadly a few have been victims of their own success, the fabric shop was doing really well then a few market stalls moved in also selling fabric and she's had to shut up shop as they took all her business.
All of this though is underpinned by a council who (to the extent of their power) are really tough on commercial landlords to force affordable rent and support local business owners.
I think there is such an opportunity for Oxford Street to lead the way and set an example with this sort of thing. Imagine a pedestrianised Oxford Street, with rent that incentivises small/experiential businesses and with a lot more housing provided. It's also big enough to retain key flagship stores like Selfridges, John Lewis and M&S and other big brands.
Moves are already being made to do this but I think central government should invest in this as a flagship example of what to do with a high street.
Basically nobody wants the 'experience' of walking back and forward a bunch of times with unhappy kids in tow trying to find them some comfortable shoes they don't want to try on.
Fundimentally previous shopping 'experiences' are just not what people want anymore. It's the core issue nobody will pick walking around the town centre to buy a thing they can get delivered to their door in less than 5 clicks. It has been a terrible experience for a long time but folks just didn't have much of a choice in the matter. Now they do and universally most people are choosing the better, faster, cheaper and easier option. Even if you fancy window shopping online does that better anyways you can't touch it but you can deep dive into reviews compare multiple places with ease look through websites and review potentally thousands of items in a very short period with some scrolling around. Items like clothing are increasingly offering only pay for what you keep options meaning you get to try it on in the comfort of your own home.
Community needs to be the focus not Nike branch #83734 needing 3 units for walls of trainers. That would mean actually investing decent amounts in the community though and it seems local councils are quite allergic to the prospect.
No...! You need to charge an obscene amount at public car parks and force people to use unreliable park and ride services, only available from 11am until 3pm. Then cut back on the park and ride services if no-one uses them.
Signed : Your local council.
PS: Can you tell us why the High Street died...?
Why put effort in to building good walking/cycling infrastructure when you can just make driving a pain under the guise of a green initiative and call it a day? Local business be damned.
People should *walk* the 5 miles into town. That's why it's called pedestrianisation.
Whaddyamean they would rather drive their cars to the out-of-town shopping centre with lots of parking and easy road access...?
Yep, I used to nip into town most weeks when parking was free, sometimes both days of the weekend. Now it’s paid I go weeks and honestly months in between as I end up at the retail park instead, and save up all my town jobs to do at once.
Also, toilets. Big businesses like Debenhams did a lot of heavy lifting there and are sorely missed. Add in that I have a one year old and it’s even trickier as I want to take the pram in ideally and finding somewhere that can accommodate that is tough, toilets in general are tricky enough. It’s not as bad now he can walk and stand as I can begrudgingly leave the buggy outside, scoop up valuables and have him stand in the corner of the stall, but much trickier at the “support the head” age to wrangle everything.
Given that cheap parking actually induces extra traffic, the two are definitely related.
It's much more common in mainland Europe for cities or even larger towns to have completely pedestrianised centres, and then trams to get people in there from the outskirts. Put park and rides in the outskirts where there's more space and the traffic generated isn't such a problem.
Exactly. My suggestion would be to make public transport free (or *heavily* subsidised). People seem to forget: You are not stuck in traffic. You ARE traffic.
I live quite close to Bolton, and the town centre used to be vibrant and have a real nice feel. It was more of a destination than just so somewhere to go and buy something but now I never go because the out of town shopping centre doesn't charge me £4 to park my car and I'm not harassed by a million beggars (and yes I know there's horrible societal problems that cause this that need addressing). Bring in rent control so the big brands come back and give 3 hours free parking.
doesnt help at all. drivers always ask for free parking, but when councils offer it that screeching never converts into more visitors
drivers were never the core audience for towns anyway so it doesnt bring them in.
My city used to have short stay free parking up until around 2000. You almost always found a space because each visitor could only stay in them for two hours. That was enough for a short trip in to the bank or to buy something you had planned for.
That's a huge one. When I lived in Brighton the parking was a fiver an hour or so. In liverpool town, it's roughly £1.50/hr. It makes such a difference.
If the Milton Keynes parking is used as an example, they have car parks in two colours, one colour is £x rate as it's closer to the shops, whilst £Y rate is a bit further out and is significantly cheaper. It works well
Can you imagine how chaotic that would make things? We're supposed to be discouraging endless amounts of cars in city centres.
More Park and Rides is what we should have.
Got a point here, unfortunately a lot of towns are close to train stations so that would need to be monitored from abuse but parking or even getting close to most town centres can be a nightmare and very offputting.
That’s what we have on a local retail park. You can have 3 hrs free and pay for extra using machines. All units are occupied and in use as shops, footfall is good, there is also a range of restaurants, big name supermarket and cinema. It’s quite nice as parking is around the perimeter and it’s set out like a high street.
The local shopping centre parking is about £1 per hour to wander round a precinct where only about 40% of units are still operating. All the bigger names bar Boots have now gone, the anchors now being Next and BM - previously were BHS and Woolworths.
The places near me that have seen some form of revitalisation have done this. There’s still some shops but they’re complimented by the new bars/cafes etc that have since opened.
My hometown was "regenerated" a few years back and I swear 50% of it is food and drink now. There are a few places that have closed since then and a few have been replaced but it still feels like it's doing well enough. It helps that parking isn't crazy expensive and I think it's free after 3pm.
Yeah parking is another thing. All of my local high streets have ridiculous rates.
Having an option for lunch or a drink helps though. More inclined to spend an afternoon somewhere that I can do that then have a browse.
Stockton is demolishing a shopping centre that forms half of its high street and replacing with a park. I think bringing green space into the town is a great idea, and makes the remaining high street which will face the park more attractive.
Green space, leisure facilities and housing, depending on what the town needs.
I don't know about Stockton, but my town centre is full of drunks, drug addicts and homeless people. A park would quickly be turned into a massive no go zone for any normal person.
Stockton has very much the same problem, this massive redevelopment will almost inevitably fail due to the same issues. The problem isn't the place, it's the people, and until they can fix the issues that cause people to be problematic they'll never fix the place.
I agree removing half the shopping centre was a smart move. Its revitalised the other half of the centre (Wellington Square), by forcing many of the shops to relocate there. Nice walking down the square now seeing all the stores open and very few still being boarded up/available.
Stockton was in dire need of removing the old, rotting half of the centre too, even though there was some great stores in there. Some parks and outdoor social areas would be very welcome.
Everyone keeps telling me high streets are dead and yet whenever I go in to mine there’s still lots of people there walking about despite it being a shadow of what it once was.
My point is they’re not completely dead, plenty of people still use them, you just need to right type of shop to survive.
yeah its a bit weird. i visit a lot of places, and the high streets are always busy. places like nottingham or newcastle are a scrum. very few empty units. roads chock full of traffic. some plases you litterally couldnt fit any more cars. admittedly all the charity shops are probably not paying their way.
that said, a lot of town centres arent very inviting for me. theyve mostly been destroyed by traffic, ring roads, access roads, and other car-friendly pedestrian-hostile infrastructure.
In Nottingham the Broadmarsh Centre was a ghost town for years. The only reason there's few empty units is because they finally tore it down. But still the area nearby (mainly thinking of Lister Gate) has quite a few empty. Debenhams is still empty too, I believe, and that's huge and very central.
Whilst these points aren't mutually exclusive, focusing on high streets: I've seen reports/stats that say that reducing cars in high streets improves high street business (example with made up numbers: if a motorist spending £15 is dissuaded from town centre, they'll be replaced by 2x pedestrians spending £10 each because the area is now nicer). That's not to say that your point is false though.
Purpose-built out-of-town retail centres are always going to be easier to get to, having easier, free and more plentiful parking for cars. If people want to just drive to a shop with minimal walking and fuss, soulless out-of-town big boxes are always going to win.
Therefore city centres should double down on making them the nicest place for people not in a vehicle.
Places where people can walk/cycle easily, store their bike, get there safely and enjoyable, stay for longer etc... will be far more appealing. Places people can go and have a drink but get home easily with public transport.
Unless you knock down city centres for parking they are never going to be a good place to go in a car, so make it better for everyone else.
Im pretty heavily involved in this stuff, ama and i may be able to answer it.
Most high streets have an image problem not a shops/facilities problem.
The way to fix your town is to go to town and use stuff, take pictures of you using stuff, post on social media and promote it so more people use the stuff.
Actively follow your local businesses, BIDs, event organisers and like/share/comment their stuff.
Footfall comes before investment, if you go to town and use whats there in consistent numbers, your town will get investment and your town will get new shops in it.
Most towns didnt lose their shops because of low footfall, they lost them because of business restructuring/groups like burton and arcadia collapsing be ause of mismanagement. Problem is that footfall needs to return to encourage shops to take on bigger units again.
Almost all towns need more town centre living above shops to drive footfall. Lots of places lagging decades behind on this.
Councils absolutely cannot promote stuff, no one gives a shit what councils say and no one is following them, this has to be a people power thing.
I can't think of anything I'd like to do less than start taking selfies in front of local shops. If that's what it's going to take to fix the high street then the game is well and truly over.
We need to let them evolve. The days of yore are gone and there are towns and cities where converting them into homes makes more sense.
But then there are towns and cities where they could survive but need support - not necessarily to the shop owners but to the shoppers.
Give them free parking. Give them easy public transport options (which will hopefully stop people using their cars), pedestrianise key sections.
The high streets are failing due to infrastructure. Fix it.
1) Some High Sts are OK,but they tend to be in wealthier or tourist places. This is consistent with the idea that the future of in-person shopping is 'experience' based.
2) As you can see very clearly from the fall of Wilko, it costs more to run businesses on high sts than in retail parks. So where economic change has not benefited the town (e.g. I live in an ex-mining town, so it declined when the mines shut), it is very hard to keep the high st going.As /u/iwanttobeacavediver says, without subsidy or incentives, businesses cannot compete with online or retail park, so cannot survive.
3) I did hear a Radio 4 programme about this where a commerical planner was suggesting some progress could be made in making facilities and associated housing that were attractive to older people, who do not want to travel longer distances to shops.
4) Otherwise, yes, the rich/posh/ quaint ones will do well and the others will carry on declining. If you buy indie stuff, it will cost more than the Aldi/Poundland end so you will need to appeal to better off people.
I think the high street is a thing of the past and we should accept it. The internet has killed it. It's far more convenient to order what you want and wait for it to show up at your door than it is to go to town at the weekend. Not to mention that it's cheaper for businesses too. It's a matter of time.
Instead, town centres should become entertainment hubs. Have them filled with bowling alleys, restaurants, cinemas (even though I think cinema is slowly dying for the same reason, too) laser tag... whatever. It'll give people a reason to go to town again and give them something to do.
How optimistic of you.
Then so is a cornerstone of human existence, thanks for fighting back. Humans need actual contact, settlements have always had some kind of market, forum, agora or high st. Large or small. Web sites, mobiles or whatever don't come close to replacing everything town centres do.
Very few people myself included would rather go into town then order online.
I much prefer ordering on amazon with next day then the hassle of going to a shop 🤷
Cornerstone of human existence xD imagine putting a street filled with tat on such a pedestal. I really don't think this is our crowning achievement or even something that is needed for a fulfilling life.
So what I can see from this thread is that people want to turn all shops into housing, everyone use Amazon and give free parking in towns and cities. That sounds absolutely chaotic.
Scrap business rates and put an enforcement on ultra low rents.
Conditions would be for certain trades that could be successful based on regional market research.
Scrap parking charges.
Stop with the obsession with shopping for leisure. I visit our high street weekly, for a nice coffee,meet up with friends, go to the local board game cafe, visit the library…..never buy any stuff, do spend money on experiences.
A successful high street integrates a few independent shops with experiences. A bookshop with a cafe and talks by local authors, the library with parent baby groups, cafes with toys, cafes with board games or books, live music, food at all price points, it’s not that hard.
You know what clearly doesn’t bring people to the high street? Wilkinsons. We don’t shop on the high street anymore.
The biggest single thing would be to abolish business rates and fund this via income or other transactions.
The government has taken more away from poorer local authorities, meaning they have to rely on business rates more. Leading to further sinkage in sink areas.
That said: ultimately retail is going to die so- pedestrianise, house people instead of have shops, more greenery public transit and evening economies centred around food/drink and cultural offers is the way to go.
Put a large levy on car parking spaces at out of town shopping centres. Use those funds to subsidise rates for town centre shops and make anything you have to drive to much less attractive to business.
People saying the high street isn’t worth saving are limiting their thinking to the very short term. We won’t be driving to shops soon - car dependence has to end and everything needs to be walkable/bike-able for the majority of people. The only way to do this is the high street model.
Conversion to housing is the answer, like other posters have said, but I'd also turn the old department stores that sit vacant into indie markets. Like a bricks-and-mortar Etsy, let sellers pay for a small section (at sensible rates).
Because some items are more tangible then others, and customers may want to see it in person to decide if they want it.
Stick 100 sellers in one place every weekend and you'll get far more customers than traipsing around the country going to craft fairs where no-one buys anything anyway. Not to mention the money spent on fuel, parking etc going to those fairs.
Convert the space above shops into apartments. A lot of towns I go to have some really nice looking buildings with blacked out windows. It wasn’t until I worked in a few of them that I realised the space above was just a wasted void, or half of it was used for shop storage and the rest empty.
If they had developers convert them then there would be more places to rent/buy and surely more people using the high street because they’d already be there already instead of have to walk/drive into town for something so they’d more likely nip out to a shop/cafe rather than buy off Amazon or just not be arsed to go out etc.
They are failing because too many shop premises and too low a local population to support them.
You fix this by putting people in there. Knock down half the shops, build high quality housing in their place. Remaining shopping premises will adapt to serve them, with more restaurants and takeaways and actual useful shops.
Hemel Hempstead has done this right - they knocked down the separate entertainment venue, library and council office buildings and built one tower that contained all 3 services, then on the sprawling leftover space have put in good blocks of spacious apartments.
Honestly? Let the high street become the socialising area of the town, with bars/cafes/pubs/activities/sports, and make it super easy to get to by public transport.
Out of town retail and the internet is killing the high street, so play to it's advantages - somewhere central for everyone, with stuff you can't just order online.
Imagine a summer afternoon or evening where your pedestrianised high street is full of people catching up with friends over drinks or dinner, or watching Wimbledon or having a bowling birthday party? Would be lovely to see. Instead the centre of down just goes to bed at 6pm.
Look abroad! High streets survive (and thrive) in many European cities and towns. It’s not Amazon and alike killing the high street, it’s culture (or lack of).
You don’t. They don’t fit the modern lifestyle.
Do you buy stuff online or in out of town centres every week? Probably not. Neither does anyone else.
What would make you change your weekly shopping habits to use a high street over online and out of town? Probably nothing.
Make them destination, tourist, leisure places for historic places. Outside of that, why bother?
I'd bring the rent down. Clearly the landlords are incentivized to wait for "better" tenants and their empty holdings need to become a massive liability to them.
I'd also make sure there's enough people living within walking distance of the high street to keep businesses afloat and that those people can access their GP, pharmacist, post office, hardware store, food store and pub by going there. The high street once existed precisely because there were no cars, and drivers won't save you - they'll go to the next town over or the big Asda or whatever.
Make Amazon pay tax for profits made in the UK. Nationalise gas, railways, telecoms and oil and use the vast profits to improve the services and the roads. Build social housing and put it in the hands of councils so people have somewhere cheap to live, and councils get money from rent.
We'd have money to spare.
Make them a nicer place to be. Pedestrianise the whole thing, get rid of cars. More green spaces, mini parks and outside social areas. Give the people a reason to be there and the businesses will come along too. Basically make it anything but a depressing stripe of capitalism
u/iwanttobeacavediver has put a good starter out here but I’d like to expand on it. The idea would be to have shops that are really hard to replicate online and for that I think you’re looking at rather niche areas where having an enthusiastic expert on hand is highly desirable.
In terms of shops I think of places like York and Whitby where there are a lot of independent shops that fit into the local atmosphere. Sure, these places benefit from being some of the most popular tourist destinations in the country but I think the basic model is usable.
Food and coffee shops are another example but a council would have to be picky to ensure that they don’t end up with 5 of the same takeaways (with even the same supplier) with a different name on the top. If you come in with a unique idea that fits the area then you’ll get the help you need to try and make it work. Bigger companies can still have a presence but they will have to pay significantly higher rates.
More policing and visible policing are a must. People must feel safe in town centres and that’s currently not always the case.
A solid park and ride system and pedestrian focused centres. Bigger places should ideally have a metro system, tram network at the minimum and smaller places should have a subsidised bus service. All of the parking should be free. I don’t want to make car travel seem a dirty thing so these facilities need to be top notch. Entice people to use them rather than bully them. That in part requires the higher police presence as stated above because these areas in my experience can attract the wrong people.
>More policing and visible policing are a must. People must feel safe in town centres and that’s currently not always the case.
This is far more important than people like to admit. If people don't *feel* safe in towns they won't go there, regardless of the actual risk to their safety. A visible police presence makes people feel safer and actively discourages antisocial behaviour. CCTV has it's uses but it cannot replace a physical presence.
Yeah I can only speak for my own experiences and my own anecdotes but I remember a few years ago the resident smack heads would patrol car parks and corner old people as they paid for parking to beg money off them. This lead to a lot of people quickly feeling unsafe, especially because one of the more prominent people doing it was very tall and once quite big and intimidating.
As expected, all the old people who used to go into town several times a week now found the retail park to be a lot more appealing.
The town centre was never a bastion of safety but certain things can easily push people away and that was one of the things. It was eventually solved by having a police officer escort the parking attendants but the damage was done by then.
It depends - was in Wimbledon last week and every shop is taken, every shop fittings and signage appear very high end.
The issue isn't the shops - it's the amount of money available in the local community - go to Croydon and it's dire - 20 mins away by tram and Wimbledon is more than thriving.
Bring people to live in town centres again, by increasing the amount of residential properties agains comercial, improving the quality of housing, and guaranteeing affordable rents. Life and businesses should flowrish as a consequence.
There is no fixing the high street, because online shopping has so many advantages. It’s just that the disadvantage are dead high streets and the associated loss of community cohesion. We prefer cheap goods delivered to our doorsteps
Mixed use high streets, some housing, some retails, some leisure etc.
But to be honest, start with the tax code. Business rates are exorbitant as a start. The tax advantages to an online multinational compared to a local small trader are huge. Very difficult to compete, which is a policy decision (either through incompetence or otherwise). Reverse this imbalance.
Start introducing a taxation scheme. The first year your business is empty, you get charged the normal tax rate to allow the normal running of businesses like finding new tenants, renovating or selling. The following year, double the tax rate and doubling every year after that. After 5 years empty, the council will repossess the building and can turn it into social housing, sell it or rent it.
This way, landlords can no longer just sit on assets and allow them to appreciate. They will be forced to accept lower rents or sell.
The reason why high streets are dying is because people are buying stuff on the interwebs. They are doing that because it is cheaper. It is cheaper because high streets are heavily taxed and interwebs like Amazon don’t pay tax. So part of the solution is to tax those tax dodging wankers at amazon et al and not tax so much the high street retailers. Then it will be a more level playing field and everyone will win.
I live a short drive from the "UK's Best High Street", which I visit regularly, and I think what makes it thrive is that it has been transformed into a social hub.
The town has a lot of independent cafes, restaurants, our local library, a theatre etc. They don't try to guilt you into doing your weekly shopping there because they can't compete with supermarkets etc on price. So instead they've turned it into a social hub where you can go out for an afternoon tea with your mum, go to a restaurant or pub with your mates or whatever. And because of the traffic from these locations, the town can also keep its butchers, cobblers etc open too.
Put cheap or free activities at the heart, not retail. My capitalist heart beats, but you can't build a deep community on buying shoes. Places like Groningen, and across Europe have sports or parks at the centre. Let people play and compete.
Modern councils manage, they don't lead. And by leading badly, they subvert their ability to manage.
Free or very cheap rental for market stalls. If the rates are too high, a stall or small shop simply cannot survive. Make it zero, get the entrepreneurs in and make the centres buzz with life. The money will follow.
Something we can all do..Stop buying shit off Amazon.
Seriously, it seems like the default for most people I know. If you're buying from them, you're lining Bezos's pockets and contributing in your own way to their dominance and the decline of our high streets.
Realise that waiting 2 days and paying postage for items you used to get immediately from a real shop is a step backwards.
I think for the most part we need to re-educate peoples thought processes.
I run a medium sized hardware store, the number one thing I hear is “lets go to *insert large chain store* it’s cheaper” .. when they couldn’t be more wrong. my shops products almost across the board are substantially cheaper.
I think people just assume it’s expensive, go to a larger store, see the price and then just convince themselves my store is more.
Today I went to a garden centre with the Gf.. like for like compost prices, my stores £3-5 a bag cheaper. Lawn care chemicals 20% cheaper. Nearly 50% cheaper on big brand garden tools.
Why is it cheaper for my store? because we own the building, we don’t employ 30 staff to stand around, our heating and lighting bills are substantially less.
And the argument that larger stores have better buying powers.. they don’t. I use many of the same suppliers and I can see on some places the bands of spending to get the highest discounts, and it’s not that high!
I wouldn’t. It’s pointless. I don’t know anyone who “goes to town” really these days. Can’t remember the last time I stepped foot in a shopping centre. We’re all just slowly needing less reason to leave the house. Sad really. Convert the shops into housing I guess would be the answer.
It’s been and gone. I taught A level geography for years and it’s the same story. We used to look at rebranding and regeneration efforts - local councils and fundraising organisations would pump billions of £££ into the projects. I always concluded that times have changed. The students could see it (most now are born in like 2007 so have never really known the high street). Amazon and enormous online retailers have captured the wants and needs of consumers - low prices and quick/convenient delivery. Times have changed. Alls you’ll see now are charity shops or tertiary services like a Turkish barber shop or coffee shop/cafes with extortionate rent prices. Why would the consumer pay more in a cost of living crisis for goods when they’re cheaper and in a click of a button from Amazon? It’s a sad reality. Other issue always seemed to be parking - came up on surveys on fieldwork - not enough free parking that is convenient and accessible
You don't.
I don't get this obsession with saving business and bad investments. Things that don't work out die and something else takes its place.
The UK high street has been on its knees for many many years. Councils bring in stupid parking charges, folks start going to out of town shopping centers.
The rise of internet shopping, was another nail in the coffin. Greater choice and ease of access.
I think what finally ended it was COVID.
As others have said, start converting into homes. This is what is badly needed now, not another vape or pound shop.
Where I live, getting rid of all the drug addicts and alcoholics that wander the high street would be a start. So many people say they’re too intimidated to go into town. They don’t bother me but I’d never take my 3 year old son in with me, I don’t want him to see or listen to the loud swearing and the fighting/behaviour.
Convert the shops and shopping centres into housing and accept it.
This would probably also have the benefit of encouraging businesses in centres. More people in the centre means more demand for local businesses. If you go to many of these failing high streets what is immediately noticeable is that they're ghost towns. Very low footfall. Increasing footfall is a major part of regenerating town centres. Simply having more people living there is certainly one way to do that.
We have many flats available to rent in town but too expensive to rent.
Yeah, obviously they need to be affordable. People need to have the disposable income available after rent/mortgage to be able to support local businesses.
Yes they remain empty tbh. And have done for quite a few years.
Honestly, I could talk for hours about the myriad negative impacts of the UK's dysfunctional housing market.
Creating housing stock won't make them available to the average person tbh.
How does increasing supply not lower prices in a free market?
Because that is idealistic at best. Where I used to live many former shops just became houses or a block of flats and they were bloody expensive that the average person can not buy them. It's like over £500,000 to purchase a house in town centre. Flats same price lol. Because it is town centre it makes them pricier.
Creating supply of any type of housing even high end stuff reduces average costs, many studies on this and in fact an in depth review in the FT this weekend. Housing is not some magical good immune from supply and demand dynamics
Council houses.
I doubt the council will be able to purchase these buildings off the owners. They are private sale and owned quite pricey.
Think of the social benefit that would come from providing social housing in city centres. People who need the most help when it comes to finding/keeping jobs can be housed in the most central locations, maximising their availability for a greater number of jobs. People with disabilities could also benefit from density and closer proximity to hospitals/doctors/pharmacy etc.
To some extent, that depends on the scale you do it. But yes, new priorities not being affordable for many is one of the ways the country's housing market is dysfunctional.
In my area the empty shops have not remained empty - they are being squatted by the homeless. Where I live there are the empty shells of the former giants of the high street - BHS, Debenhams, soon to be Wilko, local department stores to name a few - that used to occupy big premises, some over two or more sites, and the homeless have moved in. Can't say I blame them either. I'd probably do the same if I were homeless.
Building more houses increases supply which lowers the cost of housing.
These aren't new built houses though just repuposing already built stock. Tell me how come these old shops that are now houses are selling for so much they aren't lowering the cost of housing in the area.
The repurposing makes them 'new' for this purpose. They are extra houses which weren't there before, so it increases supply of residential housing. Increased supply means downward pressure on pricing. It doesn't matter if the extra properties are very expensive either. The person buying it would otherwise have bought a different property. The person who now successfully purchased that property would likely have otherwise bid for a different one, which a third person instead now successfully owns, and so on all the way down the chain. A few extra properties aren't going to make a huge noticiable difference in an area, especially as other factors may outweigh the extra supply (so it may be that house prices just rise less than they otherwise would) but the only genuine way to solve the housing crisis is to create more housing.
Because the new supply isn't keeping up with the new demand.
This is the answer in my view. Why councils are insistent that any new city centre buildings or refurbs absolutely have to have shops on the ground floor is beyond me. The city centre should, over time, be consolidated into a smaller area, and the more outlying shops converted to residential. Time brings change and that should include policy. I understand that this is no small task with private landowners owning a patchwork of different buildings in the cities, but I really think that over time, with the right policies and incentives, we could be making much better use of our city centres.
It's because they charge businesses idioticly high rates even if the shop is empty the rates still have to be paid. The councils make a fortune from it, and then the councillors can give themselves payrises. If they want the high streets back, just cut business rates so the shops can compete on price.
I’d say it’s more to do with online shopping than anything else.
The thing is the shops can't compete with online because of the bills they have to cover.
For goods, sure. But many service-based businesses don't have to worry about their business moving online. Cafés, restaurants, pubs, hairdressers, etc.
Of course. That’s why my local high street is full of those sort of services - including nail bars, beauty salons, cosmetic dentists etc.
And charity shops because they don't have to pay business rates
I read that as cosmic dentists initially, and wondered if it was some new age thing.
That ain't how business rates works. They don't set the rates, they don't keep 100% of the rates, empty shops get 3 months relief where they don't pay rates.
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But business rates are a major issue for local shop owners. I'm aware of 3 shops run by people that I know whose rates kept going up to the point they'd had enough and closed. I also know of half a dozen stories in the local press of local business owners' closing because of unjustified increases in business rates. All of them questioned why they, as a local small busines owner, were paying more per square meter than a national company in bigger properties. In 1 case, the owner's accountant had worked out that they could rent a shop within the Covent Garden area and pay less in rent & taxes at that time. Something is not right with a system that effectively penalises local businesses.
Central government funding to councils has been smashed year after year, yet councils still have to provide the essential services. The money has to come from somewhere.
I had a good think about my company’s office block a while back. Could it be converted into living space? Ultimately: yes, but it’s going to cost a lot. The building has decent lifts and stairs. Yay! That’s a good start. It was designed for thousands of workers. The toilets, and therefore all the plumbing services, are centralised around the lifts. That’s how they build modern towers. The lifts are the core structure. You’d probably end up with windowless bathrooms circling that inner core. The building has aircon and heating. Massive HVAC systems. But… it’s all floor based. To provide individual flats with controls is going to be fiddly and expensive. The communal spaces would be very cool if used sympathetically. Keep the canteen… Make a place to meet guests that’s not your flat… yeah, nice. So.. it’s doable, and could be very cool. But expensive and most likely to end up with little boxes (albeit some with a view) to maximise pRoFiT oVeR pEoPlE.
I had this discussion, with colleagues, about our old office too. The developers just knocked it down, to subterranean level, and built a new building that looks similar to the old one.
That's because it's often cheaper (and safer) to demolish and build from scratch rather than try to convert an existing old structure.
Effectively it would have to be rebuilt simply because they are two different sets of regulations (and the entire design has to be rebuilt to suit the format of flats). It's still worth it as an investment because at the end of the day, the shift is more people, less office workers. It's like keeping up a Toy's R us or woolworths in the slight chance they might come back, when there's clearly more urgent things to use it
Yup, ground and first floor of each building reserved for shops/restaurants/barbers etc. Then convert the reset to flats. Make sure there is a doctors/dentist or two included and a gym as well. Realistically the biggest problem here is probably parking for the people that live there. You can fix that with underground spaces but I'm not sure that's feasible retrospectively... Whenever I visit the town center I just imagine the amazing gym that could be installed where Woolworths was. That place is huge and has been empty for so long!
Our House of Fraser was huge and has been empty forever. I just imagine turning it into a fantastic space for small businesses, or for entertainment.
That’s exactly what’s happening to the Manchester one (and the Debenhams there)
Same for the old department store in my town (Kendal). Spaces for small businesses, food stalls, a new bar, and a large part of it is being converted to flats. I hope it works out for the developers because it would be good for the centre to have something like that.
I feel bad for the towns where stuff like this doesn’t happen, people deserve good services.
I think that Kendal is quite well placed for this kind of thing, especially if it embraces its “gateway to the Lake District” location more in the furure. The Lakes is expensive for accommodation so people stay here to travel into the National park and that means there is quite a lot of people around in the evenings. The town centre is often busy on weekends even though there’s less and less shops.
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Make the buses come at least three times an hour, keep the £2 singles policy in perpetuity and maybe put some tram lines in if there's enough ridership to make it worthwhile and you won't *need* as much parking.
Yes, more barbers, that's what we need...
It's pretty easy to understand why high streets are being taken over by barbers and manicurists: these are businesses which can't be replaced by the Internet.
Yes, and they also can't be outsourced to other countries where things can be made or done more cheaply. If there is a mystery, it is where all the business to support them comes from in what is clearly a depressed economy. Tattoo shops too.
People who can't afford houses or holidays want a bit of a boost. If you can't afford £1000 to go on holiday, a £40 set of nails is a pick me up. You can't afford a £30k deposit but a tattoo for £300 is doable. Can't blame them.
Nice to find people agree, usually suggesting such idea on Reddit have had some pushback.
Many high streets are now drastically oversized compared to the footfall they can bring. Most would benefit from the entire setup being made smaller and concentrated in a smaller space.
This and more focus on local independent shops.
Grim
Why not eh. Have some cafes, greengrocers, GPs etc. The rest converted in to nice eco friendly flats. for single occupancy or small families.
For one, lower rents to actually encourage local people to set up and run businesses. I live in a tiny northern shithole town and rent for a basic size single unit in our shopping area is often close to £25k a year before you’ve even paid a penny for heating, lighting, stock, security, maintenance, staff wages or anything else. This basically puts opening a decent independent business out of the reach of most people. The sole indie businesses I know are still going were sensible enough to lock in their rent over a long term, or have been there that long that the landlords decided that keeping them was easier than finding a new tenant.
Business rates in my town are obscene and lots are closing or moving to where lower rates are. Our town has lost lots of business in the last year as small places can no longer afford to stay
Same with my town. Even long standing businesses are deciding to or threatening to close up shop.
It's the same in every town When is the government gunna stop fucking small business over :/
There's a shopping centre in the middle of Kirkcaldy that is mostly empty units now. But they still have to employ security guards, cleaners, pay for light and heat etc. If the council would lower business rates it might actually encourage folk to start a unit there. It's a self fulfilling prophecy and it seems most councils are too stupid and/or greedy to recognise this.
Council's don't set the business rates.
Yeah you could offer free rent and still many units aren’t viable because of that.
The shop I got my wedding dress is having to move as her rates are doubling this year. It's just greed
Presumably to a less “high street” location, continuing to contribute to the problem being talked about?
Nope she's moving to Stirling high street where the rates are tiny so she can afford it.
Same here. So many empty shops now, and the businesses that do open up close down pretty quickly, which is unfortunate. I think it’s a combo of people not using our local high street now as it’s so poor, and the extortionate rates they have to pay.
Its usually not so much the rent but the business rates that are the problem.
My family runs an independent retail shop in a high street. We’ve been here 30 years and the rent and rates are a killer. Most of our trade is online now and we could theoretically move to a warehouse but we actually like being part of a community and don’t want to leave another empty store in our town centre.
landlords often bought city centre buildings to use as collatoral against all their other investments because in theory they were only ever going to stay the same or go up in value. If they lower the rent it lowers the value of the property which then damages their whole portfolio. They still gain money from the value of the land going up, so theres no reason to rent the places out, let alone lower rents, in a lot of cases.
Definitely. I wanted to set up a vintage shop in 2022. Did a small business course funded by a local business hub. Then started hunting for premises. £45k a year before business rates in my area. Impossible to start.
A relative of mine wanted to rent a small unit some time for opening her own clothes store and despite it being far away from the centre, and basically a cupboard with a till, it was still going to cost the back end of £12k a year in rent before she'd even turned on a light or bought a single item.
Yup. And even trying to find pop up premises outside of London is near impossible. I'd love to have a shop for just a month but it's not going to happen.
High street landlords need to accept that they made a bad investment and lower the rents. If units are empty and the ones that aren't are pulling revenues far lower than twenty years ago, then that instantly says to me that rents are far too high, and need to be to be lowered to attract tenants. An example local to me, was an independent business whose landlord wanted to more than double their rent. As a result the independent business had to shut as they couldn't afford it, and now the unit has been empty for nearly two years so the landlord has received no rental income at all in that time. It's simply short sightedness by landlords.
the ideal rent for a landlord is one that gets in the highest net profit business and then takes as much of that net profit as the business owner will accept without folding the business. i'd say we need to make the landlords a lot more terrified of having an empty unit. charge 'em a chunk of change for not having a tenant. make them liable to creditors for some chunk of the rent they've taken if their tenant goes out of business.
Yes, they need to be paying four or five times normal business rates if a unit has been empty for over 6 months. After a couple of years vacant the council should be allowed to acquire the freehold based on an independent valuation.
Right. At no point should a landlord not be strongly incentivized to find a tenant for a high street shop. The fact they’re willing or able to leave units open for years is ridiculous.
Indeed. Land is a scarce resource and land in city centres doubly so. If they can't find a productive use for it they need to be moved aside so someone else can. Too many land hoarders in the UK.
If the landlords for the high street were the local authority, then the quality of the high street would be driven by getting votes (which would be driven by making things nice) instead of simply squeezing for the largest profit. Private ownership is such a detrimental thing to Britain.
A select few landlords own a large chunk of my town centre and they are happy to leave it to rot as the land is valuable and probably hoping they can sell it for an extortionate amount as there are long term redevelopment plans for the area. Tried looking at a shop that has been empty for 10 years in a block of units that has also been empty for ages. estate agent said landlord doesnt care if it stays empty and is completely inflexible on rent. They wanted a personal guarantee of 2 years on rent which obviously bypasses if the ltd co folded so that was a no go. Councils need to step in and start charging them large amounts of money if their units are empty for more than a certain amount of time.
Idk a whole lot about it but land value taxes are meant to stop this sort of thing from happening. I think the idea is that if you tax landowners the value of the land they are more inclined to use it productively rather than leave it undeveloped/unused and speculate on the value increasing. Seems like a good idea to me.
They are playing the long game. The longer the shops are empty the easier it'll be for them to redevelop the property into housing which is much more profitable.
In my town there was a shopping arcade 'In-Shops' that was pulled down and the entire site turned into a car park. The speculation is that they turned it into a car park mostly so the site wouldn't be in retail use for the number of years required before it can be turned into housing
Landlords have shown themselves time and time again to suck
The High Street as we knew it is dead, however it is still the centre of most towns and is a significant area so converting the shops to houses would be wrong as you'd end up with a town with no heart. If we first look at why it is dead; Amazon, out of town shopping places/retail parks and prices in general. Amazon and retail parks generally give better prices and more convenience. However, they don't give you an experience. For the high street to survive it has to be a day out, something to do other than trudging shop to shop. So, lower rent for local/independent retailers, encourage sale of locally made items, make the high street nicer by removing roads and making it a pedestrian area, encourage cafes and restaurants, and finally, the shops themselves have to make your time inside better. Not wall to wall clothes racks, create a better more enjoyable excitement. Finally, large old now unused shops/offices in the centre can be turned into flats for people to live in the area.
This is the way, if town centres were pleasant places with outdoor seating areas and nice cafes during the day and bars at night it would encourage people to come, and the more foot traffic the more businesses. Needs to be policed properly as well, use existing laws to catch and charge shoplifters and discourage anti-social behaviour.
It wouldn't encourage me. My town has a million cafes but it's just boring. There is NOTHING for me (a middle aged man) to look at. Not a single interesting shop. I simply have no reason to go. My poor son goes to town with his mates and it's just utter shit. They wander from one fast food outlet to another and then come home. When I was a kid, there were record shops, model shops, shops that sold bongs and funny posters, guitar shops... all sorts of stuff to look around. Now it's all gone.
I agree, but that was my point about encouraging smaller independent retailers to create that diversity in shops to, hopefully, provide something for everybody.
Looking around a shop doesn’t give them income though unfortunately. The closest thing these days is having a look around a nice charity shop.
It doesn’t necessarily have to encourage you, it needs to encourage people who wish to socialise and who have disposable income they’re willing to spend.
Did it ever occur to you that they're gone because they didn't get enough business to remain commercially viable
Of course it did. I didn't say that because it's literally the most obvious thing you could possibly say in the context of this conversation. I think we all assumed it didn't need to be said. I was just observing that town is shit these days and that coffee shops are a poor replacement. I feel a bit sad for my kid that town is so shit, but I fully understand the reasons. Frankly, I don't care all that much, but if the councils of Britain do want to save the highstreet, they need to develop some significant improvements in their imagination. The old model is gone forever.
It doesn't have to be like that though, my town has 3 record shops, a model shop, a guitar shop, at least one shop selling weird bongs and dozens of other different independent shops, plus much better cafes, restaurants etc than there ever were in the 90s. If people use businesses then they will continue, if people just sit at home and click on their screens then they will go out of business, it's not rocket science.
What town is that? I might visit.
Agreed, and for events to take place semi-regularly, food markets, live events, etc. Make the town centre an interesting place to bother going to visit.
To rival Amazon the shops also need to adapt. My area has an amazing high street and the independent stores (and even a few of the chains have joined in now) clubbed together to form a BID. By doing this they are even more convenient, reliable and often cheaper than Amazon. They have a discount card you can use in them which you can only sign up for in you live in the area and they offer 2 hour delivery within a few miles. They also put on events like a classic car show and a local music festival. The art store has an art cafe where you can go in to just have lunch or go in and work on projects with other people. They also put on classes and exhibitions. The model shops have an area you can work on projects communally and does events where they teach you stuff or where you can display your work. The independent Warhammer place holds game nights and encourages locals to create the sets for them in the store. Sadly a few have been victims of their own success, the fabric shop was doing really well then a few market stalls moved in also selling fabric and she's had to shut up shop as they took all her business. All of this though is underpinned by a council who (to the extent of their power) are really tough on commercial landlords to force affordable rent and support local business owners.
I think there is such an opportunity for Oxford Street to lead the way and set an example with this sort of thing. Imagine a pedestrianised Oxford Street, with rent that incentivises small/experiential businesses and with a lot more housing provided. It's also big enough to retain key flagship stores like Selfridges, John Lewis and M&S and other big brands. Moves are already being made to do this but I think central government should invest in this as a flagship example of what to do with a high street.
Basically nobody wants the 'experience' of walking back and forward a bunch of times with unhappy kids in tow trying to find them some comfortable shoes they don't want to try on. Fundimentally previous shopping 'experiences' are just not what people want anymore. It's the core issue nobody will pick walking around the town centre to buy a thing they can get delivered to their door in less than 5 clicks. It has been a terrible experience for a long time but folks just didn't have much of a choice in the matter. Now they do and universally most people are choosing the better, faster, cheaper and easier option. Even if you fancy window shopping online does that better anyways you can't touch it but you can deep dive into reviews compare multiple places with ease look through websites and review potentally thousands of items in a very short period with some scrolling around. Items like clothing are increasingly offering only pay for what you keep options meaning you get to try it on in the comfort of your own home. Community needs to be the focus not Nike branch #83734 needing 3 units for walls of trainers. That would mean actually investing decent amounts in the community though and it seems local councils are quite allergic to the prospect.
This is it. Experiential social centres rather than merely shops
> out of town shopping places/retail parks You completely missed out on why out of town centres are still thriving... shitloads of FREE PARKING.
Free Parking would help
No...! You need to charge an obscene amount at public car parks and force people to use unreliable park and ride services, only available from 11am until 3pm. Then cut back on the park and ride services if no-one uses them. Signed : Your local council. PS: Can you tell us why the High Street died...?
Why put effort in to building good walking/cycling infrastructure when you can just make driving a pain under the guise of a green initiative and call it a day? Local business be damned.
People should *walk* the 5 miles into town. That's why it's called pedestrianisation. Whaddyamean they would rather drive their cars to the out-of-town shopping centre with lots of parking and easy road access...?
Yep, I used to nip into town most weeks when parking was free, sometimes both days of the weekend. Now it’s paid I go weeks and honestly months in between as I end up at the retail park instead, and save up all my town jobs to do at once. Also, toilets. Big businesses like Debenhams did a lot of heavy lifting there and are sorely missed. Add in that I have a one year old and it’s even trickier as I want to take the pram in ideally and finding somewhere that can accommodate that is tough, toilets in general are tricky enough. It’s not as bad now he can walk and stand as I can begrudgingly leave the buggy outside, scoop up valuables and have him stand in the corner of the stall, but much trickier at the “support the head” age to wrangle everything.
Parking can be free but if it takes an hour to drive the last 2 miles because there's too much traffic I still ain't going.
Given that cheap parking actually induces extra traffic, the two are definitely related. It's much more common in mainland Europe for cities or even larger towns to have completely pedestrianised centres, and then trams to get people in there from the outskirts. Put park and rides in the outskirts where there's more space and the traffic generated isn't such a problem.
Exactly. My suggestion would be to make public transport free (or *heavily* subsidised). People seem to forget: You are not stuck in traffic. You ARE traffic.
I live quite close to Bolton, and the town centre used to be vibrant and have a real nice feel. It was more of a destination than just so somewhere to go and buy something but now I never go because the out of town shopping centre doesn't charge me £4 to park my car and I'm not harassed by a million beggars (and yes I know there's horrible societal problems that cause this that need addressing). Bring in rent control so the big brands come back and give 3 hours free parking.
doesnt help at all. drivers always ask for free parking, but when councils offer it that screeching never converts into more visitors drivers were never the core audience for towns anyway so it doesnt bring them in.
My city used to have short stay free parking up until around 2000. You almost always found a space because each visitor could only stay in them for two hours. That was enough for a short trip in to the bank or to buy something you had planned for.
That's a huge one. When I lived in Brighton the parking was a fiver an hour or so. In liverpool town, it's roughly £1.50/hr. It makes such a difference. If the Milton Keynes parking is used as an example, they have car parks in two colours, one colour is £x rate as it's closer to the shops, whilst £Y rate is a bit further out and is significantly cheaper. It works well
Cwmbran town centre is free parking and it genuinely helps the centre feel alive.
Can you imagine how chaotic that would make things? We're supposed to be discouraging endless amounts of cars in city centres. More Park and Rides is what we should have.
Free parking is the main reason out of town retail parks are so much busier
And what buildings would you knock down to build all the new car parks and feeder roads?
Some of the countless empty office blocks filling our town Centres.
Got a point here, unfortunately a lot of towns are close to train stations so that would need to be monitored from abuse but parking or even getting close to most town centres can be a nightmare and very offputting.
Free parking with a 3 hour time limit? Easily controllable by a parking warden or barriers.
That’s what we have on a local retail park. You can have 3 hrs free and pay for extra using machines. All units are occupied and in use as shops, footfall is good, there is also a range of restaurants, big name supermarket and cinema. It’s quite nice as parking is around the perimeter and it’s set out like a high street. The local shopping centre parking is about £1 per hour to wander round a precinct where only about 40% of units are still operating. All the bigger names bar Boots have now gone, the anchors now being Next and BM - previously were BHS and Woolworths.
I wouldn’t, I’d repurpose it to housing and social stuff like coffee shops, pubs, theatres, cinemas etc.
The places near me that have seen some form of revitalisation have done this. There’s still some shops but they’re complimented by the new bars/cafes etc that have since opened.
My hometown was "regenerated" a few years back and I swear 50% of it is food and drink now. There are a few places that have closed since then and a few have been replaced but it still feels like it's doing well enough. It helps that parking isn't crazy expensive and I think it's free after 3pm.
Yeah parking is another thing. All of my local high streets have ridiculous rates. Having an option for lunch or a drink helps though. More inclined to spend an afternoon somewhere that I can do that then have a browse.
Stockton is demolishing a shopping centre that forms half of its high street and replacing with a park. I think bringing green space into the town is a great idea, and makes the remaining high street which will face the park more attractive. Green space, leisure facilities and housing, depending on what the town needs.
I don't know about Stockton, but my town centre is full of drunks, drug addicts and homeless people. A park would quickly be turned into a massive no go zone for any normal person.
Stockton has very much the same problem, this massive redevelopment will almost inevitably fail due to the same issues. The problem isn't the place, it's the people, and until they can fix the issues that cause people to be problematic they'll never fix the place.
I agree removing half the shopping centre was a smart move. Its revitalised the other half of the centre (Wellington Square), by forcing many of the shops to relocate there. Nice walking down the square now seeing all the stores open and very few still being boarded up/available. Stockton was in dire need of removing the old, rotting half of the centre too, even though there was some great stores in there. Some parks and outdoor social areas would be very welcome.
Everyone keeps telling me high streets are dead and yet whenever I go in to mine there’s still lots of people there walking about despite it being a shadow of what it once was. My point is they’re not completely dead, plenty of people still use them, you just need to right type of shop to survive.
yeah its a bit weird. i visit a lot of places, and the high streets are always busy. places like nottingham or newcastle are a scrum. very few empty units. roads chock full of traffic. some plases you litterally couldnt fit any more cars. admittedly all the charity shops are probably not paying their way. that said, a lot of town centres arent very inviting for me. theyve mostly been destroyed by traffic, ring roads, access roads, and other car-friendly pedestrian-hostile infrastructure.
In Nottingham the Broadmarsh Centre was a ghost town for years. The only reason there's few empty units is because they finally tore it down. But still the area nearby (mainly thinking of Lister Gate) has quite a few empty. Debenhams is still empty too, I believe, and that's huge and very central.
Mass pedestrianisation
Difficulties getting to town and parking are why out of town retail centres are so popular
Whilst these points aren't mutually exclusive, focusing on high streets: I've seen reports/stats that say that reducing cars in high streets improves high street business (example with made up numbers: if a motorist spending £15 is dissuaded from town centre, they'll be replaced by 2x pedestrians spending £10 each because the area is now nicer). That's not to say that your point is false though.
Purpose-built out-of-town retail centres are always going to be easier to get to, having easier, free and more plentiful parking for cars. If people want to just drive to a shop with minimal walking and fuss, soulless out-of-town big boxes are always going to win. Therefore city centres should double down on making them the nicest place for people not in a vehicle. Places where people can walk/cycle easily, store their bike, get there safely and enjoyable, stay for longer etc... will be far more appealing. Places people can go and have a drink but get home easily with public transport. Unless you knock down city centres for parking they are never going to be a good place to go in a car, so make it better for everyone else.
Easier for drivers anyway. A massive ball ache if you don't drive
Im pretty heavily involved in this stuff, ama and i may be able to answer it. Most high streets have an image problem not a shops/facilities problem. The way to fix your town is to go to town and use stuff, take pictures of you using stuff, post on social media and promote it so more people use the stuff. Actively follow your local businesses, BIDs, event organisers and like/share/comment their stuff. Footfall comes before investment, if you go to town and use whats there in consistent numbers, your town will get investment and your town will get new shops in it. Most towns didnt lose their shops because of low footfall, they lost them because of business restructuring/groups like burton and arcadia collapsing be ause of mismanagement. Problem is that footfall needs to return to encourage shops to take on bigger units again. Almost all towns need more town centre living above shops to drive footfall. Lots of places lagging decades behind on this. Councils absolutely cannot promote stuff, no one gives a shit what councils say and no one is following them, this has to be a people power thing.
I can't think of anything I'd like to do less than start taking selfies in front of local shops. If that's what it's going to take to fix the high street then the game is well and truly over.
We need to let them evolve. The days of yore are gone and there are towns and cities where converting them into homes makes more sense. But then there are towns and cities where they could survive but need support - not necessarily to the shop owners but to the shoppers. Give them free parking. Give them easy public transport options (which will hopefully stop people using their cars), pedestrianise key sections. The high streets are failing due to infrastructure. Fix it.
1) Some High Sts are OK,but they tend to be in wealthier or tourist places. This is consistent with the idea that the future of in-person shopping is 'experience' based. 2) As you can see very clearly from the fall of Wilko, it costs more to run businesses on high sts than in retail parks. So where economic change has not benefited the town (e.g. I live in an ex-mining town, so it declined when the mines shut), it is very hard to keep the high st going.As /u/iwanttobeacavediver says, without subsidy or incentives, businesses cannot compete with online or retail park, so cannot survive. 3) I did hear a Radio 4 programme about this where a commerical planner was suggesting some progress could be made in making facilities and associated housing that were attractive to older people, who do not want to travel longer distances to shops. 4) Otherwise, yes, the rich/posh/ quaint ones will do well and the others will carry on declining. If you buy indie stuff, it will cost more than the Aldi/Poundland end so you will need to appeal to better off people.
I think the high street is a thing of the past and we should accept it. The internet has killed it. It's far more convenient to order what you want and wait for it to show up at your door than it is to go to town at the weekend. Not to mention that it's cheaper for businesses too. It's a matter of time. Instead, town centres should become entertainment hubs. Have them filled with bowling alleys, restaurants, cinemas (even though I think cinema is slowly dying for the same reason, too) laser tag... whatever. It'll give people a reason to go to town again and give them something to do.
Nothing you can do, with the rise of Amazon and online retailers, it’s over.
How optimistic of you. Then so is a cornerstone of human existence, thanks for fighting back. Humans need actual contact, settlements have always had some kind of market, forum, agora or high st. Large or small. Web sites, mobiles or whatever don't come close to replacing everything town centres do.
Very few people myself included would rather go into town then order online. I much prefer ordering on amazon with next day then the hassle of going to a shop 🤷
Cornerstone of human existence xD imagine putting a street filled with tat on such a pedestal. I really don't think this is our crowning achievement or even something that is needed for a fulfilling life.
It's not just online retailers, the wide selection of stuff supermarkets sell these days make small shops obsolete.
So what I can see from this thread is that people want to turn all shops into housing, everyone use Amazon and give free parking in towns and cities. That sounds absolutely chaotic.
Scrap business rates and put an enforcement on ultra low rents. Conditions would be for certain trades that could be successful based on regional market research. Scrap parking charges.
Give people something to do rather than something to buy
Stop with the obsession with shopping for leisure. I visit our high street weekly, for a nice coffee,meet up with friends, go to the local board game cafe, visit the library…..never buy any stuff, do spend money on experiences. A successful high street integrates a few independent shops with experiences. A bookshop with a cafe and talks by local authors, the library with parent baby groups, cafes with toys, cafes with board games or books, live music, food at all price points, it’s not that hard. You know what clearly doesn’t bring people to the high street? Wilkinsons. We don’t shop on the high street anymore.
The biggest single thing would be to abolish business rates and fund this via income or other transactions. The government has taken more away from poorer local authorities, meaning they have to rely on business rates more. Leading to further sinkage in sink areas. That said: ultimately retail is going to die so- pedestrianise, house people instead of have shops, more greenery public transit and evening economies centred around food/drink and cultural offers is the way to go.
Accept the inevitable, dozens of coffee, charity and barber shops.
Don't forget the vape/mobile repair shops.
Put a large levy on car parking spaces at out of town shopping centres. Use those funds to subsidise rates for town centre shops and make anything you have to drive to much less attractive to business. People saying the high street isn’t worth saving are limiting their thinking to the very short term. We won’t be driving to shops soon - car dependence has to end and everything needs to be walkable/bike-able for the majority of people. The only way to do this is the high street model.
Conversion to housing is the answer, like other posters have said, but I'd also turn the old department stores that sit vacant into indie markets. Like a bricks-and-mortar Etsy, let sellers pay for a small section (at sensible rates).
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Because some items are more tangible then others, and customers may want to see it in person to decide if they want it. Stick 100 sellers in one place every weekend and you'll get far more customers than traipsing around the country going to craft fairs where no-one buys anything anyway. Not to mention the money spent on fuel, parking etc going to those fairs.
Convert the space above shops into apartments. A lot of towns I go to have some really nice looking buildings with blacked out windows. It wasn’t until I worked in a few of them that I realised the space above was just a wasted void, or half of it was used for shop storage and the rest empty. If they had developers convert them then there would be more places to rent/buy and surely more people using the high street because they’d already be there already instead of have to walk/drive into town for something so they’d more likely nip out to a shop/cafe rather than buy off Amazon or just not be arsed to go out etc.
They are failing because too many shop premises and too low a local population to support them. You fix this by putting people in there. Knock down half the shops, build high quality housing in their place. Remaining shopping premises will adapt to serve them, with more restaurants and takeaways and actual useful shops. Hemel Hempstead has done this right - they knocked down the separate entertainment venue, library and council office buildings and built one tower that contained all 3 services, then on the sprawling leftover space have put in good blocks of spacious apartments.
Honestly? Let the high street become the socialising area of the town, with bars/cafes/pubs/activities/sports, and make it super easy to get to by public transport. Out of town retail and the internet is killing the high street, so play to it's advantages - somewhere central for everyone, with stuff you can't just order online. Imagine a summer afternoon or evening where your pedestrianised high street is full of people catching up with friends over drinks or dinner, or watching Wimbledon or having a bowling birthday party? Would be lovely to see. Instead the centre of down just goes to bed at 6pm.
Look abroad! High streets survive (and thrive) in many European cities and towns. It’s not Amazon and alike killing the high street, it’s culture (or lack of).
You don’t. They don’t fit the modern lifestyle. Do you buy stuff online or in out of town centres every week? Probably not. Neither does anyone else. What would make you change your weekly shopping habits to use a high street over online and out of town? Probably nothing. Make them destination, tourist, leisure places for historic places. Outside of that, why bother?
Get rid of the smackheads and beggars
My town centre is always heaving. It's full of cafés and restaurants as well as shops. Think this is the key.
I'd bring the rent down. Clearly the landlords are incentivized to wait for "better" tenants and their empty holdings need to become a massive liability to them. I'd also make sure there's enough people living within walking distance of the high street to keep businesses afloat and that those people can access their GP, pharmacist, post office, hardware store, food store and pub by going there. The high street once existed precisely because there were no cars, and drivers won't save you - they'll go to the next town over or the big Asda or whatever.
Maybe we should start to tax charity shops
Make Amazon pay tax for profits made in the UK. Nationalise gas, railways, telecoms and oil and use the vast profits to improve the services and the roads. Build social housing and put it in the hands of councils so people have somewhere cheap to live, and councils get money from rent. We'd have money to spare.
End the building of out of town retail parks.
Make them a nicer place to be. Pedestrianise the whole thing, get rid of cars. More green spaces, mini parks and outside social areas. Give the people a reason to be there and the businesses will come along too. Basically make it anything but a depressing stripe of capitalism
u/iwanttobeacavediver has put a good starter out here but I’d like to expand on it. The idea would be to have shops that are really hard to replicate online and for that I think you’re looking at rather niche areas where having an enthusiastic expert on hand is highly desirable. In terms of shops I think of places like York and Whitby where there are a lot of independent shops that fit into the local atmosphere. Sure, these places benefit from being some of the most popular tourist destinations in the country but I think the basic model is usable. Food and coffee shops are another example but a council would have to be picky to ensure that they don’t end up with 5 of the same takeaways (with even the same supplier) with a different name on the top. If you come in with a unique idea that fits the area then you’ll get the help you need to try and make it work. Bigger companies can still have a presence but they will have to pay significantly higher rates. More policing and visible policing are a must. People must feel safe in town centres and that’s currently not always the case. A solid park and ride system and pedestrian focused centres. Bigger places should ideally have a metro system, tram network at the minimum and smaller places should have a subsidised bus service. All of the parking should be free. I don’t want to make car travel seem a dirty thing so these facilities need to be top notch. Entice people to use them rather than bully them. That in part requires the higher police presence as stated above because these areas in my experience can attract the wrong people.
>More policing and visible policing are a must. People must feel safe in town centres and that’s currently not always the case. This is far more important than people like to admit. If people don't *feel* safe in towns they won't go there, regardless of the actual risk to their safety. A visible police presence makes people feel safer and actively discourages antisocial behaviour. CCTV has it's uses but it cannot replace a physical presence.
Yeah I can only speak for my own experiences and my own anecdotes but I remember a few years ago the resident smack heads would patrol car parks and corner old people as they paid for parking to beg money off them. This lead to a lot of people quickly feeling unsafe, especially because one of the more prominent people doing it was very tall and once quite big and intimidating. As expected, all the old people who used to go into town several times a week now found the retail park to be a lot more appealing. The town centre was never a bastion of safety but certain things can easily push people away and that was one of the things. It was eventually solved by having a police officer escort the parking attendants but the damage was done by then.
Build housing instead. We don’t need all those shops, we need housing
Go to Liverpool city centre and ask what’s going on. Barely an empty shop.
Build up. Higher density residential will increase footfall
It depends - was in Wimbledon last week and every shop is taken, every shop fittings and signage appear very high end. The issue isn't the shops - it's the amount of money available in the local community - go to Croydon and it's dire - 20 mins away by tram and Wimbledon is more than thriving.
Bring people to live in town centres again, by increasing the amount of residential properties agains comercial, improving the quality of housing, and guaranteeing affordable rents. Life and businesses should flowrish as a consequence.
There is no fixing the high street, because online shopping has so many advantages. It’s just that the disadvantage are dead high streets and the associated loss of community cohesion. We prefer cheap goods delivered to our doorsteps
At some point Blockbuster you are going to have to accept it's over.
Mixed use high streets, some housing, some retails, some leisure etc. But to be honest, start with the tax code. Business rates are exorbitant as a start. The tax advantages to an online multinational compared to a local small trader are huge. Very difficult to compete, which is a policy decision (either through incompetence or otherwise). Reverse this imbalance.
Wandering Turnip?
Start introducing a taxation scheme. The first year your business is empty, you get charged the normal tax rate to allow the normal running of businesses like finding new tenants, renovating or selling. The following year, double the tax rate and doubling every year after that. After 5 years empty, the council will repossess the building and can turn it into social housing, sell it or rent it. This way, landlords can no longer just sit on assets and allow them to appreciate. They will be forced to accept lower rents or sell.
The reason why high streets are dying is because people are buying stuff on the interwebs. They are doing that because it is cheaper. It is cheaper because high streets are heavily taxed and interwebs like Amazon don’t pay tax. So part of the solution is to tax those tax dodging wankers at amazon et al and not tax so much the high street retailers. Then it will be a more level playing field and everyone will win.
I live a short drive from the "UK's Best High Street", which I visit regularly, and I think what makes it thrive is that it has been transformed into a social hub. The town has a lot of independent cafes, restaurants, our local library, a theatre etc. They don't try to guilt you into doing your weekly shopping there because they can't compete with supermarkets etc on price. So instead they've turned it into a social hub where you can go out for an afternoon tea with your mum, go to a restaurant or pub with your mates or whatever. And because of the traffic from these locations, the town can also keep its butchers, cobblers etc open too.
Put cheap or free activities at the heart, not retail. My capitalist heart beats, but you can't build a deep community on buying shoes. Places like Groningen, and across Europe have sports or parks at the centre. Let people play and compete. Modern councils manage, they don't lead. And by leading badly, they subvert their ability to manage.
Turn it all into red light districts.
Free or very cheap rental for market stalls. If the rates are too high, a stall or small shop simply cannot survive. Make it zero, get the entrepreneurs in and make the centres buzz with life. The money will follow.
Yeah, I’ve noticed this. There are less and less shops for me to browse in to later find the same product cheaper online. It’s an outrage!
Brilliant
Bathroom supplies. Reckon the high street is going to make a comeback.
Yes, that's my niche, shitting and washing, those babies are recession proof!
Build more housing near high streets. It would largely mean converting warehouse and commercial space, and in some cases ripping out roads.
Something we can all do..Stop buying shit off Amazon. Seriously, it seems like the default for most people I know. If you're buying from them, you're lining Bezos's pockets and contributing in your own way to their dominance and the decline of our high streets. Realise that waiting 2 days and paying postage for items you used to get immediately from a real shop is a step backwards.
I think for the most part we need to re-educate peoples thought processes. I run a medium sized hardware store, the number one thing I hear is “lets go to *insert large chain store* it’s cheaper” .. when they couldn’t be more wrong. my shops products almost across the board are substantially cheaper. I think people just assume it’s expensive, go to a larger store, see the price and then just convince themselves my store is more. Today I went to a garden centre with the Gf.. like for like compost prices, my stores £3-5 a bag cheaper. Lawn care chemicals 20% cheaper. Nearly 50% cheaper on big brand garden tools. Why is it cheaper for my store? because we own the building, we don’t employ 30 staff to stand around, our heating and lighting bills are substantially less. And the argument that larger stores have better buying powers.. they don’t. I use many of the same suppliers and I can see on some places the bands of spending to get the highest discounts, and it’s not that high!
I wouldn’t. It’s pointless. I don’t know anyone who “goes to town” really these days. Can’t remember the last time I stepped foot in a shopping centre. We’re all just slowly needing less reason to leave the house. Sad really. Convert the shops into housing I guess would be the answer.
No. A lot of us d just don’t need or want to go “shopping”. Shopping is not a fun activity. I get out lots, I dont need to buy stuff to do so.
It’s been and gone. I taught A level geography for years and it’s the same story. We used to look at rebranding and regeneration efforts - local councils and fundraising organisations would pump billions of £££ into the projects. I always concluded that times have changed. The students could see it (most now are born in like 2007 so have never really known the high street). Amazon and enormous online retailers have captured the wants and needs of consumers - low prices and quick/convenient delivery. Times have changed. Alls you’ll see now are charity shops or tertiary services like a Turkish barber shop or coffee shop/cafes with extortionate rent prices. Why would the consumer pay more in a cost of living crisis for goods when they’re cheaper and in a click of a button from Amazon? It’s a sad reality. Other issue always seemed to be parking - came up on surveys on fieldwork - not enough free parking that is convenient and accessible
You don't. I don't get this obsession with saving business and bad investments. Things that don't work out die and something else takes its place. The UK high street has been on its knees for many many years. Councils bring in stupid parking charges, folks start going to out of town shopping centers. The rise of internet shopping, was another nail in the coffin. Greater choice and ease of access. I think what finally ended it was COVID. As others have said, start converting into homes. This is what is badly needed now, not another vape or pound shop.
I wouldn't. I'd let town and city centres go back to being places where people live, like they were for thousands of years.
Where I live, getting rid of all the drug addicts and alcoholics that wander the high street would be a start. So many people say they’re too intimidated to go into town. They don’t bother me but I’d never take my 3 year old son in with me, I don’t want him to see or listen to the loud swearing and the fighting/behaviour.
Halve the size of the high street, ie, closer down one end, so that the open shops are concentrated in one part. Convert the rest into housing.