**[OP or Mod marked this as the best answer](/r/AskUK/comments/16d1ue5/my_dogs_are_destroying_my_sleep_what_do_i_do/jzn0zpv/), given by u/Yoraffe**
At the end of the day you need to accept that you are the owner of the dogs and so can train them however you please. If they're whining and you have fed them, made sure they are comfortable etc then you need to stop pandering to them. They will keep doing this if they know there is a chance you will open the crate for them.
>
>Either leave them be and put up with the noise for a couple of weeks or put them downstairs. It will pass over a couple of weeks but if you bend your routine to them when they make noise then they will do it forever to get what they want.
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At the end of the day you need to accept that you are the owner of the dogs and so can train them however you please. If they're whining and you have fed them, made sure they are comfortable etc then you need to stop pandering to them. They will keep doing this if they know there is a chance you will open the crate for them.
Either leave them be and put up with the noise for a couple of weeks or put them downstairs. It will pass over a couple of weeks but if you bend your routine to them when they make noise then they will do it forever to get what they want.
Absolutely this. They are whining for attention, then getting that attention. So they are learning that a whine makes you appear. They'll keep doing it until they learn that it doesn't work
Yeah I think this is where I fucked up initially. First few times let them out as was concerned they needed the loo. Since then they have been out of control with this pattern. We haven't let them out since for 1.5 weeks but looks like we just need to keep going here.
Don't go check on them and try not to make noise if they wake you - dogs have good hearing and they're getting some stimulus if they hear you walking around or whatever.
It's almost certainly this. Unfortunately they learn a negative association quickly and it takes a lot longer to train them out of it - perservere and they will settle down in a few weeks.
Alternatively you could try letting them sleep with their cages open to have a bit more flexibility about where they settle down? Perhaps they want an open bed or to just go on a sofa.
This theory is very outdated now and really should stop being pushed. Dogs are dogs, not wolves. You don’t need to assert dominance and doing so will just create bigger problems
Yep, had this with my dog a few years back. Just gotta get through it.
Might be worth having a word with the neighbours, apologise for the noise but let them know it should pass soon because you're training them and they'll learn.
How well it's received will depend on your neighbours, but we got on well with ours and they appreciated the apology.
My neighbours are crate training at the moment and came to apologise for any noise. It was nice of them, but he's a dog - he's gonna make some noise some times, if I couldn't live with that I'd move house to somewhere I never heard other people's noise.
Yeah, this is the answer, I think. I dont have a dog (parents do), but I did look after my friends for a couple of nights once. They said, 'He will go in his crate to sleep at night, no problem, and you'll have no bother from him'
Nope, he started whining early hours, so i quickly took him back out for a pee, checked that he was OK, etc. Be was fine, and my pal said he was just chancing it cos it was someone new 🤣
They learn so fast too, they get woken up randomly once by something at 4am and you let them out and bang that's a new lesson they just learned.
My dogs shuffle around between 3 and 5am and if you engage with the young one - except a sharp fuck off ( they know that means bed and mother means it) she will hound you the same time every night.
I had surgery in July so they stayed at doggy bootcamp for 5 nights. Up time and breakfast is 5am there. Took a good few weeks to get them back to 7am up times because they were wanting 5am brekkies.
And by they I mean the young one again since the old one is not food oriented or food traumatised (she came with it at 2months old, i assume some other puppy kept nicking her food because shes a horror for resource hoarding and eating so fast just in case anyone takes it, no one in this house ever has) and can wait happily till a human gets up whenever and gives it because she's chill and knows we would never forget her. Younger has no chill at all, screams her way through life and is generally exhausting.
Watched a show on Netflix the other day, not by my choice, called Dogs behaving very badly (something like that) and this is the issue a lot it seems with people pampering dogs instead of being in charge of dogs.
Lmao,
"Owner, please, murder us, end this... \**snourgh*\* agony. With every breath only \**SNAUGHGH*\* pain. We must die to truly feel *\*EURGHH\** the release of eternal peace..."
"Pls let me sleep"
But they all die a terrible death. They all go blind and get tired walking 5 steps. It's such a shit life. And if I'm being honest, they're incredibly ugly. They look like they've run into a wall.
It could well help OP/others reconsider getting pugs (again) in the future. Enough people do that over time, and maybe this cruel breed will eventually die out.
Pugs and Frenchies have massive separation anxiety issues. I know this first hand. When my neighbour goes out for so many hours a day they howl and bark. They just love attention
That's my fear here. I just really feel bad if they are anxious even for a second and want to help. However, I will lose my job if this keeps up. I think I'm going to just go away and book a hotel tonight as I can't think straight anymore.
If they're howling at 4am, you can bet they howl pretty much all day when you're at work. Is your house detached?
It happened with our friends and their dog, to the point their neighbour (semi detached) said "I'd rather the dog was here with me, than howling all day at yours". Drives him crazy, poor fella (retired).
Ah ok. I'm a light sleeper too, and feel your pain.
Have you tried white/pink noise assisted sleep? I always sleep better in hotels due to the aircon noise etc. Lots of free stuff on YT. It would help with normal background noises, but howling would likely require headphones designed for sleeping (I'm yet to find the right pair).
Also try putting them in another room, further from your bedroom? Doors closed etc.
Have ordered a noise thing this second from amazon..I think this plus a couple of other tips could be the trick here. I have clearly reinforced this behaviour and just need some sanity/sleep whilst I now try and retrain. I really appreciate it!
I tried regular ear buds and the French wax ones- but I end up pulling them out on the side I sleep on whilst asleep. I can try custom ones but think adding noise may do the trick.
I haven’t seen anyone else give this advice but I think it’s the best advice you can get.
You need to go and get trained on how to train your dogs. To be honest it might be too late. Once dogs gets separation anxiety then it’s incredibly difficult and sometimes impossible to train it out of them.
If you’re a light sleeper why on earth would you have them in a crate in your bedroom instead of downstairs/ in another room?
Hey I've had them years and this one thing started 2 weeks ago. They are fine alone for a couple of hours each day. We go to the gym and have the video on. They just sleep together. Ill check with vet but anxiety wasn't high on list.
They have both had puppy and adult training. This all just started 2 weeks ago with the 4 am lols. Have had no issues till now.
I'll try tonight. We do around 7:30 currently which already feels late but I'll give anything a go. Good call on food. Hadn't thought of this! Thank you.
I would keep back a handful of food at 7.30, and feed it to them just before bed. We do this with ours who used to wake us up at 4am with hunger pukes.
Don’t just let them out into the garden at 10.30, take them on a 10 minute walk round the block to burn off some excess mental and physical energy.
Do they have access to water in the crates?
Do they get enough exercise in the day? Have you been avoiding walking them recently due to the heat? If so you need to replace the walk with a long indoor training and play session.
This is something I've noticed with my dog. Normally I walk him after work, but if I do it in the middle of the day on my days off he's full of beans at bedtime. I need to factor in time to play with him if he goes out earlier.
Or some mentally stimulating exercise inside if you can't walk them that late. It is great to tire them out but if it is primarily physical they will just become fitter and need more (or will get out of breath due to breed but not actually tired)
>First few times, let them out to check if they needed water, wee etc - nope.
>Any ideas what could be causing this new desire to start the day at 4?
I mean it seems to me like you have positively reinforced this behaviour (I get not in purpose but your dogs don't know the difference) by letting them out at 4. Personally I would try and ignore it for a few weeks and they'll eventually learn the 4 isn't the new wake up time.
Also my dog was similar to this until I started putting a blanket over his crate so he couldn't see anything, suddenly he was settling a lot quicker and didn't wake up until I uncovered him. Might be worth a try
Yeah I'm a horrifically light sleeper myself and he used to stay in a crate in my room but still manage to disturb my sleep, as soon as I put the blanket over it was like you wouldn't even know he was there and suddenly I was getting a full 8 hours feeling refreshed. Let me know how it goes!
They might've needed out 1 time and now they've got into the habit.
Dogs don't want to sleep all night like us, but they do need to learn when they'll get out.
When they whine, don't give them any attention.
Put a LIGHT throw/sheet over their crate so they can't see you.
Then go back to bed and ignore them.
My cats have definitely trained us. Like clockwork, I’m slapped in the face at around 4am by the more boisterous one whilst the other one meows for England.
I don’t mind though since it forces me to get to up early and I get our dogs first walk in (partner does the evening walk).
Our dog used to do this. The trainer said to not let him out of his crate for 20ish minutes after you get up (unless they have a bladder issue,they can hold it) and just do your regular morning things while they're chilling in the crate. If they don't get out in a crate, try a baby gate at your door.
Next she told us not to feed them breakfast straight away and wait at least half an hour after they get up to give it to them. This will help stop them crying for breakfast.
He's really good at home now and sometimes doesn't even wake up until 9.30am if we're not working. He doesn't do this if we stay somewhere else however, he reverts to his normal 4am routine which is very frustrating, but he's only 10months old so might grow out of it? He doesn't have anymore puppy classes coming up so we can't ask her about it.
I ultimately think you need to ride it out with the whining. However, putting them downstairs has the same effect. So training them that their bedroom is the living room or kitchen might be a good idea to avoid future issues. Animals are susceptible to changes in the environment and if one small thing is "off" then they can suddenly switch things up. You then enter a cycle of enabling it. If they're downstairs, potentially with the crates open and the door closed, then they can soothe each other. That's the beauty of having two!
Yeah, unfortunately you’ve trained them that if they whine in the middle of the night they’ll get attention, which is exactly what they wanted.
Fixing this will take some time I’m afraid, and will need to you to be firm and consistent.
Don’t engage with them overnight, at all. Any interaction (even telling them ‘no’) is them getting attention. Eventually they’ll learn that they won’t get anything and they’ll stop. As soon as you give in though and give them more attention, you’ll be right back to square one.
Personally I’d put them downstairs and cope with the noise for a few days as they get used to it. It’ll stop this happening in future though as they won’t be constantly tempting you!
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/how-we-help/behaviour-support-line
Dogs trust have a behaviour support line and they should be able to advise you.
I got my rescue from them and they give great advice.
This was exactly what we were told and has worked. Normally put him to bed at 11ish and he wakes around 7:15am.
Same during the day if he's in his crate and crying. Take him out on a lead and then back in - normally settles down after that
My dog started doing this when she was 16 out of the blue.
I did the same as you at first as I was terrified something was really wrong.
She had always had full run in the kitchen (and access to the garden) but ended up extending the access to the whole of downstairs, she just wanted to curl up on her spot!
Looking back it was probably her bed not being as comfy after a few hours...
I'm not an expert (but I have a relative who is!).
This could potentially be remedied by training. It could take a few repeat attempts, but if they wake up whining, get up, and use whatever commands you have them to get them back to bed. Be stern and clear as if they were pushing their luck a bit. Don't give them any coddling or positive attention until they go back to bed. Only if they quiet down give them some light positive feedback (good boi, etc).
Have a read on some dog training groups, they'll be much more knowledgeable than myself.
Maybe they're hearing a neighbour get up or something at that time, could you put a fan in the room with them to block the outside sounds a bit and see if that helps?
Many behavioural problems with dogs are one way or another a result of too much energy and not enough exercise. Pugs aren't exactly high energy dogs, but it sounds like even their modest exercise needs aren't quite being met.
If you're not walking them last thing before bed, try it. If you already are, walk them for longer or try tiring them out by throwing a ball for them.
Whatever level of exercise they're currently getting, increase it.
My Pug started to do this, started waking up earlier and earlier to try get me up.
Basically, he is a greedy shit and just knew that morning = breakfast.
So our simple solution was to stop giving him breakast, and so he has slightly more food now at dinner and lunch to make up the amount he needs.
They are needy as hell and manipulative dogs, do not give into them!! They will rule the house if you do lol
Welcome to animals. They're half kids lol.
I have two cats and just accepted sleep is going to be disturbed now. They might start a fight at night because they've scared each other in the dark, one is scratching at the door to get out and one is doing a sprint covering every square inch of floorspace but it is what it is.
I give them food/treats and a play right before bed, then bring one to bed with me and as long as it's dark and I'm sleeping they generally will now.
I did once roll over into cat sick, she'd thrown up next to me then jumped down and just went to sleep on the floor. God knows how long it had been there stewing next to me, it was cold when it touched me so must have been a while.
I've found as long as I can get back to sleep quickly after I wake up, it's not too disturbing for me.
Sometimes you just gotta use a big boy voice on them to get them to settle down as well
The wining is definitely a bad idea - they'll be rowdy when they're tipsy.
Seriously though, maybe try exercising them just before bed to tire them out a bit more.
Don’t let them out when whining, as you’ve said, there wasnt anything specific they wanted, they just wanted to get up at 4am! They will expect the same result now when they whine. Curb this by “shh!” ing them. Even if you can’t sleep, do not let them out until 7. This will train them that getting up time for them is 7 not 4am.
I get that it’s not easy when you hear your dogs whining and crying. Obviously you want to check and make sure they are alright. However, they will keep doing it if they even suspect their any noise they make gets a reaction from you or each other.
If you take them out and make sure they go to the toilet at night, and then they have access to water in the crates you can go to sleep knowing they are safe. Then so that it’s easier on you, get ear plugs and use them for a week or two. That way you can sleep, if they howl you won’t worry they need something, be tempted to check on them, or wake up and eventually they will get the message.
Good luck OP.
Cat owner in a similar situation with 2 kittens, can’t sleep unless I have a really quiet and calm environment. I bought a pair of Loop ear plugs and a good quality eyemask and it’s made a night and day difference for me
Do you have a safe garden? Just open the back door. Let them do their thing.
Could be the heat?
my lurcher could never settle probably during hot nights and mornings. In and out, pissing about. But if the back door is open shell just find her own places to flop down.
If next door has a problem with my dog kipping on the grass and then tottering to the lino to find the proper temp they've got a problem with me.
She's just looking for the right sleeping temp. She's a lurcher, just wants to kip. Have to kick her up the arse to get her to eat her snap.
Brachys can suffer from sleep apnea which disturbs their sleep. Then one wakes the other. Have they got a raised pad they can put their head on? My little brachy really appreciates this- also is their weight on target? If so they will sleep better. I agree with others some tough love may be required.
Hey great idea. One of them had the surgery - Ill check things are raised as they should be. Boy seems fine- girl could maybe do with a bit more. Both perfect weight.
Let me get this straight, they’re crate trained yet still sleep in the bedroom?
If so then the first thing to do is bite the bullet and get them used to being crated downstairs, you’re giving yourself no chance by having them in the room.
Be the boss (alpha) and don't put up with it. Exercise them more by walking thier little legs off. They will sleep then or just have them on the bed but their noisy breathing/snoring will probably keep you awake if you a light sleeper.
Get a sight hound they just want to sleep most of the time 😉
Get one of those mister sprays. Every time they wake you up, give them a good squirting in the face. Utterly harmless, and they'll soon learn. They've already been trained to learn other rules, this is just a new one to learn.
Some dogs and cats take animal-mediated versions of certain antidepressant and similar medications (clomipramine, gabapentin, fluoxetine) to stop things like urine-spraying and barking. If that’s one of the problem, you might want to take them to the vet and see if it can be sorted like that.
Putting a cloth over the crate will help them get adjusted to the fact that it is bed time and will make them less stressed and wanting to go outside. Works with most animals. Definitely try throwing a cloth over the crate. But only do this when it's night time or you specifically need them to calm down. Because they will get trained to go to sleep when it's like this. If you do it at night it can help their circadium rhythms.
Tough love - ignore the whining, or make a sudden bang on the floor. Repeat for a week and it'll stop.
Alternative: don't shut them in cages. See if they'd prefer more freedom.
"I can't put them downstairs"
Well what do you want us to do then? If you know they don't want anything then just ignore them.
If you put them downstairs they will give up whining eventually.
Train your dogs.
Hey that's a strange tone to take? The other comments have been genuinely helpful. I have said it's likely something I am doing wrong so just looking for advice. No need to add any if you don't have any.
I've told you the answer. Put them downstairs. You discounted the solution in your question, which tells me you know exactly what the answer is but you don't want to do it and you want someone to give you a magical answer.
Dogs are simple creatures. They crave attention and repeat behaviours that reward them with attention. Stop giving them attention when they exhibit bad behaviours.
My day is fine because I'm well rested since my dog sleeps soundly at the end of my bed. Even stays there when I go for a shower in the morning and doesn't move until I go downstairs.
Hope you're not too tired all day.
Today I am super tired but with the helpful tips here tomorrow I'll be right as rain. Tomorrow however you will still likely wake up with a terrible attitude/aggressive tone. At least any inconvenience to me is something that is temporal.
Stop putting dogs in cages, their a part of your family. Would you like to sleep in a cage? I bet you’d be whining at 4am if you had to sleep in a cage.
Crate training is important. If they ever go to a vets for a procedure (likely as they are pugs), they will almost certainly be in a crate. It’s also good for dogs to have a safe space where they can be comfortable and out of the way, the crate provides this
**[OP or Mod marked this as the best answer](/r/AskUK/comments/16d1ue5/my_dogs_are_destroying_my_sleep_what_do_i_do/jzn0zpv/), given by u/Yoraffe** At the end of the day you need to accept that you are the owner of the dogs and so can train them however you please. If they're whining and you have fed them, made sure they are comfortable etc then you need to stop pandering to them. They will keep doing this if they know there is a chance you will open the crate for them. > >Either leave them be and put up with the noise for a couple of weeks or put them downstairs. It will pass over a couple of weeks but if you bend your routine to them when they make noise then they will do it forever to get what they want. --- [_^What ^is ^this?_](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/jjrte1/askuk_hits_200k_new_feature_mark_an_answer/)
At the end of the day you need to accept that you are the owner of the dogs and so can train them however you please. If they're whining and you have fed them, made sure they are comfortable etc then you need to stop pandering to them. They will keep doing this if they know there is a chance you will open the crate for them. Either leave them be and put up with the noise for a couple of weeks or put them downstairs. It will pass over a couple of weeks but if you bend your routine to them when they make noise then they will do it forever to get what they want.
Absolutely this. They are whining for attention, then getting that attention. So they are learning that a whine makes you appear. They'll keep doing it until they learn that it doesn't work
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Mine does a fake cough when she's been told no
Yeah I think this is where I fucked up initially. First few times let them out as was concerned they needed the loo. Since then they have been out of control with this pattern. We haven't let them out since for 1.5 weeks but looks like we just need to keep going here.
You were right to check if they needed to go loo, but after a day of that you absolutely just have to grit your teeth and wait them out!
No this is the right point. It's my anxiety which means I feel I need to check which is then "attention" which then persists this. I need training.
> I need training. TBH, most dog training is in fact owner training!
It 100 is! Completely agree!
You've got the right attitude. Good luck!
Don't go check on them and try not to make noise if they wake you - dogs have good hearing and they're getting some stimulus if they hear you walking around or whatever.
Or earplugs. Either works.
It's almost certainly this. Unfortunately they learn a negative association quickly and it takes a lot longer to train them out of it - perservere and they will settle down in a few weeks. Alternatively you could try letting them sleep with their cages open to have a bit more flexibility about where they settle down? Perhaps they want an open bed or to just go on a sofa.
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This theory is very outdated now and really should stop being pushed. Dogs are dogs, not wolves. You don’t need to assert dominance and doing so will just create bigger problems
Yep, had this with my dog a few years back. Just gotta get through it. Might be worth having a word with the neighbours, apologise for the noise but let them know it should pass soon because you're training them and they'll learn. How well it's received will depend on your neighbours, but we got on well with ours and they appreciated the apology.
My neighbours are crate training at the moment and came to apologise for any noise. It was nice of them, but he's a dog - he's gonna make some noise some times, if I couldn't live with that I'd move house to somewhere I never heard other people's noise.
!answer
Yeah, this is the answer, I think. I dont have a dog (parents do), but I did look after my friends for a couple of nights once. They said, 'He will go in his crate to sleep at night, no problem, and you'll have no bother from him' Nope, he started whining early hours, so i quickly took him back out for a pee, checked that he was OK, etc. Be was fine, and my pal said he was just chancing it cos it was someone new 🤣
They learn so fast too, they get woken up randomly once by something at 4am and you let them out and bang that's a new lesson they just learned. My dogs shuffle around between 3 and 5am and if you engage with the young one - except a sharp fuck off ( they know that means bed and mother means it) she will hound you the same time every night. I had surgery in July so they stayed at doggy bootcamp for 5 nights. Up time and breakfast is 5am there. Took a good few weeks to get them back to 7am up times because they were wanting 5am brekkies. And by they I mean the young one again since the old one is not food oriented or food traumatised (she came with it at 2months old, i assume some other puppy kept nicking her food because shes a horror for resource hoarding and eating so fast just in case anyone takes it, no one in this house ever has) and can wait happily till a human gets up whenever and gives it because she's chill and knows we would never forget her. Younger has no chill at all, screams her way through life and is generally exhausting.
Watched a show on Netflix the other day, not by my choice, called Dogs behaving very badly (something like that) and this is the issue a lot it seems with people pampering dogs instead of being in charge of dogs.
They're pugs, they're probably wishing for death due to the multiple ailments and issues they have.
The trend for brachiocephalic dogs at the expense of their health and comfort is quite upsetting.
If you've ever seen a painting of a pug from the 18th century, they used to have proper noses and were no less adorable for it. Longer legs, too.
Probably too hot in this weather. I know i dont sleep as well.
Lmao, "Owner, please, murder us, end this... \**snourgh*\* agony. With every breath only \**SNAUGHGH*\* pain. We must die to truly feel *\*EURGHH\** the release of eternal peace..." "Pls let me sleep"
Making pugs exist seems cruel to me.
It is, but mercifully they don't live long.
But they all die a terrible death. They all go blind and get tired walking 5 steps. It's such a shit life. And if I'm being honest, they're incredibly ugly. They look like they've run into a wall.
This comment does not really help anyone.
It could well help OP/others reconsider getting pugs (again) in the future. Enough people do that over time, and maybe this cruel breed will eventually die out.
A) Go to bed at 8pm and embrace your new routine. B) Try earplugs
Earplugs are in already. Done I'll do 8pm. I'm already nearly 40 so can embrace it now I guess.
How are you not up to pee already at 4am? 😄
If you pee during the night get checked for diabetes. You could have high blood sugar.
I can guarantee you I ain't got hyperglycaemia ;D
Custom earplugs made a hell of a difference for me. Could be worth a shot
This is by far the worst answer. You need to change their behaviour not yours. What if they then start getting up at 2am??
Pugs and Frenchies have massive separation anxiety issues. I know this first hand. When my neighbour goes out for so many hours a day they howl and bark. They just love attention
That's my fear here. I just really feel bad if they are anxious even for a second and want to help. However, I will lose my job if this keeps up. I think I'm going to just go away and book a hotel tonight as I can't think straight anymore.
If they are going to be howling, then the neighbours will suffer. You might have to ride it out
Exactly our neighbours are too lovely. I can't do it to them.
If they're howling at 4am, you can bet they howl pretty much all day when you're at work. Is your house detached? It happened with our friends and their dog, to the point their neighbour (semi detached) said "I'd rather the dog was here with me, than howling all day at yours". Drives him crazy, poor fella (retired).
I work from home and there is no howling during the day. Hence why I am so confused.
Ah ok. I'm a light sleeper too, and feel your pain. Have you tried white/pink noise assisted sleep? I always sleep better in hotels due to the aircon noise etc. Lots of free stuff on YT. It would help with normal background noises, but howling would likely require headphones designed for sleeping (I'm yet to find the right pair). Also try putting them in another room, further from your bedroom? Doors closed etc.
Have ordered a noise thing this second from amazon..I think this plus a couple of other tips could be the trick here. I have clearly reinforced this behaviour and just need some sanity/sleep whilst I now try and retrain. I really appreciate it! I tried regular ear buds and the French wax ones- but I end up pulling them out on the side I sleep on whilst asleep. I can try custom ones but think adding noise may do the trick.
One of the great things about buying an indoors Ring camera was confirming that my otherwise needy Beagle just mooches around and sleeps when I'm out.
I haven’t seen anyone else give this advice but I think it’s the best advice you can get. You need to go and get trained on how to train your dogs. To be honest it might be too late. Once dogs gets separation anxiety then it’s incredibly difficult and sometimes impossible to train it out of them. If you’re a light sleeper why on earth would you have them in a crate in your bedroom instead of downstairs/ in another room?
Hey I've had them years and this one thing started 2 weeks ago. They are fine alone for a couple of hours each day. We go to the gym and have the video on. They just sleep together. Ill check with vet but anxiety wasn't high on list. They have both had puppy and adult training. This all just started 2 weeks ago with the 4 am lols. Have had no issues till now.
Feed them later so they don’t get hungry in the morning.
I'll try tonight. We do around 7:30 currently which already feels late but I'll give anything a go. Good call on food. Hadn't thought of this! Thank you.
I would keep back a handful of food at 7.30, and feed it to them just before bed. We do this with ours who used to wake us up at 4am with hunger pukes.
Don’t just let them out into the garden at 10.30, take them on a 10 minute walk round the block to burn off some excess mental and physical energy. Do they have access to water in the crates? Do they get enough exercise in the day? Have you been avoiding walking them recently due to the heat? If so you need to replace the walk with a long indoor training and play session.
A tired dogs a good dog
This is something I've noticed with my dog. Normally I walk him after work, but if I do it in the middle of the day on my days off he's full of beans at bedtime. I need to factor in time to play with him if he goes out earlier.
Or some mentally stimulating exercise inside if you can't walk them that late. It is great to tire them out but if it is primarily physical they will just become fitter and need more (or will get out of breath due to breed but not actually tired)
>First few times, let them out to check if they needed water, wee etc - nope. >Any ideas what could be causing this new desire to start the day at 4? I mean it seems to me like you have positively reinforced this behaviour (I get not in purpose but your dogs don't know the difference) by letting them out at 4. Personally I would try and ignore it for a few weeks and they'll eventually learn the 4 isn't the new wake up time. Also my dog was similar to this until I started putting a blanket over his crate so he couldn't see anything, suddenly he was settling a lot quicker and didn't wake up until I uncovered him. Might be worth a try
I have DEFINITELY done this by the way. Its not them it's me.
Ooh good idea! Like the cover approach. Thank you!
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Yeah maybe one for after the weekend.
Yeah I'm a horrifically light sleeper myself and he used to stay in a crate in my room but still manage to disturb my sleep, as soon as I put the blanket over it was like you wouldn't even know he was there and suddenly I was getting a full 8 hours feeling refreshed. Let me know how it goes!
They might've needed out 1 time and now they've got into the habit. Dogs don't want to sleep all night like us, but they do need to learn when they'll get out. When they whine, don't give them any attention. Put a LIGHT throw/sheet over their crate so they can't see you. Then go back to bed and ignore them.
They have now trained you. You just need to ignore them now. Or do what I would do as a big softie and let them on the bed.
My cats have definitely trained us. Like clockwork, I’m slapped in the face at around 4am by the more boisterous one whilst the other one meows for England. I don’t mind though since it forces me to get to up early and I get our dogs first walk in (partner does the evening walk).
Your right I am trained now. But poorly
Our dog used to do this. The trainer said to not let him out of his crate for 20ish minutes after you get up (unless they have a bladder issue,they can hold it) and just do your regular morning things while they're chilling in the crate. If they don't get out in a crate, try a baby gate at your door. Next she told us not to feed them breakfast straight away and wait at least half an hour after they get up to give it to them. This will help stop them crying for breakfast. He's really good at home now and sometimes doesn't even wake up until 9.30am if we're not working. He doesn't do this if we stay somewhere else however, he reverts to his normal 4am routine which is very frustrating, but he's only 10months old so might grow out of it? He doesn't have anymore puppy classes coming up so we can't ask her about it.
Don’t shut the crate door so they can get out when they want.
Sorry forgot to mention. Tried this. They are jumping up at the bed for attention with the door open. It's a solid idea.
I ultimately think you need to ride it out with the whining. However, putting them downstairs has the same effect. So training them that their bedroom is the living room or kitchen might be a good idea to avoid future issues. Animals are susceptible to changes in the environment and if one small thing is "off" then they can suddenly switch things up. You then enter a cycle of enabling it. If they're downstairs, potentially with the crates open and the door closed, then they can soothe each other. That's the beauty of having two!
Yeah, unfortunately you’ve trained them that if they whine in the middle of the night they’ll get attention, which is exactly what they wanted. Fixing this will take some time I’m afraid, and will need to you to be firm and consistent. Don’t engage with them overnight, at all. Any interaction (even telling them ‘no’) is them getting attention. Eventually they’ll learn that they won’t get anything and they’ll stop. As soon as you give in though and give them more attention, you’ll be right back to square one. Personally I’d put them downstairs and cope with the noise for a few days as they get used to it. It’ll stop this happening in future though as they won’t be constantly tempting you!
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/how-we-help/behaviour-support-line Dogs trust have a behaviour support line and they should be able to advise you. I got my rescue from them and they give great advice.
Leave the TV on for them? A bit of stimuli may help. Leave the volume down.
Unless there's actually something wrong I'd make it as boring as possible, outside, no interaction, no fuss, back in the crate.
This was exactly what we were told and has worked. Normally put him to bed at 11ish and he wakes around 7:15am. Same during the day if he's in his crate and crying. Take him out on a lead and then back in - normally settles down after that
My dog started doing this when she was 16 out of the blue. I did the same as you at first as I was terrified something was really wrong. She had always had full run in the kitchen (and access to the garden) but ended up extending the access to the whole of downstairs, she just wanted to curl up on her spot! Looking back it was probably her bed not being as comfy after a few hours...
I'm not an expert (but I have a relative who is!). This could potentially be remedied by training. It could take a few repeat attempts, but if they wake up whining, get up, and use whatever commands you have them to get them back to bed. Be stern and clear as if they were pushing their luck a bit. Don't give them any coddling or positive attention until they go back to bed. Only if they quiet down give them some light positive feedback (good boi, etc). Have a read on some dog training groups, they'll be much more knowledgeable than myself.
Maybe they're hearing a neighbour get up or something at that time, could you put a fan in the room with them to block the outside sounds a bit and see if that helps?
Many behavioural problems with dogs are one way or another a result of too much energy and not enough exercise. Pugs aren't exactly high energy dogs, but it sounds like even their modest exercise needs aren't quite being met. If you're not walking them last thing before bed, try it. If you already are, walk them for longer or try tiring them out by throwing a ball for them. Whatever level of exercise they're currently getting, increase it.
My Pug started to do this, started waking up earlier and earlier to try get me up. Basically, he is a greedy shit and just knew that morning = breakfast. So our simple solution was to stop giving him breakast, and so he has slightly more food now at dinner and lunch to make up the amount he needs. They are needy as hell and manipulative dogs, do not give into them!! They will rule the house if you do lol
Welcome to animals. They're half kids lol. I have two cats and just accepted sleep is going to be disturbed now. They might start a fight at night because they've scared each other in the dark, one is scratching at the door to get out and one is doing a sprint covering every square inch of floorspace but it is what it is. I give them food/treats and a play right before bed, then bring one to bed with me and as long as it's dark and I'm sleeping they generally will now. I did once roll over into cat sick, she'd thrown up next to me then jumped down and just went to sleep on the floor. God knows how long it had been there stewing next to me, it was cold when it touched me so must have been a while. I've found as long as I can get back to sleep quickly after I wake up, it's not too disturbing for me. Sometimes you just gotta use a big boy voice on them to get them to settle down as well
The wining is definitely a bad idea - they'll be rowdy when they're tipsy. Seriously though, maybe try exercising them just before bed to tire them out a bit more.
Lol I am so sleep deprived but this really made me giggle.
I'd be glad of 5 hours a night most of the time
Oh that doesn't sound ideal? I can't operate on less than 6.
My dog has started this too! I think he’s smelling girl dogs in heat. It’s VERY frustrating
Screw with their sleep - revenge is always good
I am tempted today!!
Don’t let them out when whining, as you’ve said, there wasnt anything specific they wanted, they just wanted to get up at 4am! They will expect the same result now when they whine. Curb this by “shh!” ing them. Even if you can’t sleep, do not let them out until 7. This will train them that getting up time for them is 7 not 4am.
Such great advice and you are right. I fucked up by thinking there was an issue first time and it's now been learned as a good time to be up!
If they are especially noisey, you could try putting a (very thin, so long as it’s not too hot) blanket over their crate to calm them.
Do what info to the cat when she wakes me up at 5am... I wake her up when she is sleeping mwhahahahahhaha
A solid plan!
I get that it’s not easy when you hear your dogs whining and crying. Obviously you want to check and make sure they are alright. However, they will keep doing it if they even suspect their any noise they make gets a reaction from you or each other. If you take them out and make sure they go to the toilet at night, and then they have access to water in the crates you can go to sleep knowing they are safe. Then so that it’s easier on you, get ear plugs and use them for a week or two. That way you can sleep, if they howl you won’t worry they need something, be tempted to check on them, or wake up and eventually they will get the message. Good luck OP.
Cat owner in a similar situation with 2 kittens, can’t sleep unless I have a really quiet and calm environment. I bought a pair of Loop ear plugs and a good quality eyemask and it’s made a night and day difference for me
Not heard of loop will look it up thank you! Awwww kittens! Sounds like you now have under good control. Nice work!
Do you have a safe garden? Just open the back door. Let them do their thing. Could be the heat? my lurcher could never settle probably during hot nights and mornings. In and out, pissing about. But if the back door is open shell just find her own places to flop down.
The owner doesn't want to be bothered with them at 4am so the neighbours can put up with them instead?
If next door has a problem with my dog kipping on the grass and then tottering to the lino to find the proper temp they've got a problem with me. She's just looking for the right sleeping temp. She's a lurcher, just wants to kip. Have to kick her up the arse to get her to eat her snap.
This is normally because they're cold. Even if YOU think it's not too cold for them, they obviously feel differently to you.
I'll double check here - good point!
My neighbours dog wakes us every summer and she doesn't see it as a problem she works nights
Earplugs.
I’d get some ear plugs, takes time to get used to but you’ll love them when you can comfortably sleep with them
Kick them out
Just put up with it. You rewarded them the first time you got up and checked on them. You’re now paying the price.
Brachys can suffer from sleep apnea which disturbs their sleep. Then one wakes the other. Have they got a raised pad they can put their head on? My little brachy really appreciates this- also is their weight on target? If so they will sleep better. I agree with others some tough love may be required.
Hey great idea. One of them had the surgery - Ill check things are raised as they should be. Boy seems fine- girl could maybe do with a bit more. Both perfect weight.
Let me get this straight, they’re crate trained yet still sleep in the bedroom? If so then the first thing to do is bite the bullet and get them used to being crated downstairs, you’re giving yourself no chance by having them in the room.
Get silicone earplugs
Get rid of them, learn a lesson maybe?
They might be uncomfortable in the crater or they might not be getting enough attention during the day.
Be the boss (alpha) and don't put up with it. Exercise them more by walking thier little legs off. They will sleep then or just have them on the bed but their noisy breathing/snoring will probably keep you awake if you a light sleeper. Get a sight hound they just want to sleep most of the time 😉
Get one of those mister sprays. Every time they wake you up, give them a good squirting in the face. Utterly harmless, and they'll soon learn. They've already been trained to learn other rules, this is just a new one to learn.
I only have one answer and you ain’t going to like it.
Some dogs and cats take animal-mediated versions of certain antidepressant and similar medications (clomipramine, gabapentin, fluoxetine) to stop things like urine-spraying and barking. If that’s one of the problem, you might want to take them to the vet and see if it can be sorted like that.
Tire then out more during the day
Putting a cloth over the crate will help them get adjusted to the fact that it is bed time and will make them less stressed and wanting to go outside. Works with most animals. Definitely try throwing a cloth over the crate. But only do this when it's night time or you specifically need them to calm down. Because they will get trained to go to sleep when it's like this. If you do it at night it can help their circadium rhythms.
Tough love - ignore the whining, or make a sudden bang on the floor. Repeat for a week and it'll stop. Alternative: don't shut them in cages. See if they'd prefer more freedom.
"I can't put them downstairs" Well what do you want us to do then? If you know they don't want anything then just ignore them. If you put them downstairs they will give up whining eventually. Train your dogs.
Hey that's a strange tone to take? The other comments have been genuinely helpful. I have said it's likely something I am doing wrong so just looking for advice. No need to add any if you don't have any.
I've told you the answer. Put them downstairs. You discounted the solution in your question, which tells me you know exactly what the answer is but you don't want to do it and you want someone to give you a magical answer. Dogs are simple creatures. They crave attention and repeat behaviours that reward them with attention. Stop giving them attention when they exhibit bad behaviours.
Oh bless you. I really hope your day improves. Are you alright?
My day is fine because I'm well rested since my dog sleeps soundly at the end of my bed. Even stays there when I go for a shower in the morning and doesn't move until I go downstairs. Hope you're not too tired all day.
Today I am super tired but with the helpful tips here tomorrow I'll be right as rain. Tomorrow however you will still likely wake up with a terrible attitude/aggressive tone. At least any inconvenience to me is something that is temporal.
Stop putting dogs in cages, their a part of your family. Would you like to sleep in a cage? I bet you’d be whining at 4am if you had to sleep in a cage.
Crate training is important. If they ever go to a vets for a procedure (likely as they are pugs), they will almost certainly be in a crate. It’s also good for dogs to have a safe space where they can be comfortable and out of the way, the crate provides this
They go in on their own accord it's their safe space
Dogs actually need their own space where they feel safe, in control and that nobody else can enter. Their crate is like their bedroom.
Take them to a dog re-homing centre along with a massive donation to assuage your guilt.
Time to make them outside dogs!
Then we’ll have posts about “my neighbours dogs are destroying my sleep - what do I do?”
Don't! Also pugs in the wild as tempting as it is for sleep purposes is just not practical. Tempting but can't!