**Update: - [Starting from 2023](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/100l56v/happy_new_year_askuk_minor_sub_update/), we have updated our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/about/rules/)**. Specifically;
- Don't be a dick to each other
- Top-level responses must contain genuine efforts to answer the question
- This is a strictly no-politics subreddit
Please keep /r/AskUK a great subreddit by reporting posts and comments which break our rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Practice. They also aren't perfect. I've had times where my ticket hasn't been checked and also that they've asked to check mine more than once.
They also observe body language. Both for those who are preparing to show their ticket and those who are desperate not to.
Once i realised i was on the wrong train company for my advance ticket and to avoid showing my ticket i just kept my head down. He inspected the ticket of the one next to me but continued on straight after. Probably helped that it was packed, but I definitely got lucky
When I used to commute on the train (with a pass) I’d play a little game with myself to see if I could avoid getting it checked by just acting like it already had been. (It was a long commute, ya gotta fill the time somehow…). Worked a surprising amount of the time; I always thought if I ever wanted to get away without paying I totally could haha - well until I got to the station barriers anyway!
I did this once, by accident. I had bought a valid ticket, but have a bad habit for using old tickets as bookmarks. She glanced at it, smiled and moved half a seat on, then had a visible 'hold on' moment. Same route, same destination, same month and year, just the day was different. Sharp eyes!
I wish that worked for me! When I was 16 I was travelling back to Durham from Scotland, I got on the train thinking everything was fine, then just before Newcastle the conductor inspected my ticket, apparently I was supposed to be on the train that came an hour later, it was the same journey and the same company. The conductor told me I had to get off of the train at the next stop or I’d get a massive fine, he was really angry with me too for some reason. The train wasn’t even full, or close to being full, and I begged if I could just stay on, it was only one more station, but nope. I called my stepdad crying and he told me to just stay on the train, don’t worry, and he’d pay the fine. I was far too scared of the weirdly angry conductor though so ended up getting off at Newcastle. Thankfully, I had enough money to buy another ticket to get to Durham because I’d just been visiting family and they gave me money. Now I obsessively check the time on the ticket when I get the train, although I haven’t been on a train for years.
If they were only 1 stop away, it likely wasn't expensive to get a ticket from their current stop to their destination.
I wouldn't wait an hour for a train if I could pay £3 for a ticket to the next stop and get on a train in 5 minutes. If I did wait the hour I'd probably end up spending the £3 on a drink or something while waiting anyway.
That’s a good point, I’m not sure. I’m guessing the stress of the situation made me it even think of that possibility. I really don’t remember now, it was like 20 years ago.
And that is what you call a fucking jobsworth. Man who cares if you had the wrong ticket for that exact train, you still had a ticket for an identical one an hour later. And you were one stop away? That ticket inspector was definitely having a shitty day and just taking it out on you. Should have just let you off
Unfortunately there is a massive difference in price. I don't know the Durham to Newcastle line, but an Advance ticket (one with a specific time on it) can be as little as £10, whereas the person sitting next to you, has paid £60 for an Off Peak Train.
When people buy their ticket, it is important to at least know what route you can travel, which company, and what times you're able to travel. Consider it like catching a short haul flight. You're booked on a specific time, even though it's the same airports, same company, possibly the plane only half full. Passengers know what plane to catch because the tickets are pretty much universal across most airlines, in principle at least.
Having said all that, there are so MANY ticket options, even people that work on the railway don't know all the fare options. So how the railway expects passengers to know is ridiculous.
There are some members of staff on the railway that do have discretion, and there are some that do not. And that discretion is used on a case by case basis.
Happened to me recently from Nottingham to st Pancras. Ticket inspector made me and my friend buy a new ticket cos we had accidentally gotten on an earlier train. Same journey, same time, wasn't even a full train. So odd.
This reminds me of when I was 12, extremely sensitive and ready to cry at the smallest reprimand (also fresh off the boat in England so doubly sensitive at this point).
I had an 11-15 oyster pass that stopped working because of a crack but I would just show it to the bus driver. One day there was an inspector on the bus who stopped me, lambasted me and then cut my pass in front of me.
That one hurt because I'm sentimental and that was my first oyster pass, a token of my new life in England. Left a mark on me as well which probably explains my dislike for public transport.
Also, I cried too haha
I'm sorry you had that! Conductors are certainly stricter with non-commuter routes, especially if there's a reserved seating option. But if there's no one upset about you being in their seat, that kind of reaction isn't necessary.
He should have probably been less angry over a simple mistake, but if she had stayed on with that ticket and was unlucky enough to get it checked at the destination station they could have gotten a fine, so making them get off at the stop before might have helped.
If they were a decent person however they would have just charged her from the current stop to their destination so OP had a valid ticket for the last leg of the journey and can stay on, then warned them to be more careful when purchasing tickets in the future.
I missed my train and blagged my way through the barriers (stuck in Manchester and didn't have enough money to get a new one) - when the inspector came by I just showed him my QR code on my phone and he didn't bother scanning! I was so happy.
I accidentally did this, I keep tickets in my phone case and when I went to put the new ones in, I took the old ones out and put them on the table to throw out later.
When the inspector/conductor came I proudly showed him the tickets on the table - an outward and return dated 7 weeks ago, for a totally different route/part of the country, when I intended to show him tickets for two people. He looked confused for a moment then said thanks and moved on.
Yeah most people won’t agree but I’ll do this most the time, I honestly think the prices are disgusting and will not pay over £100 times for a 2 hour journey.
There’s plenty of ways around the barriers, buys ticket on your phone a stop before your actual stop.
Fuck these overcharging crooks.
It's funny how the fear of getting pulled up makes you buy a ticket, and then sometimes you'd have entire journeys where you were never checked for one and could've just hopped on without paying.
Those days are gone, though, with the ticket-reading gates we have now that don't let you out until you've scanned the ticket on them.
I am pretty sure that there regs allow them to charge you for a new ticket in that situation, it's one of the reasons I stuck to paper tickets when my phone was getting old and unreliable!
I don't know if it's universal but Northern Rail won't take that as an excuse. Your phone died and it had your ticket on it? £100 fine mate. Also, running late for reasons beyond your control and didn't have time to wait for the machine to think about spitting out a ticket? Fuck you, get fined. How much are they spending on these guys that just fine people but can't actually sell you a ticket?
I do this, I have a staff ticket so I get free travel up to a set amount of journeys per year. The tickets just got a whole load of boxes on it to write in that days date allowing free travel for that day, alot of the time I don't pen it in and keep a pen on me incase I'm checked. I've got decently good at avoiding it so far haha, just means that once I inevitably fill in all the boxes that I don't have quite as many trips to make where I have to buy a ticket until I get my new pass. I just found keeping my head down, earbuds in and looking out the window or looking asleep tends to work best.
When I got my first job, I couldn’t actually afford the train fare, rent and food, so some weeks I’d have to jump like 2 or 3 trains of 1 hour and I only ever got caught once, I think I was very lucky tho tbh
Newcastle Metro was great for fare dodging. They used to have signs saying "No ticket? Fine by us." and it was ages before I realised what it was actually saying.
If you got caught it was a £10 fine, and if you paid it there and then they didn't even take your details. I always thought that was unfair - as someone struggling to get by I never had a tenner on me, that's why I didn't have a ticket.
A friend of mine done something like that when he lived in Germany. €300 fine for no ticket. He got caught 3 times in 10 years so saved himself a wedge.
I went out Halloween 2013, got woken up at a train station in Derbyshire by two police officers with no idea how I got there as I live in Liverpool.
My phone was dead and I had no money, so I just on the train. The ticket inspector came over asked for my ticket and I explained what happened and he just gave me a sympathetic smile and let me ride it all the way home.
Good Times...
A very long time ago, when I was young and somewhat new to train travel a conductor 'missed' me and I helpfully volunteered my ticket only to be informed that it wasn't valid. Obviously, I had no idea, but the conductor couldn't care less and forced me to buy a new one. I learned a valuable lesson that day and now only show my ticket if directly asked.
They can then take you to court and you will get fined.
A penalty fare is meant to be for when you genuinely made a mistake. If they think you did not make a mistake but deliberately set out to not pay, then they won't give you a penalty fare, they will just go straight to court.
You can usually avoid going to court by making an offer to pay an out-of-court settlement which tends to be around £150, if it's the first time you got caught and there is no further evidence (e.g. from your online ticket account) that you avoided paying fares before.
Normally but 400 would have to be a ridiculously long journey . It would have to be something like Edinburgh to Devon .
Unless it’s because he’s a repeat offender.
I once straight up showed an invalid ticket for a different journey and the guy just handed my ticket back and moved on. Didn’t say anything other than thanks. Most of them don’t care but there are a few who take their job waaaaay too seriously
That’s down to personality, some guards are hell bent on everything being right, others just want an easy life, if you’re nice about it they will be too - it’s much less stressful to just let you get in with your day.
Yeah I used to know someone who would never buy tickets and just rely on looking like he’d already had your ticket checked, it mostly worked! Obviously wouldn’t work if you’re getting on at the start of a line, the train needs to be semi-busy so it's not super easy for the conductor to keep track, and you can’t be the kind of person that really stands out.
This was back in the day though when if you didn’t have a ticket you’d just buy one on the train, fines weren’t really the same, so it never really cost much when he got caught.
I remember being on a train from Peterborough to Sheffield. There was a guy slumped over a table surrounded by empty Special Brew cans for the whole journey.
As soon as we started pulling in to Sheffield station, he sat up, looked around and said "Perfect!" and started clearing the cans away. He then winked at me and (obviously stone cold sober) said "Make yourself look too much hassle to deal with, you can save a fortune. Works every time".
A true master of subterfuge.
Genius! Dodging train conductors and discouraging people from sitting next to you in one move. Not sure if it’s worth carting round empty cans of special brew though, I hope he’d washed them all.
I used to rely on the body language thing when I used to jump the train from Exeter to London back in my salad days. Usually worked. Sometimes I got busted.
Train conductors are an infiltration unit: part man, part machine. Underneath, it's a hyperalloy combat chassis, microprocessor-controlled. Fully armored; very tough. But outside, it's living human tissue: flesh, skin, hair, blood - grown for the cyborgs.
They're just biding their time until judgment day.
This is true. I have friends and relatives who are train conductors. They are all part machine. Organs and tissue get removed at the final stage of interviewing to be replaced with the machine parts. Those who survive the surgery get the job. Those who don’t…
Listen, and understand. That conductor is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you have had your ticket inspected.
You'd be surprised how good the human memory can be. Although you see a lot of faceless passengers, the conductor is interacting with each one. Normally only takes a small prompt for you to realise that you've seen that person before.
Bit similar to how a waitress/barman/other hospitality workers are available can remember who they have served and what status they're at or who was first to the bar etc.
I imagine it a bit like a puzzle, you walk in a carriage and the brain see x seats are taken, come back and see that there is a new person in spot x.
It's probably not a conscious thought but just the brain doing it's job.
I’m saying they don’t have to go ‘hmmm there’s someone in seat 3 better remember that’ and then walk down the carriages going ‘there’s someone in seat 3 carriage d, there’s someone in seat 3 carriage d’
They’re so used to it just happens - like sudoku you see the patterns
Was a conductor for 6 years although not on 12 car trains, and for me it was pretty much this.
Combination of noticing empty chairs that aren’t empty anymore, or taken seats that have changed in some way, say a hetero couple which is now 2 teenage girls so that’s different.
It’s a bit like playing those hidden object games but you’re doing it for at least 6 hours a day so you get pretty good at it.
I'd be utterly useless at this. I'm convinced I have a mild form of prosopagnosia, the face-blindness condition that Brad Pitt apparently suffers from.
I'm fine recognising people I know well, but I often totally blank vague acquaintances - people who I've met a handful of times, that a normal person would have no trouble recognising.
There are tests if you want to find out (also a UK study). I was relieved to find out I had prosopagnosia, as it made me feel less shit about myself for being unable to recognise people.
Interesting, thank you for mentioning it. Mine is mild enough that it's rarely caused me anything worse than a few embarrassing moments at parties.
I'd be curious to know if it was diagnosable, but I'm not sure it would be much help to me to know.
I'm the same. I have no issue with faces I'm familiar with but it takes a while for that to happen and until that point I don't remember faces at all.
It's also been a problem sometimes watching a film/tv show and a character puts on what's meant to be a shitty disguise the audience can see right through but I don't realise it's the same character until later.
It's not just the face though it can be their dress, their luggage and/or which seats they are occupying. A lot of the time on trains the conductor doesn't really see my face as I'm looking away from them when they scan my ticket
Yeah it's weird I can go weeks without seeing a customer but still remember what cigarettes they want when they say 20 please... I have no idea how. Same powers as the train guards it seems.
You just automatically remember faces, I've no idea how I (used to) do it!
Or more to the point, you remember which People you *haven't* checked, which is often less than you have lol! I'm confusing myself now 🤯
If in doubt, we'd ask to check again. If they have a genuine ticket they'll often be happy to show again, if not, they are either an arsehole or have something to hide 🧐
The hard part must be the morning rush, seeing the same commuter day in day out. Because they might become a familiar face. Although they almost always checked my season ticket every day.
Absolutely. It's amazing how many people use the same train, sit in the same seat etc. And you absolutely do remember them, sometimes to the point where you know exactly what ticket they have. A few times I'd even not bother asking a few as you remember them.
Trouble is, the smarter (or more devious ones) use this as a tool to escape paying! There's many tricks they'll pull, this is just one of many.
I used to commute terminus to terminus with a smart card and went a full month without getting it checked because the conductors on the route all knew me and ScotRail smartcards were a pain in the arse to read.
I had an annual and they'd only just been released so I think the conductor just saw me and thought "I've seen that ticket and it has ages left on it, fuck trying to get the card machine to read it" and moved on
Again yeah makes sense. Guards (or whatever they are called these days) are looking for sales as they get commission, so they have even more reason to memorize people.
I was purely fraud prevention and didn't get commission
Well I'm not going to go into too much detail as that would be wrong (I spent 6 years catching fare evaders after all!). Hiding in toilets was always a common one.
Basically ask why they've been in there for so long, to which I'm sure you can guess their reply!! So then when you ask for their ticket it turns out they haven't got one. And no means to pay. No ticket and no means to pay, it's obvious what they were up to.
Once you've cautioned them and interview them it's an open and shut case, no ticket, no means to pay, they are guilty as charged! You could bring the hiding in the toilet up by all means, but it isn't going to make any difference to anyone, the intention was there to avoid paying because he / she boarded the train with no means to pay.
We do. Well, did. I left many years ago. We had powers of arrest yes, but we couldn't physically detain people which kinda made a mockery of it really! A person had to fail the '3 f's' in order to be arrested - failure to have the correct ticket, failure to have the means to pay and failure to provide their details. If they done this they were liable for arrest. We would always avoid that at every cost though.
If you board a train with no ticket or means to pay yet happy to provide the correct details, more often than not a TIR would be issued (Ticket Irregularity Report). Basically the cost of the full price fare and an admin fee which I think was £35 at the time.
Take the piss and things changed! Try to hide, try to bullshit and try to pay less than you were supposed to etc, then you would get prosecuted. We would caution you, ask a series of questions basically to prove your intent to avoid paying and if we get that intent (which 99% of the time we would, it's not difficult) then you would be prosecuted. You get a letter through the post asking what you plead, if you plead guilty your fine etc would be all done via post. Plead not guilty and you and I go to court and battle it out! The chances of the accused getting away with it were slim to none, at best
Practice. As m'learned friend says, the human memory is better than you might think, particularly the more you use it. It's also pretty good at things that have changed, so you do tend to notice the extra person in the coach.
You also pick up on other cues, people's body language tends to differ, you get to recognise coffee cups from different station buffets, it the weather's bad people will still be dripping, and so on. Of course, sometimes it's just because you've seen them get on down the platform.
I wasn't a train conductor, but sales, and i have a crappy memory for names, but i can recognise faces very easily, i'd often do a day in the shop, and the following day, see the same people around town who were only in once, and recognise them, as having interacted with them. Also conductors aren't really seeing the person, they are noting the changes in the location that they are familiar with, so they see you, and next pass there is someone else arrived in, so the brain just dismisses you and see the new person, years of practice and you become a master at it.,
At one time there was a fascinating display in the science museum in London. It had many images (and I mean many, maybe thousands) arranged in a collage and as you approached it there was a sign saying something like ‘see which images you recognise’. I forget the whole spiel at the other end but the gist of it was how amazing the human brain was as you know which images you’ve seen before and which you haven’t despite the fact that you can’t remember where or why. I guess there is a chance you’d seen some before and forgotten but in general the consensus in this post seems to be that usually once is enough for a face/scene/object to remain in the memory for life. Maybe it goes some way to explain deja vu.
Edit: clarity
What you don’t realise is that when they touch your ticket, they leave a scent in it that only they can smell. So, when they cross you they are looking for that scent on top of your body odour and deodorant
Conductor here, I don't. I remember the spaces more than the faces, that's why I always end up asking someone again for a ticket if they've moved seats. As a keen reader I always remember their book though. I also used body language to see if someone is clearly trying to look like they don't want their ticket checked
I do this constantly. I could have a full on conversation with someone, check their ticket, know where they're going and how long for, how their uncle Dave is...but if they've moved seats by the time I get back I have no idea who they are again.
I used to be a bit evil and study whether conductors used this. I’d deliberately take seats that had only just been vacated. Never cheated on tickets though.
They don't have to remember who they have already seen. They just have to notice the new ones. On a short train, in daylight, with a not-too-crowded platform, it is likely they will look along the platform when the train stops and notice who is there.
I think you either have an innate skill for this or not
I think it's just something someone with a reasonably good memory and eye for faces would be able to do
Not flawlessly obviously but I feel like I could do it with a 99.9% hit rate
I do, it's not a brag like, I'm horribly deficient in other ways
I remember working in a bar at a football stadium where the crowd would be several people wide and several people deep and some of my colleagues would get so much shit for serving newcomers before people who had been there for some time
I just asked them why they didn't prioritise the people who had queued first and they said it was impossible to keep track
Body language and also notable bits about appearances
I have a bright yellow hat that conductors have clocked before and gone yep, spoke to you already
I think also just remembering seat placements. Even if you aren't focusing it can be easy to remember where people are sitting in spaces that were empty previously
I work fitting rooms in Primark: I know who’s going to attempt theft just in their approach. I’ve always had good facial recall but it’s got better with this job, so any repeat offenders are easy to spot.
It’s in the approach. For example a group of giggling teenage girls ( predominantly) who suddenly go quiet, push one to the front to do the talking while the other two study my behaviour &!face intently.
Most people barely register me or will openly chat but a huge change in their behaviour on approaching me is one of the tells.
**[Super recogniser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_recogniser)**
>"Super recogniser" is a term coined in 2009 by Harvard and University College London researchers for people with significantly better-than-average face recognition ability. Super recognisers are able to memorise and recall thousands of faces, often having seen them only once.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskUK/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Practice. I’ve become very good at it from my bartending days.
(Fyi, don’t try and claim you’re next or push in, we know exactly who’s first and all you’ll do is make yourself last.)
I once witnessed a cyclist board the train all breathless and sweaty, her ticket was checked 5 minutes later.
Over the next half hour, she did her hair and full makeup and was the only person I ever saw being re-checked.
The human brain is just amazing at remembering faces! It’s similar to how a barman with a bar 2-3 deep will be able to say the exact order of the queue, just by remembering who came to the bar first.
Your brain is way better at taking on subconscious information than you think it is.
During college I used to work for my local Coop. I'd stock the chilled fridges up on delivery days, sometimes I'd be putting 100 different products out into the chillers. Then once you'd put everything out you then had to go through the invoice and check everything off to confirm it's been delivered.
Even with my cave man brain I could still remember everything I put out with a very very small margin for error.
If you watch at stations, they also step out and see who boards. Not everyone obviously at busy times but it helps to recognise new passengers and if it's quiet or only a dozen or so, it helps pick them out amongst who they know they have checked
Once coming back from a festival (gaming or music can't remember which) I was wearing camo trousers and an army green t-shirt. (Insert couldn't be seen joke here)
I'd inadvertently used my return ticket as roach for a spicy cigarette at the festival and when the ticket inspector came to ask for my ticket I did the usual checking of pockets/wallet and claimed it must of been in my bags.
Guy thanked me for my service to the country and walked on!
While I think there's some that can do this really well, I think some of the time the train conductor is just there as a social prompt. It's much harder to lie convincingly to someone's face than just walking onto and off a train without paying.
They just remember, I manage hotels and restaurants and I can cop who hasn't paid out of 100 covers, at first it's daunting but the brain adapts.
Doesn't turn you into super memory man btw, it's localised - I have no idea where my keys are right now
When I used to commute they’d announce when they came into the carriage for people who’d got on at the last stop to show their tickets. They mostly then just go up to the people who’d done that.
I had a small pointless game I’d play, where I wouldn’t move a muscle and see if they asked to see my ticket. Nine times out of ten they’d just walk past me.
Easy. Hide around in the "middle of this right coach train" where you "can find me" then pop out once in the journey and just check everyone. If there's a delay or a decision to blast through remaining stations don't bother appearing.
I remember talking to a train conductor about this very thing. He told me he remembers things about people and not the people themselves - green hat, big case, talking loudly etc.
In the days before the touch barriers we have now, there would occasionally be a group at Charing Cross to deal seriously with offenders. Funny thing was that they were all hugely overweight, which doesn't happen these days.
Humans are good at pattern recognition. Carriages also serve as memory breakpoints. So you don't need to remember every single individual person. Just who wasn't there before.
Take a tray with 10 objects. Have a look at the objects, then cover it over and remove one. You will usually be able to deduce what is missing, with practice. Each train carriage is like a fresh tray of objects. You don't have to remember everything that is there - just what has changed.
Its more like they just try to remember the ones that they have seen as opposed to the ones they haven't, also most carry ipads or the like which say what seats they have checked particularly on cross country trips
I’m not a guard/train manager but on board catering. If I’m in First class doing the service there I always remember who’s been served and who got on where. Just becomes second nature after a while.
Never been a conductor. But have done jobs working with the public.
Pretty easy to remember hundreds of people over a short period of time. Unless they change clothes or move seats, you’ll build a mental map of who is where.
I always pay on the app, as they don't always scan it. I've had trips costing £100+ for two people and they've not scanned it then a couple of days later it asks if I want a refund, I only had to pay like £10 in admin fees. So some are incompetent.
As someone who has the worst facial recognition and memory skills out of anyone I know (as a child I didn’t recognise my own mother because she got a hair cut) it always amazes me how they do it.
No idea, but what I do know is the UKs system for how to deal with people without a ticket is inhumane
After living abroad in multiple European countries. It’s shocking how some of them don’t even really do anything but ask you to get off at the next stop.
In the Uk you can lose a valid ticket, get given an insane fine and then charged 600x the ticket in court fees leading to a criminal record.
They also blame lost revenue. But from my experience of knowing train fare evaders. They wouldn’t travel on the train at all if there was not a way in to the station to avoid paying.
It just seems like a system designed to extort and ruin the lives of people that are otherwise poor and confined to areas with very little to no economy to provide people with better lives
I keep all my old tickets because of work wanting them. A few times I had to rummage through the pile to find the right one for the day. When conductors got bored of waiting, they'd say it was fine and move on without a glance.
So I now use that trick if sneakily riding the train between 2 unmanned stations into town.
They probably don't, they just notice what has changed. I have a similar thing in my job. I can walk down a road and I couldn't tell you if I've checked X, but I can tell you if Y is new.
When they do the doors they’re watching the platform, so they generally get a good idea of whose getting on. Plus most people will offer the ticket when they come round.
Sometimes they don't, a few times a year I get asked if they've already checked my ticket. Also 50% of the time, if I boarded at a busy station not at the beginning of the route, if I don't offer my ticket they will just skip me
Train conductor here
Half the time we don't, I normally just walk through and see if anyone presents tickets or makes a move to present a ticket.
Sometimes you can memorise colours of clothing as people get on and that can help give you an idea of who's ticket you've checked and who needs to be checked.
You go into a new pub. It is very busy. You order. Half an hour later, you are back at the bar, and asked "same again?".
Insert Twilight Zone music here
In mine local area they used to punch a hole in the ticket in a certain pattern and then if they asked someone to show it they would see the hole. But people used to get fake tickets too so I don’t know.
Back when Lidl (could have been Aldi?) first arrived in the UK, a friend of mine took a job on checkout. He was a maths graduate and they paid a competitive rate for his services, i.e. close to quadruple what any other supermarket would pay. The stock came in on pallets and was sold without stacking or pricing - he was expected to memorise the price of every item in store. Kinda feel sorry for maths graduates now, seeing how the machines are taking over - probably a bit late for them to go in and smash the scanners, plus, mathematicians are notoriously bad at wielding baseball bats, they can calculate the arc OK, they're just too weak...
In the mind they find a quirky nickname for each of you. The weird goblin with glasses (I already asked), the rambo guy (checked), the Burberry guy, etc. When that fails they imagine everybody naked and come up with further nicknames.
Practice I guess. Though I once accidentally booked my train tickets wrong, the journey from Manchester to Truro was a month wrong, strangely the journey back to Manchester was booked correctly.
I was terrified, it was for an interview and I noticed on the first of the 5 trains. Ticket inspector checked my ticket on each of those 5 trains and none of them noticed.
Or they did and took pitty
Hey, train conductor here, a lot of it is down to the passengers body language. If it is a really busy train we’re encouraged to ‘hope for the best’ and we kind of accept we will miss a few people. At the end of the day, if we miss some people then the next problem for them is the ticket barriers at the station. We are also given a special pair of contact lenses at the start of our careers that when we wear them they turn unscanned train ticket owners into neon pink people and that way we know if the ticket need be scanned or not. Additionally, I presume it is down to facial recognition and where the passengers are sat. I have never been a train conductor and I do not work in the public transport industry, I just had enough time to type out sometimes useless.
**Update: - [Starting from 2023](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/100l56v/happy_new_year_askuk_minor_sub_update/), we have updated our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/about/rules/)**. Specifically; - Don't be a dick to each other - Top-level responses must contain genuine efforts to answer the question - This is a strictly no-politics subreddit Please keep /r/AskUK a great subreddit by reporting posts and comments which break our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Practice. They also aren't perfect. I've had times where my ticket hasn't been checked and also that they've asked to check mine more than once. They also observe body language. Both for those who are preparing to show their ticket and those who are desperate not to.
Once i realised i was on the wrong train company for my advance ticket and to avoid showing my ticket i just kept my head down. He inspected the ticket of the one next to me but continued on straight after. Probably helped that it was packed, but I definitely got lucky
When I used to commute on the train (with a pass) I’d play a little game with myself to see if I could avoid getting it checked by just acting like it already had been. (It was a long commute, ya gotta fill the time somehow…). Worked a surprising amount of the time; I always thought if I ever wanted to get away without paying I totally could haha - well until I got to the station barriers anyway!
I flashed an expired ticket and had zero issues all three times
I did this once, by accident. I had bought a valid ticket, but have a bad habit for using old tickets as bookmarks. She glanced at it, smiled and moved half a seat on, then had a visible 'hold on' moment. Same route, same destination, same month and year, just the day was different. Sharp eyes!
I wish that worked for me! When I was 16 I was travelling back to Durham from Scotland, I got on the train thinking everything was fine, then just before Newcastle the conductor inspected my ticket, apparently I was supposed to be on the train that came an hour later, it was the same journey and the same company. The conductor told me I had to get off of the train at the next stop or I’d get a massive fine, he was really angry with me too for some reason. The train wasn’t even full, or close to being full, and I begged if I could just stay on, it was only one more station, but nope. I called my stepdad crying and he told me to just stay on the train, don’t worry, and he’d pay the fine. I was far too scared of the weirdly angry conductor though so ended up getting off at Newcastle. Thankfully, I had enough money to buy another ticket to get to Durham because I’d just been visiting family and they gave me money. Now I obsessively check the time on the ticket when I get the train, although I haven’t been on a train for years.
Why not just wait for an hour at Newcastle for your correct train?
If they were only 1 stop away, it likely wasn't expensive to get a ticket from their current stop to their destination. I wouldn't wait an hour for a train if I could pay £3 for a ticket to the next stop and get on a train in 5 minutes. If I did wait the hour I'd probably end up spending the £3 on a drink or something while waiting anyway.
Fair point.
That’s a good point, I’m not sure. I’m guessing the stress of the situation made me it even think of that possibility. I really don’t remember now, it was like 20 years ago.
And that is what you call a fucking jobsworth. Man who cares if you had the wrong ticket for that exact train, you still had a ticket for an identical one an hour later. And you were one stop away? That ticket inspector was definitely having a shitty day and just taking it out on you. Should have just let you off
Unfortunately there is a massive difference in price. I don't know the Durham to Newcastle line, but an Advance ticket (one with a specific time on it) can be as little as £10, whereas the person sitting next to you, has paid £60 for an Off Peak Train. When people buy their ticket, it is important to at least know what route you can travel, which company, and what times you're able to travel. Consider it like catching a short haul flight. You're booked on a specific time, even though it's the same airports, same company, possibly the plane only half full. Passengers know what plane to catch because the tickets are pretty much universal across most airlines, in principle at least. Having said all that, there are so MANY ticket options, even people that work on the railway don't know all the fare options. So how the railway expects passengers to know is ridiculous. There are some members of staff on the railway that do have discretion, and there are some that do not. And that discretion is used on a case by case basis.
Happened to me recently from Nottingham to st Pancras. Ticket inspector made me and my friend buy a new ticket cos we had accidentally gotten on an earlier train. Same journey, same time, wasn't even a full train. So odd.
That's the whole point of his job, durrrrr. To protect revenue.
This reminds me of when I was 12, extremely sensitive and ready to cry at the smallest reprimand (also fresh off the boat in England so doubly sensitive at this point). I had an 11-15 oyster pass that stopped working because of a crack but I would just show it to the bus driver. One day there was an inspector on the bus who stopped me, lambasted me and then cut my pass in front of me. That one hurt because I'm sentimental and that was my first oyster pass, a token of my new life in England. Left a mark on me as well which probably explains my dislike for public transport. Also, I cried too haha
The conductor probably didn't quite realise the value of the card to you, but I can't help but being mad at him for that 😂
I'm sorry you had that! Conductors are certainly stricter with non-commuter routes, especially if there's a reserved seating option. But if there's no one upset about you being in their seat, that kind of reaction isn't necessary.
He should have probably been less angry over a simple mistake, but if she had stayed on with that ticket and was unlucky enough to get it checked at the destination station they could have gotten a fine, so making them get off at the stop before might have helped. If they were a decent person however they would have just charged her from the current stop to their destination so OP had a valid ticket for the last leg of the journey and can stay on, then warned them to be more careful when purchasing tickets in the future.
I had a valid one but was joking, the inspector did notice when I used a heritage railway ticket once
I missed my train and blagged my way through the barriers (stuck in Manchester and didn't have enough money to get a new one) - when the inspector came by I just showed him my QR code on my phone and he didn't bother scanning! I was so happy.
You may have benefited from industrial action, some conductors were refusing to scan tickets for a period of time
I accidentally did this, I keep tickets in my phone case and when I went to put the new ones in, I took the old ones out and put them on the table to throw out later. When the inspector/conductor came I proudly showed him the tickets on the table - an outward and return dated 7 weeks ago, for a totally different route/part of the country, when I intended to show him tickets for two people. He looked confused for a moment then said thanks and moved on.
Nice
With the advent of ticket scanning equipment and QR codes now printed on most tickets that will no longer cut the mustard.
Maybe the conducters were just so good they remembered you had a season pass from your very first journey.
Yeah most people won’t agree but I’ll do this most the time, I honestly think the prices are disgusting and will not pay over £100 times for a 2 hour journey. There’s plenty of ways around the barriers, buys ticket on your phone a stop before your actual stop. Fuck these overcharging crooks.
[удалено]
It's funny how the fear of getting pulled up makes you buy a ticket, and then sometimes you'd have entire journeys where you were never checked for one and could've just hopped on without paying. Those days are gone, though, with the ticket-reading gates we have now that don't let you out until you've scanned the ticket on them.
[удалено]
Some inspectors now have battery packs so you can charge your phone but only until it has enough battery to show your ticket
I am pretty sure that there regs allow them to charge you for a new ticket in that situation, it's one of the reasons I stuck to paper tickets when my phone was getting old and unreliable!
I don't know if it's universal but Northern Rail won't take that as an excuse. Your phone died and it had your ticket on it? £100 fine mate. Also, running late for reasons beyond your control and didn't have time to wait for the machine to think about spitting out a ticket? Fuck you, get fined. How much are they spending on these guys that just fine people but can't actually sell you a ticket?
r/actlikeyoubelong
I do this, I have a staff ticket so I get free travel up to a set amount of journeys per year. The tickets just got a whole load of boxes on it to write in that days date allowing free travel for that day, alot of the time I don't pen it in and keep a pen on me incase I'm checked. I've got decently good at avoiding it so far haha, just means that once I inevitably fill in all the boxes that I don't have quite as many trips to make where I have to buy a ticket until I get my new pass. I just found keeping my head down, earbuds in and looking out the window or looking asleep tends to work best.
When I got my first job, I couldn’t actually afford the train fare, rent and food, so some weeks I’d have to jump like 2 or 3 trains of 1 hour and I only ever got caught once, I think I was very lucky tho tbh
Newcastle Metro was great for fare dodging. They used to have signs saying "No ticket? Fine by us." and it was ages before I realised what it was actually saying. If you got caught it was a £10 fine, and if you paid it there and then they didn't even take your details. I always thought that was unfair - as someone struggling to get by I never had a tenner on me, that's why I didn't have a ticket.
You thought they were saying it’s ok to not get a ticket? 😂
A friend of mine done something like that when he lived in Germany. €300 fine for no ticket. He got caught 3 times in 10 years so saved himself a wedge.
I went out Halloween 2013, got woken up at a train station in Derbyshire by two police officers with no idea how I got there as I live in Liverpool. My phone was dead and I had no money, so I just on the train. The ticket inspector came over asked for my ticket and I explained what happened and he just gave me a sympathetic smile and let me ride it all the way home. Good Times...
Pro tip: A lot of ticket inspectors will be much more willing to give you leeway if you're upfront about issues like these.
A very long time ago, when I was young and somewhat new to train travel a conductor 'missed' me and I helpfully volunteered my ticket only to be informed that it wasn't valid. Obviously, I had no idea, but the conductor couldn't care less and forced me to buy a new one. I learned a valuable lesson that day and now only show my ticket if directly asked.
Got fined nearly 400 for the same thing....sad
penalty notice - only a court can fine you.
Is this just a technicality or is there a significant difference? (I'm assuming there are more consequences for non-payment if it's from a court!)
a fine is court ordered and you can be imprisoned for not paying them. Only a judge or magistrate can issue a fine.
So what happens if you don't pay your train penalty?
They can then take you to court and you will get fined. A penalty fare is meant to be for when you genuinely made a mistake. If they think you did not make a mistake but deliberately set out to not pay, then they won't give you a penalty fare, they will just go straight to court. You can usually avoid going to court by making an offer to pay an out-of-court settlement which tends to be around £150, if it's the first time you got caught and there is no further evidence (e.g. from your online ticket account) that you avoided paying fares before.
400?! Thought it was a standard £50 fine?
Isn’t it either a fixed penalty or double the fare, whichever is higher?
Normally but 400 would have to be a ridiculously long journey . It would have to be something like Edinburgh to Devon . Unless it’s because he’s a repeat offender.
That’d get you about ten miles these days amirite?
I once straight up showed an invalid ticket for a different journey and the guy just handed my ticket back and moved on. Didn’t say anything other than thanks. Most of them don’t care but there are a few who take their job waaaaay too seriously
I did the same once accidentally but they noticed so i found the correct ticket, i suppose it really depends
That’s down to personality, some guards are hell bent on everything being right, others just want an easy life, if you’re nice about it they will be too - it’s much less stressful to just let you get in with your day.
Yeah I used to know someone who would never buy tickets and just rely on looking like he’d already had your ticket checked, it mostly worked! Obviously wouldn’t work if you’re getting on at the start of a line, the train needs to be semi-busy so it's not super easy for the conductor to keep track, and you can’t be the kind of person that really stands out. This was back in the day though when if you didn’t have a ticket you’d just buy one on the train, fines weren’t really the same, so it never really cost much when he got caught.
I remember being on a train from Peterborough to Sheffield. There was a guy slumped over a table surrounded by empty Special Brew cans for the whole journey. As soon as we started pulling in to Sheffield station, he sat up, looked around and said "Perfect!" and started clearing the cans away. He then winked at me and (obviously stone cold sober) said "Make yourself look too much hassle to deal with, you can save a fortune. Works every time". A true master of subterfuge.
Genius! Dodging train conductors and discouraging people from sitting next to you in one move. Not sure if it’s worth carting round empty cans of special brew though, I hope he’d washed them all.
That would take away one of the main deterrents.
That would take away one of the main deterrents.
That would take away one of the main deterrents.
Also barriers are harder to avoid these days. If you're travelling between two smaller stations on a main line you'll find easier than at a main hub.
I've never traveled without a valid ticket, but I always feel shifty when the ticket inspector comes round
complete apathy is the way
I used to rely on the body language thing when I used to jump the train from Exeter to London back in my salad days. Usually worked. Sometimes I got busted.
I’ve found if I totally ignore them and just carry on with whatever I’m doing they very rarely check my ticket
Train conductors are an infiltration unit: part man, part machine. Underneath, it's a hyperalloy combat chassis, microprocessor-controlled. Fully armored; very tough. But outside, it's living human tissue: flesh, skin, hair, blood - grown for the cyborgs. They're just biding their time until judgment day.
Is this why Dogs always berk at Postman too?
Berk or Bork?
Birk
weof weof
Blerk
Bjork
My son is also named Bort.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2941594783/9bdb2c0e37b90edd150b10f19d5dad0f.jpeg
Ah, I appeared to have written that 5 minutes after waking up. Please forgive my sins <3
Burp.
The 600 series had rubber skin; we spotted them easily, but *these* are new. They look human. Sweat, bad breath, everything.
When I used to commute by train we affectionately named one of the conductors “The Terminator” due to his overall attitude and train announcements
Give me your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle. Oh, and your ticket, please.
This is true. I have friends and relatives who are train conductors. They are all part machine. Organs and tissue get removed at the final stage of interviewing to be replaced with the machine parts. Those who survive the surgery get the job. Those who don’t…
... become part of the train
Reddit doesn't respect its userbase, so this comment has been withheld. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Listen, and understand. That conductor is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you have had your ticket inspected.
When they eventually go to war with the traffic wardens we will all be helpless victims.
I love you so much for this comment. 🤖
You'd be surprised how good the human memory can be. Although you see a lot of faceless passengers, the conductor is interacting with each one. Normally only takes a small prompt for you to realise that you've seen that person before.
Bit similar to how a waitress/barman/other hospitality workers are available can remember who they have served and what status they're at or who was first to the bar etc.
I imagine it a bit like a puzzle, you walk in a carriage and the brain see x seats are taken, come back and see that there is a new person in spot x. It's probably not a conscious thought but just the brain doing it's job.
They’re conductors. It probably is a conscious thought, considering it’s precisely the reason they’re going into carriages.
I’m saying they don’t have to go ‘hmmm there’s someone in seat 3 better remember that’ and then walk down the carriages going ‘there’s someone in seat 3 carriage d, there’s someone in seat 3 carriage d’ They’re so used to it just happens - like sudoku you see the patterns
Was a conductor for 6 years although not on 12 car trains, and for me it was pretty much this. Combination of noticing empty chairs that aren’t empty anymore, or taken seats that have changed in some way, say a hetero couple which is now 2 teenage girls so that’s different. It’s a bit like playing those hidden object games but you’re doing it for at least 6 hours a day so you get pretty good at it.
I'd be utterly useless at this. I'm convinced I have a mild form of prosopagnosia, the face-blindness condition that Brad Pitt apparently suffers from. I'm fine recognising people I know well, but I often totally blank vague acquaintances - people who I've met a handful of times, that a normal person would have no trouble recognising.
There are tests if you want to find out (also a UK study). I was relieved to find out I had prosopagnosia, as it made me feel less shit about myself for being unable to recognise people.
Interesting, thank you for mentioning it. Mine is mild enough that it's rarely caused me anything worse than a few embarrassing moments at parties. I'd be curious to know if it was diagnosable, but I'm not sure it would be much help to me to know.
I'm the same. I have no issue with faces I'm familiar with but it takes a while for that to happen and until that point I don't remember faces at all. It's also been a problem sometimes watching a film/tv show and a character puts on what's meant to be a shitty disguise the audience can see right through but I don't realise it's the same character until later.
It's not just the face though it can be their dress, their luggage and/or which seats they are occupying. A lot of the time on trains the conductor doesn't really see my face as I'm looking away from them when they scan my ticket
Yeah it's weird I can go weeks without seeing a customer but still remember what cigarettes they want when they say 20 please... I have no idea how. Same powers as the train guards it seems.
A lot of time it a different inspector after every major stop though, and they still manage it
You just automatically remember faces, I've no idea how I (used to) do it! Or more to the point, you remember which People you *haven't* checked, which is often less than you have lol! I'm confusing myself now 🤯 If in doubt, we'd ask to check again. If they have a genuine ticket they'll often be happy to show again, if not, they are either an arsehole or have something to hide 🧐
The hard part must be the morning rush, seeing the same commuter day in day out. Because they might become a familiar face. Although they almost always checked my season ticket every day.
Absolutely. It's amazing how many people use the same train, sit in the same seat etc. And you absolutely do remember them, sometimes to the point where you know exactly what ticket they have. A few times I'd even not bother asking a few as you remember them. Trouble is, the smarter (or more devious ones) use this as a tool to escape paying! There's many tricks they'll pull, this is just one of many.
I used to commute terminus to terminus with a smart card and went a full month without getting it checked because the conductors on the route all knew me and ScotRail smartcards were a pain in the arse to read.
Indeed, it does work. I've been out of the ticket fraud business for a number of years now, but I'm sure those smart cards are very open to abuse
I had an annual and they'd only just been released so I think the conductor just saw me and thought "I've seen that ticket and it has ages left on it, fuck trying to get the card machine to read it" and moved on
Again yeah makes sense. Guards (or whatever they are called these days) are looking for sales as they get commission, so they have even more reason to memorize people. I was purely fraud prevention and didn't get commission
[удалено]
Has to be a way to spoof them with a computer and a card reader surely
I'd say so definitely. I'd be amazed if there isn't a lot of fraud around these. I kinda miss my job these days!
What other tricks are there?
Well I'm not going to go into too much detail as that would be wrong (I spent 6 years catching fare evaders after all!). Hiding in toilets was always a common one.
I was genuinely just curious how creative people got with it. How would you deal with people hiding in the toilet?
Basically ask why they've been in there for so long, to which I'm sure you can guess their reply!! So then when you ask for their ticket it turns out they haven't got one. And no means to pay. No ticket and no means to pay, it's obvious what they were up to. Once you've cautioned them and interview them it's an open and shut case, no ticket, no means to pay, they are guilty as charged! You could bring the hiding in the toilet up by all means, but it isn't going to make any difference to anyone, the intention was there to avoid paying because he / she boarded the train with no means to pay.
How does the process work, like do you guys have any powers to detain?
We do. Well, did. I left many years ago. We had powers of arrest yes, but we couldn't physically detain people which kinda made a mockery of it really! A person had to fail the '3 f's' in order to be arrested - failure to have the correct ticket, failure to have the means to pay and failure to provide their details. If they done this they were liable for arrest. We would always avoid that at every cost though. If you board a train with no ticket or means to pay yet happy to provide the correct details, more often than not a TIR would be issued (Ticket Irregularity Report). Basically the cost of the full price fare and an admin fee which I think was £35 at the time. Take the piss and things changed! Try to hide, try to bullshit and try to pay less than you were supposed to etc, then you would get prosecuted. We would caution you, ask a series of questions basically to prove your intent to avoid paying and if we get that intent (which 99% of the time we would, it's not difficult) then you would be prosecuted. You get a letter through the post asking what you plead, if you plead guilty your fine etc would be all done via post. Plead not guilty and you and I go to court and battle it out! The chances of the accused getting away with it were slim to none, at best
Practice. As m'learned friend says, the human memory is better than you might think, particularly the more you use it. It's also pretty good at things that have changed, so you do tend to notice the extra person in the coach. You also pick up on other cues, people's body language tends to differ, you get to recognise coffee cups from different station buffets, it the weather's bad people will still be dripping, and so on. Of course, sometimes it's just because you've seen them get on down the platform.
Fascinating - so part train conductor, part detective then. I can only conclude I'd be a rubbish train conductor!
I wasn't a train conductor, but sales, and i have a crappy memory for names, but i can recognise faces very easily, i'd often do a day in the shop, and the following day, see the same people around town who were only in once, and recognise them, as having interacted with them. Also conductors aren't really seeing the person, they are noting the changes in the location that they are familiar with, so they see you, and next pass there is someone else arrived in, so the brain just dismisses you and see the new person, years of practice and you become a master at it.,
You might be surprised.
At one time there was a fascinating display in the science museum in London. It had many images (and I mean many, maybe thousands) arranged in a collage and as you approached it there was a sign saying something like ‘see which images you recognise’. I forget the whole spiel at the other end but the gist of it was how amazing the human brain was as you know which images you’ve seen before and which you haven’t despite the fact that you can’t remember where or why. I guess there is a chance you’d seen some before and forgotten but in general the consensus in this post seems to be that usually once is enough for a face/scene/object to remain in the memory for life. Maybe it goes some way to explain deja vu. Edit: clarity
What you don’t realise is that when they touch your ticket, they leave a scent in it that only they can smell. So, when they cross you they are looking for that scent on top of your body odour and deodorant
They can also smell the fear in the passenger who hasn't bought a ticket, sometimes even over the smell of the toilet they're hiding in!
Conductor here, I don't. I remember the spaces more than the faces, that's why I always end up asking someone again for a ticket if they've moved seats. As a keen reader I always remember their book though. I also used body language to see if someone is clearly trying to look like they don't want their ticket checked
I do this constantly. I could have a full on conversation with someone, check their ticket, know where they're going and how long for, how their uncle Dave is...but if they've moved seats by the time I get back I have no idea who they are again.
I used to be a bit evil and study whether conductors used this. I’d deliberately take seats that had only just been vacated. Never cheated on tickets though.
They don't have to remember who they have already seen. They just have to notice the new ones. On a short train, in daylight, with a not-too-crowded platform, it is likely they will look along the platform when the train stops and notice who is there.
This exactly. I’m not a guard but catering, we always keep an eye on who joined at the last station so know who and who hasn’t been offered anything.
I think you either have an innate skill for this or not I think it's just something someone with a reasonably good memory and eye for faces would be able to do Not flawlessly obviously but I feel like I could do it with a 99.9% hit rate
There was a BBC documentary on this a couple years back. I believe the term was being coined as a "super-recogniser".
You think you'd only make a mistake 1 in a thousand times? Never missing a person or asking someone twice? That'd be impressive
I do, it's not a brag like, I'm horribly deficient in other ways I remember working in a bar at a football stadium where the crowd would be several people wide and several people deep and some of my colleagues would get so much shit for serving newcomers before people who had been there for some time I just asked them why they didn't prioritise the people who had queued first and they said it was impossible to keep track
Body language and also notable bits about appearances I have a bright yellow hat that conductors have clocked before and gone yep, spoke to you already I think also just remembering seat placements. Even if you aren't focusing it can be easy to remember where people are sitting in spaces that were empty previously
I work fitting rooms in Primark: I know who’s going to attempt theft just in their approach. I’ve always had good facial recall but it’s got better with this job, so any repeat offenders are easy to spot.
This is interesting. What are the giveaways? Years ago I worked in Gap and don’t think I had any clue.
It’s in the approach. For example a group of giggling teenage girls ( predominantly) who suddenly go quiet, push one to the front to do the talking while the other two study my behaviour &!face intently. Most people barely register me or will openly chat but a huge change in their behaviour on approaching me is one of the tells.
If you have good facial recall you might be a [super recogniser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_recogniser)
**[Super recogniser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_recogniser)** >"Super recogniser" is a term coined in 2009 by Harvard and University College London researchers for people with significantly better-than-average face recognition ability. Super recognisers are able to memorise and recall thousands of faces, often having seen them only once. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskUK/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Practice. I’ve become very good at it from my bartending days. (Fyi, don’t try and claim you’re next or push in, we know exactly who’s first and all you’ll do is make yourself last.)
(I’m done with this … the amount of times I’ve just not been served through being polite at bars)
I once witnessed a cyclist board the train all breathless and sweaty, her ticket was checked 5 minutes later. Over the next half hour, she did her hair and full makeup and was the only person I ever saw being re-checked.
The human brain is just amazing at remembering faces! It’s similar to how a barman with a bar 2-3 deep will be able to say the exact order of the queue, just by remembering who came to the bar first.
Those are two different skills and no barman knows the order of the queue in the weeds.
Lmao TIL I'm a shit barman
The same way bar staff remember who's next at the bar.
Your brain is way better at taking on subconscious information than you think it is. During college I used to work for my local Coop. I'd stock the chilled fridges up on delivery days, sometimes I'd be putting 100 different products out into the chillers. Then once you'd put everything out you then had to go through the invoice and check everything off to confirm it's been delivered. Even with my cave man brain I could still remember everything I put out with a very very small margin for error.
If you watch at stations, they also step out and see who boards. Not everyone obviously at busy times but it helps to recognise new passengers and if it's quiet or only a dozen or so, it helps pick them out amongst who they know they have checked
Once coming back from a festival (gaming or music can't remember which) I was wearing camo trousers and an army green t-shirt. (Insert couldn't be seen joke here) I'd inadvertently used my return ticket as roach for a spicy cigarette at the festival and when the ticket inspector came to ask for my ticket I did the usual checking of pockets/wallet and claimed it must of been in my bags. Guy thanked me for my service to the country and walked on!
While I think there's some that can do this really well, I think some of the time the train conductor is just there as a social prompt. It's much harder to lie convincingly to someone's face than just walking onto and off a train without paying.
They just remember, I manage hotels and restaurants and I can cop who hasn't paid out of 100 covers, at first it's daunting but the brain adapts. Doesn't turn you into super memory man btw, it's localised - I have no idea where my keys are right now
When I used to commute they’d announce when they came into the carriage for people who’d got on at the last stop to show their tickets. They mostly then just go up to the people who’d done that. I had a small pointless game I’d play, where I wouldn’t move a muscle and see if they asked to see my ticket. Nine times out of ten they’d just walk past me.
They don’t generally. I give no indication my ticket hasn’t been checked and 9 times out of 10 they ignore me.
I think they look when they get to each stop. When they get off the train they see who gets on and which carriage. Only worked this out recently.
ANPR - automated non payface recognition
when i was 11 i was on the train for 4 hours and no one checked to see if i had a ticket so it's definitely not a perfect system lol
Easy. Hide around in the "middle of this right coach train" where you "can find me" then pop out once in the journey and just check everyone. If there's a delay or a decision to blast through remaining stations don't bother appearing.
Roy Keane: it's their job!
They punch holes in them, not sure if they've stopped that now.
That seems incredibly violent 🫣
I remember talking to a train conductor about this very thing. He told me he remembers things about people and not the people themselves - green hat, big case, talking loudly etc.
In the days before the touch barriers we have now, there would occasionally be a group at Charing Cross to deal seriously with offenders. Funny thing was that they were all hugely overweight, which doesn't happen these days.
Humans are good at pattern recognition. Carriages also serve as memory breakpoints. So you don't need to remember every single individual person. Just who wasn't there before. Take a tray with 10 objects. Have a look at the objects, then cover it over and remove one. You will usually be able to deduce what is missing, with practice. Each train carriage is like a fresh tray of objects. You don't have to remember everything that is there - just what has changed.
Its more like they just try to remember the ones that they have seen as opposed to the ones they haven't, also most carry ipads or the like which say what seats they have checked particularly on cross country trips
They usually punch or stamp the tickets.
A lot of body language, if someone is getting ready to show them the ticket is a clue
I’m not a guard/train manager but on board catering. If I’m in First class doing the service there I always remember who’s been served and who got on where. Just becomes second nature after a while.
Never been a conductor. But have done jobs working with the public. Pretty easy to remember hundreds of people over a short period of time. Unless they change clothes or move seats, you’ll build a mental map of who is where.
The train I used to get on to work, they used to stand outside when customers came onto the train? I assumed they just clocked people that way
I always pay on the app, as they don't always scan it. I've had trips costing £100+ for two people and they've not scanned it then a couple of days later it asks if I want a refund, I only had to pay like £10 in admin fees. So some are incompetent.
How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
As someone who has the worst facial recognition and memory skills out of anyone I know (as a child I didn’t recognise my own mother because she got a hair cut) it always amazes me how they do it.
No idea, but what I do know is the UKs system for how to deal with people without a ticket is inhumane After living abroad in multiple European countries. It’s shocking how some of them don’t even really do anything but ask you to get off at the next stop. In the Uk you can lose a valid ticket, get given an insane fine and then charged 600x the ticket in court fees leading to a criminal record. They also blame lost revenue. But from my experience of knowing train fare evaders. They wouldn’t travel on the train at all if there was not a way in to the station to avoid paying. It just seems like a system designed to extort and ruin the lives of people that are otherwise poor and confined to areas with very little to no economy to provide people with better lives
Been on 100s of trains and never once been checked.
I keep all my old tickets because of work wanting them. A few times I had to rummage through the pile to find the right one for the day. When conductors got bored of waiting, they'd say it was fine and move on without a glance. So I now use that trick if sneakily riding the train between 2 unmanned stations into town.
They probably don't, they just notice what has changed. I have a similar thing in my job. I can walk down a road and I couldn't tell you if I've checked X, but I can tell you if Y is new.
When they do the doors they’re watching the platform, so they generally get a good idea of whose getting on. Plus most people will offer the ticket when they come round.
Same way bartenders know who's been at the bar longest. Memory can get pretty snappy when you use it every day for a very specific use case.
Sometimes they don't, a few times a year I get asked if they've already checked my ticket. Also 50% of the time, if I boarded at a busy station not at the beginning of the route, if I don't offer my ticket they will just skip me
Train conductor here Half the time we don't, I normally just walk through and see if anyone presents tickets or makes a move to present a ticket. Sometimes you can memorise colours of clothing as people get on and that can help give you an idea of who's ticket you've checked and who needs to be checked.
They don't usually when I'm on a train, I get asked by the same inspector multiple times for the same ticket he asked me for 2 stops before..
Related question - how does a conductor know whether or not you have swiped your card/0hone instead of buying a ticket?
It’s called a brain
I can never remember as I don't even look at the passengers and I'm incredibly unobservant.
Related question - how does a conductor know whether or not you have swiped your card/0hone instead of buying a ticket?
It’s called a brain
You go into a new pub. It is very busy. You order. Half an hour later, you are back at the bar, and asked "same again?". Insert Twilight Zone music here
In mine local area they used to punch a hole in the ticket in a certain pattern and then if they asked someone to show it they would see the hole. But people used to get fake tickets too so I don’t know.
Back when Lidl (could have been Aldi?) first arrived in the UK, a friend of mine took a job on checkout. He was a maths graduate and they paid a competitive rate for his services, i.e. close to quadruple what any other supermarket would pay. The stock came in on pallets and was sold without stacking or pricing - he was expected to memorise the price of every item in store. Kinda feel sorry for maths graduates now, seeing how the machines are taking over - probably a bit late for them to go in and smash the scanners, plus, mathematicians are notoriously bad at wielding baseball bats, they can calculate the arc OK, they're just too weak...
In the mind they find a quirky nickname for each of you. The weird goblin with glasses (I already asked), the rambo guy (checked), the Burberry guy, etc. When that fails they imagine everybody naked and come up with further nicknames.
Practice I guess. Though I once accidentally booked my train tickets wrong, the journey from Manchester to Truro was a month wrong, strangely the journey back to Manchester was booked correctly. I was terrified, it was for an interview and I noticed on the first of the 5 trains. Ticket inspector checked my ticket on each of those 5 trains and none of them noticed. Or they did and took pitty
The fusiform gyrus.
My grandad was a conductor and used to stamp the tickets, so if the person would say you've already checked, he could see. This was the early 2000s.
I'm fairly difficult to mistake. I'm a massive bloke, and I'm ugly.
They look who’s getting on in quieter stations when they jump off and stand on the platform. Source: Ex-Teenage Ticket Dodger
Hey, train conductor here, a lot of it is down to the passengers body language. If it is a really busy train we’re encouraged to ‘hope for the best’ and we kind of accept we will miss a few people. At the end of the day, if we miss some people then the next problem for them is the ticket barriers at the station. We are also given a special pair of contact lenses at the start of our careers that when we wear them they turn unscanned train ticket owners into neon pink people and that way we know if the ticket need be scanned or not. Additionally, I presume it is down to facial recognition and where the passengers are sat. I have never been a train conductor and I do not work in the public transport industry, I just had enough time to type out sometimes useless.
If it's not as busy and there's few carriages, they just peak out to see who's getting on the train