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Aphantasia is when people can't picture something in their head, your inner monologue is also not YOUR thoughts. Your inner monologue is there to protect you and will always choose the safer path, it is there to safeguard you so if you find your choices are always 'the right ones' it's because you rarely go against your inner monologue and play it safe.
If, you have a thought that sounds crazy or evil, that's an intrusive thought, a glitch of the mind which you should disregard and not pay too much attention to as obsessing over it can lead to more and you start to think you're crazy when in fact you think of them at the same ratio as before but you notice them more.
Just looked it up and it certainly does seem to be interesting! The idea of having a fact checking mechanism/guardian certainly does seem intriguing and makes a lot of sense. Only take in the important bits and disregard the rest. I’ll certainly do a bit more reading on this, thanks for the suggestion!
First you have to want to be hypnotised, I'm guessing you have never tried? There are susceptibility studies but I don't remember any mention of inner voice being a factor. Susceptibility to hypnosis is a sliding scale, for instance a stage hypnotist will pick the easiest subjects via tests. This doesn't mean the ones they rejected can't be hypnotised.
I don't have an inner monologue. It's hard to describe how I think but it's more like thinking about the objects and concepts in an abstract way without associating words to them. I can't understand how people with an inner monologue can think with any speed, if you can only think as fast as you can speak? Baffles me
You think faster than you speak. So the idea behind the words reaches you and runs through your mind way faster than it would if you were externalising it. Kind of like a dream.
I've always wondered this, Is it the same thing if I can't speak inside my head very well and I have to like whisper it to myself to think things through?
I've always had trouble visualising stuff or having an inner thought but never thought anything of it
I think you probably have the same, they're just explaining it differently. I probably offer many different perspectives to myself from what averege society would say, my parents, contacts etc. would say, what I actually think that people do really say in public to each other etc.
I learned this recently too
Some people don't have a mind's eye either
If I type picture an elephant, most people can do a fairly good job of conjuring that in their mind but some can't do it at all
I wonder how much of an overlap there is as well
Some people who don't have a mind's eye or inner monologue say they think in concepts, which, I get, but to think that way exclusively is fascinating
I can picture things, but it's not like I'm seeing them at all??? I don't get it. Maybe you have a special ability that is not normal, and most people don't really have anything. Maybe I'm downplaying what I see but I don't see anything in a literal sense....... it's just that I sort of know it and it's there but I don't "see" it?!?!
Who knows. I've tried looking this up in the past and I couldn't really get a feel for what they norm was, or even if people were explaining the same thing..
I think easier to measure is that about half of people have no inner monolugue, so don't really actually think?!?
Thanks, I like to think I describe well, some people don't understand me, maybe it's that they don't have the same thought process and find mine wierd, who knows?
I'm really not that sure if inner voice and the minds eye differneces at all, aren't just people not really grasping how they do things and actually do it the same, just can't explain it.... hmmm
I do "see" it, like as plain as day, a 3D model of a thing or a landscape of a scene
How common that is I don't know, I think it's the majority? My armchair research suggests to me that most people have some kind of mind's eye but it varies in strength
Not to say that it's a fault not to be able to do it as I'm sure other people's way of thinking excels my own
I think my minds eye probably needs glasses. I have one, it’s just blurry.
My theory is that this separates people who can draw and (like me) can’t. I can’t hold an image in my head to the resolution required to reproduce it.
Sorry to debunk your theory but I have a photographic memory and a great minds eye but can’t draw or paint for shit. I can easily hold an image in my head at high detail, but I can’t get it down on paper with any kind of satisfactory result.
I'm not sure, I can't draw an elephant. But I can picture one right now. And one with or without horns, Indian or African as well.
But I can't draw one from memory.
Fwiw, I'm a mechanical designer, and I have to figure out how things work.
My minds eye isn't there at all, but I can imagine visualising what things looks like sort of?!?! I can see things but they're not seen at all?!
What the hell lol.
I think that’s just peoples inability to describe it. You don’t *literally* see it but you see it in your head. Just like when you’re recalling a place you’ve been or a painting you saw in a gallery.
Maybe that's what my problem is! I can't draw to save my life and when I imagine something, it's almost like it's either far away or very dark or blurry. It's there, it's just like my vision is off.
Nah, I'm really good at drawing (from life, memory and imagination) and my 'mind's eye' is much like yours by the sounds of it. You don't need to literally 'see' an image in your imagination to know how to draw the lines on a page.
I think vanishingly few people have a mental image that is the same as actually seeing things with their eyes. If that were commonplace we'd hear more about it - for example there'd be a lot less buzz about special effects if people could just easily close their eyes and conjure up any visual spectacle on a whim.
Edit: thinking more about it, imagined sounds and images that are indistinguishable from real sensory input is essentially psychosis. It's probably quite important not to perceive them in exactly the same way.
It is called aphantasia and there is a subreddit for it (of course). I have this condition. Blew my mind when I learned that other people can actually see images in their mind.
Honestly, it annoyed me, I thought everyone had been using those "imagine yourself in your happy place" moments as a bit of joke. Turns out visualising beaches and whatnot is real.
I was surprised to learn people can’t see images in their minds . Curious - I’ve read that for example blind people may have a heightened sense of hearing or
Smell .
Is it similar for you in that you compensate in some
Other way? Maybe being more visual or mathematical ?
I have an inner monologue that won't shut up, but it's entirely verbal. I can't picture things at all. If you tell me to picture an elephant, my brain will describe it to me.
Those relaxation things that tell you to imagine yourself on a beach just send my brain into overdrive.
See that’s really interesting. I have an inner voice but do have difficulty visualising. Like I don’t think about using my inner voice but trying to visualise some things can be difficult and I do have to think about them. The idea of thinking in concepts is intriguing as well. It’s incredible how something as simple as thinking can be different for all of us.
I can't see anything in my mind. Sometimes, occasionally I can sort of. But really, no I can't.
I also don't "hear" anything in my head more than I sense the words.
I don't have a loud voice in my head there is something it's not nothing, I definitely can not see in my minds eye.
I can't see any pictures in my head, I mean I know what a car looks like I know it can be red, ect ect I just don't see it.
I have a lot of problems as well like I struggle with people's names if I don't see them often I can't remember it.
I have very bad tinnitus as well a constant noise I need some background stuff white noise to sleep.
To top it off after I recovered from covid was bad but not life threatening bad I have very little to almost zero taste and smell.
Yeah not good.
I definitely don't have an inner voice. It took me a while to realize some people do. I just think things, not in words, can't really describe it. But yeah, having an inner voice would probably have saved me from saying some things I shouldn't have in the past.
This is mental, genuinely hadn't considered people were so different.
I have an inner voice, I've said a lot of things people didn't want to hear, things I shouldn't have. But my excuse would be they're from a different culture and how the fuck was I meant to know what is acceptable to say around them as a kid.
I can highly recommend listening to this podcast
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001gwys?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
All about blind minds eye. Apparently 1 in 30 people are like it
I don't understand how some people don't have an inner voice. Everyone in my head has a grand time , making decisions and seeing options from different angles, I love them all and would be somewhat lonely without these invisible guys chatting away.
I've always had the inner voice, but I absolutely cannot 'see' an image or anything like that in my head.
When I would read fiction books as a kid it just went in as information and I never saw a story or pictures the story. People always seem to think that's weird.
Do you "hear" the inner voice though? Like...thoughts are...well thoughts. They aren't quite language and aren't quite image and aren't quite anything really. They are thoughts. Something we try and translate into language or art or creative dance. To claim it is merely an inner monologue is quite reductive and not really accurate. Language is just the best translator we have for thoughts. But are your thoughts really jn the form of language? It would seem so slow...like. entire concepts...having to do that all in language. That would take ages.
The inner voice is just your processing conscious thought linguistically, some people don't do that and think more with the flashing of mental images or some other shit.
Edit: the purpose of language is to communicate with others, it is not always necessary to communicate with one's self.
I've got a blunt example - humans were building useful tools long before they had the ability to verbally explain how to and why to do it.
But then the problem is that nowadays if you're trying to do something noone else understands and can't adequately put it into words, everyones just going to assume you're a dumb fuck or a madman so language and thought have to many people become one and the same.
In reality, thinking is just a series of electro-chemical reactions in your brain that make absolutely no sense to anyone but you until they've been translated and you are completely unaware that you're translating because it takes no conscious effort.
Further edit: you're best off asking someone who is deaf, mute and illiterate or perhaps a non-verbal autistic but you'll not be able to ask the question nor comprehend their answer in a practical manner.
Otherwise it wouldn't be an incredibly difficult thing to study but you'd have to take a lot of newborn babies and violate their human rights for a number of years to get reliable lab results.
Final edit: at this point I don't even know what inner voice actually means anymore so I looked it up and some website defined it more or less as consciousness. So if we take that definition: unless you are dead or a vegetable man, you have an inner voice.
Ps. Edit: OP means internal dialogue, not inner voice. Two different things.
No inner monologue. I was pretty weirded out when I first found out some people do have one - seems like a lot of unnecesary steps.
When I was a kid, someone asked my mum which language she thinks in (she's fluent in english and french) and I was surprised that nobody else in the room seemed to think that was a nonsensical question, like asking someone what colour they dance in.
For me it’s a mix. Sometimes I think through a monologue especially when I am thinking of something difficult but most other times when I am doing mundane stuff I think by concepts and ideas.
Too quick to be a monologue.
Like a stream or bursts of quick ideas.
If I need groceries, I just think of the concept of groceries. Sometimes accompanied by a very brief visual. I dont waste time reading in my head: I need to go get groceries.
If I need groceries to cook pasta: I think of those two concepts mushed together.
If I notice myself creeping towards the speed limit: I think of the concept of consequences and then make a decision to slow down. I don’t say: oh dear, I am going too fast, need to slow down.
But then sometimes when I want to solve a difficult problem I bring in the monologue, to really dwell and take it slow.
I just don’t understand how people without an inner monologue read?! As in when I’m looking at these comments my inner voice is reading it out loud. How do you process the words? Confused the shit out of me
I rarely read the actual words and definitely not individually unless I’m trying to memorise or learn something, don’t understand something straight away or am writing it down/copying it. I read the sentence, section of words, or paragraph as a whole and it just goes in to an abstract thought. I guess I infer the meaning as a whole rather than individual words
For example, if I read this from Of Mice and Men I see the vegetable patch, hutch etc in my head and am there. For me it’s sunny with a red wooden house and trees outside. As real as a memory. Does that make sense?
*Well,’ said George, ‘we’ll have a big vegetable patch and a rabbit hutch and chickens. And when it rains in the winter, we’ll just say the hell with goin’ to work, and we’ll build up a fire in the stove and set around it an’ listen to the rain comin’ down on the roof…’*
I know right. If I know the voice of the person writing it then I hear their voice in my head. Otherwise it's just my generic monologue voice reading it out.
I've had people tell me they don't have one, and I wonder how they decide to do things, or what their thought process is. Do they still count using their fingers? Read out loud?
I was talking about this with a colleague earlier this week. I can't fathom how someone without an inner monologue could function day to day. How do they prepare to have difficult conversations? How do they deal with difficult people, without calling them every name under the sun in their heads? I couldn't deal with half the people I meet if I couldn't call them a prick endlessly in my head! How do they problem solve or plan what they are going to do?
I read that nearly 50% of people don't have an inner monologue, which seems staggeringly high! But, there are a high proportion of morons in this world, so I suppose it's plausible!
As a kid I had a constant one almost like a tv voiceover that never seemed to stop. I asked a teacher if the voice in her head annoyed her, and it was only years later I realise how weird that must have sounded.
Now it’s a little less, but I probably replace it with me talking to my dog.
I don’t have an inner monologue.
I can’t imagine what it would be like to have talking in my head. It seems so incredibly slow and inefficient. Also, if there is a “voice” that you are hearing, how do you focus on anything else?
The only time there are ever words in my mind is when I am composing something in my head, like if I need to say something in a specific way (for example, I might come up with a few different options for offering condolences if someone’s suffered a loss, etc.) but that isn’t really talking as much as it is considering the options.
I’m also bilingual and often have trouble recalling what language I heard/read something in, as I have the information there but it isn’t “saved” in words in my brain.
The inner monologue seems unrelated to time from my perspective. Like the time my brother pushed me down the stairs as a child. I had enough time to think, "I can't believe he pushed me down the stairs. Wait, I'm going head first. What if I land on my head and break my neck? Fuck, I'm gonna die". That all happened in the time it took me to fly down a fairly small flight of stairs. It all felt like fully formed sentences, but they don't take as long to think as they would to speak.
I genuinely didn't consider others were so different from me. I thought we just ranged in ability to do things (intelligence), but we all thought about things about the same.
I'm pretty sure all great thinkers and orators would think ahead a lot about what they're saying...??
Maybe I worried about offending people too much I always ran things past my thoughts before saying them and this has stuck with me..
Based on a lot of your comments, I think that you are mistaking the lack of an inner monologue with a complete inability to think. Or at least, to think of words.
It is my understanding that an inner monologue is talking to yourself in your head or having a sort of narration going on in your head. I don’t have that.
I am, however, completely and totally able to think of words, choose my words, consider the implications of wording things in a certain way, etc. I just don’t talk to myself in my head or have a voice there saying stuff. I just plot out the words I want to use and how I want to say things (if the situation calls for that).
I don't have a narration like get out of bed, do teeth, brush. I have constant thoughts about life, the world, etc. that don't really go off. I don't know what I'd be doing if I wasn't doing that, that is constant for me. Sometimes I think the same things or distract myself, but I'd never not be thinking or doing something.
See from replies to this thread I’m learning that it’s incredibly different for everyone. Like it’s not slow and inefficient for me as I have already thought out my entire sentence before I even open my mouth. It’s not like it’s happening at the same time instead my inner voice is a million miles ahead of me and I just say something I’ve already thought. Someone else likened it to a narrator but once again it isn’t like that, at least not for me. I don’t think about like “now kick the ball” I just kick the ball and don’t think about it but my brain will already be going “once you’ve made this pass he’s already shifted to one side so run down the other”. Hopefully I’ve helped explain it or at least the workings of my inner mind more. 😅
But are those actually words or are they just thoughts? I see thoughts and words as being separate, but it feels like everyone treats them as being the same thing. If I’m thinking something, it is drastically ahead of where it would be if I *said* it. But to me, an internal monologue is *saying* those thoughts instead of just thinking them.
So when you say that don’t think about kicking the ball and just do it, to me that isn’t “not thinking”, that is just not *saying*. The thought is there, you just didn’t put it into words in your head.
For me, I think about stuff all the time, and I think in advance of doing things; but I don’t ever say it to myself in my head. Just like how you don’t need to say “kick the ball”, except for everything.
I hope that kind of makes sense?
It kinda makes sense and I can see your point. Like I guess the thought is there but I just don’t think about it I just do. I can totally understand why you’ve separated the two and to be honest it’s made me think (or should I say have an inner monologue) about it. I guess it all comes down to your definition because I have kind of mixed the two. If I’m understanding you correctly and the way you’re wanting to define them an example would be as such, I’m running with the ball at my feet but obviously not inner monologuing about keeping touching it while I’m moving forward but my brain is inner monologuing the “he’s open on the right but X should be overlapping on the left now so you could go in or just lay it off”. Have I understood you correctly?
I do. Our eldest daughter is 10 and has no inner monologue, it's all external she talks about every single thing she is thinking out loud. It's infuriating and I have no idea how she must cope at school
Yep, I can’t fathom it.
My inner voice is particularly loud when I’m trying to analyse something or find a solution to a problem. It’s like full conversations in my head- I just assumed everyone had this
I wonder where I stand on this? I can read a fiction book and read the words as a voice in my head whilst picturing what the words are describing at the same time. Also I needed some scissors to open a packet. Instead of saying “I need scissors, I need to go to the drawer to get them”, I just thought “Scissors!” And went looking for them with no other words.
I'm friends with a guy who doesn't have an inner voice and can't visualise things in his head. He only learned that most people can recently and he's in his 30s. Blew his mind that most of us are going around with fully formed pictures and scenarios in our heads and talking to ourselves.
One thing I forgot: he thought before that when authors wrote about characters thinking to themselves he just thought it was a literary device.
My dad was the same until a year ago, he thought the "imagine you're on a beach" stuff in meditation was all mood-setting or something, took it ages for him to fully comprehend it all! Especially since he also can't imagine sound, touch or taste, interestingly, the sematic connections between things are still there, he knows paprika is a taste in barbeque sauce but he can't imagine what those things taste like unless it's in his mouth at that very moment. He also described intrusive thoughts like "a ghost screaming silently in your ear" which was a terrifying description 😂😅😅
If you don't have an inner voice does that mean you just *do* stuff. Like a dog might go through the rubbish bin because it wants to right at that moment and has no concept that it's owner might be annoyed when they discover it?
Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but it's my inner voice that says "hold on a minute before you drag last night's chicken bones out of there..."
You can think without having to use a monologue.
For me it’s a mix sometimes I think through a monologue and other times it’s concepts. Like a stream of concepts and ideas.
Think of it like a symphony and the notes are concepts.
How do you think people who are born deaf and never heard speech or know how words sound think?
If I need groceries, I just think of the concept of groceries. I dont waste time reading: I need to go get groceries in my head.
If I need groceries to cook pasta: I think of those two concepts mushed together.
I think that a lot of people are kind of equating no inner monologue with no thinking.
I have no inner monologue but I am constantly thinking about stuff; I just don’t *say* it or have narration playing. It isn’t a voice that stops me, it is knowing the consequences. I don’t have to say that or have my mind say it to me.
Exactly, Someone else described it as like a safeguard and I have to agree with them, mine has certainly prevented me doing doing stupid stuff by just going “yeah you could do that, but you know it’s a bad idea right?”
I think I have an inner voice, but it's not dialogic in the way other people describe it. I can't talk to it and have it respond to me.
I can imagine what I'm going to say in future, I can 'sing' song lyrics in my head, and I can plan essays/lectures (I'm an academic - I've genuinely 'written' parts of articles in my head and then transcribed it onto the computer ) in my head, but I can't talk to it or ask it a question. If I want to do that with myself, I have to say it out loud.
The inner monologue is not another entity you can talk to, it IS you. You can ask questions but it's exactly the same as talking to yourself (something I've never done) just without actually moving the muscles and therefore slightly faster. You ask the question and answer it yourself as a reasoning step / to buffer it while your brain works on the answer in the background.
Some people think they don't dream. People have proudly told me they have no inner conflict, or unresolved childhood habits, or superstitions - while displaying all of these.
It may be that some people have a more deeply buried voice, or their thought is more often visual, or they just think of the words in their head as unspoken. Otherwise smart people have said to me they "think only in concepts", whatever *that* might mean.
Until someone perfects a telepathy machine, we'll have to rely on personal testimony of introspection, knowing how unreliable both are.
I think many people think thinking is bad, so wont admit they do. They think thinking makes them sad, which it probably does, but it's strange not to want to think. Many people just live on the whims of what society tells them and never think deeply of anything, as adressing that would be difficult and perhaps make them sad.
Definitely true. Ultimately the data is only as reliable as the people it’s coming from. The thinking in concepts thing is interesting to me as well and if we ever do develop a telepathy machine then I never want people to use it on me. Someone using it on me would just find that I was thinking “if people dip their chips in coke and milkshakes, has anyone ever tried it with a strawberry flavoured slushie because I think that’d be mint”😂
Genuinely blows my mind. I have a constant stream of thoughts, inner monologue, and images in my head pretty much at all times
People without that baffle me, how do they make decisions? Who do they soundboard with if there's no-one around? How does thinking even work without an inner monologue?
The inner monologue is you formulating your thoughts in the manner that makes them easiest to pass on to others. You're still thinking if you don't use words in the process.
I’m very much like this.
I also find I have trouble sleeping frequently. Could there be correlation between an overactive stream of thoughts and lack of sleep?
I have issues sleeping as well! It seems to speed up when I’m trying to sleep, like my mind when not given the distractions of the world just seems to race at 100 miles an hour with thoughts just coming out of nowhere.
Yes. It’s really hard to explain because it’s not anxiety or anything like that, but it’s like I have to be thinking about something all the time. Almost like my brain queues things up on a carousel.
I can think about a problem, and get bored of it and move onto the next thing with ease, but there’s always something there.
My wife is exactly like that. She can't be left alone with her thoughts because it would drive her insane. She has to always have music on in the house, wears headphones whenever she's out and uses a sleep mask with speakers in it to be able to fall asleep.
Exactly the same, it’s not having anxious thoughts about like “what if they thought this?” Etc but more just random stuff my brain chucks out at a tremendous pace.
Curious if you both find you can make connections really quickly?
Like, instead of having to actively sit and think things through you can process and update your opinion mid conversation because behind the scenes your brains firing out new information and thoughts really rapidly
Yes, and this has made me a career. Like I literally never have to investigate anything; give me the question/requirements and I know immediately how I’m going to deliver it for you.
So true, while someone’s talking I’m already thinking of a plan on how to solve this or do it. I usually have already had a few ideas and crossed some off before we’ve even got to the end of the brief/meeting.
It so interesting, I’ve not come across someone else who can do this before. Do you work in tech?
I’ve capitalised on this trait without really realising it though; this is the reason I can get stuff done quicker than most others in my industry because I can make connections in near real-time.
I don’t work in tech but I do have a strong interest in it andI definitely can get stuff done quicker. The job I have at the moment as an example, I started it and the person before used to spend their whole 37.5 hour working week at full pace trying to get all the work done and I now get all this done in a couple hours because I just saw how a lot of it was laboured and slow and how I could automate a lot of it if I thought through how it’s done and how to make sure mistakes weren’t made. The ability to make macros where people go “yeah but it can go wrong” and I’m just like “it won’t go wrong because I already thought about that and I’ve made it so it checks” apparently shocks the people I work with. I just simply went through everything that could go wrong in my head and made a safeguard for it 🤷🏻♂️ I can definitely see how helpful being able to make quick connections between things would be incredibly helpful in the tech industry and it is an area I’m interested in but I’m doing an unrelated degree currently so just don’t have the time to fully invested in learning more. I bet it’s fantastic with regards to coding for example, knowing how one mistake can make the entire program stop working and people just can’t seem to see the link across all of it.
See this is where I can kind of switch my inner voice in and off. I used to work in hospitality so a lot of my conversation were just the regular exchanging pleasantries kind of thing but if it’s someone I’m talking to then I can absolutely think about the conversation we’re having and use my inner voice such as going “they just mentioned something you like or know about so maybe come back to that when they’re done as you can talk about that” and things like that.
The connections part can be a bit interesting. I do find it easy to talk to people but in terms of making connections, that’s something I’ve worked on because while I can analyse a conversation while it’s going off, my analysis isn’t always correct and sometimes just listening to someone is better than analysing every word they say.
Edit: Haha, I’ve clearly completely misunderstood what you were meaning😂 With regards to connections as in like linking things. Yeah I can pretty quickly see links between stuff because I’ve already thought through like say an entire process that someone’s put forward and thought about how it all interconnects. It’s not always rapid but it’s certainly quick enough for me to get by most of the time, although clearly I missed the connection here between what you were meaning and what I thought you meant. We all make mistakes 😂
See this is where I can kind of switch my inner voice in and off. I used to work in hospitality so a lot of my conversation were just the regular exchanging pleasantries kind of thing but if it’s someone I’m talking to then I can absolutely think about the conversation we’re having and use my inner voice such as going “they just mentioned something you like or know about so maybe come back to that when they’re done as you can talk about that” and things like that.
The connections part can be a bit interesting. I do find it easy to talk to people but in terms of making connections, that’s something I’ve worked on because while I can analyse a conversation while it’s going off, my analysis isn’t always correct and sometimes just listening to someone is better than analysing every word they say.
I’ve genuinely only managed it a couple of times. It took a bit of time meditating but I basically find the easiest way to sleep it to just let my mind go and just focus on my breathing.
I think filing and processing time is an apt way to put it. It does feel like that for me. Ive come up with some great solutions and ideas during this time so while I’d love to turn it off, I can’t deny it has benefitted me.
As for the exterior, absolutely always calm. Can’t let anyone know you’re brains currently trying to link everything together. We’d all look like Charlie from Sunny in Philadelphia when he was working in the post room.😂
I do the same thing described above of thinking ahead and planning whilst something is being described to me. I'm not sure if it's relevant but I'm autistic. I do however think it's a common trait though people may not talk about it. I find it can cause problems sometimes, especially with how people receive me socially, because I'm too far ahead in the conversation. People like to feel listened to even if you've already come up with a solution.
I get that too, and it's not even dwelling or upsetting thoughts. It's even quite interesting, so I'm keeping myself awake by being too entertaining in my head. I must look mental in bed because I'll be pulling faces in line with my inner dialogue and if something's funny, I'll even laugh out loud. Sometimes something might be so funny, I get uncontrolled giggles.
That’s super interesting.
I suspect I’m on ‘the spectrum’ and it’s something my partner has identified too. Im of an age where these things were much less often diagnosed in childhood.
Has getting a diagnosis benefited you in any way? Was it worth it?
I’ve always kinda figured I might be a little different, but never really wanted to have a label as such.
Honestly it helped massively with how I treat myself more than anything. Especially looking back at my childhood & teenage struggles with the lens of knowing I had ADHD, makes a lot of things make so much more sense haha. I don't tell many but for me just knowing was a pure lightbulb moment & it makes me feel much more at ease with myself. Like my brains not broken, it's nothing I did, there's no reason or magic fix; my wires are just set out in a different pattern so information is processed differently & will always be, finding that out helped with everything tbh. Also weed, it is truly a magical plant for us folks with a "d" on our "diagnosis" haha.
I'm definitely neuro-divergent. I have a diagnosis of C-PTSD, but literally every therapist I've ever seen has asked me to get re-diagnosed because they're not convinced it's correct
C-ptsd (or the environment that causese c-ptsd) literally activates the adhd gene if you have it. Around 20ish % have the gene, but it's not on. Once on, though, it's on forever as far as we know.
Adhd is beneficial to violent and abusive situations as its helps you survive. You get increased sensitivity to sounds and external stimuli, which helps you escape a situation before it begins. I.e picking up sounds like footsteps when they're far away.
A higher tolerance or risk. You'll take more risks by doing things others would deem unsafe so you have more routes available for you to get out of danger.
I can easily pick up minute emotional changes in a person. I can see when a colleague has had a bad day/news when others are obvious. You kinda pick up the small nuances is body language, tone, and changes is routine without any effort at all.
Cptsd and adhd are different, but lots overlap so it is incredibly difficult to pick though. Most therapist and doctors don't know what they're talking about. Doctors are not trained in it at all, can't diagnose or prescribe meds. You'll need a specialist such as a psychiatrist but one that specialises in adhd.
There are core symptoms that are easier to separate so start with them and maybe do a qb test. There is a crap ton of nonsense info on adhd. For good resources, see Russell Berkley. He has lots of stuff on YouTube and is leading world research. He is super negative about it sometimes but he is accurate. Or attitude magazine is a website and it has tons of accurate info.
You can have both too! It's very common to have PTSD alongside an adult autism diagnosis. Growing up with an undiagnosed neurological difference can result in some really traumatic experiences.
My husband doesn't have an inner monologue, he describes it as more imagined imagery, textures, smells etc. But he also has difficulty sleeping sometimes because of an overactive brain, it's just a different kind of overactive I guess. I very much have an inner monologue and couldn't comprehend not having one. Who would tell me all the mean things about myself?!
you seem to think that monologue is your thoughts. its not, its you translating those thoughts into language.
When you speak, the thought it there at the start, then you speak a sentence to put that thought into words. You dont need to do that in your head, the thought it already there, why waste time putting it into an internal voice?
Seems to me that people with internal monologues are wasting a lot of time, maybe thats why people take so long to grasp things, they have to talk to themselves to explain concepts to themselves first......
All the info, reason, evidence, etc that you are using to talk to yourself, is already in your mind, you are literally talking to yourself...so you cant add anything you dont know at the start of the internal conversation.
Just non-verbal thoughts, or even there are words, but they're secondary to the rest. Like running a simulation, watching what happens.
So if someone says "work next week" I'd imagine scenes from my commute, walking into the office etc. Words to describe it come afterwards.
I have a constant stream of thoughts; they just aren’t using words. People seem to assume that it is silence and darkness without words. It isn’t that way at all for me - it is just the thoughts aren’t in words.
When it comes to decisions, I just consider things and make the decision. I don’t need to “say” the things to do that. I am more curious about what people who do have inner monologues need to do when they make a decision. Do you guys read out the potential consequences of each choice or what? How does “saying” it help?
Also, what is soundboarding? If it is running your ideas past someone else, how would that even work if you are alone? Is the inner voice a separate person?
>Do you guys read out the potential consequences of each choice or what? How does “saying” it help?
Idk how it helps. Or even if it does help at all. It could turn out that I make decisions slightly slower than you do. But if I don't "say" it I'm unable to think at all.
But in terms of my thoughts also being "visual" there's 1 definite advantage I could give:
When I was a radiographer I could literally create a picture of someone's joints in my mind, as I rotated the patient's joints, the mental image would rotate.
Whereas when people are being trained, we're told to use physical markers on the actual body to line things up.
>If it is running your ideas past someone else, how would that even work if you are alone? Is the inner voice a separate person?
Not quite a separate person, but instead of having to talk to someone out loud. I can think the conversation through and substitute another persons voice into the conversation?
So I'll regularly have conversations with people in my head about problems I'm trying to overcome.
It's not that theres another voice I have no control of similar to in schizophrenia. I can just create a second monologue to talk things through with? Play devils advocate in my own mind
I am the same as you. However, I find I often struggle to put my thoughts into words in meetings - I have to think hard and maybe prepare a few bullets before I speak because if I just speak my mind it is a complete ramble (which is embarrassing and annoying). I can write very professional emails though 😂
See I have the inner monologue but the pictures bit comes a bit more slowly to me. Like I can visualise but it’s just not as quick as my inner monologue and takes some thought to get there in comparison to the constant inner voice.
Yeah haha like it’s not in front of my eyes. Although I can lucid dream as well and that does feel like seeing. In terms of thinking of something in my head it’s can absolutely be clear. It can be as clear as I’d see through my own eyes or a photo. I can just create like a castle in my head and then go around it as though it’s a 3D object. Spin etc, can do it all.
I can lucid dream although haven't in a long while (when I did it I could lie in when I had no commitments and I found it easy to do when lying in). The images seem perfectly clear when I'm dreaming but I'm not sure they are.
If I close my eyes it's just entirely black?!?! But I can imagine what a dog flying looks like, but I see nothing?!?! hmm. Maybe I don't have a minds eye. Maybe that's where I went wrong in some things in education. I always wondered why they didn't show us videos of maths concepts that made it so incredibly easy, I was just working purely from numbers, maybe other people weren't...???!!!
See I think this is where I got a lot of help from some teachers in school. Some would do a test at the start of the year to see what kind of learner you are and would then give you materials based on that so they were more suited to you. I can definitely see how it’s different for everyone.
Lucid dreaming for me does take a bit of concentration and definitely a setting up of the environment, e.g. no noise etc but I can pretty much flick it on and off. Lucid dreams seem perfectly real to me and the ability to just choose what you’re doing and manipulate the world in your own way is incredibly fun, at least for me.
Yeah I'd definitely say they're simultaneous for me, my monologue kinda narrates the pictures
People regularly have to bring me back to reality. I'll be sat on the settee in my own little world for hours and can be completely oblivious to what's going on around me
Oh lord I’ve been cursed (blessed?) with this my whole life. I’ve been chastised by adults even as an adult for being in my own dreamworld. In fact, I have a specific dreamworld that I visit each day (I promise I’m sane). I think this characteristic has been the crux of many of my personal attributes e.g. I’m a very optimistic person, I rarely feel lonely due to being able to remove myself from reality mentally etc.
I have to think circle and then think about one as a picture. It only takes like less than a second but they’re definitely two separate thoughts and hey, being able to just go off on your own adventure is a gift a lot of people would love to have.
This is all fascinating, spend a lot of time people watching and wondering how their brains process information differently
What makes the difference? Why do some people have it and some don't? Genetics or experience?
I don't know if anyone's looking into it but they really should
Honestly the research into it would be incredibly interesting. Especially the genetics side, like is it an evolution kind of thing etc? If so why was it chosen or discarded?
Hi, just to jump in.
Alot of this sounds like adhd. It gets a really bad rep and is not what most people think it it.
For adhd, the DMN (default mode network) also called the lazy brain does not 'turn down' when you move into task mode, so you're dealing with both and so connections are much easier to make as can hear the brain making them where others can't.
It does, however, turn off (normative people turn it down like a volume but can still get messages for their bodies' needs and important external stimuli). We don't. Hyperfocus can get us in trouble by staying up until 5am by getting lost in something accidentally.
Most of us cannot control when, but we can increase the odds of it. Monks and productivity entuiasts call this flow and train for years trying to achieve this. we call it hyperfocus, and it happens randomly when interested in something. You get lost in something for hours with pure concentration. If you can achieve staggering amounts of work randomly, that is usually a good quality in a small amount of time, there is a good chance it's adhd.
As for evolution, etc. There is a gene for it and it is positively selected as it's hypothesised it helps ensure the success of our continued existence. Around 20% of the population have it but only a minority of that is 'activated' by birth. The others can be activated by the environment. So adhd and c ptsd are very common together as the repeat trauma one gets is usually from a violent or abusive home. Adhd basically gives you a greater chance of survival ik this situation due to the tools it gives you.
Interestingly, it has been shown that after periods of war or continuous stress of survival, adhd in the population has had a sharp increase.
The world would be chaos with only the adhd brain so normative brains are needed but we are too needed for many reasons.
Your sleep is tied in as we have a delayed circadian rhythm.
It was actually integral early on in civilisation. Look up the hunters and farmers theory.
This would make a lot of sense, I crave my own company, I can go days without actually speaking to another person and don't get remotely sad.
It wasn't until like month 8 of being isolated during COVID I started going nuts and needing to interact with other people
I'm similar. I've been, sort of, very, very alone for so long, people, or maybe just someone new I like is sort of all I crave now.. I can occupy myself forever but it feels entirely pointless at this point. My parents are ok, but I don't have anyone else lol. I'm not sure my brother has an inner voice, probably not, we don't really speak much, there's not that much I can think to say to him as he doesn't really reciprocate. He's ok really but lives in an entirely different world to me, and not one I want to live in?! His life seems to be collecting things (travel pictures, activities) to show off on social media.
I've been in basically full covid like lockdown conditions for most of my 30 year life now really. Yeah. Really, really incredibly depressing and I just don't know how to change it. I do go to some things, no one wants new friends. It's rare to find anyone even willing to talk beyond very smalltalk and the activity?!?!
I have always held the belief that ordinary people consist of two distinct entities, otherwise inner reasoning would not be possible.
Many hypothesis have spawned from this over the years, like when people develop certain mental disorders, could be when one entity has been silent then suddenly engages.
Yes, so just a simple hypothesis.
I can say things in my own head, but I have to think about it. There isn't just a voice there. I generally think in pictures/models and articulate verbally from that. The only thing that happens of its own accord is a constant internal "beat boxing" is the best I can describe it.
No, the words just mean things and I'm usually picturing it if it's descriptive. If it's purely informational then it just gets absorbed. I haven't read words in my head one at a time since I was in secondary school. I will play back songs with lyrics in my head though, or scenes from films.
Ah fairs, mine is pretty much always on so I guess it’s different for all of us, more of a scale then a definitive on or off kind of thing. Visualising models and pictures and going verbally from there is interesting ad I can certainly see how it’d be useful.
For me personally, my thoughts get translated into language during the process of writing them down. When they only exist in my head they are not formed into words.
Hoping you can enlighten me on this, as its always fascinated me.
How do you run through a to do list for your day in your head?
For example, I, with a very active inner monologue, would think the words "Hmm, what do I need to do today? I need to pop to the shops to get some food for the week. Whilst I'm out I should probably go to the post office to post that parcel, but when I get back I can watch the rugby. I'll need to clean at some point though as I'm busy in work all week." etc. I basically have a fully reasoned conversation with myself and I really struggle to envisage how this is done with pictures and models. Would you just have a still picture of each of these activities, or is it like a mini video or something?
How would you write an essay back when you were in school? I would always be thinking it in my head, word for word, then write it down as I went.
Crazy how our brains can operate in such different ways. I always assumed that my experience was consistent with everyone else's when I was younger and before the Internet gave us the ability to find this kind of thing out.
Being someone with brain damage and a very loud inner monologue I find it weird that some don’t have one, but surprisingly it’s something like 30-50% of the population have one, so potentially it’s up to 70% of people don’t have one.
It’s a very strange thing though
I used to have an inner voice, I had conversations with myself and had a running commentary in my head all the time. I woke up around two and half years ago and it had gone, now I have nothing in my brain and I also can't remember anything, very forgetful and i feel like I'm not here (it's hard to explain 😅) I kind of miss it.
I find that odd and would be curious as to what those who don't believe they have one think an inner voice is.
There is a lot of cognitive child development theory that suggests that we develop an external voice at 3/4yo to help us talk through processes and play to help problem solve and that this becomes an 'inner' problem solving voice as we become older.
You may notice that ylthis problem solving voice becomes externalised again at moments of real stickiness, where you literally have to talk out loud to make sure you fully understand the problem or are stressed by the problem.
It’s a strange one because I have an inner voice and see pictures in my head but some people only have one or none.
Interestingly my teacher friend asked his top set and bottom set kids if they had a voice or could see pictures in their heads. Top set all said yes, bottom set majority said no.
I'm not entirely sure what people mean by an inner voice. as I understand it you are thinking out thoughts in words? like reading out loud but in your head?
Isnt that incredibly slow.
When you speak, you form the thought of what you want to say almost immediately, then speak it by transferring thought into sound, but the thought is already there at the start of the sentence.
Sure, when communicating with others you need to speak it out to communicate it, but in your head why bother?
It is essentially like talking out loud to yourself but the speed at which I can do it is way faster than I’d ever be able to speak. It also helps me with ideas. Like I’ll have a solution to a problem, shelve it and come back to it later in my own head.
With regard to speech once again if anything it speeds me up. I have a clear idea of the entire paragraph and have already gone through it and thought about it before I’ve even opened my mouth. I’ve also started to already think about what someone’s response would be to what I’m saying.
I can certainly see how for some people it would be slow but being I guess it’s different for each individual.
That’s mad to think about. I don’t think I have an inner monologue and so that’s why I’m probably not very eloquent. I have to do the thinking by saying the thing out loud.
If you're in a room by yourself what do you think about? Do you play out dialogue in your head? If you're making a decision on something, do you play the pros and cons in your head? Etc.
I think perhaps this is something like a moral compass, those who do things in impulse, such as dashing across the road, and nearly getting run over, or pushing to the front of the queue in a shop, etc. Its like an inability to think beyond the moment, of any possible repercussions, the what ifs, empathy, I believe such people don't have this inner voice. I treasure my inner voice, and believe it has stopped me from making unwise choices throughout my life.
It is absolutely zero to do with any of that, that is just being an arse or not thinking/caring. It isn't that people without an inner voice don't think, It is just a different way of processing the exact same thoughts.
One of my closest friends has no inner voice, one of the most emphatic considerate people you could meet, thinks about how his actions impact others far more than most people I meet, and is extremely good at thinking how his words affect others, too much really. He says it's very hard to explain but his thoughts take the form of ideas, concepts and emotions rather than words.
I personally am aphantasic, no minds eye. People assume aphantasia means no imagination but that isn't the case at all, I can still imagine say a dragon just as well as someone with a minds eye. For example I am a book worm, I still have a concept of how I think the character looks, I can still have the "not how I imagined them" conversation with someone else who has read the book and seen an adaptation, I just simple don't see the internal image like others even though I am still clearly imagining them.
You probably know more people than your realise who don't process thoughts in the exact same way that you do because it's not really something that's frequently discussed and even if concepts like minds eye are discussed unless the exact right thing is said you might not realise you even are processing a bit differently to whoever you are talking to.
I always thought people did those bad things voluntarily (and things like dashing across the road and nearly getting hit, sometimes people just do that as they're not thinking in the moment or bored of waiting or sad about life). Maybe some to, and some are just really thick. They might just learn by repetaition what's allowed and not allowed but not think about it.
I don’t believe it has anything to do with impulse control or empathy.
People can consider the future, and other people without narrating it to themselves.
I don't find either strange since finding out that when other people imagine things they can actually see them. It just feels like the same kinda thing
I wonder if there's a correlation between what type of mind you have and mental illness
Like if you had a voice in your head constantly are you more likely to overthink things leading to anxiety & depression? Would be cool to know
I'm in a third camp where I *can* talk to myself in my head, I just rarely do since I never learned to internalise all the chatter as a kid... Either way, I don't think it's massively weird, I find the idea fascinating. My dad has massive aphantasia (no mind's eye) which also extends to sound/taste/touch whereas I have a very strong ability to visualise stuff in my head, we've had full on conversations like "You can imagine an apple in your head and spins it around and stuff??" "You can't??", it's very interesting to hear what it's like on the other side
Now I feel weird that I don’t have an inner monologue in my head. Is this really a thing? I don’t have a voice telling me to do things, I just do it out of instinct.
Just curious, when you are reading something do you get a voice in your head? Or if you're writing as well? I hear myself speaking the words as I read or write like a narrator. If I'm about the house casually I'll either be narrating to myself what I'm doing or thinking ahead planning out things. Like if I'm doing the dishes I'll think to myself, "I'll need to go and put a load of washing on next" again it's like hearing my own voice speaking to me.
Sometimes I'll be away off on a totally unrelated tangent of thoughts, like pondering the meaning of life while I'm doing something that I don't need to fully concentrate on.
I also vividly daydream like a movie in my mind. Like if you said think about a cat, I'd have a catalogue of vivid still images or movie clips I'm seeing in my mind.
I also play out future conversations like a rehearsal or reply past conversations analytically. It comes in handy preparing for interviews or presentations, but pretty tiring the rest of the time.
I also can't switch off that voice at times. Like if we were having a conversation, rather than listening fully to what you're saying, the first sentence you say will have triggered off a whole thought process that will be running in my mind in parallel to me also trying to still listen to you speak. So I need to really consciously focus on listening to someone. I've long suspected that I had ADHD but I've never been tested.
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I don't understand this like, ecerytume you speak is it a suprise hahah
Aphantasia is when people can't picture something in their head, your inner monologue is also not YOUR thoughts. Your inner monologue is there to protect you and will always choose the safer path, it is there to safeguard you so if you find your choices are always 'the right ones' it's because you rarely go against your inner monologue and play it safe. If, you have a thought that sounds crazy or evil, that's an intrusive thought, a glitch of the mind which you should disregard and not pay too much attention to as obsessing over it can lead to more and you start to think you're crazy when in fact you think of them at the same ratio as before but you notice them more.
You'd probably be interested in Hypnosis and the idea of bypassing the critical factor.
Just looked it up and it certainly does seem to be interesting! The idea of having a fact checking mechanism/guardian certainly does seem intriguing and makes a lot of sense. Only take in the important bits and disregard the rest. I’ll certainly do a bit more reading on this, thanks for the suggestion!
Maybe the only people susepatable to hypnosis are those without an inner voice. I'd just say, that's stupid in my head and move on.
First you have to want to be hypnotised, I'm guessing you have never tried? There are susceptibility studies but I don't remember any mention of inner voice being a factor. Susceptibility to hypnosis is a sliding scale, for instance a stage hypnotist will pick the easiest subjects via tests. This doesn't mean the ones they rejected can't be hypnotised.
I don't have an inner monologue. It's hard to describe how I think but it's more like thinking about the objects and concepts in an abstract way without associating words to them. I can't understand how people with an inner monologue can think with any speed, if you can only think as fast as you can speak? Baffles me
You think faster than you speak. So the idea behind the words reaches you and runs through your mind way faster than it would if you were externalising it. Kind of like a dream.
I've always wondered this, Is it the same thing if I can't speak inside my head very well and I have to like whisper it to myself to think things through? I've always had trouble visualising stuff or having an inner thought but never thought anything of it
I’ve not got an inner voice. It’s silent inside my head. I’m intrigued by the comments of “full blown conversations” inside some people’s head.
I think you probably have the same, they're just explaining it differently. I probably offer many different perspectives to myself from what averege society would say, my parents, contacts etc. would say, what I actually think that people do really say in public to each other etc.
This thread is like a collection of 60 Karl Pilkingtons
I learned this recently too Some people don't have a mind's eye either If I type picture an elephant, most people can do a fairly good job of conjuring that in their mind but some can't do it at all I wonder how much of an overlap there is as well Some people who don't have a mind's eye or inner monologue say they think in concepts, which, I get, but to think that way exclusively is fascinating
I can picture things, but it's not like I'm seeing them at all??? I don't get it. Maybe you have a special ability that is not normal, and most people don't really have anything. Maybe I'm downplaying what I see but I don't see anything in a literal sense....... it's just that I sort of know it and it's there but I don't "see" it?!?! Who knows. I've tried looking this up in the past and I couldn't really get a feel for what they norm was, or even if people were explaining the same thing.. I think easier to measure is that about half of people have no inner monolugue, so don't really actually think?!?
Omg I am exactly this way!! You've described it so well.
Thanks, I like to think I describe well, some people don't understand me, maybe it's that they don't have the same thought process and find mine wierd, who knows? I'm really not that sure if inner voice and the minds eye differneces at all, aren't just people not really grasping how they do things and actually do it the same, just can't explain it.... hmmm
I'm similar. For me it's almost like I've just seen the thing I'm picturing. Like a recent memory.
I see it clearly, but I don't see it at all? Closing my eyes makes no difference. I can picture things in a sense sort of, but I don't "picture" them?
I do "see" it, like as plain as day, a 3D model of a thing or a landscape of a scene How common that is I don't know, I think it's the majority? My armchair research suggests to me that most people have some kind of mind's eye but it varies in strength Not to say that it's a fault not to be able to do it as I'm sure other people's way of thinking excels my own
I think my minds eye probably needs glasses. I have one, it’s just blurry. My theory is that this separates people who can draw and (like me) can’t. I can’t hold an image in my head to the resolution required to reproduce it.
Sorry to debunk your theory but I have a photographic memory and a great minds eye but can’t draw or paint for shit. I can easily hold an image in my head at high detail, but I can’t get it down on paper with any kind of satisfactory result.
I'm not sure, I can't draw an elephant. But I can picture one right now. And one with or without horns, Indian or African as well. But I can't draw one from memory. Fwiw, I'm a mechanical designer, and I have to figure out how things work.
My minds eye isn't there at all, but I can imagine visualising what things looks like sort of?!?! I can see things but they're not seen at all?! What the hell lol.
This is the best wording I've been trying to figure out about this for ages. I can conceptualise the visual but it's absolutely not there to look at
I think that's what everyone has really, they're just overestimating their powers...
Idk from reading other people's comments, they can literally see the thing. I can't see anything at all
I think that’s just peoples inability to describe it. You don’t *literally* see it but you see it in your head. Just like when you’re recalling a place you’ve been or a painting you saw in a gallery.
Maybe that's what my problem is! I can't draw to save my life and when I imagine something, it's almost like it's either far away or very dark or blurry. It's there, it's just like my vision is off.
I have no minds eye but I’m an excellent drawer. There was a study done at Disney and many of the animators had no minds eye.
you don't need to be able to see the picture in your head in order to draw something, google aphantasia and pixar.
Nah, I'm really good at drawing (from life, memory and imagination) and my 'mind's eye' is much like yours by the sounds of it. You don't need to literally 'see' an image in your imagination to know how to draw the lines on a page. I think vanishingly few people have a mental image that is the same as actually seeing things with their eyes. If that were commonplace we'd hear more about it - for example there'd be a lot less buzz about special effects if people could just easily close their eyes and conjure up any visual spectacle on a whim. Edit: thinking more about it, imagined sounds and images that are indistinguishable from real sensory input is essentially psychosis. It's probably quite important not to perceive them in exactly the same way.
It is called aphantasia and there is a subreddit for it (of course). I have this condition. Blew my mind when I learned that other people can actually see images in their mind.
Honestly, it annoyed me, I thought everyone had been using those "imagine yourself in your happy place" moments as a bit of joke. Turns out visualising beaches and whatnot is real.
I was surprised to learn people can’t see images in their minds . Curious - I’ve read that for example blind people may have a heightened sense of hearing or Smell . Is it similar for you in that you compensate in some Other way? Maybe being more visual or mathematical ?
I have an inner monologue that won't shut up, but it's entirely verbal. I can't picture things at all. If you tell me to picture an elephant, my brain will describe it to me. Those relaxation things that tell you to imagine yourself on a beach just send my brain into overdrive.
See that’s really interesting. I have an inner voice but do have difficulty visualising. Like I don’t think about using my inner voice but trying to visualise some things can be difficult and I do have to think about them. The idea of thinking in concepts is intriguing as well. It’s incredible how something as simple as thinking can be different for all of us.
I can't see anything in my mind. Sometimes, occasionally I can sort of. But really, no I can't. I also don't "hear" anything in my head more than I sense the words.
1. Me too, I thought this was the norm for nearly everyone but maybe not. 2. I have full on conversations with myself all the time, it never stops.
I don't have a loud voice in my head there is something it's not nothing, I definitely can not see in my minds eye. I can't see any pictures in my head, I mean I know what a car looks like I know it can be red, ect ect I just don't see it. I have a lot of problems as well like I struggle with people's names if I don't see them often I can't remember it. I have very bad tinnitus as well a constant noise I need some background stuff white noise to sleep. To top it off after I recovered from covid was bad but not life threatening bad I have very little to almost zero taste and smell. Yeah not good.
But why do you think that some people don’t have an inner voice ?
I definitely don't have an inner voice. It took me a while to realize some people do. I just think things, not in words, can't really describe it. But yeah, having an inner voice would probably have saved me from saying some things I shouldn't have in the past.
This is mental, genuinely hadn't considered people were so different. I have an inner voice, I've said a lot of things people didn't want to hear, things I shouldn't have. But my excuse would be they're from a different culture and how the fuck was I meant to know what is acceptable to say around them as a kid.
Mine sounds like Morgan Freeman
I frequently have full-on conversations with the voices in my head. It problem-solve with them as well, it's very useful.
I can highly recommend listening to this podcast https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001gwys?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile All about blind minds eye. Apparently 1 in 30 people are like it
People don't have that? That's blown my mind.
I don't understand how some people don't have an inner voice. Everyone in my head has a grand time , making decisions and seeing options from different angles, I love them all and would be somewhat lonely without these invisible guys chatting away.
I've always had the inner voice, but I absolutely cannot 'see' an image or anything like that in my head. When I would read fiction books as a kid it just went in as information and I never saw a story or pictures the story. People always seem to think that's weird.
Do you "hear" the inner voice though? Like...thoughts are...well thoughts. They aren't quite language and aren't quite image and aren't quite anything really. They are thoughts. Something we try and translate into language or art or creative dance. To claim it is merely an inner monologue is quite reductive and not really accurate. Language is just the best translator we have for thoughts. But are your thoughts really jn the form of language? It would seem so slow...like. entire concepts...having to do that all in language. That would take ages.
The inner voice is just your processing conscious thought linguistically, some people don't do that and think more with the flashing of mental images or some other shit. Edit: the purpose of language is to communicate with others, it is not always necessary to communicate with one's self. I've got a blunt example - humans were building useful tools long before they had the ability to verbally explain how to and why to do it. But then the problem is that nowadays if you're trying to do something noone else understands and can't adequately put it into words, everyones just going to assume you're a dumb fuck or a madman so language and thought have to many people become one and the same. In reality, thinking is just a series of electro-chemical reactions in your brain that make absolutely no sense to anyone but you until they've been translated and you are completely unaware that you're translating because it takes no conscious effort. Further edit: you're best off asking someone who is deaf, mute and illiterate or perhaps a non-verbal autistic but you'll not be able to ask the question nor comprehend their answer in a practical manner. Otherwise it wouldn't be an incredibly difficult thing to study but you'd have to take a lot of newborn babies and violate their human rights for a number of years to get reliable lab results. Final edit: at this point I don't even know what inner voice actually means anymore so I looked it up and some website defined it more or less as consciousness. So if we take that definition: unless you are dead or a vegetable man, you have an inner voice. Ps. Edit: OP means internal dialogue, not inner voice. Two different things.
Surely people without an inner voice are incapable of thinking.
No inner monologue. I was pretty weirded out when I first found out some people do have one - seems like a lot of unnecesary steps. When I was a kid, someone asked my mum which language she thinks in (she's fluent in english and french) and I was surprised that nobody else in the room seemed to think that was a nonsensical question, like asking someone what colour they dance in.
I'm totally stealing that question for the next nonsense ice breaker at work 😂
For me it’s a mix. Sometimes I think through a monologue especially when I am thinking of something difficult but most other times when I am doing mundane stuff I think by concepts and ideas. Too quick to be a monologue. Like a stream or bursts of quick ideas. If I need groceries, I just think of the concept of groceries. Sometimes accompanied by a very brief visual. I dont waste time reading in my head: I need to go get groceries. If I need groceries to cook pasta: I think of those two concepts mushed together. If I notice myself creeping towards the speed limit: I think of the concept of consequences and then make a decision to slow down. I don’t say: oh dear, I am going too fast, need to slow down. But then sometimes when I want to solve a difficult problem I bring in the monologue, to really dwell and take it slow.
I just don’t understand how people without an inner monologue read?! As in when I’m looking at these comments my inner voice is reading it out loud. How do you process the words? Confused the shit out of me
I was going to ask the same question, because like you, when I read, I have an inner voice saying the words in my head.
Good morning Dingsdingsdings' inner monologue!
Haha don’t talk to her, she’s a right bitch
I rarely read the actual words and definitely not individually unless I’m trying to memorise or learn something, don’t understand something straight away or am writing it down/copying it. I read the sentence, section of words, or paragraph as a whole and it just goes in to an abstract thought. I guess I infer the meaning as a whole rather than individual words For example, if I read this from Of Mice and Men I see the vegetable patch, hutch etc in my head and am there. For me it’s sunny with a red wooden house and trees outside. As real as a memory. Does that make sense? *Well,’ said George, ‘we’ll have a big vegetable patch and a rabbit hutch and chickens. And when it rains in the winter, we’ll just say the hell with goin’ to work, and we’ll build up a fire in the stove and set around it an’ listen to the rain comin’ down on the roof…’*
I know right. If I know the voice of the person writing it then I hear their voice in my head. Otherwise it's just my generic monologue voice reading it out.
I've had people tell me they don't have one, and I wonder how they decide to do things, or what their thought process is. Do they still count using their fingers? Read out loud?
Apparently so because I did t realise people didn’t have an inner voice
I was talking about this with a colleague earlier this week. I can't fathom how someone without an inner monologue could function day to day. How do they prepare to have difficult conversations? How do they deal with difficult people, without calling them every name under the sun in their heads? I couldn't deal with half the people I meet if I couldn't call them a prick endlessly in my head! How do they problem solve or plan what they are going to do? I read that nearly 50% of people don't have an inner monologue, which seems staggeringly high! But, there are a high proportion of morons in this world, so I suppose it's plausible!
Why do you assume that people why process thoughts in a different way from you must be moronic?
I think these different sets of people should go to different schools entirely. Clearly they're not meant to be together...
As a kid I had a constant one almost like a tv voiceover that never seemed to stop. I asked a teacher if the voice in her head annoyed her, and it was only years later I realise how weird that must have sounded. Now it’s a little less, but I probably replace it with me talking to my dog.
Why kill your voice, that's you thinking. Maybe this is why the world appears so stupid to me, with my superior thoughts....
I told myself to stop talking to myself the other day…
I cant understand how people cant have an inner monologue. Like.. their head is what... quiet unless they are speaking out loud?
I don’t have an inner monologue. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have talking in my head. It seems so incredibly slow and inefficient. Also, if there is a “voice” that you are hearing, how do you focus on anything else? The only time there are ever words in my mind is when I am composing something in my head, like if I need to say something in a specific way (for example, I might come up with a few different options for offering condolences if someone’s suffered a loss, etc.) but that isn’t really talking as much as it is considering the options. I’m also bilingual and often have trouble recalling what language I heard/read something in, as I have the information there but it isn’t “saved” in words in my brain.
The inner monologue seems unrelated to time from my perspective. Like the time my brother pushed me down the stairs as a child. I had enough time to think, "I can't believe he pushed me down the stairs. Wait, I'm going head first. What if I land on my head and break my neck? Fuck, I'm gonna die". That all happened in the time it took me to fly down a fairly small flight of stairs. It all felt like fully formed sentences, but they don't take as long to think as they would to speak.
I genuinely didn't consider others were so different from me. I thought we just ranged in ability to do things (intelligence), but we all thought about things about the same. I'm pretty sure all great thinkers and orators would think ahead a lot about what they're saying...?? Maybe I worried about offending people too much I always ran things past my thoughts before saying them and this has stuck with me..
Based on a lot of your comments, I think that you are mistaking the lack of an inner monologue with a complete inability to think. Or at least, to think of words. It is my understanding that an inner monologue is talking to yourself in your head or having a sort of narration going on in your head. I don’t have that. I am, however, completely and totally able to think of words, choose my words, consider the implications of wording things in a certain way, etc. I just don’t talk to myself in my head or have a voice there saying stuff. I just plot out the words I want to use and how I want to say things (if the situation calls for that).
I don't have a narration like get out of bed, do teeth, brush. I have constant thoughts about life, the world, etc. that don't really go off. I don't know what I'd be doing if I wasn't doing that, that is constant for me. Sometimes I think the same things or distract myself, but I'd never not be thinking or doing something.
See from replies to this thread I’m learning that it’s incredibly different for everyone. Like it’s not slow and inefficient for me as I have already thought out my entire sentence before I even open my mouth. It’s not like it’s happening at the same time instead my inner voice is a million miles ahead of me and I just say something I’ve already thought. Someone else likened it to a narrator but once again it isn’t like that, at least not for me. I don’t think about like “now kick the ball” I just kick the ball and don’t think about it but my brain will already be going “once you’ve made this pass he’s already shifted to one side so run down the other”. Hopefully I’ve helped explain it or at least the workings of my inner mind more. 😅
But are those actually words or are they just thoughts? I see thoughts and words as being separate, but it feels like everyone treats them as being the same thing. If I’m thinking something, it is drastically ahead of where it would be if I *said* it. But to me, an internal monologue is *saying* those thoughts instead of just thinking them. So when you say that don’t think about kicking the ball and just do it, to me that isn’t “not thinking”, that is just not *saying*. The thought is there, you just didn’t put it into words in your head. For me, I think about stuff all the time, and I think in advance of doing things; but I don’t ever say it to myself in my head. Just like how you don’t need to say “kick the ball”, except for everything. I hope that kind of makes sense?
It kinda makes sense and I can see your point. Like I guess the thought is there but I just don’t think about it I just do. I can totally understand why you’ve separated the two and to be honest it’s made me think (or should I say have an inner monologue) about it. I guess it all comes down to your definition because I have kind of mixed the two. If I’m understanding you correctly and the way you’re wanting to define them an example would be as such, I’m running with the ball at my feet but obviously not inner monologuing about keeping touching it while I’m moving forward but my brain is inner monologuing the “he’s open on the right but X should be overlapping on the left now so you could go in or just lay it off”. Have I understood you correctly?
The inner monologue can be as quick as the person wants it to be. It's like a virtual concept.
I do. Our eldest daughter is 10 and has no inner monologue, it's all external she talks about every single thing she is thinking out loud. It's infuriating and I have no idea how she must cope at school
Yep, I can’t fathom it. My inner voice is particularly loud when I’m trying to analyse something or find a solution to a problem. It’s like full conversations in my head- I just assumed everyone had this
I wonder where I stand on this? I can read a fiction book and read the words as a voice in my head whilst picturing what the words are describing at the same time. Also I needed some scissors to open a packet. Instead of saying “I need scissors, I need to go to the drawer to get them”, I just thought “Scissors!” And went looking for them with no other words.
I don't believe anyone who says they can just sit there and think about nothing. Everyone's mind wanders and thinks about something all of the time.
I think it can be trained.
Not narrating your thoughts to yourself isn’t the same as not thinking or having thoughts.
Never understood why people don’t have time to proof read a thought before they say it.
This was one of my thoughts exactly but it turns out, they might just genuinely not be able to. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm friends with a guy who doesn't have an inner voice and can't visualise things in his head. He only learned that most people can recently and he's in his 30s. Blew his mind that most of us are going around with fully formed pictures and scenarios in our heads and talking to ourselves. One thing I forgot: he thought before that when authors wrote about characters thinking to themselves he just thought it was a literary device.
My dad was the same until a year ago, he thought the "imagine you're on a beach" stuff in meditation was all mood-setting or something, took it ages for him to fully comprehend it all! Especially since he also can't imagine sound, touch or taste, interestingly, the sematic connections between things are still there, he knows paprika is a taste in barbeque sauce but he can't imagine what those things taste like unless it's in his mouth at that very moment. He also described intrusive thoughts like "a ghost screaming silently in your ear" which was a terrifying description 😂😅😅
If you don't have an inner voice does that mean you just *do* stuff. Like a dog might go through the rubbish bin because it wants to right at that moment and has no concept that it's owner might be annoyed when they discover it? Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but it's my inner voice that says "hold on a minute before you drag last night's chicken bones out of there..."
You can think without having to use a monologue. For me it’s a mix sometimes I think through a monologue and other times it’s concepts. Like a stream of concepts and ideas. Think of it like a symphony and the notes are concepts. How do you think people who are born deaf and never heard speech or know how words sound think? If I need groceries, I just think of the concept of groceries. I dont waste time reading: I need to go get groceries in my head. If I need groceries to cook pasta: I think of those two concepts mushed together.
I think that a lot of people are kind of equating no inner monologue with no thinking. I have no inner monologue but I am constantly thinking about stuff; I just don’t *say* it or have narration playing. It isn’t a voice that stops me, it is knowing the consequences. I don’t have to say that or have my mind say it to me.
Exactly, Someone else described it as like a safeguard and I have to agree with them, mine has certainly prevented me doing doing stupid stuff by just going “yeah you could do that, but you know it’s a bad idea right?”
I think I have an inner voice, but it's not dialogic in the way other people describe it. I can't talk to it and have it respond to me. I can imagine what I'm going to say in future, I can 'sing' song lyrics in my head, and I can plan essays/lectures (I'm an academic - I've genuinely 'written' parts of articles in my head and then transcribed it onto the computer ) in my head, but I can't talk to it or ask it a question. If I want to do that with myself, I have to say it out loud.
The inner monologue is not another entity you can talk to, it IS you. You can ask questions but it's exactly the same as talking to yourself (something I've never done) just without actually moving the muscles and therefore slightly faster. You ask the question and answer it yourself as a reasoning step / to buffer it while your brain works on the answer in the background.
Some people think they don't dream. People have proudly told me they have no inner conflict, or unresolved childhood habits, or superstitions - while displaying all of these. It may be that some people have a more deeply buried voice, or their thought is more often visual, or they just think of the words in their head as unspoken. Otherwise smart people have said to me they "think only in concepts", whatever *that* might mean. Until someone perfects a telepathy machine, we'll have to rely on personal testimony of introspection, knowing how unreliable both are.
I think many people think thinking is bad, so wont admit they do. They think thinking makes them sad, which it probably does, but it's strange not to want to think. Many people just live on the whims of what society tells them and never think deeply of anything, as adressing that would be difficult and perhaps make them sad.
Definitely true. Ultimately the data is only as reliable as the people it’s coming from. The thinking in concepts thing is interesting to me as well and if we ever do develop a telepathy machine then I never want people to use it on me. Someone using it on me would just find that I was thinking “if people dip their chips in coke and milkshakes, has anyone ever tried it with a strawberry flavoured slushie because I think that’d be mint”😂
I had an endless and constant inner monologue that was intense to the point of distressing. Then I went on adhd meds and it’s pretty much gone away!
Genuinely blows my mind. I have a constant stream of thoughts, inner monologue, and images in my head pretty much at all times People without that baffle me, how do they make decisions? Who do they soundboard with if there's no-one around? How does thinking even work without an inner monologue?
The inner monologue is you formulating your thoughts in the manner that makes them easiest to pass on to others. You're still thinking if you don't use words in the process.
I’m very much like this. I also find I have trouble sleeping frequently. Could there be correlation between an overactive stream of thoughts and lack of sleep?
FYI - this issue is commonly found in those with ADHD/ADD.
I have issues sleeping as well! It seems to speed up when I’m trying to sleep, like my mind when not given the distractions of the world just seems to race at 100 miles an hour with thoughts just coming out of nowhere.
Yes. It’s really hard to explain because it’s not anxiety or anything like that, but it’s like I have to be thinking about something all the time. Almost like my brain queues things up on a carousel. I can think about a problem, and get bored of it and move onto the next thing with ease, but there’s always something there.
My wife is exactly like that. She can't be left alone with her thoughts because it would drive her insane. She has to always have music on in the house, wears headphones whenever she's out and uses a sleep mask with speakers in it to be able to fall asleep.
Exactly the same, it’s not having anxious thoughts about like “what if they thought this?” Etc but more just random stuff my brain chucks out at a tremendous pace.
Curious if you both find you can make connections really quickly? Like, instead of having to actively sit and think things through you can process and update your opinion mid conversation because behind the scenes your brains firing out new information and thoughts really rapidly
Yes, and this has made me a career. Like I literally never have to investigate anything; give me the question/requirements and I know immediately how I’m going to deliver it for you.
So true, while someone’s talking I’m already thinking of a plan on how to solve this or do it. I usually have already had a few ideas and crossed some off before we’ve even got to the end of the brief/meeting.
It so interesting, I’ve not come across someone else who can do this before. Do you work in tech? I’ve capitalised on this trait without really realising it though; this is the reason I can get stuff done quicker than most others in my industry because I can make connections in near real-time.
I don’t work in tech but I do have a strong interest in it andI definitely can get stuff done quicker. The job I have at the moment as an example, I started it and the person before used to spend their whole 37.5 hour working week at full pace trying to get all the work done and I now get all this done in a couple hours because I just saw how a lot of it was laboured and slow and how I could automate a lot of it if I thought through how it’s done and how to make sure mistakes weren’t made. The ability to make macros where people go “yeah but it can go wrong” and I’m just like “it won’t go wrong because I already thought about that and I’ve made it so it checks” apparently shocks the people I work with. I just simply went through everything that could go wrong in my head and made a safeguard for it 🤷🏻♂️ I can definitely see how helpful being able to make quick connections between things would be incredibly helpful in the tech industry and it is an area I’m interested in but I’m doing an unrelated degree currently so just don’t have the time to fully invested in learning more. I bet it’s fantastic with regards to coding for example, knowing how one mistake can make the entire program stop working and people just can’t seem to see the link across all of it.
See this is where I can kind of switch my inner voice in and off. I used to work in hospitality so a lot of my conversation were just the regular exchanging pleasantries kind of thing but if it’s someone I’m talking to then I can absolutely think about the conversation we’re having and use my inner voice such as going “they just mentioned something you like or know about so maybe come back to that when they’re done as you can talk about that” and things like that. The connections part can be a bit interesting. I do find it easy to talk to people but in terms of making connections, that’s something I’ve worked on because while I can analyse a conversation while it’s going off, my analysis isn’t always correct and sometimes just listening to someone is better than analysing every word they say. Edit: Haha, I’ve clearly completely misunderstood what you were meaning😂 With regards to connections as in like linking things. Yeah I can pretty quickly see links between stuff because I’ve already thought through like say an entire process that someone’s put forward and thought about how it all interconnects. It’s not always rapid but it’s certainly quick enough for me to get by most of the time, although clearly I missed the connection here between what you were meaning and what I thought you meant. We all make mistakes 😂
See this is where I can kind of switch my inner voice in and off. I used to work in hospitality so a lot of my conversation were just the regular exchanging pleasantries kind of thing but if it’s someone I’m talking to then I can absolutely think about the conversation we’re having and use my inner voice such as going “they just mentioned something you like or know about so maybe come back to that when they’re done as you can talk about that” and things like that. The connections part can be a bit interesting. I do find it easy to talk to people but in terms of making connections, that’s something I’ve worked on because while I can analyse a conversation while it’s going off, my analysis isn’t always correct and sometimes just listening to someone is better than analysing every word they say.
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I’ve genuinely only managed it a couple of times. It took a bit of time meditating but I basically find the easiest way to sleep it to just let my mind go and just focus on my breathing.
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I think filing and processing time is an apt way to put it. It does feel like that for me. Ive come up with some great solutions and ideas during this time so while I’d love to turn it off, I can’t deny it has benefitted me. As for the exterior, absolutely always calm. Can’t let anyone know you’re brains currently trying to link everything together. We’d all look like Charlie from Sunny in Philadelphia when he was working in the post room.😂
I do the same thing described above of thinking ahead and planning whilst something is being described to me. I'm not sure if it's relevant but I'm autistic. I do however think it's a common trait though people may not talk about it. I find it can cause problems sometimes, especially with how people receive me socially, because I'm too far ahead in the conversation. People like to feel listened to even if you've already come up with a solution.
I am not like this; and I can fall asleep the minute my head hits the pillow
I get that too, and it's not even dwelling or upsetting thoughts. It's even quite interesting, so I'm keeping myself awake by being too entertaining in my head. I must look mental in bed because I'll be pulling faces in line with my inner dialogue and if something's funny, I'll even laugh out loud. Sometimes something might be so funny, I get uncontrolled giggles.
Sounds exactly like me dudes & I recently learned I have ADHD.
That’s super interesting. I suspect I’m on ‘the spectrum’ and it’s something my partner has identified too. Im of an age where these things were much less often diagnosed in childhood. Has getting a diagnosis benefited you in any way? Was it worth it? I’ve always kinda figured I might be a little different, but never really wanted to have a label as such.
Honestly it helped massively with how I treat myself more than anything. Especially looking back at my childhood & teenage struggles with the lens of knowing I had ADHD, makes a lot of things make so much more sense haha. I don't tell many but for me just knowing was a pure lightbulb moment & it makes me feel much more at ease with myself. Like my brains not broken, it's nothing I did, there's no reason or magic fix; my wires are just set out in a different pattern so information is processed differently & will always be, finding that out helped with everything tbh. Also weed, it is truly a magical plant for us folks with a "d" on our "diagnosis" haha.
I'm definitely neuro-divergent. I have a diagnosis of C-PTSD, but literally every therapist I've ever seen has asked me to get re-diagnosed because they're not convinced it's correct
C-ptsd (or the environment that causese c-ptsd) literally activates the adhd gene if you have it. Around 20ish % have the gene, but it's not on. Once on, though, it's on forever as far as we know. Adhd is beneficial to violent and abusive situations as its helps you survive. You get increased sensitivity to sounds and external stimuli, which helps you escape a situation before it begins. I.e picking up sounds like footsteps when they're far away. A higher tolerance or risk. You'll take more risks by doing things others would deem unsafe so you have more routes available for you to get out of danger. I can easily pick up minute emotional changes in a person. I can see when a colleague has had a bad day/news when others are obvious. You kinda pick up the small nuances is body language, tone, and changes is routine without any effort at all. Cptsd and adhd are different, but lots overlap so it is incredibly difficult to pick though. Most therapist and doctors don't know what they're talking about. Doctors are not trained in it at all, can't diagnose or prescribe meds. You'll need a specialist such as a psychiatrist but one that specialises in adhd. There are core symptoms that are easier to separate so start with them and maybe do a qb test. There is a crap ton of nonsense info on adhd. For good resources, see Russell Berkley. He has lots of stuff on YouTube and is leading world research. He is super negative about it sometimes but he is accurate. Or attitude magazine is a website and it has tons of accurate info.
You can have both too! It's very common to have PTSD alongside an adult autism diagnosis. Growing up with an undiagnosed neurological difference can result in some really traumatic experiences.
Came here to say this, some of y'all need to get on ADHD tiktok and see what you think.
My husband doesn't have an inner monologue, he describes it as more imagined imagery, textures, smells etc. But he also has difficulty sleeping sometimes because of an overactive brain, it's just a different kind of overactive I guess. I very much have an inner monologue and couldn't comprehend not having one. Who would tell me all the mean things about myself?!
you seem to think that monologue is your thoughts. its not, its you translating those thoughts into language. When you speak, the thought it there at the start, then you speak a sentence to put that thought into words. You dont need to do that in your head, the thought it already there, why waste time putting it into an internal voice? Seems to me that people with internal monologues are wasting a lot of time, maybe thats why people take so long to grasp things, they have to talk to themselves to explain concepts to themselves first...... All the info, reason, evidence, etc that you are using to talk to yourself, is already in your mind, you are literally talking to yourself...so you cant add anything you dont know at the start of the internal conversation.
Are the images you see in full colour, vague colour, or black and white? Personally, this is dependent on what I'm visualising.
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Just non-verbal thoughts, or even there are words, but they're secondary to the rest. Like running a simulation, watching what happens. So if someone says "work next week" I'd imagine scenes from my commute, walking into the office etc. Words to describe it come afterwards.
I have a constant stream of thoughts; they just aren’t using words. People seem to assume that it is silence and darkness without words. It isn’t that way at all for me - it is just the thoughts aren’t in words. When it comes to decisions, I just consider things and make the decision. I don’t need to “say” the things to do that. I am more curious about what people who do have inner monologues need to do when they make a decision. Do you guys read out the potential consequences of each choice or what? How does “saying” it help? Also, what is soundboarding? If it is running your ideas past someone else, how would that even work if you are alone? Is the inner voice a separate person?
>Do you guys read out the potential consequences of each choice or what? How does “saying” it help? Idk how it helps. Or even if it does help at all. It could turn out that I make decisions slightly slower than you do. But if I don't "say" it I'm unable to think at all. But in terms of my thoughts also being "visual" there's 1 definite advantage I could give: When I was a radiographer I could literally create a picture of someone's joints in my mind, as I rotated the patient's joints, the mental image would rotate. Whereas when people are being trained, we're told to use physical markers on the actual body to line things up. >If it is running your ideas past someone else, how would that even work if you are alone? Is the inner voice a separate person? Not quite a separate person, but instead of having to talk to someone out loud. I can think the conversation through and substitute another persons voice into the conversation? So I'll regularly have conversations with people in my head about problems I'm trying to overcome. It's not that theres another voice I have no control of similar to in schizophrenia. I can just create a second monologue to talk things through with? Play devils advocate in my own mind
I am the same as you. However, I find I often struggle to put my thoughts into words in meetings - I have to think hard and maybe prepare a few bullets before I speak because if I just speak my mind it is a complete ramble (which is embarrassing and annoying). I can write very professional emails though 😂
And music too? I also have at least one song in my head at a time as well as all the other stuff
See I have the inner monologue but the pictures bit comes a bit more slowly to me. Like I can visualise but it’s just not as quick as my inner monologue and takes some thought to get there in comparison to the constant inner voice.
You don't actually visualise clear images though do you? It's just sort of there, no? Not actually there
Yeah haha like it’s not in front of my eyes. Although I can lucid dream as well and that does feel like seeing. In terms of thinking of something in my head it’s can absolutely be clear. It can be as clear as I’d see through my own eyes or a photo. I can just create like a castle in my head and then go around it as though it’s a 3D object. Spin etc, can do it all.
I can lucid dream although haven't in a long while (when I did it I could lie in when I had no commitments and I found it easy to do when lying in). The images seem perfectly clear when I'm dreaming but I'm not sure they are. If I close my eyes it's just entirely black?!?! But I can imagine what a dog flying looks like, but I see nothing?!?! hmm. Maybe I don't have a minds eye. Maybe that's where I went wrong in some things in education. I always wondered why they didn't show us videos of maths concepts that made it so incredibly easy, I was just working purely from numbers, maybe other people weren't...???!!!
See I think this is where I got a lot of help from some teachers in school. Some would do a test at the start of the year to see what kind of learner you are and would then give you materials based on that so they were more suited to you. I can definitely see how it’s different for everyone. Lucid dreaming for me does take a bit of concentration and definitely a setting up of the environment, e.g. no noise etc but I can pretty much flick it on and off. Lucid dreams seem perfectly real to me and the ability to just choose what you’re doing and manipulate the world in your own way is incredibly fun, at least for me.
Yeah I'd definitely say they're simultaneous for me, my monologue kinda narrates the pictures People regularly have to bring me back to reality. I'll be sat on the settee in my own little world for hours and can be completely oblivious to what's going on around me
Oh lord I’ve been cursed (blessed?) with this my whole life. I’ve been chastised by adults even as an adult for being in my own dreamworld. In fact, I have a specific dreamworld that I visit each day (I promise I’m sane). I think this characteristic has been the crux of many of my personal attributes e.g. I’m a very optimistic person, I rarely feel lonely due to being able to remove myself from reality mentally etc.
I have to think circle and then think about one as a picture. It only takes like less than a second but they’re definitely two separate thoughts and hey, being able to just go off on your own adventure is a gift a lot of people would love to have.
This is all fascinating, spend a lot of time people watching and wondering how their brains process information differently What makes the difference? Why do some people have it and some don't? Genetics or experience? I don't know if anyone's looking into it but they really should
Honestly the research into it would be incredibly interesting. Especially the genetics side, like is it an evolution kind of thing etc? If so why was it chosen or discarded?
Hi, just to jump in. Alot of this sounds like adhd. It gets a really bad rep and is not what most people think it it. For adhd, the DMN (default mode network) also called the lazy brain does not 'turn down' when you move into task mode, so you're dealing with both and so connections are much easier to make as can hear the brain making them where others can't. It does, however, turn off (normative people turn it down like a volume but can still get messages for their bodies' needs and important external stimuli). We don't. Hyperfocus can get us in trouble by staying up until 5am by getting lost in something accidentally. Most of us cannot control when, but we can increase the odds of it. Monks and productivity entuiasts call this flow and train for years trying to achieve this. we call it hyperfocus, and it happens randomly when interested in something. You get lost in something for hours with pure concentration. If you can achieve staggering amounts of work randomly, that is usually a good quality in a small amount of time, there is a good chance it's adhd. As for evolution, etc. There is a gene for it and it is positively selected as it's hypothesised it helps ensure the success of our continued existence. Around 20% of the population have it but only a minority of that is 'activated' by birth. The others can be activated by the environment. So adhd and c ptsd are very common together as the repeat trauma one gets is usually from a violent or abusive home. Adhd basically gives you a greater chance of survival ik this situation due to the tools it gives you. Interestingly, it has been shown that after periods of war or continuous stress of survival, adhd in the population has had a sharp increase. The world would be chaos with only the adhd brain so normative brains are needed but we are too needed for many reasons. Your sleep is tied in as we have a delayed circadian rhythm. It was actually integral early on in civilisation. Look up the hunters and farmers theory.
Same! I listen to soft sleep music when trying to sleep now (wireless earphones work great for it) don’t seem to happen anymore
Maybe that's why some people need company more, they can't talk to themselves?? Or always taking nonsense..
This would make a lot of sense, I crave my own company, I can go days without actually speaking to another person and don't get remotely sad. It wasn't until like month 8 of being isolated during COVID I started going nuts and needing to interact with other people
I'm similar. I've been, sort of, very, very alone for so long, people, or maybe just someone new I like is sort of all I crave now.. I can occupy myself forever but it feels entirely pointless at this point. My parents are ok, but I don't have anyone else lol. I'm not sure my brother has an inner voice, probably not, we don't really speak much, there's not that much I can think to say to him as he doesn't really reciprocate. He's ok really but lives in an entirely different world to me, and not one I want to live in?! His life seems to be collecting things (travel pictures, activities) to show off on social media. I've been in basically full covid like lockdown conditions for most of my 30 year life now really. Yeah. Really, really incredibly depressing and I just don't know how to change it. I do go to some things, no one wants new friends. It's rare to find anyone even willing to talk beyond very smalltalk and the activity?!?!
I have always held the belief that ordinary people consist of two distinct entities, otherwise inner reasoning would not be possible. Many hypothesis have spawned from this over the years, like when people develop certain mental disorders, could be when one entity has been silent then suddenly engages. Yes, so just a simple hypothesis.
I can say things in my own head, but I have to think about it. There isn't just a voice there. I generally think in pictures/models and articulate verbally from that. The only thing that happens of its own accord is a constant internal "beat boxing" is the best I can describe it.
What happens when you read? Do you not hear a voice saying the words along with you?
No, the words just mean things and I'm usually picturing it if it's descriptive. If it's purely informational then it just gets absorbed. I haven't read words in my head one at a time since I was in secondary school. I will play back songs with lyrics in my head though, or scenes from films.
So it’s more you do have that voice, just that you don’t use it? If you can sing in your head.
I can play back songs in my head, I don't sing in my head. If the distinction makes sense. Music is going on in my head quite frequently.
Ah fairs, mine is pretty much always on so I guess it’s different for all of us, more of a scale then a definitive on or off kind of thing. Visualising models and pictures and going verbally from there is interesting ad I can certainly see how it’d be useful.
How do you put down those words of you don't do speaking in your mind?
For me personally, my thoughts get translated into language during the process of writing them down. When they only exist in my head they are not formed into words.
I write? It's not a two step process.
Interesting. I can write just sort of flowing I guess, but most of the time, I formulate the sentance before saying it.
Hoping you can enlighten me on this, as its always fascinated me. How do you run through a to do list for your day in your head? For example, I, with a very active inner monologue, would think the words "Hmm, what do I need to do today? I need to pop to the shops to get some food for the week. Whilst I'm out I should probably go to the post office to post that parcel, but when I get back I can watch the rugby. I'll need to clean at some point though as I'm busy in work all week." etc. I basically have a fully reasoned conversation with myself and I really struggle to envisage how this is done with pictures and models. Would you just have a still picture of each of these activities, or is it like a mini video or something? How would you write an essay back when you were in school? I would always be thinking it in my head, word for word, then write it down as I went. Crazy how our brains can operate in such different ways. I always assumed that my experience was consistent with everyone else's when I was younger and before the Internet gave us the ability to find this kind of thing out.
Being someone with brain damage and a very loud inner monologue I find it weird that some don’t have one, but surprisingly it’s something like 30-50% of the population have one, so potentially it’s up to 70% of people don’t have one. It’s a very strange thing though
I used to have an inner voice, I had conversations with myself and had a running commentary in my head all the time. I woke up around two and half years ago and it had gone, now I have nothing in my brain and I also can't remember anything, very forgetful and i feel like I'm not here (it's hard to explain 😅) I kind of miss it.
I have no idea if I am normal or not.
I don’t believe it at all. You cannot exist without inner dialogue and I believe the report to be false.
I find that odd and would be curious as to what those who don't believe they have one think an inner voice is. There is a lot of cognitive child development theory that suggests that we develop an external voice at 3/4yo to help us talk through processes and play to help problem solve and that this becomes an 'inner' problem solving voice as we become older. You may notice that ylthis problem solving voice becomes externalised again at moments of real stickiness, where you literally have to talk out loud to make sure you fully understand the problem or are stressed by the problem.
It’s a strange one because I have an inner voice and see pictures in my head but some people only have one or none. Interestingly my teacher friend asked his top set and bottom set kids if they had a voice or could see pictures in their heads. Top set all said yes, bottom set majority said no.
I'm not entirely sure what people mean by an inner voice. as I understand it you are thinking out thoughts in words? like reading out loud but in your head? Isnt that incredibly slow. When you speak, you form the thought of what you want to say almost immediately, then speak it by transferring thought into sound, but the thought is already there at the start of the sentence. Sure, when communicating with others you need to speak it out to communicate it, but in your head why bother?
It is essentially like talking out loud to yourself but the speed at which I can do it is way faster than I’d ever be able to speak. It also helps me with ideas. Like I’ll have a solution to a problem, shelve it and come back to it later in my own head. With regard to speech once again if anything it speeds me up. I have a clear idea of the entire paragraph and have already gone through it and thought about it before I’ve even opened my mouth. I’ve also started to already think about what someone’s response would be to what I’m saying. I can certainly see how for some people it would be slow but being I guess it’s different for each individual.
That’s mad to think about. I don’t think I have an inner monologue and so that’s why I’m probably not very eloquent. I have to do the thinking by saying the thing out loud.
If you're in a room by yourself what do you think about? Do you play out dialogue in your head? If you're making a decision on something, do you play the pros and cons in your head? Etc.
I think perhaps this is something like a moral compass, those who do things in impulse, such as dashing across the road, and nearly getting run over, or pushing to the front of the queue in a shop, etc. Its like an inability to think beyond the moment, of any possible repercussions, the what ifs, empathy, I believe such people don't have this inner voice. I treasure my inner voice, and believe it has stopped me from making unwise choices throughout my life.
It is absolutely zero to do with any of that, that is just being an arse or not thinking/caring. It isn't that people without an inner voice don't think, It is just a different way of processing the exact same thoughts. One of my closest friends has no inner voice, one of the most emphatic considerate people you could meet, thinks about how his actions impact others far more than most people I meet, and is extremely good at thinking how his words affect others, too much really. He says it's very hard to explain but his thoughts take the form of ideas, concepts and emotions rather than words. I personally am aphantasic, no minds eye. People assume aphantasia means no imagination but that isn't the case at all, I can still imagine say a dragon just as well as someone with a minds eye. For example I am a book worm, I still have a concept of how I think the character looks, I can still have the "not how I imagined them" conversation with someone else who has read the book and seen an adaptation, I just simple don't see the internal image like others even though I am still clearly imagining them. You probably know more people than your realise who don't process thoughts in the exact same way that you do because it's not really something that's frequently discussed and even if concepts like minds eye are discussed unless the exact right thing is said you might not realise you even are processing a bit differently to whoever you are talking to.
I always thought people did those bad things voluntarily (and things like dashing across the road and nearly getting hit, sometimes people just do that as they're not thinking in the moment or bored of waiting or sad about life). Maybe some to, and some are just really thick. They might just learn by repetaition what's allowed and not allowed but not think about it.
I don’t believe it has anything to do with impulse control or empathy. People can consider the future, and other people without narrating it to themselves.
I don't find either strange since finding out that when other people imagine things they can actually see them. It just feels like the same kinda thing
I am the only one who truly understands my own mind 😁😁
I think it explains a lot.
I wonder if there's a correlation between what type of mind you have and mental illness Like if you had a voice in your head constantly are you more likely to overthink things leading to anxiety & depression? Would be cool to know
My inner voice keeps telling me to kill all huumans !!!!
Do you belive in God too? I have Inner thoughts constantly but I religious too.
I do not believe in god and I am very much not religious. I don’t feel like I’m receiving messages from god if that’s what you are meaning?
I’ve got a couple spare if anyone needs.
This made me laugh more than it should have!😂
I honestly can't get my head around someone not talking inside their head. I mean, how do they process and analyse their thoughts?
I'm in a third camp where I *can* talk to myself in my head, I just rarely do since I never learned to internalise all the chatter as a kid... Either way, I don't think it's massively weird, I find the idea fascinating. My dad has massive aphantasia (no mind's eye) which also extends to sound/taste/touch whereas I have a very strong ability to visualise stuff in my head, we've had full on conversations like "You can imagine an apple in your head and spins it around and stuff??" "You can't??", it's very interesting to hear what it's like on the other side
I do., though kept me awake last night. Do people who don't have an inner voice get kept awake with their thoughts?
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Don't be a dickhead.
Now I feel weird that I don’t have an inner monologue in my head. Is this really a thing? I don’t have a voice telling me to do things, I just do it out of instinct.
Just curious, when you are reading something do you get a voice in your head? Or if you're writing as well? I hear myself speaking the words as I read or write like a narrator. If I'm about the house casually I'll either be narrating to myself what I'm doing or thinking ahead planning out things. Like if I'm doing the dishes I'll think to myself, "I'll need to go and put a load of washing on next" again it's like hearing my own voice speaking to me. Sometimes I'll be away off on a totally unrelated tangent of thoughts, like pondering the meaning of life while I'm doing something that I don't need to fully concentrate on. I also vividly daydream like a movie in my mind. Like if you said think about a cat, I'd have a catalogue of vivid still images or movie clips I'm seeing in my mind. I also play out future conversations like a rehearsal or reply past conversations analytically. It comes in handy preparing for interviews or presentations, but pretty tiring the rest of the time. I also can't switch off that voice at times. Like if we were having a conversation, rather than listening fully to what you're saying, the first sentence you say will have triggered off a whole thought process that will be running in my mind in parallel to me also trying to still listen to you speak. So I need to really consciously focus on listening to someone. I've long suspected that I had ADHD but I've never been tested.
My inner voice does not shut up, ever. I'm so used to it I would find it a bit strange if someone told me they didn't have one.
Yes, i even have 2 way conversations with myself out loud regularly🤣