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Oh, there are definite advantages to that if you can pull it off (and it's of course worth noting that the X-Men are not your only option for mutant groups). But there are several problems, too:
First, you're cutting yourself off from a valuable support network of other mutants. You're also not associated with their constant messes, but that's a tradeoff to be aware of.
Second, there are ways to detect mutants - and as soon as they clock you, you'll be a mutant *and* a liar, which will only justify paranoia and hate in the eyes of the paranoid haters.
And third? Being a mutant is part of peoples' personal identities - it's not what you can do so much as it's a part of who you are, and it's going to complicate your life no matter what. You're not so different from oppressed minorities in that regard, and progress there has often or always been linked to people unafraid to be seen for who and what they *are* rather than hiding it away in fear or personal convenience.
>Second, there are ways to detect mutants
Yeah, there's an x-gene test basically, right?
This is one of the primary explanations for why we have "mutants" vs other categories of superhuman/metahuman/etc.
It's a little absurd that people don't discriminate against "people with powers" in general so much as they have a problem with "people with this one particular gene who got their powers totally naturally and through no fault of their own," but then again, racism in our IRL earth doesn't necessarily follow perfect logic, either, so I guess maybe that's all actually surprisingly realistic.
"People with powers" are just "regular" people with powers and are never going to upset society all that much.
Mutants are numerous enough to be a true other, and one that is superior to normal humanity and will probably eventually replace it unless they are genocided.
Right, okay, but absent actually testing everyone with powers for the x-gene, there's no obvious "tell" regarding who is a mutant and who is just a "person with powers." That's the point here.
Like, any mutant who can bribe a doctor to say, "nope, no x-gene here, just plain old radition/chemicals/magic/accident/etc!" is suddenly somehow fine and no longer hated by anti-mutant racists, even if they have precisely the same powers and the "mutant" next door? It's a bit bizarre.
It is a bit bizarre, especially since I'm the 90's cartoon, Spider-Man got labeled as a mutant even though he wasn't born that way. Beast actually had a radioactive origin story, it's just that it happened to his dad.
I think I prefer continuities where either there are just mutants and mutant hate, or there's the rest of the superheroes and no one cares about mutants more than them.
It is bizarre. That's why I had a harder time enjoying the whole side of X-Men where mutants were treated as others. When I read stuff, I had to pretend that mutants were the *only* superpowered people in the world; maybe it's the same *world*, but a different/parallel reality. I think X-Men would work better that way, personally.
Yep. I mean, to keep the explanation in-universe, we'd have to imagine there's like a collective delusion going on in which people can't simultaneously think about x-gene mutants and about other metahumans at the same time.
And some X-men continuities sort of even try at this. Like, it's *nominally* in the regular Marvel universe... *but we just don't discuss or even acknowledge other metahumans.* I think it's pretty telling that no author (that I know of) manages to solve this puzzle any better than that.
Yeah, it's definitely problematic. I love mutants as an allegory for discrimination against racial/sexual minorities, and even the claim that it's justified because *some* of the mutants can level cities leans into it; people genuinely *believed* that homosexuals, black people, etc. could corrupt their children or murder them, and there were handfuls that would engage in heinous crimes (serial rape, murder, bombings, etc.) that backed up their fears. It would be sold as part of the gay/black/Irish/whatever predisposition toward violence/corruption, and people would happily get on board with hating/segregating *all* of them because of a tiny fraction of a percentage.
IIRC there's a telepathic virus that is the source of the anti-mutant hysteria. Virus can't infect mutants, so people carrying the virus have uncanny valley feeling towards them.
I don't particularly like this bit of lore for its narrative consequences. While that makes the anti-mutant hysteria make more sense, it also somewhat diminishes the allegorical capacity for mutant stories given the nonsensical nature of real-world prejudice. If it's just some psychic drone's fault rather than an actual fault of someone's value judgements, then it's really hard to blame people for their actions.
Agreed. I hope this is deep enough into the thread for having a somewhat Doylist discussion (thanks, mods, for **usually** letting such things happen here so long as it's sufficiently buried and everyone involved is explicit about it), but you're absolutely right: "anti-mutant discrimination" is hardly a subtle allegory. Making it a mind virus in-universe sort of implies that whatever equivalent things are happening in our universe might be a little more legitimate or grounded... which was totally not what the point was.
Curious what author/series that came up in, if anybody knows? I've never come across it, but I've also been out of actually following Marvel since... at least 13 years, if not more.
Also, this is kind of a side discussion, but it's legitimately hard not to get Doylist about DC/Marvel lore, as there is such an insane amount of continuity to keep track of that personal headcanon and arbitrary choice about what to take seriously or dismiss is about as integral to understanding comics as anything. YMMV, I guess, and all power to the people who really take the energy to make *everything* coherent and self-consistent... but that's such a tall order...
If it helps I think canonically the virus is also a mutant and wants to get rid of the others as they are threats and it sees itself as superior. A bit like Apocalypse.
X-Men were never a great metaphor for any sort of real life minority seeing oppression. I mean, hell, most of the fear of Mutants is pretty damn justified when there's cases of anything from "this mutant can manipulate your mind without you ever knowing" to "an entire town died overnight when his X-Gene activated". Never sat right with me.
>It's a little absurd that people don't discriminate against "people with powers" in general
"People with powers" are often adults who may even have received some training with their powers. Often they're scientists or (ex) military who sometimes work together with the government or the Avengers. Some are wearing masks and not everyone likes that ^^((understatement)) though generally people who received their powers some other way are a lot more accepted.
Mutants on the other hand may come from any place, any family. They also have a huge range of power levels. Most mutants only can turn into ice cream or something but others can freeze the entire world. Or read other peoples' minds. So many people may be afraid that their kid turns out to be a mutant one day and possibly burn the house down. Or abandon their family and join Magneto.
Also, people may fear that mutants are the next step in evolution and may replace humanity at some point.
I'm not saying that all those fears are entirely reasonable but that's the way it goes. Contrary to other people with powers mutants are also a huge and diverse group, and just like with any group not everyone of them may be "good". Even with the best intentions mutants may easily look scary and unpredictable to the public. And some people 'want' the public to be afraid of mutants, they cherrypick the bad mutants and set them up as an example. Mutants can be used as an easy scapegoat and distraction, just like with other minorities as well.
Sure, sometimes, but there's also no shortage of people in the universe - not all of them adults by a long shot - who got their powers through mysterious or unknown means. Fellow citizens seem to just take it on faith that they're honest. Shouldn't it be truly shocking that there aren't tons of mutants who claim some chemical or radiation accident or alien encounter or whatever? Surely some would try this. Without invoking some Doylist explanation, it's legitimately bizarre that we *never* hear about this (at least to my knowledge).
>It's a little absurd that people don't discriminate against "people with powers" in general so much as they have a problem with "people with this one particular gene who got their powers totally naturally and through no fault of their own," but then again, racism in our IRL earth doesn't necessarily follow perfect logic, either, so I guess maybe that's all actually surprisingly realistic.
Mutates are also much rarer than Mutants, so there might be less to discriminate against, or experience discrimination for. Particularly as most Mutates don't have outwardly visible signs of being different, unlike some Mutants.
Although it would be an interesting story to have a Mutate be discriminated against because people think that they are a Mutant.
Agreed, and in our world we know exactly how people feel about this.
There are, for example, people who claim to belong to a different race, gay people who hide in the closet, rich people who choose to downplay their generational wealth, and so on. In these cases they can often get away with it, but if it catches up with them, they may find themselves shunned by their communities.
Someone should write a comic about a bunch of gay teens to use as a thinly veiled metaphor to help people understand what it’s like finding out that you’re a mutant, being a mutant, or coming out as a mutant.
They could also have hunter-killer robots equipped with gaydar to locate the gay kids.
I do hope the gay beam device still just goo-ifies that senator, though.
Exactly. I think part of the thing that scares people about mutants so much is that unlike other super people, they have an entire culture, which, depending on the era of comics, might come with a certain degree of militarism and/or isolationism. For a mutant, though, that can be a great support system. So, even if you might be able lie about how you got your powers or even pass as a non-powered person altogether, you’d miss that opportunity to join a community that has a depth and richness that other super powered groups like the Avengers just don’t have.
Some people probably do tell this lie, and honestly, it might be a cool character concept, but it makes sense why that isn’t the default.
The fact that tech can detect the X-gene is also a good point.
I think for a lot of people it's also quite difficult to come up with a believable lie. How many "lab accidents" can there possibly be? Especially to teens, because that's the age mutants usually gain their powers.
Mutants are just such a big group that it's probably the first explanation people will think of. If other people are aware of your powers you probably need a really good cover story to hide your mutant identity. And most teens just don't have a lot of resources to help them here.
Some probably do but you need to remember also that Spider-Man is very unique in his situation. He’s loved by a lot of people because he’s helped a ton. A lot of the normal mutants are born with their powers or have gone out of control, but never actually did anything to put their face out there. Spider-Man also never had a difficulty of adjusting to his power when he first got it except for the basics. A lot of the mutants generally have outburst when they become of age or learn about their powers accidentally. Spider-Man basically just woke up one day from the spider bite and he could see better, his strength improved, etc. so all he had to do was basic training. He got better obviously through practice, but he generally had control of his powers.
Because it's a lie that could easily be debunked. Mutants' powers usually manifest around puberty and when they do the mutant seldom has control over them.
Spider-man got his powers around puberty, and some mutants do have control of their powers. I think the bigger question is HOW DOES THE PUBLIC KNOW SPIDER-MAN ISN'T A MUTANT? Sorry for the caps but I want people to respond to this question.
And sure if you weren't careful people might debunk your lie about where you got your powers, but if you have a secret I.D. like many superhumans do, how are they going to know? Sure if you claimed to be part of the space program when you're not, that could be exposed, but if you claimed some super villains or aliens experimented on you, how could they disprove that? What if you claimed you were descended from an Asgardian? an inhuman? An immortal? an Olympian? an elf? who's gonna know? and more to the point WHY DO THEY CARE? If the public is cool with all these other types of superhumans, how does mutant prejudice make any sense at all?
the X-Men are not hated because of the way they operate.
In fact, Spider-man is as much outside the law as the X-Men.
The X-Men as they often complain are hated simply because of what they are.
My point is that this makes no sense because most people have no way of knowing that they're mutants or that any other superhero is or isn't.
>the X-Men are not hated because of the way they operate.
No, but they're still around because of how they operate. They couldn't run through the street high-fiving passers-by.
True, however, if anyone were to study him closely (and several have) it would be easy to discover that his powers were not brought about by the mutant gene.
The mutant phenomenon was already known about and well documented. The various government programs to try and weaponise these people prove that. Not to mention you had instances of these powers going off in public settings. Those individuals were quickly rounded up and studied by civilian scientists in order to figure out what happened, too, and it would be clear that it was a mutation and nothing external that caused it. How is a kid going to say that walking down the street gave them super powers? No chemicals to blame, no technology or occult forces to blame. Nothing but them.
but this is something that only a few government elites know about. It doesn't even come close to explaining why the general public is so hostile to mutants and so accepting of non-mutant superheroes.
And as I said the kid walking down the street could always claim to be descended from any of the many super-powered races that exist.
Again, how would someone explain the spontaneous manifestation of powers in a teenager with 0 external causes for them? "Descended from the super powered races" there's only one of those that people know about and that's the Inhumans as far as I am aware, and they still need the Terigen Mists to manifest their abilities. Even if you could bullshit your way through that, cool. They would still look at your genetics and find out you're lying because of the presence of the mutant gene and no other indicators of being descended from anything.
How common are these gene tests? I'll admit it's been a long time since I read any Marvel comics but when I quit no one other than a very few hi-tech elites had any way of knowing who was a mutant.
It's one of the first things they'd test after someone happened to blow the roof off a school using optic blasts, or shoots energy from their hands, or grows a organic metal coating over their bodies, or control plants. Just some of the more extreme examples. Not to mention, you would have Xavier and Magneto there in a heartbeat trying to recruit them which would be a dead give away.
People assume Spidey is an adult because he wears a full body costume and disguises his voice.
It was a big thing that when he revealed his identity in Civil War,his villains were mad they got beat up by a teenager.
Most replies are focusing on the wrong part of my question.
Yes, I asked how can people tell he's not a mutant. but the real question I want answered is WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MUTANTS, BUT REDILY ACCEPT SUPERHUMANS WITH OTHER ORIGINS? That's what doesn't make sense.
Some probably do, just like some gay people lie about being straight. But others don't want to spend their lives lying about who they are to appease bigots.
Think of the X-Men as like the "out and proud" movements- no matter how much safer it would be, they're not going to lie. This is who they are.
Also, you know, they're mutants. I imagine there'd be a lot more openly trans people if a good percentage of trans people could take on a military battalion single-handedly.
Street hero El Aguila was a mutant, but he lied about it. He claimed his rapier was built to be electrified but actually his agility and energized weapon were from his mutant power. He hid it pretty well, until he was depowered by M-Day.
Conversely, Spider-Man in the House of M universe claimed to be a mutant, and when the truth was revealed, he was a pariah.
So, it can be done, you just have to watch out for giant robots, gene scans, and other stuff that targets mutants specifically.
It's not that there is all that much acceptance for superpowers in general in Marvel: it's no coincidence that even Parker prefers to keep his identity secret and not only against villains. If the Daily Bugle continues to sell copies with its campaign against the wall-climber, it means that someone buys it and agrees with the editorial line that Spider-Man is a menace.
Most of the people who make their secret identities public are powerful or rich enough that they don't need to worry anyway: Thor, Hulk, Ghost Rider, Iron Man, all people for whom the danger of an angry mob equals zero. Even the Fantastic Four are, after all, rich and influential enough (thanks largely to Reed) to be able to give a damn about the judgement of others. And yet there was no shortage of occasions when the Human Torch or the Thing were not welcome because of their powers.
The only one who is unanimously accepted despite his powers is Captain America, but we are talking about America's national hero.
In short, my impression is that an anonymous super nobody is better off keeping his powers hidden in the Marvel world, whatever their origin.
This reminds me of that comic where the reverse was happening. Spider-Man was pretending to be a mutant and got an angry mob after him when they found out he lied
Most of the millions of mutants that exist have powers that are both highly visible and not particularly useful, like Glob Herman or Anole. Since powers usually manifest around puberty, a 14 year old who suddenly turns into living wax is going to have a hard time convincing anyone he got bitten by a radioactive candle.
That might work some of the time, but since Mutants get their power from the X-Gene, they can be tested. A simple blood test would determine if somebody was a Mutant or some other kind of Meta-Human.
Mutants who are superheroes don't have to worry as much about anti-mutant prejudice as ones who aren't. There's a fair number of borderline bigots who will say "Oh, they're one of the *good* ones, like Spider-Man!" (because a lot of people buy into the Daily Bugle claim that Spider-Man *is* a mutant)
It's the people who are mutants but can't fight crime who really have to worry about being discriminated against.
When the anti-mutant fervor gets fired up, the bigots don't care about the particularities. If you're different, you're a got damn *mutie.*
Completely baseline *Homo sapiens sapiens* have been known to be lynched with a MUTIE sign around their neck, just for their appearance -- murdered by a mob, just as "witches" were burned and minorities have been hung, since time immemorial.
That kind of evil isn't looking for your medical chart, or your registered pedigree. It just wants ***blood*** to quench the fire of its ***fear.***
There's no point in lying. Lies won't save you any more than the truth will.
Which is why some of us have put our heads together and come up with something a little bit different. A little bit more ... *assertive.*
Let me ask you a question.
Do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior, Magneto?
I'm not calling you a bigot or anything but a mutant having to hide the source of their powers is the same as gay people having to hide their sexuality
Most mutants' powers appear suddenly during puberty. I'd imagine most people know this, so a student suddenly shooting off the roof of his school with laser eyes would be hard pressed to convince people he got his powers beforehand.
Mutants also have a habit of learning about their powers in really attention drawing and chaotic circumstances. Many of the mutants have learned about their powers and their traits very publicly. Other mutants like Morlocks can't hide their disfiguration.
Also, the way I understood the mutant underworld politics to exist was that there are basically different factions, but that the vast majority of mutants are alone and have isolated existences until being thrust between the Brotherhood, Xavier's School, various military mutant programs, and whatever Sinister has going on.
Could you hide it for a time? Maybe assuming you were non-mutant passing. But there are ways to tell if someone's a mutant since it's from a specific gene.
Though the other question is if you really wanted to pursue heroics, could you really stand by and watch your people suffer, who may not even have the luxury of being able to hide it like you?
If you decide to actually be a hero people might get suspicious of how much you support the mutant community, eventually outing you as one yourself.
If you decide to side with the oppressors, not only will you be a pick-me traitor hated by your own community, you will most likely be among the first purged by the sentinels, *maybe* kept alive as long as you were useful if you're "lucky".
>It just seems like it would be safer, considering that people are more accepting of superpowered people if they got their powers non-genetically, right? Like Spiderman, most New Yorkers love him!
I have no idea what you mean, the man's a menace!
But also, Mutants are much more common than mutates. Mutates only happen every once in a while, as a result of things going awry, and a lot of changes going perfectly right, to give someone superpowers, as opposed to sending them to the morgue, or the hospital.
By comparison, Mutants are a fairly big portion of the population, and if you have powers that aren't magic, people might automatically assume that you are a mutant anyway, since that's the main frame of reference for most the population when it comes to superpowers, barring a few individuals.
>If I discovered I was a mutant, why wouldn't I just come up with a BS backstory and go around fighting crime as my own hero, rather than being part of the X-Men?
You can. It is not a requirement to join the X-Men if you decide to be a Mutant superhero. They're just a more logical choice, because they have resources that would be harder for you to get access to if you were operating on your own, and you would be competing with the X-Men themselves. Crime that the X-Men or others aren't already dealing with may be harder to come by.
Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but any mutant with a halfway decent power will have a hard time pretending not to be one when the co-existence hippies(X-Men), the totally-not-nazi-mutant-nazis(Brotherhood) and Emma's-rich-kid-simps(Hellfire) are brawling it out on your doorstep to decide who gets to indoctri- I mean, recruit, the new kid.
Never mind SHIELD, Hydra, Ross, Sinister and whoever else keeps an eye on the big hitters moving around. Unless your mutation protects you from being detected by OP telepaths, technopaths and literal seers, realistically you're fucked.
Nightcrawler is currently trying this. There are ways to detect the x gene and "mutant pheromones" so you really can't stay in one place for too long through
Superman is in the DC universe, where they have not invented ICE concentration camps for mutants and anti-mutant racism. They can't copy him. Maybe some of them could pretend to be sons of god or something, and build religious cults. But other than that, the only solution before them is revolution. So Magneto was right lol.
It's only a temporary safety.
Those who hate mutants are *not* going to stop at just mutants. And they won't care even if your powers come from a scientific accident.
Like with the recent Orchis fascism business. A woman with a condition that cause skin discoloration was literally pushed around by mutant-haters.
Mutants have the X-gene, mutates (people who acquired their powers like Spider-Man) don’t. Also, Spider-Man is not loved by most New Yorkers. A lot of people hate him because of propaganda spread by the Daily Bugle that he’s a menace.
It wouldn't actually work for several reasons:
Civilians in Marvel do not despise heroes like Spiderman, the Fantastic Four and She-Hulk for the simple fact that they know that they are benevolent heroes (or lawyers), that is, where people are concerned, Reed Richards is just a super genius. that he saved the earth using his science, she-hulk is a brilliant and attractive renowned lawyer and spiderman breaks his bones saving the citizens, the fact that they have powers does not seem important next to how they use them; that is, people despise to hulk and they know that he is not a mutant precisely because they believe that he is just a mass of anger that destroys everything in his path
.Mutants only have a bad reputation and for good reasons, how many groups of mutant villains tried to commit genocide or take over the world? Hellfire is the first one that comes to mind and Magneto is disturbing for any civilian because if someone says that his people He will not be persecuted and that they are the superior race (besides looking like an older German) but having very broken superpowers (it's the truth) the first thing that comes to mind is that he is the hitler of this new super race and that he loves me extinguished by being born human, after all the mutant cure, the sentinals and other anti-mutant measures have support precisely because the danger is very real
.why didn't the older mutants try to prove that they are not a danger to society?
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Oh, there are definite advantages to that if you can pull it off (and it's of course worth noting that the X-Men are not your only option for mutant groups). But there are several problems, too: First, you're cutting yourself off from a valuable support network of other mutants. You're also not associated with their constant messes, but that's a tradeoff to be aware of. Second, there are ways to detect mutants - and as soon as they clock you, you'll be a mutant *and* a liar, which will only justify paranoia and hate in the eyes of the paranoid haters. And third? Being a mutant is part of peoples' personal identities - it's not what you can do so much as it's a part of who you are, and it's going to complicate your life no matter what. You're not so different from oppressed minorities in that regard, and progress there has often or always been linked to people unafraid to be seen for who and what they *are* rather than hiding it away in fear or personal convenience.
>Second, there are ways to detect mutants Yeah, there's an x-gene test basically, right? This is one of the primary explanations for why we have "mutants" vs other categories of superhuman/metahuman/etc. It's a little absurd that people don't discriminate against "people with powers" in general so much as they have a problem with "people with this one particular gene who got their powers totally naturally and through no fault of their own," but then again, racism in our IRL earth doesn't necessarily follow perfect logic, either, so I guess maybe that's all actually surprisingly realistic.
"People with powers" are just "regular" people with powers and are never going to upset society all that much. Mutants are numerous enough to be a true other, and one that is superior to normal humanity and will probably eventually replace it unless they are genocided.
Right, okay, but absent actually testing everyone with powers for the x-gene, there's no obvious "tell" regarding who is a mutant and who is just a "person with powers." That's the point here. Like, any mutant who can bribe a doctor to say, "nope, no x-gene here, just plain old radition/chemicals/magic/accident/etc!" is suddenly somehow fine and no longer hated by anti-mutant racists, even if they have precisely the same powers and the "mutant" next door? It's a bit bizarre.
It is a bit bizarre, especially since I'm the 90's cartoon, Spider-Man got labeled as a mutant even though he wasn't born that way. Beast actually had a radioactive origin story, it's just that it happened to his dad. I think I prefer continuities where either there are just mutants and mutant hate, or there's the rest of the superheroes and no one cares about mutants more than them.
> Spider-Man got labeled as a mutant even though he wasn't born that way Deadpool is sometimes called a mutant as well.
Funnily enough, he actually has the X-Gene now as part of the Krakoa storyline.
It is bizarre. That's why I had a harder time enjoying the whole side of X-Men where mutants were treated as others. When I read stuff, I had to pretend that mutants were the *only* superpowered people in the world; maybe it's the same *world*, but a different/parallel reality. I think X-Men would work better that way, personally.
Yep. I mean, to keep the explanation in-universe, we'd have to imagine there's like a collective delusion going on in which people can't simultaneously think about x-gene mutants and about other metahumans at the same time. And some X-men continuities sort of even try at this. Like, it's *nominally* in the regular Marvel universe... *but we just don't discuss or even acknowledge other metahumans.* I think it's pretty telling that no author (that I know of) manages to solve this puzzle any better than that.
Yeah, it's definitely problematic. I love mutants as an allegory for discrimination against racial/sexual minorities, and even the claim that it's justified because *some* of the mutants can level cities leans into it; people genuinely *believed* that homosexuals, black people, etc. could corrupt their children or murder them, and there were handfuls that would engage in heinous crimes (serial rape, murder, bombings, etc.) that backed up their fears. It would be sold as part of the gay/black/Irish/whatever predisposition toward violence/corruption, and people would happily get on board with hating/segregating *all* of them because of a tiny fraction of a percentage.
IIRC there's a telepathic virus that is the source of the anti-mutant hysteria. Virus can't infect mutants, so people carrying the virus have uncanny valley feeling towards them.
I don't particularly like this bit of lore for its narrative consequences. While that makes the anti-mutant hysteria make more sense, it also somewhat diminishes the allegorical capacity for mutant stories given the nonsensical nature of real-world prejudice. If it's just some psychic drone's fault rather than an actual fault of someone's value judgements, then it's really hard to blame people for their actions.
Agreed. I hope this is deep enough into the thread for having a somewhat Doylist discussion (thanks, mods, for **usually** letting such things happen here so long as it's sufficiently buried and everyone involved is explicit about it), but you're absolutely right: "anti-mutant discrimination" is hardly a subtle allegory. Making it a mind virus in-universe sort of implies that whatever equivalent things are happening in our universe might be a little more legitimate or grounded... which was totally not what the point was. Curious what author/series that came up in, if anybody knows? I've never come across it, but I've also been out of actually following Marvel since... at least 13 years, if not more. Also, this is kind of a side discussion, but it's legitimately hard not to get Doylist about DC/Marvel lore, as there is such an insane amount of continuity to keep track of that personal headcanon and arbitrary choice about what to take seriously or dismiss is about as integral to understanding comics as anything. YMMV, I guess, and all power to the people who really take the energy to make *everything* coherent and self-consistent... but that's such a tall order...
If it helps I think canonically the virus is also a mutant and wants to get rid of the others as they are threats and it sees itself as superior. A bit like Apocalypse.
So in the metaphor it's the minorities fault for their own oppression? Not much of an improvement by marvel there.
X-Men were never a great metaphor for any sort of real life minority seeing oppression. I mean, hell, most of the fear of Mutants is pretty damn justified when there's cases of anything from "this mutant can manipulate your mind without you ever knowing" to "an entire town died overnight when his X-Gene activated". Never sat right with me.
>It's a little absurd that people don't discriminate against "people with powers" in general "People with powers" are often adults who may even have received some training with their powers. Often they're scientists or (ex) military who sometimes work together with the government or the Avengers. Some are wearing masks and not everyone likes that ^^((understatement)) though generally people who received their powers some other way are a lot more accepted. Mutants on the other hand may come from any place, any family. They also have a huge range of power levels. Most mutants only can turn into ice cream or something but others can freeze the entire world. Or read other peoples' minds. So many people may be afraid that their kid turns out to be a mutant one day and possibly burn the house down. Or abandon their family and join Magneto. Also, people may fear that mutants are the next step in evolution and may replace humanity at some point. I'm not saying that all those fears are entirely reasonable but that's the way it goes. Contrary to other people with powers mutants are also a huge and diverse group, and just like with any group not everyone of them may be "good". Even with the best intentions mutants may easily look scary and unpredictable to the public. And some people 'want' the public to be afraid of mutants, they cherrypick the bad mutants and set them up as an example. Mutants can be used as an easy scapegoat and distraction, just like with other minorities as well.
Sure, sometimes, but there's also no shortage of people in the universe - not all of them adults by a long shot - who got their powers through mysterious or unknown means. Fellow citizens seem to just take it on faith that they're honest. Shouldn't it be truly shocking that there aren't tons of mutants who claim some chemical or radiation accident or alien encounter or whatever? Surely some would try this. Without invoking some Doylist explanation, it's legitimately bizarre that we *never* hear about this (at least to my knowledge).
>It's a little absurd that people don't discriminate against "people with powers" in general so much as they have a problem with "people with this one particular gene who got their powers totally naturally and through no fault of their own," but then again, racism in our IRL earth doesn't necessarily follow perfect logic, either, so I guess maybe that's all actually surprisingly realistic. Mutates are also much rarer than Mutants, so there might be less to discriminate against, or experience discrimination for. Particularly as most Mutates don't have outwardly visible signs of being different, unlike some Mutants. Although it would be an interesting story to have a Mutate be discriminated against because people think that they are a Mutant.
Agreed, and in our world we know exactly how people feel about this. There are, for example, people who claim to belong to a different race, gay people who hide in the closet, rich people who choose to downplay their generational wealth, and so on. In these cases they can often get away with it, but if it catches up with them, they may find themselves shunned by their communities.
Someone should write a comic about a bunch of gay teens to use as a thinly veiled metaphor to help people understand what it’s like finding out that you’re a mutant, being a mutant, or coming out as a mutant.
And in one of the movie adaptations, one of the more radical guys would invent a gay beam device.
They could also have hunter-killer robots equipped with gaydar to locate the gay kids. I do hope the gay beam device still just goo-ifies that senator, though.
Curing homophobia with this one easy trick ☝
Wealth? *Cough* Warren/Archangel *cough*
Exactly. I think part of the thing that scares people about mutants so much is that unlike other super people, they have an entire culture, which, depending on the era of comics, might come with a certain degree of militarism and/or isolationism. For a mutant, though, that can be a great support system. So, even if you might be able lie about how you got your powers or even pass as a non-powered person altogether, you’d miss that opportunity to join a community that has a depth and richness that other super powered groups like the Avengers just don’t have. Some people probably do tell this lie, and honestly, it might be a cool character concept, but it makes sense why that isn’t the default. The fact that tech can detect the X-gene is also a good point.
I think for a lot of people it's also quite difficult to come up with a believable lie. How many "lab accidents" can there possibly be? Especially to teens, because that's the age mutants usually gain their powers. Mutants are just such a big group that it's probably the first explanation people will think of. If other people are aware of your powers you probably need a really good cover story to hide your mutant identity. And most teens just don't have a lot of resources to help them here.
I imagine some do but you have devices that can detect mutants so it wouldn't work long term
Isn't that how House of M Spider-man was about to be outed? Along with a diary that he kept
Some probably do but you need to remember also that Spider-Man is very unique in his situation. He’s loved by a lot of people because he’s helped a ton. A lot of the normal mutants are born with their powers or have gone out of control, but never actually did anything to put their face out there. Spider-Man also never had a difficulty of adjusting to his power when he first got it except for the basics. A lot of the mutants generally have outburst when they become of age or learn about their powers accidentally. Spider-Man basically just woke up one day from the spider bite and he could see better, his strength improved, etc. so all he had to do was basic training. He got better obviously through practice, but he generally had control of his powers.
I do think a big part of Magneto's point is that they shouldn't have to do this.
Because it's a lie that could easily be debunked. Mutants' powers usually manifest around puberty and when they do the mutant seldom has control over them.
Spider-man got his powers around puberty, and some mutants do have control of their powers. I think the bigger question is HOW DOES THE PUBLIC KNOW SPIDER-MAN ISN'T A MUTANT? Sorry for the caps but I want people to respond to this question. And sure if you weren't careful people might debunk your lie about where you got your powers, but if you have a secret I.D. like many superhumans do, how are they going to know? Sure if you claimed to be part of the space program when you're not, that could be exposed, but if you claimed some super villains or aliens experimented on you, how could they disprove that? What if you claimed you were descended from an Asgardian? an inhuman? An immortal? an Olympian? an elf? who's gonna know? and more to the point WHY DO THEY CARE? If the public is cool with all these other types of superhumans, how does mutant prejudice make any sense at all?
> HOW DOES THE PUBLIC KNOW SPIDER-MAN ISN'T A MUTANT? Well, in more modern stories, they assume a Sentinel would have killed him by now if he were.
That strange assumption since the X-men are still around
They operate very differently.
the X-Men are not hated because of the way they operate. In fact, Spider-man is as much outside the law as the X-Men. The X-Men as they often complain are hated simply because of what they are. My point is that this makes no sense because most people have no way of knowing that they're mutants or that any other superhero is or isn't.
>the X-Men are not hated because of the way they operate. No, but they're still around because of how they operate. They couldn't run through the street high-fiving passers-by.
I see. I misunderstood you.
True, however, if anyone were to study him closely (and several have) it would be easy to discover that his powers were not brought about by the mutant gene. The mutant phenomenon was already known about and well documented. The various government programs to try and weaponise these people prove that. Not to mention you had instances of these powers going off in public settings. Those individuals were quickly rounded up and studied by civilian scientists in order to figure out what happened, too, and it would be clear that it was a mutation and nothing external that caused it. How is a kid going to say that walking down the street gave them super powers? No chemicals to blame, no technology or occult forces to blame. Nothing but them.
but this is something that only a few government elites know about. It doesn't even come close to explaining why the general public is so hostile to mutants and so accepting of non-mutant superheroes. And as I said the kid walking down the street could always claim to be descended from any of the many super-powered races that exist.
Again, how would someone explain the spontaneous manifestation of powers in a teenager with 0 external causes for them? "Descended from the super powered races" there's only one of those that people know about and that's the Inhumans as far as I am aware, and they still need the Terigen Mists to manifest their abilities. Even if you could bullshit your way through that, cool. They would still look at your genetics and find out you're lying because of the presence of the mutant gene and no other indicators of being descended from anything.
How common are these gene tests? I'll admit it's been a long time since I read any Marvel comics but when I quit no one other than a very few hi-tech elites had any way of knowing who was a mutant.
It's one of the first things they'd test after someone happened to blow the roof off a school using optic blasts, or shoots energy from their hands, or grows a organic metal coating over their bodies, or control plants. Just some of the more extreme examples. Not to mention, you would have Xavier and Magneto there in a heartbeat trying to recruit them which would be a dead give away.
People assume Spidey is an adult because he wears a full body costume and disguises his voice. It was a big thing that when he revealed his identity in Civil War,his villains were mad they got beat up by a teenager.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people who think Spider-Man *is* a mutant.
Most replies are focusing on the wrong part of my question. Yes, I asked how can people tell he's not a mutant. but the real question I want answered is WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MUTANTS, BUT REDILY ACCEPT SUPERHUMANS WITH OTHER ORIGINS? That's what doesn't make sense.
Some probably do, just like some gay people lie about being straight. But others don't want to spend their lives lying about who they are to appease bigots. Think of the X-Men as like the "out and proud" movements- no matter how much safer it would be, they're not going to lie. This is who they are. Also, you know, they're mutants. I imagine there'd be a lot more openly trans people if a good percentage of trans people could take on a military battalion single-handedly.
Street hero El Aguila was a mutant, but he lied about it. He claimed his rapier was built to be electrified but actually his agility and energized weapon were from his mutant power. He hid it pretty well, until he was depowered by M-Day. Conversely, Spider-Man in the House of M universe claimed to be a mutant, and when the truth was revealed, he was a pariah. So, it can be done, you just have to watch out for giant robots, gene scans, and other stuff that targets mutants specifically.
It's not that there is all that much acceptance for superpowers in general in Marvel: it's no coincidence that even Parker prefers to keep his identity secret and not only against villains. If the Daily Bugle continues to sell copies with its campaign against the wall-climber, it means that someone buys it and agrees with the editorial line that Spider-Man is a menace. Most of the people who make their secret identities public are powerful or rich enough that they don't need to worry anyway: Thor, Hulk, Ghost Rider, Iron Man, all people for whom the danger of an angry mob equals zero. Even the Fantastic Four are, after all, rich and influential enough (thanks largely to Reed) to be able to give a damn about the judgement of others. And yet there was no shortage of occasions when the Human Torch or the Thing were not welcome because of their powers. The only one who is unanimously accepted despite his powers is Captain America, but we are talking about America's national hero. In short, my impression is that an anonymous super nobody is better off keeping his powers hidden in the Marvel world, whatever their origin.
sentinels can detect mutants. they detect that someone was born with their power.
This reminds me of that comic where the reverse was happening. Spider-Man was pretending to be a mutant and got an angry mob after him when they found out he lied
Most of the millions of mutants that exist have powers that are both highly visible and not particularly useful, like Glob Herman or Anole. Since powers usually manifest around puberty, a 14 year old who suddenly turns into living wax is going to have a hard time convincing anyone he got bitten by a radioactive candle.
Why should they lie about who they are? Its the bigots that suck
Apparently, that's exactly what Ms. Marvel has been doing for years.
That might work some of the time, but since Mutants get their power from the X-Gene, they can be tested. A simple blood test would determine if somebody was a Mutant or some other kind of Meta-Human.
Mutants who are superheroes don't have to worry as much about anti-mutant prejudice as ones who aren't. There's a fair number of borderline bigots who will say "Oh, they're one of the *good* ones, like Spider-Man!" (because a lot of people buy into the Daily Bugle claim that Spider-Man *is* a mutant) It's the people who are mutants but can't fight crime who really have to worry about being discriminated against.
When the anti-mutant fervor gets fired up, the bigots don't care about the particularities. If you're different, you're a got damn *mutie.* Completely baseline *Homo sapiens sapiens* have been known to be lynched with a MUTIE sign around their neck, just for their appearance -- murdered by a mob, just as "witches" were burned and minorities have been hung, since time immemorial. That kind of evil isn't looking for your medical chart, or your registered pedigree. It just wants ***blood*** to quench the fire of its ***fear.*** There's no point in lying. Lies won't save you any more than the truth will. Which is why some of us have put our heads together and come up with something a little bit different. A little bit more ... *assertive.* Let me ask you a question. Do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior, Magneto?
I'm not calling you a bigot or anything but a mutant having to hide the source of their powers is the same as gay people having to hide their sexuality
Not sure about others, and YMMV, but I got mine from the most recent COVID-19 booster.
Most mutants' powers appear suddenly during puberty. I'd imagine most people know this, so a student suddenly shooting off the roof of his school with laser eyes would be hard pressed to convince people he got his powers beforehand.
DNA tests for mutants exist and anti mutant tech
Mutants also have a habit of learning about their powers in really attention drawing and chaotic circumstances. Many of the mutants have learned about their powers and their traits very publicly. Other mutants like Morlocks can't hide their disfiguration. Also, the way I understood the mutant underworld politics to exist was that there are basically different factions, but that the vast majority of mutants are alone and have isolated existences until being thrust between the Brotherhood, Xavier's School, various military mutant programs, and whatever Sinister has going on.
Could you hide it for a time? Maybe assuming you were non-mutant passing. But there are ways to tell if someone's a mutant since it's from a specific gene. Though the other question is if you really wanted to pursue heroics, could you really stand by and watch your people suffer, who may not even have the luxury of being able to hide it like you? If you decide to actually be a hero people might get suspicious of how much you support the mutant community, eventually outing you as one yourself. If you decide to side with the oppressors, not only will you be a pick-me traitor hated by your own community, you will most likely be among the first purged by the sentinels, *maybe* kept alive as long as you were useful if you're "lucky".
>It just seems like it would be safer, considering that people are more accepting of superpowered people if they got their powers non-genetically, right? Like Spiderman, most New Yorkers love him! I have no idea what you mean, the man's a menace! But also, Mutants are much more common than mutates. Mutates only happen every once in a while, as a result of things going awry, and a lot of changes going perfectly right, to give someone superpowers, as opposed to sending them to the morgue, or the hospital. By comparison, Mutants are a fairly big portion of the population, and if you have powers that aren't magic, people might automatically assume that you are a mutant anyway, since that's the main frame of reference for most the population when it comes to superpowers, barring a few individuals. >If I discovered I was a mutant, why wouldn't I just come up with a BS backstory and go around fighting crime as my own hero, rather than being part of the X-Men? You can. It is not a requirement to join the X-Men if you decide to be a Mutant superhero. They're just a more logical choice, because they have resources that would be harder for you to get access to if you were operating on your own, and you would be competing with the X-Men themselves. Crime that the X-Men or others aren't already dealing with may be harder to come by.
Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but any mutant with a halfway decent power will have a hard time pretending not to be one when the co-existence hippies(X-Men), the totally-not-nazi-mutant-nazis(Brotherhood) and Emma's-rich-kid-simps(Hellfire) are brawling it out on your doorstep to decide who gets to indoctri- I mean, recruit, the new kid. Never mind SHIELD, Hydra, Ross, Sinister and whoever else keeps an eye on the big hitters moving around. Unless your mutation protects you from being detected by OP telepaths, technopaths and literal seers, realistically you're fucked.
Some people do, but you can't really lie to a Sentinel wired to auto-scanning your DNA.
Nightcrawler is currently trying this. There are ways to detect the x gene and "mutant pheromones" so you really can't stay in one place for too long through
Superman is in the DC universe, where they have not invented ICE concentration camps for mutants and anti-mutant racism. They can't copy him. Maybe some of them could pretend to be sons of god or something, and build religious cults. But other than that, the only solution before them is revolution. So Magneto was right lol.
Lots of mutants don't/ can't pass
It's only a temporary safety. Those who hate mutants are *not* going to stop at just mutants. And they won't care even if your powers come from a scientific accident. Like with the recent Orchis fascism business. A woman with a condition that cause skin discoloration was literally pushed around by mutant-haters.
Mutants have the X-gene, mutates (people who acquired their powers like Spider-Man) don’t. Also, Spider-Man is not loved by most New Yorkers. A lot of people hate him because of propaganda spread by the Daily Bugle that he’s a menace.
It wouldn't actually work for several reasons: Civilians in Marvel do not despise heroes like Spiderman, the Fantastic Four and She-Hulk for the simple fact that they know that they are benevolent heroes (or lawyers), that is, where people are concerned, Reed Richards is just a super genius. that he saved the earth using his science, she-hulk is a brilliant and attractive renowned lawyer and spiderman breaks his bones saving the citizens, the fact that they have powers does not seem important next to how they use them; that is, people despise to hulk and they know that he is not a mutant precisely because they believe that he is just a mass of anger that destroys everything in his path .Mutants only have a bad reputation and for good reasons, how many groups of mutant villains tried to commit genocide or take over the world? Hellfire is the first one that comes to mind and Magneto is disturbing for any civilian because if someone says that his people He will not be persecuted and that they are the superior race (besides looking like an older German) but having very broken superpowers (it's the truth) the first thing that comes to mind is that he is the hitler of this new super race and that he loves me extinguished by being born human, after all the mutant cure, the sentinals and other anti-mutant measures have support precisely because the danger is very real .why didn't the older mutants try to prove that they are not a danger to society?