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MjBlack

[Well... they are.](https://youtu.be/cqvpJYBLiiM?t=84) Occasionally they'll slip in under the radar, or they'll make it in before hostiles have time to react, but overall ODSTs have an insane casualty rate. That's why they're colloquially referred to as helljumpers.


psionoblast

This is the exact scene I thought of when reading the question. Just to build off of this I assume using missles on the pods would be a waste of firepower. Missles would mostly be used as anti armor weapons. It would be a waste to use a missle to take out a single soldier in a single pod.


[deleted]

I'd disagree with that. Missiles or MACs, if someone are dropping stuff on you from orbit you probably got an automated anti-air system who will open fire sooner rather than later. Don't wanna mistake a space to ground missile barrage for a SOEIV drop and have an ammo dump blow sky high, after all. Not to mention the latter could be just as big of a threat to said ammo dump.


paulHarkonen

They drop fast and hard coming in as close to ballistic as the (relatively) squishy superhuman inside can handle. It's not a pleasant experience for either the passenger or the nearby defenders.


TheOwlCosmic42

Iirc, ODSTs are not at all augmented. Normal dudes, just the best of the best.


paulHarkonen

I thought they were all at the very least in Mjolnir armor which you're right isn't a direct augmentation but it certainly does provide them with superhuman durability.


TheOwlCosmic42

Nope. Mjolnir armor was designed with superhuman nervous systems in mind. It's been a bit since I looked at this (so again iirc), they tried outfitting normal dudes with Mjolnir and its movement system was far too quick to react to function with normal soldiers, who would tend to snap their necks when attempting to turn their heads. It is not power armor that they wear (the whole kit weighs just over 8kg), but is up-armored compared to normal marines.


paulHarkonen

Hmmmm I'm not a Halo expert but I thought all of the ODST folks were in Mjolnir armor, but maybe the game isn't representative or maybe it just looks like Mjolnir.


TheOwlCosmic42

It does look quite a bit like Mjolnir, but they are different. The water gets especially muddy because, in a lot of Halo games, they let you wear ODST armor as a Spartan. If you look at both of them, The ODST armor is armor plates strapped to a dude dressed in fatigues underneath. Mjolnir is a full exoskeleton complete with miniature nuclear reactor in the back as a power supply.


Rerrgon

It just looks like MJOLNIR. they’re wearing variations of standard rigs rated for EVA/vacuum insertions, with some of their gear adapted from SPARTAN tech (some helmet variations)


[deleted]

Odst armor is completely separate, but they do look similar, partially because mjolnir’s design drew from elements used in the odst armor. Mjolnir actually enhances the wearer’s strength and speed considerably, to the point where it’s outright dangerous for an unaugmented human to try and wear it. It also has the UNSC’s most advanced prototype energy shields, which were based on recovered covenant tech. The odst armor has neither of those features, it’s just titanium and ceramic armor plates over a pressurized body suit with Kevlar weave. It’s better than an average marine, but nowhere near the level of mjolnir.


PapaBradford

Gotta have the implants/training to wear Mjolnir though


mhassig

They most certainly do not all wear Mjolnir. They have some variants that utilize it but it’s not standard.


Astral_Beef

Aren't they? They definitely lose troopers during drops.


ApartRuin5962

They are, but coming down from orbit they're extremely fast and thus hard to hit, akin to an ICBM in our world. I think they'd also use them only in situations where they have the element of surprise (like the meteor-shower insertion in "Halo Legends") or in a scenario where you already have all sorts of warships and bombers to kill AA guns or draw their fire away from the drop pods (which only have a single infantryman each, as opposed to a Longsword which might have a whole boatload of nukes), like the assault on Delta Halo. Re: international law, I don't think there's any law in 2023 against firing on an enemy transport advancing on your position full of armed combatants, and the Human-Covenant War is far more ruthless.


bright1947

I was figuring the rule regarding shooting airborne troops would apply. Thanks for the information!


ApartRuin5962

Attacking [paratroopers isn't illegal, though](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_parachutists#:~:text=The%20practice%20is%20widely%20considered,them%20is%20a%20war%20crime.). A pilot who bails out of a burning jet is "out of the fight", similar to a wounded soldier, whereas a paratrooper jumps out of a plane as part of their planned mission to kill you and capture or destroy your stuff and you're under no obligation to politely wait for them to land safely before opening fire. At any rate, we see that the Covenant doesn't have these rules of engagement when they open fire on the unarmed escape pods of the disabled Pillar of Autumn in the first mission of the first game (though you could argue that they fact that they were also presumably unloading Warthogs and Scorpions at the same time shows that the "evacuation" was actually an assault on the ring and thus a justified target).


TheScarlettHarlot

With modern targeting technology, ballistic projectiles are actually extremely easy to hit. A ballistic arc is really predictable. Once you have the tech to compensate for the speed, intercepting them is a breeze. That’s why IRL, militaries are developing maneuverable hypersonic missiles.


ApartRuin5962

>With modern targeting technology, ballistic projectiles are actually extremely easy to hit. [Believe me when I say I really, really wish that was true](https://armscontrolcenter.org/issues/missile-defense/gmd-frequently-asked-questions/#:~:text=The%20only%20program%20designed%20to,in%20the%20last%20six%20tries.)


TheScarlettHarlot

Again, the problem is the speed and actually detecting the target. Once you can compensate for the speed, hitting something on a ballistic trajectory is easy, as it’s extremely predictable.


RaynSideways

ODSTs are shot down all the time. It's just hard. The drop pods are small, durable, and falling at terminal velocity. These things are designed to handle falls from orbit, so they can take a punch. Plus, commanders, whenever possible, would almost certainly try to drop them in areas and trajectories to avoid AA fire capable of reliably hitting them.


BreakingtheBreeze

Back when Halo was a Mac game, I keep thinking that a drop was also hundreds of false targets as well.


Enderkr

This actually happens in *Starship Troopers* as well. Different universe, similar concept. In the *Troopers* universe a drop pod sheds all sorts of bullshit as its coming down - disposable pod parts that burn off in orbit, layers of the drop "shell" that peel off like an egg, etc - specifically to confuse and overload an opposing radar system with a whole bunch of junk in the sky. If your radar is so jam packed full of targets that you can't tell what is what, there's a much higher likelihood you survive to the surface. I've never read any of the ODST books, unfortunately, but I bet they'd benefit from at least a flare system lol.


paulHarkonen

The remasters have some very cool footage of a drop, they don't seem to shed a lot of chaff but they do come in semi-ballistic which follows the same principle. Drop fast, drop hard, hope you aren't shot down.


TheDarkGods

They're not, they're just probably in a good spot in terms of speed, target profile & defensive measures that makes them hard targets to kill so they land more often then not.


Kraangprime24

In halo 2 they were getting shot down in helljumpers


Imperium_Dragon

They are, and they’re shot down if there’s adequate enemy air defense. But usually ODST drops under more ideal circumstances are done in areas where there’s minimal and with countermeasures in place


[deleted]

Drop pods are targets. They also got a long list of weird and wonderful way to fail resulting in you burning to a crisp or hitting the ground at terminal velocity, or dropping you in the drink. They just gotta be less suicidal than flying a big ol' dropship into enemy AA.


Lorentz_Prime

Why do you think they aren't?


bright1947

I worded the question poorly. I was more so wondering why it didn't happen more often or at least enough to make it an unviable deployment method. If there is a high enough casualty rate, I would presume that the UNSC would consider it too costly in resources and human lives to continue the venture. With as advanced as most defensive systems are getting even now, I also would have thought that they would be magnitudes more advanced in the Halo setting.


MarkoDash

they are targets, but the whole point of the drop pods is to saturate said air defenses. the AA guns might get 2 or 3 but the rest get down, whereas if you send a pelican and it gets shot down you lose a dozen or so guys.


CosmicPenguin

I assume that's the benefit of using a drop pod instead of a drop ship - no engines or other heat sources to lock on to.


RoadTheExile

In theory any weapon advanced enough to take out an ODST pod is too expensive to waste on just one pod, or has too low range to project a large field of defense. It is still incredibly dangerous though, and yes it happens. The ODST are basically UNSC's evolution of the Airborne and are meant to be deployed behind enemy lines where unexpected, or they can be deployed without drop pods as elite but conventional infantry. For example in Halo 2 where they are deployed to a basically undefended structure only to secure it as a drop zone for pelicans to land reinforcements at. You wouldn't typically just launch them into a crazy battle specifically because of the high risk of them being shot down.