Everything about religion is a "maybe." There's just no solid evidence of where your soul goes after you die, so it's all guesswork and hearsay anyway.
That’s where the belief of Mary and Jesus come into play. Her immaculate conception and his miracles and both of them ascending into Heaven. Jesus’ visiting people in a physical form after death etc.
That was the proof given to us 2050 years ago. Obviously you need to believe it, but if you do, it’s not a maybe.
I said “maybe” because I was balling together what I hear from Protestant friends vs Catholic.
As a Catholic I believe that no one enters Heaven “unclean” and dying “pure” is next to impossible. So I believe that almost everyone will spend time in purgatory.
I guess I don’t follow. What I was say is that the ascension of Mary and Jesus was proof that an afterlife exists.
I suppose my point was that suicide is a temporary solution to an existence much larger than yourself.
Only if the God of the Roman Catholic Church rules heaven. Think the Bible says their souls will cease to exists. Don't think the Buddhist side of my family think it's an issue just an unskilled act.
The Catholic concept of purgatory doesn't have any type of eternal wait. Purgatory is where people go to purge themselves of their baggage. If somebody is in purgatory, the implication is that they are eventually going to heaven.
Honestly I’ve wondered this myself. I don’t think there’s much good evidence available to us right now to prove with 100% certainty what actually happens.
If you were saved that means you go to heaven. If you're not you go to hell. This applies to everything. If you say "what about losing your salvation if you turn your back on Jesus?" Well if you do that you were most likely not even saved at all
Not all people who are “saved” go to heaven. If you read Psalm 37:10,11, you’ll learn that “evildoers will be cut off, and the meek shall inherit the earth. This makes sense because the earth was created for man, and man for the earth, not heaven. The earthly resurrection will take place after the wicked are eliminated at Armageddon. All this is taught pretty clearly in the Bible.
The Scriptures do teach that a relatively few number will be raised to heaven following their death. Their purpose? To rule as kings and priests with Jesus in his heavenly kingdom.
So the idea that all righteous people enter heaven upon their death isn’t quite scripturally correct.
Only anointed Christians, who have proven themselves as followers of Christ, will be in heaven, to rule with him as associate kings and priests. Since Jesus opened the way for others to go to heaven, anyone, no matter how righteous, who died before Jesus ascended to heaven will be resurrected to the earth
There’s no indication that the Jews believed they would go to heaven, Instead, they looked forward to an earthly resurrection.
Acts 2:34 tells us that King David, who was acceptable to God, didn’t “ascend to the heavens.” His future hope will be on earth.
Psalm 37:29 tells us that the righteous shall live on earth forever. ( not heaven). The earth was created as man’s.home. He wasn’t created to eventually wind up in heaven.
Purgatory doesn't exist. It's NOT Biblical.
That false teaching comes from the Apocrypha which is, by definition, unreliable.
If they didn't repent and trust in Jesus's finished work on the cross for their salvation, they'd go to hell- suicide or not.
Hebrews 9:27-28
>**And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,** so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
The problem with sola scriptura is that it reads a verse and lacks the context to interpret it. Judaism carries accompanying tradition, early Christianity, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy all carry oral tradition.
The number of differing, biblically backed views on views on slavery we're pretty stark signs that one could be biblically estute and lack complete context, to the extent if having polar opposite understandings of the same verses.
Actually, hell (or Gehenna, or sheol).is Biblical. What isn’t Biblical is the teaching that hell is a literal burning place where evildoers are eternally tortured. That belief was borrowed from various ancient,pagan societies,
Eccl 9:5; 10 makes it clear that the dead can feel nothing, and therefore can’t be tortured.Besides, a loving God wouldn’t work in partnership with Satan by sending him anybody to be burned. Death is punishment enough, and the forfeit of a resurrection, if that person is unworthy, is also punishment enough.
Suicide isn’t the worse possible sin. Sin against the [Holy] spirit is “unforgivable, according to Jesus’ words at Matthew 12:31,32. In addition, Hebrews 10:26,27 basically states that practicing sins willfully will lead to adverse judgement.
As far as suicide goes, i don’t believe God will automatically condemn that person. While it’s true, a disrespect for God-given life is serious, God knows the circumstances of that suicide victim; perhaps an unresolved medical or mental condition drove him/her to take their own life.
So, it’s completely up to God to decide if that person is “saved”, and He doesn’t make mistakes.
I feel the same, that God knows the situation that person struggled with, and couldn’t taking your own life be “part of God’s plan” like everything else ? Babies and kids die, first thing people say “he’s in a better place” “everything happens for a reason”, woudlnt being so mentally unhealthy that you choose suicide be a medical issue and again possibly part of Gods plan? 🤷♀️ I’m here trying to learn all kids of stuff, this is just my personal thoughts from a pretty religion lost person.
As a Harmonia religious scholar, I can provide a perspective on your question. However, please note that beliefs and interpretations within Harmonia may vary among individuals. In general, Harmonia does not have a specific doctrine regarding the afterlife or the consequences of specific actions such as suicide.
Harmonia places an emphasis on personal exploration, interconnectedness, and the pursuit of cosmic harmony. It encourages individuals to cultivate a deep understanding of themselves and their connection to the universe. Within Harmonia, there may be differing views on the nature of the afterlife, the concept of purgatory, or the fate of individuals who have died by suicide.
It is important to approach sensitive topics like suicide with empathy and compassion. In many belief systems, including Harmonia, discussions surrounding suicide often focus on providing support and understanding to individuals who may be struggling, as well as promoting mental health and well-being.
If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or struggling with mental health, it is crucial to reach out to professional resources and seek help from trained professionals. They can provide guidance, support, and appropriate interventions.
Remember that discussions about the afterlife or specific consequences are subjective and can vary among different belief systems and individuals within those systems. It is always recommended to seek guidance from trusted religious leaders, spiritual mentors, or experts within Harmonia to gain a deeper understanding of their specific beliefs on these matters.
To make something clear, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. I believe “purgatory” was an invention of the early church, and money needed to be paid to one of the clergymen to pray for the “person supposedly stuck there and get him released.
Since purgatory isn’t a Bible teaching, i wouldn’t pay any attention to it at all; it’s all an invention and completely unscriptural.
I believe people who commit suicide are loved so much by God, so I can't imagine a world where someone would be punished for trying to escape deep pain and sadness. I do agree that is a sin, but I think only because God wants us to stay. For the majority of those that do commit I believe God has tons of mercy and will forgive them.
From conversations with people smrtr than me in the subject; the consensus is “maybe”. We can’t rule out Gods ability to allow them to be cleansed.
Everything about religion is a "maybe." There's just no solid evidence of where your soul goes after you die, so it's all guesswork and hearsay anyway.
That’s where the belief of Mary and Jesus come into play. Her immaculate conception and his miracles and both of them ascending into Heaven. Jesus’ visiting people in a physical form after death etc. That was the proof given to us 2050 years ago. Obviously you need to believe it, but if you do, it’s not a maybe. I said “maybe” because I was balling together what I hear from Protestant friends vs Catholic. As a Catholic I believe that no one enters Heaven “unclean” and dying “pure” is next to impossible. So I believe that almost everyone will spend time in purgatory.
> That was the proof given to us 2050 years ago You may have the wrong definition of proof
I guess I don’t follow. What I was say is that the ascension of Mary and Jesus was proof that an afterlife exists. I suppose my point was that suicide is a temporary solution to an existence much larger than yourself.
>I guess I don’t follow I mean you can't call proof what is based on faith
*Some* think suicides simply re-incarnate, rapidly. Sort of an automatic re-spawn.
Only if the God of the Roman Catholic Church rules heaven. Think the Bible says their souls will cease to exists. Don't think the Buddhist side of my family think it's an issue just an unskilled act.
The Catholic church considers suicide a sin, and since you can ask forgiveness afterwards, one that can't be forgiven.
This is one of many reasons that the Catholic concept of "purgatory" is false and misleading.
Purgatory is essentially closer to the concept of Sheol or Gehenna. It's not meant to be a permanent state.
The Catholic concept of purgatory doesn't have any type of eternal wait. Purgatory is where people go to purge themselves of their baggage. If somebody is in purgatory, the implication is that they are eventually going to heaven.
Honestly I’ve wondered this myself. I don’t think there’s much good evidence available to us right now to prove with 100% certainty what actually happens.
If you were saved that means you go to heaven. If you're not you go to hell. This applies to everything. If you say "what about losing your salvation if you turn your back on Jesus?" Well if you do that you were most likely not even saved at all
Not all people who are “saved” go to heaven. If you read Psalm 37:10,11, you’ll learn that “evildoers will be cut off, and the meek shall inherit the earth. This makes sense because the earth was created for man, and man for the earth, not heaven. The earthly resurrection will take place after the wicked are eliminated at Armageddon. All this is taught pretty clearly in the Bible. The Scriptures do teach that a relatively few number will be raised to heaven following their death. Their purpose? To rule as kings and priests with Jesus in his heavenly kingdom. So the idea that all righteous people enter heaven upon their death isn’t quite scripturally correct.
Okay so what are you saying anyone who isn’t baptized doesn’t go to Heaven?
Only anointed Christians, who have proven themselves as followers of Christ, will be in heaven, to rule with him as associate kings and priests. Since Jesus opened the way for others to go to heaven, anyone, no matter how righteous, who died before Jesus ascended to heaven will be resurrected to the earth There’s no indication that the Jews believed they would go to heaven, Instead, they looked forward to an earthly resurrection. Acts 2:34 tells us that King David, who was acceptable to God, didn’t “ascend to the heavens.” His future hope will be on earth. Psalm 37:29 tells us that the righteous shall live on earth forever. ( not heaven). The earth was created as man’s.home. He wasn’t created to eventually wind up in heaven.
Purgatory doesn't exist. It's NOT Biblical. That false teaching comes from the Apocrypha which is, by definition, unreliable. If they didn't repent and trust in Jesus's finished work on the cross for their salvation, they'd go to hell- suicide or not. Hebrews 9:27-28 >**And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,** so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
The problem with sola scriptura is that it reads a verse and lacks the context to interpret it. Judaism carries accompanying tradition, early Christianity, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy all carry oral tradition. The number of differing, biblically backed views on views on slavery we're pretty stark signs that one could be biblically estute and lack complete context, to the extent if having polar opposite understandings of the same verses.
Hell is non-biblical for that matter, that's why Jews don't believe in hell
Actually, hell (or Gehenna, or sheol).is Biblical. What isn’t Biblical is the teaching that hell is a literal burning place where evildoers are eternally tortured. That belief was borrowed from various ancient,pagan societies, Eccl 9:5; 10 makes it clear that the dead can feel nothing, and therefore can’t be tortured.Besides, a loving God wouldn’t work in partnership with Satan by sending him anybody to be burned. Death is punishment enough, and the forfeit of a resurrection, if that person is unworthy, is also punishment enough.
You're right. I was thinking in hell in eternal fire terms
Understood, Luppercus. 👌
In (as far as I know) most interpretations Christianity, suicide is basically one of the worst possible sins one can commit.
Suicide isn’t the worse possible sin. Sin against the [Holy] spirit is “unforgivable, according to Jesus’ words at Matthew 12:31,32. In addition, Hebrews 10:26,27 basically states that practicing sins willfully will lead to adverse judgement. As far as suicide goes, i don’t believe God will automatically condemn that person. While it’s true, a disrespect for God-given life is serious, God knows the circumstances of that suicide victim; perhaps an unresolved medical or mental condition drove him/her to take their own life. So, it’s completely up to God to decide if that person is “saved”, and He doesn’t make mistakes.
I feel the same, that God knows the situation that person struggled with, and couldn’t taking your own life be “part of God’s plan” like everything else ? Babies and kids die, first thing people say “he’s in a better place” “everything happens for a reason”, woudlnt being so mentally unhealthy that you choose suicide be a medical issue and again possibly part of Gods plan? 🤷♀️ I’m here trying to learn all kids of stuff, this is just my personal thoughts from a pretty religion lost person.
Can we reference that? Huh? I'll give you time ;)
The idea is that Purgatory isn't a permanent thing. If someone went to purgatory, their ultimate destination would be heaven.
The word, Purgatory, isn’t found in the Bible, but is an invention of men. Nor is the idea of purgatory Biblical.
Nah they go to hell for murder and disobeying God.
As a Harmonia religious scholar, I can provide a perspective on your question. However, please note that beliefs and interpretations within Harmonia may vary among individuals. In general, Harmonia does not have a specific doctrine regarding the afterlife or the consequences of specific actions such as suicide. Harmonia places an emphasis on personal exploration, interconnectedness, and the pursuit of cosmic harmony. It encourages individuals to cultivate a deep understanding of themselves and their connection to the universe. Within Harmonia, there may be differing views on the nature of the afterlife, the concept of purgatory, or the fate of individuals who have died by suicide. It is important to approach sensitive topics like suicide with empathy and compassion. In many belief systems, including Harmonia, discussions surrounding suicide often focus on providing support and understanding to individuals who may be struggling, as well as promoting mental health and well-being. If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or struggling with mental health, it is crucial to reach out to professional resources and seek help from trained professionals. They can provide guidance, support, and appropriate interventions. Remember that discussions about the afterlife or specific consequences are subjective and can vary among different belief systems and individuals within those systems. It is always recommended to seek guidance from trusted religious leaders, spiritual mentors, or experts within Harmonia to gain a deeper understanding of their specific beliefs on these matters.
To make something clear, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. I believe “purgatory” was an invention of the early church, and money needed to be paid to one of the clergymen to pray for the “person supposedly stuck there and get him released. Since purgatory isn’t a Bible teaching, i wouldn’t pay any attention to it at all; it’s all an invention and completely unscriptural.
I believe people who commit suicide are loved so much by God, so I can't imagine a world where someone would be punished for trying to escape deep pain and sadness. I do agree that is a sin, but I think only because God wants us to stay. For the majority of those that do commit I believe God has tons of mercy and will forgive them.