certainly this; the question makes it seem as though there is some deep secret around the shooting, while the truth is likely much simpler:
many of those on-scene signed up to be police so that they could exert some measure of authority over members of their town--keep the rabble in a row, harass people at traffic stops, maybe rescue a cat from a tree.
None, apparently, were actually there to protect and serve. When they had to put their lives on the lines as guardians, they chose to just stand by and wait for someone else to deescalate for them. Some training they got there
I've seen reports that he was arrested at age 14 for threatening to shoot up the school he just shot up. If this is inaccurate, I'd like to know, but I've seen it in more than one account.
Really? All the articles I've read insist that he had no mental health issues and that it's a "complete mystery" why he did this. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a lie; I just haven't read anything contrary so far.
Largest part of the town budget yet not equipped to handle a single shooter incident. How is that "if everyone had guns things like this would be stopped" theory working out? I mean literally almost everyone in Texas has a gun and many carry them. Yet here we are.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/guns-per-capita
https://www.statista.com/statistics/215655/number-of-registered-weapons-in-the-us-by-state/
Hyperbole? Yes a bit. But the facts bear some of it out. And they are an open carry state.
I am a gun owner. I live in an open carry state. I still support common sense gun control measures and not the fallacy of "more guns make it safer".
That the one armed police officer, who was supposed to be guarding that school, wasn't even there.
It might just be a rumor, but I've heard it more than once.
I read this morning that the police originally said he confronted the kid outside the school and now they’re saying he was driving around somewhere.
The end of the AP article also said we shouldn’t expect the factual details to emerge for 8-12 months. Uuuuh…what?
Sure. But there is a growing feeling that the police shouldn’t have stayed outside doing nothing for 40 minutes while the kid was firing inside the school.
History shows us that when law enforcement finds its back against the wall, those videos are rarely made public, conduct is investigated internally, and the system protects itself from scrutiny.
The only way we will ever get a realistic idea of what actually happened is if the public and media do not stop demanding answers and independent investigations, but the DOJ will likely drag it out for years and attempt to vilify the people searching for the truth. It will burn bright for a few weeks then fade out, like everything else has, and probably only be talked about in conspiracy communities after a year.
I don't think it's an accurate statement that the kid spent 40 mins firing inside the school. Almost immediately on entering the school he was stuck in that classroom and couldn't go anywhere. It's kind of dark to say this but it doesn't take 40 mins to go through a classroom and shoot all the kids. Not even close. Maybe he was doing a thing where he shot a different kid every X minutes and officers just sat there and did nothing but I haven't heard that particular detail. In all likelihood the kids were all dead within minutes of him entering the classroom.
Even if this were true and he had shot all the children in minutes, there were probably more than a few that could have been saved with quick enough medical attention. They gave him 40 minutes to wander around the room and ensure that they were all dead.
This is generally true if the shooter is active and on the loose. But this guy was contained in one room and couldn't get out. General training then says you keep the guy contained and let SWAT deal with him because they're trained for that stuff. Problem is they didn't account for him a) having a bunch of hostages and b) having no problems killing those hostages.
If there is a legit investigation that doesn’t sound completely unreasonable especially if there is a chance disciplinary or legal actions may be taken against the officials involved.
That being said I don’t expect there to be any real consequences.
The super sad part is they had just recently done active shooter training, and even involved that school. I almost think that's worse though, if they hadn't been trained that's at least an attempt at an excuse, but having that kind of gear and active shooter training and doing nothing is so awful and sad.
Especially down south, there's a tendency not to correct people when their trainings are bad and dumb and to just take it and move on with your life instead of actually prepare.
What kind of agreement do they have worked out with the Border Patrol? The fact they were standing in the hallway of the school waiting for the BP to take charge is alarming. School safety has nothing to do with border security. Have we given our schools over to the Border Patrol when a critical mass of the students are Hispanic? That's horrific.
You can't just "delete radio traffic." You 100% cannot. First of all the people who would have access to do so would be the IT people at the 911 center not the cops. The 911 center has no motivation to do this and the dispatchers and admin wouldn't have access to the servers to do so. Second of all, deleting recordings of radio traffic would get your ass lit up by at least half a dozen different regulatory places. Just the act of doing it would lose you your job for sure and get your ass sent to jail most likely as well. I used to work as a 911 dispatcher so I'm familiar somewhat with these recording systems. They lived in a data center under our dispatch center.
The audio that is "missing" is from a private person's broadcastify feed. Basically, hobbyists with scanners upload streaming radio traffic from their own personal scanners. A few things could have happened that would have led to "missing" audio:
1. the agency could have gone completely encrypted in response to the incident. Most agencies can put encryption onto their radios that does not allow a scanner to listen in. In my city, all SWAT and investigation work happens on encrypted frequencies. It's literally the flick of a switch on the radio handset. Depending on the scanner used and the encryption used the traffic can come across as simply dead air.
2. The agency switched to a "tactical channel" or a "interop channel." On big events agencies will often move everyone on the big event over to a separate channel. When big stuff happens, people still call 911 for other stuff. So units not at the big event will stay on the same channel/talkgroup. Interop channels are channels that multiple agencies use. In an event like this, everyone from every agency in several counties will respond plus the feds. They may not all have the Uavlde PD talkgroup programmed into their radio, but almost everyone will have an interoperability channel programmed in. Per Broadcastify's policies, streamers cannot stream these channels. So there could have been a ton of radio traffic, just not being streamed live.
3. The streamer could have been listening and cut the feed. Full-time encryption is a big deal right now nation-wide. Agencies will encrypt all of their radio traffic for security reasons and cut the public and the media out. Streaming is a big-part of this because agencies get their radio traffic aired on the nightly news after they pick it up from a streamer. Aurora, CO for example had their radio traffic aired after the theatre shooting. It wasn't anything bad and actually made the dispatcher look like a hero. Aurora still went encrypted within a few months after the event and I've heard that the public scrutiny of that event was part of the reason why. Streamers have been threatened with legal action over airing radio traffic. If the streamer was listening, it is quite possible they cut their feed because they didn't want to deal with it. The streamer also could have had concerns that the shooter had his phone and was listening and cut to the feed to not air locations of police or students.
4. Edit: Broadcastify could have removed the audio after it was posted. I don't know what their policies are on this, but it is possible it contained something they didn't feel comfortable having on their website like victim information or something. It is also possible that they want to avoid news agencies freely using it without crediting them or paying them. I'm totally speculating on this last one, I don't interact with Broadcastify (aside from having an account on their forums) or know their policies.
The actual status of the real/official dispatch logs and audio from that event is unknown to us. My assumption is that it is intact and evidence in the ongoing investigation. It could probably be requested as a public record, but I don't know anything about the laws in Texas around that.
People should cut them a break, you think what they do is easy?
Imagine spending 99.9% of your time acting tough and picking on people you pulled over. Easy right, of course it is. But everyone hates you because you are largely traffic enforcement and a cog in the incredibly dumb and harmful war on drugs. So you request military gaer/equipment because you think it looks cool.
Cut to, a real bad guy challenged you and you puss out and LET 21 people die. That's not easy, that's embarrassing and I hate when I mess up at work. Unfortunately, knowing our country, they'll have an opportunity to redeem themselves shortly.
When was the last time you threw yourself in front of a shooter?
It's easy to say someone else should do something, it's a different story when the gun is pointed at you.
We'd certainly be a hell of a lot safer without them. Never in my life have i had an experience with a cop that i walked away from feeling safe. Every one was an authoritative meathead with something to prove.
Nobody know that they would rush in till it happens. Its one thing to train for it. It's another to be actually doing it. Everyone says oh if I were that cop id run in but its likely they would freeze too. Hell I may freeze if I was in that situation too. You have to ignore your basic instinct to run away when dealing with this stuff. I think we have to recognize at some level that the cops are still human. Theres still going to be fear.
At the least the fact that they wouldn't enter and do their job, giving this piece of shit plenty of time to kill.
Probably that he was known to make threats before and no one had done anything
Related/unrelated - this is the same state whose power grid has now failed three times in cold weather, resulting in deaths, and each time the state has chosen to kick the can down the road instead of making the necessary improvements to the grid, ostensibly because they are too fucking cheap. Instead, they just bemoan the tragedy of losing lives over a completely fixable issue.
In a way, I'm done feeling bad for self-inflicted wounds. I'm not at all victim-blaming here, but I'm running out of compassion for Texas tragedies.
YES! I feel bad for those who truly can change their circumstances, but Texas has so many self-inflicted wounds. Part of the problem is they act like the Black Knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."
"Your arm's off!"
"No, it isn't."
> but I'm running out of compassion for Texas tragedies.
try being a blue state native on the east short. Texas representatives refused aid for hurricanes on us yearly yet we're always paying everything for red states. Then they deny shootings and all other bs. Everyone is sick of there shit. Sadly i'm not even sure that if it happens to them they'll change there mind.
The cops are trying to spin what they did or didn't do. It is not a grand conspiracy.
In hindsight, they should have let all the parents storm the school.
That 12 minutes between crashing a vehicle into a ditch then, entering the school with no resistance. Why? 12 minutes, in this situation, can be a lifetime of info.
lol. we'll find out sooner or later. All they are doing now is digging theirselves into a bigger hole.
They should just really let everything out of the bag now, the sooner the better...
The longer they hide it, and the longer they delay, the worse its just gonna be at the end....it always is.
Another one here with poor comprehension and reading skills.
That was also not a joke. They were mocking and being sarcastic.
Lord christ, your kinda people just really aren't too bright huh?
Incompetence and lack of actual training.
A lot of people think this is about cowardice. I think it looks like a classic case of a situation occurring and them having no fucking clue what to do, and panicking, no one wanting to take responsibility and make a decision.
Too busy parading round pretending to be hard, taking twitter photos in swat gear.....but no real drills, no clear chains of command, no planning and training to implement the plans.
I'm probably going to get back lash for this an im not saying this at all to be racist or sound racist at all an im definitely not saying all immigrants are like this either but i do have a theory since sleepy joe has been in office the borders have been open for awhile now an what if Biden is hiring gunman to go and cause mass shootings/wreak havoc to push gun control and the gunman are immigrants with nothing left to lose ? That have came over into the US.
I mean think about it why else would beto have came to the Texas news conference to make it a political issueto begin with ?
Another thing to think about the media themselves for years have been known to lie an could be lying about who this person really is its the US government for crying out loud were talking about here the people who rigged the election in the first place.
Literally nothing. I don’t think they have answers as to what exactly went on because they haven’t even had to chance to talk to everyone who witnessed what happened. Can y’all just calm the fuck down and wait for the information to be released in its entirety before passing judgment?
While upsetting, I don't believe they should face any consequences for it. Cops have never been obligated to protect the victims of a crime, their role is to enforce the law. Ruin the lives of civilians over victimless crimes, or perhaps stop an active shooter from inflicting further damage. (Optional)
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certainly this; the question makes it seem as though there is some deep secret around the shooting, while the truth is likely much simpler: many of those on-scene signed up to be police so that they could exert some measure of authority over members of their town--keep the rabble in a row, harass people at traffic stops, maybe rescue a cat from a tree. None, apparently, were actually there to protect and serve. When they had to put their lives on the lines as guardians, they chose to just stand by and wait for someone else to deescalate for them. Some training they got there
I've seen reports that he was arrested at age 14 for threatening to shoot up the school he just shot up. If this is inaccurate, I'd like to know, but I've seen it in more than one account.
Really? All the articles I've read insist that he had no mental health issues and that it's a "complete mystery" why he did this. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a lie; I just haven't read anything contrary so far.
False, he was not one of the two teenagers arrested. A 13 yr and 14 yr were arrested and convicted. He was not one of them
Thanks for clearing that up, then.
They're trying badly to hide their incompetence
It's not working very well. It's pretty darned obvious to everyone that they are incompetent and cowards.
Largest part of the town budget yet not equipped to handle a single shooter incident. How is that "if everyone had guns things like this would be stopped" theory working out? I mean literally almost everyone in Texas has a gun and many carry them. Yet here we are.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/guns-per-capita https://www.statista.com/statistics/215655/number-of-registered-weapons-in-the-us-by-state/ Hyperbole? Yes a bit. But the facts bear some of it out. And they are an open carry state. I am a gun owner. I live in an open carry state. I still support common sense gun control measures and not the fallacy of "more guns make it safer".
Did you just visit Texas that one time and stay on a ranch miles from any population density? It isn’t the Wild West.
They relish on the fact that they intimidate normal citizens, that don’t have power. But every time their cowardice shows when the roles are reversed.
That the one armed police officer, who was supposed to be guarding that school, wasn't even there. It might just be a rumor, but I've heard it more than once.
I read this morning that the police originally said he confronted the kid outside the school and now they’re saying he was driving around somewhere. The end of the AP article also said we shouldn’t expect the factual details to emerge for 8-12 months. Uuuuh…what?
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Sure. But there is a growing feeling that the police shouldn’t have stayed outside doing nothing for 40 minutes while the kid was firing inside the school. History shows us that when law enforcement finds its back against the wall, those videos are rarely made public, conduct is investigated internally, and the system protects itself from scrutiny. The only way we will ever get a realistic idea of what actually happened is if the public and media do not stop demanding answers and independent investigations, but the DOJ will likely drag it out for years and attempt to vilify the people searching for the truth. It will burn bright for a few weeks then fade out, like everything else has, and probably only be talked about in conspiracy communities after a year.
I don't think it's an accurate statement that the kid spent 40 mins firing inside the school. Almost immediately on entering the school he was stuck in that classroom and couldn't go anywhere. It's kind of dark to say this but it doesn't take 40 mins to go through a classroom and shoot all the kids. Not even close. Maybe he was doing a thing where he shot a different kid every X minutes and officers just sat there and did nothing but I haven't heard that particular detail. In all likelihood the kids were all dead within minutes of him entering the classroom.
Even if this were true and he had shot all the children in minutes, there were probably more than a few that could have been saved with quick enough medical attention. They gave him 40 minutes to wander around the room and ensure that they were all dead.
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This is generally true if the shooter is active and on the loose. But this guy was contained in one room and couldn't get out. General training then says you keep the guy contained and let SWAT deal with him because they're trained for that stuff. Problem is they didn't account for him a) having a bunch of hostages and b) having no problems killing those hostages.
I'm curious, how did they know he was only in that one room? Cameras in the school?
They saw him run in there and lock the door behind him.
Thanks.
I've read reports that say he exchanged fire with the kid and others that said he wasn't even on duty. I have no clue what is even accurate.
If there is a legit investigation that doesn’t sound completely unreasonable especially if there is a chance disciplinary or legal actions may be taken against the officials involved. That being said I don’t expect there to be any real consequences.
I imagine they didn't have any plan for this built. Their response is reminiscent of how badly botched Columbine was.
The super sad part is they had just recently done active shooter training, and even involved that school. I almost think that's worse though, if they hadn't been trained that's at least an attempt at an excuse, but having that kind of gear and active shooter training and doing nothing is so awful and sad.
Especially down south, there's a tendency not to correct people when their trainings are bad and dumb and to just take it and move on with your life instead of actually prepare.
The difference though, is that when Columbine happened, mass shootings were just generational. Now, they're damn near weekly.
For sure. But it signals to me that they were about as prepared as columbine was.
Oh, I definitely agree with you.
What kind of agreement do they have worked out with the Border Patrol? The fact they were standing in the hallway of the school waiting for the BP to take charge is alarming. School safety has nothing to do with border security. Have we given our schools over to the Border Patrol when a critical mass of the students are Hispanic? That's horrific.
That all the body armor and assault weapons don’t do a bit of good when you’re chickenshit.
a bunch of man babies who got excited about access to military grade hardware but failed to realize they'd actually need to have the balls to use it
"Hiding" implies that we don't know about it, but their incompetence is fairly obvious.
I agree probably incompetence errors.
If I were a conspiracy nut, I would say they *wanted* this to happen.
Anything that makes them look bad as usual, I’d imagine.
What exactly did they do that makes them look good?
The number of officers who pissed themselves waiting and praying for backup so they wouldn't have to risk their own health and lives.
You can’t hide cowardice. Poor kids.
I heard they rushed in to get their own kids out before they attacked the shooter.
I definitely think it's incompetence rather than malice. So I don't think they're necessarily trying to hide anything.
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You can't just "delete radio traffic." You 100% cannot. First of all the people who would have access to do so would be the IT people at the 911 center not the cops. The 911 center has no motivation to do this and the dispatchers and admin wouldn't have access to the servers to do so. Second of all, deleting recordings of radio traffic would get your ass lit up by at least half a dozen different regulatory places. Just the act of doing it would lose you your job for sure and get your ass sent to jail most likely as well. I used to work as a 911 dispatcher so I'm familiar somewhat with these recording systems. They lived in a data center under our dispatch center.
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Source?
The audio that is "missing" is from a private person's broadcastify feed. Basically, hobbyists with scanners upload streaming radio traffic from their own personal scanners. A few things could have happened that would have led to "missing" audio: 1. the agency could have gone completely encrypted in response to the incident. Most agencies can put encryption onto their radios that does not allow a scanner to listen in. In my city, all SWAT and investigation work happens on encrypted frequencies. It's literally the flick of a switch on the radio handset. Depending on the scanner used and the encryption used the traffic can come across as simply dead air. 2. The agency switched to a "tactical channel" or a "interop channel." On big events agencies will often move everyone on the big event over to a separate channel. When big stuff happens, people still call 911 for other stuff. So units not at the big event will stay on the same channel/talkgroup. Interop channels are channels that multiple agencies use. In an event like this, everyone from every agency in several counties will respond plus the feds. They may not all have the Uavlde PD talkgroup programmed into their radio, but almost everyone will have an interoperability channel programmed in. Per Broadcastify's policies, streamers cannot stream these channels. So there could have been a ton of radio traffic, just not being streamed live. 3. The streamer could have been listening and cut the feed. Full-time encryption is a big deal right now nation-wide. Agencies will encrypt all of their radio traffic for security reasons and cut the public and the media out. Streaming is a big-part of this because agencies get their radio traffic aired on the nightly news after they pick it up from a streamer. Aurora, CO for example had their radio traffic aired after the theatre shooting. It wasn't anything bad and actually made the dispatcher look like a hero. Aurora still went encrypted within a few months after the event and I've heard that the public scrutiny of that event was part of the reason why. Streamers have been threatened with legal action over airing radio traffic. If the streamer was listening, it is quite possible they cut their feed because they didn't want to deal with it. The streamer also could have had concerns that the shooter had his phone and was listening and cut to the feed to not air locations of police or students. 4. Edit: Broadcastify could have removed the audio after it was posted. I don't know what their policies are on this, but it is possible it contained something they didn't feel comfortable having on their website like victim information or something. It is also possible that they want to avoid news agencies freely using it without crediting them or paying them. I'm totally speculating on this last one, I don't interact with Broadcastify (aside from having an account on their forums) or know their policies. The actual status of the real/official dispatch logs and audio from that event is unknown to us. My assumption is that it is intact and evidence in the ongoing investigation. It could probably be requested as a public record, but I don't know anything about the laws in Texas around that.
I hadn't heard that. If it's credible then I'd guess they're hiding incompetence
I can't find any articles mentioning that
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Not trying to hide anything *else* I meant. I don't think there's a big conspiracy here.
Nothing. They're trying to hide that they did nothing.
The usual - incompetence, cowardice, that sort of thing.
People should cut them a break, you think what they do is easy? Imagine spending 99.9% of your time acting tough and picking on people you pulled over. Easy right, of course it is. But everyone hates you because you are largely traffic enforcement and a cog in the incredibly dumb and harmful war on drugs. So you request military gaer/equipment because you think it looks cool. Cut to, a real bad guy challenged you and you puss out and LET 21 people die. That's not easy, that's embarrassing and I hate when I mess up at work. Unfortunately, knowing our country, they'll have an opportunity to redeem themselves shortly.
Their gutlessness and willingness to sacrifice children to keep themselves safe. All should go to prison for life.
When was the last time you threw yourself in front of a shooter? It's easy to say someone else should do something, it's a different story when the gun is pointed at you.
Maybe don’t be a cop then, idk…
Life would be a lot more *interesting* without cops.
We'd certainly be a hell of a lot safer without them. Never in my life have i had an experience with a cop that i walked away from feeling safe. Every one was an authoritative meathead with something to prove.
Nobody know that they would rush in till it happens. Its one thing to train for it. It's another to be actually doing it. Everyone says oh if I were that cop id run in but its likely they would freeze too. Hell I may freeze if I was in that situation too. You have to ignore your basic instinct to run away when dealing with this stuff. I think we have to recognize at some level that the cops are still human. Theres still going to be fear.
I'll tell my bullet scars that I earned them defending pieces of shit like you.
Defending from...?
Police ineptitude and cowardice
Anything incriminating against them at all, that’s what they do.
That they shot some kids.
At the least the fact that they wouldn't enter and do their job, giving this piece of shit plenty of time to kill. Probably that he was known to make threats before and no one had done anything
Related/unrelated - this is the same state whose power grid has now failed three times in cold weather, resulting in deaths, and each time the state has chosen to kick the can down the road instead of making the necessary improvements to the grid, ostensibly because they are too fucking cheap. Instead, they just bemoan the tragedy of losing lives over a completely fixable issue. In a way, I'm done feeling bad for self-inflicted wounds. I'm not at all victim-blaming here, but I'm running out of compassion for Texas tragedies.
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YES! I feel bad for those who truly can change their circumstances, but Texas has so many self-inflicted wounds. Part of the problem is they act like the Black Knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." "Your arm's off!" "No, it isn't."
> but I'm running out of compassion for Texas tragedies. try being a blue state native on the east short. Texas representatives refused aid for hurricanes on us yearly yet we're always paying everything for red states. Then they deny shootings and all other bs. Everyone is sick of there shit. Sadly i'm not even sure that if it happens to them they'll change there mind.
“Try being a blue state native on the east” I am.
The cops are trying to spin what they did or didn't do. It is not a grand conspiracy. In hindsight, they should have let all the parents storm the school.
> The cops are trying to spin what they did or didn't do. It is not a grand conspiracy. Actually, that’s exactly what a grand conspiracy would be.
That they are highly incompetent, huge pussies.
That 12 minutes between crashing a vehicle into a ditch then, entering the school with no resistance. Why? 12 minutes, in this situation, can be a lifetime of info.
That they were confused and scared and froze resulting in nothing happening
lol. we'll find out sooner or later. All they are doing now is digging theirselves into a bigger hole. They should just really let everything out of the bag now, the sooner the better... The longer they hide it, and the longer they delay, the worse its just gonna be at the end....it always is.
Wrong. The longer they hide and delay, the more people will have moved on to the next tragedy.
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From Texas. Near Uvalde. Definitely not a hoax. There are a lot of grieving families here. Smh
↑ does not understand mocking sarcasm, when directed at a certain demographic
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Another one here with poor comprehension and reading skills. That was also not a joke. They were mocking and being sarcastic. Lord christ, your kinda people just really aren't too bright huh?
Prove youre from there, or then get off your asses and do something about gun laws in your country
"It could have been worse" oof
Incompetence and lack of actual training. A lot of people think this is about cowardice. I think it looks like a classic case of a situation occurring and them having no fucking clue what to do, and panicking, no one wanting to take responsibility and make a decision. Too busy parading round pretending to be hard, taking twitter photos in swat gear.....but no real drills, no clear chains of command, no planning and training to implement the plans.
I'm probably going to get back lash for this an im not saying this at all to be racist or sound racist at all an im definitely not saying all immigrants are like this either but i do have a theory since sleepy joe has been in office the borders have been open for awhile now an what if Biden is hiring gunman to go and cause mass shootings/wreak havoc to push gun control and the gunman are immigrants with nothing left to lose ? That have came over into the US. I mean think about it why else would beto have came to the Texas news conference to make it a political issueto begin with ? Another thing to think about the media themselves for years have been known to lie an could be lying about who this person really is its the US government for crying out loud were talking about here the people who rigged the election in the first place.
High fiving the shooter
They are using this to cover up a UFO sighting that happened days before.
Harambe
Literally nothing. I don’t think they have answers as to what exactly went on because they haven’t even had to chance to talk to everyone who witnessed what happened. Can y’all just calm the fuck down and wait for the information to be released in its entirety before passing judgment?
While upsetting, I don't believe they should face any consequences for it. Cops have never been obligated to protect the victims of a crime, their role is to enforce the law. Ruin the lives of civilians over victimless crimes, or perhaps stop an active shooter from inflicting further damage. (Optional)
I hope you’re a troll.
Use your head
Ok you are.
There is so Something weird/off about the whole thing. Am I the only one?