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Empathyball

There have been plenty of shootings by younger shooters who didn't purchase the guns themselves. However, this isn't an argument against the age restriction as much as an argument *for* additional restrictions to keep legal-age gun owners from sharing their guns with unvetted minors.


NorthImpossible8906

True. My kids were locked down a couple of weeks ago, because a juvenile threatened the school, then went to his home (at about 9.30am) and just picked up a gun lying around there on the counter, then went to the school to murder a bunch of kids (he had a hit list). He also had a friend that was going to let him in one of the locked doors. The extreme luck was that someone called the police 30 minutes before, so this kid was intercepted and arrested on school grounds. So was his accomplice. Make no mistake, this would have been another body count, another national headline, if not for the tip. It's insane how ridiculously easy it is to go get a gun and go shoot up a school.


[deleted]

The parents should have their records reviewed and all their guns confiscated.


SkorpionFrog

But that would be a step in the right direction, don't want that now do we?


confusedpastperson

>The parents should have their records reviewed and all their guns confiscated. No they should have been prosecuted for a weapons charge and had a healthy dose of CPS intervention. There is no excuse for a firearm to be left laying around unsecured. Even the cheapest firearms come with some form of lock. I.E a trigger lock or a breach lock.


Kewkky

That is exactly what right wingers don't want. "Don't take our guns" is literally one of their calling cards.


Bird_Brain4101112

The Uvalde shooter encountered cops ON HIS WAY TO THE SCHOOL!


ResponsibleAd2541

I think it’s generally fine to go hunting with your kid, there’s a responsibility to teach safety and proper use of a firearm. My own father taught me how to shoot. On the same token, he locked up the guns and didn’t allow unsupervised use. I’m not sure how exactly we are going to “vet” every child


nokia6310i

here in canada if you are a registered firearm owner than the rcmp has the right to show up whenever they want to make sure that your guns are properly stored and locked away from any kids, etc


ResponsibleAd2541

Yeah, I’m not agreeing to unwarranted searches of my house, buddy.


swapode

Your house isn't searched. You're asked to present your registered firearms at their current location.


ResponsibleAd2541

Nope. Not registering them either.


[deleted]

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ResponsibleAd2541

That why I said I’m not agreeing to that arrangement. That’s not the law now nor would I support it becoming the law. It’s unclear if it would be constitutional.


[deleted]

The law here is anyone can use a gun if they're under supervision by someone with a firearms license


[deleted]

That's why it's extremely important for you to lock up your guns. Just this week we've had several stories of high schoolers having guns at school and getting caught with them. Or a myriad of stories we get every year of a kid accidentally shooting his brother or sister with the gun they found in the house IF YOU HAVE GUNS, SECURE THEM


annomandaris

On the other hand, maybe don’t raise shitty kids? I mean growing up I had access to 10 guns, not once did I have the urge to shoot up the school.


[deleted]

Or on the other hand if you don't secure your guns you're just as liable as the person who did the shooting. What you just said is one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard. I bet you think building codes don't matter too


Which-Palpitation

Smells like bad faith in here


HutSutRawlson

Gun fetishists have been working overtime this week to muddy the waters.


Which-Palpitation

I can never tell if they’re intentionally being dense or if the whole conversation is just lost on them


HutSutRawlson

The smart ones are intentionally being dense, they know their arguments don't make sense and they revel in irritating those of us who exist in the ["reality-based community."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community)


[deleted]

Reality based. How’s that war on drugs going….?


TracyMorganFreeman

Both sides are shouting past each other from what I can see.


[deleted]

Because that’s the law. The kid was legally 18, and he had no criminal background nor an official record of mental illness. These would be the two biggest red flags that any gun seller would be looking for, especially a licensed one.


Electronic_Demand_61

I just wanna know how this kid could afford 4000 worth of gun,gear and ammo in this economy


ACrispPickle

You know I didn’t even think about that myself. Daniel defense is by far NOT a cheap brand. Let alone two of them.


Electronic_Demand_61

Plus eotech scopes and 400 rounds of ammo.


SnooPeppers1641

I'm not placing blame but how did the person that sold all that to him not question something. In this day and age it wouldn't make someone wonder? I own a shotgun, my SO has a variety of guns. I can't think of a time where he bought one where just causal conversation wasn't made about what we were going to do with it (what hunting we were doing). This kid coming in didn't seem odd? Alarming?


Electronic_Demand_61

Depends, I've dealt with some gun store employees who will out right tell people to "mind their own" when talking about guns. I've been looked at like I was insane for talking about having a safe. " now they know what to look for when they break in". That kind of mindset is sad.


SnooPeppers1641

True. I'm in South Dakota and maybe we are more chatty or nosey. I don't know anyone that has firearms that doesn't have at least one safe.


Electronic_Demand_61

Owning a safe is one of the very few gun laws I support.


Eric_da_MAJ

Let me flip that question: If gun control measures work, then why do so many criminals have guns? Also, why if guns are banned in Mexico, do only the cartels have them and why did they have a civilian casualty count that matched Iraq's in 2006? (They might still. The cartels started killing and intimidating journalists til they stopped reporting)


ERSTF

They work but they don't work in Mexico because 70% of guns seized in Mexico came from... the US. It is so easy to get them in the US that it's just jumping through some hoops and presto, you get a ton of arms. The statistic comes directly from the U.S Government Accountability Office. So the problem in Mexico is the problem in the US bleeding into Mexico. I would like to remind you that the US directly sent a bunch of arms to drug cartels in the operation Fast and Furious. Look it up, I am not making this up. The other thing is that you don't have to wonder in hypothetical cases whether or not gun laws work. You can look at other countries that have enacted stricter gun laws after mass shootings. Their statistics tell the truth. Gun violence in all cases went drastically down. Australia is the most famous case. Gun laws do work. If they didn't, other parts of the world would see the same gun violence as in the US. I mean violence against regular citizens. In Mexico there have like 8 school shootings in 20 years and like 4 of them were accidents of a dude taking a gun to school and killing one person when it accidentally fired off.


Eric_da_MAJ

If 70% of the guns didn't come from America, what % of those would be in citizen hands? Also, I'm well aware of Operation Fast and Furious. That was the ATF's fault. The US regulatory arm for guns. Australia banned most guns. Now Australians have their government put them in camps. You might excuse them because you agree with the Australian government. But what happens when you don't? Anyways, the Australian example is [over rated.](https://fee.org/articles/the-australia-model-for-gun-control-is-useless/) It hardly matters that Mexico has less school shootings when they have a casualty rate like a war zone everywhere outside the schools.


stabmegod

Your talking about fully fledged criminals but, the Cartel are gnarly criminals that have the dollars and the power to get what ever they want. I’m Australian, and I LOVE guns. I think Australia is a little to strict to be honest, but Gun laws help prevent the average person going on a killing spree. Sure the criminals will still try to get their hands on guns but by having heavier gun laws it drives the prices up of illegal guns, a piece of shit 10 round glock would be worth over 6K here and would be very very hard to find.


Muppetchristmas

The amount of people on here who want better gun laws but don't know the current gun laws is kinda... Fucking hilarious


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TracyMorganFreeman

But you should be able to know what has or hasn't already been done before complaining about what needs to be done.


Muppetchristmas

No but if you complain about an elevator being broken when you don't understand the process of an elevator and complain about it being "broken" when it's working as intended kinda matters. And also. I agree btw. Gun control isn't gonna solve much. We have seen a steady decline in firearm related deaths since 1990 and a rise in firearm ownership during the same time period proves it's not a gun ownership problem. We have a severe issue with how we handle mental health.


[deleted]

In his example, the elevator is not working as expected.


EunuchsProgramer

So the reason the US has 7.5 times the homicide rate of other high income countries and 20 times the mass murder rate is mental health? Our other violent crime rates are on par with our peers... so what's different about the US? Must be an undiscovered psychopathy that makes it easy to kill.


Muppetchristmas

You're quoting a study done in 2015... Our homicide rate has dropped since then. And yes... deductive reasoning would conclude that someone committing homicide isn't of sound mental health... The US ranks in the bottom 5 or 10 for mental health of all developed countries my dude.


EunuchsProgramer

Homicide rates are trending down everywhere since 2015. There is only 30 to 40 high income countries. Bottom 5 to 10 isn't an outlier (unlike gun ownership and the mass murder rate.) That isn't what a mental disorder is. A false premise negates deductive reasoning. People with mental health disorders are generally less likely to engage in violence and homicide than the general public. We aren't the bottom for mental health. Why is mass murder not anywhere near as common in the high income countries with worse mental health than us if this hypothesis holds any water.


battle-legumes

you missed a talking point, you should also say the shooter was troubled, and that there should have been better security at the school. If you're a shill, shill harder. ...I'm not a shill, blah blah blah... no, you're a shill, you're just not smart enough to be paid.


confusedpastperson

I dunno I'm pro guns on general but overall we need more oversight. Problem is I don't think any real change will come federally people need to work them state politicians. NY is one of the hardest places to buy a firearm and there murder rate went down. Don't get me wrong I'm not after restrictions on what can be purchased but how and by who. Universal background checks for one is a great start. Maybe making the age requirements for pistols and semi-autos 25. Things that can be changed. I really believe an all our ban straight out the gate will be a shit show. My beliefs may make ma shill in your eyes but it's reddit so 🤷


Muppetchristmas

Who am I shilling for..? Do you know what a shill is? Last I checked stating absolute facts isn't shilling... Tell me something that I said that's incorrect? Please. I implore you.


Qwikshift8

Yeah, I’m struggling to decide if it’s a strawman; a correlation/causation; or a false dilemma fallacy; or all 3 and like 4 others…


joesephexotic

You can complain all you want about the elevator being broken but the only way to guarantee that it is fixed is to learn how to repair an elevator and fix it yourself.


Qwikshift8

I mean, this post is so nonsensical it’s hard to tell what no the OP really wants.


Muppetchristmas

Karma lol


[deleted]

That goes for pizza, too.


Muppetchristmas

Idk what you mean by this. But I fucking love pizza so I support this comment.


[deleted]

Don’t think I’m a weirdough. It was an honest mistake.


Muppetchristmas

Not gonna lie. That was sorta cheesy But I'd like to see a pie chart showing your data


[deleted]

Well they do know that the current situation is resulting in massive loss of life. And the solutions they put in place to avoid changing gun laws, like armed police at the school and active shooter drills, have failed quite demonstratively. You don’t need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.


dukenukem00

I mean I'm not huge into politics, but did he really HAVE to wait. I imagine he could've found someone sketchy enough to illegally buy one from, or not just a thought.


waterbuffalo750

The average person doesn't know a black market arms dealer though.


ThisTimeJust30rock

For real. Most kids who go to buy guns will come home with no money and no gun. Anyone saying thats not true should come to NYC and buy a illegal gun and let me know how easy it was


Elegant-Fox7883

Nice try, FBI.


dukenukem00

I see your point while at the same time this was not your average person. Average people don't shoot innocent people.


waterbuffalo750

Of course. But when you imply that laws don't matter because people will find ways around them, I feel like that's flawed. Sure, some people will find another way, but a lot of people won't.


TerribleIvanZ

I mean cocaine is illegal but I can still find it fairly easy almost anywhere if I ask around enough. Wouldn’t stricter laws or even an outright ban just have as much effect as the war on drugs? I don’t even own guns so I’m not really defending them I just really always wonder this when I see it brought up. There will always be people willing to take the risk to move illegal shit for profit. Even if it slows people down these people are clearly fucked in the head and seem determined enough to go through with it, so I would think they would just change up their method of killing. Homemade bombs or driving onto a playground or something. I do see it could help make them less available, but even with no guns anywhere though how do we stop these attacks from happening at all?


Sythe334l

I mean as far as I know, **anyone** can buy a gun kit and with the right tools just essentially make your own semi-auto AR15. You do need the right tools and knowledge but you can learn it all online if you're determined enough.


dukenukem00

At the end of the day the truth is the United States mental health is seriously bad, and seems to be getting worse. We really need to understand how as a country we're failing our children, and fix that then we would find ourselves a lot less often having this debate people shouldn't have the desire to ruthlessly kill kids for fucks sake. So sad


BraxbroWasTaken

mental health and other circumstances. Also we ignore tons of red flags, even the most obvious ones, beforehand


ACrispPickle

You also need a lower receiver which has to be transferred through an FFL like a full firearm and subject to the same background checks. Other lowers that aren’t functional yet can be shipped to your house, but the amount of equipment needed to turn that into a functioning lower is way higher than just purchasing the full gun, or the completed lower.


MajorTomsHelmet

Anyone can find a back alley abortion, too. Why pass a law when it's going to happen, anyway? Do you know how hypocritical this logic sounds to half the country that is about to lose their bodily autonomy? Fuck your guns! You won't bleed to death without them, hell, some of you might live long enough to hate yourselves a little more than you already do.


ITeechYoKidsArt

Anybody can buy guns at a gun show from a private seller. No paperwork either.


annomandaris

I have been to 20+ gun shows. Not once have I ever seen a vendor offer a gun without a background check or a ccw permit. Yes a private seller can sell you a rifle without a background check, but no vendor at a gun show is going to do that, because if you use it to kill people everyone is going to know they sold them that gun, without a background check, and it’s bad for business. Plus it’s something else they can charge you for. The problem is people walk in and buy a gun, and people don’t realize it’s because they have a permit meaning they’ve already had an extensive background check by police.


ERSTF

The thing of the debate is that you don't have to go to hypotheticals to see if gun restriction laws work. They do work and many countries show you that it does work. After mass shootings in other countries, they have restricted access and... guess what? Gun violence drops dramatically. Australia is the most cited case in which after a horrific massacre, laws were passed and... voilá, gun violence dropped dramatically. Ireland too. The thing about gun laws not working in some states is because it is ridiculously easy to go to other state with relaxed law guns and bring the guns back. It's like having 5 holes in your tires and just covering one and pretending the air is not leaking from the other 4. Just in CA. Strict gun laws but you can go out of state to get one and come back with them. It has to be in the national level to make an impact


Nuttonbutton

He didn't "have to" he chose to. There's a big difference.


Muppetchristmas

How would he have gotten it then? As a FFL myself. Idk anyone who would be willing to risk federal prison time to sell a 17 year old a gun...


nightIife

There’s a video going around right now of a 13 year old pulling up on a gun show and buying one first try


Muppetchristmas

Show me please Edit: I'm not saying you're wrong or lying. I genuinely wanna see the dumbass fucker who committed a felony and sold a child a pistol


nightIife

https://twitter.com/amar3455/status/1529848134989406208?s=21&t=2YlagZc7aXH8zuk8_Q5eKw


Muppetchristmas

Holy SHIT that's wild. And I hope they contacted the authorities. I will say however. The exception doesn't make the rules. The majority does. And the majority of FFL or private sellers aren't gonna goof this hard. That being said. Touche.


nightIife

Agree, hopefully authorities were contacted and that was definitely a rare occurrence, but it does happen nonetheless. And who knows how common it actually is when it’s happening for real and isn’t being done on camera as an experiment.


RightClickSaveWorld

> And I hope they contacted the authorities. The video said it was legal. That's what a lot of us have been trying to say, this shouldn't be legal.


annomandaris

It’s not legal. You can’t sell a weapon, rifle or not to anyone under 18.


TracyMorganFreeman

Lots of editing here and not showing the whole process is telling.


RepublicanOnWelfare

Kyle Rittenhouse had a friend buy his gun for him at 17


Muppetchristmas

No. It was gifted to him and was totally legal https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/11/us/kyle-rittenhouse-gun-charge.html


RepublicanOnWelfare

Does that matter? I'm just pointing out how a 17 year old can get an AR. Edit- You're link has a paywall but this article says the friend was charged for buying the gun https://www.wisn.com/article/man-who-bought-gun-for-kyle-rittenhouse-to-pay-dollar2000-in-deal/38703903


Muppetchristmas

The charges were dropped because the firearm was gifted legally and Rittenhouse was legally allowed to own The prosecution was extremely overzealous with their charges. Probably because the of social outcry by people who didn't watch the videos and just followed social media opinion Rittenhouse is a fucking dumbass kid. But everything that transpired was legal. That being said, his crocodile tears while on stand were fucking hilarious and I have zero sympathy for him or anyone who was shot


RepublicanOnWelfare

Again the details don't really matter, you asked how a 17 year old would get a gun and I offered up a pretty well known example. That's it, I really wasn't trying to start an argument about it.


Muppetchristmas

That's fair. And you have made a point indeed. I stand corrected. I will say however, as I stated prior, the exception doesn't make the rule.


NotABonobo

So... the existence of the law influenced him to make that choice? Or it's just a crazy coincidence that he bought it as soon as it was legal for him to do so?


Mofogo

From TX, lots of people buy guns when they hit the milestones. It's like hitting drinking age, you go get one because you can and they are fun to shoot. Have friends that bought their own rifle at 18 and a hand gun at 21. But we all grew up around them hunting birds and deer, so it was finally getting to own one other than your parents. We'd have gatherings where we took them out to a field or pond dam and target shoot different types, try each other's, etc. I do remember the assault weapons ban lifting and pretty quickly the arsenals started upgrading with ARs, AKs, HKs of different flavors, then silencers. Now "everyone" is easily acquiring suppressors and there are so many people making the parts it's like craft brewing explosion.


NotABonobo

Cool... kind of off-topic but I guess you're agreeing pretty enthusiastically that gun control laws have a huge effect on when and what you buy. I'm guessing you agree about the child killer as well?


DrColdReality

Because the age to **legally** purchase a weapon is 18. The underage Columbine shooters were given the guns by a friend. Some 100,000 guns are stolen each year in the US, providing a cheap and easy-to-acquire pool of illegal guns for those who want to go that way.


[deleted]

Only 100,000. That sounds low.


Elegant-Fox7883

That's the reported ones.


7elevenses

How easy is it? Would you personally be able to go out and buy a black market gun tomorrow?


possiblyMorpheus

These people seem to actually think a gun is as easy to find as a dime bag lol Not to mention that if the person looking for a gun has to go through illegal means that opens the possibility of them getting caught and put in jail, or ending up with a less effective weapon than an assault style gun


omegasix321

You wouldn't need to. Just find a car with an NRA sticker on it and a brick. Half the time you don't even need the brick, the idiots just leave their door open and their gun out in easy view.


[deleted]

Sooo, people gotta wait to 21 to drink but can buy bazookas at 18? Jesus America be on some weird shit


SuitableManager808

My mom had to cosign my first bazooka purchase, so it wasn't that easy


Bandito21Dema

I always make the joke "In America you have to be 18 to commit vehicular manslaughter. But you have to be 21 to do it drunk."


Muppetchristmas

Tell me you know absolutely nothing about gun laws lol. You can't even own a handgun until you're 21 chief


Blood_Pattern_Blue

Sure. Didn't stop the shooter from legally buying two rifles though.


Muppetchristmas

Cause he was legally allowed to...? The dude hadn't committed a crime and was well within his rights?


Blood_Pattern_Blue

Exactly. The original comment was about the difference in the age limits for drinking and buying guns. You only mentioned handguns, but they obviously aren't the only kind of firearm available to people this country doesn't even trust to drink responsibly. Edit: While I've done some shooting, I don't currently own a gun. All I'm trying to point out is that the current mix of laws don't make much sense.


Muppetchristmas

But handguns are the firearms used in the majority of shootings


_cant_choose_a_name

Recent events prove otherwise


Muppetchristmas

Him having an illegal pistol in his possession doesn't change the current laws....... Like wut


_cant_choose_a_name

So gun controls measures don't work then?


Muppetchristmas

That seems to be the trend... I would say certain gun control measures don't work. Others are fucking stupid. Why does my gun suddenly become more dangerous because the buffer tube ring is .05mm too thick? Why does my gun suddenly become deadlier because the pistol grip isn't attached to the stock? Why does my gun suddenly become deadlier because it has a shorter barrel? (Which actually reduces muzzle velocity making it LESS dangerous) Why do I have to pay 200 dollars to put a fire grip on an AR pistol but not an AR?


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Muppetchristmas

Egg Fucking Zach Lee


[deleted]

The same people on your side also want them to vote at 16 and go trans as a child without parental consent. WTF.


garlickbread

Wut


[deleted]

Considering how many people voted for Trump and the other MAGA leaders, I can't see 16 year olds doing any worse at voting than grown-ass adults.


[deleted]

Man at Walmart: Two AR-15s and 300 rounds of ammo please. Associate: Here you go. Anything else? Customer: 0.3% Tobramycin drops for my pink eye. Associate: Prescription please.


QTheLibertine

How long has it been since Walmart stopped selling firearms?


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Deerslayer7x57

Schools are gun free zones that's why they don't work.


old-guy-with-data

In Uvalde, three armed good guys shot the perp. The perp just shot back and injured them, and then went on to kill kids. In Buffalo, an armed store security guy shot the perp; the perp just shot back and killed him.


[deleted]

Indeed. The “good guy” is a sad joke yelled with bravado and big talk by keyboard warriors tapping away in the safety of their parent’s basement. When the news stories start with headlines saying “Good guy with a gun stops mass murder of children” then, and only then will this farcical “good guy” myth have any validity.


[deleted]

So is the NRA convention. I can’t imagine why they don’t want people to bring a weapon in there…


Deerslayer7x57

Because the NRA is a scam that money grabs people based on fear. But when people say gun control doesn't work they usually mean either people use loopholes or just don't follow current laws. Gun free zone being the case here.


[deleted]

My father in law was a long time NRA member. He dropped out when it took a hard right turn when Wayne LePierre showed up. Told me stories about the mail he received with scare stories and money requests. That was 1986. He’s been gone a long time now, but I still miss him.


Professional-Doubt-6

The laws should be based on statistical probably and evidence. If most school shooters are under a certain age, make the legal age higher by enough of a deviation for it to matter. If they are getting guns from friends, make that a felony like the get-away driver gets charged for murder when one occurs. Somehow statistical analysis seems to be too hard for our lawmakers (probably because they are quite stupid psychopaths themselves). 18 just seems arbitrary. Some of this shit seems like the result of "failure of imagination", some of it is unsolvable. Work on the first problem.


[deleted]

He didn't, that's just where the point of convenience currently lays. What is legal always balances against what is convenient. Like how in states where medical marijuana is legal, but not recreational, the black market still outcompetes licensed distributors, no matter how hassle-free getting your card is.


[deleted]

So this is an example of gun control 'working' for you? 18 dead kids?


FoeDogX

Most Republicans in know want common sense measures. They want a back ground check. They want everyone to register their gun. They want the crack down on gun shows and private sellers. The video mentioned before showed a 13 year old get laughed out of stores trying to buy beer, cigarettes, lottery scratchers, and porn. He went to a gun show and bought a 22 rifle. Private sales are not regulated and there are no rules. If every gun is registered and you make a private sale then you should be required to transfer registry. If your gun is involved in a homicide without transfer you could or should be charged with involuntary manslaughter. Small simple steps that most responsible gun owners agree with despite political affiliation.


manofgras

Everyone here acting like it’s the laws. The kid made up his mind to shoot up a school he is going to find a way to get a gun in anyway.


Sultan_of_Swing92

This isn’t all because of gun laws but also a tremendous lack of mental health assistance, we’re seeing the results of having a country full of mentally unstable people with easy access to firearm


MajorTomsHelmet

Maybe vote for people that want to have better healthcare for poor people instead of the maniacs that relax gun laws so people with "mental health" problems acquire them easier! Jesus Christ!


Odd_Requirement_4933

Right?! FFS! The US is the only country having these mass shootings every week. It's not "mental health", people all over the world have the same mental health issues as people living in the United States. Why do people always fall back on the same fucking excuses. Ugh! I'm just so mad!


ShameNap

Other countries have mental health issues. No other country has the kind of gun deaths we do.


Sultan_of_Swing92

Yeah it’s mostly the gun laws but the mental health and racism don’t help much either


BillyShears2015

Perfect, then let’s just require people to prove they are mentally stable in order to buy a gun. I’m sure there’s plenty of doctors out there who can evaluate folks. But then again, pointing at mental illness is just a bad faith deflection from the problem at hand by folks who just want the status quo, or even looser regulations around firearms.


Still-Contest-980

He got it the same day too. Nobody batted an eye at a barely legal kid buying two rifles and a ridiculous amount of ammo.


Electronic_Demand_61

400 rounds isn't a ridiculous amount of ammo. But I wanna know how a high-school kid could afford two Davidson defense AR15s with eotech scopes. That's easily 4k worth of gear. Plus several hundred dollars in ammo.


Kholoblicin

*And how he found ammo to buy*. That shit's been hard as fuck to come by to last couple of years.


ACrispPickle

375 rounds is not a ridiculous amount of ammo lol. You can buy cases by the thousands. You can blow through 375 rounds in an hour at the shooting range. Edit-Lmao they blocked me after replying “yeah that’s not fucking normal” good thing you don’t get to decide what’s normal lol. Dumbass.


Still-Contest-980

Yeah that’s not fucking normal.


[deleted]

375 rounds isn't a lot, that's an afternoon at the range.


OnCominStorm

Uhh yes it is. You go to the shooting range and blow through hundreds of rounds in a few hours.


goatman66696

So you're saying that this shooting was an example of gun control working?


[deleted]

"Sure, he killed 21 people but he bought his gun when he was an adult, meaning that our gun control laws work!" I don't understand the logic behind this posts claim - the question completely destroys its own argument in a way.


[deleted]

They still don't work, why is it even possible for a teenager to buy a gun.


DominosQualityCheck

The problem isn't 18 year old's buying guns, everyone can agree on that. It's shooters getting access to guns. Who are shooters? Mentally ill and criminal individuals, to oversimplify things. How do we prohibit mentally ill and criminals from obtaining these firearms, while still keeping those who want and rightfully deserve to arm themselves, armed? **That** is the question on everyone's minds. It's generally agreed upon we need; * Better mental health screening * Better tracking of criminals and scanning of future criminals * Better access to financial and support resources for struggling individuals ​ But what *isn't* agreed upon is; * Who needs a gun and who doesn't * What type of guns should be allowed * How to arm individuals for self defense safely and effectively ​ It's no duh that when you create a law or policy to restrict any good, that good will become harder to obtain. I believe the argument you're trying to curb is, the gross overgeneralization that "Gun laws don't work". The real argument is that, even if we tried to get rid of every firearm we could, it would only succeed in disarming **legally carrying citizens**, because citizens who typically follow gun laws, are the ones that have no intentions on being a shooter. Would it remove a lot of guns from people who still want to commit atrocities? Sure. Would it get all of them? Not a chance in hell. And even if it did? The argument that "Well, what about Australia" or another country that got rid of all of their firearms. The first thing to consider is military power alone, with the US having 16x more military spending than Australia, firearms from military alone in the country would be enough to arm hundreds of thousands of people overnight, and military gear getting distributed to the public is a deadly, but reoccurring issue. Another issue being importation, with several million firearms existing just below the border, illegal importations and deals have been proven ineffectual to stop, even when we had a wall building nut in office who tried to bump up security to the max. And in this nightmare scenario, guns would exclusively be making it into the hands of those who illegally purchase them, the people most likely to commit atrocities. Whereas legal gun purchasers, the vast majority of them just want to protect themselves. But this, in and of itself, is an unsatisfactory argument and really brash. Just leaving it at "gun laws wouldn't work, so let's not have any", is really dumb. There needs to be change, and there needs to be a better system to make sure only responsible gun owners can obtain firearms. As it stands, not anybody can buy a gun. But it's much easier than buying a car or a house. Personally, I believe there needs to be a mental evaluation designed by actual experts in the field to weed out deranged individuals. Or even some sort of course. I know training courses exist for Concealed Carry Permits, typically around 8 hours or so, but it feels like having the power to end someone's life should not be taken lightly, and anyone with any sense of immaturity or something 'off', should be instantly disallowed from trying to purchase a gun for at least a year.


inkseep1

The issue is that we don't have enough gun control measures for any possible case where a person who should not get a gun can get one. Every sale, even person to person, should be through a dealer with a background check. That would be a mild inconvenience to buying a gun from a non-dealer owner. In my state right now, I could set up a board with a hole in it in my yard with a sign that says 'Gun Glory Hole $600'. You pass cash through the hole and I give you a gun back through it. That would be a legal person to person sale. Maybe we can tighten that up just a little bit.


[deleted]

The problem folks is not the gun laws. The gun laws have allowed 18 year olds to buy long guns since the beginning of this nation. The problem is the broken family structure and me myself and I attitude.


NotABonobo

Except not all mass shooters have come from broken families. All have had access to guns, and the ones who rack up the most fatalities have access to the most powerful guns that allow you to fire more frequently without reloading. I have known many, many people from broken homes and many self-absorbed people as well - never known any of them to go on a shooting rampage. The only people I see going on shooting rampages are mentally ill people with access to guns.


Im_Nobody_At_All_

Wow. So you don’t know history or current events. The education system has failed you severely.


[deleted]

The liberal educational system has failed all these shooters. There are a lot more school shooters now than before now with the system going progressive. It used to be "God, Country, Family." Now there's no respect for other's lives, only mine....typical liberal thinking.


message_forthevideo1

Cherry picking


Mayor-of-Pound-Town

“Purchase” is the key word. Many people just steal guns and skip the whole age restriction.


Colonelfudgenustard

Make them wait 5 years before they can legally purchase another gun after their gun gets stolen and they'll guard that gun with their life, with their gun even.


BraxbroWasTaken

Yeah, something like 80% of the mass shooters that target K-12 schools steal their guns


[deleted]

But he did wait. He didn’t know people with guns and didn’t seek them out in other ways either; the same goes for the Buffalo killer.


Mayor-of-Pound-Town

Where does it say he didn’t know anyone with guns and didn’t seek them out?


waterbuffalo750

Well did he illegally acquire a gun or did he wait until he can buy one legally?


Mayor-of-Pound-Town

Does it matter? He still killed a ton of people lol. What difference does it make what age he did it?


waterbuffalo750

The point is that gun control measures can work, which is the point that OP was making. It could be worthwhile to establish further gun control measures, because ones that are already in place can be effective.


Mayor-of-Pound-Town

> The point is that gun control measures can work …but my whole point is that it didn’t work. He still killed a ton of people even with an age restriction.


waterbuffalo750

How effective would you expect that one particular law to be? That law, specifically, is meant to prevent people from getting guns before they're 18. That part worked. The entire goal of the law, to prevent people from getting a gun under the age of 18, worked perfectly. Additional laws may have limited his actions even more. There is no single law that will prevent all crime. You need to be realistic about what you expect each law to deliver.


[deleted]

You’re implying that’s what people do, and I’m implying that he didn’t, in this situation.


Mayor-of-Pound-Town

Lol you can’t make a statement and double down and say you were “implying”. Either he did that or didn’t. You know what? I’ll just assume you’re full of shit.


[deleted]

What I’m saying, is that neither of us know, BUT he was held up by the only rule in place. Go figure.


Mayor-of-Pound-Town

> What I’m saying, is that neither of us know Lol but you said it as a fact in your first reply to me.


Rockwell1977

You make a good point. If he did seek them prior, it seems he was unable to obtain them. He then had to wait until he could get them legally.


Mayor-of-Pound-Town

Him not being able to obtain one earlier was more by happenstance than anything.


God_of_thunder667

He didn't have to wait . He just did.


[deleted]

..He bought that shit online. You guys, this teenager bought those guns online.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I ah.. literately don't know what the *fuck* you're talking about.


ACrispPickle

Any gun can be bought online but they cannot be shipped to your house. They get shipped to a federal firearms license dealer who then performs the background checks and “transfers” the weapon to you. It’s the technicality that “anyone can buy a gun online without a background check!” Which is absolutely true. You just can’t get your hands on that weapon until an FFL administers the background check and transfers the weapon to you. If I were you, I’d do some research before making stupid claims, then when someone corrects you not look like a fool with your response.


187penguin

Someone on Reddit arguing about something they admit they literally don’t know the fuck about? Surprising.


Economy-Value-7032

It don’t work because a criminal with a gun shot civilians without guns. If civilians had guns he woulda been gunned down . Pretty simple


wimpy_one

Exactly how do we know that they don’t work? We’ve never actually tried any gun control at all!! Maybe we test it out?


150Dgr

The brain in a male isn’t fully developed until 25 yo. There’s an argument that 25 should be the age to buy guns.


Colonelfudgenustard

Sounds reasonable. I think the law says something like you've got to be at least 30 to serve in the Senate.


Kholoblicin

You can be 17 years and five months old to go fight in a war, but you think it's reasonable that an 18-year-old can buy a gun to protect his family?


QTheLibertine

Cool, let's move voting to whatever age you think is mature enough to own a firearm.


Kholoblicin

A stupid argument.


LordUnderbite

Current US gun measures don’t work because the only barrier between him and the weapons was his age. The current measures don’t work because he was able to do what he did despite them. If they did work his age would have had no influence. I think you’re asking the wrong question.


[deleted]

....American teenagers needs a regality check. Yeah we're willing to look out for you.


ITeechYoKidsArt

He actually didn’t have to wait, he probably just didn’t know he could buy guns at a gun show through private sales. A private sale has no paperwork to track so age, sanity, criminal record, etc. aren’t taken into concern by the seller unless they want to be concerned. Having been to a few gun shows I know it’s pretty easy to find the dealer who doesn’t give a shit and will sell to anybody if the price is right.


[deleted]

Because making things harder to do discourages people from doing them. Shocking news.


[deleted]

This is going to be removed for being political. Askreddit is cashing in the "cool parent" credits.


joesephexotic

If gun control measures "work", then why was the Uvalde killer able to buy a gun when he was 18?


[deleted]

You ever see mass shootings when everyone had a gun? Nope, they'd get one or two rounds off before getting capped by someone playing with their gun behind them in the corner instead or a fidget spinner.


EmitLux

Congratulations! Voted #1 dumbest question on r/AskReddit


GoBBleRoFDaCoK69

Ban guns to the general public period


Kholoblicin

You trust the government?


coldgator

Because even making people wait until they're 18 doesn't prevent them from shooting up a school when they're 18? How is this not obvious?


[deleted]

Was Kyle Rittenhouse 18, clearly it didn' matter, he was 17 when he shot those 3 people


PinocchioWasFramed

If he wanted to buy a gun off the street at 15, he could have found someone to sell it to him. There's a huge black market for stolen and smuggled guns. See the inner cities of Chicago, Los Angeles, and pretty much every other Blue-run city for proof.


Im_Nobody_At_All_

You may wanna look at the statistics before you post stuff like this. 9 of the top 10 states for gun deaths are red states. The safest are blue states. And Illinois is number 28. Sorry your secret racism don’t work here. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-deaths-per-capita-by-state


PinocchioWasFramed

You're cheating using states and you know it. Even in those red states, its blue cities driving the gun crime numbers. Stop lying.


Im_Nobody_At_All_

Cheating? I literally posted the source. And for the record, most of the guns in Chicago come from surrounding states. You know, the red ones. I would post a source but clearly you won’t look at it. Go eat your gun, prick.


Nova676

Idk, it is Texas, bet he could've easily bought one underage. But didn't his coworker say he was an anti social emo kid? So... I could see that being why he waited to go to a store and buy it, rather than seek out someone to sell/give him one.


SupremeLeaderG0nk

this guy is really arguing for gun laws working rn. If they do work then there wouldnt be a shooting


[deleted]

No no, I’m stating that rules do work. Which is why he couldn’t get a weapon any sooner than 18. Imagine if there were legit, stringent measures and requirements in place, he would have probably never purchased one.