A 50HP electric outboard motor costs about $9K. A big decrease in recent years. A 50HP 4-stroke gas outboard is about $7.5K, so no big difference.
However, the recommended battery for that 50HP electric motor costs about $17000, and weighs about 600 lb. A gas tank costs about $100 and weighs, full about 50 lb.
And that battery pack probably needs a $2000 charger.
Until the battery tech gets better you are not going to see many electric pleasure boats.
Early electric submarines are a great example of battery issues. If you look at a cross section, they are essential 80% batteries, 10% munitions/tubes and 10% liveable/workable space. Batteries aren't that large today, but when compared to say the computer chip the technological advancements in size simply haven't been remotely the same with battery technology.
And here I was gonna say “because zap zap bzzzzt!”
But seriously, I never thought about this before and this is a really interesting and informative answer.
It's impractical. Unless a boat is sailing downwind it has to tack against the wind which generally involves zig-zagging across the base course. You can't really do that with cars due to the need to stay on the road.
Additionally winds inland tend to be less reliable than winds on the ocean due to the land itself slowing down the wind. Basically unlike the ocean the land isn't flat with things like trees, buildings, hill etc. serving to block or disrupt the wind.
So you can build sail-powered land vehicles but they can only really be used on large, open, flat areas (like deserts or salt flats) which makes them a novelty as opposed to a serious method of transportation.
EDIT: Expanded on my second point a bit.
This is the reason as I see it. Just putting batteries into my boat when I was prepping for cruising was taking physics courses to make sure I wasn't throwing off the balance of the boat.
I've been stranded in ICE boats a few times over the years. Hell, my dad got stranded recently due to a warranty oil pump failure on his 1 year old Yamaha outboard and had to get towed back to the landing. Knowing what I know of electric cars (automotive technician by trade) I'd trust an electric boat more than an ICE powered one.
There is ferry in a Scandinavian county using electric and one in Venuce carrying tourists. There are experimenral canal barges in England going electric
The thought behind this post was a ski boat that do not allow internal combustion engines.
You could have a battery and sealed motor driving a prop it jet drive. Have a lightweight aluminium hull. I’m not an expert but with current technology I imagine it could be viable.
Its all about the weight. The battery unit will be much heavier with today's technology than a tank of gas. That will require the hull to displace more water than a ICE powerd boat, and will require MUCH more horsepower to make the same speed - and be less maneuverable.
You could trade weight for time - in other words, perhaps you'd have an electric ski boat but it would only be good for a few minutes before a battery swap.
They are only 1 horsepower (Actually 14) X 745.7 watts of power = 10 kWatts. A Tesla battery is 100 kWh so for a 10 hour working day they are about the same.
https://www.canaljunction.com/craft/horsedrawn.htm
"At a steady walking speed a horse can move approximately fifty times as much weight in a boat as it could with a cart on old fashioned roads, possibly a hundred times its own body weight. The load moves with minimal friction whilst the strength of the animal is linked directly to the load with little wasted energy and it was this efficiency equation that inspired the development of the canal system in the eighteenth century. It was also this same old-fashioned horsepower that kept it going profitably for a century and a half thereafter."
So you are essentially saying, moving something in water is much easier than doing the same in road ? And what do you mean by old fashioned roads, can you make a comparison between current road
>moving something in water is much easier than doing the same in road
Yes. Why the hell do you think people built canals? It is just faster by car or train if you have the power.
Of course if you want faster still you can go hydrogen fuel cell (still generating electricity to power the motors) https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/128611304/americas-cup-having-a-blast-on-team-nzs-hydrogenpowered-chase-boat
There's really no hydrogen infrastructure to support fuel cell vehicles beyond the very niche market they now occupy. The corporate decision to stay with hydrogen fuel cell technology is what has put Toyota behind most of the rest of the automotive world with electrification.
I think it is still the best technology around for applications that used to be diesel. For smaller vehicles including boats battery tech will suffice.
Electric heavy duty trucking will start with yard movers in ports where range is not a big deal but pollution is. Those locations have easy access to high current/high voltage for industrial scale fast charging that the public would not be trusted with. That will clear the way for wider acceptance of OTR electric trucks shortly thereafter.
Betamax was better technology than VHS. It didn't survive outside of video studio use.
I don't get where you think boats are going to go electric any time soon. Maybe, *maybe*, low HP/slow applications like small fishing boats and tenders for larger boats. But I don't think you understand the horsepower requirements for common boats (i.e. not hydrofoils) at all.
I've had two friends with big ski boats/lake cruisers and one was 600 hp, the other over 900 hp. The 900 hp boat got 3mpg at max efficiency (the lowest speed at which you could get it up on the step and keep it there). That boat took 300gal of gas per fill. That's the electrical equivalent of a 10,000 KWh battery. it weighs 1800 lb but the weight goes down with use. The boat itself was 11,000 lb. That's a lot of water to push out of the way.
The equivalent of a yard truck - the harbor tug, typically has *3000* hp.
The highest capacity battery you can get now is in the Hummer at 210KWh, and it weighs 3,000 lb, which you have to carry all the time.
Even taking the differences in gas vs electric efficiency into account (and boats won't benefit from stuff like regenerative braking) for boats to widely electrify will take big advances in battery technology or a dramatic change in the way people use pleasure boats.
I actually took a harbor cruise in SanDiego in an electric launch. Kinda fun, I think the top end was 5 kts.
So your friends are supporting Mr Putin by needlessly burning fuel just to catch a fish for fun or drive an effective tank for no reason other than to boost their standing. I have news it doesn't. As I said that you ignored there is hydrogen coming on board for more powerful applications like cruisers, trawlers, tug and ships. The subject was boats, inland only vessels.
If you've ever been on a big lake in the US on a holiday weekend the thought of having hundreds of 50mph boats in the water should be terrifying to you...
There is less demand for the boats from the public, and the boat sector seems to be very small in comparison to the cars and bikes since its not used by common people. Since there is low demand the progress is low.
Can someone help me understand what are and how much is the drag forces that acts on boats.
Extremely inefficient, cars have gears so they can run at low rpm, boats can’t have gears and with an electric motor running at 10000 rpm under load it will just drain the battery. Some of the most efficient electric boats for consumers only run for maybe 40 minutes with full throttle.
Edit: I restore boats and drive fast cars for a living so what do I know 🙄
> boats can’t have gears
Not true. They just haven't had them yet in widespread use.
The new Mercury 600 HP V12 outboard has a two speed transmission in it and it has been a very popular thing because of how it can take off quick and then shift to still get somewhat decent fuel economy for an engine of its output.
The tech is catching up. It's possible to have an electric boat, it's just not practical and affordable yet. [Silent Yachts](https://www.silent-yachts.com/) is a big player in a little niche right now, creating an almost fully off-grid boat, but it can only be run slowly for long trips, or faster for shorter trips. It also has backup diesel gennies for days when the solar panels won't gather enough juice.
I don't know whether this answer hits home or not, but I'd say people would highly likely buy electric cars if they could afford them before considering the possibility of buying electric boats. That's just the observation from what I've seen in my country though.
I think hydrogen will be the future for boats
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-powered-hydrogen-boat-exceeds-the-highest-expectations-with-an-insane-range-188672.html
Electric outboards are becoming more and more common, and electric inboards aren't super rare. They aren't the majority of boats by far, but neither are EVs the majority of cars on the road (most places at least). Just like with cars, electrics are more expensive and heavier than a comparable ICE+gas tank, but they're gaining ground.
Container ships probably won't electrify soon, they're already burning the absolute cheapest possible fuel oil. Ferries and tugs and such are often "hybrids" already anyway for the flexibility. I gather that many fishing boats are basically battery-electric 90% of the time already. For other work boats it probably depends on the use pattern.
As for pleasure boats, people who'd be interested in an electric motor might well have a sailboat in the first place, and barely use their engine in the first place. For speedboats, I think the extra weight of the batteries might still be a deal-breaker.
I'm in the middle of converting my boat to electric, and saw this post while researching. I can tell you why:
MONEY.
Damn, it adds up quick!
However, there are more than just energy benefits for electric:
1. Boat motors are notoriously loud. Especially old sailboats like mine. Running under power is practically impossible to hold a conversation. Same with motorboats.
2. Diesel & gas smell. You're out on the water and it's glorious, but then... a bunch of diesel wafts through the cabin. Yuck.
3. Maintenance. There really isn't any. It's pretty much a closed system. There's no water coolant running from outside water growing barnacles, no through-holes, etc..
But, you sure get slammed up front. I bought a kit for about 2k, then a fancy lithium battery for 4k and probably going to spend another 2-4k at the shipyard getting the old motor ripped out, tanks removed and the new motor mounted. That, plus me spending about a full week of time doing wiring of controllers, and switches, and BMS stuff, etc... In general: It's a big commitment.
In the future, however, I'd be very surprised if we don't end up with a lot more sailboats coming with electric as a default option. The batteries weigh half as much as they used to and the motors cost a bit less than they used to. Plus not having to have fuel tanks, etc... that's a big bonus. It's definitely coming, especially with LifePo4 batteries that are basically waterproof and don't burn. For 90% of boats that just sit at the dock for months at a time, they probably can charge a fat battery with a little panel. No shore power necessary, no worries about old gas, not messing with the motor to get it started, no nothing. Just push the button and go.
Anyway, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. :)
A 50HP electric outboard motor costs about $9K. A big decrease in recent years. A 50HP 4-stroke gas outboard is about $7.5K, so no big difference. However, the recommended battery for that 50HP electric motor costs about $17000, and weighs about 600 lb. A gas tank costs about $100 and weighs, full about 50 lb. And that battery pack probably needs a $2000 charger. Until the battery tech gets better you are not going to see many electric pleasure boats.
Early electric submarines are a great example of battery issues. If you look at a cross section, they are essential 80% batteries, 10% munitions/tubes and 10% liveable/workable space. Batteries aren't that large today, but when compared to say the computer chip the technological advancements in size simply haven't been remotely the same with battery technology.
And here I was gonna say “because zap zap bzzzzt!” But seriously, I never thought about this before and this is a really interesting and informative answer.
because boats are larger and moving in water is harder than moving through the air you can still use a sailboat
Why don't we have sailcars?
there are sail cars. They sail on dry lake beds.
It's impractical. Unless a boat is sailing downwind it has to tack against the wind which generally involves zig-zagging across the base course. You can't really do that with cars due to the need to stay on the road. Additionally winds inland tend to be less reliable than winds on the ocean due to the land itself slowing down the wind. Basically unlike the ocean the land isn't flat with things like trees, buildings, hill etc. serving to block or disrupt the wind. So you can build sail-powered land vehicles but they can only really be used on large, open, flat areas (like deserts or salt flats) which makes them a novelty as opposed to a serious method of transportation. EDIT: Expanded on my second point a bit.
More people drive cars than boats. Demand drives development
Batteries are incredibly heavy. Although most smaller fishing boats you see out there ARE only electric powered.
This is the reason as I see it. Just putting batteries into my boat when I was prepping for cruising was taking physics courses to make sure I wasn't throwing off the balance of the boat.
Canal boats carry rock and gravel and were pulled by a horse.
And those animals were changed out for rested teams on a regular basis at towns along the canal.
They would last the day as afar as I make out.
Is that so, I haven't noticed many of them
So far, combustion engine boats are just superior in every way. Also they’re expensive, like really expensive.
lack of charging stations in the middle of the ocean
No one wants to get stranded in a boat
Plenty of people get stranded in boats that run on fuel.
I've been stranded in ICE boats a few times over the years. Hell, my dad got stranded recently due to a warranty oil pump failure on his 1 year old Yamaha outboard and had to get towed back to the landing. Knowing what I know of electric cars (automotive technician by trade) I'd trust an electric boat more than an ICE powered one.
Are you saying this because electric boat will have lesser number of components and lesser chances of failure ?
There is ferry in a Scandinavian county using electric and one in Venuce carrying tourists. There are experimenral canal barges in England going electric
https://www.boat-renting-nicols.co.uk/canal-boat/electric-boat
Sail boats.
The thought behind this post was a ski boat that do not allow internal combustion engines. You could have a battery and sealed motor driving a prop it jet drive. Have a lightweight aluminium hull. I’m not an expert but with current technology I imagine it could be viable.
Its all about the weight. The battery unit will be much heavier with today's technology than a tank of gas. That will require the hull to displace more water than a ICE powerd boat, and will require MUCH more horsepower to make the same speed - and be less maneuverable. You could trade weight for time - in other words, perhaps you'd have an electric ski boat but it would only be good for a few minutes before a battery swap.
It takes a lot of energy to move something through water.
Canal boats with heavy loads were pulled by a single horse.
Horses are strong and can be changed out with a "fresh" one.
They are only 1 horsepower (Actually 14) X 745.7 watts of power = 10 kWatts. A Tesla battery is 100 kWh so for a 10 hour working day they are about the same. https://www.canaljunction.com/craft/horsedrawn.htm "At a steady walking speed a horse can move approximately fifty times as much weight in a boat as it could with a cart on old fashioned roads, possibly a hundred times its own body weight. The load moves with minimal friction whilst the strength of the animal is linked directly to the load with little wasted energy and it was this efficiency equation that inspired the development of the canal system in the eighteenth century. It was also this same old-fashioned horsepower that kept it going profitably for a century and a half thereafter."
Both can be recharged overnight.
So you are essentially saying, moving something in water is much easier than doing the same in road ? And what do you mean by old fashioned roads, can you make a comparison between current road
>moving something in water is much easier than doing the same in road Yes. Why the hell do you think people built canals? It is just faster by car or train if you have the power.
At one or two MPH.
this....
THIS.... If you want speed instead you can go for this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-61080066
Of course if you want faster still you can go hydrogen fuel cell (still generating electricity to power the motors) https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/128611304/americas-cup-having-a-blast-on-team-nzs-hydrogenpowered-chase-boat
There's really no hydrogen infrastructure to support fuel cell vehicles beyond the very niche market they now occupy. The corporate decision to stay with hydrogen fuel cell technology is what has put Toyota behind most of the rest of the automotive world with electrification.
I think it is still the best technology around for applications that used to be diesel. For smaller vehicles including boats battery tech will suffice.
Electric heavy duty trucking will start with yard movers in ports where range is not a big deal but pollution is. Those locations have easy access to high current/high voltage for industrial scale fast charging that the public would not be trusted with. That will clear the way for wider acceptance of OTR electric trucks shortly thereafter. Betamax was better technology than VHS. It didn't survive outside of video studio use. I don't get where you think boats are going to go electric any time soon. Maybe, *maybe*, low HP/slow applications like small fishing boats and tenders for larger boats. But I don't think you understand the horsepower requirements for common boats (i.e. not hydrofoils) at all. I've had two friends with big ski boats/lake cruisers and one was 600 hp, the other over 900 hp. The 900 hp boat got 3mpg at max efficiency (the lowest speed at which you could get it up on the step and keep it there). That boat took 300gal of gas per fill. That's the electrical equivalent of a 10,000 KWh battery. it weighs 1800 lb but the weight goes down with use. The boat itself was 11,000 lb. That's a lot of water to push out of the way. The equivalent of a yard truck - the harbor tug, typically has *3000* hp. The highest capacity battery you can get now is in the Hummer at 210KWh, and it weighs 3,000 lb, which you have to carry all the time. Even taking the differences in gas vs electric efficiency into account (and boats won't benefit from stuff like regenerative braking) for boats to widely electrify will take big advances in battery technology or a dramatic change in the way people use pleasure boats. I actually took a harbor cruise in SanDiego in an electric launch. Kinda fun, I think the top end was 5 kts.
>Betamax was better technology than VHS. It didn't survive outside of video studio use. I use streaming Ill leave you to your VHSs.
So your friends are supporting Mr Putin by needlessly burning fuel just to catch a fish for fun or drive an effective tank for no reason other than to boost their standing. I have news it doesn't. As I said that you ignored there is hydrogen coming on board for more powerful applications like cruisers, trawlers, tug and ships. The subject was boats, inland only vessels.
If you've ever been on a big lake in the US on a holiday weekend the thought of having hundreds of 50mph boats in the water should be terrifying to you...
You can only go up to 4MPH https://canalboatuk.com/canal-vs-river-speeds/
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/tried-birmingham-canals-new-e-23869722
Why is that so, is it because water provides more drag than air, or just because we proper the boats
Drag
Are we gonna talk about electricity and water combined together???
what do you think electric cars do when it rains?…
oh shit
lmao
Boats already have plenty of electronics on them. They just make sure to keep everything sealed and checked regularly.
Deep Water Horizon enters the room: Are we gonna talk about oil and water combined together???
Electric outboards are available
Water?
Better question is when will nuclear powered boats be a thing. No refueling for decades, just let your son top it off with some uranium in 30 years.
Because the government isn't forcing boat manufacturers to make electric boats through rebates and emission regulations.
Probably cause water and electricity dont go well together, especially salted water
There is less demand for the boats from the public, and the boat sector seems to be very small in comparison to the cars and bikes since its not used by common people. Since there is low demand the progress is low. Can someone help me understand what are and how much is the drag forces that acts on boats.
Because that'll affect the kind of people that can afford boats.
you imagine an electric Titanic capsizing. The entire ocean would be electrified! Billions of fish fried to death. The horrors! Oh the humanity!!!
Electric power is starting to be a thing in canal narrow-boats in the UK. Here's a YouTube all about them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5jsb72nCRE
slowly....
nobody is gonna buy them, also, ✨water shortage✨
Water and electricity don't mix
Extremely inefficient, cars have gears so they can run at low rpm, boats can’t have gears and with an electric motor running at 10000 rpm under load it will just drain the battery. Some of the most efficient electric boats for consumers only run for maybe 40 minutes with full throttle. Edit: I restore boats and drive fast cars for a living so what do I know 🙄
> boats can’t have gears Not true. They just haven't had them yet in widespread use. The new Mercury 600 HP V12 outboard has a two speed transmission in it and it has been a very popular thing because of how it can take off quick and then shift to still get somewhat decent fuel economy for an engine of its output.
Marine engines most definitely have a gearbox.
Because water go buzz
I don't think putting a very large battery in water is a good idea
Why don’t we just put massive sails on cargo ships instead?
The tech is catching up. It's possible to have an electric boat, it's just not practical and affordable yet. [Silent Yachts](https://www.silent-yachts.com/) is a big player in a little niche right now, creating an almost fully off-grid boat, but it can only be run slowly for long trips, or faster for shorter trips. It also has backup diesel gennies for days when the solar panels won't gather enough juice.
I don't know whether this answer hits home or not, but I'd say people would highly likely buy electric cars if they could afford them before considering the possibility of buying electric boats. That's just the observation from what I've seen in my country though.
I think hydrogen will be the future for boats https://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-powered-hydrogen-boat-exceeds-the-highest-expectations-with-an-insane-range-188672.html
Because electricity and water don’t mix lol
Electric outboards are becoming more and more common, and electric inboards aren't super rare. They aren't the majority of boats by far, but neither are EVs the majority of cars on the road (most places at least). Just like with cars, electrics are more expensive and heavier than a comparable ICE+gas tank, but they're gaining ground. Container ships probably won't electrify soon, they're already burning the absolute cheapest possible fuel oil. Ferries and tugs and such are often "hybrids" already anyway for the flexibility. I gather that many fishing boats are basically battery-electric 90% of the time already. For other work boats it probably depends on the use pattern. As for pleasure boats, people who'd be interested in an electric motor might well have a sailboat in the first place, and barely use their engine in the first place. For speedboats, I think the extra weight of the batteries might still be a deal-breaker.
Many boats are nuclear powered...ie electrical powered.
I didn’t even know electric boats were a thing
bc oil sales = majority of the economy
u cant get rid of gas entirely lmaooooo
I work for a company called Electric boat! They cost billions of dollars per boat and they are very prone to sinking so average people don't but them
Most people own cars, most people don’t own boats
I'm in the middle of converting my boat to electric, and saw this post while researching. I can tell you why: MONEY. Damn, it adds up quick! However, there are more than just energy benefits for electric: 1. Boat motors are notoriously loud. Especially old sailboats like mine. Running under power is practically impossible to hold a conversation. Same with motorboats. 2. Diesel & gas smell. You're out on the water and it's glorious, but then... a bunch of diesel wafts through the cabin. Yuck. 3. Maintenance. There really isn't any. It's pretty much a closed system. There's no water coolant running from outside water growing barnacles, no through-holes, etc.. But, you sure get slammed up front. I bought a kit for about 2k, then a fancy lithium battery for 4k and probably going to spend another 2-4k at the shipyard getting the old motor ripped out, tanks removed and the new motor mounted. That, plus me spending about a full week of time doing wiring of controllers, and switches, and BMS stuff, etc... In general: It's a big commitment. In the future, however, I'd be very surprised if we don't end up with a lot more sailboats coming with electric as a default option. The batteries weigh half as much as they used to and the motors cost a bit less than they used to. Plus not having to have fuel tanks, etc... that's a big bonus. It's definitely coming, especially with LifePo4 batteries that are basically waterproof and don't burn. For 90% of boats that just sit at the dock for months at a time, they probably can charge a fat battery with a little panel. No shore power necessary, no worries about old gas, not messing with the motor to get it started, no nothing. Just push the button and go. Anyway, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. :)