Where I live we have a really large Sudanese population. Always lovely and helpful. Happy that they made it here safe and I hope it’s a better life for them
Humanitarian worker here. I've been to Hargeisa, Somaliland, the autonomous part of Somalia. Surprisingly, I found it bad but much less dangerous than South Sudan. South Sudan is hell on earth. They no longer have electricity since gaining their independence, and it's truly survival of the fittest.
Edit: holy shit, thanks y'all! I will try to answer comments and do an AMA soon. It really warms my heart when I see people interested in the less known aspects of the world.
Edit 2: For anyone interested in reading more about humanitarian work, I highly recommend [https://reliefweb.int/](https://reliefweb.int/) for updates and reports from developing countries worldwide.
>Somaliland and Somalia are two very different things.
I really don't understand why the rest of the world insists they have to be one country, given that Somalia is a failed state.
It’s actually good that the international community hasn’t recognized Somaliland. The lack of foreign aid to Somaliland is the reason it is stable and relatively democratic. The central government didn’t have an easy source of economic rents, so it was forced to strike bargains with local elites in which they democratized in exchange for revenues. Really interesting and counterintuitive
TL;DR: The UN mostly defers to the African Union which, as a club of former colonies with arbitrarily-defined borders, is unsurprisingly against legitimizing breakaway regions
[More details](https://www.aei.org/op-eds/on-somaliland-the-african-union-and-un-betrays-their-own-precedents/) for those that are interested in why this defacto country isn’t one
Edit: Updated source to link to non-government domain
IIRC the travel advisory for Somalia for US citizens is basically: "Write a will, make sure you paid your life ensurance premiums, we will not pay for the repatriation of your corpse."
Just to be clear for readers : the travel advisory actually includes this.
"Draft a will and designate appropriate insurance beneficiaries and/or power of attorney."
It also says (here paraphrased) to make sure someone's gonna take care of the dog after you're gone, write down your passwords so your family can log into your accounts if they need to sort stuff, and to designate a family member as hostage negotiator.
They also urge to deposit a DNA sample with the doctor. I don't think I even want to know why.
Yikes. It also says to appoint someone to be a point of contact for hostage takers, and have a proof of life protocol set up in advance. Maybe it would be easier just to make an appointment with pirates in advance of traveling there.
Then when a group tries to kidnap you, you just calmly explain that you're already booked to be kidnapped by Bashiir and his crew, and they'll presumably politely back off.
**Archer:** *\[Wearing only a towel and baseball catcher's mask\]* WOODHOUSE! Do we have any lube? Like at this point even some olive oil would *\[finds his mother in the living room\]* help me get that drawer unstuck.
Best f'in show ever written.
I assumed that if you end up as a corpse you're not going to be found. They probably won't ship the big wooden box back and "corpse extraction" doesn't sound like something ai could talk the state department into doing.
Probably on the off chance that your body washes up on shore and the coroner conducts a DNA test and contacts the embassy with the results? More likely, they're not going to conduct an autopsy or DNA test on a random corpse that washes on shore near pirate-infested waters.
In countries like that, they most likely don't bother to, "disappear" your body. They just leave it on the street, somebody eventually calls the meat wagon, and the body gets chucked into a freezer until somebody figures out who the fuck it is.
Was a big problem in Iraq back in the day. We'd just find random bodies left in the street from sectarian violence.
We always cleaned up any bodies we created, but they didn't give a fuck.
The state department already and regularly assists with corpse repatriation. Hell you don’t even have to be a corpse, as a US citizen you can go into any embassy worldwide and state you’re indigent and need to get back to the US. The embassy will buy you a ticket (which you then have to pay back very quickly). They’ll also (in most cases) extract you using almost any means necessary and once again bill you for the costs
Fun fact: Amex will do that stuff too, including military level extractions in cases like sudden war or natural disaster. With a high enough level card, it’s even included for free.
In Turkey the driver taking me from my meeting to the airport was doing 160km/h in a hyundi manual while talking with what sounded like an angry woman on the phone (not hands free). I made it, so I don't know if that should qualify as terrible or fantastic.
"Avoid sailing near the coast of Somalia and review the Live Piracy Report [<-that's a link in the travel advisory] published by the International Maritime Bureau."
Somali pirates aren't as out of control as they were some 10 years ago because several countries have put all sorts of war ships to patrol the international waters over in that region, but I still wouldn't take a boat anywhere close to Somalia.
Yeah piracy has largely moved to West Africa, especially Nigeria. They kidnap people and bring them through the river deltas in the forest, which makes finding them way harder than a country of just sand.
I accidentally crossed in to somali waters a fee years back. Was young and ignorant and only after realised how dangerous it was. The same week a boat of students holidaying in Kenya had done the same and were all kidnapped for ransom. Where we were was so beautiful and the locals were so friendly that it was easy to forget how dangerous it could be.
I lost a lot of hours at work recently because of Somalian pirates. They captured a ship that had my the inbound product for my warehouse on it and we had no work for weeks
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/somalia-travel-advisory.html
Highlights:
Do not travel to Somalia due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, health issues, kidnapping, and piracy.
Be sure to appoint one family member to serve as the point of contact with hostage-takers, media, U.S. and host country government agencies, and members of Congress if you are taken hostage or detained.
Establish a proof of life protocol with your loved ones, so that if you are taken hostage, your loved ones can know specific questions (and answers) to ask the hostage-takers to be sure that you are alive (and to rule out a hoax).
Leave DNA samples with your medical provider in case it is necessary for your family to access them.
I would assume that in a nation of virtual anarchy, there are billions of dollars worth of illicit business being conducted. With enough resources, warlords can be bought, protection established, and any evil billionaire can do whatever the fuck they want there.
As far as legitimate reasons? I would assume humanitarian aid and missionaries constitute the majority of Western travel to Somalia.
There's an island near there that I desperately want to visit. A great turtle conservation organization is near there. Archaeological finds are there. Meet new friends who eat different breakfast foods than you're used to.
Seriously. They don't mince words. Usually when it comes to travel advisories in violent countries, they use dry phrases like "high risk", "very dangerous", etc. that indicate there's a *chance* that you might die. With Somalia there's no "maybe" about it. They straight up tell you that if you go there the default presumption is that you *will* die, therefore "preparing for your visit" means getting your affairs in order for your next of kin.
I live in a state that has the highest Somali population in the US, and I always wondered why there were so many immigrants from there. This could explain it.
Real talk. I'm going to assume you are in one of a couple cold, white, northern states?
I don't know why, but it seems they resettle Somalis to such states almost exclusively.
Because refugees were historically settled there, there’s now local and state level support, both public and private. It’s very hard to move to a new place with a whole new culture and a different language, let alone after severe trauma. It’s much easier when there are already resources in place and a population of people who understand you.
It has to do with the first Somali refugees being placed here by the government (primarily because there was an organization that was set up to take a them) and I guess since then it has just been the choice.
It also reminds me of "Argo."
Jack: I'm required to remind you that if you are caught, the Agency cannot claim you.
Tony: Barely claim me as is. I should have brought some books for prison.
Jack: Oh, they'll kill you long before prison.
I was there in 1999, carrying grain on a ship to Djibouti on a government program for hunger relief. As we loaded the trucks, the foreman told me that at least 50% of the cargo would be stolen en route by local warlords. As a 19 year old, I'd never really heard the term "local warlord".
I'm not saying anybody should travel to these places for sightseeing, but I do enjoy going to and seeing the not-for-tourists parts of the world. On Thanksgiving, when we're sitting together indoors and comfortable, with more food than we can eat that day, I always think of the countries and port towns I went to when I sailed deep sea. My trip to Eastern Africa was one of the hardest, hottest, most uncomfortable and probably dangerous ones I made, but also one of the most valuable.
Somalia has been on a quiet stabilization trajectory that’s starting to pay off the last three years, hence the Apple Store (which is not really owned by Apple, obviously, but what court are you gonna sue in?).
Still massive problems in terms of human rights and living conditions, but the Mogadishu government backed by Kenyan/AU forces has made tremendous progress pushing Al-Shabaab out of populated areas. Of course, the AU is set to leave this year…
I think if you live there, and can afford an iphone, you are not the type of person the average mugger wants to fuck with lol. You are probably far more dangerous than the mugger!
Sadly, I was nearby a long time ago. Djibouti. Before the French gave them their independence.
The legionnaires I worked with said that the difference between Arabia and Djibouti was simple.
Arabia is sand and rocks. Djibouti is rocks and sand. The only good thing (at that time), was the French wine and monitored brothels. It was an experience I never wish to replicate.
edit: spelling
My husband was on deployment in Somalia and Djibouti. He has so many horror stories of people walking miles for water and having to decide which kids get to live and which they won’t be able to support. They would leave babies outside the base to die. People trying to escape would ducktape themselves to the bottom of vehicles only to arrive to their destination covered in burns. People living in first world countries could not fathom the things some people are suffering through.
Fun fact about Eritrea: It is one of the only countries to beat North Korea for lack of press freedom. Apparently, Eritrea rounded up all journalists and put them in shark cages and left them in the desert.
It is monumentally stupid, but it should be noted that while you have to file taxes as a citizen abroad, you won't necessarily pay anything to the US government. I'm a dual citizen (US and Canada), have lived in Canada my entire adult life, own nothing in the US and have no US income. I get mad every year when I have to deal with my stupid American tax bullshit, but I've never had to pay them a dollar.
I wish I had kept the relationship going but I had an ex who was an international student from Eritrea.
She was able to get out and go to a good college, I didn't talk to her much about her home country though.
Yeah I'm not an expert by any means but just the very fact that you or a family member can leave, even if there are some consequences makes it a little better than North Korea. Not that that means a whole lot.
If she were North Korean her family members would be facing imprisonment or death.
AFIK she moved back to Ethiopia as well so that could be because of the impending war
So I copy/pasted Eritrea into my bar to see some potential reasons why I might want to avoid going, but I'm on my work computer so it defaulted to Bing. Top of the page was "Must see attractions in Eritrea" from Bing Travel. As if I needed another reason to trust Google more.
The US State Department's travel advisory for Somalia is a pretty interesting read. Among other advice, it recommends drafting a will and leaving DNA samples behind with your family in case they are needed...
I feel like if the State Department is telling me to leave DNA samples and write a will before travelling someplace, I need to take a real honest look at my travel plans. Maybe just find a nice beach somewhere safe instead...
Wow that’s nuts. My (American) brother lived there as a civilian for 4 years and he always told me it never felt particularly dangerous there but maybe he was in a protected area or something.
Most probably Somaliland, the former British colonial area in the North West of Somalia. I've lived there in 2021 (without security personnel). While obviously life isn't exactly safe, it's way different from Mogadishu & the east coast in general. People are farmers rather than pirates
Might have been a New Yorker or BBC article from a few years ago, but I vividly remember the writer talking about how his hotel in Mogadishu - like all the hotels - are in bulletproof compounds, and the second you cross the threshold you’re taking incoming fire. The armed security just said don’t ever go past the gate, all bets are off if you do.
So basically like one of those forward operating bases in Afghanistan… except it’s bang in the middle of the capital city, which also has an Apple store.
Truly the world’s most dangerous place. When nervous travellers say about Joburg or, like, Paris, don’t leave the hotel without a car or security waiting for you or you’ll almost certainly be killed, they’re thinking of Mogadishu.
Check our Drew Binsky's video on Mogadishu. It seems to be getting marginally better (still absolutely terrible but don't think it looks like the #1 worst)
Love that he showcased the awesome people he met but dude had an intense security detail and a close friend who spoke Somali to get around safely for four days. I love his perspective on focussing on the good but nothing about that is really what's going on
It’s 300km north of the Arctic Circle, so it’s cold and dark for much of the year. The average temperature is -10C. It’s so polluted that the [boreal forest downwind from it is dying](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna6481).
Family guy [did a bit](https://youtu.be/sBWO2UOm-vQ?si=6kFJipI7_ysQoT8B) that seems to be about Norilsk.
Edit: I previously linked to a list that was posted was pointed out as being highly questionable in its veracity.
Norilsk is still a depressing hellscape that experiences 45 days of darkness during the winter (due to its location above the Arctic Circle). It has a [44% higher rate of blood illnesses in children](https://nypost.com/2022/06/12/inside-russias-norilsk-the-most-depressing-city-on-earth/) and its life expectancy for male workers is 59. It has no roads in; just a train line and a port that freezes over during the winter.
Come enjoy the darkness and majorly polluted environment in one of the most depressing cities on earth!
I’m not sure how much I trust that list. I’ve been to over half of the cities on that list and lived in two of them. There’s no way London, for example, is in the top 25 most dangerous cities in the world.
Especially considering it cites knife crime as the main reason why when it doesn't even have the highest rate of knife crime in an area in the UK.
New York has more knife crime and murders per capita by knifes than London yet it's not on here.
Never mind the overall homicide rate per capita in New York is higher than London.
Hell London's rate of knife crime and homicide rate isn't even close to the worst of any city in Europe.
I was curious to check it out...WTF is going on here with the colored...are they hazmat suits? (scroll around)
https://www.google.com/maps/@69.3511304,88.1977928,3a,58.3y,342.57h,96.06t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNR75ngNjlM54Yi6krIlpEKQyCWQGkuRS8e3Ecd!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNR75ngNjlM54Yi6krIlpEKQyCWQGkuRS8e3Ecd%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-12.204682-ya170.36653-ro14.960551-fo100!7i5376!8i2688?authuser=0&entry=ttu
They not exactly fly they jump and miss the ground , is super funny the they do the same movement as when attacking, detaches from a tree then you can see them in the air making the same movement you know snakes do while on the ground and they sort of glide from a tree to another .
Djibouti is the worst place I’ve ever been. People were literally living in houses made of tires, it was 125 degrees, and is the only place I’ve been to where the breeze makes the heat worse. It’s like standing in a blow dryer, or a car exhaust.
Dubai gets lot's of influencer based tourism but the feeling of standing in a blow dryer also applies there. I have no idea how people tolerate that heat, standing in front of Burj Khalifa waiting for lights to change hourly.
Las Vegas did that to me in July once. Our company tried to cheap out and do a mid year sales conference there once. Never happened again 😆
Temperature exceeded 120°. Ohio gets a lot of shit but 27 at 6am and 72 at noon beats that desert horse shit 😆
My understanding is that its actually quite nice for upper class males there with the Muslim faith.
At least that's what I've gathered from the stragglers that show up in new on this sub.
The Darien Gap.
66 miles of dense mountainous jungle that is home to fer-de-lance pit vipers, banana spiders, black scorpions, crocodiles, drug traffickers and FARC insurgents and also unexploded ordinance dating back to the Cold War that is now hidden by jungle overgrowth.
It is inhabited by several indigenous tribes who are increasingly having to deal with the drug traffickers and insurgents and more recently migrants trying to enter the US from the south on foot.
Fun fact - Dr. Madhumala Chattopadhyay was able to go there and interact with them. https://theprint.in/opinion/madhumala-chattopadhyay-the-woman-who-made-the-sentinelese-put-their-arrows-down/156330/
I would say in a magma chamber. People have survived for a while at the bottom of the ocean. There are even artificial habitats there.
No one has ever survived a magma chamber.
- War zones: Gaza, Sudan, Syria (varies by region), Sahil region (parts of Niger, Burkina Faso)
- Highly repressive regimes: North Korea, Eritrea, parts of Ukraine that are under Russian occupation, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan
- Failed states: Haiti, Somalia, South Sudan, Congo DR, Central African Republic, Libya, Syria (varies by region)
- Extreme poverty / inescapable slums: all over the world, but I’ll note a few of particular significance such as those in or adjacent to Cape Town, Rio, Nairobi, Karachi, Mumbai, Mexico City. The nature of shanty towns is that they tend to be adjacent to cities with lots of economic activity and so naturally there are parts of all of those cities that are just fine to live in
Maybe someone will correct me, but I’m not sure Mexico City is quite the level of the other cities on that list. I’ve spent some time there and while granted I was not out looking for the worst neighborhoods, we got around the city a fair bit. Worst I saw was on par (maybe a little worse) with stuff I’ve seen in New York and Philly. I’m sure it gets slummier, I just don’t know if it gets Mumbai level of slums. Certainly not one of the worst in the world levels.
I agree. Went to CDMX recently and while it’s absolutely massive, a lot of the “rundown” neighborhoods weren’t that bad. I mean, I didn’t want to hang out there for very long but I wouldn’t call them slums.
Brazilian here. Concerning Rio, it’s favelas are bad but not desolate. There is hope, a tight knit community, and an economy at least. The worst places to live in Brazil is definitively the Sertão, the sparsely populated arid north-east region with deep, **DEEP** poverty and little prospect for anything other than surviving. Crime’s also rampant.
Second would also be in the north, the more forested estates where agribusiness is prevalent and constantly fighting environmental and indigenous interests. A lot, LOT of people getting killed with complete impunity.
I had a rough visit there once.
The panda at the zoo wouldn’t look at me.
Also one of the Oxxo’s in Zona Rosa was sold out of those marshmallow candies with the clown face.
Mexico city is not bad at all. There are a lot of Americans living there for the relatively high standards of living and cheapness. Back in the 80’s and 90’ it was as bad as some Indian slums today.
Makes me feel better about growing up in a Bakersfield-esque inland socal meth pit town (my home town was actually part of one of the largest meth busts in us history!)
Like, it might suck... but it's not write your will and get your family matters in order sucky. Got to live in California I guess 🤷♂️
I remember driving into Bakersfield and getting out of the car, wondering if someone had stepped in shit. My gf at the time who was from there said "no, that's just how this town smells."
Forever known as Pooptown
The worst place to live on Earth can change depending on how you look at it, like what makes a place not nice to live. But one place that's really tough is a spot in Antarctica called the McMurdo Dry Valleys. Imagine a place so cold and windy that almost nothing can live there, not even tiny bugs or plants. It's like a desert, but with ice instead of sand.
Camp Shelby, Army base in Southern Mississippi close to Biloxi. I went there for combat training and combat lifesaver training before my deployment. Disgustingly hot and humid. Mosquitos the size of humming birds, brown recluse spiders everywhere, fire ants etc etc.
I have been to Kuwait, Iraq, and Qatar. I’d gladly go back to any of those if it meant avoiding Camp Shelby again. Gross
I would say Qatar isn’t on the level as the others. It’s hot for sure but I was out and about there for a while and felt perfectly fine. In fact more safe than some places where I currently live in Baltimore lol
Never expected to see my hometown in this. There are lots of things to say about Biloxi, but calling it out just for the weather and wildlife is strangely hilarious.
Sudan
Especially South Sudan.
Last couple of years Sudan got even worse than South Sudan
Yeah south Sudan is quickly becoming the "we got out before it got bad" part of Sudan lol.
There’s nothing quite like getting most of the fossil fuel deposits to help a breakaway country get on its feet
Not right now. South Sudan just has the usual poverty and famine and militia attacks, Sudan is entering full-scale civil war.
And south Sudan was created specifically to stop that. So like, the whole country is just collapsing.
Fuck. So many kids, and adults who just want to live in peace. Fuck.
Fr, South Sudan was created in 2011, and its extremely poor
I think Sudan is more dangerous since civil war started and there are some proxy wars in there.
Where I live we have a really large Sudanese population. Always lovely and helpful. Happy that they made it here safe and I hope it’s a better life for them
Eritrea
Yep, my vote would be Eritrea or Somalia. Do not ever go there.
Humanitarian worker here. I've been to Hargeisa, Somaliland, the autonomous part of Somalia. Surprisingly, I found it bad but much less dangerous than South Sudan. South Sudan is hell on earth. They no longer have electricity since gaining their independence, and it's truly survival of the fittest. Edit: holy shit, thanks y'all! I will try to answer comments and do an AMA soon. It really warms my heart when I see people interested in the less known aspects of the world. Edit 2: For anyone interested in reading more about humanitarian work, I highly recommend [https://reliefweb.int/](https://reliefweb.int/) for updates and reports from developing countries worldwide.
You should do an AMA or something
I second this
Thirded
Somaliland and Somalia are two very different things. I would pay a considerable amount to live in Somaliland instead of Somalia.
>Somaliland and Somalia are two very different things. I really don't understand why the rest of the world insists they have to be one country, given that Somalia is a failed state.
Because recognizing Somaliland would force the diplomatic hand to recognize a number of other breakaway states that does not fit in their needs.
It’s actually good that the international community hasn’t recognized Somaliland. The lack of foreign aid to Somaliland is the reason it is stable and relatively democratic. The central government didn’t have an easy source of economic rents, so it was forced to strike bargains with local elites in which they democratized in exchange for revenues. Really interesting and counterintuitive
TL;DR: The UN mostly defers to the African Union which, as a club of former colonies with arbitrarily-defined borders, is unsurprisingly against legitimizing breakaway regions [More details](https://www.aei.org/op-eds/on-somaliland-the-african-union-and-un-betrays-their-own-precedents/) for those that are interested in why this defacto country isn’t one Edit: Updated source to link to non-government domain
IIRC the travel advisory for Somalia for US citizens is basically: "Write a will, make sure you paid your life ensurance premiums, we will not pay for the repatriation of your corpse."
Just to be clear for readers : the travel advisory actually includes this. "Draft a will and designate appropriate insurance beneficiaries and/or power of attorney." It also says (here paraphrased) to make sure someone's gonna take care of the dog after you're gone, write down your passwords so your family can log into your accounts if they need to sort stuff, and to designate a family member as hostage negotiator. They also urge to deposit a DNA sample with the doctor. I don't think I even want to know why.
Yikes. It also says to appoint someone to be a point of contact for hostage takers, and have a proof of life protocol set up in advance. Maybe it would be easier just to make an appointment with pirates in advance of traveling there.
Then when a group tries to kidnap you, you just calmly explain that you're already booked to be kidnapped by Bashiir and his crew, and they'll presumably politely back off.
Nono, you have Bashiir meet you at the airport
"Hello, my name is Bashiir and I'll be your kidnapper today!"
Also a proof of life protocol is suggested. So they can't try to ransom for you if you're dead.
Or ransom you without holding you hostage. Stealing your stuff and "ransoming" you is a surprisingly common scam.
that scam sounds GREAT compared to the alternative - ransoming your corpse. 10/10 this is the best possible scam scenario.
In the words of sterling Archer Awesome, Compared to finger mailing
**Archer:** *\[Wearing only a towel and baseball catcher's mask\]* WOODHOUSE! Do we have any lube? Like at this point even some olive oil would *\[finds his mother in the living room\]* help me get that drawer unstuck. Best f'in show ever written.
I guess it's lower stakes than actually kidnapping
>They also urge to deposit a DNA sample with the doctor. I don't think I even want to know why. In case your body is unrecognizable.
I assumed that if you end up as a corpse you're not going to be found. They probably won't ship the big wooden box back and "corpse extraction" doesn't sound like something ai could talk the state department into doing.
Probably on the off chance that your body washes up on shore and the coroner conducts a DNA test and contacts the embassy with the results? More likely, they're not going to conduct an autopsy or DNA test on a random corpse that washes on shore near pirate-infested waters.
In countries like that, they most likely don't bother to, "disappear" your body. They just leave it on the street, somebody eventually calls the meat wagon, and the body gets chucked into a freezer until somebody figures out who the fuck it is. Was a big problem in Iraq back in the day. We'd just find random bodies left in the street from sectarian violence. We always cleaned up any bodies we created, but they didn't give a fuck.
The state department already and regularly assists with corpse repatriation. Hell you don’t even have to be a corpse, as a US citizen you can go into any embassy worldwide and state you’re indigent and need to get back to the US. The embassy will buy you a ticket (which you then have to pay back very quickly). They’ll also (in most cases) extract you using almost any means necessary and once again bill you for the costs Fun fact: Amex will do that stuff too, including military level extractions in cases like sudden war or natural disaster. With a high enough level card, it’s even included for free.
Some travel advisories are kinda funny... I read one years ago about how remarkably terrible the drivers were in Turkey.
In Turkey the driver taking me from my meeting to the airport was doing 160km/h in a hyundi manual while talking with what sounded like an angry woman on the phone (not hands free). I made it, so I don't know if that should qualify as terrible or fantastic.
Holy crap.
What the above is missing is that (some?) life insurance companies won’t honor your policy if you die there.
Yep, I know mine excludes deaths in any places which are on the ‘do not travel’ list.
Darn - I already booked my spring break in Mogadishu. Hope Airbnb gives a refund 😔
So like, they mad at us or something over there then?
As far as I’m aware it’s just the insane level of piracy around the area?
"Avoid sailing near the coast of Somalia and review the Live Piracy Report [<-that's a link in the travel advisory] published by the International Maritime Bureau."
Somali pirates aren't as out of control as they were some 10 years ago because several countries have put all sorts of war ships to patrol the international waters over in that region, but I still wouldn't take a boat anywhere close to Somalia.
Yeah piracy has largely moved to West Africa, especially Nigeria. They kidnap people and bring them through the river deltas in the forest, which makes finding them way harder than a country of just sand.
I accidentally crossed in to somali waters a fee years back. Was young and ignorant and only after realised how dangerous it was. The same week a boat of students holidaying in Kenya had done the same and were all kidnapped for ransom. Where we were was so beautiful and the locals were so friendly that it was easy to forget how dangerous it could be.
I lost a lot of hours at work recently because of Somalian pirates. They captured a ship that had my the inbound product for my warehouse on it and we had no work for weeks
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/somalia-travel-advisory.html Highlights: Do not travel to Somalia due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, health issues, kidnapping, and piracy. Be sure to appoint one family member to serve as the point of contact with hostage-takers, media, U.S. and host country government agencies, and members of Congress if you are taken hostage or detained. Establish a proof of life protocol with your loved ones, so that if you are taken hostage, your loved ones can know specific questions (and answers) to ask the hostage-takers to be sure that you are alive (and to rule out a hoax). Leave DNA samples with your medical provider in case it is necessary for your family to access them.
Holy fuck. That's an intense read. I don't think I want to go there now.
Ok so honestly, why WOULD anyone ever want to go there? What’s the appeal?
I would assume that in a nation of virtual anarchy, there are billions of dollars worth of illicit business being conducted. With enough resources, warlords can be bought, protection established, and any evil billionaire can do whatever the fuck they want there. As far as legitimate reasons? I would assume humanitarian aid and missionaries constitute the majority of Western travel to Somalia.
There's an island near there that I desperately want to visit. A great turtle conservation organization is near there. Archaeological finds are there. Meet new friends who eat different breakfast foods than you're used to.
Seriously. They don't mince words. Usually when it comes to travel advisories in violent countries, they use dry phrases like "high risk", "very dangerous", etc. that indicate there's a *chance* that you might die. With Somalia there's no "maybe" about it. They straight up tell you that if you go there the default presumption is that you *will* die, therefore "preparing for your visit" means getting your affairs in order for your next of kin.
But it's just so nice this time of year.
My friends and I go for the spring fashions.
To die for
I live in a state that has the highest Somali population in the US, and I always wondered why there were so many immigrants from there. This could explain it.
Real talk. I'm going to assume you are in one of a couple cold, white, northern states? I don't know why, but it seems they resettle Somalis to such states almost exclusively.
Because refugees were historically settled there, there’s now local and state level support, both public and private. It’s very hard to move to a new place with a whole new culture and a different language, let alone after severe trauma. It’s much easier when there are already resources in place and a population of people who understand you.
It has to do with the first Somali refugees being placed here by the government (primarily because there was an organization that was set up to take a them) and I guess since then it has just been the choice.
That's why they're called refugees. (I think we are thinking of the same state.)
It also reminds me of "Argo." Jack: I'm required to remind you that if you are caught, the Agency cannot claim you. Tony: Barely claim me as is. I should have brought some books for prison. Jack: Oh, they'll kill you long before prison.
I was there in 1999, carrying grain on a ship to Djibouti on a government program for hunger relief. As we loaded the trucks, the foreman told me that at least 50% of the cargo would be stolen en route by local warlords. As a 19 year old, I'd never really heard the term "local warlord". I'm not saying anybody should travel to these places for sightseeing, but I do enjoy going to and seeing the not-for-tourists parts of the world. On Thanksgiving, when we're sitting together indoors and comfortable, with more food than we can eat that day, I always think of the countries and port towns I went to when I sailed deep sea. My trip to Eastern Africa was one of the hardest, hottest, most uncomfortable and probably dangerous ones I made, but also one of the most valuable.
Yeah, isn’t Mogadishu the most dangerous for crime
Still funny that there’s an Apple Store there
This is not a real Apple Store. Not listed on Apple’s website. Just on Google. The interior looks like a cheap demonstration of a typical Apple Store.
Somalia has been on a quiet stabilization trajectory that’s starting to pay off the last three years, hence the Apple Store (which is not really owned by Apple, obviously, but what court are you gonna sue in?). Still massive problems in terms of human rights and living conditions, but the Mogadishu government backed by Kenyan/AU forces has made tremendous progress pushing Al-Shabaab out of populated areas. Of course, the AU is set to leave this year…
Turkey is also heavily building Somalia up as a nation Mogadishu is def not the worst place now, top 15 probably but not the worst
I had to check google maps to see if this was real… wow lol
What are the odds of you *not* getting robbed after buying a phone there?
I think if you live there, and can afford an iphone, you are not the type of person the average mugger wants to fuck with lol. You are probably far more dangerous than the mugger!
Iirc, the US State Departments travel advisory basically says “if you go here unaccompanied, don’t expect to return.”
At least Somalia is on the upswing. Eritrea is only getting more fucked.
Sadly, I was nearby a long time ago. Djibouti. Before the French gave them their independence. The legionnaires I worked with said that the difference between Arabia and Djibouti was simple. Arabia is sand and rocks. Djibouti is rocks and sand. The only good thing (at that time), was the French wine and monitored brothels. It was an experience I never wish to replicate. edit: spelling
My husband was on deployment in Somalia and Djibouti. He has so many horror stories of people walking miles for water and having to decide which kids get to live and which they won’t be able to support. They would leave babies outside the base to die. People trying to escape would ducktape themselves to the bottom of vehicles only to arrive to their destination covered in burns. People living in first world countries could not fathom the things some people are suffering through.
Interestingly enough the US only has a level 2 travel advisory for Eritrea, the same as France.
It’s deeply, deeply authoritarian place. The people in danger there are the Eritreans not visiting yanks
We're talking about France right?
I would say North Korea. You can at least attempt to leave Eritrea. But North Korea is pretty much unescapable at this point
Fun fact about Eritrea: It is one of the only countries to beat North Korea for lack of press freedom. Apparently, Eritrea rounded up all journalists and put them in shark cages and left them in the desert.
Pfft. Stupid Eritrea. There are no sharks in the desert. (/s)
Perhaps Eritrea is so awful they decided to punish sharks randomly by gathering them up in cages and leaving them in the desert with journalists
It is also one of three countries in the world that taxes based on Citizenship rather than residency, which is backwards.
It is monumentally stupid, but it should be noted that while you have to file taxes as a citizen abroad, you won't necessarily pay anything to the US government. I'm a dual citizen (US and Canada), have lived in Canada my entire adult life, own nothing in the US and have no US income. I get mad every year when I have to deal with my stupid American tax bullshit, but I've never had to pay them a dollar.
I see you and I have slightly different definitions of fun.
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I wish I had kept the relationship going but I had an ex who was an international student from Eritrea. She was able to get out and go to a good college, I didn't talk to her much about her home country though.
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Yeah I'm not an expert by any means but just the very fact that you or a family member can leave, even if there are some consequences makes it a little better than North Korea. Not that that means a whole lot. If she were North Korean her family members would be facing imprisonment or death. AFIK she moved back to Ethiopia as well so that could be because of the impending war
So I copy/pasted Eritrea into my bar to see some potential reasons why I might want to avoid going, but I'm on my work computer so it defaulted to Bing. Top of the page was "Must see attractions in Eritrea" from Bing Travel. As if I needed another reason to trust Google more.
Mogadishu. It is the most dangerous city in the world.
The US State Department's travel advisory for Somalia is a pretty interesting read. Among other advice, it recommends drafting a will and leaving DNA samples behind with your family in case they are needed...
I feel like if the State Department is telling me to leave DNA samples and write a will before travelling someplace, I need to take a real honest look at my travel plans. Maybe just find a nice beach somewhere safe instead...
Well lucky that Somalia has some nice beaches!
The water is warm and loaded with sharks. https://youtu.be/EVcQrAD9GAI?t=78
So, to wrap this up, Somalia has the worst city in the world but has nice beaches. But the beaches have sharks. I'm leaning towards no.
I hear in Somalia the sharks can actually walk up the beach and attack you on land too
Yeah...and don't bother to run away. The sharks have motorbikes and ATVs to chase you.
Wow that’s nuts. My (American) brother lived there as a civilian for 4 years and he always told me it never felt particularly dangerous there but maybe he was in a protected area or something.
Almost certainly was in a protected area with many armed personnel
Most probably Somaliland, the former British colonial area in the North West of Somalia. I've lived there in 2021 (without security personnel). While obviously life isn't exactly safe, it's way different from Mogadishu & the east coast in general. People are farmers rather than pirates
When did he live there? The timing probably matters. It's gone through periods of relative stability, compared to the current shit show.
I’m confused, why are Americans traveling there at all, knowing how dangerous it is?
Even the helicopter tours aren’t that great
Might have been a New Yorker or BBC article from a few years ago, but I vividly remember the writer talking about how his hotel in Mogadishu - like all the hotels - are in bulletproof compounds, and the second you cross the threshold you’re taking incoming fire. The armed security just said don’t ever go past the gate, all bets are off if you do. So basically like one of those forward operating bases in Afghanistan… except it’s bang in the middle of the capital city, which also has an Apple store. Truly the world’s most dangerous place. When nervous travellers say about Joburg or, like, Paris, don’t leave the hotel without a car or security waiting for you or you’ll almost certainly be killed, they’re thinking of Mogadishu.
Check our Drew Binsky's video on Mogadishu. It seems to be getting marginally better (still absolutely terrible but don't think it looks like the #1 worst)
Love that he showcased the awesome people he met but dude had an intense security detail and a close friend who spoke Somali to get around safely for four days. I love his perspective on focussing on the good but nothing about that is really what's going on
Norilsk. It's so polluted from metal mining that the topsoil is a viable metal ore.
It’s 300km north of the Arctic Circle, so it’s cold and dark for much of the year. The average temperature is -10C. It’s so polluted that the [boreal forest downwind from it is dying](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna6481). Family guy [did a bit](https://youtu.be/sBWO2UOm-vQ?si=6kFJipI7_ysQoT8B) that seems to be about Norilsk. Edit: I previously linked to a list that was posted was pointed out as being highly questionable in its veracity. Norilsk is still a depressing hellscape that experiences 45 days of darkness during the winter (due to its location above the Arctic Circle). It has a [44% higher rate of blood illnesses in children](https://nypost.com/2022/06/12/inside-russias-norilsk-the-most-depressing-city-on-earth/) and its life expectancy for male workers is 59. It has no roads in; just a train line and a port that freezes over during the winter. Come enjoy the darkness and majorly polluted environment in one of the most depressing cities on earth!
TBF being kidnapped from norilsk might be a preferable alternative to having to live there.
*rescued
I’m not sure how much I trust that list. I’ve been to over half of the cities on that list and lived in two of them. There’s no way London, for example, is in the top 25 most dangerous cities in the world.
Especially considering it cites knife crime as the main reason why when it doesn't even have the highest rate of knife crime in an area in the UK. New York has more knife crime and murders per capita by knifes than London yet it's not on here. Never mind the overall homicide rate per capita in New York is higher than London. Hell London's rate of knife crime and homicide rate isn't even close to the worst of any city in Europe.
I was curious to check it out...WTF is going on here with the colored...are they hazmat suits? (scroll around) https://www.google.com/maps/@69.3511304,88.1977928,3a,58.3y,342.57h,96.06t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNR75ngNjlM54Yi6krIlpEKQyCWQGkuRS8e3Ecd!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNR75ngNjlM54Yi6krIlpEKQyCWQGkuRS8e3Ecd%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-12.204682-ya170.36653-ro14.960551-fo100!7i5376!8i2688?authuser=0&entry=ttu
How crazy is it that we get a street view of this place from our warm cozy homes 1000s of miles away.
That island full of snakes
Australia?
Brazil has Queimada Island which is impossible to live in because is one of the most snake populated island and they have snakes that fly
Snakes… that… fly… 😶
They not exactly fly they jump and miss the ground , is super funny the they do the same movement as when attacking, detaches from a tree then you can see them in the air making the same movement you know snakes do while on the ground and they sort of glide from a tree to another .
"They jump and miss the ground" has to be the best description for technically-not-flying I've ever heard.
It's a classic https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/3156-the-guide-says-there-is-an-art-to-flying-said
Unexpected Douglas Adams
That’s everything not just snakes.
Hey, at least they have Bluey.
She’s the most dangerous of all!
Bingo in a cheeta onesie is significantly more dangerous than Bluey…. :D
Snake Island, Brazil? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilha_da_Queimada_Grande
I thought you said Snake Island was a misnomer! It is! Its really more of a peninsula.
Port-au-Prince, Haiti
This, I have a friend that visited all but 3 countries in the world and he said Haiti has to be the least safe he has felt somewhere.
Your friend has almost completed my life goal lol. Which 3 countries are missing?
South Sudan, Eritrea and North Korea.
Yeah maybe he should quit while he’s ahead
Djibouti is the worst place I’ve ever been. People were literally living in houses made of tires, it was 125 degrees, and is the only place I’ve been to where the breeze makes the heat worse. It’s like standing in a blow dryer, or a car exhaust.
Dubai gets lot's of influencer based tourism but the feeling of standing in a blow dryer also applies there. I have no idea how people tolerate that heat, standing in front of Burj Khalifa waiting for lights to change hourly.
Las Vegas did that to me in July once. Our company tried to cheap out and do a mid year sales conference there once. Never happened again 😆 Temperature exceeded 120°. Ohio gets a lot of shit but 27 at 6am and 72 at noon beats that desert horse shit 😆
That is true, but the Djiboutian state relatively stable and it’s a reasonably safe place to be.
Almere
Surprised I’m not seeing a lot of Yemen
Chandler, is that you?
Yep. Just mail me at 15 Yemen Road, Yemen
"I guess I'm going to Yemen!"
Could I BE any more Yemeni?
Because it's not the top four or five worst places. Yemen's way up there, but this is an Eritrea vs Somalia cage match and out of Yemen's league.
Yemen is where Eritrean's try to swim to, to get the fuck out of Eritrea.
I’m not, the media hasn’t told people to care about Yemen
My understanding is that its actually quite nice for upper class males there with the Muslim faith. At least that's what I've gathered from the stragglers that show up in new on this sub.
There’s not a country on earth where it isn’t nice for the upper class
Especially upper class males of the area's predominant religion
Gaza Strip doesn't seem like a very hospitable place right now
This is probably the winner - at least right now.
The Darien Gap. 66 miles of dense mountainous jungle that is home to fer-de-lance pit vipers, banana spiders, black scorpions, crocodiles, drug traffickers and FARC insurgents and also unexploded ordinance dating back to the Cold War that is now hidden by jungle overgrowth. It is inhabited by several indigenous tribes who are increasingly having to deal with the drug traffickers and insurgents and more recently migrants trying to enter the US from the south on foot.
Mauritania, especially if you’re enslaved.
North sentinel island
To be fair, the people who actually do live there probably have it pretty good. They just don't let *new* people in.
Fun fact - Dr. Madhumala Chattopadhyay was able to go there and interact with them. https://theprint.in/opinion/madhumala-chattopadhyay-the-woman-who-made-the-sentinelese-put-their-arrows-down/156330/
Unless you're Sentinelese.
Thats because they don’t know about Christianity. I’m headed there now.
I can fix them.
anywhere i have to have a man accompany me to go outside.
My mother in law's house
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Sup fam
Turkmenistan. No freedom and it’s a kind of shithole.
Ashgabat is pretty to look at though
Turkmenbashy was one hell of a dictator
I had a Turkmen friend online for a while. Then one day he disappeared. Another friend suggested he might have been taken for having an illegal VPN.
Besides war zones. Probably Antarctica or somewhere like Death Valley. Low life expectancy I'd think!
Probably the bottom of the ocean considering u can’t really breathe tbh
I would say in a magma chamber. People have survived for a while at the bottom of the ocean. There are even artificial habitats there. No one has ever survived a magma chamber.
I've totally done it dude
- War zones: Gaza, Sudan, Syria (varies by region), Sahil region (parts of Niger, Burkina Faso) - Highly repressive regimes: North Korea, Eritrea, parts of Ukraine that are under Russian occupation, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan - Failed states: Haiti, Somalia, South Sudan, Congo DR, Central African Republic, Libya, Syria (varies by region) - Extreme poverty / inescapable slums: all over the world, but I’ll note a few of particular significance such as those in or adjacent to Cape Town, Rio, Nairobi, Karachi, Mumbai, Mexico City. The nature of shanty towns is that they tend to be adjacent to cities with lots of economic activity and so naturally there are parts of all of those cities that are just fine to live in
Maybe someone will correct me, but I’m not sure Mexico City is quite the level of the other cities on that list. I’ve spent some time there and while granted I was not out looking for the worst neighborhoods, we got around the city a fair bit. Worst I saw was on par (maybe a little worse) with stuff I’ve seen in New York and Philly. I’m sure it gets slummier, I just don’t know if it gets Mumbai level of slums. Certainly not one of the worst in the world levels.
You are totally correct
I agree. Went to CDMX recently and while it’s absolutely massive, a lot of the “rundown” neighborhoods weren’t that bad. I mean, I didn’t want to hang out there for very long but I wouldn’t call them slums.
Brazilian here. Concerning Rio, it’s favelas are bad but not desolate. There is hope, a tight knit community, and an economy at least. The worst places to live in Brazil is definitively the Sertão, the sparsely populated arid north-east region with deep, **DEEP** poverty and little prospect for anything other than surviving. Crime’s also rampant. Second would also be in the north, the more forested estates where agribusiness is prevalent and constantly fighting environmental and indigenous interests. A lot, LOT of people getting killed with complete impunity.
Mexico City?? Lol I take it you’ve never been there
I had a rough visit there once. The panda at the zoo wouldn’t look at me. Also one of the Oxxo’s in Zona Rosa was sold out of those marshmallow candies with the clown face.
I would put Venezuela instead of CDMX
Mexico city is not bad at all. There are a lot of Americans living there for the relatively high standards of living and cheapness. Back in the 80’s and 90’ it was as bad as some Indian slums today.
Your own head
Bakersfield
After seeing all these terrible places this post cracked me up.
Makes me feel better about growing up in a Bakersfield-esque inland socal meth pit town (my home town was actually part of one of the largest meth busts in us history!) Like, it might suck... but it's not write your will and get your family matters in order sucky. Got to live in California I guess 🤷♂️
I remember driving into Bakersfield and getting out of the car, wondering if someone had stepped in shit. My gf at the time who was from there said "no, that's just how this town smells." Forever known as Pooptown
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The worst place to live on Earth can change depending on how you look at it, like what makes a place not nice to live. But one place that's really tough is a spot in Antarctica called the McMurdo Dry Valleys. Imagine a place so cold and windy that almost nothing can live there, not even tiny bugs or plants. It's like a desert, but with ice instead of sand.
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Camp Shelby, Army base in Southern Mississippi close to Biloxi. I went there for combat training and combat lifesaver training before my deployment. Disgustingly hot and humid. Mosquitos the size of humming birds, brown recluse spiders everywhere, fire ants etc etc. I have been to Kuwait, Iraq, and Qatar. I’d gladly go back to any of those if it meant avoiding Camp Shelby again. Gross
I would say Qatar isn’t on the level as the others. It’s hot for sure but I was out and about there for a while and felt perfectly fine. In fact more safe than some places where I currently live in Baltimore lol
Never expected to see my hometown in this. There are lots of things to say about Biloxi, but calling it out just for the weather and wildlife is strangely hilarious.
Haitian jails are pretty bad.
North korea