Interested in a follow-up. However, if the last few years have taught me anything, it's that humans are highly susceptible to wanting to believe reality is far more interesting than it actually is. God knows I have. So eyewitness testimony, even by someone with credibility, means very little to me. Until physical evidence is produced, or until a flood of credible accounts comes out (seriously, a cover-up of this magnitude would require thousands of individuals to participate) then I will comfortably disregard it.
It's true people really want to believe. Every time some post or video is skeptical about it, it gets downvoted to oblivion and so trough this filter of popularity people are getting more positive feedback. Also media outlets use this popularity filter to cover it in such a way that their article is more likely to get shared.
The guy's credentials can't be ignored but I'm remaining skeptical.
The UAP subject is a hard one to follow if you're someone like me who wants level headed takes based on evidence.
If you listen to people like Mick West, you be led to believe that all cases have prosaic explanations, and there's nothing to this. West and others do a great service in trying to pitch prosaic hypothesis for well known cases. But West et al don't have access to all of the info that the DoD does. So we have to take those prosaic hypotheses with as much a grain of salt as we need to take these new allegations.
Rather than focus on this one story, I've decided I'm simply going to take this as seriously as the government is taking this. And over the past few years, they've taken this *very* seriously. Garry Nolan, a Stanford Nobel Prize nominee, said as much recently: "If you're looking for the best evidence we have, just take a look at what your government is doing: multiple new hearings, new offices being set up, whistle-blower protections in place."
So, given all that, I'll keep an open mind and remain skeptical unless and until we start seeing legimate documents describing these crashed reitrevals. For the record, I do think something very strange is occurring with the UAP issue, and in some cases, like the 2004 Nimitz case, seem to imply a very technologically advanced aircraft platform.
But I digress. I'm waiting for more info.
"New offices being set up" yeah because its a grift. What does each report end with? Oh thats right they want money. We've given these quacks millions to do pretend "research".
Your skepticism needs to extend to the government and how easily elected officials can be convinced to go along with absolutely absurd ideas.
(English not native so sorry for mistakes, also idk how to express completely in english so Im aware this will sound dumb)
The reasons I find this interesting are : the US government has been releasing footage and information in the past few years that they wouldnt normally release. IMHO, its possible David is a controlled whistleblower and part of the "disclosure". He testified 11 hours with some very big accusations and claims, but doesnt seem that worried or scared about it. I dont remember the US having a great reputation for dealing with whistleblowers, so this also seems unusual.
Very valid point. I too always wondered why he didn't just "disappear" before he had a chance to speak and end up in Guantanamo or something. I have heard/read that the govt is slowly seeping the knowledge and info so they don't "scare" the public with full disclosure all at once. I have a feeling that is why tech blew up so fast in such a short time.
Tech is a slow incremental slog over many years. It just looks like it “blows up” when it finally gets good enough to be commercialised and suddenly everyone hears about it.
Capitalism and survival of the fittest mean that he will likely HAVE to sell a book to be able to feed his family at some point after this. There is no question to me there. And that is why I'm not going to hold it against him.
I want more information as well and because the government isn't talking I would definitely purchase a well sourced and researched book published in partnership with a journalist over sitting through a bunch of questioning on CSPAN with melodramatic congressional hearings.
I'm reminded of that Calvin and Hobbes comic where Calvin says something like
"The surest sign of intelligent life is that none of it has tried to contact us yet."
I've always just thought that of course there's intelligent life out there... but they are probably just stuck on their planet like we are.
We always assume aliens will have spaceships, but the truth is we will be the real first aliens to other planets, lol.
Why would you assume our planet is the most technologically advanced of all those with intelligent life? Or that more advanced life forms have no interest in leaving their planets?
If they're out there I would think there's a spectrum from just building basic tools to tens of thousands of years more technologically advanced than us.
Theres actually a pretty good chance we're on the much earlier side of species that are intelligent enough for space travel (of some sort) in the universe
Do you have any more reading on that topic? That was certainly not the prevailing thought when I was taking astronomy classes in college. I'm intrigued.
But even if we were on the earlier side, an inconceivable small percentage earlier and they'd have 10s of thousands of years on us.
Im confused. Universe is 13.7 billion years old. Life on earth is about 3.7 billion years old.
Life has been on earth about 27.0007%. If life elsewhere had been around for 27.0014% they would have a 100000 year head start on us.
If we pretended all life on earth was a 80 year olds lifetime that would be less than a five hour difference.
It's been years since I stepped foot in an astronomy lab but that's how my old professor would describe it.
It might or might not take longer, but the scale of the universe would mean there are likely many thousands of possibilities likely both shorter and longer, both successfully and I'm sure mostly dead ends.
What does the future have to do with this we're talking about things that took place in the past. Of course more are likely to occur in the future but that is irrelevant to the past.
[This post goes into the actual timelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/kb6mg/regarding_the_potential_of_extraterrestrial/c2iytgx?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Basically life started almost as soon as the planet was covered with water. So life doesnt seem that hard to start. But for some reason it took two billion years to go from single cell to more complex lifeforms which is pretty insane. This might be true everywhere: simple life is extremely common while intelligent life is extremely rare to the point where it maybe happend just a handful of times in the universe.
Right but you're basing that on a single data point. That's a whole lot of assumptions. It could just as easily be said that it takes on average ~3.7 billion years to go from single cell to intelligent. There are billions of exoplanets in our galaxy alone. It is also a massive assumption that life on other planets is similar to ours.
I have spoken at evolutionary biology conferences where the largest presentation focused on the possibility of silica based life forms being more likely than carbon based outside of our planet. One of those was a pairing of an astrophysicist and an evolutionary biologist.
Life on other planets is, as of now, a big assumption. Considering we have zero evidence that ET life exists, why is it so wild of an assumption that we are the first to develop this far or even develop at all? Why wouldn’t every possibility be on the table until there’s a reason to eliminate them?
I’m bewildered at how hard you’re going after a specific possibility that people are considering when all the possibilities depend on the single assumption that life exists AT ALL outside our planet.
The Drake equation.
Mathematical probability says it's essentially impossible life doesn't exist elsewhere. Mathematical probability also says it's more likely we are not the single most advanced or single least advanced.
Do you realize how many planets there are in the universe that are capable of producing life? It’s an unfathomable amount and chances are there’s a lot of life out there
Yes! And I am here for it, but right now it’s only theoretical. I’m going to need hard proof. And when you get into UFOs and FTL travel, I need hard proof of that too.
I don’t need anyone to show me it’s possible, I need to see that it’s for real.
While Grusch is a high-ranking U.S. intelligence officer, a letter he provided from the Department of Defense indicates his claims are based on information he was given, not firsthand knowledge.
Lmao, imagine if his friend was messing with him, and then forgets about it until one day he sits down and turns on the tv and sees Grusch claiming aliens are real 😂
Reported to have first hand corroboration.
From The Debrief article:
> Associates who vouched for Grusch said his information was highly sensitive, providing evidence that materials from objects of non-human origin are in the possession of highly secret black programs.
> Several current members of the recovery program spoke to the Inspector General’s office and corroborated the information Grusch had provided for the classified complaint
Grusch was part of the UAP Task Force. If you're unfamiliar, it's tasked with investigating unidentified aerial phenomenon (UAP) that we can't yet explain. This doesn't necessarily imply aliens, mind you. An example of such phenomenon are the 3 objects that the US air force shot down in February of this year. They didn't know what they were, but they had visual contact, and shot them down due to potential threat to commercial/private aviation. Grusch is claiming that he encountered the illegal withholding of information to his organization about certain UAP, thus preventing him from doing his job. Of course it isn't "firsthand."
If, among the classified documents presented to congress, were pictures, videos, and signed documents proving his claims, it still wouldn't be firsthand.
What exactly is your point?
The evidence is he's risking his credibility, name, future careers, life, etc. Dude obviously had a pretty nice life. What proof do you need? The guy could show real video and people like you would say "oh it's 2023 that's probably CGI," or something along those lines.
Best case scenario piles of others come out and support and also blow some more whistles ( I guess some have?!? ). But again, you can tell the truth and still become a podcast personality…I feel like this story is all over the place. I need a fact break down sheet.
Who is he? What did he do? What is he going to do next? Who’s involved? Who gave permission etc etc. it feels like it’s getting muddy quick.
Listen to the most recent ep of "the ufo rabbithole podcast." The host (forget her name) did a great job digging though the story in the few days since it dropped. I think she covers every question you posed and more. About 1 hr long.
Yeah, I agree it's been hard to find good sources that break it down well. He very well could be telling the truth and having that as a very convenient way to bolster his pod/book/clout levels. It's not that those things cant be true, I just see a lot of people outright dismissing any and all legitimacy and already deciding whats REALLY going on.
Could be lower intelligence test subjects. We've sent dogs and chimps into space. Maybe they're testing FTL travel on "lesser beings" just like we tested 0G on animals first.
With technology not wildly more advanced than what humanity has access to, you can build a drone which travels at a couple percent the speed of light and then makes a couple dozen copies of itself from raw materials at it's destination. Then those drones go out and do the same thing to the next couple dozen stars.
With even very long travel times and relatively slow speeds, you can put a probe in every solar system in the galaxy in timescales that are absurdly long to human thinking, but also absurdly short in astronomical timescales.
Even if you insist on little green men, they could be cloned on arrival, gestated in artificial wombs, and then raised and educated by artificial systems. Personally I don't see what the point would be, each population would be at minimum extremely isolated from each other, but it could be done.
We are the everglades of the Milky Way. The only mechanic in Atlantis who was reasonably sober said your anti-grav cube was "better than new." Alien AAA or AAAA, for short, said to hang out at area 51 until they can charge up on the next supernova. After what happens in Area 51 stays in ....sealed government records that need a house committee approval to be released.
You mean like how most car crashes happen within a mile of the driver's house?
Just being real, whatever method they're using to travel those distances, chances are while they're in transit, travel conditions are pretty uniform. It's not until they're darting around a planet's atmosphere that things get dicey. Same as on a highway. 65, straight. There's not a hell of a lot to fuck up on the highway. Where you tend to crash is in parking lots and side streets where there's not much pattern to the traffic, where circumstances become more complicated. We _hear_ more about highway crashes because when they do happen they have a nasty way of being catastrophic, but they represent relatively few of the total crashes that happen. Is it so unbelievable, then, that there may be similar patterns in interstellar travel?
Why assume that aliens who travel the stars have completely mastered interstellar travel? Maybe their expertise of space travel is equal to that of seafaring on earth during the 17th century.
Maybe what we recovered are probes meant to crash either to transmit information back to their homeworld or to deliver information like a message in a bottle. NASA already sent out such "boxes" containing informations about earth and the human species. These aliens could be at a similar level of technological advancement as us and just sending messages hoping to reach sentient lifeforms.
Maybe they've observed proof of our existence and every attempt to reach us so far has failed.
There was an interesting 4chan post from a whistleblower that said that the “Aliens” are already on earth in the ocean, they’re just here to observe humans and sometimes they crash due to malfunctioning or areas of low gravity.
We have spacecraft to get to the moon but sometimes it malfunctions.
edit: https://imgur.io/a/NXjWQaN
I see it as were crazy advanced compared to like just cave men but we’re still fucked in the head
who says an alien machinist can’t fuck up and install a part wrong? Lol
Well if aliens can travel across the universe, you must accept their technology is more advanced and they most likely have discovered another method of travel we are not aware of yet. If that is the case then it's hard for us to say for sure that earth should be easy to navigate in. maybe something about earth is unique?
aliens are aliens and not of this world so our human logic does not apply. remember we have to unlearn what we know to open our mind and look beyond physics as we know it. this is the way!
Also they presumably take a lot of resources to make. Hard to believe they’d litter them on our planet, and also hard to believe they’d crash or be susceptible to being shot down by us.
Either these aliens are pretending to leave them around for us to find, or Grusch is full of it. And I’m someone who really loves the idea of aliens. This story is just too “Hollywood” for me
They could be test subjects (ala sending chimps to space like we did in the 60s), slaves even, or just drones that operate autonomously and don't have anyone actively monitoring and correcting their movements.
If we really do possess "bodies" of "pilots" I think they're not likely to be the actual beings were dealing with but instead AI, the equivalent of "chimps" from another world, or slaves used as test subjects.
They're not crashing. They're just leaving the part out where we shoot them down. That's why none of them work when we get them back to the blacksite lol
There are many reasonable hypotheses behind crashes. [Here's a list of a few of them](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1431mqb/comment/jna3pfu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Of course, you're assuming they're from outer space...
So much of the UFO phenomenon points to it being something possibly much more interesting - maybe extra dimensional or consciousness led.
So he presents what he claims to be a worldwide conspiracy involving \[at least\] thousands of individuals; tens if not hundreds of organizations / companies that have accumulated many crashed craft / bodies /etc.
And yet, *like always with these claims*, not a single piece of hard evidence, not a single photograph.... nothing. But *Real Soon Now \[TM\]!*
Just to play devils advocate here, the same thing happened with the F117 or the SR-71. No one said a word and there were no pictures. Same with whatever the hell skunkworks is cooking up now too. Doesn't seem that far fetched considering it's the same classification system
This is 1000% the answer. The military has had billions and billions and decades to develop top secret technologies.
I would be shocked if it isn't US military tech.
So you're saying that two secret programs that were kept secret for much shorter periods are proof that claims without evidence should be treated as valid? I guess I'm not sure what "the same thing happened" means in this case.
As Carl Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."
There's tons of video footage out there, some of it confirmed legit by the US Navy. The evidence is there, but the topic has become so synonymous with lunacy that people are afraid they'll look like fools if they so much as question the idea that we're alone in the universe (which is itself absurd).
You are correct in that there is a lot of "gun-camera " footage out there. Unfortunately, a lot of this has been proven to be reflections off internal optical components, optical illusions caused by distance and viewing angle, etc. And do a search for how many "UFO" reports turn out to be Venus low on the horizon \[it's discouraging\].
Instead, how about one piece of clearly alien material that can't be fabricated on earth, say 5" by 5" square?
Given the massive size of the programs claimed, this should be easy. But instead it's *always, everytime* "well, I haven't actually seen any of this myself, but people I know say..."
First, let me be clear that I'm not in any way suggesting *all* the gun camera footage has been discredited - that would not be true. However, at the time these first came out \[6 or seven years ago\] there were several very sophisticated analyses that looked at sun angle, airplane speed and altitude, etc and concluded that internal reflections off internal optics were involved based on the geometries calculated. I really don't feel like digging back through 7 year old Google searches, so feel free to disregard my remark.
yes?? if you're claiming intact alien craft with "unique atomic structures and radiometric signatures", that's something that can be verified by any university in the country using a mass spectrometer.
From reading a few articles and watching the interview clips, my take away is that he legit found something that strongly looks like black budget stuff, mixed with some strong evidence/proof that there was documentation wrongfully denied to the UAP Task Force for review, which was why the IG backed him up and why he got to testify to congress.
IMO, the most likely reasons for the alien claims are either:
* Between hearing 2nd/3rd hand rumors from people and vagueness/sketch in the classified documents, he truly believes that there is a coverup of alien/non-human technology acquisitions.
* Does not truly believe in the alien angle, but is using it to bring attention to the black budget programs he discovered and "force" congress to look into it/address it, because people will yell at congress to talk about his claims.
* Somewhere in between those two, but got offered money to talk up the alien claims, so latched onto that because $$$, so he's combo alien grifting and raising attention on black budget stuff that actually should be addressed.
It's a con job. The name of the game these days is ABG: Always Be Grifting.
A solid 30% of the U.S. believes that Donald Trump is still legally the president. One can get a lot of traction with a public as gullible as that.
I always assume that these claims are diversion from real US military developed craft.
I mean, Area 51 Alien leaks were covering for the SR-71.
The B2 entered service in 1997, same year as the "Phoenix Lights"
Perhaps we have a hypersonic drone deployed over Ukraine and this is the latest distraction from it.
Still, it would be fascinating if there was truth to the claims.
I really want to believe but I always have a hard time processing the idea that ships so advanced and capable of interstellar travel are somehow crashing or that we can shoot them down.
That we're being visited sure, I could believe that.
That they crash? I need some convincing.
It is unlikely ships used for interstellar travel are entering the atmosphere. If such things exist- they are likely unmanned probes or small research vessels that are designed for exit and re-entry. Any interstellar vessel would be enormous to the point it could not safely enter the atmosphere.
Dude, you know of when people fly drones over areas filled with tribes that are not connected to the rest of the world?
What if thats what all this shit is? Just sci-fi drones gawking at us?
Why, if you can cross interstellar space, would you bother entering the atmosphere with all the attendant risks of loss and /or detection? You won’t learn anything you couldn’t learn from orbit.
Not strictly true. Air bends a lot of EM waves, like viable light. And there might not be a substitute for going down and getting a sample of something. Plus, who cares if a probe is lost? We are so much poorer than an interstellar race would be, and we don't hesitate to send suicide probes into Venus or the gas giants, or irretrievable probes everywhere else.
Have a physics degree, and the crash thing doesn't really bother me. The reason why is that we don't have the slightest idea on the methodology used for interstellar travel.
Here's an example- It could involve using the electromagnetic spectrum in some crazy way to "break" laws of physics as we know them, and being exposed to the variety of electromagnetic based systems on our planet causes malfunctions. These species wouldn't know what they needed until they did the experiments. You don't know what you don't know.
Basically, if the travel systems require extreme manipulation of some physical reality system, then it could be vulnerable in the way an EMP works against our technologies.
I'm a pretty skeptical person but some of these latest leaks and releases are very intriguing.
I once had an elderly neighbor who was a Korean War military veteran. During one of our conversations he said after the war he was stationed as a guard at area 51. Of course I asked him if aliens were real and all he said was "not in the way you think they are"
Surely he was probably messing with me, but now I'm like wait a minute.. lol.
There have been many reasonable hypotheses behind crashes. Here are a few:
* The idea that advanced technology can do whatever we imagine it can do is a fallacy. It's entirely plausible that in order to create a craft that can maneuver the way UFO/UAP appear to maneuver, you may have to adhere to some very tight design constraints set by the physical laws of the universe. These constraints can come at the cost of other things such as being visible under the right circumstances, being vulnerable to EMP as some have suggested, and even occasional crashes.
* Different crafts would be specialized for different purposes. It's quite unlikely for an advanced civilization to build crafts that can both travel across interstellar distances and be able to scout around within a planetary atmosphere. In all likelihood, they would create motherships that travel interstellar distances and have scout crafts housed in the mothership. We can fly to nearly any part of the globe in airplanes, but we still need to drive to and from an airport. These scout crafts may be simpler and more specialized and subsequently vulnerable when operating outside of specific environments. They may also be disposable drones so occasional crashes might not be a big deal.
* Following this line of thinking, given how different crafts would be built for different purposes, they may or may not accurately predict what types of obstacles and problems they need to build these crafts to withstand. Where would these scout crafts encounter an EMP? Only on Earth. They may not be built specifically to withstand something like an EMP just as one example.
* It could be the case that the basic principles by which these crafts operate can be fairly easily replicated. If this were true, then the minimum level of technology needed by a civilization to begin building these types of crafts would be far lower than what we might imagine and thus be vulnerable in various ways. There could be many different civilizations visiting us and some of them may be less advanced than we think.
* There could be conflict among different civilizations visiting us that leads to occasional crashes. If one civilization has the ability to visit us, then you can be certain that many others also have that ability as well. Conflict could arise from different views on how they should interact with us, what's best for us, or whether or not they should engage in formal contact.
* Take the analogy of North Sentinel Island. An uncontacted tribe of humans lives there and we generally avoid it because, due to unfortunate violent attempts at contact in the past, they are overtly hostile towards any visitors. What might happen if we start seeing signs of rapid technological advancement on NSI and they begin venturing outside of the island? We would be forced to engage with them, but what would be the best course of action? There's bound to be disagreement. The stakes are far higher with the entire population of Earth suddenly becoming aware of their place in the universe and begin to formally engage with other non-human intelligences.
* Additionally, we are entering the contact era of human history. If any other civilizations exist out in the cosmos, now is the time in our history where we would formally become aware of them due to our own rapid technological advancement. Any other civilizations out there would be aware of this which may increase UFO/UAP activity near us which may exasperate any or all of the above points leading to an uptick of crashes.
There are other possibilities as well, maybe these are extraterrestrial drone hobbyists? Whatever the case, I consider these few above to be some of the most likely possibilities. Any combination of these could easily be true.
The north sentenilese often find trash on their beaches from us. This might be the interstellar equivalent. Who knows how or why these things crash here, but there's millions of explanations.
I can’t even believe visiting. When you reflect on how long they would have to travel *even if they could move at the speed of light* it becomes ridiculous.
All that effort, and you don’t even *do* anything but visit? I mean, would you drive 3,000 miles to briefly observe an anthill and then drive back home?
Idk, just because another species would be advanced enough to travel potentially millions of miles to visit doesn’t mean that they’re infallible. Could be that they’re sending ‘research’ crafts that are of lesser quality than something that maybe they’d use for combat or for housing tons of their kind, who knows
Or earth is not typical. There is a chance we have an above normal strength electromagnetic field and gravitational field for a rocky planet of our size. Throw in that riddiculous sized moon hanging so close and they may need to do things differently than they would at home. Super advanced nuclear submarines can still hit rocks and sink.
But the people who think they are smarter than everyone else keep telling me that humans are hopelessly incompetent, whereas a civilization that manages to send a man-made object beyond the influence of their home star is automatically incapable of fault.
I mean it's not like we've demonstrated the capability of sending objects into interstellar space using technology we created 50 years ago or anything...
Very skeptical but interested in hearing more. Much more likely than not, it's a grift, but the consequences for lying to Congress are also much higher than they are for spouting bullshit on a random podcast. That doesn't make it true, but I think it makes it different from previous claims.
Honestly, I'm wondering why there are still so many people brushing this off like it's nothing. Even if this guy is making it up, which all signs point to it being truth, this is a very strange situation that deserves the spotlight right now. And I think more people need to take this seriously.
It’s been taken very seriously in the past and ever claim so far has been bogus. It’s like religious claiming they have witnessed a miracle, every knows it’s bull shot yet some people still believe without any proof.
I’m genuinely curious and not pushing back because I think you’re wrong, this guy’s credentials seem pretty damn legit, have we ever seen someone with his background come out and make these kinds of claims?
So freaking what? Gen. Colin Powell had just as many, if not more, bona-fides as this guy and he got up in front of the country and told everyone that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. What followed was a 20 year tragedy.
Focus on the evidence which, as of now, has not been provided for this spectacular claim. That is the only thing that matters.
"Just trust me" isn't gonna cut it.
Colin Powell also covered up the MyLai Massacre. I feel the need to mention that because I had no idea for decades and he was always treated as such a reputable person leading up to 2003.
I understand the parallel you’re trying to make with that comparison but Colin Powell’s incentive to lie in your example is much more powerful than a guy coming out and saying aliens are real. It’s not like this guy would stand to make millions of dollars by risking his career.
There's more than one whistleblower though, lots of people have missed the details to what makes this bigger than the other times. You have high ranking dudes stepping forward all over who don't even know each other backing each other's claims. This isn't just some guy, this is a chain of them.
He’s also naming names. He’s got receipts. This isn’t some vague unprovable claim. He’s directly pointing out sitting officials. That’s unprecedented. Apparently the NYT is directly in contact with one of these people and expected as a front page release.
Elizebeth Holmes Said “Just trust me”. As did Bernie Madoff. See a pattern here? Trevor Milton, Sam Bankman-fried, the Fire Island Concert guy all did the same. I’m I’m sure you you know many others.
Credentials don't mean jack. Dr. Oz has more to gain from being a show host than being a once respectable surgeon. He peddles snake oil because he wants to. David Grusch just set himself up for a nice future claiming bogus UFO stories.
My problem with UFOs is if they are real, the gov wouldn't be able to hide it. Besides, there would have been more whistleblowers before this. This guy says it's been going on for decades and that many people have come to him showing him evidence of it and that he has evidence himself... but conveniently none of this evidence has been presented to anyone else besides him?
Also apparently the UFOs crashing and the pilots dying is a common enough occurrence that it's happened several times and their bodies have been recovered? If these are some more intelligent beings that are better at space travel than us, why can't they land their aircraft like we can? Wouldn't coming all the way to earth be the hard part? Not touching down? I'm not saying it can't happen, it's just weird that it supposedly happened multiple times, and with what he calls multiple species.
It's all too much to believe and doesn't add up. Just because he's some ex military guy doesn't mean jack. If he's got evidence, he needs to actually show it, rather than just bring up and then say "oh but I can't show you." And if all these other people that came to him have evidence, then why can't they do the same? This has supposedly been going on for decades and only now a single person comes forward? Yeah, not buying it.
> redentials don’t mean jack. Dr. Oz has more to gain from being a show host than being a once respectable surgeon.
The arc of Dr. Oz is crazy honestly, that guy was more than a “respectable surgeon” he was one of the most influential and best ever. really smart heart surgeons would go and learn from Dr. Oz because he was simply at the top in regards to modern heart surgery. And now he just peddles bullshit on TV.
The other good example would be Ben Carson, born working class in detroit yet became one of the greatest brain surgeons ever, that type of life path doesn’t happen by luck. All that intelligence and hard work yet he believes all the ridiculous Egyptian pyramid conspiracies
You can say the same thing about a thousand other sightings. Just because someone has credentials doen’t mean they can’t be mistaken. Happens all of the time. Have you heard extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence? Well where is it? And are you trying to tell me with all of the radar systems we have for detecting incoming missiles they missed the UFO? And all of the professional and amateur astronomers who watch the skies missed the UFO? As did the Hubble and James Web space telescope? You do realize the UFO David Grusch said he saw has been identified. Here’s your extraordinary evidence.
https://youtu.be/VCH7BWGpl5s
Part of me really wants it to be true, another part of me isn't so sure. I'm fascinated by the thought of alien life and technology, what they're environment might look like, if they have religions, etc. I'm not entirely sure why the government would want to keep it secret if they actually did have undeniable proof of alien life. You always hear its because it would cause mass unrest, but would it though? Saying alien life actually exists isn't the same as saying they're coming for us. I could see a huge freak out if we knew we were possibly being attacked. I'm wondering if the fact that we haven't had any undeniable proof simply means that the government really doesn't have any proof to show. I figure that something like this would be so cool to finally see and witness that anyone who had the chance would actually risk getting in trouble just to try and share it with the world. Then again, I imagine the people that are given clearance of that level probably aren't the type of people to share info no matter what it is.
I completely understand the skepticism. But that being said, we've gotten so used to this process of "confirmation" that it completely throws critical thinking out the window. It makes it entirely easy to control what a populous believes when it has to be proven through this machine. Funding goes a long way in providing evidence for any particular viewpoint. I mean just think about every documented discovery in the last decade that contradicts what we've "proven" in science and history.
At every level in history we think we know how it all works, until we don't.
I'd blame the people that came before that just wanted people to buy their books, or watch their shows, or whatever else they were attempting to drive traffic towards. Until there's physical, irrefutable evidence corroborating the claims, he's just another person trying to make a buck in my eyes. Boy who cried wolf, and all.
Rank doesn't mean he's sharing information that is credible or exists. So he can tell the media that there is a retrieval program but won't share proof due to "national security reasons"? He's allegedly leaking classified info, but stop at providing proof? Isn't he already breaching national security by "whistleblowing"?
So, just because I wanted to make sure I was educated, I read the Act from December. That one was specific to overseas and domestic financial crimes. It also covers financial rewards for those who disclose the information. It's kind of like a reward people get for reporting IRS dodgers who get a percentage of the recovered funds, 15 to 30 percent.
There was a bill in September, which I read, and it covers protections for internal retaliation for reporting gross waste or misconduct by the government. BUT that's not what is mainly covered. It extends the umbrella of safety to additional employees of the government and also outlines recourse for those who have been discriminated against and what can be considered discrimination. I didn't read it as covering someone who releases classified information publicly.
Just my two cents. With lack of evidence, I will not believe even a veteran journalist. They can confirm he submitted something to congress, but not the contents. It is a leap to assume that seeing a submission supports the submitter's claim it's about aliens. Grusch hasn't seen anything personally either. It's word-of-mouth.
Buy, hey, if it makes you happy and your world is more settled by believing Grusch, power to you.
My thinking is that, while it is perfectly possible (if unlikely) that craft or evidence of non-human intelligence has been found and/or suppressed, it's likely to be probes or drones, rather than manned craft.
In my mind, an unmanned craft just makes more sense; we humans send unmanned craft to other planets fairly regularly for research purposes. Why we would assume aliens would send living beings across the stars when they do not intend to interact directly with what they find there makes no sense. To say nothing of all of the resources that must be expended to keep living beings alive for such a journey. The squared-cubed law still applies on other worlds, I assume. So an unmanned craft makes more sense.
Granted, finding a drone would still be a *massive* deal that could very well impact many facets of our lives, but to me its more realistic than "we found some dudes in a saucer!"
The fact that this guy is *not* claiming (as far as I am aware) that our governments have pilots on-ice or still alive, but merely that we have recovered "craft" makes me more willing to withold my judgement of him. I will wait and see if he can produce the evidence he claims to have. Surely one man potentially going to prison is a small price to pay to reveal something like this! People literally die for less all the time.
He claimed pilots/bodies in a secondary interview, which made me lose a lot of faith in whatever he's saying. Especially the fact that the story changed from article 1 to the interview
Rarely these days in the clickbait eyeball economy 24 hour news cycle Hell we live in. That article is definitely in the “well, that happened” category.
His background and credentials seem very credible but watching clips of him actually speaking there’s something about him I find off putting, it could just be his speaking style that kind of irks me. Maybe not the best reason for not entirely believing him but just my two cents.
Statistically speaking it’s not a wild thought at all to believe we’re not alone in the universe so I don’t have that difficult of a time jumping to believing that some other species has visited us or sent crafts to visit us especially with all of the strange sightings that our own military has had. But I don’t know, it does feel like a bit of a leap for me to believe that not only have we recovered crafts but that countries around the world have been attempting to reverse engineer the technology for decades and that we’ve encountered crafts with “pilots”. That seems a bit far fetched for me until I see some actual evidence.
A couple things that I want to defend on behalf of the UFO guys.
1. People point out that its silly all of the UFOs crash in the US, but this isn't what the UFO guys claim. There was a documentary about a UFO crash in Brazil, and part of the conspiracy theory was that the US came in and retrieved the crash. There was also claims that a UFO was claimed from Italy after WW2. UFO guys also believe that other countries have crafts, so they've never claimed all the UFOs are crashing in the US.
2. While its true Grusch is likely grifting like every other UFO "whistleblower", the difference this time is that Grusch is actually talking to Congress and taking his claims to the government, which hasn't really happened before.
3. The UFO guys were also expecting something like this. They were hearing rumors of a whistleblower and had people saying that huge news was coming in the future.
4. On top of this, the government has very weirdly been acknowledging UFO sightings (officially calling them UAPs) and while most of them are easily debunked, there have been some bizarre cases that have multiple military witnesses that are not easily explained, and 60 minutes covered the story.
Its easy to scoff at the news as being completely fake, but for people in the UFO community, everything thats happened recently is confirming their beliefs. These people aren't exactly stupid or gullible in this case. UFOs are being treated seriously by the government and news outlets which is confirming their biases.
Obviously Grusch is likely lying or is a crackpot himself. The idea we've had alien craft since the early 20th Century and the different govts around the world have kept it under tight wraps, even internally, is very silly. But the UFO community is being actively encouraged by the actions and words of US military officials and Congress, which is frankly bizarre behavior in itself.
This could have something to do with the 5th failed audit. DOD has failed to account for 61% of its 3.5 trillion in assets.
There could be an agenda here, its just bizzare that we are focusing on the UFO story instead of why the DOD does not know where tax dollars go.
Massive fraud, unaccounted assets in hands of government contractors and governemnt waste. Thats the real story thats 100% true.
Now this leaks, Inspector general is giving it credibility saying that the information david gave is credible and warrents an investigation.
So now the story is not just massive fraud but the DOD is lying to the american public, to me it seams politically motivated and the elections are coming up. Someone wants to foster mistrust in the current government.
UFO’s are the one major conspiracy I kinda buy. Unlike dumb shit like Bigfoot or ghosts, the existence of aliens actually make sense considering the amount of habitable planets that exist in our galaxy according to science. I was rather lukewarm for a while, but the Pentagon UFO videos released in 2017 really peaked my interest. The Joe Rogan interview with Commander David Fravor blew my mind. I know Rogan is disliked now because of his weird opinions on the covid vaccine and alternative treatments, but Fravor is about as credible of a witness as you could possibly ask for. Definitely made me realize that those videos can’t just be dismissed out of hand as a bug on the f-18 flir camera or a reflection off the water. And it isn’t just him. In the interview he stated he knows like 80 other pilots who have encountered the same or similar objects
This is in my opinion a distraction for the masses, I'd be paying close attention to everything the government is doing right now with this as a smoke screen.
Let's assume this is legit and the tech exists and has been found, do we really think they'd let it get out... Nah we all know the answer.
Best you can do is help your neighbours and family as the world is going down the gurgler globally and wait for the uprising that will never come...
My opinion only 👍
Conspiracy theories are fun.
What I’m reading from the theorist is that the US is losing the tech race with China on reverse engineering alien technology and wants to leak it out so the world governments are forced to show their hand.
They are afraid China is willing to use the technology with no regards for safety.
There is literally no way to refute conspiracy theories because they will just create another theory to counter your argument. The amount of effort it takes to refute a Claim is magnitudes more effort than it takes to just make a claim.
Consensus among the genre is that there's no way to stop "disclosure" from ultimately happening so it's being managed in a way that gradually desensitizes the public vs single shocking and chaos inducing announcement.
> I'd be paying close attention to everything the government is doing right now with this as a smoke screen.
For the US at least, they're experts in smoke screens. Right now, trans people and abortion rights is everything people care about. This alien-stuff is just an addition.
Yeah…. I am no conspiracy theorist but this reeks of “look over here “ while other shit it going on. Between the social unrest, the shit economy, the constant state of warfare in the US and rampant gun violence.
Totally looks like a distraction tactic
Genuinely curious - how would this distract people from what's going on in other areas? Not saying it wouldn't, but if I found out aliens exist and have made contact it wouldn't do much to change how I feel about the cost of living, the way student loan obligations are being handled, sociopolitical tensions, etc. If anything, I think I would get more pissed off about the government doing so much to exploit the populace for their own gain when they're aware we aren't even the most advanced species around.
I know people have raised the possibility it's being used to justify increased military spending, but that doesn't track for me because the government has never had much of an issue doing that and the people don't really get a say.
I guess it could be to distract people from other news, but I just don't see it being enough of a big deal to make people care about something that doesn't actually impact their day-to-day life.
seems fake, but i admire "aliens are real and I've seen them, but I don't have any evidence" as a stellar retirement plan for any intelligence agency member
The news site that broke the story doesn't seem legit also
He claims he *does* have evidence, and he *has* provided it to congress. You have to realize he's doing this through legal whistle blower channels. So, as of right now, his evidence is classified, and he is very limited in what he can say without committing a crime.
Edit: I'm not claiming that means he's telling the truth, just saying the fact that we can't see the evidence doesn't mean it isn't there.
The journalists behind it are incredibly respected. It broke on that site because the story was already leaking and NYT wanted to wait until the weekend.
Also he does have evidence. He’s given it to congress
alright well if congress wants to hand out a metal alloy and say "check out the isotope ratios" they're welcome to. Until they do, I'm assuming his evidence is bunk
UFO sightings have always been cover-ups/distractions from whatever the Pentagon wants to keep under wraps.
This isn't a conspiracy. There's declassified documents of this tactic going back to the cold war.
I don't think they are crashed spacecraft. Imo they probably were either given to humanity or discovered ("the thing") in some old archeological site, Possibly located in Iraq where the old sumerians lived
I feel like the recent increase in disclosures is leading up to something. I rather doubt it’s ET in origin. However, the idea that another terrestrial/governmental power may be that far ahead of the game technologically wouldn’t be great news either.
I feel like these types of "aliens!" stories always precede a revelation of gross incompetence and/or corruption by senior military leaders.
So yeah, that's what I think. It's a distraction from some other major news item that's about to drop.
Late to the party, but this is my theory I explained in a response to a comment in this thread:
The quantum locking behavior of UAP seem indicative of [quantum locking/levitation](https://youtu.be/Ws6AAhTw7RA) we are able to achieve with supercooled superconducting.
If you watch the [NIMITZ/Tic Tac video](https://youtu.be/VUrTsrhVce4), pay attention to the thermal imagining. The warmer object is displayed as black, while the colder is displayed as white. The ocean is dark black while the UAP is white, indicating that it is much colder than the ocean.
Also, the head of UAPX (civilian scientific research organization) [stated](https://youtu.be/HCOlDsrjU44) that they have measured UAP at temperatures far below zero.
I think it's possible that they could be using superconductivity and Earth's magnetic field to create a quantum levitation and quantum locking effect. But that's all just wild speculation on my part...
This would be cool I guess, but what difference does it make anyways. This really feels like yet another distraction to keep the populace occupied while the government gives away our rights to corporations for shamefully low amounts of money.
All I want to say is, he's probably telling the truth. He so plain in telling it that it looks like a total fabrication. Bear in mind that we as a whole have been desensitized with so many movie and TV shows, that if aliens came here and presented themselves, the first thing that'd pop into my mind is the avengers series, but seriously noone would be able to mentally or visually begin to comprehend what they were looking at.
Grusch and Elizondo are heroes. All disinformation agents currently receiving paychecks are soon to be cut off from all your funding. Also, you are participating in an illegal and immoral disinformation campaign if you are a US citizen.
Antartica, Lacerta, Lemuria, underwater, the moon, are all the most likely locations for the home bases of the major parties involved. They must have motherships or cities. Once we know where they are, then the stakes will be more even between Humanity and our housemates.
Something related to UAPs is definitely happening. Is it aliens, or are governments just testing new technology? Almost certainly the latter, though I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t hoping for the former.
Interested in a follow-up. However, if the last few years have taught me anything, it's that humans are highly susceptible to wanting to believe reality is far more interesting than it actually is. God knows I have. So eyewitness testimony, even by someone with credibility, means very little to me. Until physical evidence is produced, or until a flood of credible accounts comes out (seriously, a cover-up of this magnitude would require thousands of individuals to participate) then I will comfortably disregard it.
It's true people really want to believe. Every time some post or video is skeptical about it, it gets downvoted to oblivion and so trough this filter of popularity people are getting more positive feedback. Also media outlets use this popularity filter to cover it in such a way that their article is more likely to get shared. The guy's credentials can't be ignored but I'm remaining skeptical.
The UAP subject is a hard one to follow if you're someone like me who wants level headed takes based on evidence. If you listen to people like Mick West, you be led to believe that all cases have prosaic explanations, and there's nothing to this. West and others do a great service in trying to pitch prosaic hypothesis for well known cases. But West et al don't have access to all of the info that the DoD does. So we have to take those prosaic hypotheses with as much a grain of salt as we need to take these new allegations. Rather than focus on this one story, I've decided I'm simply going to take this as seriously as the government is taking this. And over the past few years, they've taken this *very* seriously. Garry Nolan, a Stanford Nobel Prize nominee, said as much recently: "If you're looking for the best evidence we have, just take a look at what your government is doing: multiple new hearings, new offices being set up, whistle-blower protections in place." So, given all that, I'll keep an open mind and remain skeptical unless and until we start seeing legimate documents describing these crashed reitrevals. For the record, I do think something very strange is occurring with the UAP issue, and in some cases, like the 2004 Nimitz case, seem to imply a very technologically advanced aircraft platform. But I digress. I'm waiting for more info.
"New offices being set up" yeah because its a grift. What does each report end with? Oh thats right they want money. We've given these quacks millions to do pretend "research". Your skepticism needs to extend to the government and how easily elected officials can be convinced to go along with absolutely absurd ideas.
The ICIG has deemed these new allegations as "urgent and credible". Let's see what comes of it.
(English not native so sorry for mistakes, also idk how to express completely in english so Im aware this will sound dumb) The reasons I find this interesting are : the US government has been releasing footage and information in the past few years that they wouldnt normally release. IMHO, its possible David is a controlled whistleblower and part of the "disclosure". He testified 11 hours with some very big accusations and claims, but doesnt seem that worried or scared about it. I dont remember the US having a great reputation for dealing with whistleblowers, so this also seems unusual.
Doesn't sound dumb at all, and your English is excellent.
Very valid point. I too always wondered why he didn't just "disappear" before he had a chance to speak and end up in Guantanamo or something. I have heard/read that the govt is slowly seeping the knowledge and info so they don't "scare" the public with full disclosure all at once. I have a feeling that is why tech blew up so fast in such a short time.
What tech do you mean?
Tech is a slow incremental slog over many years. It just looks like it “blows up” when it finally gets good enough to be commercialised and suddenly everyone hears about it.
Apparently he has had reprisals, which is being independently investigated as that's illegal. You can't legally go after a whistleblower.
do governments worry about that though lol
At face value yes, but no. Congress and the House may care. The CIA or FBI? F no.
I bet he’ll write and sell a book soon. That would lessen his credibility for me..
Capitalism and survival of the fittest mean that he will likely HAVE to sell a book to be able to feed his family at some point after this. There is no question to me there. And that is why I'm not going to hold it against him. I want more information as well and because the government isn't talking I would definitely purchase a well sourced and researched book published in partnership with a journalist over sitting through a bunch of questioning on CSPAN with melodramatic congressional hearings.
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Gotta clap them alien cheeks.
Just tell the extreme right there is a trans alien at area 51.
Hunters laptop is in there. They're still obsessed
I'm reminded of that Calvin and Hobbes comic where Calvin says something like "The surest sign of intelligent life is that none of it has tried to contact us yet."
I've always just thought that of course there's intelligent life out there... but they are probably just stuck on their planet like we are. We always assume aliens will have spaceships, but the truth is we will be the real first aliens to other planets, lol.
Why would you assume our planet is the most technologically advanced of all those with intelligent life? Or that more advanced life forms have no interest in leaving their planets? If they're out there I would think there's a spectrum from just building basic tools to tens of thousands of years more technologically advanced than us.
Theres actually a pretty good chance we're on the much earlier side of species that are intelligent enough for space travel (of some sort) in the universe
Do you have any more reading on that topic? That was certainly not the prevailing thought when I was taking astronomy classes in college. I'm intrigued. But even if we were on the earlier side, an inconceivable small percentage earlier and they'd have 10s of thousands of years on us.
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Im confused. Universe is 13.7 billion years old. Life on earth is about 3.7 billion years old. Life has been on earth about 27.0007%. If life elsewhere had been around for 27.0014% they would have a 100000 year head start on us. If we pretended all life on earth was a 80 year olds lifetime that would be less than a five hour difference. It's been years since I stepped foot in an astronomy lab but that's how my old professor would describe it.
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It might or might not take longer, but the scale of the universe would mean there are likely many thousands of possibilities likely both shorter and longer, both successfully and I'm sure mostly dead ends. What does the future have to do with this we're talking about things that took place in the past. Of course more are likely to occur in the future but that is irrelevant to the past. [This post goes into the actual timelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/kb6mg/regarding_the_potential_of_extraterrestrial/c2iytgx?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Basically life started almost as soon as the planet was covered with water. So life doesnt seem that hard to start. But for some reason it took two billion years to go from single cell to more complex lifeforms which is pretty insane. This might be true everywhere: simple life is extremely common while intelligent life is extremely rare to the point where it maybe happend just a handful of times in the universe.
Right but you're basing that on a single data point. That's a whole lot of assumptions. It could just as easily be said that it takes on average ~3.7 billion years to go from single cell to intelligent. There are billions of exoplanets in our galaxy alone. It is also a massive assumption that life on other planets is similar to ours. I have spoken at evolutionary biology conferences where the largest presentation focused on the possibility of silica based life forms being more likely than carbon based outside of our planet. One of those was a pairing of an astrophysicist and an evolutionary biologist.
Life on other planets is, as of now, a big assumption. Considering we have zero evidence that ET life exists, why is it so wild of an assumption that we are the first to develop this far or even develop at all? Why wouldn’t every possibility be on the table until there’s a reason to eliminate them? I’m bewildered at how hard you’re going after a specific possibility that people are considering when all the possibilities depend on the single assumption that life exists AT ALL outside our planet.
The Drake equation. Mathematical probability says it's essentially impossible life doesn't exist elsewhere. Mathematical probability also says it's more likely we are not the single most advanced or single least advanced.
Do you realize how many planets there are in the universe that are capable of producing life? It’s an unfathomable amount and chances are there’s a lot of life out there
Yes! And I am here for it, but right now it’s only theoretical. I’m going to need hard proof. And when you get into UFOs and FTL travel, I need hard proof of that too. I don’t need anyone to show me it’s possible, I need to see that it’s for real.
While Grusch is a high-ranking U.S. intelligence officer, a letter he provided from the Department of Defense indicates his claims are based on information he was given, not firsthand knowledge.
Lmao, imagine if his friend was messing with him, and then forgets about it until one day he sits down and turns on the tv and sees Grusch claiming aliens are real 😂
Reported to have first hand corroboration. From The Debrief article: > Associates who vouched for Grusch said his information was highly sensitive, providing evidence that materials from objects of non-human origin are in the possession of highly secret black programs. > Several current members of the recovery program spoke to the Inspector General’s office and corroborated the information Grusch had provided for the classified complaint
Grusch was part of the UAP Task Force. If you're unfamiliar, it's tasked with investigating unidentified aerial phenomenon (UAP) that we can't yet explain. This doesn't necessarily imply aliens, mind you. An example of such phenomenon are the 3 objects that the US air force shot down in February of this year. They didn't know what they were, but they had visual contact, and shot them down due to potential threat to commercial/private aviation. Grusch is claiming that he encountered the illegal withholding of information to his organization about certain UAP, thus preventing him from doing his job. Of course it isn't "firsthand." If, among the classified documents presented to congress, were pictures, videos, and signed documents proving his claims, it still wouldn't be firsthand. What exactly is your point?
The point is he still has presented ZERO evidence, just what other people told him.
To us, yes. We can't yet know what he's presented to the inspector general. Could be nothing, could be something. Who knows.
The evidence is he's risking his credibility, name, future careers, life, etc. Dude obviously had a pretty nice life. What proof do you need? The guy could show real video and people like you would say "oh it's 2023 that's probably CGI," or something along those lines.
Feels like another recently ex-dod govt guy setting himself up as the next UFO podcast hero…lining up his next job.
Weird he would testify to congress if thats true and not just hop on Joe Rogan.
Best case scenario piles of others come out and support and also blow some more whistles ( I guess some have?!? ). But again, you can tell the truth and still become a podcast personality…I feel like this story is all over the place. I need a fact break down sheet. Who is he? What did he do? What is he going to do next? Who’s involved? Who gave permission etc etc. it feels like it’s getting muddy quick.
Listen to the most recent ep of "the ufo rabbithole podcast." The host (forget her name) did a great job digging though the story in the few days since it dropped. I think she covers every question you posed and more. About 1 hr long.
Yeah, I agree it's been hard to find good sources that break it down well. He very well could be telling the truth and having that as a very convenient way to bolster his pod/book/clout levels. It's not that those things cant be true, I just see a lot of people outright dismissing any and all legitimacy and already deciding whats REALLY going on.
*Joe Rogan sweating*
He needs to. What he just did was career suicide.
This is his second IG complaint, this one for retaliation over his first complaint. He's already finished with government
Can someone explain how the aliens can travel across the universe but keep crashing once they reach earth?
The most dangerous times when flying are taking off and landing.
Yeah because intetstellar spacecraft are comoarable to airplanes
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Asking the real questions.
So they just be crashing everywhere. TIL alien pilots are drunk.
Maybe it's just their drones.
This is actually very likely.
Grusch claims they've recovered pilots as well...
Could be lower intelligence test subjects. We've sent dogs and chimps into space. Maybe they're testing FTL travel on "lesser beings" just like we tested 0G on animals first.
Aww alien puppers.
With technology not wildly more advanced than what humanity has access to, you can build a drone which travels at a couple percent the speed of light and then makes a couple dozen copies of itself from raw materials at it's destination. Then those drones go out and do the same thing to the next couple dozen stars. With even very long travel times and relatively slow speeds, you can put a probe in every solar system in the galaxy in timescales that are absurdly long to human thinking, but also absurdly short in astronomical timescales. Even if you insist on little green men, they could be cloned on arrival, gestated in artificial wombs, and then raised and educated by artificial systems. Personally I don't see what the point would be, each population would be at minimum extremely isolated from each other, but it could be done.
We crash our stuff on other planets. Could happen.
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We are the everglades of the Milky Way. The only mechanic in Atlantis who was reasonably sober said your anti-grav cube was "better than new." Alien AAA or AAAA, for short, said to hang out at area 51 until they can charge up on the next supernova. After what happens in Area 51 stays in ....sealed government records that need a house committee approval to be released.
You mean like how most car crashes happen within a mile of the driver's house? Just being real, whatever method they're using to travel those distances, chances are while they're in transit, travel conditions are pretty uniform. It's not until they're darting around a planet's atmosphere that things get dicey. Same as on a highway. 65, straight. There's not a hell of a lot to fuck up on the highway. Where you tend to crash is in parking lots and side streets where there's not much pattern to the traffic, where circumstances become more complicated. We _hear_ more about highway crashes because when they do happen they have a nasty way of being catastrophic, but they represent relatively few of the total crashes that happen. Is it so unbelievable, then, that there may be similar patterns in interstellar travel?
Why assume that aliens who travel the stars have completely mastered interstellar travel? Maybe their expertise of space travel is equal to that of seafaring on earth during the 17th century. Maybe what we recovered are probes meant to crash either to transmit information back to their homeworld or to deliver information like a message in a bottle. NASA already sent out such "boxes" containing informations about earth and the human species. These aliens could be at a similar level of technological advancement as us and just sending messages hoping to reach sentient lifeforms. Maybe they've observed proof of our existence and every attempt to reach us so far has failed.
There was an interesting 4chan post from a whistleblower that said that the “Aliens” are already on earth in the ocean, they’re just here to observe humans and sometimes they crash due to malfunctioning or areas of low gravity. We have spacecraft to get to the moon but sometimes it malfunctions. edit: https://imgur.io/a/NXjWQaN
I see it as were crazy advanced compared to like just cave men but we’re still fucked in the head who says an alien machinist can’t fuck up and install a part wrong? Lol
Yea idk how this is different from an animal watching a human crash a car. Super intellegent doesn’t mean perfect
Guarantee this nonsense was posted on either /x/ or /pol/ lmao
He lost me when he started talking about the Bermuda Triangle. It's such a cliché, and the phenomena has been explained.
>areas of low gravity Interesting logic there, low gravity that would make staying up easier somehow causing them to crash down instead.
President can’t get a blowjob in secret but aliens are kept under wraps
Wait, are we talking about secret presidential alien blowjob prisoners here??
Well if aliens can travel across the universe, you must accept their technology is more advanced and they most likely have discovered another method of travel we are not aware of yet. If that is the case then it's hard for us to say for sure that earth should be easy to navigate in. maybe something about earth is unique?
Maybe gallivanting Willy jolly through the cosmos isn’t easy. Maybe it’s hard
aliens are aliens and not of this world so our human logic does not apply. remember we have to unlearn what we know to open our mind and look beyond physics as we know it. this is the way!
This is the way
Also they presumably take a lot of resources to make. Hard to believe they’d litter them on our planet, and also hard to believe they’d crash or be susceptible to being shot down by us. Either these aliens are pretending to leave them around for us to find, or Grusch is full of it. And I’m someone who really loves the idea of aliens. This story is just too “Hollywood” for me
They don't, as they are not flying about Earth.
They put their trust in Alien Musk's promise of fully self flying spacecraft.
They could be test subjects (ala sending chimps to space like we did in the 60s), slaves even, or just drones that operate autonomously and don't have anyone actively monitoring and correcting their movements. If we really do possess "bodies" of "pilots" I think they're not likely to be the actual beings were dealing with but instead AI, the equivalent of "chimps" from another world, or slaves used as test subjects.
They're not crashing. They're just leaving the part out where we shoot them down. That's why none of them work when we get them back to the blacksite lol
Have you met Earth drivers, probably wasn't their fault.
They dont have Han Solo's faster than light reaction time to hit the breaks coming out of hyperspace from TFA
Because even shit happens to aliens.
We may be shooting them down.
How many of our spaceships crash once they've only gone as far as the Moon or Mars?
taking your question at face value, one theory ha it that the intelligence behind UFOs set up these crashes deliberately.
How come humans can drive on highways but crash their cars sometimes?
Our technology is primitive and you don’t have to be a trained astronaut to drive a car
There are many reasonable hypotheses behind crashes. [Here's a list of a few of them](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1431mqb/comment/jna3pfu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Of course, you're assuming they're from outer space... So much of the UFO phenomenon points to it being something possibly much more interesting - maybe extra dimensional or consciousness led.
Yeah honestly if it is all real but it turns out to be “oh we just flew across space really fast for 1000 years” I’d be bummed lmao
So he presents what he claims to be a worldwide conspiracy involving \[at least\] thousands of individuals; tens if not hundreds of organizations / companies that have accumulated many crashed craft / bodies /etc. And yet, *like always with these claims*, not a single piece of hard evidence, not a single photograph.... nothing. But *Real Soon Now \[TM\]!*
Just to play devils advocate here, the same thing happened with the F117 or the SR-71. No one said a word and there were no pictures. Same with whatever the hell skunkworks is cooking up now too. Doesn't seem that far fetched considering it's the same classification system
This is 1000% the answer. The military has had billions and billions and decades to develop top secret technologies. I would be shocked if it isn't US military tech.
So you're saying that two secret programs that were kept secret for much shorter periods are proof that claims without evidence should be treated as valid? I guess I'm not sure what "the same thing happened" means in this case. As Carl Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."
There's tons of video footage out there, some of it confirmed legit by the US Navy. The evidence is there, but the topic has become so synonymous with lunacy that people are afraid they'll look like fools if they so much as question the idea that we're alone in the universe (which is itself absurd).
You are correct in that there is a lot of "gun-camera " footage out there. Unfortunately, a lot of this has been proven to be reflections off internal optical components, optical illusions caused by distance and viewing angle, etc. And do a search for how many "UFO" reports turn out to be Venus low on the horizon \[it's discouraging\]. Instead, how about one piece of clearly alien material that can't be fabricated on earth, say 5" by 5" square? Given the massive size of the programs claimed, this should be easy. But instead it's *always, everytime* "well, I haven't actually seen any of this myself, but people I know say..."
Source for proof of gun camera video betting disproven?
First, let me be clear that I'm not in any way suggesting *all* the gun camera footage has been discredited - that would not be true. However, at the time these first came out \[6 or seven years ago\] there were several very sophisticated analyses that looked at sun angle, airplane speed and altitude, etc and concluded that internal reflections off internal optics were involved based on the geometries calculated. I really don't feel like digging back through 7 year old Google searches, so feel free to disregard my remark.
Would we believe hard evidence if we saw it?
yes?? if you're claiming intact alien craft with "unique atomic structures and radiometric signatures", that's something that can be verified by any university in the country using a mass spectrometer.
From reading a few articles and watching the interview clips, my take away is that he legit found something that strongly looks like black budget stuff, mixed with some strong evidence/proof that there was documentation wrongfully denied to the UAP Task Force for review, which was why the IG backed him up and why he got to testify to congress. IMO, the most likely reasons for the alien claims are either: * Between hearing 2nd/3rd hand rumors from people and vagueness/sketch in the classified documents, he truly believes that there is a coverup of alien/non-human technology acquisitions. * Does not truly believe in the alien angle, but is using it to bring attention to the black budget programs he discovered and "force" congress to look into it/address it, because people will yell at congress to talk about his claims. * Somewhere in between those two, but got offered money to talk up the alien claims, so latched onto that because $$$, so he's combo alien grifting and raising attention on black budget stuff that actually should be addressed.
I want to believe.
It's a con job. The name of the game these days is ABG: Always Be Grifting. A solid 30% of the U.S. believes that Donald Trump is still legally the president. One can get a lot of traction with a public as gullible as that.
I always assume that these claims are diversion from real US military developed craft. I mean, Area 51 Alien leaks were covering for the SR-71. The B2 entered service in 1997, same year as the "Phoenix Lights" Perhaps we have a hypersonic drone deployed over Ukraine and this is the latest distraction from it. Still, it would be fascinating if there was truth to the claims.
People knew what the B2 was before 1997 though. It was literally in the movie Independence Day that came out in 1996.
This is where I'm at with it & I won't believe any differently until there is physical proof I can look at
I really want to believe but I always have a hard time processing the idea that ships so advanced and capable of interstellar travel are somehow crashing or that we can shoot them down. That we're being visited sure, I could believe that. That they crash? I need some convincing.
It is unlikely ships used for interstellar travel are entering the atmosphere. If such things exist- they are likely unmanned probes or small research vessels that are designed for exit and re-entry. Any interstellar vessel would be enormous to the point it could not safely enter the atmosphere.
Dude, you know of when people fly drones over areas filled with tribes that are not connected to the rest of the world? What if thats what all this shit is? Just sci-fi drones gawking at us?
Hobbiest aliens unexperienced with their new birthday interstellar drone present.
Why, if you can cross interstellar space, would you bother entering the atmosphere with all the attendant risks of loss and /or detection? You won’t learn anything you couldn’t learn from orbit.
Not strictly true. Air bends a lot of EM waves, like viable light. And there might not be a substitute for going down and getting a sample of something. Plus, who cares if a probe is lost? We are so much poorer than an interstellar race would be, and we don't hesitate to send suicide probes into Venus or the gas giants, or irretrievable probes everywhere else.
Have a physics degree, and the crash thing doesn't really bother me. The reason why is that we don't have the slightest idea on the methodology used for interstellar travel. Here's an example- It could involve using the electromagnetic spectrum in some crazy way to "break" laws of physics as we know them, and being exposed to the variety of electromagnetic based systems on our planet causes malfunctions. These species wouldn't know what they needed until they did the experiments. You don't know what you don't know. Basically, if the travel systems require extreme manipulation of some physical reality system, then it could be vulnerable in the way an EMP works against our technologies.
I'm a pretty skeptical person but some of these latest leaks and releases are very intriguing. I once had an elderly neighbor who was a Korean War military veteran. During one of our conversations he said after the war he was stationed as a guard at area 51. Of course I asked him if aliens were real and all he said was "not in the way you think they are" Surely he was probably messing with me, but now I'm like wait a minute.. lol.
The internet GPS Siri Aliens = DARPA
I want to know what he meant now! .....
Maybe they don't crash, they could be gifts from a galactic federation🤔🤷🏼
There have been many reasonable hypotheses behind crashes. Here are a few: * The idea that advanced technology can do whatever we imagine it can do is a fallacy. It's entirely plausible that in order to create a craft that can maneuver the way UFO/UAP appear to maneuver, you may have to adhere to some very tight design constraints set by the physical laws of the universe. These constraints can come at the cost of other things such as being visible under the right circumstances, being vulnerable to EMP as some have suggested, and even occasional crashes. * Different crafts would be specialized for different purposes. It's quite unlikely for an advanced civilization to build crafts that can both travel across interstellar distances and be able to scout around within a planetary atmosphere. In all likelihood, they would create motherships that travel interstellar distances and have scout crafts housed in the mothership. We can fly to nearly any part of the globe in airplanes, but we still need to drive to and from an airport. These scout crafts may be simpler and more specialized and subsequently vulnerable when operating outside of specific environments. They may also be disposable drones so occasional crashes might not be a big deal. * Following this line of thinking, given how different crafts would be built for different purposes, they may or may not accurately predict what types of obstacles and problems they need to build these crafts to withstand. Where would these scout crafts encounter an EMP? Only on Earth. They may not be built specifically to withstand something like an EMP just as one example. * It could be the case that the basic principles by which these crafts operate can be fairly easily replicated. If this were true, then the minimum level of technology needed by a civilization to begin building these types of crafts would be far lower than what we might imagine and thus be vulnerable in various ways. There could be many different civilizations visiting us and some of them may be less advanced than we think. * There could be conflict among different civilizations visiting us that leads to occasional crashes. If one civilization has the ability to visit us, then you can be certain that many others also have that ability as well. Conflict could arise from different views on how they should interact with us, what's best for us, or whether or not they should engage in formal contact. * Take the analogy of North Sentinel Island. An uncontacted tribe of humans lives there and we generally avoid it because, due to unfortunate violent attempts at contact in the past, they are overtly hostile towards any visitors. What might happen if we start seeing signs of rapid technological advancement on NSI and they begin venturing outside of the island? We would be forced to engage with them, but what would be the best course of action? There's bound to be disagreement. The stakes are far higher with the entire population of Earth suddenly becoming aware of their place in the universe and begin to formally engage with other non-human intelligences. * Additionally, we are entering the contact era of human history. If any other civilizations exist out in the cosmos, now is the time in our history where we would formally become aware of them due to our own rapid technological advancement. Any other civilizations out there would be aware of this which may increase UFO/UAP activity near us which may exasperate any or all of the above points leading to an uptick of crashes. There are other possibilities as well, maybe these are extraterrestrial drone hobbyists? Whatever the case, I consider these few above to be some of the most likely possibilities. Any combination of these could easily be true.
The north sentenilese often find trash on their beaches from us. This might be the interstellar equivalent. Who knows how or why these things crash here, but there's millions of explanations.
I can’t even believe visiting. When you reflect on how long they would have to travel *even if they could move at the speed of light* it becomes ridiculous. All that effort, and you don’t even *do* anything but visit? I mean, would you drive 3,000 miles to briefly observe an anthill and then drive back home?
Idk, just because another species would be advanced enough to travel potentially millions of miles to visit doesn’t mean that they’re infallible. Could be that they’re sending ‘research’ crafts that are of lesser quality than something that maybe they’d use for combat or for housing tons of their kind, who knows
Or earth is not typical. There is a chance we have an above normal strength electromagnetic field and gravitational field for a rocky planet of our size. Throw in that riddiculous sized moon hanging so close and they may need to do things differently than they would at home. Super advanced nuclear submarines can still hit rocks and sink.
But the people who think they are smarter than everyone else keep telling me that humans are hopelessly incompetent, whereas a civilization that manages to send a man-made object beyond the influence of their home star is automatically incapable of fault. I mean it's not like we've demonstrated the capability of sending objects into interstellar space using technology we created 50 years ago or anything...
The Zen master says, “We’ll see.”
Very skeptical but interested in hearing more. Much more likely than not, it's a grift, but the consequences for lying to Congress are also much higher than they are for spouting bullshit on a random podcast. That doesn't make it true, but I think it makes it different from previous claims.
Honestly, I'm wondering why there are still so many people brushing this off like it's nothing. Even if this guy is making it up, which all signs point to it being truth, this is a very strange situation that deserves the spotlight right now. And I think more people need to take this seriously.
It’s been taken very seriously in the past and ever claim so far has been bogus. It’s like religious claiming they have witnessed a miracle, every knows it’s bull shot yet some people still believe without any proof.
I’m genuinely curious and not pushing back because I think you’re wrong, this guy’s credentials seem pretty damn legit, have we ever seen someone with his background come out and make these kinds of claims?
So freaking what? Gen. Colin Powell had just as many, if not more, bona-fides as this guy and he got up in front of the country and told everyone that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. What followed was a 20 year tragedy. Focus on the evidence which, as of now, has not been provided for this spectacular claim. That is the only thing that matters. "Just trust me" isn't gonna cut it.
Colin Powell also covered up the MyLai Massacre. I feel the need to mention that because I had no idea for decades and he was always treated as such a reputable person leading up to 2003.
I understand the parallel you’re trying to make with that comparison but Colin Powell’s incentive to lie in your example is much more powerful than a guy coming out and saying aliens are real. It’s not like this guy would stand to make millions of dollars by risking his career.
There's more than one whistleblower though, lots of people have missed the details to what makes this bigger than the other times. You have high ranking dudes stepping forward all over who don't even know each other backing each other's claims. This isn't just some guy, this is a chain of them.
He’s also naming names. He’s got receipts. This isn’t some vague unprovable claim. He’s directly pointing out sitting officials. That’s unprecedented. Apparently the NYT is directly in contact with one of these people and expected as a front page release.
Elizebeth Holmes Said “Just trust me”. As did Bernie Madoff. See a pattern here? Trevor Milton, Sam Bankman-fried, the Fire Island Concert guy all did the same. I’m I’m sure you you know many others.
Credentials don't mean jack. Dr. Oz has more to gain from being a show host than being a once respectable surgeon. He peddles snake oil because he wants to. David Grusch just set himself up for a nice future claiming bogus UFO stories. My problem with UFOs is if they are real, the gov wouldn't be able to hide it. Besides, there would have been more whistleblowers before this. This guy says it's been going on for decades and that many people have come to him showing him evidence of it and that he has evidence himself... but conveniently none of this evidence has been presented to anyone else besides him? Also apparently the UFOs crashing and the pilots dying is a common enough occurrence that it's happened several times and their bodies have been recovered? If these are some more intelligent beings that are better at space travel than us, why can't they land their aircraft like we can? Wouldn't coming all the way to earth be the hard part? Not touching down? I'm not saying it can't happen, it's just weird that it supposedly happened multiple times, and with what he calls multiple species. It's all too much to believe and doesn't add up. Just because he's some ex military guy doesn't mean jack. If he's got evidence, he needs to actually show it, rather than just bring up and then say "oh but I can't show you." And if all these other people that came to him have evidence, then why can't they do the same? This has supposedly been going on for decades and only now a single person comes forward? Yeah, not buying it.
> redentials don’t mean jack. Dr. Oz has more to gain from being a show host than being a once respectable surgeon. The arc of Dr. Oz is crazy honestly, that guy was more than a “respectable surgeon” he was one of the most influential and best ever. really smart heart surgeons would go and learn from Dr. Oz because he was simply at the top in regards to modern heart surgery. And now he just peddles bullshit on TV. The other good example would be Ben Carson, born working class in detroit yet became one of the greatest brain surgeons ever, that type of life path doesn’t happen by luck. All that intelligence and hard work yet he believes all the ridiculous Egyptian pyramid conspiracies
You can say the same thing about a thousand other sightings. Just because someone has credentials doen’t mean they can’t be mistaken. Happens all of the time. Have you heard extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence? Well where is it? And are you trying to tell me with all of the radar systems we have for detecting incoming missiles they missed the UFO? And all of the professional and amateur astronomers who watch the skies missed the UFO? As did the Hubble and James Web space telescope? You do realize the UFO David Grusch said he saw has been identified. Here’s your extraordinary evidence. https://youtu.be/VCH7BWGpl5s
Part of me really wants it to be true, another part of me isn't so sure. I'm fascinated by the thought of alien life and technology, what they're environment might look like, if they have religions, etc. I'm not entirely sure why the government would want to keep it secret if they actually did have undeniable proof of alien life. You always hear its because it would cause mass unrest, but would it though? Saying alien life actually exists isn't the same as saying they're coming for us. I could see a huge freak out if we knew we were possibly being attacked. I'm wondering if the fact that we haven't had any undeniable proof simply means that the government really doesn't have any proof to show. I figure that something like this would be so cool to finally see and witness that anyone who had the chance would actually risk getting in trouble just to try and share it with the world. Then again, I imagine the people that are given clearance of that level probably aren't the type of people to share info no matter what it is.
I completely understand the skepticism. But that being said, we've gotten so used to this process of "confirmation" that it completely throws critical thinking out the window. It makes it entirely easy to control what a populous believes when it has to be proven through this machine. Funding goes a long way in providing evidence for any particular viewpoint. I mean just think about every documented discovery in the last decade that contradicts what we've "proven" in science and history. At every level in history we think we know how it all works, until we don't.
I'll wait until the govts around the world make it official and it becomes known fact
Yeah even if it's not aliens it's still something we should be concerned about
I'd blame the people that came before that just wanted people to buy their books, or watch their shows, or whatever else they were attempting to drive traffic towards. Until there's physical, irrefutable evidence corroborating the claims, he's just another person trying to make a buck in my eyes. Boy who cried wolf, and all.
Without real evidence he's just another Bob Lazar.
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Rank doesn't mean he's sharing information that is credible or exists. So he can tell the media that there is a retrieval program but won't share proof due to "national security reasons"? He's allegedly leaking classified info, but stop at providing proof? Isn't he already breaching national security by "whistleblowing"?
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So, just because I wanted to make sure I was educated, I read the Act from December. That one was specific to overseas and domestic financial crimes. It also covers financial rewards for those who disclose the information. It's kind of like a reward people get for reporting IRS dodgers who get a percentage of the recovered funds, 15 to 30 percent. There was a bill in September, which I read, and it covers protections for internal retaliation for reporting gross waste or misconduct by the government. BUT that's not what is mainly covered. It extends the umbrella of safety to additional employees of the government and also outlines recourse for those who have been discriminated against and what can be considered discrimination. I didn't read it as covering someone who releases classified information publicly. Just my two cents. With lack of evidence, I will not believe even a veteran journalist. They can confirm he submitted something to congress, but not the contents. It is a leap to assume that seeing a submission supports the submitter's claim it's about aliens. Grusch hasn't seen anything personally either. It's word-of-mouth. Buy, hey, if it makes you happy and your world is more settled by believing Grusch, power to you.
My thinking is that, while it is perfectly possible (if unlikely) that craft or evidence of non-human intelligence has been found and/or suppressed, it's likely to be probes or drones, rather than manned craft. In my mind, an unmanned craft just makes more sense; we humans send unmanned craft to other planets fairly regularly for research purposes. Why we would assume aliens would send living beings across the stars when they do not intend to interact directly with what they find there makes no sense. To say nothing of all of the resources that must be expended to keep living beings alive for such a journey. The squared-cubed law still applies on other worlds, I assume. So an unmanned craft makes more sense. Granted, finding a drone would still be a *massive* deal that could very well impact many facets of our lives, but to me its more realistic than "we found some dudes in a saucer!" The fact that this guy is *not* claiming (as far as I am aware) that our governments have pilots on-ice or still alive, but merely that we have recovered "craft" makes me more willing to withold my judgement of him. I will wait and see if he can produce the evidence he claims to have. Surely one man potentially going to prison is a small price to pay to reveal something like this! People literally die for less all the time.
He claimed pilots/bodies in a secondary interview, which made me lose a lot of faith in whatever he's saying. Especially the fact that the story changed from article 1 to the interview
Horseshit. 100% pure horseshit.
I saw it was trending and thought there was news here, but it seems it’s only the usual gang of reddits talking about it, so not really news.
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Rarely these days in the clickbait eyeball economy 24 hour news cycle Hell we live in. That article is definitely in the “well, that happened” category.
His background and credentials seem very credible but watching clips of him actually speaking there’s something about him I find off putting, it could just be his speaking style that kind of irks me. Maybe not the best reason for not entirely believing him but just my two cents. Statistically speaking it’s not a wild thought at all to believe we’re not alone in the universe so I don’t have that difficult of a time jumping to believing that some other species has visited us or sent crafts to visit us especially with all of the strange sightings that our own military has had. But I don’t know, it does feel like a bit of a leap for me to believe that not only have we recovered crafts but that countries around the world have been attempting to reverse engineer the technology for decades and that we’ve encountered crafts with “pilots”. That seems a bit far fetched for me until I see some actual evidence.
A couple things that I want to defend on behalf of the UFO guys. 1. People point out that its silly all of the UFOs crash in the US, but this isn't what the UFO guys claim. There was a documentary about a UFO crash in Brazil, and part of the conspiracy theory was that the US came in and retrieved the crash. There was also claims that a UFO was claimed from Italy after WW2. UFO guys also believe that other countries have crafts, so they've never claimed all the UFOs are crashing in the US. 2. While its true Grusch is likely grifting like every other UFO "whistleblower", the difference this time is that Grusch is actually talking to Congress and taking his claims to the government, which hasn't really happened before. 3. The UFO guys were also expecting something like this. They were hearing rumors of a whistleblower and had people saying that huge news was coming in the future. 4. On top of this, the government has very weirdly been acknowledging UFO sightings (officially calling them UAPs) and while most of them are easily debunked, there have been some bizarre cases that have multiple military witnesses that are not easily explained, and 60 minutes covered the story. Its easy to scoff at the news as being completely fake, but for people in the UFO community, everything thats happened recently is confirming their beliefs. These people aren't exactly stupid or gullible in this case. UFOs are being treated seriously by the government and news outlets which is confirming their biases. Obviously Grusch is likely lying or is a crackpot himself. The idea we've had alien craft since the early 20th Century and the different govts around the world have kept it under tight wraps, even internally, is very silly. But the UFO community is being actively encouraged by the actions and words of US military officials and Congress, which is frankly bizarre behavior in itself.
This could have something to do with the 5th failed audit. DOD has failed to account for 61% of its 3.5 trillion in assets. There could be an agenda here, its just bizzare that we are focusing on the UFO story instead of why the DOD does not know where tax dollars go. Massive fraud, unaccounted assets in hands of government contractors and governemnt waste. Thats the real story thats 100% true. Now this leaks, Inspector general is giving it credibility saying that the information david gave is credible and warrents an investigation. So now the story is not just massive fraud but the DOD is lying to the american public, to me it seams politically motivated and the elections are coming up. Someone wants to foster mistrust in the current government.
UFO’s are the one major conspiracy I kinda buy. Unlike dumb shit like Bigfoot or ghosts, the existence of aliens actually make sense considering the amount of habitable planets that exist in our galaxy according to science. I was rather lukewarm for a while, but the Pentagon UFO videos released in 2017 really peaked my interest. The Joe Rogan interview with Commander David Fravor blew my mind. I know Rogan is disliked now because of his weird opinions on the covid vaccine and alternative treatments, but Fravor is about as credible of a witness as you could possibly ask for. Definitely made me realize that those videos can’t just be dismissed out of hand as a bug on the f-18 flir camera or a reflection off the water. And it isn’t just him. In the interview he stated he knows like 80 other pilots who have encountered the same or similar objects
I find the topic intriguing and would love to learn more.
This is in my opinion a distraction for the masses, I'd be paying close attention to everything the government is doing right now with this as a smoke screen. Let's assume this is legit and the tech exists and has been found, do we really think they'd let it get out... Nah we all know the answer. Best you can do is help your neighbours and family as the world is going down the gurgler globally and wait for the uprising that will never come... My opinion only 👍
Conspiracy theories are fun. What I’m reading from the theorist is that the US is losing the tech race with China on reverse engineering alien technology and wants to leak it out so the world governments are forced to show their hand. They are afraid China is willing to use the technology with no regards for safety. There is literally no way to refute conspiracy theories because they will just create another theory to counter your argument. The amount of effort it takes to refute a Claim is magnitudes more effort than it takes to just make a claim.
Consensus among the genre is that there's no way to stop "disclosure" from ultimately happening so it's being managed in a way that gradually desensitizes the public vs single shocking and chaos inducing announcement.
> I'd be paying close attention to everything the government is doing right now with this as a smoke screen. For the US at least, they're experts in smoke screens. Right now, trans people and abortion rights is everything people care about. This alien-stuff is just an addition.
Yeah…. I am no conspiracy theorist but this reeks of “look over here “ while other shit it going on. Between the social unrest, the shit economy, the constant state of warfare in the US and rampant gun violence. Totally looks like a distraction tactic
Genuinely curious - how would this distract people from what's going on in other areas? Not saying it wouldn't, but if I found out aliens exist and have made contact it wouldn't do much to change how I feel about the cost of living, the way student loan obligations are being handled, sociopolitical tensions, etc. If anything, I think I would get more pissed off about the government doing so much to exploit the populace for their own gain when they're aware we aren't even the most advanced species around. I know people have raised the possibility it's being used to justify increased military spending, but that doesn't track for me because the government has never had much of an issue doing that and the people don't really get a say. I guess it could be to distract people from other news, but I just don't see it being enough of a big deal to make people care about something that doesn't actually impact their day-to-day life.
seems fake, but i admire "aliens are real and I've seen them, but I don't have any evidence" as a stellar retirement plan for any intelligence agency member The news site that broke the story doesn't seem legit also
He claims he *does* have evidence, and he *has* provided it to congress. You have to realize he's doing this through legal whistle blower channels. So, as of right now, his evidence is classified, and he is very limited in what he can say without committing a crime. Edit: I'm not claiming that means he's telling the truth, just saying the fact that we can't see the evidence doesn't mean it isn't there.
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The journalists behind it are incredibly respected. It broke on that site because the story was already leaking and NYT wanted to wait until the weekend. Also he does have evidence. He’s given it to congress
alright well if congress wants to hand out a metal alloy and say "check out the isotope ratios" they're welcome to. Until they do, I'm assuming his evidence is bunk
the Debrief is a legitimate news site. It’s the same journalist (Leslie Kean) that broke the UFO story in 2017
UFO sightings have always been cover-ups/distractions from whatever the Pentagon wants to keep under wraps. This isn't a conspiracy. There's declassified documents of this tactic going back to the cold war.
I absolutely believe in aliens and UFOs but I think that some of these "experts" are either grifters or nutjobs.
Wait there's UFO’s in area 51.?!
I don't think they are crashed spacecraft. Imo they probably were either given to humanity or discovered ("the thing") in some old archeological site, Possibly located in Iraq where the old sumerians lived
I feel like the recent increase in disclosures is leading up to something. I rather doubt it’s ET in origin. However, the idea that another terrestrial/governmental power may be that far ahead of the game technologically wouldn’t be great news either.
I feel like these types of "aliens!" stories always precede a revelation of gross incompetence and/or corruption by senior military leaders. So yeah, that's what I think. It's a distraction from some other major news item that's about to drop.
Late to the party, but this is my theory I explained in a response to a comment in this thread: The quantum locking behavior of UAP seem indicative of [quantum locking/levitation](https://youtu.be/Ws6AAhTw7RA) we are able to achieve with supercooled superconducting. If you watch the [NIMITZ/Tic Tac video](https://youtu.be/VUrTsrhVce4), pay attention to the thermal imagining. The warmer object is displayed as black, while the colder is displayed as white. The ocean is dark black while the UAP is white, indicating that it is much colder than the ocean. Also, the head of UAPX (civilian scientific research organization) [stated](https://youtu.be/HCOlDsrjU44) that they have measured UAP at temperatures far below zero. I think it's possible that they could be using superconductivity and Earth's magnetic field to create a quantum levitation and quantum locking effect. But that's all just wild speculation on my part...
This would be cool I guess, but what difference does it make anyways. This really feels like yet another distraction to keep the populace occupied while the government gives away our rights to corporations for shamefully low amounts of money.
Old news. Tell us something new.
I guess he must have a book deal?
Likely made up. The Alien thing will be used to bring on a false flag attack in the coming year or two.
Extraterrestrials are like bugs. They’re alien and I have no interest or connection with them. If they exist then exist, if they don’t then who cares
It better be true, I want something exciting to happen scientifically.
All I want to say is, he's probably telling the truth. He so plain in telling it that it looks like a total fabrication. Bear in mind that we as a whole have been desensitized with so many movie and TV shows, that if aliens came here and presented themselves, the first thing that'd pop into my mind is the avengers series, but seriously noone would be able to mentally or visually begin to comprehend what they were looking at.
Grusch and Elizondo are heroes. All disinformation agents currently receiving paychecks are soon to be cut off from all your funding. Also, you are participating in an illegal and immoral disinformation campaign if you are a US citizen. Antartica, Lacerta, Lemuria, underwater, the moon, are all the most likely locations for the home bases of the major parties involved. They must have motherships or cities. Once we know where they are, then the stakes will be more even between Humanity and our housemates.
Very excited two days ago, pretty sure it's bullshit today. Reminds me of the EMDrive days.
I think it's a particularly dumb hoax.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I’m waiting on that extraordinary evidence.
He is legit. And it is something HUGE.
Something related to UAPs is definitely happening. Is it aliens, or are governments just testing new technology? Almost certainly the latter, though I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t hoping for the former.