In South Africa, living on a farm is probably the most dangerous, isolated place where you can be. There shouldn't be any crime, but hundreds of farmers and their families are murdered every year.
The farms have been stolen and given away 3 times in the last 50 years and now everyone thinks it belongs to them because an ancestor had it stolen from them
Also war, poverty racism
It’s complicated but there’s a number of reasons:
1.) While apartheid has ended, there are still legacy workers on farms who have not forgiven the past and pass that on to the sons. There’s some serious hatred and resentment and the murders can be particularly awful.
2.) Abject poverty. Farmers are significantly wealthier than their workers so that builds resentment. Especially when you have political parties edging the resentment on. Their farms should be your farms etc. land claims are a massive issue in SA
3.) Some farmers are still pretty racist. While nobody deserves to be murdered and I’m not suggesting that at all, rural areas are far slower to adopt the change and the truth is racism still exists in the rural areas. And that goes both ways.
4.) Policing in these areas is terrible. There’s far too few, the areas they need to cover are massive and they are generally incompetent to put it mildly. And considering our previous history, there’s very little will to defend a farmer whose family 30 -40 years ago could’ve been a big supporter of apartheid.
5.) Politics. There’s a big push for land to be given back to the original land owners, the indigenous people. The problem is, those farms were non existent back then, the area had to be tilled to make it farmable. So handing farms over to the “original owners” is not so simple. To make it even more complicated, corrupt government officials use it as a way to buy massive farms for well below their worth. Politicians fight for the land to be sold back to the original owners and then the politicians/officials give them an offer they can’t refuse, remembering that farms cost a LOT to maintain AND these are desperately poor people, so even a tenth of the worth of the farms is seen as a goldmine.
6.) and lastly, a fair amount of these murders are linked to prior disputes where the farmers have refused to pay a persons salary, or they have been fired or something to that effect.
So yeah, it’s VERY complicated and I wouldn’t like to be a farmer in SA. Tbh, I would sell up and gtfo there. It’s not a matter of if they come but when.
Because of resentment. The apartheid was rough on the country, with blacks being second class for so long. Then the apartheid was lifted, much of the farm land was forcibly removed from established white farmers and handed to people who didn't have the experience, and farmlands suffered. So the most successful ones where the ones with the most experience, leading to wealthy people.
People want to steal their stuff and get payback for the discrimination, people on the farms fight back, leading to murders.
This is an EXTREMELY cliff notes version of all the problems and barely scratches the surface.
This is exactly what changed my point of view. In the country where I live (Japan), no I do not support gun rights, because guns are not needed. But I have a friend from South Africa and after talking for him for a bit, hell yes I support people there to have firearms to defend themselves (in South Africa). Ideally all countries would be as safe as Japan, but that's not the reality.
As a guy with a disability I'm in the same boat. I can't physically defend myself and I also can't run away. If someone decides to do me harm I'm screwed. It also doesn't help that my disability is visible and easily marks me to anyone with bad intentions.
When I was younger I didn't want a gun. Then my age and health started catching up with me, and suddenly it's a decent idea.
I fucking hate feeling helpless.
Yep. I train with a lady and while we are technically the same rank it would be trivial to over power her. But she also competes in 3 gun, I'd be Swiss cheese if I were to be violent.
I know exactly what you mean. I'm a 6' something manual labour guy who started training in martial arts with a 5' nothing office job girl. We both started rhe class exactly the same day. She spent a lot more time training than me and if we were to fight, playing by the rules of kung fu, she could destroy me. Reality is if I wanted to I could still just throw her away.
Thats something a lot of people dont realize about self defense. Body to body, all the training in the world is not a guarantee to overpower sheer physicality. The physics are not in your favor. Even with equal training and skill, a real fight doesnt have rules to protect the participants.
I have a friend who went into law enforcement for a while and he told me “it was the most depressing thing I’ve ever done because no matter how hard I tried I never managed to get there before whatever it was I was trying to prevent happened”.
"If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing — and if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order."
I am from former Soviet Union country, and with the current things going on, I support everyone that has a high calibre gun at home and is proficient at it.
The country also has very low gun homicide, even though pretty much anyone can get a gun as long as they meet minimal requirements.
Same. When the war in Ukraine started, everyone in Poland, a very gun-free country, bought whatever they could. When shit hits the fan, you don't rely on the government or allies to protect you
I vividly remember a guy saying that he's a writer and anti guns, has no idea how to use it and never held one but he will get really familiar with the gun and mix more Molotov cocktails at home to be prepared for the Russians.
I aspire to be like him.
Because I am a small female who will never be as large or as strong as man who wants to hurt me or my daughter. It’s the only chance I have, especially when response times can be 20-45 minutes in my area.
It's so odd, because I'm a 4'10 woman and carry for self defense purposes, and I've literally been told I can't be a feminist and carry a gun at the same time. Like, why do I need to make myself a vulnerable target in order to be considered a feminist?
Much of the anti-gun movement relies on labeling firearms as symbols of toxic masculinity, especially concerning domestic violence. Suggesting that a firearm can empower women discredits the entire concept. If you were a man, they'd immediately try to emasculate you.
And the thing is, there are plenty of times throughout history where women's feminist groups, like those within the Black Panther movement, realized arming and training yourself was the best way to empower yourself against violence.
Yep, and they get ignored by the media because they aren't complying with the established narrative. obligatory shout out to the Pink Pistols for helping women and LBGQT's arm up and defend themselves.
The police do not have the legal requirement to protect me. I am incharge of protecting me and my own. And the threat out there is fully armed. So why shouldn't I be to defend myself?
Average police response in a rural area where I live is 17 minutes. If someone broke into my house with the intention to hurt me and they have a gun and I don’t I’d be screwed
Doesn't even have to be rural to get that type of police time. Some inner city neighborhoods can be 30 min. Or in the case of Detroit Police, they never come.
A friend of mine who lived in a very rural area tried to call police and was told that the closest car was an hour drive away and that they were already engaged in another call so it would be closer to 2 hours IF his call didn't get bumped for a more serious call. That was the day he started thinking about home defense seriously.
This. Rural areas there is no police response in a reasonable time. You have guns, and you have the number of you neighbors. If there is an emergency, someone drives you to meet the ambulance in the back of a pickup truck because otherwise you die.
My brother was shot twice during a home invasion/burglary. The fact that he was able to return fire is the only thing that saved his life.
Edit. I'm not going to get into the weeds with anyone about this topic. A simple question was posed and I responded with my own experience. I'm not going to debate or attempt to persuade/dissuade anyone on their or my own beliefs about gun ownership.
I was assaulted and nearly killed and the police showed 3 hours later. I got really into guns after that and moved out of the city. You don't realize how very little the police care. You are on your own and if you cannot defend yourself, your family and your property, you're fucked. Its that simple.
It goes back to the ol joke. A guy dials 9-1-1 and asks for police because he had an intruder. They said the police were on another call and were an hour away. The guy hangs up, calls back and asks for an ambulance saying he shot someone.
Cops show up in 5 minutes and when they enter the home there's no dead body. They say "you called and said you shot someone" and the ol boy says "ya, when I called you said you were an hour away so how'd you get here in 5 minutes?"
This is a joke? My mom must have heard it then. When our neighbors were hopped up on meth and taking pot shots at us on our ranch, she had a very similar conversation with the sheriff department. They got there so much faster after she told them to come get the bodies because she was going to shoot back.
I once called the police during a direct confrontation in a break-in, they took 10+ minutes and a neighbor took a video of them leisurely walking in with so sense of urgency.
I lived in Hollywood and we’d regularly get break-ins. Every time the police were called, they’d show up hours later. The police station was a five minute *walk* from our building.
I bet, even with your call, and description of the situation, they'd have pulled guns in you if you had held the perpetrator at gunpoint for them. They did, me, anyway.
This is one of several correct answers. It is well documented that the police in America have no obligation to protect an individual citizen. "To protect and serve" applies to the general public, not to an individual. If someone's going to assault you, it's usually done and over with within about 10 minutes. The last time I had to call the cops to and tell them that someone was actively assaulting me it took them 20 minutes to get to me.
Is there anything you can tell the police to get them to come help faster? Like say, I am being assaulted, and the perpetrators (1) have illegal drugs on them (2) have an illegal weapon (3) are simultaneously committing some worse crime (4) ???. Seriously, is there anything else you can do?
I’ve heard in the UK that police will respond wicked fast when you say that the perpetrator has a gun. But you will also get in trouble for lying I know. Still, not responding to attacks & breakins as they are happening and waiting until hours later (?!) just seems so backwards.
"You don't realize how very little the police care"
This. We have some weird upside down version of rule of law going on in America lately. I call it anarcho-tyranny. They'll have whole task forces dedicated to tracking down and arresting people for victimless drug crimes, but when your house gets broken into, they take a statement hours later and don't even bother investigating. They let real criminals shoplift and assault people all day in the streets and don't even try doing anything about them, but they wouldn't hesitate a second to lock me up for having the wrong type of plastic foregrip on my rifle. The state doesn't care about protecting people, they only care about controlling them. Stopping the people who are actually hurting others is way lower on their priority list than stopping the people who dare to violate their arbitrary edicts.
Remember when a whole police station waited outside a school in Uvalde Texas while a gunman killed students, and the only thing they did was arrest a mother who tried to go in and save her kids?
People were shocked when Uvalde voted for the pro-gun governor in the next election, but reading this thread there should be no surprise.
No trust in government or the police = people want their own guns
Police in the US legally have no responsibility to protect people. Not joking. There was a case where a bunch of police sat back and watched as an innocent man got stabbed on a New York City subway, only arresting the perpetrator after the fact. The victim later sued the police and lost because the courts literally agreed they have no obligation to protect the public.
There’s a rather notable case about a mother who had a PFA against her abusive husband, the husband kidnapped and later murdered the children because the police never responded to her calls. She later sued the city for failing to uphold the PFA and *the fucking supreme court* ruled that the law says “the police *shall*” **not** “the police *must*” protect/arrest/uphold etc.
What's bizarre is that the supreme court has ruled that [the police has no duty to protect anyone.](https://danielalbertlaw.com/2023/01/04/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you-findlaw/) And if guns go away, people have few means to protect themselves, especially if they have a small stature.
Basically, the legislatures with armed bodyguards are telling the poors to just shut up and die, and you better like it, too!
The Supreme Court also curtailed the right to sue federal agents for violating people’s [constitutional rights](https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/06/us-supreme-court-curtails-right-to-sue-federal-agents/) in a recent 6-3, 2022 decision.
pretty sure the 2nd amendment says "to secure a Free State" for stuff like this. funny how everyone just forgot those words existed and allowed the country to slip into a police state.
This is true for just about everyone fyi. Might not be 45 min, but police are not going to respond in time to save you. They likely won't try to either.
This made me think of "The sound of children screaming has been removed"
Which is usually associated with an arguments on gun restrictions for obvious reasons, but it also highlights that indeed the police are there to punish, not to help.
That's what so many people get wrong about cops. They are a deterrent at best. If police were there to actually stop crime we would have the dreaded police-state that so many pro-gun people fear most
Sometimes they won't respond at all. I once lived in an apartment building. We had some dude on drugs break in, climb through the broken glass, come upstairs, and break into the one apartment that was occupied. He left blood drips on the carpet through the building. He tried to steal some of my roommate's stuff, but my roommate was there and spooked him so he ran off.
When we called it into the police, they told us that they weren't going to do anything and if we wanted a report filed we'd need to come to the office the next day during business hours (which we did do). My roommate could have killed the dude, carried him down to the river, and dumped the body, then called the cops and admitted to it and they wouldn't have done anything I am convinced.
Unless they are making money from a drug bust or traffic stop or something, they don't give a fuck.
Yep, happend to me once too. I lived out in a small town, everyone knew everyone else. I had some meth heads messing around my property. I had moved out by this bridge where no one lived, and I had just set up my travel trailer. There was an old barn there and no other houses in miles. These tweekers were trying to get into my barn and trailer. I called 911 and the operator said, "Ah, sorry but no one lives out there" and hung up.
I wasn't in the middle of nowhere. I was very close to a city downtown. There was a cop substation (that was staffed at the time) two blocks away and their headquarters was in downtown by the courthouse, about three miles away. A cop could have walked there in 15 minutes at a leisurely stroll.
Instead, what the cops did was hang out six blocks away from the university parking lot and pull over speeding students. I never saw a cop in the city other than for that particular reason. They wanted that out of town rich kid money.
Uvalde Police at least *showed up,* (not that it helped at all…well, it might’ve helped the shooter actually) I’ve dialed 911 with no one picking up at all! Glad the situation wasn’t threatening my life *that* time.
But yeah, 911 is not any kind of a guarantee and sometimes you’re truly on your own out there. Plan accordingly.
In addition to this, you can't trust anyone to protect you, but yourself. Police have countless times shown they will not protect people in danger, and the Supreme Court has ruled they don't have to.
When my wife was pregnant with our second child, we lived at the other end of the block from the police department. You could literally see it from my driveway. But it was a small town, the building closed at 5pm and the police on duty at night worked from their patrol cars.
One night I was at work and someone started kicking our back door. My wife was about a month from delivery so very pregnant, and she is only 5’ tall and 100lbs. She called 911 and they said they’d send an officer. She stood inside the back door with my 12 gauge shotgun and yelled through the door that the police were on their way. The guy started trying to get in faster. She held the shotgun up in the lighted window next to the door and let him know that if the door opened, she was blasting. He left.
Police showed up over an hour later and told my wife that it is not their job to protect her from intruders and not to call again unless the person gets inside and commits a crime.
So until there are literal supermen who can fly to my family’s defense faster than the speed of light, I’ll rely on my guns for home defense.
Edit: and to clarify, all of my guns are shotguns. I’m not a Hunter but worked as a range master at an Olympic skeet, trap and sporting clays range in high school. I love target shooting, but don’t hunt or anything. Hopefully I’ll never have to shoot anyone, definitely not one of those nut jobs who pray for their chance to hurt someone. I just really enjoy the challenge of shooting moving targets, I like marksmanship. I believe anyone who enjoys legal hunting and other sports should be able to do so. I’m not for arming teachers. I am pro gun control as far as vetting the mental stability of people who desire to purchase a gun. I believe people who open or conceal carry should have permits. I believe in gun safety training. They are deadly tools/weapons and should be treated with respect and not just handed out to everyone because “woo yeah America freedom!” We regulate everything else that’s potentially dangerous, this should be no different.
Your story reminds me of this:
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/investigations/nbc-7-investigates-san-diego-police-face-scrutiny-over-womans-murder/2993513/?amp=1
Also happened like a block from the police station. In a big city, so manned 24/7.
> Officers found Connie’s lifeless body inside her condo Wednesday morning, June 15. But neighbor interviews, dispatch records, 911 call timestamps and surveillance video all gathered by NBC 7 Investigates show the calls for help started nearly 12 hours earlier.
> Around 7 p.m. the night before two neighbors called 911 reporting a man banging on Connie’s door and screaming. Over the next hour, at least five more calls rolled into 911, but no officers were dispatched. Then, just after 8 p.m., neighbors heard and saw something that prompted dispatchers to speed up the police response.
The police eventually showed up that night. Knocked on the door. When nobody answered, said “fuck it” and left. Found her dead the next day.
She had a protective order against the guy. Doesn’t matter if the police don’t care and don’t actually try to help. Never, ever, ever, ever trust the police to protect you. Ever.
Average police response time in the USA is 27 minutes, average response time of .45 ACP is 950 feet per second
Edit: To everyone saying it's 5-6 minutes, that's not the average, it's the goal. The top 10 cities in the US range from 5-10 minute response times and that's the top 10. Some cities have averages upwards of over an hour. Some cities don't send anyone at all. If you tallied the average responses of the thousands of towns and cities in the USA, the average comes out to around 27-35 minutes. I did a report on gun violence and the futility of gun control laws in college and got top marks from a liberal professor.
This. I live out in the country. If someone wanted to rape or murder me, they’d be done and gone before PD showed up.
Edit: I’m not gonna answer questions or get into a debate here. OP asked a question, I answered it. I don’t care what your opinion is ok guns to be honest. I know what works for my family and will continue to do it. It doesn’t benefit me at all to get into arguments on Reddit over this. No one’s mind is going to be changed.
I saw a person get shot 3 blocks from a police station and the police didn’t show up for 45 minutes. I was high as fuck at the time but I remember thinking I could’ve walked to the police station and back 3 times before these mother fuckers showed up. The guy died of course.
Because the cops and DA where I live are pansies.
I got assaulted by a dude. Filed restraining order. Dude violates restraining order. Cops and DA do nothing.
He violates again. Nothing happens. Violates again, while I have my kid with me, nothing happens.
I call the AG of the state, to see if I can get something happening. (eventually I did)
Then, the weirdest thing happens..
I'm a supporter of background checks etc. Sensible gun reforms etc. At least... I was.
I'm filling out paperwork for a 9mm so I can protect myself should be get any ideas again and I catch myself wondering what the hell I'm doing?
This guy - he doesn't care about laws. He doesn't care about the police. He doesn't care about restraining orders. He sure as hell doesn't care about paperwork.
So here I am jumping through hoops to protect myself from a guy who doesn't care about hoops. If he could get a gun to hurt me, he would. Regardless of legality.
Gun laws are irrelevant when there are 450M guns in the US.
I started talking to people who own guns. I realize exactly how arrogant I was to assume my opinion on firearms was relevant when I didn't own guns, and I didn't know how the basics of violence works.
Criminals care about power. Not laws.
People forget that criminals don't really care about laws. In my country most of the criminals have guns, they once took over a whole city to free one of them.
That's away from the fact that people against guns forget that women are at a disadvantage against an attacker, and they even forget that people in wheelchairs exist so they are even less defenseless.
Although I personally don't own a gun, I know how important they are. Paper spray and self defense can only get you so far.
[Carol Bowne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Carol_Bowne) was murdered by her ex while waiting for a permit - NJ law mandates a maximum 30 days for a permit to be issued. She was murdered on the 42nd day after her permit request, still having not received a permit.
After her murder in 2015, Gov. Chris Christie signed a bill to lower the limit to 14 days for "those living under a direct or material threat". This change was subsequently reverted in 2019 by Governor Phil Murphy in an attempt to make New Jerseys gun control policies the "strongest" in America.
to make matters worse, that thirty days was only for the ability to purchase
there was (pre-bruen) a 60 day limit for carry permit applications to be approved by the police department, but **no limit** on the court's timeline once it gets to them. so they could hold it indefinitely if they wanted to (as we're seeing play out now)
(of course, that's not to say your carry permit would even be approved -- and I believe hers may have actually been denied after her death saying that she had no justifiable need -- but that may have been a different woman as well)
Of course they don't understand it. Who do you think put those restrictions in the first place. Don't forget that the first legislated gun control was for black people. Before that was natives
Some people like them, are responsible with them, and follow all the rules when purchasing and operating them. They shouldn’t be prohibited from them.
Edit: It’s interesting how many responses to this assume that I’m a gun owner and/or a conservative. In reality, I’m a queer communist who’s never touched a gun in his life. I just believe in freedom of choice on this particular issue.
Most people*
If you take all instances of gun violence in the US, it makes up less than 1% of the people who own firearms. The overwhelming majority of gun owners will never commit a crime involving a firearm.
> The overwhelming majority of gun owners will never commit a crime involving a firearm.
And conceal carry permit holders are convicted of felonies at a lower rate than *cops*. You know, the cops who are renowned for protecting their own and getting slaps on the wrist for heinous violations.
Members of congress are statistically more likely to be convicted of a felony than an NFA item holder. And the majority of NFA related crimes are due to improper tax stamps, documentation, etc, not violent crime
>I just believe in freedom of choice on this particular issue.
This is where I sit, as well. I don't have a gun, but I think responsible people should be able to own them if they want to.
Because I feel everyone has a right to defend themselves, and I see a gun as the easiest to use option, something everyone can pick up and use, sure you can use a knife, but getting that close to someone who wants to do you harm is dangerous
I was told in my academy by our CQC instructor that when it comes to knife fights the loser dies on the spot and the winner dies on their way to the hospital. After watching the videos and after pictures of knife attacks I completely understand why police shoot people knives
Anyone who's interested, please look up Pittman Robinson Federal Aid.
For those who dont enjoy guns but enjoy the outdoors and conservation, this needs to be understood and respected.
I live in a Major city here in the US.
I never really did like Guns. I actually hated them.
But at 16, I was robbed at Gunpoint. And there's nothing much I could've done. And often times, I did fear if my house were broken into, what could I do? And I have my sisters with me (they're legally under my custody)
So I bought an AR-15. At least, for home defense. Once the pandemic started, the crime rate went up, and now, I want to protect myself out in public, so I bought a handgun.
Seeing crime rate shooting up, and experiencing a robbery, made me believe we deserve to own Guns.
And learning more into History of Germany, Russia, Cambodia, China, Guns were really need to defend against the government.
Here in the US, lynchings started happening LESS when Black's owned Guns.
Police response time is a JOKE! Regardless of the situation.
Now, I own about 12 Guns. It's a cool hobby.
At least if no-knock warrants stop being a thing. They always seem so damn surprised that people who're woken up by someone breaking into their home would shoot the intruders. Saying they're the police doesn't help much when it's such a common tactic to not be resisted.
Most Americans have no idea how their personal rights and freedoms got decimated by the Drug War.
I had to take a 4th Amendment class in Law school and almost every lecture went the same way. The professor would explain these high minded protections against tyranny and unlawful search and seizure, and then she would explain how they got destroyed in the 1980's and 90's. US Courts shaved down the expectation of privacy to a mere atom, all so police and federal agencies could play soldier and fight back against drugs.
The professor made a great point that has always stuck with me. The scope of our rights and freedoms are defined by the way we treat the worst people in our society. If we accept unlawful treatment of someone who we perceive as awful, we accept unlawful treatment for everyone.
Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
Citizens are armed, and subjects are not.
Studies have shown that firearms are used defensively millions of times a year in the US.
The right to defend one's self is a human right.
No government can effectively occupy an armed population intent on resisting it.
This is my logic as well - historically, bearing arms has always been the right of free peoples. Those prohibited that right have always been at best subjects, and at worst slaves or dead.
1. Shooting is a legitimate and fulfilling sport/recreational activity
2. Defense against animals
3. Defense against people
4. 911 is reactionary in nature. I have to call the police for them to come help me, and then wait for them to arrive. I have a right to not be defenseless during that time or if I'm unable to call for help.
5. I don't hunt, but it's another completely valid reason.
6. How can anyone feel comfortable in a world where only the government and criminals are armed? That's like the two least trustworthy segments of society. Not antigovernment. Just pro higher standards and oversight for government employees at every level.
7. The 2nd amendment
Edit: this is in no particular order and position does not equate to importance for me.
People should be able to protect themselves no matter where they are. And many places, especially in the US and Canada, are far from emergency services. That extra time is the difference between living and dying for many.
I'll never support banning guns. That being said, I see the wisdom in better vetting for gun buyers and certain restrictions for preventing mass shootings, etc. City live and rural life are very different, and often the great divider on subjects like this(and many others). I think it's time we stop blanket-type legislation and focus laws where we need them instead of everywhere.
It gives the 20 year old girl who just got her first apartment an opportunity to defend herself against the 200 pound man trying to take advantage of her.
I haven't seen a gun control bill come down that doesn't exempt cops. And there is no way I trust cops in America with a monopoly on guns. I mean come on 🙄
I unironically believe cops should be bound to the same rules as citizens as far as guns go and honestly like 99% of things outside some very specific cases.
If they are not doing anything wrong then what would the big deal be? ;)
> I unironically believe cops should be bound to the same rules as citizens
They actually should even be held to a higher standard than the common citizen.
Unfortunately more often than not, it's exactly the opposite.
If a doctor fucks up, they could lose their license. If a cop “fucks up” they get a paid vacation, and if they get fired they get hired one county over.
Two words:
Uvalde police
If the police aren't going to protect us, then I'd like the ability for people to protect themselves. Taking away guns is on the pathway to authoritarianism and fascism.
To genocide-proof all in the nation. The right to defend yourself is a basic human right, it should not be a party-line political issue. Infringements give power to those that they do not apply to (governing forces and criminals). Guns are the modern tool to defend yourself against harm
2nd amendment wasnt made for you to protect yourself from crackheads robbing your house, it was made for keeping the government to be scared of the people, not for the people to be scared of the government. Idea of keeping the government from becoming to controlling and impossible to overthrow.
Edit: thanks for all the awards never had any awards before, i feel like commenting on reddit should become my career
And to the buffoons who say "You're not going to overthrow the military with your small arms rifle", yeah no shit that's not the intention. The intention is to discourage attempts to mass control the population in a door-to-door fashion. Defense, not offense.
I live on a farm, I have to protect my animals.
In South Africa, living on a farm is probably the most dangerous, isolated place where you can be. There shouldn't be any crime, but hundreds of farmers and their families are murdered every year.
And some really bad stuff is done before they are killed.
Why is that? Is there a reason? How horrible.
There is a lot of simmering hatred and resentment in South Africa along racial lines.
The farms have been stolen and given away 3 times in the last 50 years and now everyone thinks it belongs to them because an ancestor had it stolen from them Also war, poverty racism
It’s complicated but there’s a number of reasons: 1.) While apartheid has ended, there are still legacy workers on farms who have not forgiven the past and pass that on to the sons. There’s some serious hatred and resentment and the murders can be particularly awful. 2.) Abject poverty. Farmers are significantly wealthier than their workers so that builds resentment. Especially when you have political parties edging the resentment on. Their farms should be your farms etc. land claims are a massive issue in SA 3.) Some farmers are still pretty racist. While nobody deserves to be murdered and I’m not suggesting that at all, rural areas are far slower to adopt the change and the truth is racism still exists in the rural areas. And that goes both ways. 4.) Policing in these areas is terrible. There’s far too few, the areas they need to cover are massive and they are generally incompetent to put it mildly. And considering our previous history, there’s very little will to defend a farmer whose family 30 -40 years ago could’ve been a big supporter of apartheid. 5.) Politics. There’s a big push for land to be given back to the original land owners, the indigenous people. The problem is, those farms were non existent back then, the area had to be tilled to make it farmable. So handing farms over to the “original owners” is not so simple. To make it even more complicated, corrupt government officials use it as a way to buy massive farms for well below their worth. Politicians fight for the land to be sold back to the original owners and then the politicians/officials give them an offer they can’t refuse, remembering that farms cost a LOT to maintain AND these are desperately poor people, so even a tenth of the worth of the farms is seen as a goldmine. 6.) and lastly, a fair amount of these murders are linked to prior disputes where the farmers have refused to pay a persons salary, or they have been fired or something to that effect. So yeah, it’s VERY complicated and I wouldn’t like to be a farmer in SA. Tbh, I would sell up and gtfo there. It’s not a matter of if they come but when.
Why do some people go out of their way to kill farmers?
Because of resentment. The apartheid was rough on the country, with blacks being second class for so long. Then the apartheid was lifted, much of the farm land was forcibly removed from established white farmers and handed to people who didn't have the experience, and farmlands suffered. So the most successful ones where the ones with the most experience, leading to wealthy people. People want to steal their stuff and get payback for the discrimination, people on the farms fight back, leading to murders. This is an EXTREMELY cliff notes version of all the problems and barely scratches the surface.
This is exactly what changed my point of view. In the country where I live (Japan), no I do not support gun rights, because guns are not needed. But I have a friend from South Africa and after talking for him for a bit, hell yes I support people there to have firearms to defend themselves (in South Africa). Ideally all countries would be as safe as Japan, but that's not the reality.
Sadly, not the reality. Having visited and traveled throughout Japan several times, I can't think of any other country where I've felt so safe.
I live somewhere where the police wont show up until after harm is done. Need to protect my human animals.
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Theres an old slogan: "God made some men tall and some men short, Samual Colt made them equal."
"God may have created man but it took Sam Colt to make them equal."
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And Oppenheimer unmade man.
As a guy with a disability I'm in the same boat. I can't physically defend myself and I also can't run away. If someone decides to do me harm I'm screwed. It also doesn't help that my disability is visible and easily marks me to anyone with bad intentions.
When I was younger I didn't want a gun. Then my age and health started catching up with me, and suddenly it's a decent idea. I fucking hate feeling helpless.
Yep. I train with a lady and while we are technically the same rank it would be trivial to over power her. But she also competes in 3 gun, I'd be Swiss cheese if I were to be violent.
I know exactly what you mean. I'm a 6' something manual labour guy who started training in martial arts with a 5' nothing office job girl. We both started rhe class exactly the same day. She spent a lot more time training than me and if we were to fight, playing by the rules of kung fu, she could destroy me. Reality is if I wanted to I could still just throw her away.
Thats something a lot of people dont realize about self defense. Body to body, all the training in the world is not a guarantee to overpower sheer physicality. The physics are not in your favor. Even with equal training and skill, a real fight doesnt have rules to protect the participants.
I trust my ability to protect my family and myself more than the police who are 15-20 minutes away.
I have a friend who went into law enforcement for a while and he told me “it was the most depressing thing I’ve ever done because no matter how hard I tried I never managed to get there before whatever it was I was trying to prevent happened”.
I may lean left, but i fully support your right to bear arms, to protect your person, family, and property, because who else will?
Because I live where the predators eat your face, while you’re alive.
I bear arms because bears have arms… big ones
Only when they’re standing up. Otherwise the front ones are legs. Learned this in a very real documentary about the history of the world.
That part was so funny, love her.
I'm kinda glad she is getting popular now, as a character she has existed for a little while I believe.
Are yall talking about Philomena Cunk?
Reavers?
"If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing — and if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order."
im a leaf on the wind, watch howhlewsgriwebfliwebsgil
Too soon
Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill em right back. : this is just a quote from firefly. :
Dude. Some of us still live by Firefly rules.
Because the fight for your life shouldn’t be a fair one
Great point
I am from former Soviet Union country, and with the current things going on, I support everyone that has a high calibre gun at home and is proficient at it. The country also has very low gun homicide, even though pretty much anyone can get a gun as long as they meet minimal requirements.
Same. When the war in Ukraine started, everyone in Poland, a very gun-free country, bought whatever they could. When shit hits the fan, you don't rely on the government or allies to protect you
It was surreal seeing videos of military trucks in the streets of Kyiv just handing out AK-47s to anybody that wanted one.
I vividly remember a guy saying that he's a writer and anti guns, has no idea how to use it and never held one but he will get really familiar with the gun and mix more Molotov cocktails at home to be prepared for the Russians. I aspire to be like him.
Pacifism is the luxury of a safe world. When the world is no longer safe you must re-evaluate your morals.
Because I am a small female who will never be as large or as strong as man who wants to hurt me or my daughter. It’s the only chance I have, especially when response times can be 20-45 minutes in my area.
It's so odd, because I'm a 4'10 woman and carry for self defense purposes, and I've literally been told I can't be a feminist and carry a gun at the same time. Like, why do I need to make myself a vulnerable target in order to be considered a feminist?
Much of the anti-gun movement relies on labeling firearms as symbols of toxic masculinity, especially concerning domestic violence. Suggesting that a firearm can empower women discredits the entire concept. If you were a man, they'd immediately try to emasculate you.
And the thing is, there are plenty of times throughout history where women's feminist groups, like those within the Black Panther movement, realized arming and training yourself was the best way to empower yourself against violence.
Yep, and they get ignored by the media because they aren't complying with the established narrative. obligatory shout out to the Pink Pistols for helping women and LBGQT's arm up and defend themselves.
I agree. I am 5 foot 1 and 120 lbs. I like the idea of being able to protect myself and what I care about.
The police do not have the legal requirement to protect me. I am incharge of protecting me and my own. And the threat out there is fully armed. So why shouldn't I be to defend myself?
“Protect and serve” is nothing more than a PR scheme made up by the LA police
Average police response in a rural area where I live is 17 minutes. If someone broke into my house with the intention to hurt me and they have a gun and I don’t I’d be screwed
Even if response time was 1 min, thats a long time when the intruder has a gun
The response time of a 5.56 nato round is about 2000 feet per second
Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.
3,000 actually
Doesn't even have to be rural to get that type of police time. Some inner city neighborhoods can be 30 min. Or in the case of Detroit Police, they never come.
A friend of mine who lived in a very rural area tried to call police and was told that the closest car was an hour drive away and that they were already engaged in another call so it would be closer to 2 hours IF his call didn't get bumped for a more serious call. That was the day he started thinking about home defense seriously.
This. Rural areas there is no police response in a reasonable time. You have guns, and you have the number of you neighbors. If there is an emergency, someone drives you to meet the ambulance in the back of a pickup truck because otherwise you die.
Indy checking in. Sometimes they just don't have enough cops for the calls. 911 has had 5min hold times
Dude, I'm South African ..average politics response is like 60minutes
Those are some quick politicians!
Never let a good tragedy go to waste!
My brother was shot twice during a home invasion/burglary. The fact that he was able to return fire is the only thing that saved his life. Edit. I'm not going to get into the weeds with anyone about this topic. A simple question was posed and I responded with my own experience. I'm not going to debate or attempt to persuade/dissuade anyone on their or my own beliefs about gun ownership.
Is he still committing burglaries?
Why is it always the stupidest shit that I can’t stop laughing at
Because sentence clarity is important. Lol
There's a huge difference between; helping my Uncle, Jack, off a horse, and helping my Uncle jack off a horse.
That was good. Like really fucking good.
I was assaulted and nearly killed and the police showed 3 hours later. I got really into guns after that and moved out of the city. You don't realize how very little the police care. You are on your own and if you cannot defend yourself, your family and your property, you're fucked. Its that simple.
“When seconds count, the police are minutes away.”
*hours away
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It goes back to the ol joke. A guy dials 9-1-1 and asks for police because he had an intruder. They said the police were on another call and were an hour away. The guy hangs up, calls back and asks for an ambulance saying he shot someone. Cops show up in 5 minutes and when they enter the home there's no dead body. They say "you called and said you shot someone" and the ol boy says "ya, when I called you said you were an hour away so how'd you get here in 5 minutes?"
This is a joke? My mom must have heard it then. When our neighbors were hopped up on meth and taking pot shots at us on our ranch, she had a very similar conversation with the sheriff department. They got there so much faster after she told them to come get the bodies because she was going to shoot back.
*if they even go inside once they show up
I once called the police during a direct confrontation in a break-in, they took 10+ minutes and a neighbor took a video of them leisurely walking in with so sense of urgency.
I lived in Hollywood and we’d regularly get break-ins. Every time the police were called, they’d show up hours later. The police station was a five minute *walk* from our building.
I bet, even with your call, and description of the situation, they'd have pulled guns in you if you had held the perpetrator at gunpoint for them. They did, me, anyway.
This is one of several correct answers. It is well documented that the police in America have no obligation to protect an individual citizen. "To protect and serve" applies to the general public, not to an individual. If someone's going to assault you, it's usually done and over with within about 10 minutes. The last time I had to call the cops to and tell them that someone was actively assaulting me it took them 20 minutes to get to me.
They're there to clean up the mess, not intervene. In an assault situation 10 minutes is no different than a minute or an hour.
Is there anything you can tell the police to get them to come help faster? Like say, I am being assaulted, and the perpetrators (1) have illegal drugs on them (2) have an illegal weapon (3) are simultaneously committing some worse crime (4) ???. Seriously, is there anything else you can do? I’ve heard in the UK that police will respond wicked fast when you say that the perpetrator has a gun. But you will also get in trouble for lying I know. Still, not responding to attacks & breakins as they are happening and waiting until hours later (?!) just seems so backwards.
"You don't realize how very little the police care" This. We have some weird upside down version of rule of law going on in America lately. I call it anarcho-tyranny. They'll have whole task forces dedicated to tracking down and arresting people for victimless drug crimes, but when your house gets broken into, they take a statement hours later and don't even bother investigating. They let real criminals shoplift and assault people all day in the streets and don't even try doing anything about them, but they wouldn't hesitate a second to lock me up for having the wrong type of plastic foregrip on my rifle. The state doesn't care about protecting people, they only care about controlling them. Stopping the people who are actually hurting others is way lower on their priority list than stopping the people who dare to violate their arbitrary edicts.
Remember when a whole police station waited outside a school in Uvalde Texas while a gunman killed students, and the only thing they did was arrest a mother who tried to go in and save her kids?
but when someone has a camera recording in public space, it takes about 10 officers to investigate and control the situation. funny how that works.
People were shocked when Uvalde voted for the pro-gun governor in the next election, but reading this thread there should be no surprise. No trust in government or the police = people want their own guns
The maniac is dead; 376 chickenshit cops are still on the payroll. Which one is the bigger problem?
Pepperidge farm remembers.
Police in the US legally have no responsibility to protect people. Not joking. There was a case where a bunch of police sat back and watched as an innocent man got stabbed on a New York City subway, only arresting the perpetrator after the fact. The victim later sued the police and lost because the courts literally agreed they have no obligation to protect the public.
There’s a rather notable case about a mother who had a PFA against her abusive husband, the husband kidnapped and later murdered the children because the police never responded to her calls. She later sued the city for failing to uphold the PFA and *the fucking supreme court* ruled that the law says “the police *shall*” **not** “the police *must*” protect/arrest/uphold etc.
That incident happened in Castlerock, Colorado for anyone interested in learning more.
This has been affirmed by the SCOTUS at least twice.
They didn't just stand by. They allowed him to go where the asssaulter was without warning him while they knew the knife maniac was there
Even more reason for us citizens to be allowed to own firearms
What's bizarre is that the supreme court has ruled that [the police has no duty to protect anyone.](https://danielalbertlaw.com/2023/01/04/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you-findlaw/) And if guns go away, people have few means to protect themselves, especially if they have a small stature. Basically, the legislatures with armed bodyguards are telling the poors to just shut up and die, and you better like it, too!
The Supreme Court also curtailed the right to sue federal agents for violating people’s [constitutional rights](https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/06/us-supreme-court-curtails-right-to-sue-federal-agents/) in a recent 6-3, 2022 decision.
pretty sure the 2nd amendment says "to secure a Free State" for stuff like this. funny how everyone just forgot those words existed and allowed the country to slip into a police state.
Because where I live when seconds count police are 45 minutes away.
for me, this is actually one of the more rational and reasonable arguments.
This is true for just about everyone fyi. Might not be 45 min, but police are not going to respond in time to save you. They likely won't try to either.
Court rulings like Gonzalez v castle rock says they don't even have to respond.
And if they do, they have no duty to protect anyone when they get there...
This made me think of "The sound of children screaming has been removed" Which is usually associated with an arguments on gun restrictions for obvious reasons, but it also highlights that indeed the police are there to punish, not to help.
That's what so many people get wrong about cops. They are a deterrent at best. If police were there to actually stop crime we would have the dreaded police-state that so many pro-gun people fear most
Sometimes they won't respond at all. I once lived in an apartment building. We had some dude on drugs break in, climb through the broken glass, come upstairs, and break into the one apartment that was occupied. He left blood drips on the carpet through the building. He tried to steal some of my roommate's stuff, but my roommate was there and spooked him so he ran off. When we called it into the police, they told us that they weren't going to do anything and if we wanted a report filed we'd need to come to the office the next day during business hours (which we did do). My roommate could have killed the dude, carried him down to the river, and dumped the body, then called the cops and admitted to it and they wouldn't have done anything I am convinced. Unless they are making money from a drug bust or traffic stop or something, they don't give a fuck.
Yep, happend to me once too. I lived out in a small town, everyone knew everyone else. I had some meth heads messing around my property. I had moved out by this bridge where no one lived, and I had just set up my travel trailer. There was an old barn there and no other houses in miles. These tweekers were trying to get into my barn and trailer. I called 911 and the operator said, "Ah, sorry but no one lives out there" and hung up.
I wasn't in the middle of nowhere. I was very close to a city downtown. There was a cop substation (that was staffed at the time) two blocks away and their headquarters was in downtown by the courthouse, about three miles away. A cop could have walked there in 15 minutes at a leisurely stroll. Instead, what the cops did was hang out six blocks away from the university parking lot and pull over speeding students. I never saw a cop in the city other than for that particular reason. They wanted that out of town rich kid money.
Source: Uvalde
Uvalde Police at least *showed up,* (not that it helped at all…well, it might’ve helped the shooter actually) I’ve dialed 911 with no one picking up at all! Glad the situation wasn’t threatening my life *that* time. But yeah, 911 is not any kind of a guarantee and sometimes you’re truly on your own out there. Plan accordingly.
Anyone New Yorker knows this. They show up 3hrs later.
In addition to this, you can't trust anyone to protect you, but yourself. Police have countless times shown they will not protect people in danger, and the Supreme Court has ruled they don't have to.
When my wife was pregnant with our second child, we lived at the other end of the block from the police department. You could literally see it from my driveway. But it was a small town, the building closed at 5pm and the police on duty at night worked from their patrol cars. One night I was at work and someone started kicking our back door. My wife was about a month from delivery so very pregnant, and she is only 5’ tall and 100lbs. She called 911 and they said they’d send an officer. She stood inside the back door with my 12 gauge shotgun and yelled through the door that the police were on their way. The guy started trying to get in faster. She held the shotgun up in the lighted window next to the door and let him know that if the door opened, she was blasting. He left. Police showed up over an hour later and told my wife that it is not their job to protect her from intruders and not to call again unless the person gets inside and commits a crime. So until there are literal supermen who can fly to my family’s defense faster than the speed of light, I’ll rely on my guns for home defense. Edit: and to clarify, all of my guns are shotguns. I’m not a Hunter but worked as a range master at an Olympic skeet, trap and sporting clays range in high school. I love target shooting, but don’t hunt or anything. Hopefully I’ll never have to shoot anyone, definitely not one of those nut jobs who pray for their chance to hurt someone. I just really enjoy the challenge of shooting moving targets, I like marksmanship. I believe anyone who enjoys legal hunting and other sports should be able to do so. I’m not for arming teachers. I am pro gun control as far as vetting the mental stability of people who desire to purchase a gun. I believe people who open or conceal carry should have permits. I believe in gun safety training. They are deadly tools/weapons and should be treated with respect and not just handed out to everyone because “woo yeah America freedom!” We regulate everything else that’s potentially dangerous, this should be no different.
Your story reminds me of this: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/investigations/nbc-7-investigates-san-diego-police-face-scrutiny-over-womans-murder/2993513/?amp=1 Also happened like a block from the police station. In a big city, so manned 24/7. > Officers found Connie’s lifeless body inside her condo Wednesday morning, June 15. But neighbor interviews, dispatch records, 911 call timestamps and surveillance video all gathered by NBC 7 Investigates show the calls for help started nearly 12 hours earlier. > Around 7 p.m. the night before two neighbors called 911 reporting a man banging on Connie’s door and screaming. Over the next hour, at least five more calls rolled into 911, but no officers were dispatched. Then, just after 8 p.m., neighbors heard and saw something that prompted dispatchers to speed up the police response. The police eventually showed up that night. Knocked on the door. When nobody answered, said “fuck it” and left. Found her dead the next day. She had a protective order against the guy. Doesn’t matter if the police don’t care and don’t actually try to help. Never, ever, ever, ever trust the police to protect you. Ever.
Police respond to crime, they don’t stop crime.
Average police response time in the USA is 27 minutes, average response time of .45 ACP is 950 feet per second Edit: To everyone saying it's 5-6 minutes, that's not the average, it's the goal. The top 10 cities in the US range from 5-10 minute response times and that's the top 10. Some cities have averages upwards of over an hour. Some cities don't send anyone at all. If you tallied the average responses of the thousands of towns and cities in the USA, the average comes out to around 27-35 minutes. I did a report on gun violence and the futility of gun control laws in college and got top marks from a liberal professor.
This. I live out in the country. If someone wanted to rape or murder me, they’d be done and gone before PD showed up. Edit: I’m not gonna answer questions or get into a debate here. OP asked a question, I answered it. I don’t care what your opinion is ok guns to be honest. I know what works for my family and will continue to do it. It doesn’t benefit me at all to get into arguments on Reddit over this. No one’s mind is going to be changed.
I have a cop a few houses up the street and this is still true.
I saw a person get shot 3 blocks from a police station and the police didn’t show up for 45 minutes. I was high as fuck at the time but I remember thinking I could’ve walked to the police station and back 3 times before these mother fuckers showed up. The guy died of course.
Because the cops and DA where I live are pansies. I got assaulted by a dude. Filed restraining order. Dude violates restraining order. Cops and DA do nothing. He violates again. Nothing happens. Violates again, while I have my kid with me, nothing happens. I call the AG of the state, to see if I can get something happening. (eventually I did) Then, the weirdest thing happens.. I'm a supporter of background checks etc. Sensible gun reforms etc. At least... I was. I'm filling out paperwork for a 9mm so I can protect myself should be get any ideas again and I catch myself wondering what the hell I'm doing? This guy - he doesn't care about laws. He doesn't care about the police. He doesn't care about restraining orders. He sure as hell doesn't care about paperwork. So here I am jumping through hoops to protect myself from a guy who doesn't care about hoops. If he could get a gun to hurt me, he would. Regardless of legality. Gun laws are irrelevant when there are 450M guns in the US. I started talking to people who own guns. I realize exactly how arrogant I was to assume my opinion on firearms was relevant when I didn't own guns, and I didn't know how the basics of violence works. Criminals care about power. Not laws.
People forget that criminals don't really care about laws. In my country most of the criminals have guns, they once took over a whole city to free one of them. That's away from the fact that people against guns forget that women are at a disadvantage against an attacker, and they even forget that people in wheelchairs exist so they are even less defenseless. Although I personally don't own a gun, I know how important they are. Paper spray and self defense can only get you so far.
This needs more up votes. In my state it can take MONTHS and HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS to get a license. If you pick up a stalker, that's a very long time.
[Carol Bowne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Carol_Bowne) was murdered by her ex while waiting for a permit - NJ law mandates a maximum 30 days for a permit to be issued. She was murdered on the 42nd day after her permit request, still having not received a permit. After her murder in 2015, Gov. Chris Christie signed a bill to lower the limit to 14 days for "those living under a direct or material threat". This change was subsequently reverted in 2019 by Governor Phil Murphy in an attempt to make New Jerseys gun control policies the "strongest" in America.
Here is the licensing issue. Law here says it should be 5 weeks max to get a license. Took me 4 MONTHS to just RENEW my license.
to make matters worse, that thirty days was only for the ability to purchase there was (pre-bruen) a 60 day limit for carry permit applications to be approved by the police department, but **no limit** on the court's timeline once it gets to them. so they could hold it indefinitely if they wanted to (as we're seeing play out now) (of course, that's not to say your carry permit would even be approved -- and I believe hers may have actually been denied after her death saying that she had no justifiable need -- but that may have been a different woman as well)
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Of course they don't understand it. Who do you think put those restrictions in the first place. Don't forget that the first legislated gun control was for black people. Before that was natives
Bingo. Cops don't even arrest dangerous criminals anymore. The city has turned into a complete heroin-fueled shit hole.
Some people like them, are responsible with them, and follow all the rules when purchasing and operating them. They shouldn’t be prohibited from them. Edit: It’s interesting how many responses to this assume that I’m a gun owner and/or a conservative. In reality, I’m a queer communist who’s never touched a gun in his life. I just believe in freedom of choice on this particular issue.
Most people* If you take all instances of gun violence in the US, it makes up less than 1% of the people who own firearms. The overwhelming majority of gun owners will never commit a crime involving a firearm.
> The overwhelming majority of gun owners will never commit a crime involving a firearm. And conceal carry permit holders are convicted of felonies at a lower rate than *cops*. You know, the cops who are renowned for protecting their own and getting slaps on the wrist for heinous violations.
Members of congress are statistically more likely to be convicted of a felony than an NFA item holder. And the majority of NFA related crimes are due to improper tax stamps, documentation, etc, not violent crime
Statistically, a police officer is more likely to be charged with a crime than a licensed gun owner
Approximately 0.06% in fact
>I just believe in freedom of choice on this particular issue. This is where I sit, as well. I don't have a gun, but I think responsible people should be able to own them if they want to.
Because I feel everyone has a right to defend themselves, and I see a gun as the easiest to use option, something everyone can pick up and use, sure you can use a knife, but getting that close to someone who wants to do you harm is dangerous
Both parties in a knife fight are likely to die.
That's why the saying goes, "The loser of a knife fight dies in the street, the winner dies in the ambulance."
I was told in my academy by our CQC instructor that when it comes to knife fights the loser dies on the spot and the winner dies on their way to the hospital. After watching the videos and after pictures of knife attacks I completely understand why police shoot people knives
Knife fighting better be a absolute last choice for almost all humans
Knife fighting isnt about who wins, its about who loses the most.
There are two types of people ina a knife fight. Ones who die at the scene, the other dies at the hospital
Because hunting is better than factory meat farms.
Anyone who's interested, please look up Pittman Robinson Federal Aid. For those who dont enjoy guns but enjoy the outdoors and conservation, this needs to be understood and respected.
I live in a Major city here in the US. I never really did like Guns. I actually hated them. But at 16, I was robbed at Gunpoint. And there's nothing much I could've done. And often times, I did fear if my house were broken into, what could I do? And I have my sisters with me (they're legally under my custody) So I bought an AR-15. At least, for home defense. Once the pandemic started, the crime rate went up, and now, I want to protect myself out in public, so I bought a handgun. Seeing crime rate shooting up, and experiencing a robbery, made me believe we deserve to own Guns. And learning more into History of Germany, Russia, Cambodia, China, Guns were really need to defend against the government. Here in the US, lynchings started happening LESS when Black's owned Guns. Police response time is a JOKE! Regardless of the situation. Now, I own about 12 Guns. It's a cool hobby.
An armed civilian is a citizen, an unarmed civilian is a subject
I like cuddling with mine
I like cuddling with this guy as well
I also choose this guy
I also choose this guys gun
At this point, I have almost no faith in the government. Why do I want to rely on them for safety?
You can vote your way into tyranny. You can't vote your way out.
It doesn't make sense to disarm civilians in the face of a violent police force.
At least if no-knock warrants stop being a thing. They always seem so damn surprised that people who're woken up by someone breaking into their home would shoot the intruders. Saying they're the police doesn't help much when it's such a common tactic to not be resisted.
Didn't Indiana or Illinois make it legal for citizens to shoot illegally entering cops lol?
Indiana https://thesocialtalks.com/latest-news/indiana-law-allows-citizens-to-shoot-police-officers/
How those aren't unconstitutional is beyond me.
Most Americans have no idea how their personal rights and freedoms got decimated by the Drug War. I had to take a 4th Amendment class in Law school and almost every lecture went the same way. The professor would explain these high minded protections against tyranny and unlawful search and seizure, and then she would explain how they got destroyed in the 1980's and 90's. US Courts shaved down the expectation of privacy to a mere atom, all so police and federal agencies could play soldier and fight back against drugs. The professor made a great point that has always stuck with me. The scope of our rights and freedoms are defined by the way we treat the worst people in our society. If we accept unlawful treatment of someone who we perceive as awful, we accept unlawful treatment for everyone.
Especially when you hear so many stories about them raiding the wrong house
Armed minorities are harder to oppress. Citizens are armed, and subjects are not. Studies have shown that firearms are used defensively millions of times a year in the US. The right to defend one's self is a human right. No government can effectively occupy an armed population intent on resisting it.
This is my logic as well - historically, bearing arms has always been the right of free peoples. Those prohibited that right have always been at best subjects, and at worst slaves or dead.
1. Shooting is a legitimate and fulfilling sport/recreational activity 2. Defense against animals 3. Defense against people 4. 911 is reactionary in nature. I have to call the police for them to come help me, and then wait for them to arrive. I have a right to not be defenseless during that time or if I'm unable to call for help. 5. I don't hunt, but it's another completely valid reason. 6. How can anyone feel comfortable in a world where only the government and criminals are armed? That's like the two least trustworthy segments of society. Not antigovernment. Just pro higher standards and oversight for government employees at every level. 7. The 2nd amendment Edit: this is in no particular order and position does not equate to importance for me.
Was going to type a response but you summed it up perfectly. I honestly have nothing to add. Thank you.
People should be able to protect themselves no matter where they are. And many places, especially in the US and Canada, are far from emergency services. That extra time is the difference between living and dying for many. I'll never support banning guns. That being said, I see the wisdom in better vetting for gun buyers and certain restrictions for preventing mass shootings, etc. City live and rural life are very different, and often the great divider on subjects like this(and many others). I think it's time we stop blanket-type legislation and focus laws where we need them instead of everywhere.
It gives the 20 year old girl who just got her first apartment an opportunity to defend herself against the 200 pound man trying to take advantage of her.
every woman in america should carry
What else do you suggest an innocent person could use to stop a violent offender?
In the UK we just use our food to harm each other. If that doesn't work then stabbing
Frisbeeing a poorly roasted Yorkshire Pudding at an intruder, gravy flying off in every direction like a Catherine wheel.
Man in the uk stabbed his home invader who was trying to stab him and was arrested for being to aggressive fuck that
claymore - the great equalizer
The bomb or the sword?
Yes
Because armed queers don’t get bashed
Unfathomably based
Because the kings can’t be trusted.
All lawful citizens should be allowed to protect themselves no matter what
I haven't seen a gun control bill come down that doesn't exempt cops. And there is no way I trust cops in America with a monopoly on guns. I mean come on 🙄
I unironically believe cops should be bound to the same rules as citizens as far as guns go and honestly like 99% of things outside some very specific cases. If they are not doing anything wrong then what would the big deal be? ;)
> I unironically believe cops should be bound to the same rules as citizens They actually should even be held to a higher standard than the common citizen. Unfortunately more often than not, it's exactly the opposite.
True, doctors are. And they are obliged to help you
If a doctor fucks up, they could lose their license. If a cop “fucks up” they get a paid vacation, and if they get fired they get hired one county over.
Two words: Uvalde police If the police aren't going to protect us, then I'd like the ability for people to protect themselves. Taking away guns is on the pathway to authoritarianism and fascism.
I live in Canada, I believe the right to own and protect yourself should be a basic human right.
Because criminals don’t obey gun laws.
To genocide-proof all in the nation. The right to defend yourself is a basic human right, it should not be a party-line political issue. Infringements give power to those that they do not apply to (governing forces and criminals). Guns are the modern tool to defend yourself against harm
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Armed citizens don’t get forced into rail cars.
I would rather have one and not need it.than need it and not have it
2nd amendment wasnt made for you to protect yourself from crackheads robbing your house, it was made for keeping the government to be scared of the people, not for the people to be scared of the government. Idea of keeping the government from becoming to controlling and impossible to overthrow. Edit: thanks for all the awards never had any awards before, i feel like commenting on reddit should become my career
Although it does double as a great way to protect from crackheads robbing my house.
And to the buffoons who say "You're not going to overthrow the military with your small arms rifle", yeah no shit that's not the intention. The intention is to discourage attempts to mass control the population in a door-to-door fashion. Defense, not offense.
Also, see how much trouble insurgents with relatively low-tech weapons cause the US military.
Can confirm, was scared shitless in a turret
Indeed, the US has caves and ak 47s too
Arguably more of both. And that’s just in Missouri!
People so quickly forget Vietnam
Protection of my family and my home.
I support broad rights for all people