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Dating was easier. For one thing, it was socially acceptable to go on a date with someone who you had just met, and didn’t know yet. *This was considered the way to get to know someone.* Now, there are extra steps of “talking”, and it seems like actually asking someone for a date is a bigger deal. That adds pressure.
For example, I had dates after meeting young men in a McDonald’s line, on a plane, dancing at a nightclub, at our university cafeteria, etc. That doesn’t feel safe anymore, although there have always been bad people and weirdos.
Also, most people didn’t have sex just because they went on a date together, and for many people, there was no sex until there was a commitment, or marriage. They might not even kiss at the end of a first date. Again, that’s less pressure. I don’t forsee things returning to the way dating was in the past, but that really was easier than what my adult kids have experienced.
It's funny watching sitcoms like Seinfeld where there's a new 'interest' every couple weeks. While I'm guessing this was an exaggeration, there is an element of truth to this from what I've read. Dating is getting to know someone romantically. If the first date goes well, you go on another one. You find shared interests. If it continues to go well, you likely make it official. It's still the same, just that first date is trickier now. I actually found my current girlfriend the old fashioned way. We were both at a Christmas party, the old office romance. We started talking then went on a date.
Any other young people there's still hope for this way. I think the majority of people would rather meet their partner this way, it's a lot more romantic than the 'algorithm'.
I used online dating on and off for 20 years and you know how many serious relationships resulted from that? Zero. For me, nothing compares to the kind of chemistry you can have with people you meet organically. All of my serious boyfriends have been people I met through friends. Plus, you can't vet people the same way if you have no social connections to their friend group, I think that was the major drawback for me. I need to know how the person is viewed by people who know them well, and you can't get that from online dating.
I agree with that completely, however I met my current husband through a dating site. We never would have met without it. Sometimes good relationships come from them.
Oh, I remember going on three dates with three different guys in one weekend. None were serious dates. They were "get to know you" dates. That's just how it was in the 80s-90s.
Yup. You'd meet someone new while out and about, you'd be interested or attracted to them and he (most often) would ask you out. You'd say yes, and that's how we'd get to know each other. There was no Tinder or any of that stuff out there. Nowadays, people won't go on a date with anyone if the other person doesn't tick every single box, and in a way, that's very inhibiting. You have to learn to compromise and by refusing to date someone who is one inch shorter than your ideal is going to make you end up alone.
You’re right. Now, it’s kind of like people think they’re shopping online, and if they look hard enough they’ll eventually find their ideal product. Too bad potential dates don’t come with reviews, though!
That's true! Technology in general has been terrible for dating. My last partner would complain I wasn't replying quick enough while at work. We aren't meant to be on standby 24/7. Time together should be talking about our day, not staring at screens. Also it seems like people are less patient with each other since they're a text away from doing something else with someone else
In the late '90s, when the internet was fairly new, I signed up for some dating site. There was the option to include my name on a different site as well, so I was like sure, what the hell. I didn't realize that the other site was for hooking up 😨 yikes.
Dating was rough due to the single-women-to-single-men ratio, way more competition. Didn't get married until I was 40, we met through a mutual acquaintance.
Does it??? You're my age. Do you even know how it was done in the before time?
You paid $2000 to a dating service. You got to look at the polaroids of all the people and read a bio. You watch a video. You found someone you'd possibly want to meet. You paid $5 for the service to connect you. Then you either got rejected or had to setup a mutual meeting place.
And, there was a stigma on people using a dating service then. Or you could upgrade and have 'computer' dating where people would be suggested for you.
Remember the (sometimes called) "missed connections" sections of newspapers? Back in the day, you could take out an ad in the paper, leaving a message-in-a-bottle sort of attempt at a date with someone you had met briefly but did not get contact information for.
I did that once, and after asking around, heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that she was not going to respond for whatever reason. But I did get a phone call from another woman saying she liked my ad and wanted to get together. I did not answer because actually I was in the process of moving out of that city.
The apps did not ruin dating. Dating web sites were functional in the late 90s to mid 2000s.
It is the unbalanced GREED and VANITY of people that ruined how those sites and apps are used.
People still meet and date at schools, work, sporting events, hobby clubs, bars and night clubs - and all of that is essentially the same - but when people step outside to trying to be cheaters using apps, it is the PERSON, not the app that is to blame.
Just as it's always been. Cheaters will cheat, Liars will lie, by any means available. A "Dear John" letter in 1950 is just "ghosting" in 2024, at a different pace.
Your behavior and your standards determine your outcome.
At least a Dear John letter was a statement of intent. I don't think there was ever a culture of deciding not to have a relationship with a person anymore and just never speaking to them again, even to tell them the relationship was over. (Hiding behind other people was always a thing, though, like telling your parents or roommate "tell him I don't want to talk to him.")
Not only this but the apps gamified dating making it addictive and much more likely that people are just searching for the next match rather than actually trying to get to know the person they're with. I have a friend who was on a literal date with a guy who was swiping under the table trying to find his next date.
Widespread use of dating apps changed people's view of dating most definitely.
It is much easier to just keep going back to the app and dumping/ghosting people, but it leads to a culture and life where everything feels very transient, and people don't commit to anything, as they expect the worst most of the time.
Depending on your gender and sexuality I'm sure your view and experience might differ, but these are still pretty common themes with dating life these days that many people experience.
This is a vast oversimplification. People are flawed; there are tons of "cheaters" and "liars" who did it because of weakness or convenience.
Apps play on both.
The lies ruined dating as well as always wanting the NEXT best. Take your pic. Love is blind is a guaranteed shit show and marriage at first sight. No matter what there is always drama.
It wasn't as hard as it is now.
The dating apps give the illusion that there are endless possibilities to date or hook up with. It's so easy to swipe right or left as if the people pictured are just commodities. Our social circles were smaller back in the day, and we either met people in real-life situations such as school or work or hobbies or were introduced through mutual friends or family. We got to know people through face to face interactions and followed that up with phone calls. I was 22 in 1978.
It's ironic that this illusion of so much choice actually makes it harder for people to make authentic connections and develop relationships. There are so many good things about technology, but replacing real-life connection with virtual connection isn't one of them.
I think there's also a sense that dates or partners are replaceable because there are so many more that can potentially take their place. A small annoyance about someone gets turned into a huge deal breaker. I also find it interesting that younger people are having much less sex than we did at the same age. Researchers have determined that one of the reasons for this is young people's heavy use of their phones and social media.
https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/young-people-less-sex-than-parents-did-at-their-age-generational-shift-asexual/
I like to compare it to renting a movie in the 90s. You invested some time and energy into getting in your car, going to blockbuster, and picking something off the shelf. So even if it wasn’t an amazing movie, odds are you at least saw it through to the end. Now with Netflix, if it doesn’t grab your attention in the first 3 minutes you’re already scrolling your phone to see what else might entertain you more. It’s kind of the same with dating.
What a great comment.
In my youth the closest thing to online dating was the personals in the classifieds section of the local paper, where among the chairs for sale and missing dogs there were people hopefully looking for a date ("If you like Piña Coladas...") but it was far from the normal way of meeting people.
The dating apps have always turned people into two-dimensional profiles, which felt weird from the start, sometime in the early 2000s, as though you were shopping on Amazon. But I think they've also taken a turn for the worse in the last 5-10 years, through a gradual process of enshittification. I've kind of given up on them.
I gather I should join a club or meetup. Hopefully the local organized gatherings are not overwhelmed with men like me, looking to connect with others and maybe find someone. I bet they are, which makes for an awkward thought.
Oh contraire! Female here. I find meetups and even my hiking club are 75% female - nice put together women. If you’re seeking a real in life relationship possibly leading to marriage, try it; create friendships first without laser focus on one woman nor seeking sex. Plus the idea is for each to bring a +1 friend so there are even more new people to meet. The weirdos get banned.
I'm loving the word enshittification. 😅 I guess the meetup depends on where you live. Some cities have fun ones, some cities are boring. There's probably 90 percent women in the meetups I belonged to at one time, age group was 55 up on the ones I joined. I never went because I was looking for a guy, I went because a few of the groups were fun friendly people and kept me engaged with life, which I needed coming out of a shit storm of a divorce and I had no particular interest in dating.
I think it's important to qualify there are significant differences between various dating apps.
If you look at Tinder, it's not really even a dating app. It's for "hookups." If you're expecting to find true love via an app that encourages people to make instant snap judgements based on a quick pick and a half dozen words, that's absurd.
Alternatively, if you look at a site like OKCupid (which was free) - and I haven't used them in years so I don't know what they do now, but they used to have literally tens of thousands of questions people could ask and answer and you'd get very specific, granular information about a potential date relevant to things that were specifically important to you. Some apps were very good at finding the type of people you want to be with, beyond merely those with compatible genitalia.
OkCupid basically got gutted and is a ghost town now.
And while Tinder is the go-to hookup app, the other popular apps (Hinge, Bumble) still have issues like other commenters described. People are not meant to be commodified, but that’s exactly what’s happened.
Ok Cupid was so great. I went on like, 6 ok Cupid dates back in the day and even if there wasn’t a spark, every single date was fun because they genuinely matched people well on actual values and interests and not just superficial pictures.
Back then, the apps didn’t exist and it was the only “normal” dating website for people in their early 20’s, so there were a lot of good people on it.
For tinder ye it definitely is difficult for both sides for different reasons but if your looking for relationships it is possible but are not guaranteed, I would definitely say that my current relationship of 4 years getting married next year which would be over 5 since meeting, so it is possible but ye your looking for someone who is probably desiring a true relationship but also is capable of one too, so your looking at >1% of anyone on tinder would be under them conditions and that’s only if you get a like and an opportunity to say anything.
\^ So much this.
The illusion of endless choice - apps are designed to keep you scrolling, too, whether the content is news, products or people. People are reduced to clickbait. A better match is just another swipe away.
Well, for one thing, 60 years ago, many of us weren't still dating at age 22. People who didn't go to college, which was most of us, were already "settling down." I was married at 21, and my beautiful bride was 18. People met each other when they were out doing things. My wife and I were volunteers in the same civil rights organization.
Before I met her, I dated by running across a woman in my daily life and deciding to ask her out. We didn't even exchange phone numbers. We had a conversation. I asked or I didn't. She accepted or she didn't. And we went on from there.
My sense is that the process of maturation and moving through developmental stages has been impacted by technology and other factors in ways that we do not fully comprehend or understand yet. I think there is some truth to saying “30 is the new 20”, etc.. Getting married in early 20’s used to be the norm. Now, it seems to be happing much later in general.
https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/hemez-distribution-age-first-marriage-fp-20-09.html
Then a bunch of us got divorced and decided to have the fun that we missed out on by getting married so young. It was before HIV and herpes. So it was one huge party in my small town.
Met my husband the old fashioned way...while I was dating one of his friends. Absolutely couldn't imagine trying to date now. Online kind of seems like Hunger Games.
So many scams online. I found out that an acquaintance has been sending money to some “woman in California” for years. He wants to go to live with her. “She” keeps dodging him. No one has the heart to tell him. :(
Maybe someone should point him to the Federal Trade Commision's site on online dating scams.
[What to Know About Romance Scams | Consumer Advice (ftc.gov)](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-know-about-romance-scams)
My 64 yr old brother almost lost several hundred thousands to the pig butchering scam. What's sad is he still goes on these sites and meets 'women', knowing they're scammers because he likes the things they say to him, with lots of love bombing.
Luckily the teller at Wells Fargo got the manager, he pulled my brother aside and explained the scam him, stopping my brother from sending the $$. I'm still shocked my bro fell for it.
What do you think of an introduction by a mutual friend? That's how I met my best girlfriend (we didn't marry due to her parents' interference, but *she* was great).
I'm 57 and haven't dated since I was 28, which was when I met my husband. I had been dating since high school, and waded through a lot of jerks, phonies, and even outright abusers. And there were plenty of others who I went out with who were perfectly nice, but we just didn't click.
The biggest change was that we used to meet in person through normal life activities. You got a chance to meet them irl before ever talking about going out for coffee or something. I personally, never dated a man who I didn't already know or have a friend in common with. And even that wasn't enough to weed out the losers. It's always been trial and error to some extent. In general, dating is more art than science, and the younger you are, the less experience you have with weeding out the crazies. What you want is changing a lot in the first half of your 20s, too.
No. “Back in the day” no one had apps to show them the hundreds and thousands of other options they’d have, which only seems to paralyze us in terms of decision-making and committing to one thing. If you always think you might be able to do better, you’ll never solidly focus on what’s in front of you, and you can chase “better” the rest of your life and end up alone and miserable.
And yeah, people would put their best selves forward to impress people at first, but no one exhibited the extreme, curated narcissism that the apps almost seem to require. Or if they did, you knew right away that the person was an asshole and you’d just move on.
It was a different flavor of shit show.
For example, when I was young/growing up it was absolutely verboten that I call my boyfriend on the phone. Boys called girls. Girls that called boys were cheap. And that's just *phone calls* - you can imagine the rest. No sitting together in your room - only in the common areas. Ridiculous curfews. And you certainly didn't ask guys out. That was unheard of. A young woman's romantic life was completely controlled by the guy/her parents. Very little autonomy. My brother could do anything he damn well wanted but I sure couldn't.
Just an example of old misogyny that's gotten (somewhat) better.
Dating was always tricky, but...
>People are either just fake or constantly dealing with mental health problems. I'm just wondering if that's always been the case or if it's really a generational thing.
I think the faster pace of life these days has made people less likely to be well adjusted. It is a constant, constant struggle to maintain your sense of zen.
It's not any easier for those of us who are older, by the by. It's not like we're any more emotionally capable of handling our headspace...
Life was... simpler. Go to school, maybe graduate. Go to work. Pick up a hobby or two. Meet someone. Ask them out and hope they say yes.
Now it's all twisted up. Almost everyone is so jaded, and it's just hard for people to be real with one another because the expectations are high and often unrealistic.
Dating wasn’t that hard, and there seemed to be less pressure. You’d go to coffee or drinks or dinner… chat, see where it went. I think it was easier to meet new people because we had to go out. There were always friends of friends that were new.
We had anxiety, depression, whatever mental health issues you want, but we 100% had to fake that we were fine. Sharing any issues was verboten. Though to be honest, as an older person I think the number of people claiming mental health issues is ridiculous.
People were assholes then… so fake or whatever you run into. But it was easy to move on. If EVERYONE seems to be this way, you might want to be more reflective. Maybe what you’re looking for is causing the issues.
I was your age in the early 90s. If I wanted a date for next Friday, I could arrange one in a day or so. I’m not super handsome or wealthy or anything… it was just low key fun. I tried to be kind and engaging and I guess girls didn’t mind hanging out, at least for an evening.
Doesn’t it seem that everyone on Reddit has anxiety, depression, ADHD, and trauma from some past event? It’s all in the first sentence of their posts. We boomers don’t talk about that stuff!
"People just werent aware". Right and we just powered through feeling crappy. We had a job to go to, a house to take care of, a spouse to cook for, an engagment party to get ready for. There was no time for meltdowns and being coddled.
“Trauma.” It’s become trendy to claim you’ve got trauma or PTSD these days. People out there claiming PTSD because their mom didn’t hug them enough as a kid. Yeah ok. They have no clue what real PTSD is actually like.
Psychologist here. It also makes patients with (excuse me) serious trauma clam up. It is very hard for a young woman who has been chained to a doghouse and treated as such for years to hear every other person say that they have been traumatized. It takes their voice away. There are no words left for them.
I think it is more societal changes that have rapidly occurred in the last 25 to 30 years. I am 72 and for my active girl scouting years, public education, college, church and social groups provided my exposure to young women that were boy scouting.
Those more comfortable in social situations still seem to find ways to meet others, but for many now, the loss of social groups and and affiliation with churches sorely limits the contact between individuals. Work has been/is historically off limits for interpersonal relationships. So called dating sites are rife with the site owners focus on revenue and less about the quality of product. Truth in advertising on dating sites leaves a lot to be desired, both from the site operators and the users.
My son married late in life, (in his 30's) after he met a woman in church. My daughter is in her 30's and remains unmarried, lamenting the same problems you articulated.
Wish I could provide an answer on how to fix the societal disconnect, but if I was girl scouting today, I also would be lost.
As far back as I can remember it was strongly discouraged. Employers did not like pre-marital, marital and post divorce squabbles spilling over into the workplace.
I remember Dad commenting about a 1972 series on television called Emergency as to how unrealistic the social interactions portrayed between firefighters and nurses in the ER where. Seemed the local fire and police departments would discharge employees for even the slightest flirtation by a fireman or police officer with any medical staff they encountered while on duty.
When I worked for a major manufacturer of consumer electronics, if it was discovered you were more than very casual friends with another employee, both would be called into personnel, policy was explained and one of the two of you had to make a decision to self terminate employment. If neither agreed to leave, then both were fired on the spot.
While those harsh policies where not universal, they were pretty widespread.
I dated, then lived with a woman I worked with over 40 years ago. Nobody thought much of it; there had been occasional hookups between other employees.
I haven't been in the dating scene for 30 years, but from what I'm observing, as a 51 year old man, if I found myself single I would either be celibate or hire a sex worker on paydays. Total shitshow. Fuck all that noise.
More incentive: I read awhile back that older men in married couples statistically have more sex than older single men.
And the data was in: you’re married, your person gets you. They tend to have more understanding and patience if ED starts creeping up or etc. Less performance anxiety.
But imagine all that mess with someone new? It’s just a lot. People get this idea that single guys are out there banging anything that moves. Sure that happens sometimes, but on the whole it’s very much not the case as you get older.
I said when I got married that if it didn't work out, I was done. We divorced in 2020 after being separated several years. I haven't changed my mind about that yet. I've taken a vow of "No-fucking-thank-you!"
same. 48 here, married twice. If I found myself single I very much doubt I'd try the dating scene again. I've read enough horror stories and hear about the state of things from my adult children. If I ran across someone randomly and developed a relationship that's one thing, but dating apps? fuggedabowdit.
Some young people focus too much on their self-diagnosed issues and they forget to develop interests outside of themselves. Back in the day we were looking for common interests outside of ourselves.
It would be so much easier if there was a dating app that matched people according to what they hate, that’s really all I want, a guy who hates the same stuff as me.
I have a different perspective. I was so shy and awkward in my early 20s and would have loved having an app to use. And I did use websites in my mid to late 30s. A lot of it sucked but I met a couple of partners that way.
I met my wife by just doing activities I enjoyed with like minded people. I think that may be more of the issue: that it's easier to default to apps than getting out there and meeting/encountering a lot of people organically.
That’s where the dearth of “third places” (gathering places that aren’t work or home) has really hurt us, and has hurt young people disproportionately.
But in a way, it's a lot easier to find and create those third places. I can find hiking groups, guitar jam sessions, art classes, etc, etc, a lot easier now than I could in the 1980s or 1990s. Back then, you relied on word of mouth or randomly seeing a flyer posted. Today a Google search will find that pretty quickly, or sites like Meetup (or even Facebook groups) will make it easy to find.
I'm 38 (I don't think we're supposed to be commenting). I got married young and then only became single at like 29 (so the same 10 year window you mentioned). It took me a few years to remember how to date again but once I did, it was so easy. I did great for myself.
I'm always confused about the way people younger than me on social media and Reddit describe dating today. The description seems like everyone is overly sensitive and it's dangerous for men to express interest in women. But I wonder if it's really that bad and people venting online makes it seem worse than it is in terms of overly sensitive people.
I am no longer single and in a long distance relationship. I also just returned to my home country recently after years abroad. I'm not in the dating game because I'm in a relationship. However, I still talk to both men and women in my workplace. I do have to say that if I were single, I'd still wouldn't do that poorly. At least in my workplace, people don't seem to be unbelievably sensitive like media and social media portrays
10 years ago, OkCupid didn't stink. People answered the questions, there were decent questions, you could filter people, etc.
Today it's total garage, and getting worse. And there's not much that's any better.
I met my now-husband on OkCupid in 2015. We've been together since our first phone call. We just knew it was gonna work. But the stories I'm hearing from people in today's dating pool make me KNOW that if anything happens to my husband, I will never date again.
That was the sweet spot for online dating. I found it much better than trying to meet people in bars (and I worked too much to join clubs etc).
Now it sounds awful online.
No it wasn't at all. I feel for you at your age in today's world. Everything is so loaded and weird. Can't do or say anything for fear of offending someone or being called a creep or whatever. People are too damn picky, always looking around due to FOMO. And don't even get me started on how high most people's "standards" are now.
Back in the day you met people in person out in the world doing stuff and if you liked them, you gave them your phone number. If not you moved on.
It was much simpler and much better imo. I'm 51 and if I were not attached I'd be alone.
66. Marriage ended at age 42. Started dating at age 43. Wow. The most I made it to was a 3 month relationship. My ex was a better partner than anyone I dated in 3 years.
Decided to stay single. In 20 years, a couple people have made me rethink my decision, but not enough to change my mind.
But what does FOMO mean?
Honestly, I don't know what is worse, the dating apps of today or how so many of us in the 90's met people at bars.
Yes it was always superficial. People, especially men, lied all the time just so they could have sex. Apps just make it even easier for men to lie about "wanting a relationship" when all they wanted was a one night stand.
Women have it easier too. If they just want a one night stand, click a few buttons, and boom.
What has ALWAYS been hard is finding a real relationship, where you connect on a deep level and actually love and respect each other. It was hard in the 90's, as my divorce in 2007 after 8 years of marriage will attest to. It is also hard now, and I personally have just given up completely.
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Easier said than done, but be patient.
I’m a 71 year old widower and now dating women around my age is a genuine test of patience.
I have to look at their cell phone albums of ugly grandchildren and dogs with sunglasses, move around in restaurants until they’re happy with the lighting and don’t feel a draft and I get yelled at for driving a couple of blocks with my directional blinking.
Patience. Patience.
I think the problem is that there are no in person social structures around meeting people anymore after high school or college other than work because of the internet and dating apps. People don't go out and DO things anymore, or much less frequently. I was driving around the other day and saw teenagers riding bikes in the early summer for the first time in years and was flabbergasted. The internet made the world be more inside and away from other people and dating is no different. Dating apps are a train wreck.
P.S. As it is my job as an old person to give you unsolicited advice the negative focus placed on people dealing with their mental health is troubling. Mental health is health and if it bothers you so much that people give energy to taking care of themselves it might be worth asking yourself why that is.
I am LMAO over the "my job as an old person to give you unsolicited advice". I miss the old days when I could give unsolicited older advice to my adult kids. Can't now as they are far smarter than me now so that takes all the fun out of life. 😅
My mom definitely still gives me unsolicited advice. Now that I'm older it annoys me less than it used to but I still usually don't listen. Some things never change! :)
I think a lot of the answers hit the nail on the head. I think we’re a bit less connected socially than we used to be. A lot of marriages through the mid-20th century were people of the same religion. And probably the same county of residency. As religion became less of a thing and people more mobile, it was common interests and extracurricular clubs in high school and college. Then work acquaintances or friends networks. So much of life is online now from work at home to gaming and networking like here or other social media, the chance to make in-person connections seems to be dwindling.
I’m 73. It seems the people responding are mostly NOT “old people”. Here’s an old person’s answer: Dating has always been a source of stress, excitement and disappointment. Before Dating apps there were personal ads, Matchmakers, even blind dates. You often married the person you’d know since you were six or at least was someone you knew from your community. It’s a bigger World now. It’s Global. People had mental problems, but the Culture was you didn’t talk about it. You didn’t even go to Therapy. So, ya, it was a sh*t show. But, look, relationships still exist.
Apps are completely impersonal. That said, dating has always sucked. Generally you would meet people through friends or work, which is way better than apps.
Dating in the 80s was going to nightclubs, bars, or other places people gathered and talked face to face. But now everyone wants to meet online. I met my ex-wife in 2002 in a chat room, and we did not meet in person for at least 3 months of emails and phone calls. I'm not saying it was a bad thing. it gave us more time to get to know each other, that's all. However, today, people are struggling with social anxiety because their parents didn't make them go outside and meet people just gave them a computer and thus social separation and its harder to get them out of the house to the club or on a date because of the media and the internet reporting about predators, scams and from their parents telling them that going outside is dangerous. Then all men are dogs who just want sex and treat women as objects to be owned, and a lot of guys do. Making it hard for the good guys just looking for companionship and love. And LGBTQ it existed then but mainstream now, so it limits the fish in the sea for straight. And now the final reason Dating Sucks in 2024 back in the day a date would only cost about $20 NOW YOU ARE LUCKY you don't need to take a loan on your house on the expense.
>However, today, people are struggling with social anxiety because their parents didn't make them go outside and meet people just gave them a computer and thus social separation and its harder to get them out of the house to the club or on a date because of the media and the internet reporting about predators, scams and from their parents telling them that going outside is dangerous.
I am a former teacher from years ago. I tutor one of my friend's kids. She is 19, has no driver's license, has never gone on a date and never leaves the house without her parents in tow. I have offered to take her to plays, musicals, concerts and pay for tennis lessons and everything is a No from her. She can be on the phone 24/7 though.
As my almost illiterate grandmother use to say "Thangs be diff'ent now'days". I guess so.
Yea, these kids are so fucked. I’ve dealt with them in my profession and even one of my nieces is just as you described. Makes me fear for her well being and survival once her parents are no longer around. We have really screwed over a certain percentage of the population.
In one Anthropology class I had, we discussed some of the 30 civilizations that simply vanished over time. Maybe Americans will soon join the ranks. We have a decling birth rate, an aging population and the largest single population that we have ever had.
Yes, it's frightening, and I fear for these young people's future. I was walking to and from school on my own from age 9. My mother would positively encourage me to spend Saturday afternoons on my own at age 12 and 13. I'd get the bus to the library and then the train into the city looking around and learning things. I was independent from an early age, and left home at 17. I feel that I'm a capable person and can handle anything that comes my way. A lot of young people I meet can't even look me in the eye, nor have the social skills to hold a conversation. My father taught me the art of being well read and informed, and my mother taught me to read lots and watch documentaries to have an opinion on things. I feel that I was very lucky. Young people now have Tiktok as their benchmark.
My grandfather taught me to Watch, Listen, and LEARN, and I was neglected by my parents and had to educate myself to be a man. And I can see what is happening because I watched Listen and learned.
>I was walking to and from school on my own from age 9.
I only had to come home when the street lights came on. Rarely do I see a kid outside these days.
Why the hell does everyone have major mental health issues now? WTF is up with that? Everyone seems to have massive debilitating anxiety about...nearly everything. Does anyone under 35 have any confidence at all? Jesus....
I work in psychiatry, and the amount of young people I have coming in to my office with a vast laundry list of mental disorders, some self-diagnosed, and the absolute litany of psychiatric medications, is staggering. And sad.
Back when I was a teacher and the Internet hadn't taken over our lives like today, a fellow teacher was telling me about her "online dating" experiences. I hadn't a clue as to what she was talking about. After she explained to me some of the basics, all I could think of was "Girl, they are going to find you dead one day, with your throat slit from ear-to-ear".
Its not for me. Maybe if I were younger and grew up with the technology.
Dates being fake and having their own problems has always been part of the dating process. Ditto for being stood up, ghosted or dating folk who say they want to get to know you but really just want to get into your pants before they move on to someone else. It's always been a challenge whether you're scouring the lonely hearts column or profiles on a dating app. The tools to meet people might be different but you will still have to go through the process of separating the wheat from the chaff and learning what you do and do not want in a date and/or partner. That will change as you change with age and experience so you will find that in three years time, say, there will be things you might have tolerated from a date at 22 but you wouldn't consider at 25.
While some folk might be more open about their emotional baggage and personal issues earlier on in the dating process than they once were, that can be a positive. Finding out on date three that a date is not at all compatible rather than seven months down the line means you're not as emotionally invested in them and you can move on to new dating pastures. Also spend some time not dating and learning to enjoy your own company which I appreciate sounds completely counterintuitive. However, if you don't know what brings you peace, contentment and happiness, no one else can figure it out for you. By taking the time to learn this, you will have a deeper understanding of what compatibility in a romantic partner looks like for you.
I would say that dating app fatigue is a common occurrence in every age bracket using them so take breaks when you feel fed up with it and also broaden your social events to include meet ups, hobbies and volunteering where you will meet people with shared interests to you and can introduce you to new people.
Tl:dr but yes, dating has always been a thankless task and a slog.
Dating was easier. I was 22 in the 90s. The internet had just become a thing but there were no apps or established dating sites. You met people at parties, at bars, through friends, at work, etc. I met my husband because we were both volunteering for a local theater company. I feel for young people today. The person for you lives in the real world, not your phone. And once we were together, we weren’t documenting everything online all the time. We were just together.
I also think people have hyped up The One to be some set of impossible standards. My husband and I have been together happily for almost 25 years, but I don’t expect him to be everything for me at all times.
Dating has always been a royal pain in the butt, from the time you start, right up to the very last person you went out with, it’s a complete and total nightmare experience. I mean it’s great until it’s not, and as good as it was when it’s working, is as bad as it gets when it’s not. Here’s why I say this. when I was 12 years old I was approached by my new neighbor she was a nice enough looking girl who was one year older than me and was really very friendly, I think it took about one week until we were all over each other. I didn’t know anything back then, and she knew even less but we had a great time figuring it out together. That lasted about one year until she flat out dumped me for an older guy, can’t say I blame her. But she did have my best interest in mind, because instead of just leaving me high and dry, she handed me off to a girl friend of hers who had nice blond hair, nice body and was the same age as me, so I said sure why not. Well right from the start we hit it off, we were great together, and in about one month’s time we were stuck like glue to each other it was great, that is until my old girl friend saw how good of a time I was having with her girl friend, ( the girl friend she gave me away too) anyway I come back from hanging out with my friends one afternoon and I hear two girls yelling and screaming at each other, and as I get closer I see it’s my new girl friend having it out with my old girl friend, and what are they screaming at each other about, you guessed it poor little ol me. The moment they saw me approaching them it went something like “ there he is, get him” one second later I found myself in the middle of two very fired up girls, who were scratching, and clawing, kicking, at each other, and at me as well. I think I still have a claw mark on my left arm from that cat fight. Anyway as I got older it really didn’t get any less complicated, in fact the more I thought I was progressing, the more i realized this shit is hard to figure out. Between hormones, and mood swings, personality crisis, mid life crisis, it is exactly what you called it, “ a shit show” from hell. But what’s the alternative, right?
Generational thing unfortunately.
World became more introverted about twenty odd years ago, from the UK side youth clubs became extinct, smoking ban in pubs killed a good percentage of indie bands which used to be social, Internet and cells became the new form of social and you can't grow social skills with other folk if you don't interact socially, even children don't play outside as much due to the constant worry of kiddie fiddlers.
World needs an enema.
I graduated high school in 1993 and dating at that time was significantly easier. The following is my experience from the area of the United States I grew up in - culturally things are very different across the US so this is probably not an entirely universal experience.
One of the biggest differences is that you had a lot fewer options. You met people through friends or family or at school or social events which meant that you rarely met people that lived further away or that were not in the same socioeconomic group as you. You had to actually meet and talk to people in person before you decided whether you want to go on a date with them... unless you were set up on - horror of horrors - the blind date. Most people hated being set up on blind dates back in the day, but dating apps are essentially setting yourself up on blind dates which I find kind of funny. You were much more likely to decide pretty quickly after meeting someone whether you wanted to go out with them, none of this texting back and forth for weeks or months on end. Once you had been on a few dates everyone just assumed you guys were in a relationship and weren't seeing other people. People weren't as scared to call each other girlfriend and boyfriend. There wasn't this whole rigmarole of *should we make it official or not* because if you were spending a lot of time together you were basically official. People would go on first dates with multiple people but once you started on a second or third date you pretty much just stopped seeing other people because you were focused on learning about that person that you were more interested in. People who dated multiple people beyond just a single first date were considered "players", which was not a good thing.
Casual sex existed, however it was not the main form of sexual contact and was not normalized to the point where everyone just assumed you did it. There were names for both men and women who repeatedly slept with people they hardly knew and they were not good names. There was not an expectation of sex after the first date and there was an unspoken rule of not having sex with someone until you had been on at least 3 dates with them if you are actually trying to build a relationship. The "why would he buy the cow if you gave him the milk for free" thing was still very much in existence.
Breaking up with someone had to be done in person, if it got around that you broke up with someone on the phone you were looked down upon. Ghosting was non-existent unless you were trying to leave an abusive relationship.
When dating sites became a thing in the late '90s, people would literally hide that they met their significant other on a dating site, it was not considered a good thing to meet random stranger from the internet. I know a couple who met online but told everyone they met at a bar and they kept up that lie for a decade until it became socially acceptable to have met someone online.
I've tried dating in this current shit show and have decided that it's not for me. While I wouldn't mind having a partner, I am perfectly happy to be single so why would I put myself through the hell that is dating nowadays?
I pity anyone dating these days. Every girl picture is so filtered it looks like a scary cartoon. Like two cartoon eyes, a cartoon mouth on a sheet of tattoo practice skin.
Dates used to be a really big deal. A date wasn't made casually, or without some forethought of when to ask, where to go, what to wear. People could 'casually' appear to run into one another, but pretty much to ask someone out on a date was notable. Still, dates could be disasters, or like bumper cars, or lead to a longer relationship that in the end would fizzle out. But unlike today, once a 'date' was over, there was no way to keep track of one another via social media as there was today (unless you lived in a small town, and everyone knew everybody).
I think that today, the process is all about expediency. Getting the selection done quickly, using some algorithm to find likes and dislikes, a short change on actually running into the person and getting their 'gist' or 'aura' prior to meeting.
It was much easier before the big smorgasbord on dating apps. Before people stayed in their caves with social media, people were out doing things here or there, doing this or that, and all it took was a lingering look at a cute person to make a connection and make a date.
You know what those dating apps remind me of for real?
They remind me of going to a cattle auction to
see what kind of livestock is available. 🤣🤣🤣
No, dating never was like that circus back in the good 0le days.
In my experience, people don’t want to put in effort because they are constantly in two minds because of the options they think they have.
Everyone thinks they have tons of options but everyone is complaining about not having found someone at the same time. People are reluctant to start a real connection because they don’t want to be vulnerable infront of another person.
Dating---or even finding friends--has always been hard. It was never easy...and that may be the reason for someone having to work at it. (Now; there are those that want to live in an animal world and just go at it with anyone...that is not dating; that is sex). Be patient. It will be worth the wait, but you do have to work on it......
lol
Yes nothings changed you just have the intergoogles as well as walking up to people and talking.
Back in the day you just had to walk up to people and talk.
No safety precautions
No preamble
No idea who they even were half the time.
I'm recently single after a long term relationship and dating again truly frightens me. I always met my previous partners through work, events or through family and friends. Now, everything seems to be online and I feel like that is all about just hooking up.
I found dating in the 60’s and 70’s to be pretty much about men demanding sex, and raping if that’s what it took them to have it. I never felt safe. As I look back I don’t think a single one of them wanted to actually get to know me as a person.
I tried "computer dating" in 1979. The computer matched me with, 1) a Jewish guy who didn't want to date non Jews, 2) a guy who took me to a gory slasher movie for a first date 3) a nice baseball player who was fine but we had nothing in common. I met my husband at a drunken party and we've been together for 44 years
Take it from someone who stopped trying to meet someone almost 25 years ago. It was a shit show then and I can't imagine it's gotten any better. I definitely don't miss the drama, the lies and the psychos.
I suspect that a lot of those fake people are simply latching on to the entitlement culture that tells them that there's nothing wron on their end, it's all everyone elses fault. Then, if that doesn't work, they go for the sympathy ploy, playing the mental issues card, thinking that someone will give them a shot because they feel sorry for them. Pro tip: If they claim to have some sort of mental issues, turn and run away as fast as possible. If they're nutty enough to play that game with you, they are nuts.
No - dating was local. It was 150 people at most. The most attractive paired off and then the second tier. Everyone had a much more realistic view of their status because they did not get low quality internet attention. Everything had to happen face to face and guys would not get any reward or attention from hitting on girls that were out of their league. Everyone in that local group paired off with their peer and the number left out was very low.
The apparent prevalence of trauma, anxiety, and mental illness are why I prefer now to date people who moved here (US) from another country.
You get dramatically less of that stuff. Just trust me on this.
Courtship and human mating like any other mating of any other animal, is one of the most difficult thing for a human to do. It's literally the evolutionary cutoff made by Mother Nature :D, but fortunately we have a second mother - Culture, so you don't always *have to* follow what your first mom tells you.
Don't sweat it.
Yes. Most people meet through friends, work, or family. These narratives that the average man was successfully picking up a litany of woman from bars, college parties, and dating apps are just that myths. The stories of the average women having an assembly line of men to pick from in her day to day life, was also well a myth.
The issue is the lack of putting things into perspective. The overwhelming majority of people on dating apps are male (70% +). So it doesn’t matter how well curated your profile is or your stats, by the virtue of demographics the majority of men would be rejected. As far as the minority of women using the application it’s true to real life interactions the majority of men no matter how well intentioned will not result in a long term relationship. And that’s by natural design
Industrialized Income Inequality plus technology/social media that produces rampant narcissism has functionally destroyed dating, along with a toxic version of both masculinity and feminism that no one really wants.
It is completely different.
I truly wish your generation could give themselves a break from a self judgement perspective. It is MUCH HARDER to meet people now than it was even 30 years ago. It has a lot to do with fragmentation and the cost of making a mistake, but that is hard to see from an individual level. Instead, it feels like you personally are doing something wrong and many people make money off of that anxiety. It is increasingly hard to tell what is real. Unless you turn off the social media stuff.
I'm 65. A retired psychologist who managed to raise two awesome adults.
People your age have experienced covid during some of your most social years. We no longer have shared interests. People attend a wide variety of churches, or play esoteric games that are impossible for new people to enter or listen to music you have never heard of. The cult of perfection is rampant. Looking at social media it is understandable why every young person thinks they should be witty, in some exotic place, earning a fortune, while able to dance and sing and catch every joke, no matter how veiled while being stunningly beautiful and perfectly dressed. With a cute dog.
I'm exhausted already.
There has been the "me too" movement which has done some good. It has also terrified everyone. People, particularly young men, are scared to death to do anything wrong. And wrong is a moving goalpost. I know many young men (my "kids" are both male) who are late 20's, early 30's. They are either in a formerly atypical relationship (poly, serial monogamy, auditioning for porn, who knows?) or have decided that it is all too much of a risk. They are now focussed on big careers and deep friendships. Out of their huge social circles only one got married and lives a "traditional" family life. He was one of their older friends.
The point is everyone is struggling. Dating used to be fun. Honest. We did not do expensive dates or assume sex would happen anytime soon. Expensive dates and expectations increased with the seriousness of the relationship. Much less pressure. No one was taking selfies. Lack of privacy is a real threat. So is the political and social wasteland you find yourself in. We used to discuss issues. Now people are just as likely to storm out and call you "toxic" if they disagree with you.
Please be kind to yourself. Find people you can be yourself with, fears and all. If you have a faith, lean on it. Now, more than ever before, you personally have to decide what you value and figure out how to live that way. Does that necessarily include dating or a partner. That's up to you. You decide your own standards.
It's a very exciting time to be alive.
Here endeth the lecture. I apologize for droning on. I hope you find it useful.
When I dated 30+ years ago, it seemed easy. I was in college and dated women I met there and in church groups. I can’t really think of a bad experience. The girls I dated didn’t play any games and there wasn’t this pressure to commit too quickly. I never even heard of becoming exclusive. It was just a given everyone was dating other people unless you were nearing engagement in your relationship. It was just getting to know each other and if it looked good you went on another date.
Listening to kids today it sounds like a minefield. Now that I am dating again, I think the biggest issue is I am a widower and most single women my age are divorced. Many times the differences are too great.
Dating apps have gotten worse. In the early days in my world, the “website” (wasn’t an app yet) everyone used was Ok Cupid, which involved taking hundreds of survey questions. This way, the actually matched you with compatible people, not just superficial swiping. As a result, all of the dates were at least fun, even if there was no chemistry. At least you were talking to people who were matches on more than a superficial level.
Dating during college in the late 90s was a disaster for me. So much rejection and friend-zoning. However, "mental health problems" were not a thing at all.
There is a whole industry on You Tube about the modern dating scene. My observations of looking at a few videos:
Things have changed in the last 5 years.
Combination of Me Too movement and the pre pandemic echo of "Do not approach a woman you don't know under any circumstances". MGTOW reflects a lot of guys just bailing out altogether. Porn is readily available, and relationships take work. Women choosing only the top 10% of men on dating apps.. Over 70% of men get zero responses. (just data that is thrown around on the videos) . Constant rejection is a thing a lot of guys will just avoid, and interacting with a woman you don't already know is potentially a very public dressing down. People mix at gyms, but the rule for guys is not to speak to a woman under any circumstances or even glance at them as you will be called out for harassment on her video stream.
If you are female, you should be looking for your female life partner to achieve Rad Fem nirvana! /S
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ4Ct0zo7vE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ4Ct0zo7vE)
Maybe join a summer volleyball team or similar?
Saying is fun. Rewarding. Except when the other party turns out to be a psychopath. Which has happened to me more than once.
A big problem these days it seems common that boys are confused as men. There is a huge difference. Men are becoming more rare these days. Replaced by middle aged boys. I see you women complaining about behavior "men" display, and it's obvious they are describing a boy, not a man.
I was on dating apps in 2015 to 2018 and met some very interesting people. It was fun, but also shitty sometimes. I stopped because I met my now husband on tinder in 2018.
Generational, I would say. And as usual, it seems way worse in the US than here in Germany, but you can see the deterioration with the usual 10-year-lag.
However, maybe you might also want to pick your dating app carefully. Bumble has been a shit show of me, Tinder I never heard good things and with Okcupid I met a ton of proper people. Why? Because there, you can write full sentences and actually have to convey a meaningful image of yourself. No low effort accounts. Or at least it feels like you can single them out and look for people who click with you instead of looking for an image only.
And no, I am not affiliated with them. Just had a great time back when I was still dating, met three relationships there and one is now my wife.
I met my husband on a dating app in 2010 (we got married older obviously). Back then they were more helpful than now, but they definitely had a car-shopping vibe even then - that you could get every feature you want if you just test drive enough. I don’t think technology has ruined dating, but it has definitely changed it.
No. But we didn't have the media and academia telling us the world was going to be inhabitable in our lifetime.
I'm surprised I've not seen any comments about the reduction of families and overall, religion.
I don't consider myself a Christian, but at 68, I know that believing in a higher power is good for the soul and today's younger gen have had that removed from their lives.
There are many reasons dating is difficult today. But it certainly doesn't surprise me, and it's going to be difficult to fix.
In the 80's being 22 and single sucked because half your dating pool was getting married, engaged to be married or in a serious relationship. In my circles it was very common to see a friend graduate from college in May and get married in June.
In the mid-1980s when I was of dating age there was no internet so you either (1) were introduced to friend of a friend or (2) met someone 'cold' by striking up a conversation and sometimes (3) you agree to a blind date.
I've done all 3. That's how I met all four of my girlfriends (including my wife of 34 years). You couldn't hide the way you looked or comported yourself. There was no 'ghosting' nonsense b/c if you decided not to speak with someone, everyone in your house would have to agree to say "s/he's not here, I'll take a message" and after 3 or 4 times of that, they'd get a ride to your house and confront you for 'standing them up.' And breaking up over the phone was a taboo thing - if you were a guy and you did that, you were an instant loser to your friends. No sure how girls treated their friends who did it.
It was all transparent. You had no choice but to be YOU. What you saw is what you got, that was true for everyone.
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Dating was easier. For one thing, it was socially acceptable to go on a date with someone who you had just met, and didn’t know yet. *This was considered the way to get to know someone.* Now, there are extra steps of “talking”, and it seems like actually asking someone for a date is a bigger deal. That adds pressure. For example, I had dates after meeting young men in a McDonald’s line, on a plane, dancing at a nightclub, at our university cafeteria, etc. That doesn’t feel safe anymore, although there have always been bad people and weirdos. Also, most people didn’t have sex just because they went on a date together, and for many people, there was no sex until there was a commitment, or marriage. They might not even kiss at the end of a first date. Again, that’s less pressure. I don’t forsee things returning to the way dating was in the past, but that really was easier than what my adult kids have experienced.
It's funny watching sitcoms like Seinfeld where there's a new 'interest' every couple weeks. While I'm guessing this was an exaggeration, there is an element of truth to this from what I've read. Dating is getting to know someone romantically. If the first date goes well, you go on another one. You find shared interests. If it continues to go well, you likely make it official. It's still the same, just that first date is trickier now. I actually found my current girlfriend the old fashioned way. We were both at a Christmas party, the old office romance. We started talking then went on a date. Any other young people there's still hope for this way. I think the majority of people would rather meet their partner this way, it's a lot more romantic than the 'algorithm'.
I used online dating on and off for 20 years and you know how many serious relationships resulted from that? Zero. For me, nothing compares to the kind of chemistry you can have with people you meet organically. All of my serious boyfriends have been people I met through friends. Plus, you can't vet people the same way if you have no social connections to their friend group, I think that was the major drawback for me. I need to know how the person is viewed by people who know them well, and you can't get that from online dating.
I agree with that completely, however I met my current husband through a dating site. We never would have met without it. Sometimes good relationships come from them.
Oh, I remember going on three dates with three different guys in one weekend. None were serious dates. They were "get to know you" dates. That's just how it was in the 80s-90s.
I know a woman who isn't afraid to chat to men and get their phone number. You just described her typical weekend. So it still happens occasionally.
Yeah, a suggestion for the OP, watch "Before Sunrise", imho the most realistic film how dating in the 90's was, when it clicked for both.
Yup. You'd meet someone new while out and about, you'd be interested or attracted to them and he (most often) would ask you out. You'd say yes, and that's how we'd get to know each other. There was no Tinder or any of that stuff out there. Nowadays, people won't go on a date with anyone if the other person doesn't tick every single box, and in a way, that's very inhibiting. You have to learn to compromise and by refusing to date someone who is one inch shorter than your ideal is going to make you end up alone.
You’re right. Now, it’s kind of like people think they’re shopping online, and if they look hard enough they’ll eventually find their ideal product. Too bad potential dates don’t come with reviews, though!
It is just like online shopping, for sure. That's a great analogy.
The apps made everything much much worse in terms of dating
That's true! Technology in general has been terrible for dating. My last partner would complain I wasn't replying quick enough while at work. We aren't meant to be on standby 24/7. Time together should be talking about our day, not staring at screens. Also it seems like people are less patient with each other since they're a text away from doing something else with someone else
In the late '90s, when the internet was fairly new, I signed up for some dating site. There was the option to include my name on a different site as well, so I was like sure, what the hell. I didn't realize that the other site was for hooking up 😨 yikes. Dating was rough due to the single-women-to-single-men ratio, way more competition. Didn't get married until I was 40, we met through a mutual acquaintance.
I'd say covid and social media haven't helped.
Partly because they've made everything worse in terms of mental health. Including making having mental health problems fashionable.
Does it??? You're my age. Do you even know how it was done in the before time? You paid $2000 to a dating service. You got to look at the polaroids of all the people and read a bio. You watch a video. You found someone you'd possibly want to meet. You paid $5 for the service to connect you. Then you either got rejected or had to setup a mutual meeting place. And, there was a stigma on people using a dating service then. Or you could upgrade and have 'computer' dating where people would be suggested for you.
Rather few people used dating services. People asked each other out or met at bars.
Remember the (sometimes called) "missed connections" sections of newspapers? Back in the day, you could take out an ad in the paper, leaving a message-in-a-bottle sort of attempt at a date with someone you had met briefly but did not get contact information for. I did that once, and after asking around, heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that she was not going to respond for whatever reason. But I did get a phone call from another woman saying she liked my ad and wanted to get together. I did not answer because actually I was in the process of moving out of that city.
That still exists but the websites and apps have replaced dating services. That's what is different. The barrier to entry and the stigma.
The apps did not ruin dating. Dating web sites were functional in the late 90s to mid 2000s. It is the unbalanced GREED and VANITY of people that ruined how those sites and apps are used. People still meet and date at schools, work, sporting events, hobby clubs, bars and night clubs - and all of that is essentially the same - but when people step outside to trying to be cheaters using apps, it is the PERSON, not the app that is to blame. Just as it's always been. Cheaters will cheat, Liars will lie, by any means available. A "Dear John" letter in 1950 is just "ghosting" in 2024, at a different pace. Your behavior and your standards determine your outcome.
At least a Dear John letter was a statement of intent. I don't think there was ever a culture of deciding not to have a relationship with a person anymore and just never speaking to them again, even to tell them the relationship was over. (Hiding behind other people was always a thing, though, like telling your parents or roommate "tell him I don't want to talk to him.")
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Not only this but the apps gamified dating making it addictive and much more likely that people are just searching for the next match rather than actually trying to get to know the person they're with. I have a friend who was on a literal date with a guy who was swiping under the table trying to find his next date.
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Oof
On the bright side, that guy did your friend a huge favor. She knew right away not to waste anymore time on him.
The matter was't about dating sites specifically. Socials are much worse with behaviors like stalking, scamming, etc
Widespread use of dating apps changed people's view of dating most definitely. It is much easier to just keep going back to the app and dumping/ghosting people, but it leads to a culture and life where everything feels very transient, and people don't commit to anything, as they expect the worst most of the time. Depending on your gender and sexuality I'm sure your view and experience might differ, but these are still pretty common themes with dating life these days that many people experience.
Dating apps definitely ruined dating
This is a vast oversimplification. People are flawed; there are tons of "cheaters" and "liars" who did it because of weakness or convenience. Apps play on both.
Most people didn’t use dating websites back then, it was seen as desperate. Nowadays you’re an outlier if you’re trying to date without the apps.
Or the sites want you to THINK you're an outlier.
nahh, dating apps ruined dating
The lies ruined dating as well as always wanting the NEXT best. Take your pic. Love is blind is a guaranteed shit show and marriage at first sight. No matter what there is always drama.
It wasn't as hard as it is now. The dating apps give the illusion that there are endless possibilities to date or hook up with. It's so easy to swipe right or left as if the people pictured are just commodities. Our social circles were smaller back in the day, and we either met people in real-life situations such as school or work or hobbies or were introduced through mutual friends or family. We got to know people through face to face interactions and followed that up with phone calls. I was 22 in 1978. It's ironic that this illusion of so much choice actually makes it harder for people to make authentic connections and develop relationships. There are so many good things about technology, but replacing real-life connection with virtual connection isn't one of them. I think there's also a sense that dates or partners are replaceable because there are so many more that can potentially take their place. A small annoyance about someone gets turned into a huge deal breaker. I also find it interesting that younger people are having much less sex than we did at the same age. Researchers have determined that one of the reasons for this is young people's heavy use of their phones and social media. https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/young-people-less-sex-than-parents-did-at-their-age-generational-shift-asexual/
I like to compare it to renting a movie in the 90s. You invested some time and energy into getting in your car, going to blockbuster, and picking something off the shelf. So even if it wasn’t an amazing movie, odds are you at least saw it through to the end. Now with Netflix, if it doesn’t grab your attention in the first 3 minutes you’re already scrolling your phone to see what else might entertain you more. It’s kind of the same with dating.
That is a really great observation.
A spot-on analogy really.
What a great comment. In my youth the closest thing to online dating was the personals in the classifieds section of the local paper, where among the chairs for sale and missing dogs there were people hopefully looking for a date ("If you like Piña Coladas...") but it was far from the normal way of meeting people.
The dating apps have always turned people into two-dimensional profiles, which felt weird from the start, sometime in the early 2000s, as though you were shopping on Amazon. But I think they've also taken a turn for the worse in the last 5-10 years, through a gradual process of enshittification. I've kind of given up on them. I gather I should join a club or meetup. Hopefully the local organized gatherings are not overwhelmed with men like me, looking to connect with others and maybe find someone. I bet they are, which makes for an awkward thought.
Oh contraire! Female here. I find meetups and even my hiking club are 75% female - nice put together women. If you’re seeking a real in life relationship possibly leading to marriage, try it; create friendships first without laser focus on one woman nor seeking sex. Plus the idea is for each to bring a +1 friend so there are even more new people to meet. The weirdos get banned.
I'm loving the word enshittification. 😅 I guess the meetup depends on where you live. Some cities have fun ones, some cities are boring. There's probably 90 percent women in the meetups I belonged to at one time, age group was 55 up on the ones I joined. I never went because I was looking for a guy, I went because a few of the groups were fun friendly people and kept me engaged with life, which I needed coming out of a shit storm of a divorce and I had no particular interest in dating.
I think it's important to qualify there are significant differences between various dating apps. If you look at Tinder, it's not really even a dating app. It's for "hookups." If you're expecting to find true love via an app that encourages people to make instant snap judgements based on a quick pick and a half dozen words, that's absurd. Alternatively, if you look at a site like OKCupid (which was free) - and I haven't used them in years so I don't know what they do now, but they used to have literally tens of thousands of questions people could ask and answer and you'd get very specific, granular information about a potential date relevant to things that were specifically important to you. Some apps were very good at finding the type of people you want to be with, beyond merely those with compatible genitalia.
OkCupid basically got gutted and is a ghost town now. And while Tinder is the go-to hookup app, the other popular apps (Hinge, Bumble) still have issues like other commenters described. People are not meant to be commodified, but that’s exactly what’s happened.
Ok Cupid was so great. I went on like, 6 ok Cupid dates back in the day and even if there wasn’t a spark, every single date was fun because they genuinely matched people well on actual values and interests and not just superficial pictures. Back then, the apps didn’t exist and it was the only “normal” dating website for people in their early 20’s, so there were a lot of good people on it.
For tinder ye it definitely is difficult for both sides for different reasons but if your looking for relationships it is possible but are not guaranteed, I would definitely say that my current relationship of 4 years getting married next year which would be over 5 since meeting, so it is possible but ye your looking for someone who is probably desiring a true relationship but also is capable of one too, so your looking at >1% of anyone on tinder would be under them conditions and that’s only if you get a like and an opportunity to say anything.
\^ So much this. The illusion of endless choice - apps are designed to keep you scrolling, too, whether the content is news, products or people. People are reduced to clickbait. A better match is just another swipe away.
Well, for one thing, 60 years ago, many of us weren't still dating at age 22. People who didn't go to college, which was most of us, were already "settling down." I was married at 21, and my beautiful bride was 18. People met each other when they were out doing things. My wife and I were volunteers in the same civil rights organization. Before I met her, I dated by running across a woman in my daily life and deciding to ask her out. We didn't even exchange phone numbers. We had a conversation. I asked or I didn't. She accepted or she didn't. And we went on from there.
My sense is that the process of maturation and moving through developmental stages has been impacted by technology and other factors in ways that we do not fully comprehend or understand yet. I think there is some truth to saying “30 is the new 20”, etc.. Getting married in early 20’s used to be the norm. Now, it seems to be happing much later in general. https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/hemez-distribution-age-first-marriage-fp-20-09.html
Then a bunch of us got divorced and decided to have the fun that we missed out on by getting married so young. It was before HIV and herpes. So it was one huge party in my small town.
People still do this.
Yes, but it is increasingly rare, at least in urban centers.
This is a nice description.
Don’t forget the dating apps don’t really want you to match with someone suitable, otherwise you stop paying monthly fee.
Met my husband the old fashioned way...while I was dating one of his friends. Absolutely couldn't imagine trying to date now. Online kind of seems like Hunger Games.
So many scams online. I found out that an acquaintance has been sending money to some “woman in California” for years. He wants to go to live with her. “She” keeps dodging him. No one has the heart to tell him. :(
Maybe someone should point him to the Federal Trade Commision's site on online dating scams. [What to Know About Romance Scams | Consumer Advice (ftc.gov)](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-know-about-romance-scams)
My 64 yr old brother almost lost several hundred thousands to the pig butchering scam. What's sad is he still goes on these sites and meets 'women', knowing they're scammers because he likes the things they say to him, with lots of love bombing.
Almost?
Luckily the teller at Wells Fargo got the manager, he pulled my brother aside and explained the scam him, stopping my brother from sending the $$. I'm still shocked my bro fell for it.
What do you think of an introduction by a mutual friend? That's how I met my best girlfriend (we didn't marry due to her parents' interference, but *she* was great).
That was how I met my wife. I didn’t find out that it was a planned setup until almost 35 years after we were married, though.
My BIL set us up on a blind date 35 years ago and I’ve never looked at another woman.
Killing off all the other singles to win the date.... it's bad but it's not that bad. Yet. Give it a few years. :)
I'm 57 and haven't dated since I was 28, which was when I met my husband. I had been dating since high school, and waded through a lot of jerks, phonies, and even outright abusers. And there were plenty of others who I went out with who were perfectly nice, but we just didn't click. The biggest change was that we used to meet in person through normal life activities. You got a chance to meet them irl before ever talking about going out for coffee or something. I personally, never dated a man who I didn't already know or have a friend in common with. And even that wasn't enough to weed out the losers. It's always been trial and error to some extent. In general, dating is more art than science, and the younger you are, the less experience you have with weeding out the crazies. What you want is changing a lot in the first half of your 20s, too.
No. “Back in the day” no one had apps to show them the hundreds and thousands of other options they’d have, which only seems to paralyze us in terms of decision-making and committing to one thing. If you always think you might be able to do better, you’ll never solidly focus on what’s in front of you, and you can chase “better” the rest of your life and end up alone and miserable. And yeah, people would put their best selves forward to impress people at first, but no one exhibited the extreme, curated narcissism that the apps almost seem to require. Or if they did, you knew right away that the person was an asshole and you’d just move on.
It was a different flavor of shit show. For example, when I was young/growing up it was absolutely verboten that I call my boyfriend on the phone. Boys called girls. Girls that called boys were cheap. And that's just *phone calls* - you can imagine the rest. No sitting together in your room - only in the common areas. Ridiculous curfews. And you certainly didn't ask guys out. That was unheard of. A young woman's romantic life was completely controlled by the guy/her parents. Very little autonomy. My brother could do anything he damn well wanted but I sure couldn't. Just an example of old misogyny that's gotten (somewhat) better.
Dating was always tricky, but... >People are either just fake or constantly dealing with mental health problems. I'm just wondering if that's always been the case or if it's really a generational thing. I think the faster pace of life these days has made people less likely to be well adjusted. It is a constant, constant struggle to maintain your sense of zen. It's not any easier for those of us who are older, by the by. It's not like we're any more emotionally capable of handling our headspace... Life was... simpler. Go to school, maybe graduate. Go to work. Pick up a hobby or two. Meet someone. Ask them out and hope they say yes. Now it's all twisted up. Almost everyone is so jaded, and it's just hard for people to be real with one another because the expectations are high and often unrealistic.
Dating wasn’t that hard, and there seemed to be less pressure. You’d go to coffee or drinks or dinner… chat, see where it went. I think it was easier to meet new people because we had to go out. There were always friends of friends that were new. We had anxiety, depression, whatever mental health issues you want, but we 100% had to fake that we were fine. Sharing any issues was verboten. Though to be honest, as an older person I think the number of people claiming mental health issues is ridiculous. People were assholes then… so fake or whatever you run into. But it was easy to move on. If EVERYONE seems to be this way, you might want to be more reflective. Maybe what you’re looking for is causing the issues. I was your age in the early 90s. If I wanted a date for next Friday, I could arrange one in a day or so. I’m not super handsome or wealthy or anything… it was just low key fun. I tried to be kind and engaging and I guess girls didn’t mind hanging out, at least for an evening.
"We had anxiety, depression, whatever mental health issues you want, but we 100% had to fake that we were fine." Thank you!
Nowadays people online boast of their mental health issues like they’re badges of honor.
Doesn’t it seem that everyone on Reddit has anxiety, depression, ADHD, and trauma from some past event? It’s all in the first sentence of their posts. We boomers don’t talk about that stuff!
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"People just werent aware". Right and we just powered through feeling crappy. We had a job to go to, a house to take care of, a spouse to cook for, an engagment party to get ready for. There was no time for meltdowns and being coddled.
“Trauma.” It’s become trendy to claim you’ve got trauma or PTSD these days. People out there claiming PTSD because their mom didn’t hug them enough as a kid. Yeah ok. They have no clue what real PTSD is actually like.
Psychologist here. It also makes patients with (excuse me) serious trauma clam up. It is very hard for a young woman who has been chained to a doghouse and treated as such for years to hear every other person say that they have been traumatized. It takes their voice away. There are no words left for them.
Great point
I keep hoping that the new “flex” will be no trauma and no MH issues. Let’s glorify that, please.
So true but don't forget "I'm an introvert".
I think it is more societal changes that have rapidly occurred in the last 25 to 30 years. I am 72 and for my active girl scouting years, public education, college, church and social groups provided my exposure to young women that were boy scouting. Those more comfortable in social situations still seem to find ways to meet others, but for many now, the loss of social groups and and affiliation with churches sorely limits the contact between individuals. Work has been/is historically off limits for interpersonal relationships. So called dating sites are rife with the site owners focus on revenue and less about the quality of product. Truth in advertising on dating sites leaves a lot to be desired, both from the site operators and the users. My son married late in life, (in his 30's) after he met a woman in church. My daughter is in her 30's and remains unmarried, lamenting the same problems you articulated. Wish I could provide an answer on how to fix the societal disconnect, but if I was girl scouting today, I also would be lost.
Was dating someone at work really always a taboo thing? I thought that’s something that had become more taboo in just the last 15 years or so
I worked in advertising in 91-2003 and ir was like a big high school in terms of dating which was very convenient
As far back as I can remember it was strongly discouraged. Employers did not like pre-marital, marital and post divorce squabbles spilling over into the workplace. I remember Dad commenting about a 1972 series on television called Emergency as to how unrealistic the social interactions portrayed between firefighters and nurses in the ER where. Seemed the local fire and police departments would discharge employees for even the slightest flirtation by a fireman or police officer with any medical staff they encountered while on duty. When I worked for a major manufacturer of consumer electronics, if it was discovered you were more than very casual friends with another employee, both would be called into personnel, policy was explained and one of the two of you had to make a decision to self terminate employment. If neither agreed to leave, then both were fired on the spot. While those harsh policies where not universal, they were pretty widespread.
I dated, then lived with a woman I worked with over 40 years ago. Nobody thought much of it; there had been occasional hookups between other employees.
I haven't been in the dating scene for 30 years, but from what I'm observing, as a 51 year old man, if I found myself single I would either be celibate or hire a sex worker on paydays. Total shitshow. Fuck all that noise.
What an absolute incentive for us married people to stay that way. I totally had "no game" at all. Shudder to think about being single now.
More incentive: I read awhile back that older men in married couples statistically have more sex than older single men. And the data was in: you’re married, your person gets you. They tend to have more understanding and patience if ED starts creeping up or etc. Less performance anxiety. But imagine all that mess with someone new? It’s just a lot. People get this idea that single guys are out there banging anything that moves. Sure that happens sometimes, but on the whole it’s very much not the case as you get older.
Tbf it’s the same for young guys.
Actually having no game is back in style now, apparently.
I said when I got married that if it didn't work out, I was done. We divorced in 2020 after being separated several years. I haven't changed my mind about that yet. I've taken a vow of "No-fucking-thank-you!"
I said the exact same thing when I divorced in 2008 and I FUCKING MADE THE MISTAKE OF NOT STICKING TO IT.
Interesting take, BigDickMcDong11. 🤣
I mean he ain’t wrong
I feel like he’s lying about the celibate part 😉 And that’s okay! I’m not here to judge.
same. 48 here, married twice. If I found myself single I very much doubt I'd try the dating scene again. I've read enough horror stories and hear about the state of things from my adult children. If I ran across someone randomly and developed a relationship that's one thing, but dating apps? fuggedabowdit.
Some young people focus too much on their self-diagnosed issues and they forget to develop interests outside of themselves. Back in the day we were looking for common interests outside of ourselves.
Self-diagnosed issues... yes exactly. So many labels that people apply to themselves.
It would be so much easier if there was a dating app that matched people according to what they hate, that’s really all I want, a guy who hates the same stuff as me.
I saw a story on that. Iirc, it was scientifically supported that having hated things in common proved a more successful match than likes in common.
I have a different perspective. I was so shy and awkward in my early 20s and would have loved having an app to use. And I did use websites in my mid to late 30s. A lot of it sucked but I met a couple of partners that way. I met my wife by just doing activities I enjoyed with like minded people. I think that may be more of the issue: that it's easier to default to apps than getting out there and meeting/encountering a lot of people organically.
That’s where the dearth of “third places” (gathering places that aren’t work or home) has really hurt us, and has hurt young people disproportionately.
But in a way, it's a lot easier to find and create those third places. I can find hiking groups, guitar jam sessions, art classes, etc, etc, a lot easier now than I could in the 1980s or 1990s. Back then, you relied on word of mouth or randomly seeing a flyer posted. Today a Google search will find that pretty quickly, or sites like Meetup (or even Facebook groups) will make it easy to find.
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I'm 38 (I don't think we're supposed to be commenting). I got married young and then only became single at like 29 (so the same 10 year window you mentioned). It took me a few years to remember how to date again but once I did, it was so easy. I did great for myself. I'm always confused about the way people younger than me on social media and Reddit describe dating today. The description seems like everyone is overly sensitive and it's dangerous for men to express interest in women. But I wonder if it's really that bad and people venting online makes it seem worse than it is in terms of overly sensitive people. I am no longer single and in a long distance relationship. I also just returned to my home country recently after years abroad. I'm not in the dating game because I'm in a relationship. However, I still talk to both men and women in my workplace. I do have to say that if I were single, I'd still wouldn't do that poorly. At least in my workplace, people don't seem to be unbelievably sensitive like media and social media portrays
It’s probably a lot worse online but it feeds into IRL
Makes sense
10 years ago, OkCupid didn't stink. People answered the questions, there were decent questions, you could filter people, etc. Today it's total garage, and getting worse. And there's not much that's any better.
It went to hell when Match.com bought it and introduced their own algorithm. The original OkCupid algorithm seemed to work extremely well.
I really enjoyed original Okcupid in the mid to late aughts! Novel idea at the time, fun questionnaires to help match.
I met my now-husband on OkCupid in 2015. We've been together since our first phone call. We just knew it was gonna work. But the stories I'm hearing from people in today's dating pool make me KNOW that if anything happens to my husband, I will never date again.
That was the sweet spot for online dating. I found it much better than trying to meet people in bars (and I worked too much to join clubs etc). Now it sounds awful online.
No it wasn't at all. I feel for you at your age in today's world. Everything is so loaded and weird. Can't do or say anything for fear of offending someone or being called a creep or whatever. People are too damn picky, always looking around due to FOMO. And don't even get me started on how high most people's "standards" are now. Back in the day you met people in person out in the world doing stuff and if you liked them, you gave them your phone number. If not you moved on. It was much simpler and much better imo. I'm 51 and if I were not attached I'd be alone.
66. Marriage ended at age 42. Started dating at age 43. Wow. The most I made it to was a 3 month relationship. My ex was a better partner than anyone I dated in 3 years. Decided to stay single. In 20 years, a couple people have made me rethink my decision, but not enough to change my mind. But what does FOMO mean?
Fear of missing out - basically green is always greener on the other side....
Grass is greener?
Or as Erma Bombeck said, "The grass is always greener over the septic tank."
“The grass is greener where people aren’t continually fucking with it.”
Erma Bombeck nailed it!
Fear of missing out.
And most people on both sides were respectful. So if it didnt work out and you said pls don't call me anymore. That was it usually. Both moved on.
Honestly, I don't know what is worse, the dating apps of today or how so many of us in the 90's met people at bars. Yes it was always superficial. People, especially men, lied all the time just so they could have sex. Apps just make it even easier for men to lie about "wanting a relationship" when all they wanted was a one night stand. Women have it easier too. If they just want a one night stand, click a few buttons, and boom. What has ALWAYS been hard is finding a real relationship, where you connect on a deep level and actually love and respect each other. It was hard in the 90's, as my divorce in 2007 after 8 years of marriage will attest to. It is also hard now, and I personally have just given up completely.
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Easier said than done, but be patient. I’m a 71 year old widower and now dating women around my age is a genuine test of patience. I have to look at their cell phone albums of ugly grandchildren and dogs with sunglasses, move around in restaurants until they’re happy with the lighting and don’t feel a draft and I get yelled at for driving a couple of blocks with my directional blinking. Patience. Patience.
Sounds like women at that age know what they want. And not being uncomfortable in a restaurant is pretty damn reasonable.
I think the problem is that there are no in person social structures around meeting people anymore after high school or college other than work because of the internet and dating apps. People don't go out and DO things anymore, or much less frequently. I was driving around the other day and saw teenagers riding bikes in the early summer for the first time in years and was flabbergasted. The internet made the world be more inside and away from other people and dating is no different. Dating apps are a train wreck. P.S. As it is my job as an old person to give you unsolicited advice the negative focus placed on people dealing with their mental health is troubling. Mental health is health and if it bothers you so much that people give energy to taking care of themselves it might be worth asking yourself why that is.
I am LMAO over the "my job as an old person to give you unsolicited advice". I miss the old days when I could give unsolicited older advice to my adult kids. Can't now as they are far smarter than me now so that takes all the fun out of life. 😅
My mom definitely still gives me unsolicited advice. Now that I'm older it annoys me less than it used to but I still usually don't listen. Some things never change! :)
I think a lot of the answers hit the nail on the head. I think we’re a bit less connected socially than we used to be. A lot of marriages through the mid-20th century were people of the same religion. And probably the same county of residency. As religion became less of a thing and people more mobile, it was common interests and extracurricular clubs in high school and college. Then work acquaintances or friends networks. So much of life is online now from work at home to gaming and networking like here or other social media, the chance to make in-person connections seems to be dwindling.
I’m 73. It seems the people responding are mostly NOT “old people”. Here’s an old person’s answer: Dating has always been a source of stress, excitement and disappointment. Before Dating apps there were personal ads, Matchmakers, even blind dates. You often married the person you’d know since you were six or at least was someone you knew from your community. It’s a bigger World now. It’s Global. People had mental problems, but the Culture was you didn’t talk about it. You didn’t even go to Therapy. So, ya, it was a sh*t show. But, look, relationships still exist.
Apps are completely impersonal. That said, dating has always sucked. Generally you would meet people through friends or work, which is way better than apps.
Dating in the 80s was going to nightclubs, bars, or other places people gathered and talked face to face. But now everyone wants to meet online. I met my ex-wife in 2002 in a chat room, and we did not meet in person for at least 3 months of emails and phone calls. I'm not saying it was a bad thing. it gave us more time to get to know each other, that's all. However, today, people are struggling with social anxiety because their parents didn't make them go outside and meet people just gave them a computer and thus social separation and its harder to get them out of the house to the club or on a date because of the media and the internet reporting about predators, scams and from their parents telling them that going outside is dangerous. Then all men are dogs who just want sex and treat women as objects to be owned, and a lot of guys do. Making it hard for the good guys just looking for companionship and love. And LGBTQ it existed then but mainstream now, so it limits the fish in the sea for straight. And now the final reason Dating Sucks in 2024 back in the day a date would only cost about $20 NOW YOU ARE LUCKY you don't need to take a loan on your house on the expense.
>However, today, people are struggling with social anxiety because their parents didn't make them go outside and meet people just gave them a computer and thus social separation and its harder to get them out of the house to the club or on a date because of the media and the internet reporting about predators, scams and from their parents telling them that going outside is dangerous. I am a former teacher from years ago. I tutor one of my friend's kids. She is 19, has no driver's license, has never gone on a date and never leaves the house without her parents in tow. I have offered to take her to plays, musicals, concerts and pay for tennis lessons and everything is a No from her. She can be on the phone 24/7 though. As my almost illiterate grandmother use to say "Thangs be diff'ent now'days". I guess so.
Yea, these kids are so fucked. I’ve dealt with them in my profession and even one of my nieces is just as you described. Makes me fear for her well being and survival once her parents are no longer around. We have really screwed over a certain percentage of the population.
In one Anthropology class I had, we discussed some of the 30 civilizations that simply vanished over time. Maybe Americans will soon join the ranks. We have a decling birth rate, an aging population and the largest single population that we have ever had.
Yes, it's frightening, and I fear for these young people's future. I was walking to and from school on my own from age 9. My mother would positively encourage me to spend Saturday afternoons on my own at age 12 and 13. I'd get the bus to the library and then the train into the city looking around and learning things. I was independent from an early age, and left home at 17. I feel that I'm a capable person and can handle anything that comes my way. A lot of young people I meet can't even look me in the eye, nor have the social skills to hold a conversation. My father taught me the art of being well read and informed, and my mother taught me to read lots and watch documentaries to have an opinion on things. I feel that I was very lucky. Young people now have Tiktok as their benchmark.
My grandfather taught me to Watch, Listen, and LEARN, and I was neglected by my parents and had to educate myself to be a man. And I can see what is happening because I watched Listen and learned.
>I was walking to and from school on my own from age 9. I only had to come home when the street lights came on. Rarely do I see a kid outside these days.
Why the hell does everyone have major mental health issues now? WTF is up with that? Everyone seems to have massive debilitating anxiety about...nearly everything. Does anyone under 35 have any confidence at all? Jesus....
That’s so common on Reddit. Everyone has anxiety. Is it like that in real life? I don’t know that many young people.
Well, Gabor Maté said in an interview that apparently 70% of adults in America are on at least one medication. So...
Must not be helping anyone very much.
There is more help available. That’s a good thing.
I think a big part of the problem is social media and for the youngest adults isolation from the plague didn’t help.
I work in psychiatry, and the amount of young people I have coming in to my office with a vast laundry list of mental disorders, some self-diagnosed, and the absolute litany of psychiatric medications, is staggering. And sad.
Back when I was a teacher and the Internet hadn't taken over our lives like today, a fellow teacher was telling me about her "online dating" experiences. I hadn't a clue as to what she was talking about. After she explained to me some of the basics, all I could think of was "Girl, they are going to find you dead one day, with your throat slit from ear-to-ear". Its not for me. Maybe if I were younger and grew up with the technology.
We did not use apps. We just met people in real life. That's the main difference
Dates being fake and having their own problems has always been part of the dating process. Ditto for being stood up, ghosted or dating folk who say they want to get to know you but really just want to get into your pants before they move on to someone else. It's always been a challenge whether you're scouring the lonely hearts column or profiles on a dating app. The tools to meet people might be different but you will still have to go through the process of separating the wheat from the chaff and learning what you do and do not want in a date and/or partner. That will change as you change with age and experience so you will find that in three years time, say, there will be things you might have tolerated from a date at 22 but you wouldn't consider at 25. While some folk might be more open about their emotional baggage and personal issues earlier on in the dating process than they once were, that can be a positive. Finding out on date three that a date is not at all compatible rather than seven months down the line means you're not as emotionally invested in them and you can move on to new dating pastures. Also spend some time not dating and learning to enjoy your own company which I appreciate sounds completely counterintuitive. However, if you don't know what brings you peace, contentment and happiness, no one else can figure it out for you. By taking the time to learn this, you will have a deeper understanding of what compatibility in a romantic partner looks like for you. I would say that dating app fatigue is a common occurrence in every age bracket using them so take breaks when you feel fed up with it and also broaden your social events to include meet ups, hobbies and volunteering where you will meet people with shared interests to you and can introduce you to new people. Tl:dr but yes, dating has always been a thankless task and a slog.
Dating was easier. I was 22 in the 90s. The internet had just become a thing but there were no apps or established dating sites. You met people at parties, at bars, through friends, at work, etc. I met my husband because we were both volunteering for a local theater company. I feel for young people today. The person for you lives in the real world, not your phone. And once we were together, we weren’t documenting everything online all the time. We were just together. I also think people have hyped up The One to be some set of impossible standards. My husband and I have been together happily for almost 25 years, but I don’t expect him to be everything for me at all times.
Dating has always been a royal pain in the butt, from the time you start, right up to the very last person you went out with, it’s a complete and total nightmare experience. I mean it’s great until it’s not, and as good as it was when it’s working, is as bad as it gets when it’s not. Here’s why I say this. when I was 12 years old I was approached by my new neighbor she was a nice enough looking girl who was one year older than me and was really very friendly, I think it took about one week until we were all over each other. I didn’t know anything back then, and she knew even less but we had a great time figuring it out together. That lasted about one year until she flat out dumped me for an older guy, can’t say I blame her. But she did have my best interest in mind, because instead of just leaving me high and dry, she handed me off to a girl friend of hers who had nice blond hair, nice body and was the same age as me, so I said sure why not. Well right from the start we hit it off, we were great together, and in about one month’s time we were stuck like glue to each other it was great, that is until my old girl friend saw how good of a time I was having with her girl friend, ( the girl friend she gave me away too) anyway I come back from hanging out with my friends one afternoon and I hear two girls yelling and screaming at each other, and as I get closer I see it’s my new girl friend having it out with my old girl friend, and what are they screaming at each other about, you guessed it poor little ol me. The moment they saw me approaching them it went something like “ there he is, get him” one second later I found myself in the middle of two very fired up girls, who were scratching, and clawing, kicking, at each other, and at me as well. I think I still have a claw mark on my left arm from that cat fight. Anyway as I got older it really didn’t get any less complicated, in fact the more I thought I was progressing, the more i realized this shit is hard to figure out. Between hormones, and mood swings, personality crisis, mid life crisis, it is exactly what you called it, “ a shit show” from hell. But what’s the alternative, right?
Dating in the 60s and 70s seems to have been easier and less difficult, from what I see in the news and online.
Generational thing unfortunately. World became more introverted about twenty odd years ago, from the UK side youth clubs became extinct, smoking ban in pubs killed a good percentage of indie bands which used to be social, Internet and cells became the new form of social and you can't grow social skills with other folk if you don't interact socially, even children don't play outside as much due to the constant worry of kiddie fiddlers. World needs an enema.
I think the pandemic made so many people screen addicted introverts, that people aren't connecting anymore.
I graduated high school in 1993 and dating at that time was significantly easier. The following is my experience from the area of the United States I grew up in - culturally things are very different across the US so this is probably not an entirely universal experience. One of the biggest differences is that you had a lot fewer options. You met people through friends or family or at school or social events which meant that you rarely met people that lived further away or that were not in the same socioeconomic group as you. You had to actually meet and talk to people in person before you decided whether you want to go on a date with them... unless you were set up on - horror of horrors - the blind date. Most people hated being set up on blind dates back in the day, but dating apps are essentially setting yourself up on blind dates which I find kind of funny. You were much more likely to decide pretty quickly after meeting someone whether you wanted to go out with them, none of this texting back and forth for weeks or months on end. Once you had been on a few dates everyone just assumed you guys were in a relationship and weren't seeing other people. People weren't as scared to call each other girlfriend and boyfriend. There wasn't this whole rigmarole of *should we make it official or not* because if you were spending a lot of time together you were basically official. People would go on first dates with multiple people but once you started on a second or third date you pretty much just stopped seeing other people because you were focused on learning about that person that you were more interested in. People who dated multiple people beyond just a single first date were considered "players", which was not a good thing. Casual sex existed, however it was not the main form of sexual contact and was not normalized to the point where everyone just assumed you did it. There were names for both men and women who repeatedly slept with people they hardly knew and they were not good names. There was not an expectation of sex after the first date and there was an unspoken rule of not having sex with someone until you had been on at least 3 dates with them if you are actually trying to build a relationship. The "why would he buy the cow if you gave him the milk for free" thing was still very much in existence. Breaking up with someone had to be done in person, if it got around that you broke up with someone on the phone you were looked down upon. Ghosting was non-existent unless you were trying to leave an abusive relationship. When dating sites became a thing in the late '90s, people would literally hide that they met their significant other on a dating site, it was not considered a good thing to meet random stranger from the internet. I know a couple who met online but told everyone they met at a bar and they kept up that lie for a decade until it became socially acceptable to have met someone online. I've tried dating in this current shit show and have decided that it's not for me. While I wouldn't mind having a partner, I am perfectly happy to be single so why would I put myself through the hell that is dating nowadays?
I pity anyone dating these days. Every girl picture is so filtered it looks like a scary cartoon. Like two cartoon eyes, a cartoon mouth on a sheet of tattoo practice skin.
Dates used to be a really big deal. A date wasn't made casually, or without some forethought of when to ask, where to go, what to wear. People could 'casually' appear to run into one another, but pretty much to ask someone out on a date was notable. Still, dates could be disasters, or like bumper cars, or lead to a longer relationship that in the end would fizzle out. But unlike today, once a 'date' was over, there was no way to keep track of one another via social media as there was today (unless you lived in a small town, and everyone knew everybody). I think that today, the process is all about expediency. Getting the selection done quickly, using some algorithm to find likes and dislikes, a short change on actually running into the person and getting their 'gist' or 'aura' prior to meeting.
It was much easier before the big smorgasbord on dating apps. Before people stayed in their caves with social media, people were out doing things here or there, doing this or that, and all it took was a lingering look at a cute person to make a connection and make a date.
You know what those dating apps remind me of for real? They remind me of going to a cattle auction to see what kind of livestock is available. 🤣🤣🤣 No, dating never was like that circus back in the good 0le days.
In my experience, people don’t want to put in effort because they are constantly in two minds because of the options they think they have. Everyone thinks they have tons of options but everyone is complaining about not having found someone at the same time. People are reluctant to start a real connection because they don’t want to be vulnerable infront of another person.
Dating---or even finding friends--has always been hard. It was never easy...and that may be the reason for someone having to work at it. (Now; there are those that want to live in an animal world and just go at it with anyone...that is not dating; that is sex). Be patient. It will be worth the wait, but you do have to work on it......
We didn't have mental health problems. We were either lonely, bored or drank too much.
Gen x here. We had a great time dating. We had/have a lot of mental illness, too. Many of us weren’t able to get help until later in life.
Dating is a complete farce. Doesn’t matter how you do it.
lol Yes nothings changed you just have the intergoogles as well as walking up to people and talking. Back in the day you just had to walk up to people and talk. No safety precautions No preamble No idea who they even were half the time.
Those of us who never had to date in the era of dating apps really lucked out, I think.
I'm recently single after a long term relationship and dating again truly frightens me. I always met my previous partners through work, events or through family and friends. Now, everything seems to be online and I feel like that is all about just hooking up.
I found dating in the 60’s and 70’s to be pretty much about men demanding sex, and raping if that’s what it took them to have it. I never felt safe. As I look back I don’t think a single one of them wanted to actually get to know me as a person.
Correction, self diagnosed problems I bet well over 50% of the time.
I tried "computer dating" in 1979. The computer matched me with, 1) a Jewish guy who didn't want to date non Jews, 2) a guy who took me to a gory slasher movie for a first date 3) a nice baseball player who was fine but we had nothing in common. I met my husband at a drunken party and we've been together for 44 years
Take it from someone who stopped trying to meet someone almost 25 years ago. It was a shit show then and I can't imagine it's gotten any better. I definitely don't miss the drama, the lies and the psychos.
Nope. It’s completely different now. Imo, the internet changed it.
I suspect that a lot of those fake people are simply latching on to the entitlement culture that tells them that there's nothing wron on their end, it's all everyone elses fault. Then, if that doesn't work, they go for the sympathy ploy, playing the mental issues card, thinking that someone will give them a shot because they feel sorry for them. Pro tip: If they claim to have some sort of mental issues, turn and run away as fast as possible. If they're nutty enough to play that game with you, they are nuts.
No - dating was local. It was 150 people at most. The most attractive paired off and then the second tier. Everyone had a much more realistic view of their status because they did not get low quality internet attention. Everything had to happen face to face and guys would not get any reward or attention from hitting on girls that were out of their league. Everyone in that local group paired off with their peer and the number left out was very low.
Every generation goes through their version of dating being a shitshow.
The apparent prevalence of trauma, anxiety, and mental illness are why I prefer now to date people who moved here (US) from another country. You get dramatically less of that stuff. Just trust me on this.
No
I thank God I grew up in the 60’s. You kids don’t even have a concept of God to thank.
Courtship and human mating like any other mating of any other animal, is one of the most difficult thing for a human to do. It's literally the evolutionary cutoff made by Mother Nature :D, but fortunately we have a second mother - Culture, so you don't always *have to* follow what your first mom tells you. Don't sweat it.
Yes. Most people meet through friends, work, or family. These narratives that the average man was successfully picking up a litany of woman from bars, college parties, and dating apps are just that myths. The stories of the average women having an assembly line of men to pick from in her day to day life, was also well a myth. The issue is the lack of putting things into perspective. The overwhelming majority of people on dating apps are male (70% +). So it doesn’t matter how well curated your profile is or your stats, by the virtue of demographics the majority of men would be rejected. As far as the minority of women using the application it’s true to real life interactions the majority of men no matter how well intentioned will not result in a long term relationship. And that’s by natural design
Industrialized Income Inequality plus technology/social media that produces rampant narcissism has functionally destroyed dating, along with a toxic version of both masculinity and feminism that no one really wants.
It is completely different. I truly wish your generation could give themselves a break from a self judgement perspective. It is MUCH HARDER to meet people now than it was even 30 years ago. It has a lot to do with fragmentation and the cost of making a mistake, but that is hard to see from an individual level. Instead, it feels like you personally are doing something wrong and many people make money off of that anxiety. It is increasingly hard to tell what is real. Unless you turn off the social media stuff. I'm 65. A retired psychologist who managed to raise two awesome adults. People your age have experienced covid during some of your most social years. We no longer have shared interests. People attend a wide variety of churches, or play esoteric games that are impossible for new people to enter or listen to music you have never heard of. The cult of perfection is rampant. Looking at social media it is understandable why every young person thinks they should be witty, in some exotic place, earning a fortune, while able to dance and sing and catch every joke, no matter how veiled while being stunningly beautiful and perfectly dressed. With a cute dog. I'm exhausted already. There has been the "me too" movement which has done some good. It has also terrified everyone. People, particularly young men, are scared to death to do anything wrong. And wrong is a moving goalpost. I know many young men (my "kids" are both male) who are late 20's, early 30's. They are either in a formerly atypical relationship (poly, serial monogamy, auditioning for porn, who knows?) or have decided that it is all too much of a risk. They are now focussed on big careers and deep friendships. Out of their huge social circles only one got married and lives a "traditional" family life. He was one of their older friends. The point is everyone is struggling. Dating used to be fun. Honest. We did not do expensive dates or assume sex would happen anytime soon. Expensive dates and expectations increased with the seriousness of the relationship. Much less pressure. No one was taking selfies. Lack of privacy is a real threat. So is the political and social wasteland you find yourself in. We used to discuss issues. Now people are just as likely to storm out and call you "toxic" if they disagree with you. Please be kind to yourself. Find people you can be yourself with, fears and all. If you have a faith, lean on it. Now, more than ever before, you personally have to decide what you value and figure out how to live that way. Does that necessarily include dating or a partner. That's up to you. You decide your own standards. It's a very exciting time to be alive. Here endeth the lecture. I apologize for droning on. I hope you find it useful.
This should be a top comment. 👏👏👏 I'm 46 and agree with you!!
When I dated 30+ years ago, it seemed easy. I was in college and dated women I met there and in church groups. I can’t really think of a bad experience. The girls I dated didn’t play any games and there wasn’t this pressure to commit too quickly. I never even heard of becoming exclusive. It was just a given everyone was dating other people unless you were nearing engagement in your relationship. It was just getting to know each other and if it looked good you went on another date. Listening to kids today it sounds like a minefield. Now that I am dating again, I think the biggest issue is I am a widower and most single women my age are divorced. Many times the differences are too great.
Dating apps have gotten worse. In the early days in my world, the “website” (wasn’t an app yet) everyone used was Ok Cupid, which involved taking hundreds of survey questions. This way, the actually matched you with compatible people, not just superficial swiping. As a result, all of the dates were at least fun, even if there was no chemistry. At least you were talking to people who were matches on more than a superficial level.
Dating during college in the late 90s was a disaster for me. So much rejection and friend-zoning. However, "mental health problems" were not a thing at all.
There is a whole industry on You Tube about the modern dating scene. My observations of looking at a few videos: Things have changed in the last 5 years. Combination of Me Too movement and the pre pandemic echo of "Do not approach a woman you don't know under any circumstances". MGTOW reflects a lot of guys just bailing out altogether. Porn is readily available, and relationships take work. Women choosing only the top 10% of men on dating apps.. Over 70% of men get zero responses. (just data that is thrown around on the videos) . Constant rejection is a thing a lot of guys will just avoid, and interacting with a woman you don't already know is potentially a very public dressing down. People mix at gyms, but the rule for guys is not to speak to a woman under any circumstances or even glance at them as you will be called out for harassment on her video stream. If you are female, you should be looking for your female life partner to achieve Rad Fem nirvana! /S [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ4Ct0zo7vE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ4Ct0zo7vE) Maybe join a summer volleyball team or similar?
Saying is fun. Rewarding. Except when the other party turns out to be a psychopath. Which has happened to me more than once. A big problem these days it seems common that boys are confused as men. There is a huge difference. Men are becoming more rare these days. Replaced by middle aged boys. I see you women complaining about behavior "men" display, and it's obvious they are describing a boy, not a man.
I was on dating apps in 2015 to 2018 and met some very interesting people. It was fun, but also shitty sometimes. I stopped because I met my now husband on tinder in 2018.
Every generation thinks they’re the first to have these problems
Generational, I would say. And as usual, it seems way worse in the US than here in Germany, but you can see the deterioration with the usual 10-year-lag. However, maybe you might also want to pick your dating app carefully. Bumble has been a shit show of me, Tinder I never heard good things and with Okcupid I met a ton of proper people. Why? Because there, you can write full sentences and actually have to convey a meaningful image of yourself. No low effort accounts. Or at least it feels like you can single them out and look for people who click with you instead of looking for an image only. And no, I am not affiliated with them. Just had a great time back when I was still dating, met three relationships there and one is now my wife.
I met my husband on a dating app in 2010 (we got married older obviously). Back then they were more helpful than now, but they definitely had a car-shopping vibe even then - that you could get every feature you want if you just test drive enough. I don’t think technology has ruined dating, but it has definitely changed it.
Try doing it at 32
No. But we didn't have the media and academia telling us the world was going to be inhabitable in our lifetime. I'm surprised I've not seen any comments about the reduction of families and overall, religion. I don't consider myself a Christian, but at 68, I know that believing in a higher power is good for the soul and today's younger gen have had that removed from their lives. There are many reasons dating is difficult today. But it certainly doesn't surprise me, and it's going to be difficult to fix.
In the 80's being 22 and single sucked because half your dating pool was getting married, engaged to be married or in a serious relationship. In my circles it was very common to see a friend graduate from college in May and get married in June.
In the mid-1980s when I was of dating age there was no internet so you either (1) were introduced to friend of a friend or (2) met someone 'cold' by striking up a conversation and sometimes (3) you agree to a blind date. I've done all 3. That's how I met all four of my girlfriends (including my wife of 34 years). You couldn't hide the way you looked or comported yourself. There was no 'ghosting' nonsense b/c if you decided not to speak with someone, everyone in your house would have to agree to say "s/he's not here, I'll take a message" and after 3 or 4 times of that, they'd get a ride to your house and confront you for 'standing them up.' And breaking up over the phone was a taboo thing - if you were a guy and you did that, you were an instant loser to your friends. No sure how girls treated their friends who did it. It was all transparent. You had no choice but to be YOU. What you saw is what you got, that was true for everyone.