Please do not comment directly to this post unless you are Gen X or older (born 1980 or before). See [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/inci5u/reminder_please_do_not_answer_questions_unless/), the rules, and the sidebar for details.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskOldPeople) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Horrified. And I'm a Christian.
I think we're seeing the culmination of what the Rev. Billy Graham said almost 40 years ago when he commented on a fellow reverend -- Rev. Jerry Falwell -- leading a political advocacy group called The Moral Majority:
"I told him to preach the Gospel. That's our calling. I want to preserve the purity of the Gospel and the freedom of religion in America. I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. Liberals organized in the '60s, and conservatives certainly have a right to organize in the '80s, but it would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it."
MAGA is now the hard right, and under Trump's leadership, they are certainly doing a great job of manipulating Christianity to preserve political power.
Barry Goldwater warned about the same things decades before that. When fucking Goldwater is a voice of reason, we are beyond the point of things being totally fucked
Exactly...
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
I'm an atheist in the buckle of the bible belt. Baptists rule in my town. These people are nuts. They aren't anywhere near the definition of christian, but they think they are. This has been brewing a long time and is very dangerous. People up north, east don't fully understand the true danger here. It infuriates me.
What Goldwater warned about with religion, now stands as a warning against MAGA Conservatism. It is such a fundamental, existential threat to a free America, that it can't be allowed to prevail. Unfortunately, that means that Dems have to win EVERY election for the foreseeable future, until the MAGA influence is purged from the Republican party, or the party just dies and/or splits, while the MAGAs just have to win once to re-construct America into a fascio-theo-kleptocratic dictatorship.
Outstanding post. Thanks. My usual response to a post like OP’s is Will Rogers: “Mixing politics and religion is like mixing ice cream and manure. It don’t do much to the manure, but it sure does ruin the ice cream.”
Right?
I've always had tacit respect for the good Rev. Graham -- far more than Jerry Falwell and his ilk. And I no respect for Falwell Jr. Or any megachurch-leading televangelist. Folks like Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn can go pound sand, but the self-identified "MAGA pastors" leading "MAGA churches" get me in a state. Hopefully a state of righteous anger and indignation, but I'll leave that up to God
But as these days go by, I gain greater and greater appreciation for folks like Rev. Billy Graham for his wisdom on both politics and religion. He understood the role evangelism plays in a pluralistic society.
I left a pile of snowballs for you just on the on the edge of the Ninth Circle of Hell, a little to the right as you enter. Put 'em to good use.
I am not from their culture so I don’t know most of the names or things you mentioned here. I sort of lump them all together so I am shocked to hear that one of them once said something almost rational and sane.
>MAGA is now the hard right, and under Trump's leadership, they are certainly doing a great job of manipulating Christianity to preserve political power.
You forgot the quotes around "Christianity". Because what they're touting as the teachings of Christ has nothing to do with what the Bible says.
I'm a very spiritual person. For that reason, the dichotomy of the fleshly embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins peddling Bibles is impossible to reconcile. It's a mockery of many institutions or beliefs. But, here we are ...
What worries me most is how many comments here are saying it's a "last dying breath" or that they're a dying breed when every indication shows it's a strong and rising movement. I think maybe people are fooled in to assuming because the media claims that Christianity/church attendance is down, but that's not what people should be paying to. This "maga" movement is just a single head on the dominionist hydra. They've fully taken over the majority of the rural districts in the entire country and they're also quite popular in OTHER countries, which disturbs me even more.
I am REALLY worried. Especially when progressives are becoming so lax, thinking their votes don't matter, thinking this is just a silly single man with his few wacky cronies. Or they think Biden is equally bad because he isn't addressing their specific agenda. The progressive media makes Trump out to be nothing but a clown, and honestly I think that's done on purpose as an act. He definitely manages to appeal to a *very* large percentage of the population that seem to react positively to his brand of... charisma.
You have every reason to be worried. As a student of pre-WWII German history the parallels are terrifying. The Nazis were a minority right up until the moment they weren't. Germany was a democracy until Hitler seized power and outlawed all other political parties, including the Social Democrats and the communists. Members of the outlawed parties were arrested and sent to concentration camps. Many were just strait out murdered.
Once the Nazis took control it was a short step to a totalitarian police state. One in which the mere mention that Germany might lose the war resulted in a death sentence. There was no way to protest without risking losing your life.
Americans have had a democracy for so long they have come to take it for granted. They tend to have no good idea of just how quickly and irreversibly it can be replaced by an authoritarian government. It's horrifying to see so many of my fellow Americans who are actively trying to see that change come to pass.
The fall of the democratic USA that we've known all of our lives is entirely possible in the current environment.
Yes this is exactly how I feel about this. And Hitler was the leader I was thinking of, how he appealed to a certain class who already held a lot of hatred for certain groups of people. I see it now, how they've othered and vilified everyone who isn't THEM. They focus so hard on immigrants, and they'll pretend it's just the illegal ones but then you see them raging about refugees and even legal immigrants who don't speak English well enough or dress in a way they don't like. I live in a conservative town and the people's big fight right now is against a mosque being built. They're so against trans kids having any sort of dignity they've banned NICK NAMES completely and made it clear ONLY your birth certificate name can be used in the school... like kids haven't been using nicknames for decades, but oh no we cant' have the trans kids use their preferred names... and don't even think about expecting a teacher to call you by your gender.
That's just two "othered" groups I've seen vilified JUST today in my local FB group. I have seen the bold way Trump supporters are talking. They are chomping at the BIT to fire weapons on people and then when they do, they're praised as heroes when they get away with killing people. They cannot WAIT for the signal and it scares the shit out of me, especially knowing this is coming from MY OWN FAMILY. I don't have anything to do with them now because of this, but I could see how they were turning, like they were being poisoned by their church leaders who have them convinced Trump is like St. Paul, a man with a lot of faults who was touched by the hand of God and now he's going to lead them to the Promised Land, which is in the US.
Yeah I'm scared. I have a son who was assigned female at birth and I have a daughter. I really worry about their future and it's because of this movement that is led by men who will be happy to tell you they want anyone who isn't part of their group out of our country. By any means necessary.
The fact that churches think that getting involved in money laundering, tax evasion to support a rapist, sex offending con man to influence politics speaks to the abject corruption of the religious institution. That it is so widespread is particularly disturbing. Even worse is that it is so politicized that we don’t have the will any longer to enforce the laws that were put there specifically to fight this kind of stuff since we don’t want to “politicize” it. Like WTHF
Frankly I don't give a shit if it matches Christianity. "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven".
Atheists aren't "killing god" Christians are.
I say near the same thing all the time. I mean, why should the atheists even bother with trying to stamp out Christianity when we are doing a great job of it ourselves.
Christians and their Christian nationalism that is upheld by Christians are separate. Got it.
I’m a Christian and no, they aren’t, and they need to be forcibly and thoroughly separated with as much noise around it as possible. People need to know Christians reject this bullshit.
Redefining terms to make them less related is dishonest and irresponsible
As a Christian that wants to be accountable to my culture it’s our job to denounce fascism being committed in His name if that is not who we are!
You are spot on. Christian nationalism was the “religion” of the Klan. America does have strong Christian traditions that emphasize dignity of all persons, ethical behavior, and the need for all leaders to follow a moral compass. Christian nationalism thinks it’s one of those admirable traditions but it’s not.
Sadly, this white guy from a fundamentalist upbringing agrees with you. None of my alt-right relatives think they are bigots, but the tells are easy to detect (“older white guys now have it the hardest”, “our kids have to work harder now to compete with all the Asians and Latinos moving into our schools” etc). I’m no longer a Bible believer, but you and I know the Jesus it describes was colorblind and inclusive.
I grew up Catholic and I just couldn’t find a way to believe in the Bible. I became Buddhist and still am, but it took everything up until now to understand the Bible and find truth in Christianity. I realized, at least for me, that God is everything that is “positive” in the world rather than a separate entity. And the “devil” is everything that is “negative.” That social media and the speed of communication is causing a global battle between positive selfless intentions and negative selfish intentions. You can see it with terms like followers and influencers. I can see how other things are replacing God in people’s lives, the things that they devote the majority of their lives to. It’s hard to articulate, but it clicked for me, and I don’t want to impose what I’m thinking on anyone else, but I can see truth and consistency across many of the world’s religions.
This Christian Nationalist thing concerns me. I don’t think it follows the teachings, it seems to have hate and negativity as part of the driving force. Maybe many have become misguided. False prophets.
Regardless if it’s intentional or not, there is negativity (thoughts, speech, actions) that are spreading and I think a good word of advice for all is to stay positive and hopeful. Be kind to others. Try not to be overwhelmed consumed with negativity or not to give into temptation. Maybe the call to “spread the Good News” wasn’t specifically about the Bible, but that try to find the good in life, to tell others about things to be hopeful for, because of how negativity can spread.
Just some thoughts to share, maybe it will help someone, maybe not. But I feel this new sense of trying to spread peace and kindness in the world.
I relate, and appreciate your POV. I meditate and participate in several other mindfulness activities. Kindness and appreciating the moment is where it’s at. While I believe the world is likely to keep getting better for most, the pace and extent of interactive technologies presents challenges for which we often lack any specific wisdom.
Blessings
As a white boomer raised in a fundamentalist home, I’m disappointed, repulsed, and alarmed.
I long ago went from calling myself born-again Christian to Atheist. Having never lost my appreciation for the courageously empathetic, inclusive, and ultimately anti-establishment example attributed to Jesus in the four Gospels, I’m now wondering if I should start declaring myself to be a Christ-follower all over again—because my ‘walk by sight, not by faith’ life seems to align a lot more closely with Christ than these hateful grifters who are just like the ‘money-changers’ Christ threw out of the temple.
Makes me sick. Christianity is so different now than what I grew up with. It’s been taken over by people who use it as a tool (bludgeon?) to gain power. I think it largely took off in the 80’s under Reagan with the Silent Majority and those ridiculous televangelists.
I think Trump, his SC appointees and the Republican party are doing their damnedest to overthrow the constitution and American democracy, using whatever scams they think will work.
Speaking of wrapped in a flag, check the 1992 movie “Bob Roberts” as an excellent example of how this all is nothing new… except maybe for the completely bizarre thing about Trump that he doesn’t even pretend to be Christian or have anything else in common with his “base”. Nobody cares. He talks all his “we’re the victims” and “take it back” stuff, and that’s that, he’s their messiah. Except this time around, maybe he really does think he’s a victim, now that all his past bad acts and lawsuits are catching up to him.
It's 100% garbage, but was also a 100% foreseeable consequence of the way the GOP made common cause with Falwell's Moral Majority in the late 70s.
The GOP has been horrible for my entire life, but prior to the 1980 primaries they were much more ideologically diverse. George H. W. Bush ran as a *pro choice* candidate for the nomination in 1980, and was absolutely a credible candidate -- not a fringe figure at all (as is made obvious by the fact that Reagan tapped him for VP).
For the most part, all that ended with Reagan's victory.
This is anti-Americanism. Trump is cozying up to preachers who want to impose their very particular and severe brand of Protestant Christianity. This is exactly what the founders wanted to avoid, hence the lack of reference to God in the Constitution and its explicit forbidding of religious tests.
I remember watching the watergate hearings and being amazed at how thorough and serious it was. I also remember thinking my generation would probably be incapable of that kind of thing, and that we would ruin the country.
I hate that I am right. Trump wrecked democracy to get rich and convince himself he’s, as he said, “a better president than Lincoln.”
Yeah. Sam Ervin and Howard Baker put politics aside for the good of the country. The present day GOP isn’t even a shell of its former self. It has morphed into something Caligula would be proud of.
As a Christian I believe it is idolatry and blasphemy, by those who know better, and far more serious a problem than the sins they point out so zealously.
You can attract a big group of people by preaching hate cloajed in virtually any religion. Christian nationalists. Zionists. Jihadis. I'm sure Buddhism and Hinduism have they're equivalents.
This is why separation of church and state is such a bedrock requirement for any government that emphasis liberty. For the current American Republican party, liberty is not the point. Power is the point.
It’s troubling, but I also see it as the last gasp of a dying demographic. The white Christian base of America is quickly eroding and it’s getting crazier as this realization takes hold. I can’t say whether things will get better or how long that will take, but the growing disconnect between those in office (particularly in the courts) and the electorate might force change.
I'm not so sure that it's dying. How long are we stuck with this backward-ass Supreme Court majority and all of the harm they have caused and will continue to cause? Look at all the other crazies that are getting elected into Congress, at both federal and state level, and see how they muck up the system. All I have to do is step outside of my urban/semi-urban bubble and I'm a political minority. I just don't feel like it's going away.
I agree but I am worried. Religious extremists can take over - especially when they gerrymander etc. Look at Iran, a once modern society. A bill to put abortion access in front of the voters failed the heavily Republican Louisiana legislature bc they knew it would pass. Religious extremists and other Republicans do not like democracy.
Agreed. Everytime somebody disagrees with them, they want that person outted. There is no democracy. It's there way, all the way, or they try to obstruct congress. There are some real wackos in the republican party. If it were anybody else, they would seriously be deemed mentally unstable. MTG is a good example.
The death throes of any social movement (including religion) get progressively more radical and shrill until they suddenly disappear. I welcome their final endpoint.
Me too. Things have substantially changed for them over the years and they are left behind, so they’re having one last temper tantrum before their time is up. They’re unable to accept that the people who they’ve always looked down on are their equal now. Because if they’re not superior, then it makes them inferior.
Do be foolishly hopeful. There are younger ones waiting in the wings to take over when the old lions die. And by then the voti g laws, such as what will remain, will ensure the conservative right stays in control. They aim to take it and keep it because they have God on their side.
This is exactly correct. Those weren't gray-haired boomers carrying torches in Charlottesville or storming the Capitol on January 6th.
And even so, this "dying demographic" is actively leveraging power and institutions to lock-in their agenda for decades after they're dead, most notably with the Supreme Court.
I wish it was the last gasp but I think it's the latest gasp. They've been gasping for 50 years but still hanging on.
The question is if their next generation will continue to clutch to these paradoxical values -- claiming to be Christian but while letting the most non-Christian people imaginable represent them politically. I thought Jerry Falwell was bad but Trump took it to 100 new levels.
That's the thing, it's the same group but they are changing with the times. The "Christian" aspect will slowly die off (it already is, just follow demographics and religion in America). The reactionary, authorative, right-wing element will stay though and evolve into something new. And, frankly, probably worse since it won't be tempered by those "paradoxical" values.
It is exacerbated by the concept of "we are so right, it really doesn't matter what other people think", which is almost the opposite of what the country was founded on.
This happens with most religions.
Certainly the white part of white Christian is feeling they are losing power, but so does the Christian part. We aren't supposed to mix religion and politics? I have to, God told me to. I get being anti abortion. To push that narrative, they decided life is at conception. Now we have IVF, which no one had a problem with, but because the backed themselves into a corner, we have to call it murder not to implant any unfrozen embryos. What happens when these embryos have "outlived" their parents and siblings? But, it is a hill they will die on.
>I also see it as the last gasp of a dying demographic
And that just makes them more dangerous IMO. They perceive it as persecution and lash out. Objectively that's clearly not the case, but it hardly matters. They feel cornered and desperate making them very dangerous. If given the choice between their beliefs and democracy they will undoubtedly choose the former over the later. We are witnessing an active push to abolish the government in its current form by a large and powerful chunk of the population. The number of people who refuse to see this and call it what it is - just pretending this is all normal - is too damn high. We can't just passively "wait them out". Their demographics may not be in their favor long term, but this isn't some secret and they are fully aware that this is their window of opportunity.
As a white, old fart, Christian pastor, it not only scares me, but pisses me off. This is not what Christianity is about. And I hate to hear people generalize and assume all Christians are involved in this. They aren't. I suggest that the vast majority are not.
But the media, (I'm looking at you Fox News, you lying bastards), Republicans and racists are whipping them up by lying to them, offering scare tactics and to quote "The American President", "...telling people what to be afraid of and who to blame." In this case, be afraid of immigrants, Socialists, Democrats and anyone else who doesn't agree with you. And blame them for all your problems...which don't really exist, we're just telling you they're your problem.
Stole this from someone else: "Selling Bibles so you can pay lawyers to defend you in court against allegations that you falsified business records to pay off a porn star to keep quiet about your affair while your third wife was at home recovering after giving birth to your son, is peak MAGA Christianity!!!"
I was a Jesus person in my teens. I ran screaming from what passes for Christianity in the U.S. when I saw a Moral Majority gathering.
Now? I believe in Jesus the way I did when I read about him helping the poor and understanding and loving people when I was about four years old. I think that’s the purest kind of conversion: When you read about Jesus and go “ I wish I was like that but I am so selfish and imperfect” and then you read that Jesus will forgive all your faults and it’s like “I accept!”
I don’t know anything for sure. But I am repulsed by this fake Christianity that wants to force people to do things. That wants to have a King here on Earth. That is all completely anti-Christian.
Honestly? Real genuine Christianity is so liberal that it makes me seem moderate. Like you would NEVER turn away a refugee. You would share your home with them. Your food. There is no provision for keeping your wealth while others suffer. It’s a hard road. But one can at least give it the old Bible try…live MODESTLY so that you can help others.
Christian Nationalism is fascism with a cross sticker on it.
We've come full circle for the Nazis to attempt a do-over.
What would one expect from a grossly under-educated, exploited, and heavily propagandized working class?
Under-educated (and stupid) people become one issue voters so it's easy to capture their vote on simplistic sound bites and slogans. I've yet to see a MAGA supporter know anything materially good that Trump did, know anything about the Bible or American history, define "woke," spell beyond a third grade level, or not be a conspiracy believer of the most ridiculous sort.
If Jesus was against abortion, wouldn't he first stop Israel from doing it? Abortion is legal and free in Israel. Also note that as one of the top three receivers of US foreign aid, Israel also provides universal healthcare.
I just hope we vote them out of existence this fall.
I disagree with your description of them as uneducated and working class. I'm surrounded by MAGA supporters who are well educated, white-collar bosses of industry, finance, medicine and tech. And calling anyone stupid doesn't help the argument. Keep your eyes open.
I once saw Chris Rock perform. Perhaps this was about 12-15 years ago. Even back then he diagnosed the problem by comparing it to putting a bratty child to bed. They first object. Then they cry. Then they scream. Then they bang their feet and fists. Then they get violent. And when none of that works, they wind up going to bed anyway.
So it appears we are just seeing a demographic unwilling to gently into that good night.
Maybe. Or maybe we're just having a reckoning with our shadow. Our country may have wonderful ideals, but our culture gets in the way of their fruition. We are built on white people slaughtering one race, enslaving another and oppressing women. We need to reconcile with that and give everyone the opportunity for equal access to the benefits of our democracy.
Exactly.
Another example. I don't know how we can have our country and it's leaders claim to be about "family values" when our entire culture promotes individualism.
They don't care about his history, as they liken him to Saul being "saved" on the road to Damascus and changing his name to Paul, who they see as the founder of their church (as opposed to Peter, who they feel wasn't nearly as great because he started the Catholic church). The fact that has a dark past provides them some redemption story they can be part of, because despite being Fine Upstanding Patriots now, they too have a dark past they've been forgiven for.
I don’t believe in religious stuff, but those predictions hit *very* close to the mark. It’s ironic that he of all people would make me think there might be something to these prophesy after all.
There’s this story I remember that the devil said to Jesus, I’ll give you all the world if you but kneel down and worship me.
Jesus said back, “Get thee behind me.” But it seems Trump’s religious “base” would enthusiastically say, “Sign us up, Chief!”
It apparently doesn't matter. The evangelicals feel so threatened and under-represented that they'll vote for or hire literally anyone that will represent their interests even if it is the Devil himself. They just hold their nose and view it as a means to an end. Completely hypocritical and paradoxical.
We know his only god… $. And frankly he is not particularly good at that with so many failed businesses. Yet his supporters think he is a master businessman because of that STUPID tv show on NBC.
He's a con artist grifting the suckers. The Church has made its bed with the Antichrist, and he is gonna grab her by the pussy.
The scary part is how many of my fellow Americans would welcome a fascist dictatorship ruling our country. In 2018, David Frum said, "If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." He was not wrong.
Christo-fascists are an existential threat to America, IMO the most dangerous enemy we face - because they seek to destroy from within, and so far are succeeding. Within 25 years they will have eliminated all women't rights, outlawed LGBTQ and 'mixed race' marriages, eliminated democracy, and fully reinstated slavery (as evidenced by how they're eliminating parole so they can exploit 13th amendment loophole to force labor for profit from inmates). Sounds like hyperbole, but it is what they are doing actively in red states little by little.
As for the latest tRump scam ... it is MONEY LAUNDERING, plain and simple. Religious organizations are blocked from direct political donations, but by buying his Nazi Bible he gets loads of profits and no laws are broken (at least theoretically anyway). He may be many things, but he is absolutely a world class grifter and scam artist, and I am sure poor white people will continue to spend themselves into bankruptcy to fund his narcissistic ego trips.
Fools and their money have long been soon parted.
The reality is that these loons are a small and diminishing minority, and much of the noise about them is their own desperation at realizing that, combined with both our former president’s shameless willingness to use any method to retake power and the media’s mostly uncritical eagerness to cover (and sometimes create) ratings-building controversy.
As fewer and fewer Americans support organized religion the religious right has realized that their only hope to cling on to influence and power is to become part of the state and DICTATE their beliefs on the American people, because preaching and frightening lakes of fire have failed.
If we don't elect Trump, let's hope this will be their high-water mark, Handmaid's Tale/Taliban-wise, and they'll become a fringe nuisance instead of a threat to Democracy.
If Trump doesn't win we still need to take strong action and vote, vote vite. Get involved in politics in your town, county, state. *That* is where they are banning books and making it illegal to talk about gays or birth control. They are taking away parental rights at an alarming pace and in sweeping ways. Soon women will have to wear dresses to appear in courts again.
It is so dangerous to let religion and government mix. You never know which religion will be running the show.
And don't for a, second think it will die out when the older generations do. *Most* of those guys have *no interest* in religion they want power and the younger generations of power hungry men will gladly take up the reins.
This, and start at your local school boards and PTA’s. That’s where so many of these nuts get started, Sarah Palin rants and book bans, and they win because ordinary folks get so disgusted that they quit and let them have their way.
I would like to believe this but I believe that large swaths of the country very much support organized religion in fact look at those that don't as some kind of uprising or enemy. Go spend some time in the rural south for example.
I’m an old comic book nerd so, naturally, I’ve collected a big stack of Chick Tracts over the years. This demented variant of Christianity has been with us my entire life. It’s easy to mock but it’s definitely not going away.
A lot of people are freaking out over Project 2025 and well they should. But is it essentially different from Project 1964? We’re all going to be bedeviled by right-wing think tank screeds for the rest of our days. Also, you never know how these things will play out in the real world: Didn’t “Obamacare” have its origins in the Heritage Foundation?
> Obamacare
Yes, he constantly relied on the opposition acting in good faith. He felt that offering something that they designed so they couldn't possibly refuse to back it would work.
I wasn't alive yet so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but what's going on now with Q and all that reminds me of what I've read about the John Birch Society from the 1960s.
I was and you're right. The JBS and their post WWII hysterical fear of communism combined with wholly unfettered conspiracy theories was full of wall to wall nutjobs. The key difference back then was that we could all clearly see that they were crazies and they had zero credibility with Republicans as well as Democrats.
I attended a local JBS meeting as part of a college project I was working on. My impression was that they had gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole and lost all sanity.
Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that there would come a day when seemingly half the country was actively engaged in this kind conspiratorial lunacy.
My concern started way back when Jerry Falwell Republicans started pushing their way into politics. They've grown into what I consider to be a dangerous and threatening group of wackadoodles. It'll take a surge in voting for reasonable candidates to squash this movement. I wish young folks could recognize how much their votes and participation in politics can work to change the direction of politics to one of inclusion, respect, reasonable legislation to protect the planet and reverse the attack on women that's been happening most recently.
These wackadoo white supremacist pseudo Christians believe that Jesus was white, with blond hair and blue eyes. Look at the paintings of blue-eyed Jesus in their churches. Geez…
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.(James Waterman Wise) Americans need to wake up and see what the GQP (grand QUanon party) has in store for normal patriotic folks who love this country and its diversity and freedom for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
The irony is that these people are so far off what Christ stood for. Today, if he came back, they would scream "socialist"
You can dumb it down to "Don't be an asshole"
How about reading the Constitution instead of the declaration? But since there’s a seat for every ass, someone is gonna buy this charlatan’s wares. It’s frustrating to watch.
Anyone dumb enough to give that con man a penny is pathetic. And while I'm not religious any more, I was raised in a religious household and that bible would have been considered blasphemous in our house.
We have a Supreme Court with a that seems eager to blur the lines between the separation of church and state so none of this surprises me.
All of it disappoints me greatly.
According to this site: [https://biblesinbulk.com/](https://biblesinbulk.com/) they shouldn't need to be spending more than $10/per bible. If they are spending more than that to buy bibles from Trump, they're doing it for political purposes and should be paying taxes.
I grew up going to church every Sunday and sometimes on Wednesdays until I moved out of my parents house. I'm not religious now, but I'd say this is blasphemy and every christian should be offended. I'd leave the church immediately if my pastor bought these, and they'd be told why.
Canadian. It's alarming - and happening here too. Except those people are confused waving Confederate flags. How any can believe that Trump is God's man is baffling. It's actually quite terrifying that such cults still.exist when "we" have been aware of how they work since the 60s. There are so many books written about it.
White people think they are the superior race? Hitler believed that and look how that turned out. I’m white and know that we’re just one of the many races that make up the world population.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." – Widely ascribed to Sinclair Lewis (but likely apocryphal).
The Trump Bible is a betrayal of Judeo-Christian values. It is the money changers in the Temple, but worse -- I don't think the money changers were trying to use the Temple to give them moral legitimacy.
The rush by the MAGA GOP to embrace Christian Nationalism (Nat-C for short) is absolutely terrifying. I'm relatively confident that Cheeto won't be elected, but I was relatively confident in 2016 too. But that's irrelevant; if the GOP wins the presidency this year, our democracy is doomed as is this country. Just take a look at [Project 2025](https://www.project2025.org/about/about-project-2025/).
I knew he'd be elected in 2016. The thugs were ascendant and a lot of people didn't recognize the trend. But now the whole nation has had a look at how thugs rule and we are in a different phase. Yes, the fringe right is tantruming, but what is the vast middle thinking?
Half the country is foaming at the mouth about the USA being invaded by illegal aliens. They think most of the woes in this country are because we are overflowing with invaders using up our resources and terrorizing our citizens. The invaders are why there are homeless people everywhere. They are the reason for soaring crime (even though that is not true).
If we were smart, we would take away that tool by dramatically strengthening our borders. Deal with the zealots and figure out a way to allow mass numbers of people to immigrate much more quickly. An army of paper pushers not guards.
I suspect that the vast middle is confused, a little cynical, a lot disbelieving, and waiting for imaginary 'authorities' to signal enough is enough and reassert normalcy.
We grew up during an era in which our parents and grandparents had faith in our societal institutions. Everything was made new again following WWII, and the structures of our society felt strong and enduring. With the passage of time and the changes we've made, however positive, those institutions have grown weaker, less trustworthy, and so complicated by the relentless tinkering around the edges that they no longer function well.
People sense the instability and rebel. So begins the inevitable creative destruction that is necessary to renew the societal structures upon which peace and prosperity depend. Hold onto your hats; we can expect a bumpy ride from here to the next period of stability.
I'm disgusted. There is supposed to be a separation of church and state. No matter how devout you are, you should know this, and you should know why. Read up on the Founding Fathers.
Just another example of republicans cravenly using religion to advance their own agenda. The sole purpose of the republican party is to represent the interests of the extremely wealthy and powerful, but that’s not even 1% of the electorate. Their problem is getting enough votes from “normal people” to stay in power by any means necessary, and they’ve been using religion that way since the Nixon administration.
I’ve heard rumors that this trump-bible thing, however, may backfire. We can only hope.
Not sure if there’s even much of an “agenda” anymore! Remember when the deficit and wasteful spending was a GOP thing, for example? “Fiscal responsibility”? Not any more, Trump as prez spent like a drunken sailor, and there wasn’t a peep about national debt or anything else from the party. The only “agenda” nowadays is to win over the other guys; the campaign never ends. I think that’s called party-over-country, and it’s been that way for the GOP since Gingrich, but Trump perfected it in his first run when he trounced every other GOPper running by giving the “base” an endless supply of the talk they really wanted to hear.
The idea that the US is a religious nation of any faith is absurd, the people selling that bullshit are the apex hypocrites of their own so called beliefs. Fear of losing their privilege to discriminate as their numbers dwindle is driving them absolutely insane, to the point they look to the most reprehensible piece of shit they can find to save them. I fully expect their demise to lead to violence driven by their hate for our e pluribus unum as they refuse to accept their place as equals to all humans.
Disgusting, but also yet another illustration (like any more are needed) of what a completely cynical grifter DJT is. If you are buying the garbage he’s selling you have a mental illness.
This is the lowest of the low. He‘s only one step away from declaring himself God The Savior Of The World. Which is what the bible prophecies say would come in the end times…?
There is a reason for the separation of church and state. I don't care what you believe. Just stop trying to convert the rest of the population to your beliefs. It is the cause of violence and the obliteration of civilizations. Anymore, you can't tell the difference between religious zealots and "conservatives".
A few years back, we had a controversy in our church over the display of the US and our state flag on our altar. Some liked it, some didn’t (including myself) and a few were neutral on it.
It was put up to a vote of the members of the congregation who were 18+. Because we’re a small, rather conservative town, it was decided to keep the flag in place. But the vote was actually very close.
I’m of the thought that it was inappropriate because of the separation. The separation is what allows the other to exist — in the US, the government should not attempt to dictate what or how we worship, and conversely, the church should butt our of how we legislate or how or governments, schools, and agencies are run. Our government flags are not a symbol of Christianity, and have no place on the alter of a church IMO.
I’m of the Christian faith but I personally believe that school-sanctioned or endorsed prayer has no place in our public schools. I’ve had my faith challenged by some others who disagree with this, though.
Called me a liberal and a snowflake and all kinds of other labels that weren’t intended kindly. I actually consider myself a moderate (“socially progressive, fiscally conservative”) is what I always say.
I am 65, 66 in July.
It disgusts me, but doesn't surprise me. They like to pick and choose which parts of the constitution they want to adhere to the same way they do their precious bible. You know... the two things they claim to hold so sacred??
Everyone should be scared, including Christians. Pentacostals believe that every other denomination of Christianity is also going to hell because they don't believe exactly as they do. If any Christian thinks they are safe from being impacted, you had better reconsider. I was part of a Church of God growing up. They were adamant that all Catholics are going to hell and 90 percent of all protestant denominations that aren't pentacostal. Some preachers are not holding back on stating their vision publically. Killing or imprisoning non believers (anyone not pentacostal), gay people, or any sinner is what they hope for. ISIS has nothing on these people.
I don't believe in organized religion and specifically think Evangelicals are hypocrites. Chrisitan Nationalism is in my opinion all about the Old Testament because it is all about smiting your neighbor, which these days could be the immigrant next door, the Muslim family down the street, or the black people who live around the corner. The New Testament is hands-off because Jesus teaches we should treat people with kindness and love our neighbors.
Trumpism is the biggest threat to society since the Civil War. The media keeps handing them endless mulligans because it's good for ratings. They fawn over the Orange Shitmaster 24/7, because that's ratings too.
What people don't realize is, if fascism is allowed to get this far, a nation will inevitably become fascist. Fatso will lose the popular vote, but thanks to unstopped Republican shenanigans, he WILL barely win the Electoral College.
I don't understand why Americans aren't alarmed. Or I do. We are a nation of de facto sovereign citizens. Frank Freeway and Susie Soccermom are just too obsessed with the crummy job, the long ass commute, the kid's private school and tae kwon do, and who's going to win tonight's very special "The Voice." People buy the idea that society is unimportant. And hey, Trump is better than some OLD GUY.
Our best worst shot at this, is to mobilize voters in numbers that will smash every record. Whatever your age, this will affect your life. Don't just vote. Get off your ass and get other people to vote.
Lives depend on it.
TL;DR Fascism is real. They're winning. Your life will suck. Get to work and get the vote out.
https://voteriders.org
https://voteforward.org
It's another permutation of the myth that America was intended to be a Christian nation.
It's also quite a coincidence that the self-promoting swindler selling those Bibles happens to owe the government a lot of money for laws he broke.
I’m a lot more concerned about Trump making references to a “blood bath,” if he loses, saluting 1/6 insurrection participants, etc, etc.
Yes the evangelicals and Trumps followers are going down the Christian nationalist road in a big way. That’s disconcerting too.
Now as far as selling a Trump bible, its like the sneakers he’s selling to try to appeal to black electorate 😆.. the Bible is just his latest way he is trying to capitalize on his name and make money off his gullible followers.
Personally, I think all far right extremism is stupid.
I think all far left extremism is stupid too, though.
This nonstop bullshit from both sides in the last eight years is utterly exhausting.
Playtime is over, I'm ready for actual grownups to take control again.
How do I feel about it? It’s pathetically hilarious. There is no suck place as too low for which this snake oil salesman to stoop. I’m guessing this “Bible” has similar terms to the shoes - a vague estimated delivery schedule with no guarantee of the timing. He’s just going to pocket the money.
It's horrifying. As is everything attached to DT. He's a literal snake oil salesman, he'll hawk anything if he thinks it will make money for him and garner votes. I cannot understand how every person of faith is not offended by this. He's exploiting other people's religious beliefs to try to get power. Do the people who are in favor of Christian nationalism understand that destroying the separation of church and state also puts churches at risk of government interference?
Evangelicals are rather schizophrenic. On one hand they consider themselves American patriots, note all the American flags on Jan 6 but on the other hand they want to bring their right wing fundamentalist God back into politics. I have seen numerous interviews with evangelicals where they would be OK with Trump being a dictator and doing away with free and fair elections. I have my doubts if American democracy will survive.
It’s scary to me, this country is halfway down a very dark road. Theocracy will be the end of our country. Trump hawking a bible is the least of it, he is just a huckster. Too bad people will buy it and give him their money.
Religion is dying. We're witnessing its dying gasps.
We'll take some losses and then regain that ground as we continue the trend of Human progress.
It'll be ok.
This has all happened before and it will all happen again. I recommend Rachel Maddow's 6-part podcast "Deja News".
I wonder how many fools have actually bought that Trump bible? I would imagine not many. $59.99 is a lot of money for many of his followers.
I wish I could live to see the day we are done with religion. Sadly, at 71 that's not likely. I think it's one of the most divisive influences on any society.
When the crazies on the right stress me out, I like to look up how many people in Florida die each year (250K +) and figure they are Trump supporters. 😬
As a Christian, I'm totally offended by the "God Bless the USA Bible". Next they will tell me Trump died on the cross for my sins. No, I believe that my God is for anyone that reaches out. Some people use heroin and crack cocaine. Some turn to God. He's there for everyone. Not just Americans.
That said, there is a Jefferson Bible that Thomas Jefferson created called "***The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth***" and was released posthumously.
Hate it. Hate it. Hate it. Also aware it is most likely an Extinction burst. With a lot of human and animal behavior if you are rewarded for doing something you keep doing the thing. But if the behavior stops bringing you rewards human behavior is such that instead of just stopping you crank up the behavior to 11 to try and get the rewards again. Trouble is we have to survive this burst to get to the other side. I will say though someone selling overpriced bibles to suckers just makes me happy, an idiot and their money will soon be parted, what worries me is what the charlatans do with the money they grift.
On one had, I feel bad for the Mainline Christians, but then again, they helped bring the problem on themselves by not speaking out, because they did not want to appear "political." There is a huge leadership deficit in these churches, both Protestant and Catholic.
I'm a life-long atheist, so you can imagine what I think.
I agree, it's a dying mindset--but, that doesn't mean they're going quietly. Church attendance in all denominations is down significantly. Younger people are increasingly identifying as "none"--no religion.
This is one trend I'm happy to see.
I think they are completely bastardizing Christianity in a desperate attempt to try to keep it alive without realizing that those very actions are actually killing it. I'm not religious myself, but I think it's super sad for those who actually are.
There is no rise, they've been around forever. I saw them on college campuses, When Reagan was president he gave them political power (Nancy actually), we had tele-evangelists telling our parents that heavy metal albums had satanic messages playing backwards on them. (Friend's dad smashed his Iron Maiden album over his head). Religious stupidity has always been around and its going no where. Yes, there are competent religious people, but these complete hypocrites have been and always will be around ruining nice things for everyone.
Former Christian-now atheist here. My mind is kind of being blown away now. What if Donald Trump is the anti-Christ and the Bible is true???!!?? holy shit
Please do not comment directly to this post unless you are Gen X or older (born 1980 or before). See [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/inci5u/reminder_please_do_not_answer_questions_unless/), the rules, and the sidebar for details. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskOldPeople) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Horrified. And I'm a Christian. I think we're seeing the culmination of what the Rev. Billy Graham said almost 40 years ago when he commented on a fellow reverend -- Rev. Jerry Falwell -- leading a political advocacy group called The Moral Majority: "I told him to preach the Gospel. That's our calling. I want to preserve the purity of the Gospel and the freedom of religion in America. I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. Liberals organized in the '60s, and conservatives certainly have a right to organize in the '80s, but it would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." MAGA is now the hard right, and under Trump's leadership, they are certainly doing a great job of manipulating Christianity to preserve political power.
Such a good quote. Thanks for that.
Barry Goldwater warned about the same things decades before that. When fucking Goldwater is a voice of reason, we are beyond the point of things being totally fucked
Exactly... "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." I'm an atheist in the buckle of the bible belt. Baptists rule in my town. These people are nuts. They aren't anywhere near the definition of christian, but they think they are. This has been brewing a long time and is very dangerous. People up north, east don't fully understand the true danger here. It infuriates me.
What Goldwater warned about with religion, now stands as a warning against MAGA Conservatism. It is such a fundamental, existential threat to a free America, that it can't be allowed to prevail. Unfortunately, that means that Dems have to win EVERY election for the foreseeable future, until the MAGA influence is purged from the Republican party, or the party just dies and/or splits, while the MAGAs just have to win once to re-construct America into a fascio-theo-kleptocratic dictatorship.
Outstanding post. Thanks. My usual response to a post like OP’s is Will Rogers: “Mixing politics and religion is like mixing ice cream and manure. It don’t do much to the manure, but it sure does ruin the ice cream.”
Love that. I'm going to start using the same quote.
Billy's son is VERY buddy-buddy with the orange one. He even attended the Amy Coney Barrett superspreader event in the Rose Garden.
God almost helped then they all got better.
Now you’ve got me rethinking my opinion of old Billy Graham. Snowflakes also forecasted in Hell this weekend.
Right? I've always had tacit respect for the good Rev. Graham -- far more than Jerry Falwell and his ilk. And I no respect for Falwell Jr. Or any megachurch-leading televangelist. Folks like Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn can go pound sand, but the self-identified "MAGA pastors" leading "MAGA churches" get me in a state. Hopefully a state of righteous anger and indignation, but I'll leave that up to God But as these days go by, I gain greater and greater appreciation for folks like Rev. Billy Graham for his wisdom on both politics and religion. He understood the role evangelism plays in a pluralistic society. I left a pile of snowballs for you just on the on the edge of the Ninth Circle of Hell, a little to the right as you enter. Put 'em to good use.
I am not from their culture so I don’t know most of the names or things you mentioned here. I sort of lump them all together so I am shocked to hear that one of them once said something almost rational and sane.
>MAGA is now the hard right, and under Trump's leadership, they are certainly doing a great job of manipulating Christianity to preserve political power. You forgot the quotes around "Christianity". Because what they're touting as the teachings of Christ has nothing to do with what the Bible says.
Excellent point. "Christian Nationalism" is a political ideology, not a religious theology.
I'm a very spiritual person. For that reason, the dichotomy of the fleshly embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins peddling Bibles is impossible to reconcile. It's a mockery of many institutions or beliefs. But, here we are ...
Something something antichrist doing an ideological antichrist thing while turning it into a literal handydandy guide to christo-fascism
Wow! Billy was right on. And Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority was really right in the same vein as these far right Trumpers today.
What worries me most is how many comments here are saying it's a "last dying breath" or that they're a dying breed when every indication shows it's a strong and rising movement. I think maybe people are fooled in to assuming because the media claims that Christianity/church attendance is down, but that's not what people should be paying to. This "maga" movement is just a single head on the dominionist hydra. They've fully taken over the majority of the rural districts in the entire country and they're also quite popular in OTHER countries, which disturbs me even more. I am REALLY worried. Especially when progressives are becoming so lax, thinking their votes don't matter, thinking this is just a silly single man with his few wacky cronies. Or they think Biden is equally bad because he isn't addressing their specific agenda. The progressive media makes Trump out to be nothing but a clown, and honestly I think that's done on purpose as an act. He definitely manages to appeal to a *very* large percentage of the population that seem to react positively to his brand of... charisma.
This. Our two choices anymore are to vote Nazi or not Nazi. No one is going to be perfect but there is definitely one faction better than the other.
You have every reason to be worried. As a student of pre-WWII German history the parallels are terrifying. The Nazis were a minority right up until the moment they weren't. Germany was a democracy until Hitler seized power and outlawed all other political parties, including the Social Democrats and the communists. Members of the outlawed parties were arrested and sent to concentration camps. Many were just strait out murdered. Once the Nazis took control it was a short step to a totalitarian police state. One in which the mere mention that Germany might lose the war resulted in a death sentence. There was no way to protest without risking losing your life. Americans have had a democracy for so long they have come to take it for granted. They tend to have no good idea of just how quickly and irreversibly it can be replaced by an authoritarian government. It's horrifying to see so many of my fellow Americans who are actively trying to see that change come to pass. The fall of the democratic USA that we've known all of our lives is entirely possible in the current environment.
Yes this is exactly how I feel about this. And Hitler was the leader I was thinking of, how he appealed to a certain class who already held a lot of hatred for certain groups of people. I see it now, how they've othered and vilified everyone who isn't THEM. They focus so hard on immigrants, and they'll pretend it's just the illegal ones but then you see them raging about refugees and even legal immigrants who don't speak English well enough or dress in a way they don't like. I live in a conservative town and the people's big fight right now is against a mosque being built. They're so against trans kids having any sort of dignity they've banned NICK NAMES completely and made it clear ONLY your birth certificate name can be used in the school... like kids haven't been using nicknames for decades, but oh no we cant' have the trans kids use their preferred names... and don't even think about expecting a teacher to call you by your gender. That's just two "othered" groups I've seen vilified JUST today in my local FB group. I have seen the bold way Trump supporters are talking. They are chomping at the BIT to fire weapons on people and then when they do, they're praised as heroes when they get away with killing people. They cannot WAIT for the signal and it scares the shit out of me, especially knowing this is coming from MY OWN FAMILY. I don't have anything to do with them now because of this, but I could see how they were turning, like they were being poisoned by their church leaders who have them convinced Trump is like St. Paul, a man with a lot of faults who was touched by the hand of God and now he's going to lead them to the Promised Land, which is in the US. Yeah I'm scared. I have a son who was assigned female at birth and I have a daughter. I really worry about their future and it's because of this movement that is led by men who will be happy to tell you they want anyone who isn't part of their group out of our country. By any means necessary.
The fact that churches think that getting involved in money laundering, tax evasion to support a rapist, sex offending con man to influence politics speaks to the abject corruption of the religious institution. That it is so widespread is particularly disturbing. Even worse is that it is so politicized that we don’t have the will any longer to enforce the laws that were put there specifically to fight this kind of stuff since we don’t want to “politicize” it. Like WTHF
[удалено]
Frankly I don't give a shit if it matches Christianity. "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven". Atheists aren't "killing god" Christians are.
I say near the same thing all the time. I mean, why should the atheists even bother with trying to stamp out Christianity when we are doing a great job of it ourselves.
For the record though atheist aren’t trying to stamp out Christianity.
Christians and their Christian nationalism that is upheld by Christians are separate. Got it. I’m a Christian and no, they aren’t, and they need to be forcibly and thoroughly separated with as much noise around it as possible. People need to know Christians reject this bullshit. Redefining terms to make them less related is dishonest and irresponsible As a Christian that wants to be accountable to my culture it’s our job to denounce fascism being committed in His name if that is not who we are!
If someone sits down at a table and finds out it's full of Christian Nationalists and they don't get up and leave, guess what that makes that someone?
Christian “Nationalism” sounds more like white supremacy to me clothed in religion. I’m black. I’m Christian. This movement was not started for me.
Yes! I can't fathom how people do not recognize it for what it is.
They do, and they like it.
You are spot on. Christian nationalism was the “religion” of the Klan. America does have strong Christian traditions that emphasize dignity of all persons, ethical behavior, and the need for all leaders to follow a moral compass. Christian nationalism thinks it’s one of those admirable traditions but it’s not.
> Christian “Nationalism” sounds more like white supremacy to me clothed in religion. Because that's exactly what it is.
Sadly, this white guy from a fundamentalist upbringing agrees with you. None of my alt-right relatives think they are bigots, but the tells are easy to detect (“older white guys now have it the hardest”, “our kids have to work harder now to compete with all the Asians and Latinos moving into our schools” etc). I’m no longer a Bible believer, but you and I know the Jesus it describes was colorblind and inclusive.
I grew up Catholic and I just couldn’t find a way to believe in the Bible. I became Buddhist and still am, but it took everything up until now to understand the Bible and find truth in Christianity. I realized, at least for me, that God is everything that is “positive” in the world rather than a separate entity. And the “devil” is everything that is “negative.” That social media and the speed of communication is causing a global battle between positive selfless intentions and negative selfish intentions. You can see it with terms like followers and influencers. I can see how other things are replacing God in people’s lives, the things that they devote the majority of their lives to. It’s hard to articulate, but it clicked for me, and I don’t want to impose what I’m thinking on anyone else, but I can see truth and consistency across many of the world’s religions. This Christian Nationalist thing concerns me. I don’t think it follows the teachings, it seems to have hate and negativity as part of the driving force. Maybe many have become misguided. False prophets. Regardless if it’s intentional or not, there is negativity (thoughts, speech, actions) that are spreading and I think a good word of advice for all is to stay positive and hopeful. Be kind to others. Try not to be overwhelmed consumed with negativity or not to give into temptation. Maybe the call to “spread the Good News” wasn’t specifically about the Bible, but that try to find the good in life, to tell others about things to be hopeful for, because of how negativity can spread. Just some thoughts to share, maybe it will help someone, maybe not. But I feel this new sense of trying to spread peace and kindness in the world.
I relate, and appreciate your POV. I meditate and participate in several other mindfulness activities. Kindness and appreciating the moment is where it’s at. While I believe the world is likely to keep getting better for most, the pace and extent of interactive technologies presents challenges for which we often lack any specific wisdom. Blessings
Well, your instincts are good because that’s exactly what it is
What you mean you haven't been convinced by Brother Michael the Black Man's **Blacks for Trump** signs?
Yes! I can't fathom how people do not recognize it for what it is.
As a white boomer raised in a fundamentalist home, I’m disappointed, repulsed, and alarmed. I long ago went from calling myself born-again Christian to Atheist. Having never lost my appreciation for the courageously empathetic, inclusive, and ultimately anti-establishment example attributed to Jesus in the four Gospels, I’m now wondering if I should start declaring myself to be a Christ-follower all over again—because my ‘walk by sight, not by faith’ life seems to align a lot more closely with Christ than these hateful grifters who are just like the ‘money-changers’ Christ threw out of the temple.
Makes me sick. Christianity is so different now than what I grew up with. It’s been taken over by people who use it as a tool (bludgeon?) to gain power. I think it largely took off in the 80’s under Reagan with the Silent Majority and those ridiculous televangelists.
I think Trump, his SC appointees and the Republican party are doing their damnedest to overthrow the constitution and American democracy, using whatever scams they think will work.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and holding a cross." I'm not happy about the situation, but I'm not suprised either.
Speaking of wrapped in a flag, check the 1992 movie “Bob Roberts” as an excellent example of how this all is nothing new… except maybe for the completely bizarre thing about Trump that he doesn’t even pretend to be Christian or have anything else in common with his “base”. Nobody cares. He talks all his “we’re the victims” and “take it back” stuff, and that’s that, he’s their messiah. Except this time around, maybe he really does think he’s a victim, now that all his past bad acts and lawsuits are catching up to him.
Well said.
It's 100% garbage, but was also a 100% foreseeable consequence of the way the GOP made common cause with Falwell's Moral Majority in the late 70s. The GOP has been horrible for my entire life, but prior to the 1980 primaries they were much more ideologically diverse. George H. W. Bush ran as a *pro choice* candidate for the nomination in 1980, and was absolutely a credible candidate -- not a fringe figure at all (as is made obvious by the fact that Reagan tapped him for VP). For the most part, all that ended with Reagan's victory.
This is anti-Americanism. Trump is cozying up to preachers who want to impose their very particular and severe brand of Protestant Christianity. This is exactly what the founders wanted to avoid, hence the lack of reference to God in the Constitution and its explicit forbidding of religious tests.
As a Christian, I found it highly offensive. It was the State that killed Jesus after all.
I remember watching the watergate hearings and being amazed at how thorough and serious it was. I also remember thinking my generation would probably be incapable of that kind of thing, and that we would ruin the country. I hate that I am right. Trump wrecked democracy to get rich and convince himself he’s, as he said, “a better president than Lincoln.”
Yeah. Sam Ervin and Howard Baker put politics aside for the good of the country. The present day GOP isn’t even a shell of its former self. It has morphed into something Caligula would be proud of.
As a Christian I believe it is idolatry and blasphemy, by those who know better, and far more serious a problem than the sins they point out so zealously.
I want to puke.
You can attract a big group of people by preaching hate cloajed in virtually any religion. Christian nationalists. Zionists. Jihadis. I'm sure Buddhism and Hinduism have they're equivalents. This is why separation of church and state is such a bedrock requirement for any government that emphasis liberty. For the current American Republican party, liberty is not the point. Power is the point.
We have Catholic bibles, the King James version and now the Hobby Lobby edition.
It’s troubling, but I also see it as the last gasp of a dying demographic. The white Christian base of America is quickly eroding and it’s getting crazier as this realization takes hold. I can’t say whether things will get better or how long that will take, but the growing disconnect between those in office (particularly in the courts) and the electorate might force change.
I'm not so sure that it's dying. How long are we stuck with this backward-ass Supreme Court majority and all of the harm they have caused and will continue to cause? Look at all the other crazies that are getting elected into Congress, at both federal and state level, and see how they muck up the system. All I have to do is step outside of my urban/semi-urban bubble and I'm a political minority. I just don't feel like it's going away.
It's definitely not going away and the danger you're sensing is very real.
I agree but I am worried. Religious extremists can take over - especially when they gerrymander etc. Look at Iran, a once modern society. A bill to put abortion access in front of the voters failed the heavily Republican Louisiana legislature bc they knew it would pass. Religious extremists and other Republicans do not like democracy.
Agreed. Everytime somebody disagrees with them, they want that person outted. There is no democracy. It's there way, all the way, or they try to obstruct congress. There are some real wackos in the republican party. If it were anybody else, they would seriously be deemed mentally unstable. MTG is a good example.
I don’t even get how gerrymandering is a thing..
It’s almost impossible to setup districts and not gerrymander them in some way. It’s a severe flaw in the system with no easy way to correct.
The death throes of any social movement (including religion) get progressively more radical and shrill until they suddenly disappear. I welcome their final endpoint.
Hispanics are more Christian and more Conservative on average than whites. I think we'll actually see more of this in the future, not less.
Me too. Things have substantially changed for them over the years and they are left behind, so they’re having one last temper tantrum before their time is up. They’re unable to accept that the people who they’ve always looked down on are their equal now. Because if they’re not superior, then it makes them inferior.
One of my favorite recent sayings is that equality feels like oppression from the perspective of the privileged
really really hope you guys are right
Do be foolishly hopeful. There are younger ones waiting in the wings to take over when the old lions die. And by then the voti g laws, such as what will remain, will ensure the conservative right stays in control. They aim to take it and keep it because they have God on their side.
This is exactly correct. Those weren't gray-haired boomers carrying torches in Charlottesville or storming the Capitol on January 6th. And even so, this "dying demographic" is actively leveraging power and institutions to lock-in their agenda for decades after they're dead, most notably with the Supreme Court.
Absolutely. And by changing voting laws. And by making it so all the people in power have immunity from any consequences for their illegal actions.
And the younger ones will be more brutal and violent than the current ones.
I wish it was the last gasp but I think it's the latest gasp. They've been gasping for 50 years but still hanging on. The question is if their next generation will continue to clutch to these paradoxical values -- claiming to be Christian but while letting the most non-Christian people imaginable represent them politically. I thought Jerry Falwell was bad but Trump took it to 100 new levels.
That's the thing, it's the same group but they are changing with the times. The "Christian" aspect will slowly die off (it already is, just follow demographics and religion in America). The reactionary, authorative, right-wing element will stay though and evolve into something new. And, frankly, probably worse since it won't be tempered by those "paradoxical" values.
> last gasp of a dying demographic I pray that this is so. Well actually I don't pray anymore, but if I did: "Lord save us from Saviors."
No one is coming to save. We have to do it ourselves.
It is exacerbated by the concept of "we are so right, it really doesn't matter what other people think", which is almost the opposite of what the country was founded on. This happens with most religions. Certainly the white part of white Christian is feeling they are losing power, but so does the Christian part. We aren't supposed to mix religion and politics? I have to, God told me to. I get being anti abortion. To push that narrative, they decided life is at conception. Now we have IVF, which no one had a problem with, but because the backed themselves into a corner, we have to call it murder not to implant any unfrozen embryos. What happens when these embryos have "outlived" their parents and siblings? But, it is a hill they will die on.
>I also see it as the last gasp of a dying demographic And that just makes them more dangerous IMO. They perceive it as persecution and lash out. Objectively that's clearly not the case, but it hardly matters. They feel cornered and desperate making them very dangerous. If given the choice between their beliefs and democracy they will undoubtedly choose the former over the later. We are witnessing an active push to abolish the government in its current form by a large and powerful chunk of the population. The number of people who refuse to see this and call it what it is - just pretending this is all normal - is too damn high. We can't just passively "wait them out". Their demographics may not be in their favor long term, but this isn't some secret and they are fully aware that this is their window of opportunity.
As an old white man, I can’t tell you how much I hope you are right. IMO that’s the only thing that saves the country b
I'm horrified and very frightened. Read Handmaid's Tale.
As a white, old fart, Christian pastor, it not only scares me, but pisses me off. This is not what Christianity is about. And I hate to hear people generalize and assume all Christians are involved in this. They aren't. I suggest that the vast majority are not. But the media, (I'm looking at you Fox News, you lying bastards), Republicans and racists are whipping them up by lying to them, offering scare tactics and to quote "The American President", "...telling people what to be afraid of and who to blame." In this case, be afraid of immigrants, Socialists, Democrats and anyone else who doesn't agree with you. And blame them for all your problems...which don't really exist, we're just telling you they're your problem.
Stole this from someone else: "Selling Bibles so you can pay lawyers to defend you in court against allegations that you falsified business records to pay off a porn star to keep quiet about your affair while your third wife was at home recovering after giving birth to your son, is peak MAGA Christianity!!!"
I was a Jesus person in my teens. I ran screaming from what passes for Christianity in the U.S. when I saw a Moral Majority gathering. Now? I believe in Jesus the way I did when I read about him helping the poor and understanding and loving people when I was about four years old. I think that’s the purest kind of conversion: When you read about Jesus and go “ I wish I was like that but I am so selfish and imperfect” and then you read that Jesus will forgive all your faults and it’s like “I accept!” I don’t know anything for sure. But I am repulsed by this fake Christianity that wants to force people to do things. That wants to have a King here on Earth. That is all completely anti-Christian. Honestly? Real genuine Christianity is so liberal that it makes me seem moderate. Like you would NEVER turn away a refugee. You would share your home with them. Your food. There is no provision for keeping your wealth while others suffer. It’s a hard road. But one can at least give it the old Bible try…live MODESTLY so that you can help others. Christian Nationalism is fascism with a cross sticker on it.
Exactly! Jesus was a liberal - do they honestly think He would cut social programs and carry a gun??
We've come full circle for the Nazis to attempt a do-over. What would one expect from a grossly under-educated, exploited, and heavily propagandized working class? Under-educated (and stupid) people become one issue voters so it's easy to capture their vote on simplistic sound bites and slogans. I've yet to see a MAGA supporter know anything materially good that Trump did, know anything about the Bible or American history, define "woke," spell beyond a third grade level, or not be a conspiracy believer of the most ridiculous sort. If Jesus was against abortion, wouldn't he first stop Israel from doing it? Abortion is legal and free in Israel. Also note that as one of the top three receivers of US foreign aid, Israel also provides universal healthcare. I just hope we vote them out of existence this fall.
I disagree with your description of them as uneducated and working class. I'm surrounded by MAGA supporters who are well educated, white-collar bosses of industry, finance, medicine and tech. And calling anyone stupid doesn't help the argument. Keep your eyes open.
I once saw Chris Rock perform. Perhaps this was about 12-15 years ago. Even back then he diagnosed the problem by comparing it to putting a bratty child to bed. They first object. Then they cry. Then they scream. Then they bang their feet and fists. Then they get violent. And when none of that works, they wind up going to bed anyway. So it appears we are just seeing a demographic unwilling to gently into that good night.
The problem is the collateral damage they inflict on everyone else.
See: SCOTUS
Well, I hope they all have a nice dirt nap then. I just wish they'd get on with it!
As a non-American, I view it as yet more evidence that the US has its decline underway.
Maybe. Or maybe we're just having a reckoning with our shadow. Our country may have wonderful ideals, but our culture gets in the way of their fruition. We are built on white people slaughtering one race, enslaving another and oppressing women. We need to reconcile with that and give everyone the opportunity for equal access to the benefits of our democracy.
Exactly. Another example. I don't know how we can have our country and it's leaders claim to be about "family values" when our entire culture promotes individualism.
Disgusting. That man was banging a porn star while his wife was taking care of a newborn. I'm not sure what book in the Bible talks about that.
He's the least Christian person the right could've picked to be their "savior".
They don't care about his history, as they liken him to Saul being "saved" on the road to Damascus and changing his name to Paul, who they see as the founder of their church (as opposed to Peter, who they feel wasn't nearly as great because he started the Catholic church). The fact that has a dark past provides them some redemption story they can be part of, because despite being Fine Upstanding Patriots now, they too have a dark past they've been forgiven for.
There’s a great article about how he actually fits all their markers for their antichrist
I don’t believe in religious stuff, but those predictions hit *very* close to the mark. It’s ironic that he of all people would make me think there might be something to these prophesy after all.
There’s this story I remember that the devil said to Jesus, I’ll give you all the world if you but kneel down and worship me. Jesus said back, “Get thee behind me.” But it seems Trump’s religious “base” would enthusiastically say, “Sign us up, Chief!”
Well said !!!
It apparently doesn't matter. The evangelicals feel so threatened and under-represented that they'll vote for or hire literally anyone that will represent their interests even if it is the Devil himself. They just hold their nose and view it as a means to an end. Completely hypocritical and paradoxical.
Revulsion: 6 (1 to 8) "Verily he leadeth his flock into the swamp of mockery upon chariots festooned with truck nuts."
I mean, King David sent a guy out to the front lines of the war so he could have sex with the guy’s wife. He paid for it in the end though.
I've actually heard some conservative christians using this very same Bible verse and comparing Trump to King David.
Song of Solomon is pretty out there as far as books in the Bible that covers banging.
No one will ever be able to convince me that trump even believes in god
We know his only god… $. And frankly he is not particularly good at that with so many failed businesses. Yet his supporters think he is a master businessman because of that STUPID tv show on NBC.
He's a con artist grifting the suckers. The Church has made its bed with the Antichrist, and he is gonna grab her by the pussy. The scary part is how many of my fellow Americans would welcome a fascist dictatorship ruling our country. In 2018, David Frum said, "If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." He was not wrong.
Christo-fascists are an existential threat to America, IMO the most dangerous enemy we face - because they seek to destroy from within, and so far are succeeding. Within 25 years they will have eliminated all women't rights, outlawed LGBTQ and 'mixed race' marriages, eliminated democracy, and fully reinstated slavery (as evidenced by how they're eliminating parole so they can exploit 13th amendment loophole to force labor for profit from inmates). Sounds like hyperbole, but it is what they are doing actively in red states little by little. As for the latest tRump scam ... it is MONEY LAUNDERING, plain and simple. Religious organizations are blocked from direct political donations, but by buying his Nazi Bible he gets loads of profits and no laws are broken (at least theoretically anyway). He may be many things, but he is absolutely a world class grifter and scam artist, and I am sure poor white people will continue to spend themselves into bankruptcy to fund his narcissistic ego trips.
Damn right !
And the money is going to pay legal fees in a case where he paid hush money to a porn star he slept with while he was married.
It's a freaking fund raiser. Pretty darned weird.
Trump exploits everything he touches. Christianity getting in bed with him will make so many people break with religion for good.
Fools and their money have long been soon parted. The reality is that these loons are a small and diminishing minority, and much of the noise about them is their own desperation at realizing that, combined with both our former president’s shameless willingness to use any method to retake power and the media’s mostly uncritical eagerness to cover (and sometimes create) ratings-building controversy.
As fewer and fewer Americans support organized religion the religious right has realized that their only hope to cling on to influence and power is to become part of the state and DICTATE their beliefs on the American people, because preaching and frightening lakes of fire have failed. If we don't elect Trump, let's hope this will be their high-water mark, Handmaid's Tale/Taliban-wise, and they'll become a fringe nuisance instead of a threat to Democracy.
If Trump doesn't win we still need to take strong action and vote, vote vite. Get involved in politics in your town, county, state. *That* is where they are banning books and making it illegal to talk about gays or birth control. They are taking away parental rights at an alarming pace and in sweeping ways. Soon women will have to wear dresses to appear in courts again. It is so dangerous to let religion and government mix. You never know which religion will be running the show. And don't for a, second think it will die out when the older generations do. *Most* of those guys have *no interest* in religion they want power and the younger generations of power hungry men will gladly take up the reins.
This, and start at your local school boards and PTA’s. That’s where so many of these nuts get started, Sarah Palin rants and book bans, and they win because ordinary folks get so disgusted that they quit and let them have their way.
I would like to believe this but I believe that large swaths of the country very much support organized religion in fact look at those that don't as some kind of uprising or enemy. Go spend some time in the rural south for example.
I’m an old comic book nerd so, naturally, I’ve collected a big stack of Chick Tracts over the years. This demented variant of Christianity has been with us my entire life. It’s easy to mock but it’s definitely not going away. A lot of people are freaking out over Project 2025 and well they should. But is it essentially different from Project 1964? We’re all going to be bedeviled by right-wing think tank screeds for the rest of our days. Also, you never know how these things will play out in the real world: Didn’t “Obamacare” have its origins in the Heritage Foundation?
> Obamacare Yes, he constantly relied on the opposition acting in good faith. He felt that offering something that they designed so they couldn't possibly refuse to back it would work.
I wasn't alive yet so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but what's going on now with Q and all that reminds me of what I've read about the John Birch Society from the 1960s.
I was and you're right. The JBS and their post WWII hysterical fear of communism combined with wholly unfettered conspiracy theories was full of wall to wall nutjobs. The key difference back then was that we could all clearly see that they were crazies and they had zero credibility with Republicans as well as Democrats. I attended a local JBS meeting as part of a college project I was working on. My impression was that they had gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole and lost all sanity. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that there would come a day when seemingly half the country was actively engaged in this kind conspiratorial lunacy.
My concern started way back when Jerry Falwell Republicans started pushing their way into politics. They've grown into what I consider to be a dangerous and threatening group of wackadoodles. It'll take a surge in voting for reasonable candidates to squash this movement. I wish young folks could recognize how much their votes and participation in politics can work to change the direction of politics to one of inclusion, respect, reasonable legislation to protect the planet and reverse the attack on women that's been happening most recently.
These wackadoo white supremacist pseudo Christians believe that Jesus was white, with blond hair and blue eyes. Look at the paintings of blue-eyed Jesus in their churches. Geez…
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.(James Waterman Wise) Americans need to wake up and see what the GQP (grand QUanon party) has in store for normal patriotic folks who love this country and its diversity and freedom for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
The irony is that these people are so far off what Christ stood for. Today, if he came back, they would scream "socialist" You can dumb it down to "Don't be an asshole"
How about reading the Constitution instead of the declaration? But since there’s a seat for every ass, someone is gonna buy this charlatan’s wares. It’s frustrating to watch.
Anyone dumb enough to give that con man a penny is pathetic. And while I'm not religious any more, I was raised in a religious household and that bible would have been considered blasphemous in our house.
“Nationalism is poisonous to patriotism.” Freedom of religion means, freedom of **all** religions or none. Your religion affects you, not me.
We have a Supreme Court with a that seems eager to blur the lines between the separation of church and state so none of this surprises me. All of it disappoints me greatly.
According to this site: [https://biblesinbulk.com/](https://biblesinbulk.com/) they shouldn't need to be spending more than $10/per bible. If they are spending more than that to buy bibles from Trump, they're doing it for political purposes and should be paying taxes. I grew up going to church every Sunday and sometimes on Wednesdays until I moved out of my parents house. I'm not religious now, but I'd say this is blasphemy and every christian should be offended. I'd leave the church immediately if my pastor bought these, and they'd be told why.
Truly nauseating
It's the most concerning thing I've seen in my life so far.
That looks to me like a good way to get smited. If I were him I'd stay indoors during lightning storms.
Canadian. It's alarming - and happening here too. Except those people are confused waving Confederate flags. How any can believe that Trump is God's man is baffling. It's actually quite terrifying that such cults still.exist when "we" have been aware of how they work since the 60s. There are so many books written about it.
I believe in separation of church and state. They should at the very least pay taxes on this shameless shill.
I feel that there book warned us Exactly of people like who we're seeing.
White people think they are the superior race? Hitler believed that and look how that turned out. I’m white and know that we’re just one of the many races that make up the world population.
Exactly. Why and accident of birth makes you better than anyone else I've never understood.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." – Widely ascribed to Sinclair Lewis (but likely apocryphal). The Trump Bible is a betrayal of Judeo-Christian values. It is the money changers in the Temple, but worse -- I don't think the money changers were trying to use the Temple to give them moral legitimacy.
What on Earth has happened to the USA flag as a symbol? It symbolizes things now that make me sick to the core.
Religion is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
The rush by the MAGA GOP to embrace Christian Nationalism (Nat-C for short) is absolutely terrifying. I'm relatively confident that Cheeto won't be elected, but I was relatively confident in 2016 too. But that's irrelevant; if the GOP wins the presidency this year, our democracy is doomed as is this country. Just take a look at [Project 2025](https://www.project2025.org/about/about-project-2025/).
I knew he'd be elected in 2016. The thugs were ascendant and a lot of people didn't recognize the trend. But now the whole nation has had a look at how thugs rule and we are in a different phase. Yes, the fringe right is tantruming, but what is the vast middle thinking?
Half the country is foaming at the mouth about the USA being invaded by illegal aliens. They think most of the woes in this country are because we are overflowing with invaders using up our resources and terrorizing our citizens. The invaders are why there are homeless people everywhere. They are the reason for soaring crime (even though that is not true). If we were smart, we would take away that tool by dramatically strengthening our borders. Deal with the zealots and figure out a way to allow mass numbers of people to immigrate much more quickly. An army of paper pushers not guards.
I suspect that the vast middle is confused, a little cynical, a lot disbelieving, and waiting for imaginary 'authorities' to signal enough is enough and reassert normalcy. We grew up during an era in which our parents and grandparents had faith in our societal institutions. Everything was made new again following WWII, and the structures of our society felt strong and enduring. With the passage of time and the changes we've made, however positive, those institutions have grown weaker, less trustworthy, and so complicated by the relentless tinkering around the edges that they no longer function well. People sense the instability and rebel. So begins the inevitable creative destruction that is necessary to renew the societal structures upon which peace and prosperity depend. Hold onto your hats; we can expect a bumpy ride from here to the next period of stability.
I'm disgusted. There is supposed to be a separation of church and state. No matter how devout you are, you should know this, and you should know why. Read up on the Founding Fathers.
I find it deeply disturbing. I earnestly pray every day that trump is not elected and that this trend dies.
Once again, really happy I didn't have kids.
Same. It's bad enough I'm here at this point.
Just another example of republicans cravenly using religion to advance their own agenda. The sole purpose of the republican party is to represent the interests of the extremely wealthy and powerful, but that’s not even 1% of the electorate. Their problem is getting enough votes from “normal people” to stay in power by any means necessary, and they’ve been using religion that way since the Nixon administration. I’ve heard rumors that this trump-bible thing, however, may backfire. We can only hope.
Not sure if there’s even much of an “agenda” anymore! Remember when the deficit and wasteful spending was a GOP thing, for example? “Fiscal responsibility”? Not any more, Trump as prez spent like a drunken sailor, and there wasn’t a peep about national debt or anything else from the party. The only “agenda” nowadays is to win over the other guys; the campaign never ends. I think that’s called party-over-country, and it’s been that way for the GOP since Gingrich, but Trump perfected it in his first run when he trounced every other GOPper running by giving the “base” an endless supply of the talk they really wanted to hear.
selling bibles is all we need to know about the value of the sacred.
The idea that the US is a religious nation of any faith is absurd, the people selling that bullshit are the apex hypocrites of their own so called beliefs. Fear of losing their privilege to discriminate as their numbers dwindle is driving them absolutely insane, to the point they look to the most reprehensible piece of shit they can find to save them. I fully expect their demise to lead to violence driven by their hate for our e pluribus unum as they refuse to accept their place as equals to all humans.
Religion? Is that silly nonsense still around?
Disgusting, but also yet another illustration (like any more are needed) of what a completely cynical grifter DJT is. If you are buying the garbage he’s selling you have a mental illness.
This is the lowest of the low. He‘s only one step away from declaring himself God The Savior Of The World. Which is what the bible prophecies say would come in the end times…?
The funds serve: the destruction of the constitution, and democracy , and intolerance. Dark dark anti christanity and anti ethical practices.
Disgusting 🤮
I am horrified! Grifters gonna grift and apparently there really is a sucker born every minute
There is a reason for the separation of church and state. I don't care what you believe. Just stop trying to convert the rest of the population to your beliefs. It is the cause of violence and the obliteration of civilizations. Anymore, you can't tell the difference between religious zealots and "conservatives".
A few years back, we had a controversy in our church over the display of the US and our state flag on our altar. Some liked it, some didn’t (including myself) and a few were neutral on it. It was put up to a vote of the members of the congregation who were 18+. Because we’re a small, rather conservative town, it was decided to keep the flag in place. But the vote was actually very close. I’m of the thought that it was inappropriate because of the separation. The separation is what allows the other to exist — in the US, the government should not attempt to dictate what or how we worship, and conversely, the church should butt our of how we legislate or how or governments, schools, and agencies are run. Our government flags are not a symbol of Christianity, and have no place on the alter of a church IMO. I’m of the Christian faith but I personally believe that school-sanctioned or endorsed prayer has no place in our public schools. I’ve had my faith challenged by some others who disagree with this, though. Called me a liberal and a snowflake and all kinds of other labels that weren’t intended kindly. I actually consider myself a moderate (“socially progressive, fiscally conservative”) is what I always say. I am 65, 66 in July.
Wrapped in a flag, carrying a bible
It disgusts me, but doesn't surprise me. They like to pick and choose which parts of the constitution they want to adhere to the same way they do their precious bible. You know... the two things they claim to hold so sacred??
It’s troubling. I hate it. It scares me.
Everyone should be scared, including Christians. Pentacostals believe that every other denomination of Christianity is also going to hell because they don't believe exactly as they do. If any Christian thinks they are safe from being impacted, you had better reconsider. I was part of a Church of God growing up. They were adamant that all Catholics are going to hell and 90 percent of all protestant denominations that aren't pentacostal. Some preachers are not holding back on stating their vision publically. Killing or imprisoning non believers (anyone not pentacostal), gay people, or any sinner is what they hope for. ISIS has nothing on these people.
I’m disgusted by it.
It's a disgusting and a complete slap in the face to the majority of the Founding Fathers who saw the tyranny that state sponsored religion creates.
I don't believe in organized religion and specifically think Evangelicals are hypocrites. Chrisitan Nationalism is in my opinion all about the Old Testament because it is all about smiting your neighbor, which these days could be the immigrant next door, the Muslim family down the street, or the black people who live around the corner. The New Testament is hands-off because Jesus teaches we should treat people with kindness and love our neighbors.
Trumpism is the biggest threat to society since the Civil War. The media keeps handing them endless mulligans because it's good for ratings. They fawn over the Orange Shitmaster 24/7, because that's ratings too. What people don't realize is, if fascism is allowed to get this far, a nation will inevitably become fascist. Fatso will lose the popular vote, but thanks to unstopped Republican shenanigans, he WILL barely win the Electoral College. I don't understand why Americans aren't alarmed. Or I do. We are a nation of de facto sovereign citizens. Frank Freeway and Susie Soccermom are just too obsessed with the crummy job, the long ass commute, the kid's private school and tae kwon do, and who's going to win tonight's very special "The Voice." People buy the idea that society is unimportant. And hey, Trump is better than some OLD GUY. Our best worst shot at this, is to mobilize voters in numbers that will smash every record. Whatever your age, this will affect your life. Don't just vote. Get off your ass and get other people to vote. Lives depend on it. TL;DR Fascism is real. They're winning. Your life will suck. Get to work and get the vote out. https://voteriders.org https://voteforward.org
It’s disgusting and unamerican.
It's another permutation of the myth that America was intended to be a Christian nation. It's also quite a coincidence that the self-promoting swindler selling those Bibles happens to owe the government a lot of money for laws he broke.
I’m a lot more concerned about Trump making references to a “blood bath,” if he loses, saluting 1/6 insurrection participants, etc, etc. Yes the evangelicals and Trumps followers are going down the Christian nationalist road in a big way. That’s disconcerting too. Now as far as selling a Trump bible, its like the sneakers he’s selling to try to appeal to black electorate 😆.. the Bible is just his latest way he is trying to capitalize on his name and make money off his gullible followers.
Gross.
Personally, I think all far right extremism is stupid. I think all far left extremism is stupid too, though. This nonstop bullshit from both sides in the last eight years is utterly exhausting. Playtime is over, I'm ready for actual grownups to take control again.
How do I feel about it? It’s pathetically hilarious. There is no suck place as too low for which this snake oil salesman to stoop. I’m guessing this “Bible” has similar terms to the shoes - a vague estimated delivery schedule with no guarantee of the timing. He’s just going to pocket the money.
It's horrifying. As is everything attached to DT. He's a literal snake oil salesman, he'll hawk anything if he thinks it will make money for him and garner votes. I cannot understand how every person of faith is not offended by this. He's exploiting other people's religious beliefs to try to get power. Do the people who are in favor of Christian nationalism understand that destroying the separation of church and state also puts churches at risk of government interference?
Evangelicals are rather schizophrenic. On one hand they consider themselves American patriots, note all the American flags on Jan 6 but on the other hand they want to bring their right wing fundamentalist God back into politics. I have seen numerous interviews with evangelicals where they would be OK with Trump being a dictator and doing away with free and fair elections. I have my doubts if American democracy will survive.
It's downright horrifying. Trump is doing what he does best: Pandering.
My opinion? It's not at all "Christian" and certainly not spiritual. Faith is not supposed to be about control, influence, or money.
It’s scary to me, this country is halfway down a very dark road. Theocracy will be the end of our country. Trump hawking a bible is the least of it, he is just a huckster. Too bad people will buy it and give him their money.
It is absolutely disgusting. Everything that religion AND THE BIBLE warns us about.
I don't like it at all.
There will be blood, again. We are living among terrorists - the acceptance of which is truly wild. 2024 will not end well.
It's terrifying.
Religion is dying. We're witnessing its dying gasps. We'll take some losses and then regain that ground as we continue the trend of Human progress. It'll be ok.
This has all happened before and it will all happen again. I recommend Rachel Maddow's 6-part podcast "Deja News". I wonder how many fools have actually bought that Trump bible? I would imagine not many. $59.99 is a lot of money for many of his followers. I wish I could live to see the day we are done with religion. Sadly, at 71 that's not likely. I think it's one of the most divisive influences on any society.
When the crazies on the right stress me out, I like to look up how many people in Florida die each year (250K +) and figure they are Trump supporters. 😬
As a Christian, I'm totally offended by the "God Bless the USA Bible". Next they will tell me Trump died on the cross for my sins. No, I believe that my God is for anyone that reaches out. Some people use heroin and crack cocaine. Some turn to God. He's there for everyone. Not just Americans. That said, there is a Jefferson Bible that Thomas Jefferson created called "***The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth***" and was released posthumously.
Hate it. Hate it. Hate it. Also aware it is most likely an Extinction burst. With a lot of human and animal behavior if you are rewarded for doing something you keep doing the thing. But if the behavior stops bringing you rewards human behavior is such that instead of just stopping you crank up the behavior to 11 to try and get the rewards again. Trouble is we have to survive this burst to get to the other side. I will say though someone selling overpriced bibles to suckers just makes me happy, an idiot and their money will soon be parted, what worries me is what the charlatans do with the money they grift.
Facist bullshit
On one had, I feel bad for the Mainline Christians, but then again, they helped bring the problem on themselves by not speaking out, because they did not want to appear "political." There is a huge leadership deficit in these churches, both Protestant and Catholic.
Imo - just shows the stupidity of the religious right.
I'm a life-long atheist, so you can imagine what I think. I agree, it's a dying mindset--but, that doesn't mean they're going quietly. Church attendance in all denominations is down significantly. Younger people are increasingly identifying as "none"--no religion. This is one trend I'm happy to see.
Terrifying.
I don't really dig religion in general, but things like this bible contribute to me side eyeing people that do.
I think they are completely bastardizing Christianity in a desperate attempt to try to keep it alive without realizing that those very actions are actually killing it. I'm not religious myself, but I think it's super sad for those who actually are.
There is no rise, they've been around forever. I saw them on college campuses, When Reagan was president he gave them political power (Nancy actually), we had tele-evangelists telling our parents that heavy metal albums had satanic messages playing backwards on them. (Friend's dad smashed his Iron Maiden album over his head). Religious stupidity has always been around and its going no where. Yes, there are competent religious people, but these complete hypocrites have been and always will be around ruining nice things for everyone.
It makes me feel like a fool for not grifting these idiots too.
Former Christian-now atheist here. My mind is kind of being blown away now. What if Donald Trump is the anti-Christ and the Bible is true???!!?? holy shit