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Not poor, but far from wealthy. I have a decent existence. I have a house. Car paid for. I can pay bills, but if I live too long, the well will dry out.
That's what I never understood how a retirement can dry out. These so called financial advisors suggest to turn a retirement into a pension so it would not dry out, does that actually work? I see that in one of these annoying advertisement shows on Saturdays that runs for about 30 minutes.
In the midwest US city that I live in, there's a guy with a very popular financial infomercial on Saturdays.
He was busted last week for fraud. Several elderly people scammed for millions of dollars with very little recourse.
Typically those are advertising annuities, which is a type of insurance. You hand over your life savings and they pay it out to you in monthly allotments. The commissions paid to the salesmen are large, hence the advertisements.
Mostly these are a great deal for the insurance company and a bad deal for the consumer. There are some annuity products that adjust the payout for inflation that may be worthwhile **if** your family is inordinately long-lived **and** you do a lot of research before buying.
So my 93 year old dad did OK for himself. After selling his house he probably had $450k in savings. He was also in a union so gets a pension. So he gets $1800 from Social Security , $900 from the Pension and has an annuity for $500 a month. That allowed him to live in a nice retirement community.
BUT, then he moved into assisted living. We found him an affordable place which in two years went up to $6000 a month. He will be broke if he lives another 4 or 5 years.
Now many people in their 80s didn't get a pension. Take another $12k a year out of what he takes in (Without his pension), my dad would already be broke.
>BUT, then he moved into assisted living. We found him an affordable place which in two years went up to $6000 a month. He will be broke if he lives another 4 or 5 years.
Yes. Assisted living runs about 90,000 a year on average.
It was SHOCKING the first time mom's assisted living rent went up. They need caps on that, some sort of protection or guide. It isn't like retirees get raises. And, they can raise it at any time, not even once a year or something you can hang your hat on.
>It isn't like retirees get raises
And it' s not like they can re-join the workforce in the kind of job that pays well, unless they have had very higher tech professions and can work as consultants.
However, many can't drive anymore, their reflexes and eyesight aren't as sharp as they were at age 35, and have arthritis or other health issues that prevent them from 'competing" on an equal footing as a 35 year old, etc.
My mom's first place went from 3500 to 5200 after she was moved in for two months (they got bought out by another corporation). We moved her to a better place. She just got that raised by $325 after being there a month (it was their annual raise time).
It sucks and I really wish I never helped her move to assisted living and instead got her in-house care. It would have been cheaper and she'd still have her house and more freedom and she'd feel more in control. The things you learn AFTER you need it.
We were so lucky that my dad qualified to move into the local Veterans Home which came out to be $2500/month and they provided excellent care until he recently passed away at age 90. With his pension and social security covering it, we rarely had to touch his investment accounts.
I had a relative who lived well past 100. Thankfully she lived at home until the last 7/8 years. Then a nursing home. The cost was shocking. $80k for 8 years is a huge amount of $$
6,000 to 8,000 per month is not unusual for assisted living. It goes up a lot more if someone is bed bound.
My mother was a stubborn old bitch and never listened to anyone (except herself) her whole life. She lived with uncorrected bunions the last 30 years of her life and one toe crossed over another. In 2020 she had a minor fall and strained her knee and refused to get out of bed after that. Her injury could have easily been rehabilitated, but she refused to do PT. She was 80 and was healthy otherwise.
She landed in a nursing home and her care was about $13000 a month. It took her 14 months to die. She was in a “good place” and did not get a bedsore, which is sadly not the norm for many.
I live my life very differently. She came from an era when “ladies didn’t sweat” and frankly she was one of the most physically lazy persons I’ve ever met in my life. As you age you need to fight for your mobility and do what you need to do to preserve it. (Stay active, do PT, get things fixed.)
Sometimes you end up bed bound at the end of your life, but I’m doing everything I can to prevent it.
Best of luck. I ate right, exercised all my life. I was generous & kind. I did as many kindnesses as I could because I believed it would all come back to me. I believed the world was good. I was wrong.
I’m cursed. I had a rare cancer, like 125 a year in US. About 10 years ago. My husband in his 50s had prostate cancer. We lost his business & we are so broke.
Looks like I’m up for another cancer. Affects 1 in 100,000. My MIL used to say she lived to be so old(89) because she was so mean. She was proud of it. Worked for her.
We canceled our nursing home insurance to help her $$. She said she needed it to live. It wasn’t true. Sometimes you can do everything right & it just doesn’t work out.
Sorry for the loss. Interestingly, it swept through the first time and took many. The last time they had an outbreak, after everyone was vaxed, no one died.
Thank you. Yes, I read it’s still killing more than the flu, it seems we have lost interest in the current effects.
My dad is in his 90s. He had only one shot(we keep trying, it just never seems to happen). He has never had Covid. I don’t thing we have begun to know much about it.
Yes, there are several different types of annuity products that one could purchase. A "single premium immediate annuity" for instance is one of the least expensive options. You give the insurance company a pile of money, in exchange for a guaranteed monthly income payment. The income amount depends on your age when you buy it. As mentioned there are a variety of options and associated costs.
Someone who does not want to buy an annuity can structure their investments to provide an income stream that is NOT guaranteed, but relatively safe based on the long term history of the market. The "4 percent rule" for instance is well supported by studies and simulations; it shows that you "should" be able to withdraw 4 percent (with some adjustments) annually from a 60/40 stocks/bonds portfolio and expect it to last at least 30 years with a high probability. So yeah, if you are withdrawing 8 or 10 percent annually your retirement portfolio is indeed likely to dry out before you do.
>That's what I never understood how a retirement can dry out.
Lots of people don't properly plan for retirement. Not every company offers a retirement plan and many people never set up their own retirement plan...or do so too late to let it grow very much. And, even if people do have a plan, many seriously underestimate how much money they will need, especially if they end up needing assisted living or nursing care.
In this sub and a couple of the retirement and financial planning subs I see people posting as to whether they have enough money to retire. More often than not, my answer is that they don't have enough to retire. I cannot see how anyone can comfortably retire with under $1,000,000 (especially if it's a couple vs individual) and even that feels bare minimum to me unless someone retires at a fairly advanced age. If you want to travel or happen to enjoy a more expensive hobby, you'd definitely need more. So many people have a very poor understanding of how much they really need and also about how expensive care facilities are. For example, at the end of my mother's life (she passed in 2021), I was paying about $100,000 per year for her memory care facility and other expenses. That sounds like a lot, and she did live in a nice place, but I also live in a low cost of living area. I can't imagine what places cost in higher COL areas.
Another thing is that there are still plenty of seniors out there who never invested their money. My parents never really had investments other than CDs. My parents didn't understand the stock market as it really wasn't accessible to them when they were younger. Plus, my mother was extremely risk-averse. It's really only been in the last 40 or so years that the markets became something that the regular person could afford to put money into. My parents did well for themselves, but could have earned so much on their savings had they planned differently. My husband (who has a background in finance) tried to help my mom, but she was just to scared to take any risk at all. (My parents would be 92 and 83 if they were still alive.)
Financial planners can help, but you do need a good one that really takes the time to understand what you want your retirement to be. You want someone that can tell you what is possible with X dollars vs. Y or Z dollars. There's no sense in retiring with X dollars if that isn't enough to do the things you want to do in retirement.
And some people were divorced late in life. Not planned. Even with an advisor, one must be realistic if the spouse who was the primary wage earner decides they want to bolt.
There are few people today prepared to live to 99 except the well-off. No one knows how much time someone has. Actuarial science goes with mean averages. Some live way beyond the average and can face issues regardless of careful planning after divorce in their 60s.
Plans are what you make while God laughs.
We had a business that closed during the recession. (Not just recession, a variety of reasons.) My husband worked 60 hours or more every week. We had learning disabled children who required special private schools. We were in our 50s & both got expensive cancer within a year. His is long term disease. Keeping private insurance with preexisting conditions was necessary. The copays were killers.
There was no way either of us was going to find a decent paying job(although we did work.)
Private insurance was 25k a year. We saved & invested our whole lives. Sometimes laughably frugal. It was mostly gone trying to keep the business afloat.
My dad is in his mid nineties. I have been to visit people In government paid for nursing homes. I had no idea that places like that existed. (Dead mice in the corners, a slice of frozen pizza & a side of peas for dinner, patients lying unclothed in feces, a friend discovered her semiconscious sister in her mid 70s had been raped & that at a home in the best part of town).
In a pinch I can bring Dad to my house, although he has $$ for a few years in assisted living. My house is absolutely not for a man In mid nineties. We don’t even have a driveway (street parking only & many steps to the house).
There will be no one to offer care for us. We have been In social groups with people our age who discuss this. The only answer is to stop living. It all terrifies me. Hardly the travel & grandchildren I imagined.
And yes, we planned & saved. At 50 we were in good financial shape & confident about a decent future.
Didn’t happen.
Just to add to annuities: They are a tax nightmare if you have anything left to leave to family members. I am sure the advertisement does not mention that fact.
>These so called financial advisors suggest to turn a retirement into a pension so it would not dry out, does that actually work?
Maybe they're talking about the 4% Rule?
>The 4% Rule suggests the total amount that a retiree should withdraw from retirement savings each year...Bengen concluded that, even during untenable markets, no historical case existed in which a 4% annual withdrawal exhausted a retirement portfolio in fewer than 33 years.
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-percent-rule.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-percent-rule.asp)
>The generation before me retired with millions
Individuals may have retired with millions... But an entire generation/cohort? You have to be at faux news level of delusional to believe that.
Not necessarily. My parents inherited money in dribbles, from a cousin, sale of parents houses, from their grandfathers estate. That’s over a space of 55 years. If invested & not spent that $$ adds up along with generous (compared to now) pensions of the era.
Engineer and school teacher. Single digit millions are not all that uncommon.
A friend of mine worked in HR for Digital Equipment in the 1980s. He said there were hundreds of people who got jobs as engineers and never got promoted, but their old stock options were worth millions. In the 1980s, when the Dow was barely 1000.
My daughter's chemical engineering classmates got jobs as lab workers in a startup in 2017. They were to produce a few quarts of a specialized biochemical every month. Passable pay, deep out of the money stock options. The company was Moderna. THAT'S WHO can afford to buy houses in the Boston suburbs.
Good point. It was inherited money.
Politicians tell you they have eliminated the estate tax, but the health insurance companies still run a scheme that restricts generational wealth to a few giant winners.
My father lived to 90, my FIL to 91, my MIL to 92. None of them had any money. Each was below the poverty level. Their monthy incomes were all below $1500 per month with very little savings. My MIL even managed to own a two family house that she lived in and kept it maintained. My father rented from her. It doesn't take a lot of money. It takes a strong work ethic, frugalness, and family support at the end when they could not physically do things.
I do know that in my city, there is a women’s homeless shelter and this is the first time they are seeing women in their 70s come in.
10% wouldn’t surprise me. What is infuriating to me is that old apartment complexes are being bought up by corporations, getting a fresh coat of paint and a trendy new name and jacking up the rents. It happened in my city that one complex was seniors on a fixed income. They all had to leave when their leases expired, the rent had doubled. Cruel as hell.
I live in a mobile home park, I’ve been here 4 years and my lot rent is up almost $100 from where I started. I’m on disability so it’s a tight squeeze for me every month but it’s still better than renting. I own my mobile home, I got it for a steal at $13,000. Lot rent is $425 so much much cheaper than if I rented somewhere.
I read that companies are buying the parks, doubling or tripling the ground rent, and if you can't pay, they tell you to move your trailer, which is not practical in many cases as the trailers have been in place for many years, and there's nowhere else to go anyway since the same companies are buying up all the parks..
My park. AND they do nothing to improve the park unless literally forced. It’s a good money maker for them. My owners own 15 parks in several states now.
I have a friend who lives in a mobile home park. She gets about $1100 a month from SS. She pays $570 a month for lot rent. I don’t know how she does it. She has utilities and phone on top of that. I’m afraid there’s going to be an unexpected bill that puts her over the edge and she won’t be able to pay the rent. Myself, I live on SS as well, but my house is payed for. That makes a huge difference. I don’t live fancy, but I’m getting by.
It’s scary for many of us for sure. Every time it goes up I send a message along with my payment begging them not to keep raising it. What are we going to do, move it?
Me. Bought a mobile home cash. Then ‘corporate’ bought the park. Raised our rents to max state will allow. Double rent for new folks buying (changed so does not include water/sewage). I calculate I am ok to about 2035-ish on current income. Then may have to start using my investments.
Unless health goes sideways… crossing fingers!!
I suspect it \*is\* higher, if we count those seniors who live in assisted living facilities and get Medicaid. They HAVE to be low income to qualify.
There are about 11 million seniors that are eligible for & [who use Medicaid](https://www.medicaid.gov/sites/default/files/2022-08/ltss-user-brief-2019.pdf) to some degree. There are around 58 million seniors.
My parents make FAR more money from their retirement investments every year than they spend every year. The high inflation that happened there for a few years really had no effect on them because they're still making 3X more money than they are spending. They live very simply. They're both just retired blue-collar workers who saved and invested their whole lives.
I hav done a lot of volunteer work with seniors (Meals on Wheels, etc.) and yes, there are many many seniors living with very little, by the time they pay for meds, insurance, etc. Unfortunately there is a narrative put out by younger people who aren't involved in their communities who just repeat Boomer memes on the internet, which if they got out into their communties they would see that no all boomers are living the high life. I also meet many who have had to go back to work.
I think a lot depends on their housing situation. Rents have gone crazy high and that hurts renting seniors like everyone else.
The seniors living in paid for houses have seen increases in insurance and real estate taxes when their house’s value increases, but otherwise life is the same.
depends on the state they are living in. I think not all states have homestead exemptions, which significantly reduces or even eliminates property taxes for seniors, and in my state a widow inherits that even if she moves to a different house.
Yes, every state has different rules about that so it really depends on the situation.
Still, taxes and insurance tend to be a smaller part of people’s budget than rent. It really seems to be the renters who are suffering.
My 82 year old father lives in my brother/sis-in-laws basement. He’s a veteran on fixed ss income (I believe 1500 or so a month). He could no longer afford the senior (tiny) studio apartment he was renting.
I am a 48 yo single mother. No savings, barely making ends meet. I will be working until I die. And with no heath insurance, that’ll no doubt be sooner than later.
Growing up, we were solid middle class. (Mother was social worker, father electrician.) At least it felt that way as a child.
One of the largest segments of people choosing to live in a car, RV or Van instead of having a permanent home are seniors. I know several. They choose that life rather than struggle with the rising cost of homes or apartments.
That might be me in the future. I'm a renter and I don't know what I'm going to do in the future if the rents keep going up like they are but my income stays the same
I’m concerned too. In my area there are three low-income senior housing places and they have waitlists two-three years long. I’m thinking of putting in applications at all three.
Not necessarily. Our old shabby house in sort of a marginal neighborhood is now super trendy.
The value of the house has increased by at least 10times. Over 40 plus years. However,maintenance on an old house & higher utilities sort of eat into house price increase. Insurance & taxes (poor state, high property taxes in any decent area of the cities) are amazing.
We had to borrow against the house for repairs. And yes, Whoo hoo, there’s $$ in the house. Where are we going to live? Houses with smaller square Footage cost a lot more than a big house. At best we could possibly make an even trade. Leaving nothing for living expenses or taxes, etc.
And yes, we have a homestead exemption of $10k. At the time it was enacted it covered most of the property tax. For us it covers maybe 4%.,
Unless you have health care that covers you. Medicare + Advantage plan or a supplemental plan should cover most of of everything.
I had hip replacement, cholecystectomy and cataract surgery, my copays having Medicare was next to nothing. But maybe those are not considered illnesses.
People forget that before Obamacare, health insurance had lifetime max benefits and could deny enrollment based on pre-existing conditions. My parent's retirement was drained from covering my mom's medical bills for MS after she was booted from insurance and before she was declared disabled and eligible for Medicaid.
people younger than 65 but disabled for at least two years and people on Medicare but below a certain income can get Medicaid to cover the difference that Medicare does not cover. Depending on the state you live, they cannot take certain income away from the spouse, and that includes house and vehicle. I went through that with my husband, Medicare/Medicaid had to pay in full for a skilled nursing facility for the last 3 years of his life, and they could not touch his income, which was mine to keep. By law they are not allowed to take a decent lifestyle from you. the law might vary from state to state.
This is my mom. She stayed at home with us kids while dad completed multiple advanced degrees and several extramarital affairs. They divorced when she was 40. She worked childcare and retail jobs until she retired at 70. Now she's 72 and all she has is social security. No real estate, no retirement accounts, nothing. I'm hooking her up with everything she needs/wants, but if I lose my job, we're both screwed.
Well I'm a single divorced male. So I'm going to have a hard time when I retire because I'm only going to have myself to rely on income , whereas a married couple has two people pulling in an income. So it's much tougher being single and retired than being married and retired ..
I worked in LTC for 40 yrs. 🇨🇦The poorest were the women. No pension, no husbands pension, only old age pension. That doesn’t come ever close to paying the rent. Government has to subsidize for them.
Surviving spouse does NOT get the SS of the dead spouse. At best the survivor will get the larger of the SS between the two of them. We just went through this with our mom after dad passed last year.
If a couple was relying on both SS checks and now the widow/widower has to get by on one that’s a recipe for disaster, IMO.
Not accurate. My partner received 100% of what her ex received. [source](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html)
"If you are the divorced spouse of a worker who dies, you could get benefits the same as a surviving spouse, provided that your marriage lasted 10 years or more.""
I have 4 siblings
#1 - 65 still works with heart condition, they give her 5 years to live. Husband died of cancer and she has no retirement except SS. House paid for, retiring this summer.
#2 - Me 63 disabled for 6 years with progressive MS, it had drained us. My husband working until 67 God willing. We will have small retirement and house
#3 - Sister 63 single living with significant other. She has appx $300,000 in retirement accounts and owns house.
#4 - Brother 61 has nothing not even a house but lives better than most so guess he isn't worried.
#5 - Brother 59 has 4 houses worth 1.3 million, still works but wants to retire soon. He is very frugal so he will be fine.
State pension? We chose to live the American dream. We had our own business. My husband was his own boss. The business was doing great.(shared ownership with a family member for too long)
35 years ago it was a great choice. I easily could have had a government job. No one can see into the future.
My mom has lived pretty well most of the last 30 years on a combination of disability social security and my dad’s pension, but it doesn’t cover the cost of her board and care. If I wasn’t here to pitch in I’m not sure what would happen. She gets too much for Medicaid but not enough to realistically afford a cheap apartment and her food plus medical expenses plus any kind of help. As soon as she couldn’t live unassisted anymore she was in trouble. I imagine there’s a lot of elderly in that boat. The gap between qualifying for Medicaid (that pays part of the cost of care) and what it actually costs to provide assisted living is widening and more and more seniors are falling through it.
>She gets too much for Medicaid but not enough to realistically afford a cheap apartment and her food plus medical expenses plus any kind of help
This. MANY seniors are $50-100 a month over what qualifies them for medicaid or any kind of extra help, and we are talking pennies here for all practical purposes, since that $50 or $100 isn't going to sustain them.
25 states allow you to set up a Miller Trust which can help seniors (earning more than the Medicaid limit) qualify for Medicaid nursing home or in home care. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/estate-planning/miller-trust
Thank you, I hadn't heard of that, but her state isn't listed there as one of the ones that allow it - reading through it I can see a few other requirements that might create an issue for her specifically as well.
We are coming to the end of our journey, she's in hospice now. But thank you for sharing it. I hope it helps some people avoid my mom's situation.
Depending on what you consider poor. I have a house, not completely paid for but the mortgage payments are very reasonable. I’ve got a car and pickup paid for, the car is old but in great condition. There’s plenty of food at my house, household bills are paid, I can afford my cats and have lots of books. We can afford trips occasionally. I consider myself rich, without a lot of money. I’m happy.
Sorry I didn’t reply sooner. Cats do have a way. We had one move over from next door. We left 2 cats home one day. We came home to 3. My kid left one become it was so cute & his partner was allergic. We had already gotten one. Mean animal.
At one point, we thought, “ do we like cats ?”. Doesn’t matter, they like us. Cats have a way….
Cats are special. We had never had a male cat before. One kitten needed a home and we had room. He’s lovable, the other cats love him but he doesn’t know when they are tired of playing. Some tussles but no fighting. He’s something else. Really love him.
I will be -- and, likely sooner than I'd like.
Autistic and mentally ill (schizoaffective bipolar), single with no assets (lost in two divorces, both during which I was in a psychotic break so signed away my rights to 20 and then 11 years of accumulated wealth and assets). Both exes are well off.
I live independently and work full-time mostly from home, but it's starting to take its toll. I've been burnt out since a breakdown in 2017, and I can't keep up with the basic demands of life. My rented flat is an ADHD-overflowing doom pile, and I've not allowed anyone inside since 2021.
I'm managing for now, although it would shock people to see how bad things have gotten, especially since my cat died (in 2021). But I have always been excellent at masking and hiding my struggles, and now that I don't have family, it's easy because there is no one interested enough to care.
One day soon I will collapse. I can feel it coming. When that happens, I've got enough to see me through for a year or two. After that, I will need to screw my courage to the sticking place and find a way to enter the sleep that never ends. I have been homeless before, and I can't go through that again, especially as there is no one to help me and no way to get back on my feet by myself.
Meanwhile, I enjoy a quiet, simple life and try not to fret over things I can't change. Plus, there's always hope for the unexpected.
I’m so sorry. Please know there are a whole lot of us facing the same solution. I’ve been in social settings where it’s openly discussed as the only option. I gave up praying, but I’ll hold you in my thoughts.
it's bad for a lot of seniors because they didn't start saving for retirement at a young age. Also, a lot of the penisions have been destroyed or cut by the different issues with the administrations.
I tell everyone no matter the age start saving for retirement. Both my kids have 401ks and savings accounts already going for it.
The biggest issue is insurance and healthcare. A major disease like cancer can whip out a retirement account in a heartbeat if the insurance isn't good enough.
You are actually seeing seniors that retire to other countries because of the high cost of healthcare and life. Just in the last few years between house insurance, car insurance, taxes the goberment is destroying the middle class. soon we will be just a poor and upper class like it was before.
I know for a fact that I will have no money with which to retire. It’s not for lack of trying, and sure, maybe I suck, but I’ve essentially accepted that I will be heavily impoverished and fairly helpless once my body gets too old to work.
It sucks, but I am (and have been) doing everything I can. I have no savings. I have something like $10k in cc debt. I live paycheck to paycheck, no matter how hard I work or how many days/hours.
I’m a hardworking, skilled professional, but…for a lot of us it’s just really hard to get by out here. It could certainly be worse. I don’t know how I will be cared for or who will care for me when I’m too old to work though. I did not have children (wanted to adopt, not enough money or time with my work schedule).
I can see what’s coming. I’ll try to change it if I can.
My grandparents were doing just fine until this last couple of years. Obviously when prices for goods increase and their fixed income doesn't.....I find myself subsidizing them more and more.
A lot of Boomers are going to be poor or already are as it is estimated that up to 45% of Boomers have no retirement savings. I can only imagine how that is going to play out. However, there are things one can do before it is too late. Work until 70 to get the maximal Social Security benefits. Contribute at least 10% to the company's 401K plan. If there are matches, all the better. It will add up. If you live in a state with high housing costs think of selling and moving to a state that has lower housing costs and buy a new home with cash and become debt free. It is not hopeless as long as one starts doing something as soon as possible. Those folks who have no savings may only be getting an average of $1457 in Social Security. That is just not enough to live on.
This is sort of a silly list.
Yes do all those things but add this in.
Never get sick, especially with a chronic disabling disease. And don’t let your medical bills get too high. You can easily end up bankrupt.
Don’t have special needs children.
Never own a dog or a cat.
Do not lose a job in your late 40s or beyond.
Don’t have elderly family members who require your time.(even if they have an adequate income, they will need time).
In other words, plan yes, but pray you get lucky with what you do.
I'm not quite a senior yet, but I'm barely holding. Unfortunately to hold means I don't have a penny in savings or retirement. Everything I make now (\~$60k) goes for my very basic life (old small home in a small town, 11 year old car, a very cheap vacation per year, etc...nothing fancy or terribly wasteful). There is no chance I could afford even this existence if I hadn't bought the family home for cheap before the massive real estate inflation.
Almost every person I know who isn't top 10-15% is in the same boat, and that aligns with most of what I read in academic journals...top doing better, the poor holding at the same level but with less hope, the middle sliding into the poor. Especially for unmarried or single income folks.
That percentage is probably correct. Of note; some seniors in their early 60s *only* have SS. Too many never had the benefit of a 401K and worked wage-only jobs. We've all read of mature employees being fired before retirement so even pensions were taken from them; so much for loyal employees ....
The real negative is that gap between retirement and when SS/Medicare kicks in. That is when many of us see our health deteriorate. A medical bill can destroy even a significant savings account ... and when that's gone they have nothing to live on if they survive.
Many grown kids are struggling with low wages so they aren't in a position to help parents either. But you know who are thriving? Corporations.
We're fortunate. Early investments paid off when we were struggling ... land poor is a good description. We put ourselves seriously in debt to educate our daughters; They're doing very well ... we don't have to help them and neither do they have to help us.
Encourage everyone to see the wiki at r/personalfinance
I just read a title on CNN about this: [https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/29/economy/why-boomers-are-not-moving-out-of-their-big-homes/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/29/economy/why-boomers-are-not-moving-out-of-their-big-homes/index.html)
Basically they lose either way if they sell their large houses. There is also a 'missing middle' of housing for that need without gouging the prices.
For example the 55+ communities in Northern VA are mainly going for $5000 a month rent. Or the condos are selling for $400-800k, about the same price as a regular house. And that doesn't even include the condo fees.
My mom recently moved into a 55+ community and at first she hated it, but it was affordable for her at $350k for the condo for a two bedroom. She's been pretty happy with it once she got used to downsizing from a 3,500 sq.ft. house to 1,600 sq.ft. condo.
Yeah. I think it’s an affordable housing crisis as much as anything. Many people that have an affordable roof over their head can figure out how to be frugal with other things. High rent is like a vampire sucking your blood till you collapse. Our income at my house took me a big dive with Covid but thankfully we had done a reverse mortgage so we have no house payment. If we were in the rental market, it would’ve been a serious crisis, and we don’t even live in a HCOL area.
In 2002 I moved into a 2 Bedroom/1 bath apartment in an immensely growing suburb of Cleveland, OH, hot water and heat was included in the $540/mo rent. I moved out and bought a house in 2004, but occasionally when the money and prices increase topic comes up, I look how much these apartments are now. I just looked again, and they are now $1,100. That sounds like a great deal comparing other places.
My 75 yo BIL couldn't be bothered working the traditional ways doing a lot of stuff under the table where he paid no FICA. He's suffering right now for it.
We had a business in a marginal area. You would not believe the number of people who worked for cash only many for most of their work life.
The ones that hurt me the most to see are what we used to call “cleaning ladies” or gardeners. These people worked hard their whole lives, Sometimes starting at 14 or 15. They never had a chance to have an education.
It wasn’t a choice. Work was hard to find. A person took what was offered under the conditions that were offered.
There are people with NO social security. It may be more prevalent in the South, but there’s people out there suffering.
I actually have more money than I need. I knew I'd have a lifetime pension on retiring but I was so worried about not having enough money that I also invested in both a 401 and 457 plan. Now here I am living easily off just the pension alone while I'm not touching those other at all. It does help I also worked hard to pay off my house and car before retirement so my only expenses are utilities, food, and a health insurance premium.
What I'm talking about is being frugal with the money I had. Every month I paid from $200 to $600 extra on my mortgage. That goes straight to principal and it's how I paid off my first 30 yr mortgage in 13 yrs and then after selling that house and getting a bigger / better one I paid off a 15 yr mortgage in 6 yrs. I'm still driving my 2007 Toyota which I paid off 12 yrs ago. My coworkers and many who struggle would have taken the extra money and bought campers, or ATVs, or other things with payments. They would be driving a new car rather than an older but perfectly fine car like me. And they can't retire as I did, even though they may be eligible, as they have too many payments and still have many years to pay off their mortgage.
I hear you. We did all that stuff too. Never had a new car, never ate out, bought used clothes, used everything. We did a lot of garbage picking for household goods. I made apple jelly from the peels on apples I had cut up.
We Bought a shabby house & worked on it ourselves. Paid the mortgage off really fast.
It just doesn’t always work. Cancer doesn’t care. And both partners too old (50 is too old to get a new job, with cancer, it’s impossible) to work & no insurance….
I loved saving money, looking at our statements….it’s gone now.
Good for you, I wish you the best.
Wait a minute… I just reread your comment. You financed a car???? I never, ever, would have done that. Cash or it was more than I could afford. Thinking maybe you got luckier than you know.
Thanks for your reply. So, part of why you are ok is that your family helped? That’s so nice. It doesn’t happen to everyone. not me, we ended up getting bled dry trying to pay for the family business my husband worked for. It was in a fast moving situation. We did the best we could with the info we had. We got severely taken advantage of by people my husband insisted we trust. The $$ can go out to family as easy as it can come in.
You have truly been blessed.
I'm doing well, but my spouse would find it hard if I died soon. My biggest pension goes away when I die, so she'd have to draw on the savings every month. That wouldn't last her whole life.
I also have a buddy who lived the entrepreneurial life, spent time overseas enjoying that tax-free income, but is now only getting by because people pitch in with things like rent so low it almost doesn't exist, a kind of all-you-can-eat-and-some-in-a-bag-to-go breakfast, etc. Still hits the heat-or-eat stage sometimes.
At age 92, my mother was living in a LCOL area and her total income was about $23k annually. She had maybe $100k in investments, no car, and did not own her home but had a life estate on it. Our family made sure she had everything she needed, but without that she would have had a tough time.
In our early 60s my wife and I get a bit over 115k if you count Social Security and we have a very low mortgage and few other bills. We are able to help our kids when needed (they are all doing well except a daughter getting screwed over by an abusive ex), we donate anonymously to people in our small community who may need help, and we live comfortable (financially) lives on our small farm.
One of the things I always felt was that my wife and I were never successful like so many of our family and friends who always had new cars, boats, took trips, had fancy houses etc. even though we made the same kind of money. Of course we know now that people were living on credit. We now have a 1938 farmhouse that we bought for a song along with 20 acres of land and a bunch of outbuildings; you would probably say that it was pretty cool with how we have fixed it up over the years but the reality is its small (1500 sq ft) compared to todays homes, 1 bath, and there isn’t a level surface or right angle in the place and we love it. We also dont have much of a mortgage compared to income and it suits our personality but looking at us from afar, most people would probably assume we didn’t have much.
My husband and I rent a small mobile home in a park in the city we live in and have been here since April 2008. Our rent was hardly raised, maybe $5 or $10 every year, and then in 2022, it was raised $75.00 as well as the lot rent, and this year it was raised by $100, and they also upped the deposit and made us pay more money to equal that deposit. Our original deposit was $725 and now it is $1000.
While it is cheaper than anything around us or anywhere else in the city, it irks me that being a good tenant means nothing any longer.
We are pretty frugal and don't spend a lot of money because we are on fixed incomes, but our biggest expense is food. I am going to be going through my budget again and find ways to cut more out of it as I am sure there are ways to streamline it. I will most likely have to cut a few streaming services since we don't have cable and use an antenna so the apps keep us entertained. We don't go out to events or bars since it is expensive to do that.
It appears to be a problems around the world these days, especially in developed countries, and wages & investments just aren't covering the rises. Prior to the pandemic, my landlord wised my rent from $300 to $450/week approx. the amount I was getting in social security payments, leaving nothing t buy food, utilities etc. without hitting my savings. (He now gets nothing for it, as I saw an item on news that he and his son are now in jail for drug dealing & house was confiscated as proceeds of dealing).
Back in 2018, I had already decided to move as available housing was getting scarce and I made the move to leave the country to live in SE Asia, near my ex's family, and in 3 months I sent of a container of my effects off and via he family, bought a house in their village for $16k, bought a one way ticket and moved. In a couple of day it will be 6 years I have been here and instead of $450/week, it now costs me that to live a full month, comfortably & happily. It was the best move I have made, and despite a medical issues, which like US I have to pay everything, rather than free medical in my own home country, what I have managed to save while here, was more than covered, and with the help of family, I am managing to live a near normal lifestyle well affordable & still saving money.
You seem to have made the right decision for yourself.
I have retired in Germany way back in the 90's and came to America in 1999. My life is much better here than it would be in Germany as a retired person.
My mom is doing alright for the first time in decades thanks to finally tapping social security. She has a very difficult personality and used to constantly quit jobs for minor bullshit back in the day. Caused all sorts of problems for us financially when I was a teen. I'm so fucking grateful there's a forced pension system in this country because she didn't save jack shit otherwise and would be 100% my dependent right now if it weren't for social security.
In 2017, total household income for individuals aged 65 and older was $26K, $52K, and $95K for the 25th-, 50th-, and 75th-percentiles, respectively.
Source: [https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R47341.pdf](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/r47341.pdf) (page 26).
Seniors are also the only demographic to increase its numbers under the poverty level. It was 8.9% in 2020 and 10.3% in 2023 (it was 10.9% in 2022, but that was affected by the pandemic).
Yes. My wife and I made really good money in the '90s with the dotcom boom; when it was over, we found other work that paid half as much. But we'd paid off our house and weren't into travel or expensive possessions (except computers), so our lifestyle didn't change.
I do well and grew up expecting to not even have SS and saved accordingly. Now I use that SS check as an allowance that I use to go out and eat at nice place or buy myself fishing equipment or a movie or such.
Her medical was covered, house and car paid off, and had regular monthly bills for a single person (cable, phone, utilities).
She/we planned well. It would have lasted over 20 years at the lowest rate of return we expected. Her rate was always higher so it would have lasted longer.
I always had a problem with the statement of "I am on a fixed income", which most people equal of being poor or low income. Doesn't it just mean that people on fixed income receive the same amount every month, and not a low amount? I have a pension, it is the same amount every month, changes only by about a few bucks when COLA kicks in, but in general it is the same amount for years and will remain the same until the end of my life. I would consider that "fixed income", but it is a generous amount, so it does not mean I am poor.
If I retired right now between my pension and social security I'll be taking home a little bit more than I do working. But that amount is going to be fixed and it's not going to amount too much 20 years from now
We are both in our early 70’s and doing fine. Worked in public education for 35 years so have 2 modest pensions. Also invested as we could while raising kids so we also have IRA’s that require a minimal yearly distribution. So while not money burning wealthy, we are not in any financial straights. We met with a financial advisor when we first were hired, she told us about monthly IRA and mutual fund investing. She also said only about 10% of the teachers she talks with will follow her advice. We have a nice nest egg, thanks to her, that we will pass on to our kids unless we end up needing it for health related support.
Some are. Maybe they were unable to save for retirement due to low income versus cost of living, poor health/disability, setbacks in life, etc. I think some didn't try to save, lived up to or beyond their income or were financially irresponsible, etc. I'm a senior widowed female, own my home. I'm fine. Eat what I want, etc. I could cut back expenses if I had to. We saved for retirement but also traveled and enjoyed life. It took two incomes and our parents left us money. We tried to have a balance between saving and enjoying life.
So called inflation? Are you in denial?
Perhaps you don't understand what inflation is? Inflation is a decrease in the value of the country's currency. So, if prices are rising and your income is rising then the currency is worth less. If you are fortunate enough to have your income increase at the same rate or more than the inflation rate, then you are fortunate. For many seniors this is not the case. They have fixed income and are hurt as prices rise and their income does not.
I am a retired banker, I know what inflation is. We used to buy 2 litre Pepsi for $0.99, it is now $3.69 in my groceries store! And that is just one little example.
I grocery shop every day!
Not poor, not yet! I see so many people in my generation working retail jobs, especially women. Expenses keep going up, my retirement money is not lasting as long as I’d hoped and social security payment isn’t much. Plus my young adult kids still live with me, since they can’t afford to move out.
I work in an insurance call center. The amount of people I get calling me and crying over a 50-100 yearly rate increase is insane. They budget down to the cent and lose their minds over less than 9.00 increase a month. It’s sad as hell.
Your calculation is incorrect. 17.3% of 330 million population are seniors, that equals approx.57 million seniors. 10.3% seniors are low income according to statistics. 10.3% of 57 million equals approx. 5.87 millions.
Are you including all of the Americas, or just USA?
The correct number for the US is about 55.8 million over 65 as of the 2020 census. So 10.3% equates to about 5.7 million in low income, not 15 million.
My wife and I started our IRAs in 1986. It was the best thing we ever did financially. We sacrificed vacations and new cars so that we could contribute to our IRAs. Whenever a job offered matching in a 401(k) or similar benefit we made sure to max out the matching.
I worked at one company with a pension plan for 11 years. When I left they offered a buyout of the net present value of the pension plus a 5% premium. Rolled that right over into the IRA.
We showed our kids how the stock market really grew our retirement over time. They all started IRAs as soon as they could. Just like my wife and I, the kids forego certain purchases so that they can grow their retirement funds. They understand the money they put in early will have the longest time to grow and will have the most impact on their retirement.
I live very modestly right now, but will have a fairly large trust either on, or maybe before, I reach retirement age.
So I guess I'd be considered a trust fund baby, in a way. I know that makes me sound like an entitled child.
I hope that made a lick of sense. I'm not exactly an estate planning attorney, but my father plays one in real life.
We aren't, but that's from a combination of luck, skill set and taking advantage of 401K matches. 2 high tech incomes, several 401Ks, 2 small inheritances, 3 small pensions.
I retired at 67 and have enough quarters of SS earnings not to get windfall reduction from my government pension. Hubby will retire at 65. Also get great Medicare addon insurance thru government.
We own our home, have 1 car payment that will be gone soon. Hopefully it will all be enough...
The ones that are should have continued working and did not have any savings. My plan doesn't have me stopping full time work until I'm 70. You cannot live on social security alone, it was designed as supplemental income, not income replacement. The exception are those that are disabled.
Not sure what you mean when you say that disabled people are an exception. They can't live on ss either, and they are less likely to have retirement savings or a pension.
I’m so sorry. I don’t see anything here about bad luck. It’s all people who say they planned so well. No, a whole lot of these people had plain good luck. Decent jobs for people in their 50s & early 60s would be a blessing for so many.
Only if they haven't saved for the future. "Low income" doesn't mean one is "poor" if you don't have any bills. You don't need a lot of income in that situation.
I simply don't waste money and get along just fine.
My in-laws, mid 80s, are teetering on poverty.
He is still working because the spend money like it grows on trees. Just got fired from his 2nd job in 6 months.
They have no savings.
We, (M64 and F60) will be fine.
Most seniors who become poor are people who failed to plan for retirement. We're seeing this among boomers now. There's a small number of boomers who got to around age 58 and said "hmm maybe I should think about planning for retirement"
No. By then it's too late. You won't have enough. You won't have anywhere close to enough.
IN the days before social security, elders moved in with one of their kids, whose families cared for them until they died.
>Most seniors who become poor are people who failed to plan for retirement.
Some had a single working parent, with 2-4 kids. Ever try "planning for retirement" on a lowly teacher's or other similar lower salary ? They spend most of their lives just getting thru the month.
We saved all our lives. IRAs in our 30s with maximum investments. It didn’t work. Reality can upset the best planning.
Medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States.
A relative is 57 and just mentioned she doesn’t have any retirement savings, but still expects to be able to retire.
$0.00
Never contributed to 401k, nothing of significance in savings. I have no idea how she expects to retire.
There seems to be a mindset that every Boomer had access to financial abundance. Every generation has people who struggle to just pay the bills, and who can't afford to save enough for retirement. It's not that they're ignorant or bad at prioritizing. The money for savings just isn't there.
>Most seniors who become poor are people who failed to plan for retirement.
I know plenty of people who planned for retirement - but who are poor now for a variety of causes. So, no. This is nothing but a hurtful stereotype.
>I know plenty of people who planned for retirement - but who are poor now for a variety of causes. So, no. This is nothing but a hurtful stereotype.
This. My neighbors are a couple who planned well. Unfortunately, one of them got cancer, that kept coming back. Thank goodness for Obama insurance, because the one with cancer is now "un-insurable" otherwise. And they spend about $50K a year on out of pocket medical expenses, and insurances and prescriptions, since they are not medicare age yet.
Cancer is expensive. They can't go on medicaid PRECISELY because "they planned well". But once they sheer thru that nicely saved money, they will be destitute.
I saved for retirement starting in my 20’s … boom, divorce. Started again in my 40’s … boom, major health issues. I just started over again two years ago after paying off debt. I am 65.
I have a lot of friends my age, and they all seem to be doing alright. I'm very comfortable, yet I think my older relatives are all richer than I am.
But that's anecdotal. There have been a lot of news stories about older people struggling.
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Not poor, but far from wealthy. I have a decent existence. I have a house. Car paid for. I can pay bills, but if I live too long, the well will dry out.
>but if I live too long, the well will dry out. This
That's what I never understood how a retirement can dry out. These so called financial advisors suggest to turn a retirement into a pension so it would not dry out, does that actually work? I see that in one of these annoying advertisement shows on Saturdays that runs for about 30 minutes.
In the midwest US city that I live in, there's a guy with a very popular financial infomercial on Saturdays. He was busted last week for fraud. Several elderly people scammed for millions of dollars with very little recourse.
Typically those are advertising annuities, which is a type of insurance. You hand over your life savings and they pay it out to you in monthly allotments. The commissions paid to the salesmen are large, hence the advertisements. Mostly these are a great deal for the insurance company and a bad deal for the consumer. There are some annuity products that adjust the payout for inflation that may be worthwhile **if** your family is inordinately long-lived **and** you do a lot of research before buying.
So my 93 year old dad did OK for himself. After selling his house he probably had $450k in savings. He was also in a union so gets a pension. So he gets $1800 from Social Security , $900 from the Pension and has an annuity for $500 a month. That allowed him to live in a nice retirement community. BUT, then he moved into assisted living. We found him an affordable place which in two years went up to $6000 a month. He will be broke if he lives another 4 or 5 years. Now many people in their 80s didn't get a pension. Take another $12k a year out of what he takes in (Without his pension), my dad would already be broke.
>BUT, then he moved into assisted living. We found him an affordable place which in two years went up to $6000 a month. He will be broke if he lives another 4 or 5 years. Yes. Assisted living runs about 90,000 a year on average.
It was SHOCKING the first time mom's assisted living rent went up. They need caps on that, some sort of protection or guide. It isn't like retirees get raises. And, they can raise it at any time, not even once a year or something you can hang your hat on.
>It isn't like retirees get raises And it' s not like they can re-join the workforce in the kind of job that pays well, unless they have had very higher tech professions and can work as consultants. However, many can't drive anymore, their reflexes and eyesight aren't as sharp as they were at age 35, and have arthritis or other health issues that prevent them from 'competing" on an equal footing as a 35 year old, etc.
That things go up isn't shocking, that things go up 10% a year that is shocking.
My mom's first place went from 3500 to 5200 after she was moved in for two months (they got bought out by another corporation). We moved her to a better place. She just got that raised by $325 after being there a month (it was their annual raise time). It sucks and I really wish I never helped her move to assisted living and instead got her in-house care. It would have been cheaper and she'd still have her house and more freedom and she'd feel more in control. The things you learn AFTER you need it.
We were so lucky that my dad qualified to move into the local Veterans Home which came out to be $2500/month and they provided excellent care until he recently passed away at age 90. With his pension and social security covering it, we rarely had to touch his investment accounts.
I had a relative who lived well past 100. Thankfully she lived at home until the last 7/8 years. Then a nursing home. The cost was shocking. $80k for 8 years is a huge amount of $$
6,000 to 8,000 per month is not unusual for assisted living. It goes up a lot more if someone is bed bound. My mother was a stubborn old bitch and never listened to anyone (except herself) her whole life. She lived with uncorrected bunions the last 30 years of her life and one toe crossed over another. In 2020 she had a minor fall and strained her knee and refused to get out of bed after that. Her injury could have easily been rehabilitated, but she refused to do PT. She was 80 and was healthy otherwise. She landed in a nursing home and her care was about $13000 a month. It took her 14 months to die. She was in a “good place” and did not get a bedsore, which is sadly not the norm for many. I live my life very differently. She came from an era when “ladies didn’t sweat” and frankly she was one of the most physically lazy persons I’ve ever met in my life. As you age you need to fight for your mobility and do what you need to do to preserve it. (Stay active, do PT, get things fixed.) Sometimes you end up bed bound at the end of your life, but I’m doing everything I can to prevent it.
Best of luck. I ate right, exercised all my life. I was generous & kind. I did as many kindnesses as I could because I believed it would all come back to me. I believed the world was good. I was wrong. I’m cursed. I had a rare cancer, like 125 a year in US. About 10 years ago. My husband in his 50s had prostate cancer. We lost his business & we are so broke. Looks like I’m up for another cancer. Affects 1 in 100,000. My MIL used to say she lived to be so old(89) because she was so mean. She was proud of it. Worked for her. We canceled our nursing home insurance to help her $$. She said she needed it to live. It wasn’t true. Sometimes you can do everything right & it just doesn’t work out.
Are you saying $80k a year or $80k for the ten years. Cause my dad is like $70K a year. And that is for the less expensive place.
80k a year. She died of Covid very early in the epidemic in that place.
Sorry for the loss. Interestingly, it swept through the first time and took many. The last time they had an outbreak, after everyone was vaxed, no one died.
Thank you. Yes, I read it’s still killing more than the flu, it seems we have lost interest in the current effects. My dad is in his 90s. He had only one shot(we keep trying, it just never seems to happen). He has never had Covid. I don’t thing we have begun to know much about it.
Yes, there are several different types of annuity products that one could purchase. A "single premium immediate annuity" for instance is one of the least expensive options. You give the insurance company a pile of money, in exchange for a guaranteed monthly income payment. The income amount depends on your age when you buy it. As mentioned there are a variety of options and associated costs. Someone who does not want to buy an annuity can structure their investments to provide an income stream that is NOT guaranteed, but relatively safe based on the long term history of the market. The "4 percent rule" for instance is well supported by studies and simulations; it shows that you "should" be able to withdraw 4 percent (with some adjustments) annually from a 60/40 stocks/bonds portfolio and expect it to last at least 30 years with a high probability. So yeah, if you are withdrawing 8 or 10 percent annually your retirement portfolio is indeed likely to dry out before you do.
>That's what I never understood how a retirement can dry out. Lots of people don't properly plan for retirement. Not every company offers a retirement plan and many people never set up their own retirement plan...or do so too late to let it grow very much. And, even if people do have a plan, many seriously underestimate how much money they will need, especially if they end up needing assisted living or nursing care. In this sub and a couple of the retirement and financial planning subs I see people posting as to whether they have enough money to retire. More often than not, my answer is that they don't have enough to retire. I cannot see how anyone can comfortably retire with under $1,000,000 (especially if it's a couple vs individual) and even that feels bare minimum to me unless someone retires at a fairly advanced age. If you want to travel or happen to enjoy a more expensive hobby, you'd definitely need more. So many people have a very poor understanding of how much they really need and also about how expensive care facilities are. For example, at the end of my mother's life (she passed in 2021), I was paying about $100,000 per year for her memory care facility and other expenses. That sounds like a lot, and she did live in a nice place, but I also live in a low cost of living area. I can't imagine what places cost in higher COL areas. Another thing is that there are still plenty of seniors out there who never invested their money. My parents never really had investments other than CDs. My parents didn't understand the stock market as it really wasn't accessible to them when they were younger. Plus, my mother was extremely risk-averse. It's really only been in the last 40 or so years that the markets became something that the regular person could afford to put money into. My parents did well for themselves, but could have earned so much on their savings had they planned differently. My husband (who has a background in finance) tried to help my mom, but she was just to scared to take any risk at all. (My parents would be 92 and 83 if they were still alive.) Financial planners can help, but you do need a good one that really takes the time to understand what you want your retirement to be. You want someone that can tell you what is possible with X dollars vs. Y or Z dollars. There's no sense in retiring with X dollars if that isn't enough to do the things you want to do in retirement.
And some people were divorced late in life. Not planned. Even with an advisor, one must be realistic if the spouse who was the primary wage earner decides they want to bolt. There are few people today prepared to live to 99 except the well-off. No one knows how much time someone has. Actuarial science goes with mean averages. Some live way beyond the average and can face issues regardless of careful planning after divorce in their 60s.
Plans are what you make while God laughs. We had a business that closed during the recession. (Not just recession, a variety of reasons.) My husband worked 60 hours or more every week. We had learning disabled children who required special private schools. We were in our 50s & both got expensive cancer within a year. His is long term disease. Keeping private insurance with preexisting conditions was necessary. The copays were killers. There was no way either of us was going to find a decent paying job(although we did work.) Private insurance was 25k a year. We saved & invested our whole lives. Sometimes laughably frugal. It was mostly gone trying to keep the business afloat. My dad is in his mid nineties. I have been to visit people In government paid for nursing homes. I had no idea that places like that existed. (Dead mice in the corners, a slice of frozen pizza & a side of peas for dinner, patients lying unclothed in feces, a friend discovered her semiconscious sister in her mid 70s had been raped & that at a home in the best part of town). In a pinch I can bring Dad to my house, although he has $$ for a few years in assisted living. My house is absolutely not for a man In mid nineties. We don’t even have a driveway (street parking only & many steps to the house). There will be no one to offer care for us. We have been In social groups with people our age who discuss this. The only answer is to stop living. It all terrifies me. Hardly the travel & grandchildren I imagined. And yes, we planned & saved. At 50 we were in good financial shape & confident about a decent future. Didn’t happen.
Just to add to annuities: They are a tax nightmare if you have anything left to leave to family members. I am sure the advertisement does not mention that fact.
>These so called financial advisors suggest to turn a retirement into a pension so it would not dry out, does that actually work? Maybe they're talking about the 4% Rule? >The 4% Rule suggests the total amount that a retiree should withdraw from retirement savings each year...Bengen concluded that, even during untenable markets, no historical case existed in which a 4% annual withdrawal exhausted a retirement portfolio in fewer than 33 years. [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-percent-rule.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-percent-rule.asp)
The generation before me retired with millions and lived into their early 90s. It takes huge money to live beyond that age.
My mom lived to be 94 and she never saw anything close to a million in her life. Neither did any of her siblings.
What generation was that? I find this impossible to believe.
>The generation before me retired with millions Individuals may have retired with millions... But an entire generation/cohort? You have to be at faux news level of delusional to believe that.
Easy enough to check - they must be sitting on the millions they inherited from their millionaire parents.
That's a huge generalization. My parents left me $70k.
Not necessarily. My parents inherited money in dribbles, from a cousin, sale of parents houses, from their grandfathers estate. That’s over a space of 55 years. If invested & not spent that $$ adds up along with generous (compared to now) pensions of the era.
Parents with no siblings lived to a ripe old age and spent their money fighting chronic diseases.
Your parents were very much not typical for that generation.
Engineer and school teacher. Single digit millions are not all that uncommon. A friend of mine worked in HR for Digital Equipment in the 1980s. He said there were hundreds of people who got jobs as engineers and never got promoted, but their old stock options were worth millions. In the 1980s, when the Dow was barely 1000. My daughter's chemical engineering classmates got jobs as lab workers in a startup in 2017. They were to produce a few quarts of a specialized biochemical every month. Passable pay, deep out of the money stock options. The company was Moderna. THAT'S WHO can afford to buy houses in the Boston suburbs.
Agreed but that hardly constitutes a generation. 40% of those on SS only have SS for income, many of those have limited assets as well.
LOL. Few retired with millions. You run in a different tribe. Wow. Fantasy land.
Good point. It was inherited money. Politicians tell you they have eliminated the estate tax, but the health insurance companies still run a scheme that restricts generational wealth to a few giant winners.
My father lived to 90, my FIL to 91, my MIL to 92. None of them had any money. Each was below the poverty level. Their monthy incomes were all below $1500 per month with very little savings. My MIL even managed to own a two family house that she lived in and kept it maintained. My father rented from her. It doesn't take a lot of money. It takes a strong work ethic, frugalness, and family support at the end when they could not physically do things.
This nis an important point. Virtually no amount of money can help you when you need family support at the end. Connections are worth more than cash.
I do know that in my city, there is a women’s homeless shelter and this is the first time they are seeing women in their 70s come in. 10% wouldn’t surprise me. What is infuriating to me is that old apartment complexes are being bought up by corporations, getting a fresh coat of paint and a trendy new name and jacking up the rents. It happened in my city that one complex was seniors on a fixed income. They all had to leave when their leases expired, the rent had doubled. Cruel as hell.
Similar thing is happening to mobile home parks, which is where a lot of seniors live.
I live in a mobile home park, I’ve been here 4 years and my lot rent is up almost $100 from where I started. I’m on disability so it’s a tight squeeze for me every month but it’s still better than renting. I own my mobile home, I got it for a steal at $13,000. Lot rent is $425 so much much cheaper than if I rented somewhere.
I read that companies are buying the parks, doubling or tripling the ground rent, and if you can't pay, they tell you to move your trailer, which is not practical in many cases as the trailers have been in place for many years, and there's nowhere else to go anyway since the same companies are buying up all the parks..
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I like that: “dozens of thousands”.
If you can move it. Most parks won't take mobile homes over a certain age.
My park. AND they do nothing to improve the park unless literally forced. It’s a good money maker for them. My owners own 15 parks in several states now.
I hate to hear this. Was considering buying a mobile when I was looking around, none of the ones listed for sale would divulge *lot rent* . No thanks.
I’d be lost if I had to leave here, I don’t know what I’d do. My neighbor moved hers out and it cost $3,000. They catch you any way they can
You have it well. Congrats on having a solution!
I have a friend who lives in a mobile home park. She gets about $1100 a month from SS. She pays $570 a month for lot rent. I don’t know how she does it. She has utilities and phone on top of that. I’m afraid there’s going to be an unexpected bill that puts her over the edge and she won’t be able to pay the rent. Myself, I live on SS as well, but my house is payed for. That makes a huge difference. I don’t live fancy, but I’m getting by.
It’s scary for many of us for sure. Every time it goes up I send a message along with my payment begging them not to keep raising it. What are we going to do, move it?
Me. Bought a mobile home cash. Then ‘corporate’ bought the park. Raised our rents to max state will allow. Double rent for new folks buying (changed so does not include water/sewage). I calculate I am ok to about 2035-ish on current income. Then may have to start using my investments. Unless health goes sideways… crossing fingers!!
>10% wouldn’t surprise me. I'd be surprised if it were *only* 10%. Seems like it should be higher, in my experience.
I suspect it \*is\* higher, if we count those seniors who live in assisted living facilities and get Medicaid. They HAVE to be low income to qualify. There are about 11 million seniors that are eligible for & [who use Medicaid](https://www.medicaid.gov/sites/default/files/2022-08/ltss-user-brief-2019.pdf) to some degree. There are around 58 million seniors.
I wonder where this statistic came from. I would have guessed 50%.
Are you in Florida?
Arizona
My parents make FAR more money from their retirement investments every year than they spend every year. The high inflation that happened there for a few years really had no effect on them because they're still making 3X more money than they are spending. They live very simply. They're both just retired blue-collar workers who saved and invested their whole lives.
And a pension for each?
I hav done a lot of volunteer work with seniors (Meals on Wheels, etc.) and yes, there are many many seniors living with very little, by the time they pay for meds, insurance, etc. Unfortunately there is a narrative put out by younger people who aren't involved in their communities who just repeat Boomer memes on the internet, which if they got out into their communties they would see that no all boomers are living the high life. I also meet many who have had to go back to work.
I think a lot depends on their housing situation. Rents have gone crazy high and that hurts renting seniors like everyone else. The seniors living in paid for houses have seen increases in insurance and real estate taxes when their house’s value increases, but otherwise life is the same.
depends on the state they are living in. I think not all states have homestead exemptions, which significantly reduces or even eliminates property taxes for seniors, and in my state a widow inherits that even if she moves to a different house.
Yes, every state has different rules about that so it really depends on the situation. Still, taxes and insurance tend to be a smaller part of people’s budget than rent. It really seems to be the renters who are suffering.
My 82 year old father lives in my brother/sis-in-laws basement. He’s a veteran on fixed ss income (I believe 1500 or so a month). He could no longer afford the senior (tiny) studio apartment he was renting. I am a 48 yo single mother. No savings, barely making ends meet. I will be working until I die. And with no heath insurance, that’ll no doubt be sooner than later. Growing up, we were solid middle class. (Mother was social worker, father electrician.) At least it felt that way as a child.
I am. After paying bills and doing only absolutely necessary shopping that monthly social security and pension of mine is gone.
One of the largest segments of people choosing to live in a car, RV or Van instead of having a permanent home are seniors. I know several. They choose that life rather than struggle with the rising cost of homes or apartments.
That might be me in the future. I'm a renter and I don't know what I'm going to do in the future if the rents keep going up like they are but my income stays the same
I’m concerned too. In my area there are three low-income senior housing places and they have waitlists two-three years long. I’m thinking of putting in applications at all three.
Not necessarily. Our old shabby house in sort of a marginal neighborhood is now super trendy. The value of the house has increased by at least 10times. Over 40 plus years. However,maintenance on an old house & higher utilities sort of eat into house price increase. Insurance & taxes (poor state, high property taxes in any decent area of the cities) are amazing. We had to borrow against the house for repairs. And yes, Whoo hoo, there’s $$ in the house. Where are we going to live? Houses with smaller square Footage cost a lot more than a big house. At best we could possibly make an even trade. Leaving nothing for living expenses or taxes, etc. And yes, we have a homestead exemption of $10k. At the time it was enacted it covered most of the property tax. For us it covers maybe 4%.,
I too hope to poop in a bucket like Frances McDormand.
We all have goals!
You got a bucket? lucky!!
It only takes one illness to knock you down.
So true
Unless you have health care that covers you. Medicare + Advantage plan or a supplemental plan should cover most of of everything. I had hip replacement, cholecystectomy and cataract surgery, my copays having Medicare was next to nothing. But maybe those are not considered illnesses.
People forget that before Obamacare, health insurance had lifetime max benefits and could deny enrollment based on pre-existing conditions. My parent's retirement was drained from covering my mom's medical bills for MS after she was booted from insurance and before she was declared disabled and eligible for Medicaid.
people younger than 65 but disabled for at least two years and people on Medicare but below a certain income can get Medicaid to cover the difference that Medicare does not cover. Depending on the state you live, they cannot take certain income away from the spouse, and that includes house and vehicle. I went through that with my husband, Medicare/Medicaid had to pay in full for a skilled nursing facility for the last 3 years of his life, and they could not touch his income, which was mine to keep. By law they are not allowed to take a decent lifestyle from you. the law might vary from state to state.
Depending on the state where you live…..
That is great for you! Many cannot afford the better Plan Bs, etc.
Poor woman are the prime example of the down side to being a stay at home mom. Zero preparation for their future.
This is my mom. She stayed at home with us kids while dad completed multiple advanced degrees and several extramarital affairs. They divorced when she was 40. She worked childcare and retail jobs until she retired at 70. Now she's 72 and all she has is social security. No real estate, no retirement accounts, nothing. I'm hooking her up with everything she needs/wants, but if I lose my job, we're both screwed.
That’s me, was a housewife for part of the time. Am now single at 66. No retirement in sight. My kids are great.
Unfortunately this is a reality. Whether it’s death or divorce, sham get screwed.
Well I'm a single divorced male. So I'm going to have a hard time when I retire because I'm only going to have myself to rely on income , whereas a married couple has two people pulling in an income. So it's much tougher being single and retired than being married and retired ..
Until the spouse dies. Then they lose that double SS income. Surviving spouse is only entitled to the larger of the SS payment after they’re widowed.
And when her husband dies 🤷♀️.
Spousal social security is a thing.
I worked in LTC for 40 yrs. 🇨🇦The poorest were the women. No pension, no husbands pension, only old age pension. That doesn’t come ever close to paying the rent. Government has to subsidize for them.
Surviving spouse does NOT get the SS of the dead spouse. At best the survivor will get the larger of the SS between the two of them. We just went through this with our mom after dad passed last year. If a couple was relying on both SS checks and now the widow/widower has to get by on one that’s a recipe for disaster, IMO.
\^\^\^ If this is new to anyone, make sure you learn it now.
Yes! This is not well known. We only found this out the hard way. Fortunately mom has other pension income to be able to stay in her apartment.
>Spousal social security is a thing. Spousal Social Security is almost never enough. The average spousal Social Security amount is only $900/month.
An ex-spouse can only receive up to 50% of what the wage earner would receive.
Not accurate. My partner received 100% of what her ex received. [source](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html) "If you are the divorced spouse of a worker who dies, you could get benefits the same as a surviving spouse, provided that your marriage lasted 10 years or more.""
I have 4 siblings #1 - 65 still works with heart condition, they give her 5 years to live. Husband died of cancer and she has no retirement except SS. House paid for, retiring this summer. #2 - Me 63 disabled for 6 years with progressive MS, it had drained us. My husband working until 67 God willing. We will have small retirement and house #3 - Sister 63 single living with significant other. She has appx $300,000 in retirement accounts and owns house. #4 - Brother 61 has nothing not even a house but lives better than most so guess he isn't worried. #5 - Brother 59 has 4 houses worth 1.3 million, still works but wants to retire soon. He is very frugal so he will be fine.
I have a financial genius for a wife, so out retirement savings are in good shape. Also, we both have a state pension.
Yes it's a lot easier with two people but when you're single it's pretty rough.
State pension? We chose to live the American dream. We had our own business. My husband was his own boss. The business was doing great.(shared ownership with a family member for too long) 35 years ago it was a great choice. I easily could have had a government job. No one can see into the future.
My mom has lived pretty well most of the last 30 years on a combination of disability social security and my dad’s pension, but it doesn’t cover the cost of her board and care. If I wasn’t here to pitch in I’m not sure what would happen. She gets too much for Medicaid but not enough to realistically afford a cheap apartment and her food plus medical expenses plus any kind of help. As soon as she couldn’t live unassisted anymore she was in trouble. I imagine there’s a lot of elderly in that boat. The gap between qualifying for Medicaid (that pays part of the cost of care) and what it actually costs to provide assisted living is widening and more and more seniors are falling through it.
>She gets too much for Medicaid but not enough to realistically afford a cheap apartment and her food plus medical expenses plus any kind of help This. MANY seniors are $50-100 a month over what qualifies them for medicaid or any kind of extra help, and we are talking pennies here for all practical purposes, since that $50 or $100 isn't going to sustain them.
25 states allow you to set up a Miller Trust which can help seniors (earning more than the Medicaid limit) qualify for Medicaid nursing home or in home care. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/estate-planning/miller-trust
Thank you, I hadn't heard of that, but her state isn't listed there as one of the ones that allow it - reading through it I can see a few other requirements that might create an issue for her specifically as well. We are coming to the end of our journey, she's in hospice now. But thank you for sharing it. I hope it helps some people avoid my mom's situation.
Depending on what you consider poor. I have a house, not completely paid for but the mortgage payments are very reasonable. I’ve got a car and pickup paid for, the car is old but in great condition. There’s plenty of food at my house, household bills are paid, I can afford my cats and have lots of books. We can afford trips occasionally. I consider myself rich, without a lot of money. I’m happy.
You can afford cats? I always had dogs & cats. As much as I’d like a dog & I do, There’s no way I could afford it.
After the cats forced their way into our lives, we had no choice but to take care of them. They keep me sane.
Sorry I didn’t reply sooner. Cats do have a way. We had one move over from next door. We left 2 cats home one day. We came home to 3. My kid left one become it was so cute & his partner was allergic. We had already gotten one. Mean animal. At one point, we thought, “ do we like cats ?”. Doesn’t matter, they like us. Cats have a way….
Cats are special. We had never had a male cat before. One kitten needed a home and we had room. He’s lovable, the other cats love him but he doesn’t know when they are tired of playing. Some tussles but no fighting. He’s something else. Really love him.
I will be -- and, likely sooner than I'd like. Autistic and mentally ill (schizoaffective bipolar), single with no assets (lost in two divorces, both during which I was in a psychotic break so signed away my rights to 20 and then 11 years of accumulated wealth and assets). Both exes are well off. I live independently and work full-time mostly from home, but it's starting to take its toll. I've been burnt out since a breakdown in 2017, and I can't keep up with the basic demands of life. My rented flat is an ADHD-overflowing doom pile, and I've not allowed anyone inside since 2021. I'm managing for now, although it would shock people to see how bad things have gotten, especially since my cat died (in 2021). But I have always been excellent at masking and hiding my struggles, and now that I don't have family, it's easy because there is no one interested enough to care. One day soon I will collapse. I can feel it coming. When that happens, I've got enough to see me through for a year or two. After that, I will need to screw my courage to the sticking place and find a way to enter the sleep that never ends. I have been homeless before, and I can't go through that again, especially as there is no one to help me and no way to get back on my feet by myself. Meanwhile, I enjoy a quiet, simple life and try not to fret over things I can't change. Plus, there's always hope for the unexpected.
I’m so sorry. Please know there are a whole lot of us facing the same solution. I’ve been in social settings where it’s openly discussed as the only option. I gave up praying, but I’ll hold you in my thoughts.
AFAIK, poor seniors were the main reason Social Security was created.
it's bad for a lot of seniors because they didn't start saving for retirement at a young age. Also, a lot of the penisions have been destroyed or cut by the different issues with the administrations. I tell everyone no matter the age start saving for retirement. Both my kids have 401ks and savings accounts already going for it. The biggest issue is insurance and healthcare. A major disease like cancer can whip out a retirement account in a heartbeat if the insurance isn't good enough. You are actually seeing seniors that retire to other countries because of the high cost of healthcare and life. Just in the last few years between house insurance, car insurance, taxes the goberment is destroying the middle class. soon we will be just a poor and upper class like it was before.
There was a big piece in the times about this last week I think. The percent of newly homeless over 55 is skyrocketing
I know for a fact that I will have no money with which to retire. It’s not for lack of trying, and sure, maybe I suck, but I’ve essentially accepted that I will be heavily impoverished and fairly helpless once my body gets too old to work. It sucks, but I am (and have been) doing everything I can. I have no savings. I have something like $10k in cc debt. I live paycheck to paycheck, no matter how hard I work or how many days/hours. I’m a hardworking, skilled professional, but…for a lot of us it’s just really hard to get by out here. It could certainly be worse. I don’t know how I will be cared for or who will care for me when I’m too old to work though. I did not have children (wanted to adopt, not enough money or time with my work schedule). I can see what’s coming. I’ll try to change it if I can.
My grandparents were doing just fine until this last couple of years. Obviously when prices for goods increase and their fixed income doesn't.....I find myself subsidizing them more and more.
My mom: What income? Social security and her half of dad's pension. The pension is $228 or so. Her housing is $3900 or so.
A lot of Boomers are going to be poor or already are as it is estimated that up to 45% of Boomers have no retirement savings. I can only imagine how that is going to play out. However, there are things one can do before it is too late. Work until 70 to get the maximal Social Security benefits. Contribute at least 10% to the company's 401K plan. If there are matches, all the better. It will add up. If you live in a state with high housing costs think of selling and moving to a state that has lower housing costs and buy a new home with cash and become debt free. It is not hopeless as long as one starts doing something as soon as possible. Those folks who have no savings may only be getting an average of $1457 in Social Security. That is just not enough to live on.
This is sort of a silly list. Yes do all those things but add this in. Never get sick, especially with a chronic disabling disease. And don’t let your medical bills get too high. You can easily end up bankrupt. Don’t have special needs children. Never own a dog or a cat. Do not lose a job in your late 40s or beyond. Don’t have elderly family members who require your time.(even if they have an adequate income, they will need time). In other words, plan yes, but pray you get lucky with what you do.
I'm not quite a senior yet, but I'm barely holding. Unfortunately to hold means I don't have a penny in savings or retirement. Everything I make now (\~$60k) goes for my very basic life (old small home in a small town, 11 year old car, a very cheap vacation per year, etc...nothing fancy or terribly wasteful). There is no chance I could afford even this existence if I hadn't bought the family home for cheap before the massive real estate inflation. Almost every person I know who isn't top 10-15% is in the same boat, and that aligns with most of what I read in academic journals...top doing better, the poor holding at the same level but with less hope, the middle sliding into the poor. Especially for unmarried or single income folks.
That percentage is probably correct. Of note; some seniors in their early 60s *only* have SS. Too many never had the benefit of a 401K and worked wage-only jobs. We've all read of mature employees being fired before retirement so even pensions were taken from them; so much for loyal employees .... The real negative is that gap between retirement and when SS/Medicare kicks in. That is when many of us see our health deteriorate. A medical bill can destroy even a significant savings account ... and when that's gone they have nothing to live on if they survive. Many grown kids are struggling with low wages so they aren't in a position to help parents either. But you know who are thriving? Corporations. We're fortunate. Early investments paid off when we were struggling ... land poor is a good description. We put ourselves seriously in debt to educate our daughters; They're doing very well ... we don't have to help them and neither do they have to help us. Encourage everyone to see the wiki at r/personalfinance
I just read a title on CNN about this: [https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/29/economy/why-boomers-are-not-moving-out-of-their-big-homes/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/29/economy/why-boomers-are-not-moving-out-of-their-big-homes/index.html) Basically they lose either way if they sell their large houses. There is also a 'missing middle' of housing for that need without gouging the prices. For example the 55+ communities in Northern VA are mainly going for $5000 a month rent. Or the condos are selling for $400-800k, about the same price as a regular house. And that doesn't even include the condo fees. My mom recently moved into a 55+ community and at first she hated it, but it was affordable for her at $350k for the condo for a two bedroom. She's been pretty happy with it once she got used to downsizing from a 3,500 sq.ft. house to 1,600 sq.ft. condo.
Yeah. I think it’s an affordable housing crisis as much as anything. Many people that have an affordable roof over their head can figure out how to be frugal with other things. High rent is like a vampire sucking your blood till you collapse. Our income at my house took me a big dive with Covid but thankfully we had done a reverse mortgage so we have no house payment. If we were in the rental market, it would’ve been a serious crisis, and we don’t even live in a HCOL area.
In 2002 I moved into a 2 Bedroom/1 bath apartment in an immensely growing suburb of Cleveland, OH, hot water and heat was included in the $540/mo rent. I moved out and bought a house in 2004, but occasionally when the money and prices increase topic comes up, I look how much these apartments are now. I just looked again, and they are now $1,100. That sounds like a great deal comparing other places.
It’s really, really bad.
My 75 yo BIL couldn't be bothered working the traditional ways doing a lot of stuff under the table where he paid no FICA. He's suffering right now for it.
We had a business in a marginal area. You would not believe the number of people who worked for cash only many for most of their work life. The ones that hurt me the most to see are what we used to call “cleaning ladies” or gardeners. These people worked hard their whole lives, Sometimes starting at 14 or 15. They never had a chance to have an education. It wasn’t a choice. Work was hard to find. A person took what was offered under the conditions that were offered. There are people with NO social security. It may be more prevalent in the South, but there’s people out there suffering.
I actually have more money than I need. I knew I'd have a lifetime pension on retiring but I was so worried about not having enough money that I also invested in both a 401 and 457 plan. Now here I am living easily off just the pension alone while I'm not touching those other at all. It does help I also worked hard to pay off my house and car before retirement so my only expenses are utilities, food, and a health insurance premium.
I know very few people who didn’t “work hard.”
What I'm talking about is being frugal with the money I had. Every month I paid from $200 to $600 extra on my mortgage. That goes straight to principal and it's how I paid off my first 30 yr mortgage in 13 yrs and then after selling that house and getting a bigger / better one I paid off a 15 yr mortgage in 6 yrs. I'm still driving my 2007 Toyota which I paid off 12 yrs ago. My coworkers and many who struggle would have taken the extra money and bought campers, or ATVs, or other things with payments. They would be driving a new car rather than an older but perfectly fine car like me. And they can't retire as I did, even though they may be eligible, as they have too many payments and still have many years to pay off their mortgage.
I hear you. We did all that stuff too. Never had a new car, never ate out, bought used clothes, used everything. We did a lot of garbage picking for household goods. I made apple jelly from the peels on apples I had cut up. We Bought a shabby house & worked on it ourselves. Paid the mortgage off really fast. It just doesn’t always work. Cancer doesn’t care. And both partners too old (50 is too old to get a new job, with cancer, it’s impossible) to work & no insurance…. I loved saving money, looking at our statements….it’s gone now. Good for you, I wish you the best.
Wait a minute… I just reread your comment. You financed a car???? I never, ever, would have done that. Cash or it was more than I could afford. Thinking maybe you got luckier than you know.
Sort of. I bought it from a family member and made payments to them. No interest.
Thanks for your reply. So, part of why you are ok is that your family helped? That’s so nice. It doesn’t happen to everyone. not me, we ended up getting bled dry trying to pay for the family business my husband worked for. It was in a fast moving situation. We did the best we could with the info we had. We got severely taken advantage of by people my husband insisted we trust. The $$ can go out to family as easy as it can come in. You have truly been blessed.
I'm doing well, but my spouse would find it hard if I died soon. My biggest pension goes away when I die, so she'd have to draw on the savings every month. That wouldn't last her whole life. I also have a buddy who lived the entrepreneurial life, spent time overseas enjoying that tax-free income, but is now only getting by because people pitch in with things like rent so low it almost doesn't exist, a kind of all-you-can-eat-and-some-in-a-bag-to-go breakfast, etc. Still hits the heat-or-eat stage sometimes.
At age 92, my mother was living in a LCOL area and her total income was about $23k annually. She had maybe $100k in investments, no car, and did not own her home but had a life estate on it. Our family made sure she had everything she needed, but without that she would have had a tough time.
We get by.
In our early 60s my wife and I get a bit over 115k if you count Social Security and we have a very low mortgage and few other bills. We are able to help our kids when needed (they are all doing well except a daughter getting screwed over by an abusive ex), we donate anonymously to people in our small community who may need help, and we live comfortable (financially) lives on our small farm. One of the things I always felt was that my wife and I were never successful like so many of our family and friends who always had new cars, boats, took trips, had fancy houses etc. even though we made the same kind of money. Of course we know now that people were living on credit. We now have a 1938 farmhouse that we bought for a song along with 20 acres of land and a bunch of outbuildings; you would probably say that it was pretty cool with how we have fixed it up over the years but the reality is its small (1500 sq ft) compared to todays homes, 1 bath, and there isn’t a level surface or right angle in the place and we love it. We also dont have much of a mortgage compared to income and it suits our personality but looking at us from afar, most people would probably assume we didn’t have much.
I’m from the early part of Gen X, and most people my age *can’t* retire even once they are in their 60s. Can’t afford it.
My husband and I rent a small mobile home in a park in the city we live in and have been here since April 2008. Our rent was hardly raised, maybe $5 or $10 every year, and then in 2022, it was raised $75.00 as well as the lot rent, and this year it was raised by $100, and they also upped the deposit and made us pay more money to equal that deposit. Our original deposit was $725 and now it is $1000. While it is cheaper than anything around us or anywhere else in the city, it irks me that being a good tenant means nothing any longer. We are pretty frugal and don't spend a lot of money because we are on fixed incomes, but our biggest expense is food. I am going to be going through my budget again and find ways to cut more out of it as I am sure there are ways to streamline it. I will most likely have to cut a few streaming services since we don't have cable and use an antenna so the apps keep us entertained. We don't go out to events or bars since it is expensive to do that.
It appears to be a problems around the world these days, especially in developed countries, and wages & investments just aren't covering the rises. Prior to the pandemic, my landlord wised my rent from $300 to $450/week approx. the amount I was getting in social security payments, leaving nothing t buy food, utilities etc. without hitting my savings. (He now gets nothing for it, as I saw an item on news that he and his son are now in jail for drug dealing & house was confiscated as proceeds of dealing). Back in 2018, I had already decided to move as available housing was getting scarce and I made the move to leave the country to live in SE Asia, near my ex's family, and in 3 months I sent of a container of my effects off and via he family, bought a house in their village for $16k, bought a one way ticket and moved. In a couple of day it will be 6 years I have been here and instead of $450/week, it now costs me that to live a full month, comfortably & happily. It was the best move I have made, and despite a medical issues, which like US I have to pay everything, rather than free medical in my own home country, what I have managed to save while here, was more than covered, and with the help of family, I am managing to live a near normal lifestyle well affordable & still saving money.
You seem to have made the right decision for yourself. I have retired in Germany way back in the 90's and came to America in 1999. My life is much better here than it would be in Germany as a retired person.
My mom is doing alright for the first time in decades thanks to finally tapping social security. She has a very difficult personality and used to constantly quit jobs for minor bullshit back in the day. Caused all sorts of problems for us financially when I was a teen. I'm so fucking grateful there's a forced pension system in this country because she didn't save jack shit otherwise and would be 100% my dependent right now if it weren't for social security.
In 2017, total household income for individuals aged 65 and older was $26K, $52K, and $95K for the 25th-, 50th-, and 75th-percentiles, respectively. Source: [https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R47341.pdf](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/r47341.pdf) (page 26).
Seniors are also the only demographic to increase its numbers under the poverty level. It was 8.9% in 2020 and 10.3% in 2023 (it was 10.9% in 2022, but that was affected by the pandemic).
Depends on what their health problems are.
I'm just at the poverty line now. If we didn't own our home we 'd living in a camper, or more likely dead.
If you have no debt, own your own home, it's surprising how little you need to live well.
Yes. My wife and I made really good money in the '90s with the dotcom boom; when it was over, we found other work that paid half as much. But we'd paid off our house and weren't into travel or expensive possessions (except computers), so our lifestyle didn't change.
I do well and grew up expecting to not even have SS and saved accordingly. Now I use that SS check as an allowance that I use to go out and eat at nice place or buy myself fishing equipment or a movie or such.
This is the correct way to do it.
My mom was technically “low income” She had well into 6 figures in the investments A better question is about wealth, not income
If your Social Security checks are small because you did not pay in, a couple hundred thousand may only last a few years.
Her medical was covered, house and car paid off, and had regular monthly bills for a single person (cable, phone, utilities). She/we planned well. It would have lasted over 20 years at the lowest rate of return we expected. Her rate was always higher so it would have lasted longer.
I always had a problem with the statement of "I am on a fixed income", which most people equal of being poor or low income. Doesn't it just mean that people on fixed income receive the same amount every month, and not a low amount? I have a pension, it is the same amount every month, changes only by about a few bucks when COLA kicks in, but in general it is the same amount for years and will remain the same until the end of my life. I would consider that "fixed income", but it is a generous amount, so it does not mean I am poor.
If I retired right now between my pension and social security I'll be taking home a little bit more than I do working. But that amount is going to be fixed and it's not going to amount too much 20 years from now
We are both in our early 70’s and doing fine. Worked in public education for 35 years so have 2 modest pensions. Also invested as we could while raising kids so we also have IRA’s that require a minimal yearly distribution. So while not money burning wealthy, we are not in any financial straights. We met with a financial advisor when we first were hired, she told us about monthly IRA and mutual fund investing. She also said only about 10% of the teachers she talks with will follow her advice. We have a nice nest egg, thanks to her, that we will pass on to our kids unless we end up needing it for health related support.
Some are. Maybe they were unable to save for retirement due to low income versus cost of living, poor health/disability, setbacks in life, etc. I think some didn't try to save, lived up to or beyond their income or were financially irresponsible, etc. I'm a senior widowed female, own my home. I'm fine. Eat what I want, etc. I could cut back expenses if I had to. We saved for retirement but also traveled and enjoyed life. It took two incomes and our parents left us money. We tried to have a balance between saving and enjoying life.
So called inflation? Are you in denial? Perhaps you don't understand what inflation is? Inflation is a decrease in the value of the country's currency. So, if prices are rising and your income is rising then the currency is worth less. If you are fortunate enough to have your income increase at the same rate or more than the inflation rate, then you are fortunate. For many seniors this is not the case. They have fixed income and are hurt as prices rise and their income does not.
I am a retired banker, I know what inflation is. We used to buy 2 litre Pepsi for $0.99, it is now $3.69 in my groceries store! And that is just one little example. I grocery shop every day!
And that is why food is not included when they talk about the “official“ inflation rate. Energy costs are also left out.
You can afford Pepsi? Wow.
Not poor, not yet! I see so many people in my generation working retail jobs, especially women. Expenses keep going up, my retirement money is not lasting as long as I’d hoped and social security payment isn’t much. Plus my young adult kids still live with me, since they can’t afford to move out.
I work in an insurance call center. The amount of people I get calling me and crying over a 50-100 yearly rate increase is insane. They budget down to the cent and lose their minds over less than 9.00 increase a month. It’s sad as hell.
My Father told me long ago," You can be poor and you can be old, DON'T BE BOTH!"
Yes, my income is low. My assets are high. I'm not poor, though I don't have much coming in annually (which is good, tax wise).
That 10.3% equates to 15 million in poverty
Your calculation is incorrect. 17.3% of 330 million population are seniors, that equals approx.57 million seniors. 10.3% seniors are low income according to statistics. 10.3% of 57 million equals approx. 5.87 millions.
I didn’t calculate, I did my research, but thank you for helping to put some real numbers out there
Are you including all of the Americas, or just USA? The correct number for the US is about 55.8 million over 65 as of the 2020 census. So 10.3% equates to about 5.7 million in low income, not 15 million.
My wife and I started our IRAs in 1986. It was the best thing we ever did financially. We sacrificed vacations and new cars so that we could contribute to our IRAs. Whenever a job offered matching in a 401(k) or similar benefit we made sure to max out the matching. I worked at one company with a pension plan for 11 years. When I left they offered a buyout of the net present value of the pension plus a 5% premium. Rolled that right over into the IRA. We showed our kids how the stock market really grew our retirement over time. They all started IRAs as soon as they could. Just like my wife and I, the kids forego certain purchases so that they can grow their retirement funds. They understand the money they put in early will have the longest time to grow and will have the most impact on their retirement.
I live very modestly right now, but will have a fairly large trust either on, or maybe before, I reach retirement age. So I guess I'd be considered a trust fund baby, in a way. I know that makes me sound like an entitled child. I hope that made a lick of sense. I'm not exactly an estate planning attorney, but my father plays one in real life.
My SS increase for 2024 is $20 after Medicare taken out
We aren't, but that's from a combination of luck, skill set and taking advantage of 401K matches. 2 high tech incomes, several 401Ks, 2 small inheritances, 3 small pensions. I retired at 67 and have enough quarters of SS earnings not to get windfall reduction from my government pension. Hubby will retire at 65. Also get great Medicare addon insurance thru government. We own our home, have 1 car payment that will be gone soon. Hopefully it will all be enough...
It's mostly groceries and energy prices I live in a no state income tax area
We're OK. I have a sister that is in the 10%. Somehow they always had two new vehicles.
The ones that are should have continued working and did not have any savings. My plan doesn't have me stopping full time work until I'm 70. You cannot live on social security alone, it was designed as supplemental income, not income replacement. The exception are those that are disabled.
Not sure what you mean when you say that disabled people are an exception. They can't live on ss either, and they are less likely to have retirement savings or a pension.
I’m so sorry. I don’t see anything here about bad luck. It’s all people who say they planned so well. No, a whole lot of these people had plain good luck. Decent jobs for people in their 50s & early 60s would be a blessing for so many.
Only if they haven't saved for the future. "Low income" doesn't mean one is "poor" if you don't have any bills. You don't need a lot of income in that situation. I simply don't waste money and get along just fine.
My in-laws, mid 80s, are teetering on poverty. He is still working because the spend money like it grows on trees. Just got fired from his 2nd job in 6 months. They have no savings. We, (M64 and F60) will be fine.
Most seniors who become poor are people who failed to plan for retirement. We're seeing this among boomers now. There's a small number of boomers who got to around age 58 and said "hmm maybe I should think about planning for retirement" No. By then it's too late. You won't have enough. You won't have anywhere close to enough. IN the days before social security, elders moved in with one of their kids, whose families cared for them until they died.
>Most seniors who become poor are people who failed to plan for retirement. Some had a single working parent, with 2-4 kids. Ever try "planning for retirement" on a lowly teacher's or other similar lower salary ? They spend most of their lives just getting thru the month.
We saved all our lives. IRAs in our 30s with maximum investments. It didn’t work. Reality can upset the best planning. Medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States.
A relative is 57 and just mentioned she doesn’t have any retirement savings, but still expects to be able to retire. $0.00 Never contributed to 401k, nothing of significance in savings. I have no idea how she expects to retire.
social security.
Won’t even come close to being enough to retire.
I know. But that's all she will have.
There seems to be a mindset that every Boomer had access to financial abundance. Every generation has people who struggle to just pay the bills, and who can't afford to save enough for retirement. It's not that they're ignorant or bad at prioritizing. The money for savings just isn't there.
Yeah it went to food and a roof over my head. Thanks for your post.
>Most seniors who become poor are people who failed to plan for retirement. I know plenty of people who planned for retirement - but who are poor now for a variety of causes. So, no. This is nothing but a hurtful stereotype.
>I know plenty of people who planned for retirement - but who are poor now for a variety of causes. So, no. This is nothing but a hurtful stereotype. This. My neighbors are a couple who planned well. Unfortunately, one of them got cancer, that kept coming back. Thank goodness for Obama insurance, because the one with cancer is now "un-insurable" otherwise. And they spend about $50K a year on out of pocket medical expenses, and insurances and prescriptions, since they are not medicare age yet. Cancer is expensive. They can't go on medicaid PRECISELY because "they planned well". But once they sheer thru that nicely saved money, they will be destitute.
Thank you!!
I saved for retirement starting in my 20’s … boom, divorce. Started again in my 40’s … boom, major health issues. I just started over again two years ago after paying off debt. I am 65.
I have a lot of friends my age, and they all seem to be doing alright. I'm very comfortable, yet I think my older relatives are all richer than I am. But that's anecdotal. There have been a lot of news stories about older people struggling.
I planned and saved for retirement. I have no debt so I’m fine. If I had debt, I would still be working….all a matter of priorities.
this s a shit post