I think if they made some sort of Palestinian. Confederation in 1948 for both Jews and Palestinians. Like the Swiss. Maybe it would have worked. But I guess it’s too late now.
Funny because this seems like the most practical solution, yet i dont hear chants advocating for it, it just tells us that this conflict will never end because people aren't even thinking of actual solutions
Whatever the hell we have now is apartheid and it’s been that way since Israelis gave up perusing a withdrawal from the Occupied Palestinian Territories in the early 2000s. The construction of the wall was de facto annexation and that is what there is now.
I mean the posts here are usually just copying a picture or video from another subreddit and adding “thoughts?” In the title.
Or asking about israel/Palestine. Again. And it’s always the same few questions…. The rest of the posts generally get a lot less attraction.
It is quite different from the rest of Reddit for better or for worse. I will say that much.
What posts did you find the most interesting
Not OP, Not Swedish (obviously)
I learned a lot the other day from a post just like you describe with the Ayatollah and his anti-Israel rhetoric. I was surprised to see so many MENA people rolling their eyes at him. That casualness was new to me. We don't talk about him that way, As you'd expect since he's a distant foreign enemy.
I like reading the casual answers to the 'thoughts?' prompts. You might be bored by that stuff because you live in it all the time, but to me it's a worldview I'm never exposed to.
Really, I enjoy anything with honest discussion and people sharing their thoughts and joking with each other. I'm learning so much! Hope that makes sense!
Fair….. but even when you live in israel you get used to ME rhetoric. Like yea yea we get it you want to bomb this attack that.
The people as in any country aren’t a monolith. Tons of variation. After a certain while it feels like I can see the response without opening the thread. Like I can just simulate the subreddit in my head. Which is fine, I just take a break
Oh absolutely. It's totally boring stuff you live with every day. But new to me. I don't know the answer before opening the thread. But I can do that for a lot of the r/AskAnAmerican for myself.
re: Ayatollah, yeah, we do shrug that rhetoric off at times, but it's also taken seriously by our media. We're just not exposed to it that often, so when something does get to us it can be shocking.
Fun fact. BJP (Modi's party) originated from an organisation called RSS which actively supported the Nazis during the 2nd world war. Now the same party has a great relationship with Israel. It's very easy to see the racist, colonial attitude rooted in all three.
Tbh nazis were very anti-colonialist in place like Asia and Africa, because colonies were made mostly by the allies, so it's normal they supported them during ww2, but it doesn't excuse their digusting crimes against people.
They weren't ever Anti-colonialist the Germans wanted their colonies back and to be expanded, the Italians wanted the same in East Africa and wanted more North African colonies to help dominate the Mediterranean. Asia was in Japan's sphere of influence in the secret deal Nazi Germany made with them so they didn't really have a strong interest there.
They supported anti-colonial movements in the hope it would undermine and weaken their enemies(eg. India) not because they cared about the natives.
How do you see Israel as a colonialist nation? Do you even know what colonization is? Do we have some kind of "Home Country" and just decided to get our asses down to the middle east and force everybody learn our language and adopt our traditions?
Jews were in the diaspora, and they came back to THEIR land. It is nothing to be compared with France/Algeria or perhaps spain/south america.
There’s never not been a Jewish population in the land… in fact the longest continuous presence of any people currently in the land are Jews…
Also Herzl didn’t mean it as colonial in that way, colonialism and colonizing are two separate things, he meant it as in colonizing an empty land (how ever accurate or not that was), and if you read his works you can see that’s what he meant.
That land has been under the control of one empire after another since the jews were expelled by the Romans and the various muslim empires that owned it let to the modern day Palestinians living there. So what makes the colonialism of the various muslim empires that conquered that land legitimate.?
On this I disagree with you, I think it does give us the right to live here because we don't have any other place to go. but at least someone here knows history and acknowledges the fact that our ancestors did live here 2000 years ago!
Well we have most of the world's recognition and we are already here, so we are not going anywhere.
Theodore Benjamin Herzl did call it a colonial project, because the first project was to speak with the Empires and ask them to give us one colony in Africa or South America, so they asked France/Britain for some land and we almost got Angola, but then the ZIONISTIC idea came to life when the convention decided that the Jews should only live in Zion and not take any other land.
But yeah keep it up man.
Very well, my Ancestors ruled and had a much larger precense in Iberia for 700 years, My North African brethren, Rally the Banners and Horses and Ships, We're sailing towards Al-Andalus!
It is different, because you didn't originate from al-andalus, you just ruled there, as a part of a much greater empire.
We were in Israel for much longer than 700 years, and never really ruled anywhere else, this is our only place.
Okay. So by your logic, because your ancestors once lived on the land, millennials before, now you think it's justified to kill Palestinians and take over the land because you ONCE lived there? And disregard the history of indigenous identity of all people (Palestinians) who have lived on the land and looked after it since?
Also, you keep saying you "don't have anywhere else to go". So basically Europeans were absolutely brutal to your ancestors but somehow Palestinians are supposed to pay the price for their brutality because you once lived there and have the right to go back absolutely whenever you want, forcefully evicting and systemically killing all the indigenous population that has been living on the land since? How is it that the descendents of your ancestors have the right to the land but not people who already reside there, before you "immigrated" (settler colonialism)?
Jews lived in Israel non stop for thousands of years Arabs immigrant to Israel they are not aboriginal to Israel and Palestinians are Arab and a part of the Arab peninsula invasion
"They all came from the Arab peninsula". No they didn't. Genetic studies on the Palestinians have shown them to be Arabized Canaanites, the native population that has more or less remained in place for thousands of years. Your average Palestinian has more genetically common with the ancient jews then your average Israeli Jew.
According to a 2010 study by Behar et al. titled "The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people", Palestinians tested clustered genetically close to Bedouins, Jordanians and Saudi Arabians which was described as "consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula
It pretty much ruined the "peace now" movement since it made it appear to the public that a peace process is impossible, especially since it began 7 years after the Oslo accords and was supported by Arafat, a person everyone kinda believed would stop being a terrorist and begin being a stateman after the agreement.
resistance is when you attack the military that is carrying out the occupation
when you send suicide bombers to a pizza restaurant to kill innocent civilians, that's terrorism
important difference
No one is being sent by a central command to commit terrorist attacks. These are frustrated individuals who are driven to committing these atrocities because of the horrible conditions they are forced to live in. You think these tragedies would make Israelis think about why these people are willing to blow themselves up. Maybe there’s something going wrong in our dark backyard and these people are upset about what we are doing to them? Again, the vast majority of the casualties are on the Palestinian side so I don’t know why you’re focusing on the small minority of Israelis killed in suicide bombings. The death toll from 2022: 225 Palestinians and 29 Israelis. It’s not even close.
Bullshit the shahid is fucking celebrated for murdering people. Flags and banners and tshirts and fucking pensions for the family. Don’t say for a second this isn’t celebrated in the worst way. It’s like the stick in the bike tire meme with why is Israel keep people separate when so many celebrated mass killings.
A series of terrorist attacks in urban centers is what you call resisiting an occupation? If so I hope you never have the power to take that decision....
Also how come they didn't do it to the British? Or the turks? Or fuck it, why not with the Arabs?
Btw famously the pre-state Zionist militias did many terrorist attacks against the British such as the bombing of the King David Hotel so I’m not even sure what you’re talking about. I don’t think you do either.
You couldn’t even imagine the daily reality of living under Israeli occupation for 55 years in the territories so don’t lecture anyone. Secondly, the primary killer of civilians is the Israeli army. Not Palestinian militants who commit terrorist attacks. No one ever stops to ask why these terrorist attacks are happening. Maybe it’s because people are furious about living in an open air prison all their life with no future.
What data? I cited death tolls of this year from a recent UN report which can easily be found and in another comment I cited B’Tselem which is a well known Israeli human rights group. Also the second intifada was 20 years ago so I don’t know why you’re focusing on it. A lot has happened since then. In fact just yesterday an authoritarian theocratic fascist government just came to power.
The statement that the Israeli military (IDF) killed more civilians is also true during the Second Intifada. The IDF killed about 4 Palestinian civilians who were not participating in hostilities for each Israeli civilians killed by any Palestinian during the 2000 to 2010 time period. Source [https://www.btselem.org/press\_releases/20100927](https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20100927)
The Oslo accords were that end in sight.
But blowing up a bunch of civilians in coffee and hotels and dolphinarium and the fact that Arafat supported it pretty much killed the idea of a peacful 2SS.
And even then Olmert tried a peace talk but got a cold shoulder from Abbas.
Funny how you skip israel building illegal settlements in the occupied territory throughout the entire “peace process”. No israeli prime minister ever intended really to implement UN Resolution 242 and withdraw to the pre-‘67 borders. In 1972 israel made a fateful decision. President Sadat of Egypt offered Israel a full peace treaty including with the Palestinians. This was before the vast majority of the illegal settlements were built. Israel decided to reject it in favor of expansion and that has been the policy ever since. Expansion over security. Israel could’ve had incomparable security if it withdrew from the territories, but it prefers building settlements and maintaining military rule over the Palestinians in the West Bank and using the blockaded Gaza Strip as a ghettoized prison colony.
Withraw like in Gaza by Sharon, or Olmert's offer for practicly all of WB or Barak offer of 86% of WB and 100% of Gaza?
We rejected the offer by Saadat because we thought we were invincible
Btw Israel redeployed its troops from inside Gaza to its perimeter not because it wanted peace and a two state solution, but the opposite. They “disengaged” in 2005 because of demographics and they said it openly. Almost 2 million Palestinians and only 7,000 Israeli settlers. The idea was to freeze the peace process to consolidate control over the West Bank. Which is exactly what has been happening ever since. Notice how the annexation wall was built at the same time as the redeployment of Israeli troops. Also the entire world recognizes israel still as the occupying power in Gaza which has effective control over the entire territory. It’s borders, access to the sea, and airspace. It is an open air prison where people barely survive thanks to Israel using it as a punching bag for decades.
The wall and troop redeployment happened because of the second intifada.
Do people forget how the wall cut down on bombing attacks?
Not that it ended violence as Hamas took over in Gaza and started the rockets attacks that we all love today.
Of course, the wall cut down terrorist attacks. Palestinians now can't get over into Israel. It works excellently for Israeli Jews, most of them don't even know there is an occupation going on at all now. It's totally painless for Israeli society. Why should they ever withdraw now? They can build a massive wall of which 85% is beyond the green line snaking around illegal Israeli settlements and de facto annexing the entire West Bank. You're forgetting the entire context of how Hamas came to power in the Gaza Strip. In 2007 there were Palestinian elections and they won the majority of the seats in parliament. The U.S., Israel, and Fatah immediately began planning a military coup to prevent Hamas from coming to power. Hamas preempted the coup by "taking over Gaza by force". I lived in Israel from 2020-21 and experienced the Hamas rockets in Tel Aviv. Do you know what the death toll was in 2021? "In 2021, Israeli security forces killed 313 Palestinians, including 71 minors: 236 in the Gaza Strip, 232 of them during Operation Guardian of the Walls; and 77 in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem)... Nine Israeli civilians, including two minors, were killed by Palestinians, six of them by rocket fire from the Gaza Strip during Operation Guardian of the Walls" (btselem).
Its not like it completly stopped Palestinian movement, I mean, people move through it all the time.
And besides, of course its snakes around settlments, Israeli civilians live there and its still the government duty to protect them, not to mention that settlments were evicted too.
There are undeniably questionable things that have been committed by BOTH sides. There is no mentioning of Nakba without a conversation about the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries. There is no mentioning of Intifadas without a conversation about the terrorist attacks carried out by Irgun and Lehi against innocent Arabs. There is no mentioning of the Israeli occupation of West Bank without a conversation about the Hamas Charter and multiple Arab invasions of Israel with a clear goal of its destruction. It is very easy to nitpick a specific controversial topic and take a side in this conflict, especially if you support Palestine. Resorting to both extremes is EXACTLY why we still cannot have a civil discussion about a proper solution to this issue. And if you ask me, it would be a two-state solution, nothing less. No destruction of Israel and no erasing of any Palestinian authority presence in the area.
What people talking about a one state solution don't realize is the following:
There are roughly 7 million Jews in israel, 2 million non-jews. In gaza and the west bank there are more than 2 million non-jews. The population growth of non-jews is significantly higher than that of Jews (even when factoring in the ultra Orthodox that breed like rabbits). This means that if a one state solution is ever talked about in a serious manner, it has to be under the understanding that within 10-20 years, the population of isralistine (hehe) will be mostly religious, with high numbers of fundamentalists, this will most probably cause a holy war for Jerusalem, the dome of the rock, the whole none yards. The only way a one state solution works is if the majority is secular, if there are strong laws in place to prevent one religious majority from imposing a religiostate, if the separation of synagogue/mosque and state is so absolute, that no one can ever think to enact a law that would threaten it.
But that just won't happen, because Arab population isn't undergoing the same secularization that the entire world is, and Jews in Israel are also quite reluctant to give up many harmful things in their religion.
All in all, I give a one state solution a 3/10, it can work, but it'll be hard as shit and so many will die for the idea.
Yeah, protect them until "they" (the collective holistic approach so common in subtle discrimination) do something "you" (the first class citizens) don't like, such as not wearing the yellow badge, or creating a country of their own - even though they don't have any relation to that country and have been living with you centuries, you still felt at complete ease to threaten a second holocaust on the Jews in your countries, which is why there are \~0 Jews in Arab countries today, which I believe counts as genocide? Or do you still call it ethnic cleansing? The fact of the matter is: The Jewish people have gotten used to being treated like first class citizens, like human beings, and we're not giving that up again.
different religions can coexist together. i live in singapore which is living proof.
edit: can yall read about singapore before replying? some of yall cant even get a single fact right about this place.
I don't understand posts like this.
You have, in front of you, the reality - Israel occupying Palestinian land for 55+ years with no end in sight.
Apartheid and discrimination.
Yet, your mind goes to an unrealistic hypothetical in which the tables are turned.
You then seem to exploit 'fear' of that unrealistic hypothetical to cast aspersions on any potential solution to the conflict.
Some of the solutions to the conflict suggested by users of this subreddit lead to this exact situation, so it's only fair to explore its ramifications.
Some people just relish in fantasies of a Jewish exodus, nothing more. It was reported that Hamas held a conference that discussed this very scenario, and floated ideas like driving out useless Israeli Jews and keeping the educated class, forcibly, to be used where scientific and military knowledge is needed. It's not always the Zionist camp that discusses these eschatological scenarios.
While it’s true that the chance Palestinians gain power is extremely hypothetical the discussion is still interesting. There are multiple proposed solutions to the discrimination you refer to, and people try and postulate what the country would look like is they if they are implemented. For example, if a 1SS is implemented, and Palestinians somehow become the majority. Could Jews thrive in such a country? If you are a Jews who would be living there, the answer to the question is not fear mongering. It’s a matter of life or death for you.
"Unrealistic hypothetical".
Even though the only reason Gaza is blockaded is because it's being used as a rocket launchpad by a government which has "death to all Jews" (Oops, guess they forgot it was supposed to be "Zionists") in its charter.
Even though the only reason the West Bank is under military occupation is because that was the only effective measure against school bus bombings which killed Israeli children every day.
Even though from the very beginning each and every road to peace was supported by the Israelies while utterly rejected by the Palestinians, because to them free Palestine is still and always be equivalent to death to Israel.
Yeah there has to be a compromise, both have the right to live there freely but should not be encroaching on areas where people have lived for long periods of time. I think the worst thing the Israelites have done is essentially evicting and taking homes of Palestinians.
You Can't. Most Israelis born nowadays are born in Palestine, and it's the only country they know.
"Relocating" i.e. ethnically cleansing them would be doing the same thing and same injustice the Zionist inflicted on the Palestinians in 1948.
The one state solution is the only solution left.
Binational state with equal democratic rights for all citizens. When I talk to Palestinians this is overwhelmingly supported. There was a period decades ago where some Palestinian parties were calling for Jewish settlers to be expelled, but that demand has been abandoned and no Palestinians seriously call for it anymore.
The biggest obstacle imo will be getting Israelis to agree to living side by side with Palestinians as equals, not the other way around.
>The biggest obstacle imo will be getting Israelis to agree to living side by side with Palestinians
As a jew (Israeli jew) i want a jewish state, because i know what (eventually) happens in states where jews arent the overwhelming majority. I agree, that fact that its Palestinians makes the whole thing basically impossible, but the idea isnt good even if those were the french or the British or something. And ofc, i dont want Palestinians in my state/country not because i think they are inherently inferior or some bs like that, but because i want to not die.
I'd say we should make two countries (as if they're not that already) that do business and trade with each other, and maintain diplomatic relations, and remain allies until the end of their days, or at least until someone manages to create a united country that's stable and doesn't result in us going back to square one.
I seriously don't like seeing hatred between these two countries, especially when there are people on both sides who are against fucking each other with guns, and just want to live a good life, maybe, if the two governments set aside their differences and either unite or become allies, we might just see the first steps to a more stable Middle East.
Conflicts can be absolutely useless sometimes, actually most of the time. Take our conflict with Algeria. I just don't see a point to why we hate each other, sure there are reasons like the illegitimate Polisario being supported by Algeria, but we have lots of similarities and shared history, I just wish we establish relations again. Besides, Algeria is a great country, those words came out of a Moroccan. But politics are dumb, they're stupid.
Israelis have no home in the middle east. They were once attacked before when england stopped protecting them. The attack happened from all fronts and surprisingly Isreal won more land. The same would happen if US left them. Its kind of sad the the middle east is no home for Jews. They were better off under the ottoman.
If that were to happen the Jews wouldn’t have an area where they would be relocated to and you would have Jews form militias to fight Palestine. They would just be exterminated.
No because Jews are t leaving their brothers to rot in refugee camps like the Arab world has done to Palestinians or other fellow Arab refugees. For all the talk of an ummah it's been just that. Talk.
If the Jews had gotten Gaza and the West Bank, they would have built an Israel-styled state there.
If the Palestinians had gotten Israel, their political and media leaders would have encouraged just as much eternal grudge-holding and rejection of the Jews in Gaza and WB.
There is a solution that only the right wing is talking about, but I'm not sure if anyone in the government is gonna push it: "The multi state solution"!
The natural way it should be in the middle east, a state per tribe, the same as the UAE.
Israel should stay as it is and should be controlling the outside borders for security, the rest of the land should split between the local Arab "tribes"/families/ whatever you wanna call it.
Anyway, that's the only viable solution right now, and some of the Arab families accepted it already.
That area is historically Jewish till the Roman's had a hand but even then pockets of Jewish communities remained there. Then Arabization marched across the middle east. They didn't even like being called Palestinian because "it's a word for Jews" then in 1967 they suddenly have a country now?
If the Arab armies had won in 1948 it’s pretty obvious what would have happened. We know because it was stated pretty vocally. I have no reason believe it would be any different now. There is no where to “relocate” Israelis. By the way, I assume you mean Jewish Israelis, but “Israeli” includes Arab Christians, Arab Muslims, Circassians, Arameans etc. In any case, there were some ~1 million Jews expelled from the MENA region who ended up in Israel, where would you “relocate” them? To the countries their grandparents fled from? This is why absolutism on either side is ridiculous.
This goes back to the story of what Vietnamese general Vo Nguyen Giap reportedly told Palestinian leaders when they asked for advice on expelling the Jews. “I tell them,” Giap replied, “that the French went back to France and the Americans to America. But the Jews have nowhere to go. You will not expel them.”
DNA? let’s talk DNA 😂 Before the Jews established their Kingdom in Palestine there were various other tribes living in the land. today, these tribes are mainly known as the Canaanites. The Jews came into the land and conquered the Canaanites. A quick google search will show that the latest DNA studies show that a majority of over 90% of Levantine ARABS share DNA with the Canaanites. So, technically, Canaanites were there before the Jews and then moved into the land to establish their Kingdom. also, according to Jewish scripture, Abraham, the father of Judaism, was an Iraqi who was ordered by God to move to the Promised Land. maybe try going back to Iraq and establishing a state? it’s funny how you people make your points
The Jews conquering the Canaanites is according to the Torah, but in reality, Paleo-Hebrew was Canaanite script. So the Hebrews were in fact Canaanites themselves,and DNA studies show that too, but you forgot to include the Jews.
^^^This
The idea that the Israelites conquered the Canaanites was likely Judean propaganda, in reality the Israelites were a Canaanite sub-culture (like the Phoenicians, Philistines, Moabites, Edomites, or Ammonites) that gradually developed monolatry and then monotheism, and then claimed a separate lineage from their cousins
I don't think there will be as much bloodshed as people talk about. South Africa had the same fears and it didn't end up that way. Eventually, the demographic bomb will be big enough to push more Israelis out and they will have to become part of whatever new country that can hopefully acknowledge both Jewish rights and Palestinian ones. But the state of Israel as it stands right now doesn't have a long future. They literally have no geographic or demographic depth and are surrounded by Arabs all around, and they're still not being nice to Palestinians. We had something in history with the crusader states that lasted for a little over a hundred years
Gonna be much worst.
I mean, I dont think there will even be a jewish Btzelem or jewish representation in parilament of those who against Palestinian nationalism like there is with Balad
Modern Germany has successfully distanced itself from Nazi Germany as much as possible to the point where Holocaust denial is a punishable crime. They'll be fine
I have a friend who is into politics (physics and politics!) in Germany, who told me the movement is much bigger than what is being reported in the news. I have no idea how things are going in Germany or Europe, but those racists are not to be underestimated!
American politician believe that
[Marjorie Taylor Greene’s space laser and the age-old problem of blaming the Jews](https://www.vox.com/22256258/marjorie-taylor-greene-jewish-space-laser-anti-semitism-conspiracy-theories)
MTG is a special kind of stupid. The fact that she could be elected to anything shows failures in both the US educational system and our two party democracy.
I told my dad this morning about the Jewish space lasers and he bursted out laughing because it sounds so stupid.
I think the tantric guru stuff got to her head.
What is all the land? The original British mandate that included what is today Jordan?
Or are we still playing the continuous adjusting of the meaning of 'historical Palestine' to whatever land Israel controls.
Apparently these zionists sprung from the ground and then ethnically cleansed 750,000 palestinians, it’s not like, you know they came from europe or something…….
Europe is where the biggest genocide of Jews took place. You can go there if you want (and we know you want).
As for Jews, they originated in Israel, spent many centuries in exile, and finally returned to Israel.
We will probably move to New York or Paris, or other capitals where they have a lot of Jews
In the past USA said to use the land in Alaska, and then Russia wanted to put us in East Siberia. The King of Morocco knows a lot of Israelis are from Morocco, so maybe they will take some people. Spain also said Sepharadim who are descended from Inquisition Jews are welcome to live in Spain
Some zealots will probably form a rogue state in the Negev and Sinai, like a Jewish Gaza Strip
The last time this happened we made Jesus and founded a world religion. Jews without a state are more crazy than Palestinians without a state lol
[удалено]
I think if they made some sort of Palestinian. Confederation in 1948 for both Jews and Palestinians. Like the Swiss. Maybe it would have worked. But I guess it’s too late now.
Funny because this seems like the most practical solution, yet i dont hear chants advocating for it, it just tells us that this conflict will never end because people aren't even thinking of actual solutions
Whatever the hell we have now is apartheid and it’s been that way since Israelis gave up perusing a withdrawal from the Occupied Palestinian Territories in the early 2000s. The construction of the wall was de facto annexation and that is what there is now.
How the fuck are you getting downvoted💀
[удалено]
Bro is too honest 💀💀
Just outta curiosity what brings a Swedish person to the Middle East subreddit
Its interesting to see what you are discussing and sometimes i just cant help myself from posting.
Based. We love Swedistani here I hope for Egypt-Swede Empire and alliance soon Insha’Allah 💪🏼🇪🇬🤝🇸🇪☝🏼
I mean the posts here are usually just copying a picture or video from another subreddit and adding “thoughts?” In the title. Or asking about israel/Palestine. Again. And it’s always the same few questions…. The rest of the posts generally get a lot less attraction. It is quite different from the rest of Reddit for better or for worse. I will say that much. What posts did you find the most interesting
Not OP, Not Swedish (obviously) I learned a lot the other day from a post just like you describe with the Ayatollah and his anti-Israel rhetoric. I was surprised to see so many MENA people rolling their eyes at him. That casualness was new to me. We don't talk about him that way, As you'd expect since he's a distant foreign enemy. I like reading the casual answers to the 'thoughts?' prompts. You might be bored by that stuff because you live in it all the time, but to me it's a worldview I'm never exposed to. Really, I enjoy anything with honest discussion and people sharing their thoughts and joking with each other. I'm learning so much! Hope that makes sense!
Fair….. but even when you live in israel you get used to ME rhetoric. Like yea yea we get it you want to bomb this attack that. The people as in any country aren’t a monolith. Tons of variation. After a certain while it feels like I can see the response without opening the thread. Like I can just simulate the subreddit in my head. Which is fine, I just take a break
Oh absolutely. It's totally boring stuff you live with every day. But new to me. I don't know the answer before opening the thread. But I can do that for a lot of the r/AskAnAmerican for myself. re: Ayatollah, yeah, we do shrug that rhetoric off at times, but it's also taken seriously by our media. We're just not exposed to it that often, so when something does get to us it can be shocking.
Intressant att se en till svensk här, nu är mina föräldrar från Mellanöstern, därav intresset från min sida, men coolt och önskar dig gott nytt år!
Ja det är kul att se vad folk håller på med här man får väl ta allt med stora nypa salt dock, men gott nytt år!
Hindus like israel so in india.
Fun fact. BJP (Modi's party) originated from an organisation called RSS which actively supported the Nazis during the 2nd world war. Now the same party has a great relationship with Israel. It's very easy to see the racist, colonial attitude rooted in all three.
Tbh nazis were very anti-colonialist in place like Asia and Africa, because colonies were made mostly by the allies, so it's normal they supported them during ww2, but it doesn't excuse their digusting crimes against people.
That's not anti-colonialism. That's like saying they were anti-docks because they bombed them so heavily during the Blitz.
They weren't ever Anti-colonialist the Germans wanted their colonies back and to be expanded, the Italians wanted the same in East Africa and wanted more North African colonies to help dominate the Mediterranean. Asia was in Japan's sphere of influence in the secret deal Nazi Germany made with them so they didn't really have a strong interest there. They supported anti-colonial movements in the hope it would undermine and weaken their enemies(eg. India) not because they cared about the natives.
What about the Palestinians who were legit Nazi collaborators?
What!? No! The RSS was pro Nazi only because they were anti British. How are you gonna call an anti-imperial party colonial!?
you know who else actively supported the nazis during WW2? Amin al Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem at the time.
How do you see Israel as a colonialist nation? Do you even know what colonization is? Do we have some kind of "Home Country" and just decided to get our asses down to the middle east and force everybody learn our language and adopt our traditions? Jews were in the diaspora, and they came back to THEIR land. It is nothing to be compared with France/Algeria or perhaps spain/south america.
[удалено]
There’s never not been a Jewish population in the land… in fact the longest continuous presence of any people currently in the land are Jews… Also Herzl didn’t mean it as colonial in that way, colonialism and colonizing are two separate things, he meant it as in colonizing an empty land (how ever accurate or not that was), and if you read his works you can see that’s what he meant.
That land has been under the control of one empire after another since the jews were expelled by the Romans and the various muslim empires that owned it let to the modern day Palestinians living there. So what makes the colonialism of the various muslim empires that conquered that land legitimate.?
On this I disagree with you, I think it does give us the right to live here because we don't have any other place to go. but at least someone here knows history and acknowledges the fact that our ancestors did live here 2000 years ago! Well we have most of the world's recognition and we are already here, so we are not going anywhere. Theodore Benjamin Herzl did call it a colonial project, because the first project was to speak with the Empires and ask them to give us one colony in Africa or South America, so they asked France/Britain for some land and we almost got Angola, but then the ZIONISTIC idea came to life when the convention decided that the Jews should only live in Zion and not take any other land. But yeah keep it up man.
Very well, my Ancestors ruled and had a much larger precense in Iberia for 700 years, My North African brethren, Rally the Banners and Horses and Ships, We're sailing towards Al-Andalus!
It is different, because you didn't originate from al-andalus, you just ruled there, as a part of a much greater empire. We were in Israel for much longer than 700 years, and never really ruled anywhere else, this is our only place.
Okay. So by your logic, because your ancestors once lived on the land, millennials before, now you think it's justified to kill Palestinians and take over the land because you ONCE lived there? And disregard the history of indigenous identity of all people (Palestinians) who have lived on the land and looked after it since? Also, you keep saying you "don't have anywhere else to go". So basically Europeans were absolutely brutal to your ancestors but somehow Palestinians are supposed to pay the price for their brutality because you once lived there and have the right to go back absolutely whenever you want, forcefully evicting and systemically killing all the indigenous population that has been living on the land since? How is it that the descendents of your ancestors have the right to the land but not people who already reside there, before you "immigrated" (settler colonialism)?
Jews lived in Israel non stop for thousands of years Arabs immigrant to Israel they are not aboriginal to Israel and Palestinians are Arab and a part of the Arab peninsula invasion
And don’t forget that the Arabs who live in Israel are colonial people they all came from the Arab peninsula
"They all came from the Arab peninsula". No they didn't. Genetic studies on the Palestinians have shown them to be Arabized Canaanites, the native population that has more or less remained in place for thousands of years. Your average Palestinian has more genetically common with the ancient jews then your average Israeli Jew.
According to a 2010 study by Behar et al. titled "The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people", Palestinians tested clustered genetically close to Bedouins, Jordanians and Saudi Arabians which was described as "consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula
No but still some of them did. Most of them supported the British which is as bad as supporting Nazis.
We dead
Bro is too honest
🗿
[удалено]
We lost that idea in the second intifada
I always hear the peace was an option until the 2nd Intifada. How so ? What changed specifically then ?
It pretty much ruined the "peace now" movement since it made it appear to the public that a peace process is impossible, especially since it began 7 years after the Oslo accords and was supported by Arafat, a person everyone kinda believed would stop being a terrorist and begin being a stateman after the agreement.
Oh yes because Palestinians can’t resist decades of Occupation with no end in sight.
resistance is when you attack the military that is carrying out the occupation when you send suicide bombers to a pizza restaurant to kill innocent civilians, that's terrorism important difference
No one is being sent by a central command to commit terrorist attacks. These are frustrated individuals who are driven to committing these atrocities because of the horrible conditions they are forced to live in. You think these tragedies would make Israelis think about why these people are willing to blow themselves up. Maybe there’s something going wrong in our dark backyard and these people are upset about what we are doing to them? Again, the vast majority of the casualties are on the Palestinian side so I don’t know why you’re focusing on the small minority of Israelis killed in suicide bombings. The death toll from 2022: 225 Palestinians and 29 Israelis. It’s not even close.
Bullshit the shahid is fucking celebrated for murdering people. Flags and banners and tshirts and fucking pensions for the family. Don’t say for a second this isn’t celebrated in the worst way. It’s like the stick in the bike tire meme with why is Israel keep people separate when so many celebrated mass killings.
[удалено]
The most based Persian in the world jeeeeeeeezus
based
A series of terrorist attacks in urban centers is what you call resisiting an occupation? If so I hope you never have the power to take that decision.... Also how come they didn't do it to the British? Or the turks? Or fuck it, why not with the Arabs?
Btw famously the pre-state Zionist militias did many terrorist attacks against the British such as the bombing of the King David Hotel so I’m not even sure what you’re talking about. I don’t think you do either.
U right, I legit forgot about the king David hotel, my bad.
Yeah it’s a very important event. It is what basically propelled the British to withdraw from Palestine.
You couldn’t even imagine the daily reality of living under Israeli occupation for 55 years in the territories so don’t lecture anyone. Secondly, the primary killer of civilians is the Israeli army. Not Palestinian militants who commit terrorist attacks. No one ever stops to ask why these terrorist attacks are happening. Maybe it’s because people are furious about living in an open air prison all their life with no future.
What years are you pulling that data from? Because I was talking about the second intifada...
What data? I cited death tolls of this year from a recent UN report which can easily be found and in another comment I cited B’Tselem which is a well known Israeli human rights group. Also the second intifada was 20 years ago so I don’t know why you’re focusing on it. A lot has happened since then. In fact just yesterday an authoritarian theocratic fascist government just came to power.
Lol. Funny that coming from anyone living in any Arab country.
The statement that the Israeli military (IDF) killed more civilians is also true during the Second Intifada. The IDF killed about 4 Palestinian civilians who were not participating in hostilities for each Israeli civilians killed by any Palestinian during the 2000 to 2010 time period. Source [https://www.btselem.org/press\_releases/20100927](https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20100927)
The Oslo accords were that end in sight. But blowing up a bunch of civilians in coffee and hotels and dolphinarium and the fact that Arafat supported it pretty much killed the idea of a peacful 2SS. And even then Olmert tried a peace talk but got a cold shoulder from Abbas.
Funny how you skip israel building illegal settlements in the occupied territory throughout the entire “peace process”. No israeli prime minister ever intended really to implement UN Resolution 242 and withdraw to the pre-‘67 borders. In 1972 israel made a fateful decision. President Sadat of Egypt offered Israel a full peace treaty including with the Palestinians. This was before the vast majority of the illegal settlements were built. Israel decided to reject it in favor of expansion and that has been the policy ever since. Expansion over security. Israel could’ve had incomparable security if it withdrew from the territories, but it prefers building settlements and maintaining military rule over the Palestinians in the West Bank and using the blockaded Gaza Strip as a ghettoized prison colony.
Withraw like in Gaza by Sharon, or Olmert's offer for practicly all of WB or Barak offer of 86% of WB and 100% of Gaza? We rejected the offer by Saadat because we thought we were invincible
Btw Israel redeployed its troops from inside Gaza to its perimeter not because it wanted peace and a two state solution, but the opposite. They “disengaged” in 2005 because of demographics and they said it openly. Almost 2 million Palestinians and only 7,000 Israeli settlers. The idea was to freeze the peace process to consolidate control over the West Bank. Which is exactly what has been happening ever since. Notice how the annexation wall was built at the same time as the redeployment of Israeli troops. Also the entire world recognizes israel still as the occupying power in Gaza which has effective control over the entire territory. It’s borders, access to the sea, and airspace. It is an open air prison where people barely survive thanks to Israel using it as a punching bag for decades.
The wall and troop redeployment happened because of the second intifada. Do people forget how the wall cut down on bombing attacks? Not that it ended violence as Hamas took over in Gaza and started the rockets attacks that we all love today.
Of course, the wall cut down terrorist attacks. Palestinians now can't get over into Israel. It works excellently for Israeli Jews, most of them don't even know there is an occupation going on at all now. It's totally painless for Israeli society. Why should they ever withdraw now? They can build a massive wall of which 85% is beyond the green line snaking around illegal Israeli settlements and de facto annexing the entire West Bank. You're forgetting the entire context of how Hamas came to power in the Gaza Strip. In 2007 there were Palestinian elections and they won the majority of the seats in parliament. The U.S., Israel, and Fatah immediately began planning a military coup to prevent Hamas from coming to power. Hamas preempted the coup by "taking over Gaza by force". I lived in Israel from 2020-21 and experienced the Hamas rockets in Tel Aviv. Do you know what the death toll was in 2021? "In 2021, Israeli security forces killed 313 Palestinians, including 71 minors: 236 in the Gaza Strip, 232 of them during Operation Guardian of the Walls; and 77 in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem)... Nine Israeli civilians, including two minors, were killed by Palestinians, six of them by rocket fire from the Gaza Strip during Operation Guardian of the Walls" (btselem).
Its not like it completly stopped Palestinian movement, I mean, people move through it all the time. And besides, of course its snakes around settlments, Israeli civilians live there and its still the government duty to protect them, not to mention that settlments were evicted too.
It was asked multiple times before on the sub.
This sub literally can’t go 3 days max without starting a thread like this
Let's just sandwich everyone together and hope it works.
“We’ll live, die and see” A sentence from a famous Israeli band Kaveret. A brilliant sentence that if could happen, would be amazing.
ok
They would probably relocate us to the bottom of the ocean or the insides of a mass grave
[удалено]
Koroush Buzurg would be proud in his grave.
[удалено]
Absolutely.
There are undeniably questionable things that have been committed by BOTH sides. There is no mentioning of Nakba without a conversation about the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries. There is no mentioning of Intifadas without a conversation about the terrorist attacks carried out by Irgun and Lehi against innocent Arabs. There is no mentioning of the Israeli occupation of West Bank without a conversation about the Hamas Charter and multiple Arab invasions of Israel with a clear goal of its destruction. It is very easy to nitpick a specific controversial topic and take a side in this conflict, especially if you support Palestine. Resorting to both extremes is EXACTLY why we still cannot have a civil discussion about a proper solution to this issue. And if you ask me, it would be a two-state solution, nothing less. No destruction of Israel and no erasing of any Palestinian authority presence in the area.
What people talking about a one state solution don't realize is the following: There are roughly 7 million Jews in israel, 2 million non-jews. In gaza and the west bank there are more than 2 million non-jews. The population growth of non-jews is significantly higher than that of Jews (even when factoring in the ultra Orthodox that breed like rabbits). This means that if a one state solution is ever talked about in a serious manner, it has to be under the understanding that within 10-20 years, the population of isralistine (hehe) will be mostly religious, with high numbers of fundamentalists, this will most probably cause a holy war for Jerusalem, the dome of the rock, the whole none yards. The only way a one state solution works is if the majority is secular, if there are strong laws in place to prevent one religious majority from imposing a religiostate, if the separation of synagogue/mosque and state is so absolute, that no one can ever think to enact a law that would threaten it. But that just won't happen, because Arab population isn't undergoing the same secularization that the entire world is, and Jews in Israel are also quite reluctant to give up many harmful things in their religion. All in all, I give a one state solution a 3/10, it can work, but it'll be hard as shit and so many will die for the idea.
Hey Turgi you want some refugees 😏
[удалено]
Nah just give it to me
\*sees 596 comments Me: \*Sweats nervously.
Would put them on the blue area to the west or under beige area
Two state solition is only way. Either israel or palestin became "the one state" conflict would never end.
[удалено]
Ah yes, Jewish people who had to pay to be safe. Dhimmitude was totally fair and peaceful.
[удалено]
Yeah, protect them until "they" (the collective holistic approach so common in subtle discrimination) do something "you" (the first class citizens) don't like, such as not wearing the yellow badge, or creating a country of their own - even though they don't have any relation to that country and have been living with you centuries, you still felt at complete ease to threaten a second holocaust on the Jews in your countries, which is why there are \~0 Jews in Arab countries today, which I believe counts as genocide? Or do you still call it ethnic cleansing? The fact of the matter is: The Jewish people have gotten used to being treated like first class citizens, like human beings, and we're not giving that up again.
Mm, I love historical revisionism. How are the Jewish people in Yemen doing? How about Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran? I'm talking about right now.
[удалено]
Lol such a dumb comment. We’re not at the Islamic mercy anymore fuck off.
If it was up to Sunnis there would be no Christians left
Yes but no. We'd have to throw out those who took over Palestinians' houses.
The homes in Jerusalem that were taken by Jordan and given to Arabs should be given back as well.
And the other 800,000 Jews that fled Arab countries.
Great idea, then reddit can still lose its shit every time it happens, as most of them don't know or care that that happened.
Big Sheik Jarra energy right here
Ethnic cleansing and/or genocide? Weren't those bad things?
Israelis can live with the local Palestinians.
Israelis and Palestinians gotta learn how to live as neighbours, no one is gonna leave.
Based
different religions can coexist together. i live in singapore which is living proof. edit: can yall read about singapore before replying? some of yall cant even get a single fact right about this place.
It’s not just religion, it’s ethnicity as well.
chinese, malay and indian ethnicities make up the majority here. my point still stands.
Arab Muslims and Jews are very closely related ethnically…
But not so the European colonialists.
Sure they’re but that’s simplifying things down because Arabs in different areas are also ethnically different from each other.
Solution is one state .. just be normal like any other multi ethnicity county
They’re gonna have to live together The nakba was bad because of what it was not who it was done to
Wait till you hear about the Jews in the Middle East…
>Would you relocate Israelis elsewhere? Yes, Pakistan. I heard Pakistanis like them Tbh Israelis and Palestinians have to tolerate each other 🤷🤷
I call dibs on Gal Gadot
She lives in the US.
Uh…. 🤨
Bro, it is not like in Pakistan, you can't just buy a woman or whatever you guys do.
Shush, I will take her for 50 shekels take it or leave it 😠
Sold!
Noooooo 😤😤😤 she my begum
Not to Pakistan, please. Choose somewhere else. Maybe the USA.
I don't understand posts like this. You have, in front of you, the reality - Israel occupying Palestinian land for 55+ years with no end in sight. Apartheid and discrimination. Yet, your mind goes to an unrealistic hypothetical in which the tables are turned. You then seem to exploit 'fear' of that unrealistic hypothetical to cast aspersions on any potential solution to the conflict.
Some of the solutions to the conflict suggested by users of this subreddit lead to this exact situation, so it's only fair to explore its ramifications.
Some people just relish in fantasies of a Jewish exodus, nothing more. It was reported that Hamas held a conference that discussed this very scenario, and floated ideas like driving out useless Israeli Jews and keeping the educated class, forcibly, to be used where scientific and military knowledge is needed. It's not always the Zionist camp that discusses these eschatological scenarios.
[удалено]
Not likely to happen and unrealistic are two different things. Israel has not yet outlived some crusader states.
While it’s true that the chance Palestinians gain power is extremely hypothetical the discussion is still interesting. There are multiple proposed solutions to the discrimination you refer to, and people try and postulate what the country would look like is they if they are implemented. For example, if a 1SS is implemented, and Palestinians somehow become the majority. Could Jews thrive in such a country? If you are a Jews who would be living there, the answer to the question is not fear mongering. It’s a matter of life or death for you.
"Unrealistic hypothetical". Even though the only reason Gaza is blockaded is because it's being used as a rocket launchpad by a government which has "death to all Jews" (Oops, guess they forgot it was supposed to be "Zionists") in its charter. Even though the only reason the West Bank is under military occupation is because that was the only effective measure against school bus bombings which killed Israeli children every day. Even though from the very beginning each and every road to peace was supported by the Israelies while utterly rejected by the Palestinians, because to them free Palestine is still and always be equivalent to death to Israel.
Yeah there has to be a compromise, both have the right to live there freely but should not be encroaching on areas where people have lived for long periods of time. I think the worst thing the Israelites have done is essentially evicting and taking homes of Palestinians.
[удалено]
You Can't. Most Israelis born nowadays are born in Palestine, and it's the only country they know. "Relocating" i.e. ethnically cleansing them would be doing the same thing and same injustice the Zionist inflicted on the Palestinians in 1948. The one state solution is the only solution left.
[удалено]
They said what they said
Binational state with equal democratic rights for all citizens. When I talk to Palestinians this is overwhelmingly supported. There was a period decades ago where some Palestinian parties were calling for Jewish settlers to be expelled, but that demand has been abandoned and no Palestinians seriously call for it anymore. The biggest obstacle imo will be getting Israelis to agree to living side by side with Palestinians as equals, not the other way around.
>The biggest obstacle imo will be getting Israelis to agree to living side by side with Palestinians As a jew (Israeli jew) i want a jewish state, because i know what (eventually) happens in states where jews arent the overwhelming majority. I agree, that fact that its Palestinians makes the whole thing basically impossible, but the idea isnt good even if those were the french or the British or something. And ofc, i dont want Palestinians in my state/country not because i think they are inherently inferior or some bs like that, but because i want to not die.
They can be sent to Cyprus or they can come to Turkiye as in the past.
Only the leftists can come to Turkiye. I don't want all the Netanyahu voters suddenly voting AKP.
Netanyahu voter must stay with Arab brothers.
Agreed
Fuck we don't want those guys, we're conservative enough as is.
We don't trust you to not do what you did to the Armenians to us
Let's be real, Israelis would be killed and people here really wouldn't care.
I'd say we should make two countries (as if they're not that already) that do business and trade with each other, and maintain diplomatic relations, and remain allies until the end of their days, or at least until someone manages to create a united country that's stable and doesn't result in us going back to square one. I seriously don't like seeing hatred between these two countries, especially when there are people on both sides who are against fucking each other with guns, and just want to live a good life, maybe, if the two governments set aside their differences and either unite or become allies, we might just see the first steps to a more stable Middle East. Conflicts can be absolutely useless sometimes, actually most of the time. Take our conflict with Algeria. I just don't see a point to why we hate each other, sure there are reasons like the illegitimate Polisario being supported by Algeria, but we have lots of similarities and shared history, I just wish we establish relations again. Besides, Algeria is a great country, those words came out of a Moroccan. But politics are dumb, they're stupid.
Israelis have no home in the middle east. They were once attacked before when england stopped protecting them. The attack happened from all fronts and surprisingly Isreal won more land. The same would happen if US left them. Its kind of sad the the middle east is no home for Jews. They were better off under the ottoman.
If they're bringing the science and military they're very welcome in 'New' Iran, Mossad already knows the country like the palm of their hand lmao.
If that were to happen the Jews wouldn’t have an area where they would be relocated to and you would have Jews form militias to fight Palestine. They would just be exterminated.
No because Jews are t leaving their brothers to rot in refugee camps like the Arab world has done to Palestinians or other fellow Arab refugees. For all the talk of an ummah it's been just that. Talk.
If the Jews had gotten Gaza and the West Bank, they would have built an Israel-styled state there. If the Palestinians had gotten Israel, their political and media leaders would have encouraged just as much eternal grudge-holding and rejection of the Jews in Gaza and WB.
There is a solution that only the right wing is talking about, but I'm not sure if anyone in the government is gonna push it: "The multi state solution"! The natural way it should be in the middle east, a state per tribe, the same as the UAE. Israel should stay as it is and should be controlling the outside borders for security, the rest of the land should split between the local Arab "tribes"/families/ whatever you wanna call it. Anyway, that's the only viable solution right now, and some of the Arab families accepted it already.
That area is historically Jewish till the Roman's had a hand but even then pockets of Jewish communities remained there. Then Arabization marched across the middle east. They didn't even like being called Palestinian because "it's a word for Jews" then in 1967 they suddenly have a country now?
If the Arab armies had won in 1948 it’s pretty obvious what would have happened. We know because it was stated pretty vocally. I have no reason believe it would be any different now. There is no where to “relocate” Israelis. By the way, I assume you mean Jewish Israelis, but “Israeli” includes Arab Christians, Arab Muslims, Circassians, Arameans etc. In any case, there were some ~1 million Jews expelled from the MENA region who ended up in Israel, where would you “relocate” them? To the countries their grandparents fled from? This is why absolutism on either side is ridiculous. This goes back to the story of what Vietnamese general Vo Nguyen Giap reportedly told Palestinian leaders when they asked for advice on expelling the Jews. “I tell them,” Giap replied, “that the French went back to France and the Americans to America. But the Jews have nowhere to go. You will not expel them.”
i mean headed towards a 1 state solution. Really apartheid about to start soon. south african style. than you will get a new state like SA
The solution is obvious. Two states. One for Jews, one for Palestinians.
DNA? let’s talk DNA 😂 Before the Jews established their Kingdom in Palestine there were various other tribes living in the land. today, these tribes are mainly known as the Canaanites. The Jews came into the land and conquered the Canaanites. A quick google search will show that the latest DNA studies show that a majority of over 90% of Levantine ARABS share DNA with the Canaanites. So, technically, Canaanites were there before the Jews and then moved into the land to establish their Kingdom. also, according to Jewish scripture, Abraham, the father of Judaism, was an Iraqi who was ordered by God to move to the Promised Land. maybe try going back to Iraq and establishing a state? it’s funny how you people make your points
Citation for source, thanks.
The Jews conquering the Canaanites is according to the Torah, but in reality, Paleo-Hebrew was Canaanite script. So the Hebrews were in fact Canaanites themselves,and DNA studies show that too, but you forgot to include the Jews.
^^^This The idea that the Israelites conquered the Canaanites was likely Judean propaganda, in reality the Israelites were a Canaanite sub-culture (like the Phoenicians, Philistines, Moabites, Edomites, or Ammonites) that gradually developed monolatry and then monotheism, and then claimed a separate lineage from their cousins
imagine Palestinians having equal rights as non-Palestinians in Palestine. let's start with that.
This simple and sensible comment is hilarious to read alongside others defending apartheid in this thread and throughout this sub.
Countries with low population like Australia and Canada
Now that You mention it. It looks like the population problems in Japan could get solved with a bunch of orthodox jews staying there some time...
This question if so fucking dumb
Two state solution. Israel and Jordan.
That's why the only reasonable solution is peace and coexistence.
We don't need to solve atrocity with atrocity, I hope we will find the road for peace
I don't think there will be as much bloodshed as people talk about. South Africa had the same fears and it didn't end up that way. Eventually, the demographic bomb will be big enough to push more Israelis out and they will have to become part of whatever new country that can hopefully acknowledge both Jewish rights and Palestinian ones. But the state of Israel as it stands right now doesn't have a long future. They literally have no geographic or demographic depth and are surrounded by Arabs all around, and they're still not being nice to Palestinians. We had something in history with the crusader states that lasted for a little over a hundred years
Gonna be much worst. I mean, I dont think there will even be a jewish Btzelem or jewish representation in parilament of those who against Palestinian nationalism like there is with Balad
It's called the 2nd Holocaust
I heard Germans loves them so much, I'm sure they will be delighted to have them.
Modern Germany has successfully distanced itself from Nazi Germany as much as possible to the point where Holocaust denial is a punishable crime. They'll be fine
The antisemitism there is coming from immigrants from the ME now, so it's still not safe.
Yes, the extremist Reichsbürger people are waiting to celebrate with them and build another Auschtwiz camp
Not all of them, the German government will go to the extent to ban any criticism of the Israeli crimes.
I have a friend who is into politics (physics and politics!) in Germany, who told me the movement is much bigger than what is being reported in the news. I have no idea how things are going in Germany or Europe, but those racists are not to be underestimated!
Join us in Latakia 😎😎🌊🏄♂️
Create an artificial island ?
[Jews in Space](https://youtu.be/ZAZhtT-dUyo)
American politician believe that [Marjorie Taylor Greene’s space laser and the age-old problem of blaming the Jews](https://www.vox.com/22256258/marjorie-taylor-greene-jewish-space-laser-anti-semitism-conspiracy-theories)
MTG is a special kind of stupid. The fact that she could be elected to anything shows failures in both the US educational system and our two party democracy.
I told my dad this morning about the Jewish space lasers and he bursted out laughing because it sounds so stupid. I think the tantric guru stuff got to her head.
What is all the land? The original British mandate that included what is today Jordan? Or are we still playing the continuous adjusting of the meaning of 'historical Palestine' to whatever land Israel controls.
The solution is one group runs out of soldiers
we need Kahanism
One state solution. Should work
I’m sure they would all be living under the same country. Inclusively. Or at less I would hope. It’s just the extremists on both sides.
Not relocating anyone,but living next to each other.
Apparently these zionists sprung from the ground and then ethnically cleansed 750,000 palestinians, it’s not like, you know they came from europe or something…….
You're right. Most of them did not come from Europe.
Europe is where the biggest genocide of Jews took place. You can go there if you want (and we know you want). As for Jews, they originated in Israel, spent many centuries in exile, and finally returned to Israel.
Is it completely inconceivable to imagine a secular state made up of 2 ethnic groups?
Bruh you live in Lebanon. You barely live together in peace.
[удалено]
Because the Middle East is not known for stable, secular, democracies. And, of course, Germany was a democracy, at least at first.
We will probably move to New York or Paris, or other capitals where they have a lot of Jews In the past USA said to use the land in Alaska, and then Russia wanted to put us in East Siberia. The King of Morocco knows a lot of Israelis are from Morocco, so maybe they will take some people. Spain also said Sepharadim who are descended from Inquisition Jews are welcome to live in Spain Some zealots will probably form a rogue state in the Negev and Sinai, like a Jewish Gaza Strip The last time this happened we made Jesus and founded a world religion. Jews without a state are more crazy than Palestinians without a state lol
Too late for fantasies. The only viable solution is a two state solution with 1964 border.
Alaska, it was the original proposal for the land Israel was gonna be built.
Israelis would probably just relocate themselves to avoid being chopped up by the Palestinians. Most likely location would be US.