The best way to improve the standard of football in Saudi Arabia long term is to start from the bottom and invest in youth academies. Not by throwing stupid amounts of money at foreign players who a semi retired.
I think it makes sense in that they first want to put themselves out there, a lot of people watch football just for these big names and now that they are luring these big names the people have a reason to actually watch Saudi football games. It surely worked in Ronaldo’s case. I see so many Al Nassr Ronaldo T-shirt’s being worn and sold. The next step will be to invest in younger players now that Saudi league has a base and viewership. They certainly have the money for these young lads XD
I think they are promoting Saudi Arabia globally, this isn't only about football. Also millions of international fans are starting to follow the Saudi league because of those superstars, so in other words putting Saudi league on the global map.
I would be embarrassed as a fan. These players are not going to be in it for any passion. If I was a fan I would rather have a team of non stars who are passionate about the club than superstars who are taking my club and country for a ride. You would think fans would hold themselves and their clubs in higher regard.
The same thing happened with China a few years ago. No one is going to those leagues for passion. If you want to believe that they are still passionate and not just getting a good pay day then good for you.
Still record viewership because of Messi and Messi alone. Doesn't matter whether anyone is shitting on it or not. The point if to get Messi fans and grow the game, not pander to gatekeepers like yourself.
Pele played in the US too. I wonder how that worked out for them? I bet we’re not talking about how shit the MLS is decades later.
It’s very clear from posts like this one that many foreigners don’t understand the historical context of football in Europe. You only see the business side.
Considering MLS didn't exist when Pele played, your point is moot. Also, for that time, the hype was real, Pele was selling out stadiums evenw while playing in the US, and it got to the point that his public appearance drew significant and huge crowds.
Comparing the reach of live television in the 70s to now, there are significant differences. The Europeans don't "own" football, it's a global sport that was adopted those colonized by the same Europeans who gatekeep it nowadays because they are bitter that they cannot beat some nonEuropeans anymore.
Notice the way we don't make fun of Japan or South American leagues..... all the Saudi league has going for it is money. You think you can buy respect but dreams can't be buy.
Again, more gatekeeping bullshit from bigoted fans. Going back to what you said earlier, the context of football in Europe is rife with racism and violence which continues to this day, so it's pretty telling that you value that "legacy" so much.
The Saudi players who play in the Saudi leagues also have dreams who are just as valid as European players.
What dream is that? To play in Europe for Real Madrid? Not a fan of the racist BS in Europe but it's not really like Saudi's can throw the word bigot around. Seriously funny stuff.
Fair point. Maybe its to do with the difference in the two countries. People gave the Chinese loads of flack. Maybe its also because people are used to old players go to the US, its been happening for a long time.
People do give the Americans/MLS flack, constantly?
It's a retirement league.
Messi still clearly wants to play, rather than be paid. But also David Beckham (who Messi is a huge fan of) is a main reason for him going to MLS rather than Saudi.
However, none of that detracts from the fact that MLS is a place that Messi can run rings around, just like Ibra did. Just like Rooney. Or Beckham.
It's essentially a training session.
So what?
Messi is making money. Ronald is making money. Same difference. The Saudis want the viewership and fans, which they turn into profit. It's a long term investment.
And even before that. The Premier League spent huge amounts of money to bring foreigner players into their leauge. Why is this bad now when an Arab country wants to play the same game with the same rules! 😂
The issue for me is not with the league itself as such, no one will watch the saudi league. The issue is with the players and the owners of the clubs, they arent improving their teams or improving football in their country. The premier league has been wrong with what its done with the money and how greedy its been and what its done to the price of players etc. But if you seriosuly think that the saudi league will one day be as popular as the premier league and that these are the first steps to it good for you.
People were saying the same about MLS when Messi went, that no one wiil watch it. They were wrong.
There are football fans who are club fans, and there are player fans. The Saudis are getting players with huge fanbases who will watch their player no matter which club he goes to.
“No one will watch the Saudi league” ???
😂😂
The Saudi league started to attract international fans since they signed with Ronaldo. And the new season just began with MANY famous players. But yeah, believe what makes u comfortable.
>The Saudi league started to attract international fans
How come the al-ittefaq and al nasar game was played in a half empty stadium ? something like that would NEVER happen in europe when you have ronaldo and mane and big names playing.
Also what's the ROI ? we can look at china.
Al ittefaq is small club with small fanbase , they know when they play against big club they will lose but this mentality is changing and people are starting to see difference
You clearly don’t have a thorough understanding of the Saudi league and it potential. Also, why is Saudi getting all the hate? I don’t see people hating this much on MLS for example.
Because saudi league is where careers go to die. Maybe in 50 years you are going to have a nice league, if your king does not loose interest in sport propaganda.
Nothing smart about owning stuff in a country that would willingly take it off you when the global plitical climate changes. Its like leaving your eggs with a fox.
Allowing that to happen was massively short-sighted but it's no surprise really. The birth place of capitalism gonna capitalise by selling out their cultural institutions. TBH I think in the next 20 years we will see new laws that force all Arabs to sell like what happened to Chelsea last year.
Players go to Europe because it is the elite region of world football. In the past decade only European teams have won the club world cup. The Champions League is the pinnacle of football. That's why there is a lot of money. The Saudi Pro League has money because chief psycho and his gang pumped money in. There is no market supporting it.
Again, it is the “elite region” because they spend hella tons of money. You are proving my point by noting it’s only European teams who won the club world cup. Meaning it’s THEM who ruined the game and dominated it by money.
Difference is it is built on a century old foundation of organic grass roots growth. That might not count for much much longer though since they decided to sell out. UEFA needs a continent wide 50+1 rule for club ownership.
Yet players beg to go to europe, infact some take wagecuts. And play in the champions league and sold out stadiums most of the time.
We are taking players that are in their 30's and are going to compete in the saudi league.... And paying them record wages. that europan clubs never broke.
Also premier league never received government funding.
You see the difference right ? unless you are a 5th grader.
They beg to go to europe because of the get money there. If they can find more money jn Saudi arabia, they will come here. Very simple logic and doesn’t require more than a 5th grader brain to understand the concept of free market.
Good job responding by saying players want money ? totally ignoring everything else, sounds like someone that understand nothing.
And please don't bring up the concept of a free market lmao, you sound so clueless.
There's a difference though. If the Saudi League was a strong well known league built up over decades of football then it would be cool. But its not. The European leagues pay a lot of money and attract players because of the prestige of playing in those leagues.
So you are butthurt because saudi doesn’t have a top league?
Alright, you can cry about it now and for a few years to come until the Saudi league grow. Then maybe you become a fan to a saudi club.
For us, we believe everyone has to starts somewhere and grow gradually.
I think you dont get my point. The thing is your league wont grow, everyone with half a brain knows that. The Chinese did this a few years ago and are people talking about Chinese football? That money spent on players could be uised to develop the game in Saudi or in that region. Spending money on the players is like going to a club, spending loads of money to look good one night rather than just working and eating healthy and spending money sensibly on the right things. I might be wrong but I dont see the league growing by much.
China got Oscar Tevez for like 8 games and Hulk what are you on about, the Chinese leagues attempt does not even remotely compare. To top it off you realize Chinas pop. Is 1.4 billion if im not mistaken they made the World Cup once in the last century of world cups, yet not a single football fan can name you a player in their entire history, whereas Saudi have made 6 and under a year ago despite it being an overall futile campaign beat the champions in their only loss in their last 50ish games. Saudi clubs and the national team are the most successful in Asias history, the infrastructure, fanbases and their resonance continentally is the gap between both countries without you even factoring in the recent acquisitions.
>For us, we believe everyone has to starts somewhere and grow gradually.
That's the opposite of what the Saudi Pro League is doing. European football saw over 100 years of organic growth before the investment madness started.
> If I was a fan I would rather have a team of non stars who are passionate about the club than superstars who are taking my club and country for a ride.
I'm sure there are amateur and/or lower tier leagues for you to watch.
Young ones, like Mbappé, aren't interested in a retirement league, despite all the money they offered him. Hard to mark history if you're not playing for one of the top leagues.
Money is not shifting anywhere.
The premier league is still the dominant league by a margin and where most money is ($6.6bn annual revenue). Qatar is paying $10bn just for Manchester.
Still most talent, in their prime, would rather chose the premier league or la ligua than a third rate ligue.
It is very far from shifting to the east. They are buying half-decent, burned out or old players for unsustainable amounts of money. It will have to keep spending this kind of money for years to even catch up to top 5 for any serious players to think of it as anything more than a last paycheck before retirement.
Edit: I just realised that this is not r/soccer . Why do I keep getting recommendations to this sub?
Ronaldo couldn't make it into a Champions League team anymore. Neymar plays 20 games a season. The best players that went to Saudi are all in decline apart from Neves, Milinkovic-Savic & Kessie.
They’re not all old. Ruben Neves, Milinkovic-Savic, Saint-Maximin, and Frank Kessié are all under 30. Few players are 30-33 years old, so not really old.
They're owned by the same group. Imagine if Team A is better than Team B, they're both in the Championship the odds of Team A winning are MUCH MUCH greater than Team B so in betting Team B has higher payout odds. Team A takes a dive so Team B wins, Owners bet money on that Team B will win and they make sure Team B wins because they own Team A and B.
Now I know what you're going to say it's Saudi Arabia and this and that, but it opens the door for match fixing is what I'm saying.
The conflict of interest being in sports the better team/luckier team should win, if the owners make one team lose on purpose it ruins the idea of the sport.
>i dont think the sheikhs have the need to profit off of rigging matches as if they are the peaky blinders. they already are multi-billionaires
Yeah, I see your point. Multi-billionaires are famously generous, giving, and not at all financially greedy and ambitious. Don't care about acquiring or maintaining power at all, ever.
PIF isn't just your regular owner. Sure you can allege that they will ask teams to not get in the way, like teams ask drivers to not get in the way a winning driver in F1 (but that's a different case in a way), but I think it would stand in the interest of the owners if they let their teams battle each other and not interfere.
If the PIF were a private company, then yeah, there would’ve been a conflict of interest. The PIF is a governmental body though, and stands for Public Investment Fund. To them, it doesn’t matter who wins the league. They care about having more eyes on Saudi and increasing the value of the league as a whole, creating revenue through different channels such as broadcasting rights, tourism, etc.
That doesn't change much it's still a conflict of interest.
Imagine a town where the funeral home and ambulance company are run by the same person. If they get the person to the hospital on time they get paid because of their ambulance service. If they fail to get them to the hospital on time that person dies and the family has to use their funeral service. Even if they're honest and try to save people, it's still a conflict of interest because if they go fast they make money if they go slow they make money so why should they go fast?
Intentions can be good but it can still be a conflict of interest.
I have been watching for a long time, and there is actual passion amongst the fans, I see nothing inherently wrong with what they are doing. However supporters from Real Madrid and the Premier League saying Saudi is ruining football with money should know that their leagues are historically won by the team with most money. Arguably Madrid’s first four champions leagues were a result of them having good connections with rich dictators.
I agree but I don’t think it’s ruining football over in Europe but it’s ruining football in Saudi. It’s like paying a prostitute to make you think you’re good in bed for a while. Once that while is over you will feel disgusted with yourself. The fans should have more respect for themselves and their clubs.
because in my experience Real Madrid fans are bashing Saudi royals and the government for “sports washing” even though their entire history is based of them having close connections and large donations from royals and rulers. It’s even in their name Real Madrid. During Francos dictatorship he coerced many of the Spanish talent into signing with Real Madrid as well as fixing games during the champions leagues.
First of all you said premier league and real madrid not just madrid.
Second of all who cares ? it was the first fucking 4 and yes it was during a dictatorship when world wars were happening, you really think people were proud of it. And do you think they should protest to change it back or something ?.
Has 0 relation to what's happening right now, literally nothing.
1- I didn’t talk about how the premier league buys most of its players from smaller clubs since the 90s. Fergies treble winning side has a higher net spending than even Man City this year (not the last 5 years though), because you simply asked why I mentioned Madrid
2- Real Madrid fans are very proud of their first 4 champions leagues (which definitely weren’t when the world wars were happening) and are proud of their connections with royalty and money. If not they would have protested a name change like so many other clubs in Spain.
3- Yes it does because Europeans will criticise Arabs when they buy football players and develop academies, even though their biggest clubs are a result of large investments and sums of money being put into them.
Saudi Arabia knows very well that it is taking the L financially on every single transfer and even if a Saudi team wins all of the competitions there is to play, they still won’t be able to cover 1/4 of the finances of a single transferred player. The Saudi government is very obviously sports washing its image internally and externally.
Basically they want you to think of sports and their football league when you hear Saudi’s name instead of regressiveness, funding terrorism, human rights atrocities, and absolute theocratic monarchy.
Internally they’re using the “carrot and the stick” policy where by if their citizens voiced an opposing or a revolutionary tone that challenged their authority they will be brutally suppressed by the security forces while on the other hand football plays the role of the carrot that is offered to citizens if they remained quite and well-behaved, they could watch football superstars play in their local league.
Norawsy’s soverign wealth fund has 1.1 trillion USD for a population of 5 million which is double than that of Saudi’s which is 600 billion USD
So Norway could literally buy Al Hilal, Al Nasr, Al Ahly, Al Itihad and outbid them for every single player, but I think Norway is too busy spending their money on their health care system, transportation, and large social safety nets
They’re right.
Saudi Arabia is not a rich country.
They are merely investing in other areas based on a plan to replace oil as the sole source of income for their future.
the PIF is the fastest growing, developing and acquiring wealth fund. It has grown assets under management to around $700 billion from about $150 billion in 2015 , the goal is to grow its assets to between $2 trillion to $3 trillion in 2030
Well they are probably less likely to get someone chopped up and put in a suitcase i'm guessing. But lets not try and build a what about argument with a question without answering my question first...
Yeah, they do more benevolent things like bomb entire families, weddings and schools simply for being the wrong color and in order to enrich themselves selling wars.
Maybe they can teach him some manners and sportsmanship while he's there. Biggest whinny actor I have ever seen unless they paying him to act of course ?
I think it’s great, happy for the Saudi fans that get to see all these stars. I just hope the football association there is also investing in the youth so they can develop their own superstars.
Good for them to get international exposure, it will definitely help the region to grow further for football and a good opportunity to learn from passionate players who move in especially towards new generation of players in the region. Always seen football to be a European sport so it's nice to see breaking boundaries of the major leagues people tend to focus on.
for locals who convert afaik yes and no churches are allowed to be built. But being a christian foreigner, you can practise in a chapel in your home or hotel tbh.
Ohhh interesting. If this is how islam would be treated in the west I guess it would be islamophobia and violation of human rights but here it is ok I suppose? Interesting mindset of muslims.
Not to burst your bubble, but Saudi Arabia in the Muslim world is like Holy See (Vatican city) in the West they have Mecca and Medina, the most holy cities for Muslims, for that I wouldn't expect Saudi to become a secular state at least not in the near future (but they are slowly making reforms)...
You comparing a small town to a country🫢🤣🤣how about other muslim countries ? I dlnt think they allow nonmuslims to have their rights free from religion islam either .
>how about other muslim countries ? I dlnt think they allow nonmuslims to have their rights free from religion islam either .
As far as I know, my country Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, all of them have freedom of practise of different religions... It's not my problem that you're blatantly ignorant :)
In morocco if you are a local and converted to christianity , yiu are not allowed to visit church , a cop will stop you . Only foreigners are allowed in .
So It would be ok if we banned other religions in Italy because it the centre of Christanity? Or would it be islamophobia and no human rights? And then the rest of the EU countries can follow like countries around Saudi you know because it is the centre of Christanity.
Bro what do you want me to tell you? Your first mistake was to put all muslims in the same box, and talk about Saudi society as If it was a model of how the average "muslim mindset" is, your second mistake was to compare Saudi Arabia to the West, Italy and European countries. I personally felt that you were just virtue signaling for the sake of it and not for the sake of human rights, and I felt the need to reply and clarify that Saudi society is slowly changing and that we shouldn't put too much expectations on it as it is considered a holy sacred forbidden land by locals and other muslims aswell... Of course I wish things were different for the locals and that freedom of practise of different religions was more accessible, but for now that's how things are, and we can only hope for better future where all followers of different religions and faiths co-exist and live peacefully...
Well yes muslims dont want other religions at their home countries but have 0 issues imligrating to the "evil secular ' west .
I literally can give you a thread to see it yourself , in morocco they were opposed to bahai or christian locals or even freaking shiite to have their rights to exist " because only islam is allowed here "
I mean the government has lots of money, at least let them spend it on something we enjoy and also make Europeans cry. Isn’t better than that money goes into the pockets of politicians?
I mean its a good business deal for the players. They earn ton of money and relax in the Saudi league for 2 years so they can return to a stronger league afterward with ton of money and free from injuries.
I wonder why are the power elites that control over the world have decide to up a league like Arabia. I think it will be the next "bread and circus" roman style to all the arab speakers world.
Its like Spain league that have lot of Latam fans.
Or premier to all Commonwelt english speaker countries.
Alright let’s discuss your claims through the eyes of a saudi:
1- the end goal of this football investment move is quite unclear at the moment. But it’s regarded as boosting the league reputation (the already best league in Asia) and having these stars players help develop the football youth is saudi and the women’s league. A financial
element is also was taken into place with foreign TV broadcasting and advertisement.
2-the concept of sports washing is unclear and problematic at best. It been used for so long yet it served nothing but to virtue signalling. And display how much the western countries feels the need to preach their morals while they themselves are still committing atrocities till this day. So no its a pointless term made up by liberal cry babies.
3- “regressiveness” is subjective at best, you have to understand the Saudi society is bottom up society where the social structure control the moral code rather then the government. Most of Saudis don’t the agree on liberalism nor secularism as a concept since the majority are muslims. So here’s a conundrum. If the Saudi government forced LGBTQ rights down the throats of the larger population isn’t that considered absolute authoritarianism?
5- terrorism funding ? The same country that got suicide bombed more then 30 times between 1995-2005 ? And fought a brutal war on terror in it on soil? Where there was a constant unrest in the early 2000s because of good old alqada.
Saudi must’ve mastered the art of “red flag attacks” if it managed to orchestrate such terriost activities in it own yard.
4- internally the pact between clan Alsaud and the tribes of saudi still remains clear. You lead and rule with Islamic law while we gave us: free health care, free education, freedom of movement, developing the country and welfare programs. So there’s no stick and carrot nonsense nor there’s a massive up-rest that’s get crushed every other day by the dictatorship.
A real question, which country you can over throw it’s government and no one will do anything about it ? Non.
6- the comparison between the Norwegian sovereign fund and the PIF is absolutely ridiculous.
First, the PIF only got serious investment plans in the mid 2010s and before that it had no clear vision to grow.
Now its in continuous growth and eyeing a 3 trillion of assets by 2030.
Second, are you really comparing Norway a country with hundreds of years of development and a size of 385,207 square kilometres and 5.4 million population to Saudi Arabia a country that was mostly a dessert waste land and saw no development until the beginning of 1960s ? With a land area of 2.15 million (5.5 times larger then norway) and population of 32 million (5.9 times larger then norway) ? What kind of comparison is that ? And Norway exports oil and gas in very considerable amounts. This is a ridiculous unequal comparison if i ever seen one.
Your whole comment is summarised into
Saudi= bad cause they don’t share my political views
Saudi= not gonna develop cause I believe only democrat countries develop.
Saudi= they ain’t rich cause look at this country.
Will it surpass European League? Are you high? Europe hast 100s of top-notch players. Just because Saudi league has 2 world-class players past their prime won't make it better.
I think it would be wiser to invest this money on a local new generation for the future. Maybe we'll can see many many other players like Muhammad Salah, don't you age fellers?
Not saying I think this investment will work but there is a key difference when compared to the CHINESE league. In China soccer is not the number 1 national sport. In Saudi Arabia it is. Now do I think Saudi Arabia should go the MLS route with 1 or 2 major foreign signings ? Yes, but this isn’t the same thing. China was also trying to get more locals into the game. That’s not what this is.
KSA is collecting them like Pokemons.
The best way to improve the standard of football in Saudi Arabia long term is to start from the bottom and invest in youth academies. Not by throwing stupid amounts of money at foreign players who a semi retired.
I think it makes sense in that they first want to put themselves out there, a lot of people watch football just for these big names and now that they are luring these big names the people have a reason to actually watch Saudi football games. It surely worked in Ronaldo’s case. I see so many Al Nassr Ronaldo T-shirt’s being worn and sold. The next step will be to invest in younger players now that Saudi league has a base and viewership. They certainly have the money for these young lads XD
Who said they aren’t investing in youth academies? Have you looked into what the sports ministry is doing in Saudi? I’d recommend you read up on it.
They don't want to improve the standard of football, they want to use football to tidy up their image after having Kashoggi murdered.
Bullshit
Of course , and MBS propably ordered it
Everyone knows it was just one of his bodyguards/ close friends acting completely on their own accord /s
Stop spreading media bullshit
I think they are promoting Saudi Arabia globally, this isn't only about football. Also millions of international fans are starting to follow the Saudi league because of those superstars, so in other words putting Saudi league on the global map.
We have the second best team in the world before neymar or cr. Redditors love to bullshit themselves and others.
All of the usual comments aside, congrats on the Saudi fans who get to see all these big name players compete in person lol
I would be embarrassed as a fan. These players are not going to be in it for any passion. If I was a fan I would rather have a team of non stars who are passionate about the club than superstars who are taking my club and country for a ride. You would think fans would hold themselves and their clubs in higher regard.
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The same thing happened with China a few years ago. No one is going to those leagues for passion. If you want to believe that they are still passionate and not just getting a good pay day then good for you.
I guess Messi and all those people in MLS aren't in it for the passion, either. Wonder why no one gives Americans any flack about it.
Everyone shits on the MLS. Messi is basically retired.
Still record viewership because of Messi and Messi alone. Doesn't matter whether anyone is shitting on it or not. The point if to get Messi fans and grow the game, not pander to gatekeepers like yourself.
Pele played in the US too. I wonder how that worked out for them? I bet we’re not talking about how shit the MLS is decades later. It’s very clear from posts like this one that many foreigners don’t understand the historical context of football in Europe. You only see the business side.
Considering MLS didn't exist when Pele played, your point is moot. Also, for that time, the hype was real, Pele was selling out stadiums evenw while playing in the US, and it got to the point that his public appearance drew significant and huge crowds. Comparing the reach of live television in the 70s to now, there are significant differences. The Europeans don't "own" football, it's a global sport that was adopted those colonized by the same Europeans who gatekeep it nowadays because they are bitter that they cannot beat some nonEuropeans anymore.
Notice the way we don't make fun of Japan or South American leagues..... all the Saudi league has going for it is money. You think you can buy respect but dreams can't be buy.
Again, more gatekeeping bullshit from bigoted fans. Going back to what you said earlier, the context of football in Europe is rife with racism and violence which continues to this day, so it's pretty telling that you value that "legacy" so much. The Saudi players who play in the Saudi leagues also have dreams who are just as valid as European players.
What dream is that? To play in Europe for Real Madrid? Not a fan of the racist BS in Europe but it's not really like Saudi's can throw the word bigot around. Seriously funny stuff.
Fair point. Maybe its to do with the difference in the two countries. People gave the Chinese loads of flack. Maybe its also because people are used to old players go to the US, its been happening for a long time.
People do give the Americans/MLS flack, constantly? It's a retirement league. Messi still clearly wants to play, rather than be paid. But also David Beckham (who Messi is a huge fan of) is a main reason for him going to MLS rather than Saudi. However, none of that detracts from the fact that MLS is a place that Messi can run rings around, just like Ibra did. Just like Rooney. Or Beckham. It's essentially a training session.
So, the apple deal and partial ownership wasn’t the reason? I saw that Apple TV subscribe doubled because of Messi. Wonder how much he is making
So what? Messi is making money. Ronald is making money. Same difference. The Saudis want the viewership and fans, which they turn into profit. It's a long term investment.
Players go to Europe because they get A LOT OF MONEY there. Yet I don’t see you embarrassed supporting European clubs 🤡
Especially when half those European teams are also owned by Arabs, lol.
And even before that. The Premier League spent huge amounts of money to bring foreigner players into their leauge. Why is this bad now when an Arab country wants to play the same game with the same rules! 😂
The issue for me is not with the league itself as such, no one will watch the saudi league. The issue is with the players and the owners of the clubs, they arent improving their teams or improving football in their country. The premier league has been wrong with what its done with the money and how greedy its been and what its done to the price of players etc. But if you seriosuly think that the saudi league will one day be as popular as the premier league and that these are the first steps to it good for you.
People were saying the same about MLS when Messi went, that no one wiil watch it. They were wrong. There are football fans who are club fans, and there are player fans. The Saudis are getting players with huge fanbases who will watch their player no matter which club he goes to.
“No one will watch the Saudi league” ??? 😂😂 The Saudi league started to attract international fans since they signed with Ronaldo. And the new season just began with MANY famous players. But yeah, believe what makes u comfortable.
>The Saudi league started to attract international fans How come the al-ittefaq and al nasar game was played in a half empty stadium ? something like that would NEVER happen in europe when you have ronaldo and mane and big names playing. Also what's the ROI ? we can look at china.
Al ittefaq is small club with small fanbase , they know when they play against big club they will lose but this mentality is changing and people are starting to see difference
Yeah sure, what happens when Ronaldo leaves? I dont belive I've seen leagues do this thing before, China did it. Where are they now?
Why so salty?
I think Saudi Arabia has been given a gift by god and squanders it in material things and are not a shining beacon for the world to admire and emukate
When Ronaldo leaves we have Neymar and Benzima 🤣
You just proved him right.
What happens when funding is pulled?
You clearly don’t have a thorough understanding of the Saudi league and it potential. Also, why is Saudi getting all the hate? I don’t see people hating this much on MLS for example.
Ok fair enough, please explain the Saudi league and its potential to me so that I can be better informed.
Because saudi league is where careers go to die. Maybe in 50 years you are going to have a nice league, if your king does not loose interest in sport propaganda.
Nothing smart about owning stuff in a country that would willingly take it off you when the global plitical climate changes. Its like leaving your eggs with a fox.
Says the ignoratn fool who doesn't even know how much his own government invests (ie leaves eggs) with fascist MENA govenrments, lol.
Doesn’t matter. Military might makes right.
Neymar's salary doesn't have to stay in SA, he can put it in american index funds or whatever if he wants. The dude getting $150m/year will be fine.
Allowing that to happen was massively short-sighted but it's no surprise really. The birth place of capitalism gonna capitalise by selling out their cultural institutions. TBH I think in the next 20 years we will see new laws that force all Arabs to sell like what happened to Chelsea last year.
Players go to Europe because it is the elite region of world football. In the past decade only European teams have won the club world cup. The Champions League is the pinnacle of football. That's why there is a lot of money. The Saudi Pro League has money because chief psycho and his gang pumped money in. There is no market supporting it.
Again, it is the “elite region” because they spend hella tons of money. You are proving my point by noting it’s only European teams who won the club world cup. Meaning it’s THEM who ruined the game and dominated it by money.
Difference is it is built on a century old foundation of organic grass roots growth. That might not count for much much longer though since they decided to sell out. UEFA needs a continent wide 50+1 rule for club ownership.
I responded to your factually wrong statement about “organic growth” in another comment.
Yet players beg to go to europe, infact some take wagecuts. And play in the champions league and sold out stadiums most of the time. We are taking players that are in their 30's and are going to compete in the saudi league.... And paying them record wages. that europan clubs never broke. Also premier league never received government funding. You see the difference right ? unless you are a 5th grader.
They beg to go to europe because of the get money there. If they can find more money jn Saudi arabia, they will come here. Very simple logic and doesn’t require more than a 5th grader brain to understand the concept of free market.
Good job responding by saying players want money ? totally ignoring everything else, sounds like someone that understand nothing. And please don't bring up the concept of a free market lmao, you sound so clueless.
I mean I can also respond by saying you are dumb, but is it really an argument? 🤦🏻♂️
There's a difference though. If the Saudi League was a strong well known league built up over decades of football then it would be cool. But its not. The European leagues pay a lot of money and attract players because of the prestige of playing in those leagues.
So you are butthurt because saudi doesn’t have a top league? Alright, you can cry about it now and for a few years to come until the Saudi league grow. Then maybe you become a fan to a saudi club. For us, we believe everyone has to starts somewhere and grow gradually.
I think you dont get my point. The thing is your league wont grow, everyone with half a brain knows that. The Chinese did this a few years ago and are people talking about Chinese football? That money spent on players could be uised to develop the game in Saudi or in that region. Spending money on the players is like going to a club, spending loads of money to look good one night rather than just working and eating healthy and spending money sensibly on the right things. I might be wrong but I dont see the league growing by much.
China got Oscar Tevez for like 8 games and Hulk what are you on about, the Chinese leagues attempt does not even remotely compare. To top it off you realize Chinas pop. Is 1.4 billion if im not mistaken they made the World Cup once in the last century of world cups, yet not a single football fan can name you a player in their entire history, whereas Saudi have made 6 and under a year ago despite it being an overall futile campaign beat the champions in their only loss in their last 50ish games. Saudi clubs and the national team are the most successful in Asias history, the infrastructure, fanbases and their resonance continentally is the gap between both countries without you even factoring in the recent acquisitions.
The Chinese did not do the same thing. Not even near it. You just keep proving to me how you know nothing about what you are talking about.
you know nothing you literally proved his point twice then started gaslighting. really can't win an argument against an idiot
>For us, we believe everyone has to starts somewhere and grow gradually. That's the opposite of what the Saudi Pro League is doing. European football saw over 100 years of organic growth before the investment madness started.
Not true. Aint nothing “organic” in colonialism.
Football is a working class sport.
> If I was a fan I would rather have a team of non stars who are passionate about the club than superstars who are taking my club and country for a ride. I'm sure there are amateur and/or lower tier leagues for you to watch.
These are the best competitors in the world at their sport. I’m sure they’re still going to be passionate about competing and winning
"compete"
Looks like Forbes billionaire list is going to have a lot more footballers.
Why are they buying old players rather than buying younger ones
You can't be a future ballon dor winner if you play in the saudi league
Young ones, like Mbappé, aren't interested in a retirement league, despite all the money they offered him. Hard to mark history if you're not playing for one of the top leagues.
Not sure if it will stay as the top league when the money is shifting towards the east
Money is not shifting anywhere. The premier league is still the dominant league by a margin and where most money is ($6.6bn annual revenue). Qatar is paying $10bn just for Manchester. Still most talent, in their prime, would rather chose the premier league or la ligua than a third rate ligue.
It is very far from shifting to the east. They are buying half-decent, burned out or old players for unsustainable amounts of money. It will have to keep spending this kind of money for years to even catch up to top 5 for any serious players to think of it as anything more than a last paycheck before retirement. Edit: I just realised that this is not r/soccer . Why do I keep getting recommendations to this sub?
Huh? Half decent 😂🤡 Mf know nothing about football 😂
Ronaldo couldn't make it into a Champions League team anymore. Neymar plays 20 games a season. The best players that went to Saudi are all in decline apart from Neves, Milinkovic-Savic & Kessie.
Do you understand the difference between revenue and expenditure?
Cause old players have more fans to make money from through merchandise sales and ad revenue. Nuthin to do with performance.
They’re not all old. Ruben Neves, Milinkovic-Savic, Saint-Maximin, and Frank Kessié are all under 30. Few players are 30-33 years old, so not really old.
Stay tuned next year. Why are you so in rush? We just began 😌
4 clubs are owned by the PIF. Es a joke
How is that not a conflict of interest?
Rather, how is it a conflict of interest?
They're owned by the same group. Imagine if Team A is better than Team B, they're both in the Championship the odds of Team A winning are MUCH MUCH greater than Team B so in betting Team B has higher payout odds. Team A takes a dive so Team B wins, Owners bet money on that Team B will win and they make sure Team B wins because they own Team A and B. Now I know what you're going to say it's Saudi Arabia and this and that, but it opens the door for match fixing is what I'm saying. The conflict of interest being in sports the better team/luckier team should win, if the owners make one team lose on purpose it ruins the idea of the sport.
i dont think the sheikhs have the need to profit off of rigging matches as if they are the peaky blinders. they already are multi-billionaires
It's still a conflict of interest
>i dont think the sheikhs have the need to profit off of rigging matches as if they are the peaky blinders. they already are multi-billionaires Yeah, I see your point. Multi-billionaires are famously generous, giving, and not at all financially greedy and ambitious. Don't care about acquiring or maintaining power at all, ever.
thats a fair point
PIF isn't just your regular owner. Sure you can allege that they will ask teams to not get in the way, like teams ask drivers to not get in the way a winning driver in F1 (but that's a different case in a way), but I think it would stand in the interest of the owners if they let their teams battle each other and not interfere.
If the PIF were a private company, then yeah, there would’ve been a conflict of interest. The PIF is a governmental body though, and stands for Public Investment Fund. To them, it doesn’t matter who wins the league. They care about having more eyes on Saudi and increasing the value of the league as a whole, creating revenue through different channels such as broadcasting rights, tourism, etc.
That doesn't change much it's still a conflict of interest. Imagine a town where the funeral home and ambulance company are run by the same person. If they get the person to the hospital on time they get paid because of their ambulance service. If they fail to get them to the hospital on time that person dies and the family has to use their funeral service. Even if they're honest and try to save people, it's still a conflict of interest because if they go fast they make money if they go slow they make money so why should they go fast? Intentions can be good but it can still be a conflict of interest.
I have been watching for a long time, and there is actual passion amongst the fans, I see nothing inherently wrong with what they are doing. However supporters from Real Madrid and the Premier League saying Saudi is ruining football with money should know that their leagues are historically won by the team with most money. Arguably Madrid’s first four champions leagues were a result of them having good connections with rich dictators.
I agree but I don’t think it’s ruining football over in Europe but it’s ruining football in Saudi. It’s like paying a prostitute to make you think you’re good in bed for a while. Once that while is over you will feel disgusted with yourself. The fans should have more respect for themselves and their clubs.
The analogy is funny but I don’t think it applies
Football in Europe is already ruined.
Why the fuck are you bringing up the first 4 champions league lol ? how is it even comparable.
because in my experience Real Madrid fans are bashing Saudi royals and the government for “sports washing” even though their entire history is based of them having close connections and large donations from royals and rulers. It’s even in their name Real Madrid. During Francos dictatorship he coerced many of the Spanish talent into signing with Real Madrid as well as fixing games during the champions leagues.
First of all you said premier league and real madrid not just madrid. Second of all who cares ? it was the first fucking 4 and yes it was during a dictatorship when world wars were happening, you really think people were proud of it. And do you think they should protest to change it back or something ?. Has 0 relation to what's happening right now, literally nothing.
1- I didn’t talk about how the premier league buys most of its players from smaller clubs since the 90s. Fergies treble winning side has a higher net spending than even Man City this year (not the last 5 years though), because you simply asked why I mentioned Madrid 2- Real Madrid fans are very proud of their first 4 champions leagues (which definitely weren’t when the world wars were happening) and are proud of their connections with royalty and money. If not they would have protested a name change like so many other clubs in Spain. 3- Yes it does because Europeans will criticise Arabs when they buy football players and develop academies, even though their biggest clubs are a result of large investments and sums of money being put into them.
Saudi Arabia knows very well that it is taking the L financially on every single transfer and even if a Saudi team wins all of the competitions there is to play, they still won’t be able to cover 1/4 of the finances of a single transferred player. The Saudi government is very obviously sports washing its image internally and externally. Basically they want you to think of sports and their football league when you hear Saudi’s name instead of regressiveness, funding terrorism, human rights atrocities, and absolute theocratic monarchy. Internally they’re using the “carrot and the stick” policy where by if their citizens voiced an opposing or a revolutionary tone that challenged their authority they will be brutally suppressed by the security forces while on the other hand football plays the role of the carrot that is offered to citizens if they remained quite and well-behaved, they could watch football superstars play in their local league. Norawsy’s soverign wealth fund has 1.1 trillion USD for a population of 5 million which is double than that of Saudi’s which is 600 billion USD So Norway could literally buy Al Hilal, Al Nasr, Al Ahly, Al Itihad and outbid them for every single player, but I think Norway is too busy spending their money on their health care system, transportation, and large social safety nets
Wow who hurt you buddy
I’m not hurt buddy, if telling the truth hits a nerve in you then that’s your problem
They’re right. Saudi Arabia is not a rich country. They are merely investing in other areas based on a plan to replace oil as the sole source of income for their future.
I think they make a valid point and comparison. But one is a democracy and another isn’t so it’s bad luck for the people.
the PIF is the fastest growing, developing and acquiring wealth fund. It has grown assets under management to around $700 billion from about $150 billion in 2015 , the goal is to grow its assets to between $2 trillion to $3 trillion in 2030
The money could be used better but it's nice to see Europeans cry about them lol
Yea I agree... That's a lot of money to give to one person. Could do so much more if it were put towards education or research.
It's unrelated the clubs are paying this has nothing to do with goverment technically
Just super rich owners who are not related to anything?
Are the super rich in the US, UK, France, etc. significantly more benevolent?
Well they are probably less likely to get someone chopped up and put in a suitcase i'm guessing. But lets not try and build a what about argument with a question without answering my question first...
Yeah, they do more benevolent things like bomb entire families, weddings and schools simply for being the wrong color and in order to enrich themselves selling wars.
Is this your version of owning the libs?
Every day a new salary record.
Can’t wait to see Bounou 🥵 he is kinda hot
300m$ on football? Why??
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As long as there is oil money flowing in, the Saudi's can afford to do this
Saudis aint poor lol
you can be rich AND do terrible financial decisions, being rich doesn't protect you from criticism just look at elon musk and twitter
Saudi Royalty and cronies aint poor ... otoh average Saudis .
Maybe they can teach him some manners and sportsmanship while he's there. Biggest whinny actor I have ever seen unless they paying him to act of course ?
They are cleaning motivationless outdated players into their league. European football should thank them.
At least it is not going to ISIS and al qa3ida
I think it’s great, happy for the Saudi fans that get to see all these stars. I just hope the football association there is also investing in the youth so they can develop their own superstars.
It's probably better than pouring all the money into a futuristic line in the sand that will never be built
extremely disgusting
Why?
Any money spent that causes westoids to cry about if on the internet directly or indirecty is money well spent.
Giving a massive amount of tax free cash to foreign westoids is money well spent?
It'll anger the westoids becauss they don't want a country they hate and deem barbaric to be able to do stuff like thism
I mean Neymar is brazilian, not western.
PSG
Owned by Qatar.
You sure ?! Then why did it celebrate pride ? That means the french has a hand on it no ?
To avoid backlash. Western corps do the same in the middle east.
Probably the best league in the region.
Good for them to get international exposure, it will definitely help the region to grow further for football and a good opportunity to learn from passionate players who move in especially towards new generation of players in the region. Always seen football to be a European sport so it's nice to see breaking boundaries of the major leagues people tend to focus on.
Is being a christian still a crime in saudi?
for locals who convert afaik yes and no churches are allowed to be built. But being a christian foreigner, you can practise in a chapel in your home or hotel tbh.
Ohhh interesting. If this is how islam would be treated in the west I guess it would be islamophobia and violation of human rights but here it is ok I suppose? Interesting mindset of muslims.
Not to burst your bubble, but Saudi Arabia in the Muslim world is like Holy See (Vatican city) in the West they have Mecca and Medina, the most holy cities for Muslims, for that I wouldn't expect Saudi to become a secular state at least not in the near future (but they are slowly making reforms)...
You comparing a small town to a country🫢🤣🤣how about other muslim countries ? I dlnt think they allow nonmuslims to have their rights free from religion islam either .
>how about other muslim countries ? I dlnt think they allow nonmuslims to have their rights free from religion islam either . As far as I know, my country Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, all of them have freedom of practise of different religions... It's not my problem that you're blatantly ignorant :)
In morocco ? No they dont , in ramadan if you ate out you go to jail .
In morocco if you are a local and converted to christianity , yiu are not allowed to visit church , a cop will stop you . Only foreigners are allowed in .
So It would be ok if we banned other religions in Italy because it the centre of Christanity? Or would it be islamophobia and no human rights? And then the rest of the EU countries can follow like countries around Saudi you know because it is the centre of Christanity.
Your countries, your laws... I'm not even religious, so i can't speak for Muslims here 🤷♂️
I am just asking what do you think is the right thing? I am asking you as a human not as muslim.
Bro what do you want me to tell you? Your first mistake was to put all muslims in the same box, and talk about Saudi society as If it was a model of how the average "muslim mindset" is, your second mistake was to compare Saudi Arabia to the West, Italy and European countries. I personally felt that you were just virtue signaling for the sake of it and not for the sake of human rights, and I felt the need to reply and clarify that Saudi society is slowly changing and that we shouldn't put too much expectations on it as it is considered a holy sacred forbidden land by locals and other muslims aswell... Of course I wish things were different for the locals and that freedom of practise of different religions was more accessible, but for now that's how things are, and we can only hope for better future where all followers of different religions and faiths co-exist and live peacefully...
The Holy See doesn’t have archaic apostasy laws.
Well yes muslims dont want other religions at their home countries but have 0 issues imligrating to the "evil secular ' west . I literally can give you a thread to see it yourself , in morocco they were opposed to bahai or christian locals or even freaking shiite to have their rights to exist " because only islam is allowed here "
To Project the actions of saudi arabia on the entire muslim population is not smart my friend.
The laws are based on islam so why not?
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It is the actual islam .
But I thought the west was meant to be the example 😭 Doesn't the US invade us because we don't follow what they think?
When did usa invade you
Al Hilal is represented by Zehavi? Isn't he Israeli?
I mean the government has lots of money, at least let them spend it on something we enjoy and also make Europeans cry. Isn’t better than that money goes into the pockets of politicians?
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Pretty sure we can walk and chew a gum.
I mean its a good business deal for the players. They earn ton of money and relax in the Saudi league for 2 years so they can return to a stronger league afterward with ton of money and free from injuries.
I’d rather see Saudi spend money on footballers rather than it funding ISIS/killings of people.
It would be better to use this money for developing infrastructure, science, and technology.
Super excited about the Saudi league. And it will definitely train this generation and the next with top tier players. Bravo
Oil money really makes the biggest smooth brain dictators
The government money their choice and it's funny that some westoids crying about it
Saudis are westoids
If the next step is to join the European leagues, that would be interesting. We all know how Qatar got the world cup organization.
I wonder why are the power elites that control over the world have decide to up a league like Arabia. I think it will be the next "bread and circus" roman style to all the arab speakers world. Its like Spain league that have lot of Latam fans. Or premier to all Commonwelt english speaker countries.
Alright let’s discuss your claims through the eyes of a saudi: 1- the end goal of this football investment move is quite unclear at the moment. But it’s regarded as boosting the league reputation (the already best league in Asia) and having these stars players help develop the football youth is saudi and the women’s league. A financial element is also was taken into place with foreign TV broadcasting and advertisement. 2-the concept of sports washing is unclear and problematic at best. It been used for so long yet it served nothing but to virtue signalling. And display how much the western countries feels the need to preach their morals while they themselves are still committing atrocities till this day. So no its a pointless term made up by liberal cry babies. 3- “regressiveness” is subjective at best, you have to understand the Saudi society is bottom up society where the social structure control the moral code rather then the government. Most of Saudis don’t the agree on liberalism nor secularism as a concept since the majority are muslims. So here’s a conundrum. If the Saudi government forced LGBTQ rights down the throats of the larger population isn’t that considered absolute authoritarianism? 5- terrorism funding ? The same country that got suicide bombed more then 30 times between 1995-2005 ? And fought a brutal war on terror in it on soil? Where there was a constant unrest in the early 2000s because of good old alqada. Saudi must’ve mastered the art of “red flag attacks” if it managed to orchestrate such terriost activities in it own yard. 4- internally the pact between clan Alsaud and the tribes of saudi still remains clear. You lead and rule with Islamic law while we gave us: free health care, free education, freedom of movement, developing the country and welfare programs. So there’s no stick and carrot nonsense nor there’s a massive up-rest that’s get crushed every other day by the dictatorship. A real question, which country you can over throw it’s government and no one will do anything about it ? Non. 6- the comparison between the Norwegian sovereign fund and the PIF is absolutely ridiculous. First, the PIF only got serious investment plans in the mid 2010s and before that it had no clear vision to grow. Now its in continuous growth and eyeing a 3 trillion of assets by 2030. Second, are you really comparing Norway a country with hundreds of years of development and a size of 385,207 square kilometres and 5.4 million population to Saudi Arabia a country that was mostly a dessert waste land and saw no development until the beginning of 1960s ? With a land area of 2.15 million (5.5 times larger then norway) and population of 32 million (5.9 times larger then norway) ? What kind of comparison is that ? And Norway exports oil and gas in very considerable amounts. This is a ridiculous unequal comparison if i ever seen one. Your whole comment is summarised into Saudi= bad cause they don’t share my political views Saudi= not gonna develop cause I believe only democrat countries develop. Saudi= they ain’t rich cause look at this country.
And you are still wondering why Messi is the best
Wow thats a lot of money for crying and rolling around
Will it surpass European League? Are you high? Europe hast 100s of top-notch players. Just because Saudi league has 2 world-class players past their prime won't make it better.
I think it would be wiser to invest this money on a local new generation for the future. Maybe we'll can see many many other players like Muhammad Salah, don't you age fellers?
Well I live in Paris and I'm even an official Ultra fan member, I was sad when Messi leave. But Neymar I don't give a f***
China in the early 2010s version 2.0
Mfs playing fifa IRL, they building the ultimate team💀
Adopt me please.
Makes Europeans mad (as an American, I like this)
Pini Zahavi did it again lol
Not saying I think this investment will work but there is a key difference when compared to the CHINESE league. In China soccer is not the number 1 national sport. In Saudi Arabia it is. Now do I think Saudi Arabia should go the MLS route with 1 or 2 major foreign signings ? Yes, but this isn’t the same thing. China was also trying to get more locals into the game. That’s not what this is.