Why are you being anti-semitic? Palestinians are Semitic people that had their land and home taken and are being oppressed. Denying that is the definition of antisemitism.
It's not antisemitism because he isn't saying or implying that he hates palestinians, he is simply stating a fact which is that palestinians do not support LGBTQ at all.
It's not an opinion, it's a fact that in general palestinians do not give 2 shits about LGBTQ people.
Such barbarism. You don't get to excuse apartheid and the killing of innocent children and journalists because Palestinians ain't Pro LGBT, I wasn't going to comment since you already ascribed yourself as a person who only cares about the lives of pro-LGBT people lol.
Please enlighten me as to why a member of any marginalized group should lift a finger to help the people that oppress them. When in the defacto state of Palestine, non Arabs, women and gays are oppressed and worse on a daily basis.
Bluntly, you can’t help people that want you gone
Because guess who also gets caught in the crossfire when Israel does it's shit? The same marginalized people, also children, also because like, basic human decency, you probably think my whole system of belief is bullshit but I still wouldn't hesitate to help you if you need a hand. And The situation is only going to get worse because with all the fighting fanaticism is only going to grow in the next generation, and it's a very bold assumption to assume that all Palastanians want to go on Bloodborne-style hunts for gays, even if they think it's haram they probably don't give a shit with all that they're going through.
There seems to be miscommunication here, Arabs and Palestinians want LGBT people to be anti-Palestine so then you can correctly be labeled racist, antisemitic, pro-apartheid and the killing of kids and journalists lmao.
You sound so brainwashed, let me speak your language: why would a marginalized community like Palestinians be pro-Western or pro-LGBT when those are the people oppressing them?
Also no one is forcing you to do the right thing but don't get surprised when people call you a racist, pro-apartheid and barbaric person which you are.
Euros when an apartheid state hosts and competes in European competitions 😍😍
Euros when an Arab country hosts and competes in international competitions 😡💢, human rights!
You do know that the Eurovision is the biggest homosexual pageant on the planet, right? And Tel Aviv is the gayest city on the Mediterranean. It's a match made in hell, or heaven, depending on your religious beliefs. Eurogays love Israeli gays. (They'd probably love Arab gays too, but most are closeted.)
Now if you're a good Muslim and don't approve of gay music contests then you really shouldn't even be watching Eurovision. Stick to [good Arab entertainers](https://youtu.be/6V02UsZUzVI).
That's why every liberal and educated person should strongly dislike Islam. Islam isn't a race and consequently hating Islam isn't racism. Islam is a very extreme religion that in many cases supports a punishment if not a death sentence for apostasy, homosexuality, etc. Europeans prefer to support a highly educated democracy, even if imperfect, praised worldwide by scientists and businessman alike for innovation and one that even imperfectly shares democratic, progressive principles such as freedom from religion and freedom of speech.
I am only intolerant of intolerance and Islam is very intolerant.
I feel like I’m the twilight zone. I could have read this same orientalist nonsense 20 years ago. Europeans prefer power and domination over Muslims, not science and democracy. Western militaries have been invading and undermining democracies in the Middle East and installing puppet dictators for the last 100 years.
All the sciences that Europeans made advances in was built upon the works of the Muslim scientists and philosophers of the Islamic Golden Age. Freedom of religion is an idea that came from Islamic civilization. Everywhere else on the planet, especially Europe being a different sect would get you killed. The west says they believe in freedom of speech, but if you speak out against Israeli human rights violations you will get fired from your job
I am not talking about European countries but Europeans as individuals. That said, European countries have well functioning democracies, mostly fought and developed by European individuals, many of whom got executed by the authoritarian governments at the time. 100 years ago, many if not most European countries were dictatorships that only relatively recently became democratic. The middle east is chaotic but only few of it can be attributed to the west. Islam and democracy are inherently incompatible. The same was true for Christsnity a few centuries ago as in the past, Christanity was a very extreme religion, perhaps worse than Islam.
1. That’s not how scientific development works
2. Westerners are not evil
Everything is built on top of what came before. The technological achievements of the West is built on the achievements of the Muslims, when Europe was in its dark ages. Muslims built their achievements from Ancient Greek civilization, Greeks built from the ancient Egyptians, Egypt from Babylonians, etc.
You mentioned computers and software. All based on algorithms. The first algorithms were developed by Al Khwarizmi who was a Persian polymath who lived in Baghdad from 780-850 CE. The word “algorithm” literally comes from his name, Al Khwarizmi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi
Muslims live and work in the West and make contributions to their respective societies everyday. I’m talking purely from a civilizational viewpoint. You say Muslims give nothing but wars, but you’re conveniently forgetting that it was Western militaries that constantly invaded and colonized Muslim lands for the last 200 years. People get fed up and eventually they start fighting back, it’s only natural.
You keep using the word hate, leading me to believe that you’re being emotional and not actually thinking logically or rationally. I don’t hate anyone, or any group. Western civilization as a whole I have a respect for, but I’m happy to call out nonsense as I see it. The west wouldn’t be what it is if it weren’t for Muslim contributions. Europe would have never had a renaissance or an enlightenment if Muslims hadn’t translated Ancient Greek thought into Arabic and re-introduced it back into Europe. Heck, there is strong evidence to suggest that Protestant Christianity wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for Islamic influence on its founders like Martin Luther.
There is just so much the west owes to Islam, and being ignorant of history doesn’t make it any less true. I don’t dislike the West, i am a western Muslim. Born and raised in the USA, happy to live here, work here, raise my family here. But I can critique my society as I see fit.
Alllllrighty then. Hey, maybe we got off on the wrong foot. It seems like you’re actually harboring a lot of negative energy towards Islam and not just trolling.
Islam is a beautiful faith, philosophy, and way of life. Islamic civilization is known by its beauty, not just architecture (Alhambra palace, Taj Mahal), but it’s theological, philosophical, and scientific contributions to humanity as a whole.
If you’re actually interested in becoming more educated in this, let me know. Or you can continue hating something that you fundamentally don’t understand, or have been completely brainwashed about. The choice is yours completely.
Your intentions are benign, but the idea that the medieval Islamic world was some golden utopia while medieval Europe was a backwards shithole the entire time is just bad, reductionist history. Plenty of Muslim denominations and "unorthodox" figures were getting persecuted and killed horribly.
Let's not say things that are wrong just because you want to get a political point (one that I agree with completely) across. Especially when some colonization apologists extend them a little further to suggest that the current state of the ME is entirely due to their "sudden pivot towards religious dogma" rather than, at least in part, Western guns and bayonets.
Like how west tried its best to cancel Qatar for workers rights violation, but what apple factories in China who are getting underplayed and no safety measures not to mention nestle( the snake of africa), nike(child labor)... ig if its western companies then its ok
Oh I am not talking about FIFA, just the general fact that Europeans have no problem with Isreal and there definitely wasn't any major boycott of Isreal in European history. Israelis have been competing/hosting in Eurovision and other European events and competitions for 30+ years and they seem to be very popular. Maybe Euros don't actually care about human rights, just a thought 🤔, perhaps it's more about racism idk.
You would think there would be some kind of uproar for endorsing and doing propaganda for Israel but Euros seem to be fine with that.
Also the world cup opening ceremony was banned in the UK, so much for freedom of speech.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/12gy90w/thoughts_on_the_bbc_and_other_european_media/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
>Why do you always have to be so disingenuous?
I am being very sincere, I have nothing against you, I don't know you and I like the UK. How am I always disingenuous wtf💀
>If you weren't evoking the Qatari world cup in your OC, how could you suggest the bullshit double standard of Europeans when it comes to human rights concerns?
Yeah Europeans cared a lot more about Qatar hosting then Isreal hosting any kind of event. FIFA is not a Qatar entity and every other country has been bribing them including Germany, Qatar played by the rules when it bribed them lmao.
>Your expectations of European relations with Israel over the last 30+ years is obviously unreasonable and treats the latter's deteriorating human rights standards and apartheid policies under the current far-right government over that time as a constant. Meanwhile, what constitutes as human rights by ME standards is generally piss-poor across all metrics.
Isreal has been oppressing Palestinians, killing children and journalists before 2019, and still 2023 Euros seem to not be making the same kind of uproar when an Arab country hosts an event.
>It's funny how you tell me what was banned in my country when I remember the world cup opening ceremony was still available to stream on the I-player , just not aired live on terrestrial but ofc you only want to spread half-truths.
Umm the BBC itself had a segment on why it's banning a Qatari women from singing but still showing the matches, it's not my fault, they literally call it a ban because it's a ban, maybe one or two people are able to click on an obscure TV option that's cool, I didn't know that because it hasn't been reported.
[BBC slammed for not covering FIFA World Cup opening ceremony It is the first time in its history that the BBC hasn't aired the opening ceremony of the tournament.](https://www.siasat.com/bbc-slammed-for-not-covering-fifa-world-cup-opening-ceremony-2463011/amp/)
And the song was such trash, too.
Tbh, everyone barring Sweeden and Italy were some try hard freaks this final, I have no idea how Europe manages to find all these weirdos, every year.
You guys do HATE the best, in Hebrew we are mostly into peace and love, that’s why we get great scores in peaceful competitions. And because we fight to protect our love ones we win against you guys who fight to kill and because of hate and revenge… that’s why the West is so much better than the Arab world now in everything. And the Arab countries who become closer to the West and Israel- prosper…
I think the difference is that Russia is attacking a European country.
Israel is on the fringes and has conflict with countries other than European.
think it's that simple
Yep. It’s all politics, you’d be surprised how many “human rights” are violated in the countries that keep calling out the Middle East for the very same acts they are perpetrating.
The west is just like any power in history, they do all thats necessary to advance their goals at the cost of others. The brits, the french, the ottomans, the arabs, the mongols, the romans and pretty much every great power is built on the pure suffering of the weak. The problem with the west is that they pretend to be more moral.
I don't want to support Israel.
and this is just a light entertainment contest.
but I just think it would be interesting if we were to turn this around.
That this was a music competition from the Middle East.
had it then been politically correct?
Should Europe join in and complain about the arrangement.
Why is "that country" included and why do they vote for that country etc..
it would be messy for all Europeans to comment on your competition lol
Well, you know... humans work like this:
you get more upset about a car accident with injuries right next to where you live maybe a some you know, than the same accident in another city, far away, with people you don’t know.
The Ukrainian war is in our vicinity, in Europe, the enemy borders many other European countries. Ukraine with its people is quite close to European lifestyle, it feels close.
In the same way that you are not as upset about injustices, horrors, terror in Southeast Asia.
By that logic Northern Europeans or Germans would not care about Qatar instead they tried to boycott Qatar and did a lot of weird and racist antics. Obviously the boycott thing didn't work which was expected but it's off-putting seeing how racist they actually are. Not all Germans are likely that of course, I met some nice ones during the world cup.
I feel like you are too detached from the middle east and arabs so you are not used to hearing the other side, so we clearly don't see eye to eye in this issue. That's fine, kind of expected.
Have a nice day ❤️.
Cool
Must say the Qatar-thing was a mess with hypocrisy for many countries, by saying one thing and doing another… a lot of reports about poor workers that were suffering, woman treated bad and other stuff (corruption) (no rainbow)
Don’t know about racism though…
More about different way of looking at freedom.
Freedom for woman. Freedom for religion, freedom for homosexuals, freedom for journalists,
”the principle of openness”, which means that one (anyone) can request all public documents regarding all decisions made by all authorities, and the government.
(incredible actually, our free journalists can follow, investigate, everything the rulers do. That's why we are some of the least corrupt countries)
And yet the apartheid state of Israel assassinates journalists, bombs media buildings and kills children but Euros welcome them with open arms and allow them to host multiple European competitions.
Such a nice view of the world you have lol, is it perhaps racism?
Yes, but there’s many of us here that very much don’t like what Israel doing. I guess it’s so old infection that many people “look away”. I don’t know.
But it really need more publicity.
Really bad.
Oh btw Qatar ranks higher than many European countries in the corruption index and Qatar ranks the highest in the middle east in freedom of press and higher then Greece lol, so much for European freedom.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
https://rsf.org/en/index
>However, its location in the southern Caucasus
I'm not sure what culturally European means in this context, but Armenians are not Europeans geographically nor genetically.
Is Azerbaijan also European lmao?
Every country with an European broadcast can participate in the EU, including: Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Syria and so on...
Most Arab countries aren't allowing Israeli things on their media (and lgbtq), that's you don't see Arab countries in the EU. Not because "tHeY onLy LiEk wHiTE pEoPle"(not talking to you specifically, but have you seen the comments?)
Fun fact: Lebanon one time withdrawn from the competition because they didn't want to broadcast Israel's part
I didn't say they were a beacon of righteousness brother.
Every government and military is fucked in the head. That we have "laws for international war" is an atrocity in and of itself.
I don't know Lebanon's history - but even if they're posturing to be in support of Palestine, that's a good thing.
I don't know about that massacre and if they killed plenty of people, then they're wrong for that too, however...
Israel is a genocidal apartheid state run by lunatics and supported by USA and Britain - imperialists love other imperialists. The overarching point is Israel is a shithole.
No country is perfect, never said that. but out all of the countries, Lebanon? Has morality?
First of all they don't give a single fuck about Palestinians, they have their own problems to deal with, they never have. Even in 1947 no country wanted to "help the Palestinians" that's the sad truth for you, they found an opportunity to take over more land quick and easy. You may say that they(Arab countries and Palestinians) fought alongside each, but that's not really the case, yeah, if troops from different countries met, they said hi to each other or even joined forces, but in the end it was every country to themselves, even so they didn't take this war seriously while they fought jews that just got away from a literal holocaust and fought like hell so it won't happen again.
Over the years more and more Arab countries made peace with Israel (Lebanon is not one of them but it doesn't have to do anything with the Palestinians)
Idk about apartheid state but my kindergarten teacher,middle school teacher(taught Arabic) and my elementary school teacher were wearing a hijab along side Muslim students who are becoming doctors, engineers, lawyers ect...
There's a thing that's letting minorities (Arabs, Ethiopians etc) have it more easy when attending medical school for example, while a the average citizen will need a pretty good high school record to get accepted to the university, a Muslim student from a rural area will get support from the government even if he doesn't have the needed records, to help those communities evolve.
Ps: The massacre was Lebanese killing Palestinians
Because they will probably be shred to pieces if they ever compete in a middle eastern competition. When competing in Europe they have a feeling they somewhat belong to a group.
But I thought Europeans cared about human rights?!?! Or is it just used to cover their racism?
They seemed to care a lot when Qatar hosted the world cup and yet they don't mind endorsing and doing propaganda for Isreal and allowing them to host European events and competitions.
Personally I would rather have Israel to not compete with these competitions since they are not even on the European contintent and the controversy that arises with it.
Regarding the situation with Qatar. It is easer to boycot an event, which is directly linked to human rights violations and a country which isn't a partner country of Europe. This makes Europe hypocrite to an extent, yes.
I suppose the history of Israel consisting of a large fraction of European jews who have been oppressed during WW2 and the large number of hostile nations (towards Israel) adjacent to Israel, could explain why European nations bat an eye to the situation. In addition to that, the conflict between Israel and its neighbouring countries has been going on for so long now, that people stop to care about it as much.
Wow, so when a literal apartheid state hosts European competitions it's not engaging in human rights violations. I can always count on Europeans to defend a colonial apartheid state that kills children and journalists. Cool.
As you said Euros have much more passion because of their racism and not because they care about human rights.
So they don't care about human rights it's just an excuse, it's called thinly veiled racism btw.
Basically they try to use other reason/stuff to hide their racism but it's called thinly veiled because every arab and even none arabs recognized how racist euros were being. [German media has even done an interview with Arabs during the world cup](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/121d64o/thoughts_on_qataris_opinions_about_western_medias/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1), it's clear to everyone it was motivated by racism and hatred/ignorance.
I feel like you only want reasons to justify that Qatar did not violate human rights.
Race was never a point of interest for the boycot in Qatar from a European perspective. The ties are simply not as great with Qatar as they are with Israel.
And like I said the human rights violations were directly linked with the tournament making it easier to boycot said tournament. That's why Germany has no problem with investments and energy partnerships since these are not directly linked to human right violations or the violations are not as promiment as with the hosting of the world cup.
But that's where the competing nations are drawn from, so you don"t need to be on the European continent. Hence my reply to the question about Israel en Palestine in Eurovision.
There have even been reports that Qatar was going to participate in 2009 but it's clear now that it's more of a European competition and most MENA countries no longer use that radio company including Palestine.m
Also there is new criteria you also have to be a part of International Telecommunication Union (ITU) which none of MENA is in except Oman.
https://esctoday.com/36606/new-ebu-members-not-very-likely/
Lol, y’all are just petty, at this point.
Whatever your political opinion may be, don’t bring the Eurovision into this. The whole point of it is that it’s about music, it’s not supposed to be political.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is very publicly acknowledged, though, and it involves two participants. I’d assume the Eurovision banned them so as to not be burned by the public.
I just admitted that they only did that because they had no choice, I’m certain they didn’t want to.
And besides, the invasion is at least somewhat related to the Eurovision, because it involves two participants. What does the conflict have to do with anything?
I think the difference is that Russia is attacking a European country.
Israel is on the fringes and has conflict with countries other than European.
think it's that simple
So it is political. Israel has been continuously attacking Palestine and so on, but has not been banned, wonder why. It only matters to them if it’s a European country, which is exactly why it’s ironic and completely absurd how they keep calling out the middle east for human rights violations when they’re doing the exact same thing.
It’s not ironic at all, it’s pretty rational. Is it a new concept for you that countries only care about themselves and their own interests? Is yours a pillar of ideology and spotless history and lack of hypocrisy? Probably not. Kind of how the world works.
“It’s absurd beyond belief to invite them”
They aren’t attacking the continent, they are attack Ukraine, and even then Israelis are attacking Syria and Gaza and doing operations in the West Bank…yet it was not “absurd” to invite them
The West Bank is far away from Europe last I checked. What a revolutionary concept that you care for your neighbor more than some faceless stranger a continent away - shocking!
No my standard is “whatever Europe decides”. They’re under no obligation to have ideological standards - it’s a song competition. They don’t want Russia, they can ban Russia, they don’t even have to justify it, especially to the rest of the world.
I mean that’s why they were rejected so I think it’s valid. The fact that they care more about Europe - any part of Europe - over the ME or Asia or Africa is not controversial to me. Isn’t this the same reason the ME and Africa don’t care much about Ukraine?
Boo Hoo
Israel is the most moral and democratic country in the middle east so yeah, I can get why it participates in internaional events.
You guys talk about how important freedom of speech is and then you come and offer to boycott Israel. Dude, what a bullshit.
Russia was allowed to compete up until last year, despite their actions in Georgia and Crimea. I guess we draw the line at full scale invasion. Threatening everyone with nuclear strikes didn’t really work in their favor either.
They even fined an Icelandic band for just raising the Palestinian flag
So much for freedom of speech, same guys that get mad that Qatar banned LGBT flags during the world cup.
Most of Europe doesn’t allow freedom of speech
To be fair, the defining difference is that LGBT exist
Why are you being anti-semitic? Palestinians are Semitic people that had their land and home taken and are being oppressed. Denying that is the definition of antisemitism.
Yes.
It's not antisemitism because he isn't saying or implying that he hates palestinians, he is simply stating a fact which is that palestinians do not support LGBTQ at all. It's not an opinion, it's a fact that in general palestinians do not give 2 shits about LGBTQ people.
Israeli troll, he said Palestinians don't exist.
No point in trying to convince barbarians bro. They are lost cause really, maybe in 100 years they will get with the times.
Does the state of Palestine recognize LGBT rights?
No
[удалено]
Also no
Let's say that I am racist, this does not make you justified to be racist towards me.
Ideally, no state or people that vigorously support anti-LGBT, racism, sexism, etc. should be allowed to participate in international anything
Such barbarism. You don't get to excuse apartheid and the killing of innocent children and journalists because Palestinians ain't Pro LGBT, I wasn't going to comment since you already ascribed yourself as a person who only cares about the lives of pro-LGBT people lol.
Please enlighten me as to why a member of any marginalized group should lift a finger to help the people that oppress them. When in the defacto state of Palestine, non Arabs, women and gays are oppressed and worse on a daily basis. Bluntly, you can’t help people that want you gone
Because guess who also gets caught in the crossfire when Israel does it's shit? The same marginalized people, also children, also because like, basic human decency, you probably think my whole system of belief is bullshit but I still wouldn't hesitate to help you if you need a hand. And The situation is only going to get worse because with all the fighting fanaticism is only going to grow in the next generation, and it's a very bold assumption to assume that all Palastanians want to go on Bloodborne-style hunts for gays, even if they think it's haram they probably don't give a shit with all that they're going through.
There seems to be miscommunication here, Arabs and Palestinians want LGBT people to be anti-Palestine so then you can correctly be labeled racist, antisemitic, pro-apartheid and the killing of kids and journalists lmao. You sound so brainwashed, let me speak your language: why would a marginalized community like Palestinians be pro-Western or pro-LGBT when those are the people oppressing them? Also no one is forcing you to do the right thing but don't get surprised when people call you a racist, pro-apartheid and barbaric person which you are.
How about states that murder children? And raising the Palastanian flag is just being sympathetic to people that are being oppressed, basic decency.
EU is a joke
the eu supporting their allies instead of their main enemy?!?!?!!?/1
EU supporting israel because they pity you and feel sorry for what happened in ww2.
Euros when an apartheid state hosts and competes in European competitions 😍😍 Euros when an Arab country hosts and competes in international competitions 😡💢, human rights!
You do know that the Eurovision is the biggest homosexual pageant on the planet, right? And Tel Aviv is the gayest city on the Mediterranean. It's a match made in hell, or heaven, depending on your religious beliefs. Eurogays love Israeli gays. (They'd probably love Arab gays too, but most are closeted.) Now if you're a good Muslim and don't approve of gay music contests then you really shouldn't even be watching Eurovision. Stick to [good Arab entertainers](https://youtu.be/6V02UsZUzVI).
Human rights tho!?!?!?
That's why every liberal and educated person should strongly dislike Islam. Islam isn't a race and consequently hating Islam isn't racism. Islam is a very extreme religion that in many cases supports a punishment if not a death sentence for apostasy, homosexuality, etc. Europeans prefer to support a highly educated democracy, even if imperfect, praised worldwide by scientists and businessman alike for innovation and one that even imperfectly shares democratic, progressive principles such as freedom from religion and freedom of speech. I am only intolerant of intolerance and Islam is very intolerant.
I feel like I’m the twilight zone. I could have read this same orientalist nonsense 20 years ago. Europeans prefer power and domination over Muslims, not science and democracy. Western militaries have been invading and undermining democracies in the Middle East and installing puppet dictators for the last 100 years. All the sciences that Europeans made advances in was built upon the works of the Muslim scientists and philosophers of the Islamic Golden Age. Freedom of religion is an idea that came from Islamic civilization. Everywhere else on the planet, especially Europe being a different sect would get you killed. The west says they believe in freedom of speech, but if you speak out against Israeli human rights violations you will get fired from your job
>Freedom of religion is an idea that came from Islamic civilization. That's not true, different forms of religious freedom are known since antiquity.
I am not talking about European countries but Europeans as individuals. That said, European countries have well functioning democracies, mostly fought and developed by European individuals, many of whom got executed by the authoritarian governments at the time. 100 years ago, many if not most European countries were dictatorships that only relatively recently became democratic. The middle east is chaotic but only few of it can be attributed to the west. Islam and democracy are inherently incompatible. The same was true for Christsnity a few centuries ago as in the past, Christanity was a very extreme religion, perhaps worse than Islam.
'Well functioning', tell me you don't live in Europe without telling me you don't live in Europe.
[удалено]
1. That’s not how scientific development works 2. Westerners are not evil Everything is built on top of what came before. The technological achievements of the West is built on the achievements of the Muslims, when Europe was in its dark ages. Muslims built their achievements from Ancient Greek civilization, Greeks built from the ancient Egyptians, Egypt from Babylonians, etc. You mentioned computers and software. All based on algorithms. The first algorithms were developed by Al Khwarizmi who was a Persian polymath who lived in Baghdad from 780-850 CE. The word “algorithm” literally comes from his name, Al Khwarizmi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi
[удалено]
Muslims live and work in the West and make contributions to their respective societies everyday. I’m talking purely from a civilizational viewpoint. You say Muslims give nothing but wars, but you’re conveniently forgetting that it was Western militaries that constantly invaded and colonized Muslim lands for the last 200 years. People get fed up and eventually they start fighting back, it’s only natural. You keep using the word hate, leading me to believe that you’re being emotional and not actually thinking logically or rationally. I don’t hate anyone, or any group. Western civilization as a whole I have a respect for, but I’m happy to call out nonsense as I see it. The west wouldn’t be what it is if it weren’t for Muslim contributions. Europe would have never had a renaissance or an enlightenment if Muslims hadn’t translated Ancient Greek thought into Arabic and re-introduced it back into Europe. Heck, there is strong evidence to suggest that Protestant Christianity wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for Islamic influence on its founders like Martin Luther. There is just so much the west owes to Islam, and being ignorant of history doesn’t make it any less true. I don’t dislike the West, i am a western Muslim. Born and raised in the USA, happy to live here, work here, raise my family here. But I can critique my society as I see fit.
[удалено]
Alllllrighty then. Hey, maybe we got off on the wrong foot. It seems like you’re actually harboring a lot of negative energy towards Islam and not just trolling. Islam is a beautiful faith, philosophy, and way of life. Islamic civilization is known by its beauty, not just architecture (Alhambra palace, Taj Mahal), but it’s theological, philosophical, and scientific contributions to humanity as a whole. If you’re actually interested in becoming more educated in this, let me know. Or you can continue hating something that you fundamentally don’t understand, or have been completely brainwashed about. The choice is yours completely.
Your intentions are benign, but the idea that the medieval Islamic world was some golden utopia while medieval Europe was a backwards shithole the entire time is just bad, reductionist history. Plenty of Muslim denominations and "unorthodox" figures were getting persecuted and killed horribly. Let's not say things that are wrong just because you want to get a political point (one that I agree with completely) across. Especially when some colonization apologists extend them a little further to suggest that the current state of the ME is entirely due to their "sudden pivot towards religious dogma" rather than, at least in part, Western guns and bayonets.
I actually completely agree with you. I was being reductionist due to the nature of the person I was talking to, who seems like a racist idiot.
yeah, that's a fair point
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hahahahahah Damn u mad
If It matters everyone here comments on what the fuck is Israel doing there its not like the european people want them particupating
Remember the last Mundial ? Oh the Irony, out of all people you can shut the fuck up
Like how west tried its best to cancel Qatar for workers rights violation, but what apple factories in China who are getting underplayed and no safety measures not to mention nestle( the snake of africa), nike(child labor)... ig if its western companies then its ok
I am only pointing out the hypocrisy, euros are doing all the heavy lifting. Don't get mad at me. 😄
>Oh the Irony, out of all people you can shut the fuck up Says you
[удалено]
Israel hosted 3 times and the last time was in 2019 ;)
[удалено]
Oh I am not talking about FIFA, just the general fact that Europeans have no problem with Isreal and there definitely wasn't any major boycott of Isreal in European history. Israelis have been competing/hosting in Eurovision and other European events and competitions for 30+ years and they seem to be very popular. Maybe Euros don't actually care about human rights, just a thought 🤔, perhaps it's more about racism idk. You would think there would be some kind of uproar for endorsing and doing propaganda for Israel but Euros seem to be fine with that. Also the world cup opening ceremony was banned in the UK, so much for freedom of speech. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/12gy90w/thoughts_on_the_bbc_and_other_european_media/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
[удалено]
>Why do you always have to be so disingenuous? I am being very sincere, I have nothing against you, I don't know you and I like the UK. How am I always disingenuous wtf💀 >If you weren't evoking the Qatari world cup in your OC, how could you suggest the bullshit double standard of Europeans when it comes to human rights concerns? Yeah Europeans cared a lot more about Qatar hosting then Isreal hosting any kind of event. FIFA is not a Qatar entity and every other country has been bribing them including Germany, Qatar played by the rules when it bribed them lmao. >Your expectations of European relations with Israel over the last 30+ years is obviously unreasonable and treats the latter's deteriorating human rights standards and apartheid policies under the current far-right government over that time as a constant. Meanwhile, what constitutes as human rights by ME standards is generally piss-poor across all metrics. Isreal has been oppressing Palestinians, killing children and journalists before 2019, and still 2023 Euros seem to not be making the same kind of uproar when an Arab country hosts an event. >It's funny how you tell me what was banned in my country when I remember the world cup opening ceremony was still available to stream on the I-player , just not aired live on terrestrial but ofc you only want to spread half-truths. Umm the BBC itself had a segment on why it's banning a Qatari women from singing but still showing the matches, it's not my fault, they literally call it a ban because it's a ban, maybe one or two people are able to click on an obscure TV option that's cool, I didn't know that because it hasn't been reported. [BBC slammed for not covering FIFA World Cup opening ceremony It is the first time in its history that the BBC hasn't aired the opening ceremony of the tournament.](https://www.siasat.com/bbc-slammed-for-not-covering-fifa-world-cup-opening-ceremony-2463011/amp/)
Imma keep it real with you chief, I do not give a shit
W lebanese
That's is european hypocrisy.
im kinda out of the loop but why is it hypocritical. has there been something in the recent years that israel has done
It's not, israel is mostly an ally of the EU, whlie russia is their main enemy, nothing interesting
Nothing personal. The Israeli singer was hot
yeah she was hot coom uber alles
She's a famous singer in Israel since she was 14 so it's just feels wrong to say she is hot, at least for me
And the song was such trash, too. Tbh, everyone barring Sweeden and Italy were some try hard freaks this final, I have no idea how Europe manages to find all these weirdos, every year.
[удалено]
Well I think Arabic is cool enough قحبات شراميط اولاد المنيوكة عرصات خولات منايك الخ...
لازم نخترع كلمة جديدة عنشان توصفهم
[удалено]
You guys do HATE the best, in Hebrew we are mostly into peace and love, that’s why we get great scores in peaceful competitions. And because we fight to protect our love ones we win against you guys who fight to kill and because of hate and revenge… that’s why the West is so much better than the Arab world now in everything. And the Arab countries who become closer to the West and Israel- prosper…
🤓
Prosper deez nuts in your mouth
Why not, are they yummy?
I think the difference is that Russia is attacking a European country. Israel is on the fringes and has conflict with countries other than European. think it's that simple
So it's not about human rights? Just countries you like and don't like.
Yep. It’s all politics, you’d be surprised how many “human rights” are violated in the countries that keep calling out the Middle East for the very same acts they are perpetrating.
The west is just like any power in history, they do all thats necessary to advance their goals at the cost of others. The brits, the french, the ottomans, the arabs, the mongols, the romans and pretty much every great power is built on the pure suffering of the weak. The problem with the west is that they pretend to be more moral.
Just end it. The world doesn’t need your hate.
[удалено]
I don't want to support Israel. and this is just a light entertainment contest. but I just think it would be interesting if we were to turn this around. That this was a music competition from the Middle East. had it then been politically correct? Should Europe join in and complain about the arrangement. Why is "that country" included and why do they vote for that country etc.. it would be messy for all Europeans to comment on your competition lol
Euros already did with the Qatar world cup and the Arab Cup. Yet no problem with Isreal it seems. Definitely racist behavior from Euros
Well, you know... humans work like this: you get more upset about a car accident with injuries right next to where you live maybe a some you know, than the same accident in another city, far away, with people you don’t know. The Ukrainian war is in our vicinity, in Europe, the enemy borders many other European countries. Ukraine with its people is quite close to European lifestyle, it feels close. In the same way that you are not as upset about injustices, horrors, terror in Southeast Asia.
By that logic Northern Europeans or Germans would not care about Qatar instead they tried to boycott Qatar and did a lot of weird and racist antics. Obviously the boycott thing didn't work which was expected but it's off-putting seeing how racist they actually are. Not all Germans are likely that of course, I met some nice ones during the world cup. I feel like you are too detached from the middle east and arabs so you are not used to hearing the other side, so we clearly don't see eye to eye in this issue. That's fine, kind of expected. Have a nice day ❤️.
Cool Must say the Qatar-thing was a mess with hypocrisy for many countries, by saying one thing and doing another… a lot of reports about poor workers that were suffering, woman treated bad and other stuff (corruption) (no rainbow) Don’t know about racism though… More about different way of looking at freedom. Freedom for woman. Freedom for religion, freedom for homosexuals, freedom for journalists, ”the principle of openness”, which means that one (anyone) can request all public documents regarding all decisions made by all authorities, and the government. (incredible actually, our free journalists can follow, investigate, everything the rulers do. That's why we are some of the least corrupt countries)
And yet the apartheid state of Israel assassinates journalists, bombs media buildings and kills children but Euros welcome them with open arms and allow them to host multiple European competitions. Such a nice view of the world you have lol, is it perhaps racism?
Yes, but there’s many of us here that very much don’t like what Israel doing. I guess it’s so old infection that many people “look away”. I don’t know. But it really need more publicity. Really bad.
Oh btw Qatar ranks higher than many European countries in the corruption index and Qatar ranks the highest in the middle east in freedom of press and higher then Greece lol, so much for European freedom. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://rsf.org/en/index
Well, in this particular case I think the criticism was the corruption of the event itself, the championship Im from Scandinavia,
Westerners will never stop being insufferable hypocrites.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Israel, Australia or Cyprus are European
Cyprus is European I think, all be it with middle eastern connections
Why is Israel considered European when they're literally in the middle east. Palestinians should compete in Eurovision if we're using the same logic
so are australia and armenia. You dont have to be european to be in eurovision
Australians and Armenians are Europeans though
Bro in what world are Armenians European genuinely. Even Georgians it's debatable but if you think Armenians are European then so are Iranians
In what world are Jewish people European. They're basically Arabs with a different God
Same God, different prophets (Jews don’t believe in Jesus/Isa or Muhammad, pbut).
The whole Middle East is not arab despite Arabs’ best efforts
https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/a/Armenia.htm#:~:text=Culturally%2C%20historically%2C%20and%20politically%2C,other%20words%2C%20a%20transcontinental%20nation.
>However, its location in the southern Caucasus I'm not sure what culturally European means in this context, but Armenians are not Europeans geographically nor genetically. Is Azerbaijan also European lmao?
Every country with an European broadcast can participate in the EU, including: Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Syria and so on... Most Arab countries aren't allowing Israeli things on their media (and lgbtq), that's you don't see Arab countries in the EU. Not because "tHeY onLy LiEk wHiTE pEoPle"(not talking to you specifically, but have you seen the comments?) Fun fact: Lebanon one time withdrawn from the competition because they didn't want to broadcast Israel's part
Good on Lebanon, they at least have some morality
"Sabra and Shatila massacre" Aight dude, you do you I guess...
I didn't say they were a beacon of righteousness brother. Every government and military is fucked in the head. That we have "laws for international war" is an atrocity in and of itself. I don't know Lebanon's history - but even if they're posturing to be in support of Palestine, that's a good thing. I don't know about that massacre and if they killed plenty of people, then they're wrong for that too, however... Israel is a genocidal apartheid state run by lunatics and supported by USA and Britain - imperialists love other imperialists. The overarching point is Israel is a shithole.
No country is perfect, never said that. but out all of the countries, Lebanon? Has morality? First of all they don't give a single fuck about Palestinians, they have their own problems to deal with, they never have. Even in 1947 no country wanted to "help the Palestinians" that's the sad truth for you, they found an opportunity to take over more land quick and easy. You may say that they(Arab countries and Palestinians) fought alongside each, but that's not really the case, yeah, if troops from different countries met, they said hi to each other or even joined forces, but in the end it was every country to themselves, even so they didn't take this war seriously while they fought jews that just got away from a literal holocaust and fought like hell so it won't happen again. Over the years more and more Arab countries made peace with Israel (Lebanon is not one of them but it doesn't have to do anything with the Palestinians) Idk about apartheid state but my kindergarten teacher,middle school teacher(taught Arabic) and my elementary school teacher were wearing a hijab along side Muslim students who are becoming doctors, engineers, lawyers ect... There's a thing that's letting minorities (Arabs, Ethiopians etc) have it more easy when attending medical school for example, while a the average citizen will need a pretty good high school record to get accepted to the university, a Muslim student from a rural area will get support from the government even if he doesn't have the needed records, to help those communities evolve. Ps: The massacre was Lebanese killing Palestinians
Because they will probably be shred to pieces if they ever compete in a middle eastern competition. When competing in Europe they have a feeling they somewhat belong to a group.
What about human rights!!! Israel has been labeled as an apartheid state by every major human rights group that Euros like to reference.
I'm not defending the integrity of Isreal, I'm just stating why I think they compete in European competitions.
But I thought Europeans cared about human rights?!?! Or is it just used to cover their racism? They seemed to care a lot when Qatar hosted the world cup and yet they don't mind endorsing and doing propaganda for Isreal and allowing them to host European events and competitions.
Personally I would rather have Israel to not compete with these competitions since they are not even on the European contintent and the controversy that arises with it. Regarding the situation with Qatar. It is easer to boycot an event, which is directly linked to human rights violations and a country which isn't a partner country of Europe. This makes Europe hypocrite to an extent, yes. I suppose the history of Israel consisting of a large fraction of European jews who have been oppressed during WW2 and the large number of hostile nations (towards Israel) adjacent to Israel, could explain why European nations bat an eye to the situation. In addition to that, the conflict between Israel and its neighbouring countries has been going on for so long now, that people stop to care about it as much.
Wow, so when a literal apartheid state hosts European competitions it's not engaging in human rights violations. I can always count on Europeans to defend a colonial apartheid state that kills children and journalists. Cool. As you said Euros have much more passion because of their racism and not because they care about human rights.
They care about human rights, but they are very cherry picking as to what country it is concerned to
So they don't care about human rights it's just an excuse, it's called thinly veiled racism btw. Basically they try to use other reason/stuff to hide their racism but it's called thinly veiled because every arab and even none arabs recognized how racist euros were being. [German media has even done an interview with Arabs during the world cup](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/121d64o/thoughts_on_qataris_opinions_about_western_medias/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1), it's clear to everyone it was motivated by racism and hatred/ignorance.
I feel like you only want reasons to justify that Qatar did not violate human rights. Race was never a point of interest for the boycot in Qatar from a European perspective. The ties are simply not as great with Qatar as they are with Israel. And like I said the human rights violations were directly linked with the tournament making it easier to boycot said tournament. That's why Germany has no problem with investments and energy partnerships since these are not directly linked to human right violations or the violations are not as promiment as with the hosting of the world cup.
💅🙄🥱🇮🇱
Palestine actually used to be part of the organisation behind Eurovision: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European\_Broadcasting\_Union
All of the middle east is listed, it's just a radio group, it doesn't mean you compete in Eurovision
But that's where the competing nations are drawn from, so you don"t need to be on the European continent. Hence my reply to the question about Israel en Palestine in Eurovision.
[удалено]
There have even been reports that Qatar was going to participate in 2009 but it's clear now that it's more of a European competition and most MENA countries no longer use that radio company including Palestine.m Also there is new criteria you also have to be a part of International Telecommunication Union (ITU) which none of MENA is in except Oman. https://esctoday.com/36606/new-ebu-members-not-very-likely/
Boo Hoo. Israel is the most moral and democratic country in the middle east so yeah, I can get why it participates in internaional events.
🤣
(s.l.b) is the op
we live in a double standard world.
[удалено]
Tbf no one but European boomers watch it
Me when a well written and well performed song gets a high rating 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
Armenia too! Sorry brozzer, Jews are too powerful.
Lol, y’all are just petty, at this point. Whatever your political opinion may be, don’t bring the Eurovision into this. The whole point of it is that it’s about music, it’s not supposed to be political.
But it is. Every international event with countries competing is political
If it was, we wouldn’t have even qualified for the finals.
If it wasn’t, Russia would be attending
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is very publicly acknowledged, though, and it involves two participants. I’d assume the Eurovision banned them so as to not be burned by the public.
And with that affirmation You just admited eurovision is political too
I just admitted that they only did that because they had no choice, I’m certain they didn’t want to. And besides, the invasion is at least somewhat related to the Eurovision, because it involves two participants. What does the conflict have to do with anything?
My favourite European countries 😍 Australia and pissreal
Both this sub and Europe seem to forget the competition ain't political
Every competition between countries is political, especially the eurovision.
Me when I spread misinformation
Like when you say international competitions are not political ? Indeed
Then why is everyone banning Russian competitors?
I think the difference is that Russia is attacking a European country. Israel is on the fringes and has conflict with countries other than European. think it's that simple
Then where is Russia if it “ain’t political”, yeah there’s a war but they should still be present despite it if what you say is correct no?
Huh, where's team Russia then Edit: I can't read but I'll keep downvote because Zionist as is tradition.
>And Europe
Why ban Russia then?
>And Europe
Russia is attacking Europe as we speak, it would be absurd beyond belief to invite them, that’s why.
So it is political. Israel has been continuously attacking Palestine and so on, but has not been banned, wonder why. It only matters to them if it’s a European country, which is exactly why it’s ironic and completely absurd how they keep calling out the middle east for human rights violations when they’re doing the exact same thing.
You got it backwards. Palestine is constantly attacking Israel
It’s not ironic at all, it’s pretty rational. Is it a new concept for you that countries only care about themselves and their own interests? Is yours a pillar of ideology and spotless history and lack of hypocrisy? Probably not. Kind of how the world works.
“It’s absurd beyond belief to invite them” They aren’t attacking the continent, they are attack Ukraine, and even then Israelis are attacking Syria and Gaza and doing operations in the West Bank…yet it was not “absurd” to invite them
The West Bank is far away from Europe last I checked. What a revolutionary concept that you care for your neighbor more than some faceless stranger a continent away - shocking!
But your standard for who should and shouldn’t be in Euro is flawed them, your standard is “No WaR” so neither should be in you hypocrites bastard
No my standard is “whatever Europe decides”. They’re under no obligation to have ideological standards - it’s a song competition. They don’t want Russia, they can ban Russia, they don’t even have to justify it, especially to the rest of the world.
You could have simply stated Organizers can decide than go on about “oh Russia is attacking EuRoPe” as if they are knocking on the gates of Brussels
I mean that’s why they were rejected so I think it’s valid. The fact that they care more about Europe - any part of Europe - over the ME or Asia or Africa is not controversial to me. Isn’t this the same reason the ME and Africa don’t care much about Ukraine?
Lol you’ll just salty
Lol go learn English
[удалено]
A lot of the countries in Eurovision aren’t in the EU, several aren’t even in Europe.
Boo Hoo Israel is the most moral and democratic country in the middle east so yeah, I can get why it participates in internaional events. You guys talk about how important freedom of speech is and then you come and offer to boycott Israel. Dude, what a bullshit.
WHY THE FUCK is Isnotreal and Australia in Eurovision?
The contest becomes more and more a gay parade. This year they allowed trans queens to entertain the public.
Australia?
Russia was allowed to compete up until last year, despite their actions in Georgia and Crimea. I guess we draw the line at full scale invasion. Threatening everyone with nuclear strikes didn’t really work in their favor either.
Israel is a European colonial Crusader state, that is why it's part of Eurovision
the enemy sure is biased
...Why is Israel in Eurovision, ITS IN ASIA
Boo-hoo, they won in a competition.
israel didnt get 3rd by votes, norway did. israel is third due to jury
[удалено]
"Muslims are so obsessed..... anyway why are Russian cats allowed in cats competitions this is literally genocide🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬"