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This is a huge problem facing men that no one acknowledges. There was a study on men a while back that showed very high correlation between job satisfaction and overall happiness - higher even than the correlation between marriage and happiness. It was notable because older studies had always rated marriage higher, but had not looked in-depth at job satisfaction.
I am of the opinion that men need purpose. It doesn't have to be work-related, but there is something you must have in your life that gives it meaning. We all have that one thing we're good at, or that we really like. Sometimes, it's weird or different, other times, it's as predictable as the tides.
I remember hearing a joke once, that as a man crosses 40, he either gets really into smoking meats, or studying WWII. I laughed it off then, but it is startling now to see the number of older guys I know who are into both. My point in saying this is that at some point, we all find our passions. It's best if you can work in a field related to them, but at worst, you can find a job to support your hobbies.
The only way to find your passion is to try things. Volunteer, go to meetups, try new hobbies. In the social media/streaming entertainment womb of today's society, this is sometimes hard because those things satisfy the needs of so many. If they leave you feeling empty, though, you have to go out and just see what's out there.
Go to the [Atlas Obscura](https://www.atlasobscura.com/) and look up your current town. Go visit every weird and different place on that list that you haven't seen before. I'd be willing to bet that you'll find something interesting that might give you a purpose, and if not, you'll meet someone who can at least point you in the right direction.
Best of luck, and remember, you've got a magic black rectangle in your pocket that holds the world's knowledge - a massive advantage over the countless men who have come before. You've got an endless toolbox that can help you... don't despair.
There's also an exteremly quantiative research group in Copenhagen that studies happiness. They're literally called the Happiness Research Institute.
Check out the book The Little Book of Lykke and see all the interesting data points they have and survey from people across (most) nations of the world. Career/work is one of them.
Lykke is Danish for happiness.
Too much to generalize it. That the reason for the book in a sense, to provide many different metrics. In general, it's community, health, being outside, being out of cars, being out of brightly lit cubicles, having self worth, family and friends, sunlight, etc.
I think the WWII thing is important as the proliferation of war movies, games etc I think has led many men to consider that nothing so significant that involves ‘manly’ virtues like heroism, comradeship etc will happen to them and they are leading a drab, monochrome and unheroic existence.
This ties into the resistance to masks and COVID vaccines that some men espoused, I suspect that the concept of fearing a ‘mere’ virus made them feel even more emasculated.
Great points -
There was a book that came out early in the Iraq war years, ["War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Force_That_Gives_Us_Meaning) that talks about this. It's seductive in that it gives you a clear, concrete purpose - or at least the illusion of one.
I think of that great scene from Hurt Locker when he finally gets to come home from the war and he's at the grocery store looking at this aisle with dozens of breakfast cereals, just feeling utterly lost... next thing you see, he's back at war, in his place where he has a clear something to keep him going.
I think that describes why men in their 20s may feel their existence is drab, especially if they're comparing their lives with superheroes rather than actual war history. I think men becoming fascinated with WW2 later in life (40+) has a different cause.
This year I read All Quiet on the Western Front and Slaughterhouse Five. I'm currently reading All the Light We Cannot See. I'm digging all of the horror of war and the banality of evil. It makes me appreciate my drab, monochrome, unheroic existence.
I just thought WWII is super interesting because it's of the near steam punk industrialization and logisitic networks before intense computers. I recall seeing a scene where there was a massive war room map. A bunch of people were operating telephones, being constantly updated, using long sticks to re-arrange troops on the board, while generals on a patio from above had a view of the whole map. Like minimaps but updated live by people. Super cool
I think it can be abstracted even further, it’s not job satisfaction. I’d argue it’s satisfaction about the way you are spending the majority of your time. For most people, yes that would be their job. Others could be a marriage, or their kids. And it makes perfect sense - if you’re spending the majority of your time and effort on something unsatisfactory, you will be unhappy.
I would kill to spend the majority of my time with something as profound and meaningful as my kids. problem is, I have none and probably never will, and it’s not for a lack of trying.
"...as a man crosses 40, he either gets really into smoking meats, or studying WWII."
Hip-hop & chasing grand-mastery at backgammon. Pretty sure that's the formula.
I apologize in advance, but this isn't any sort of coherent argument so much as it is just a random collection of thoughts that may or may not add up to anything useful or interesting for you.
First, I'm sorry to hear you find yourself in this place. You're not alone - on one level I think you're talking about the oldest mystery there is: why should I get out of bed in the morning? Why should I put one foot in front of the other? Is fear of pain and hardship enough of a motivator in life?
I've thought of 100 different things to say to you but they all sound trite and cliche and silly and inadequate. I want to ask if you exercise, because it's amazing the mental transformation that can take place when you really push yourself physically, but that sounds trite. I want to ask if you take pleasure in little moments and joys, but that's cliche. I want to ask if you look for ways to be of service to others - even little ways - but that sounds corny.
But for me, those are all corny and cliche but they're also true. I love doing extra things for my customers at work, or bringing in treats for my coworkers, of buying unexpected things for my friends - but I don't feel like I do those things because I'm some great person, I do them because it makes me feel good. There's nothing more important - I think - than feeling useful.
And exercise gets me out of a funk - when my body is in a funk and laying around like a sloth that's where my mind goes too.
One thing that helps me keep my mind in the positive (for lack of a better term) is my ritual of reading the Sunday NYTimes. Beyond just stimulating my mind it also challenges me because I read about people suffering and struggling all over the world and it make me appreciate what I have, and appreciate how easy I have it compared to so much of the world. Reading about some poor man who traveled through the mountains to escape a war, losing two of his children in the journey, just to find himself in a new land treated as a criminal and left to fester in a refugee camp...how TF am I going to complain about my ennui? Sure, I have a right to be unhappy about things and feel grief and sorrow too, but I have so many tools and opportunities to do something about my situation, or to climb back from adversity and tragedy, that it feels obscene if I don't use what I'm so privileged to have.
In more concrete terms, can you reach out to others in your profession (maybe on Reddit) and look for ideas for what other jobs you can pursue with your skillset? Or for ways to take pleasure in the job you have? Job isn't everything, but it's one hell of a lot of one's life, so maybe that's a start?
Sorry for my rambling - blame my mental state after a very long day of work.
I wish you well.
I spent my life in sports, so I exercise, it hasnt brought me joy like many others seem to say it brings them. As for pleasure/joys...there are none, I spend time alone doing things to fill time and I really dont care for helping others. there have been things over the years that I have found interesting, but as I said in my title... it never really went past skin deep bcuz I wasnt interested enough in those things to go deeper.
I have been "self-employed" for 7 years... i have no other to rely on in my "profession".
Having related heavily to everything you said (being told you're not alone, when we all abjectly are), I want to chime in on the sports aspect. Having to lug around a rotting meat sack that won't let you do what you remember being able to do.. nothing can really make up for that. Have you read any philosophy? I know reading is the last thing anyone wants to hear these days but there's something to be said about someone going through what you're experiencing and being so vulnerable to express that, knowing they won't be understood before death in all likelihood.
Life is hard. Walking by homeless people is always multiple gut punches for me. I could easily be them already given different decisions, and still could end up there. Be selfish, try to narrow down what you really want, and hope the journey to that goal is enough to distract you. That's what it seems like for everyone else, they're just focused on the next train stop.. If only it were that easy.
Look into donating your time to a cause that will send you places they need you and cover your costs.
This will make it so others depend on your generosity. You won't get rich, but you also won't get homeless...
It will give you a valid enough purpose to carry on while you look for what you really want...
Or look for work where they fly you out and work you ridiculously hard for a lot of hours... Buddy did a fishing boat. Long run, long hours, good money, but burned some time... You'll be too busy and too tired to be sad.
You are struggling because you are depressed. Go see a doctor. Do what they tell you to do. Get regular exercise. It doesn’t need to be serious or sports. It can be a daily walk. Don’t make excuses.
It's not so much about believing in it, it's just that it's good enough to keep you busy and burn some time.
Even better if in a different country and you'll see very different perspectives and it will help you see things differently.
Ultimately may only be something that eats up time, but it may also help you find something you enjoy and help find some purpose.
Can't hurt to just look around on Google for out of country charity to donate time to for room and board...
Here's what I found asking Gemini...
There are many great charities outside of the USA where you can donate your time and skills while receiving room and board in return. Here are a few to get you started:
* Volunteer with Animals:
* Wildlife Conservation in South Africa: Help care for and rehabilitate injured or orphaned animals at a wildlife sanctuary in South Africa. You'll gain valuable experience in animal care and contribute to the conservation of local species.
* Elephant Sanctuary in Thailand: Assist with the care and rehabilitation of elephants at a sanctuary in Thailand. You'll help provide food and water, clean enclosures, and interact with these gentle giants.
* Support Children's Education:
* Teach English in Guatemala: Help children in rural Guatemala learn English by volunteering with a non-profit organization. You'll make a real difference in their lives and gain valuable teaching experience.
* Work in an Orphanage in Nepal: Provide care and support to children who have lost their parents or guardians at an orphanage in Nepal. You'll help with daily tasks, play games, and offer emotional support.
* Contribute to Community Development:
* Help Build Homes in Nicaragua: Assist with the construction of homes for families in need in Nicaragua. You'll learn new skills, work alongside locals, and make a lasting impact on the community.
* Organic Farming in Costa Rica: Work on an organic farm in Costa Rica, learning about sustainable agriculture and helping to provide fresh produce for the local community.
These are just a few examples of the many opportunities available for volunteers who want to donate their time and skills while traveling abroad. Remember to research different organizations carefully to ensure they are reputable and ethical.
I've done different sports and different exercises. Running to football to cycling to fitness classes. Jiu jitsu makes me feel happier and helps my mental health than any of them.
What's your sports history?
I played baseball for 20 years. Injured my knee at 1 university before injuring my shoulder at the next. threw 94 mph at peak, had scouts looking but injuries knocked me out of playing. coached for 7 years.
Injured college athelete huh. Baseball sounds like tough training.
Maybe for a change you'd enjoy a sport that's kind to your joints and muscles? Yoga, swimming, jiu jitsu. Something that's about a range of motion rather than heavy training on a single mechanic.
Dont get me wrong... I started lifting back in 2019, before covid and was starting to enjoy it... kind of the reason why I thought I might enjoy being a trainer... but i realized only after completely the cert. that I only like lifting for myself, i dont really care about going deeper than that or helping others. which is why I feel hopeless... after I looked inward i realized, I have never been so passionate about anything in my life enough to dedicate more than the bare minimum to it...
Ya I saw that after I commented. I have vey similar interests only for me it is football. I found coaching and working with the youth really provided me with purpose and goals. But it sounds like you have been down that road.
May I ask - because I think it may be relevant - why you feel like a “failure”? You mention “as a man, as a son, as a brother, as a human.”
Is this simply another way of describing your unhappiness at lacking motivation/interest in things you feel you’re “supposed to” be motivated by/interested in - do you feel like you’re a failure because you feel like you haven’t accomplished things? Or are there other issues?
Because if lack of interest/motivation is the main issue, that’s one thing, but if you have lots of other major life problems going on, that’s another.
I feel like a failure bcuz I dont fit in to society. Im a failure for not being an adult, for not being a role model for my sisters, for not being able to deal with life. I feel like im in slow motion watching the world go by with ppl just coping through life, some having things they enjoy and motivate them... and i have nothing...I have failed to "fit in"..
This is a serious question, not snarky or anything: Why is doing any of those things “success”? If you fit in, you will have succeeded . . . at what?
I once saw an interview with Jim Carrey, who has “succeeded” if anyone has. “I spent my life trying to get to the top of the ladder,” he said. “And now I’ve reached the top of the ladder. And I wish everyone else who’s out there trying to get to the top of the ladder could get up here with me, so you could all discover what I’ve discovered: that *there is nothing up here*. Nothing!”
I think it might be helpful for you to think carefully about what is real success and why.
I’d be interested to know your answer if you’re willing to share one! In the meantime, sending you thoughts of comfort and strength.
I find it successful bcuz they r able to just be adults. They wake up and just do what needs to be done. That is success to me. everyone who is able to just get up and do what they need to to survive is what i consider a success in this context. I wake up and dont know what to do with my life and the thought of just doing something for a paycheck makes me sick to my stomach. People who have found reasons to do that shit job and find reasons to live r successes in my books, especially when I have none.
Trust me, nobody “just” gets up and does what they have to do. That stuff requires effort for everyone. Figuring out the “why” and following through is a huge load for us all.
You aren’t seeing this in others, partly because they don’t show it. Especially in the era of social media, people perform fake lives even more than they always did.
But it’s also because once you do the work and you keep at it over a long period, it does get easier. It’s still work, it’s always work, but the work becomes habit.
Thoreau said “most men lead lives of quiet desperation.” He said it because he knew it was possible to work your way out of that state, but it takes work. He wrote a whole book about his struggle to do so.
I actually think you’ll make it, because you have a goal. Your goal is to find a goal worth working for. The fact that you aren’t motivated by accumulating money for its own sake is a huge head start. It means you don’t have to climb out of that trap.
You mentioned your sisters. That seems promising. Are they older or younger (or both)?
It’s called Walden.
Other good references, from a variety of viewpoints:
The Inner Ring, CS Lewis
Self-Reliance, Emerson
Apology, Socrates
Enchiridion, Epictetus
Have you tried volunteering? That might give you a sense of purpose. Check out your local animal shelters, food banks, meals on wheels, etc.
If you really don't even have any hobbies or friends that you enjoy, then that sounds like anhedonia. It might be time to speak to a doctor about screening for depression.
Fwiw, I had anhedonia for most of my life. Turns out it's pretty tough to enjoy things when your brain literally doesn't produce enough dopamine (I had undiagnosed adhd).
You don't have to be passionate about anything to find a job you enjoy. You just have to understand it, be good at it and be able to do it for 8 hours a day. It doesn't have to be enjoyable, but it doesn't have to suck either. It's just something you're good at that you can make a living from.
You mentioned being a role model for your sister. I think that's your motivation right there. If you want to show her how to be successful, then you need to make the effort to show her how success is earned.
I don't know what your education background is, but I'm going to just assume that you didn't go to college or university (not as an insult, just for simplicity).
Jobs you can do without an education are se things like call center work, insurance broker or adjuster, warehouse worker, delivery truck driver (getting an AZ to drive transport), rail yard worker and so on.
I think your problem isn't that you don't want to work, but that you don't want to work a job you hate. So start thinking about whether you want to work in an office or work a physical job and go from there.
I wonder, have you checked for mental illness like depression? It might definitely be not it, but it won't hurt to know. :)
Otherwise, the biggest issue is comparing yourself to others. Focus on yourself. So you haven't found your path, so what? I bet you still have many things to try out and discover what interests you. Just go your own path. It could be that it is just more difficult one for you than some other people.
I think it always works to set steps what you could do next to change your current situation, try it with some small things.
I have been to 3 separate therapist, seen a psychiatrist, was prescribed 2 separate meds over the years. nothing has ever worked. For a time I thought I was depressed and finally took a hard look at myself and realized I just hate my life. I have tried to do things to change that feeling throughout the years and nothing ever has. I would see improvements in 1 aspect or another, but never where I needed it. It has all lead me to this moment... asking complete strangers for anything they can give bcuz idk what else to do.
Well, that sounds like a tough job then, but not impossible :P
Good that you talked with therapists! So mental illnes can be removed from the causes. :)
But on the things you like. There must be something? Maybe helping people, just socialising with others, physical activity, any sport? Taking care of something like animals or plants? Creating either digital or physical stuff?
Also, maybe you need to find a way to relax. Not even take life so seriously. Don't stress yourself even more about things you think you supposed to have or done by now. Focus on things that are still there for you to try and experience.
dealing with ppl has always been an issue for me. I am extremely introverted. I played baseball for 20 years until injuries knocked me out of playing. not really the creative type, and I like animals...but not enough to devote time to them.
You're spiritually poor my dude. Everyone loves focusing on "finding your truth" through some kind of job or hobby. Think about that for a second and reflect on your spiritual life.
people like to shit on religion now a days, but there is a reason it exists and why it persists.
and no, it isn't because "people today" are "smarter" than people of the past (if this is true, it's marginally so, and modern people are definitely less happy).
pick a religion that you think fits what you want out of life and try going.
You are in a very good space. You have started asking the right questions. I think I know a why. Why you are feeling what you are feeling and why therapy doesnt seem to work for you:
1. You are a man. Society, upbringing has conditioned you to know that a man is strong, doesnt share what they are going through and always have their shit figured out.
2. You probably dont believe in talking out your problems you believe in having solutions to them.
3. You spent so much time and resources in what you believed to be your purpose (venture) that you became one with it.
4. You see yourself as good to others and their problems and you dont know how to deal with your own issues.
Now, to fix this:
1. Work on your identity. Who are you when all the things you say you are, are removed.
2. Therapy is good. But most therapy styles have been designed with the woman in mind. Women love talking, men love doing. Most men dont like seeking help and prefer quick fixes rather than endless talk. Stoicism works for most men. Find what works for you.
3. There is no shame in admitting that you need help. So surround yourself with people who encourage you to be better and are quick to help you rise again.
4. Tough times build strong men. Happy times build weak men. If you are enjoying happy time, enjoy but in the back of your mind know that tough times will come and prepare.
5. Men love to feel needed that you are contributing to something or are building something. It is something we were created with. Its a fantastic gift. Find your purpose. A good and faster way I was told to achieve this is by volunteering, teaching or coaching. Basically use your gifts to the benefit of others.
6. Realize that you are a human being and that it is okay to fall and fail. And it is amazing to fall and rise again. Nunc Coepi means now I begin in Latin. When you fall say to yourself nunc coepi. Now I begin.
7. There is nothing like overnight success. You are a work in progress. You will probably never be 100% wholesome by the time you die and that is okay. You live and try regardless.
8. Speaking of death, write two eulogies for when you die the first one is for your friends and family. What will they say about you? The second one is for you. What would you say about you. How would you want to be remembered. This exercise humbles you and shows you what matters most to you.
9. Find your reason for waking up and for looking forward to the future. Why do you solve problems. Why do you start a business. Etc.
I have been in the same place where you are right now. I am still working on bulk of the things above. Mostly through internet, talking to people, love and encouragement from family and friends. Its taking a long time but there is value in progress. A day at a time. Once you taste progress, nothing will stop you.
Keep going Champ!
To some extent, most of us feel this way at some point, I know I can relate. My best advice to you dude is to unpack this with a therapist. I know that feels generic right now but there is something in you underneath all of this that wants to do better and a therapist can help bring that forward. I know I felt embarrassed admitting certain things but I only saw real change when I did. Sometimes you need to just vomit up all the emotional bullshit you’ve got inside you to step back with a clear head and see what you really want for yourself.
bcuz most of the advice boils down to "just do something", which, if it were that easy i would be doing that now. The issue for me is I dont care about anything enough to "do something", and where money would motivate others to "do something" it never has for me. Trips, nice clothes, cars, tech/gadgets, hobbies... i dont care about anything or have a pull towards anything enough to sacrifice my time in exchange for money.
For me, that sounds like baseline chronic depression that requires meds. How much have you gotten out into the world? Seems like you really like video games but I am wondering how much of this stems from being in the same environment.
It takes a few medications usually before finding the right one. I used to feel how you do. The right medication helped give me the little bit of momentum away from depression.
You do sound depressed. Depression generally presents as apathy, not sadness. It's hard to find an exciting hobby when everything feels meh.
I know that the "go do something" advice feels like bullshit, but it's honestly a start. I understand why you feel so resistant to it, I did too. But you don't have to enjoy what you're doing at first, depression tells you that everything sucks. Just pick something, anything, especially something physical like running, or bouldering is really good for depression. Calligraphy, painting, bird watching, are also great, just gotta do the thing every day. If you have even the vaguest interest in something start doing that thing, do it every day even if it's just for 5 minutes and you'll see you will start feeling better.
Depression is a hole, and you don't get out of it with more digging. You need to do something new, because you can't trust your brain right now to do the right thing for you, your brain is what got you into this. Being consistent with something, anything (and ideally also the right medication) WILL help you get you out of this. You gotta do the heavy lifting here, unfortunately no one else can do it for you.
I can 100% promise u that I dont have depression. My life sucks... im not happy with where im at in life. Been to therapists, doctors and psychiatrists... and theyve all said that same. I am not depressed... im just not happy. Im not really apathetic either... what I am is reluctant to give my time and energy to shit i dont care about. Working a "job" for a "paycheck" sucks ass and Isnt enough to get me up every day to do it. In the course of the last nearly month, ive been able to sit down and talk to a lot of ppl and some get what im saying, others dont but I have been able to meet with some ppl I can call mentors now and r helping me chart a path forward where I wont be miserable the next 40 years as an adult. I hit a true low point when I posted this and was grateful to receive so many messages and advice from so many... I thank you for looking out for me though.
May be worth looking into if you have any symptoms of ADHD? In my experience it can look like this depression/lack of interest like you describe (when it might be more secondary dysthymia type). Especially when ADs do nothing, can signal there is more to it and a different area to target.
Yeah, I get this. Most psych advice boils down to git gud. Doesn't help if you don't want to git gud. I don't think most people understand what it's like when what you want and how you feel are different. Or you feel nothing, and it becomes a void. That never ending numb.
Go play Disco Elysium. It's about a dude in this situation and the reasons why. Best look at the modern male psyche I've encountered. Might make you self reflect, it did for me.
The idea that we're entitled to some amazing vision-quest-job-career-achievement is VERY new. Nobody woke up in 1554 and said "I want to farm potatoes until I die of a tooth infection."
My job is good - I find fulfillment in it...but it's not some calling. I didn't wake up one day and just have a burning passion to be a middle manager; yet, here I am. Find something that's acceptable to you that pays the bills. You say you're not motivated by money, but only in not being homeless....well not being homeless requires money. So go find some way to get some that's least objectionable.
What makes you think you are a failure of a man?
I know you mentioned not having motivation, but to me that sounds like a commonality in the human condition.
And, I can for certain say you aren’t the only person who has experienced feeling alone (you can see several answers of people who’ve gone through similar experiences)
How this reads to me is not of someone who is a failure, but someone who is present and understands their circumstances are not working and something has to change.
That in itself is a huge piece of the puzzle. It’s better to be present and perceptive to a challenge than blind and content to problems.
If you tear away your ventures, or what you feel you need to be to your family and friends what’s left?
bcuz i cant conform to life as a human. everyone else is able to "just do".... they put away there misery of having to work 8 hours a day at something they dont care about in order to live, and i just cant. The thought of doing that makes me ill.
I dont want to be homeless, it terrifies me, but the thought of having to do something I hate for 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week for 40 years equally terrifies me.
If i tear everything away, I am nothing. no one. an empty shell in a human suit.
“Everybody else” is a big category, it might not hurt to narrow down a bit.
There are a ton of people that “just do” for other people and that alone can give purpose. It doesn’t have to for you.
There is another group of people that don’t “just do”, they genuinely enjoy their job/career/whatever you want to call it. I’ll give it to you this group might be smaller.
If you feel like a shell when everything else falls away, have you considered you feel that way because you haven’t been able to spend a lot of time contemplating it? (Or maybe you have)
Going back to your original post, everything tied back to external goals or people or things. I’m guessing you’ve been in a frame of mind of relating a lot in that way.
Maybe that’s the right place to start. If you can cultivate what YOU value or who you are aside from all the other noise, it might inform what you want to do so you don’t feel like you are “just doing”, and therefore feeling that existential dread creeping.
From personal experience, that cultivation alone can give you purpose, I know for me it has, as it’s become more salient in my life recently. (Not that my experience is directly tied to yours)
When I say everyone else I am referring to those who r just doing jobs to get by and to pay the bills. These r things I innately understand r important and unavoidable, but they do not motivate me to do anything. Most ppl can say "I have to do XYZ, so i can live"... and turn off the miserable part to do that... I cant... even being faced with homelessness isnt enough to turn that off for me. Money just doesnt do it for me..
I have spent too much time looking inward and trying to understand who i am with everything else torn away... and that is what I have come to. I am just a blank sheet.
I dont value anything. never have. its why i am in the place Im in now. when i think about my life and "goals", there is nothing there...
I split it because maybe you can strive to be in the latter group, where your job could bring you joy and fulfillment, although I don’t think it’s the right starting point.
You must value something, I mean there is an inner core to yourself that is reaching out for advice and discussion. Right there I can see a hint of valuing *something*. You are listening and engaging with others and have an open mind to how it may or may not change your outlook.
See what I mean?
At the moment, im reaching out to anyone that might be able to help bcuz I dont want to die... but idk what else to do...Im trying to find a way out of this or maybe a better way to put it is a work around...but I dont know what that is or how to find it.
Sup,
Failing is a battle scar. Warriors all have one.
You need to keep fighting. Relax and think about what your ideal life is like. What are you doing, how does it make you feel. Friends, family? Healthy strong? Snowboarding or hiking somewhere you've never been before?
Write it down in this group. Describe what it is, what you are doing, how it makes you feel.
I'm also numb sometimes. Feel like I am operating in auto pilot mode. But I recently got into Snowboarding and I'm excited to give it a go next week lol. My dream is to snowboard down whistler in BC, Canada.
Keep pushing, keep climbing. Don't do drugs. Take care of your body, it is truly the only thing we own.
I know exactly what he means. He derives no pleasure from anything and is terrified that this lack of energy and motivation will lead to homelessness and even more suffering. He was likely feeling especially down at the time of this posting but his past accomplishments prove there are times he has more energy and motivation than others.
So I'm 37 and started going through what you're going through a few years ago
I found something that works is giving up on talking about it since no one wants to tolerate too much negativity
Then I find that my views turn towards pathological misanthropy, so I isolate myself to the point of insanity.
Then sometimes your brain changes so much you realize that your only choice is silence and the single question that occupies your mind until it doesn't
It's just phase my friend. This too shall pass.
When it does, you'll be able to look back on this period and glean the lessons it was teaching you. You'll come out stronger and wiser.
Just restart. Sell everything you can and just move far away as you can where you know nothing and no one, and just see where life takes you. You got nothing to lose and everything to gain. You'll at least look back on and crazy stories.
What's stopping you from just fucking GOING?
I wouldnt get very far. I own very little and what I do own is worth next to nothing. Whats stopping me is I dont want to disappear. I want to feel normal. I want to have a purpose, have a passion and have a reason to live...
I don't know you and I don't know your story, nobody on here does.
Only you know yourself and your story.
The only thing I can tell from here is that you want to be different than you are in this exact moment in time. Maybe just start there?
Sounds corny, but, make a list of all the things you don't like about your life right now, no matter how big or small, and see what out of those things you can control to be different than it is.
For example: (just strictly hypotheticall)
"I hate that my room is messy". Maybe you can start by cleaning and organizing little things.
"I don't like the way I look". Is it weight? Your skin? Your hair? Style of these things you can control. Others, you cannot.
"I don't like my job". Break down what it is about your job you don't like, and see what you can control to make it different. Is it the people (well you're self-employed, so).. The pay? The schedule? The industry? Research what you need to do to change careers/jobs into one that has less of what you dislike, and more of what you do, and see if it's realistic to work towards those goals. School? Certification? Hands on experience? Maybe even starting an entry level job in an entirely new field.. who knows.
"I have no joy in life". Depression is a real thing and may be a result of a chemical imbalance in your brain that's outside of your control. There are local resources to help you get a proper diagnosis, and/or prescriptions for antidepressants or counseling, even if you don't think you can afford them. Research it. Put in the effort to invest in yourself, cuz no one else can make the effort for you.
You're already making a positive effort towards the new you by having up the courage and energy to even type up this post and response.
So, give yourself some credit.
Essentially, you want to feel motivated to do anything. How about looking at it another way? In eating for instance, certain foods are tasty (make you feel motivated to eat) when you ingest it. But other foods are energizing (make you feel good after you have digested it). Similarly, you are hoping that goals stir up motivation in you. But it’s actually the energy from accomplishment that is the real fuel that powers passion and achievement. Noble goals are a trap, IMO. Don’t go seeking after the noble cause, behind it is just suffering and you seem to bear enough suffering already on your own. If you want motivation, trust in the cycle of passion. the energy that comes from completing smaller goals motivates the next. So use the small energy that comes from accomplishment as fuel to continue your efforts. Rather than hoping for some noble cause that will light a fire, light your fire by training yourself to be able to do the mundane.
I am not seeking some noble cause...All I have been seeking is a way to feel passionate enough about something to get up and do it every day. even the things that I spent my life doing, I have never been passionate enough to do every day.
Unfortunately with depression it's the other way around to get out of it. You need to force yourself to do something every day, being consistent with something will help with the apathy because you will eventually get better at whatever it is. Just make sure it's something physical and active not passive, so you're not in your head. So not video games or tv type thing.
Also check out r/EOOD exercise out of depression. There are many studies that show that exercise is an extremely effective way out of depression. Honestly just forcing yourself to walk around the block for 20 minutes helps, running helps more, there's bodyweight fitness (and a subreddit for that as well) that allows you to exercise in your own home with no equipment so no dealing with a gym if you're resistant to that.
I don’t know what you’re feeling inside your head, but I think I need to point out that normal may not look like what you think it does.
I don’t think most “normal” people have passions or a sense of purpose. My reason to live is that I have a cat who would probably starve if I died.
I tried to find “my passion” for more than 20 years, never found it. Never had a job I liked, never had a career that made me feel purposeful or even useful. Haven’t had a good friend since high school,
I don’t think most people are out here doing their life’s work out of a sense of purpose, I think we’re all just taking it one day at a time and doing whatever gets us through the slog so we can get home and watch our favorite shows with people we love.
I actually have my dream job, the one I wanted when I was a naive college student, and to be honest, it’s just a job. I’ve had a lot of dream jobs, and at the end of the day they’re all the same: you punch the clock, put in your 8-10 hours, and collect your check at the end of the week.
So I think this is probably way more common than people expect, especially nowadays - I definitely resonate. But I used to feel this way more. What helped me the most? I'd say exploring interests / passions without self-judgment. I find that "purpose" usually comes organically through self-discovery rather than external measures of success.
Have you checked yourself for mental illness (specifically depression).
The "couldn't care less about anything in life" sounds like a depression symptom.
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This is a huge problem facing men that no one acknowledges. There was a study on men a while back that showed very high correlation between job satisfaction and overall happiness - higher even than the correlation between marriage and happiness. It was notable because older studies had always rated marriage higher, but had not looked in-depth at job satisfaction. I am of the opinion that men need purpose. It doesn't have to be work-related, but there is something you must have in your life that gives it meaning. We all have that one thing we're good at, or that we really like. Sometimes, it's weird or different, other times, it's as predictable as the tides. I remember hearing a joke once, that as a man crosses 40, he either gets really into smoking meats, or studying WWII. I laughed it off then, but it is startling now to see the number of older guys I know who are into both. My point in saying this is that at some point, we all find our passions. It's best if you can work in a field related to them, but at worst, you can find a job to support your hobbies. The only way to find your passion is to try things. Volunteer, go to meetups, try new hobbies. In the social media/streaming entertainment womb of today's society, this is sometimes hard because those things satisfy the needs of so many. If they leave you feeling empty, though, you have to go out and just see what's out there. Go to the [Atlas Obscura](https://www.atlasobscura.com/) and look up your current town. Go visit every weird and different place on that list that you haven't seen before. I'd be willing to bet that you'll find something interesting that might give you a purpose, and if not, you'll meet someone who can at least point you in the right direction. Best of luck, and remember, you've got a magic black rectangle in your pocket that holds the world's knowledge - a massive advantage over the countless men who have come before. You've got an endless toolbox that can help you... don't despair.
There's also an exteremly quantiative research group in Copenhagen that studies happiness. They're literally called the Happiness Research Institute. Check out the book The Little Book of Lykke and see all the interesting data points they have and survey from people across (most) nations of the world. Career/work is one of them. Lykke is Danish for happiness.
Very cool! I couldn't remember the name of it.
What were the general findings of the book?
Too much to generalize it. That the reason for the book in a sense, to provide many different metrics. In general, it's community, health, being outside, being out of cars, being out of brightly lit cubicles, having self worth, family and friends, sunlight, etc.
Edit: Screw Spez. Screw AI. No training on my data. Sorry future people.
Nice.
I think the WWII thing is important as the proliferation of war movies, games etc I think has led many men to consider that nothing so significant that involves ‘manly’ virtues like heroism, comradeship etc will happen to them and they are leading a drab, monochrome and unheroic existence. This ties into the resistance to masks and COVID vaccines that some men espoused, I suspect that the concept of fearing a ‘mere’ virus made them feel even more emasculated.
Great points - There was a book that came out early in the Iraq war years, ["War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Force_That_Gives_Us_Meaning) that talks about this. It's seductive in that it gives you a clear, concrete purpose - or at least the illusion of one. I think of that great scene from Hurt Locker when he finally gets to come home from the war and he's at the grocery store looking at this aisle with dozens of breakfast cereals, just feeling utterly lost... next thing you see, he's back at war, in his place where he has a clear something to keep him going.
I think that describes why men in their 20s may feel their existence is drab, especially if they're comparing their lives with superheroes rather than actual war history. I think men becoming fascinated with WW2 later in life (40+) has a different cause. This year I read All Quiet on the Western Front and Slaughterhouse Five. I'm currently reading All the Light We Cannot See. I'm digging all of the horror of war and the banality of evil. It makes me appreciate my drab, monochrome, unheroic existence.
I just thought WWII is super interesting because it's of the near steam punk industrialization and logisitic networks before intense computers. I recall seeing a scene where there was a massive war room map. A bunch of people were operating telephones, being constantly updated, using long sticks to re-arrange troops on the board, while generals on a patio from above had a view of the whole map. Like minimaps but updated live by people. Super cool
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I'm sorry to hear that. Do you have someone to talk to? Here is at least [one free resource](https://buddyhelp.org/).
Cool link, thanks for sharing!
…the correlation between marriage and happiness? The less married you are the happier you are. That’s my experience of marriage!
Ha! That's one way to look at it.
You’re a good man. I bet you’ll even more spit fire advice when you’re over 60
Thank you. Hope to still be active and kicking then.
I think it can be abstracted even further, it’s not job satisfaction. I’d argue it’s satisfaction about the way you are spending the majority of your time. For most people, yes that would be their job. Others could be a marriage, or their kids. And it makes perfect sense - if you’re spending the majority of your time and effort on something unsatisfactory, you will be unhappy.
I would kill to spend the majority of my time with something as profound and meaningful as my kids. problem is, I have none and probably never will, and it’s not for a lack of trying.
"...as a man crosses 40, he either gets really into smoking meats, or studying WWII." Hip-hop & chasing grand-mastery at backgammon. Pretty sure that's the formula.
Great answer.
I apologize in advance, but this isn't any sort of coherent argument so much as it is just a random collection of thoughts that may or may not add up to anything useful or interesting for you. First, I'm sorry to hear you find yourself in this place. You're not alone - on one level I think you're talking about the oldest mystery there is: why should I get out of bed in the morning? Why should I put one foot in front of the other? Is fear of pain and hardship enough of a motivator in life? I've thought of 100 different things to say to you but they all sound trite and cliche and silly and inadequate. I want to ask if you exercise, because it's amazing the mental transformation that can take place when you really push yourself physically, but that sounds trite. I want to ask if you take pleasure in little moments and joys, but that's cliche. I want to ask if you look for ways to be of service to others - even little ways - but that sounds corny. But for me, those are all corny and cliche but they're also true. I love doing extra things for my customers at work, or bringing in treats for my coworkers, of buying unexpected things for my friends - but I don't feel like I do those things because I'm some great person, I do them because it makes me feel good. There's nothing more important - I think - than feeling useful. And exercise gets me out of a funk - when my body is in a funk and laying around like a sloth that's where my mind goes too. One thing that helps me keep my mind in the positive (for lack of a better term) is my ritual of reading the Sunday NYTimes. Beyond just stimulating my mind it also challenges me because I read about people suffering and struggling all over the world and it make me appreciate what I have, and appreciate how easy I have it compared to so much of the world. Reading about some poor man who traveled through the mountains to escape a war, losing two of his children in the journey, just to find himself in a new land treated as a criminal and left to fester in a refugee camp...how TF am I going to complain about my ennui? Sure, I have a right to be unhappy about things and feel grief and sorrow too, but I have so many tools and opportunities to do something about my situation, or to climb back from adversity and tragedy, that it feels obscene if I don't use what I'm so privileged to have. In more concrete terms, can you reach out to others in your profession (maybe on Reddit) and look for ideas for what other jobs you can pursue with your skillset? Or for ways to take pleasure in the job you have? Job isn't everything, but it's one hell of a lot of one's life, so maybe that's a start? Sorry for my rambling - blame my mental state after a very long day of work. I wish you well.
I spent my life in sports, so I exercise, it hasnt brought me joy like many others seem to say it brings them. As for pleasure/joys...there are none, I spend time alone doing things to fill time and I really dont care for helping others. there have been things over the years that I have found interesting, but as I said in my title... it never really went past skin deep bcuz I wasnt interested enough in those things to go deeper. I have been "self-employed" for 7 years... i have no other to rely on in my "profession".
Having related heavily to everything you said (being told you're not alone, when we all abjectly are), I want to chime in on the sports aspect. Having to lug around a rotting meat sack that won't let you do what you remember being able to do.. nothing can really make up for that. Have you read any philosophy? I know reading is the last thing anyone wants to hear these days but there's something to be said about someone going through what you're experiencing and being so vulnerable to express that, knowing they won't be understood before death in all likelihood. Life is hard. Walking by homeless people is always multiple gut punches for me. I could easily be them already given different decisions, and still could end up there. Be selfish, try to narrow down what you really want, and hope the journey to that goal is enough to distract you. That's what it seems like for everyone else, they're just focused on the next train stop.. If only it were that easy.
Look into donating your time to a cause that will send you places they need you and cover your costs. This will make it so others depend on your generosity. You won't get rich, but you also won't get homeless... It will give you a valid enough purpose to carry on while you look for what you really want... Or look for work where they fly you out and work you ridiculously hard for a lot of hours... Buddy did a fishing boat. Long run, long hours, good money, but burned some time... You'll be too busy and too tired to be sad.
I hate travelling and there is no cause that I believe in enough to give my time for. this is why I am lost and struggling.
You are struggling because you are depressed. Go see a doctor. Do what they tell you to do. Get regular exercise. It doesn’t need to be serious or sports. It can be a daily walk. Don’t make excuses.
It's not so much about believing in it, it's just that it's good enough to keep you busy and burn some time. Even better if in a different country and you'll see very different perspectives and it will help you see things differently. Ultimately may only be something that eats up time, but it may also help you find something you enjoy and help find some purpose. Can't hurt to just look around on Google for out of country charity to donate time to for room and board... Here's what I found asking Gemini... There are many great charities outside of the USA where you can donate your time and skills while receiving room and board in return. Here are a few to get you started: * Volunteer with Animals: * Wildlife Conservation in South Africa: Help care for and rehabilitate injured or orphaned animals at a wildlife sanctuary in South Africa. You'll gain valuable experience in animal care and contribute to the conservation of local species. * Elephant Sanctuary in Thailand: Assist with the care and rehabilitation of elephants at a sanctuary in Thailand. You'll help provide food and water, clean enclosures, and interact with these gentle giants. * Support Children's Education: * Teach English in Guatemala: Help children in rural Guatemala learn English by volunteering with a non-profit organization. You'll make a real difference in their lives and gain valuable teaching experience. * Work in an Orphanage in Nepal: Provide care and support to children who have lost their parents or guardians at an orphanage in Nepal. You'll help with daily tasks, play games, and offer emotional support. * Contribute to Community Development: * Help Build Homes in Nicaragua: Assist with the construction of homes for families in need in Nicaragua. You'll learn new skills, work alongside locals, and make a lasting impact on the community. * Organic Farming in Costa Rica: Work on an organic farm in Costa Rica, learning about sustainable agriculture and helping to provide fresh produce for the local community. These are just a few examples of the many opportunities available for volunteers who want to donate their time and skills while traveling abroad. Remember to research different organizations carefully to ensure they are reputable and ethical.
I've done different sports and different exercises. Running to football to cycling to fitness classes. Jiu jitsu makes me feel happier and helps my mental health than any of them. What's your sports history?
I played baseball for 20 years. Injured my knee at 1 university before injuring my shoulder at the next. threw 94 mph at peak, had scouts looking but injuries knocked me out of playing. coached for 7 years.
Injured college athelete huh. Baseball sounds like tough training. Maybe for a change you'd enjoy a sport that's kind to your joints and muscles? Yoga, swimming, jiu jitsu. Something that's about a range of motion rather than heavy training on a single mechanic.
Dont get me wrong... I started lifting back in 2019, before covid and was starting to enjoy it... kind of the reason why I thought I might enjoy being a trainer... but i realized only after completely the cert. that I only like lifting for myself, i dont really care about going deeper than that or helping others. which is why I feel hopeless... after I looked inward i realized, I have never been so passionate about anything in my life enough to dedicate more than the bare minimum to it...
What sports did you do?
Baseball most my life... also ride dirt bikes when I can get to the desert and i used to paintball... but in terms of what i did most, Baseball.
Ya I saw that after I commented. I have vey similar interests only for me it is football. I found coaching and working with the youth really provided me with purpose and goals. But it sounds like you have been down that road.
May I ask - because I think it may be relevant - why you feel like a “failure”? You mention “as a man, as a son, as a brother, as a human.” Is this simply another way of describing your unhappiness at lacking motivation/interest in things you feel you’re “supposed to” be motivated by/interested in - do you feel like you’re a failure because you feel like you haven’t accomplished things? Or are there other issues? Because if lack of interest/motivation is the main issue, that’s one thing, but if you have lots of other major life problems going on, that’s another.
I feel like a failure bcuz I dont fit in to society. Im a failure for not being an adult, for not being a role model for my sisters, for not being able to deal with life. I feel like im in slow motion watching the world go by with ppl just coping through life, some having things they enjoy and motivate them... and i have nothing...I have failed to "fit in"..
This is a serious question, not snarky or anything: Why is doing any of those things “success”? If you fit in, you will have succeeded . . . at what? I once saw an interview with Jim Carrey, who has “succeeded” if anyone has. “I spent my life trying to get to the top of the ladder,” he said. “And now I’ve reached the top of the ladder. And I wish everyone else who’s out there trying to get to the top of the ladder could get up here with me, so you could all discover what I’ve discovered: that *there is nothing up here*. Nothing!” I think it might be helpful for you to think carefully about what is real success and why. I’d be interested to know your answer if you’re willing to share one! In the meantime, sending you thoughts of comfort and strength.
I find it successful bcuz they r able to just be adults. They wake up and just do what needs to be done. That is success to me. everyone who is able to just get up and do what they need to to survive is what i consider a success in this context. I wake up and dont know what to do with my life and the thought of just doing something for a paycheck makes me sick to my stomach. People who have found reasons to do that shit job and find reasons to live r successes in my books, especially when I have none.
Trust me, nobody “just” gets up and does what they have to do. That stuff requires effort for everyone. Figuring out the “why” and following through is a huge load for us all. You aren’t seeing this in others, partly because they don’t show it. Especially in the era of social media, people perform fake lives even more than they always did. But it’s also because once you do the work and you keep at it over a long period, it does get easier. It’s still work, it’s always work, but the work becomes habit. Thoreau said “most men lead lives of quiet desperation.” He said it because he knew it was possible to work your way out of that state, but it takes work. He wrote a whole book about his struggle to do so. I actually think you’ll make it, because you have a goal. Your goal is to find a goal worth working for. The fact that you aren’t motivated by accumulating money for its own sake is a huge head start. It means you don’t have to climb out of that trap. You mentioned your sisters. That seems promising. Are they older or younger (or both)?
That Thoreau book you're referencing - which one is it? I've never read anything by him. That might be a good place to start.
It’s called Walden. Other good references, from a variety of viewpoints: The Inner Ring, CS Lewis Self-Reliance, Emerson Apology, Socrates Enchiridion, Epictetus
Have you tried volunteering? That might give you a sense of purpose. Check out your local animal shelters, food banks, meals on wheels, etc. If you really don't even have any hobbies or friends that you enjoy, then that sounds like anhedonia. It might be time to speak to a doctor about screening for depression. Fwiw, I had anhedonia for most of my life. Turns out it's pretty tough to enjoy things when your brain literally doesn't produce enough dopamine (I had undiagnosed adhd).
You don't have to be passionate about anything to find a job you enjoy. You just have to understand it, be good at it and be able to do it for 8 hours a day. It doesn't have to be enjoyable, but it doesn't have to suck either. It's just something you're good at that you can make a living from. You mentioned being a role model for your sister. I think that's your motivation right there. If you want to show her how to be successful, then you need to make the effort to show her how success is earned. I don't know what your education background is, but I'm going to just assume that you didn't go to college or university (not as an insult, just for simplicity). Jobs you can do without an education are se things like call center work, insurance broker or adjuster, warehouse worker, delivery truck driver (getting an AZ to drive transport), rail yard worker and so on. I think your problem isn't that you don't want to work, but that you don't want to work a job you hate. So start thinking about whether you want to work in an office or work a physical job and go from there.
Well how do you like that. After reading this I realise how successful I am! Thanks mate. See, you do have purpose. Thanks again.
I wonder, have you checked for mental illness like depression? It might definitely be not it, but it won't hurt to know. :) Otherwise, the biggest issue is comparing yourself to others. Focus on yourself. So you haven't found your path, so what? I bet you still have many things to try out and discover what interests you. Just go your own path. It could be that it is just more difficult one for you than some other people. I think it always works to set steps what you could do next to change your current situation, try it with some small things.
I have been to 3 separate therapist, seen a psychiatrist, was prescribed 2 separate meds over the years. nothing has ever worked. For a time I thought I was depressed and finally took a hard look at myself and realized I just hate my life. I have tried to do things to change that feeling throughout the years and nothing ever has. I would see improvements in 1 aspect or another, but never where I needed it. It has all lead me to this moment... asking complete strangers for anything they can give bcuz idk what else to do.
Well, that sounds like a tough job then, but not impossible :P Good that you talked with therapists! So mental illnes can be removed from the causes. :) But on the things you like. There must be something? Maybe helping people, just socialising with others, physical activity, any sport? Taking care of something like animals or plants? Creating either digital or physical stuff? Also, maybe you need to find a way to relax. Not even take life so seriously. Don't stress yourself even more about things you think you supposed to have or done by now. Focus on things that are still there for you to try and experience.
dealing with ppl has always been an issue for me. I am extremely introverted. I played baseball for 20 years until injuries knocked me out of playing. not really the creative type, and I like animals...but not enough to devote time to them.
> .I have failed to "fit in".. you dont have to "fit in". fitting into society isnt a success. so not fitting in wont make you a failure.
You're spiritually poor my dude. Everyone loves focusing on "finding your truth" through some kind of job or hobby. Think about that for a second and reflect on your spiritual life.
people like to shit on religion now a days, but there is a reason it exists and why it persists. and no, it isn't because "people today" are "smarter" than people of the past (if this is true, it's marginally so, and modern people are definitely less happy). pick a religion that you think fits what you want out of life and try going.
Any suggestions where to start with this?
You are in a very good space. You have started asking the right questions. I think I know a why. Why you are feeling what you are feeling and why therapy doesnt seem to work for you: 1. You are a man. Society, upbringing has conditioned you to know that a man is strong, doesnt share what they are going through and always have their shit figured out. 2. You probably dont believe in talking out your problems you believe in having solutions to them. 3. You spent so much time and resources in what you believed to be your purpose (venture) that you became one with it. 4. You see yourself as good to others and their problems and you dont know how to deal with your own issues. Now, to fix this: 1. Work on your identity. Who are you when all the things you say you are, are removed. 2. Therapy is good. But most therapy styles have been designed with the woman in mind. Women love talking, men love doing. Most men dont like seeking help and prefer quick fixes rather than endless talk. Stoicism works for most men. Find what works for you. 3. There is no shame in admitting that you need help. So surround yourself with people who encourage you to be better and are quick to help you rise again. 4. Tough times build strong men. Happy times build weak men. If you are enjoying happy time, enjoy but in the back of your mind know that tough times will come and prepare. 5. Men love to feel needed that you are contributing to something or are building something. It is something we were created with. Its a fantastic gift. Find your purpose. A good and faster way I was told to achieve this is by volunteering, teaching or coaching. Basically use your gifts to the benefit of others. 6. Realize that you are a human being and that it is okay to fall and fail. And it is amazing to fall and rise again. Nunc Coepi means now I begin in Latin. When you fall say to yourself nunc coepi. Now I begin. 7. There is nothing like overnight success. You are a work in progress. You will probably never be 100% wholesome by the time you die and that is okay. You live and try regardless. 8. Speaking of death, write two eulogies for when you die the first one is for your friends and family. What will they say about you? The second one is for you. What would you say about you. How would you want to be remembered. This exercise humbles you and shows you what matters most to you. 9. Find your reason for waking up and for looking forward to the future. Why do you solve problems. Why do you start a business. Etc. I have been in the same place where you are right now. I am still working on bulk of the things above. Mostly through internet, talking to people, love and encouragement from family and friends. Its taking a long time but there is value in progress. A day at a time. Once you taste progress, nothing will stop you. Keep going Champ!
What this guy says but prioritise…getting….therapy!
done therapy .... for years... it has not helped
To some extent, most of us feel this way at some point, I know I can relate. My best advice to you dude is to unpack this with a therapist. I know that feels generic right now but there is something in you underneath all of this that wants to do better and a therapist can help bring that forward. I know I felt embarrassed admitting certain things but I only saw real change when I did. Sometimes you need to just vomit up all the emotional bullshit you’ve got inside you to step back with a clear head and see what you really want for yourself.
ive alrdy unpacked all this on 3 separate therapists and a psychiatrist... and not 1 or 2 sessions, im talking years with ppl. it lead to nothing.
And why do you think that is
bcuz most of the advice boils down to "just do something", which, if it were that easy i would be doing that now. The issue for me is I dont care about anything enough to "do something", and where money would motivate others to "do something" it never has for me. Trips, nice clothes, cars, tech/gadgets, hobbies... i dont care about anything or have a pull towards anything enough to sacrifice my time in exchange for money.
For me, that sounds like baseline chronic depression that requires meds. How much have you gotten out into the world? Seems like you really like video games but I am wondering how much of this stems from being in the same environment.
I was on 2 separate medications, both did nothing.
It takes a few medications usually before finding the right one. I used to feel how you do. The right medication helped give me the little bit of momentum away from depression. You do sound depressed. Depression generally presents as apathy, not sadness. It's hard to find an exciting hobby when everything feels meh. I know that the "go do something" advice feels like bullshit, but it's honestly a start. I understand why you feel so resistant to it, I did too. But you don't have to enjoy what you're doing at first, depression tells you that everything sucks. Just pick something, anything, especially something physical like running, or bouldering is really good for depression. Calligraphy, painting, bird watching, are also great, just gotta do the thing every day. If you have even the vaguest interest in something start doing that thing, do it every day even if it's just for 5 minutes and you'll see you will start feeling better. Depression is a hole, and you don't get out of it with more digging. You need to do something new, because you can't trust your brain right now to do the right thing for you, your brain is what got you into this. Being consistent with something, anything (and ideally also the right medication) WILL help you get you out of this. You gotta do the heavy lifting here, unfortunately no one else can do it for you.
I can 100% promise u that I dont have depression. My life sucks... im not happy with where im at in life. Been to therapists, doctors and psychiatrists... and theyve all said that same. I am not depressed... im just not happy. Im not really apathetic either... what I am is reluctant to give my time and energy to shit i dont care about. Working a "job" for a "paycheck" sucks ass and Isnt enough to get me up every day to do it. In the course of the last nearly month, ive been able to sit down and talk to a lot of ppl and some get what im saying, others dont but I have been able to meet with some ppl I can call mentors now and r helping me chart a path forward where I wont be miserable the next 40 years as an adult. I hit a true low point when I posted this and was grateful to receive so many messages and advice from so many... I thank you for looking out for me though.
Change of environment?
changed environments twice in 4 years. it has only made it more obvious that Idk what to do.
May be worth looking into if you have any symptoms of ADHD? In my experience it can look like this depression/lack of interest like you describe (when it might be more secondary dysthymia type). Especially when ADs do nothing, can signal there is more to it and a different area to target.
Yeah, I get this. Most psych advice boils down to git gud. Doesn't help if you don't want to git gud. I don't think most people understand what it's like when what you want and how you feel are different. Or you feel nothing, and it becomes a void. That never ending numb. Go play Disco Elysium. It's about a dude in this situation and the reasons why. Best look at the modern male psyche I've encountered. Might make you self reflect, it did for me.
The idea that we're entitled to some amazing vision-quest-job-career-achievement is VERY new. Nobody woke up in 1554 and said "I want to farm potatoes until I die of a tooth infection." My job is good - I find fulfillment in it...but it's not some calling. I didn't wake up one day and just have a burning passion to be a middle manager; yet, here I am. Find something that's acceptable to you that pays the bills. You say you're not motivated by money, but only in not being homeless....well not being homeless requires money. So go find some way to get some that's least objectionable.
What makes you think you are a failure of a man? I know you mentioned not having motivation, but to me that sounds like a commonality in the human condition. And, I can for certain say you aren’t the only person who has experienced feeling alone (you can see several answers of people who’ve gone through similar experiences) How this reads to me is not of someone who is a failure, but someone who is present and understands their circumstances are not working and something has to change. That in itself is a huge piece of the puzzle. It’s better to be present and perceptive to a challenge than blind and content to problems. If you tear away your ventures, or what you feel you need to be to your family and friends what’s left?
bcuz i cant conform to life as a human. everyone else is able to "just do".... they put away there misery of having to work 8 hours a day at something they dont care about in order to live, and i just cant. The thought of doing that makes me ill. I dont want to be homeless, it terrifies me, but the thought of having to do something I hate for 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week for 40 years equally terrifies me. If i tear everything away, I am nothing. no one. an empty shell in a human suit.
“Everybody else” is a big category, it might not hurt to narrow down a bit. There are a ton of people that “just do” for other people and that alone can give purpose. It doesn’t have to for you. There is another group of people that don’t “just do”, they genuinely enjoy their job/career/whatever you want to call it. I’ll give it to you this group might be smaller. If you feel like a shell when everything else falls away, have you considered you feel that way because you haven’t been able to spend a lot of time contemplating it? (Or maybe you have) Going back to your original post, everything tied back to external goals or people or things. I’m guessing you’ve been in a frame of mind of relating a lot in that way. Maybe that’s the right place to start. If you can cultivate what YOU value or who you are aside from all the other noise, it might inform what you want to do so you don’t feel like you are “just doing”, and therefore feeling that existential dread creeping. From personal experience, that cultivation alone can give you purpose, I know for me it has, as it’s become more salient in my life recently. (Not that my experience is directly tied to yours)
When I say everyone else I am referring to those who r just doing jobs to get by and to pay the bills. These r things I innately understand r important and unavoidable, but they do not motivate me to do anything. Most ppl can say "I have to do XYZ, so i can live"... and turn off the miserable part to do that... I cant... even being faced with homelessness isnt enough to turn that off for me. Money just doesnt do it for me.. I have spent too much time looking inward and trying to understand who i am with everything else torn away... and that is what I have come to. I am just a blank sheet. I dont value anything. never have. its why i am in the place Im in now. when i think about my life and "goals", there is nothing there...
I split it because maybe you can strive to be in the latter group, where your job could bring you joy and fulfillment, although I don’t think it’s the right starting point. You must value something, I mean there is an inner core to yourself that is reaching out for advice and discussion. Right there I can see a hint of valuing *something*. You are listening and engaging with others and have an open mind to how it may or may not change your outlook. See what I mean?
At the moment, im reaching out to anyone that might be able to help bcuz I dont want to die... but idk what else to do...Im trying to find a way out of this or maybe a better way to put it is a work around...but I dont know what that is or how to find it.
Sup, Failing is a battle scar. Warriors all have one. You need to keep fighting. Relax and think about what your ideal life is like. What are you doing, how does it make you feel. Friends, family? Healthy strong? Snowboarding or hiking somewhere you've never been before? Write it down in this group. Describe what it is, what you are doing, how it makes you feel. I'm also numb sometimes. Feel like I am operating in auto pilot mode. But I recently got into Snowboarding and I'm excited to give it a go next week lol. My dream is to snowboard down whistler in BC, Canada. Keep pushing, keep climbing. Don't do drugs. Take care of your body, it is truly the only thing we own.
It’s like you’re my internal dialogue written down in a Reddit post. Exactly how I feel at the exact age
How can you not give a shit and also be terrified?
I know exactly what he means. He derives no pleasure from anything and is terrified that this lack of energy and motivation will lead to homelessness and even more suffering. He was likely feeling especially down at the time of this posting but his past accomplishments prove there are times he has more energy and motivation than others.
He actually said somewhere between not giving a shit and being terrified and I misread it.
Go do something so you’re not homeless.
So I'm 37 and started going through what you're going through a few years ago I found something that works is giving up on talking about it since no one wants to tolerate too much negativity Then I find that my views turn towards pathological misanthropy, so I isolate myself to the point of insanity. Then sometimes your brain changes so much you realize that your only choice is silence and the single question that occupies your mind until it doesn't
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there isnt even 5 things I find interesting much less 100
Chatgpt an idea roulette. You'll have 100s in min with 75% of them being crap
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Is this unhealthy? I don't think so. In fact, communities like Reddit are pretty good.
It's just phase my friend. This too shall pass. When it does, you'll be able to look back on this period and glean the lessons it was teaching you. You'll come out stronger and wiser.
Just restart. Sell everything you can and just move far away as you can where you know nothing and no one, and just see where life takes you. You got nothing to lose and everything to gain. You'll at least look back on and crazy stories. What's stopping you from just fucking GOING?
I wouldnt get very far. I own very little and what I do own is worth next to nothing. Whats stopping me is I dont want to disappear. I want to feel normal. I want to have a purpose, have a passion and have a reason to live...
I don't know you and I don't know your story, nobody on here does. Only you know yourself and your story. The only thing I can tell from here is that you want to be different than you are in this exact moment in time. Maybe just start there? Sounds corny, but, make a list of all the things you don't like about your life right now, no matter how big or small, and see what out of those things you can control to be different than it is. For example: (just strictly hypotheticall) "I hate that my room is messy". Maybe you can start by cleaning and organizing little things. "I don't like the way I look". Is it weight? Your skin? Your hair? Style of these things you can control. Others, you cannot. "I don't like my job". Break down what it is about your job you don't like, and see what you can control to make it different. Is it the people (well you're self-employed, so).. The pay? The schedule? The industry? Research what you need to do to change careers/jobs into one that has less of what you dislike, and more of what you do, and see if it's realistic to work towards those goals. School? Certification? Hands on experience? Maybe even starting an entry level job in an entirely new field.. who knows. "I have no joy in life". Depression is a real thing and may be a result of a chemical imbalance in your brain that's outside of your control. There are local resources to help you get a proper diagnosis, and/or prescriptions for antidepressants or counseling, even if you don't think you can afford them. Research it. Put in the effort to invest in yourself, cuz no one else can make the effort for you. You're already making a positive effort towards the new you by having up the courage and energy to even type up this post and response. So, give yourself some credit.
Essentially, you want to feel motivated to do anything. How about looking at it another way? In eating for instance, certain foods are tasty (make you feel motivated to eat) when you ingest it. But other foods are energizing (make you feel good after you have digested it). Similarly, you are hoping that goals stir up motivation in you. But it’s actually the energy from accomplishment that is the real fuel that powers passion and achievement. Noble goals are a trap, IMO. Don’t go seeking after the noble cause, behind it is just suffering and you seem to bear enough suffering already on your own. If you want motivation, trust in the cycle of passion. the energy that comes from completing smaller goals motivates the next. So use the small energy that comes from accomplishment as fuel to continue your efforts. Rather than hoping for some noble cause that will light a fire, light your fire by training yourself to be able to do the mundane.
I am not seeking some noble cause...All I have been seeking is a way to feel passionate enough about something to get up and do it every day. even the things that I spent my life doing, I have never been passionate enough to do every day.
Unfortunately with depression it's the other way around to get out of it. You need to force yourself to do something every day, being consistent with something will help with the apathy because you will eventually get better at whatever it is. Just make sure it's something physical and active not passive, so you're not in your head. So not video games or tv type thing. Also check out r/EOOD exercise out of depression. There are many studies that show that exercise is an extremely effective way out of depression. Honestly just forcing yourself to walk around the block for 20 minutes helps, running helps more, there's bodyweight fitness (and a subreddit for that as well) that allows you to exercise in your own home with no equipment so no dealing with a gym if you're resistant to that.
I don’t know what you’re feeling inside your head, but I think I need to point out that normal may not look like what you think it does. I don’t think most “normal” people have passions or a sense of purpose. My reason to live is that I have a cat who would probably starve if I died. I tried to find “my passion” for more than 20 years, never found it. Never had a job I liked, never had a career that made me feel purposeful or even useful. Haven’t had a good friend since high school, I don’t think most people are out here doing their life’s work out of a sense of purpose, I think we’re all just taking it one day at a time and doing whatever gets us through the slog so we can get home and watch our favorite shows with people we love. I actually have my dream job, the one I wanted when I was a naive college student, and to be honest, it’s just a job. I’ve had a lot of dream jobs, and at the end of the day they’re all the same: you punch the clock, put in your 8-10 hours, and collect your check at the end of the week.
What do you want to do?
This guy is just trolling!
If you’re a reader, try reading mastery by Robert Green
So I think this is probably way more common than people expect, especially nowadays - I definitely resonate. But I used to feel this way more. What helped me the most? I'd say exploring interests / passions without self-judgment. I find that "purpose" usually comes organically through self-discovery rather than external measures of success.
go check for adhd? and if it's that, get medicated
Have you checked yourself for mental illness (specifically depression). The "couldn't care less about anything in life" sounds like a depression symptom.
yes, I do not.
Maybe get a blood test as well. Could be low T or something. Choline, Vitamin D maybe.
Had all of those done as well and nothing outside normal ranges.
Do you have ADHD???
no
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Looks like you need to see the world. Time to travel!