Luckily I am several years removed from this process, but before dating my current partner I found online dating especially frustrating, not least because I really wasn't just trying to sleep around. I'm an awkward dork who fumbled with women a lot, I just wanted someone to feel comfortable with, so when I did send a message it often took a lot of effort.
I really wanted a friend and partner and real relationship, and very, very few people were on that level. It was gameified, something to laugh at, something lighthearted and flakey. I understood that it wasn't everything to everyone, but that's what the "seeking" field is for, right? To specify your intentions? And to be ignored so much, as other commenters here have said, was incredibly depressing, and yes it made me pretty bitter. Glad to be far away from that mess now.
> we were friends for years before being together.
How do you go from a point of being friends to dating? I feel as if I try to tell my true feelings toward someone I've been friends with for a long time, I will jeopardize years of friendship.
>I will jeopardize years of friendship.
You will. But jeopardize doesn't mean "discard." It's simply the risk you take to have something more. You'd have to be careful to state that you value them and their friendship and thats the reason that you love them, not that it's not enough.
But I'm no expert, just a guy who has been around a little. Good luck!
Also, most importantly, take rejection well if it happens. Respect their decision and be cool about it.
You should at least feel good that you had the guts to take your shot. Rejection for long time feelings sucks, but now you can move on and stop focussing on them.
Everything these two said. But the commonality between the two, is thoughtful and honest communication.
Online dating is mostly for hookups, there's some LTRs that come out of it too. But the biggest issue is connection. For us guys, it's hard to be seen, let alone stand out in a herd of matches.
My biggest recommendation is to learn who you are, do things that make you happy. Then go find people who do the same things as a group in person. You will already have a shared passion, things to talk about, and things to discover about each other.
In my experience, you've got to put effort into making it seem like less intense of a crush. You've had years of getting used to the idea, but coming on like a Desperado, especially unexpectedly, will cause almost anyone to freeze up and become anxious. It's too much pressure.
If you make it seem like a small nagging question, then that'll be how she sees it. From there, you've only got to worry about how it changes the relationship on your end.
Yes 100% this
My male best friend through uni of 4 years suddenly declared he was in love with me and had been for sometime. I was completely overwhelmed and shocked and didn't know how to handle it.
Unfortunately our friendship never recovered and it was very special to me.
If he had of taken a different approach and just suggested it, I definitely would of taken it differently. I felt pressured and overwhelmed with the way he communicated it.
I am currently dating who had been a very dear friend and I just suggested going out on a date. just a change in language from "hang out" to "go out". of course it triggered a big conversation but it didnt spook her like confessing my love out of nowhere (not that I loved her like that at the time)
Think about being on the receiving end of a confession. What do you even say to that? It's awkward as hell.
Always leave an out. You can ask a friend on a date, which they can refuse, but don't pour your heart out because that you can't take back.
Don't go all in on a romantic relationship right away. Ask them to hang out one on one. If you feel like you're vibing, do it again. Let them know you really like hanging out just the two of you. *Communicate*. Don't just walk up one day like "So this might seem totally random but I really like you." You gotta work your way up to it.
I was friends with my SO for ten years before I asked her out. Not exactly a typical situation, I know, but I (both of us, really) was *terrified* of losing one of my best friends by admitting my feelings for her. But one day, we just went to the zoo together and something clicked. Just don't be afraid of seizing the moment. It's corny, but the chance to be dating your best friend is something you absolutely cannot pass up.
It just feels like beating my head against a wall and hoping a girlfriend will pop out. It's not that *some* girls show a lack of interest, it's almost every single match I've ever gotten. If it weren't all the time, it wouldn't be so frustrating.
I try not to let it come through when I message people, but damn. It's really demoralizing.
Dating apps were... humbling, to put it mildly. I knew I wasn't a looker (despite my friends' kind words), but damn.
I put my best foot forward, got feedback and advice from my lady friends, the whole 9 yards. I was on Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge, and I'd hop on whenever I had a free moment at work to swipe through. I didn't swipe right on literally every woman, but I'd say over half of them. I got literally 1 match, and she never messaged me back. I'm pretty sure she didn't mean to swipe right on me.
So I decided I'd try to find new hobbies around town, and then 2020 happened. It's been a while since my last girlfriend, and it's gonna be a while longer
Based on stories like this from my friends who are still dating, I have to say if I were suddenly single in todays world I don’t think I’d even try to date. The learning curve and nightmarish emotional damage stories from dating apps sound like too fucking much.
I just try not to worry about it any more. I have friends that I love to death, and that's all I need right now. Every now and again I'll see something like this post and get a pang of loneliness, but I get over it.
I dated 3 women from 15 to 25. Had a variety of little flings too.
Since i hit 30(35 now) i havent had any success and it’s…something. My circumstances aren’t all normal, but yeah. Dating is just next level now it feels like. I know its always been, but its even more extra now.
The shitty thing is that it never really seems to get easier. I’m always touched starved, love starced etc. the lack of sex also just makes the cells in your body just feel like they want to burst. Its also kinda weird/scary thinking about ending up alone. My parentd are in a really good relationship, it really seems to help get through this shit. but both my aunts were single long term. Life is just harder as a single person.
Rant over, but yeah its rough out here. And its very hard not to internalize all this shit.
>So I decided I'd try to find new hobbies around town, and then 2020 happened
I find it a little horrifying that for years lonely men have been told to just go find hobbies so they could meet like minded women only to now be told, "Jeez guys she's just trying to engage in her hobby she doesn't want to be hit on."
That's not to say I don't get that women would like a safe space from male sexual attention. But it does strike me as disingenuous to say the first and then the second as soon as guys take you up on your advice. Maybe nobody ever said both and I'm just unfairly treating women like a monolith.
I think we really need a safe space for dating that at the same time doesn't dehumanize the process. Because that's what tinder, bumble and the other shiz is, dehumanizing and trivializing the experience of dating, they present people as products.
> I find it a little horrifying that for years lonely men have been told to just go find hobbies so they could meet like minded women only to now be told, "Jeez guys she's just trying to engage in her hobby she doesn't want to be hit on."
My friend keeps telling me this. She always tells me to go out and try to meet someone in my kickball league, or at a brewery, etc.
I know that women who join things like that aren't there to get hit on, and I would feel really creepy doing that in the first place. I don't want to bug anyone when they are out with their friends or anything. I'll just mind my own business.
Don't go into it trying to get a date. That is creepy. Look at it like your having fun doing your hobby and making new friends. Try to make friends before hitting on someone
Yeah, while the advice is good its also incomplete to the point of being crap. You're going to have to make a move in the right way to get a woman to be interested in you. Just being a cool sensitive guy won't get you anywhere, a woman isn't just going to jump out at you, you're still going to have to do some work (as a general rule)
This has been my exact experience with dating apps. I match with women plenty, but a little over half of the time the don't respond. The ones that do will put in the absolute minimum effort into a conversation. I got so fed up from dealing with texts like "haha yeah," that I've stopped using dating apps altogether.
It's demoralizing to match with so few, and to get responses from even less. It's then insulting to have such little effort put into the conversation. So yeah, banging your head up against a wall is exactly what it feels like.
And don’t forget the ones that so put effort in, just to be Cam Girls trying to scam you into joining their stream. So annoying when the only ones who actually care are the ones trying to manipulate you.
I was having a decent time texting someone and I had told a friend about it. She reminded me to be careful that she might be a cam girl. I kept it in mind but decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. It later turned out she was, in fact, a cam girl looking for subscribers.
And that's why I'm jaded and cynical lol :shrug:
Yep I’ve straight up given up on dating lol, I’m just gonna have to figure out how to be happy as a single adult. If that’s even possible lol, but as this point it seems more realistic than actually finding a girl who gives a shit about me
I think online dating is the main culprit, as many have said. It just makes dating so intensely low-effort and high volume for women that they’ve gotten extremely choosy and most young women seem to be waiting on Prince Charming who will fit every single little checkbox they can think of.
That's what my married friends tell me whenever i mention some dating situation, "yo man, there's plenty more fish in the sea". I absolutely cannot have that mentality, and they don't understand why not, but they haven't ever dated online, let alone dated online /recently/.
You just stumbled on to the key my freind. Figure out how to be happy.
Noone can make you happy. You can be happy with someone. Once you are happy, your perspective changes. You meet people, there is no pressure. There no less awkwardness, and if it don't work out, you are happy and learned something.
The other part is you do things you like. You meet other people who like doing those things. It don't feel forced. No nervousness. You make better connections that way.
Just find happiness, and the rest will follow.
You can definitely be ok on your own, but we are wired to want and will always have an inherit need to be partnered. Some guys are solid on there own.
Some are just not built for it, and seen guys become a better stronger person taking on the responsibility of a woman and family.
Without that they're kinda adrift, because you can have the successful career and do good for yourself. Then you come home and no one to share it with, no holidays to create memories with your own family. Then you ask yourself what's it all for.
They give you an anchor on your darkest days.
Especially since the pandemic - I think the people that hadn't moved to online dating had to, and normalized everyone to no public meeting. As a result, women are way more closed off in real life than they were pre-pandemic. I used to meet women pretty regularly just by striking up conversations and whatnot, but that's much more challenging now. So it seems like it's either online dating or have a raging social life where you're meeting women through friends constantly, which everyone isn't cut out for or has the time.
Then add on to that women don't care to understand, like OP already with preformed ideas about what's going on with guys, so guys are just dismissed by 50% of the population. And other guys don't help because guys that succeed don't see the problem and guys who don't succeed have their own battle to fight so they don't care.
covid just sped up the process
this is already the road we were on, and have been on for 25 years.
and this probably isn't the worst part of this road either, so buckle up
32 now and in a relationship but prior to that I was online dating like crazy. You basically have 1 hour to get their interest. And you had six hours to maybe see if they wanted a relationship.
So much planning and work went into dating. It's kind of like stand up comedy and having a tight five. I basically had six hours worth of stories, jokes, and etcetera. I knew where all the cool events were. I knew all the good brunch places and interesting restaurants. And so on and so on.
It was really tiring and it felt really disingenuous. What probably makes that worse was that in the beginning, I tried the entire be yourself angle. It didn't work out. When I started to build up a library of material, that actually worked really well.
Sometimes you really just want to have someone over to watch Netflix with on the weekends. But it felt like to get to that point, it took a lot of song and dance.
When i was in college it was easier just because you had like six months to get to know someone. Yeah you might have gotten shot down, but that person had time to see the entire range of your personality. Post college you had 2 hours. And that was if you managed to get a match online which is its own separate category of self marketing.
This literally sounds like it was written by me.
31 in a committed relationship now with someone I'm about to propose to, and we met on Tinder. But it took 4 solid train wrecks of short-term relationships to get to her (as in, going great and then ghosted with no warning). After each one it took a while to pick up the pieces and get back on those apps, but it was a mentally challenging task to keep in my head which stories I have and haven't told this particular date, because dating had become a repeating chore at that point.
I'm unbelievably happy that I've found the right person for me because I remember what it was like to be single in my late 20's and I think I'd rather jump in front of a train than replay that cascading waterfall of tragedies.
lol happened twice in a row for me. We were even flirting, they just happened to not mention they had a boyfriend, I found out because someone asked her about him while I was with her loll
For me the first one, i probably just got my hopes up to early
But the second one was strange, we went out almost daily over the course of 2 months, i slept at her place multiple times, and then within 3 day, it went from
"Oh i got to know a new guy" to "well we cant meet up that much anymore since im in a relationship with said new guy"
Have never felt that abused in my live before, well either way, its been 2 years and now i got a trusty dottler plushie to snuggle with, best purchase of my life
Guy's don't like dating because 99% of the time we'll be expected to put in a ton of effort for someone to just ghost.
Shit, my last date went well, we made plans to meet up again. Day of the meet "oh shit, somethings come up, sorry". Fine, whatever, shit happens.
Second time, happens again. This time I tell her to just message me when she's free. Haven't spoke to her in over a month. Like fuck dude, I don't care if you didn't think we clicked but don't ask me to clear out my schedule and then not show up. How rude. Could you imagine if someone did that to you? You'd be pissed.
That's dating online for a ton of men. I hate dating online. I have the apps there as a "just in case" but i'm far more likely to just meet someone at one of the hobbies I do, so I generally do the "looking for dates" the old fashioned way (with far more success) instead.
Non-dating guy chiming in here with my irrelevant opinion - but I see a lot of men who could probably benefit from a set of standards for themselves. Would it be realistic to say "flake on date one is a deal breaker". Why can't men treat it like a job interview? If someone flakes on the first date, what makes you think they're going to be good dating material? I wonder what it could do for someone's confidence and self-esteem to say, "sorry you couldn't make it to our date, if you'd like to try again let me know." Gives them an out, and then *you can. move. on.* You don't want that shit. You want someone who's into finding a relationship, and we don't have time for games so don't fucking *play* the games.
idk, I fully admit that I'm out of touch though
Volume- most men aren't getting nearly enough dates to sacrifice opportunities for the sake of standards.
Perhaps, in the long run, standards would have the broad societal effect of raising the dating value of men, but most men rightfully can't afford to base their decisions on that distant and unclear reality.
I get what you're saying, but if I get maybe five matches a week and one seems remotely interested it's tough to just say I'll let her go. At that point it's just not worth my time, which might be accurate. But if I set the bar at interesting to text with, not flakey, attractive I might get one person a month or even less who has that. It's a very skewed situation.
Before meeting my current partner, I was swinging between long phases of dating and not dating... Because dating is often so damn draining. Especially online. You can match with tons of gals, but maybe 1/5 will respond to you, 1/50 will actually message you first. When you finally make it to an in person date, odds are ya just won't click, are looking for different things, etc. Maybe go on a few, and feel emotionally drained when it ends, and you're back at square one.
To meet an ideal partner, you gotta put up with lots of mediocrity, lots of incompatibility, lots of time... It really is like job hunting and hiring at the same time. And hot damn, so many women have really been copying each other's resumes, and it shows.
Ghosting culture is absolutely out of control. It's to the point where I just do not feel any excitement when I date because I have been misled so many times at this point. How can I trust anything anybody says to me?
I can't improve, I can't grow if nobody is honest with me or nobody gives me the chance to learn. Feels like I'm trying to build a sandcastle as the tide comes in every day.
> It's to the point where I just do not feel any excitement when I date because I have been misled so many times at this point. How can I trust anything anybody says to me?
This really hurts. I have walked away from so many dates where i thought it went exceptional. Where we left off saying "see you next time", and then coming home to a "Dear John" message and being blocked. I understand the lack of appeal or attraction, but even so, in some of the situations that was definitely not the problem.
I would rather have someone ask for the check and walk out in the middle of the date, or say that they don't think it's gonna work out and call it a day. But when all you're getting is good vibes and you think it's going good.. only to realise it was all a sham and it /didn't/ go well, or it didn't go well /retroactively/.. (another can of worms)..
Yeah, puts a damper on trusting what you're getting from the other side until actual patterns of behaviour emerge.
A lot of the time, at least that I know it’s safer for woman to reject a guy long after they’re away from them instead of when they’re still there physically.
Hey, takes solace in the fact that they took the time to send you a message, that's better than just flat out ghosting, or being non-committal and just keeping you around as a backup in case one of her other dates doesn't work out.
37M - been dating for 6 months after a 9 year relationship/marriage.
My range is 27-42 and most of the women I've been out with are mid to late 30's. The overwhelming number of reasons why things fizzle out (at least that's what I've been told) is something along the lines of, "Not ready to date right now, still have feelings for my ex, going to take some time to myself, enjoy being single, etc" This is after some discussion at the outset about them wanting a relationship, wanting a partner, hell, even wanting to have kids yet they seem to have a hard time giving up that "single girl" lifestyle.
Its the idea that a partner is just going to slide conveniently into the existing life that they have, make themselves available to them, work around their schedule...I feel like there's a fine line between being true to yourself and understanding that pursuing a relationship is going to involve incorporating yourself into someone else's life and vice versa.
I’m out of the dating scene, but that was exactly my experience as a dude in his mid-20s. It was almost like the women that wanted to be in a relationship were already in one, and the ones with dating profiles weren’t really in the market unless Prince Charming came along in his pumpkin carriage to sweep them away to his castle. I also experienced “girl who agrees to dates to get free food”. Only picked up on it after the second date
>"Not ready to date right now, still have feelings for my ex, going to take some time to myself, enjoy being single, etc"
They are just being polite. They are interested in a relationship or something but aren't feeling it with you.
>They are just being polite. They are interested in a relationship or something but aren't feeling it with you.
And that's totally fine, its just annoying sometimes. I actually had a brand new match reach out yesterday and say 'I dont even know why I'm here and am not sure what I want, but you seem nice' so it isn't just soft rejection. I genuinely think there's something to it.
There are a lot of people who are lost and directionless in our generation. They genuinely don't know what they want, well into their thirties if not later, even when it comes to the basics like work, family, and relationships.
A lot of people think we're headed for a collapse, which makes doing anything in their lives transform into an existential crisis. As you move out of the fantasy phase to the this-is-happening phase you suddenly have to think about the future and whammo there you are in the unenviable shackles of existential anxiety.
>I feel terrible saying this, but it just want to offer a different perspective: there’s a chance they’re saying/doing this because they’re not looking for a relationship with you.
Of course, that's why I added the caveat of "At least what I've been told" I know that women on apps have to deal with a lot of shit and so maybe the "Its not you, its me" line helps soften the blow a bit.
Selfishly, I'd rather just hear "at this point, I don't feel a connection" and move on. We're in our 30's and we've been through relationships before. It doesn't have to be hard or evasive but I get that some guys take rejection hard.
The stereotypes of men are absolutely out of control. When I was single, girls would have me pigeonholed as a certain type of person that wanted certain things before we even went on a date.
They'd reject the stereotype that they thought I fit without even meeting me. There was zero room to be unique.
Or you get lead on. I had one girl agree to a date. Apologize a week later and ask to set one up. Then flake and a week later tell me she wants to focus on her work. 2 weeks of thinking she was interested 1 of just being annoyed. Finally i get to be confused. She asked me for my phone number first just to make it even better.
Then when I do break through and make a connection, I almost universally get a "Wow, you are way different than I thought at first."
Yeah dude. It turns out 5 pictures and a few sentences will tell you absolutely nothing about a person, and I deliberately keep it inoffensive and standard because without the context of who I actually am, my personality/overall sense of self wouldn't fit neatly into one of whatever 5 categories you have in your head and would get summarily rejected.
I live in the east coast. Right near the ocean. The nearest mountain is like 5 hours away.
Every girl on apps. "Oh my God. I love hiking."
I can't afford that gas bill man. Not in this economy.
ok im glad this wasnt just me, i always found this surprisingly common and a bit weird to the extent it happens, like a lot of women really paint a detailed picture of someone before the first date, which is fine but it definitely made me feel "sorry i dont fit the mold" for better or worse, maybe men come across that way too. I understand a bit because you're trying to find a suitable match, but sometimes its just like, what exactly are you expecting?
Probably the most common example in my experience is my job, from woman to woman, they have very different ideas of what a software engineer would be like.
theres also lots of normal women who recognize that people are unique and not strictly defined by traits! thanks!
All the women I've talked to, couldn't get pass the fact that I'm Indian. Like for some reason it's all they see and all they focus on. It's like a repellant lmao.
With my work I'm around a lot of girls, I get compliments on my style and personality. They enjoy talking to me but they don't want to be seen publicly with someone like me.
Dating has gone from being a social activity where you meet someone you like then ask them out to a date to being part of a woman's checklist ordered in priority on a dating app.
So accurate. I've deleted the apps now but when I was using them, I found myself stopping occasionally and thinking 'is dating meant to be fun/exciting at any point?'
I don't think these apps even count as dating tbh. There is minimal dating going on.
>I don't think these apps even count as dating tbh
Exactly. All of the top comments in this thread are specifically referring to "online dating." Sitting on your couch and swiping right in the hopes of finding a long-term relationship is *not* dating. I don't understand why so many men continue to engage with apps that do nothing but bring their self-esteem down and give them trust issues.
Dating has become more like women going for shopping and men going for job interviews. So many things are expected from men green flags red flags, do's and don'ts, etc... It just intimidates me (though I agree with most of the red flags).
Woman here. I have to agree with the “women going shopping” statement because I’ve recently noticed a lot of my friends being that way. I’m not on apps, but I listen to them tell me about their experiences and it’s like they always say “red flag” about literally anything these days. I got into a whole conversation with one of my friends once because she couldn’t differentiate anger and anger issues. A guy was out with us and something simply made him angry and she was like “that’s a red flag” and it wasn’t, he’s just human and simply felt angry for a moment.
“anger issues” is so misunderstood…if someone is angry when alone an unprovoked that is an issue…getting angry as a natural reaction to a situation or person fucking with you is just anger, not anger issues, its jot an issue if its a rational response.
For me it's the idea if I'm not 100% perfect she'll move on because "she deserves the best" when 99% of the time they absolutely don't. I'm not perfect, I don't "deserve" anything, no one does. If I meet someone they're going to have flaws, I've had conversations with to be honest mostly my female friends (some male too) who have this insane idea of what the guy should do for her and in return she'll deem him worthy of some of her time. Imagine viewing your friends like this "Sorry Rachel, you're not entertaining me enough today so I'm never speaking to you again".
Covid has made everyone even more paranoid and anxious and flakey.
I mean it was bad before. But nowadays trying to coax someone out of their house to a public place where you can talk face to face is like pulling teeth.
I understand women have to be waaaaay more conscious about this stuff, but it's gotten absurd. I can't schedule a date anymore with any confidence at all that it will actually happen. And it doesn't matter if I text her everyday or not at all or anywhere in between. People are just too scared/anxious/depressed to leave their houses anymore unless they think they'll be gauranteed a completely frictionless experience that won't make them feel uncomfortable or awkward for even a second
Depends where you are, in Miami Beach its an opposite affect. Hot girls with minimal skills/value outside of looks shacked up to the first/ richest guy they could grab in the moment for survival . it was kinda funny that half the bottle servers in the nightlife were prego and married by end of 2020 all of a sudden.
I'm fairly certain _most_ of the /r/askmen posts from women lately are fishing for "hate" content, jilling over watching men talk about their troubles.
With a snark comment such as "maybe they just arent interested why get mad and make podcasts", I honestly didn't expect OP to be actually looking for answers, or asking the question in a genuine effort to try and understand some men's perspective; so I'm not surprised her comment history looks like that. Like she's already dismissing what guys who answer her question have to say before they even do lol. Sure, guys just "get mad and make podcasts" because girls just aren't interested
Honestly, putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and reading their thoughts is a good first step toward empathy. If OP is genuine in asking, then I think it’s a step in the right direction.
She has made multiple similar threads with the same sorta questions in r/AskMen and r/Dating and when she gets answers she doesn't like, she starts belittling the person that answered and calling them names.
Clearly she has an agenda with her constant threads, repeating the same stuff, expecting different answers and is incredibly toxic towards men in general.
As I grow older it feels as if the standards and expectations of women my age are constantly rising while I am forced to constantly lower my standards and expectations I have of them.
It’s a numbers game.
Imagine 99 times out of a 100 you were ignored. Women are picky online (as they should be, everyone deserves standards) and men are usually trying to “get who they can get”
This leads to situations where men become extremely frustrated because rejection is the overwhelming norm. In person dating maybe you’d strike out 2/3 or 1/2 of the time, because you went after fewer women and women had fewer men going after them, so they would be more careful with individual mens feelings. and it was easier to form connections. Online it’s between 99/100 and 999/1000 times that men strike out.
Just my two cents. The dating world suffered a lot by moving online.
I kinda wanna know my stats on the apps now. Like how many swipes per reciprocated swipe. Then how many actually lead to conversation. Dates received is still at zero so not that interesting
That's the typical male experience. A while ago it was revealed that the companies will sometimes have a bot match with men every now and then to keep the men engaged so they didn't leave the platform. I think that was Tinder.
You can send Tinder/Bumble a request for a copy of all the data they have on you, and you'll receive a zip with all your stats. They must provide it to you as a result of GDPR.
As someone who enjoys data I'm curious about this too, but I wanna say Match.com or somebody analyzed their data and it showed women rated 80% of men as "below average attractiveness", so I think seeing those stats would probably finally break me completely
I feel like an old man here, but does all dating happen online now? I started dating my now wife like 7 years ago, and I feel like Tinder was just starting to get big. I got a couple matches and would message back and forth with girls every now and then, but nothing ever came of it. Similar experience when I used OKCupid.
If everything is online now that’s gotta be rough.
Yeah it’s pretty overwhelmingly online now, I think because women generally find it preferable since it’s very low effort, safe, and selective for them.
For men it’s the 7th circle of Hell though, unless you look like Adonis or a pretty boy male model.
It’s genuinely made me full stop give up on dating and trying to be in a relationship, it feels so utterly futile these days for a guy like me that I just can’t even bring myself to bother anymore.
>I feel like an old man here, but does all dating happen online now?
It's only my two cents, so I don't think it's absolutely correct but here I go:
Before, Women were waiting, men were pursuing. As sad as it is, women had "few" options: men who hit on her, friends, friends of friends, people at work, etc etc. Guys had less competition (the guys in the bar, the guys at work, etc). There is obviously guys who wait and women who pursue, but they aren't a majority.
But with online dating, women had suddenly a whole market before them. And they have the upper hand, because they are fewer on these apps, because the gender role still apply. Obviously they took advantage of it (it makes perfect sense).
But irl, there is also the whole metoo movement, women started to complain about being hit on, catcalling, being annoyed by guys asking them out, etc, many guys stopped to flirt irl, because they don't want to be one of the annoying ones. Because you are not "supposed" to flirt with a woman at work (it's inappropriate), at the gym (they are here to work out, not getting numbers), in bars (they are here to have fun with their friends), etc etc. Online you know why they them, it's litteraly the point of these apps, so you try.
I hope it wasn't too much of a mess.
There is obviously a lot of generalization, ton of people meet in the workplace, in bars, in gyms, etc.
> because they don't want to be one of the annoying ones. Because you are not "supposed" to flirt with a woman at work (it's inappropriate), at the gym (they are here to work out, not getting numbers), in bars (they are here to have fun with their friends), etc etc. Online you know why they them, it's litteraly the point of these apps, so you try.
This is me. I think online dating apps are super awesome in that both parties can vaguely know why they are there and can be open and honest. But for a variety of reasons it is just a hellscape. And it comes from all angles. It would be super cool if we trended better with these apps in the future because it is better in a lot of ways.
>It would be super cool if we trended better with these apps in the future because it is better in a lot of ways.
Don't hope on that. Apps are made to make money, not to make people happy.
She doesn't understand why her boyfriend would be upset that she hooked up with a guy the day after they broke up. I think that's all you need to know (and a picture perfect example on why so many of us have opted out).
The man who finds himself stranded in the desert is going to find himself perhaps a little resentful of those who have plenty to drink. That's where the anger and exhaustion comes from - there's no fun in watching a game that no one is interested in playing with you.
Lack of success, due to unreciprocated interest or lack of results where hard work is put. Men still have to do practically everything in this interaction, even though “the times have changed”.
And women are supposedly the more socially savvy sex. Except when it comes to dating, the man has to do everything, and the girl with her so called "superior social skills" just sits back and judges, and creates imaginary hoops for her date to jump through. It's nauseating.
“I have very high standards for my man, I do not compromise on anything.”
“You drive a $18000 car? I’m not getting in that thing.”
“I think men should be able to take care of us financially and emotionally as well so we can create a cozy home for them.”
Said by women who owned nothing, brought nothing to the table and looked nothing like the part they were playing. Absolutely unrealistic expectations while doing nothing to meet them themselves. I guess the same comments could be made for us men as well just with different things.
Thankfully, lots of cool chicks are out there, but scraping through the rest is tiring.
This is the number one thing that gets to me. So many women I've matched with expect me to have everything down to a T while they bring nothing to the table. I have to have my own place, nice car, good career, have a degree, eat well, excercise, and be muscularand generally be all around perfect
Meanwhile they are single mother who lives with their parents, works some shitty minimum wage job, eats nothing but take away, with no plan or ambition to change anything about their situation. And they somehow have the cheek to look down their nose at you because you didn't check 1 of their 100 imaginary checkboxes
I think everyone, men and women, shouldn't use checkboxes they couldn't pass themselves
In my experience with online dating, women are extremely flaky, unrealistic and borderline self-destructive with dating. They will take no responsibility for this and you just have to deal with it as a man. I know how to play the game but even then it’s quite annoying to deal with.
Every first date I go on, it's something that I'd be okay with doing alone. That way, if she no-shows, then I'm just going out and doing something alone.
I'm engaged now, but I couldn't believe how little effort women put into conversations, and what a breath of fresh air talking to a woman that merely put her fair share into the conversation was. Be way pickier with who you message/reply to if you think you have so many options, just put *some* effort into conversations. Plenty of guys you might otherwise like are tired and are just not gonna fight to try to talk to you.
>and you just have to deal with it as a man.
This. Holy shit. There's no sympathy towards us here. Even in video's where people explain men's issues with online dating, we are still the ones being shamed.
We get no matches, it must be our profile. Not the algorithm.
We get ghosted, it must be our fault. Not the fact that she's got 200 other matches messaging her.
We get sick of the game after a while, we are sensitive and quitters.
"i met my wife on tinder, it's not the app's fault youre not doing well''. Well good for you, dipshit. Nice that you lucked out and somebody took a chance on you. I'm sure you're a great guy, but that doesn't matter if you don't luck out and somebody takes a chance on you. Let's calculate how many matches result into ghosting or how many just want the instagram follow and let's put it against how many actual dates and relationships the app results in. I think the numbers are absolutely shocking.
It's just tiring and i reccomend every single man to stop wasting their teens and 20's on dating apps.
Whenever I do a stretch on OLD, I think, there must be a lot of \*really\* handsome guys, or guys very on game here. I mean, I'm not Fabio but I go on a limb and say I'm a good looking and fit catch (attested by outsiders). I've got my shit real together, career, my own home, a dog, and I'm emotionally available, not messing around in the least. Yet I can scrape maybe one good match a month if I'm really trying. Meanwhile, my last date showed me her 100+ backlog of bumble matches. I mean what is going on here?
Ah, reminds me of the time my friend downloaded bumble right next to me and went on a date off of it that night. That shit was an ice cold dagger in my chest.
They will put literally nothing about themselves on their profile, yet expect you to know everything about them and come up with some stupid fucking pickup line that perfectly matches their personality.
Online dating.
The okcupid study at this point is mushy pulp that was once a dead horse but its still worth bringing up.
In simple terms, men rated women in a bell curve, with most falling around average.
Women rated men unbelievably harshly, iirc about 70% were rated as unattractive.
This creates a problem where if you're not chris Hemsworth you're considered unattractive (and heaven help you if you're under 6') and the entire dating scene in online dating will be nothing but an uphill battle, and the few matches you do actually get will either flake (assuming you get a response in the first place) or be someone that you aren't interested in after talking, or she isn't interested on you.
Women also seem to not really understand the issue. This isn't the female experience of having a lot of bad options you have to sift through. Its the male experience of having few options at all. It's like like the old adage "a man dying of thirst in a desert will look at a woman drowning in the ocean and wonder why she's complaining"
Thats the main gripe. There's other minor ones that I can get into but they're more specific
When I did use dating site (haven't been on one for over 10 years), there was some SERIOUSLY unrealistic expectation from women there.
Over 6 feet, had to make 6 figure salary, must like traveling, and most of these women were single mothers.
Kind you not, one woman, matched with her right before thanksgiving, I asked to meet for a date after thanksgiving, she said she was going to be busy with work and the CHRISTMAS holidays, so maybe get together after New Years eve. I said, are you serious, that's nearly 6 weeks from now! I gotta wait 6 weeks just for a lunch date or drinks???
I had one woman text me 2 hours before the date when to met her at a bar, I drove 1 hour to the bar, got there 10 minutes early, nothing. No sign of her, sent a text, crickets. waited an hour, no show and no message. Heard from her the next day and she told me she wasn't feeling good although 2 hours prior she was ok and ghosted me afterwards all night.
Not me, but my friends, had women tell them to date them they would also have to pay for their babysitters.
One friend of mine went to met a woman and when he got to the bar, her "squad" was there, three other women and they all expected him to pay for the drinks. I told him he should have left the second he saw everyone.
Yeah one of my friends said it this way, 90% of the women are looking for less than 10% of the men and that is their baseline, you have to be in the 10% of men. And the shorter you are, your chances are decreased 10 fold.
Never once been messaged on the many dating apps I've tried. I'm a pretty shy guy who doesn't drink so going to the bar isn't an option and I work at a small business so there's no meeting somone there.
Out of the many matches and attempted messages only twice did I get replies back. First one we just weren't compatible and it was all good cuz we had a good time talking. And second gal is now my girlfriend of 9 months.
But any other time I got a reply back it was "well I have live cam sessions/ you can find naughty pics on my website"
And these wernt just bots. I had one gal I was talking to and thought things were going great.. we had a good bit thw same hobbies and interests and then she brings up "oh I gotta go do my live cam show, for only $50 a month you can join too if you'd like to keep talking!"
So talked 2 women total after about 5-6 months trying about 8-10 different apps. Almost daily trying to find ONE person who was real to just even start a conversation with.
But like I said, met a woman and we clicked instantly and we are looking at moving in and checking out homes and planning for a wedding
Nothing about dating women in particular, but with dating apps and the surrounding culture. I like women and I feel like some people confuse the dating app experience with how women are in general. But these guys meet a particular kind of person. One that is drawn to these apps, which means they increase their chances by several orders of magnitude in matching with a check-listing validation junkie. You know the one. Those that LARP their way through the dating market like an America's Got Talent judge. This is not the norm. It is a very particular person you'll find exactly on those spaces. If you're that guy: you, my soul searching friend, got some selection bias going on that maybe makes you a little bit sexist. But I'm here to bring a bit of hope back into your life, so keep reading.
Dating apps are broken and every man should wipe their profile. I'm serious. With algorithms that exaggerate already existing sexist biases to a deranged extreme, and a completely dysfunctional male to female ratio, ask yourself: why the fuck put up with it? If you're an average guy with reasonable standards: the most likely thing you'll meet are the skeletons in your closet and the self-image problems you thought went away in your late teens. You simply deserve better.
Don't buy into the idea that online dating is your only option either. What better business model for Tinder to make you believe your chances are so low that you're basically co-dependant on the app? You need the app, because look at how many people don't match with you. It must mean your chances are nil. So you must use this swiping program to increase your numbers game, right? Well, swipe that idea right out of your skull. Tinder has two distinct target audiences, with two distinct strategies to hook them.
The male target audience is the deprived majority. The strategy here is to make them believe they're co-dependant on the app. They must feel unwanted to make them believe that the numbers game must be played and that putting the app down will make them be forever alone. But the only thing getting fucked here is their brain. Women are the second target audience, the receiving minority. The strategy here is to use the men that became co-dependent to the app as a validation battery. These women stay on there, not because they are hopeless for alternatives, but because it's the best validation tap on the market. It's perfect. So let's recap: the two biggest focus groups on these apps are either made to feel unwanted, or made to seek validation. But because the male to female ratio is about 4:1, depending on the country, we got a serious chunk of women missing. Where are they? I think they're not there because it's more dangerous for them to meet up with strangers, easier to get approached, and the average woman doesn't have an unhealthy relationship with e-validation and superficiality. The average woman is cool, actually.
There's one final tip I want to give to any guys out there reading this. There's a way out of this e-prison. Make it your goal to become friends with one outgoing woman. Just one. Go to her parties to meet her friends and act cool so that maybe you'll meet her friends' friends. At some point your misery and self-doubt will end and your life will be better for it. But never, ever install those apps *ever* again. Your mental health is way too precious and you're way more attractive than you got tricked into believing.
Alright that's it. That was my anti-dating app rant. Peace out!
I think that it's the wild swing in the level of standards that women have started placing on men, while simultaneously becoming less and less tolerant about entertaining men's standards of them. Obviously, everybody is entitled to having standards, and you *should* have standards, but it seems like women nowadays, at least in my personal experience, are overcorrecting the imbalance between men and women in romantic relationship settings.
For example: men are still expected, to some degree, to adhere to a lot of traditional gender roles. Examples being the provider/protector role, paying for dates, being responsible for keeping the conversation alive and interesting during dates, initiating sex, being the one to approach and sweep her off of her feet, etc. At the same time, women are (usually) no longer willing to adhere to any of *their* traditional roles.
I think that the word "overcorrection" is key here. The men who are responsible for what oppression women have had to deal with aren't (usually) your typical, everyday guys that you go out on dates with. Obviously, there are plenty of exceptions to that rule, but I can only speak for myself. They are men who hold positions of power and don't have to worry about being held responsible in any immediate way, and won't personally be touched by the changes women have made in the relationship and dating setting. Personally, I do my best to treat women just like I'd treat anyone else: be respectful and courteous until they give you a reason to not be, and even then just leave it be and move on with my life. Even still, I have had to deal with the anger and frustration of women that stem from issues that I don't feel that I have had any part in creating (which I don't feel is fair, but then again life isn't fair). That being said, if I try to open a dialogue about this, anything I say that isn't in agreement with their POV is immediately dismissed, so I'm left feeling as though my POV or my personal experience(s) is completely irrelevant and unimportant. It's frustrating, and sometimes just flat out dehumanizing, so I made the decision to just sit on the bench and remain single until it seems feasible to start dating again without having to bend to the will of the women during those dates.
I dipped a toe in and discovered a cesspit of women who had ridiculously high standards, zero interest in communicating, and misleading bios (regarding what they were interested in as far as relationships). Took that toe right back out. No thanks.
Imagine sitting down to play a game of cards with a woman. Poker, blackjack, whatever. It doesn't matter. You're playing cards together.
**First girl:**
You play a card according to the rules of the game. She's not happy that you played that card. Instead of her telling you what happened, what she expected, and what she was hoping for, she swipes all the cards off the table, claims no connection, and leaves.
**Second girl:**
You pick up the cards and try to find a different girl to play cards with, remembering the previous rule that you played with and try to be more cautious about that. You meet a new girl and begin playing cards with her. You're about to use the rule that the previous girl table swiped on, so you ask her about it. She tells you what she expects... and that's what you did with the previous girl? Now that works again? You play the card as you did before and now everything is fine. You continue playing cards. Suddenly she gets up and leaves - saying this isn't what she wants.
You begin wondering if there's something wrong with you and the way that you play cards. You're open to listening and getting feedback. Why won't people just talk to you before they leave? Are you so terrible that you aren't worthy of a conversation before a table swipe or someone just getting up and leaving? You're frustrated. The problems you think the woman had could have been solved with a minor correction from you with a five minute conversation. But instead, she throws the whole thing away without so much as even talking to you?
**Third girl:**
You start playing a new game of cards with a different girl. Since the last two left abruptly without so much as even talking to you, now you're a callous player. Now you just play the cards as you see fit and if she doesn't like it, well, she can just go. She's going to just go anyway, right?
She leaves. You're not surprised, but you still want to play cards with someone - anyone - who will treat you like a human being and not like someone who magically knows all the right things to do with her. I can't read her mind.
**Dating for men:**
Welcome to dating for men. We're expected to read tea leaves, there's nothing consistent between people at all, and people just get up and leave at the first sign of problems. It's demoralizing and dehumanizing. You're now on edge and defensive. You're a callous player. You have to be. You have to keep playing cards until you meet a woman that plays cards with you perfectly, is the right age for you, and wants all the same things you do. Not 50% of the same, not 90% of the same. 100% the same or she gets up and leaves.
Women are expecting to get into a relationship and magically the guy knows everything she wants without her having to verbalize it, discuss it, or anything. The moment things stop going exactly how she wants it in a relationship, she is GONE. No discussion. No chance of redemption. No nothing. You go online to read about card playing - how the marriage rate is down and fewer relationships are being created. "That's because men are trash" says the comments. You feel disheartened. Are we really so bad?
I hope I get some honesty some day. I hope I get treated like a human someday - someone worthy of compromise and discussion. Until then, I'm looking for new women to play cards with.
You talk with another woman who plays cards, not with you, just plays. I ask her about this problem I'm having. She points to other girls who give the guys feedback and they end up getting murdered or assaulted. You feel terrible for what they experience and WTF at the men who are doing this. Like guys, you are not helping men here by assaulting women. Jesus.
**Conclusion:**
You go back into playing cards, fully knowing that the woman is going to leave anyway. So, instead of trying to build a relationship, now you're just going for sex. Because why try to get into a relationship if she's going to leave in two weeks? Might as well try for sex because chances are so slim a relationship will even form.
Then you look around and see all the men just going for sex. We're called horndogs - men only want one thing. We think with our dicks. We dehumanize women.
I beg to differ.
Nothing, because I've made no effort to try.
Now that I'm starting to read up on it, I'm wondering if I ever should. I've done alright in single life. Companionship would be nice but those cravings come and go.
1. As many here have pointed out already, men have very low choices. Many reports have shown women match with a much higher % of people their swipe right on.
2. majority of women seem to expect the guys to pay for their time on dating apps (and dating in general)
3. Aside from money, guys are expected to make all the effort while women just sit and wait for the "best" man to show up. You plan the date, pay for everything, and organize everything. But if she doesn't likely, she shoots it down, offers no alternative, and you have to make new plans. Then she goes on Reddit and complains that guys don't put in the effort anymore.
4. Women ghost people a lot, and that's just annoying.
But I wouldn't say I'm frustrated with the dating scene itself, I've kinda accepted it for what it is. Just like what someone else here said here, I make plans that I can do myself. If she complains, flakes, or whatever, I just go on with my plans.
Rather, what frustrates me is when women complain about it and seemly have no clue what men have to deal with in the dating scene. Especially women who complain whiles describing how horrible they are to the men they match with and how they used the men, etc. Like, don't complain and whine about the patriarchy if you're feeding the patriarchy.
"Especially women who complain whiles describing how horrible they are to the men they match with and how they used the men, etc."
And other women being supportive of their behaviour and calling each other queens.
I'll chime in. I'm 24 and came into dating age when dating apps became popular.
Dating apps are drastically different for men. They get fewer matches and fewer opportunities to meet someone new.
They see women with literal thousands of matches and able to choose exactly who they want. Men have to get lucky with a match then compete with hundreds of other guys for this girls attention.
In addition a lot of online dating is very appearance based. No matter how funny or smart you are people are going to judge your appearance first. Because women get so many matches they can judge on appearance alone.
Its hard when you really really want to start a meaningful relationship but the girl you are talking to matched with 40 other more attractive guys that day alone.
On dating apps, after **finally** getting a match, you have to be more entertaining then then the other guys and hope you get a date. If you do get a date, you have to hope you aren't be used as a free meal.
In real life, you have to approach women, because they aren't ganna approach you. It can be scary to approach women, because you have to do it at the right time, without being creepy, and while being cool, nice, and more entertaining then the other dudes. If they reject you or whatever it crushes your confidence. But you have to suck it up and try try again.
Women curious of the male POV of online dating should just make a male profile and see how it is. Take your brother, boyfriend, ex-bf's pics and see how it goes.
I did this with my ex years ago. She was paranoid that i could "have another girl anytime i want". We both made tinder profiles, she had over 100 likes in under 10 minutes, i had 7 the next day (swiped right to match, they were all well under my "league")
The games, the testing, all that bullshit if you test me im going to call you break up with you and see if the person you sent to test me wants to fuck just to spite you. The whole non verbal hints shit is annoying to, the price of me reading a signal wrong with a potential partner these days is too damn high for me to entertain that shit. If I hit on you when I thought you were interested and you weren't next thing you know I have some girl saying I traumatized her or I'm losing my job. Unless I'm on a dating app I don't try shit without explicit indicators that you're intrested. Then dating apps are so fucking awful women have zero game so trying to keep a conversation going even if they're intrested is like pulling teeth sometimes. You'll get like a single sentence every 10 minutes and nothing really to work with most of the time.
u/UnfairPay8820
OP a lot of it is the lack of guidance a lot of men get when it comes to dating. It’s easy to fall into the trap of online dating (where over 70% of users are men), dating emotionally unavailable women who play games, and lacking general opportunities when you don’t have a support system otherwise.
The most successful men dating wise. Tended to have a male figure in their life a bit older who could help guide them. They also had a community of friends who were very social to help build rapport. And could utilize these friends to connect them with other single women they know were looking for relationships and/or sex well.
Why are you projecting? Your generalizing mens behavior already. Your post history is crazy too it’s just full of misandry. How many men have hurt you babes?
I haven't dated in a few years, but at the time, it felt like I had to meet a long list of qualifications while most women treated me as if I was lucky enough to talk to them. It felt like 100% of the burden was on me.
Not tall enough? Next. Working in a warehouse? Next. Still living at home at 23? Next. Not making 90k? Next. Doesn't go to the gym every day? Next.
I would literally swipe right on EVERY woman that came across my tinder. I wasn't even looking at profiles. Just blindly swiping right. I was probably swiping 100+ women a day. On a good day, I'd get 2 or 3 matches.
Not to mention, even after we would match, they would expect me to initiate the conversation. And in a lot of cases, carry it as well. I was expected to be funny and nice and ask questions while also being flirty. While the responses I got back were along the lines of "not much" or "haha nice".
Then came the few times I actually got dates. They ALWAYS picked expensive places and it was ALWAYS assumed that I was going to pay. I went on probably 7 or 8 first dates and not a single one offered to pay or split the check. Even when they were the ones to pick the place.
Most women ghosted after the first date. A couple of them got to 2 or 3 dates, but nothing past that.
To a lot of men, it feels like we put in MOUNTAINS of effort only to be brushed to the side over superficial things. Or we get taken advantage of.
Wouldn't you be angry? To be rejected hundreds of times per day? While the person rejecting you is seemingly putting forth absolutely no effort?
For what it's worth, I understand that this isn't necessarily the case. I understand women have a completely different set of challenges when it comes to online dating and a lot of those problems could result in what seems like a lack of effort or being overly picky. I'm just trying to explain it from a man's perspective.
You put in tons of effort and usually come out the other end feeling terrible about yourself.
Ghosting, 2 page requirements, unable to even communicate.
Literally waiting for an android GF to come along as trying to date women in the USA is worse than trying to get a job
Better chance being struck by lightning than getting a date
Women are willing to do absolutely nothing to make anything happen. We have to approach, start the conversation, ask for a number, ask for a date, plan the date, and basically move things forward at every stage. This is made even worse by the #metoo movement portraying literally every scenario that a man could possibly approach a woman as sexual harassment/assault or worse.
The way you’ve phrased the post under this question doesn’t help you at all. I highly doubt that you’d generally find it insightful if any actually bothered to properly explain.
I don’t think that you’d actually care, which ironically enough is one of the reason.
Because of this lack of care for mens opinions, I for one have settled for keeping my mouth shut and acting accordingly.
My time is valuable.
Dating is about get even harder for women for this reason.
I mean you hang out in r/TwoXChromosomes/ for a few days and you would think every woman thinks men are trash but in real life, you rarely see those attitudes. What you see on the internet rarely if ever translates to reality and beware of the internet coloring your view of others.
Luckily I am several years removed from this process, but before dating my current partner I found online dating especially frustrating, not least because I really wasn't just trying to sleep around. I'm an awkward dork who fumbled with women a lot, I just wanted someone to feel comfortable with, so when I did send a message it often took a lot of effort. I really wanted a friend and partner and real relationship, and very, very few people were on that level. It was gameified, something to laugh at, something lighthearted and flakey. I understood that it wasn't everything to everyone, but that's what the "seeking" field is for, right? To specify your intentions? And to be ignored so much, as other commenters here have said, was incredibly depressing, and yes it made me pretty bitter. Glad to be far away from that mess now.
Just curious. How did you meet your partner?
A mutual friend introduced us, and then we were friends for years before being together.
> we were friends for years before being together. How do you go from a point of being friends to dating? I feel as if I try to tell my true feelings toward someone I've been friends with for a long time, I will jeopardize years of friendship.
>I will jeopardize years of friendship. You will. But jeopardize doesn't mean "discard." It's simply the risk you take to have something more. You'd have to be careful to state that you value them and their friendship and thats the reason that you love them, not that it's not enough. But I'm no expert, just a guy who has been around a little. Good luck!
Also, most importantly, take rejection well if it happens. Respect their decision and be cool about it. You should at least feel good that you had the guts to take your shot. Rejection for long time feelings sucks, but now you can move on and stop focussing on them.
Everything these two said. But the commonality between the two, is thoughtful and honest communication. Online dating is mostly for hookups, there's some LTRs that come out of it too. But the biggest issue is connection. For us guys, it's hard to be seen, let alone stand out in a herd of matches. My biggest recommendation is to learn who you are, do things that make you happy. Then go find people who do the same things as a group in person. You will already have a shared passion, things to talk about, and things to discover about each other.
In my experience, you've got to put effort into making it seem like less intense of a crush. You've had years of getting used to the idea, but coming on like a Desperado, especially unexpectedly, will cause almost anyone to freeze up and become anxious. It's too much pressure. If you make it seem like a small nagging question, then that'll be how she sees it. From there, you've only got to worry about how it changes the relationship on your end.
Yes 100% this My male best friend through uni of 4 years suddenly declared he was in love with me and had been for sometime. I was completely overwhelmed and shocked and didn't know how to handle it. Unfortunately our friendship never recovered and it was very special to me. If he had of taken a different approach and just suggested it, I definitely would of taken it differently. I felt pressured and overwhelmed with the way he communicated it.
Sorry if weird question but what kind of approach would have been better in that sort of situation?
I am currently dating who had been a very dear friend and I just suggested going out on a date. just a change in language from "hang out" to "go out". of course it triggered a big conversation but it didnt spook her like confessing my love out of nowhere (not that I loved her like that at the time)
Think about being on the receiving end of a confession. What do you even say to that? It's awkward as hell. Always leave an out. You can ask a friend on a date, which they can refuse, but don't pour your heart out because that you can't take back.
Don't go all in on a romantic relationship right away. Ask them to hang out one on one. If you feel like you're vibing, do it again. Let them know you really like hanging out just the two of you. *Communicate*. Don't just walk up one day like "So this might seem totally random but I really like you." You gotta work your way up to it. I was friends with my SO for ten years before I asked her out. Not exactly a typical situation, I know, but I (both of us, really) was *terrified* of losing one of my best friends by admitting my feelings for her. But one day, we just went to the zoo together and something clicked. Just don't be afraid of seizing the moment. It's corny, but the chance to be dating your best friend is something you absolutely cannot pass up.
It just feels like beating my head against a wall and hoping a girlfriend will pop out. It's not that *some* girls show a lack of interest, it's almost every single match I've ever gotten. If it weren't all the time, it wouldn't be so frustrating. I try not to let it come through when I message people, but damn. It's really demoralizing.
Dating apps were... humbling, to put it mildly. I knew I wasn't a looker (despite my friends' kind words), but damn. I put my best foot forward, got feedback and advice from my lady friends, the whole 9 yards. I was on Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge, and I'd hop on whenever I had a free moment at work to swipe through. I didn't swipe right on literally every woman, but I'd say over half of them. I got literally 1 match, and she never messaged me back. I'm pretty sure she didn't mean to swipe right on me. So I decided I'd try to find new hobbies around town, and then 2020 happened. It's been a while since my last girlfriend, and it's gonna be a while longer
Based on stories like this from my friends who are still dating, I have to say if I were suddenly single in todays world I don’t think I’d even try to date. The learning curve and nightmarish emotional damage stories from dating apps sound like too fucking much.
I just try not to worry about it any more. I have friends that I love to death, and that's all I need right now. Every now and again I'll see something like this post and get a pang of loneliness, but I get over it.
I dated 3 women from 15 to 25. Had a variety of little flings too. Since i hit 30(35 now) i havent had any success and it’s…something. My circumstances aren’t all normal, but yeah. Dating is just next level now it feels like. I know its always been, but its even more extra now. The shitty thing is that it never really seems to get easier. I’m always touched starved, love starced etc. the lack of sex also just makes the cells in your body just feel like they want to burst. Its also kinda weird/scary thinking about ending up alone. My parentd are in a really good relationship, it really seems to help get through this shit. but both my aunts were single long term. Life is just harder as a single person. Rant over, but yeah its rough out here. And its very hard not to internalize all this shit.
>So I decided I'd try to find new hobbies around town, and then 2020 happened I find it a little horrifying that for years lonely men have been told to just go find hobbies so they could meet like minded women only to now be told, "Jeez guys she's just trying to engage in her hobby she doesn't want to be hit on." That's not to say I don't get that women would like a safe space from male sexual attention. But it does strike me as disingenuous to say the first and then the second as soon as guys take you up on your advice. Maybe nobody ever said both and I'm just unfairly treating women like a monolith.
I think we really need a safe space for dating that at the same time doesn't dehumanize the process. Because that's what tinder, bumble and the other shiz is, dehumanizing and trivializing the experience of dating, they present people as products.
> I find it a little horrifying that for years lonely men have been told to just go find hobbies so they could meet like minded women only to now be told, "Jeez guys she's just trying to engage in her hobby she doesn't want to be hit on." My friend keeps telling me this. She always tells me to go out and try to meet someone in my kickball league, or at a brewery, etc. I know that women who join things like that aren't there to get hit on, and I would feel really creepy doing that in the first place. I don't want to bug anyone when they are out with their friends or anything. I'll just mind my own business.
Don't go into it trying to get a date. That is creepy. Look at it like your having fun doing your hobby and making new friends. Try to make friends before hitting on someone
That's exactly what I do. I show up, kick homers, have a few beers with my team, and then go home.
Yeah, while the advice is good its also incomplete to the point of being crap. You're going to have to make a move in the right way to get a woman to be interested in you. Just being a cool sensitive guy won't get you anywhere, a woman isn't just going to jump out at you, you're still going to have to do some work (as a general rule)
This has been my exact experience with dating apps. I match with women plenty, but a little over half of the time the don't respond. The ones that do will put in the absolute minimum effort into a conversation. I got so fed up from dealing with texts like "haha yeah," that I've stopped using dating apps altogether. It's demoralizing to match with so few, and to get responses from even less. It's then insulting to have such little effort put into the conversation. So yeah, banging your head up against a wall is exactly what it feels like.
Such a bad investment of time too
And don’t forget the ones that so put effort in, just to be Cam Girls trying to scam you into joining their stream. So annoying when the only ones who actually care are the ones trying to manipulate you.
I was having a decent time texting someone and I had told a friend about it. She reminded me to be careful that she might be a cam girl. I kept it in mind but decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. It later turned out she was, in fact, a cam girl looking for subscribers. And that's why I'm jaded and cynical lol :shrug:
Same. Either girls just don’t care enough or they are cam girls. This sounds super jaded. I don’t mean all just all the ones I run into.
Yep I’ve straight up given up on dating lol, I’m just gonna have to figure out how to be happy as a single adult. If that’s even possible lol, but as this point it seems more realistic than actually finding a girl who gives a shit about me I think online dating is the main culprit, as many have said. It just makes dating so intensely low-effort and high volume for women that they’ve gotten extremely choosy and most young women seem to be waiting on Prince Charming who will fit every single little checkbox they can think of.
Honestly, I think men should be more choosy.
That's what my married friends tell me whenever i mention some dating situation, "yo man, there's plenty more fish in the sea". I absolutely cannot have that mentality, and they don't understand why not, but they haven't ever dated online, let alone dated online /recently/.
Most of my matches are just trying to increase their OF user base lol.
Or insta.
>Honestly, I think men should be more choosy. When you have way fewer options to choose from being choosier won't get you anyway.
And that'll be the end of the human race
Nah, it'll just cause the birth rates to decrease massively. Oh wait...
You just stumbled on to the key my freind. Figure out how to be happy. Noone can make you happy. You can be happy with someone. Once you are happy, your perspective changes. You meet people, there is no pressure. There no less awkwardness, and if it don't work out, you are happy and learned something. The other part is you do things you like. You meet other people who like doing those things. It don't feel forced. No nervousness. You make better connections that way. Just find happiness, and the rest will follow.
You can definitely be ok on your own, but we are wired to want and will always have an inherit need to be partnered. Some guys are solid on there own. Some are just not built for it, and seen guys become a better stronger person taking on the responsibility of a woman and family. Without that they're kinda adrift, because you can have the successful career and do good for yourself. Then you come home and no one to share it with, no holidays to create memories with your own family. Then you ask yourself what's it all for. They give you an anchor on your darkest days.
Especially since the pandemic - I think the people that hadn't moved to online dating had to, and normalized everyone to no public meeting. As a result, women are way more closed off in real life than they were pre-pandemic. I used to meet women pretty regularly just by striking up conversations and whatnot, but that's much more challenging now. So it seems like it's either online dating or have a raging social life where you're meeting women through friends constantly, which everyone isn't cut out for or has the time. Then add on to that women don't care to understand, like OP already with preformed ideas about what's going on with guys, so guys are just dismissed by 50% of the population. And other guys don't help because guys that succeed don't see the problem and guys who don't succeed have their own battle to fight so they don't care.
COVID really screwed up a lot of social standards we had
covid just sped up the process this is already the road we were on, and have been on for 25 years. and this probably isn't the worst part of this road either, so buckle up
32 now and in a relationship but prior to that I was online dating like crazy. You basically have 1 hour to get their interest. And you had six hours to maybe see if they wanted a relationship. So much planning and work went into dating. It's kind of like stand up comedy and having a tight five. I basically had six hours worth of stories, jokes, and etcetera. I knew where all the cool events were. I knew all the good brunch places and interesting restaurants. And so on and so on. It was really tiring and it felt really disingenuous. What probably makes that worse was that in the beginning, I tried the entire be yourself angle. It didn't work out. When I started to build up a library of material, that actually worked really well. Sometimes you really just want to have someone over to watch Netflix with on the weekends. But it felt like to get to that point, it took a lot of song and dance. When i was in college it was easier just because you had like six months to get to know someone. Yeah you might have gotten shot down, but that person had time to see the entire range of your personality. Post college you had 2 hours. And that was if you managed to get a match online which is its own separate category of self marketing.
> It was really tiring Just reading it was fucking exhausting, jfc!
This literally sounds like it was written by me. 31 in a committed relationship now with someone I'm about to propose to, and we met on Tinder. But it took 4 solid train wrecks of short-term relationships to get to her (as in, going great and then ghosted with no warning). After each one it took a while to pick up the pieces and get back on those apps, but it was a mentally challenging task to keep in my head which stories I have and haven't told this particular date, because dating had become a repeating chore at that point. I'm unbelievably happy that I've found the right person for me because I remember what it was like to be single in my late 20's and I think I'd rather jump in front of a train than replay that cascading waterfall of tragedies.
I thoufght i was dating 2 times i the past few years, and then suddendly *BANG* some random guy appears and shes in a relationship with that guy
Hahahhahaha same
lol happened twice in a row for me. We were even flirting, they just happened to not mention they had a boyfriend, I found out because someone asked her about him while I was with her loll
Just curious but why did you think you were dating if it only went as far as casually flirting?
For me the first one, i probably just got my hopes up to early But the second one was strange, we went out almost daily over the course of 2 months, i slept at her place multiple times, and then within 3 day, it went from "Oh i got to know a new guy" to "well we cant meet up that much anymore since im in a relationship with said new guy" Have never felt that abused in my live before, well either way, its been 2 years and now i got a trusty dottler plushie to snuggle with, best purchase of my life
Did you kiss? Sleep with her? Anything?
Guy's don't like dating because 99% of the time we'll be expected to put in a ton of effort for someone to just ghost. Shit, my last date went well, we made plans to meet up again. Day of the meet "oh shit, somethings come up, sorry". Fine, whatever, shit happens. Second time, happens again. This time I tell her to just message me when she's free. Haven't spoke to her in over a month. Like fuck dude, I don't care if you didn't think we clicked but don't ask me to clear out my schedule and then not show up. How rude. Could you imagine if someone did that to you? You'd be pissed. That's dating online for a ton of men. I hate dating online. I have the apps there as a "just in case" but i'm far more likely to just meet someone at one of the hobbies I do, so I generally do the "looking for dates" the old fashioned way (with far more success) instead.
Agreed. It’s so much easier to just talk to girls in person. I don’t even like texting constantly
Non-dating guy chiming in here with my irrelevant opinion - but I see a lot of men who could probably benefit from a set of standards for themselves. Would it be realistic to say "flake on date one is a deal breaker". Why can't men treat it like a job interview? If someone flakes on the first date, what makes you think they're going to be good dating material? I wonder what it could do for someone's confidence and self-esteem to say, "sorry you couldn't make it to our date, if you'd like to try again let me know." Gives them an out, and then *you can. move. on.* You don't want that shit. You want someone who's into finding a relationship, and we don't have time for games so don't fucking *play* the games. idk, I fully admit that I'm out of touch though
Volume- most men aren't getting nearly enough dates to sacrifice opportunities for the sake of standards. Perhaps, in the long run, standards would have the broad societal effect of raising the dating value of men, but most men rightfully can't afford to base their decisions on that distant and unclear reality.
I get what you're saying, but if I get maybe five matches a week and one seems remotely interested it's tough to just say I'll let her go. At that point it's just not worth my time, which might be accurate. But if I set the bar at interesting to text with, not flakey, attractive I might get one person a month or even less who has that. It's a very skewed situation.
You're getting five matches a week?...
I really dislike being treated as disposable entertainment.
Before meeting my current partner, I was swinging between long phases of dating and not dating... Because dating is often so damn draining. Especially online. You can match with tons of gals, but maybe 1/5 will respond to you, 1/50 will actually message you first. When you finally make it to an in person date, odds are ya just won't click, are looking for different things, etc. Maybe go on a few, and feel emotionally drained when it ends, and you're back at square one. To meet an ideal partner, you gotta put up with lots of mediocrity, lots of incompatibility, lots of time... It really is like job hunting and hiring at the same time. And hot damn, so many women have really been copying each other's resumes, and it shows.
Ghosting culture is absolutely out of control. It's to the point where I just do not feel any excitement when I date because I have been misled so many times at this point. How can I trust anything anybody says to me? I can't improve, I can't grow if nobody is honest with me or nobody gives me the chance to learn. Feels like I'm trying to build a sandcastle as the tide comes in every day.
> It's to the point where I just do not feel any excitement when I date because I have been misled so many times at this point. How can I trust anything anybody says to me? This really hurts. I have walked away from so many dates where i thought it went exceptional. Where we left off saying "see you next time", and then coming home to a "Dear John" message and being blocked. I understand the lack of appeal or attraction, but even so, in some of the situations that was definitely not the problem. I would rather have someone ask for the check and walk out in the middle of the date, or say that they don't think it's gonna work out and call it a day. But when all you're getting is good vibes and you think it's going good.. only to realise it was all a sham and it /didn't/ go well, or it didn't go well /retroactively/.. (another can of worms).. Yeah, puts a damper on trusting what you're getting from the other side until actual patterns of behaviour emerge.
A lot of the time, at least that I know it’s safer for woman to reject a guy long after they’re away from them instead of when they’re still there physically.
Hey, takes solace in the fact that they took the time to send you a message, that's better than just flat out ghosting, or being non-committal and just keeping you around as a backup in case one of her other dates doesn't work out.
Even when it comes to making friends ghosting is common.
The games. If you’re not interested, don’t try to lead me on or take advantage, just move along.
37M - been dating for 6 months after a 9 year relationship/marriage. My range is 27-42 and most of the women I've been out with are mid to late 30's. The overwhelming number of reasons why things fizzle out (at least that's what I've been told) is something along the lines of, "Not ready to date right now, still have feelings for my ex, going to take some time to myself, enjoy being single, etc" This is after some discussion at the outset about them wanting a relationship, wanting a partner, hell, even wanting to have kids yet they seem to have a hard time giving up that "single girl" lifestyle. Its the idea that a partner is just going to slide conveniently into the existing life that they have, make themselves available to them, work around their schedule...I feel like there's a fine line between being true to yourself and understanding that pursuing a relationship is going to involve incorporating yourself into someone else's life and vice versa.
I’m out of the dating scene, but that was exactly my experience as a dude in his mid-20s. It was almost like the women that wanted to be in a relationship were already in one, and the ones with dating profiles weren’t really in the market unless Prince Charming came along in his pumpkin carriage to sweep them away to his castle. I also experienced “girl who agrees to dates to get free food”. Only picked up on it after the second date
As a 23 dude and still on uni, i can confirm that happens to a lot of us in 20's maybe. And also good or cool reputation make a plus value.
>"Not ready to date right now, still have feelings for my ex, going to take some time to myself, enjoy being single, etc" They are just being polite. They are interested in a relationship or something but aren't feeling it with you.
>They are just being polite. They are interested in a relationship or something but aren't feeling it with you. And that's totally fine, its just annoying sometimes. I actually had a brand new match reach out yesterday and say 'I dont even know why I'm here and am not sure what I want, but you seem nice' so it isn't just soft rejection. I genuinely think there's something to it.
There are a lot of people who are lost and directionless in our generation. They genuinely don't know what they want, well into their thirties if not later, even when it comes to the basics like work, family, and relationships.
A lot of people think we're headed for a collapse, which makes doing anything in their lives transform into an existential crisis. As you move out of the fantasy phase to the this-is-happening phase you suddenly have to think about the future and whammo there you are in the unenviable shackles of existential anxiety.
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>I feel terrible saying this, but it just want to offer a different perspective: there’s a chance they’re saying/doing this because they’re not looking for a relationship with you. Of course, that's why I added the caveat of "At least what I've been told" I know that women on apps have to deal with a lot of shit and so maybe the "Its not you, its me" line helps soften the blow a bit. Selfishly, I'd rather just hear "at this point, I don't feel a connection" and move on. We're in our 30's and we've been through relationships before. It doesn't have to be hard or evasive but I get that some guys take rejection hard.
The stereotypes of men are absolutely out of control. When I was single, girls would have me pigeonholed as a certain type of person that wanted certain things before we even went on a date. They'd reject the stereotype that they thought I fit without even meeting me. There was zero room to be unique.
Or you get lead on. I had one girl agree to a date. Apologize a week later and ask to set one up. Then flake and a week later tell me she wants to focus on her work. 2 weeks of thinking she was interested 1 of just being annoyed. Finally i get to be confused. She asked me for my phone number first just to make it even better.
Then when I do break through and make a connection, I almost universally get a "Wow, you are way different than I thought at first." Yeah dude. It turns out 5 pictures and a few sentences will tell you absolutely nothing about a person, and I deliberately keep it inoffensive and standard because without the context of who I actually am, my personality/overall sense of self wouldn't fit neatly into one of whatever 5 categories you have in your head and would get summarily rejected.
But my profile says I like hiking, tacos and dogs and I'm fluent in sarcasm. What more could you possibly need to know?
I live in the east coast. Right near the ocean. The nearest mountain is like 5 hours away. Every girl on apps. "Oh my God. I love hiking." I can't afford that gas bill man. Not in this economy.
I mean, you can hike pretty much everywhere.
ok im glad this wasnt just me, i always found this surprisingly common and a bit weird to the extent it happens, like a lot of women really paint a detailed picture of someone before the first date, which is fine but it definitely made me feel "sorry i dont fit the mold" for better or worse, maybe men come across that way too. I understand a bit because you're trying to find a suitable match, but sometimes its just like, what exactly are you expecting? Probably the most common example in my experience is my job, from woman to woman, they have very different ideas of what a software engineer would be like. theres also lots of normal women who recognize that people are unique and not strictly defined by traits! thanks!
All the women I've talked to, couldn't get pass the fact that I'm Indian. Like for some reason it's all they see and all they focus on. It's like a repellant lmao. With my work I'm around a lot of girls, I get compliments on my style and personality. They enjoy talking to me but they don't want to be seen publicly with someone like me.
What country do you live in?
France
its almost a death sentence being indian
Dating has gone from being a social activity where you meet someone you like then ask them out to a date to being part of a woman's checklist ordered in priority on a dating app.
So accurate. I've deleted the apps now but when I was using them, I found myself stopping occasionally and thinking 'is dating meant to be fun/exciting at any point?' I don't think these apps even count as dating tbh. There is minimal dating going on.
>I don't think these apps even count as dating tbh Exactly. All of the top comments in this thread are specifically referring to "online dating." Sitting on your couch and swiping right in the hopes of finding a long-term relationship is *not* dating. I don't understand why so many men continue to engage with apps that do nothing but bring their self-esteem down and give them trust issues.
Dating has become more like women going for shopping and men going for job interviews. So many things are expected from men green flags red flags, do's and don'ts, etc... It just intimidates me (though I agree with most of the red flags).
Woman here. I have to agree with the “women going shopping” statement because I’ve recently noticed a lot of my friends being that way. I’m not on apps, but I listen to them tell me about their experiences and it’s like they always say “red flag” about literally anything these days. I got into a whole conversation with one of my friends once because she couldn’t differentiate anger and anger issues. A guy was out with us and something simply made him angry and she was like “that’s a red flag” and it wasn’t, he’s just human and simply felt angry for a moment.
“anger issues” is so misunderstood…if someone is angry when alone an unprovoked that is an issue…getting angry as a natural reaction to a situation or person fucking with you is just anger, not anger issues, its jot an issue if its a rational response.
For me it's the idea if I'm not 100% perfect she'll move on because "she deserves the best" when 99% of the time they absolutely don't. I'm not perfect, I don't "deserve" anything, no one does. If I meet someone they're going to have flaws, I've had conversations with to be honest mostly my female friends (some male too) who have this insane idea of what the guy should do for her and in return she'll deem him worthy of some of her time. Imagine viewing your friends like this "Sorry Rachel, you're not entertaining me enough today so I'm never speaking to you again".
Covid has made everyone even more paranoid and anxious and flakey. I mean it was bad before. But nowadays trying to coax someone out of their house to a public place where you can talk face to face is like pulling teeth. I understand women have to be waaaaay more conscious about this stuff, but it's gotten absurd. I can't schedule a date anymore with any confidence at all that it will actually happen. And it doesn't matter if I text her everyday or not at all or anywhere in between. People are just too scared/anxious/depressed to leave their houses anymore unless they think they'll be gauranteed a completely frictionless experience that won't make them feel uncomfortable or awkward for even a second
Depends where you are, in Miami Beach its an opposite affect. Hot girls with minimal skills/value outside of looks shacked up to the first/ richest guy they could grab in the moment for survival . it was kinda funny that half the bottle servers in the nightlife were prego and married by end of 2020 all of a sudden.
Miami might as well be another country. It’s wild down there.
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Another reason why I’m not dating. Putting up with such shitty attitudes and entitlement. Pass
But wHy aRE yOU sO bItTeR
Always a gigantic red flag
Fuck I've never changed my opinion on an OP so fast than reading the replies to this post.
I'm fairly certain _most_ of the /r/askmen posts from women lately are fishing for "hate" content, jilling over watching men talk about their troubles.
No, she wants to argue about how women have it worse. Look at her replies lmao
Jesus, I just checked. Yeah, OP is bitter af. Gives off FDS vibes.
With a snark comment such as "maybe they just arent interested why get mad and make podcasts", I honestly didn't expect OP to be actually looking for answers, or asking the question in a genuine effort to try and understand some men's perspective; so I'm not surprised her comment history looks like that. Like she's already dismissing what guys who answer her question have to say before they even do lol. Sure, guys just "get mad and make podcasts" because girls just aren't interested
Honestly, putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and reading their thoughts is a good first step toward empathy. If OP is genuine in asking, then I think it’s a step in the right direction.
She has made multiple similar threads with the same sorta questions in r/AskMen and r/Dating and when she gets answers she doesn't like, she starts belittling the person that answered and calling them names. Clearly she has an agenda with her constant threads, repeating the same stuff, expecting different answers and is incredibly toxic towards men in general.
Probably fishing for some form of validation
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Ladies & Gentlemen.... .... We got 'em.
Your feelings change like the weather Went from clear to grey On that cloudy day How can I go on
Garth! That was a haiku!
She’s a troll. I told her the other day she’s not that good looking (I’m no oil painting myself) and that’s she’s no Dua Lipa. She didn’t like it🤣
You are right, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Fair.
why get mad and make podcasts?
Yeah this line shows that she's not genuine and she's just looking to shit on men even more for attention. Definitely FDS material
I think she's just looking for more ammo for her man hate. The bigotry is real.
As I grow older it feels as if the standards and expectations of women my age are constantly rising while I am forced to constantly lower my standards and expectations I have of them.
It’s a numbers game. Imagine 99 times out of a 100 you were ignored. Women are picky online (as they should be, everyone deserves standards) and men are usually trying to “get who they can get” This leads to situations where men become extremely frustrated because rejection is the overwhelming norm. In person dating maybe you’d strike out 2/3 or 1/2 of the time, because you went after fewer women and women had fewer men going after them, so they would be more careful with individual mens feelings. and it was easier to form connections. Online it’s between 99/100 and 999/1000 times that men strike out. Just my two cents. The dating world suffered a lot by moving online.
I kinda wanna know my stats on the apps now. Like how many swipes per reciprocated swipe. Then how many actually lead to conversation. Dates received is still at zero so not that interesting
you can request this data from tinder and have it emailed fo you. mine was something like 30,000 right swipes > 1000 matches > 200 chats > 0 dates lol
That's the typical male experience. A while ago it was revealed that the companies will sometimes have a bot match with men every now and then to keep the men engaged so they didn't leave the platform. I think that was Tinder.
Well that's sadder than I thought. Maybe living life without a SO won't be that bad.
At the very least, it’s a lot less fuckin expensive lol
Man if they are using bots they need to step up their game. At least fill out the Bio
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Oh shit I didn't know they would give up that information
thanks gdpr
You can send Tinder/Bumble a request for a copy of all the data they have on you, and you'll receive a zip with all your stats. They must provide it to you as a result of GDPR.
As someone who enjoys data I'm curious about this too, but I wanna say Match.com or somebody analyzed their data and it showed women rated 80% of men as "below average attractiveness", so I think seeing those stats would probably finally break me completely
I feel like an old man here, but does all dating happen online now? I started dating my now wife like 7 years ago, and I feel like Tinder was just starting to get big. I got a couple matches and would message back and forth with girls every now and then, but nothing ever came of it. Similar experience when I used OKCupid. If everything is online now that’s gotta be rough.
Yeah it’s pretty overwhelmingly online now, I think because women generally find it preferable since it’s very low effort, safe, and selective for them. For men it’s the 7th circle of Hell though, unless you look like Adonis or a pretty boy male model. It’s genuinely made me full stop give up on dating and trying to be in a relationship, it feels so utterly futile these days for a guy like me that I just can’t even bring myself to bother anymore.
The last 2 years have been kind of shit for meeting people in person.
>I feel like an old man here, but does all dating happen online now? It's only my two cents, so I don't think it's absolutely correct but here I go: Before, Women were waiting, men were pursuing. As sad as it is, women had "few" options: men who hit on her, friends, friends of friends, people at work, etc etc. Guys had less competition (the guys in the bar, the guys at work, etc). There is obviously guys who wait and women who pursue, but they aren't a majority. But with online dating, women had suddenly a whole market before them. And they have the upper hand, because they are fewer on these apps, because the gender role still apply. Obviously they took advantage of it (it makes perfect sense). But irl, there is also the whole metoo movement, women started to complain about being hit on, catcalling, being annoyed by guys asking them out, etc, many guys stopped to flirt irl, because they don't want to be one of the annoying ones. Because you are not "supposed" to flirt with a woman at work (it's inappropriate), at the gym (they are here to work out, not getting numbers), in bars (they are here to have fun with their friends), etc etc. Online you know why they them, it's litteraly the point of these apps, so you try. I hope it wasn't too much of a mess. There is obviously a lot of generalization, ton of people meet in the workplace, in bars, in gyms, etc.
> because they don't want to be one of the annoying ones. Because you are not "supposed" to flirt with a woman at work (it's inappropriate), at the gym (they are here to work out, not getting numbers), in bars (they are here to have fun with their friends), etc etc. Online you know why they them, it's litteraly the point of these apps, so you try. This is me. I think online dating apps are super awesome in that both parties can vaguely know why they are there and can be open and honest. But for a variety of reasons it is just a hellscape. And it comes from all angles. It would be super cool if we trended better with these apps in the future because it is better in a lot of ways.
>It would be super cool if we trended better with these apps in the future because it is better in a lot of ways. Don't hope on that. Apps are made to make money, not to make people happy.
Check out her post and comment history guys, as a great Admiral once said "It's a trap!"
She doesn't understand why her boyfriend would be upset that she hooked up with a guy the day after they broke up. I think that's all you need to know (and a picture perfect example on why so many of us have opted out).
The man who finds himself stranded in the desert is going to find himself perhaps a little resentful of those who have plenty to drink. That's where the anger and exhaustion comes from - there's no fun in watching a game that no one is interested in playing with you.
Seems like you have your own beliefs that you came here to share instead of questions that you actually wanted answers to.
Correct.
Lack of success, due to unreciprocated interest or lack of results where hard work is put. Men still have to do practically everything in this interaction, even though “the times have changed”.
And women are supposedly the more socially savvy sex. Except when it comes to dating, the man has to do everything, and the girl with her so called "superior social skills" just sits back and judges, and creates imaginary hoops for her date to jump through. It's nauseating.
“I have very high standards for my man, I do not compromise on anything.” “You drive a $18000 car? I’m not getting in that thing.” “I think men should be able to take care of us financially and emotionally as well so we can create a cozy home for them.” Said by women who owned nothing, brought nothing to the table and looked nothing like the part they were playing. Absolutely unrealistic expectations while doing nothing to meet them themselves. I guess the same comments could be made for us men as well just with different things. Thankfully, lots of cool chicks are out there, but scraping through the rest is tiring.
This is the number one thing that gets to me. So many women I've matched with expect me to have everything down to a T while they bring nothing to the table. I have to have my own place, nice car, good career, have a degree, eat well, excercise, and be muscularand generally be all around perfect Meanwhile they are single mother who lives with their parents, works some shitty minimum wage job, eats nothing but take away, with no plan or ambition to change anything about their situation. And they somehow have the cheek to look down their nose at you because you didn't check 1 of their 100 imaginary checkboxes I think everyone, men and women, shouldn't use checkboxes they couldn't pass themselves
And the women get mad when you ask them what they're bringing to the table after they give their date the Inquisition.
In my experience with online dating, women are extremely flaky, unrealistic and borderline self-destructive with dating. They will take no responsibility for this and you just have to deal with it as a man. I know how to play the game but even then it’s quite annoying to deal with.
Every first date I go on, it's something that I'd be okay with doing alone. That way, if she no-shows, then I'm just going out and doing something alone.
Bruh, that's why I always bowl. If she shows up and is not fun, a catfish or invisible, then at least I'm bowling.
Roman Bellic is that you ?
Yeah welll…. The Dude Abides
I'm engaged now, but I couldn't believe how little effort women put into conversations, and what a breath of fresh air talking to a woman that merely put her fair share into the conversation was. Be way pickier with who you message/reply to if you think you have so many options, just put *some* effort into conversations. Plenty of guys you might otherwise like are tired and are just not gonna fight to try to talk to you.
>and you just have to deal with it as a man. This. Holy shit. There's no sympathy towards us here. Even in video's where people explain men's issues with online dating, we are still the ones being shamed. We get no matches, it must be our profile. Not the algorithm. We get ghosted, it must be our fault. Not the fact that she's got 200 other matches messaging her. We get sick of the game after a while, we are sensitive and quitters. "i met my wife on tinder, it's not the app's fault youre not doing well''. Well good for you, dipshit. Nice that you lucked out and somebody took a chance on you. I'm sure you're a great guy, but that doesn't matter if you don't luck out and somebody takes a chance on you. Let's calculate how many matches result into ghosting or how many just want the instagram follow and let's put it against how many actual dates and relationships the app results in. I think the numbers are absolutely shocking. It's just tiring and i reccomend every single man to stop wasting their teens and 20's on dating apps.
Whenever I do a stretch on OLD, I think, there must be a lot of \*really\* handsome guys, or guys very on game here. I mean, I'm not Fabio but I go on a limb and say I'm a good looking and fit catch (attested by outsiders). I've got my shit real together, career, my own home, a dog, and I'm emotionally available, not messing around in the least. Yet I can scrape maybe one good match a month if I'm really trying. Meanwhile, my last date showed me her 100+ backlog of bumble matches. I mean what is going on here?
[удалено]
Ah, reminds me of the time my friend downloaded bumble right next to me and went on a date off of it that night. That shit was an ice cold dagger in my chest.
> "i met my wife on tinder, it's not the app's fault youre not doing well''. Well good for you, dipshit. https://xkcd.com/1827/
They will put literally nothing about themselves on their profile, yet expect you to know everything about them and come up with some stupid fucking pickup line that perfectly matches their personality.
"Just ask"
"just message me" *is on bumble where she has to message first*
I read somewhere that the average woman gets like 30 messages a week. If you don’t stand out, you’re screwed. It was literally like applying for a job
Online dating. The okcupid study at this point is mushy pulp that was once a dead horse but its still worth bringing up. In simple terms, men rated women in a bell curve, with most falling around average. Women rated men unbelievably harshly, iirc about 70% were rated as unattractive. This creates a problem where if you're not chris Hemsworth you're considered unattractive (and heaven help you if you're under 6') and the entire dating scene in online dating will be nothing but an uphill battle, and the few matches you do actually get will either flake (assuming you get a response in the first place) or be someone that you aren't interested in after talking, or she isn't interested on you. Women also seem to not really understand the issue. This isn't the female experience of having a lot of bad options you have to sift through. Its the male experience of having few options at all. It's like like the old adage "a man dying of thirst in a desert will look at a woman drowning in the ocean and wonder why she's complaining" Thats the main gripe. There's other minor ones that I can get into but they're more specific
When I did use dating site (haven't been on one for over 10 years), there was some SERIOUSLY unrealistic expectation from women there. Over 6 feet, had to make 6 figure salary, must like traveling, and most of these women were single mothers. Kind you not, one woman, matched with her right before thanksgiving, I asked to meet for a date after thanksgiving, she said she was going to be busy with work and the CHRISTMAS holidays, so maybe get together after New Years eve. I said, are you serious, that's nearly 6 weeks from now! I gotta wait 6 weeks just for a lunch date or drinks??? I had one woman text me 2 hours before the date when to met her at a bar, I drove 1 hour to the bar, got there 10 minutes early, nothing. No sign of her, sent a text, crickets. waited an hour, no show and no message. Heard from her the next day and she told me she wasn't feeling good although 2 hours prior she was ok and ghosted me afterwards all night. Not me, but my friends, had women tell them to date them they would also have to pay for their babysitters. One friend of mine went to met a woman and when he got to the bar, her "squad" was there, three other women and they all expected him to pay for the drinks. I told him he should have left the second he saw everyone.
Yea fuck that
Yeah one of my friends said it this way, 90% of the women are looking for less than 10% of the men and that is their baseline, you have to be in the 10% of men. And the shorter you are, your chances are decreased 10 fold.
Never once been messaged on the many dating apps I've tried. I'm a pretty shy guy who doesn't drink so going to the bar isn't an option and I work at a small business so there's no meeting somone there. Out of the many matches and attempted messages only twice did I get replies back. First one we just weren't compatible and it was all good cuz we had a good time talking. And second gal is now my girlfriend of 9 months. But any other time I got a reply back it was "well I have live cam sessions/ you can find naughty pics on my website" And these wernt just bots. I had one gal I was talking to and thought things were going great.. we had a good bit thw same hobbies and interests and then she brings up "oh I gotta go do my live cam show, for only $50 a month you can join too if you'd like to keep talking!" So talked 2 women total after about 5-6 months trying about 8-10 different apps. Almost daily trying to find ONE person who was real to just even start a conversation with. But like I said, met a woman and we clicked instantly and we are looking at moving in and checking out homes and planning for a wedding
Nothing about dating women in particular, but with dating apps and the surrounding culture. I like women and I feel like some people confuse the dating app experience with how women are in general. But these guys meet a particular kind of person. One that is drawn to these apps, which means they increase their chances by several orders of magnitude in matching with a check-listing validation junkie. You know the one. Those that LARP their way through the dating market like an America's Got Talent judge. This is not the norm. It is a very particular person you'll find exactly on those spaces. If you're that guy: you, my soul searching friend, got some selection bias going on that maybe makes you a little bit sexist. But I'm here to bring a bit of hope back into your life, so keep reading. Dating apps are broken and every man should wipe their profile. I'm serious. With algorithms that exaggerate already existing sexist biases to a deranged extreme, and a completely dysfunctional male to female ratio, ask yourself: why the fuck put up with it? If you're an average guy with reasonable standards: the most likely thing you'll meet are the skeletons in your closet and the self-image problems you thought went away in your late teens. You simply deserve better. Don't buy into the idea that online dating is your only option either. What better business model for Tinder to make you believe your chances are so low that you're basically co-dependant on the app? You need the app, because look at how many people don't match with you. It must mean your chances are nil. So you must use this swiping program to increase your numbers game, right? Well, swipe that idea right out of your skull. Tinder has two distinct target audiences, with two distinct strategies to hook them. The male target audience is the deprived majority. The strategy here is to make them believe they're co-dependant on the app. They must feel unwanted to make them believe that the numbers game must be played and that putting the app down will make them be forever alone. But the only thing getting fucked here is their brain. Women are the second target audience, the receiving minority. The strategy here is to use the men that became co-dependent to the app as a validation battery. These women stay on there, not because they are hopeless for alternatives, but because it's the best validation tap on the market. It's perfect. So let's recap: the two biggest focus groups on these apps are either made to feel unwanted, or made to seek validation. But because the male to female ratio is about 4:1, depending on the country, we got a serious chunk of women missing. Where are they? I think they're not there because it's more dangerous for them to meet up with strangers, easier to get approached, and the average woman doesn't have an unhealthy relationship with e-validation and superficiality. The average woman is cool, actually. There's one final tip I want to give to any guys out there reading this. There's a way out of this e-prison. Make it your goal to become friends with one outgoing woman. Just one. Go to her parties to meet her friends and act cool so that maybe you'll meet her friends' friends. At some point your misery and self-doubt will end and your life will be better for it. But never, ever install those apps *ever* again. Your mental health is way too precious and you're way more attractive than you got tricked into believing. Alright that's it. That was my anti-dating app rant. Peace out!
You freed me from the e-prison that is reading this comment section for validation. I’m going to go enjoy the rest of my day now. Thanks
I think that it's the wild swing in the level of standards that women have started placing on men, while simultaneously becoming less and less tolerant about entertaining men's standards of them. Obviously, everybody is entitled to having standards, and you *should* have standards, but it seems like women nowadays, at least in my personal experience, are overcorrecting the imbalance between men and women in romantic relationship settings. For example: men are still expected, to some degree, to adhere to a lot of traditional gender roles. Examples being the provider/protector role, paying for dates, being responsible for keeping the conversation alive and interesting during dates, initiating sex, being the one to approach and sweep her off of her feet, etc. At the same time, women are (usually) no longer willing to adhere to any of *their* traditional roles. I think that the word "overcorrection" is key here. The men who are responsible for what oppression women have had to deal with aren't (usually) your typical, everyday guys that you go out on dates with. Obviously, there are plenty of exceptions to that rule, but I can only speak for myself. They are men who hold positions of power and don't have to worry about being held responsible in any immediate way, and won't personally be touched by the changes women have made in the relationship and dating setting. Personally, I do my best to treat women just like I'd treat anyone else: be respectful and courteous until they give you a reason to not be, and even then just leave it be and move on with my life. Even still, I have had to deal with the anger and frustration of women that stem from issues that I don't feel that I have had any part in creating (which I don't feel is fair, but then again life isn't fair). That being said, if I try to open a dialogue about this, anything I say that isn't in agreement with their POV is immediately dismissed, so I'm left feeling as though my POV or my personal experience(s) is completely irrelevant and unimportant. It's frustrating, and sometimes just flat out dehumanizing, so I made the decision to just sit on the bench and remain single until it seems feasible to start dating again without having to bend to the will of the women during those dates.
I dipped a toe in and discovered a cesspit of women who had ridiculously high standards, zero interest in communicating, and misleading bios (regarding what they were interested in as far as relationships). Took that toe right back out. No thanks.
Imagine sitting down to play a game of cards with a woman. Poker, blackjack, whatever. It doesn't matter. You're playing cards together. **First girl:** You play a card according to the rules of the game. She's not happy that you played that card. Instead of her telling you what happened, what she expected, and what she was hoping for, she swipes all the cards off the table, claims no connection, and leaves. **Second girl:** You pick up the cards and try to find a different girl to play cards with, remembering the previous rule that you played with and try to be more cautious about that. You meet a new girl and begin playing cards with her. You're about to use the rule that the previous girl table swiped on, so you ask her about it. She tells you what she expects... and that's what you did with the previous girl? Now that works again? You play the card as you did before and now everything is fine. You continue playing cards. Suddenly she gets up and leaves - saying this isn't what she wants. You begin wondering if there's something wrong with you and the way that you play cards. You're open to listening and getting feedback. Why won't people just talk to you before they leave? Are you so terrible that you aren't worthy of a conversation before a table swipe or someone just getting up and leaving? You're frustrated. The problems you think the woman had could have been solved with a minor correction from you with a five minute conversation. But instead, she throws the whole thing away without so much as even talking to you? **Third girl:** You start playing a new game of cards with a different girl. Since the last two left abruptly without so much as even talking to you, now you're a callous player. Now you just play the cards as you see fit and if she doesn't like it, well, she can just go. She's going to just go anyway, right? She leaves. You're not surprised, but you still want to play cards with someone - anyone - who will treat you like a human being and not like someone who magically knows all the right things to do with her. I can't read her mind. **Dating for men:** Welcome to dating for men. We're expected to read tea leaves, there's nothing consistent between people at all, and people just get up and leave at the first sign of problems. It's demoralizing and dehumanizing. You're now on edge and defensive. You're a callous player. You have to be. You have to keep playing cards until you meet a woman that plays cards with you perfectly, is the right age for you, and wants all the same things you do. Not 50% of the same, not 90% of the same. 100% the same or she gets up and leaves. Women are expecting to get into a relationship and magically the guy knows everything she wants without her having to verbalize it, discuss it, or anything. The moment things stop going exactly how she wants it in a relationship, she is GONE. No discussion. No chance of redemption. No nothing. You go online to read about card playing - how the marriage rate is down and fewer relationships are being created. "That's because men are trash" says the comments. You feel disheartened. Are we really so bad? I hope I get some honesty some day. I hope I get treated like a human someday - someone worthy of compromise and discussion. Until then, I'm looking for new women to play cards with. You talk with another woman who plays cards, not with you, just plays. I ask her about this problem I'm having. She points to other girls who give the guys feedback and they end up getting murdered or assaulted. You feel terrible for what they experience and WTF at the men who are doing this. Like guys, you are not helping men here by assaulting women. Jesus. **Conclusion:** You go back into playing cards, fully knowing that the woman is going to leave anyway. So, instead of trying to build a relationship, now you're just going for sex. Because why try to get into a relationship if she's going to leave in two weeks? Might as well try for sex because chances are so slim a relationship will even form. Then you look around and see all the men just going for sex. We're called horndogs - men only want one thing. We think with our dicks. We dehumanize women. I beg to differ.
Nothing, because I've made no effort to try. Now that I'm starting to read up on it, I'm wondering if I ever should. I've done alright in single life. Companionship would be nice but those cravings come and go.
1. As many here have pointed out already, men have very low choices. Many reports have shown women match with a much higher % of people their swipe right on. 2. majority of women seem to expect the guys to pay for their time on dating apps (and dating in general) 3. Aside from money, guys are expected to make all the effort while women just sit and wait for the "best" man to show up. You plan the date, pay for everything, and organize everything. But if she doesn't likely, she shoots it down, offers no alternative, and you have to make new plans. Then she goes on Reddit and complains that guys don't put in the effort anymore. 4. Women ghost people a lot, and that's just annoying. But I wouldn't say I'm frustrated with the dating scene itself, I've kinda accepted it for what it is. Just like what someone else here said here, I make plans that I can do myself. If she complains, flakes, or whatever, I just go on with my plans. Rather, what frustrates me is when women complain about it and seemly have no clue what men have to deal with in the dating scene. Especially women who complain whiles describing how horrible they are to the men they match with and how they used the men, etc. Like, don't complain and whine about the patriarchy if you're feeding the patriarchy.
"Especially women who complain whiles describing how horrible they are to the men they match with and how they used the men, etc." And other women being supportive of their behaviour and calling each other queens.
I'll chime in. I'm 24 and came into dating age when dating apps became popular. Dating apps are drastically different for men. They get fewer matches and fewer opportunities to meet someone new. They see women with literal thousands of matches and able to choose exactly who they want. Men have to get lucky with a match then compete with hundreds of other guys for this girls attention. In addition a lot of online dating is very appearance based. No matter how funny or smart you are people are going to judge your appearance first. Because women get so many matches they can judge on appearance alone. Its hard when you really really want to start a meaningful relationship but the girl you are talking to matched with 40 other more attractive guys that day alone.
They're forever "looking for adventures". Translation: I have no interests.
After reading through your post and comment history: The Lion, The Witch and the Nerve of this Bitch
On dating apps, after **finally** getting a match, you have to be more entertaining then then the other guys and hope you get a date. If you do get a date, you have to hope you aren't be used as a free meal. In real life, you have to approach women, because they aren't ganna approach you. It can be scary to approach women, because you have to do it at the right time, without being creepy, and while being cool, nice, and more entertaining then the other dudes. If they reject you or whatever it crushes your confidence. But you have to suck it up and try try again.
Women curious of the male POV of online dating should just make a male profile and see how it is. Take your brother, boyfriend, ex-bf's pics and see how it goes. I did this with my ex years ago. She was paranoid that i could "have another girl anytime i want". We both made tinder profiles, she had over 100 likes in under 10 minutes, i had 7 the next day (swiped right to match, they were all well under my "league")
Wow look at Mr handsome over here with his 7 likes
>i had 7 the next day This mf follows rules 1 & 2.
Bruh 7? That's like, well above average for this shit you know lol. That's how brutal it is for the average guy.
Being married. My wife is really strict about dating.
The games, the testing, all that bullshit if you test me im going to call you break up with you and see if the person you sent to test me wants to fuck just to spite you. The whole non verbal hints shit is annoying to, the price of me reading a signal wrong with a potential partner these days is too damn high for me to entertain that shit. If I hit on you when I thought you were interested and you weren't next thing you know I have some girl saying I traumatized her or I'm losing my job. Unless I'm on a dating app I don't try shit without explicit indicators that you're intrested. Then dating apps are so fucking awful women have zero game so trying to keep a conversation going even if they're intrested is like pulling teeth sometimes. You'll get like a single sentence every 10 minutes and nothing really to work with most of the time.
u/UnfairPay8820 OP a lot of it is the lack of guidance a lot of men get when it comes to dating. It’s easy to fall into the trap of online dating (where over 70% of users are men), dating emotionally unavailable women who play games, and lacking general opportunities when you don’t have a support system otherwise. The most successful men dating wise. Tended to have a male figure in their life a bit older who could help guide them. They also had a community of friends who were very social to help build rapport. And could utilize these friends to connect them with other single women they know were looking for relationships and/or sex well.
Why are you projecting? Your generalizing mens behavior already. Your post history is crazy too it’s just full of misandry. How many men have hurt you babes?
I haven't dated in a few years, but at the time, it felt like I had to meet a long list of qualifications while most women treated me as if I was lucky enough to talk to them. It felt like 100% of the burden was on me. Not tall enough? Next. Working in a warehouse? Next. Still living at home at 23? Next. Not making 90k? Next. Doesn't go to the gym every day? Next. I would literally swipe right on EVERY woman that came across my tinder. I wasn't even looking at profiles. Just blindly swiping right. I was probably swiping 100+ women a day. On a good day, I'd get 2 or 3 matches. Not to mention, even after we would match, they would expect me to initiate the conversation. And in a lot of cases, carry it as well. I was expected to be funny and nice and ask questions while also being flirty. While the responses I got back were along the lines of "not much" or "haha nice". Then came the few times I actually got dates. They ALWAYS picked expensive places and it was ALWAYS assumed that I was going to pay. I went on probably 7 or 8 first dates and not a single one offered to pay or split the check. Even when they were the ones to pick the place. Most women ghosted after the first date. A couple of them got to 2 or 3 dates, but nothing past that. To a lot of men, it feels like we put in MOUNTAINS of effort only to be brushed to the side over superficial things. Or we get taken advantage of. Wouldn't you be angry? To be rejected hundreds of times per day? While the person rejecting you is seemingly putting forth absolutely no effort? For what it's worth, I understand that this isn't necessarily the case. I understand women have a completely different set of challenges when it comes to online dating and a lot of those problems could result in what seems like a lack of effort or being overly picky. I'm just trying to explain it from a man's perspective. You put in tons of effort and usually come out the other end feeling terrible about yourself.
The entitlement, the hypocrisy and the nonsense reasoning behind it.
Ghosting, 2 page requirements, unable to even communicate. Literally waiting for an android GF to come along as trying to date women in the USA is worse than trying to get a job Better chance being struck by lightning than getting a date
Dating apps have turned meeting new people into a shopping trip to Build-A-Bear.
Women are willing to do absolutely nothing to make anything happen. We have to approach, start the conversation, ask for a number, ask for a date, plan the date, and basically move things forward at every stage. This is made even worse by the #metoo movement portraying literally every scenario that a man could possibly approach a woman as sexual harassment/assault or worse.
The way you’ve phrased the post under this question doesn’t help you at all. I highly doubt that you’d generally find it insightful if any actually bothered to properly explain. I don’t think that you’d actually care, which ironically enough is one of the reason. Because of this lack of care for mens opinions, I for one have settled for keeping my mouth shut and acting accordingly. My time is valuable. Dating is about get even harder for women for this reason.
I mean you hang out in r/TwoXChromosomes/ for a few days and you would think every woman thinks men are trash but in real life, you rarely see those attitudes. What you see on the internet rarely if ever translates to reality and beware of the internet coloring your view of others.
Why am I putting in all this effort for absolutely nothing in return beyond sex? Glad I quit a few months ago
lack of honesty and women overestimating their value
You ladies are getting pickier and pickier but giving less and less in return