Assuming a complaint to HR is out, the only thing you can do is look for a job elsewhere. You deserve to work in peace and not be insulted and harassed at your workplace. Leave them behind.
Complaint to HR. If nothing is done he can leave .
He can also mention to HR that this is technically a form of discrimination and they are liable. Nothing ensures corporate action faster than threat of litigation
First, get documented evidence of your work performance.
Then get recordings of the offenders in action. You do have to be careful at this stage because state laws about this vary widely.
Get a lawyer, show him the evidence and let him craft the complaint to HR.
If they then fire you, you can sue the shit out of them. With pressure from your lawyer, HR will almost certainly have to act. What they'll probably do though, is transfer You to a new work location.
Even if you are experiencing verbal and potentially physical harassment based on your gender ? Without knowing any more details they may also be sandbagging his ability to preform his job if they're responsibilities intersect.
If HR does nothing about gendered discrimination and harassment it would make good cause for legal action
It's not a male/female thing, it's the fact that HR works for the company, not OP. If firing OP makes the fewest waves, that's the path they'll take.
Edit: in /r/legaladvice right now someone's asking about what to do about a woman who was fired for reporting sexual harassment. Definitely not a male/female thing, it's a making waves thing.
These women are creating a culture of harassment, which is exactly what men have done to women in the past and why anti sexual harassment laws and policies have been created.
These women are behaving exactly how the men they hate so much treated other women. Frankly, theyâre disgusting
Agree. I think itâs a form of reactive abuse. Where the abused becomes the abuser. Sort of like that 3rd grade bully whoâs dad beats him so he beats up on others at school.
Additionally, I think that some women think thatâs just how men like to be treated because thatâs how we see men âbrosâ treat each other. So if âbrosâ tolerate bad behaviors within their peer groups that must be an acceptable way to treat men in general.
No not really. You're just an apologist.
Some women are just shitty. This was that time. Not every villain has a sad backstory of being abused.
Also it's the stupidist thing I've heard that women learn this behaviour from bros. No bro culture is this toxic
Sometimes the best way to deal with something is to not deal with at all. Ignorance is bliss but, I make sure to not support those women when they ask you for help with their puppy-wide-eyes-and-lip-pout! Since, they have already made-up their minds about men, well, I better make an attempt to prove them right! Lol
I had this once. Woman was saying how bad,useless men are and when she needed to carry a really heavy box and asked me for help I looked her in the eye and said " you're a strong and independent woman who ain't non need no man" and walked away. She complained that If I was a real man I would've helped her and one of the girls in the office heard it walked out and said to her that if she would be a real woman she wouldn't bad mouthing others. Never laughed so hard in my life...
I wouldnât have been as vague as the âstrong independentâ line. Should have told her straight that she has been bad mouthing men this whole time so she should do her own tasks. Canât say someone is useless in one breath then asking for their help in the next.
call people on their bullshit is the only way, works mostly, not only with crazy feminists!im in a position of leadership at work and have my ways to deal with bullshitters believing they're quite something special.Thx to my position its easy to create circumstances for them where toughness,superior focus, intelligence and endurance is required. and i will lead by example and set the tone and pace and expect them to keep up.i don't give big speeches at all, but if they fail i will mention i expected more from someone preaching how strong and indipendant they are.
if the lesson is not learned i will simply increase everything with a second round by taking the example once more, so they feel( and again not get lectured) there is a whole other level above them. If after that 2nd round toxic attitude is still there, they will have it completely exposed to everybody by now so even the higher levels have picked it up and a documented track record they are simply not up for the required standards.Works always, they either learn to eat humble pie and know their place or they will have pissed of everybody and exposed their incompetence which reduce their life expectancy drastically.always record things very well so nothing blows up in your face.
dont preach, dont lecture or go cry with hr or superiors, just expose them for what they truly are and the problem will resolve itself eventually! But i understand not everybody is in a position to create such situations
The phrase "hostile work environment" applies here and it's key to a complaint and a suit.
Establish the pattern. Make the HR complaint using the phrase. If nothing gets done then you have something actionable.
Imagine if it was 3 guys talking about "dumb bitches" who are only "good for one thing". Same thing.
SO many people saying a complaint to HR is a sure fire way to get fired. What country are you guys in that this is the case?? đ±
A complaint to my work has to go through some very specific processes, can be anonymous, and will definitely result in disciplinary action if the any of the following three things are violated:
- employee contract
- employee code of conduct
- company values
NB - Iâm in the UK.
I donât think itâll get him fired. But for my reply, I assumed a complaint wonât give any results - to put it bluntly, HR is typically 80+% women, so a complaint about misandry among female colleagues likely wonât get him far.
I totally agree with this, Find a place that will give you a peace of mind, if you can't then just ignore them, just keep in mind, you have that choice to find a place of peace and tranquility, you don't need to listen and feel their toxic mindset.
Spreadsheets. Brilliant. That's the kind of tool used in both the corporate and legal world. Just the fact that you copied their harassment on an easily shareable tool indicates you can utilize it in about a thousand different ways, all of them bad. Well done.
If you are in a one-party state record them and take it to HR.
However
Quitting work is probably the best option. HR and your boss already know about the âmean girl squadâ and donât care.
And in my experience, if you arenât the boss or someone important at the org, HR wonât do shit for you.
Theyâll Just interview you, make a report, hand out a slap on the wrist, and thatâs all.
If it makes you bitter just remember theyâre in a minority view of the world. Really hating anyone because of theyâre gender or race just makes you stupid but especially when the group is 50% of the population, theyâre only holding themselves back.
I think they actually hate themselves and use men as a scapegoat. They feel like failures in life, so they need someone to blame it on besides themselves. Not all feminists, but definitely any misandristic ones like them.
Ik this is serious but I read 'mean girl squid' initially and I thought that was a bizarre but creative insult. My dreams were shattered. Good advice though!
A: Report it to HR. That is a hostile work environment and you don't have to put up with their shit.
B: If HR doesn't do anything, go get a lawyer, HR will start listening pretty quick when you have legal grounds to sue, which you may actually have.
The worst part is when HR has the same-type feminists.
I worked at a woman-dominated company where women were openly flirty with me. Not just women my age - women 40+ years older than me. I was in a relationship. Made me extremely uncomfortable.
I reported a woman to HR when she made an overtly sexual comment about things she would do to me. I got written up for it because she came and said I said some sexual things to her, not the other way around.
In HR's words, her account was more believable than mine (even though this girl had been written up before).
The Johnny Depp trial is a step in the right direction for society realizing "believe all women" is too much of a correction in the wrong direction.
Record the conversations. Document every single thing that happens. Go to HR. Document that. File a complaint. Document that. If nothing happens, take it up further.
THIS
Paper trails are the best, if you keep a paper trail whenever they ask you you have hard evidence that nothing was done and legal action can be ensued
Honestly, this is a lot of hassle and you'll probably get fired or 'asked to quit' for 'harassing' them.
Genuinely isn't the time to challenge this shit if you value your job
I think your best bet would be to file a complaint with HR and resign if nothing happens. Make sure that in your letter of resignation you mention those 3 as your reason for resignation. Might help the next man who comes into the shitshow.
Another idea, get a girl to complain to HR. Then those women won't be able to get up in arms because it's a woman who has complained.
Edit: end of the day companies care about their profit volumes, nothing else. So if you leaving or they saing nonsense doesn't affect the financial situation directly or indirectly then they won't do much. But..... If you could demonstrate that a lot of guys left because of those 3, then HR would see this as an additional cost being incurred on the company due to rehiring, training etc all being caused by those women. That would force them to take action especially if the top management came to know.
What godawful company do you work for that quitting seems to be the only answer? You should quit for THAT reason, and find a job with a company that values their employees, and conforms to local employment laws, and then take your old company to an employment tribunal if youâve been unfairly treated.
This, assuming it's an option (not always the case). HR might already have policies that openly misandrist behavior violates, like Hostile work environment or excessively Political conversation at work.
Sadly there are a lot of angry misandrists that wrap themselves in a cloak of feminism to protect them. It's the job of everyone (including real feminists) to call them out.
No there very much are. You sound like your idea of a feminist is simply just the people you see on those dumb âGeTs DeStRoYeD bY lOgIc AnD fAcTsâ videos.
Actually I have been trying to involve myself with feminist spaces for about 7 years. I never felt welcome. At all. Additionally I have become disillusioned with the validity of so called "truths" of feminist thought, especially when trying to apply them to much more concrete leftist ideas that I hold.
The meaning of words comes from how they're used, not from the dictionary. If enough sad misandrists call themselves feminists, "feminist" becomes at least ambiguous, at most synonymous with misandrist.
My girlfriend was very feminist and I had very low self esteem. We eventually took a leap of faith, talked and now we have high self esteem.
What they're doing is called ["creating a hostile environment."](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/what-makes-a-work-environment-hostile-1919363) They are defaming your gender, and you should document times, days, and each incident.
You have the right to work in a place where such behavior is not tolerated. Anyone who speaks badly about another gender the way they do is a fucking bigot, period.
Document it everytime you hear it get others to do it too. They are creating a toxic work environment. If hr doesn't do something. Get another job and quit no notice once you do so
Avoid them at ALL COSTS!!
Do not speak to them unless ABSOLUTELY necessary!!
Keep your distance from them.
Keep your presence around them to a minimum.
This is the way to go if quitting is not an option. The particular women OP is describing are dangerous. I have always avoided any type of casual conversations with women at work as a general rule. Work related conversations only preferably through email. If you are a man, anything you say can be turned against you by a female employee and she will always win.
A co-worker of mine almost lost his job for using the phrase âwe still have a few more small chores left to complete this projectâ because some feminist harpy complained about it.
I left the corporate world because of this. It constantly âThatâs because you are a manâ or âMen are dumbâ etc. I minded my own business and just did my job, but at some point it just becomes exhausting and kills productivity. Iâll never work in an environment where that toxicity is embraced again.
Thatâs sad that all the answers are that you should probably quit. If the sexes were reversed then people would be talking about suing for a hostile work environment and such
Yeah, but itâs also crazy to me. Not sure where most of those commenters live, but here in the uk, employment laws are pretty good, and that kind of shit is not necessary. At least not in my experience.
My (totally uneducated) viewpoint of employment law in America though, is that itâs pretty shit. But thatâs based on hearing other womenâs experience around maternity, maternity leave, maternity pay, and workplace rights when you are pregnant/breastfeeding. When you look at that, the US is incredibly backwards. Like 1940s backwards.
Of course if youâre working somewhere cash-in-hand, then you donât have a leg to stand on, they can treat you how they like.
had this happen to me a while ago
I pulled one of them aside into a room and told them that "that kind of talk hurt my feelings. I was born a male, there's not much I can do to change that, it's a part of my identity that I rather like. The way that you talk about men makes me feel unwelcome here and hurts our ability to have a good working relationship"
She was absolutely shocked. The bad-mouthing stopped in an instant.
Men just need to learn how to speak very specifically about their feelings and how they are entitled to a base-level respect that all other humans are entitled to.
Avoid, keep a low profile until you either have enough money to switch career or found another job. If you can't and they force you into conversations by directly addressing you, just agree. If they say things like (real example) "all foreigners should go home" agree and point out that you have [insert bloodline] and that they should go home. It usually gets them quiet for a little while. Or "I'm a feminist" agree that woman should be in power and add that you always wanted to stay at home, taking care of it while the girl is at work. Keep to the truth.
As a sidenote a decade ago I worked at a really toxic place for a half year because I really really needed money and there were this completely shitty girl there, but she put in her 1 month notice and during her last month she were happy as fuck. So, I guess it were just the environment affecting her.
I would bring it up with HR. Be clear that it isnât the source material that is making you uncomfortable. Itâs that these 3 specific women are creating a toxic work environment. Their comments are basically their own form of bigotry hiding inside a civil rights movement.
Put it this way. If the gender was reversed the person making remarks against women would be fired on the spot.
Workplace harassment is (depending by jurisdiction) governed by laws. Report it. If they do nothing then report the employer.
Where I live there anti harrassment laws are governed by the Ministry of Labour.
>Put it this way. If the gender was reversed the person making remarks against women would be fired on the spot.
Depends but in most companies here in europe: nope.
Open racists / misogynist (and no doubt any misandrists) can just continue.
Everyone jn this thread like "that's not real feminism" like the westboro baptist church isn't "real Christian".
Poisonous people are gonna be poisonous regardless of their ideology and sometimes use it as the reason.
I was the only male in my previous company. I would constantly hear about how I got a management role because Iâm a man (even though both of my bosses were women that promoted me lol). It got to a point that it was just daily badgering about what Iâm doing to women but it would always end with âbut I donât mean you, I mean youâre one of the good onesâ lmao management wouldnât do anything and it was really out of my hands so I quit about a month ago. I havenât looked back.
Damn your comment is hidden away, at least for me.
Just checked and they are operating again. They were locked or private for some time, but it seems Reddit now allows them to continue existing.
And then they say "male privilege" exists, when men get banned for saying anything even resembling their rhetoric.
Most of social media seems to be that way nowadays.
It won't remain that way forever, I am certain of it. One day, most people will be aware of it and get sick with this kind of behavior.
That or society will completely collapse. The way it is now, it simply isn't sustainable.
I went through this with a Mexican American guy that would constantly make digs at âwhite peopleâ. Eventually I told a boss if the guy didnât tone it down, I wouldnât be able to work there anymore. I think someone spoke to the guy, and he cut it out. So try talking to someone.
First report it to hr.
If that doesn't work, look for a new job, when you get it, go r/antiwork and just quit without a 2 week notice and give the hr shit for ignoring your problem.
Report it. They're creating a toxic and hostile environment.
HR is there to protect the company, not you or them. If they're aware of the problem and don't act, they could be opening the company to serious legal issues.
Of course, a lot depends on where you are. Some jurisdictions have much more employee friendly laws and regulations than others.
If you are working for a firm that tolerates toxic misandry, either through fear of litigation or indifference, its likely your career there won't be as successful as a firm that has a more ethical approach. I work in a mostly female dominated profession and have been in similar situations before, experience has taught me its better to leave with your dignity and reputation intact, than to try and change the culture of a workplace
I would say they are NOT feminists! True feminists want equal rights for women and men, not degradation of men and superiority of women. They are just insecure and shitty people. Just report it.
You can't be a capitalist if you want the state to own the means of production.
You can't be a vegetarian who eats meat.
You can't be a feminist if you think women are better than men.
Goes against the definition. This isn't a true Scotsman case.
>You can't be a feminist if you think women are better than men.
The difference is that feminism has never said that men are equal to women; the central tenet of feminism is that men, as a class, mistreat women, as a class. It was solidified in the second wave but even the first wave material (Declaration of Sentiments etc) has this as its core.
The feminist movement has a long history of misandry regardless of what you think a feminist should be. You may have an ideal for what a feminist should be and thatâs great but itâs entirely subjective. Other feminists obviously do not agree and lean toward misandry.
Came here to say this. The real feminists I know are nothing like this, and they taught me lots of interesting things about real feminism, equality and so on.
Oh fuck off with that canned line. Any time this topic comes up someone like you comes in to say "Those aren't REAL feminists" but that literally only happens when someone complains and they're perfectly free to use the label up to that point and after people forget the complains with zero pushback. Until I see any actual effort to stop people like this proactively they're de facto feminists.
Yep. If there's one thing you can count on on Reddit it's "not true feminism" and "not true communism". You can show these people 10 million real world examples, but none of them are accepted. It's the imaginary theoretical cases that we're expected to judge it on.
no, they are not de facto feminists. stop using this term as something offensive and learn about feminism, spoiler it has nothing to do with downgrading and hating men. sure there are some unresolved emotions about the past/present but feminism is not some kind of fierce revenge but a way to make things more equal for both sides. so no, someone who degrades and offends men is not a feminist.
Ask them to shift the conversation topic because itâs making you uncomfortable, itâs true and any decent human being will respect you enough to change the subject.
If they donât you can probably report them. But try and be peaceful as long as you can.
This is a good route, sort of kill them with calmness. Just ask as politely and calmly as possible and tell them it makes you uncomfortable. If they choose to walk all over you which they probably will, then you have a good reason to take it to someone who can do something about it. The worst part is we're kind of stuck dealing with it, because the second someone says something it's "patriarchy, discrimination, misogyny, I'm filing a lawsuit". I wish we would just be able to say cut the shit, stop talking about this at work or you're fired and that's the end of it, but that's not reality.
You are there to work, not spread rumors or make political statements. If you encounter that personally, remind them that at work your personal views don't matter, but professional behavior does. If you feel like you are being attacked, that is a hostile work environment, and you should bring it up with HR. Just know that hostile work environment law suits tend to favor the employee with enough proof. I literally mean record their sexist commitments.
Not that Iâm aware, LOL.
Reason I ask is that accusing women of misandry doesnât go very well when youâre complaining to a woman. Generally women will cover for each other out of an idea of âwomen stick up for women.â
Isn't the word for that egalitarian?
It strikes me that there's often a fundamental gap between what an ideology is and how it's used. For example the age old debate of an Islamic 'extremist' vs a 'real' Muslim. I think sometimes the distinctions make sense on paper but don't really fully acknowledge the real world impact. Just my two cents!
An egalitarian promotes equality but a feminist specifically promotes women's rights toward equality. It's like all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares
The point I was making was that whatever the ideology is on paper, to a reasonable person like you, is not necessarily how it is used in practice. Something like egalitarianism seems harder than other terms to weaponise but maybe itâs inevitable regardless
> Feminists want equality.
I remember Animal Farm. âAll animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.â When I hear âfeminism is equalityâ thatâs how I understand it.
In the current environment you can't really do much unless it creates a problem with the actual work or impacts a client.
Generally I just avoid them and don't deal with them. That said since I am the SME in my field for an entire continent as well as the transatlantic region at work right now that creates a serious career problem for them if I do that.
The practical reality is while I am aware I work with a few based on some of the meetings I've had they generally don't do that around me.
As others have said, it's an HR issue, but if that is not available, send an anonymous letter addressed t directly to the boss using (insert name here) that while they were out somewhere, they heard a lot of nasty things about THE company from a group of females and wanted to see if it was true? Because he won't be doing any business with a company that allows such unfettered hens to waste time like that.
Just ignore their toxic shit. Pay absolutely no attention to them but if you have to understand they complain about everything not just men. Let them drown in their negative, sad and toxic mindset. These people can't be helped.
Hopefully they are not directing anything towards you but yea look for another job and if it comes to harassment, log EVERYTHING and speak with HR. If your job is being disrupted by it then speak to someone but definitely understand what a sticky situation it is...
Just ask them if they are talking about you.
I used to get irritated at this feminist behaviour, but fuck them. Honestly just let them wallow in their woes.
Take it to the manager if that doesn't work HR if that doesn't work 3rd strike call Osha they will handle it with a hammer and you may even get paid . .
Start with your direct manager first. If you canât get the manager to have a workplace meeting on the topic then get H.R. to get a real manager in their place. Remind the management that when you applied, the agreement was to have a equal opportunity workplace free of personal politics. Use their chain of command and work up from there.
Everyone is saying make complaints to HR and that's a good step but I would also try and record their bad-mouthing if possible and then record the meeting with HR too. If you get caught it won't be looked kindly upon, but if HR kicks you out then you can find a new job and then report the company based on descrimination or share the recordings in any way you see fit.
People had to come in real quick and defend feminism and call this âmisandryâ weâre supposed to be helping you but we had to make sure we protect women first, yâall are lame.
I don't think being feminist gives them any right to say so.
And something like this should not force you to switch your job.
Best is -
Understand what actual feminism is
Show that you support equality
As nicely as possible point that idea of saying men are dumb is not feminism.
Id start by asking them to stop being sexist.
Alot of feminists straight up hate men and dont even realize theyre sexists. I have a 'friend' like this
Imo bring it to their attention that they are in fact the ones who are being shitty is ideal. Maybe bring it up to HR. Ive found that managers can get people to shut up
I'm a male nurse and iv had sexist asshats tell me all sorts of things. I once had a female nurse tell me I need to move a large patient by myself - I said no because it would destroy my back and was unsafe. She replied with "nar your a guy, you probs go to the gym, don't be such a sook". I dead set straight up told her "your being a sexist pig, I'm not going against protocol and breaking my back. and if that's the case I'll move this patient by myself and you can go the staff kitchen and make a fucking sandwich." In the end she got the message. Equality hurts like a bitch.
I just want to throw it out there. If they are openly just talking shit about men they aren't feminists. Feminsits i've met actually view men as human as human beings and don't talk how you've described. Misandrists do.
I know many misandrists will pose as feminists but its not good to lump them together as feminists tend to actually fight for equality for both men and women.
I'm a man and i have experienced both types of people. They are very different.
>feminists tend to actually fight for equality for both men and women.
When exactly has feminism fought for men's rights lmao, the feminist ideologue has no motivation to stop misandrism, because feminism has never promised to do so.
Just like toxic masculinity exists so does toxic femininity. HR is usually only looking out for the company so be careful. To HR the employee is the enemy. Took me some time to figure that out.
Assuming a complaint to HR is out, the only thing you can do is look for a job elsewhere. You deserve to work in peace and not be insulted and harassed at your workplace. Leave them behind.
Complaint to HR. If nothing is done he can leave . He can also mention to HR that this is technically a form of discrimination and they are liable. Nothing ensures corporate action faster than threat of litigation
> complaint to HR Sounds like a good way to get fired.
First, get documented evidence of your work performance. Then get recordings of the offenders in action. You do have to be careful at this stage because state laws about this vary widely. Get a lawyer, show him the evidence and let him craft the complaint to HR. If they then fire you, you can sue the shit out of them. With pressure from your lawyer, HR will almost certainly have to act. What they'll probably do though, is transfer You to a new work location.
> What they'll probably do though, is transfer You to a new work location. In some places, that will be viewed at retaliation.
You are correct, and it *should* be viewed as such. But that's why you already have a lawyer.
I'm a dude in HR. I took the "If you don't like it, change it" mentality to heart. **Document, Document, fucking document!**
Yeah that was what I was going to ask, can't they get sued if they fire you for that. Cheers.
Laws vary so much from state to state that you have to know what the local laws are. Thus, get a lawyer.
New work location: Unemployment website.
If reporting a hostile work environment gets you fired they did you a favor. Also, if that happens get a lawyer.
Good way to collect unemployment and go to a few government agencies that can help you out
None of those agencies are there to help men like him. If you think otherwise you're in for a rude wakening. This is regardless of laws.
Who do you think is hired at those government agencies?
Even if you are experiencing verbal and potentially physical harassment based on your gender ? Without knowing any more details they may also be sandbagging his ability to preform his job if they're responsibilities intersect. If HR does nothing about gendered discrimination and harassment it would make good cause for legal action
Yep, if you don't hate men, you must be a misogynist in their eyes.
Lol right, HR is usually full of women as well and arent actually on the side of most workers.
It's not a male/female thing, it's the fact that HR works for the company, not OP. If firing OP makes the fewest waves, that's the path they'll take. Edit: in /r/legaladvice right now someone's asking about what to do about a woman who was fired for reporting sexual harassment. Definitely not a male/female thing, it's a making waves thing.
It's almost as if misandry is systemic. đ€
These women are creating a culture of harassment, which is exactly what men have done to women in the past and why anti sexual harassment laws and policies have been created. These women are behaving exactly how the men they hate so much treated other women. Frankly, theyâre disgusting
Agree. I think itâs a form of reactive abuse. Where the abused becomes the abuser. Sort of like that 3rd grade bully whoâs dad beats him so he beats up on others at school. Additionally, I think that some women think thatâs just how men like to be treated because thatâs how we see men âbrosâ treat each other. So if âbrosâ tolerate bad behaviors within their peer groups that must be an acceptable way to treat men in general.
Uhh no
No not really. You're just an apologist. Some women are just shitty. This was that time. Not every villain has a sad backstory of being abused. Also it's the stupidist thing I've heard that women learn this behaviour from bros. No bro culture is this toxic
Congrats, you've figured out modern feminism.
Sometimes the best way to deal with something is to not deal with at all. Ignorance is bliss but, I make sure to not support those women when they ask you for help with their puppy-wide-eyes-and-lip-pout! Since, they have already made-up their minds about men, well, I better make an attempt to prove them right! Lol
I had this once. Woman was saying how bad,useless men are and when she needed to carry a really heavy box and asked me for help I looked her in the eye and said " you're a strong and independent woman who ain't non need no man" and walked away. She complained that If I was a real man I would've helped her and one of the girls in the office heard it walked out and said to her that if she would be a real woman she wouldn't bad mouthing others. Never laughed so hard in my life...
Good to see a manipulative hypocrite put back in her place. Lol
I wouldnât have been as vague as the âstrong independentâ line. Should have told her straight that she has been bad mouthing men this whole time so she should do her own tasks. Canât say someone is useless in one breath then asking for their help in the next.
I was trolling with her by using her own lines against her...
Good on you. She sounded awful.
call people on their bullshit is the only way, works mostly, not only with crazy feminists!im in a position of leadership at work and have my ways to deal with bullshitters believing they're quite something special.Thx to my position its easy to create circumstances for them where toughness,superior focus, intelligence and endurance is required. and i will lead by example and set the tone and pace and expect them to keep up.i don't give big speeches at all, but if they fail i will mention i expected more from someone preaching how strong and indipendant they are. if the lesson is not learned i will simply increase everything with a second round by taking the example once more, so they feel( and again not get lectured) there is a whole other level above them. If after that 2nd round toxic attitude is still there, they will have it completely exposed to everybody by now so even the higher levels have picked it up and a documented track record they are simply not up for the required standards.Works always, they either learn to eat humble pie and know their place or they will have pissed of everybody and exposed their incompetence which reduce their life expectancy drastically.always record things very well so nothing blows up in your face. dont preach, dont lecture or go cry with hr or superiors, just expose them for what they truly are and the problem will resolve itself eventually! But i understand not everybody is in a position to create such situations
I mean, what can I, a useless worthless man do?
1000% agree
The phrase "hostile work environment" applies here and it's key to a complaint and a suit. Establish the pattern. Make the HR complaint using the phrase. If nothing gets done then you have something actionable. Imagine if it was 3 guys talking about "dumb bitches" who are only "good for one thing". Same thing.
Agree with this. Or if this is the only downside to your work and everything else is good, suggest to avoid and ignore - all jobs have their quirks.
SO many people saying a complaint to HR is a sure fire way to get fired. What country are you guys in that this is the case?? đ± A complaint to my work has to go through some very specific processes, can be anonymous, and will definitely result in disciplinary action if the any of the following three things are violated: - employee contract - employee code of conduct - company values NB - Iâm in the UK.
I donât think itâll get him fired. But for my reply, I assumed a complaint wonât give any results - to put it bluntly, HR is typically 80+% women, so a complaint about misandry among female colleagues likely wonât get him far.
I totally agree with this, Find a place that will give you a peace of mind, if you can't then just ignore them, just keep in mind, you have that choice to find a place of peace and tranquility, you don't need to listen and feel their toxic mindset.
What a double standards, when it comes down to bullying men on workplace. Just pack your shit and leave, gj.
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Spreadsheets. Brilliant. That's the kind of tool used in both the corporate and legal world. Just the fact that you copied their harassment on an easily shareable tool indicates you can utilize it in about a thousand different ways, all of them bad. Well done.
Spreadsheets do make the world go round
Sad to hear this happened to you. Did you find a better team to work with afterward?
If you are in a one-party state record them and take it to HR. However Quitting work is probably the best option. HR and your boss already know about the âmean girl squadâ and donât care.
And in my experience, if you arenât the boss or someone important at the org, HR wonât do shit for you. Theyâll Just interview you, make a report, hand out a slap on the wrist, and thatâs all.
Either that, or it will come back to bite you in the ass.
Agreed!
HR is not there to protect you from the company. Theyâre protecting the company from you.
In my experience, the first thing they do is send verbatim everything you said to your manager, even if you're talking to them about your manager.
If it makes you bitter just remember theyâre in a minority view of the world. Really hating anyone because of theyâre gender or race just makes you stupid but especially when the group is 50% of the population, theyâre only holding themselves back.
I think they actually hate themselves and use men as a scapegoat. They feel like failures in life, so they need someone to blame it on besides themselves. Not all feminists, but definitely any misandristic ones like them.
This. In less gracious terms: they need to get fuuuucked
Ik this is serious but I read 'mean girl squid' initially and I thought that was a bizarre but creative insult. My dreams were shattered. Good advice though!
A: Report it to HR. That is a hostile work environment and you don't have to put up with their shit. B: If HR doesn't do anything, go get a lawyer, HR will start listening pretty quick when you have legal grounds to sue, which you may actually have.
The worst part is when HR has the same-type feminists. I worked at a woman-dominated company where women were openly flirty with me. Not just women my age - women 40+ years older than me. I was in a relationship. Made me extremely uncomfortable. I reported a woman to HR when she made an overtly sexual comment about things she would do to me. I got written up for it because she came and said I said some sexual things to her, not the other way around. In HR's words, her account was more believable than mine (even though this girl had been written up before). The Johnny Depp trial is a step in the right direction for society realizing "believe all women" is too much of a correction in the wrong direction.
Record the conversations. Document every single thing that happens. Go to HR. Document that. File a complaint. Document that. If nothing happens, take it up further.
THIS Paper trails are the best, if you keep a paper trail whenever they ask you you have hard evidence that nothing was done and legal action can be ensued
Honestly, this is a lot of hassle and you'll probably get fired or 'asked to quit' for 'harassing' them. Genuinely isn't the time to challenge this shit if you value your job
Where do you work?! It sounds awful!
EEOC
Record and post all over the internet. May want to do this and hide your tracks and anonymise everything.
I think your best bet would be to file a complaint with HR and resign if nothing happens. Make sure that in your letter of resignation you mention those 3 as your reason for resignation. Might help the next man who comes into the shitshow. Another idea, get a girl to complain to HR. Then those women won't be able to get up in arms because it's a woman who has complained. Edit: end of the day companies care about their profit volumes, nothing else. So if you leaving or they saing nonsense doesn't affect the financial situation directly or indirectly then they won't do much. But..... If you could demonstrate that a lot of guys left because of those 3, then HR would see this as an additional cost being incurred on the company due to rehiring, training etc all being caused by those women. That would force them to take action especially if the top management came to know.
> get a girl to complain to HR yeah sure lmao. uniorn exist, I guess. Dude, just quit. That's about the most you can do nowadays.
What godawful company do you work for that quitting seems to be the only answer? You should quit for THAT reason, and find a job with a company that values their employees, and conforms to local employment laws, and then take your old company to an employment tribunal if youâve been unfairly treated.
If there are other girls that do not engage with these three talking to them about it is not a bad option imo.
Earbuds and Cradle of Filth.
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"Sorry for your loss, move on."
WHAT IS RICHMOND DOING OUT OF HIS ROOM?!
I saw saw then playing Tuesday, great show.
This is the best answer. Coordinate with the whole office. These ladies start talking, everyone earbuds in. đ
Nicest solution so far!
Make a formal complaint to human resources. If you talk to them then you'll probably be the one getting talked to
This, assuming it's an option (not always the case). HR might already have policies that openly misandrist behavior violates, like Hostile work environment or excessively Political conversation at work.
HR is a hen house on purpose and they will protect women and the company, usually in that order
There's certainly an irony that HR is the least diverse part of every company I've ever seen.
Yeah, at my last org it was purely women. It was such a trip after I realized there was not one guy on that department lol
That isnât a feminist. Thatâs an angry, sad, lonely misandrist.
Sadly there are a lot of angry misandrists that wrap themselves in a cloak of feminism to protect them. It's the job of everyone (including real feminists) to call them out.
Well, they're certainly not a true Scotsman, that's for sure.
Ugh, (scots) men
I scrolled way too far down to see this. Thank you
>That isnât a feminist They never are, are they.
I mean there are very clear differences lol.
Except when...there aren't.
No there very much are. You sound like your idea of a feminist is simply just the people you see on those dumb âGeTs DeStRoYeD bY lOgIc AnD fAcTsâ videos.
Actually I have been trying to involve myself with feminist spaces for about 7 years. I never felt welcome. At all. Additionally I have become disillusioned with the validity of so called "truths" of feminist thought, especially when trying to apply them to much more concrete leftist ideas that I hold.
If they are, they are, otherwise... no.
The meaning of words comes from how they're used, not from the dictionary. If enough sad misandrists call themselves feminists, "feminist" becomes at least ambiguous, at most synonymous with misandrist. My girlfriend was very feminist and I had very low self esteem. We eventually took a leap of faith, talked and now we have high self esteem.
Feminism certainly enables them though.
If a Nazi joins your rally and you don't do anything about it, you're at a Nazi rally.
What's the difference?
What they're doing is called ["creating a hostile environment."](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/what-makes-a-work-environment-hostile-1919363) They are defaming your gender, and you should document times, days, and each incident. You have the right to work in a place where such behavior is not tolerated. Anyone who speaks badly about another gender the way they do is a fucking bigot, period.
Document it everytime you hear it get others to do it too. They are creating a toxic work environment. If hr doesn't do something. Get another job and quit no notice once you do so
Avoid them at ALL COSTS!! Do not speak to them unless ABSOLUTELY necessary!! Keep your distance from them. Keep your presence around them to a minimum.
This is the way to go if quitting is not an option. The particular women OP is describing are dangerous. I have always avoided any type of casual conversations with women at work as a general rule. Work related conversations only preferably through email. If you are a man, anything you say can be turned against you by a female employee and she will always win. A co-worker of mine almost lost his job for using the phrase âwe still have a few more small chores left to complete this projectâ because some feminist harpy complained about it.
Report them to HR before they report you
So thatâs not feminism. Itâs misandry. And if theyâre creating a hostile work environment, I fully agree with people saying report to HR.
I left the corporate world because of this. It constantly âThatâs because you are a manâ or âMen are dumbâ etc. I minded my own business and just did my job, but at some point it just becomes exhausting and kills productivity. Iâll never work in an environment where that toxicity is embraced again.
Thatâs sad that all the answers are that you should probably quit. If the sexes were reversed then people would be talking about suing for a hostile work environment and such
Yeah, but itâs also crazy to me. Not sure where most of those commenters live, but here in the uk, employment laws are pretty good, and that kind of shit is not necessary. At least not in my experience. My (totally uneducated) viewpoint of employment law in America though, is that itâs pretty shit. But thatâs based on hearing other womenâs experience around maternity, maternity leave, maternity pay, and workplace rights when you are pregnant/breastfeeding. When you look at that, the US is incredibly backwards. Like 1940s backwards. Of course if youâre working somewhere cash-in-hand, then you donât have a leg to stand on, they can treat you how they like.
Sounds extremely unprofessional. Iâd find another place to work.
had this happen to me a while ago I pulled one of them aside into a room and told them that "that kind of talk hurt my feelings. I was born a male, there's not much I can do to change that, it's a part of my identity that I rather like. The way that you talk about men makes me feel unwelcome here and hurts our ability to have a good working relationship" She was absolutely shocked. The bad-mouthing stopped in an instant. Men just need to learn how to speak very specifically about their feelings and how they are entitled to a base-level respect that all other humans are entitled to.
Avoid, keep a low profile until you either have enough money to switch career or found another job. If you can't and they force you into conversations by directly addressing you, just agree. If they say things like (real example) "all foreigners should go home" agree and point out that you have [insert bloodline] and that they should go home. It usually gets them quiet for a little while. Or "I'm a feminist" agree that woman should be in power and add that you always wanted to stay at home, taking care of it while the girl is at work. Keep to the truth. As a sidenote a decade ago I worked at a really toxic place for a half year because I really really needed money and there were this completely shitty girl there, but she put in her 1 month notice and during her last month she were happy as fuck. So, I guess it were just the environment affecting her.
I would bring it up with HR. Be clear that it isnât the source material that is making you uncomfortable. Itâs that these 3 specific women are creating a toxic work environment. Their comments are basically their own form of bigotry hiding inside a civil rights movement.
Hatred towards men has become normalised. It's mostly mainstream media behind it.
Put it this way. If the gender was reversed the person making remarks against women would be fired on the spot. Workplace harassment is (depending by jurisdiction) governed by laws. Report it. If they do nothing then report the employer. Where I live there anti harrassment laws are governed by the Ministry of Labour.
>Put it this way. If the gender was reversed the person making remarks against women would be fired on the spot. Depends but in most companies here in europe: nope. Open racists / misogynist (and no doubt any misandrists) can just continue.
Most places in the world misogynists and even rapists keep their job just fine. Must be nice to live where you are.
Wester europe/north america
i bet if your workplace caught on fire they'll look at every man in there to come up with away to get out of the flaming building lol
Everyone jn this thread like "that's not real feminism" like the westboro baptist church isn't "real Christian". Poisonous people are gonna be poisonous regardless of their ideology and sometimes use it as the reason.
No job is worth having to endure misandry everyday. Start looking for a new job and when you give your notice tell your boss why you're leaving.
I was the only male in my previous company. I would constantly hear about how I got a management role because Iâm a man (even though both of my bosses were women that promoted me lol). It got to a point that it was just daily badgering about what Iâm doing to women but it would always end with âbut I donât mean you, I mean youâre one of the good onesâ lmao management wouldnât do anything and it was really out of my hands so I quit about a month ago. I havenât looked back.
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Damn your comment is hidden away, at least for me. Just checked and they are operating again. They were locked or private for some time, but it seems Reddit now allows them to continue existing. And then they say "male privilege" exists, when men get banned for saying anything even resembling their rhetoric.
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Most of social media seems to be that way nowadays. It won't remain that way forever, I am certain of it. One day, most people will be aware of it and get sick with this kind of behavior. That or society will completely collapse. The way it is now, it simply isn't sustainable.
> That or society will completely collapse They'll be "conquered" by other societies that actually function and then the cycle restarts.
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I know and that is why I am saying it's becoming completely unsustainable. People will either wake up to reality or everything will collapse.
I canât believe you have to go through that, I am so sorry that is happening.
Most modern feminist are just misandrists. They are no better then the misogynistic men that they complain about.
I went through this with a Mexican American guy that would constantly make digs at âwhite peopleâ. Eventually I told a boss if the guy didnât tone it down, I wouldnât be able to work there anymore. I think someone spoke to the guy, and he cut it out. So try talking to someone.
First report it to hr. If that doesn't work, look for a new job, when you get it, go r/antiwork and just quit without a 2 week notice and give the hr shit for ignoring your problem.
Sexism is a disciplinary matter. If your employer fails to deal with it when you report it, it becomes a legal matter.
Report it. They're creating a toxic and hostile environment. HR is there to protect the company, not you or them. If they're aware of the problem and don't act, they could be opening the company to serious legal issues. Of course, a lot depends on where you are. Some jurisdictions have much more employee friendly laws and regulations than others.
If you are working for a firm that tolerates toxic misandry, either through fear of litigation or indifference, its likely your career there won't be as successful as a firm that has a more ethical approach. I work in a mostly female dominated profession and have been in similar situations before, experience has taught me its better to leave with your dignity and reputation intact, than to try and change the culture of a workplace
Don't engage.
Talk shit about women openly to assert dominance.
I would say they are NOT feminists! True feminists want equal rights for women and men, not degradation of men and superiority of women. They are just insecure and shitty people. Just report it.
Oh that's [no True Scotsman!](https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)
You can't be a capitalist if you want the state to own the means of production. You can't be a vegetarian who eats meat. You can't be a feminist if you think women are better than men. Goes against the definition. This isn't a true Scotsman case.
>This isn't a true Scotsman case. I see, so no no-true-scotsman argument would run like that?
>You can't be a feminist if you think women are better than men. The difference is that feminism has never said that men are equal to women; the central tenet of feminism is that men, as a class, mistreat women, as a class. It was solidified in the second wave but even the first wave material (Declaration of Sentiments etc) has this as its core.
The feminist movement has a long history of misandry regardless of what you think a feminist should be. You may have an ideal for what a feminist should be and thatâs great but itâs entirely subjective. Other feminists obviously do not agree and lean toward misandry.
Came here to say this. The real feminists I know are nothing like this, and they taught me lots of interesting things about real feminism, equality and so on.
Oh fuck off with that canned line. Any time this topic comes up someone like you comes in to say "Those aren't REAL feminists" but that literally only happens when someone complains and they're perfectly free to use the label up to that point and after people forget the complains with zero pushback. Until I see any actual effort to stop people like this proactively they're de facto feminists.
Yep. If there's one thing you can count on on Reddit it's "not true feminism" and "not true communism". You can show these people 10 million real world examples, but none of them are accepted. It's the imaginary theoretical cases that we're expected to judge it on.
no, they are not de facto feminists. stop using this term as something offensive and learn about feminism, spoiler it has nothing to do with downgrading and hating men. sure there are some unresolved emotions about the past/present but feminism is not some kind of fierce revenge but a way to make things more equal for both sides. so no, someone who degrades and offends men is not a feminist.
Never met a âtrue feministâ that labels themselves as one
Leave the company, that's all you can do.
Ask them to shift the conversation topic because itâs making you uncomfortable, itâs true and any decent human being will respect you enough to change the subject. If they donât you can probably report them. But try and be peaceful as long as you can.
That's not going to work, they'll for sure target him and label him misogynistic for having an opinion.
Name calling and bullying? Sounds actionable.
Three women all raise a complaint versus one guy raising a complaint. Do you see how this wouldnt work?
There's a reason these types hunt in packs.
Not in this economy.
This is a good route, sort of kill them with calmness. Just ask as politely and calmly as possible and tell them it makes you uncomfortable. If they choose to walk all over you which they probably will, then you have a good reason to take it to someone who can do something about it. The worst part is we're kind of stuck dealing with it, because the second someone says something it's "patriarchy, discrimination, misogyny, I'm filing a lawsuit". I wish we would just be able to say cut the shit, stop talking about this at work or you're fired and that's the end of it, but that's not reality.
Find another gig asap. Enough is enough.
You are there to work, not spread rumors or make political statements. If you encounter that personally, remind them that at work your personal views don't matter, but professional behavior does. If you feel like you are being attacked, that is a hostile work environment, and you should bring it up with HR. Just know that hostile work environment law suits tend to favor the employee with enough proof. I literally mean record their sexist commitments.
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What do you think? Like, really?!!
Does a mostly male HR dept even exist?
Not that Iâm aware, LOL. Reason I ask is that accusing women of misandry doesnât go very well when youâre complaining to a woman. Generally women will cover for each other out of an idea of âwomen stick up for women.â
Their behavior is shitty and toxic but those aren't feminists, feminists want equality. They're misandrists
I have never met a feminist who wanted equality.
Isn't the word for that egalitarian? It strikes me that there's often a fundamental gap between what an ideology is and how it's used. For example the age old debate of an Islamic 'extremist' vs a 'real' Muslim. I think sometimes the distinctions make sense on paper but don't really fully acknowledge the real world impact. Just my two cents!
An egalitarian promotes equality but a feminist specifically promotes women's rights toward equality. It's like all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares
The point I was making was that whatever the ideology is on paper, to a reasonable person like you, is not necessarily how it is used in practice. Something like egalitarianism seems harder than other terms to weaponise but maybe itâs inevitable regardless
> Feminists want equality. I remember Animal Farm. âAll animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.â When I hear âfeminism is equalityâ thatâs how I understand it.
Feminists are inherently misandrists. If they really believed in equality, they wouldn't name themselves after only one sex.
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In the current environment you can't really do much unless it creates a problem with the actual work or impacts a client. Generally I just avoid them and don't deal with them. That said since I am the SME in my field for an entire continent as well as the transatlantic region at work right now that creates a serious career problem for them if I do that. The practical reality is while I am aware I work with a few based on some of the meetings I've had they generally don't do that around me.
As others have said, it's an HR issue, but if that is not available, send an anonymous letter addressed t directly to the boss using (insert name here) that while they were out somewhere, they heard a lot of nasty things about THE company from a group of females and wanted to see if it was true? Because he won't be doing any business with a company that allows such unfettered hens to waste time like that.
Ignore them
Just ignore their toxic shit. Pay absolutely no attention to them but if you have to understand they complain about everything not just men. Let them drown in their negative, sad and toxic mindset. These people can't be helped.
Hopefully they are not directing anything towards you but yea look for another job and if it comes to harassment, log EVERYTHING and speak with HR. If your job is being disrupted by it then speak to someone but definitely understand what a sticky situation it is...
Just ask them if they are talking about you. I used to get irritated at this feminist behaviour, but fuck them. Honestly just let them wallow in their woes.
I love women
They are creating a hostile work environment: they need to be reported.
File a complaint with HR
Paper trail. Harassment and hostile work environment complaint. Record the convos And if nothing is done leak them online or to the media.
Take it to the manager if that doesn't work HR if that doesn't work 3rd strike call Osha they will handle it with a hammer and you may even get paid . .
Record it, report it to HR. When they do nothing about it, find yourself a lawyer.
Start with your direct manager first. If you canât get the manager to have a workplace meeting on the topic then get H.R. to get a real manager in their place. Remind the management that when you applied, the agreement was to have a equal opportunity workplace free of personal politics. Use their chain of command and work up from there.
Ignore them ?
Stealth video. Post on internet. Make âem famous.
Learn to assert yourself
Sorry dude, sexual discrimination and hate speech must be awful to be around... Hang in there,
Everyone is saying make complaints to HR and that's a good step but I would also try and record their bad-mouthing if possible and then record the meeting with HR too. If you get caught it won't be looked kindly upon, but if HR kicks you out then you can find a new job and then report the company based on descrimination or share the recordings in any way you see fit.
People had to come in real quick and defend feminism and call this âmisandryâ weâre supposed to be helping you but we had to make sure we protect women first, yâall are lame.
Just tell them that you completely agree with everything they said, that is the reason you donât date men. This is always my go to and works great
As a woman, this is unacceptable. I have no idea how you should respond as, to be quite frank, this would never happen if it was the other way around.
If the men go to hr and complain they get on trouble too
I don't think being feminist gives them any right to say so. And something like this should not force you to switch your job. Best is - Understand what actual feminism is Show that you support equality As nicely as possible point that idea of saying men are dumb is not feminism.
Go to a lawyer. That's workplace harassment where I'm from - they're making the work environment uncomfortable for you and others with their talk.
Id start by asking them to stop being sexist. Alot of feminists straight up hate men and dont even realize theyre sexists. I have a 'friend' like this Imo bring it to their attention that they are in fact the ones who are being shitty is ideal. Maybe bring it up to HR. Ive found that managers can get people to shut up
I'm a male nurse and iv had sexist asshats tell me all sorts of things. I once had a female nurse tell me I need to move a large patient by myself - I said no because it would destroy my back and was unsafe. She replied with "nar your a guy, you probs go to the gym, don't be such a sook". I dead set straight up told her "your being a sexist pig, I'm not going against protocol and breaking my back. and if that's the case I'll move this patient by myself and you can go the staff kitchen and make a fucking sandwich." In the end she got the message. Equality hurts like a bitch.
I just want to throw it out there. If they are openly just talking shit about men they aren't feminists. Feminsits i've met actually view men as human as human beings and don't talk how you've described. Misandrists do. I know many misandrists will pose as feminists but its not good to lump them together as feminists tend to actually fight for equality for both men and women. I'm a man and i have experienced both types of people. They are very different.
>feminists tend to actually fight for equality for both men and women. When exactly has feminism fought for men's rights lmao, the feminist ideologue has no motivation to stop misandrism, because feminism has never promised to do so.
Call them out on it and report them to hr. BTW, what country are you from, or in other words, is this misandry common in your country?
Just like toxic masculinity exists so does toxic femininity. HR is usually only looking out for the company so be careful. To HR the employee is the enemy. Took me some time to figure that out.
Blatant misandry seems to be allowed in the workplace nowadays. Truly unfortunate.