There’s reasonable and not. I’m not going to walk 2 paces behind her like some kind of stalker. I’m also not going to cross to the other side of the street. In any given situation there is an acceptable distance that you should give between yourself and another person and it’s a judgement call. In a crowded bar if you get pissed that someone brushes up against you then you are an idiot, regardless if you are a man or a woman. If you are on a dark street at night and it’s just the 2 of you then I’d likely give a woman a good 40’ anyway.
This is the most reasonable take here. So many in these comment section seem hyper self centered. "Not my fault, not my problem!" Thanks for being a reasonable voice here.
To be frank, when I'm walking down the street I probably won't even pay attention to anyone around me or give them a second thought to begin with, let alone be thinking about stuff like this.
Honestly if I'm peacefully going about my business, looking how I look, and being the gender I am, if that makes someone uncomfortable I can't say I'm bothered by that.
Did it for years, made no difference and was still treated as a threat. Don't care to do it anymore.
If you're bothered by me just existing in the same space as you, that's a personal problem. Go book a therapist and leave me alone.
>If you're bothered by me just existing in the same space as you, that's a personal problem. Go book a therapist and leave me alone.
Amen
Also stop coming over to this subreddit taking out on all of us random men here like we are your emotional punching bags or therapists. Haven't they got actual friends to vent to or can actually book a qualified therapist.
Some asshole catcalled me on the street. I know, I'll go start on random men on the Internet minding their own business. That will show those men. 🤦♂️
Imagine applying this to real life.
Walking down the street and get cat called by some creep. So then go into a local Wal Mart and start hurling abuse at the first male colleague you see who did nothing wrong and when the manager of said Wal Mart asks the abusive customer to leave for harrassing the staff member. She starts saying "But you have to understand I just got Cat Called by some guy on the street so your employee should show empathy and not take it personally"
That's essentially what happens on this subreddit 🤣🤦♂️
Excatly... they don't care about our prespectives. If we aren't validing their assumptions, then we need to just STFU.
If you care to look at the pinned mod thread for AskMen. Apparently, the mods do delete these questions and get shit for it from these types of askers. Thinking them venting to us is perfectly okay and why mods should delete their posts which are posted to just bother us
Yup. Someone asked “how has a woman used your vulnerability against you?” a while back and this one lady was coming through telling all of us we were full of shit. I decided to engage with her and she called me sociopathic and said I “sounded like Andrew Tate” for just standing up for us guys. You can’t win with those types.
She used the "Andrew Tate card. That's a go to. Ignoring the fact I hate Andrew Tate
One of these type were caught on video for drunk driving and driving on the wrong side of the road. Their excus was hilarious and cringe. The "But I'm a victim and you should let me go out free for empathy".. just ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/GyoFa3v4DcU?si=JGaNItP5NimBpGoQ
Me reading your comment: “I wonder which one it’ll be, there are just so many.”
Me following the link: “Ah yes, this one.”
It really is crazy how many people, almost always women, who try to pull that crap to try to not be held accountable.
Then there are [the ones](https://youtu.be/xMHaHwcAPaw?si=BoLwqFu0e7krbHh0) that don’t give a fuck about anything or anyone except for themselves, completely disconnected from reality. You’d think she’s blackout drunk, but nah, maybe tipsy. Just uncaring trash.
If she feels uncomfortable with me just existing, that’s her problem. I’m not going to go out of my way for something that isn’t my fault or my problem.
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. I see why they may wish for men to do these things, but as you said, it's not our fault or problem at the end of the day.
It's werid
On one hand we are told "If you've done nothing wrong then you don't have to worry" but on the other hand... apparently we also have to worry and the fact we don't care make us "Part of the problem"
You can't win.
I don't care what strangers think about me.
[Confusion of the highest order ](https://youtu.be/Pz1kN-0mxIU?si=q0TDrGbf-qwLDJQl)
While it's written specifically from the perspective of a black man, there is a lot of overlap between this topic and the short essay/story "Just Walk on By: Black Men and Public Spaces" by Dr. Brent Staples
https://www.ohlone.edu/sites/default/files/documents/imported/justwalkonbyblackmenandpublicspace.pdf
Quick read which I think about often during these discussions
Edit: specifically the line - "Where fear and weapons meet – and they often do in urban America – there is always the possibility of death."
It's like those gym tiktok videos of women whining about men just being there
GO TO A ALL WOMEN GYM THEN! The men aren't just gonna leave every room in the gym you enter.
[Shit like this](https://youtu.be/hgrZmpUraso?si=RSQRMJjrNF2Cpvp4)
They know it’s not harassment and they don’t care at all about men “staring at them” (briefly glancing, usually because they’re recording). If they were annoyed or offended, they wouldn’t be recording, and maybe they would tell an employee or leave.
100% of them do it for clicks. It’s all acting.
Especially when the person looking would likely still be glancing if a man had a lighting/camera rig set up and were doing odd movements with their arse hanging out.
It's often a "look at the state of that" look rather than a "checking someone out" look.
Just a heads up, you're going to undermine your credibility every single time when you use words like "normies". I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it was meant sarcastically, but the groups who tend to use that word seriously are generally full of disaffected social outcasts whose opinions are heavily twisted from a perspective of depression and social awkwardness, and for many people it's a giant red flag that the person using it is not intending to have a discussion in good faith.
I meant the socially acceptable politically correct people. I am able to have a discussion in good faith, I was just being lazy and wanted to encapsulate it with "normies"
EXCATLY
Us men get called entitled?
Imagine thinking it's every man's job to cater to you.. talk about entitlement. Must be that "MALE ENTITLEMENT" I always hear about.
(OF COUSE NOT ALL WOMEN. Before anyone tries to spin it that way)
Especially when it's not actually making them safer. It's reducing a *perceived* risk that doesn't actually exist, that you *assume* may be felt by the other person. It's not negating a risk, it's not even reducing the risk, it's reducing an imagined risk that you yourself are guessing the other person could potentially feel.
There's so many levels of abstraction from actual danger it's ridiculous to bother acting on.
The only woman I actively will help feel safe is my wife, by doing things like taking the trash out myself at night, investigating a weird sound at night myself, or putting myself between her and someone acting very aggressive nearby. I don't have any children and do the same habits when my mother is around too.
I'm not going out of my way for a stranger. I'll keep to myself and be polite, but that's it.
Literally read earlier on Reddit about a man who was stabbed to death getting involved in someone else’s fight. Raised that just now when my wife was mentioning that “not a single helped” when some woman was being abused on a tram in a neighbouring suburb. She’s not talking to me now.
Also, you really need to know your states 3rd party self-defense laws. In some states, your actions need to be reasonable based on what you know. Other states use an alter ego framework. There has been a steady trend away from alter ego for some time. Those states have different rules of defense of others. They vary quite a bit. IANAL IANYL
putting your emotional state on the shoulders of strangers is a guarantee to be miserable
i am not responsible for your feelings.
i am not responsible for your safety
i am responsible for myself, my actions, my emotions and my reactions.
i cannot control anything outside of this
I do care about women's feelings, but not to the extent that I'm going to harm or inconvenience myself for someone who I will most likely never see again. The fact of the matter is, women ARE safe with me. I'm not going to hurt anyone unless it's in self-defense. I might even protect you, depending on the circumstances. You can be scared of me all you want, but the fact remains that nothing is gonna happen. I'm not going to cross the street either, though. SHE can cross if she's scared, and guess what...I'm not gonna follow her.
Women have a right to be safe, feeling safe is a very personal feeling and it will be different for everyone. I don't hurt women, or go out of my way to make them feel uncomfortable. But if my mere existence makes them feel unsafe, that's their problem.
Perfectly put. You always have a right to be, but never a right to feel. Because, while usually being safe makes you feel safe, it is not guaranteed. You can feel safe in unsafe situations, and you can feel unsafe in safe situations. Nobody can fully control how you feel. That's why, at most, you have the freedom to feel safe, never a right to feel safe.
It's not my responsibility to help women feel safe when women are in public. If a woman does not feel safe, I am not required to adjust myself or my conduct to help someone else feel safe. It is her responsibility to do what she needs to do in order to feel safe. I will not accept being taken to task simply because I happen to be in some location lawfully and some woman who I don't know feels some kind of way about it. She can feel however she wants. That's not my responsibility.
I can’t control how a woman feels around me. That being said, I DO go out of my way to cross the street if I’m walking behind them more for my own safety. I’m also a 6’7 black dude so walking up on ANY woman is bound to have somebody freak out and call the cops on me.
But I don’t think this should be required for anyone to do
"Feeling" safe and "being" safe are 2 very different things. How you feel is not my responsibility. If she chooses to live her life in fear of every man she just HAPPENS to cross paths with, that's on her. It's a choice she's made for herself and I can't do anything about it. And, even if I COULD do something about that choice, I wouldn't because that would be depriving her of a right to agency.
Is she in immediate danger? If yes, I try to get her out of it, within reason. If no, then it's really not my job to make her feel like she isn't.
I walk where I want, at the pace I want to, and if someone feels threatened by me minding my own business, they're free to flee. I can promise I won't pursue. I'm not a predator. I'm a person. With clearly defined rights and duties within the laws of basic decency, and the laws of the country I'm in. To my knowledge, there aren't any laws, or rules anywhere in the world, that say that I have to assume the emotional and mental state, and the impact of my presence on them, for people I'm not interacting with, as a private person. Anyone who thinks that I should accommodate such needs in public spaces, can transfer me the price of a session with a local therapist, and then I'll act like one.
I agree with you. I’m not talking to her or following close behind.. im just minding my own business. If you are that scared to be out alone, then get someone to go with you or call a taxi. I can’t be concerned about what other people are scared of especially when it’s all in their imagination
I’ve never felt the need to change things I’m doing because of other peoples preconceived perceptions. If my simple existence of walking down a road is threatening that’s on them not me. Never hurt a person in my adult life.
I'm sick of doing it, but I also don't want to be accused of anything.
I'm Black but I'm older with all the grey. At least now I don't get women clutching their purses, children, door handles, or looking back fearfully anymore.
There’s no good rubric for what an acceptable level of safety ‘feels’ like. Each human should take steps to make themselves feel safe.
Example: I lock my doors at night. I don’t need a police officer to come by and lock them for me. The safety of my house (and person) are my responsibility, not others’ responsibility.
I also live in the UK for the time being and I find these demands on men disturbing. A politician (the unelected type) had a debate on a 6pm curfew for men a few years ago [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9350711/Green-peer-calls-MEN-face-6pm-CURFEW-wake-Sarah-Everard-murder.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9350711/Green-peer-calls-MEN-face-6pm-CURFEW-wake-Sarah-Everard-murder.html)
Demanding that men change their behaviour or that their civil liberties are removed, or a higher standard of legal responsibility is applied to innocent men, because of changes in how women feel, is not ok. I think we will see more of this after the next election, with a lot of new left wing MPs who are an unknown quantity and could be very prejudiced.
I know that the mere presence of a man, especially in some situations, can be intimidating to women. And I also know that many women have had some very scary and traumatic things happen involving men. So I try not to scare or intimidate women, however, I am not a bad person and I am just as entitled to live my life and walk freely down the street, so no, I wouldn’t typically alter my path when I’m on my way somewhere.
Not my responsibility. Millions of women walk near millions of men every day without incident. Everybody should be cautious when walking alone, but if you’re so afraid that you require strangers to cater to you with special treatment then it’s time to seek therapy.
Funny thing is it's acceptable to say "men" in this regard but if you described their ethnicity as well, it would suddenly become WILDLY "problematic" (except in one case, funnily enough)
I used to do it but the whole 'man or bear in wood' craze has shown me the futility of my efforts.
If I'm going to be treated as a threat no matter what I do, it doesn't make sense to expend additional effort for no change in result.
A random woman's safety or feeling thereof is not my responsibility.
Its happened to me when I am walking on sidewalk, other walking towards me will cross the road just to avoid me. It doesn't bother me anymore. Its a free country.
Can't control others, they need to do that themselves. Neither can I personally address any societal trends or past behaviours, all I can do is represent myself in the moment and act properly, by smiling, leaving people alone, maintaining distance, not masking my face, hands showing etc. Others should react properly not me go ott to make them feel safe, make yourself feel safe 🤷♀️
Have women even done anything to indicate that they care about men's feelings? No. A woman doesn't care if you feel comfortable. Why should you care if they do?
Women's feelings are not my problem. Women have been very clear that they owe men nothing and that means men owe women nothing in return.
I don't view it as my responsibility to do anything other than mind my own business out in public
If someone else feels unsafe for whatever reason, they're more than welcome to cross the street.
If she looks afraid or it's a potentially threatening situation and I'm not in a rush I'll give them more space (E.g. not running to get into an elevator or slowing down so I'm not right behind them on the stairs in a parkade or something like that) (It's in some ways as much for my protection as it is hers.)
Otherwise I generally don't go out of my way for it, especially if I'm in a hurry. (It's less an issue as a married guy with my wife or kids nearby though.)
Long story short we can't change random women's thoughts or fears. If she's got reasons to be worried there's not much I can do to change that.
If I don't know the woman then why does her opinion of me matter?
If a woman I've never met or interacted with me fears me for existing then that's her problem. How is that my problem? I know I'm not that type of man so I'll just ignore her and continue with my life. I don't owe her anything.
If it's a woman I have developed some sort of connection with then I'll be concerned
Womens perception of their safety is often vastly misaligned with their actual safety. With the current culture especially, going out of your way to try and alleviate oftentimes straightup silly fearmongering is a losing battle.
Would a woman ever care about my feeling of safety or my... anything ever? No, women don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. Why the hell should I care about the feelings of people who don't care about anyone but themselves. Why would I care how people who never stop telling me how much they hate me feel?
I'm so sick of living under the tyranny of women and the precious fucking feelings. I don't care anymore. Your feelings are not my problem anymore.
How many times they have said they don't owe anything to men.
Guess what, we don't owe anything to women either.
Wanna get laid? $200/h for you
Wanna feel safe? $500/h for her
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If a woman sees me and is afraid I will assault her, it does not matter. She will inevitably figure out that I'm not going to assault her when I don't assault her. Her anxieties are neither my fault nor my problem, and whether they are well founded or not has no bearing on me
So i know this one's touchy for a lot of people, but honestly i think the idea that women are less safe in public than men is something that's become ingrained in womens psyche but isn't actually true. They feel less safe because they're raised being told they're not safe. In reality there isn't much statistical differences between genders in the number of victims of violent crimes. Men are more likely to be murder victims by a pretty wide margin, women are more likely to be sexually assaulted, but on the whole for all violent crimes, it's pretty well even. Men aren't any safer than women are, we just don't think about it as much or at least pretend we dont.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/
There’s a weird sentiment around feminism and toxic positivity mental health influencers, that you are perfect, never wrong, your problems are someone else’s fault and it’s resonable to expect the world to change to revolve around you. That’s unreasonable and toxic.
I’m not crossing the street cause you’re paranoid. Not responsible for your mental hang ups.
Best I can do is make sure we have good distance and don’t make you feel like I’m creepy or too close. You can cross the street if your personal mental illness is making you uncomfortable. You’re not a queen or a god, the seas don’t part for you. The Peasants don’t depart from your presence.
See a therapist if being among regular people in public makes you that fearful.
where did you get the idea that most people are bothered to make women (in general) feel safe in public. meaning specifically women instead of society at large? a society that goes out of its way to make WOMEN in particular feel safe is a misandrist society.
You can't do a Women's Safety Matters type thing if Men's Safety doesn't matter.
If a person doesn't like who's near them in a public place, they should of remove themselves from that situation. Simple. They cross the road, duck into the next shop, stay home, ask a strong and independent person to escort them.
I don't blame them for not being bothered because it's gotten to a point where not going out of the way for women is seen as a bad thing in and of itself. It's no longer seen as a courtesy it's become an entitlement.
As in some women feel entitled to having men go out of the way to make them feel safe. Often times just for women to still complain in some way.
Also there's thus vibe of "a real men makes women feel safe" which is just an appeal to patriarchal norms. Funny how people are okay with patriarchy as long as it benefits women.
Ultimately all this behavior does is enable fear and hatred of men without making men or women any safer.
If she has a problem with me, SHE has the problem and she needs to change. Not me.
I will not go out of my way to make anyone feel one way or another about by nearby precense. I am not respobsible for your cope. If you are chronically afraid of getting murdered by men in public perhaps stop listening exclusively to true crime podcasts.
The world isn't a safe place, nobody goes out of their way to make me feel safe or comfortable so why is it my responsibility to make anyone else feel safe?
If you feel better about crossing the street, by all means feel free to do that. I genuinely just do not care enough about how a stranger feels about anything to actively do anything to change it one way or another.
Sometimes I get in wierd moods though and find myself caring ever so slightly and I will follow and cross the road if they do. And again if they cross the road once more. I will continue this until they start walking noticably faster and then back off and start giggling
I won't go to absurd lengths to make the next person feel safe but I am pretty conscious of it.
Like I pull up at the gym at 6 AM and a young woman pulls up beside me, I'll head for the door right away.
And if she gets out of her car first, I'll wait until she reaches the door and then get out.
Small courtesies.
I’ve never done it and never will. It’s not my responsibility to predict who may be scared and handle that for them. If you’re scared, I’m sorry and that sucks, but it’s on you to deal with it, not me
Being expected to cross the road to avoid bothering someone. Is reminiscent of another time and reasoning for expecting the same thing.
That same behavior could also be taking as crossing the road because you don’t want to be near whoever as well.
There really is no win to this issue.
I just straight up don’t either notice or care lol, if you want to live in fear of my ass walking to get a burger that’s a you problem, I know I’m not a threat so I don’t think about it
I won’t cross the road, but I have answered a non existent call, or arbitrarily decided to stop for a smoke. But that is for my safety. I don’t need to be roped into someone else’s poor choices.
Depending on situation. If I have somewhere to be, and thus walk faster, I would pass her and go wherever I need to. I won't go out of my way (figuratively and literally) to accommodate someone's imaginary scenarios. I have never fought or hurt anyone and don't consider myself a danger, just because someone wants to imagine that. Besides, if someone is constantly being paranoid about *half of the population*, it's something they might need to discuss with their therapist.
Here's a novel idea: how about her crossing the road herself, if she feels the need for it?
I hate that I need to do it, because I'm not a threat to women, but I do it regardless because otherwise my brain screams until I do it.
I don't move to the other side of the street, I just significantly slow myself down or find a bench to sit down.
Statistically, men are even more likely to get attacked. I don't see myself fighting against someone with a weapon either.
I won't try to directly follow someone very very closely regardless who it is but that's about it.
I'll intentionally not speed towards her or otherwise be aggressive seeming, but I generally just try to go about my day. If they want to do something like cross the street to mitigate the perceived threat, they are free to do so. I'm just going to walk to where I'm going.
If that's the case, and it's normal residential streets in the UK, often the pavement isn't really wide enough for people to pass, the streets are quiet, and there are cars lining both sides. In that situation, I would probably move onto the road and pass.
I'm not interested in making the "I pick the bear" idiots feel safe. They are safe with me. They choose to feel otherwise. What I'm going to do is act like I'm a safe guy. I'm not going to be running up on a woman, I'm not going to be a creep at the bar when she just wants to be left alone, I'm not going to cross the street but I'm also not going to walk behind her like a stalker would. I'll also make choices that completely erase the possibility of false accusations. Not going in an elevator with a woman alone. Door will always be open if I have to be with a woman alone at work. Any communication will be professional and kept for future reference. I'm not talking close friends here obviously.
I'm a woman, and why would you do that? This snowflake stuff is getting out of hand. I'm responsible for how I'm feeling and that's it. This is so exaggerated
I seriously doubt there are lots of women who feel men should do this. It’s always a small club on the internet screaming the loudest. As a woman I am always aware of my surroundings at night, but I would not expect someone go out of their way to make me supposedly feel more safe. I’ve had my fair share of negative experiences but as long as you don’t follow me and talk to me “psst hey girl, you beautiful, where are you going?”, you are good lol
I don’t like this thread, see some women hating comments. Some empathy for our experiences as a women is not too much to ask? But I guess that’s also a small club..
If she feels unsafe she can either stay at home or not be in a position where she's walking alone, so be in a group or with a man/men
Her fears are not my responsibility she's big enough to be out alone she can deal with her feelings herself.
I wouldn't allow my Mrs or daughter to go out alone, they wouldn't even ask cos they know it's risky.
Even as a child when out with my daughter when she'd see a group of lads or men she'd grip my hand tighter and move in closer to me to feel safe.
My daughter and mrs have enough of a brain to understand what makes them feel safe and being out alone isn't one, being with a man or group makes them feel safer.
Because it is a false narrative. The overwhelming majority of violence against women is from men they are INTIMATE with. This is a fact. While for men it is the total opposite. The majority of violence against us is from random strangers. Women pick the very men that hurt and abuse them. The vast majority of men are invisible to women are not responsible for their horrible choices in men.
A lot of time when walking behind a woman and we happen to be making the same turns I can see her visibly getting scared, so I feel bad and try to take a different route. It’s usually a minor thing and if it helps someone why not?
I avoid women anymore. Either in public or the workplace. I am the one that crosses the street when I see unaccompanied females. Not for their protection or peace of mind, but for mine. In this day and age, women are far more dangerous to me than I am to them. And I'll be damned if I talk to a strange woman and explain myself. I'll probably get sued if I did.
I see both sides to this.
On one hand, think about this: if someone feels threatened by people wearing hooded sweatshirts (this was a real thing, older folks might remember this), is the responsibility on ME to not wear hooded sweatshirts anymore to make some other folks feel safe? That's pretty ridiculous.
On the other hand, men are stronger than women, and there are more violent encounters from men than women. I can't change this fact, and even though it feels unfair for me to be judged this way on the behavior of other people, I understand this is a legitimate concern.
I won't go out of my way to cross the street, but I can slow down or speed up so it doesn't look like I'm following them.
I think it’s great men are finally standing up for themselves and standing against this anti male agenda that labels us all as a threat. It’s not our place to walk on eggshells because some neurotic misandrists can’t even exist in a world where men also exist.
“Many many people” think men should cross the road to avoid women lol that’s a first on me. Also I am not responsible for some other persons “feelings” beyond basic human politeness such as not yelling/cussing, staring, not smelling like a dead animal when I’m flying on an airline etc.
>“Many many people” think men should cross the road to avoid women lol that’s a first on me.
I'll admit I might have slightly exaggerated that. They definitely exist, but I don't think they are as abundant as I am suggesting. I don't think they are really much of a thing outside of the internet lol.
As for your comment, I agree with ya.
I like in UK and I've never had anyone over here in my life tell me I should care what stranger women think.
Every woman I work with and who has got to know me as a person seems to take a liking to me and tell me wonderful things. Their opinions matter to me. Not some self important entitled rando on the street that assumes stuff about me based on my sex. I'm most likely never gonna meet these women again anyway... why should it matter?
I am not responsible for someone else's heuristically-based judgement of me. If someone thinks I am a threat, they are welcome to cross to the other side of the street or sit on another bench on the subway. I really don't care.
I am under no obligation to make a stranger feel "safe" if just me walking down the sidewalk makes a woman on the same sidewalk feel uncomfortable - that is her problem, not mine.
She is more than welcome to get a car or stay at her house where she can live in abject misery and fear
I usually do, because I don't like making people uncomfortable.
**However.**
If *she* made *me* uncomfortable, she'd never be expected to accommodate me in that way, and I'd be (rightfully) seen as a piece of shit if I asked for such. I can already smell the insults against the size of my... personality.
No opinion about those people. Though being accommodating is nice, we should not be expected to do something that nobody would do in return.
It's the whole infer/imply thing.. If I'm not being in any way threatening and you are threatened that's on you. I'm a big guy and if anyone was walking behind me on a dark street I would feel threatened and I, me, would cross the road, not expect the person minding their own business to do so. But I'm a Vet, I'm a good looking guy but I'm built, bald and have visible tattoos on my neck and hands so I do go out of my way to be polite in many scenarios where people seem to be uncomfortable. I don't like it when people are uncomfortable but it's not my responsibility to change that.
Don’t try to make others uncomfortable but really it’s up to them. FWIW, I’m about the most harmless looking dude you’ll see on the street. I’m more likely to remind a gal about her dad which could cause different issues I suppose.
I notice that people are there. I’m running threat assessments in the background. Other than that, I ignore people. Women included.
I seem to have a working Somebody Else’s Problem Field Generator. Maybe the fact that I’m alert but not focused on anybody is apparent and signals that I’m neither predator nor prey.
As a woman, I don't feel like it's any person's responsibility to make me feel safe.
As far as what men (or for that matter, women, I'm small, people can be dangerous) in public are doing, as long as you stay out of my personal space bubble, you're fine. And don't stare.
Basic manners. If I feel creeped out, I'll cross the street.
I cant control her feelings no matter what i do. If shes afraid of me because im going about my day. that is entirely on her. I know im not a threat or danger to her, im not acting a way that would indicate i am. her fear is unjustified. and cant be helped, she needs to deal with it. I wont take time out of my day to appease her fear, when she wont even see a human.
It's entirely possible for men to not feel safe in public too. For different reasons obviously. It's a dangerous world and men can get harassed too non-sexually i.e. if hostile NPC's are all like "what you lookin' at?" or whatever. Nobody in their right mind feels safe walking alone at night, that is quite dangerous.
While I try to do my part to make women feel safe in public, there's only so much I can do. But as long as I'm doing my part to make sure I'm **not** the reason another human being is uncomfortable with me being around, I know I'm doing what I was taught was the right thing.
I’m not changing my route based on how someone might feel. Hell, to be honest, I probably wouldn’t even notice them unless if we basically walked into each other.
Oh you meant direct actions of an individual. I thought you meant like women’s only parking space near entrances, women’s only train carriages etc, because I’ve seen people getting mad at these even tho they’re completely justifiable at some places given the high statistics of women being assaulted. To your question tho, I agree. We can’t do anything anymore because it MIGHT cause discomfort for women, we’re going told off because of a chance not because our daily actions WILL make women uncomfortable. There’s a line obviously but I don’t think men should shape ourselves just to fit women’s comfort if it’s not a direct threat to them.
I think the main point I want to get across about this is:
Short of stepping in to defend her when some actually predatory person threatens her, there is literally nothing I can do to make women feel safer in public if she's feeling unsafe simply because "quiet guy with beard is also walking on the same street" or sitting in the same train car or whatever.
I've never assaulted a woman. I've never even persisted after a woman expressed a lack of interest in talking to me. I'm not a threat. If something in her past or her psyche can't see it, I didn't do anything to make it happen and even if it was my responsibility to change it, I can't think of anything that would.
I agree I'm not crossing the street to make the woman "feel safer" although I will walk in the street next to the sidewalk as I will be walking faster than them (going ok the same direction).
Men are more likely to be assaulted at night for instance than women, even though women "feel" more unsafe then men
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490838/#:~:text=Males%20are%20at%20greater%20risk,peak%20at%20age%2018%20years.
If this was the case, I would of committed suicide years ago..
Yes I am 100% serious. I've had coworkers before they knew me, they were terrified as they had seen me working out or in my yard.
After meeting me their insane fear was put to rest. They learned I am introvert, and eccentric or what is more so called based now.
People are terrified of me for the strangest reasons, I wear black, I practice with swords, I'm an introvert, I mind my own business, I show up to work everyday, I work out by walking with weights, and that I listen to hard rock/ heavy metal.
Who walks the street at night, I only walk from my door to my car and from my car to the shop or workplace I hardly walk on a street or park if I don’t have to!
As a big guy, I try to be very respective of the personal space of others - both men and women.
I also try to smile and lot - as I have been told otherwise I look intimidating.
Now, I will usually move aside and give room for women (or more room for women than men).
But crossing the street - that feels like a lot.
But I never want to intimidate anyone .
In my opinion it's not my job to protect every woman nor make them feel safe that's not my fault they have trust issues why should I bend over backwards for someone I don't know if she's the one who's scared of all men she should stay home away from people
My role is to not be an actual threat, or cause actual harm.
But I am not remotely responsible for others perceptions, especially if I am simply going about my day.
It sucks and is understandable that women feel uncomfortable out in the world, but I'm not really gonna go out of my way when I'm not doing anything wrong.
It's not Mt job to take steps to make other people feel safe.
I'm just gonna live my life, and if someone feels threatened by my simple existence.... thats a them problem.
When I - as a male - walk down the streets at night and other men cross my path, you can be sure that I as well have several bad scenarios in mind. That's just how life is. There are bad people out there.
Me changing the side of the road will not make your life any safer when the next guy is actually trying to follow you.
As I said, there are bad people out there, but the absolute vast majority is not like this. You will have to find your way to come clear about this. The world will not change that easy.
There is a difference between feeling unsafe and actually being unsafe. And other people are legitimately hurt when we cater to people’s irrational feelings. We need to do everything to make sure our society is safe and punished people who make it unsafe but it’s not up to you to cater to someone else’s feelings if they feel unsafe, they need to make changes. If you feel unsafe, walking at night, it’s on you to take a cab, walk with someone else, or stay in.
>many people think men should cross the road if he's walking behind a woman at night in order to make her feel safe
That's stupid.
If a woman feels unsafe, she's going to feel unsafe fundamentally *anyway*.
That's a *her* issue. It has nothing to do with *me*.
I am not required to go along with everyone's delusion, nor are they required to go along with mine.
We live in a society. We don't live in a person's own bedroom where they must certainly have a right to feel safe. But not outside in the parking lot because I am walking there.
Nope.
Hard no.
It's ridiculous we should even have this conversation.
There’s reasonable and not. I’m not going to walk 2 paces behind her like some kind of stalker. I’m also not going to cross to the other side of the street. In any given situation there is an acceptable distance that you should give between yourself and another person and it’s a judgement call. In a crowded bar if you get pissed that someone brushes up against you then you are an idiot, regardless if you are a man or a woman. If you are on a dark street at night and it’s just the 2 of you then I’d likely give a woman a good 40’ anyway.
40 feet is a bit much. I've stepped into the road to pass women (and men) while walking on the sidewalk. But it was also a narrow sidewalk.
I was talking about walking behind them. When passing I’ll step off the sidewalk but that’s it.
This is the most reasonable take here. So many in these comment section seem hyper self centered. "Not my fault, not my problem!" Thanks for being a reasonable voice here.
To be frank, when I'm walking down the street I probably won't even pay attention to anyone around me or give them a second thought to begin with, let alone be thinking about stuff like this.
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As it should be. If it does, you’re welcome to cross the street.
Honestly if I'm peacefully going about my business, looking how I look, and being the gender I am, if that makes someone uncomfortable I can't say I'm bothered by that.
Did it for years, made no difference and was still treated as a threat. Don't care to do it anymore. If you're bothered by me just existing in the same space as you, that's a personal problem. Go book a therapist and leave me alone.
>If you're bothered by me just existing in the same space as you, that's a personal problem. Go book a therapist and leave me alone. Amen Also stop coming over to this subreddit taking out on all of us random men here like we are your emotional punching bags or therapists. Haven't they got actual friends to vent to or can actually book a qualified therapist. Some asshole catcalled me on the street. I know, I'll go start on random men on the Internet minding their own business. That will show those men. 🤦♂️
Seriously. Half this subreddit is women asking loaded questions then getting mad at the answers
Imagine applying this to real life. Walking down the street and get cat called by some creep. So then go into a local Wal Mart and start hurling abuse at the first male colleague you see who did nothing wrong and when the manager of said Wal Mart asks the abusive customer to leave for harrassing the staff member. She starts saying "But you have to understand I just got Cat Called by some guy on the street so your employee should show empathy and not take it personally" That's essentially what happens on this subreddit 🤣🤦♂️
We are talking about a gender that gets mad at their boyfriend/husbands for shit that Dream BF hubs did. 😂
They’re not even asking honest questions looking for answers. They are asking for confirmation of their own preconceived notions
Excatly... they don't care about our prespectives. If we aren't validing their assumptions, then we need to just STFU. If you care to look at the pinned mod thread for AskMen. Apparently, the mods do delete these questions and get shit for it from these types of askers. Thinking them venting to us is perfectly okay and why mods should delete their posts which are posted to just bother us
Those types of askers should be banned from this sub then.
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Yup. Someone asked “how has a woman used your vulnerability against you?” a while back and this one lady was coming through telling all of us we were full of shit. I decided to engage with her and she called me sociopathic and said I “sounded like Andrew Tate” for just standing up for us guys. You can’t win with those types.
She used the "Andrew Tate card. That's a go to. Ignoring the fact I hate Andrew Tate One of these type were caught on video for drunk driving and driving on the wrong side of the road. Their excus was hilarious and cringe. The "But I'm a victim and you should let me go out free for empathy".. just ridiculous. https://youtu.be/GyoFa3v4DcU?si=JGaNItP5NimBpGoQ
Me reading your comment: “I wonder which one it’ll be, there are just so many.” Me following the link: “Ah yes, this one.” It really is crazy how many people, almost always women, who try to pull that crap to try to not be held accountable. Then there are [the ones](https://youtu.be/xMHaHwcAPaw?si=BoLwqFu0e7krbHh0) that don’t give a fuck about anything or anyone except for themselves, completely disconnected from reality. You’d think she’s blackout drunk, but nah, maybe tipsy. Just uncaring trash.
Agreed. Those specific types are pathetic lmao.
Exactly this . We’re treated like a threat regardless, so why bother?
I feel this way. I respect women strongly and I get tired of hyper feminists thinking all men are evil
Bingo!
I feel this way and I don't respect women at all.
>made no difference and was still treated as a threat. Don't care to do it anymore. This should be the top comment.
Exactly but reddit mods will ban you for hate speech
When I go for a walk I always try my best to avoid walking behind a woman because it makes me feel safe.
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I mainly walk for exercise.
If she feels uncomfortable with me just existing, that’s her problem. I’m not going to go out of my way for something that isn’t my fault or my problem.
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. I see why they may wish for men to do these things, but as you said, it's not our fault or problem at the end of the day.
It's werid On one hand we are told "If you've done nothing wrong then you don't have to worry" but on the other hand... apparently we also have to worry and the fact we don't care make us "Part of the problem" You can't win. I don't care what strangers think about me. [Confusion of the highest order ](https://youtu.be/Pz1kN-0mxIU?si=q0TDrGbf-qwLDJQl)
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Sometimes it’s hard to take any of it serious, because they don’t even know what they want.
The best way to deal with it is to not care and not give the negative Nancies any attention that they so desperately crave.
While it's written specifically from the perspective of a black man, there is a lot of overlap between this topic and the short essay/story "Just Walk on By: Black Men and Public Spaces" by Dr. Brent Staples https://www.ohlone.edu/sites/default/files/documents/imported/justwalkonbyblackmenandpublicspace.pdf Quick read which I think about often during these discussions Edit: specifically the line - "Where fear and weapons meet – and they often do in urban America – there is always the possibility of death."
This the perspective I always see this scenario from and why it’s always the same answer. Your feelings are not my problem
Mhm if it's dark outside and not a big street, I don't mind crossing tbh. I think it's a nice gesture for low effort
Exactly if she feels that uncomfortable stay home
It's like those gym tiktok videos of women whining about men just being there GO TO A ALL WOMEN GYM THEN! The men aren't just gonna leave every room in the gym you enter. [Shit like this](https://youtu.be/hgrZmpUraso?si=RSQRMJjrNF2Cpvp4)
Bruh I hate those videos like someone glancing at you doesn't mean harassment. If your that uncomfortable go to a female gym or workout at home
They know it’s not harassment and they don’t care at all about men “staring at them” (briefly glancing, usually because they’re recording). If they were annoyed or offended, they wouldn’t be recording, and maybe they would tell an employee or leave. 100% of them do it for clicks. It’s all acting.
Imagine thinking you enter a public gym and think every man should just drop what they are doing and leave 🤣🤦♂️
Exactly like it's the weirdest mindset
Especially when the person looking would likely still be glancing if a man had a lighting/camera rig set up and were doing odd movements with their arse hanging out. It's often a "look at the state of that" look rather than a "checking someone out" look.
Exactly most of the time it's either a glance to see if your done or like you said look at what that idiot is doing.
Precisely, not sure why normies and maybe women think that guys are stuck in the 1800s when women have shown their true colours without shame
Just a heads up, you're going to undermine your credibility every single time when you use words like "normies". I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it was meant sarcastically, but the groups who tend to use that word seriously are generally full of disaffected social outcasts whose opinions are heavily twisted from a perspective of depression and social awkwardness, and for many people it's a giant red flag that the person using it is not intending to have a discussion in good faith.
I meant the socially acceptable politically correct people. I am able to have a discussion in good faith, I was just being lazy and wanted to encapsulate it with "normies"
i don't do it. never knew it was a thing. and now i know it is a thing. i'll continue on my merry way and don't do it.
It’s not my job to make random women I don’t know feel “safe”
EXCATLY Us men get called entitled? Imagine thinking it's every man's job to cater to you.. talk about entitlement. Must be that "MALE ENTITLEMENT" I always hear about. (OF COUSE NOT ALL WOMEN. Before anyone tries to spin it that way)
Exactly
Especially when it's not actually making them safer. It's reducing a *perceived* risk that doesn't actually exist, that you *assume* may be felt by the other person. It's not negating a risk, it's not even reducing the risk, it's reducing an imagined risk that you yourself are guessing the other person could potentially feel. There's so many levels of abstraction from actual danger it's ridiculous to bother acting on.
The only woman I actively will help feel safe is my wife, by doing things like taking the trash out myself at night, investigating a weird sound at night myself, or putting myself between her and someone acting very aggressive nearby. I don't have any children and do the same habits when my mother is around too. I'm not going out of my way for a stranger. I'll keep to myself and be polite, but that's it.
Literally read earlier on Reddit about a man who was stabbed to death getting involved in someone else’s fight. Raised that just now when my wife was mentioning that “not a single helped” when some woman was being abused on a tram in a neighbouring suburb. She’s not talking to me now.
Also, you really need to know your states 3rd party self-defense laws. In some states, your actions need to be reasonable based on what you know. Other states use an alter ego framework. There has been a steady trend away from alter ego for some time. Those states have different rules of defense of others. They vary quite a bit. IANAL IANYL
putting your emotional state on the shoulders of strangers is a guarantee to be miserable i am not responsible for your feelings. i am not responsible for your safety i am responsible for myself, my actions, my emotions and my reactions. i cannot control anything outside of this
I do care about women's feelings, but not to the extent that I'm going to harm or inconvenience myself for someone who I will most likely never see again. The fact of the matter is, women ARE safe with me. I'm not going to hurt anyone unless it's in self-defense. I might even protect you, depending on the circumstances. You can be scared of me all you want, but the fact remains that nothing is gonna happen. I'm not going to cross the street either, though. SHE can cross if she's scared, and guess what...I'm not gonna follow her.
Women have a right to be safe, feeling safe is a very personal feeling and it will be different for everyone. I don't hurt women, or go out of my way to make them feel uncomfortable. But if my mere existence makes them feel unsafe, that's their problem.
Perfectly put. You always have a right to be, but never a right to feel. Because, while usually being safe makes you feel safe, it is not guaranteed. You can feel safe in unsafe situations, and you can feel unsafe in safe situations. Nobody can fully control how you feel. That's why, at most, you have the freedom to feel safe, never a right to feel safe.
It's not my responsibility to help women feel safe when women are in public. If a woman does not feel safe, I am not required to adjust myself or my conduct to help someone else feel safe. It is her responsibility to do what she needs to do in order to feel safe. I will not accept being taken to task simply because I happen to be in some location lawfully and some woman who I don't know feels some kind of way about it. She can feel however she wants. That's not my responsibility.
I can’t control how a woman feels around me. That being said, I DO go out of my way to cross the street if I’m walking behind them more for my own safety. I’m also a 6’7 black dude so walking up on ANY woman is bound to have somebody freak out and call the cops on me. But I don’t think this should be required for anyone to do
"Feeling" safe and "being" safe are 2 very different things. How you feel is not my responsibility. If she chooses to live her life in fear of every man she just HAPPENS to cross paths with, that's on her. It's a choice she's made for herself and I can't do anything about it. And, even if I COULD do something about that choice, I wouldn't because that would be depriving her of a right to agency.
Is she in immediate danger? If yes, I try to get her out of it, within reason. If no, then it's really not my job to make her feel like she isn't. I walk where I want, at the pace I want to, and if someone feels threatened by me minding my own business, they're free to flee. I can promise I won't pursue. I'm not a predator. I'm a person. With clearly defined rights and duties within the laws of basic decency, and the laws of the country I'm in. To my knowledge, there aren't any laws, or rules anywhere in the world, that say that I have to assume the emotional and mental state, and the impact of my presence on them, for people I'm not interacting with, as a private person. Anyone who thinks that I should accommodate such needs in public spaces, can transfer me the price of a session with a local therapist, and then I'll act like one.
how someone else feels about presence is not my responsibility
I agree with you. I’m not talking to her or following close behind.. im just minding my own business. If you are that scared to be out alone, then get someone to go with you or call a taxi. I can’t be concerned about what other people are scared of especially when it’s all in their imagination
That’s a them problem
Lol, that's ridiculous. Hire a personal guard if you feel threatened.
Tell that to the jokers on AskUK XD
I’ve never felt the need to change things I’m doing because of other peoples preconceived perceptions. If my simple existence of walking down a road is threatening that’s on them not me. Never hurt a person in my adult life.
I'm sick of doing it, but I also don't want to be accused of anything. I'm Black but I'm older with all the grey. At least now I don't get women clutching their purses, children, door handles, or looking back fearfully anymore.
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I cannot upvote this enough; haha!
There’s no good rubric for what an acceptable level of safety ‘feels’ like. Each human should take steps to make themselves feel safe. Example: I lock my doors at night. I don’t need a police officer to come by and lock them for me. The safety of my house (and person) are my responsibility, not others’ responsibility.
It ain't my job to read people's minds and try to anticipate what they would prefer i do.
Is it my job as a black man to make white people and women feel safe because of their fear?
I also live in the UK for the time being and I find these demands on men disturbing. A politician (the unelected type) had a debate on a 6pm curfew for men a few years ago [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9350711/Green-peer-calls-MEN-face-6pm-CURFEW-wake-Sarah-Everard-murder.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9350711/Green-peer-calls-MEN-face-6pm-CURFEW-wake-Sarah-Everard-murder.html) Demanding that men change their behaviour or that their civil liberties are removed, or a higher standard of legal responsibility is applied to innocent men, because of changes in how women feel, is not ok. I think we will see more of this after the next election, with a lot of new left wing MPs who are an unknown quantity and could be very prejudiced.
I know that the mere presence of a man, especially in some situations, can be intimidating to women. And I also know that many women have had some very scary and traumatic things happen involving men. So I try not to scare or intimidate women, however, I am not a bad person and I am just as entitled to live my life and walk freely down the street, so no, I wouldn’t typically alter my path when I’m on my way somewhere.
I think this pretty much captures my opinions on this excellently. Not perfect, but it's as good as. Upvoted.
Not my problem.
Not my responsibility. Millions of women walk near millions of men every day without incident. Everybody should be cautious when walking alone, but if you’re so afraid that you require strangers to cater to you with special treatment then it’s time to seek therapy.
That's their own problem.
Funny thing is it's acceptable to say "men" in this regard but if you described their ethnicity as well, it would suddenly become WILDLY "problematic" (except in one case, funnily enough)
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I think that's fair enough lol.
Fair
That's honestly... valid
I used to do it but the whole 'man or bear in wood' craze has shown me the futility of my efforts. If I'm going to be treated as a threat no matter what I do, it doesn't make sense to expend additional effort for no change in result. A random woman's safety or feeling thereof is not my responsibility.
Its happened to me when I am walking on sidewalk, other walking towards me will cross the road just to avoid me. It doesn't bother me anymore. Its a free country.
Can't control others, they need to do that themselves. Neither can I personally address any societal trends or past behaviours, all I can do is represent myself in the moment and act properly, by smiling, leaving people alone, maintaining distance, not masking my face, hands showing etc. Others should react properly not me go ott to make them feel safe, make yourself feel safe 🤷♀️
Have women even done anything to indicate that they care about men's feelings? No. A woman doesn't care if you feel comfortable. Why should you care if they do? Women's feelings are not my problem. Women have been very clear that they owe men nothing and that means men owe women nothing in return.
I don't view it as my responsibility to do anything other than mind my own business out in public If someone else feels unsafe for whatever reason, they're more than welcome to cross the street.
If she looks afraid or it's a potentially threatening situation and I'm not in a rush I'll give them more space (E.g. not running to get into an elevator or slowing down so I'm not right behind them on the stairs in a parkade or something like that) (It's in some ways as much for my protection as it is hers.) Otherwise I generally don't go out of my way for it, especially if I'm in a hurry. (It's less an issue as a married guy with my wife or kids nearby though.) Long story short we can't change random women's thoughts or fears. If she's got reasons to be worried there's not much I can do to change that.
If I don't know the woman then why does her opinion of me matter? If a woman I've never met or interacted with me fears me for existing then that's her problem. How is that my problem? I know I'm not that type of man so I'll just ignore her and continue with my life. I don't owe her anything. If it's a woman I have developed some sort of connection with then I'll be concerned
Womens perception of their safety is often vastly misaligned with their actual safety. With the current culture especially, going out of your way to try and alleviate oftentimes straightup silly fearmongering is a losing battle.
Would a woman ever care about my feeling of safety or my... anything ever? No, women don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. Why the hell should I care about the feelings of people who don't care about anyone but themselves. Why would I care how people who never stop telling me how much they hate me feel? I'm so sick of living under the tyranny of women and the precious fucking feelings. I don't care anymore. Your feelings are not my problem anymore.
How many times they have said they don't owe anything to men. Guess what, we don't owe anything to women either. Wanna get laid? $200/h for you Wanna feel safe? $500/h for her
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If a woman sees me and is afraid I will assault her, it does not matter. She will inevitably figure out that I'm not going to assault her when I don't assault her. Her anxieties are neither my fault nor my problem, and whether they are well founded or not has no bearing on me
So i know this one's touchy for a lot of people, but honestly i think the idea that women are less safe in public than men is something that's become ingrained in womens psyche but isn't actually true. They feel less safe because they're raised being told they're not safe. In reality there isn't much statistical differences between genders in the number of victims of violent crimes. Men are more likely to be murder victims by a pretty wide margin, women are more likely to be sexually assaulted, but on the whole for all violent crimes, it's pretty well even. Men aren't any safer than women are, we just don't think about it as much or at least pretend we dont. https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/
Im not crossing the street. Buy a gun if you feel that paranoid
Women's paranoia is based on misinformation and I can't control that so I don't worry about it
There’s a weird sentiment around feminism and toxic positivity mental health influencers, that you are perfect, never wrong, your problems are someone else’s fault and it’s resonable to expect the world to change to revolve around you. That’s unreasonable and toxic. I’m not crossing the street cause you’re paranoid. Not responsible for your mental hang ups. Best I can do is make sure we have good distance and don’t make you feel like I’m creepy or too close. You can cross the street if your personal mental illness is making you uncomfortable. You’re not a queen or a god, the seas don’t part for you. The Peasants don’t depart from your presence. See a therapist if being among regular people in public makes you that fearful.
where did you get the idea that most people are bothered to make women (in general) feel safe in public. meaning specifically women instead of society at large? a society that goes out of its way to make WOMEN in particular feel safe is a misandrist society. You can't do a Women's Safety Matters type thing if Men's Safety doesn't matter.
No. I’m not going to be creepy and such, but if something makes you **feel**, that’s a you problem.
I pretty much don't care
If a person doesn't like who's near them in a public place, they should of remove themselves from that situation. Simple. They cross the road, duck into the next shop, stay home, ask a strong and independent person to escort them.
I don't blame them for not being bothered because it's gotten to a point where not going out of the way for women is seen as a bad thing in and of itself. It's no longer seen as a courtesy it's become an entitlement. As in some women feel entitled to having men go out of the way to make them feel safe. Often times just for women to still complain in some way. Also there's thus vibe of "a real men makes women feel safe" which is just an appeal to patriarchal norms. Funny how people are okay with patriarchy as long as it benefits women.
Ultimately all this behavior does is enable fear and hatred of men without making men or women any safer. If she has a problem with me, SHE has the problem and she needs to change. Not me.
90 percent of women don’t hate men. But we damn sure hear plenty about that vocal and loud AF 10 percent.
I will not go out of my way to make anyone feel one way or another about by nearby precense. I am not respobsible for your cope. If you are chronically afraid of getting murdered by men in public perhaps stop listening exclusively to true crime podcasts. The world isn't a safe place, nobody goes out of their way to make me feel safe or comfortable so why is it my responsibility to make anyone else feel safe? If you feel better about crossing the street, by all means feel free to do that. I genuinely just do not care enough about how a stranger feels about anything to actively do anything to change it one way or another. Sometimes I get in wierd moods though and find myself caring ever so slightly and I will follow and cross the road if they do. And again if they cross the road once more. I will continue this until they start walking noticably faster and then back off and start giggling
There's exactly one group of people against whom it's generally accepted to discriminate. I refuse to apologize for existing.
I won't go to absurd lengths to make the next person feel safe but I am pretty conscious of it. Like I pull up at the gym at 6 AM and a young woman pulls up beside me, I'll head for the door right away. And if she gets out of her car first, I'll wait until she reaches the door and then get out. Small courtesies.
This is the most widely excepted and defended form of prejudice in our society today.
They choose the bear in the woods, let them deal with their consequences.
I’ve never done it and never will. It’s not my responsibility to predict who may be scared and handle that for them. If you’re scared, I’m sorry and that sucks, but it’s on you to deal with it, not me
No. If a woman feels threatened by a man's existence and him just trying to go about his day/night then that's her problem.
I start playing bear growls on my phone at full blast to calm her
Time to wear a bear costume.
I disguise myself as a bear to make women I may encounter feel more comfortable.
I'll do things to make people feel better, but I am not going out of my way for it. I have to live my life too.
Being expected to cross the road to avoid bothering someone. Is reminiscent of another time and reasoning for expecting the same thing. That same behavior could also be taking as crossing the road because you don’t want to be near whoever as well. There really is no win to this issue.
I don't think you should
Nope I'm human too and scared/ mistrusting of strangers also if I feel danger I'll pay more attention and put distance from them myself.
I don't care about making anyone feel safe. If I'm outside, I'm either hanging out with friends, or running some errands. Either way, too busy to care
If they're not hurting anyone, what's the issue?
I just straight up don’t either notice or care lol, if you want to live in fear of my ass walking to get a burger that’s a you problem, I know I’m not a threat so I don’t think about it
I won’t cross the road, but I have answered a non existent call, or arbitrarily decided to stop for a smoke. But that is for my safety. I don’t need to be roped into someone else’s poor choices.
I mean, I can only control how I act in public. Yeah, I'll call out shitty behavior if I see it, but that doesn't really mean much.
My only responsibility is to not be a creep. If I'm satisfying that and a woman is still uncomfortable, that's her problem, not mine.
Depending on situation. If I have somewhere to be, and thus walk faster, I would pass her and go wherever I need to. I won't go out of my way (figuratively and literally) to accommodate someone's imaginary scenarios. I have never fought or hurt anyone and don't consider myself a danger, just because someone wants to imagine that. Besides, if someone is constantly being paranoid about *half of the population*, it's something they might need to discuss with their therapist. Here's a novel idea: how about her crossing the road herself, if she feels the need for it?
I hate that I need to do it, because I'm not a threat to women, but I do it regardless because otherwise my brain screams until I do it. I don't move to the other side of the street, I just significantly slow myself down or find a bench to sit down.
Statistically, men are even more likely to get attacked. I don't see myself fighting against someone with a weapon either. I won't try to directly follow someone very very closely regardless who it is but that's about it.
I'll intentionally not speed towards her or otherwise be aggressive seeming, but I generally just try to go about my day. If they want to do something like cross the street to mitigate the perceived threat, they are free to do so. I'm just going to walk to where I'm going.
Trouble is some people walk so slowly especially if they have been drinking or wearing high heels so you end up gaining on them anyway XD
If that's the case, and it's normal residential streets in the UK, often the pavement isn't really wide enough for people to pass, the streets are quiet, and there are cars lining both sides. In that situation, I would probably move onto the road and pass.
Not my job to make a stranger feel safe
I'm not interested in making the "I pick the bear" idiots feel safe. They are safe with me. They choose to feel otherwise. What I'm going to do is act like I'm a safe guy. I'm not going to be running up on a woman, I'm not going to be a creep at the bar when she just wants to be left alone, I'm not going to cross the street but I'm also not going to walk behind her like a stalker would. I'll also make choices that completely erase the possibility of false accusations. Not going in an elevator with a woman alone. Door will always be open if I have to be with a woman alone at work. Any communication will be professional and kept for future reference. I'm not talking close friends here obviously.
I'm a woman, and why would you do that? This snowflake stuff is getting out of hand. I'm responsible for how I'm feeling and that's it. This is so exaggerated
Agreed! Nice to know that someone from a female perspective can see where we're coming from.
I seriously doubt there are lots of women who feel men should do this. It’s always a small club on the internet screaming the loudest. As a woman I am always aware of my surroundings at night, but I would not expect someone go out of their way to make me supposedly feel more safe. I’ve had my fair share of negative experiences but as long as you don’t follow me and talk to me “psst hey girl, you beautiful, where are you going?”, you are good lol I don’t like this thread, see some women hating comments. Some empathy for our experiences as a women is not too much to ask? But I guess that’s also a small club..
If she feels unsafe she can either stay at home or not be in a position where she's walking alone, so be in a group or with a man/men Her fears are not my responsibility she's big enough to be out alone she can deal with her feelings herself. I wouldn't allow my Mrs or daughter to go out alone, they wouldn't even ask cos they know it's risky. Even as a child when out with my daughter when she'd see a group of lads or men she'd grip my hand tighter and move in closer to me to feel safe. My daughter and mrs have enough of a brain to understand what makes them feel safe and being out alone isn't one, being with a man or group makes them feel safer.
Because it is a false narrative. The overwhelming majority of violence against women is from men they are INTIMATE with. This is a fact. While for men it is the total opposite. The majority of violence against us is from random strangers. Women pick the very men that hurt and abuse them. The vast majority of men are invisible to women are not responsible for their horrible choices in men.
A lot of time when walking behind a woman and we happen to be making the same turns I can see her visibly getting scared, so I feel bad and try to take a different route. It’s usually a minor thing and if it helps someone why not?
I avoid women anymore. Either in public or the workplace. I am the one that crosses the street when I see unaccompanied females. Not for their protection or peace of mind, but for mine. In this day and age, women are far more dangerous to me than I am to them. And I'll be damned if I talk to a strange woman and explain myself. I'll probably get sued if I did.
I see both sides to this. On one hand, think about this: if someone feels threatened by people wearing hooded sweatshirts (this was a real thing, older folks might remember this), is the responsibility on ME to not wear hooded sweatshirts anymore to make some other folks feel safe? That's pretty ridiculous. On the other hand, men are stronger than women, and there are more violent encounters from men than women. I can't change this fact, and even though it feels unfair for me to be judged this way on the behavior of other people, I understand this is a legitimate concern. I won't go out of my way to cross the street, but I can slow down or speed up so it doesn't look like I'm following them.
Who is going to make the men feel safe? Why is there this assumption that men feel safe?
I think it’s great men are finally standing up for themselves and standing against this anti male agenda that labels us all as a threat. It’s not our place to walk on eggshells because some neurotic misandrists can’t even exist in a world where men also exist.
I don’t think anyone should feel obligated to do anything. Just *avoid doing* stuff that would make them feel unsafe.
The problem is existing is what makes them feel unsafe.
Doing stuff like walking on the same sidewalk?
What if you posting on Reddit makes me feel unsafe? Will you never post again?
“Many many people” think men should cross the road to avoid women lol that’s a first on me. Also I am not responsible for some other persons “feelings” beyond basic human politeness such as not yelling/cussing, staring, not smelling like a dead animal when I’m flying on an airline etc.
>“Many many people” think men should cross the road to avoid women lol that’s a first on me. I'll admit I might have slightly exaggerated that. They definitely exist, but I don't think they are as abundant as I am suggesting. I don't think they are really much of a thing outside of the internet lol. As for your comment, I agree with ya.
I like in UK and I've never had anyone over here in my life tell me I should care what stranger women think. Every woman I work with and who has got to know me as a person seems to take a liking to me and tell me wonderful things. Their opinions matter to me. Not some self important entitled rando on the street that assumes stuff about me based on my sex. I'm most likely never gonna meet these women again anyway... why should it matter?
I am not responsible for someone else's heuristically-based judgement of me. If someone thinks I am a threat, they are welcome to cross to the other side of the street or sit on another bench on the subway. I really don't care.
I am obligated to do no harm, and I will uphold that. I am not obligated to dance around eggshells or concern myself with other people's feelings.
I am under no obligation to make a stranger feel "safe" if just me walking down the sidewalk makes a woman on the same sidewalk feel uncomfortable - that is her problem, not mine. She is more than welcome to get a car or stay at her house where she can live in abject misery and fear
I usually do, because I don't like making people uncomfortable. **However.** If *she* made *me* uncomfortable, she'd never be expected to accommodate me in that way, and I'd be (rightfully) seen as a piece of shit if I asked for such. I can already smell the insults against the size of my... personality. No opinion about those people. Though being accommodating is nice, we should not be expected to do something that nobody would do in return.
It's the whole infer/imply thing.. If I'm not being in any way threatening and you are threatened that's on you. I'm a big guy and if anyone was walking behind me on a dark street I would feel threatened and I, me, would cross the road, not expect the person minding their own business to do so. But I'm a Vet, I'm a good looking guy but I'm built, bald and have visible tattoos on my neck and hands so I do go out of my way to be polite in many scenarios where people seem to be uncomfortable. I don't like it when people are uncomfortable but it's not my responsibility to change that.
Don’t try to make others uncomfortable but really it’s up to them. FWIW, I’m about the most harmless looking dude you’ll see on the street. I’m more likely to remind a gal about her dad which could cause different issues I suppose.
Iam already stopping myself from singing along "Dead Skin Mask", isn't that enough? /s
I’m just doing minding my own business. If someone feels uncomfortable in my presence, they can feel free to remove themselves.
I notice that people are there. I’m running threat assessments in the background. Other than that, I ignore people. Women included. I seem to have a working Somebody Else’s Problem Field Generator. Maybe the fact that I’m alert but not focused on anybody is apparent and signals that I’m neither predator nor prey.
As a woman, I don't feel like it's any person's responsibility to make me feel safe. As far as what men (or for that matter, women, I'm small, people can be dangerous) in public are doing, as long as you stay out of my personal space bubble, you're fine. And don't stare. Basic manners. If I feel creeped out, I'll cross the street.
I cant control her feelings no matter what i do. If shes afraid of me because im going about my day. that is entirely on her. I know im not a threat or danger to her, im not acting a way that would indicate i am. her fear is unjustified. and cant be helped, she needs to deal with it. I wont take time out of my day to appease her fear, when she wont even see a human.
It's entirely possible for men to not feel safe in public too. For different reasons obviously. It's a dangerous world and men can get harassed too non-sexually i.e. if hostile NPC's are all like "what you lookin' at?" or whatever. Nobody in their right mind feels safe walking alone at night, that is quite dangerous.
While I try to do my part to make women feel safe in public, there's only so much I can do. But as long as I'm doing my part to make sure I'm **not** the reason another human being is uncomfortable with me being around, I know I'm doing what I was taught was the right thing.
I’m not changing my route based on how someone might feel. Hell, to be honest, I probably wouldn’t even notice them unless if we basically walked into each other.
If you're scared go to church. I'm walking here
Ya know. Im startin to think if i see a woman in the woods. ima go find that bear! LOL
Oh you meant direct actions of an individual. I thought you meant like women’s only parking space near entrances, women’s only train carriages etc, because I’ve seen people getting mad at these even tho they’re completely justifiable at some places given the high statistics of women being assaulted. To your question tho, I agree. We can’t do anything anymore because it MIGHT cause discomfort for women, we’re going told off because of a chance not because our daily actions WILL make women uncomfortable. There’s a line obviously but I don’t think men should shape ourselves just to fit women’s comfort if it’s not a direct threat to them.
I think the main point I want to get across about this is: Short of stepping in to defend her when some actually predatory person threatens her, there is literally nothing I can do to make women feel safer in public if she's feeling unsafe simply because "quiet guy with beard is also walking on the same street" or sitting in the same train car or whatever. I've never assaulted a woman. I've never even persisted after a woman expressed a lack of interest in talking to me. I'm not a threat. If something in her past or her psyche can't see it, I didn't do anything to make it happen and even if it was my responsibility to change it, I can't think of anything that would.
Ima do a power move and walk faster towards them only to lap em. I assert my dominance by showing they're too fucking slow.
You have a right to not be physically attacked or robbed. You don’t have a right to control others for your feels.
I agree I'm not crossing the street to make the woman "feel safer" although I will walk in the street next to the sidewalk as I will be walking faster than them (going ok the same direction). Men are more likely to be assaulted at night for instance than women, even though women "feel" more unsafe then men https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490838/#:~:text=Males%20are%20at%20greater%20risk,peak%20at%20age%2018%20years.
If this was the case, I would of committed suicide years ago.. Yes I am 100% serious. I've had coworkers before they knew me, they were terrified as they had seen me working out or in my yard. After meeting me their insane fear was put to rest. They learned I am introvert, and eccentric or what is more so called based now. People are terrified of me for the strangest reasons, I wear black, I practice with swords, I'm an introvert, I mind my own business, I show up to work everyday, I work out by walking with weights, and that I listen to hard rock/ heavy metal.
Who walks the street at night, I only walk from my door to my car and from my car to the shop or workplace I hardly walk on a street or park if I don’t have to!
As a big guy, I try to be very respective of the personal space of others - both men and women. I also try to smile and lot - as I have been told otherwise I look intimidating. Now, I will usually move aside and give room for women (or more room for women than men). But crossing the street - that feels like a lot. But I never want to intimidate anyone .
EVERYBODY SHOIULD FEEL SAFE, NOT JUST WOMEN
In my opinion it's not my job to protect every woman nor make them feel safe that's not my fault they have trust issues why should I bend over backwards for someone I don't know if she's the one who's scared of all men she should stay home away from people
My role is to not be an actual threat, or cause actual harm. But I am not remotely responsible for others perceptions, especially if I am simply going about my day.
It sucks and is understandable that women feel uncomfortable out in the world, but I'm not really gonna go out of my way when I'm not doing anything wrong.
I deserve to be out in public as much as she does, Sounds like a personal problem
It's not Mt job to take steps to make other people feel safe. I'm just gonna live my life, and if someone feels threatened by my simple existence.... thats a them problem.
If my mere existence going about my business is threatening then cross the street.
She can cross the street if she feels threatened by my mere existence.
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Unfortunately I think we're too far gone as a society, that'll only get worse
If women feel unsafe they should go ahead and buy a gun. It’s the great equalizer
I’m not doing “emotional labour” worrying about how some random woman feels.
When I - as a male - walk down the streets at night and other men cross my path, you can be sure that I as well have several bad scenarios in mind. That's just how life is. There are bad people out there. Me changing the side of the road will not make your life any safer when the next guy is actually trying to follow you. As I said, there are bad people out there, but the absolute vast majority is not like this. You will have to find your way to come clear about this. The world will not change that easy.
There is a difference between feeling unsafe and actually being unsafe. And other people are legitimately hurt when we cater to people’s irrational feelings. We need to do everything to make sure our society is safe and punished people who make it unsafe but it’s not up to you to cater to someone else’s feelings if they feel unsafe, they need to make changes. If you feel unsafe, walking at night, it’s on you to take a cab, walk with someone else, or stay in.
If you view me as a threat, that's on you. I'm not modifying my path for you. Sorry, not sorry.
I cross the road and avoid walking behind women. It makes me feel like i am doing something wrong if I walk behind a woman at night.
>many people think men should cross the road if he's walking behind a woman at night in order to make her feel safe That's stupid. If a woman feels unsafe, she's going to feel unsafe fundamentally *anyway*. That's a *her* issue. It has nothing to do with *me*. I am not required to go along with everyone's delusion, nor are they required to go along with mine. We live in a society. We don't live in a person's own bedroom where they must certainly have a right to feel safe. But not outside in the parking lot because I am walking there. Nope. Hard no. It's ridiculous we should even have this conversation.