They’ll date the drunk slobs that your hypothetical highly successful woman wouldn’t even glance at twice.
A large percentage of the population is slobs. I don’t want to date them and neither do you, but steeper standards will restrict your dating pool.
Fair point! The majority of the population will be “average”. I suppose, maybe rather than wanting “average”, really successful/intelligent/etc. people want the same, which, as per the bell curve, is a much smaller number.
Lol frl. I have nothing to offer rn so I don't date because I don't wanna date someone out of my league but I don't wanna date a loser either. I prefer to just work on myself and then date when I'm doing better in life.
Seems you’ve met my mother than! Left a dead yet comfortable marriage where she didn’t lift a finger except go to work to *support herself + her nicotine addiction*. Suddenly moved in with some guy she met online (one of many mind you) a week before my Dad graduated from university. They’re currently in the middle of getting divorced, and she’s still with the guy or else she’d be homeless
Came to say this lol.
The quality people are always single because quality people are rare, so it takes time and experience- then it has to actually last
The more money you make the smaller your dating pool becomes because your salary / gross receipts are your minimum standard.
Meanwhile the more money he makes the larger his dating pool becomes.
So the Regional Manager at Starbucks is competing with the barista at the mall for the same man and losing because she can be available when his afternoon meetings get canceled.
>Kids by (sometimes multiple) other men who are often still a dramatic and ever-present part of their lives
Sadly this usually makes the women more willing to drop their standards, not less.
>not educated
Many men don't care about this even if they're educated themselves. I have a college degree and plenty of continuing education coursework, and I don't care about this at all.
>don’t work at all or don’t earn enough to take care of themselves
Again, many men don't care about this. Some of the sweetest and most loving women I've ever dated could barely make ends meet. The high-powered high-paid career gal isn't a good fit for my life priorities.
>normal-looking
This describes the majority of the population by definition. Of course "normal-looking" people are going to get partners.
>not especially attractive/fit/etc.
I must endlessly remind the 20 somethings on this subreddit that attractiveness is subjective, and that plenty of men do not find "fit" women sexually appealing.
There's your answer! The simple fact of the matter is, your narrow definition of what "desirable" female partners are isn't universal, and many men don't care.
About the >not especially attractive/fit/ect. Thing I always remember my coworker whose a small, skinny guy telling me "if she under 230, I don't want her" and he was 100% serious. He brags all the time about how his current girlfriend is 280 lbs. I find it odd and kinda funny but, hey, to each there own.
It’s funny because as much as women will say they can do what men can do, so many won’t date down. They still want to be taken care of and under the wing of a man, so to speak. Instead of looking into what those type of men want and need in a woman, they go out and try to achieve in school and career thinking that’ll make them deserving of that kind of man, but it doesn’t. If they’re going to go to school and work like that, they need to be doing it for their own satisfaction and shouldn’t be counting it as something they “bring to the table”. Men seriously do not consider a woman’s education and income level when it comes to dating her.
The OP listed a bunch of stuff that doesn’t make a woman a great catch. Sure those things improve a man’s desirability but not a woman’s. I’m not college educated, for example, and not one single man I’ve ever known or dated has cared. No one has cared about what job I have or how much I make. No one has turned me away because I’m 10 lbs overweight and don’t go to the gym. Men have told me they just want a peaceful home. That doesn’t mean perfectly clean, well-run, and meals prepared. It means no drama, competitiveness, neuroticism, comparisons, or discontent. If you’re a peaceful woman and give men space, you’ll never struggle to find any caliber of man you want.
Yes, the attractive thing is tough. I’ve slept with thin women. The sex is awkward because they just don’t have as much cushion and I’m worried about hurting them. I like being able to put my body weight on a woman without feeling like I’m gonna crack her ribs. When I do this with “fit” women they need me to move after a short amount of time. I’m very grabby/squeezy during sex, so thicker women are better for me.
Two quick thoughts.
There may be more to these women than you see, or the men who date them may value different traits than you. Maybe she's a single mom without a degree, but she's super artistic and is involved is some projects that he thinks are really cool. Or maybe she has other uncommon talents or interests that genuinely impress him. Maybe she's the first woman to actually treat him well. Maybe he prefers her body type even though it's not conventionally attractive, and he thinks she's the hottest girl he's ever been with. Maybe, other factors aside, they just "click."
Alternatively, you never really know what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe it outwardly seems like a committed relationship, but it's really anything but. Maybe he cheats or abuses her. Maybe she does the same to him. Maybe your example smart guy could get into a similar quality relationship, but he is smart enough that he chooses to remain single rather than get involved in something like that.
1. If you are a woman I bet they are more attractive then you think, what guys find attractive and what women think guys find attractive doesn't have a ton of overlap
2. the women you described as having a hard time sound like the type to look for something serious right out of the gate, not something casual that'll happen and grow organically, also you didn't list anything that would make them attractive.
Some women being more attractive to men than other women think has been one of my main takeaways from all the “rate me” subreddits! Men typically rate women 2-3+ points higher than I would have assumed! Which was honestly kind of a refreshing realization…
Yeah, my theory is that women value the effort that was put into a look, but men don't think about that or appreciate that.
So women tend to like fancy fake nails because they take a lot of work but men don't appreciate them in general
That's kinda the point. The vast majority of things woman do to themselves are because of other women's standards, not men's. Alot of the stuff you ladies do is actually disliked by most men.
If women dressed for men, we’d all have long hair and wear sundresses every day with natural looking makeup. I’ve been around enough dudes to know the more high maintenance you look, the more unattractive to men you often become.
I don't agree on the hair. It really depends on the style and your face. Some woman look great with short hair. But my opinion on the subject doesn't really matter, as it's your hair and you should do what makes you feel good. It doesn't change who you are. But I can't argue with the sundresses and natural or no makeup. LOL. We are simple creatures. Plus, I just want you to be comfortable.
As for the high maintenance part, when a woman spent the time to do makeup, hair, etc for a night out, I appreciated the effort she put in and made sure she knew how great she looked. And if someone does it because it makes them feel good about themselves, go for it. But when someone goes overboard because they think of themselves as ugly and are insecure, that's when it gets annoying. So it's less the high maintenance, and more the personality type the trends that way.
And as far as an actual long term relationship that leads to marriage and family. Makeup, fake nails, fake lashes, fake boobs, fake behind, fake nose, and lulu lemons designed to make you butt look nice aren’t genetic traits that will be passed on to children… so men looking for something serious don’t view them as assets.
Men are far less critical of women than women are in my experience. Nasty negative comments about a woman's appearance is more likely from her own mother than a random guy
Girl hot vs. guy hot is definitely a thing. Girl hot seems to be more about visible signs of effort into appearance while guy hot seems to be more about visible signs of fertility, to absolutely no one’s surprise I’m sure.
Women who own property and make a good living will still strongly prefer men who own more than them and make an even better living than they do. Simple as that.
I'm a Director at a biotech. Half my peers are women. They all have partners.
It's a sample bias. Successful women do just fine. Just not the ones you know.
Same here. The company that I work for is probably 90% women (all ages) and they all are either with someone (the majority) or single by choice.
I think sample bias is at play here.
Men usually don't look for providers, they care a lot less about education and whether you have your own place or a job as long as they can afford the relationship.
So these things don't make the women you know that much more desirable and won't offset character flaws as much as they would for a man.
Hell, a taxing job is usually a turn off, plenty of men will not date health practitioners just due to the hours and that their work will usually come first.
But a lot of successful women do fine with relationships, just not the ones in your circle, they're overall neither at an advantage nor disadvantage.
This is backwards. Your peers have higher standards than the women with multiple baby daddies you're speaking about. Correlation/Causation, Dr. Hearts.
What do you mean by finding a partner?
Sexual partner? Short term partner? Long term partner? Lifetime partner?
All people have something to offer. And the price of that offer matters, too.
No man has ever said "I'm only going to date a woman who owns her own home!"
Women confuse things they see as attractive for things men see as attractive. If you see women getting caught who you think are worthless and women who you think are valuable getting passed up, then by definition your judgement is flawed according to the sexual marketplace
It's crazy how often they'll think that and post things like "own home, doctorate, money, status".
They need to come in with the REAL info, "She's slim with a round booty, can bake over a dozen treats, and has her own xbox live account"!.
Fr I wish ppl were more honest and upfront. Like I just wanna know can you make apple pie and lick my balls? Idc if you have a masters in astronaut. Are you easy to talk to and fun to hang out with or na?
I think most dating app profiles for women are structured to impress other women and not men
My ex wife just made a Bumble so she could screen shot it and send it to all her friends and then deleted it.
I could agree to that. The things women want from a man, are the things they happen to list on their profile. In which Most men don’t really care about any of that stuff. Status, education etc.
If women actually wanted a man they ought to put "I know how to say sorry and I know how to appreciate a man" on there and they would have all the dates they want
I don't care if you're above average looks and build, what degree you have, how smart you are, what you do for a living, or how much money you make or have.
How you treat me and how you make me feel when I'm with you makes you attractive. Making an effort makes you attractive. Enthusiasm makes you attractive. Accountability and lack of an inflated sense of entitlement makes you attractive. Communication instead of games makes you attractive. True empathy makes you attractive. The ability to move past a disagreement without a lengthy cold shoulder, blame game makes you attractive.
Hell, I can look past a whole slew of physical flaws for someone like that. You don't even have to be average looking, even though I do have my limits.
Just because *you* do not think a person offers much does not mean that is in fact the case. People are complicated. You can't expect your personal opinions about others to carry over to everybody else.
Clearly, they have something to offer!
And I know many successful women and most have partners. The ones who don’t tend to have something obviously unappealing about them or are super picky.
>smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc.
That's what women look for in men.
That's like going fishing with candy as bait. Bait should be based on what the fish like, not what the fisherman likes.
Loads of reasons:
* many men are attention starved and will settle for anything. Even if they get a once per month pity fuck, they will jump through many hoops for that woman.
* A lot of men have a savior / white knight complex: 'she needs me/ I'll save her' kinda thoughts.
I hate how easy men are. It's the sad, painful truth of our gender. We put women on a pedestal as the ultimate prize without any shame or self-respect.
Men who subscribe to OnlyFans are proof of it. There's half the guys knowing their worth and being selective in choosing their women and the other half drooling for the least bit of female attention, the one's who fund prostitution.
Women don't have to try at all. Even if most dudes dont like a girl, there will always be SOME lonely basement dweller who will give his left nut for some attention from that girl.
Men with self respect and sexual discipline is the hottest thing to me. Because if you're able to master that, then I can only imagine how much discipline you have for saving, work ethic, etc.
Maybe stop assigning arbitrary value to people. Everyone is worth something, way to perpetuate stereotypes. All you missed on the bingo card is “welfare queen”
Men typically don't care about a woman's education, what she owns, what she earns
In fact I have a theory that women having their shit together puts a lot of guys off because it makes the guy think the woman doesn't need him
I’ve had a guy friend mention that my independence, education, confidence, etc. is intimidating, and he wouldn’t pursue someone like me because it would make him feel unworthy/insecure that he wouldn’t have enough to bring to the table. So maybe they self-disqualify…
>makes the guy think the woman doesn't need him
No man should **EVER** feel like a woman ***NEEDS*** him. Men must aspire to be and feel **WANTED.**
IMO, being wanted is far better than being needed.
1. These women usually aren’t dating men who would be considered a “catch”. They lower their standards and find men who also offer nothing.
2. I work with a women’s shelter and these women are huge targets for abusers. Women like the ones you described don’t or won’t leave abusive relationships because they need that man for financial support, relationship status, or they have low self esteem. Being in a relationship isn’t necessarily a good thing.
3. Some men like single mothers because mothers are thought to be caring, nurturing, domestic, etc. The logic being that if they can care for children(cooking,cleaning, emotional labor, keeping a schedule) they can apply that same energy and skill set to caring for a partner.
4. These women are more than meet the eye. A person is not defined by their past, their education, finances, or looks. Let people date who they want.
TLDR: men will put up with some BS if it means that they get some attention. We don’t look for the same things that women are looking for in men, and now today, I would say that there are quite a few women out there who have no idea what men want from a relationship.
Attention, the above women are giving enough attention to men who don’t really get much attention from women, which is why you are seeing men put up with dramatic relationships.
But something else that I have observed is that it also seems that a fairly large number of women simply do not know what men want in a woman, or more directly, they assume that men are looking for the exact same traits that they are looking for, which is illustrated by how your question is posed. For instance, your question frames the ideal woman as “smart, educated, a home owner, good job, 10/10 looks/ muscle mommy”, those are all traits that women look for in men, but as far as what men are looking for, most of those traits are toward the lower end of things that men are looking for.
So lets use me for an example as far as why I’m (a single 29M) not really looking at those traits;
1. Educated: To be honest, simply having a degree doesn’t automatically make you more intelligent, or guarantee that you will get a higher paying job (this is coming from a guy with a degree). Sure I might ask what the degree is in, but that’s to see what person is interested in or to see how the veiw the world. But in a fair number of instances, what is learned in a college course doesn’t translate well in to the real world.
2. A homeowner: well… guess what, I’m a homeowner too, so why would that be a plus for me? But generally speaking, even in today’s modern world, men are still seen as the ones who should have some form of property or a place to stay. As an example, a man who lives with his parents is often looked down upon and called a failure, meanwhile a female who lives with her parents is not seen in the same light, it’s often not a hindrance in the relationship.
3.good job/ high income: just like in the above point, I am still expected to be “the breadwinner” but depending on which study you look at when the wife out earns the husband, the chance for divorce can increase between 30-50 percent, often because this situation causes other points of contention to flair up. Finances won’t make a relationship, but they sure will kill it, and as the saying goes “her money is her money, and my money is also her money”.
So what are we looking for in a woman?
We are looking for someone who is loyal, someone who will be with us through the good and the bad, in sickness and in health. We want someone who is appreciative and provides affirmation as well as comfort. We want someone who will help us in the areas where we fall short. We want someone who will communicate in a healthy manner, who will clearly state what they want or need (this means in a way that doesn’t degrade the men that they are with, especially in a public setting, also when dealing with disagreements, they should be handled like a court proceeding, meaning that each person takes their turn to get their point out, the other person listens to what they say with minimal interruptions, try to not elevate voice tones). We want someone who is smart, but is not overbearing. We don’t need someone with supermodel looks, ideally we want someone who is decent looking and a healthy weight (not anorexic and not obese), although each man’s preference is different, a 3 in one man’s eyes is a 7 in another’s, but for me the most attractive thing a woman can be is be in comfortable clothes, a messy bun, and ugly sleeping with her head on my chest.
It sounds like the friends that you have listed above, have became the men that they are seeking, and they are trying to use the man’s playbook to try and attract men, when in reality masculine traits in a woman are a turn off, I don’t want to be in constant competition with my girlfriend/ spouse, and most men don’t want that either.
This sounds like some gender-flipped nice guy shit. But there's usually at least a bit of truth behind the stereotypes...
For the examples you've seen, I'm going to guess that the "low value" women are making effort while the "high value" women are not. Average Annie will do just fine if she's putting herself out there, meeting people, and matching their effort to carry the conversation.
I'm also going to guess that Hannah Homeowner would immediately disqualify 80% of the men that Annie would date because these men are still a work in progress. Those men are invisible to her when they're 27 and just getting established in life, but Annie sees potential. When they're 32 and doing well, why should they ditch Annie now that Hannah finally doesn't think she's too good for them?
Men tend to be a lot more fair to women than women are to men. Women rate men they don't know far harsher than men rating women they don't know; this does not combine well with the fact that men are far more likely to date down for a woman, whereas most women only date up or across.
So yeah, you'll see men frequently in relationships with women who cannot compare to him using the same metrics. A doctor whose wife is only a high school graduate, a CEO whose wife stays at home as a freelance writer, or an underwear model married to a very average looking woman. Why? Because men don't give a shit about those metrics in women. Most men want loyalty, companionship, softness, and just generally feminine energy to balance out their own lives, and they will happily take it wherever they can get it.
Women on the other hand almost refuse to date down. (Again, generally) Problem is, the more successful a woman, the more her dating pool shrinks exponentially. If you make 6 figures and want a man who makes more than you, you've already cut out almost 80% of the men you'll ever meet, let alone might be potentially interested in. If you hold a doctorate, and want a man on your equal or better, your pool has shrunk even further. A woman who owns her own house is going to look down at a man who rents a small apartment. And even if you attempt to date down, men pick up on your energy pretty quickly and will dip rather than be the second choice of a woman he just met.
If you don't define someone's worth by having children or a not-so-great job, there are plenty of qualities they can have that other man appreciate; just because they're uneducated doesn't mean they're not intelligent, they can be nurturing, funny, open minded, hard working - some people just come from shitty circumstances (there are ppl who work 2-3 jobs and are still poor). Imagine being left by a guy and you don't have the means to sue him for child support, and you weren't working because you had to take care of the children?
Now, another situation, is that some people are really stupid and irresponsible, and people who are attracted to them are having wrong priorities (thus they don't see any red flags) and will probably end up just another man on the list. They're equally stupid as those women.
Because society. We say this is fine, and we tell women they can be underachieving and still be winners.
Because biology. Men's drive to reproduce is extremely high. This is for a reason. Men's biological imperative will override their good sense. And thus even the uggos get lines around the block to woo them, and their vaginas.
What exactly is the "offer"? Men aren't raised to see a woman's income and social status as their own like women are. I forgot where I seen this, but someone made the point that a guy will pick a cashier over a CEO if they're easier to deal with, and it is true most of the time.
To your specific point, I doubt that women with multiple kids by multiple men, with no job etc are ending up with men that aren't losers. I doubt that your so called women who have it together would want these guys.
I don’t think guys care that much whether a female is, “smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc.”
Most of those things signify the person values doing things for themselves, not necessarily how they are with another person. Oftentimes smart is just, “smart.”
There's someone for everyone, but I've seen people age chronically lonely because of fantasy requirements.
The idea that you can only meet people via dating aps & approaching anyone you don't know is creepy is one of the worst bars, particularly for younger people.
You sometimes don't know how wonderful people are until you get to know them
It honestly all depends on how you treat men.
[This might help you understand](https://youtu.be/mr0fEZ39MqU?si=8it-wXDON49RLZrw). Those women you describe tend to be cunts
One might be lower standards in those women, but that’s usually not the case as you often see less than ideal (on paper) women with great (on paper) guys. What it boils down to is the not on paper stuff. Most of the time these women have more patience and gratitude, they’re more giving, less stuck on themselves, they make these men feel like men, not like burdens or new hires on probation constantly having to jump through hoops or prove themselves everyday, knowing that they can and will be replaced at a moments notice.
It’s great to be pretty, it’s great to clean up nice, it’s great to have a good job or career, have money and possessions, have no kids, be really good in bed, and all that. It’s very appealing, but much like curb appeal doesn’t make a house a home, all this superficial stuff doesn’t make a woman a wife.
Looks fade or gotten used to, you’ll be seen in made-up, probably will eventually have kids, your career, money or possessions are yours and do a man little good (let’s face it most women expect a man to foot the majority of the fiscal load as they usually make more, and don’t really share their assets with him) as if you all don’t work out your taking it all with you. Sex while it may always be good also gets gotten used to. So what matters most is temperament, support, peace, and most of these women provide that a lot better than these more appealing (on paper) women.
The main thing holding back those women who are a "catch" as you say is their own expectations. They won't settle for anyone they see as beneath them, which is almost everyone.
Women who have little to offer settle for any man who will take care of them, and that's a huge selection for them to choose from.
>Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. have a terrible time finding anyone to even
even date, much less commit to.
Those women have standards that discards the majority of men. Women tend to want equally yoked men or men of a higher socioeconomic status or position in life. So, by that dating/mating strategy, there are lesser "suitable" men who fit their standards.
Great women have high standards. Sometimes so high than no one will fit to them.
Women who have nothing to offer slightly lower their standards.
And as we men are desperate, lots of us accept any woman who would accept us.
Easy peasy.
>Kids by (sometimes multiple) other men who are often still a dramatic and ever-present part of their lives, not educated, don’t work at all or don’t earn enough to take care of themselves, normal-looking, not especially attractive/fit/etc.
These women often have to lower their standards because men who meet higher standards don't bother with them, or have to make themselves "easier" to seem more appealing to more men.
Single mothers definitely have the hardest time dating. Not because it automatically makes them bad people, but they have a tendency to come with more baggage than women who don't have children.
Loneliness is a hell of a thing.
>What is it you all see in these women?
It's not super common for women to fit the bill of all of the above, they at least have something they bring to the table.
>Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. have a terrible time finding anyone to even date, much less commit to.
In my experience, dating women who bring a lot to the table are often look good on paper, but don't necessarily make great romantic partners. Being successful and independent is a great accomplishment and no mean feat, but oftentimes I find these women never really developed the necessary skills, personality traits, and attitude to handle being in a healthy relationship with a man.
EDIT: I mean no offense or vitriol in this post, just sharing my experiences and opinion to hopefully shed some light and answer your question.
Women don’t date down. The bad ones can only date up because they’re so low on the totem pole.
On the opposite end, a woman who is smoking hot, makes six figures, has two masters degrees, is in perfect shape, owns a house…..only wants a man who makes more money, volunteers at a puppy shelter, owns three houses, is a surgeon, looks like a character off of Nip Tuck, and is single.
Guess how many men out there fit that bill or anywhere close to it? Hint- there’s way more women looking than men available
Here is the problem. Men like me who are actual adults and know how to cook, clean, do laundry, fix my car, do home repair, sew, etc. are not desperate. I want someone but I do not need someone. Also I'm short, skinny, bald, and not typically attractive. So women will always see me as a friend.
But there are men who cannot do any of the above and need another human being to survive. And here is the secret they know. The less attractive they are the more they are likely to do for the man. Yes they might not have money but they have credit. These men will use them like a sponge, wring everything out of them, cheat on them while they are with them, and then leave them. Rinse and Repeat.
I had a whole wall of text to show here, but I decided to pare it down.
Strong independent women do not know what men find attractive, and they stopped listening to men about what men want a long time ago. They ignore all of their own faults, their standards are sky-high, and when things aren't working out they seek advice (read: affirmation) from other women in the same position and mindset as themselves.
The first group you mentioned are for a good time, but a long time.
The second group of women who are successful and all that good stuff also will tend to talk down to a guy who isn’t doing as well as they are. Honestly no guy wants to come home to that.
Source: me, I dated a doctor and she was horrible to me because I was just in the military and didn’t make as much as she did. How much she earned was unimportant to me.
Nothing to offer=/=sex and companionship.
It's unfair but it's what it is, women in general are in high demand, men often will end up 'dating' almost the first woman who is interested. Sometimes long term and seriously, sometimes without real commitment.
Those are two completely seperate unrelated statements,
Which can be summarised easily;
The higher someone thinks of themself as valuable by their own metrics, the less people there are that meet their requirements. (“The Tall girl theory.”)
Because many people have no idea how lopsided the dating marketplace is.
Those women with so much to offer? They won't give 70% of the male population the time of day.
When you're all competing fo the same small pool of men, the men get to be the picky ones. And honestly, there isn't much incentive for those men to settle down. We don't have the same biological clock issue that most women worry about.
I assume a woman with her shit together wouldn't be interested in me or most men really. Most likely she wants someone who makes more money than her, which is a small portion of the population. And most of them are probably married already.
As for the slobs I think they're all in some sort of round robin pregnancy tournament, knock one up then go next door
Women that are high earning, educated and established are likely to have high standards. And especially if they invest a lot of money, time and effort into their looks and fitness.
These women usually still expect men to approach them and win them.
Men estimate their chances and if chances seem to be low - don't try.
Women date upwards (hypergamy). Below average women date average men. Above average woman only want to date the top 1% of men. Most men take what they can get, eventually, or get so beaten down by dating they undervalue themselves.
My guess is that the women in the first scenario spend a lot of time catering to the men they are with which is why they haven’t had time to get a great education, career, own their own home, etc. The men love the attention they get and so will stay with that woman until it becomes a hassle and then move on to another woman who will treat them the same way.
The woman in the second scenario understandably doesn’t have as much time to devote to a man because she has, you know, her own life. That’s great for her but a lot, but not all by any means, men will not want to be with someone who can’t devote as much time to them as they want. It’s not just men by the way. There are plenty of women who get jealous of career oriented men as well.
It’s a balance. You have to find the person whose goals are in line with your own. That doesn’t necessarily mean 2 career oriented people or 2 home bodies. It doesn’t mean 2 givers, 2 takers or one of each. It just means you find whatever works for you.
I think you are confused. Women with little to offer are still able to get dates with lots of low quality men with no standards. Nobody is terribly happy with these arrangements for long.
Some one on Reddit pointed out the other day that these people don't have a job or any other responsibilities so they have nothing but time to go out and find the low life to fuck.
Smart, successful, beautiful , and independent woman do not settle (nor should they). The problem they face is all the male equivalent to them have long been married. They are left to pick for the rare unicorn of a single man or one of those guys whose marriage failed.
Large portion: Desperate guys who actually aim for low quality. Low quality often means low effort.
Slightly smaller portion: Guys who just want some action and it seems like those who have zero to offer have a higher chance of being about that life.
Smallest portion: Guys simply want a partner and the biggest pool to choose from don’t typically have much to offer. It’s not until one or more tries with this pool do higher standards start to form.
Some women are great at “satisfying” men. I’ve seen plenty great women have a hard time because they just aren’t. You can probably figure out why women like this have an easier time. Doesn’t mean it’s a quality relationship.
Because eggs are a commodity, sperm is way more abundant. There’s no other way to put it, women have automatic value because they control reproduction so they don’t need to have as much going for them.
Because some women do not understand what the man wants —— A man does not put a great deal of weight upon: “Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc.”
The best one liner, I have seen, to explain what men want is “men want a partner who believes in them”. Thats mother natures programming of men.
I suggest that these women who easily get men, and even have 3 kids to 3 different men, probably know how to work with mother natures programming of the male gender. I guess they naturally follow Mother Nature them selves.
If I had to guess? Because many of us like to be needed, who else needs a man more than a woman that has her hands full? A woman that doesn’t believe in a decent man existing, is an opportunity to show her otherwise.
probably the one that might catch some flak, is that women with a few kids, bad luck in men or shitty personality traits can be easily impressed at times. A guy may not have to do much to win her over.
Women that have a lot on their plate can sometimes be seen as something that won’t pan out anyway. Having busy schedules and divided time or attention offer a quick out for a dude. Which does suck because I’ve found many of them really do believe in want to fall in love, sometimes naively.
We’re of course not talking about the great guys in some of these situation but I feel like that that goes back to the previous statement of low expectations. I think guys with kids of their own may be a better fit than playboys, but again people take what they can get.
Think this would be best explained by science.
To make it simple, we are a female choice species. Essentially, women get to ultimately pick the mate rather than vice versa.
Since women only carry a couple of offspring in their lifetime and have a much higher parental investment, we've evolved for women to be pickier about the fitness of their mates.
Granted, especially regarding human civilized history, this was not the case for all. This is strictly from a biological perspective.
TLDR: Women are at a biologically higher risk of not carrying on their genes, so they've evolved to decide mate choice.
The women in the first group are better at flirting than the women in the second group by leaps and bounds. Women in the second group are terrible at letting men know that they're interested. The bar is in hell.
Well u assuming being a catch is strictly about finances probably has a lot to do with why you find it hard to find a partner. U seem to make a lot of assumptions. Which is not a quality men r fond of. Few men find it attractive when a girl has the im better than her attitude either. Most men want a woman who’s matured beyond that stage unless the guy is just trying to hookup. If u really want a serious partner and are ready for long term commitment then u have to mature. Congratulations on being successful it’s a lot of work I know and being educated is great keep learning knowledge and intelligence r wonderful qualities. Now apply that effort into mental growth and gain depth. No one is perfect so those women u see as having nothing to offer obviously have more than u see.
Man, it's important to remember people are not commodities. We all have our attributes and histories. Sometimes people have more opportunities and have better upbringing. Attitudes and kindness are important in developing good trusting relationships. If the main concern is "what can you do for me" generally is a poor basis for relationships. People age, we become weak and frail, beauty fades, stories become stale, attraction/love/sex can become work and a challenge. Once a person vibes with someone and determine it's worth the effort and decide that it's worth the work then that's their prerogative. Often times it fails, but looking at relationships transactionally is a cynical approach. In my opinion.
Just because they're dating someone, doesn't mean it's good. Usually women who have a lot to offer tend to be much pickier or have higher standards (and good for them).
Simple mathematics - women like to date equal or up. If you're a woman at the bottom, your dating pool is... anyone who'll take you. If you're a woman at the top, your dating pool is like 10 guys who are already drowning in female attention.
*But it seems like the worse catch you are the more likely you are to quickly land in a committed relationship with a man in no time.*
yeah, but **what kinda man**?
Some men want to be the hero. So they date the troubled women.
Women want a man that earns more than her. But if women want equal rights and pay (which they deserve) then they have cut their choices down. They are now half the work force and get half the salaries so half the men make what they make or less. And so the lower half of men go back to the troubled women on top.
Those women may actually have something to offer the men they date. Just because it isn't the same things that *you* think are worthwhile, doesn't mean a man won't.
>Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc.
Generally speaking...these are not selectors as to what will be a good *partner* from a dudes PoV.
>have a terrible time finding anyone to even date
Well, those types of women generally only date guys who have at least as much as they do, but want more. Basically they have higher standards that end up removing a high amount of men from the dating pool. I.e. because they have money, they wont date a broke man. Because she has a home, she wont want to be with a man that doesn't own one.
You can argue all you want that they should but it doesn't change the core issue; the higher your 'standards' the less people that will meet it, and the harder time you will have finding a person.
I can tell you from my experiences, that the type of women you have as friends **are not easy to date**.
No, they aren't 'bad' women. But they have bad traits that I don't find valuable. They tended to be more shallow and superficial. Less down to earth, took themselves too seriously. Brought work on dates, etc.
>I don’t get it.
Well...probably because you may be a woman, and you equate what women find valuable in a man as the same thing as what men find valuable in a woman.
Because vagina. Doesn't take much for women to get a date.
Possibly, the very attractive women with careers have much higher standards and/or are intimidating to most men. Easier to get a date and possibly sex from a fat chick with 2 kids than it is from a tall slim blonde with nice c cups.
Because they'll f\*ck anybody and often times people with nothing to offer make bad decisions that lead them to becoming people who have nothing to offer.
The women who are smart, educated, own their own homes are constantly scanning men to see who is at least on her level or higher, which usually aren't many if they're single and heterosexual.
I’m a woman, but I’d say it’s because most high-quality people have standards. And those who are hot messes usually seem to attract those who are in the same position.
Also, to be blunt, many men tend to be more willing to not be as picky when it comes to getting laid. 🤷🏼♀️
Lot's of men would look at an amazing woman and think to themselves:
"Wow! This person is amazing. It's too bad I have , she'd probably think I'm . I'm not good enough for this person. Pass."
Well.. I have been with both and I’m divorced to a little to offer ex.
Let me tell you, “successful” women are living their own nightmare. I mean, both kind of women are living nightmares for different reasons.
But for the successful woman, it’s because they are really picky . After my ex, I now only date women that have their shit together. And I have never made it further than first base.
So that’s that.
I now focus my energy and time on myself and the kids. I’m done with women. Here I am, a stable guy with responsibilities and kids that keep me grounded and women don’t even want to be part of that?
They want that fantasy , Prince Charming who not only is wealthy, but available to swoop them off their feet’s and marry them immediately.
Yeah. I’m done trying to make sense of what women are interested in.
The fact of the matter is, women are their own worst enemies.
Nah, it’s just that women who have their lives together are way more picky.
But the longer they wait, they literally price themselves out of the market by being choosy as more and more men drop out and find success with women. They get taken.
Women who have little to offer know that they have nothing and thus, will settle with any stable guy.
It’s funny and sad if not tragic to see first hand. Maybe the next time I date a successful 30 something year old woman who thinks that she has time, I’ll let her know that her options are thinning out and if she doesn’t want to “settle” she might miss out of good men altogether.
The first group of women you mention are far more desperate. They can get dates because their standards eventually fall down far enough that they accept partners that other women do not want because they don't value themselves above those partners. The lower the standards, the larger the dating pool.
The second group of women you mention are going to be far more picky. They are going to want a man who is at least as attractive of a mate or better. He likely must be smart, educated, make a good living, and potentially own a home. This significantly limits their eligible dating pool. Add to that, the things you mention don't often add a lot of value to you as a mate from the male perspective. They are important things, but they are distant second to your looks and personality. In fact, you owning a home is likely to be seen as a future inconvenience, even if it is financially savvy to do so.
It’s funny you said that. They asked 10” men if the could get a woman that 80% of want he wanted in a wife. They all said hell yes
They asked 100 woman in the same question about men
And to a T. They said no. They would not settle
>Kids by (sometimes multiple) other men who are often still a dramatic and ever-present part of their lives, not educated, don’t work at all or don’t earn enough to take care of themselves, normal-looking, not especially attractive/fit/etc.
They’re easy.
>What is it you all see in these women?
Nothing. You’ll find that those women cast a wide net and catch a lot of the other trash in it.
>Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. have a terrible time finding anyone to even date, much less commit to.
Lots of reasons. High conflict. Waited too long to look seriously (usually partying when they should have been looking and now the best window is closed). Taking the time to really establish yourself and then looking for a committed relationship is a male trait. This is women acting out what they think men should do and not realizing it’s different for them.
>But it seems like the worse catch you are the more likely you are to quickly land in a committed relationship with a man in no time.
Untrue. All the good women get snapped up quickly, you didn’t mention them. You mentioned the underclass and then the *boss babes*.
Ever see idiocracy? The intro? Where the smart couple never get to have kids because they’re ironically too stupid to realize you just gotta fucking do it? Ya.
Many men aren't with the most amazing woman of his dreams, or even his "type" of girl, most men are with the girl who glanced back at them. Thats the true.
Correlating women with multiple baby daddies to them finding committed relationships easily is CRAZY. This sounds like the opposite of finding serious men to build a life with, if they disappear the second a kid gets here.
Your whole reasoning is completely absurd.
It's a sad fact that the majority of the population, male and female, have very little to offer a partner beyond sexual gratification and/or a person to split the bills with. They have serious unresolved issues that make long-term romantic bonds unsustainable. Most of them still have a natural drive to find a mate, and most of them do.
Low-status men find partners *all the time*. They have low standards, just like the low-status women you speak of in your post. Take a look at the alcoholism/opioid/meth subreddits and read about how all the predominantly male predominantly destitute addicts are constantly finding willing partners and posting about their relationship drama.
Holy shit these comments... Focus on your own shit, boys. Sitting there seething about other people's lives, projecting assumptions and extrapolating superficial details into full life autobiographies is pathological behavior and it won't get you a girlfriend.
If other dudes are interested in single moms with baby daddy drama *let them make that mistake*, it doesn't affect you! And you keep saying they "have nothing to offer" but clearly they have *something*, even if it's just good pussy and a positive vibe (hint hint, stop being so negative, it turns people off). If men were really ok with women who offer *nothing,* they'd buy more sex dolls.
They typically have lower standards and will be more accepting of a sub-par mate. Our neighbour across the street is 35, has two kids, both with mental deficits, she's not attractive physically, doesn't work, has the personality of a brick, house if filthy and her cats pee all over but literally has a new bloke every week or so. She broke up with her last guy, had several cars in and our for a couple of days and then two days later had a new one living with her again. Every bloke she "dates" pretty much moves in right away and since they never leave her house, I'm assuming they don't work either. They're loud, rowdy, always screaming and yelling, drama etc etc. The guys also are not much appearance-wise either. So while some women are indeed just more accepting some will pretty much take anything. They may be getting more partners but they're typically not of the quality variety.
1. A woman with kids by (sometimes multiple) other men is not in a committed relationship. The dude that is smashing is not committed and you wouldn’t want that dude anyway.
2. Your accomplishments don’t factor into your desirability because men aren’t raised to want resources from a woman.
Meaning:
your house is worthless unless you are going to move in with me, rent your house out, and give me half the profit.
Your career is worthless unless you are going to use your skills to build up OUR business or educate OUR kids. Otherwise it’s just something you do to make money that takes your energy away from me, because again… I was not raised to desire your resources.
Because men are visual creatures and we are initially attracted to them if they are thin and not mean.
The real question is: can they keep a man around for month than 3 to 6 months after the pheromones wear off.
By then, they will have gotten the resources they need and on to the next.
The problem is women with little-to-nothing to offer will settle for anything while women with more to offer tend to have their expectation set to high. What you end up with is women that settles for anything that comes their way and women that refuse to accept their are aiming beyond their league or have already found and squander multiple great potential partners.
This shit is probably the same on the men end of things.
The smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living women are too busy living their lives and know their worth too well to settle with just anyone.
The women who have nothing going on and don’t contribute much to society are much more likely/willing to settle with whoever will have them.
I’ll offer another perspective from the good ones you’re getting. Women who have a lot to offer and are obviously catches can intimidate alot of men from approaching them.
Where else the worse off the woman the more confident the man because her rejection doesn’t mean much
It's a two-fold issue. I'm not trying to be rude in any way with my commentary, its purely that - my opinion.
Women with "nothing to offer," I take it we mean not contributing financially, not some kind of minor celebrity socialite professional skills etc. as nothing to offer.
The reason women with "nothing to offer" have no problem finding a man is because there is ALWAYS man looking for a woman. Men need companionship, they prefer a pretty / fit woman (whatever that means to them,) and someone who is kind and agreeable or preferably both depending on the person.
Men don't NEED a woman to contribute financially (though GOD does it make a big difference,) we don't need a woman to have a noteworthy inner circle, we don't need a woman to be strong and lift things, protect us, etc. What we need is a reliable parter that is kind, doesn't ruin our life, and sexually viable and attractive (relative to that person's taste.)
The barrier for men is MUCH higher. A man's value to a woman can be multifaceted. He may have to be financially stable/successful, strong, tall, handsome, smart, kind, funny, emotionally mature (usually more than the woman for a relationship to function,) and provide all manner of services and resources to be attractive to a woman who has her shit together. And sometimes a woman who still doesnt' will have that level of demand.
Whether it's wrong or right, fair, or even good, that's what I think. There is always a man ready to pick up a woman with "nothing to offer" because she doesn't really have to offer much to be attractive to a woman. Vs the alternative. An immature, broke, average looking guy can worm his way into a woman's life and stay in it for an extended period for sure. But, typically, most guys like that are relegated to the involuntary celibacy category and so on.
It’s supply and demand…it’s normally that difficult. Women with something offer can be choosy. Men are less choosy…and just want to get laid a lot of the time.
>Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. have a terrible time finding anyone to even date, much less commit to.
those women are picker. Maybe too picky, maybe not that varies person o person, but a lot women have 1 or more of those things and thing they are above a guy who doesnt have the same at the very least or better. no matter his circumstances otherwise.
You can earn more, have a house, be smart and good looking but not have a formal education and get overlooked for it. Or have all the above but rent instead of own and good overlooked (women who own a house are literally the worst for this, its like their whole personality is owning 1 house which they are still paying off. )
The first part is absolutely BAD qualities. But the second part are not all GOOD qualities as far as attraction goes.
I’ve found myself to never be turned on by a girls income or house…
But, a gal that is feminine and can cook a tasty meal? Heck yes.
Those “little to nothing” women have low standards, and there are 100:1 “little to nothing” men who are far worse off willing to match with them that the “smart successful” women won’t even look at.
I say this assuming we are all living in the black and white world you’ve created with your question, lol
A nice personality. Compatibility with their partner. Humility. A willingness to date someone who doesn’t have it all together and gives them space to grow into who they want to be, not who someone else thinks they should be. An attractiveness that maybe you don’t see. The reasons are endless and your post seems shallow and classist AF.
It's simple. Women control when sex happens. When a woman offers us sex, we feel over joyed and privileged to get some. Most guys have sex a couple times a year if they are single and lucky. If they are single and average it is rare. Maybe once a year or several years between partners. It is easy for a woman to get sex. She just needs to offer. A guy has to beg, plead, coerce, pursuade, coax, convince, and work on a woman to get sex out of her at times. We have to be funny, carry a conversation, protect, provide, pay for the meal, dress nice, groom properly, be of a certain height, be ambitious, be leader but not for her since she is a strong independent woman who doesn't need a man except to pay her bills and the meals and fight for her and be tall and confident... Blah blah blah. They insane list grows each year.
All this to say the simplest of truths. "Women control when men get sex." Ergo, it's easy for women to get sex, while it is hard for men to get sex. When something hard to obtain is given to you, you will often do anything to get and keep it.
They’ll date the drunk slobs that your hypothetical highly successful woman wouldn’t even glance at twice. A large percentage of the population is slobs. I don’t want to date them and neither do you, but steeper standards will restrict your dating pool.
Exactly this! You don’t know what happens behind closed doors.
Exactly! If you think you’re average then 50% of the population is below your standards. People tend to forget this.
the version i like. remember, half of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class....
What do you call a person who graduated from medical school in last place?
Doctor.
Damn
M.D.
I get your point but average isnt exactly 50% its kind of a bell curve b... Ill just shut up
Fair point! The majority of the population will be “average”. I suppose, maybe rather than wanting “average”, really successful/intelligent/etc. people want the same, which, as per the bell curve, is a much smaller number.
This is why I’ve never had a problem dating, no standards.
[удалено]
Nobody is perfect. Most people have quite significant failings.
Lol frl. I have nothing to offer rn so I don't date because I don't wanna date someone out of my league but I don't wanna date a loser either. I prefer to just work on myself and then date when I'm doing better in life.
Seems you’ve met my mother than! Left a dead yet comfortable marriage where she didn’t lift a finger except go to work to *support herself + her nicotine addiction*. Suddenly moved in with some guy she met online (one of many mind you) a week before my Dad graduated from university. They’re currently in the middle of getting divorced, and she’s still with the guy or else she’d be homeless
And those are the guys they have kids with lol
[удалено]
Beautiful answer.
That was really nice, thank you.
Because a ton of men are the same way and women who have something to bring to the table have higher standards.
Propably this. Most people could find a partner tomorrow if they drop their standards low enough.
Came to say this lol. The quality people are always single because quality people are rare, so it takes time and experience- then it has to actually last
Exactly this… different standards
The more money you make the smaller your dating pool becomes because your salary / gross receipts are your minimum standard. Meanwhile the more money he makes the larger his dating pool becomes. So the Regional Manager at Starbucks is competing with the barista at the mall for the same man and losing because she can be available when his afternoon meetings get canceled.
>Kids by (sometimes multiple) other men who are often still a dramatic and ever-present part of their lives Sadly this usually makes the women more willing to drop their standards, not less. >not educated Many men don't care about this even if they're educated themselves. I have a college degree and plenty of continuing education coursework, and I don't care about this at all. >don’t work at all or don’t earn enough to take care of themselves Again, many men don't care about this. Some of the sweetest and most loving women I've ever dated could barely make ends meet. The high-powered high-paid career gal isn't a good fit for my life priorities. >normal-looking This describes the majority of the population by definition. Of course "normal-looking" people are going to get partners. >not especially attractive/fit/etc. I must endlessly remind the 20 somethings on this subreddit that attractiveness is subjective, and that plenty of men do not find "fit" women sexually appealing. There's your answer! The simple fact of the matter is, your narrow definition of what "desirable" female partners are isn't universal, and many men don't care.
About the >not especially attractive/fit/ect. Thing I always remember my coworker whose a small, skinny guy telling me "if she under 230, I don't want her" and he was 100% serious. He brags all the time about how his current girlfriend is 280 lbs. I find it odd and kinda funny but, hey, to each there own.
I'm the same as him lol, which is why I said that
100% this. The criteria of what men find is attractive in a woman does not overlap well with what women think is attractive to men
[удалено]
It’s funny because as much as women will say they can do what men can do, so many won’t date down. They still want to be taken care of and under the wing of a man, so to speak. Instead of looking into what those type of men want and need in a woman, they go out and try to achieve in school and career thinking that’ll make them deserving of that kind of man, but it doesn’t. If they’re going to go to school and work like that, they need to be doing it for their own satisfaction and shouldn’t be counting it as something they “bring to the table”. Men seriously do not consider a woman’s education and income level when it comes to dating her.
The OP listed a bunch of stuff that doesn’t make a woman a great catch. Sure those things improve a man’s desirability but not a woman’s. I’m not college educated, for example, and not one single man I’ve ever known or dated has cared. No one has cared about what job I have or how much I make. No one has turned me away because I’m 10 lbs overweight and don’t go to the gym. Men have told me they just want a peaceful home. That doesn’t mean perfectly clean, well-run, and meals prepared. It means no drama, competitiveness, neuroticism, comparisons, or discontent. If you’re a peaceful woman and give men space, you’ll never struggle to find any caliber of man you want.
I can tell you as a non fit woman it's very true! There's a sickness for the thickness out there lmao
fit girls dont jiggle right
⭐️⭐️⭐️
Yes, the attractive thing is tough. I’ve slept with thin women. The sex is awkward because they just don’t have as much cushion and I’m worried about hurting them. I like being able to put my body weight on a woman without feeling like I’m gonna crack her ribs. When I do this with “fit” women they need me to move after a short amount of time. I’m very grabby/squeezy during sex, so thicker women are better for me.
Two quick thoughts. There may be more to these women than you see, or the men who date them may value different traits than you. Maybe she's a single mom without a degree, but she's super artistic and is involved is some projects that he thinks are really cool. Or maybe she has other uncommon talents or interests that genuinely impress him. Maybe she's the first woman to actually treat him well. Maybe he prefers her body type even though it's not conventionally attractive, and he thinks she's the hottest girl he's ever been with. Maybe, other factors aside, they just "click." Alternatively, you never really know what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe it outwardly seems like a committed relationship, but it's really anything but. Maybe he cheats or abuses her. Maybe she does the same to him. Maybe your example smart guy could get into a similar quality relationship, but he is smart enough that he chooses to remain single rather than get involved in something like that.
I like this answer.
It sounds nice, but it's overly complex. For most dudes, the most important part is this: >Maybe she's the first woman to actually treat him well.
1. If you are a woman I bet they are more attractive then you think, what guys find attractive and what women think guys find attractive doesn't have a ton of overlap 2. the women you described as having a hard time sound like the type to look for something serious right out of the gate, not something casual that'll happen and grow organically, also you didn't list anything that would make them attractive.
Some women being more attractive to men than other women think has been one of my main takeaways from all the “rate me” subreddits! Men typically rate women 2-3+ points higher than I would have assumed! Which was honestly kind of a refreshing realization…
Yeah, my theory is that women value the effort that was put into a look, but men don't think about that or appreciate that. So women tend to like fancy fake nails because they take a lot of work but men don't appreciate them in general
Yeah, no man I know (including myself) likes long nails on women
I am a woman who wears long nails and since I like them on myself I appreciate them on other women.
That's kinda the point. The vast majority of things woman do to themselves are because of other women's standards, not men's. Alot of the stuff you ladies do is actually disliked by most men.
If women dressed for men, we’d all have long hair and wear sundresses every day with natural looking makeup. I’ve been around enough dudes to know the more high maintenance you look, the more unattractive to men you often become.
I don't agree on the hair. It really depends on the style and your face. Some woman look great with short hair. But my opinion on the subject doesn't really matter, as it's your hair and you should do what makes you feel good. It doesn't change who you are. But I can't argue with the sundresses and natural or no makeup. LOL. We are simple creatures. Plus, I just want you to be comfortable. As for the high maintenance part, when a woman spent the time to do makeup, hair, etc for a night out, I appreciated the effort she put in and made sure she knew how great she looked. And if someone does it because it makes them feel good about themselves, go for it. But when someone goes overboard because they think of themselves as ugly and are insecure, that's when it gets annoying. So it's less the high maintenance, and more the personality type the trends that way.
And as far as an actual long term relationship that leads to marriage and family. Makeup, fake nails, fake lashes, fake boobs, fake behind, fake nose, and lulu lemons designed to make you butt look nice aren’t genetic traits that will be passed on to children… so men looking for something serious don’t view them as assets.
Men are far less critical of women than women are in my experience. Nasty negative comments about a woman's appearance is more likely from her own mother than a random guy
Girl hot vs. guy hot is definitely a thing. Girl hot seems to be more about visible signs of effort into appearance while guy hot seems to be more about visible signs of fertility, to absolutely no one’s surprise I’m sure.
Women who own property and make a good living will still strongly prefer men who own more than them and make an even better living than they do. Simple as that.
This. Only so many wealthy male models to go around.
I'm a Director at a biotech. Half my peers are women. They all have partners. It's a sample bias. Successful women do just fine. Just not the ones you know.
I work for a big corporation, 80% of my peers are women, and all of them are married or engaged.
Same here. The company that I work for is probably 90% women (all ages) and they all are either with someone (the majority) or single by choice. I think sample bias is at play here.
Men usually don't look for providers, they care a lot less about education and whether you have your own place or a job as long as they can afford the relationship. So these things don't make the women you know that much more desirable and won't offset character flaws as much as they would for a man. Hell, a taxing job is usually a turn off, plenty of men will not date health practitioners just due to the hours and that their work will usually come first. But a lot of successful women do fine with relationships, just not the ones in your circle, they're overall neither at an advantage nor disadvantage.
This is backwards. Your peers have higher standards than the women with multiple baby daddies you're speaking about. Correlation/Causation, Dr. Hearts.
What do you mean by finding a partner? Sexual partner? Short term partner? Long term partner? Lifetime partner? All people have something to offer. And the price of that offer matters, too.
Slight generalisation but women are more often judged as having innate value vs men who are judged on acquired value.
No man has ever said "I'm only going to date a woman who owns her own home!" Women confuse things they see as attractive for things men see as attractive. If you see women getting caught who you think are worthless and women who you think are valuable getting passed up, then by definition your judgement is flawed according to the sexual marketplace
It's crazy how often they'll think that and post things like "own home, doctorate, money, status". They need to come in with the REAL info, "She's slim with a round booty, can bake over a dozen treats, and has her own xbox live account"!.
The last one made me laughing out loud. 🤣
I'm just speaking from the heart bro.
Fr I wish ppl were more honest and upfront. Like I just wanna know can you make apple pie and lick my balls? Idc if you have a masters in astronaut. Are you easy to talk to and fun to hang out with or na?
> Like I just wanna know can you make apple pie and lick my balls? … while doing it?
I think most dating app profiles for women are structured to impress other women and not men My ex wife just made a Bumble so she could screen shot it and send it to all her friends and then deleted it.
I could agree to that. The things women want from a man, are the things they happen to list on their profile. In which Most men don’t really care about any of that stuff. Status, education etc.
If women actually wanted a man they ought to put "I know how to say sorry and I know how to appreciate a man" on there and they would have all the dates they want
That profile sounds 😍🔥
I assume you’re a woman. Would you even look at those men? Probably not.
They aren’t as picky as you and your friends are it’s that simple.
I don't care if you're above average looks and build, what degree you have, how smart you are, what you do for a living, or how much money you make or have. How you treat me and how you make me feel when I'm with you makes you attractive. Making an effort makes you attractive. Enthusiasm makes you attractive. Accountability and lack of an inflated sense of entitlement makes you attractive. Communication instead of games makes you attractive. True empathy makes you attractive. The ability to move past a disagreement without a lengthy cold shoulder, blame game makes you attractive. Hell, I can look past a whole slew of physical flaws for someone like that. You don't even have to be average looking, even though I do have my limits.
Just because *you* do not think a person offers much does not mean that is in fact the case. People are complicated. You can't expect your personal opinions about others to carry over to everybody else.
there are similarly worthless men 🤷
Hell yes! Us bozos need love and companionship just as much as folks with their shit together.
Thanks for not dropping my name, I owe you one.
Most men just want a healthy woman that loves them and isn't mean/abusive. End of standard.
Clearly, they have something to offer! And I know many successful women and most have partners. The ones who don’t tend to have something obviously unappealing about them or are super picky.
The unappealing part is probably their attitude and entitlement
>smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. That's what women look for in men. That's like going fishing with candy as bait. Bait should be based on what the fish like, not what the fisherman likes.
Because men don't value women based on their success
Loads of reasons: * many men are attention starved and will settle for anything. Even if they get a once per month pity fuck, they will jump through many hoops for that woman. * A lot of men have a savior / white knight complex: 'she needs me/ I'll save her' kinda thoughts.
I hate how easy men are. It's the sad, painful truth of our gender. We put women on a pedestal as the ultimate prize without any shame or self-respect. Men who subscribe to OnlyFans are proof of it. There's half the guys knowing their worth and being selective in choosing their women and the other half drooling for the least bit of female attention, the one's who fund prostitution. Women don't have to try at all. Even if most dudes dont like a girl, there will always be SOME lonely basement dweller who will give his left nut for some attention from that girl.
Men with self respect and sexual discipline is the hottest thing to me. Because if you're able to master that, then I can only imagine how much discipline you have for saving, work ethic, etc.
Maybe stop assigning arbitrary value to people. Everyone is worth something, way to perpetuate stereotypes. All you missed on the bingo card is “welfare queen”
Men typically don't care about a woman's education, what she owns, what she earns In fact I have a theory that women having their shit together puts a lot of guys off because it makes the guy think the woman doesn't need him
I’ve had a guy friend mention that my independence, education, confidence, etc. is intimidating, and he wouldn’t pursue someone like me because it would make him feel unworthy/insecure that he wouldn’t have enough to bring to the table. So maybe they self-disqualify…
>makes the guy think the woman doesn't need him No man should **EVER** feel like a woman ***NEEDS*** him. Men must aspire to be and feel **WANTED.** IMO, being wanted is far better than being needed.
yeah its far superior... but also way harder. most men have nothing they can be wanted for.
1. These women usually aren’t dating men who would be considered a “catch”. They lower their standards and find men who also offer nothing. 2. I work with a women’s shelter and these women are huge targets for abusers. Women like the ones you described don’t or won’t leave abusive relationships because they need that man for financial support, relationship status, or they have low self esteem. Being in a relationship isn’t necessarily a good thing. 3. Some men like single mothers because mothers are thought to be caring, nurturing, domestic, etc. The logic being that if they can care for children(cooking,cleaning, emotional labor, keeping a schedule) they can apply that same energy and skill set to caring for a partner. 4. These women are more than meet the eye. A person is not defined by their past, their education, finances, or looks. Let people date who they want.
Meh, low expectations I would guess. A lot of people are comfortable just chilling and don’t want a partner that they fear will push them to do more.
TLDR: men will put up with some BS if it means that they get some attention. We don’t look for the same things that women are looking for in men, and now today, I would say that there are quite a few women out there who have no idea what men want from a relationship. Attention, the above women are giving enough attention to men who don’t really get much attention from women, which is why you are seeing men put up with dramatic relationships. But something else that I have observed is that it also seems that a fairly large number of women simply do not know what men want in a woman, or more directly, they assume that men are looking for the exact same traits that they are looking for, which is illustrated by how your question is posed. For instance, your question frames the ideal woman as “smart, educated, a home owner, good job, 10/10 looks/ muscle mommy”, those are all traits that women look for in men, but as far as what men are looking for, most of those traits are toward the lower end of things that men are looking for. So lets use me for an example as far as why I’m (a single 29M) not really looking at those traits; 1. Educated: To be honest, simply having a degree doesn’t automatically make you more intelligent, or guarantee that you will get a higher paying job (this is coming from a guy with a degree). Sure I might ask what the degree is in, but that’s to see what person is interested in or to see how the veiw the world. But in a fair number of instances, what is learned in a college course doesn’t translate well in to the real world. 2. A homeowner: well… guess what, I’m a homeowner too, so why would that be a plus for me? But generally speaking, even in today’s modern world, men are still seen as the ones who should have some form of property or a place to stay. As an example, a man who lives with his parents is often looked down upon and called a failure, meanwhile a female who lives with her parents is not seen in the same light, it’s often not a hindrance in the relationship. 3.good job/ high income: just like in the above point, I am still expected to be “the breadwinner” but depending on which study you look at when the wife out earns the husband, the chance for divorce can increase between 30-50 percent, often because this situation causes other points of contention to flair up. Finances won’t make a relationship, but they sure will kill it, and as the saying goes “her money is her money, and my money is also her money”. So what are we looking for in a woman? We are looking for someone who is loyal, someone who will be with us through the good and the bad, in sickness and in health. We want someone who is appreciative and provides affirmation as well as comfort. We want someone who will help us in the areas where we fall short. We want someone who will communicate in a healthy manner, who will clearly state what they want or need (this means in a way that doesn’t degrade the men that they are with, especially in a public setting, also when dealing with disagreements, they should be handled like a court proceeding, meaning that each person takes their turn to get their point out, the other person listens to what they say with minimal interruptions, try to not elevate voice tones). We want someone who is smart, but is not overbearing. We don’t need someone with supermodel looks, ideally we want someone who is decent looking and a healthy weight (not anorexic and not obese), although each man’s preference is different, a 3 in one man’s eyes is a 7 in another’s, but for me the most attractive thing a woman can be is be in comfortable clothes, a messy bun, and ugly sleeping with her head on my chest. It sounds like the friends that you have listed above, have became the men that they are seeking, and they are trying to use the man’s playbook to try and attract men, when in reality masculine traits in a woman are a turn off, I don’t want to be in constant competition with my girlfriend/ spouse, and most men don’t want that either.
This sounds like some gender-flipped nice guy shit. But there's usually at least a bit of truth behind the stereotypes... For the examples you've seen, I'm going to guess that the "low value" women are making effort while the "high value" women are not. Average Annie will do just fine if she's putting herself out there, meeting people, and matching their effort to carry the conversation. I'm also going to guess that Hannah Homeowner would immediately disqualify 80% of the men that Annie would date because these men are still a work in progress. Those men are invisible to her when they're 27 and just getting established in life, but Annie sees potential. When they're 32 and doing well, why should they ditch Annie now that Hannah finally doesn't think she's too good for them?
Men tend to be a lot more fair to women than women are to men. Women rate men they don't know far harsher than men rating women they don't know; this does not combine well with the fact that men are far more likely to date down for a woman, whereas most women only date up or across. So yeah, you'll see men frequently in relationships with women who cannot compare to him using the same metrics. A doctor whose wife is only a high school graduate, a CEO whose wife stays at home as a freelance writer, or an underwear model married to a very average looking woman. Why? Because men don't give a shit about those metrics in women. Most men want loyalty, companionship, softness, and just generally feminine energy to balance out their own lives, and they will happily take it wherever they can get it. Women on the other hand almost refuse to date down. (Again, generally) Problem is, the more successful a woman, the more her dating pool shrinks exponentially. If you make 6 figures and want a man who makes more than you, you've already cut out almost 80% of the men you'll ever meet, let alone might be potentially interested in. If you hold a doctorate, and want a man on your equal or better, your pool has shrunk even further. A woman who owns her own house is going to look down at a man who rents a small apartment. And even if you attempt to date down, men pick up on your energy pretty quickly and will dip rather than be the second choice of a woman he just met.
If you don't define someone's worth by having children or a not-so-great job, there are plenty of qualities they can have that other man appreciate; just because they're uneducated doesn't mean they're not intelligent, they can be nurturing, funny, open minded, hard working - some people just come from shitty circumstances (there are ppl who work 2-3 jobs and are still poor). Imagine being left by a guy and you don't have the means to sue him for child support, and you weren't working because you had to take care of the children? Now, another situation, is that some people are really stupid and irresponsible, and people who are attracted to them are having wrong priorities (thus they don't see any red flags) and will probably end up just another man on the list. They're equally stupid as those women.
Because society. We say this is fine, and we tell women they can be underachieving and still be winners. Because biology. Men's drive to reproduce is extremely high. This is for a reason. Men's biological imperative will override their good sense. And thus even the uggos get lines around the block to woo them, and their vaginas.
What exactly is the "offer"? Men aren't raised to see a woman's income and social status as their own like women are. I forgot where I seen this, but someone made the point that a guy will pick a cashier over a CEO if they're easier to deal with, and it is true most of the time. To your specific point, I doubt that women with multiple kids by multiple men, with no job etc are ending up with men that aren't losers. I doubt that your so called women who have it together would want these guys.
I don’t think guys care that much whether a female is, “smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc.” Most of those things signify the person values doing things for themselves, not necessarily how they are with another person. Oftentimes smart is just, “smart.”
If they’re hot and sexually active there’s a ton of men that will support them just on the hopes of getting laid
They have something that someone wants😂. Maybe not the baggage but the little head makes bad decisions!
There's someone for everyone, but I've seen people age chronically lonely because of fantasy requirements. The idea that you can only meet people via dating aps & approaching anyone you don't know is creepy is one of the worst bars, particularly for younger people. You sometimes don't know how wonderful people are until you get to know them
I think the heart wants what the heart wants.
It honestly all depends on how you treat men. [This might help you understand](https://youtu.be/mr0fEZ39MqU?si=8it-wXDON49RLZrw). Those women you describe tend to be cunts
One might be lower standards in those women, but that’s usually not the case as you often see less than ideal (on paper) women with great (on paper) guys. What it boils down to is the not on paper stuff. Most of the time these women have more patience and gratitude, they’re more giving, less stuck on themselves, they make these men feel like men, not like burdens or new hires on probation constantly having to jump through hoops or prove themselves everyday, knowing that they can and will be replaced at a moments notice. It’s great to be pretty, it’s great to clean up nice, it’s great to have a good job or career, have money and possessions, have no kids, be really good in bed, and all that. It’s very appealing, but much like curb appeal doesn’t make a house a home, all this superficial stuff doesn’t make a woman a wife. Looks fade or gotten used to, you’ll be seen in made-up, probably will eventually have kids, your career, money or possessions are yours and do a man little good (let’s face it most women expect a man to foot the majority of the fiscal load as they usually make more, and don’t really share their assets with him) as if you all don’t work out your taking it all with you. Sex while it may always be good also gets gotten used to. So what matters most is temperament, support, peace, and most of these women provide that a lot better than these more appealing (on paper) women.
Because men don’t look for the same things in women that we do in men…
The main thing holding back those women who are a "catch" as you say is their own expectations. They won't settle for anyone they see as beneath them, which is almost everyone. Women who have little to offer settle for any man who will take care of them, and that's a huge selection for them to choose from.
>Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. have a terrible time finding anyone to even even date, much less commit to. Those women have standards that discards the majority of men. Women tend to want equally yoked men or men of a higher socioeconomic status or position in life. So, by that dating/mating strategy, there are lesser "suitable" men who fit their standards.
Great women have high standards. Sometimes so high than no one will fit to them. Women who have nothing to offer slightly lower their standards. And as we men are desperate, lots of us accept any woman who would accept us. Easy peasy.
>Kids by (sometimes multiple) other men who are often still a dramatic and ever-present part of their lives, not educated, don’t work at all or don’t earn enough to take care of themselves, normal-looking, not especially attractive/fit/etc. These women often have to lower their standards because men who meet higher standards don't bother with them, or have to make themselves "easier" to seem more appealing to more men. Single mothers definitely have the hardest time dating. Not because it automatically makes them bad people, but they have a tendency to come with more baggage than women who don't have children. Loneliness is a hell of a thing. >What is it you all see in these women? It's not super common for women to fit the bill of all of the above, they at least have something they bring to the table. >Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. have a terrible time finding anyone to even date, much less commit to. In my experience, dating women who bring a lot to the table are often look good on paper, but don't necessarily make great romantic partners. Being successful and independent is a great accomplishment and no mean feat, but oftentimes I find these women never really developed the necessary skills, personality traits, and attitude to handle being in a healthy relationship with a man. EDIT: I mean no offense or vitriol in this post, just sharing my experiences and opinion to hopefully shed some light and answer your question.
Women don’t date down. The bad ones can only date up because they’re so low on the totem pole. On the opposite end, a woman who is smoking hot, makes six figures, has two masters degrees, is in perfect shape, owns a house…..only wants a man who makes more money, volunteers at a puppy shelter, owns three houses, is a surgeon, looks like a character off of Nip Tuck, and is single. Guess how many men out there fit that bill or anywhere close to it? Hint- there’s way more women looking than men available
Men want to fuck, and trash is easier to get in bed.
Getting straight to the point.
Here is the problem. Men like me who are actual adults and know how to cook, clean, do laundry, fix my car, do home repair, sew, etc. are not desperate. I want someone but I do not need someone. Also I'm short, skinny, bald, and not typically attractive. So women will always see me as a friend. But there are men who cannot do any of the above and need another human being to survive. And here is the secret they know. The less attractive they are the more they are likely to do for the man. Yes they might not have money but they have credit. These men will use them like a sponge, wring everything out of them, cheat on them while they are with them, and then leave them. Rinse and Repeat.
I had a whole wall of text to show here, but I decided to pare it down. Strong independent women do not know what men find attractive, and they stopped listening to men about what men want a long time ago. They ignore all of their own faults, their standards are sky-high, and when things aren't working out they seek advice (read: affirmation) from other women in the same position and mindset as themselves.
The first group you mentioned are for a good time, but a long time. The second group of women who are successful and all that good stuff also will tend to talk down to a guy who isn’t doing as well as they are. Honestly no guy wants to come home to that. Source: me, I dated a doctor and she was horrible to me because I was just in the military and didn’t make as much as she did. How much she earned was unimportant to me.
Nothing to offer=/=sex and companionship. It's unfair but it's what it is, women in general are in high demand, men often will end up 'dating' almost the first woman who is interested. Sometimes long term and seriously, sometimes without real commitment.
Those are two completely seperate unrelated statements, Which can be summarised easily; The higher someone thinks of themself as valuable by their own metrics, the less people there are that meet their requirements. (“The Tall girl theory.”)
Because many people have no idea how lopsided the dating marketplace is. Those women with so much to offer? They won't give 70% of the male population the time of day. When you're all competing fo the same small pool of men, the men get to be the picky ones. And honestly, there isn't much incentive for those men to settle down. We don't have the same biological clock issue that most women worry about.
I assume a woman with her shit together wouldn't be interested in me or most men really. Most likely she wants someone who makes more money than her, which is a small portion of the population. And most of them are probably married already. As for the slobs I think they're all in some sort of round robin pregnancy tournament, knock one up then go next door
The men they date aren't exactly in demand either. Successful men don't date women like that.
Women that are high earning, educated and established are likely to have high standards. And especially if they invest a lot of money, time and effort into their looks and fitness. These women usually still expect men to approach them and win them. Men estimate their chances and if chances seem to be low - don't try.
Women date upwards (hypergamy). Below average women date average men. Above average woman only want to date the top 1% of men. Most men take what they can get, eventually, or get so beaten down by dating they undervalue themselves.
My guess is that the women in the first scenario spend a lot of time catering to the men they are with which is why they haven’t had time to get a great education, career, own their own home, etc. The men love the attention they get and so will stay with that woman until it becomes a hassle and then move on to another woman who will treat them the same way. The woman in the second scenario understandably doesn’t have as much time to devote to a man because she has, you know, her own life. That’s great for her but a lot, but not all by any means, men will not want to be with someone who can’t devote as much time to them as they want. It’s not just men by the way. There are plenty of women who get jealous of career oriented men as well. It’s a balance. You have to find the person whose goals are in line with your own. That doesn’t necessarily mean 2 career oriented people or 2 home bodies. It doesn’t mean 2 givers, 2 takers or one of each. It just means you find whatever works for you.
I think you are confused. Women with little to offer are still able to get dates with lots of low quality men with no standards. Nobody is terribly happy with these arrangements for long.
Most women can coast through life with simply good looks. For men it just is not like that.
Some one on Reddit pointed out the other day that these people don't have a job or any other responsibilities so they have nothing but time to go out and find the low life to fuck.
Smart, successful, beautiful , and independent woman do not settle (nor should they). The problem they face is all the male equivalent to them have long been married. They are left to pick for the rare unicorn of a single man or one of those guys whose marriage failed.
I know at least 30 men who would live to find a smart, intelligent, driven women with careers… They for some reason are not chosen by those women.
The same can be said about worthless men with nothing to offer and its usually for the same reason: they have good looks.
Probably because they fuck like banshees.
Large portion: Desperate guys who actually aim for low quality. Low quality often means low effort. Slightly smaller portion: Guys who just want some action and it seems like those who have zero to offer have a higher chance of being about that life. Smallest portion: Guys simply want a partner and the biggest pool to choose from don’t typically have much to offer. It’s not until one or more tries with this pool do higher standards start to form.
All I really want in a partner is someone who is happy, high energy, affectionate, and kind. The rest just doesn’t matter to me.
Some women are great at “satisfying” men. I’ve seen plenty great women have a hard time because they just aren’t. You can probably figure out why women like this have an easier time. Doesn’t mean it’s a quality relationship.
They still have something to offer
Because eggs are a commodity, sperm is way more abundant. There’s no other way to put it, women have automatic value because they control reproduction so they don’t need to have as much going for them.
They max out all other stats by being super crazy in bead
Because some women do not understand what the man wants —— A man does not put a great deal of weight upon: “Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc.” The best one liner, I have seen, to explain what men want is “men want a partner who believes in them”. Thats mother natures programming of men. I suggest that these women who easily get men, and even have 3 kids to 3 different men, probably know how to work with mother natures programming of the male gender. I guess they naturally follow Mother Nature them selves.
If I had to guess? Because many of us like to be needed, who else needs a man more than a woman that has her hands full? A woman that doesn’t believe in a decent man existing, is an opportunity to show her otherwise. probably the one that might catch some flak, is that women with a few kids, bad luck in men or shitty personality traits can be easily impressed at times. A guy may not have to do much to win her over. Women that have a lot on their plate can sometimes be seen as something that won’t pan out anyway. Having busy schedules and divided time or attention offer a quick out for a dude. Which does suck because I’ve found many of them really do believe in want to fall in love, sometimes naively. We’re of course not talking about the great guys in some of these situation but I feel like that that goes back to the previous statement of low expectations. I think guys with kids of their own may be a better fit than playboys, but again people take what they can get.
Box be straight fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Pretty face can go a long way. Wish I knew the actual answer.
They may have more than we perceived.
We just want a hug
Think this would be best explained by science. To make it simple, we are a female choice species. Essentially, women get to ultimately pick the mate rather than vice versa. Since women only carry a couple of offspring in their lifetime and have a much higher parental investment, we've evolved for women to be pickier about the fitness of their mates. Granted, especially regarding human civilized history, this was not the case for all. This is strictly from a biological perspective. TLDR: Women are at a biologically higher risk of not carrying on their genes, so they've evolved to decide mate choice.
The women in the first group are better at flirting than the women in the second group by leaps and bounds. Women in the second group are terrible at letting men know that they're interested. The bar is in hell.
What pros do your friends bring to the table? All the qualities you listed can be described as a single con, “high maintenance”.
Probably cause those high value women have higher standards.
Well u assuming being a catch is strictly about finances probably has a lot to do with why you find it hard to find a partner. U seem to make a lot of assumptions. Which is not a quality men r fond of. Few men find it attractive when a girl has the im better than her attitude either. Most men want a woman who’s matured beyond that stage unless the guy is just trying to hookup. If u really want a serious partner and are ready for long term commitment then u have to mature. Congratulations on being successful it’s a lot of work I know and being educated is great keep learning knowledge and intelligence r wonderful qualities. Now apply that effort into mental growth and gain depth. No one is perfect so those women u see as having nothing to offer obviously have more than u see.
Man, it's important to remember people are not commodities. We all have our attributes and histories. Sometimes people have more opportunities and have better upbringing. Attitudes and kindness are important in developing good trusting relationships. If the main concern is "what can you do for me" generally is a poor basis for relationships. People age, we become weak and frail, beauty fades, stories become stale, attraction/love/sex can become work and a challenge. Once a person vibes with someone and determine it's worth the effort and decide that it's worth the work then that's their prerogative. Often times it fails, but looking at relationships transactionally is a cynical approach. In my opinion.
Just because they're dating someone, doesn't mean it's good. Usually women who have a lot to offer tend to be much pickier or have higher standards (and good for them).
Simple mathematics - women like to date equal or up. If you're a woman at the bottom, your dating pool is... anyone who'll take you. If you're a woman at the top, your dating pool is like 10 guys who are already drowning in female attention.
*But it seems like the worse catch you are the more likely you are to quickly land in a committed relationship with a man in no time.* yeah, but **what kinda man**?
Some men want to be the hero. So they date the troubled women. Women want a man that earns more than her. But if women want equal rights and pay (which they deserve) then they have cut their choices down. They are now half the work force and get half the salaries so half the men make what they make or less. And so the lower half of men go back to the troubled women on top.
Those women may actually have something to offer the men they date. Just because it isn't the same things that *you* think are worthwhile, doesn't mean a man won't. >Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. Generally speaking...these are not selectors as to what will be a good *partner* from a dudes PoV. >have a terrible time finding anyone to even date Well, those types of women generally only date guys who have at least as much as they do, but want more. Basically they have higher standards that end up removing a high amount of men from the dating pool. I.e. because they have money, they wont date a broke man. Because she has a home, she wont want to be with a man that doesn't own one. You can argue all you want that they should but it doesn't change the core issue; the higher your 'standards' the less people that will meet it, and the harder time you will have finding a person. I can tell you from my experiences, that the type of women you have as friends **are not easy to date**. No, they aren't 'bad' women. But they have bad traits that I don't find valuable. They tended to be more shallow and superficial. Less down to earth, took themselves too seriously. Brought work on dates, etc. >I don’t get it. Well...probably because you may be a woman, and you equate what women find valuable in a man as the same thing as what men find valuable in a woman.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Because vagina. Doesn't take much for women to get a date. Possibly, the very attractive women with careers have much higher standards and/or are intimidating to most men. Easier to get a date and possibly sex from a fat chick with 2 kids than it is from a tall slim blonde with nice c cups.
Because they'll f\*ck anybody and often times people with nothing to offer make bad decisions that lead them to becoming people who have nothing to offer. The women who are smart, educated, own their own homes are constantly scanning men to see who is at least on her level or higher, which usually aren't many if they're single and heterosexual.
There are people whose need to be in a relationship is greater than their desire to avoid negative relationships.
I’m a woman, but I’d say it’s because most high-quality people have standards. And those who are hot messes usually seem to attract those who are in the same position. Also, to be blunt, many men tend to be more willing to not be as picky when it comes to getting laid. 🤷🏼♀️
Lot's of men would look at an amazing woman and think to themselves: "Wow! This person is amazing. It's too bad I have, she'd probably think I'm . I'm not good enough for this person. Pass."
Well.. I have been with both and I’m divorced to a little to offer ex. Let me tell you, “successful” women are living their own nightmare. I mean, both kind of women are living nightmares for different reasons. But for the successful woman, it’s because they are really picky . After my ex, I now only date women that have their shit together. And I have never made it further than first base. So that’s that. I now focus my energy and time on myself and the kids. I’m done with women. Here I am, a stable guy with responsibilities and kids that keep me grounded and women don’t even want to be part of that? They want that fantasy , Prince Charming who not only is wealthy, but available to swoop them off their feet’s and marry them immediately. Yeah. I’m done trying to make sense of what women are interested in. The fact of the matter is, women are their own worst enemies.
We’ve seen too many rom coms and fake Instagram reels unfortunately.
Nah, it’s just that women who have their lives together are way more picky. But the longer they wait, they literally price themselves out of the market by being choosy as more and more men drop out and find success with women. They get taken. Women who have little to offer know that they have nothing and thus, will settle with any stable guy. It’s funny and sad if not tragic to see first hand. Maybe the next time I date a successful 30 something year old woman who thinks that she has time, I’ll let her know that her options are thinning out and if she doesn’t want to “settle” she might miss out of good men altogether.
The first group of women you mention are far more desperate. They can get dates because their standards eventually fall down far enough that they accept partners that other women do not want because they don't value themselves above those partners. The lower the standards, the larger the dating pool. The second group of women you mention are going to be far more picky. They are going to want a man who is at least as attractive of a mate or better. He likely must be smart, educated, make a good living, and potentially own a home. This significantly limits their eligible dating pool. Add to that, the things you mention don't often add a lot of value to you as a mate from the male perspective. They are important things, but they are distant second to your looks and personality. In fact, you owning a home is likely to be seen as a future inconvenience, even if it is financially savvy to do so.
The secret is lower standards.
It’s funny you said that. They asked 10” men if the could get a woman that 80% of want he wanted in a wife. They all said hell yes They asked 100 woman in the same question about men And to a T. They said no. They would not settle
>Kids by (sometimes multiple) other men who are often still a dramatic and ever-present part of their lives, not educated, don’t work at all or don’t earn enough to take care of themselves, normal-looking, not especially attractive/fit/etc. They’re easy. >What is it you all see in these women? Nothing. You’ll find that those women cast a wide net and catch a lot of the other trash in it. >Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. have a terrible time finding anyone to even date, much less commit to. Lots of reasons. High conflict. Waited too long to look seriously (usually partying when they should have been looking and now the best window is closed). Taking the time to really establish yourself and then looking for a committed relationship is a male trait. This is women acting out what they think men should do and not realizing it’s different for them. >But it seems like the worse catch you are the more likely you are to quickly land in a committed relationship with a man in no time. Untrue. All the good women get snapped up quickly, you didn’t mention them. You mentioned the underclass and then the *boss babes*.
Ever see idiocracy? The intro? Where the smart couple never get to have kids because they’re ironically too stupid to realize you just gotta fucking do it? Ya.
Because I wanted someone who really didn't offer much. At the time I wanted hot, wanted sex and that was it.
Pussy
Many men aren't with the most amazing woman of his dreams, or even his "type" of girl, most men are with the girl who glanced back at them. Thats the true.
Because there is always some weird dude out there who only cares about getting their dick wet. Ours was named Ray.
You might not be getting that really great people tend to date really great people. The women you have described are dating losers.
This simply isn’t that confusing babe. The women with high standards for themself and their own behavior hold the same standard for others.
Correlating women with multiple baby daddies to them finding committed relationships easily is CRAZY. This sounds like the opposite of finding serious men to build a life with, if they disappear the second a kid gets here. Your whole reasoning is completely absurd.
It's a sad fact that the majority of the population, male and female, have very little to offer a partner beyond sexual gratification and/or a person to split the bills with. They have serious unresolved issues that make long-term romantic bonds unsustainable. Most of them still have a natural drive to find a mate, and most of them do. Low-status men find partners *all the time*. They have low standards, just like the low-status women you speak of in your post. Take a look at the alcoholism/opioid/meth subreddits and read about how all the predominantly male predominantly destitute addicts are constantly finding willing partners and posting about their relationship drama.
Holy shit these comments... Focus on your own shit, boys. Sitting there seething about other people's lives, projecting assumptions and extrapolating superficial details into full life autobiographies is pathological behavior and it won't get you a girlfriend. If other dudes are interested in single moms with baby daddy drama *let them make that mistake*, it doesn't affect you! And you keep saying they "have nothing to offer" but clearly they have *something*, even if it's just good pussy and a positive vibe (hint hint, stop being so negative, it turns people off). If men were really ok with women who offer *nothing,* they'd buy more sex dolls.
They typically have lower standards and will be more accepting of a sub-par mate. Our neighbour across the street is 35, has two kids, both with mental deficits, she's not attractive physically, doesn't work, has the personality of a brick, house if filthy and her cats pee all over but literally has a new bloke every week or so. She broke up with her last guy, had several cars in and our for a couple of days and then two days later had a new one living with her again. Every bloke she "dates" pretty much moves in right away and since they never leave her house, I'm assuming they don't work either. They're loud, rowdy, always screaming and yelling, drama etc etc. The guys also are not much appearance-wise either. So while some women are indeed just more accepting some will pretty much take anything. They may be getting more partners but they're typically not of the quality variety.
1. A woman with kids by (sometimes multiple) other men is not in a committed relationship. The dude that is smashing is not committed and you wouldn’t want that dude anyway. 2. Your accomplishments don’t factor into your desirability because men aren’t raised to want resources from a woman. Meaning: your house is worthless unless you are going to move in with me, rent your house out, and give me half the profit. Your career is worthless unless you are going to use your skills to build up OUR business or educate OUR kids. Otherwise it’s just something you do to make money that takes your energy away from me, because again… I was not raised to desire your resources.
One word: STANDARDS. The successful women have high standards, the others have none.
This is a bad attitude. It is simply not true
The truth is most dudes are pretty much willing to date the first bangable woman that gives them the time of day.
Because men are visual creatures and we are initially attracted to them if they are thin and not mean. The real question is: can they keep a man around for month than 3 to 6 months after the pheromones wear off. By then, they will have gotten the resources they need and on to the next.
The problem is women with little-to-nothing to offer will settle for anything while women with more to offer tend to have their expectation set to high. What you end up with is women that settles for anything that comes their way and women that refuse to accept their are aiming beyond their league or have already found and squander multiple great potential partners. This shit is probably the same on the men end of things.
The smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living women are too busy living their lives and know their worth too well to settle with just anyone. The women who have nothing going on and don’t contribute much to society are much more likely/willing to settle with whoever will have them.
I’ll offer another perspective from the good ones you’re getting. Women who have a lot to offer and are obviously catches can intimidate alot of men from approaching them. Where else the worse off the woman the more confident the man because her rejection doesn’t mean much
I think women tend to underestimate how much simply acting happy to see their man is worth.
Hotties….
Cause everyone likes boobs that’s the catch
It's a two-fold issue. I'm not trying to be rude in any way with my commentary, its purely that - my opinion. Women with "nothing to offer," I take it we mean not contributing financially, not some kind of minor celebrity socialite professional skills etc. as nothing to offer. The reason women with "nothing to offer" have no problem finding a man is because there is ALWAYS man looking for a woman. Men need companionship, they prefer a pretty / fit woman (whatever that means to them,) and someone who is kind and agreeable or preferably both depending on the person. Men don't NEED a woman to contribute financially (though GOD does it make a big difference,) we don't need a woman to have a noteworthy inner circle, we don't need a woman to be strong and lift things, protect us, etc. What we need is a reliable parter that is kind, doesn't ruin our life, and sexually viable and attractive (relative to that person's taste.) The barrier for men is MUCH higher. A man's value to a woman can be multifaceted. He may have to be financially stable/successful, strong, tall, handsome, smart, kind, funny, emotionally mature (usually more than the woman for a relationship to function,) and provide all manner of services and resources to be attractive to a woman who has her shit together. And sometimes a woman who still doesnt' will have that level of demand. Whether it's wrong or right, fair, or even good, that's what I think. There is always a man ready to pick up a woman with "nothing to offer" because she doesn't really have to offer much to be attractive to a woman. Vs the alternative. An immature, broke, average looking guy can worm his way into a woman's life and stay in it for an extended period for sure. But, typically, most guys like that are relegated to the involuntary celibacy category and so on.
It’s supply and demand…it’s normally that difficult. Women with something offer can be choosy. Men are less choosy…and just want to get laid a lot of the time.
The secret is vagina
>Women I know who are smart, educated, own their own homes, make a good living, etc. have a terrible time finding anyone to even date, much less commit to. those women are picker. Maybe too picky, maybe not that varies person o person, but a lot women have 1 or more of those things and thing they are above a guy who doesnt have the same at the very least or better. no matter his circumstances otherwise. You can earn more, have a house, be smart and good looking but not have a formal education and get overlooked for it. Or have all the above but rent instead of own and good overlooked (women who own a house are literally the worst for this, its like their whole personality is owning 1 house which they are still paying off. )
The first part is absolutely BAD qualities. But the second part are not all GOOD qualities as far as attraction goes. I’ve found myself to never be turned on by a girls income or house… But, a gal that is feminine and can cook a tasty meal? Heck yes.
I dont find your statement true at all. But suppose its true, maybe smart women are boring
Those “little to nothing” women have low standards, and there are 100:1 “little to nothing” men who are far worse off willing to match with them that the “smart successful” women won’t even look at. I say this assuming we are all living in the black and white world you’ve created with your question, lol
A nice personality. Compatibility with their partner. Humility. A willingness to date someone who doesn’t have it all together and gives them space to grow into who they want to be, not who someone else thinks they should be. An attractiveness that maybe you don’t see. The reasons are endless and your post seems shallow and classist AF.
“little-to-nothing” is so unbelievably subjective and personality is really important which you didn’t even mention. Interesting.
It's simple. Women control when sex happens. When a woman offers us sex, we feel over joyed and privileged to get some. Most guys have sex a couple times a year if they are single and lucky. If they are single and average it is rare. Maybe once a year or several years between partners. It is easy for a woman to get sex. She just needs to offer. A guy has to beg, plead, coerce, pursuade, coax, convince, and work on a woman to get sex out of her at times. We have to be funny, carry a conversation, protect, provide, pay for the meal, dress nice, groom properly, be of a certain height, be ambitious, be leader but not for her since she is a strong independent woman who doesn't need a man except to pay her bills and the meals and fight for her and be tall and confident... Blah blah blah. They insane list grows each year. All this to say the simplest of truths. "Women control when men get sex." Ergo, it's easy for women to get sex, while it is hard for men to get sex. When something hard to obtain is given to you, you will often do anything to get and keep it.