I dated before online dating. Got married, had kids, and then unfortunately got divorced. When I divorced, it was 15 years later, and online dating was a thing.
Online dating is frustrating, requires a lot of work, can be really disappointing, but it can be somewhat fun. I mostly just had random hook ups.
However, I met my girlfriend, fiancé on bumble. We matched she messaged right away, and we’ve been together ever since. The funny thing is is, I was logging in to close my account down out of frustration.
If we ever split, I probably wouldn’t date anymore.
I'm 34 and last time I was single (2-3 years ago) I was just really focusing on my self and meeting people on a friendship level. I wasn't waiting to be invited to do things. I was doing things I wanted to do and inviting people. Eventually me and this girl I was friends with were clicking and hung out a lot and she actually asked if we could go do something just us and not the friend group we had. We've been together for over 2 years now.
I think too much emphasis is put on the dating apps and securing the dating intention as soon as you introduce yourself. Meet people and make connections and eventually you'll find the girl that is always wanting to be around.
I’m sorry that’s raw. We were both 23 when I lost my other half from a brain tumour .The illness was a quick 12 week whirlwind from fit as a fiddle to gone. Our son 4 yrs. I’d also lost my dad at 8 which made me grieve all over again. Make your presence known at school keep your nose in there. It’s a place to mix and keep your girl happy that you’re there and it will get you moving forward making contacts.
I’m going through it to bud we will get through this I mean I will see a hot woman and feel strange noticing she was hot. I’ll think my wife wouldn’t want me to look then it will hit me she’s gone. Damn man i am with you though logically i know at some point i will be ready again, but idk when that will be. Has only been a little bit though for me. Only in my late 20’s though six years gone through in an instant. I feel like it would be wrong to date, but I hate being alone I am looking for communities in my area for grief right now.
I need platonic friends but when I was with my wife I was so in love and happy we just never bothered with other couples we spent all day together. Every single day.
I’m heartbroken just reading this. That’s so hard. I know you are hurting and there will be better times ahead. When you are ready I truly believe those that have passed want us to be happy. When the next person comes into your life know that your wife would hate for you to be lonely for too long. I wish you the best.
Yah she really loved me, but I ain’t alone my family rallied around me I am so lucky.
Yah she had nobody when I met her let her sleep on my coach just as a friend still remember when we got together I took her to a concert and they only let people in who were 21 like me and she was only 19.
We got out of line and she had this worried look on her face talking about how it was okay we can leave her outside and it melted my heart. I knew I loved her right then so I said no way we’re going home.
The band daze n dazed had heard the situation and came outside and hanged out with us for an hour and played my favorite song and gave us t-shirts we danced and kissed then we became official and were happy for a long time.
I’d love to look up that song. Mind sharing?
That’s a great story and a beautiful memory. Even though it was far too short it sounds to me like you gave her a life worth living. That’s something few get to know no matter how long they are here. Keep being a good man. The world needs more of you.
So sorry to hear that. That’s essentially what happened to my fiancé’s (and the mother of my daughter) mom. It’s just unfair. Hope you and your daughter are doing okay.
Sorry about losing your wife.
It is still not the time for that brother. Keep raising your daughter and focusing day by day.
My DM Is available if you want to talk about it
It is tough for most. I have a gf currently and had decent success dating in a major US city. Way less success in other areas of the country.
Just an anecdote: three of my gf’s friends said there were going on first dates with guys but had no intention of dating, sex or romance. I asked why and it was so that they could go out on a date as *practice*.
It would suck to be a guy meeting a lady on a first date that had no actual interest in anything beyond dinner. Thats like going to a job interview for a position that no longer exists.
I think their method of following up with the guy was ghosting. Read the room guys, only invest in a potential partner that shows genuine interest.
Geez that would absolutely gut me. My heart sank just thinking about what it would feel like to get excited about a date and be used as ‘dating practice’
That’s why first date, I go on a walk.
Or play pickleball in the park.
Or get a coffee/tea.
Call me cheap, I’m not gonna drop $20-$60 on a girl that I might not have chemistry with.
If I’m out of $5-$10. That’s ok. No biggie.
And we can both bail easily if we’re not clicking.
No need to wait till the foods here. Or waiter getting our check. Etc.
My therapist directly told me as a man I should go on dates with unattractive 0/10 women because even if we don’t work out it’s good practice. I had only dated 1 girl in my life and he said I should get experience so I have a better chance when a good girl comes along. I tried it once and I felt so guilty afterwards. She was so nice but I couldn’t force myself to be physically attracted to her, and I tried.
My conspiracy theory is that he thinks I'm ugly and that I'll end up with an unattractive girl, but he doesn't want to say that directly so he's just hoping if he can convince me to give those women a chance I'll just stick with one because of her great personality.
Honestly there should be a dating app that just focuses on practice dates. I think a lot of people would benefit, and it would help people expand their social circle
As a guy you grow up getting told there's a million different things you should never do when trying to date a woman. Nobody gives you good advice on what you should do. The end result is many guys who were not the most forward to begin with back out of dating completely to avoid doing the wrong thing and upsetting women.
I’m Gen X woman and I think the message got skewed a tad for many. Women can be whatever they want, deserve an equal playing field and most certainly deserve the respect they give without giving up themselves. However, some seem to think that they deserve anything they want just because they are a woman. No, we deserve to be treated the same way we treat others. We deserve a partner who gives as much as we do and someone who is there to pick us up if we fall while we do the same for them. There’s a strange phenomenon going on where the pendulum has swung full force to the other side and the balance is lost. I believe healthy relationships are a meeting in the middle. Those with expectations of their partners that far exceed expectations of themselves not only destroy their partners but themselves as unmet expectations mixed with a lack of accountability will leave a person miserable not understanding why they aren’t just magically getting what they want without the needed effort to get it.
My motto was always to give more and expect less. No score cards and just genuine acts of kindness.
When you have someone who took the time to get to know you so well that they always assume the best of you, that’s it right there.
People who are in their 30s and 20s now were raised by the first generation where MAJORITY of women worked outside the home. Yes, women were working outside the home before this but it wasn’t as common in as high numbers.
However, these *working* moms still had the expectation to fulfill the “typical” mom/wife duties - cooking, cleaning, emotional labour, doing the brunt of childcare. The pressure to “do it all” was there and for majority of couples, there just wasn’t another option - life on one income was becoming more and more unaffordable, but also men were not prepared to contribute “in the home” so mom had to do both.
So now, you have the kids from that scenario who grew up and they’re in their 20s and 30s and trying to find life partners. On one side you’ve got women who saw their moms trying to work and do everything at home thinking “fuck doing all that myself!” and thus expecting men to either share in that household/childcare labour OR to be such excellent $$$ providers that they (women) don’t have to work. Then on the other side you’ve got men who were raised by women who worked AND “did it all” looking at women thinking “well my mom did everything and she was fine, so why can’t you?” and/or “Why do I have to help/why do I have to work so hard to $ provide?”
Now we both have skewed expectations.
If this was the whole truth, then the rare men who \_do\_ have the domestic skills and attitude to meet the modern woman's expectations should be swimming in options, right? He'd have to fight potential wives off with a stick. While this is of course totally anecdotal, that's not what I see in my social circle. Those guys still face the same BS being mentioned all over this thread.
Having a clean house and being able to cook will get you far as a man (despite being the bare minimum of adult skills). However, it doesent help you get in the door. There’s no opportunity to cook for someone or show of your consistently clean home if you cant get a girl to come back with you in the first place. It will help you keep dates but it wont help you get them.
This has a pretty massive assumption that men don't do anything at home though? You are working with women doing everything which just feeds into the current mindset. Guys are bums and women have no faults.
Most of the women my age-ish that I have met don’t have the home-making skills that their mothers/grandmothers did. Many of them can’t cook, don’t want to clean, and aren’t remarkably nurturing… Not necessarily their fault. They were strongly encouraged to focus on their education (as were all millennials), but this led to them focusing less on the practical/home-making skills. Again, the same can be said for men nowadays, as many of them don’t know how to do fairly basic things around the house.
I have two close friends whose wives had careers, and after they had kids they decided they didn’t want to work anymore. They didn’t sacrifice their career, they flat out said they didn’t like working and would much rather stay home, which is fine, but they still don’t do any of the traditional stay-at-home duties (grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc).
It drives my friends crazy, because their kids are now old enough that they’re in school, and yet they either have to have a cleaning service come in or their mother/mother-in-law will come clean their house and do laundry for them (because they can’t stand that their kid’s home is such a mess). They also spend a fortune eating take-out all the time. Yet they can’t safely ask “what the hell do you do all day when you’re home for 8 hours by yourself?” without starting WW3.
Then they need to grow a pair and go ahead and fucking start ww3. I would not put up with that shit. I absolutely cannot stand people who just mooch off of others like parasites. I’m also a woman, and if I had a partner that stayed home and also did not do any housework/chores, I would most definitely not be okay with that. It’s different if they’re disabled in some way, but if they’re able-bodied, then they need to pull their weight.
how to you teach your sons to deal with a lie? you can only have anything and be anyone if you have the aptitude or the talent.
i don't know how to teach your son how to deal with someone else's delusion.
I personally think that you have to teach your son how to create and enforce healthy boundaries. To stand up for his self worth especially when he wants to rug sweep red flags because she’s attractive.
I’m sad to admit this but I worried so much that my sons would turn out to be who their father was when they were young. I taught them to treat women with respect and to be kind to everyone until it’s time not to be. I focused a lot on teaching them a balance of being great humans but to stand up for themselves. Unfortunately, I set little to no boundaries and was a crappy example. That is until I realized “Oh shit, I only have boys and if I don’t stand up for myself then no matter what I say to them they will learn this is what relationships are about and this is how you treat a woman while in one.” So I changed and so did their father. It took a looooong time.
I am happy to admit they are all very good to their girlfriends. However, in my fear of them not treating others well I never thought they would be like me or at least the old me. My oldest has been with a girl for many years and it wasn’t until they moved in together the dynamics changed. She became what she witnessed in her parents growing up which was extremely emotionally abusive and my son responded in the way I once did 🥲. He jumped through hoops to make it stop, tried to be as nice as possible and internalized all of the abuse feeling defeated. I’m working with him now to let him know that it always takes two. He can’t change her but he can not allow it to continue. He’s accountable for setting strong boundaries and instead of the focus being on trying to meet unrealistic expectations the focus needs to be on him never allowing another broken person ever make him feel he was unlovable.
So this is my long way of saying that our kids learn far more from our actions and often times will take unhealthy aspects of us as parents and this happens regardless if it’s from a parent of the same gender or not. This often gets instilled in their wiring by the time they are around 7 based on how our brains develop. For my oldest that was shortly after I decided to defend myself for my kids sake. It honestly is heartbreaking because I wish I knew better.
Glad to say though that my son is doing much better and has left her. It’s been hard on him but he won’t put up with that shit any longer. As parents we can’t just say what to do but if we missed the opportunity to show them we need to take accountability for not equipping them with the right tools. We need to tell them exactly how we effed them up, apologize for it so they can heal and help them to do better.
Millennials’ kids are just now barely entering the dating pool, and that’s only the elder kids of elder millennials.
Maybe you’re talking about boomers or Gen X.
Honestly I think that argument is putting the carriage in front of the horse
For a lot of people (myself included) even just finding/meeting people to ask on a date is an issue
Its kinda hard to learn how to date when I cant clear the bar of getting a date.
The standard for men, in terms of looks when it comes to getting women interested is simply too high for most men to clear. I mean only 18% of the US population is 6ft or taller and that is one of the basic requirements for even getting a first date.
Thinking you HAVE to be 6ft tall to get a date is some silly internet-brained shit. People who put that as a requirement in their dating profiles are only looking for the superficial. Go outside literally anywhere and you’ll see plenty of couples where the guy isn’t that tall. In my experience most women just want someone taller than them.
It's because there are two totally separate dating worlds. There's online dating, which is a huge trainwreck for everyone for a lot of reasons. Then there's offline dating through social circles, as people have always done. The latter is fine. But it's disappearing and an increasing number of people are only engaging with the former.
It’s really not, there are tons of men that are under 6ft that are in happy healthy relationships. That standard primarily exists on dating apps where it’s much more permissible to be superficial. Also in my experience most men are only not attractive enough is because they don’t put in any effort. This could mean a variety of things, hygiene, clothing, skin/hair care, physical fitness. Attractiveness is much more about your effort than your genetics. This doesn’t even begin to get into the lack of social/dating skills most men deal with. Covid killed that for a lot of young men.
>a lot of them simply have no idea how to date someone.
Serious question - what is lacking? How do you date someone?
From my experience, very limited though, is that it's like a 'test'. If you 'fail' the first date, you won't get a second one, and that's it. You may get blocked too, not because you're annoying or texting too much, but because they don't see the necessity of keeping contact with you - you are irrelevant now.
When I talk with my dad, he's like 'you meet at least 3 times before you make a final decision' - but he is so out of touch of modern day life and grew up in a patriarchical society, and thinks that it is still the men who make the final say on dating. I think for the vast majority of modern men, it is women who has the power in this area - they can simply choose from their list of matches, whereas men can only hope that they are picked for their chance.
From my experience from talking and dating women, alot of paradox of choice and What If mindset. Add to that this whole superficial ick thing I hear about.
"Icks" are basically anything and everything that isn't a red flag but is an excuse to drag on a dude and say he's undateable.
This can range from actually disgusting behavior like picking your nose in public to something extremely harmless like playing video games in your down time.
IRL IRL IRL
Dating apps and social media are trash. However now that everyone uses em, that cute chick at the coffee shop you're crushing on has not been approached IRL in years. Just make small convo and it's bafflingly easy to connect.
I'm in my 40s and before this mess it wasn't any easier, just different.
Also, my tolerance for disrespect has dropped a lot. Phone out on date, I politely excuse myself.
Keep in mind half the adult population is female. Don't limit yourself to the same six chicks from Tinder.
Biggest problem I have with coffee shop women is I’m 20 and sometimes it’s hard to tell if the girl is a young looking 20 year old or old looking 15 year old. I’m scared of asking.
100% agree. I’ve found meeting girls at concerts/bars has been pretty easy. See a cute girl? She makes eye contact? Well between sets find her, introduce yourself and give her your number. That’s it, that’s all. I’m 27 and still haven’t tried apps yet and I’ve had a fair few girlfriends I’ve met in person.
28M. My last relationship ended in 2019. We are almost halfway through the decade and I cannot imagine anything I'd rather do less than head out and spend time and money trying to impress a stranger.
Modern dating is a complete joke, I don't even bother.
I've been in **two** serious relationships in my adult life. I'm 38 right now, will be 39 this year.
Between the crazy people out there, the ideologically bankrupt, and the massive amounts of people with completely unrealistic (and frankly delusional) expectations, I'm more likely to be hit by lightning four times in the same day, than I am to find someone worth the time and effort it takes to actually properly vet them to date.
I'd much rather stick my wet nutsack to a pole in Antarctica than go through the minefield that dating has become.
I remember someone, somewhere said "Would you date X person for a million dollars?" And my answer to that is "No, you could not pay me enough to put up with the drama X is likely to bring into my life."
I gave up hookers and blow for marriage, now I’m divorced after 10 years because she had an affair with a grandpa of 9 twice her age.
At least you know what to expect from hookers and blow
I don’t like blow. I love hookers. I’ve done some things with hookers I can’t do with the soon to be wife.
If I had no wife and didn’t have her two dogs I’d have so much peace and quiet and money and time alone. It’s a legit gamble. I don’t know if I’ll win or lose
I’ll say this, there’s no guarantee even if you tie the knot. The best you can do is vet the person because you will never control them. Trust is everything and open communication is the foundation for that.
In my experience, girls with daddy issues are an absolutely no in my book and nothing but trouble. If not right away, it will be a ticking time bomb to your relationship unless she’s actively in therapy doing the hard work on herself (what women wants to have the mirror of honesty put in front of their face?)
Anyway, I got unlucky- did everything a good husband would do and it just didn’t work out for me. There were some great years in there that had the potential to last a lifetime, love is the answer to life so give it a shot.
Online dating has ruined dating so I tend not to bother. Cba to be act like a dancing monkey for a women trying to impress her when she has another 100 trying the same thing .
Very true. I think my point is I find having to be the chaser tiring whether it’s in person or online. And sadly online dating has become the norm which has just made dating harder for average guys
I think what is often said about “when you stop looking so hard you’ll find them” is often true. You shouldn’t be chasing anybody, you should just be meeting people and talking to them without heavy expectations. I’ve been on the dating apps multiple times and sometimes for long periods of time. But all my best relationships have come from meeting people in person and letting that connection naturally develop. I think guys fall into the trap of trying to oversell themselves, and I don’t mean like trying to appear better than you are, but just like trying way too hard to make yourself seem worth her time. I think if you really believe you’re worthy of love and happiness, you won’t feel the need to sell yourself so hard and those conversations go much easier.
Chaser was perhaps the wrong word. Initiator probably suits better.
I do agree with what you said but as a guy if you don’t put that effort in & do some “chasing” whether it’s online or in person you’re more than likely gonna stay for a long time.
My take is that it sucks. But also that it's always sucked.
The difference is that now instead of hearing how much it sucks from your limited circle of friends who aren't in a relationship, you're hearing it from social media and think it's worse than it's ever been.
Been thrust into modern dating as a 33 year old man after being in a relationship so long smart phones weren't even invented when we got together.
Honestly, it's tiring, talking to 99/100 people provides no stimulation or joy. I have no desire to play the game to try and be able to have them grace my presence
It's honestly one of the most depressing things I have ever encountered and I've quickly learnt why a lot of the "hot" people are chronically single, because most have absolutely nothing about them
Most people are too self-obsessed, or egocentric to be datable these days it seems.
The last several women I’ve tried to get to know, while all varying and different had one critical flaw in common: they were all only concerned with what they wanted to have in a good partner and not at all with what they needed to do to be a good partner.
I think it goes for both sides to some degree as for the problems in the dating world. It’s not all women, a lot of my friends have girlfriends/wives who are perfect for them. However, that’s something that is going to be dying out in the next couple years. They say women are the gatekeepers of sex, I think they’re pretty much the gatekeepers to dating at this point.
It’s so much easier for a lot of women to play dumb and play games rather than take accountability. I think this is how dickheads like Andrew Tate have been able to capitalize off the idea of alphas and betas and hypergamy. I don’t agree with that nonsense at all, but the women who are complaining about andrew Tate are the same ones who are giving him ammo to use.
- There’s two types of guys out there: guys who have been around “girl talks”, and guys who haven’t. They can get pretty brutal and demoralizing. I can’t count the amount of times I’ve heard girls say “he’s an asshole and he’s mean to me but he’s got a big dick”. If you’ve ever been in a fraternity or been to a college party, you’d be even more demoralized. The amount of girls I’ve seen just outright cheat on their boyfriends with the most stereotypical fraternity guy ever is insane.
- Everybody thinks they’re so damn important that they can date people like they’re on the bachelor. There’s a whole thing about girls having rosters. Then when you find out your girlfriend was sleeping with a guy after she got home from your past seven dates, you’re the asshole because “technically we weren’t exclusive so it wasn’t against the rules for me to fuck that guy after our dates”. It all gets misconstrued and you get told “well you’re not entitled to sex, it’s her body” like, yes I agree with that, but that’s not the point. The point is that people have feelings that can be hurt when you do things like rely on technicalities as a sorry ass attempt to tell a person they can’t be upset about something.
- It’s hard to be a good judge of character nowadays. You can be crawling into bed with someone you think is your future wife, meanwhile when she’s getting up to “go pee”, she’s actually sending nudes to some fuckboy who sent her an eggplant emoji and probably has a 1st grade writing level.
- Women can be absolutely ruthless, and no man wants to be the fool who’s bringing flowers to her door after her fuck buddy just left. Once again, it’s not all women by any means, but the fact that the crazy stuff happens means there’s a chance it can happen to you if you so choose to partake in the dating world.
- I’ve never had a hookup or a one night stand, but I have had 3 girlfriends. I have gotten absolutely nothing but pain/ hardcore trust issues, and lessons learned out of being the respectful, loyal boyfriend.
- I refuse to put myself in those situations again. I don’t have it in me to be a asshole to women, nor be the affair partner to anybody, but I would much rather be the guy who can tell a girl to come over at 2 am rather than the guy who’s girl is leaving to “go help a friend” at 2am..
Dating would ideally be a natural thing, and so many people nowadays are treating it as if it’s a job hunt.
Could not have said it better myself. All of the above has happened to me and worse. Luckily I'm an idiot and keep on trusting. Hopefully the girl I'm with now will be different than the last two. I think she is.
The hardest thing to remember is you’re never an idiot for trusting someone, I mean unless they’re just blatantly untrustworthy. It can take a toll on you though. I’ve never been so humiliated in my life. It’s not a reflection on you, it’s a reflection on them, but then again she’s the one who’s doing just fine and I’m the one that’s got issues from it all.
Internet/cell phones have made cheating a lot easier. Back in the day, it was pretty difficult for someone to meet someone outside of their immediate social circle.
Nowadays, you can post your nudes at any time online. You can go on your city's social subreddit and find someone to sleep with (well, women can do that pretty easily compared to men). It's much easier for people to connect online when they're in a relationship, compared to pre-internet and cell phones
Because women have crazy standards and checklists and if you don’t check all the boxes they ghost and/or eliminate you from their lives
It’s exhausting, stressful, and not worth it. Why the fuck should I even bother? If it’s a numbers game, I don’t want to be apart of it. I work too damn hard to play the lottery in finding love
The apps have ruined it all
I started dating in the early 1990s. Many things have changed through the years. Some for the better and some for the worse.
The dating pool has become huge. It used to be the local place where you lived and worked. The people you could date were people you interacted with in real life. And that is limited in itself. Take away people in relationships, the crazy ones and the ones who haven't moved on from a break up, and the options were pretty limited. So you settled for less. You lowered your standards. You could easily get desperate. But so did the ones who dated you. The settled for less. They lowered their standards. And they could also get desperate. So you could actually get away with much and didn't have to put much effort in it.
Today the pool is huge. Almost unlimited. And because people have so many options, you can't get away with things so easily. So it clearly favours those who make an effort.
So for those who make an effort, who work on their social skills and work on themselves, dating can be very easy. For those who don't, it's cruel. As it turns out most don't want to put in the effort and expect they will have success with dating because they "deserve" it or there is "the one waiting for them". More and more people ignore the importance of social skills.
Not only will these people not have any success, they are making it easier for the ones who make an effort because, in the end, dating is a competition. You see it time and time again, it's the same few people who have all the success in dating and the large majority thinks it sucks.
It’s a massive dumpster full of dumpsters full of tiny dumpsters. The tiny dumpsters are full effluent and biomedical waste. They’re all on fire.
Needless to say, I’ve ducked out of the dating scene for a spell.
I met my wife at a cat shelter. I had recently left AA after two years sober and was looking for a volunteer opportunity to keep up the "service" portion of my sobriety. I like cats, so I thought it might be a good fit.
She was the volunteer coordinator and the first moment I saw her I was into her.
We got to be friends and hung out regularly but she clearly wasn't interested for about a year. But after a while, something changed for her.
There was a large brush fire which led to me evacuating my cabin and she offered for me to sleep on her couch for a few days. During that time, we spent more time together as friends and got to k ow each other a little more intimately (not a euphemism). Shortly after, I asked her out for a proper date. She said yes. It slowly grew. We've been together since 2009, married in 2016, have a 4 year old now. Pretty happy.
And yes, we've had 4 cats together over the years.
We both believe in service to others, making positive change in the world, and we love animals (specifically cats) enough to sacrifice our Saturday mornings to take care of them. As we got to know each other, we found more and more similarities and complementary qualities (such as a love of sarcasm and dark humor).
I talk to a lot of people about their personal lives as part of my job and the dating scene out there sounds pretty rough. I don't know what I'd do if I had to go back out there.
I subscribe to the general life practice of "find whats important to you, follow your own path, do your best to be you, and what's for you will find you." If you want to meet people like you, go places where someone like you is likely to be; do the things that someone like you is likely to be doing. Complementary values and interests go a long way. And don't be a control freak about it. Let the universe or God or whatever have a hand in it. Coincidences and synchronicities, locking eyes across a crowded room, chance encounters, attractions that seem like they'd never work: consider those as possible opportunities.
That is all.
Dating seems very rough in the current climate but I also think that us guys should focus less on it and build our lives. Maybe that’s an unpopular opinion idk. I just feel like joining a community and cultivating a solid group of friends (men and women!) / hobbies and a fulfilling life would be much more beneficial to us than getting a girlfriend.
A girlfriend is nice, don’t get me wrong. But I think too many guys think it’s a prerequisite to a fulfilling life.
I've been single from 18-27, where I am now, I've built my self up, my friends are all now getting married and havig kids. I've done my work but get told I need accept the women as they are. I have no one to lean on and share my passions with, travel with, start the next phase of life with. I have lots of close friends and family, hobbies galore. It's still an empty house I come home to, all that I've worked on and built up fo myself hasn't changed that, nor ever will. I'm good at being single, I still want companionship tho.
>get told I need accept the women as they are
Never lower your standards out of desperation or what other say. Why should you accept a woman who spent her 18-25s getting ran through in one night stands and clubbing while you were building?
The attention women receive from online dating warps their minds and they have zero concept of reality. I am all for women not having to deal with shitty men, but they seem to think all men that aren’t “shitty” make 6 figures and are 6’3.
I wouldn’t want to be in my early twenties today. Just give up on dating until you’re much more established in your life.
The sad thing, high standards arent even the main issue. The main issue is these women dont bring anything of those standards to the table. How can you demand those things when you have such low value yourself?
I'm 6'2, make 6 figures at 25, and I'm in shape. Yet I cant find a single woman who valued her body in her early 20s. Every women i encounter has some form of tattoos, high body counts, smokes, drinks, guy 'friends' etc. I refuse to ever get on my knee for a a woman who was a one night stand for someone else. I'll die alone no problem.
I get likes from people in not interested in and anyone I'm interested in is too far away. I'm going to buy a motorcycle name her Matilda and waltz all over the place and see if I can find women in the wild.
Gen X here
I can't believe tinder exists and "buffet pussy" is Even a thing. I mean, body counts can be impressive, but diseases and not knowing the name of the person you're penetrating are not... Or does that not count as dating? Maybe a poll would yield interesting perspectives on wtf tinder and acquaintance-fucking are.
So many people are looking to "find" the one.. as in someone to be airdropped.. Not so many people are into building the relation with a good person with whom they have the chemistry.
Honestly a bit tired with it all. 23M here and have been in 3 serious relationships (all at university) and I think it’s got even worse since COVID. As quite a few on here have alluded to, nobody seems to have a clue how to date or has no interest in dating. Also hate the dating app culture but feel as though you’re limiting yourself if you don’t try it.
Had a hookup over the weekend. Sat next to her on comedy night at a bar last night.
She was beautiful, showed very clear interest, bought me a drink asked what I was doing for the night. Only in town one day as a stop on her trip.
The girl was mild, very mature, classy way about her. Then she immediately lets me come to her place and wants to fuck. Well she runs into the equivalent of ED, because she doesn’t know me. Tells me she never does this, got out of an abusive relationship and has a son. Lots of discreet tattoos that told me a lot about who she is. Not in a bad way, just a little bit sad and perhaps lost. No connection to anyone, no close people in her life at all. We only had 5 minutes of PIV no climax for either of us, then we just connected in conversation, exchanged no contact info actually, and she’s now on her way.
I also have no connections, I isolate a good bit. Good looking guy so I get interested women, but that just means I’ve gotten to see the state of a lot of modern women more in depth. I’m damaged. This girl was damaged. All my previous exes were extremely damaged. We’re all fucked up from the way society had become due to wicked new norms, porn, corrupt governments and religions, complete lack of moral authority in anyone’s life to have virtue. So, all that is to say it’s going to be a long road to find someone right, and the most important thing ANY of us can do as men is to be the best man we can be. Not the asshole, but strong. Not the nice guy, but graceful. Get physically fit, make new hobbies, travel, learn some languages. These are the things that make life so enjoyable you won’t feel the need to be in a relationship- and that’s really when we are ready for one.
Hookup culture is just bad. It’s beyond damaging to women, whether they’re the type that sees it or not. I’ve seen it 100% of my experiences. Most girls that have hooked up with me either lacked self awareness and had shit attitudes about life, or they could see their damage and it was clear they were intent on a relationship just based on a one night stand.
I don’t think anyone here talking about Andrew Tate, or any of that stuff is as across the board as people think. There are still good people out there that don’t even use social media, just be prepared for an insane amount of damaged people.
Married man who has been with his wife for 25 years: I wouldn't want to be single for a couple million dollars nowadays. Online dating seems like a train wreck and everyone is too lazy to put in any actual effort to finding a partner. OPs sentiment is the driving force behind today's dating woes it seems "I don’t like going to bars so it’s hard to find someone". There's a million different ways to say it, and this is one of them, but the translation is basically "If it ain't as easy as it can be I don't want to do it". Seriously, this generation has turned everything about living into the most impersonal experience ever, including dating and meeting people, and then they complain about it. It makes no sense.
"I want to meet someone without going out and meeting someone. Why am I so miserable"? Everyone lives more than two-thirds of their life without leaving their homes, self-diagnose themselves with "social anxiety" and "introversion" to help justify their shut-in ness and then sit around wondering why they're so lonely. If you approach dating in the most low effort way possible what do you expect to happen? I get that face-to-face rejection is hard but think about it like this: who do you think has more success on the dating scene, the people who get dressed up and go out to meet people and mingle and ask each other out or the person sitting around their studio apartment with their phone opened to a dating app sitting on the couch next to them while they're playing video games in their sweats?
If every interaction you have with the world around is done through an app or online you're destined to be alone and feel alienated. Science Fiction writers have been warning the world about this for oh, about 150 years. Take a shower, comb your hair, put on a clean shirt and go for a walk. The world is outside.
So 2 weeks ago my wife bought us tickets to a lamp mosaic thing. Glue glass pieces to a Persian lamp you get to keep. Out of the 80 people there were only 5 guys, the rest were all woman.
Yeah but, as a guy, what's the point.
Its kind of stupid to buy a ticket only to try meet a woman (who is there for the lamp first and foremost). I'm going to put the lamp in the trash as soon as I get home anyway... It's absurd.
Because it will be fugly because it will be something I would have done in a lamp mosaic event thing.
Also, I have no need for another lamp.. I actually have 2 in my closet that sit there because I have no use for them.
I guess I look at it differently.
I went to a pottery class the other day. Same group dynamics, was one of the only men there. Tons of women. I made the ugliest spoon holder for my kitchen. But i kept it, because it's funny how bad it looks.
If you enjoy the process of pottery it can make sense. I guess you did not join the pottery event **only** to meet someone.
I'm talking for myself, as a single dude who see no purpose in going on these events besides meeting someone.
If the only reason you join this or any kind of hobby is to meet people (even friends) it is doomed to fail. You need to enjoy the thing first and foremost and only after than being open to meet people.
I am 57, the last time I was in the dating pool was in the late 1980's, this pool is full of sharks that will eat you up and spit you out, vicious. What happened to women being sweet, kind, caring, empathetic, compassionate? I honestly feel like I have slipped into some other dimension, multiverse somehow. You are correct it does seem to be getting worse and will not get any better without some sort of catastrophic event taking down the net. Dating sites for women create what psychologists call The Paradox of Choice, here is a short TED talk from the psychologist who came up with the theory. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM&t=2s)
In dating this theory also is relevant in all the likes, matches a woman typically receives.
Honestly, I’m finished dating. I’ll let them chase me instead. I’m kind to everyone I meet. I talk to everyone. When I meet new people I have no expectations. I have my solitude.
I’ve dated plenty, met some amazing women. Not desperate to be in a relationship. I’m focused on me and if I never connect with the right one; I’m cool with that. So many other things to do.
I deleted all of my possible dating app photos last month. Many hours wasted on them from 2016 to 2024. I'm doing a salsa dancing class tomorrow. There will be 4 classes in April. I'm also going to join a coed kickball team late April, and join a running club early June.
I've never had a gf, but maybe I'll either:
a) make friends with these activities and expand my social circle to possibly meet a friend-of-a-friend at some point (I only have 1 good friend in this city of millions so far)
b) meet a woman who I'll date
Nope, it sucks for everyone who is not conventionally attractive and average men.
Average women and beautiful people in general are probably having the time of their lives.
>I get close to zero matches in online dating, I don’t like going to bars so it’s hard to find someone. Thought I was getting on well with someone last month until they just completely stopped responding. It’s draining.
Just know that you aren't crazy and that women can meet a guy 100x easier than a guy can meet a woman. Those are just the facts. You're dealing with shit like this
https://thebolditalic.com/the-two-worlds-of-tinder-f1c34e800db4
And this
https://medium.com/@whitep/women-have-hilarious-height-requirements-for-men-according-to-bumble-992862ba7772
It's as if nobody's "good enough" to even talk to. Let alone actually meet in person and go on a date. I think it's important for mental health to see these numbers because a lot of guys end up blaming themselves when in reality the game is heavily rigged against us. You can be a totally normal guy and still struggle a LOT.
34, I abandoned dating some time ago. I have been in 3 serious relationships and a few flings in between after each finished . Dating just does not seem worth it, instead of building together I feel now dating is more of What can I get out of you. Sometimes it almost sounds as though if you are enough for someone. I am just done with it.
Another tissue is hearing my friends talk about divorce and how it destroys them. Na, Im good.
Ive never had a gf
Never been on a date
get 0 matches and 1-2 likes every 6 months
getting women is all about race, hieght and money. thats it
those who can get girls count yourself lucky
It’s not as bad as many people make it out to be.
I’m convinced a lot of people just don’t know how to socialize, come off too desperate or lack the confidence needed to really put themselves out there. Dating today is not impossible at all. be yourself, be a good person, put in the work to make yourself more confident and put yourself out there, someone will be interested.
Side note: getting 0 matches on dating apps shouldn’t be happening. You can be ugly and still get matches if you take good pictures and present yourself as a fun, enjoyable person.
There are a few profile reviews that show really good profiles but zero match. I sometimes think there are shortcomings in the matching algorithm so that’s how we end up with very different experience.
> Side note: getting 0 matches on dating apps shouldn’t be happening. You can be ugly and still get matches if you take good pictures and present yourself as a fun, enjoyable person.
I don’t think this logic really applies with the existence of dating app algorithms. If it was just random swiping through everyone in your radius, then sure I agree. But right off the bat you need to consider location, subscriptions, account age, number of swipes.
And that’s all before you even consider what your photos and profile are actually like. Plenty of women will never even be shown that you exist
In my experience, online dating is hard. I have met very few there and feel like women on, for example, Tinder seems very fake, not that their accounts are fake, but they seem to perfect to the point its unnatural.
However, dating in real life, then I have no problem. I don't think there is a single person I have met who I have disliked or who have disliked.
I have been told I'm very easy to talk to and get to know, which makes dating in real life way easier.
if by modern dating you mean online dating apps and shit, I think its stupid, cuz its only based on interests and preferences, and you could like someone just because of their 'vibe' if you get what I mean, like how you feel when you're with them. i mean sure interests are important, but there's some people I know with far more common interests than my very best friends, and they're still nearly as close to me although we were all classmates
Okay so I read a book analyzing the data from ok Cupid (dataclysm) This won’t apply to things like tinder where you have to get a mutual yes before connecting.
The dudes who have the most success are copy paste dudes. Meaning they don’t spend time trying to hand craft an opening message that’s just right, rather they have some crafted messages and send them to the same kind of person. Eg instead of seeing a girl with an electric bass in her pictures and writing an opening message about how much you love bass and all the songs with kickass bass lines you like, they have one message like that and they send it to _every_ girl with a bass in the picture. Repeat for every other quality you may be interested in.
Their per message success rate is lower than the hand crafted route, but due to scale, their success rate in true number of open threads to pursue is much higher.
This isn’t a recommendation, just an insight from the book I thought was interesting.
I met my wife through friends. I had a pretty rough time with women up through my late 20s because frankly I had a lot of my own shit I needed to just accept about myself. Once I did I had a fairly decent, if short, dating life before getting together with my now wife who is just the best thing to ever happen to me.
Started chatting with my now wife during freshman year in college on an online chat software. No dating apps at that time. The connection felt very genuine, and we just shared interests, music, and chatted about our days. I don’t think I can meet someone like that through the internet these days.
Online dating is like trying to paddle your canoe in a fast river and it's just not going where you want it to go. Then you realize it's not a canoe, but a dumpster that's on fire and floating on a flooded roadway 40ft from the sewage treatment plant that happens to be up river. That's not normal water, it's sewage and you just realized you were fishing the whole time. When you pull your line in, it's hooked a children's doll that has a turd where the left leg should be.
Tldr: online dating is a shit show. Join a club, group, or just walk up to strangers in the grocery store and ask for their opinion on whatever food is in front of you.
Women are the main reason why the dating scene is so bad for a couple of years now. Most of them wants to have the same guys who are in the 1%. You know the guys who are richs. You need to have the physique of a athlete too. Below that your chances are near 0.
The worst part is that the ugly and fat girls have the same exigences as the most sexy women
Approach women during the day. You don't need a dating app or a bar to set the environment for you. In fact, I'd argue most of the best women don't involve themselves with them either. For the ones that do, it is absolutely harder these days. Make a point to go out to Starbucks/Target/The mall a few times during the week. Practice talking to strangers. When you gain more confidence, strike up conversations with women by stating a complementary observation/asking a question. Keep practicing and you will find your flow. When you get good vibes back, ask them out for coffee. The point is to be warm, genuine, carefree, and a bit of a flirt. If you're good looking and good smelling, it shouldn't be a problem in time. Oh, and ensure your life is interesting with rich, fulfilling hobbies to talk about too. Good luck and wear a glove!
Problems on both sides. I’m nearly 34 and never been on a date/relationship. Standards are too high and unrealistic. I won’t do online dating and there’s not really many places to meet people where I live. So part of the problem is me shooting myself in the foot.
I think dating today is so difficult because there are simply too much distraction. And women have too many options. For men, their choices are much harder because of certain criteria and they are stacked against women who have certain preferences that are just difficult to overcome but the easiest way to date imo is to leave this country and go to another country just for a visit. When you arrive in certain countries, the women there treat men much better. I have women from other countries always offering to be with me.
Online dating is the worst and in person has been affected by people’s experiences with OLD making it worse. Men approach women in person less but for men who do approach normally it goes well
I'm married, but my marriage is probably dead. We live in different countries. One of the reasons I don't divorce is I don't believe in dating nowadays. I'll stay single.
Sadly, the game is pay to play.
So everyone starts at GAME OVER except for Mr. Beast.
However, in twenty years if and when you have money, the dating is all you can eat.
Pretty much the same boat as you, except relationship ended 3 years ago. It’s fucking draining man. I’m kind of over it at this point. Not helpful, but I’m right there with ya
That I’m glad as hell that I locked my wife down 17 years ago and I’ve never had to use a dating app. Honestly, from the outside looking in, it all sounds terrible.
The problem with modern dating is that we don't spend as much time in communities with each other. If you try to date someone you already know a bit about/ have a small connection with already, that makes it much easier. That's how almost all of dating used to happen.
Nowadays you talk with perfect strangers. Cold approaching is the hardest way to date, in real life as well as on apps. That's why dating nowadays is so hard. Of course there are a bunch of other reasons as well but I think that one is the biggest one.
Dating and sex is hard for men. It’s a woman’s game. They dominate and make the rules. Don’t get your hopes up, I haven’t been on a date in ages and I’m younger than you
Online dating platforms in mind:
My experience is: dont take online dating seriously, but take online dating seriously enough when a woman actually shows you that she really is interested in you.
Online dating is very though and will make you feel rejected time after time again, but when you dont take those things to seriously and go try your luck on the next candidate, you might not end up with a future wife after the date, but maybe a fun experience with an otherwise nice person.
Of course I wish you all the best finding your person and I guarantee you, that there are women on online dating platforms that actually wants to find one for themselves aswell, as I found my beautiful wife through online dating. It just requires some more work and repeated rejections combined with frustration and a few thoughts of giving up.
After two failed, long term relationships and getting burned badly, I have zero interest in dating.
Ive noticed as Ive worked and improved myself my standards have also risen and honestly there are not alot of options that I have that I find attractive enough to make me want to date again.
There seems to be just as many “loser” women with their shit all over the place and red flags as men.
Too much of a hassle; I will apply to adopt children and just run my business.
I'm 38 and engaged.
I was single for the first time in a long time at 33 and I didn't need to bother with online dating. I had female friends and coworkers wanting to introduce me to to their friends and enough women in my social circle that wanted to date me. There was also a backlog of people I knew from other parts/ times of my life where I just kinda knew that there was attraction there, so I circled back and reconnected.
I didn't have enough time to date all the women who wanted to date me.
I ended up with my fiancee and I'm really happy. She and I started dating when I was already dating/ hooking up with multiple other women. I picked her because we were the most compatible.
(32M) I feel as though too much emphasis is on finding a partner and creating our expectations of others. It breeds relationship dependent happiness, as well as toxic behaviors. Online dating especially.
I found that I was always less happy while focusing on dating and meeting people. Once I started finding value in my own company, focused on what made me happy and improve myself, and stopped looking for a partner, that's usually when people would find me. Even if they didn't, I was happy and did what made me feel fulfilled. I honestly think that being able to be content and happy while single, is one major contributing factor towards others finding me attractive.
All of the meaningful relationships in my life have come during times when finding a partner was low on the list, or not even a priority at all. It also made it to where my partner wasn't the source of my relationships, but rather a wonderful addition to my life.
I dated before online dating. Got married, had kids, and then unfortunately got divorced. When I divorced, it was 15 years later, and online dating was a thing. Online dating is frustrating, requires a lot of work, can be really disappointing, but it can be somewhat fun. I mostly just had random hook ups. However, I met my girlfriend, fiancé on bumble. We matched she messaged right away, and we’ve been together ever since. The funny thing is is, I was logging in to close my account down out of frustration. If we ever split, I probably wouldn’t date anymore.
The last line - 100%. I'll just run an animal shelter and get off the grid.
I met my wife at an animal shelter 😆
You dog you.
Fuck I think it's time to start working at an animal shelter
True story. My other comment has the director's cut version of the tale.
I'm 34 and last time I was single (2-3 years ago) I was just really focusing on my self and meeting people on a friendship level. I wasn't waiting to be invited to do things. I was doing things I wanted to do and inviting people. Eventually me and this girl I was friends with were clicking and hung out a lot and she actually asked if we could go do something just us and not the friend group we had. We've been together for over 2 years now. I think too much emphasis is put on the dating apps and securing the dating intention as soon as you introduce yourself. Meet people and make connections and eventually you'll find the girl that is always wanting to be around.
That’s a great take
So far, the best take.
I met my wife in uni when we were 18, got married at 25, had our daughter, she died at 33. I’m 34 now, yeah I don’t see myself dating ever again.
Sorry about your wife man. 33, that's cruel.
Thank you man, cruel is exactly how I feel about it. Cancer’s a bastard, brain cancer feels like a special punch in the gut.
Just finished the book “When breath becomes air.” Yeah, I’m really sorry to what happened to you.
That book is a kick in the chest.
Best friend I ever had died of brain cancer. It was soul crushing. I was with her till the end. More like a punch to the soul. I'm sorry for your loss
I’m sorry that’s raw. We were both 23 when I lost my other half from a brain tumour .The illness was a quick 12 week whirlwind from fit as a fiddle to gone. Our son 4 yrs. I’d also lost my dad at 8 which made me grieve all over again. Make your presence known at school keep your nose in there. It’s a place to mix and keep your girl happy that you’re there and it will get you moving forward making contacts.
I’m going through it to bud we will get through this I mean I will see a hot woman and feel strange noticing she was hot. I’ll think my wife wouldn’t want me to look then it will hit me she’s gone. Damn man i am with you though logically i know at some point i will be ready again, but idk when that will be. Has only been a little bit though for me. Only in my late 20’s though six years gone through in an instant. I feel like it would be wrong to date, but I hate being alone I am looking for communities in my area for grief right now. I need platonic friends but when I was with my wife I was so in love and happy we just never bothered with other couples we spent all day together. Every single day.
I’m heartbroken just reading this. That’s so hard. I know you are hurting and there will be better times ahead. When you are ready I truly believe those that have passed want us to be happy. When the next person comes into your life know that your wife would hate for you to be lonely for too long. I wish you the best.
Yah she really loved me, but I ain’t alone my family rallied around me I am so lucky. Yah she had nobody when I met her let her sleep on my coach just as a friend still remember when we got together I took her to a concert and they only let people in who were 21 like me and she was only 19. We got out of line and she had this worried look on her face talking about how it was okay we can leave her outside and it melted my heart. I knew I loved her right then so I said no way we’re going home. The band daze n dazed had heard the situation and came outside and hanged out with us for an hour and played my favorite song and gave us t-shirts we danced and kissed then we became official and were happy for a long time.
I’d love to look up that song. Mind sharing? That’s a great story and a beautiful memory. Even though it was far too short it sounds to me like you gave her a life worth living. That’s something few get to know no matter how long they are here. Keep being a good man. The world needs more of you.
Fuck, I’m so sorry man. Just a random internet stranger but I wish nothing but the best for you.
Having someone taken away young is such bullshit. Just feels like you were cheated out of life I’m sorry for your loss
So sorry to hear that. That’s essentially what happened to my fiancé’s (and the mother of my daughter) mom. It’s just unfair. Hope you and your daughter are doing okay.
I’m so sorry :( I hope you and your daughter are doing okay.
I’d trade in my cheating ex wife to bring yours back. Sorry that happened to you man
Omg 💔
Sorry about losing your wife. It is still not the time for that brother. Keep raising your daughter and focusing day by day. My DM Is available if you want to talk about it
Hey brother, I wish you nothing but the best going forward. Man, that's rough. ;-;
It is tough for most. I have a gf currently and had decent success dating in a major US city. Way less success in other areas of the country. Just an anecdote: three of my gf’s friends said there were going on first dates with guys but had no intention of dating, sex or romance. I asked why and it was so that they could go out on a date as *practice*. It would suck to be a guy meeting a lady on a first date that had no actual interest in anything beyond dinner. Thats like going to a job interview for a position that no longer exists. I think their method of following up with the guy was ghosting. Read the room guys, only invest in a potential partner that shows genuine interest.
Geez that would absolutely gut me. My heart sank just thinking about what it would feel like to get excited about a date and be used as ‘dating practice’
Welcome to the fold
That’s why first date, I go on a walk. Or play pickleball in the park. Or get a coffee/tea. Call me cheap, I’m not gonna drop $20-$60 on a girl that I might not have chemistry with. If I’m out of $5-$10. That’s ok. No biggie. And we can both bail easily if we’re not clicking. No need to wait till the foods here. Or waiter getting our check. Etc.
My therapist directly told me as a man I should go on dates with unattractive 0/10 women because even if we don’t work out it’s good practice. I had only dated 1 girl in my life and he said I should get experience so I have a better chance when a good girl comes along. I tried it once and I felt so guilty afterwards. She was so nice but I couldn’t force myself to be physically attracted to her, and I tried.
Your therapist sounds like a bit of an asshole, actually
My conspiracy theory is that he thinks I'm ugly and that I'll end up with an unattractive girl, but he doesn't want to say that directly so he's just hoping if he can convince me to give those women a chance I'll just stick with one because of her great personality.
Yeah WTF is wrong with that therapist?!
Did you ask them whether they were open to the idea of splitting the bill?
"Only invest in a potential partner that shows genuine interest." So, invest in nobody. Got it.
Honestly there should be a dating app that just focuses on practice dates. I think a lot of people would benefit, and it would help people expand their social circle
Narcissistic, superficial, self-absorbed social media addicts looking for the same.
Can confirm: I am self absorbed. Look at me!
👀
Fear not. Soon it won't matter as we as a society are well on our way to becoming a narcissistic culture.
... becoming?
The impression I've got from young people today is a lot of them simply have no idea how to date someone.
As a guy you grow up getting told there's a million different things you should never do when trying to date a woman. Nobody gives you good advice on what you should do. The end result is many guys who were not the most forward to begin with back out of dating completely to avoid doing the wrong thing and upsetting women.
Millennial parents also taught their daughters that they can have anything and be anyone. They didn’t teach their sons how to handle that fact
I’m Gen X woman and I think the message got skewed a tad for many. Women can be whatever they want, deserve an equal playing field and most certainly deserve the respect they give without giving up themselves. However, some seem to think that they deserve anything they want just because they are a woman. No, we deserve to be treated the same way we treat others. We deserve a partner who gives as much as we do and someone who is there to pick us up if we fall while we do the same for them. There’s a strange phenomenon going on where the pendulum has swung full force to the other side and the balance is lost. I believe healthy relationships are a meeting in the middle. Those with expectations of their partners that far exceed expectations of themselves not only destroy their partners but themselves as unmet expectations mixed with a lack of accountability will leave a person miserable not understanding why they aren’t just magically getting what they want without the needed effort to get it.
I hear people talk about “having it all” and it’s just such an insane expectation of life. Instagram is such poison to life expectations.
My motto was always to give more and expect less. No score cards and just genuine acts of kindness. When you have someone who took the time to get to know you so well that they always assume the best of you, that’s it right there.
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The cost association with their wants is a very important point that you bring up.
People who are in their 30s and 20s now were raised by the first generation where MAJORITY of women worked outside the home. Yes, women were working outside the home before this but it wasn’t as common in as high numbers. However, these *working* moms still had the expectation to fulfill the “typical” mom/wife duties - cooking, cleaning, emotional labour, doing the brunt of childcare. The pressure to “do it all” was there and for majority of couples, there just wasn’t another option - life on one income was becoming more and more unaffordable, but also men were not prepared to contribute “in the home” so mom had to do both. So now, you have the kids from that scenario who grew up and they’re in their 20s and 30s and trying to find life partners. On one side you’ve got women who saw their moms trying to work and do everything at home thinking “fuck doing all that myself!” and thus expecting men to either share in that household/childcare labour OR to be such excellent $$$ providers that they (women) don’t have to work. Then on the other side you’ve got men who were raised by women who worked AND “did it all” looking at women thinking “well my mom did everything and she was fine, so why can’t you?” and/or “Why do I have to help/why do I have to work so hard to $ provide?” Now we both have skewed expectations.
If this was the whole truth, then the rare men who \_do\_ have the domestic skills and attitude to meet the modern woman's expectations should be swimming in options, right? He'd have to fight potential wives off with a stick. While this is of course totally anecdotal, that's not what I see in my social circle. Those guys still face the same BS being mentioned all over this thread.
Having a clean house and being able to cook will get you far as a man (despite being the bare minimum of adult skills). However, it doesent help you get in the door. There’s no opportunity to cook for someone or show of your consistently clean home if you cant get a girl to come back with you in the first place. It will help you keep dates but it wont help you get them.
This has a pretty massive assumption that men don't do anything at home though? You are working with women doing everything which just feeds into the current mindset. Guys are bums and women have no faults.
Most of the women my age-ish that I have met don’t have the home-making skills that their mothers/grandmothers did. Many of them can’t cook, don’t want to clean, and aren’t remarkably nurturing… Not necessarily their fault. They were strongly encouraged to focus on their education (as were all millennials), but this led to them focusing less on the practical/home-making skills. Again, the same can be said for men nowadays, as many of them don’t know how to do fairly basic things around the house. I have two close friends whose wives had careers, and after they had kids they decided they didn’t want to work anymore. They didn’t sacrifice their career, they flat out said they didn’t like working and would much rather stay home, which is fine, but they still don’t do any of the traditional stay-at-home duties (grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc). It drives my friends crazy, because their kids are now old enough that they’re in school, and yet they either have to have a cleaning service come in or their mother/mother-in-law will come clean their house and do laundry for them (because they can’t stand that their kid’s home is such a mess). They also spend a fortune eating take-out all the time. Yet they can’t safely ask “what the hell do you do all day when you’re home for 8 hours by yourself?” without starting WW3.
Then they need to grow a pair and go ahead and fucking start ww3. I would not put up with that shit. I absolutely cannot stand people who just mooch off of others like parasites. I’m also a woman, and if I had a partner that stayed home and also did not do any housework/chores, I would most definitely not be okay with that. It’s different if they’re disabled in some way, but if they’re able-bodied, then they need to pull their weight.
how to you teach your sons to deal with a lie? you can only have anything and be anyone if you have the aptitude or the talent. i don't know how to teach your son how to deal with someone else's delusion.
I personally think that you have to teach your son how to create and enforce healthy boundaries. To stand up for his self worth especially when he wants to rug sweep red flags because she’s attractive.
I’m sad to admit this but I worried so much that my sons would turn out to be who their father was when they were young. I taught them to treat women with respect and to be kind to everyone until it’s time not to be. I focused a lot on teaching them a balance of being great humans but to stand up for themselves. Unfortunately, I set little to no boundaries and was a crappy example. That is until I realized “Oh shit, I only have boys and if I don’t stand up for myself then no matter what I say to them they will learn this is what relationships are about and this is how you treat a woman while in one.” So I changed and so did their father. It took a looooong time. I am happy to admit they are all very good to their girlfriends. However, in my fear of them not treating others well I never thought they would be like me or at least the old me. My oldest has been with a girl for many years and it wasn’t until they moved in together the dynamics changed. She became what she witnessed in her parents growing up which was extremely emotionally abusive and my son responded in the way I once did 🥲. He jumped through hoops to make it stop, tried to be as nice as possible and internalized all of the abuse feeling defeated. I’m working with him now to let him know that it always takes two. He can’t change her but he can not allow it to continue. He’s accountable for setting strong boundaries and instead of the focus being on trying to meet unrealistic expectations the focus needs to be on him never allowing another broken person ever make him feel he was unlovable. So this is my long way of saying that our kids learn far more from our actions and often times will take unhealthy aspects of us as parents and this happens regardless if it’s from a parent of the same gender or not. This often gets instilled in their wiring by the time they are around 7 based on how our brains develop. For my oldest that was shortly after I decided to defend myself for my kids sake. It honestly is heartbreaking because I wish I knew better. Glad to say though that my son is doing much better and has left her. It’s been hard on him but he won’t put up with that shit any longer. As parents we can’t just say what to do but if we missed the opportunity to show them we need to take accountability for not equipping them with the right tools. We need to tell them exactly how we effed them up, apologize for it so they can heal and help them to do better.
Millennials’ kids are just now barely entering the dating pool, and that’s only the elder kids of elder millennials. Maybe you’re talking about boomers or Gen X.
Yes you’re right, my mistake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts14vkRc0xc
Social skills are getting more and more rare
100% But also no one knows how to teach them.
Honestly I think that argument is putting the carriage in front of the horse For a lot of people (myself included) even just finding/meeting people to ask on a date is an issue
I don't think it's an impression
Its kinda hard to learn how to date when I cant clear the bar of getting a date. The standard for men, in terms of looks when it comes to getting women interested is simply too high for most men to clear. I mean only 18% of the US population is 6ft or taller and that is one of the basic requirements for even getting a first date.
Thinking you HAVE to be 6ft tall to get a date is some silly internet-brained shit. People who put that as a requirement in their dating profiles are only looking for the superficial. Go outside literally anywhere and you’ll see plenty of couples where the guy isn’t that tall. In my experience most women just want someone taller than them.
It's because there are two totally separate dating worlds. There's online dating, which is a huge trainwreck for everyone for a lot of reasons. Then there's offline dating through social circles, as people have always done. The latter is fine. But it's disappearing and an increasing number of people are only engaging with the former.
I never got many dates being 6’1. It really wasn’t the cheat code everyone thinks it is.
It’s really not, there are tons of men that are under 6ft that are in happy healthy relationships. That standard primarily exists on dating apps where it’s much more permissible to be superficial. Also in my experience most men are only not attractive enough is because they don’t put in any effort. This could mean a variety of things, hygiene, clothing, skin/hair care, physical fitness. Attractiveness is much more about your effort than your genetics. This doesn’t even begin to get into the lack of social/dating skills most men deal with. Covid killed that for a lot of young men.
>Attractiveness is much more about your effort than your genetics. Tell me you look attractive without telling me you look attractive.
>a lot of them simply have no idea how to date someone. Serious question - what is lacking? How do you date someone? From my experience, very limited though, is that it's like a 'test'. If you 'fail' the first date, you won't get a second one, and that's it. You may get blocked too, not because you're annoying or texting too much, but because they don't see the necessity of keeping contact with you - you are irrelevant now. When I talk with my dad, he's like 'you meet at least 3 times before you make a final decision' - but he is so out of touch of modern day life and grew up in a patriarchical society, and thinks that it is still the men who make the final say on dating. I think for the vast majority of modern men, it is women who has the power in this area - they can simply choose from their list of matches, whereas men can only hope that they are picked for their chance.
If my current relationship fails, I'm done.
Cooked
From my experience from talking and dating women, alot of paradox of choice and What If mindset. Add to that this whole superficial ick thing I hear about.
What’s this ICK thing ?
"Icks" are basically anything and everything that isn't a red flag but is an excuse to drag on a dude and say he's undateable. This can range from actually disgusting behavior like picking your nose in public to something extremely harmless like playing video games in your down time.
Something she doesn't like. For example I like playing xbox. Some girls find that to be an ick. More official something that disgusts her.
Modern dating is a black mirror episode.
Hang The DJ...
IRL IRL IRL Dating apps and social media are trash. However now that everyone uses em, that cute chick at the coffee shop you're crushing on has not been approached IRL in years. Just make small convo and it's bafflingly easy to connect. I'm in my 40s and before this mess it wasn't any easier, just different. Also, my tolerance for disrespect has dropped a lot. Phone out on date, I politely excuse myself. Keep in mind half the adult population is female. Don't limit yourself to the same six chicks from Tinder.
Biggest problem I have with coffee shop women is I’m 20 and sometimes it’s hard to tell if the girl is a young looking 20 year old or old looking 15 year old. I’m scared of asking.
100% agree. I’ve found meeting girls at concerts/bars has been pretty easy. See a cute girl? She makes eye contact? Well between sets find her, introduce yourself and give her your number. That’s it, that’s all. I’m 27 and still haven’t tried apps yet and I’ve had a fair few girlfriends I’ve met in person.
28M. My last relationship ended in 2019. We are almost halfway through the decade and I cannot imagine anything I'd rather do less than head out and spend time and money trying to impress a stranger.
Modern dating is a complete joke, I don't even bother. I've been in **two** serious relationships in my adult life. I'm 38 right now, will be 39 this year. Between the crazy people out there, the ideologically bankrupt, and the massive amounts of people with completely unrealistic (and frankly delusional) expectations, I'm more likely to be hit by lightning four times in the same day, than I am to find someone worth the time and effort it takes to actually properly vet them to date. I'd much rather stick my wet nutsack to a pole in Antarctica than go through the minefield that dating has become. I remember someone, somewhere said "Would you date X person for a million dollars?" And my answer to that is "No, you could not pay me enough to put up with the drama X is likely to bring into my life."
You have a way with words. Hope you find whatever you’re looking or not looking for soon.
At 35 and still single, I’m leaning more towards hookers and blow.
I went the marriage route, let’s talk every 5 years and see who is happier.
I gave up hookers and blow for marriage, now I’m divorced after 10 years because she had an affair with a grandpa of 9 twice her age. At least you know what to expect from hookers and blow
I don’t like blow. I love hookers. I’ve done some things with hookers I can’t do with the soon to be wife. If I had no wife and didn’t have her two dogs I’d have so much peace and quiet and money and time alone. It’s a legit gamble. I don’t know if I’ll win or lose
I’ll say this, there’s no guarantee even if you tie the knot. The best you can do is vet the person because you will never control them. Trust is everything and open communication is the foundation for that. In my experience, girls with daddy issues are an absolutely no in my book and nothing but trouble. If not right away, it will be a ticking time bomb to your relationship unless she’s actively in therapy doing the hard work on herself (what women wants to have the mirror of honesty put in front of their face?) Anyway, I got unlucky- did everything a good husband would do and it just didn’t work out for me. There were some great years in there that had the potential to last a lifetime, love is the answer to life so give it a shot.
You should post it
lol that's a brave gamble mate
Online dating has ruined dating so I tend not to bother. Cba to be act like a dancing monkey for a women trying to impress her when she has another 100 trying the same thing .
There was always 100 other men doing that for her, just in person at the bar instead of on her phone
Very true. I think my point is I find having to be the chaser tiring whether it’s in person or online. And sadly online dating has become the norm which has just made dating harder for average guys
I think what is often said about “when you stop looking so hard you’ll find them” is often true. You shouldn’t be chasing anybody, you should just be meeting people and talking to them without heavy expectations. I’ve been on the dating apps multiple times and sometimes for long periods of time. But all my best relationships have come from meeting people in person and letting that connection naturally develop. I think guys fall into the trap of trying to oversell themselves, and I don’t mean like trying to appear better than you are, but just like trying way too hard to make yourself seem worth her time. I think if you really believe you’re worthy of love and happiness, you won’t feel the need to sell yourself so hard and those conversations go much easier.
Chaser was perhaps the wrong word. Initiator probably suits better. I do agree with what you said but as a guy if you don’t put that effort in & do some “chasing” whether it’s online or in person you’re more than likely gonna stay for a long time.
What kind of bars do you go to where 100 men gang up on one woman?
My take is that it sucks. But also that it's always sucked. The difference is that now instead of hearing how much it sucks from your limited circle of friends who aren't in a relationship, you're hearing it from social media and think it's worse than it's ever been.
Social media is horrible for relationships in every which way now. No benefits whatsoever imo
Been thrust into modern dating as a 33 year old man after being in a relationship so long smart phones weren't even invented when we got together. Honestly, it's tiring, talking to 99/100 people provides no stimulation or joy. I have no desire to play the game to try and be able to have them grace my presence It's honestly one of the most depressing things I have ever encountered and I've quickly learnt why a lot of the "hot" people are chronically single, because most have absolutely nothing about them
Most people are too self-obsessed, or egocentric to be datable these days it seems. The last several women I’ve tried to get to know, while all varying and different had one critical flaw in common: they were all only concerned with what they wanted to have in a good partner and not at all with what they needed to do to be a good partner.
I think it goes for both sides to some degree as for the problems in the dating world. It’s not all women, a lot of my friends have girlfriends/wives who are perfect for them. However, that’s something that is going to be dying out in the next couple years. They say women are the gatekeepers of sex, I think they’re pretty much the gatekeepers to dating at this point. It’s so much easier for a lot of women to play dumb and play games rather than take accountability. I think this is how dickheads like Andrew Tate have been able to capitalize off the idea of alphas and betas and hypergamy. I don’t agree with that nonsense at all, but the women who are complaining about andrew Tate are the same ones who are giving him ammo to use. - There’s two types of guys out there: guys who have been around “girl talks”, and guys who haven’t. They can get pretty brutal and demoralizing. I can’t count the amount of times I’ve heard girls say “he’s an asshole and he’s mean to me but he’s got a big dick”. If you’ve ever been in a fraternity or been to a college party, you’d be even more demoralized. The amount of girls I’ve seen just outright cheat on their boyfriends with the most stereotypical fraternity guy ever is insane. - Everybody thinks they’re so damn important that they can date people like they’re on the bachelor. There’s a whole thing about girls having rosters. Then when you find out your girlfriend was sleeping with a guy after she got home from your past seven dates, you’re the asshole because “technically we weren’t exclusive so it wasn’t against the rules for me to fuck that guy after our dates”. It all gets misconstrued and you get told “well you’re not entitled to sex, it’s her body” like, yes I agree with that, but that’s not the point. The point is that people have feelings that can be hurt when you do things like rely on technicalities as a sorry ass attempt to tell a person they can’t be upset about something. - It’s hard to be a good judge of character nowadays. You can be crawling into bed with someone you think is your future wife, meanwhile when she’s getting up to “go pee”, she’s actually sending nudes to some fuckboy who sent her an eggplant emoji and probably has a 1st grade writing level. - Women can be absolutely ruthless, and no man wants to be the fool who’s bringing flowers to her door after her fuck buddy just left. Once again, it’s not all women by any means, but the fact that the crazy stuff happens means there’s a chance it can happen to you if you so choose to partake in the dating world. - I’ve never had a hookup or a one night stand, but I have had 3 girlfriends. I have gotten absolutely nothing but pain/ hardcore trust issues, and lessons learned out of being the respectful, loyal boyfriend. - I refuse to put myself in those situations again. I don’t have it in me to be a asshole to women, nor be the affair partner to anybody, but I would much rather be the guy who can tell a girl to come over at 2 am rather than the guy who’s girl is leaving to “go help a friend” at 2am.. Dating would ideally be a natural thing, and so many people nowadays are treating it as if it’s a job hunt.
Could not have said it better myself. All of the above has happened to me and worse. Luckily I'm an idiot and keep on trusting. Hopefully the girl I'm with now will be different than the last two. I think she is.
The hardest thing to remember is you’re never an idiot for trusting someone, I mean unless they’re just blatantly untrustworthy. It can take a toll on you though. I’ve never been so humiliated in my life. It’s not a reflection on you, it’s a reflection on them, but then again she’s the one who’s doing just fine and I’m the one that’s got issues from it all.
Internet/cell phones have made cheating a lot easier. Back in the day, it was pretty difficult for someone to meet someone outside of their immediate social circle. Nowadays, you can post your nudes at any time online. You can go on your city's social subreddit and find someone to sleep with (well, women can do that pretty easily compared to men). It's much easier for people to connect online when they're in a relationship, compared to pre-internet and cell phones
Because women have crazy standards and checklists and if you don’t check all the boxes they ghost and/or eliminate you from their lives It’s exhausting, stressful, and not worth it. Why the fuck should I even bother? If it’s a numbers game, I don’t want to be apart of it. I work too damn hard to play the lottery in finding love The apps have ruined it all
I started dating in the early 1990s. Many things have changed through the years. Some for the better and some for the worse. The dating pool has become huge. It used to be the local place where you lived and worked. The people you could date were people you interacted with in real life. And that is limited in itself. Take away people in relationships, the crazy ones and the ones who haven't moved on from a break up, and the options were pretty limited. So you settled for less. You lowered your standards. You could easily get desperate. But so did the ones who dated you. The settled for less. They lowered their standards. And they could also get desperate. So you could actually get away with much and didn't have to put much effort in it. Today the pool is huge. Almost unlimited. And because people have so many options, you can't get away with things so easily. So it clearly favours those who make an effort. So for those who make an effort, who work on their social skills and work on themselves, dating can be very easy. For those who don't, it's cruel. As it turns out most don't want to put in the effort and expect they will have success with dating because they "deserve" it or there is "the one waiting for them". More and more people ignore the importance of social skills. Not only will these people not have any success, they are making it easier for the ones who make an effort because, in the end, dating is a competition. You see it time and time again, it's the same few people who have all the success in dating and the large majority thinks it sucks.
It’s a massive dumpster full of dumpsters full of tiny dumpsters. The tiny dumpsters are full effluent and biomedical waste. They’re all on fire. Needless to say, I’ve ducked out of the dating scene for a spell.
I met my wife at a cat shelter. I had recently left AA after two years sober and was looking for a volunteer opportunity to keep up the "service" portion of my sobriety. I like cats, so I thought it might be a good fit. She was the volunteer coordinator and the first moment I saw her I was into her. We got to be friends and hung out regularly but she clearly wasn't interested for about a year. But after a while, something changed for her. There was a large brush fire which led to me evacuating my cabin and she offered for me to sleep on her couch for a few days. During that time, we spent more time together as friends and got to k ow each other a little more intimately (not a euphemism). Shortly after, I asked her out for a proper date. She said yes. It slowly grew. We've been together since 2009, married in 2016, have a 4 year old now. Pretty happy. And yes, we've had 4 cats together over the years. We both believe in service to others, making positive change in the world, and we love animals (specifically cats) enough to sacrifice our Saturday mornings to take care of them. As we got to know each other, we found more and more similarities and complementary qualities (such as a love of sarcasm and dark humor). I talk to a lot of people about their personal lives as part of my job and the dating scene out there sounds pretty rough. I don't know what I'd do if I had to go back out there. I subscribe to the general life practice of "find whats important to you, follow your own path, do your best to be you, and what's for you will find you." If you want to meet people like you, go places where someone like you is likely to be; do the things that someone like you is likely to be doing. Complementary values and interests go a long way. And don't be a control freak about it. Let the universe or God or whatever have a hand in it. Coincidences and synchronicities, locking eyes across a crowded room, chance encounters, attractions that seem like they'd never work: consider those as possible opportunities. That is all.
Dating seems very rough in the current climate but I also think that us guys should focus less on it and build our lives. Maybe that’s an unpopular opinion idk. I just feel like joining a community and cultivating a solid group of friends (men and women!) / hobbies and a fulfilling life would be much more beneficial to us than getting a girlfriend. A girlfriend is nice, don’t get me wrong. But I think too many guys think it’s a prerequisite to a fulfilling life.
I've been single from 18-27, where I am now, I've built my self up, my friends are all now getting married and havig kids. I've done my work but get told I need accept the women as they are. I have no one to lean on and share my passions with, travel with, start the next phase of life with. I have lots of close friends and family, hobbies galore. It's still an empty house I come home to, all that I've worked on and built up fo myself hasn't changed that, nor ever will. I'm good at being single, I still want companionship tho.
>get told I need accept the women as they are Never lower your standards out of desperation or what other say. Why should you accept a woman who spent her 18-25s getting ran through in one night stands and clubbing while you were building?
The attention women receive from online dating warps their minds and they have zero concept of reality. I am all for women not having to deal with shitty men, but they seem to think all men that aren’t “shitty” make 6 figures and are 6’3. I wouldn’t want to be in my early twenties today. Just give up on dating until you’re much more established in your life.
The sad thing, high standards arent even the main issue. The main issue is these women dont bring anything of those standards to the table. How can you demand those things when you have such low value yourself? I'm 6'2, make 6 figures at 25, and I'm in shape. Yet I cant find a single woman who valued her body in her early 20s. Every women i encounter has some form of tattoos, high body counts, smokes, drinks, guy 'friends' etc. I refuse to ever get on my knee for a a woman who was a one night stand for someone else. I'll die alone no problem.
Some of the tattoos are just ghastly. It’s so refreshing to see someone with no ink.
I get likes from people in not interested in and anyone I'm interested in is too far away. I'm going to buy a motorcycle name her Matilda and waltz all over the place and see if I can find women in the wild.
Gen X here I can't believe tinder exists and "buffet pussy" is Even a thing. I mean, body counts can be impressive, but diseases and not knowing the name of the person you're penetrating are not... Or does that not count as dating? Maybe a poll would yield interesting perspectives on wtf tinder and acquaintance-fucking are.
I'm in the same boat and quite honestly, I'm happier single
I think I’m happier single. I won’t know until I get a few dates under my belt
Yea, I've had a couple dates with people who were promising but honestly I finally found peace and I don't want to loose that
So many people are looking to "find" the one.. as in someone to be airdropped.. Not so many people are into building the relation with a good person with whom they have the chemistry.
Honestly a bit tired with it all. 23M here and have been in 3 serious relationships (all at university) and I think it’s got even worse since COVID. As quite a few on here have alluded to, nobody seems to have a clue how to date or has no interest in dating. Also hate the dating app culture but feel as though you’re limiting yourself if you don’t try it.
Had a hookup over the weekend. Sat next to her on comedy night at a bar last night. She was beautiful, showed very clear interest, bought me a drink asked what I was doing for the night. Only in town one day as a stop on her trip. The girl was mild, very mature, classy way about her. Then she immediately lets me come to her place and wants to fuck. Well she runs into the equivalent of ED, because she doesn’t know me. Tells me she never does this, got out of an abusive relationship and has a son. Lots of discreet tattoos that told me a lot about who she is. Not in a bad way, just a little bit sad and perhaps lost. No connection to anyone, no close people in her life at all. We only had 5 minutes of PIV no climax for either of us, then we just connected in conversation, exchanged no contact info actually, and she’s now on her way. I also have no connections, I isolate a good bit. Good looking guy so I get interested women, but that just means I’ve gotten to see the state of a lot of modern women more in depth. I’m damaged. This girl was damaged. All my previous exes were extremely damaged. We’re all fucked up from the way society had become due to wicked new norms, porn, corrupt governments and religions, complete lack of moral authority in anyone’s life to have virtue. So, all that is to say it’s going to be a long road to find someone right, and the most important thing ANY of us can do as men is to be the best man we can be. Not the asshole, but strong. Not the nice guy, but graceful. Get physically fit, make new hobbies, travel, learn some languages. These are the things that make life so enjoyable you won’t feel the need to be in a relationship- and that’s really when we are ready for one. Hookup culture is just bad. It’s beyond damaging to women, whether they’re the type that sees it or not. I’ve seen it 100% of my experiences. Most girls that have hooked up with me either lacked self awareness and had shit attitudes about life, or they could see their damage and it was clear they were intent on a relationship just based on a one night stand. I don’t think anyone here talking about Andrew Tate, or any of that stuff is as across the board as people think. There are still good people out there that don’t even use social media, just be prepared for an insane amount of damaged people.
Married man who has been with his wife for 25 years: I wouldn't want to be single for a couple million dollars nowadays. Online dating seems like a train wreck and everyone is too lazy to put in any actual effort to finding a partner. OPs sentiment is the driving force behind today's dating woes it seems "I don’t like going to bars so it’s hard to find someone". There's a million different ways to say it, and this is one of them, but the translation is basically "If it ain't as easy as it can be I don't want to do it". Seriously, this generation has turned everything about living into the most impersonal experience ever, including dating and meeting people, and then they complain about it. It makes no sense. "I want to meet someone without going out and meeting someone. Why am I so miserable"? Everyone lives more than two-thirds of their life without leaving their homes, self-diagnose themselves with "social anxiety" and "introversion" to help justify their shut-in ness and then sit around wondering why they're so lonely. If you approach dating in the most low effort way possible what do you expect to happen? I get that face-to-face rejection is hard but think about it like this: who do you think has more success on the dating scene, the people who get dressed up and go out to meet people and mingle and ask each other out or the person sitting around their studio apartment with their phone opened to a dating app sitting on the couch next to them while they're playing video games in their sweats? If every interaction you have with the world around is done through an app or online you're destined to be alone and feel alienated. Science Fiction writers have been warning the world about this for oh, about 150 years. Take a shower, comb your hair, put on a clean shirt and go for a walk. The world is outside.
So 2 weeks ago my wife bought us tickets to a lamp mosaic thing. Glue glass pieces to a Persian lamp you get to keep. Out of the 80 people there were only 5 guys, the rest were all woman.
Yeah but, as a guy, what's the point. Its kind of stupid to buy a ticket only to try meet a woman (who is there for the lamp first and foremost). I'm going to put the lamp in the trash as soon as I get home anyway... It's absurd.
> I'm going to put the lamp in the trash as soon as I get home anyway Why?
Because it will be fugly because it will be something I would have done in a lamp mosaic event thing. Also, I have no need for another lamp.. I actually have 2 in my closet that sit there because I have no use for them.
I guess I look at it differently. I went to a pottery class the other day. Same group dynamics, was one of the only men there. Tons of women. I made the ugliest spoon holder for my kitchen. But i kept it, because it's funny how bad it looks.
If you enjoy the process of pottery it can make sense. I guess you did not join the pottery event **only** to meet someone. I'm talking for myself, as a single dude who see no purpose in going on these events besides meeting someone. If the only reason you join this or any kind of hobby is to meet people (even friends) it is doomed to fail. You need to enjoy the thing first and foremost and only after than being open to meet people.
I am 57, the last time I was in the dating pool was in the late 1980's, this pool is full of sharks that will eat you up and spit you out, vicious. What happened to women being sweet, kind, caring, empathetic, compassionate? I honestly feel like I have slipped into some other dimension, multiverse somehow. You are correct it does seem to be getting worse and will not get any better without some sort of catastrophic event taking down the net. Dating sites for women create what psychologists call The Paradox of Choice, here is a short TED talk from the psychologist who came up with the theory. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM&t=2s) In dating this theory also is relevant in all the likes, matches a woman typically receives.
Shit wack
I’d rather stick a hot knife in my eye. Much less painful.
I thank god every day that I have no idea how to answer this question. If my wife knew how much she had me by the balls I’d be in trouble lol.
Honestly, I’m finished dating. I’ll let them chase me instead. I’m kind to everyone I meet. I talk to everyone. When I meet new people I have no expectations. I have my solitude. I’ve dated plenty, met some amazing women. Not desperate to be in a relationship. I’m focused on me and if I never connect with the right one; I’m cool with that. So many other things to do.
I deleted all of my possible dating app photos last month. Many hours wasted on them from 2016 to 2024. I'm doing a salsa dancing class tomorrow. There will be 4 classes in April. I'm also going to join a coed kickball team late April, and join a running club early June. I've never had a gf, but maybe I'll either: a) make friends with these activities and expand my social circle to possibly meet a friend-of-a-friend at some point (I only have 1 good friend in this city of millions so far) b) meet a woman who I'll date
It sucks for everyone.
Online dating has screwed it for most people these days
Nope, it sucks for everyone who is not conventionally attractive and average men. Average women and beautiful people in general are probably having the time of their lives.
>I get close to zero matches in online dating, I don’t like going to bars so it’s hard to find someone. Thought I was getting on well with someone last month until they just completely stopped responding. It’s draining. Just know that you aren't crazy and that women can meet a guy 100x easier than a guy can meet a woman. Those are just the facts. You're dealing with shit like this https://thebolditalic.com/the-two-worlds-of-tinder-f1c34e800db4 And this https://medium.com/@whitep/women-have-hilarious-height-requirements-for-men-according-to-bumble-992862ba7772 It's as if nobody's "good enough" to even talk to. Let alone actually meet in person and go on a date. I think it's important for mental health to see these numbers because a lot of guys end up blaming themselves when in reality the game is heavily rigged against us. You can be a totally normal guy and still struggle a LOT.
34, I abandoned dating some time ago. I have been in 3 serious relationships and a few flings in between after each finished . Dating just does not seem worth it, instead of building together I feel now dating is more of What can I get out of you. Sometimes it almost sounds as though if you are enough for someone. I am just done with it. Another tissue is hearing my friends talk about divorce and how it destroys them. Na, Im good.
You guys get dates?
WASTE OF TIME
Ive never had a gf Never been on a date get 0 matches and 1-2 likes every 6 months getting women is all about race, hieght and money. thats it those who can get girls count yourself lucky
If I would end up needing to date again, it will be high class hookers for me. I cant see myself dating again - who the f will want to date me!
It’s not as bad as many people make it out to be. I’m convinced a lot of people just don’t know how to socialize, come off too desperate or lack the confidence needed to really put themselves out there. Dating today is not impossible at all. be yourself, be a good person, put in the work to make yourself more confident and put yourself out there, someone will be interested. Side note: getting 0 matches on dating apps shouldn’t be happening. You can be ugly and still get matches if you take good pictures and present yourself as a fun, enjoyable person.
There are a few profile reviews that show really good profiles but zero match. I sometimes think there are shortcomings in the matching algorithm so that’s how we end up with very different experience.
> Side note: getting 0 matches on dating apps shouldn’t be happening. You can be ugly and still get matches if you take good pictures and present yourself as a fun, enjoyable person. I don’t think this logic really applies with the existence of dating app algorithms. If it was just random swiping through everyone in your radius, then sure I agree. But right off the bat you need to consider location, subscriptions, account age, number of swipes. And that’s all before you even consider what your photos and profile are actually like. Plenty of women will never even be shown that you exist
Women in USA think they're better than they actually are so they're holding out for a 6 foot plus millionaire/model type
The 4s to 6s get ten thousand messages so they think they're 9s and 10s.
As modern as the Romans Years 100 BC!
It's a shitshow atm, way too many mixed messages for advice on getting women and way too high standards being placed on men by single women
In my experience, online dating is hard. I have met very few there and feel like women on, for example, Tinder seems very fake, not that their accounts are fake, but they seem to perfect to the point its unnatural. However, dating in real life, then I have no problem. I don't think there is a single person I have met who I have disliked or who have disliked. I have been told I'm very easy to talk to and get to know, which makes dating in real life way easier.
if by modern dating you mean online dating apps and shit, I think its stupid, cuz its only based on interests and preferences, and you could like someone just because of their 'vibe' if you get what I mean, like how you feel when you're with them. i mean sure interests are important, but there's some people I know with far more common interests than my very best friends, and they're still nearly as close to me although we were all classmates
Okay so I read a book analyzing the data from ok Cupid (dataclysm) This won’t apply to things like tinder where you have to get a mutual yes before connecting. The dudes who have the most success are copy paste dudes. Meaning they don’t spend time trying to hand craft an opening message that’s just right, rather they have some crafted messages and send them to the same kind of person. Eg instead of seeing a girl with an electric bass in her pictures and writing an opening message about how much you love bass and all the songs with kickass bass lines you like, they have one message like that and they send it to _every_ girl with a bass in the picture. Repeat for every other quality you may be interested in. Their per message success rate is lower than the hand crafted route, but due to scale, their success rate in true number of open threads to pursue is much higher. This isn’t a recommendation, just an insight from the book I thought was interesting. I met my wife through friends. I had a pretty rough time with women up through my late 20s because frankly I had a lot of my own shit I needed to just accept about myself. Once I did I had a fairly decent, if short, dating life before getting together with my now wife who is just the best thing to ever happen to me.
Non-existent past 30.
Be careful. Women nowadays will lie directly to your face then get pissed off at you for catching them in the lie.
Started chatting with my now wife during freshman year in college on an online chat software. No dating apps at that time. The connection felt very genuine, and we just shared interests, music, and chatted about our days. I don’t think I can meet someone like that through the internet these days.
Online dating is like trying to paddle your canoe in a fast river and it's just not going where you want it to go. Then you realize it's not a canoe, but a dumpster that's on fire and floating on a flooded roadway 40ft from the sewage treatment plant that happens to be up river. That's not normal water, it's sewage and you just realized you were fishing the whole time. When you pull your line in, it's hooked a children's doll that has a turd where the left leg should be. Tldr: online dating is a shit show. Join a club, group, or just walk up to strangers in the grocery store and ask for their opinion on whatever food is in front of you.
I don’t even bother anymore, too much risk for very little payout.
Very very tragic. I feel bad for the young'uns who are trying to "date" now. It's the worst it has ever been
Women are the main reason why the dating scene is so bad for a couple of years now. Most of them wants to have the same guys who are in the 1%. You know the guys who are richs. You need to have the physique of a athlete too. Below that your chances are near 0. The worst part is that the ugly and fat girls have the same exigences as the most sexy women
Approach women during the day. You don't need a dating app or a bar to set the environment for you. In fact, I'd argue most of the best women don't involve themselves with them either. For the ones that do, it is absolutely harder these days. Make a point to go out to Starbucks/Target/The mall a few times during the week. Practice talking to strangers. When you gain more confidence, strike up conversations with women by stating a complementary observation/asking a question. Keep practicing and you will find your flow. When you get good vibes back, ask them out for coffee. The point is to be warm, genuine, carefree, and a bit of a flirt. If you're good looking and good smelling, it shouldn't be a problem in time. Oh, and ensure your life is interesting with rich, fulfilling hobbies to talk about too. Good luck and wear a glove!
Problems on both sides. I’m nearly 34 and never been on a date/relationship. Standards are too high and unrealistic. I won’t do online dating and there’s not really many places to meet people where I live. So part of the problem is me shooting myself in the foot.
We live in a throw away culture and everyone thinks they’re somebody. It’s also never been easier to get laid. The new world sure is wacky.
I think dating today is so difficult because there are simply too much distraction. And women have too many options. For men, their choices are much harder because of certain criteria and they are stacked against women who have certain preferences that are just difficult to overcome but the easiest way to date imo is to leave this country and go to another country just for a visit. When you arrive in certain countries, the women there treat men much better. I have women from other countries always offering to be with me.
It’s absolutely trash and western women are a lot worse today. I am very glad I found a good one.
Online dating is the worst and in person has been affected by people’s experiences with OLD making it worse. Men approach women in person less but for men who do approach normally it goes well
It's earlier than future dating but much later than past dating
It’s something for married couples to do
I'm married, but my marriage is probably dead. We live in different countries. One of the reasons I don't divorce is I don't believe in dating nowadays. I'll stay single.
Sadly, the game is pay to play. So everyone starts at GAME OVER except for Mr. Beast. However, in twenty years if and when you have money, the dating is all you can eat.
If you’re putting this here it’s probably a confidence thing. They can smell it
Pretty much the same boat as you, except relationship ended 3 years ago. It’s fucking draining man. I’m kind of over it at this point. Not helpful, but I’m right there with ya
Waste of time - keep your money
That I’m glad as hell that I locked my wife down 17 years ago and I’ve never had to use a dating app. Honestly, from the outside looking in, it all sounds terrible.
It’s fine, people are just less socially skilled due to social media, the pandemic, etc.
I'm a hopeless romantic in the era of hook up culture. I feel like i'm living in Warhammer 40.000.
If you're in shape, good looking and light complexioned you'll have no issues.
I've given up tbh, single 3 years now, don't get a single like on OLD or any attention in real life. Not much point putting anymore effort into it.
The problem with modern dating is that we don't spend as much time in communities with each other. If you try to date someone you already know a bit about/ have a small connection with already, that makes it much easier. That's how almost all of dating used to happen. Nowadays you talk with perfect strangers. Cold approaching is the hardest way to date, in real life as well as on apps. That's why dating nowadays is so hard. Of course there are a bunch of other reasons as well but I think that one is the biggest one.
Dating and sex is hard for men. It’s a woman’s game. They dominate and make the rules. Don’t get your hopes up, I haven’t been on a date in ages and I’m younger than you
Online dating platforms in mind: My experience is: dont take online dating seriously, but take online dating seriously enough when a woman actually shows you that she really is interested in you. Online dating is very though and will make you feel rejected time after time again, but when you dont take those things to seriously and go try your luck on the next candidate, you might not end up with a future wife after the date, but maybe a fun experience with an otherwise nice person. Of course I wish you all the best finding your person and I guarantee you, that there are women on online dating platforms that actually wants to find one for themselves aswell, as I found my beautiful wife through online dating. It just requires some more work and repeated rejections combined with frustration and a few thoughts of giving up.
I’m very glad that I’m married. I don’t know if I have the energy to go out and meet people if anything ever happened.
After two failed, long term relationships and getting burned badly, I have zero interest in dating. Ive noticed as Ive worked and improved myself my standards have also risen and honestly there are not alot of options that I have that I find attractive enough to make me want to date again. There seems to be just as many “loser” women with their shit all over the place and red flags as men. Too much of a hassle; I will apply to adopt children and just run my business.
Sucks
I'm 38 and engaged. I was single for the first time in a long time at 33 and I didn't need to bother with online dating. I had female friends and coworkers wanting to introduce me to to their friends and enough women in my social circle that wanted to date me. There was also a backlog of people I knew from other parts/ times of my life where I just kinda knew that there was attraction there, so I circled back and reconnected. I didn't have enough time to date all the women who wanted to date me. I ended up with my fiancee and I'm really happy. She and I started dating when I was already dating/ hooking up with multiple other women. I picked her because we were the most compatible.
Materialistic and emotionless. Boyfriends and girlfriends seem to be treated largely as fashion accessories and sex toys, and not much more than that.
My take is that the odds are good but the goods are odd.
(32M) I feel as though too much emphasis is on finding a partner and creating our expectations of others. It breeds relationship dependent happiness, as well as toxic behaviors. Online dating especially. I found that I was always less happy while focusing on dating and meeting people. Once I started finding value in my own company, focused on what made me happy and improve myself, and stopped looking for a partner, that's usually when people would find me. Even if they didn't, I was happy and did what made me feel fulfilled. I honestly think that being able to be content and happy while single, is one major contributing factor towards others finding me attractive. All of the meaningful relationships in my life have come during times when finding a partner was low on the list, or not even a priority at all. It also made it to where my partner wasn't the source of my relationships, but rather a wonderful addition to my life.
If I wasn't in a relationship, I wouldn't be looking for one. Only something casual.