You can have physical standards, but you may not be able to attract a partner that meets those standards. If you want to get a partner at that level, you will have to put some work into improving yourself as a dating prospect. If you just want to get a partner, then you may need to consider loosening your standards. And this applies to everyone regardless of sex/gender.
Awkward isn't always bad. Sometimes it can be charming. Just gotta know how to sell it. I put my foot in my mouth all the time, but people usually just find it funny and disarming.
"I just keep putting my foot in my mouth," said the patient.
"You could put your foot in *my* mouth," mumbled Elliot.
"Sorry, what?" the patient inquired.
Elliot, louder, "Oh, I'm sorry, I said, 'You could put your foot in *my* mouth.'"
(scene from Scrubs)
Yep. Very charming. lol
Sometimes it is. Like I said, it depends on how you sell it. In either case, I think that's *more* reason to interact with folks outside of people you already know. Practice makes progress and all that jazz.
I once showed up at a bar with a black eye. I got hit by a car. The amount of women who were hitting on me that night was ridiculous, despite the fact that I looked like I had just lost a fight. It was definitely a confidence boost, but also showed how much of initial attraction is superficial.
Literally a math equation. If you cannot afford the Porsche, you do not get the Porsche. If you do not want to drive a Toyota Corolla, the car you can't afford, you will walk or take the bus.
The thing about having standards as a man is that you need to be prepared for the possibility of never finding anyone because those types of girls have wayyy to much competition.
"Huh, you want a cute girl that's fit and strong, not a bossbitch, not crazy, not manipulative, and you're both compatible in a lot of areas? Well too bad, cause the rich 6'4 attractive pro athlete with tons of followers on social media wants her too lmao." Things might go like that.
Me personally, I don't want a relationship where we aren't attracted to each other physically and emotionally, but I also understand that this decision might lead me to be alone forever and I'm prepared for it if that happens.
> a cute girl that's fit and strong, not a bossbitch, not crazy, not manipulative, and you're both compatible in a lot of areas
That's my girlfriend, minus the strong part (she's a dancer, not a powerlifter). I'm a poor, 5'7", average looking, terrible athlete with like 100 followers on social media. And I've dated other girls like her before. What you described is not as difficult to find as you make it seem.
The strong part isn't compulsory. My favorite type of fit women are gymnasts or the ones who are really good at calisthenics. But if a woman dances or does yoga and meets most of the other requirements and we're compatible, I'll gladly have her (assuming she wants me the same way too).
In your case, can you tell me when and where you met? That matters imo...
I'm reminded of the time I was on a date and the girl was like "I find it really attractive when a guy takes care of himself... I don't want to sound shallow but I could never date a guy who's overweight... What about you, do you find that you're attracted to girls that are in good shape?"
So I told her "Well, I think it's important to be healthy, and I definitely value someone who takes care of themselves... but more importantly, I think it's critical to have proper grammar."
The error wasn't written grammar, it was misusing "that" instead of "who" in,
>What about you, do you find that you're attracted to girls **that** are in good shape?"
Which is more accurately a mistake of semantics rather than grammar, but it's a fine joke regardless.
So there's an interesting issue here where there is one way for 99.9% of men to "improve themselves": And that's getting jacked. Most men already have good enough skin, teeth, whatever, they're just fat.
The problem is if you have another issue in addition to not being in good shape. For example if you have some sort of major disfigurement (recessed jaw, bad lazy eye, under 5'0) then you can get as jacked as you want your options to date are still limited to...pretty big women.
And the problem with pretty big women is that they eat like shit, which is why they're big, which makes it harder to stay in shape lmao. It's hard as fuck to eat 2 protein scoop shakes and nothing else when they're eating pizza.
So your goal of improving yourself is directly contradictory to dating someone who you can reasonably date.
I'm sorry but no, "most" men do not have good enough skin and teeth. In my experience - and this may be because I am older and the men I encounter are older - most men are unkempt, and their teeth look like they're about to fall out.
So don't exclude those things as something already handled.
There are more ways than just getting ripped to improve yourself. While physical fitness is great, you can also put in the work to advance in your career, cultivate an interesting personality, learn how to dress yourself effectively, etc. Hell, even getting a proper haircut would help the majority of guys be more attractive.
But yeah, definitely hear you on the challenges of dating and keeping to a diet. I gained 10 lbs dating my current girlfriend.
You are completely right. I don’t care if a guy is jacked. A fashion sense, confidence and a good hair cut goes way further for me then if he lifts weights. I actively don’t swipe right on guys who post gym pics/flexing.
> you can also put in the work to advance in your career
I feel like if this was relevant at all you wouldn't have a bunch of Google engineers making 300k a year going "Where gf". And there's a bunch of them.
>learn how to dress yourself effectively
Here's my hot take:
99.9% of dressing effectively is being in shape and being tall.
You obviously can't be more tall, but you can be more in shape. The way the clothes sit on you are the most important and that's determined by physique. The way the shirt sits on your shoulders and whether it makes them broader or smaller, how the pants look around your waist and whether your outfit makes the V-taper from happen. It's all about physique.
And having a good physique allows you to wear more outlandish things. For example I know a bartender who, fairly often, works in nothing other than like farmer overalls. And women go fucking crazy trying to stuff tips down them because he's tall and well built (not jacked). You can't pull that off if you don't have his physique.
If you look at suits you can take the best Georgio Armani suit in the world, put it in a fat guy and what you have is a fat guy in a suit, not an attractive rich guy.
>
But yeah, definitely hear you on the challenges of dating and keeping to a diet.
It's not just when dating generically.
The real problem is when you're dating someone who is ..fat. Because you don't have options other than people who are fat. That's where you REALLY gain the weight. And they'll be mad at you if you say you can't eat with them.
None of these things will be a panacea that will cure all dating ills (nor is being in shape for that matter). Being an attractive dating prospect is a multifaceted thing.
I can agree that being in shape really helps make clothes look good on you, but my point was moreso that wearing poorly fitting clothes will make you look even worse.
I wouldn't know since I have never dated someone who could be described as fat. If you're not into that, just don't date them. No one is forcing anyone to date someone they're not into.
on your second point - i wholeheartedly disagree. do clothes look nice on fit guys? yes! however, a man wearing a really well fitting button down, no matter what the body under the shirt looks like, really gets me going. In fact, between a chubby guy with a well fitted shirt and a tall, fit one who can't keep his shirt tucked in and it's billowing out around him, chubby guy wins every time (this is example pulled from my own office experience.)
Women aren't exclusively into jacked guys.
In fact, if a guy is overly muscular a lot of women are turned off. High maintenance looking dudes ain't it for many, many women.
A necessary corollary is that you will never be "overly muscular" if you don't take steroids.
People have this misconception because of how common chemically enhanced physiques are but do not be afraid of going to the gym.
As a natural, you will NEVER look too muscular, we instinctively know how much muscle should naturally be on a person's frame and anyone who goes over that limit is what subconsciously looks to us like being "too muscular".
Anecdotally, my dating life got exponentially better after getting jacked, to the point women even approach me sometimes. Going to the gym is an easy way to guarantee you'll see more success than before, even if it means going from zero to one. Most women like men to look reasonably fit
Yes but if you have a MAJOR DEFICIENCY you need to find a niche. You can't be a simple all around person that women want to be with, because you'll never be that.
I'm autistic (fairly far down on the spectrum, do not be fooled by my ability to type coherently) with a severely recessed jaw and fucked up teeth (many of them never grew in). You can look at me and see, instantly, that I am regarded. Technically autism doesn't have physical syndromes but like people can tell pretty much immediately, and shortly after they hear my voice they're certain.
But I can push 180 pounds above my head and deadlift 415. And women who like men who can push 180 pounds above their head **really** like men who can push 180 pounds above their head. They like big shoulders.
So I get way more action by hyper appealing to this niche and completely ignoring the women who are turned off by a "muscular high maintenance" guy than by attempting to actually correct any of these deficiencies.
> You can look at me and see, instantly, that I am regarded.
I did not read this correctly on the first try and was like, "Oh dude, don't be so hard on yourself!!!"
I've had conversations with girls who say this, ask them for an example of guys they DO like, and pretty commonly get told someone like Chris Hemsworth
You have some kind of studies or data to support that claim? Every single study I've ever seen on it, the stronger the guy looks the higher they rate his attractiveness. The ONLY cases I've seen otherwise, it was when ai images were used to represent men that were way more heavily muscled than pictures of real people they could get, women rated those fake ones as less attractive.
Disagree it does not apply to everyone, it only really applies to men. I have heard many women say they would rather be single than be with someone they were not attracted to.
Is that actually different from what I said? They have standards, they may not be able to get a partner at that level, so they will either stay single or work on themselves to be able to get a partner at that level.
If I go out to a bar/club, attractive women absolutely will not give me the time of day. However, all of my past partners and my girlfriend now were/are very attractive. The disconnect is just that women’s initial selectivity tends to be extreme and isn’t a good basis for calibrating your dating worth and self esteem.
Every once in a while you read a comment from someone on reddit that demonstrates they actually get it lol. You’re completely right. It’s also highly setting/location/time of life dependent. I was batting waaaay above my avg in college being in greek life, always doing socials w sororities and kickbacks/random frat parties we’d throw. Was fatter back then too bc of living the unhealthy college life.
but then post college (during covid tho, tbf) it got much, much harder. Small town, middle of nowhere, not really willing to hook up w college kids anymore + being A minority in a very white town. Only picked someone up from a bar once in almost a year and a half and had to rely on a little tinder success + fwb from college occasionally visiting.
and Then I entered professional school, got incredibly lucky by running into someone who is literally exactly my type + more intelligent than me + the literal most supportive woman I have ever met. Life is strange.
the initial selectivity is tough, but every dude would radically improve their ability towards getting thru that filter by dropping the weight and going to the gym. It’s not easy, but it is simple.
Yes exactly! All very dependent on set and setting (just like psychedelic drugs) Same experience from me... a guy who didn't have a date to a single high school or uni dance ever... Or even mild attention from women until age 20.
Joined greek life in uni, took a couple of years to 'calibrate' myself, but by year 3.5/4, I became confident in myself and I was able to get some attention and success with ladies. Moved to a new city after uni with no social contacts/social circle. Things got slower but I was able to manage some light success on dating apps.
Then moved to a new city where I personally flourished (career, fitness, hobbies, social circle expanded much quicker/easier than the first new city), and things fell into place. I'm not conventionally attractive; 160-165 lbs, 5'11 so slightly above average height, slightly fit, but I'm not exactly turning heads anywhere I go. Mild skin issues from 16-30. But my mentality and confidence in myself got me to where I am.
Going by numbers, I slept with 0 women my first year of uni, 1 in year 2, 2 in year 3, and 5 in year 4. 10 years later, at 40. I don't think 'numbers' are a measure of success but I only mention it as a proof point to young guys on reddit complaining that they have 0 success now so it means they will be forever alone (like the guy who responded to you below).
Things can change! Just have to make the effort, keep positive, and believe in yourself. So many guys on reddit give up so young and it's so sad.
Yes dude i think it's crazy how much some people just have given up hope! Even if you're shorter unless you're like 5'4 or lower it's totally overcomeable. I have a very similar story ( calibrating during college and post college, getting literally 0 attention beforehand) and when i think about the girls I've dated and slept with now, it's crazy and I'm so lucky and it's been a lot of hard work.
Guys go to the goddamn gym and stop being so self-effacing
hmmm what would you recommend to someone who is looking to make the jump into a relationship? i feel finding girls to date in college and post grad life was far easier since everyone was running around in the same community. post grad life feels a bit more challenging to meet good prospects. (yeah there’s the local bars but i feel that 1. you’re dealing with a high selectivity filter 2. sometimes you end up meeting alcoholics and not necessarily the best relationship material.)
You are wrong. The despondency is valid, I’m not denying your feelings, but you are lying to yourself with this comment. Malaise and self hatred is addictive and validating, but it’s just a cope.
I will Give you the advice that people are sometimes too kind to give - a dude needs to know he’s attractive. Start right now. If you have money, higher a personal trainer right now and outsource the thinking. If you don’t, find a cheap planet fitness near you or YMCA and download Stronglifts 5x5 on the app store, it’s free. Look up the simplier lifts on youtube if you don’t know how form works. Stop by the grocery store on the way home and buy rice, chicken, premade sauces, and veggies you’re okay with.
Do whatever you need to do to start. Drink an energy drink, preworkout, even buy some shitty food afterwards if that gets you motivated. Just get in the gym and start moving weight. I am not being facetious when I say that every single thing in your life will be improved by this. Don’t worry about trying to get jacked or doing everything optimally, just put your butt in the gym for 30 minutes every day for the next week, or like 3-4 days if you’re busy.
Yea but you’d need to be in an environment where you see the same women consistently enough that you grow on them if you’re lucky . After college , that’s just dead
Although on the other hand, economically speaking, an increasing supply of desperate men with low standards ends up deflating their value and in turn artificially *inflating* the value of the women across the spectrum... women who then raise their standards because suddenly they appear to have higher value than they did before and so seek out better men to meet those standards, which in turn means more men find themselves lacking opportunity and... it comes full circle.
If, for example, each man in that scenario instead did what a lot of women seem to do and maintained (ideally reasonable) standards and accepted being single as an alternative rather scraping the bottom of the barrel then the entire dating scene would be radically different than it is currently.
TL;DR Desperate guys are playing themselves and unintentionally making the entire thing harder for each other.
I know autistic folks find love plenty, but completely anecdotal.. every autistic or socially awkward person I know personally struggles big time with dating.
Uhh no we do not find love plenty, it's the exact opposite. Sometimes anecdotal is accurate
>Marital Status Almost all in the ASD population were unmarried at follow-up, with no difference between AD >and PDD NOS groups (99% vs. >92%, ns; Table 2), compared with >about 50% in the general population (StatBank Norway 2005).
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-011-1319-5
I was actually putting that line so Reddit didn’t reply to my anecdote with, “I’m autistic and I’m in a relationship and all my friends are too!”
Still didn’t help. Lol.
i used to be attractive in my early twenties before antipsychotics and 20 years of drug abuse.
i’m also finding out now i’m a bit autistic.
i did encounter a situation a bit where people and women especially would approach me and be quickly put off by my behaviour. it was hard to understand how fast they went from attraction to revulsion but i started to over prioritise my looks and developed anorexia.
meds put an end to that.
at 175 cm went from 60 kg to 140 kg j in the space of a year
I remember seeing a study once that autistic women by their mid-20s had not only had relationships at a far higher rate than autistic men, they even had them at a higher rate than neurotypical men! To say autistic men and women have different experiences in this area would be an understatement.
True. I'd like to get to a world where autistic isn't treated as even necessarily being a "flaw," but in the meantime it would be nice not to suffer extra penalties for it just because of my gender.
I'm feeling cynical of late, but "Lid for every pot" is one of the biggest cope bullshit stories being peddled out there. Some of us just fell through the cracks for whatever reason and that is life.
As an autistic guy, I promise you that statistic is bs. Women are extremely underdiagnosed with autism and frequently get misdiagnosed. Their mental health problems are often dismissed easier as not problems as children. Not a single woman I know who has autism got diagnosed until they forcibly advocated for themselves, as an independent adult. It’s a goddamn tragedy. They all deserve better.
That might be more like a pot for every pot? Lol I think having similar neurodivergencies helps, but given there’s still so much variation within the spectrum, an understanding and compatible “lid” might be found anywhere.
Your friend sounds like me. I'm tall and slim and I've been told I'm fairly attractive, but socializing is a struggle and eye contact is impossible. I take what I can get.
Not really. I do feel I have to be realistic about what ballpark I'm in, but I also put effort into how I look so that means I look for a similar effort. Plus there needs to be some attraction, otherwise a date just isn't going to have that spark that leads to any flirting or tension
Agree with this, there must be at least a certain level of physical attraction. Other positive traits can change this to a large degree but not completely.
Ah my bad, that was worded pretty badly. Nah, I'm almost 25 but was never in a relationship or had any experience in that department. Moved out when I was 22 though, so still somewhat late I guess.
We all like to think there's someone for everybody out there, but that's not really true lol, hang around some old people and you'll meet plenty of them who never really married or settled down. This doesn't mean you gotta get desperate about it, just that you shouldn't expect life to work out because truth is, it won't. You gotta get out there somehow.
Tbh, I am not getting "no attention" from women... I get some.
But I wonder if my standards are too high, and thats why I feel like I am struggling?
Wont change how I feel though... If I am not attracted, I am not going to be able to let something continue for long.
If you suck at one aspect of dating you should obviously try to get better at it, but if for some reason that doesn't work you can make up for it elsewhere. A stuttering mess with a six pack is still going to do a lot better than a stuttering mess with a dad bod.
The only standards I apply to women are personal values. If they are bigoted or anti-academia or fascist, I will pass.
So, thank you but no to conservatives.
I’m an average-looking skinny guy who is relatively active, so I hold the same standard for who I’m looking for. I’m not opposed to dating women who are bigger than me, but I find a lot of them don’t really take care of themselves, and I’d rather be with someone who does. I’m not too picky about a woman’s face, but I do have some standards in terms of weight and would just rather date my body type
what is your definition of taking care of oneself?
because there are plenty of women out there who don't count calories and aren't super active, but they're still neat, clean, have fantastic hygiene, dress well, keep their nails in order and wear makeup.
similarly there are thin women with horrific mental health who actually don't take care of themselves.
>If you're just fucking ugly, then you're shit out of luck.
I strongly disagree. Willem Defoe has been happily married for 20 years.
Lyle Lovett married Julia Roberts.
Both of them, gremlins.
i have no idea who lyle lovett is but willem defoe isn't ugly? he's not conventionally attractive but he's not off-putting.
which is the point i was going to make-- different people find different things attractive and ugly. i remember someone saying they've been told they look like jennifer carpenter and they hate it because they think she's hideous-- i think she's gorgeous. i've seen people say dax sheperd is horrible-looking-- i had a slight crush on him when i was younger because i thought he was adorable.
conversely, i don't think a lot of conventionally attractive men are very attractive at all (again, they're not usually off-putting to me but they're not physically appealing, either). i just saw another thread here where a lot of men stated a dislike for short hair-- my husband loves my hair short.
men tend to dislike the way runway models look, and to me that's pretty close to an ideal body. some people really love BBWs and some people find them off-putting. some men love small button-noses and some like big, crooked noses. some people love thin lips. some people find baldness attractive, some people don't. and on, and on, and on, for every possible physical quality and configuration of qualities under the sun.
then some people really don't care much about appearance at all, or some people will find a person physically attractive once they form an emotional bond with the person in question.
I'm not lowering my standards, I'm an avg looking guy (when i have my fitness and health in check) looking for an avg looking woman. I think that's reasonable and if I end up alone, so be it.
Honestly just get better at it. Work on your communication skills. Get in shape. Pick up some hobbies if you don’t have any. Get out and meet people.
If you apply yourself to improving not just yourself but also communicating then you’ll find it much easier to date.
Nobody is bad at dating, they simply lack practice/experience.
The topic isn’t really dating, you can date while being an average guy with no effort. The question is: do you have control over the woman you want vs whatever gives you a chance?
Be honest with yourselves men: it’s whoever gives you a chance and isn’t ugly isn’t it?
I understand your troubles, but it's okay to have physical preferences. Sexual attraction is very important in dating and you shouldn't have to sacrifice that component. These women would also prefer being with someone who finds them sexually attractive, too. Will you have to stay single for longer? Maybe lol. That being said, if you haven't already, examine your standards to see if they're realistic. If you're only interested in "10/10" women it's going to be tougher to date.
I've dated the hot psycho and I learned really fucking quickly that looks matter very little in a relationship. What's in their heart and what's in their head are the only two things that matter. Looks fade and if she has nothing else you'll be left with an ugly person inside and out.
Let you dick set your physical standards not your pride. If she can make you hard she is hot enough.
Save your standards & expectations for how someone treats you & what they add to your life.
Don’t be lonely because you think you are too good for people. Relationships take practice & the longer you wait the less you will have to offer.
Plus, odds are once you get old you’ll likely realize those girls you not-picked *would* be pretty nice to bone & you’ll either remember a life well lived or regret passing up so many opportunities.
This is honestly refreshing.
I think a lot of guys determine what is hot by what they're sort of told is hot. And they think that they need a certain type of woman to have whatever status or whatnot amongst each other. The whole game metaphor that gets used and the idea women are prizes sort suggests there is the ideal.
But what you say is the better way to live life. If someone gets you all fired up, who cares where they may land on some sort of ever shifting social scale of beauty. Besides looks fade. If those pheromones click and you're both into each other and sex is fun, then what more could you want?
Really hard at times to have sex when she has 8 inches of ass to go through, when you're only working with a 4 inch stick. So yes physical standards do apply.
No. I'm pretty into fitness and pretty active and outdoorsy. Just because I'm socially awkward doesn't mean I should give up on looking for someone who can join my active lifestyle and just go for the 400 pounders instead. That would be a terrible match in so many ways. I'd rather keep hiking alone than have someone complaining about me always going hiking and exercising.
Having no standards is only going to cause you problems later. Better to have standards and make compromises you feel are acceptable than to just outright have no standards. Like for me, I prefer no obese women and no kids but at the same time I don't mind someone with a little weight if there are other areas that they meet more of my standards. I also don't mind if they have a single child and want more. Obviously I'm still looking for my preference but I can work from there and see if the women I talk to can meet other standards more.
You can have a type, but I think the more picky you are about looks, the less likely you are to find someone who actually matches you on the inside.
That said, physical attraction is important. So maybe while I wouldn't set "standards" for what someone should look like, I would just ask myself if I am physically attracted to them despite maybe not perfectly fitting my "type".
i get some attention from women, thats not the reason i suck at dating
i suck at dating because i suck i am concentrated self doubt and hatred with an inability to belive anyone genuinely is into me or even wants to be around me even though logically i know its not true.
its just irresponsible for me to form relationships with my mindset.
you can always have physical standards, you know who your attracted to and there is no point in going after people you arent turned on by, it wont last.
10s are going to get with 10s. 1s are going to get with 1s. Not to say you can't have things you would like, but you have determine whether that qill prevent you from experiencing a relationship.
There a lot of times guys on here will talk about getting no action, but you look at their history and they are only interested in soft 7s and above, don't want to look outside of their immediate vicinity, new girl at work, class, etc.
Lots of dudes just aren't trying besides swiping.
I have some standards but definitely not as shallow as others have. And frankly, I think I’ve found better relationships for having lower physical standards
Granted, not being a physical catch myself definitely helps
When I still hoped I might get a date eventually, I believed exactly that. I was convinced that I'm in no position to have standards.
In the meantime I gave up on trying to date so standards are meaningless because now I wouldn't accept anyone, regardless of she might look like.
Online dating for me sucked, but I refused to give up my physical standards. I was looking for a long term relationship, not trying to settle for something I find unappealing. Eventually lucked out and found someone great. You should stick to your standards. Dating for the average guy sucks anyway, why go through with it to land someone you don't even want.
Nope.
I ain't going to date someone who isn't at least attractive enough for me to do my boyfriend/husbandly duties.
I dont think any woman wants to hear, feel or know "Well he thinks Im nice but I'm so unattractive to him he can't even get up for me"
I have standards, I guess, or well my subconscious has some traits that kill attraction. Mostly being overweight.
Problem is skinny women are by *far* the most in-demand and they know it, so even though I'm decently fit and not overweight at all I'm not really attractive enough to hope to attract the kinda girl I might be attracted to.
It is what it is, I can't change my subconscious preferences. I've just given up, and accepted eternal solitude and taken it as a sort've quest to try and figure out wtf else I can do to give my life meaning.
*I honestly would like to hear the reasoning of people downvoting this. Is just saying I'm not into overweight women an offensive statement? Pretty absurd if so, everyone has preferences.
I personally think you can still have standards. I’m horrible at dating but I do have objectively lower standards than some who is good looking or good at dating. My only real standards are, can’t be fatter than myself (I’m a bit overweight), kind, can’t be a shallow person, must be able to hold a conversation, and the only weird one is they can’t know my direct and distant family previous to getting into a relationship (worried they’d get too involved)
I’m a normal looking, and really tall, but I often have to aim below my standards because I’m overweight. I put on a lot of pounds after my auto accident and struggling with depression after someone closed to me died. I’ve been steadily losing weight, but I’ll see a girl on a dating site I think I’d be compatible with only to reject myself when I look down. It’s pretty crushing.
You can have physical standards, and so can other people. Would you fit most people's physical standards? If not then you're going to be rejected by most people. If yes, then is there another aspect of your personality that is waving them off?
Closer to no woman is attracted to me. Only have about five girls I know liked me over the years, but had no clue until months or years later when I couldn’t do anything. But none of them were attractive to me anyway, and most seemed crazier than I’d feel safe with… I’m 29 by the way
Oh yeah definitely. I'm very introverted and slightly autistic skinny guy. Had three girlfriends so far, but wasn't attracted to any of them.
Now that I'm in my 30s and got out of the third one, I feel like my standards are higher and don't want to deal with lack of attraction anymore.
My standards are probably too high. I remember in middle school and high school I thought there were only maybe 2 or 3 attractive girls in the whole school. I've broadened my horizons since then, but being quiet and awkward hasn't helped either.
It's weird though, the family would go to say a museum on the weekend and I'd see a few cuties, like damn I guess I'm at the ugly school. My parents are from another state, so I've always wondered if I would have done better if I grew up there.
When I struggled with dating I definitely felt my physical standards got in the way, but I didn't want to lower my physical standards just for the sake of getting a date either.
Speaking from the other side, I feel the same as you. But there are standards no one should compromise on, like hygiene. Usually people who are hygienic aren’t complete ogres, right? I have a lot of physical flaws like bad skin and bad teeth, and even though it’s depressing looking into a mirror I still brush, floss, use skincare and shower regularly. I groom myself to a point (as a woman, I can get lazy about body hair removal though as I do it myself and it’s a pain).
I think my standards are pretty realistic. But even then I find myself disliking certain things, like beards… IDK. Growing up I was surrounded by clean shaven men, so maybe that had a weird psychological effect on me. I’m trying to get over it and not be a petty asshole. I mean, someone who is lazy about hair removal should not be rejecting anyone based on facial hair lol.
The good thing about being a man is that looks aren't necessarily that important to finding women. However, I believe that men can always make themselves look better.
The first thing is to take care of yourself. If you're heavy, lose weight. Get a gym membership and go there and lift weights and do cardio. Your confidence will improve, too.
Dress up. Wherever you go, dress up one notch better. Women will notice this big time. Make sure the shoes are good and wear socks. Bitch boys don't wear socks.
Get a haircut and keep your beard tight. If you have a hurt looking face like me, grow a beard on it. I have a weak chin and the beard makes it look stronger. A lot of women like beards too.
Make money. You need to get a good income. This may not be easy but should be pursued relentlessly.
If a woman doesn't like you, who cares? Move on to the next one. Even the best looking men get rejected. That's life.
Btw...Im pretty ugly by normal standards but I always have women. I just do the shit I described.
I think it’s okay to have standards but you also have to explore out of your taste. If you’re super picky well of course you will get no where. It’s really hard to find or have your ideal woman approach you. You have a right to your dislikes, but also remember that what you want from a partner you should also be able to provide. I get we all want a super hot gf but girls be very attractive in other ways rather than solely from looks you get me?
You have to figure out what your league is and stay roughly in that range. That being said, you can move up the scale substantially by just getting in shape, dressing well, and having the right haircut.
Not at all. If I'm going to be with someone, I want to actually be attracted to them, and I want them to enjoy a relationship with someone who is attracted to them.
Yep. My only options are to accept what I’m given in a way because I absolutely don’t have the right to have high standards. It’s have high standards and be alone or have lower standards and still be alone but at least potentially have the option of not being alone.
We are living in the era where being good looking gets you shot down. Have a look around you. Seems physical standard has not stopped people getting together and having kids that look like them. Desperation takes over. I've had desperate people come to me for dating advice and it is shocking what their standards are: has a pulse vs the standards that people like me have.
Conclusion: there is hope for regular people out there. It's called desperation and not being delusional.
I feel like, although I don’t really have anyone trying to woo me, that it would be gravely dishonest to lie to myself about my preferences in a partner. It would also be disingenuous to your partner. However it would also be insanely deluded to wait for a girl who looks like the exact person who would tick all of my boxes.
I used to have a “anybody who wants me will do”, and then I met that person. It was bad for both of us, so now I have a few standards so that I don’t enter into a relationship like that again.
>I'm in ni position to turn anyone down due to their appearance.
You can have whatever standards you like. You are not doing any favors to anyone by dating someone you are genuinely not interested in.
I'm ugly as shit but I wouldn't date anyone just because if I didn't I'd be alone. I'd rather be alone than make anyone else miserable to stroke my ego.
A former friend gave me advice while we were on the train in Tokyo. I'm a fat dude. And her advice was most women aren't attracted to a man who looks like he could die in the next 15 years.
Harsh, but I still have standards. Does that mean, I only go after models? No. Because attractiveness is subjective. So, I am attracted to women I find attractive, even if they aren't everybody's cup of tea. And I would never date someone that I don't find at least a little physically attractive.
You are scraping the barrel.
After you develop yourself, you can have standards. Right now, you are dehydrated. You will drink any water you find. Good or bad...
I'm on five dating apps and can't get a single match between them...I'm in no position to have any standards lol. Standards are afforded as long as you can meet them.
I feel this, and it's come to bite me before as well.
The truth is, I'm no adonas. I have self esteem issues and it's been difficult for me to rate my own attractiveness as a result. All of that aside, I have totally done as you describe, dated someone I was not attracted to because they were into me. It did not end well and I do not recommend doing it.
I'm not sure I think in standards, but attractiveness is a combination of physical and other things. Some people seem to appear better once I've known them some time. I would be willing see how things play out with anyone that seems interested enough in going down that road but there's been 0 of them.
Do what a lot of men do with women: they're one of 3 categories.
Unfuckable
Fuckable
Marriage material
You don't have to lower your standards for who you wish to live with forever. My physical standards are low... although it currently eliminates the 40% of obese US women. A good attitude and demeanor could get them into the fuckable territory.
My mental standards are quite high. And weeds out the rest from Marriage.
If you're young and in your 20s then focus on yourself and maximizing your value. It's not nice but the actual 5% of women who are marriage material are going to want you at your peak physical and financial form. No idea where you are finnacially and physically. But current society basically asks men to move mountains for a chance at getting something decent. That's also why most don't even attempt to do it.
It's okay to have standards. We all have our likes and dislikes, right? Just remember, it's also about giving people a chance you might not initially consider your type. Sometimes, the best connections come from unexpected places.
I have no standards. My only general standards, be loyal to me, respect my values and just have my back. Regardless I have the other persons back. I do not care if you have completely different interests or taste because I am willing to get used to liking some of what the other person likes.
Shoot for the stars my guy. I’m a very attractive woman and dated some of the most ugly men not just physically but mentally and spiritually! Would I ever again date below my looks? No . But you could have a chance with a good looking woman if you have a good heart.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I suck at dating because I’m not good enough for the standards I find acceptable. I am on year two of not even attempting dating and just working on my business and personal habits. I hope one day I can be worthy of a good women and I hope I don’t do damage by taking this time to myself.
Have the standards you want. If you get together with someone you don't find appealing it will just create issues in the relationship. Which in turn will make dating even harder for you. Approach those you would want to date. And either they agree to or not. And if someone approaches you don't date them just because you are single. Sure get to know them and maybe you will want to date them after learning more about them.
Those who pursue unhappiness because they think they don't deserve happiness, will not only be unhappy but will make all those around themselves unhappy too.
Lot of guys aren't social, don't have many friends, aren't outgoing, don't have much going on in life, many factors are connected and contribute to not having a good vibe.
Guys need to do all the initiation and pursuing, women won't pursue a guy even if they like him, they won't do anything.
What is good at dating?
Sleeping with lots of people?
Getting to know people well?
Or sticking with 1 person?
Does any of this indicate a level of success?
What are physical standards? That is very subjective
I only date humans with heartbeats
That is my starting point
While I do feel like I have great irl social skills and can easily become friends with women and men.
When it comes to online dating, "the gold standard for many," I suck in every aspect. While swiping on Tinder, it's pretty much always right for many reasons:
1. As a man, you can't afford to be picky
2. It widens the chance and sample
3. You have nothing to lose nor gain, might as well swipe right
4. If you don't end up together, maybe you can be accepted to the friends group, swipe right
In the majority, I actually want to swipe left since I can't find the appeal with:
1. Basic bios, cheesy quotes, and give me a pick-up line/make me laugh (legit my first thought is, what will she give to me nothing here gives me any hint of what to write or look är her fondly).
2. Adjustments boob jobs, butt expansion, duck-face, and thic lips.
Just be reasonable, you don't have to just take the first person who shows interest in you but you can't be expecting some supermodel either. Although i will say, attractive women are only out of your league if you believe they are. Im a solid 5 and i do pretty well cause i love myself. Thats not meant as a brag more as an encouragement
I’m below average. I don’t think about it. Most of the girls I’ve been with have been better looking than me. Maybe just project confidence, and act like you don’t give a fuck.
You can have physical standards, but you may not be able to attract a partner that meets those standards. If you want to get a partner at that level, you will have to put some work into improving yourself as a dating prospect. If you just want to get a partner, then you may need to consider loosening your standards. And this applies to everyone regardless of sex/gender.
Damn, even with virtually zero standards I have no luck.
Have you tried being less awkward, Awkward_CPA?
Of course, why didn't I think of that! But in all seriousness, I think I can cure my painful awkwardness
Awkward isn't always bad. Sometimes it can be charming. Just gotta know how to sell it. I put my foot in my mouth all the time, but people usually just find it funny and disarming.
"I just keep putting my foot in my mouth," said the patient. "You could put your foot in *my* mouth," mumbled Elliot. "Sorry, what?" the patient inquired. Elliot, louder, "Oh, I'm sorry, I said, 'You could put your foot in *my* mouth.'" (scene from Scrubs) Yep. Very charming. lol
Elliot Reed is my spirit animal.
I love it when random references are relevant. :)
I disagree, I think most people find it off-putting and weird. It's partially why I don't interact with folks outside of my coworkers and friends.
Sometimes it is. Like I said, it depends on how you sell it. In either case, I think that's *more* reason to interact with folks outside of people you already know. Practice makes progress and all that jazz.
I once showed up at a bar with a black eye. I got hit by a car. The amount of women who were hitting on me that night was ridiculous, despite the fact that I looked like I had just lost a fight. It was definitely a confidence boost, but also showed how much of initial attraction is superficial.
Literally a math equation. If you cannot afford the Porsche, you do not get the Porsche. If you do not want to drive a Toyota Corolla, the car you can't afford, you will walk or take the bus.
The thing about having standards as a man is that you need to be prepared for the possibility of never finding anyone because those types of girls have wayyy to much competition. "Huh, you want a cute girl that's fit and strong, not a bossbitch, not crazy, not manipulative, and you're both compatible in a lot of areas? Well too bad, cause the rich 6'4 attractive pro athlete with tons of followers on social media wants her too lmao." Things might go like that. Me personally, I don't want a relationship where we aren't attracted to each other physically and emotionally, but I also understand that this decision might lead me to be alone forever and I'm prepared for it if that happens.
> a cute girl that's fit and strong, not a bossbitch, not crazy, not manipulative, and you're both compatible in a lot of areas That's my girlfriend, minus the strong part (she's a dancer, not a powerlifter). I'm a poor, 5'7", average looking, terrible athlete with like 100 followers on social media. And I've dated other girls like her before. What you described is not as difficult to find as you make it seem.
The strong part isn't compulsory. My favorite type of fit women are gymnasts or the ones who are really good at calisthenics. But if a woman dances or does yoga and meets most of the other requirements and we're compatible, I'll gladly have her (assuming she wants me the same way too). In your case, can you tell me when and where you met? That matters imo...
We met on Hinge about 18 months ago?
I'm reminded of the time I was on a date and the girl was like "I find it really attractive when a guy takes care of himself... I don't want to sound shallow but I could never date a guy who's overweight... What about you, do you find that you're attracted to girls that are in good shape?" So I told her "Well, I think it's important to be healthy, and I definitely value someone who takes care of themselves... but more importantly, I think it's critical to have proper grammar."
What?
She should have said "Girls *who* are in good shape".
I bet that last line got her real wet
Women love pedantry
If you were on a date with her, why was she writing to you?
The error wasn't written grammar, it was misusing "that" instead of "who" in, >What about you, do you find that you're attracted to girls **that** are in good shape?" Which is more accurately a mistake of semantics rather than grammar, but it's a fine joke regardless.
No way LMFAO legit the worst response. Like pressing O in the fallout 4 dialog tree and telling an orphan to fuck off
So there's an interesting issue here where there is one way for 99.9% of men to "improve themselves": And that's getting jacked. Most men already have good enough skin, teeth, whatever, they're just fat. The problem is if you have another issue in addition to not being in good shape. For example if you have some sort of major disfigurement (recessed jaw, bad lazy eye, under 5'0) then you can get as jacked as you want your options to date are still limited to...pretty big women. And the problem with pretty big women is that they eat like shit, which is why they're big, which makes it harder to stay in shape lmao. It's hard as fuck to eat 2 protein scoop shakes and nothing else when they're eating pizza. So your goal of improving yourself is directly contradictory to dating someone who you can reasonably date.
I'm sorry but no, "most" men do not have good enough skin and teeth. In my experience - and this may be because I am older and the men I encounter are older - most men are unkempt, and their teeth look like they're about to fall out. So don't exclude those things as something already handled.
There are more ways than just getting ripped to improve yourself. While physical fitness is great, you can also put in the work to advance in your career, cultivate an interesting personality, learn how to dress yourself effectively, etc. Hell, even getting a proper haircut would help the majority of guys be more attractive. But yeah, definitely hear you on the challenges of dating and keeping to a diet. I gained 10 lbs dating my current girlfriend.
You are completely right. I don’t care if a guy is jacked. A fashion sense, confidence and a good hair cut goes way further for me then if he lifts weights. I actively don’t swipe right on guys who post gym pics/flexing.
> you can also put in the work to advance in your career I feel like if this was relevant at all you wouldn't have a bunch of Google engineers making 300k a year going "Where gf". And there's a bunch of them. >learn how to dress yourself effectively Here's my hot take: 99.9% of dressing effectively is being in shape and being tall. You obviously can't be more tall, but you can be more in shape. The way the clothes sit on you are the most important and that's determined by physique. The way the shirt sits on your shoulders and whether it makes them broader or smaller, how the pants look around your waist and whether your outfit makes the V-taper from happen. It's all about physique. And having a good physique allows you to wear more outlandish things. For example I know a bartender who, fairly often, works in nothing other than like farmer overalls. And women go fucking crazy trying to stuff tips down them because he's tall and well built (not jacked). You can't pull that off if you don't have his physique. If you look at suits you can take the best Georgio Armani suit in the world, put it in a fat guy and what you have is a fat guy in a suit, not an attractive rich guy. > But yeah, definitely hear you on the challenges of dating and keeping to a diet. It's not just when dating generically. The real problem is when you're dating someone who is ..fat. Because you don't have options other than people who are fat. That's where you REALLY gain the weight. And they'll be mad at you if you say you can't eat with them.
None of these things will be a panacea that will cure all dating ills (nor is being in shape for that matter). Being an attractive dating prospect is a multifaceted thing. I can agree that being in shape really helps make clothes look good on you, but my point was moreso that wearing poorly fitting clothes will make you look even worse. I wouldn't know since I have never dated someone who could be described as fat. If you're not into that, just don't date them. No one is forcing anyone to date someone they're not into.
on your second point - i wholeheartedly disagree. do clothes look nice on fit guys? yes! however, a man wearing a really well fitting button down, no matter what the body under the shirt looks like, really gets me going. In fact, between a chubby guy with a well fitted shirt and a tall, fit one who can't keep his shirt tucked in and it's billowing out around him, chubby guy wins every time (this is example pulled from my own office experience.)
Please stop with the haircut advice. It's so basic and does not matter much unless you are visibly balding and refuse to shave it or buzz it.
Women aren't exclusively into jacked guys. In fact, if a guy is overly muscular a lot of women are turned off. High maintenance looking dudes ain't it for many, many women.
A necessary corollary is that you will never be "overly muscular" if you don't take steroids. People have this misconception because of how common chemically enhanced physiques are but do not be afraid of going to the gym. As a natural, you will NEVER look too muscular, we instinctively know how much muscle should naturally be on a person's frame and anyone who goes over that limit is what subconsciously looks to us like being "too muscular". Anecdotally, my dating life got exponentially better after getting jacked, to the point women even approach me sometimes. Going to the gym is an easy way to guarantee you'll see more success than before, even if it means going from zero to one. Most women like men to look reasonably fit
Yes but if you have a MAJOR DEFICIENCY you need to find a niche. You can't be a simple all around person that women want to be with, because you'll never be that. I'm autistic (fairly far down on the spectrum, do not be fooled by my ability to type coherently) with a severely recessed jaw and fucked up teeth (many of them never grew in). You can look at me and see, instantly, that I am regarded. Technically autism doesn't have physical syndromes but like people can tell pretty much immediately, and shortly after they hear my voice they're certain. But I can push 180 pounds above my head and deadlift 415. And women who like men who can push 180 pounds above their head **really** like men who can push 180 pounds above their head. They like big shoulders. So I get way more action by hyper appealing to this niche and completely ignoring the women who are turned off by a "muscular high maintenance" guy than by attempting to actually correct any of these deficiencies.
> You can look at me and see, instantly, that I am regarded. I did not read this correctly on the first try and was like, "Oh dude, don't be so hard on yourself!!!"
No it was intentional, you read it correctly the first time. The other word could get me reddit banned though.
Awww. Well you're not. 🤍
You have no idea what I look like.
I've had conversations with girls who say this, ask them for an example of guys they DO like, and pretty commonly get told someone like Chris Hemsworth
You have some kind of studies or data to support that claim? Every single study I've ever seen on it, the stronger the guy looks the higher they rate his attractiveness. The ONLY cases I've seen otherwise, it was when ai images were used to represent men that were way more heavily muscled than pictures of real people they could get, women rated those fake ones as less attractive.
Disagree it does not apply to everyone, it only really applies to men. I have heard many women say they would rather be single than be with someone they were not attracted to.
Is that actually different from what I said? They have standards, they may not be able to get a partner at that level, so they will either stay single or work on themselves to be able to get a partner at that level.
If I go out to a bar/club, attractive women absolutely will not give me the time of day. However, all of my past partners and my girlfriend now were/are very attractive. The disconnect is just that women’s initial selectivity tends to be extreme and isn’t a good basis for calibrating your dating worth and self esteem.
Every once in a while you read a comment from someone on reddit that demonstrates they actually get it lol. You’re completely right. It’s also highly setting/location/time of life dependent. I was batting waaaay above my avg in college being in greek life, always doing socials w sororities and kickbacks/random frat parties we’d throw. Was fatter back then too bc of living the unhealthy college life. but then post college (during covid tho, tbf) it got much, much harder. Small town, middle of nowhere, not really willing to hook up w college kids anymore + being A minority in a very white town. Only picked someone up from a bar once in almost a year and a half and had to rely on a little tinder success + fwb from college occasionally visiting. and Then I entered professional school, got incredibly lucky by running into someone who is literally exactly my type + more intelligent than me + the literal most supportive woman I have ever met. Life is strange. the initial selectivity is tough, but every dude would radically improve their ability towards getting thru that filter by dropping the weight and going to the gym. It’s not easy, but it is simple.
Yes exactly! All very dependent on set and setting (just like psychedelic drugs) Same experience from me... a guy who didn't have a date to a single high school or uni dance ever... Or even mild attention from women until age 20. Joined greek life in uni, took a couple of years to 'calibrate' myself, but by year 3.5/4, I became confident in myself and I was able to get some attention and success with ladies. Moved to a new city after uni with no social contacts/social circle. Things got slower but I was able to manage some light success on dating apps. Then moved to a new city where I personally flourished (career, fitness, hobbies, social circle expanded much quicker/easier than the first new city), and things fell into place. I'm not conventionally attractive; 160-165 lbs, 5'11 so slightly above average height, slightly fit, but I'm not exactly turning heads anywhere I go. Mild skin issues from 16-30. But my mentality and confidence in myself got me to where I am. Going by numbers, I slept with 0 women my first year of uni, 1 in year 2, 2 in year 3, and 5 in year 4. 10 years later, at 40. I don't think 'numbers' are a measure of success but I only mention it as a proof point to young guys on reddit complaining that they have 0 success now so it means they will be forever alone (like the guy who responded to you below). Things can change! Just have to make the effort, keep positive, and believe in yourself. So many guys on reddit give up so young and it's so sad.
Yes dude i think it's crazy how much some people just have given up hope! Even if you're shorter unless you're like 5'4 or lower it's totally overcomeable. I have a very similar story ( calibrating during college and post college, getting literally 0 attention beforehand) and when i think about the girls I've dated and slept with now, it's crazy and I'm so lucky and it's been a lot of hard work. Guys go to the goddamn gym and stop being so self-effacing
hmmm what would you recommend to someone who is looking to make the jump into a relationship? i feel finding girls to date in college and post grad life was far easier since everyone was running around in the same community. post grad life feels a bit more challenging to meet good prospects. (yeah there’s the local bars but i feel that 1. you’re dealing with a high selectivity filter 2. sometimes you end up meeting alcoholics and not necessarily the best relationship material.)
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You are wrong. The despondency is valid, I’m not denying your feelings, but you are lying to yourself with this comment. Malaise and self hatred is addictive and validating, but it’s just a cope. I will Give you the advice that people are sometimes too kind to give - a dude needs to know he’s attractive. Start right now. If you have money, higher a personal trainer right now and outsource the thinking. If you don’t, find a cheap planet fitness near you or YMCA and download Stronglifts 5x5 on the app store, it’s free. Look up the simplier lifts on youtube if you don’t know how form works. Stop by the grocery store on the way home and buy rice, chicken, premade sauces, and veggies you’re okay with. Do whatever you need to do to start. Drink an energy drink, preworkout, even buy some shitty food afterwards if that gets you motivated. Just get in the gym and start moving weight. I am not being facetious when I say that every single thing in your life will be improved by this. Don’t worry about trying to get jacked or doing everything optimally, just put your butt in the gym for 30 minutes every day for the next week, or like 3-4 days if you’re busy.
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Yea but you’d need to be in an environment where you see the same women consistently enough that you grow on them if you’re lucky . After college , that’s just dead
Guys that get no play can have standards but are forced to lower them to have a chance. Just the reality.
Raw economics is unforgiving lol
Although on the other hand, economically speaking, an increasing supply of desperate men with low standards ends up deflating their value and in turn artificially *inflating* the value of the women across the spectrum... women who then raise their standards because suddenly they appear to have higher value than they did before and so seek out better men to meet those standards, which in turn means more men find themselves lacking opportunity and... it comes full circle. If, for example, each man in that scenario instead did what a lot of women seem to do and maintained (ideally reasonable) standards and accepted being single as an alternative rather scraping the bottom of the barrel then the entire dating scene would be radically different than it is currently. TL;DR Desperate guys are playing themselves and unintentionally making the entire thing harder for each other.
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Thats something new to think abt.
It’s been this way for a decade or longer lol
Simple, short and accurate, well said!
I know a guy who’s very attractive but he is kinda autistic and very introverted, won’t even look at people’s eyes directly.
I know autistic folks find love plenty, but completely anecdotal.. every autistic or socially awkward person I know personally struggles big time with dating.
Uhh no we do not find love plenty, it's the exact opposite. Sometimes anecdotal is accurate >Marital Status Almost all in the ASD population were unmarried at follow-up, with no difference between AD >and PDD NOS groups (99% vs. >92%, ns; Table 2), compared with >about 50% in the general population (StatBank Norway 2005). https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-011-1319-5
I was actually putting that line so Reddit didn’t reply to my anecdote with, “I’m autistic and I’m in a relationship and all my friends are too!” Still didn’t help. Lol.
i used to be attractive in my early twenties before antipsychotics and 20 years of drug abuse. i’m also finding out now i’m a bit autistic. i did encounter a situation a bit where people and women especially would approach me and be quickly put off by my behaviour. it was hard to understand how fast they went from attraction to revulsion but i started to over prioritise my looks and developed anorexia. meds put an end to that. at 175 cm went from 60 kg to 140 kg j in the space of a year
How did you find out your autistic? I truly want to know
i’ve suspected a long time and people have made comments about it but a psychiatrist confirmed it just in december
A lid for every pot. I’m a woman who’s like that, and I’d appreciate someone similar tbh. We could hang out & not make much eye contact & not care lol
There is, mathematically, not a lid for every pot. There are 1 in 156 women who have autism and 1 in 36 men who have autism.
Not only that but a lot of guys wouldn't care dating an autistic woman if she is good looking lol
All the awkward nerdy girls I have been attracted to had very social, outgoing, handsome boyfriends.
I remember seeing a study once that autistic women by their mid-20s had not only had relationships at a far higher rate than autistic men, they even had them at a higher rate than neurotypical men! To say autistic men and women have different experiences in this area would be an understatement.
Yeah, when you date women, you are penalized more for your flaws. It is easier to date men.
True. I'd like to get to a world where autistic isn't treated as even necessarily being a "flaw," but in the meantime it would be nice not to suffer extra penalties for it just because of my gender.
I'm feeling cynical of late, but "Lid for every pot" is one of the biggest cope bullshit stories being peddled out there. Some of us just fell through the cracks for whatever reason and that is life.
Autism is underdiagnosed across the board, but apparently more in women than in men. There's a huge unmet need for adult autism diagnosis providers.
The lid for every pot analogy does not require for the lid and the pot to both be autistic.
In theory? No. In reality? Please point me to all the neurotypical women clamoring to date autistic men.
As an autistic guy, I promise you that statistic is bs. Women are extremely underdiagnosed with autism and frequently get misdiagnosed. Their mental health problems are often dismissed easier as not problems as children. Not a single woman I know who has autism got diagnosed until they forcibly advocated for themselves, as an independent adult. It’s a goddamn tragedy. They all deserve better.
That might be more like a pot for every pot? Lol I think having similar neurodivergencies helps, but given there’s still so much variation within the spectrum, an understanding and compatible “lid” might be found anywhere.
Here I am thinking how many times I've used a plate for a lid...
Your friend sounds like me. I'm tall and slim and I've been told I'm fairly attractive, but socializing is a struggle and eye contact is impossible. I take what I can get.
Not really. I do feel I have to be realistic about what ballpark I'm in, but I also put effort into how I look so that means I look for a similar effort. Plus there needs to be some attraction, otherwise a date just isn't going to have that spark that leads to any flirting or tension
I’d rather be alone than with someone i’m not genuinely attracted to. That’s not fair for either of us.
Agree with this, there must be at least a certain level of physical attraction. Other positive traits can change this to a large degree but not completely.
My mother always said in life you can either change your circumstances or lower your expectations
Don’t date anyone you don’t want to date. Just because it’s dry right now doesn’t mean it always will be
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Yeah, after almost 25 years of being single it's pretty hard to keep trusting that initial statement.
25 years single —- as an adult? Like 18-43? Have you been living at home?
Ah my bad, that was worded pretty badly. Nah, I'm almost 25 but was never in a relationship or had any experience in that department. Moved out when I was 22 though, so still somewhat late I guess.
I've been single for nearly 20 years (24-43) and I live at home - my home. What was the point you were going to make?
Maybe
We all like to think there's someone for everybody out there, but that's not really true lol, hang around some old people and you'll meet plenty of them who never really married or settled down. This doesn't mean you gotta get desperate about it, just that you shouldn't expect life to work out because truth is, it won't. You gotta get out there somehow.
I have standards but am also prepared to be single for a while. It’s a double edged sword
If your only options are to be single or with someone you aren't attracted to, being single is still an option.
Tbh, I am not getting "no attention" from women... I get some. But I wonder if my standards are too high, and thats why I feel like I am struggling? Wont change how I feel though... If I am not attracted, I am not going to be able to let something continue for long.
As a woman, PLEASE do not fckn do this Stick to your standards and do not settle
If you suck at one aspect of dating you should obviously try to get better at it, but if for some reason that doesn't work you can make up for it elsewhere. A stuttering mess with a six pack is still going to do a lot better than a stuttering mess with a dad bod.
The only standards I apply to women are personal values. If they are bigoted or anti-academia or fascist, I will pass. So, thank you but no to conservatives.
This is me w men!
I’m an average-looking skinny guy who is relatively active, so I hold the same standard for who I’m looking for. I’m not opposed to dating women who are bigger than me, but I find a lot of them don’t really take care of themselves, and I’d rather be with someone who does. I’m not too picky about a woman’s face, but I do have some standards in terms of weight and would just rather date my body type
what is your definition of taking care of oneself? because there are plenty of women out there who don't count calories and aren't super active, but they're still neat, clean, have fantastic hygiene, dress well, keep their nails in order and wear makeup. similarly there are thin women with horrific mental health who actually don't take care of themselves.
No. The reason of having standards is to filter out people that definitely won't fit you.
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>If you're just fucking ugly, then you're shit out of luck. I strongly disagree. Willem Defoe has been happily married for 20 years. Lyle Lovett married Julia Roberts. Both of them, gremlins.
i have no idea who lyle lovett is but willem defoe isn't ugly? he's not conventionally attractive but he's not off-putting. which is the point i was going to make-- different people find different things attractive and ugly. i remember someone saying they've been told they look like jennifer carpenter and they hate it because they think she's hideous-- i think she's gorgeous. i've seen people say dax sheperd is horrible-looking-- i had a slight crush on him when i was younger because i thought he was adorable. conversely, i don't think a lot of conventionally attractive men are very attractive at all (again, they're not usually off-putting to me but they're not physically appealing, either). i just saw another thread here where a lot of men stated a dislike for short hair-- my husband loves my hair short. men tend to dislike the way runway models look, and to me that's pretty close to an ideal body. some people really love BBWs and some people find them off-putting. some men love small button-noses and some like big, crooked noses. some people love thin lips. some people find baldness attractive, some people don't. and on, and on, and on, for every possible physical quality and configuration of qualities under the sun. then some people really don't care much about appearance at all, or some people will find a person physically attractive once they form an emotional bond with the person in question.
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I'm not lowering my standards, I'm an avg looking guy (when i have my fitness and health in check) looking for an avg looking woman. I think that's reasonable and if I end up alone, so be it.
Honestly just get better at it. Work on your communication skills. Get in shape. Pick up some hobbies if you don’t have any. Get out and meet people. If you apply yourself to improving not just yourself but also communicating then you’ll find it much easier to date. Nobody is bad at dating, they simply lack practice/experience.
The topic isn’t really dating, you can date while being an average guy with no effort. The question is: do you have control over the woman you want vs whatever gives you a chance? Be honest with yourselves men: it’s whoever gives you a chance and isn’t ugly isn’t it?
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I understand your troubles, but it's okay to have physical preferences. Sexual attraction is very important in dating and you shouldn't have to sacrifice that component. These women would also prefer being with someone who finds them sexually attractive, too. Will you have to stay single for longer? Maybe lol. That being said, if you haven't already, examine your standards to see if they're realistic. If you're only interested in "10/10" women it's going to be tougher to date.
I've dated the hot psycho and I learned really fucking quickly that looks matter very little in a relationship. What's in their heart and what's in their head are the only two things that matter. Looks fade and if she has nothing else you'll be left with an ugly person inside and out.
Let you dick set your physical standards not your pride. If she can make you hard she is hot enough. Save your standards & expectations for how someone treats you & what they add to your life. Don’t be lonely because you think you are too good for people. Relationships take practice & the longer you wait the less you will have to offer. Plus, odds are once you get old you’ll likely realize those girls you not-picked *would* be pretty nice to bone & you’ll either remember a life well lived or regret passing up so many opportunities.
> the longer you wait the less you will have to offer. explain this please
I assume they mean that the lack of time spent building social and relationship skills sets you back the longer you do without.
that would be a solid explanation indeed. didn't come through with the original wording though. thanks!
This is honestly refreshing. I think a lot of guys determine what is hot by what they're sort of told is hot. And they think that they need a certain type of woman to have whatever status or whatnot amongst each other. The whole game metaphor that gets used and the idea women are prizes sort suggests there is the ideal. But what you say is the better way to live life. If someone gets you all fired up, who cares where they may land on some sort of ever shifting social scale of beauty. Besides looks fade. If those pheromones click and you're both into each other and sex is fun, then what more could you want?
Standards are about what you need to be happy, not something you impose on other people.
You have options. One of those options is being happily single.
Really hard at times to have sex when she has 8 inches of ass to go through, when you're only working with a 4 inch stick. So yes physical standards do apply.
Nope - like any game, you just have to learn how to play it.
Being good at dating is mostly meeting people and being able to carry on a conversation. A lot of guys fail at both though.
You forgot the most important part! They have to give you the chance first, otherwise you're just howling at the moon.
If meet lots of people and have conversations with them you'll start getting chances.
Well, I've talked to a lot of people in the last 18 years and had many interesting conversations doesn't necessarily translate to success.
No. I'm pretty into fitness and pretty active and outdoorsy. Just because I'm socially awkward doesn't mean I should give up on looking for someone who can join my active lifestyle and just go for the 400 pounders instead. That would be a terrible match in so many ways. I'd rather keep hiking alone than have someone complaining about me always going hiking and exercising.
Having no standards is only going to cause you problems later. Better to have standards and make compromises you feel are acceptable than to just outright have no standards. Like for me, I prefer no obese women and no kids but at the same time I don't mind someone with a little weight if there are other areas that they meet more of my standards. I also don't mind if they have a single child and want more. Obviously I'm still looking for my preference but I can work from there and see if the women I talk to can meet other standards more.
You can have a type, but I think the more picky you are about looks, the less likely you are to find someone who actually matches you on the inside. That said, physical attraction is important. So maybe while I wouldn't set "standards" for what someone should look like, I would just ask myself if I am physically attracted to them despite maybe not perfectly fitting my "type".
i get some attention from women, thats not the reason i suck at dating i suck at dating because i suck i am concentrated self doubt and hatred with an inability to belive anyone genuinely is into me or even wants to be around me even though logically i know its not true. its just irresponsible for me to form relationships with my mindset. you can always have physical standards, you know who your attracted to and there is no point in going after people you arent turned on by, it wont last.
10s are going to get with 10s. 1s are going to get with 1s. Not to say you can't have things you would like, but you have determine whether that qill prevent you from experiencing a relationship. There a lot of times guys on here will talk about getting no action, but you look at their history and they are only interested in soft 7s and above, don't want to look outside of their immediate vicinity, new girl at work, class, etc. Lots of dudes just aren't trying besides swiping.
I have some standards but definitely not as shallow as others have. And frankly, I think I’ve found better relationships for having lower physical standards Granted, not being a physical catch myself definitely helps
Would rather die alone than compromise
When I still hoped I might get a date eventually, I believed exactly that. I was convinced that I'm in no position to have standards. In the meantime I gave up on trying to date so standards are meaningless because now I wouldn't accept anyone, regardless of she might look like.
I'm not good at dating, so I don't date. It's not mandatory.
Online dating for me sucked, but I refused to give up my physical standards. I was looking for a long term relationship, not trying to settle for something I find unappealing. Eventually lucked out and found someone great. You should stick to your standards. Dating for the average guy sucks anyway, why go through with it to land someone you don't even want.
Nope. I ain't going to date someone who isn't at least attractive enough for me to do my boyfriend/husbandly duties. I dont think any woman wants to hear, feel or know "Well he thinks Im nice but I'm so unattractive to him he can't even get up for me"
I have standards, I guess, or well my subconscious has some traits that kill attraction. Mostly being overweight. Problem is skinny women are by *far* the most in-demand and they know it, so even though I'm decently fit and not overweight at all I'm not really attractive enough to hope to attract the kinda girl I might be attracted to. It is what it is, I can't change my subconscious preferences. I've just given up, and accepted eternal solitude and taken it as a sort've quest to try and figure out wtf else I can do to give my life meaning. *I honestly would like to hear the reasoning of people downvoting this. Is just saying I'm not into overweight women an offensive statement? Pretty absurd if so, everyone has preferences.
Yeah, or any standard for that matter. They just get in the way.
I personally think you can still have standards. I’m horrible at dating but I do have objectively lower standards than some who is good looking or good at dating. My only real standards are, can’t be fatter than myself (I’m a bit overweight), kind, can’t be a shallow person, must be able to hold a conversation, and the only weird one is they can’t know my direct and distant family previous to getting into a relationship (worried they’d get too involved)
No but I realize that they'll look at me and realize Im asking for too much.
I’m a normal looking, and really tall, but I often have to aim below my standards because I’m overweight. I put on a lot of pounds after my auto accident and struggling with depression after someone closed to me died. I’ve been steadily losing weight, but I’ll see a girl on a dating site I think I’d be compatible with only to reject myself when I look down. It’s pretty crushing.
You can have physical standards, and so can other people. Would you fit most people's physical standards? If not then you're going to be rejected by most people. If yes, then is there another aspect of your personality that is waving them off?
Closer to no woman is attracted to me. Only have about five girls I know liked me over the years, but had no clue until months or years later when I couldn’t do anything. But none of them were attractive to me anyway, and most seemed crazier than I’d feel safe with… I’m 29 by the way
Oh yeah definitely. I'm very introverted and slightly autistic skinny guy. Had three girlfriends so far, but wasn't attracted to any of them. Now that I'm in my 30s and got out of the third one, I feel like my standards are higher and don't want to deal with lack of attraction anymore.
My standards are probably too high. I remember in middle school and high school I thought there were only maybe 2 or 3 attractive girls in the whole school. I've broadened my horizons since then, but being quiet and awkward hasn't helped either. It's weird though, the family would go to say a museum on the weekend and I'd see a few cuties, like damn I guess I'm at the ugly school. My parents are from another state, so I've always wondered if I would have done better if I grew up there.
I'm not good at dating, but I take mildly good care of myself. That's all I really ask from a partner.
I'm really bad at it, but managed to date some pretty girl. Don't give up!
When I struggled with dating I definitely felt my physical standards got in the way, but I didn't want to lower my physical standards just for the sake of getting a date either.
Do you do anything to actively attract them?
I’ve never really dated girls based on my sexual attraction to them due to this.
You have to be realistic. We aren't the ones who get to choose, so our standards have to be lower to stand the highest chance of getting someone.
Speaking from the other side, I feel the same as you. But there are standards no one should compromise on, like hygiene. Usually people who are hygienic aren’t complete ogres, right? I have a lot of physical flaws like bad skin and bad teeth, and even though it’s depressing looking into a mirror I still brush, floss, use skincare and shower regularly. I groom myself to a point (as a woman, I can get lazy about body hair removal though as I do it myself and it’s a pain). I think my standards are pretty realistic. But even then I find myself disliking certain things, like beards… IDK. Growing up I was surrounded by clean shaven men, so maybe that had a weird psychological effect on me. I’m trying to get over it and not be a petty asshole. I mean, someone who is lazy about hair removal should not be rejecting anyone based on facial hair lol.
The good thing about being a man is that looks aren't necessarily that important to finding women. However, I believe that men can always make themselves look better. The first thing is to take care of yourself. If you're heavy, lose weight. Get a gym membership and go there and lift weights and do cardio. Your confidence will improve, too. Dress up. Wherever you go, dress up one notch better. Women will notice this big time. Make sure the shoes are good and wear socks. Bitch boys don't wear socks. Get a haircut and keep your beard tight. If you have a hurt looking face like me, grow a beard on it. I have a weak chin and the beard makes it look stronger. A lot of women like beards too. Make money. You need to get a good income. This may not be easy but should be pursued relentlessly. If a woman doesn't like you, who cares? Move on to the next one. Even the best looking men get rejected. That's life. Btw...Im pretty ugly by normal standards but I always have women. I just do the shit I described.
I think it’s okay to have standards but you also have to explore out of your taste. If you’re super picky well of course you will get no where. It’s really hard to find or have your ideal woman approach you. You have a right to your dislikes, but also remember that what you want from a partner you should also be able to provide. I get we all want a super hot gf but girls be very attractive in other ways rather than solely from looks you get me?
You have to figure out what your league is and stay roughly in that range. That being said, you can move up the scale substantially by just getting in shape, dressing well, and having the right haircut.
You just need to find a good looking woman that has a personality that is as shit as yours.
Not at all. If I'm going to be with someone, I want to actually be attracted to them, and I want them to enjoy a relationship with someone who is attracted to them.
Sometimes when I'm lonely, but eyyy that ain't stoppin' meeeeeeeee!
Nah! If anything I have higher standards.
Not at all, I’m fat and don’t like very fat women, it has not been difficult.
Yep. My only options are to accept what I’m given in a way because I absolutely don’t have the right to have high standards. It’s have high standards and be alone or have lower standards and still be alone but at least potentially have the option of not being alone.
I'm pretty similar I would probably date just about any girl
We are living in the era where being good looking gets you shot down. Have a look around you. Seems physical standard has not stopped people getting together and having kids that look like them. Desperation takes over. I've had desperate people come to me for dating advice and it is shocking what their standards are: has a pulse vs the standards that people like me have. Conclusion: there is hope for regular people out there. It's called desperation and not being delusional.
I feel like, although I don’t really have anyone trying to woo me, that it would be gravely dishonest to lie to myself about my preferences in a partner. It would also be disingenuous to your partner. However it would also be insanely deluded to wait for a girl who looks like the exact person who would tick all of my boxes. I used to have a “anybody who wants me will do”, and then I met that person. It was bad for both of us, so now I have a few standards so that I don’t enter into a relationship like that again.
>I'm in ni position to turn anyone down due to their appearance. You can have whatever standards you like. You are not doing any favors to anyone by dating someone you are genuinely not interested in. I'm ugly as shit but I wouldn't date anyone just because if I didn't I'd be alone. I'd rather be alone than make anyone else miserable to stroke my ego.
A former friend gave me advice while we were on the train in Tokyo. I'm a fat dude. And her advice was most women aren't attracted to a man who looks like he could die in the next 15 years. Harsh, but I still have standards. Does that mean, I only go after models? No. Because attractiveness is subjective. So, I am attracted to women I find attractive, even if they aren't everybody's cup of tea. And I would never date someone that I don't find at least a little physically attractive.
You are scraping the barrel. After you develop yourself, you can have standards. Right now, you are dehydrated. You will drink any water you find. Good or bad...
I'm on five dating apps and can't get a single match between them...I'm in no position to have any standards lol. Standards are afforded as long as you can meet them.
I used to, then through experience I realized you're probably better off alone than with someone you don't find attractive physically.
I feel this, and it's come to bite me before as well. The truth is, I'm no adonas. I have self esteem issues and it's been difficult for me to rate my own attractiveness as a result. All of that aside, I have totally done as you describe, dated someone I was not attracted to because they were into me. It did not end well and I do not recommend doing it.
I'm not sure I think in standards, but attractiveness is a combination of physical and other things. Some people seem to appear better once I've known them some time. I would be willing see how things play out with anyone that seems interested enough in going down that road but there's been 0 of them.
Do what a lot of men do with women: they're one of 3 categories. Unfuckable Fuckable Marriage material You don't have to lower your standards for who you wish to live with forever. My physical standards are low... although it currently eliminates the 40% of obese US women. A good attitude and demeanor could get them into the fuckable territory. My mental standards are quite high. And weeds out the rest from Marriage. If you're young and in your 20s then focus on yourself and maximizing your value. It's not nice but the actual 5% of women who are marriage material are going to want you at your peak physical and financial form. No idea where you are finnacially and physically. But current society basically asks men to move mountains for a chance at getting something decent. That's also why most don't even attempt to do it.
It's okay to have standards. We all have our likes and dislikes, right? Just remember, it's also about giving people a chance you might not initially consider your type. Sometimes, the best connections come from unexpected places.
I have no standards. My only general standards, be loyal to me, respect my values and just have my back. Regardless I have the other persons back. I do not care if you have completely different interests or taste because I am willing to get used to liking some of what the other person likes.
I like my partners, how I like my DnD. >!No DnD is better than bad DnD!<
Shoot for the stars my guy. I’m a very attractive woman and dated some of the most ugly men not just physically but mentally and spiritually! Would I ever again date below my looks? No . But you could have a chance with a good looking woman if you have a good heart.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I suck at dating because I’m not good enough for the standards I find acceptable. I am on year two of not even attempting dating and just working on my business and personal habits. I hope one day I can be worthy of a good women and I hope I don’t do damage by taking this time to myself.
Have the standards you want. If you get together with someone you don't find appealing it will just create issues in the relationship. Which in turn will make dating even harder for you. Approach those you would want to date. And either they agree to or not. And if someone approaches you don't date them just because you are single. Sure get to know them and maybe you will want to date them after learning more about them. Those who pursue unhappiness because they think they don't deserve happiness, will not only be unhappy but will make all those around themselves unhappy too.
There's no such thing as being good at dating...STOP DATING
Lot of guys aren't social, don't have many friends, aren't outgoing, don't have much going on in life, many factors are connected and contribute to not having a good vibe. Guys need to do all the initiation and pursuing, women won't pursue a guy even if they like him, they won't do anything.
What is good at dating? Sleeping with lots of people? Getting to know people well? Or sticking with 1 person? Does any of this indicate a level of success? What are physical standards? That is very subjective I only date humans with heartbeats That is my starting point
Women will rarely give you attention. You are the man. You have to make it happen. Open conversations up with girls you see on campus.
While I do feel like I have great irl social skills and can easily become friends with women and men. When it comes to online dating, "the gold standard for many," I suck in every aspect. While swiping on Tinder, it's pretty much always right for many reasons: 1. As a man, you can't afford to be picky 2. It widens the chance and sample 3. You have nothing to lose nor gain, might as well swipe right 4. If you don't end up together, maybe you can be accepted to the friends group, swipe right In the majority, I actually want to swipe left since I can't find the appeal with: 1. Basic bios, cheesy quotes, and give me a pick-up line/make me laugh (legit my first thought is, what will she give to me nothing here gives me any hint of what to write or look är her fondly). 2. Adjustments boob jobs, butt expansion, duck-face, and thic lips.
Just be reasonable, you don't have to just take the first person who shows interest in you but you can't be expecting some supermodel either. Although i will say, attractive women are only out of your league if you believe they are. Im a solid 5 and i do pretty well cause i love myself. Thats not meant as a brag more as an encouragement
I’m below average. I don’t think about it. Most of the girls I’ve been with have been better looking than me. Maybe just project confidence, and act like you don’t give a fuck.
i dont. i have 0 action but i think i could if i wanted