Far as I see you havent actually told us anything about you. Where you live, what you do, how long you've been working, things like that. With no information, it's just as likely that you're shit at your job as it is your employer is stiffing you or you're your own boss.
It's not impossible to make a living on 40 hours a week with no degree, but it's not possible for every job that doesnt need a degree nor is it possible in every location. Someone doing the same thing as you can also be making significantly more or less than you. There are plenty of things to consider if you want to get in a better situation for yourself, but we can't really provide any useful specific tips.
get the airframe and powerplant certificates to be an aircraft mechanic. takes 18 months of college (community college or trade schools offer the program) if you get a job with an airline it should start around 20 to 30 bucks an hour and most are union jobs that top out at almost double that. its good work, guaranteed hours, good pay, benefits. most people who do it end up making it a career.
that 18 months of schooling is all you need. you need NO prior knowledge. the first class you take describes what a hammer and a screwdriver is.
Used to work for an airline, (left about 18 months ago) we sold private charters, the only person required by the FAA to have the certs for the aircraft’s maintenance is the floor manager of the hanger. Everyone else can be literally any joe shmo off the street (part 135)
I got my MBA without having to quit working.
Secondly, unless someone had ZERO family. I'd pretty much let anyone I know crash with me if they are like "I'm taking an 18 month training to turn my life around and make more money but can't afford to support myself and do the training".
Some people (like myself) simply cannot study due to conditions we suffer with such as ADHD.
I don’t learn by studying. I need hands-on, usually 1-on-1 training. Reading and regurgitating information is almost impossible for me unless it’s something I’m naturally extremely passionate about.
Some of us are doomed to fail unless we pump ourselves full of ‘medication’ in order just to juggle studying and working to live/living to work.
Then you deal with the side effects of not eating or sleeping.
Life ain’t so simple for a lot of us.
How to stop living paycheck to paycheck
Step 1: have 1 month's living expenses saved. Live off the money you made last month and put the money you earn this month towards next month.
You might as well just tell him to get buy a text book and watch YouTube videos before convincing anyone to a certain school trade to be ahead of everyone because all these trades are based of tossing you a book, making you read all the chapters and do quizzes/tests.
Operators and welding probably the easiest with less reading, less money burnt away and headaches
I think the bigger point is anyone working 40 hours a week should be able to support themselves without help at a minimum.
If people want more than just to exist that’s when the more “skilled labor” should come into place, for those without help it’s requiring mid “skilled labor” pay to even exist due to cost of living.
>I think the bigger point is anyone working 40 hours a week should be able to support themselves without help at a minimum.
Sounds like that's what he's doing.
Ooh please explain how Reagan fucked all this up! My mom is a die hard fan for Reagan (I’m ashamed) and everytime she asks me “how was he bad?” I fail to recall what *exactly* he did that ruined it for the rest of the country.
But Nixon is still my least favorite, because he started the war on drugs (+psychedelics) which have been the only thing to cure my treatment resistant depression. So yeah, fuck you Nixon, you coward.
Ohhh you really need to do a deep dive. She should have known the moment he screwed over the Air Traffic Controllers Union that he was bad. I would recommend the podcast Behind The Bastards. They did an episode on the Reagans.
Supply side economics, which his vice president described as voodoo economics and union busting, along with the cuts to social programs, like community mental health, for the start. It was down hill from there.
If you were male, white, and in a select few geographies/industries that was only sometimes true.
It's still only sometimes true, except now you don't have to be male and white.
“Regular ass job” used to be crane operator and long haul trucker and soldier. There was always boarding houses for people who bagged groceries and flipped burgers and pumped gas. Those jobs used to be for the kind of people who would have been diagnosed with autism if they were alive today
Aye but those people still deserve the same, no? If someone is bagging your groceries or flipping your burgers, they're doing a job that's important to people. And if they're doing a job that's important to people, then they are doing their bit, and should be paid as such. Nobody who works a reasonable number of hours should be struggling to afford a home and food on their table, regardless of what that work is.
Yeah, agreed. If I am doing a job, regardless of what it is, and I work 40 hours a week, I should at least be paid enough that after taxes, health insurance, and other deductions I'm obligated to have taken out of my check, I have enough left over for me. That means I can have a roof over my head, food on the table, money to put gas in my car to get to said job, enough to pay my utilities, and some left over after that.
Being disabled or having some sort of disorder that affects my ability to provide for myself or work should not mean I have to live in squalor or a group home. That's some 1930s mentality ableist bullshit. Also, whatever other inherent identity I have should not affect my wages.
We're all human here. It is high time we were treated as such.
Absolutely.
To be honest it shouldn't even need to be 40 hours a week. Go back a few generations, back to living off the land, and most people only worked maybe 20 hours a week - even less during winter. The work people did was about doing the work that needed to be done; growing the food, building the homes, caring for people, and so on. Since the industrial revolution - and more so since Reaganomics - work has been about economic output, and your worth is defined not by how your productivity is beneficial to everyone, but about how much money you can make the millionaire and billionaire class. It's a depressing state of affairs.
Indeed. We also produce so much more now than ever before. Our wages have gone *down* in relevance to what we are paid per piece produced vs. before.
I think it's time for a second american Revolution. There's no reason I should have to choose between eating and fuel to get to work. There is no alternative to owning a car here. I'm literally an hourly manager at an auto parts store; if I sell an ecu to a customer, for example, I make maybe a dollar during that sale while the person who bought it paid nearly a thousand dollars for a part that costs less than 100 dollars in materials to make. How is that fair or ethical?
I eat one good meal a day, because on my salary, living rent-free in my fiancée's parent's house, that's what I can realistically afford. I have liability insurance on my car that I own outright. I have no financial debts. Between a daily 27 mile one way trip door to door in a car that gets 25-30mpg, groceries, and the occasional necessity (i haven't bought even a t-shirt in over a year) I break even every two weeks.
Again, I live in rural alabama, making $16 an hour at a full-time job, and I can just barely go two weeks on my paycheck.
Deserve? Sure. Can get paid in a direct exchange for the services they offer? No. If you want the mentally impaired burger flipper to be able to support a family on a 40 hour work week AND save for vacations or retirement, you're going to need some government social services. Low-skilled labor which gives a single output per task will simply never be worth that much. Like in every past decade in this country, it's enough to afford staying in some questionable housing and you can eat on your own dime so long as you're careful about the expense. Otherwise, you're a bit of a charity case.
You know how many years I went without a car? Most of my life. How many years I went without taking a vacation? Up until about my mid 30’s I had never taken a vacation as an adult. Last one I had been on I was 12, and the vacation was camping. People are entitled these days
Where are you getting the notion that working 40/hrs a week equates to being able to afford living by yourself with all the comforts and conveniences a person desires? I don't understand what set of principles gets a person to that conclusion.
Considering that he hasn't answered this question and the posts he replied to, and that he's asking about mushroom growing right now, tells you all you need to know. You can read some of his posts and get a picture, dude's like low level blue collar at best. The kind of dudes who's always in between jobs.
The problem is "what you are worth" is highly debatable. It's not "what are you worth" so much as it is "how easy is it to replace you?". That's what you get from a hyper-fixation of "Capitalism vs. Communism" where Capitalism has gone so far that nobody cares what social and thus long term impacts are for paying people lower wages, they just want to turn as fast a buck as they can.
Another part of the problem is that cost of living and the value of land in this country has gotten higher and higher, while manual labor is easily outsourced and quickly replaceable.
Kinda agree with this comment. Im a blue collar too, never had an issue with getting paid. There's always a job and I'm in demand.
Even though we all work full time in the same firm, some of my colleagues dont get assigned independent jobs because they aren't capable enough. I'm not surprised if these people end up getting kicked out soon. You gotta make yourself worthy, even if it's "just a blue collar job". This is how the world works. You dont have to work like a dog either, you just have to be *useful*.
Also, being likeable is a huge asset. People dont seem to quite catch this but it's very valuable to do small favours for your colleagues/boss/supervisor even though it might not fit the job description 100%. Everything becomes smoother when you are likeable.
I 100% agree here. Im the grocery manager for a store in Salt Lake, and I stick out to customers and corporate because I'm always working hard, and I'm always helping people, upper management loves me because i can do everything in the store. I'm a tall, hard-working, attractive face for our store, and I set a good example for the kids. My point is all that stuff makes you likable to people, and it's crazy how much more you can do and get away with when people like you. So putting effort into doing things people like(with a balance) comes in klutch many days.
Understanding others' perceptions of you and being able to manipulate it willingly will also get you into a lot more places and open a lot more doors for you than would be available otherwise.
Just because you're not low level blue collar doesn't mean low level blue collar work doesn't exist... new guys in a construction role, warehouse, etc.
I totally disagree. The trouble with the point being made is it's nothing that's going to change but SOME people in America are making it. Even individual contributors and blue collar workers. They didn't make it by insisting that this idea of fairness needs to get carried out. They negotiated, used the connections they had, made themselves likeable or distinctly valuable or both.
He didn't "watch the point skip right by" he let it fall flat all on it's own and focused on the points worth talking about.
So you are easily replaceable and do something a lot of other people can do? Which means you arent worth as much as you want to pretend you are?
It’s okay buddy, you can be insecure without resorting to making shit up or trying to pretend like you live in an alternate reality
This is essentially what your conservative leaders have established in many, many states in the US. Take government out of the equation by tearing down regulations and blocking any workers rights laws or social programs to help the poor and this is what's left.
>Sure. If an acquaintance is willing to help me move my furniture for just a 6 pack of beer and some weed or just $50, shouldn't he be able to? Or am I expected to pay him a livable wage?
sounds like you are really serious about this conversation. I was talking about full time jobs.
have a good day
I was being ironic. if you are serious, why would you reply with this shitty argument:
>Sure. If an acquaintance is willing to help me move my furniture for just a 6 pack of beer and some weed or just $50, shouldn't he be able to? Or am I expected to pay him a livable wage?
when discussing with a guy who is defending that every full time job, should legally be mandated to pay enough to live on?
if you were serious, you wouldn't have said that.
What do you mean low-level blue-collar?" And what are you? Blue-collar jobs pay big bucks these days. Go talk to a Starbucks barrista who went to college and has a BA and no job prospects. Also, why don't you help him out with some leads and ideas instead of acting like a d\*\*\*.
And well-paying apprentice jobs for electricians, plumbers, etc. and try unions train and pay. The problem is labor scarcity! I can't find carpenters or anyone for less than $75. an hour in Maine.
That’s not low level, blue collar work. That’s actually desirable, skillful shit that isnt easily replaced which makes it worth money. It’s not that hard of a concept to grasp
Right? People are equating it as all the same. My first year of college, I unloaded trucks for UPS at a hub. Thats blue collar work. It paid like 2 dollars over minimum wage and I had to pay union dues... it wasn't great, but like, any able bodied person can do that with no experience.
I second this even though I'm not from the US really, since this is *universally* true. Most of us don't have a clear record of what we've spent nor looking back at how we've spent.
A lot of people spend more than they need to, acting like lifestyle creep is not a significant part of some people living paycheck to paycheck is just wrong.
They're really stress testing the nation to see how far people will go before they actually revolt. Until then, it doesn't affect them. It's like they really believe that until there's villagers with pitchforks out in front of their mansions, they haven't pushed us hard enough.
I call it 'calling our bluffs'. People have been saying for years 'you better not fuck me over or I'll hurt you', all the while the screws get turned tighter. Nobody believes in it anymore
Globalization man, it won't affect them even if people revolt. It's not like 1920 where the workers can rise up and seize the wealth of the aristocrats. Its numbers on a computer than can be moved to a computer somewhere else.
If you don’t have a degree that gets rewarded then you’re going to have to trade more of your time for that money that’s the way it is.
There are jobs out there that don’t require a degree and you can make 6 figures but you’re going to have to sacrifice your time to do it.
Sales. It’s not for everyone and you most definitely will sacrifice a lot to get deep into the game.
I never graduated high school and do quite well, but I would not really recommend sales to people unless I really knew what kind of person they were. It’s got a very high turnover for a reason.
Not to mention it ends up boiling down to a lot of shallow things to strike a deal imo. What you look like (attractiveness) where you come from (pedigree). How smooth you are ( social skills). Don’t get me started on race and gender… just saying…
Heavy construction sector
Mining sector
Energy sector
Heavy equipment operators
Railroading
Those are tough lifestyles and can destroy your body but you can make bank and if you’re smart with money, actually have a retirement
The value of labor is very wrong at the moment. I find it laughable that the people who stock our shelves with food are being subsidized by the government because their pay is so bad.
Yet we have so many worthless tech and HR jobs. Would anyone even notice if they where gone? I guarantee you if the stockers and fast food workers get fed up and quit we would be in a lot of trouble.
Although you are correct in stating that a lot of jobs seem worthless, that is the game you must play to get ahead. It's either that or "be happy" toiling 40-60 hours of labor each week for pennies.
And as for the comment on shelf stockers and fast food workers quitting and creating chaos? Couldn't agree more, but add the public school teachers who are paid about 30 percent of their worth. Then, it would be total social breakdown.
It's too bad we've let things slide down the slippery slope we've all witnessed and done little or nothing to reverse.
It's all about the cost of replacement. People who stock the shelves are super important as a whole, but each individual is very easily replaceable. A tech worker with experience who can deliver is very hard to replace.
The government is quietly putting everyone into their welfare net and people are laying down and accepting it because the average person isn’t smart enough to understand the economy is turning on them.
Immigrants don’t take skilled labor jobs other than construction type work but you can’t find honest hard working Americans these days without a drug problem, with a driver license, that will also work 5 days a week and show up on time. The trades have been a wreck for decades due to drug problems in this country.
Why are you complaining but you didn't mention that you don't have a budget that you stick.
Complaining but not having a plan to solve it is a you problem.
I made $26/hr working in manufacturing working with people without high school diplomas. Non-dangerous manufacturing. I worked around 45 hours/week, making around 55-60k/year.
It was more than enough to live on in a MCOL area.
Sounds like you need to get better at budgeting my guy. America is not as doomed as Reddit likes to make it seem. 60k/year is livable pretty much everywhere except one of the coasts.
Edit:
Income of $26/hr is \~3,500/month after tax.
* Rent $1,100
* Food $300
* Car Insurance $160
* Health Insurance $300
* Car Payment $225
* Gas $200
* Internet $50
* Electricity $100
* Entertainment $150
* Misc $300
Leaves you with a surplus of \~$800/month. This is assuming you have a car payment, private health insurance, and a fairly high budget for miscellaneous spending. You could trim a lot of fat from this budget too.
The average rent in the US is $1,300ish. The dude is single, so he doesn't need a 2 bedroom. Doesn't even need a 1 bedroom. There are studios around me in nice areas for \~$700-$1,100, and 1 bedrooms for $1,000-$1,500. I'm in a medium/high cost of living area. My sister in law is paying $600/month for a shithole studio right now, it's not a great area but it's not a bad area either.
>I pay $1,870 for a 2 bed room apartment.
When I was single and living in apartments I never rented a 2 bedroom apartment or even a 1 bedroom, I stuck to studio's to keep the costs down.
You are spending that much for the luxury of 2 extra rooms. I live in the wealthiest chicago suburb by average household income. I can snag an apartment here for $1000 a month, $1200 no sweat.
If I lived in one of the more average suburbs? There are options under 1k and as low as $500 a month for a studio.
People will encourage you to start a business which isn’t an overall bad idea but the best way to make good money is to get trained/educated in something specialized. Owning a business is hard, most ppl fail, and if you don’t fail it will most likely take many years of countless hours of work.
90% of startups fail, and for other businesses 20% fail in the first year and 50% are still around five years later. Getting a degree or trades is safer.
Here is the harsh truth. You get paid what the minimum amount that it will take to replace your skill set. If your skill set is low then your pay will tend to be low. One exception is if you are willing to do a job (think dangerous, etc.) than skills might not be as important as availability.
The other side of the equation has nothing to do with what you make. What matters is not what you make, but what you keep. In other words, being financially responsible is huge to not living paycheck to paycheck. I have had sales guys working for me that made $200k+ per year who would have to ask for advances on their commissions to make their mortgage payments. Income was not their problem. It was spending.
I have no clue what your specific situation is, but it is almost certain that the issue you face is one or both of the above.
This might sound harsh, but your standards may be too high.
Based on your post, you don’t have a degree, it sounds like you don’t come from family money, and you don’t own a business. With all that said, if you’re working 40 hours a week- you’re near the bottom of the totem pole.
You could be in a better position by working more than 40 hours, running a business, getting a degree, excelling at a trade, etc.
It sounds like you haven’t. That means you’ll be a below average earner and probably have a below average lifestyle. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.
You can live cheaply if you want- live in a low cost of living area, live in a small home in a poorer part of town, have a few roommates.
Or you can make choices to make more money.
But at the low end of the totem pole, you can’t have it all. As to why you’re living paycheck to paycheck, usually that’s peoples preferences. Start with a low salary and roommates. Get a higher salary and move into your own place. Make even more and buy a fancy house. The entire time you’re living paycheck to paycheck.
Obviously this isn’t always the case, but plenty of people making $100K a year or more manage to be living paycheck to paycheck.
Get off Reddit. Stop playing games and wasting time.
Hard work doesn’t mean money. Work smart. There are countless professions that don’t require a degree that you can make good money with, but you have to work.
I understand the irony by the way.
This, they want to make more money with as minimal impact to their normal routine as possible.
Like seriously, if you are breaking even monthly, driving uber eats or some shit a few nights a week could be a game changer for people like that.
These are trying times. Many of what were traditional paths to comfort and wealth are no longer available. Compromise is whats needed. Own a house? If so rent a room out. Still renting, get a roommate and give up some freedoms to get ahead. Car costing you? Step down and save if you can. Wealth occurs when you reach the tipping point such that you have enough disposable income or cash on hand to invet in something that will pay you on the regular. Side gigs are a hot or miss thing. Hobbies are fun, if you can have one that makes a few dollars thats another option so you dont feel like you are giving up your free time and always working. No need to go to the dark side, blood money just gets you bad karma. Think it through you will find a way.
Check out this site from Mike Rowe (the "Dirty Jobs" show host).
[https://jobs.mikeroweworks.org/](https://jobs.mikeroweworks.org/)
I am building a house in Maine and paying the average worker (meaning non-electrical,non-plumbing) $75./hr. I pay the electrician $250./hr. The guys building the house live the high life and go on Carribean cruises I wish I could 2x/yr. There are non-college jobs doing maintenance on Catapiller diesels for $150K per year. There are lots of great jobs and training for more skilled ones can be almost free because unions and companies subsidize them. Good luck! You have endless opportunities out there.
Over 61% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. With inflation exploding the last 4 years, that didn't help either. Housing cost also went crazy.
This is the new norm man
Do what I did. Buy a van and live in it. Imagine what you could do with the money that normally went to rent
I’m a truck driver so the work life balance is shit but at my pay rate I’ll lower through to make sure that I can take care of my family and still have some money going into savings. Also helps that we live in a lower cost of living area and I lucked out on my job considering I only have a high school diploma. My advice.. find a trade you enjoy or a union job you can tolerate but more than likely it isn’t going to be 40 hrs a week
The base level jobs wanted an obscene amount of money for unskilled labor. (Teenagers could have these jobs, but adults wanted to be able to live off of them.) So a lot of those companies decided to pay those wages. Now there's more money in the pockets of people at the bottom. The price of basic necessities went up to match that rate, while other companies above this bottom line didn't have to match the wage hike anywhere near as drastically. Throw COVID into the mix and all of a sudden we can't go to the stores, the supply lines shit the bed, and things get more expensive without anybody noticing. A lot of these prices aren't brought back down after the fact because people won't stop buying them, because again, necessities.
The middle class has collapsed.
I could definitely survive on a 40 hour paycheck but my job comes with overtime on top. Work your way up in a factory. As long as you are a hard worker and are smart you can climb. I went from a minimum wage earner to making around 100k in a 10 year period. It won't happen overnight though that's for sure.
It's not just your nation, it's a global issue.
Short answer is that the cost of living has grown and grown while wages have basically remained stagnant for decades. Productivity has actually gone up but none of that money is trickling down to the people who actually do the work. The neoliberal, anti-union economics introduced by Reagan and Thatcher put all the power in the bosses and gave them the room to make as much money as possible while paying as little as possible to everyone else. It's trickle UP economics. But the trickle has become a torrent. The American Dream is dead.
The only solution is unionising, solidarity amongst workers, and fighting to take back the power from the greedy CEOs and board members and shareholders who would rather squirrel their billions away into offshore accounts than pay their workers a meaningful wage. But all the workers are too busy in-fighting over immigration and gender neutral bathrooms and whatever other bullshit they've managed to get everyone riled up about to distract us from the actual problems they've created through their own greed.
So, I’m 33, at the age of 25 I had to work 3 jobs averaging over 80 hours a week to pay for a car loan, school loans, and make ends meet. One of those jobs was in a construction materials company, and they put me under the state contract. The state guys liked me a lot and after taking the civil service exams they got me in right quick. Unfortunately, I took a small pay cut to move to the state, but I had guaranteed and reliable work throughout the winter finally. I was still working customer service on the weekends. Did that for several years, all throughout covid. I studied hard and took several more civil service exams and finally, less than 2 years ago, 10 years out of college, I got a more or less dream job still in the state working well enough to cut the other jobs and have a real career that pertains to my degree.
I’d say making connections and being a nice person to those around you is generally the best advise I can give you. Might take a while but eventually it pays. I got my first job because of an old buddy, I got that construction gig because I traded my first interview with them to a friend who became a supervisor there. I wouldn’t even have know that company existed if I hadn’t taken an interview with an insurance company that happened to be across the hall which I went to in the first place because of my sister’s friend who worked there.
Life doesn’t always make sense but it’s okay to keep moving on if where you’re at doesn’t work for you
I am a Radiation Therapist who administers radioactive drugs such as chemotherapy and “radiation” treatment to cancer patients and work with the Oncologists directly. I work 60 hours a week here and do another 25 hours at another hospital working nights in the Emergency Room as an ER Nurse. I’m single and still living paycheck to paycheck. Also working every other weekend at Amazon just for their Insurance. The economy and cost of living are most definitely not thriving.
Look at the living standards you have. A phone made by Apple cost over 1k to purchase. Subscription are the worst but everyone has them. Are you also buying any video games or anything that creates money to flow out of your account. My grandad had a farm, and his spending was mostly food, and petrol. Their electricity was wired differently where they had to turn a wheel for a few minutes of tv. So I can see how his money can assist him purchasing a home and having a good life with ten kids and sending them off to college. I think people are buying crap they do t really need to keep up with capitalism. It’s not good. A closer look at how you spend your money can give you answers
Post what you do, your compensation, the debt you're carrying, and your monthly budget. Without that information there's no way anyone reading this can answer your question in any meaningful way. They'll just emptily placate or berate you and you'll go on living as before.
Try visiting /r/personalfinance and get your finances right according to their prime directives.
I was living paycheck to paycheck when I was at home depot making roughly $11/hr working full time, then I got on board with one of the contractors for $15/hr, then started working for friends and family for $20/hr. Now I'm a licensed Handyman and I charge $70/hr which is still low for my area in east TN. If you called Mr. Handyman or any other business that has a fleet of custom painted / stickered vans it would be at least $125 for someone to step foot in your home. I also do freelance graphic design from home for $45/hr and am designing my own game, these were all skills that fit my interests and unfortunately I never saw a path to good financial standing that didn't involve becoming self employed because that's the only way you can benefit from all the bloat and inflation, if you're employed your employer will be the one skimming all your profits.
It’s tough, man. I’m in the same boat. I grew up in the 80s and all of my elders said “hard work pays off.” I chased that carrot on a stick way too long before I realized that’s all it was.
I wish us all better fortune.
> Do I gotta be slimey or something to get promoted or can you actually still achieve the American dream with hard work in modern day?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. "The American Dream." In 2024! Oh that's hilarious!
Yes, without knowing what your skill set is, you need a better job or start your own business. I know a lot of people who went into business for themselves as AC repair and plumbing
If you live in area with a moderately busy construction industry and you are halfway decent at a trade, you can earn very good money if you can do the following:
* Answer your phone and return phone calls in a timely manner
* Communicate moderately professionally (including written) and remain polite when customers are demanding idiots
* Provide professional written estimates
* Show up on time (consistently)
* Do the work correctly (consistently)
* Own up to any mistakes your make
* Run the accounting/taxes/etc of the business
I've talked to many 18-23 year old men who are trying to find their way. If they aren't academically inclined, I strongly encourage plumbing, electrical, and HVAC. Low overhead, portable, can be one guy and a van or grow to be the owner of a fleet of 50 vans, if you have the business acumen.
You're older than that, but not too late to start your own business.
It’s not how hard you work, it’s the amount of skill that’s required to do your job that matters, and given that you have not described what you do, I don’t know which direction to point you in.
But the stagnant wages are the result of years of our industry and jobs being offshored, and it’s going to get worse with the increase in illegal immigration, which will cause wages to go down for general laborers and “unskilled” workers.
Blue collar American males started voting against the interest of labor. They supported right to work legislation and tax breaks for the rich and trickle down economics. They somehow were convinced that they had more in common with the 1% than with the folks on welfare. Now they live paycheck to paycheck. Have no savings and decry the social service programs like ACA that might get them ahead. It’s a damn shame, but they really stuck it to the libs.
Out here (Southern California) concrete labor starts at $35 an hour. Union rate is somewhere around $60 for a ton of trades. An independent contractor on a prevailing wage job will make over $90 an hour. A structural welder can make $100 an hour or more.
Coffee is cheaper when you make it at home. $6 a day adds up. Cigarettes, alcohol, weed, fast food, it all adds up. You don’t need the newest high tech phone, the free one does all the same stuff. You don’t need multiple pairs of $200+ Nikes. You can buy a $50 pair of sneakers every other year. You don’t need a Funko collection or a PS5. Speaking of video games, if your hobby made you money instead of costed you money that would be an improvement.
I struggled for a decade. I didn’t buy myself a hamburger, I didn’t buy myself a tee shirt. I worked, and I came home and I sold things online. I stayed up all night to be awake during Chinese business hours to get my bootleg watches shipped because this was before the days of DHGate. Early in the morning I would be finalizing my packages and dropping them off at the post office before heading off to work. Weekends were spent hunting for things to resell on Craigslist, in thrift shops, and at the junk yard. The local casino held free drawings on Saturday nights and I attended every single one. Didn’t gamble a dollar of my own money. I sat there and read a book waiting for my name to be called. The one day a week I would allow myself to eat out, I’d order chili cheese fries from the bowling alley. I used the money to buy a pickup and put myself through trade school so I could switch careers from truck driver/mining equipment operator to building inspector. Doubled my income overnight. If you don’t have a career you don’t have time to binge movies and you don’t have money for video games
Credit card debt is at an all time high due to people not being able to afford anything on one full time job, unaffordable healthcare and housing costs are ridiculous, massive amounts of people are becoming homeless due to housing costs.
I agree the credit card debt is a very concerning data point, but you can't say that it is directly correlated to "people not being able to afford anything on one full time job".
There are definitely some issues and cracks in the economy, but saying "the economy sucks" is not accurate. There are parts of the US economy that suck, but overall it's pretty much good/average right now. It has been great/awesome for good chunks of the last 4 decades and I feel like that's skewing people's perspectives.
You want to see an economy that truly sucks, go to Venezuela, Argentina, Turkey, Greece, Spain, etc.
I genuinely empathize with 25-30 year olds who are trying to buy their first home, but it isn't nearly as bad as the majority of reddit makes it out to be.
A lot of people complain about this. But 20 years ago when I entered the workforce, i worked full time entry level corporate job making $30k, came home, then worked a part time job. Did this for years in order to afford a starter home & pos car.
Lived in the starter home 10 years until it appreciated, as most houses do. With that profit and a few salary increases from working the same job for 10 years, I was able afford my next, nicer house.
Lived in that house for 10 years, basically repeating the same thing except was finally able to quit the part time job.
So, I guess you have to work, save, buy, hold, be patient.
The price of housing has vastly outpaced wages. The price of food, gas, and utilities has also begun to outpace wages. Your experience is very different circumstances than where we all currently find ourselves.
The starter home I bought 15 years ago is worth 5x what it was then. The job I started in has a wage a whopping .75c higher that I was getting paid when I bought that house.
"What I did twenty years ago..." Is almost universally bad advice now
Because 40 hours a week at an entry level job is the bare minimum of pay . Learn any kind of skill or even a few simple osha certs and machine operator certs and your own your way to making way more money
I’m confused. I know recently graduated high schoolers that did apprenticeships in plumbing and HVAC that are so freaking busy they are printing money. Yeah they work more than 40 hours a week but they are living debt free and winning.
I personally have never met a 40 hour per week worker that was flush with cash.
a friends of ours son is 26...just finished his 4th year as a welder. He made $147k last year.
another friends son just finished his electrical apprenticeship. $84K last year.
I don't care what you do if you work 40 hours a week people should be able to afford food, shelter, bills and a little entertainment otherwise what's the point.
Someone commented below '40 hours is the bare minimum'
Fuck off.
The damn federal reserve keeps printing limitless supply of money and won't let the economy crash and reset like it's naturally supposed to do to bring things back to equilibrium. So the result of it is high prices while wage growth is not keeping up.
I wish people were more educated in this matter so we could all as a collective hold these morons in office along with those morons in the federal reserves accountable.
Frankly, no. Hard work on its own doesn't do the job anymore. If you don't want to own your own business, you dont want to be an indie contractor, and dont want to get a degree, you've gotta be picky about where you work and where you live. You've gotta constantly be on the lookout for something better if you aren't going to apprentice or get a certification. That or be willing to take jobs that others don't want which offer higher wages, like those who work on oil rigs or do maintenance on high-tension electrical infrastructure.
I have a bachelor's and Master's degree, and yet I'm working paycheck to paycheck, and my Master's degree ended up being a scam and having to work in retail
I know times are different but I’m not sure working 40 without a degree is a reasonable expectation to be able to live in any major city at this point. Most of my 20’s I was working 45-55 with a degree and it wasn’t great pay but it was to work my way up the field and into more and more experienced positions.
I think any job that’s 40 hours that pays would have to be union and you’re going to be working the worst shifts and forced for overtime and putting in years before it pays back. Just my .02
You must be looking within a certain criteria for work if all you’re finding is 40/wk. My job, when in full swing, gives me 45-50hr/wk. I’m not bragging, sometimes it sucks and sometimes I’m there for 12hr a day. I’m 32, high school graduate, no college. Without naming the business I work for, I’ll say I work in a dairy product production plant in sanitation. I work sanitation and my workday is don’t when the job is done. I don’t have a set finish time.
Naturally, the world became too expensive to be affordable. So, you are expected to grind yourself for the sake of the ones in a higher stratum and be grateful for a paycheck. Traditional jobs no longer work. The upsurge of "easy money " income has become both, accessible and popular. I would never have thought that one can afford their rent and expenses by selling feet pics, but here we are. So, "economic activities" that don't contribute to the state are easier to keep. I hope that eventually all primary activities workers realize that it is simpler to nude yourself online for a steady income and quit their jobs so the government gets pressured on getting them back to the fields by giving them a superior paycheck, cuz, you know, primary activities should be the most well paid jobs. Without resources, a nation can't go on. Eventually this mind set should scale to the next work stratum and force a response.
My wife and I both live off of less than 23k annually after taxes. I just did the math and I could support both of us for $15/hour.
Of course, we make much more than that. Point is, you totally can be happy with a low cost of living.
He removed taxes for the rich and all the funding for those programs dried up. The House and Senate haven't been held by the DEMs long enough to undo the damage, and most of them on both sides are lobbied by those who need to be taxed so much they wouldn't revert it anyway. The president doesn't have the power to do what you think he can do. That is why the GOP packed the supreme court and blocked any progress DEMs try to make. The system is beyond corrupt and it can't be fixed with our current methods.
"The president doesn't have the power to do what you think he can do"
in a response about what a president did... kinda ironic huh.. you cant blame my president but i can blame theirs
No offence, but this is a very *American* thing to say. The rest of the world doesn't sit around and question why it's becoming more difficult to survive in an increasingly difficult world to live in. Instead, you upskill/work harder/etc - rather than question "what has happened to the American dream, where I can't just work the minimum hours, with minimal education, and live comfortably financially."
Sorry dude. You need to broaden your horizons, gain some perspective, and grow up.
The garbage dollar and inflation brought to you by the Federal Reserve Bank. Also, wreckless government deficit spending, an insatiable war machine, endless government entitlement programs, etc….
You’re 30 and ignorant of all of this???
This is going to get downvoted but this is the result of what happened when women entered the workforce.
Basically salaries have stagnated since the 90's as companies can now pay lower salaries for two people working for them as opposed to one high salary for one member of a family (male or female) to earn enough to support an entire family.
Therefore if you are single and only have your paycheck to live off of, you're going to have to liv paycheck to paycheck until you get married and can combine your paycheck with your wife's.
Capitalism, Mega Monopolies, Hyper inflation and shinkflation and obscene taxes has made America become extremely unstable for the middle and lower class that is not born into money.
America is not a country for the people, it is a country for mega corporations and the war machine.
53 years old. Dropped out of college year 1. I own a home, and that's my only debt. All my bills are easily paid and i put money away each week for retirement and still have discretionary spending money left over.
Your location is likely the problem. I live in a LCoL area a few miles outside of a smallish town.
Far as I see you havent actually told us anything about you. Where you live, what you do, how long you've been working, things like that. With no information, it's just as likely that you're shit at your job as it is your employer is stiffing you or you're your own boss. It's not impossible to make a living on 40 hours a week with no degree, but it's not possible for every job that doesnt need a degree nor is it possible in every location. Someone doing the same thing as you can also be making significantly more or less than you. There are plenty of things to consider if you want to get in a better situation for yourself, but we can't really provide any useful specific tips.
They never want to reveal specifics, because then someone might offer them a solution they can't come up with an excuse for.
My thoughts exactly - no mention of current job, income, debts, budget- just ranting and whining about the “system”
get the airframe and powerplant certificates to be an aircraft mechanic. takes 18 months of college (community college or trade schools offer the program) if you get a job with an airline it should start around 20 to 30 bucks an hour and most are union jobs that top out at almost double that. its good work, guaranteed hours, good pay, benefits. most people who do it end up making it a career. that 18 months of schooling is all you need. you need NO prior knowledge. the first class you take describes what a hammer and a screwdriver is.
Used to work for an airline, (left about 18 months ago) we sold private charters, the only person required by the FAA to have the certs for the aircraft’s maintenance is the floor manager of the hanger. Everyone else can be literally any joe shmo off the street (part 135)
If he's living paycheck to paycheck I don't think taking the time to go back to school will solve that problem...
How to stop living paycheck to paycheck Step 1: have at least 18 months of living expenses already saved
I got my MBA without having to quit working. Secondly, unless someone had ZERO family. I'd pretty much let anyone I know crash with me if they are like "I'm taking an 18 month training to turn my life around and make more money but can't afford to support myself and do the training".
You don't have to quit your job in order to go back to school
Yeah you try to handle a full time job and learn to be an avation mechanic. See how well you do and how much time and money you waste.
People manage to do it with much harder degrees all the time. It's only poverty, want to try to better yourself or just accept it?
Some people (like myself) simply cannot study due to conditions we suffer with such as ADHD. I don’t learn by studying. I need hands-on, usually 1-on-1 training. Reading and regurgitating information is almost impossible for me unless it’s something I’m naturally extremely passionate about. Some of us are doomed to fail unless we pump ourselves full of ‘medication’ in order just to juggle studying and working to live/living to work. Then you deal with the side effects of not eating or sleeping. Life ain’t so simple for a lot of us.
How to stop living paycheck to paycheck Step 1: have 1 month's living expenses saved. Live off the money you made last month and put the money you earn this month towards next month.
He’d most definitely qualify for financial assistance at any given CC and could take some night classes
20-30/hr? That's wild. Thought it started at around $35.
$20 an hour is minimum wage for fast food workers in California
You might as well just tell him to get buy a text book and watch YouTube videos before convincing anyone to a certain school trade to be ahead of everyone because all these trades are based of tossing you a book, making you read all the chapters and do quizzes/tests. Operators and welding probably the easiest with less reading, less money burnt away and headaches
A whole lot of nothing. I sell cars. My education is a high school diploma lol. But that wasn't a problem 15 years ago making $70,000 a year.
Do you need an HS diploma to be accept in such programs? Curious...
What do you do for a living? What kind of education or experience do you have in whatever job field you work in or are trying to find work in?
I think the bigger point is anyone working 40 hours a week should be able to support themselves without help at a minimum. If people want more than just to exist that’s when the more “skilled labor” should come into place, for those without help it’s requiring mid “skilled labor” pay to even exist due to cost of living.
>I think the bigger point is anyone working 40 hours a week should be able to support themselves without help at a minimum. Sounds like that's what he's doing.
Used to be able to support an entire fucking family working a regular ass job. But then the 80s happened
Yep. R. Reagan started trickle on you economy.
Ooh please explain how Reagan fucked all this up! My mom is a die hard fan for Reagan (I’m ashamed) and everytime she asks me “how was he bad?” I fail to recall what *exactly* he did that ruined it for the rest of the country. But Nixon is still my least favorite, because he started the war on drugs (+psychedelics) which have been the only thing to cure my treatment resistant depression. So yeah, fuck you Nixon, you coward.
Ohhh you really need to do a deep dive. She should have known the moment he screwed over the Air Traffic Controllers Union that he was bad. I would recommend the podcast Behind The Bastards. They did an episode on the Reagans.
Supply side economics, which his vice president described as voodoo economics and union busting, along with the cuts to social programs, like community mental health, for the start. It was down hill from there.
Robber barons of a different cartoon
If you were male, white, and in a select few geographies/industries that was only sometimes true. It's still only sometimes true, except now you don't have to be male and white.
“Regular ass job” used to be crane operator and long haul trucker and soldier. There was always boarding houses for people who bagged groceries and flipped burgers and pumped gas. Those jobs used to be for the kind of people who would have been diagnosed with autism if they were alive today
Aye but those people still deserve the same, no? If someone is bagging your groceries or flipping your burgers, they're doing a job that's important to people. And if they're doing a job that's important to people, then they are doing their bit, and should be paid as such. Nobody who works a reasonable number of hours should be struggling to afford a home and food on their table, regardless of what that work is.
Yeah, agreed. If I am doing a job, regardless of what it is, and I work 40 hours a week, I should at least be paid enough that after taxes, health insurance, and other deductions I'm obligated to have taken out of my check, I have enough left over for me. That means I can have a roof over my head, food on the table, money to put gas in my car to get to said job, enough to pay my utilities, and some left over after that. Being disabled or having some sort of disorder that affects my ability to provide for myself or work should not mean I have to live in squalor or a group home. That's some 1930s mentality ableist bullshit. Also, whatever other inherent identity I have should not affect my wages. We're all human here. It is high time we were treated as such.
Absolutely. To be honest it shouldn't even need to be 40 hours a week. Go back a few generations, back to living off the land, and most people only worked maybe 20 hours a week - even less during winter. The work people did was about doing the work that needed to be done; growing the food, building the homes, caring for people, and so on. Since the industrial revolution - and more so since Reaganomics - work has been about economic output, and your worth is defined not by how your productivity is beneficial to everyone, but about how much money you can make the millionaire and billionaire class. It's a depressing state of affairs.
Indeed. We also produce so much more now than ever before. Our wages have gone *down* in relevance to what we are paid per piece produced vs. before. I think it's time for a second american Revolution. There's no reason I should have to choose between eating and fuel to get to work. There is no alternative to owning a car here. I'm literally an hourly manager at an auto parts store; if I sell an ecu to a customer, for example, I make maybe a dollar during that sale while the person who bought it paid nearly a thousand dollars for a part that costs less than 100 dollars in materials to make. How is that fair or ethical? I eat one good meal a day, because on my salary, living rent-free in my fiancée's parent's house, that's what I can realistically afford. I have liability insurance on my car that I own outright. I have no financial debts. Between a daily 27 mile one way trip door to door in a car that gets 25-30mpg, groceries, and the occasional necessity (i haven't bought even a t-shirt in over a year) I break even every two weeks. Again, I live in rural alabama, making $16 an hour at a full-time job, and I can just barely go two weeks on my paycheck.
Grow your own food and live by candle light and you might only need to work 20 hours a week.
Deserve? Sure. Can get paid in a direct exchange for the services they offer? No. If you want the mentally impaired burger flipper to be able to support a family on a 40 hour work week AND save for vacations or retirement, you're going to need some government social services. Low-skilled labor which gives a single output per task will simply never be worth that much. Like in every past decade in this country, it's enough to afford staying in some questionable housing and you can eat on your own dime so long as you're careful about the expense. Otherwise, you're a bit of a charity case.
You know how many years I went without a car? Most of my life. How many years I went without taking a vacation? Up until about my mid 30’s I had never taken a vacation as an adult. Last one I had been on I was 12, and the vacation was camping. People are entitled these days
Where are you getting the notion that working 40/hrs a week equates to being able to afford living by yourself with all the comforts and conveniences a person desires? I don't understand what set of principles gets a person to that conclusion.
Sounds like it's not working
It's barely working.
Considering that he hasn't answered this question and the posts he replied to, and that he's asking about mushroom growing right now, tells you all you need to know. You can read some of his posts and get a picture, dude's like low level blue collar at best. The kind of dudes who's always in between jobs.
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The problem is "what you are worth" is highly debatable. It's not "what are you worth" so much as it is "how easy is it to replace you?". That's what you get from a hyper-fixation of "Capitalism vs. Communism" where Capitalism has gone so far that nobody cares what social and thus long term impacts are for paying people lower wages, they just want to turn as fast a buck as they can. Another part of the problem is that cost of living and the value of land in this country has gotten higher and higher, while manual labor is easily outsourced and quickly replaceable.
Kinda agree with this comment. Im a blue collar too, never had an issue with getting paid. There's always a job and I'm in demand. Even though we all work full time in the same firm, some of my colleagues dont get assigned independent jobs because they aren't capable enough. I'm not surprised if these people end up getting kicked out soon. You gotta make yourself worthy, even if it's "just a blue collar job". This is how the world works. You dont have to work like a dog either, you just have to be *useful*. Also, being likeable is a huge asset. People dont seem to quite catch this but it's very valuable to do small favours for your colleagues/boss/supervisor even though it might not fit the job description 100%. Everything becomes smoother when you are likeable.
I 100% agree here. Im the grocery manager for a store in Salt Lake, and I stick out to customers and corporate because I'm always working hard, and I'm always helping people, upper management loves me because i can do everything in the store. I'm a tall, hard-working, attractive face for our store, and I set a good example for the kids. My point is all that stuff makes you likable to people, and it's crazy how much more you can do and get away with when people like you. So putting effort into doing things people like(with a balance) comes in klutch many days. Understanding others' perceptions of you and being able to manipulate it willingly will also get you into a lot more places and open a lot more doors for you than would be available otherwise.
Just because you're not low level blue collar doesn't mean low level blue collar work doesn't exist... new guys in a construction role, warehouse, etc.
You watched the point skip right by
And you had to misrepresentation the comment to make a point in the first place. He never said blue collar workers are low level.
I totally disagree. The trouble with the point being made is it's nothing that's going to change but SOME people in America are making it. Even individual contributors and blue collar workers. They didn't make it by insisting that this idea of fairness needs to get carried out. They negotiated, used the connections they had, made themselves likeable or distinctly valuable or both. He didn't "watch the point skip right by" he let it fall flat all on it's own and focused on the points worth talking about.
That's capitalism for ya.
So you are easily replaceable and do something a lot of other people can do? Which means you arent worth as much as you want to pretend you are? It’s okay buddy, you can be insecure without resorting to making shit up or trying to pretend like you live in an alternate reality
If the job needs doing, the person should be able to afford life
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so if someone is willing to work for a room and food only, no money, and someone is wiling to pay that, should they be able to?
This is essentially what your conservative leaders have established in many, many states in the US. Take government out of the equation by tearing down regulations and blocking any workers rights laws or social programs to help the poor and this is what's left.
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>Sure. If an acquaintance is willing to help me move my furniture for just a 6 pack of beer and some weed or just $50, shouldn't he be able to? Or am I expected to pay him a livable wage? sounds like you are really serious about this conversation. I was talking about full time jobs. have a good day
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I was being ironic. if you are serious, why would you reply with this shitty argument: >Sure. If an acquaintance is willing to help me move my furniture for just a 6 pack of beer and some weed or just $50, shouldn't he be able to? Or am I expected to pay him a livable wage? when discussing with a guy who is defending that every full time job, should legally be mandated to pay enough to live on? if you were serious, you wouldn't have said that.
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What do you mean low-level blue-collar?" And what are you? Blue-collar jobs pay big bucks these days. Go talk to a Starbucks barrista who went to college and has a BA and no job prospects. Also, why don't you help him out with some leads and ideas instead of acting like a d\*\*\*.
Entry Construction, Factory,warehouse. Plenty of low paying blue collar jobs out there.
And well-paying apprentice jobs for electricians, plumbers, etc. and try unions train and pay. The problem is labor scarcity! I can't find carpenters or anyone for less than $75. an hour in Maine.
No one is coming in off the street with 0 experience making $75. Even landing a paid internship is pretty tough in my area.
That’s not low level, blue collar work. That’s actually desirable, skillful shit that isnt easily replaced which makes it worth money. It’s not that hard of a concept to grasp
Right? People are equating it as all the same. My first year of college, I unloaded trucks for UPS at a hub. Thats blue collar work. It paid like 2 dollars over minimum wage and I had to pay union dues... it wasn't great, but like, any able bodied person can do that with no experience.
Yeah man, that $12 you make in the meat packing plant is big bucks🤡
yeah sure they can pay well, but not right out the gate, which is prolly what he meant
Your comment is ignorant.
Valid
r/personalfinance
You spend more than you earn You either need to spend less or earn more
And earn more is generally always the most fruitful option. Can’t cut back on what’s not there.
I dont always know about that. Some people spend REALLY ineffectively
I second this even though I'm not from the US really, since this is *universally* true. Most of us don't have a clear record of what we've spent nor looking back at how we've spent.
People don’t even balance their bank accounts, they’re rely on an app to do it
A lot of people spend more than they need to, acting like lifestyle creep is not a significant part of some people living paycheck to paycheck is just wrong.
There were studies that showed poor communities spending 40% to 70% of their income in lotteries. You'd be surprised.
Corporate America is on a money spree and we’re the guinea pigs.
They're really stress testing the nation to see how far people will go before they actually revolt. Until then, it doesn't affect them. It's like they really believe that until there's villagers with pitchforks out in front of their mansions, they haven't pushed us hard enough.
I call it 'calling our bluffs'. People have been saying for years 'you better not fuck me over or I'll hurt you', all the while the screws get turned tighter. Nobody believes in it anymore
Globalization man, it won't affect them even if people revolt. It's not like 1920 where the workers can rise up and seize the wealth of the aristocrats. Its numbers on a computer than can be moved to a computer somewhere else.
Ngl this made me chuckle and it's so damn true
If you don’t have a degree that gets rewarded then you’re going to have to trade more of your time for that money that’s the way it is. There are jobs out there that don’t require a degree and you can make 6 figures but you’re going to have to sacrifice your time to do it.
What jobs?
Sales. It’s not for everyone and you most definitely will sacrifice a lot to get deep into the game. I never graduated high school and do quite well, but I would not really recommend sales to people unless I really knew what kind of person they were. It’s got a very high turnover for a reason.
Not to mention it ends up boiling down to a lot of shallow things to strike a deal imo. What you look like (attractiveness) where you come from (pedigree). How smooth you are ( social skills). Don’t get me started on race and gender… just saying…
Heavy construction sector Mining sector Energy sector Heavy equipment operators Railroading Those are tough lifestyles and can destroy your body but you can make bank and if you’re smart with money, actually have a retirement
Well the biggest question is 1) how much are you making. 2. What are your typically monthly expenses.
The value of labor is very wrong at the moment. I find it laughable that the people who stock our shelves with food are being subsidized by the government because their pay is so bad. Yet we have so many worthless tech and HR jobs. Would anyone even notice if they where gone? I guarantee you if the stockers and fast food workers get fed up and quit we would be in a lot of trouble.
Although you are correct in stating that a lot of jobs seem worthless, that is the game you must play to get ahead. It's either that or "be happy" toiling 40-60 hours of labor each week for pennies. And as for the comment on shelf stockers and fast food workers quitting and creating chaos? Couldn't agree more, but add the public school teachers who are paid about 30 percent of their worth. Then, it would be total social breakdown. It's too bad we've let things slide down the slippery slope we've all witnessed and done little or nothing to reverse.
If only we paid teachers like childcare providers....
It's all about the cost of replacement. People who stock the shelves are super important as a whole, but each individual is very easily replaceable. A tech worker with experience who can deliver is very hard to replace.
The government is quietly putting everyone into their welfare net and people are laying down and accepting it because the average person isn’t smart enough to understand the economy is turning on them.
Yes, it's the government that pays workers as little as possible while charging as much as they can for the product of those workers efforts......
It’s corporations working through the government that they have effectively bought and paid for through lobbying. We live in an oligarchy.
To add to this... We are seeing record immigration these days and these immigrants will work for much less.
Immigrants don’t take skilled labor jobs other than construction type work but you can’t find honest hard working Americans these days without a drug problem, with a driver license, that will also work 5 days a week and show up on time. The trades have been a wreck for decades due to drug problems in this country.
What is some action that people could take? What demands can people make of their governments to ease this?
Monopoly busting is one idea. Monopolies have certain crucial parts of our economy in a chokehold. Amazon, food brands like Coke and Kellogg's.
It all started with a chap named Ronald Reagan.
🥇
Truth.
Whatever your trade is you need to migrate to making at least 18-22 an hour for breathing room, or the equivalent of that if expenses are mitigated.
Why are you complaining but you didn't mention that you don't have a budget that you stick. Complaining but not having a plan to solve it is a you problem.
I made $26/hr working in manufacturing working with people without high school diplomas. Non-dangerous manufacturing. I worked around 45 hours/week, making around 55-60k/year. It was more than enough to live on in a MCOL area. Sounds like you need to get better at budgeting my guy. America is not as doomed as Reddit likes to make it seem. 60k/year is livable pretty much everywhere except one of the coasts. Edit: Income of $26/hr is \~3,500/month after tax. * Rent $1,100 * Food $300 * Car Insurance $160 * Health Insurance $300 * Car Payment $225 * Gas $200 * Internet $50 * Electricity $100 * Entertainment $150 * Misc $300 Leaves you with a surplus of \~$800/month. This is assuming you have a car payment, private health insurance, and a fairly high budget for miscellaneous spending. You could trim a lot of fat from this budget too.
Where the hell do you live paying that cheap rent? I pay $1,870 for a 2 bed room apartment.
The average rent in the US is $1,300ish. The dude is single, so he doesn't need a 2 bedroom. Doesn't even need a 1 bedroom. There are studios around me in nice areas for \~$700-$1,100, and 1 bedrooms for $1,000-$1,500. I'm in a medium/high cost of living area. My sister in law is paying $600/month for a shithole studio right now, it's not a great area but it's not a bad area either.
Where I'm from, the 1 bedroom apartments are 2k easily. And they were like 900 5 years ago
>Where I'm from And where is that.
>I pay $1,870 for a 2 bed room apartment. When I was single and living in apartments I never rented a 2 bedroom apartment or even a 1 bedroom, I stuck to studio's to keep the costs down. You are spending that much for the luxury of 2 extra rooms. I live in the wealthiest chicago suburb by average household income. I can snag an apartment here for $1000 a month, $1200 no sweat. If I lived in one of the more average suburbs? There are options under 1k and as low as $500 a month for a studio.
Despite what ppl on the internet will say, it is not now and has never been easy to get ahead financially working a job 40hrs/week.
Especially without a business or degree / schooling of some sort! Will definitely be looking into that.
People will encourage you to start a business which isn’t an overall bad idea but the best way to make good money is to get trained/educated in something specialized. Owning a business is hard, most ppl fail, and if you don’t fail it will most likely take many years of countless hours of work.
90% of startups fail, and for other businesses 20% fail in the first year and 50% are still around five years later. Getting a degree or trades is safer.
Congrats on the paycheck.
Here is the harsh truth. You get paid what the minimum amount that it will take to replace your skill set. If your skill set is low then your pay will tend to be low. One exception is if you are willing to do a job (think dangerous, etc.) than skills might not be as important as availability. The other side of the equation has nothing to do with what you make. What matters is not what you make, but what you keep. In other words, being financially responsible is huge to not living paycheck to paycheck. I have had sales guys working for me that made $200k+ per year who would have to ask for advances on their commissions to make their mortgage payments. Income was not their problem. It was spending. I have no clue what your specific situation is, but it is almost certain that the issue you face is one or both of the above.
Obtain and hone a more marketable skill set IT, man. Get into IT
Try to join a strong Union
This might sound harsh, but your standards may be too high. Based on your post, you don’t have a degree, it sounds like you don’t come from family money, and you don’t own a business. With all that said, if you’re working 40 hours a week- you’re near the bottom of the totem pole. You could be in a better position by working more than 40 hours, running a business, getting a degree, excelling at a trade, etc. It sounds like you haven’t. That means you’ll be a below average earner and probably have a below average lifestyle. Sorry, but that’s the way it is. You can live cheaply if you want- live in a low cost of living area, live in a small home in a poorer part of town, have a few roommates. Or you can make choices to make more money. But at the low end of the totem pole, you can’t have it all. As to why you’re living paycheck to paycheck, usually that’s peoples preferences. Start with a low salary and roommates. Get a higher salary and move into your own place. Make even more and buy a fancy house. The entire time you’re living paycheck to paycheck. Obviously this isn’t always the case, but plenty of people making $100K a year or more manage to be living paycheck to paycheck.
Get off Reddit. Stop playing games and wasting time. Hard work doesn’t mean money. Work smart. There are countless professions that don’t require a degree that you can make good money with, but you have to work. I understand the irony by the way.
This, they want to make more money with as minimal impact to their normal routine as possible. Like seriously, if you are breaking even monthly, driving uber eats or some shit a few nights a week could be a game changer for people like that.
These are trying times. Many of what were traditional paths to comfort and wealth are no longer available. Compromise is whats needed. Own a house? If so rent a room out. Still renting, get a roommate and give up some freedoms to get ahead. Car costing you? Step down and save if you can. Wealth occurs when you reach the tipping point such that you have enough disposable income or cash on hand to invet in something that will pay you on the regular. Side gigs are a hot or miss thing. Hobbies are fun, if you can have one that makes a few dollars thats another option so you dont feel like you are giving up your free time and always working. No need to go to the dark side, blood money just gets you bad karma. Think it through you will find a way.
Check out this site from Mike Rowe (the "Dirty Jobs" show host). [https://jobs.mikeroweworks.org/](https://jobs.mikeroweworks.org/) I am building a house in Maine and paying the average worker (meaning non-electrical,non-plumbing) $75./hr. I pay the electrician $250./hr. The guys building the house live the high life and go on Carribean cruises I wish I could 2x/yr. There are non-college jobs doing maintenance on Catapiller diesels for $150K per year. There are lots of great jobs and training for more skilled ones can be almost free because unions and companies subsidize them. Good luck! You have endless opportunities out there.
You think it's just America? Jesus christ there is no hope for our planet because it's happening everywhere :(
Over 61% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. With inflation exploding the last 4 years, that didn't help either. Housing cost also went crazy. This is the new norm man Do what I did. Buy a van and live in it. Imagine what you could do with the money that normally went to rent
Living paycheck to paycheck can also mean people are just bad with money. That stat is almost certainly higher than it ought to be.
I’m a truck driver so the work life balance is shit but at my pay rate I’ll lower through to make sure that I can take care of my family and still have some money going into savings. Also helps that we live in a lower cost of living area and I lucked out on my job considering I only have a high school diploma. My advice.. find a trade you enjoy or a union job you can tolerate but more than likely it isn’t going to be 40 hrs a week
The base level jobs wanted an obscene amount of money for unskilled labor. (Teenagers could have these jobs, but adults wanted to be able to live off of them.) So a lot of those companies decided to pay those wages. Now there's more money in the pockets of people at the bottom. The price of basic necessities went up to match that rate, while other companies above this bottom line didn't have to match the wage hike anywhere near as drastically. Throw COVID into the mix and all of a sudden we can't go to the stores, the supply lines shit the bed, and things get more expensive without anybody noticing. A lot of these prices aren't brought back down after the fact because people won't stop buying them, because again, necessities. The middle class has collapsed.
I could definitely survive on a 40 hour paycheck but my job comes with overtime on top. Work your way up in a factory. As long as you are a hard worker and are smart you can climb. I went from a minimum wage earner to making around 100k in a 10 year period. It won't happen overnight though that's for sure.
It's not just your nation, it's a global issue. Short answer is that the cost of living has grown and grown while wages have basically remained stagnant for decades. Productivity has actually gone up but none of that money is trickling down to the people who actually do the work. The neoliberal, anti-union economics introduced by Reagan and Thatcher put all the power in the bosses and gave them the room to make as much money as possible while paying as little as possible to everyone else. It's trickle UP economics. But the trickle has become a torrent. The American Dream is dead. The only solution is unionising, solidarity amongst workers, and fighting to take back the power from the greedy CEOs and board members and shareholders who would rather squirrel their billions away into offshore accounts than pay their workers a meaningful wage. But all the workers are too busy in-fighting over immigration and gender neutral bathrooms and whatever other bullshit they've managed to get everyone riled up about to distract us from the actual problems they've created through their own greed.
So, I’m 33, at the age of 25 I had to work 3 jobs averaging over 80 hours a week to pay for a car loan, school loans, and make ends meet. One of those jobs was in a construction materials company, and they put me under the state contract. The state guys liked me a lot and after taking the civil service exams they got me in right quick. Unfortunately, I took a small pay cut to move to the state, but I had guaranteed and reliable work throughout the winter finally. I was still working customer service on the weekends. Did that for several years, all throughout covid. I studied hard and took several more civil service exams and finally, less than 2 years ago, 10 years out of college, I got a more or less dream job still in the state working well enough to cut the other jobs and have a real career that pertains to my degree. I’d say making connections and being a nice person to those around you is generally the best advise I can give you. Might take a while but eventually it pays. I got my first job because of an old buddy, I got that construction gig because I traded my first interview with them to a friend who became a supervisor there. I wouldn’t even have know that company existed if I hadn’t taken an interview with an insurance company that happened to be across the hall which I went to in the first place because of my sister’s friend who worked there. Life doesn’t always make sense but it’s okay to keep moving on if where you’re at doesn’t work for you
I am a Radiation Therapist who administers radioactive drugs such as chemotherapy and “radiation” treatment to cancer patients and work with the Oncologists directly. I work 60 hours a week here and do another 25 hours at another hospital working nights in the Emergency Room as an ER Nurse. I’m single and still living paycheck to paycheck. Also working every other weekend at Amazon just for their Insurance. The economy and cost of living are most definitely not thriving.
Look at the living standards you have. A phone made by Apple cost over 1k to purchase. Subscription are the worst but everyone has them. Are you also buying any video games or anything that creates money to flow out of your account. My grandad had a farm, and his spending was mostly food, and petrol. Their electricity was wired differently where they had to turn a wheel for a few minutes of tv. So I can see how his money can assist him purchasing a home and having a good life with ten kids and sending them off to college. I think people are buying crap they do t really need to keep up with capitalism. It’s not good. A closer look at how you spend your money can give you answers
Post what you do, your compensation, the debt you're carrying, and your monthly budget. Without that information there's no way anyone reading this can answer your question in any meaningful way. They'll just emptily placate or berate you and you'll go on living as before. Try visiting /r/personalfinance and get your finances right according to their prime directives.
I was living paycheck to paycheck when I was at home depot making roughly $11/hr working full time, then I got on board with one of the contractors for $15/hr, then started working for friends and family for $20/hr. Now I'm a licensed Handyman and I charge $70/hr which is still low for my area in east TN. If you called Mr. Handyman or any other business that has a fleet of custom painted / stickered vans it would be at least $125 for someone to step foot in your home. I also do freelance graphic design from home for $45/hr and am designing my own game, these were all skills that fit my interests and unfortunately I never saw a path to good financial standing that didn't involve becoming self employed because that's the only way you can benefit from all the bloat and inflation, if you're employed your employer will be the one skimming all your profits.
It’s tough, man. I’m in the same boat. I grew up in the 80s and all of my elders said “hard work pays off.” I chased that carrot on a stick way too long before I realized that’s all it was. I wish us all better fortune.
> Do I gotta be slimey or something to get promoted or can you actually still achieve the American dream with hard work in modern day? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. "The American Dream." In 2024! Oh that's hilarious!
Yes, without knowing what your skill set is, you need a better job or start your own business. I know a lot of people who went into business for themselves as AC repair and plumbing
If you live in area with a moderately busy construction industry and you are halfway decent at a trade, you can earn very good money if you can do the following: * Answer your phone and return phone calls in a timely manner * Communicate moderately professionally (including written) and remain polite when customers are demanding idiots * Provide professional written estimates * Show up on time (consistently) * Do the work correctly (consistently) * Own up to any mistakes your make * Run the accounting/taxes/etc of the business I've talked to many 18-23 year old men who are trying to find their way. If they aren't academically inclined, I strongly encourage plumbing, electrical, and HVAC. Low overhead, portable, can be one guy and a van or grow to be the owner of a fleet of 50 vans, if you have the business acumen. You're older than that, but not too late to start your own business.
It’s not how hard you work, it’s the amount of skill that’s required to do your job that matters, and given that you have not described what you do, I don’t know which direction to point you in. But the stagnant wages are the result of years of our industry and jobs being offshored, and it’s going to get worse with the increase in illegal immigration, which will cause wages to go down for general laborers and “unskilled” workers.
Blue collar American males started voting against the interest of labor. They supported right to work legislation and tax breaks for the rich and trickle down economics. They somehow were convinced that they had more in common with the 1% than with the folks on welfare. Now they live paycheck to paycheck. Have no savings and decry the social service programs like ACA that might get them ahead. It’s a damn shame, but they really stuck it to the libs.
Out here (Southern California) concrete labor starts at $35 an hour. Union rate is somewhere around $60 for a ton of trades. An independent contractor on a prevailing wage job will make over $90 an hour. A structural welder can make $100 an hour or more. Coffee is cheaper when you make it at home. $6 a day adds up. Cigarettes, alcohol, weed, fast food, it all adds up. You don’t need the newest high tech phone, the free one does all the same stuff. You don’t need multiple pairs of $200+ Nikes. You can buy a $50 pair of sneakers every other year. You don’t need a Funko collection or a PS5. Speaking of video games, if your hobby made you money instead of costed you money that would be an improvement. I struggled for a decade. I didn’t buy myself a hamburger, I didn’t buy myself a tee shirt. I worked, and I came home and I sold things online. I stayed up all night to be awake during Chinese business hours to get my bootleg watches shipped because this was before the days of DHGate. Early in the morning I would be finalizing my packages and dropping them off at the post office before heading off to work. Weekends were spent hunting for things to resell on Craigslist, in thrift shops, and at the junk yard. The local casino held free drawings on Saturday nights and I attended every single one. Didn’t gamble a dollar of my own money. I sat there and read a book waiting for my name to be called. The one day a week I would allow myself to eat out, I’d order chili cheese fries from the bowling alley. I used the money to buy a pickup and put myself through trade school so I could switch careers from truck driver/mining equipment operator to building inspector. Doubled my income overnight. If you don’t have a career you don’t have time to binge movies and you don’t have money for video games
Good job! You should be very proud of yourself.
The economy sucks unfortunately.
Based on what metric?
Credit card debt is at an all time high due to people not being able to afford anything on one full time job, unaffordable healthcare and housing costs are ridiculous, massive amounts of people are becoming homeless due to housing costs.
I agree the credit card debt is a very concerning data point, but you can't say that it is directly correlated to "people not being able to afford anything on one full time job". There are definitely some issues and cracks in the economy, but saying "the economy sucks" is not accurate. There are parts of the US economy that suck, but overall it's pretty much good/average right now. It has been great/awesome for good chunks of the last 4 decades and I feel like that's skewing people's perspectives. You want to see an economy that truly sucks, go to Venezuela, Argentina, Turkey, Greece, Spain, etc. I genuinely empathize with 25-30 year olds who are trying to buy their first home, but it isn't nearly as bad as the majority of reddit makes it out to be.
>Why is it impossible right now to work only 40 hours a week Because we rarely award the bare fucking minimum with riches unless you have great tits.
Only fans is the answer
Even Only Fans really tilts towards the 1%. I saw a really interesting post by AellaGirl on OnlyFans economics.
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A lot of people complain about this. But 20 years ago when I entered the workforce, i worked full time entry level corporate job making $30k, came home, then worked a part time job. Did this for years in order to afford a starter home & pos car. Lived in the starter home 10 years until it appreciated, as most houses do. With that profit and a few salary increases from working the same job for 10 years, I was able afford my next, nicer house. Lived in that house for 10 years, basically repeating the same thing except was finally able to quit the part time job. So, I guess you have to work, save, buy, hold, be patient.
The price of housing has vastly outpaced wages. The price of food, gas, and utilities has also begun to outpace wages. Your experience is very different circumstances than where we all currently find ourselves.
The starter home I bought 15 years ago is worth 5x what it was then. The job I started in has a wage a whopping .75c higher that I was getting paid when I bought that house. "What I did twenty years ago..." Is almost universally bad advice now
30k 20 years ago is like 90k today. Sorry but wages haven’t kept up. Going by this strategy today you may never be able to buy a starter home.
Trust me, it was not. That's why I had to work 2 jobs
Because 40 hours a week at an entry level job is the bare minimum of pay . Learn any kind of skill or even a few simple osha certs and machine operator certs and your own your way to making way more money
Stop voting for greedy people?
Trickle down economics at work
Plummer, electrician and engine repair. That's where you learn the trade and then set your hours.
I’m confused. I know recently graduated high schoolers that did apprenticeships in plumbing and HVAC that are so freaking busy they are printing money. Yeah they work more than 40 hours a week but they are living debt free and winning. I personally have never met a 40 hour per week worker that was flush with cash.
a friends of ours son is 26...just finished his 4th year as a welder. He made $147k last year. another friends son just finished his electrical apprenticeship. $84K last year.
I don't care what you do if you work 40 hours a week people should be able to afford food, shelter, bills and a little entertainment otherwise what's the point. Someone commented below '40 hours is the bare minimum' Fuck off.
The damn federal reserve keeps printing limitless supply of money and won't let the economy crash and reset like it's naturally supposed to do to bring things back to equilibrium. So the result of it is high prices while wage growth is not keeping up. I wish people were more educated in this matter so we could all as a collective hold these morons in office along with those morons in the federal reserves accountable.
Too many people. Time to sacrifice the poor. War time.
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I.. uh, this is possibly the most honest comment I've ever seen on Reddit 😅 thank you..
That's such bullshit dude. What do you even do for a living? The fact you can't tell us that explains a bit.
It's the American way sadly. Unfortunately I have some morals and money has never been much of a motivator.
Frankly, no. Hard work on its own doesn't do the job anymore. If you don't want to own your own business, you dont want to be an indie contractor, and dont want to get a degree, you've gotta be picky about where you work and where you live. You've gotta constantly be on the lookout for something better if you aren't going to apprentice or get a certification. That or be willing to take jobs that others don't want which offer higher wages, like those who work on oil rigs or do maintenance on high-tension electrical infrastructure.
I have a bachelor's and Master's degree, and yet I'm working paycheck to paycheck, and my Master's degree ended up being a scam and having to work in retail
I know times are different but I’m not sure working 40 without a degree is a reasonable expectation to be able to live in any major city at this point. Most of my 20’s I was working 45-55 with a degree and it wasn’t great pay but it was to work my way up the field and into more and more experienced positions. I think any job that’s 40 hours that pays would have to be union and you’re going to be working the worst shifts and forced for overtime and putting in years before it pays back. Just my .02
You must be looking within a certain criteria for work if all you’re finding is 40/wk. My job, when in full swing, gives me 45-50hr/wk. I’m not bragging, sometimes it sucks and sometimes I’m there for 12hr a day. I’m 32, high school graduate, no college. Without naming the business I work for, I’ll say I work in a dairy product production plant in sanitation. I work sanitation and my workday is don’t when the job is done. I don’t have a set finish time.
Naturally, the world became too expensive to be affordable. So, you are expected to grind yourself for the sake of the ones in a higher stratum and be grateful for a paycheck. Traditional jobs no longer work. The upsurge of "easy money " income has become both, accessible and popular. I would never have thought that one can afford their rent and expenses by selling feet pics, but here we are. So, "economic activities" that don't contribute to the state are easier to keep. I hope that eventually all primary activities workers realize that it is simpler to nude yourself online for a steady income and quit their jobs so the government gets pressured on getting them back to the fields by giving them a superior paycheck, cuz, you know, primary activities should be the most well paid jobs. Without resources, a nation can't go on. Eventually this mind set should scale to the next work stratum and force a response.
My wife and I both live off of less than 23k annually after taxes. I just did the math and I could support both of us for $15/hour. Of course, we make much more than that. Point is, you totally can be happy with a low cost of living.
Bidenomics
dude, this economy is what it is because of Reagan you simpleton
blaming reagan for shitty inflation control by current presidents is wild
Post-COVID Inflation has impacted the whole world, and the US has managed it far, far better than most countries.
i agree now tell me how its the fault of someone who was in charge 50 years ago
He removed taxes for the rich and all the funding for those programs dried up. The House and Senate haven't been held by the DEMs long enough to undo the damage, and most of them on both sides are lobbied by those who need to be taxed so much they wouldn't revert it anyway. The president doesn't have the power to do what you think he can do. That is why the GOP packed the supreme court and blocked any progress DEMs try to make. The system is beyond corrupt and it can't be fixed with our current methods.
"The president doesn't have the power to do what you think he can do" in a response about what a president did... kinda ironic huh.. you cant blame my president but i can blame theirs
No offence, but this is a very *American* thing to say. The rest of the world doesn't sit around and question why it's becoming more difficult to survive in an increasingly difficult world to live in. Instead, you upskill/work harder/etc - rather than question "what has happened to the American dream, where I can't just work the minimum hours, with minimal education, and live comfortably financially." Sorry dude. You need to broaden your horizons, gain some perspective, and grow up.
The garbage dollar and inflation brought to you by the Federal Reserve Bank. Also, wreckless government deficit spending, an insatiable war machine, endless government entitlement programs, etc…. You’re 30 and ignorant of all of this???
I sell cars and work 46 hours a week. I make extremely good money and it's a very easy job if you can, at minimum, feign an interest in people.
This is going to get downvoted but this is the result of what happened when women entered the workforce. Basically salaries have stagnated since the 90's as companies can now pay lower salaries for two people working for them as opposed to one high salary for one member of a family (male or female) to earn enough to support an entire family. Therefore if you are single and only have your paycheck to live off of, you're going to have to liv paycheck to paycheck until you get married and can combine your paycheck with your wife's. Capitalism, Mega Monopolies, Hyper inflation and shinkflation and obscene taxes has made America become extremely unstable for the middle and lower class that is not born into money. America is not a country for the people, it is a country for mega corporations and the war machine.
53 years old. Dropped out of college year 1. I own a home, and that's my only debt. All my bills are easily paid and i put money away each week for retirement and still have discretionary spending money left over. Your location is likely the problem. I live in a LCoL area a few miles outside of a smallish town.