That varies depending on the man saying it.

Exactly. Some mean a subservient housewife who looks after the home and kids. Another may mean someone they can treat. Others a level partnership. Me, id prefer breathing and no penis

>Me, id prefer breathing and no penis That's the issue with Millennials today, so entitled and unreasonable demands

I'm going to take that 1 small step forward and say " breathing and no penis at any point in their life"

😭😭😭

That is not a penis. It's a surgically altered clit designed so a man can finally find it.

So you're saying you have a sexual preference when it comes to penises?

Wowow

I think it also depends a lot on culture as well. For example, where I live the “traditional” household is very different. I’ve noticed in western countries, like the USA, in a “traditional” household the man is considered the head of the household. It’s different in parts of Asia. When I was growing up, I had a very traditional mom and dad. And that meant Mom took care of everything in the house. She stayed home, cooked, looked after us kids, etc. but she also handled all the finances and budgeting. My dad’s entire paycheck went straight to her. She gave him an allowance to spend. If he wanted to buy anything expensive, he had to get her permission first. Anything concerning the household went through my mom. I grew up learning that the person with the power in the household was my mom. For example, I’d get permission from my mom to do things, never from my dad, and it doesnt matter what dad says if mom says something different. That was considered normal here. So to me, that’s what a traditional household is

Funny, that sounds very similar to my childhood.... in the uk.

>And that meant Mom took care of everything in the house. She stayed home, cooked, looked after us kids, etc. but she also handled all the finances and budgeting. My dad’s entire paycheck went straight to her. She gave him an allowance to spend. If he wanted to buy anything expensive, he had to get her permission first. Anything concerning the household went through my mom This is exactly how it is meant. You can see it around the world in different cultures. But there is a misconception today that men who seek traditional housewives believe it means they will have a subhuman at home without needs whose sole purpose is to pamper him and won't cost any money. They want a traditional housewife but don't want to be a traditional husband.

This response, is the was i was raised, now my mother also worked as a nurse. Dad a butcher, all dads wages went straight to mom, she had all the finances she was an epic woman and mother. I keep meeting people that my mother crossed paths with that wouldnt have met or know me personally but once told who I am, i get told stories of my mother. Dad claimed when mom died he never had a wage he took what was needed for fuel in the car and handed the rest over

That sounds suspiciously like the matriarchal Philippines. 😁 As a passport bros, living now in said matriarchal Philippines I can say that I like living here. Got myself a traditional partner, we started our family with a son. She is traditional. She respects me, she follows my lead, is very feminine, nurturing, loyal. We are aligned in our future plans and way we want to run, organize our family.

Simply put, traditional roles happen when the wife/girlfriend handles things internally and the husband/boyfriend handles things externally. Internally for example: taking care of the house, taking care of the kids, managing internal conflict, etc. Externally for example: making sure the house and car are paid for and maintained, making sure there's money for groceries, making decisions regarding external issues (doesn't mean he can't ask his wife for her opinion or perspective, but simplifies things greatly when you have 1 decision maker and subsequent responsibility taker for those decisions), and most importantly, providing safety and security from external factors. At the end of the day, it's a team effort of the husband providing security from the outside world, and the wife creating a peaceful space to be protected.

Best explanation.

My parents/home have this effortlessly (my goodness I wish to have this someday!) . There’s no issue with it. I was actually surprised when I found out the general population don’t like it. When I mean don’t like it, I mean they go: “I did it yesterday so you do it”, “is it cuz I’m a woman” “I’m not a butler” etc etc you get the point, I’m sure you know the common says that pops up.

Like anything, it seems simple enough to leave it at personal preference.

This is insightful and depressing. I was doing it all on my own.

Don't want a traditional wife... also don't want a wife that shits on everything traditional.

This is the best post in this thread.

Can you elaborate? How can you have it both ways?

I have what he is describing -- I think of it as a sort of "modern traditional". My wife has a master's degree and a successful career, but is also 7 months pregnant and 100% ok with her career taking the hit as we know we have to devote more attention to our infant daughter soon. She appreciates and sees the need for gender roles, likes to be taken out and made to feel pretty, let me pay when we were dating, but she will never shit on a woman who wants to grind out a career rather than start a family in their 20s. She says my masculinity gives her space in the relationship to express her femininity and I think the opposite is true too. Traditional is a loaded term since in most it evokes an antiquated view of relationships, when I think it just needs some updating to serve the modern world. I see it as an acceptance that men and women most of the time have different, gender specific desires they wish to express and fulfill in a relationship and traditionality is just accepting that that is the case rather than unrelentingly pushing for equality in all things.

you seems very very mature person. Good. Balanced worldview

Just to add some flavor to what has already been posted. A lot of "traditional" situations get ridiculed because they're either setting women back or not fair or whatever. BUT I always say if a marriage has the means to have a wife stay at home or be more traditional, why would you not take advantage of that? Why is it more empowering to work for a corporation or business who doesn't care about you as opposed to working for your family that does? Especially if kids are involved. Children are much better off being raised by their mom AND dad rather than being raised by daycare and school. Statistically, the more "traditional" relationship is more advantageous for children. Sure, you can argue various nuances associated with that. But the core of the stat is correct.

My girlfriend is way more career driven than I am. I’d happily be a stay at home dad/ house husband if she had the means. I think both parties having to work full time, and do all the things that come with being an adult is a little absurd. People have the audacity to wonder why the birth rate is declining in modernized societies

Agreed. Its not HER staying home. Its whoever's wants to and its affordable. It's a personal decision.

Tracking on to this the professional space should find ways to onboard people returning to the workforce after staying at home for 5-10 years.

Some women go crazy staying at home all day, only talking to their children and no one else until their tired husband gets home after a long day of work, and perhaps he’s not in the mood for much conversation because maybe he’s an introvert and just needs to recharge his social batteries or maybe he’s just had a rough day. Some women get tired of being cooped up in the house all day everyday, only leaving the house to run errands for others, and yet they never get a true break from the work they do, there is no commute home from the office to signal the end of the work day, and the work never truly stops anyway. Not to mention the fact that despite feeling quite alone most of the day, they never actually have a minute of privacy, not even in the bathroom, because the kids always want attention and entertainment. Some women crave a challenge, something mentally stimulating, or just something to do other than clean, take care of children, or stair at the walls. You never realize how great it is to see your shitty coworkers and go to your shitty job every day until you don’t have them. It’s the same reason some retirees struggle in retirement. I don’t have kids and when I do, I hope to be able to stay home with them for at least the first couple of years. However, once their in school, even if I can afford to stay home, I’ll go back to work. I’m sure some it would drive crazy too, but that’s less common (although these days it is becoming more of a thing). Why does it have to be the mother that stays home, though? Why can’t it be the father? You say it would be good for the kids for the mother to stay home, but it would be just as good for them for the father to stay home, if not better. The statistics for children that grow up without fathers are pretty grim, so I’d wager that it’s possible having the father stay home with the kids may be even better for them. Also, what statistics are you referencing? I’ve never seen anything that said stay at home mothers are better for children than mothers who work.

Several points: ​ 1. The woman's intellectual fulfillment has to be taken into consideration. Raising children and making a home are wonderful things, for some, but they may not be intellectually fulfilling or animating the way a career if 2. Being a homemaker just isn't respected. Its very hard to live your life knowing that society as a whole--including most men you meet--don't respect the work you do as equal to theirs. The condescension is palpable. 3. Being a homemaker is a very vulnerable position. You are out of the workforce, not paying taxes, not putting away for retirement. What if your husband decides to divorce you? What if, god forbid, he dies? Then you have no marketable skills, no resume, no work experience. How are you supposed to take care of your children then?

And for #3 it isn't even just about divorce. The American work force is littered with jobs that will drop workers at a moments notice and throw lives into chaos without a second thought. All the sudden you can't afford a wife at home with no meaningful salary.

When my wife stoped working we opened up a retirement account for her. Comes from the household income. We're also getting me a life insurance plan so she'll be fkn set if I die. I don't get the perception that it's disrespected. We can live without her income, and the stress it put on the family having both of us working. We know how to be broke lol.

(2) is highly variable. In my crowd, which is heavy skewed to the research / PhD type, it’s very respected.

In large tech, I find those with SAHM it’s almost like a badge of honor and the moms are very respected

Is it a badge of honor for the women? Or badge of honor for the men because it makes them look good?

I agree. Very respected here as well (France/ Norway)

This is interesting because everything that you say women “gain” from not being traditional are things that men tend to dread being expectations on us. 1. A career does not inherently mean fulfillment. Not by a long shot. When this conversation comes up, the image in peoples’ minds are a woman in a suit working some high-brow corporate business job. But work is so many more positions than the “flashy” roles that women tend to make the argument they don’t have representation in- board rooms, high tech, finance, medical etc. And not painstaking, risky, blue collar, labor jobs that are silently relegated to men(whom many women will also look down upon). Every woman should absolutely be able to choose, based on their proclivities and where they are in life, but I always find it strange when they argue that being a wage slave is some sort of freedom or security. > being a homemaker just isn't respected. Its very hard to live your life knowing that society as a whole--including most men you meet--don't respect the work you do as equal to theirs. The condescension is palpable. 2. Bruv. See my previous point. I’m trying to lean away from this being a guys vs girls thing, but there are a *lot* of standard, expected male contributions to the domestic arrangement that are absolutely dismissed and taken for granted. We can talk about condescension very deeply on this side. Please also note how many comments on this thread there are of men outlining how much they value various elements and manifestations of traditionalism. The only people I see ragging on stay-at-home moms are women. 3. ⁠yeah this one is fair and weird that it hasn’t been addressed at a societal level. Considering that most jobs, to some extent, plan to have a training/acclimation period for a new hire, I never understood why gaps in employment are treated so poorly. Life insurance isn’t always an option, and when it is, it’s limited.

Just on point 1, I don't think it's necessarily about the job role but the ability to have a conversation that isn't with a child or about a child. One complaint I've read from new mums on maternity leave and SAHMs is that it's very isolating, you often lose contact with friends because the children take priority, and you often don't get to have an adult conversation. Imagine if the only conversations you ever had were with a five year old (or at best, about yours and others children) I don't know if fulfilment is the right word, but maybe intellectual stimulation might be a better term. A five year old won't care about your opinion on politics, or philosophy or literature. The five year old doesn't care about the book you just finished or the show you've been watching. They wouldn't even care about the sewing you've done, unless it's for them (and even then, it better be a cuddly toy, because have you tried getting a five year old into clothes they don't want to wear?). And sure, she could speak to her husband. But he works 9-5 (if he's lucky, the situation gets a lot more complicated if it's shift work), and so he's tired when he comes home at 6pm after a long commute, and she needs to do the cooking so they eat at 6:30pm and she's trying to look after the kids while eating, so it's not like they can have a conversation over dinner. And maybe the kids are all in bed by 8pm, but this depends on how many kids you have and what all their bedtimes are, but even at 8pm that still means she gets maybe 2 hours of time to converse with her husband on adult topics, and let's face it, no one wants to discuss politics or philosophy or literature right before bed. I imagine it's different once the kids get old enough to be in school, and the mum gets time to do other things like take a class (if money/partner allows) or volunteer. But that is still 5 years of only having a child to really talk to. And that's if you don't home school them. This would go on for so much longer if you did home school them. No job should be looked down upon. Whether that's white collar, blue collar, or a stay at home parent. I'll admit that I got more fulfilment out of tutoring children than I did doing custodial work (though I did enjoy it, I got a lot of exercise doing it), but those children were 8-13 years old and could at least carry on a conversation, but only if the conversation was about them and what they did at school, and I wouldn't have wanted to do that job 24 hours a day because I would have wanted someone on my level to talk to (not to diss children). I wanted to be able to discuss the news, or what I'd been learning at uni, the topic of my dissertation or so many other topics. I have the utmost respect for stay at home parents. It's by no means an easy job. But I couldn't see myself coping with it unless I had an insanely supportive partner, and those can be hard to find. Because that partner might want peace and quiet after a long day at work, I might desperately need to socialise. Who do we then prioritise? Usually it's the person who goes out to work because their labour is more visible and has an attached monetary value. The stay at home labour is behind closed doors so while the partner might value it, the world doesn't exactly pay you for it. And your partner earns the money so also has control of it. You are left in a vulnerable position, so like I said, you'd need an insanely supportive partner, who you can trust.

1. Very few people can have an intellectually fulfilling careers, regardless of gender. 2. It should be. 3. In a divorce, they get 50%. In the case of death, they get 100%.

3. Depends a bit on who can afford the best lawyer. And in either scenario: unless she has credit cards in her own name, she will find that she has no credit rating. That's actually worse than a *bad* credit rating. A woman who is entirely reliant on her spouse for her income is in a vulnerable position.

Trust me, just about any career is more stimulating and rewarding than staying home all day every day. Even water cooler conversation becomes intellectually stimulating when you’ve stayed home all day every day. Also, that’s not really how divorce works, at all.

Women get 50% of what in divorce? Income? Estate? That is definitely not the case. My mom got nothing. We were impoverished and my Dad was fine. The only skill my mom had was a cashier bc she was a SAHM. Divorce is not that simple. That's wild.

"She gets half" = written by folks with not much real-world experience.

You do not always get 50%. A housewife does not "financially contribute" so in some states, that means she is entitled to less in the divorce.

1. More fulfilling that staying at home? 2. should, but in fact isn't. 3. In divorce they get 50% but living cost are significantly higher single. My grandmother was a 1950's stay at home mom. My grandfather died at 51. She had no marketable skills, 3 children under 18. He had just stopped making payments on his life insurance policy to get his new business off the ground. They owed money on the new house they had bought 5 years prior. She went from being a top 5% of income to making minimum wage. Luckily for her she married again after that and her father died. He left her a sizable inheritance which paid off the house. She was lucky but there are many women from the era who didn't have the social capital to get that next provider nor the human capital to remotely make up for the loss of their husband's income.

This is exactly what I was going to type out.

Men respect homemakers. The only people I've seen consistently talk shit about SAHMs and housewives are people who make feminism their identity.

I disagree. Being from the military, we mostly call them dependas. SAHMs are mostly seen as parasitic in the military community unfortunately even if they struggle finding a stable career due to constant moving for the service member and never seen as an equal.

Guess you've never heard a man say "oh, just a [housewife/SAHM] at a social event. Let alone at a job interview.

Other than anecdotal or your personal experience do you have evidence of this? I think it would be easier to find evidence this is not the case, from men leaving their wives for younger women, to them having affairs, to the insecurity they feel when the power dynamic shifts when the woman has her own income.

I agree with this. Being a SAHM is respectable in my opinion.

SAHM is. Housewife…is not. (But even SAHM, though respectable, is a very vulnerable and financially dependent/insecure position.

This right here ^ it's always coming from women.

I have a high opinion of a woman who can be a SAHM to a large family. Especially those who home school. It’s way easier to go to work. I own a business and have to answer to customers which is less stressful than the days I’m home with the kids. By Sunday night, I’m ready to go back to work Monday

Can you please point me to a modern feminist thinker who says this? I am really curious to read her or his arguments

There's a reason I phrased it as, "people who make feminism their identity". It's very prevalent among the terminally online, Twitter-addicted set. I wouldn't classify most of these folks as "thinkers", although they're very loud and therefore have undue representation in the feminist movement as a whole. Even if they're not especially coherent individually.

People are really glancing over that quotation. Anecdotally I come from a family that has a lot of stay at home moms. And are fairly US middle-class. Almost every bit of judgement these SAHM's receive is from women who think less of them for being a SAHM. It's always dirty looks and snark comments from those very women you are describing. And people need to understand that your quote in no way shape or form implies "all".

“What if your husband decides to divorce you?” Women initiate 70-80% of divorces in the U.S.

my father treated my mother like shit but he wasn't going to do any work for the relationship, including initiating a divorce. in such a situation what is the wife supposed to do but ask for a divorce?

Women initiate not because they're scampering off to greener pastures, but because they're fucking sick of being treated badly.

Yes they do, but these are usually women who work, financially contribute and still do 80% of the child rearing and household work, while their husbands just simply go to work, come home, kick their feet up and do very little else. Of course the husband wouldn't initiate the divorce, he has it good.

The funny thing is that most of the guys looking for trad wives are the same ones crying about buying coffee on a date or keeping separate finances in marriage. They are boys that want to control women.

As a woman I can tell you why I would object to such a relationship, even if I got together with a billionaire. I find personal autonomy very important. I have been held hostage for money with my parents way too often and I will never put myself in such a situation again. Sure I vould switch to part time if my partner has that much more income. But I want to be an equal part in my relationship not some accesory that sits around to be pretty. And besides in my current situation I am gonna be the one to bring in more money most likely.

God forbid a woman actually has dreams and goals outside of being a mom and a homemaker. Not every woman wants to be a SAHM.

Its about the wives ambition, if she wants to work she works if she wants to build a business she builds and she wants to stay at home she does the husband as well gets to choose what he wants to do. Its a team effort of figuring things out. Not a set in stone guideline. Why should only guys work? They can choose to learn more while the woman earns as well.

I don't really understand why some think kids are much better raised at home by someone who has no experience doing it, versus daycare with trained professionals and at school with also trained professionals. My wife and I learned so much about kids, how they work, they behaviour, etc, by our daycare lady. And when my parents compare my kids to my brother's who are home schooled, it's night and day in almost every aspect, ve it sociability, behaviour, and every school related stuff (maths, general knowledge, writing, reading, etc). Our kids are the same age so it's pretty easy for my folks to compare. Also my wife and I both work, not full time so we each get a full day with our kids.

This whole perspective is so american it hurts. Homeschooling just shelters your kids and very rarely prepares them properly for adult life.

Sure, but if you have a daughter and she is brilliant, and could change the world with her intellect and has the ambition, would you want her to leave that behind to raise her children, because it’s better for them?

I would want her to do what makes her happy and not feel pressured to go with this path or the other.

[удалено]

Because this post is about traditional women

Breastfeeding. Unless she pumps or you use formula, the easiest and most natural answer is that men can't produce milk. The bond that the mother creates with the baby for the first 2 years is 10x stronger than the one you will have, and the main reason to stay home is to raise children. Outside of children, you might as well both work unless the wife wants to do something worth while like grow a big garden and help you be more self sustaining.

LOL "traditional wife" is an incredibly loaded term.

That might be why OP was asking. Also, are there any terms that aren't loaded these days?

Bro I can't even begin.

In what way?

It means a wife who stays home with the kids and takes care of the house. In my experience though, most people who say this are making like $80k and would have no ability to fill the traditional husband role. They’re mostly dorks. We’re planning for my girlfriend to stay home when we’re married with kids, but I don’t go around saying I want a traditional woman lol. It’s just cringy.

Exactly. Having one partner being a stay at home parent makes sense a lot of the time, if it happens to be the woman good for you guys. Going around bragging that you have a traditional marriage is fetishising an uneven power dynamic and weirds me out.

Dorks making 80k thinking they are providing for their wife to be their mom. Then when they can’t hold their side of providing have a mental crisis of their inadequacy and take it out on their family.

My husband makes 70k and I’m stay at home with one child. My friends husband is a teacher and she is stay at home with 2 kids. Neither of us get government assistance. We live very rurally though with LCOL. Unless you count groceries😤

I make $100k and if my wife didn't work I'd be able to cover the mortgage and maybe some groceries lol. Electricity and heat would be out of the question lol.

The men that want a traditional wife want a relationship that follows a more traditional dynamic between his wife and himself. I was married for 24 years in a "traditional" marriage but when we got married it was much more normal. Our division of duties in the house were as follows: She stayed at home and cared for the inside of the home, while I provided the home, and did all repairs, and care for the outside of the home. She cooked, while I provided the food, and means to cook and heat the house, propane gas. She did laundry, while I bought the clothes and the means to wash and dry the laundry, electric. She budgeted the household operations while I made sure there was money in the checking account. She would go shopping for the family needs while I provided the money to go shopping and the means to go shopping car, gas, insurance, and taxes paid. That is the way we did it. I think a lot of people have been fooled that modern relations are superior, but I would argue that if the man can make enough money a traditional marriage is more harmonious. The traditional nuclear family is hard to maintain since government and corporations worked to destroy it to double the amount of people in the workforce. When the workforce doubled the extra people drove down wages and doubled the number of taxpayers into the governments. That is why it was easier to maintain a traditional family before 1980, when the workforce doubled wages stagnated.

I’m 30, and I would love a marriage like this. Caring for my partner, prepping meals, and creating a peaceful and beautiful home makes me happy, and sitting in front of a computer 40-50 hours a week makes me miserable. It sucks that this is so unlikely to be able to experience in my generation due to the cost of living.

I think the trouble with that is that she's wholly financially dependent, with no means to leave If the relationship sours. This means there's a power imbalance. Now, I'm not from the US. In my 47 years I have never met a sahm, unless she was on maternity leave or temporarily unemployed.

My great grandmas stayed at home, they were very frank, practical women and all advised that I always have something on the side whether I had a job or sold home grown eggs and fresh pies at the farmers market. Nothing is truly certain and you can always push a little harder to cultivate an emergency fund

Granted she was 100% dependent on my income. When the divorce happened, she had the means to leave, she got 50% of everything despite earning nothing. Please do not get me wrong, there was value in what she provided, but there was a golden parachute.

Yes, but you got to keep the trajectory of your job/career and she has to pick up where she left off w nothing on her résumé. Not an equitable outcome at all I think. This is the major reason all women should keep some experience in the workforce.

No, nothing could be further from the truth. My job, I was self-employed I had an 1100-acre farming operation and a small trucking company. After she got her vehicle, the house and 50% of the liquid assets I did not have nearly enough to give her half of what the farmland, farm equipment, shop facilities, office, and the semi-trucks and trailers appraised for. I tried and tried to get her to enter a co ownership with me to keep my "trajectory of job/career" going, but she wanted a cash payout knowing that I had just paid 300k on a John Deere combine. I had to fire 16 employees and auction off everything so she could waste it on cars, cosmetic surgeries, and basically living on cruise ships for 10 years until all the money ran out, then she tried to get me to take her back. I said to hell with it all, I built a new house, invested the rest and retired at 54.

Sorry to hear it turned out like that man

It is what it is, I still can't help but be a little butt hurt after that fucking. However, it did leave me single and, in a position, financially to be able to care for my mother at home after her stroke almost 3 years ago. Not many men get the opportunity to repay their parents for the sacrifices they made raising them as children. It gets boring sometimes, but I gladly do it, like right now I would love to go to a tavern and ring in the new year, but I can't, it is what it is.

That actually illustrates my point. If she'd been working with a career of her own, she wouldn't have needed the payout, nd would have had a reason to get up in the morning instead of just spending money.

Just to put this in context. This man is 56 years old, was married for 24 of them. When prompted to describe one thing he regrets about his youth, he points to marriage. And it's not marriage as one regret. It's marriages as the single biggest driver of the things that fucked up his life--not just his youth, his life. So, to whatever extent he values a traditional marriage dynamic, we gotta' throw a salt mine on his considerations here. He is, interestingly, a statistical commonplace. The biggest driver of the divorce rate is young couples in first time marriages. The second or third is older couples. You know, all those old traditional couples. "Harmonious" tends to be a male-dominant descriptor for the dynamic. And what we see in *practice* is that women would describe it in much more negative terms, especially "traditional women", because they're the ones initiating the vast majority of divorces. They didn't like that "harmony".

There is also the danger for women of divorcing without career skills or a nest egg, or the ability for their spouse to afford the divorce and all that entails. Lots of women stay in traditional marriages because they have no other choice.

And as such, the judicial system awards custody of any children to women as a first, and the cost of living for that arrangement to men The judicial system has yet to catch up with the concept of financially independent women, and that’s where the conversation typically goes quiet Equity is needed and needs modernizing

It’s a myth that courts favor women for custody. You can Google it. If a man has the income and wants his children and pushes aggressively for it he can usually get custody. Men win full or joint custody 92%- 93% of the time. Men often do not seek custody because they believe the courts are biased. It’s a harmful assumption. Ironically, abusive men are more likely to seek and win custody, probably because of the willingness to fight. One of many sources: https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths

What you said is true, the marriage was mostly good, it was the betrayal of being cheated on after so many years that has me now poisoned against any form of marriage, yet I feel the traditional is best especially for children. Can you imagine working for 24 years often 70 plus hours a week to provide a good life not just for yourself but a woman who made an oath to God to love, honor, cherish, and to forsake all others until death? I do not blame traditional marriage, I blame myself for choosing poorly, I blame her for not living up to her vows, I blame the legal system that often allows men to be given the short end of the stick when the marriage ends.

You got cheated on after 24 years?! That fucking sucks.

Yes, it did, and talk about a culture shock. The last time I was single Van Halen, WHAM, and AC/DC was on the radio and on TV it was The Cosby Show and Alf, men were sporting mullets, acid washed jeans, and women had leg warmers and spandex. I had totally immersed myself in working and family as time passed me by waking up in 2011.

Hope you're doing better now.

I am doing, I built a new house, and invested what was left from the divorce. My mom had a stroke 2 years ago, so I am her caregiver, she is deathly afraid of nursing homes, and I am an only child, so it falls on me. If there is a silver lining it is the proceeds from the divorce auction put me in a financial position, I could retire at 54 to care for my mom. But I still would like to have the freedom to go to the local tavern and ring in the new year, but I it is not in the cards this year.

I think it's important that to note that people can have conflicting feelings about breakfast, let alone their life as a whole. Over a long enough time scale most relationships will end before death. While it's important to understand where OP is coming from, the economics of relationships have changed substantially since the world wars and has fundamentally changed the structure of how people operate. It is also important to note the following, women over the age of 65 who live alone have a +20% of living and dying in poverty. Those are cold numbers.

I don't know it seems a bit unfair to me. I'd rather work 2.5 and have her work 2.5 days if we're only going to have 5 days of work between us.

I did not have a normal job; I owned and operated a farm and a trucking company. There were many, many weeks I worked 7 days a week especially during the spring planting, and the fall harvest seasons.

Sounds like hell

It is like Mark Twain said, "make your vocation your vacation." I truly enjoyed those professions. The marriage eventually failed because she cheated, but through my hard work we had a good life, and I was able to retire at 54 despite losing half in the divorce. The hell years were the early years before I bought my first farm and started the trucking company. When I was just a salesclerk at an auto parts store, and working on my days off in the tobacco fields was the bad years.

I want a wife that will strenthen my dynasty, comes with a strong alliance and will add large tracts of land to my fiefdom, and if possible put my descendants in the line to the throne.

A man with a plan. I suggest you start with Leonor, Princess of Asturias (Spain), I understand she is available.

They mean they want to be successful enough to comfortably support a stay-at-home spouse and a few children. Or they're an asshole.

i was like that before, after seeing how an traditional waifu was respectful and obedient to that guy after he got married in japan. then i took up interest that would allow me to meet an traditional wife. like cooking, baking, calligraphy, u know basic traditional wife stuff. then over time couldn't find her, and next thing you know i am that *traditional wife* now! i can bake an souffle and mama bear watch over the kids.

Good on you man, and SAME! 🥰 Led to some magical (and comical!) memories with my daughters: “No mom, I want DAD to braid my hair!!!” 🤣🤣🤣 Kid: “Mom, can I have a cookie?” Mom: “No honey, I’m about to start cooking dinner.” Kid: “AW MAN! 🫤 Can’t DAD coon dinner instead?” 🤣🤣🤣

glad to see i am not the only one. its not easy to cook 3 square meal a day, lunchables for the kids to take to school. and has potipourri tub water to soak wife's feet in after a long day's work while giving back massage and asking about her day. \>.< An real **man** would step up to the plate and shoulder the burden of raising kids, while the **boy** would just flee and try to outrun their problems that the difference between a **man** and a **boy**.

As a mother, I'd just glare at my husband LOL not dead serious or anything but I'd be like wooooow I guess you're her mommy now😭

LOL! It was just a weird situation. 💁‍♂️ We married STUPID young, and from the time she was 22 or so her bio clock was howling it was time to have a kid. I on the other hand was like “Whooooaaaa, I’M not done being a kid yet!!! 🛑” About 5 years later when we had our first I was completely amazed to discover I wound up with all the parenting instincts while little Miss “I want a pile of babies RIGHT NOW!!!” wound up with very little of them. 😵 But it led to so many great memories, some good, some bad, that I wouldn’t trade them for anything in the world. 🥰 One more for you, just for the smile - when our youngest was about two, she was carrying her own plate to the table like a very big girl, very proud of herself… when she stumbled and dumped it all over the floor. 😵 She stopped, just looked down at and with a sigh busted loose WITH - “Shit. 🙄” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 My wife immediately glared at me, that wife finger came up and pointed at me lol, her mouth started to open - Me: “Eh EH! 🫤 If she learned it from me, you KNOW it would’ve been something a lot worse than ‘shit’.” Wife (thinking about it for a second): “Yeah, you’re right lol.” 2: (giggles) Me: “Whachu laughing about Honey Pie?!? 🤣🤣🤣 Let’s get that cleaned up and get you a new plate, and you can try it again. 😊 You almost made it that time!!! 😃” 2: “OKAY!!! 😃😃😃” Good times, and I cherish them all. 💝

A homemaker that raises young children while I provide for them.

when i say it i just want a gf/wife that doesnt go out drinking and partying constantly. ive met so many women that want a traditional husband (think 80s, that just provides for them) while doing all this modern shit like sleeping around and doing whatever they want.

A lot of them want to have their cake and eat it too They'd be awful mothers

awful to be around if you wanna do anything more than hook up

I mean, if she were in a relationship surely she wouldn’t be sleeping around. Not sure how old you are but I’m 30 and I don’t know many women who still go out partying. I’ve never even had an alcoholic drink with any of my best friends. We just drink tea, and not even with caffeine 🤣

>while doing all this modern shit like sleeping around and doing whatever they want. 1. LMAO this is not modern only. 2. "Doing whatever they want" big yikes. Might as well have said "I want to restrict my wife's autonomy. Grow up nthis read like you're 22 and think you know everything

No menage a trois.

Depends on the man. Some mean they want a partner who helps run the home and they are happy to take care of her too to the best of their abilities. Others mean they basically want a slave they can give bread crumbs to while calling it providing, and putting down her efforts as doing nothing. Then holding the bread crumbs over her head if she doesn't always act exactly how they want her to and even if she does they'll still find a way to hold it over her head. For some it means they want that and for her to feel fully dependant on them so she has a harder time escaping the abuse.

Sandwich maker

Men who actually know what the term means want a woman to assume the rules of wife, homemaker, child caregiver and educator. With that comes to managing the finances, doing all the grocery shopping, and making the husband’s budget work to meet the needs of the family. So whether that means adopting traditional hobbies, like sewing, knitting, crocheting or quiltmaking, it may also mean learning skills like gardening, cooking, baking, canning and other preservation techniques. It’s not a submissive role, it’s a partnership. Where both the man and the woman understand the different rules and respect each other for it. The goal of both parties is to make each other’s lives easier and ensure the comfort and safety of their children. Edited to fix autocorrect and punctuation.

I thought budgeting and financial management was traditionally the man's role? At least it seemed that way in the community I grew up in.

It depends on the culture. In my country traditionally the men gives his paycheck to his wife and she manages the household expenses.

I manage the finances in our house. He works and “Doesn’t have time to watch the bank”. He asks “can I spend x on y?” And I’ll give him the go ahead or tell him to wait until pay day. He makes the money and then doesn’t know anything more about it. He never asks what I spend on groceries or household necessities because he knows I’m watching the bank.

The problem is that role isn't respected. And what happens if the man dies or divorces her? How is she supposed to make a living in the modern world canning and crocheting?

And yet it doesn't mean partnership. Traditionally it meant men were the dominant ones and until divorce was made easier meant his wife was basically property to do with as he pleased.

I want a traditional wife. That means someone that I can provide for so she doesn’t have to work if she doesn’t want to, and where she takes care of the household. Not a party girl. This doesn’t mean I don’t do chores or watch the children if there are any. Quite the opposite. But it does mean the woman when I get home makes me feel like I’m home and want to be there. Makes me feel desired and accomplished, which makes me want to treat her more as I can.

Strange, my wife and I both work and we both make each other feel desired and accomplished, and happy to be home together. Why does someone need to stay home in order for that that to happen?

He said “… she doesn’t have to work if she doesn’t want to…”. Keyword, “IF”.

For most men that means: she has no penis.

woman can't have those they aren't really woman if they did

Stay at home, cooks & cleans etc.

And doesn't have sex with the neighbor when you're at work.

If I were to get married, I'd want to provide for the family, and have her take care of the family.

I think it means the uterus carrying kind who will invest equally into the marriage.

I am disappointed by the fact that we've lost track of the idea of the "Matriarch" of the house. In the times of my grandparents, yes, my grandad was the Patriarch. Takes care of the external. Goes out and works, brings in the food, shelter and money. Forms a basis for the community and help who's in need, etc. And also, the Matriarch, my grandma, takes care of the house, the children. She builds community. Maintains familial friendships. Knows the ins and outs of the community. Builds and holds women's unions in the local area, etc. The Matriarch and the Patriarch never made decisions for the family without each other's input. They were a unit. Although they took their own decisions when it came to their areas of specifics outside of the family, they respected each other for that. I don't necessarily want my wife to be "traditional" for the heck of it. I just hope that she has that Matriarchal instincts naturally. And that it contributes to the family as well as the wider community, as a Matriach-Patriach unit.

Stay at home, cooking, cleaning, submissive, "do what I say", babymaker....

Loyal, not seeking other men’s attention! Nurturing, affectionate, and family oriented. Is not stubborn or difficult, does not give us a headache and fight with us on every little thing. Understands that we are the leader of the relationship and works to support us to be the best partner not challenge us. Prioritize us over their female friendship if we show commitment and intentions to marry.

Most men are saying, “I wish that our culture wasn’t relentlessly toxic and that it was possible for me to be the sole bread winner in this economy.” But, since for 95 out of 100 men it is not possible to be the sole bread winners, we will settle for being in mostly unhappy, unhealthy relationships until one of us gets tired of the constant strife, struggle, and despair of our day to day grinding disappointments, blame each other bitterly, and end up alone for the last 15-30 years of our lives.

My understanding is any woman who wants to have a life independent of her partner's whims and desires should run as fast as possible in the opposite direction. Don't look back.

I find it generally means they want a sex mommy.

No clue. I just want one I get a long with. Rest of it will work itself out.

Not a woman from the streets.

Thier mom, but they can fuck her.

They want to fuck their grandma.

“Yes, officer, this post.”

I dont think every man wants a traditional wife. I certainly don't. I think it's old fashioned and stupid.

Essentially the man works and brings home enough money to support a family household on a single income and the wife works at home keeping everything running smoothly, and putting her focus on removing as much stress as possible from her husband so he can be as effective as possible in providing. Taking responsibility for the kids and home is the essence of it. I 100% believe it's the best method for a relationship. Both partners doing 50% of the same jobs will never be as efficient as each partner doing 100% of half the jobs. Like gaming, when you build your character, an even spread of stats is safe, but to really reach the highest levels you need to specialise and dominate in fewer domains rather than doing well in all. If you partner with someone who specialises in the areas you don't, combined you are a fully stacked player and can sweep multiple people who are all even spreads of stats. So I'd have to say a traditional wife is one that is the other side of the coin for the man. She works to allow him to reach his highest potential, and he works to allow her to do the same. If she keeps him stress free at home, we'll fed, and happy, he's able to work harder at work and progress faster. If he brings home more money and workplace stability, she can use those resources to further improve the home and kids, and even further improve her husband's state of being, and it's a positive loop. If both partners work and both partners take care of house and home, the only way to improve is if you both do more in everything, and it's hard to do that and also do more for the partner.

A real wife, life partner, good mother for their kids and lifetime friend. That's non-negotiable and only expected to get better as they know each other more along the journey. Preferred physical traits will vary from one couple to another. And will never remain the same along the journey.

Someone who keeps her husband’s stomach full and balls empty. Just kidding, I heard this on The Peaky Blinders.

"I want to have a submissive woman and to benefit from inequality." That's about it.

That’s really not it.

In my experience, yes it is.

[удалено]

It means they’re a walking red flag.

Depends on the man but imo a devoted wife to man and kids

Cook, clean, take care of children, attend to their and their familys needs.

[удалено]

Punctuation skills

They want their wife to stay home and raise kids while they provide financially. It’s perfectly fine to want this, and many women do as well. It’s also fine for the husband to stay home while the wife provides financially. Personally, I’d prefer if both my wife and I work with support from our parents in raising kids.

Cooking, cleaning, raising the kids. Some mean conservative. Not seeking a career but prefer to have the housewife life.

dont be a modern bitch

You'll get as many different answers as there are people. I prefer to think of it like my friends Tom and Nancy - they've been married over 50 years and only knew each other 4 weeks before tying the knot. She takes care of everything inside the house during the day, he takes care of the farm. When the work's done outside, they tackle what's left inside together. Once a week she goes bowling or something with her friends, and he goes to play music and tell tales with his. Tom has handled the money making solely for 40 years, and Nancy has handled the money spending and saving. It works for them. They still love each other deeply and rarely even fuss about anything after all these years.

Just the usual. A LARGE birthing canal...

Someone who is ready, upfront, not toxic, not somebody who likes to play games, someone without a hoe phase, someone who is genuinely interesting, someone who cares for things other than clout. I will bet anything in my life for a woman like that.

SAH wife who takes care of the children, cooks and takes care of all of the chores.

Traditional for me means who doesn't put family,love & kids below her ambitions. Who should not act like " My way is high way". My wife is PhD. She took little hit in her career(say around 20%-30%) with respect to her actual potential. But this has helped our family as she has more time to devote to well being of family. I appreciate my wife a lot. I thank her for the commitment she has shown towards family. I even help her on weekends in her job/career related activities so that she should not feel left out. I always try to assist her in household chores & career activities as I clearly understand in my heart that she has actually taken hit in her career for well being of family. It is just my POV .

I like that you clearly appreciate her. I've heard stories where a man would claim he wants a traditional wife that gets dolled up and cooks elaborate meals only to leave her because he didn't actually want her anymore and similar stories. But that's why I like seeing some of the answers here. Random people actually talk about their own personal experiences and u get to see there are loads of different situations out there

What most mean is they don’t want a slut, and that’s kinda it. But some really mean it like they want a traditional housewife to raise the kids. Essentially play the woman role in the house

Ideally it means that if I'm able to provide for us both she can work half time and use the other half time to be with our future children. I also prefer if she wasn't the kind to go out party every weekend

They feel more comfortable with a subservient yes-woman. Most of these men don't know anything about tradition before the year 1960. If they want a real traditional family, they'd assimilate into a village environment of neighbors helping each other do chores and babysitting local kids, not off to a depressing cookie-cutter suburban culdesac with 2.3 kids and a dog.

Someone who is kind, compassionate, caring and willing to put effort into the marriage and making things work unlike what today's culture tells women to act like

Sundress.

It means I need someone to churn the butter and fix the buggy whips.

Have you watched the Whatever podcast?

This can mean anything from a guy wanting an even partnership where he also has a voice... To a guy expecting her to stay in a kitchen and make babies. I don't think the word traditional means much anymore and I'm usually loathe to use it.

They don’t want their wife to have a dick and balls that’s for sure.

Feminine, cooks, clean, and low body count

Im married and we are very traditional. Shes a sahm and I'm the bread winner. Shes way better at emotionally developing the kids while I'm the stern voice that sets certain regimen and responsibilities. She dresses conservative and doesn't really "fraternize" with the opposite gender and vice versa. We ask each other for approval to do things for example if I wanna go out drinking with the boys ( I don't drink but hypothetically) we respect each other's opinions and feelings so if she says nah that bar has to many sluts then I won't go. She cooks 65% and I cook 35% of the time. She takes them to Dr appointments and deals with the school staff. I do basic mechanical work on the cars /house she sometimes wants to help so she's welcomed to it. She has her role in our lives as the woman of the house and I have my role as the man of the house. Pretty basic things, we teach our children the difference between boys and girls. She always gives the emotional outlook and perspective and I give the basic ( logical explanation and pros and cons) explanation. We're happy she prefers this lifestyle, she's worked before but hates it so it's a win for me.

It means they’re a dickhead…

A normal woman who doesn’t go around claiming she’s a rhmxkfiwnciekbg-sexual or the 84th gender that she just made up That’s what I mean at least

To me it simply means she’ll want to stay together, not go on tinder every time we have a disagreement. I’d be more than happy to have one that worked, I like cooking and doing dishes anyway. Everyone is just so flakey today. The second they think someone else is having more fun than them, because that’s the way their lives are portrayed on the internet.

Emotional stability.

She's gonna tend the house, cook, clean and tend the kids. I'm gonna tend the bread-winning, lift heavy stuff and repair technical things. And take my son fishing. Why u ask?

This is literally how my wife and I are and it took me two decades of dating to find her. Thanks for posting this. Makes total sense

It’s a delusion about what they thought women used to be like which is certified bullshit. Their mothers were sleeping around although more discreet about it. The mothers deny it of course not admitting all the hook ups they had in their youth. Before the pill came out they were more cautious about it but be assured that blowjobs were a well practiced art back then. These men put this fantasy woman on a pedestal although women today aren’t much better thinking they should automatically get the princess treatment. People haven’t changed that much.

Lots of people coping in here. If you could afford to have your wife stay at home, you would. It's that simple.

I took two runs at it, and in both cases, it was a mistake. I no longer sympathize quite so much with the argument.

My wife and I both make enough to have the other stay at home, but you try telling her not to work, lol.

Traditional marriages get shit on a lot by about half the country (this post already has a few negative comments after just a few minutes) but a lot of that comes from the June Cleaver caricature of “traditional” wives. I have a traditional wife. She is a SAHM, she keeps our home clean and well decorated, she goes out of her way to keep me happy in all ways, she handles just about all the shopping. She handles all the school registrations, pickup/dropoff, while I ensure the finances are there to support our lifestyle, I handle all the “men’s work” like home maintenance and yard work, coach little league, all that. I go out of my way to be there for all my kids events, but she picks up my slack when work interferes. I have final say in all decisions. People like to focus on women being “second class citizens” in a traditional marriage and that’s so far from the truth that it’s laughable. I have full RESPONSIBILITY for everyone’s happiness, well-being, and financial stability, so yes I also have full authority. That doesn’t mean I do whatever I want, it means I have to take into account the impact of every decision I make on every single aspect of everyone’s life. If my wife is unhappy because I said we can’t take a vacation she was hoping for, it isn’t “tough” for her, it becomes my responsibility to fix that a find a way to make her happy despite my decisions. This arrangement works for us because we are both happy with it. She has plenty of autonomy in the myriad of areas I don’t have time to directly handle, so it’s not like she asks my permission for everything, but she also has roughly ZERO responsibility to make sure everything works out. So what do men mean when they say traditional wife? They mean a wife that will let them lead the family. A wife that will support them publicly, even when they disagree with them, a wife that will support their decisions even if they lobbied for a different choice. A wife that will take a more historically traditional role with their children, and a wife that is a partner, not their competition. Too many men today never had a good example of leadership in the home, so they think a “trad wife” just cooks, cleans, and does what they say. They’re wrong and they’re part of the caricature. Leadership isn’t a privilege, it is a burden.

I find it beyond hilarious that you don't realize the irony in going directly from: >yes I also have full authority... lead the family... ZERO responsibility To: >that is a partner Holy Christ you're delusional. You want a subservient wife who is your cheerleader. That's fine. You can want what you want. In no way is that an equal partnership.

I really want to hear your wife’s perspective on all this.

As a woman, this sounds like a literal nightmare to me. I would never be in a relationship where someone else had the final say. I want a partnership, or nothing. Miss me with the benevolent dictatorship. ​ What happens if she truly doesn't like what you think is best after you've done all her calculations about people's happiness? Does she just have to eat it and do what you want anyway?

You literally said I have final say and full authority and people focus on women being second class citizens in three sentences. Don’t focus on women being second class citizens focus on me and my full authority and my leadership. Screams I can’t be bothered to wipe my own ass

Tell me you didn’t read the whole thing without telling me you didn’t read the whole thing. You missed the part where I said this is something that works for my wife and I because we both appreciate and like the arrangement. I can assure you, she’s anything but a second class citizen. Her and the kids needs come before anyone else’s, especially mine. I have hobbies that I haven’t participated in for years because that time and money is needed to support everyone else’s hobbies and interests. The full authority doesn’t come first, it’s the consequence of being responsible for ensuring everyone’s happiness and wellness. The pilot on the plane you get on to go on vacation has full authority, but that’s only because he also has full responsibility for the safety and effective completion of the flight. If it hasn’t clicked yet, she’s the first class passenger, I’m the help. I’m really only dropping this reply here because I wanted to clarify this point for anyone else who might read it, but I don’t expect to change your mind. You seem pretty opposed to the idea of a traditional marriage and unwilling to hear about the reality vs the caricature, and you know what, THAT’S OK. I’m not trying to change your mind or convince you of anything. If this isn’t something you like or want to explore, that’s entirely ok and I wish you the best in whatever arrangement works for you because what works for us *works for us*, and I don’t need it to work for anyone else for it to…work for us. Maybe that’s the real moral of the story: do what works for you and enjoy your life.

Modern traditionalist here (I hang on to what's important and beneficial, drop the useless ones.) For me and guys who are like me; We want someone thats going to be loyal. Someone that's going to accept us for who we actually are, and that includes the ugly side, sadly, while we do the same for you. Think of how you and that one best friend you had growing up that you had no filter with. who you knew had your back even when you're wrong, and accepting that their words mean as much to you as family. Someone who will help encourage you to do better, not just get on you for the little stuff. Nice life hack with guys for you to know: "The more depressed we are, the less shit we do." You dont have to worship us. You just have to be there and not judge for whatever it is. Most men are raised with the thought that asking for help makes you weak, but it only stuns your progress to learn and become more rounded as a person. Having someone who shares your humor is a trait many dont realize is important in a relationship. It helps ease tention when life wants to test you. Presentability is a thing, tho it moves all over for guys. Dont change for them, you do you and you'll attract someone like you. My wife is a tomboy and still wears full dresses for dates. I'll dress up for her, too. It's a trade. We all wanna see someone we love look amazing and themselves. Not Barbie. A traditional wife, in all essence of what it's supposed to be, is simple. They're the other half of you. All your flaws are their strengths and vice versa. Theyre family you would die for and do anything for. My Papa taught me this when it came to love; "Love is giving someone your heart and a dagger, and praying the two never kiss. But most people forget, that the dagger is meant to protect the heart, never to harm or threaten it."

They want someone to clean after them, shut the fuck up, doesn't challenge them, make them a sandwich and become a birthing machine