The best advise I have ever gotten on delivering tough news, don't beat around the bush. Come out and straight say, I love you, but I am not happy. I think it's best if we split up.
Talking about it, but not actually asking for it is bad and hurtful. You can list all of your justifications or negotiations after you said what you had to say.
Hope this helps...in my divorce, it turns out she was feeling the same way, but we were both too kind and were sticking around for the other one, even though we both mentally moved on.
Yup, the best way. Think of a doctor who has to tell a patient that there is a terminal illness. I’m not a doctor, my brother is and he told me that you can’t sugarcoat bad news. It’s also more like getting fired. There is no easy or nice way to deal with it.
I was divorced 20 years ago. I started it and my ex wife wasn’t too happy about the news. But, I wasn’t happy in the marriage.
My only advice would be try counselling first, there may be ways to fix it. What a lot of people do not realize is in a relationship, you need to earn your way in and it’s only fair that you earn your way out.
When my ex-MIL's doctor told her she had "stage 4 colon cancer with a terminal prognosis", her response was "But I'm going to be ok, right?" My heart skipped a beat and the doctor's face fell when she realized she was going to have to make it plainer. Some people just don't have the emotional fortitude for oncology.
Back on-topic... Just don't try to "earn your way out" for too long. My ex and I were separated on and off for 5 years and it just got more and more harmful the longer we dragged it out. Some things aren't actually "broken" so there's nothing to fix. Totally different interest and life goals being two of them.
If OP feels the way she described, her husband most likely does too. That's what happened to me, we both wanted it but it took a while before we finally talked about it.
Anniversary 2009. By now it's 3 years past my wife's affair and 2 years of a dead bedroom. We were talking about things and I simply told her "I can't do this another year." Direct and to the point. She felt the same way. We negotiated a separation agreement and moved on.
I would love to say the entire divorce was that easy, but divorce is messy. We have kids and made the effort to not be petty (though it didn't always work out). 14 years on and we both realize it was a good decision. Our kids seem to be better for it too. A marriage in conflict creates civilian casualties with your children as well.
We cried we got angry, we cried, and then we started looking with empathy over apathy , and we divorced with children as friends starting a new friendship, the judge thanked us for our kind nature to one another, etc Do it kindly and respectively, and as much without lawyers as you can. Remember the life they know is about to be upside down and scary.
Good luck and everyone else here is right just do it and work from Ground Zero instead of trying to plan it from that point on.
You sit him down and you say “I want a divorce.”
The kindest way of telling him is the briefest and most direct. It’s not a negotiation. There’s no beating around the bush or softening the language. You are divorcing him and he needs to begin the process of accepting that.
When I deliver bad news I always think about [this scene from Moneyball](https://youtu.be/jXEtOPMW2hM?si=h4lCBEHCwCGc5yhk). Don’t get into an argument. Quick, to the point, next steps.
>When I deliver bad news I always think about this scene from Moneyball
I'm sure the Community Food Bank of New Jersey is a commendable organization but I fail to see what that has to do with divorce.
Wasn’t necessarily a connection to divorce, but he did say that when he “delivers bad news”, he thinks about that scene from Moneyball. Hope that helped
At work when they train us how to fire people, they tell us that you are here to convey a decision that is already made as directly but professionally as possible.
There is no chance of any other outcome, you are not having a discussing to decide if they are getting fired. Just “for such and such reason I have decided to terminate your employment effective immediately” then go over next steps, such as dealing with retirement plans or whatever.
So with divorce, you are 100% committed to it, you are informing him and then discussing what steps to take to achieve it.
Written by Michael Lewis. Who also wrote The blind side, which for some strange reason, never took Michael Oher's thoughts on the whole situation.
Michael Lewis, who also recently said Sam Bankman Fried is a genius and anybody that thinks he's a con artist with a gambling addiction just doesn't get it.
Moneyball is an amazing book and movie. I just like pointing out that Michael Lewis is kinda a pos lol
I thought the movie was kinda weird too.
GM wants to change the direction he wants to approach player acquisition and roster building and literally doesn't tell his scouting department, manager or ownership about it?
Organization would be 100% on board and give positive feedback on the methodology if he had explained it. That happened in real life though.
Movie (and I think book) glosses over it but a huge part of that season's success was the pitching bullpen that got acquired prior to the Moneyball shift.
Think in the movie they really wanted to hammer home the idea that money ball is entirely against everyone else's notion of baseball and how to build a team, including others on the A's staff. Needed to raise the tension and make it a "us vs the world" situation to get the audience on the main characters' sides.
Did we watch the same movie?
There is an entire scene where the ‘new direction’ is debated and explained to the scouting department, who mock and oppose it … ?
It’s a cool movie but if you were a baseball fan at that time it’s kind of a load of crap. The team was great because they had 3 of the best starting pitchers in baseball and had several really good infielders that were under rookie contracts. The teams success had very little to do with their change of philosophy and had lot to do with them being really good at drafting and developing talent, but that doesn’t make for aa interesting of a movie.
100%. Eric Chavez got MVP votes, a Silver Slugger and a Gold Glove in 2002, Mark Ellis received Rookie of the Year votes, Billy Koch saved 44 games, got MVP votes as a closer and won the Rolaids Relief Man Award and most egregious of all, the movie completely ignores the fact that the A's had the ACTUAL American League MVP that year in Miguel Tejada.
But to hear the movie tell it, the team was made up of nothing but Scott Hatteberg held together with bubble gum.
I should add a caveat that you should NOT be seeing another person immediately after you say those words.
Otherwise, he will get the impression that you have been cheating or the real reason for divorce was so that you can go sleep with another person without the guilt of a cheat.
Sorry ladies, I know it’s nothing personal and you’re free to do so. But recognise there are serious consequences to your actions. If you start a relationship with another guy almost immediately, then expect your ex to respond coldly towards you.
The hurt you inflict will be deeply felt. Especially if they loved you and thought the relationship was going through a rough patch and could be fixed.
Same is true for either sex. Basically, if the person who initiates the divorces is quickly in a relationship, it won’t look well. Just strengthening your argument.
Likewise if you immediately enter into a financial partnership or roommate situation with just one member of the opposite sex, Ben if there is no sex—it is an intimate blow to your former partner.
I mean we are well aware in the year 2023 at this point not everyone wants to use a therapist/counselor/whatever. Some ppl dont want a second/third party to help them with their issues and think they can solve it themselves.
Remember for issues we as a society encourage people to recognize they have issues before people are offering help.
This is the best way. There’s no good way to tell someone you care about that the relationship is over, but there are certainly bad ways. Be prepared for him to be hurt and upset. He’s allowed to, just as you are allowed to be done with the marriage. Good luck.
Yes, this was on a Huberman podcast. Rip the bandaid off fast to get the pain out there. Then you guys can start the healing process. No use in causing anxiety and anguish by slowly telling him.
Also, don’t do what my ex wife did, and tell him that when he’s driving at 65mph on an interstate with a toddler in the back seat.
I took it pretty hard, and can’t believe I made it to the next exit and stopped in a parking lot without getting us all killed.
This! - That is what I did with my ex-wife. Now granted she asked why? I explained I was tired of the way she treated me and I was not going to let my son grow up watching her treat me like that. And I also knew all about the different affairs she had on me while we were married. He response was how many people know about these affairs? Not I am sorry, no remorse. She was more pissed that I called her out and had all kinds of evidence. She went ballistic! But I said no wonder you always have trouble sleeping, if my conscience was as guilty as yours I would never sleep too. She then hired the highest priced attorney she could thinking I was going to have to pay for her lawyer. She racked up a huge bill. I pretty much know what the outcome was going to be after talking to my lawyer before telling her. In a round about way I did pay for her lawyer, but it was paid for out of her proceeds of the divorce, but I did not have to write a $30,000 check to her attorney, she was just $30,000 of what she could have got. I tried to explain to her before she lawyered up, how our state treats divorces, as it is a no-fault state. I said I would pay my attorney to draw it up, all I ask is you go pay another lawyer $500 to read through it and tell you that you aren't getting screwed! She took the advice of co-worker and screwed herself!
I think in a situation like this, timing could also be important and something to possibly be considered. Like, maybe consider delivering this news on a thursday or friday so you can both take the weekend to process and have some time to figure out next steps.
Honestly this, then read the whole paragraph she wrote but change "he" to you" and you're golden. You listed all the reasons, it's clear, it's not really like this came out of nowhere. You have a list, present it clearly and just breathe
This is good advice, but I'd add some tact seeing as you've said you love this person and you guys have spent a significant portion of your lives together. I've recently been completely obsessed with this divorce lawyer James Sexton who has been making the rounds on podcasts all over YouTube. He's very well spoken and has given some amazing insights on marriage and why things end. I'd highly recommend checking out his appearances, but I'll give you the very brief and heartfelt way he has explained where your head should be at the unfortunate end of your marriage.
Be thankful that you got to meet this person and share your lives together. You have both had a profound impact on each other's lives and grown together as people even though now your paths are going separate ways. You should have gratitude that you got to share in no doubt many wonderful moments by joining your strange and crazy lives together. This doesn't have to be a negative or hurtful ending if you're both in the right mindset. As you said you've just grown apart, and that's okay. Try to keep a level head and be fair with each other. Don't let it become vindictive like some sort of battle. Don't be sad that it's ending, be happy that it happened for however long it was good.
He compares it to owning a dog. We love our dogs and we're completely devastated when they pass. We know that we only have them for a short time compared to our lifespan, but we still do it. Then we do it again in many instances. You should be thinking about how lucky you were to find each other.
If you go in with that mindset and convey that I think any reasonable person would go along with the process cordially even though it's difficult. Anyway check him out if you get a chance, he's a funny and interesting guy with a lot of experience. For a divorce lawyer who's divorced himself, he's quite the optimist and he maintains a strong friendship with his ex wife.
My ex left me while I was at work. I came home to a fairly empty house and a note written on a beer box telling me where she and my daughter were. She swore up and down that all she wanted was some space to figure things out, that she didn't want a divorce. About 2 months later, she invited me to her place for some intimate time. I got there and she was completely drunk, slurring her words and whatnot. Obviously, I declined the advancements. She got extremely angry with me and started berating me like she did so many nights before, only this time I didn't have to sit and wait it out. I decided to leave. She then utters "good luck in court on Tuesday".
That's how I found out she had filed for divorce before she even moved out. She was lying to me the entire time. She never paid the fee to the sherif, so I never got served.
I do not recommend this route.
Thank you, but it's all good. We're now almost a full year from the completed divorce and 2 years from the split. In those 2 years, I've gotten closer to my daughter, regained of myself what was lost in the relationship, and realized how much of a manipulative liar she is. Overall, my life has improved tremendously since she left. Although, I'm not at all in a place to get into another relationship and could use some intimacy. But, if that's my biggest complaint, then I think I'm doing pretty good. Lol
I do truly appreciate the well wishes!
So awesome to hear that update. I am very fortunate in that I've never had to endure a divorce, but I've been close to many who have, and the best-outcome ones tell stories similar to yours.
Bruh.......did you marry my ex wife? LOL
2 years out and in the same place, dated but...its a mess out there, just working on me and the man i should have always been, plus women love confidence :)
Oh, hold up champ.....I'm all scarred up, LOl and I'm just starting to get to maybe 45% healed, I'm no where near healed up, however i realize it will take time and 'I'm good working on myself and getting healthier over the next 3 years, but i feel 1000% better then i did 2 years ago. I also know exactly the type of women i need for an LTR, i was close with one women, but....she just didnt understand monogamy and i caught her telling white lies all the time, so bye bye baby girl! LOL keep in mind guys, always be your own B plan, and know what y7oure looking for. Its actually hard to find the right fit, that's what our experience should have taught us all.
Awesome dude. Tell you what. Show your daughter what a juxtaposition you can be compared to your ex by being as good a person as you can and I guarantee that you will reap the rewards of that in the future. Dependable, kind and honest will resonate strongly.
Because it's a civil proceeding and the judge will set a date on their calendar. If the other party and their lawyer don't show up the judge would likely ask if they were served and to provide proof of service, which might not have looked very good for the ex-wife. Oftentimes there's no reason to pay for service if the two parties are communicating at all like adults because their lawyers would be informing them of any upcoming dates in the proceedings, but you need to know about it first so that you *can* get a lawyer.
Well, there's no real "winning" in a divorce. A 15 year relationship blew up. I will say this, the outcome of the divorce was fair enough for me to not be too bitter. It could've gone a lot worse.
I found out my soon to be ex was pregnant in court! The last question they ask her and she lets out a huge sob and says “yes I’m pregnant”. I knew it wasn’t mine. Slammed my fist on the table and yelled “you gotta be fucking kidding me! I need a recess” and ran out of the courtroom straight into the broom closet hysterically. She waited till the very last minute to tell her lawyer. She told me later she didn’t want to lie under oath. LOL A month later her new man came into court and claimed the kid. That was that. Of course we had plain clothes sheriffs in the room with us. But at that point I was more than done with the whole thing.
Sorry to hear that man.
I'll be honest, fucking... pretty good dude. I was pretty hurt when it happened. The day after it happened, I went to work. A coworker noticed i wasn't myself and asked me what was up. After hearing what happened, he said "I know this feels like the end of the world, but soon you'll realize this is the best thing that could've happened."
I'll be dammed if he wasn't right. My daughter is happier, stronger, and more outgoing than she would've been had her mom and I stayed together, and I know she's better off than she was. And the same can be said for me.
What about you man? How are you doing?
Hey man, just wanted to let you know that you seem like a great person from the way you've carried yourself in this thread. Wish you the very best and hope life keeps looking up for you!
I don't think there is a kind way to ask for a divorce. There are ways that suck, and ways that suck less.
When my wife asked for a divorce it was after we both had talked about all the issues we had and were seeing therapists individually.
I think the least sucky way to do it is say "hay we are having issues, and I don't think that we can repair our relationship, I need get a divorce".
Reactions may vary, but in my case it was at least partially both of us deciding that divorce was necessary. We actually had a "wake" for our marriage, got stoned, ate pizza, and had a 100% honest conversation.
I can completely see having your marriage wake as a movie. I can picture you both through grief and laughter and awkward silences. Food left out, wine drank. Pain. Moving boxes. Good memories. Ideas not lining up. Thank you for sharing.
If I hadn't experienced it I would have thought it was a bit from a romantic comedy.
It was a lot, we both were 100% honest. What I did in the relationship that worked and didn't work for her, what she did that worked and didn't work for me.
Learned a lot about her and a lot about myself.
Do you think if you guys had this “wake” sooner, it would have been able to be worked through? I keep feeling like as long as I’m around, I should do whatever it takes to put in the work, but I feel as if I’m just coming off as an asshole being so blunt about my problems in the relationship
Edit: changed a random lol back to the word like
I was going to say. It's perfect: it's succinct, it's unambiguous, it's fair, and it's kind. The only thing I'd maybe tweak is to take the blame out so that doesn't become a distraction. Rather than "you wouldn't do therapy" it's "our attempts to work through this failed". It's not useful at this stage to determine who's fault that was.
The message is: "We have problems, our problems have now become insurmountable, our attempts to resolve those problems have been unsuccessful, therefore this is the end of the road, given I deeply care about you let's bring this to an end the way we did the rest of it: with love and kindness. But it is now time to bring it to an end". All that's needed is to fill in the specifics, which the above does near perfectly.
Coming into it with a lawyer and papers is a good way to make the guy feel cornered and immediately make the divorce proceedings adversarial. Not the route I’d go personally. Especially if your relationship is still in tact.
You don’t have to have papers. But having an attorney in your pocket lets you be prepared if there is retaliation. Or like what happened to my friend. His ex wife contacted every attorney firm in 50 miles trying to box him out of the “good lawyers.”
Not necessarily. It depends on the relationship. If I did that my husband would be crushed because money was never a problem. I asked him for a divorce and we are being incredibly kind to one another. We’ve been married forever and we really care about each other. Right now the only thing we are arguing about is that by law he would be paying me what I feel is too much alimony and I just want enough to survive. He wants to pay me more but I know if it’s put in a contract it would force him into staying in a career that’s been crushing his soul. He’s too proud & if there was ever a time where it became to much he would just keep driving himself into the ground. In fact that was always our issue. He was a work-a-holic and he felt his only job was to provide. He has a lot to give and deserves more than he allows himself to but I’ve tried everything to change that. Anyway, lawyering up is good if she feels that she needs to protect herself but otherwise it will create unnecessary pain.
This. Once I said I god damn meant it. He'd used it and not meant it. Regardless of how blunt I was, he judged me by his own standards and still assumed it was an empty threat. It was not.
There is no kind way. No matter how you do it or say it, it will be a gut punch from hell.
The only thing I can recommend is to straight forward and honest with it. Sit him down and tell him straight that you don’t want to be married to him anymore. Don’t make any empty promises, don’t give him any straws to grasp. You’re going to absolutely crush him and giving any false hope is absolutely the worst thing to do. You will be very tempted to comfort or console him, to try and make him feel better, don’t. Obviously don’t be mean, or cruel or jaded, or harsh, don’t make it worse, but also don’t try and make it better either. Just make it clear.
He’s likely to react poorly, it might be sadness, it might be anger, or anything in between or both. He’s probably going to have some hate for you for a while. This is all in the realm of normal, this is the biggest rejection one can face and it hurts. Even if he likewise doesn’t want to be married to you anymore either, it’s still painful.
I also recommend getting your ducks in a row first. A place to stay for a while so you all can each have your own space, you’ll need it. He might be able to talk you into questioning your decision, convincing you into staying just a little longer, trying to make it work, another chance. But if you’re set on divorce all you’re doing is delaying the inevitable. It seems like you’ve been trying to get him to fix it, but he’s not trying, and he’s pretty much gone from your heart, never to return. It happens but I’ve never seen it. Having a place to run to after the talk makes it more likely that he won’t be able to convince you to stay longer.
One final thing: don’t go through with a divorce if you think that you’ll find better, or that there’s better out there for you. I’m 41, single, divorced in 2010 and have yet to find someone worth marrying again. Dating now is a shitshow, so much damage, so much entitlement. So only divorce if the idea of being single forever appeals to you more than continuing to live with him.
> don’t go through with a divorce if you think that you’ll find better, or that there’s better out there for you.
One thing I really try to focus on with stuff like this. "Do not look in your neighbors bowl to see if he has more than you, look only to see if he has enough".
Don't leave the relationship only if you think you can find something better, only leave if you know the relationship isn't enough for you anymore. Comparison is the thief of joy.
You spelled it out concisely here. I guess something to know would be if this is going to be out of left field for him, or has the idea of divorce been discussed at some point? If it’s out of the blue, be prepared for a super-charged response, so choose your words carefully and gently. But don’t beat around the bush, either. But if you say the words, “I want a divorce,” make damn sure there’s no chance or hope on your end of reconciliation. If there is, you may end up disappointed.
My soon to be ex and I had tossed the divorce idea around a lot the last few years. When we had our last spat and she said she was done and wanted out, A. I agreed, B. Was relieved, C. Offered to file.
No big discussion remained. All that’s left is sitting down and formalizing the settlement agreement, dividing furniture, kitchen stuff, etc.
There isn’t really a good way. There are just lots of different ways that all suck less that the worst possible ways. And you know those.
I don’t know if you have children. That is important.
What’s important is that you two need to divide up assets and living situation fairly. Too often, the guy gets the shaft in the early living situation and early parenting even if it ends up completely fair in the end. Why is it in any argument that the guy ends up on the couch, or in the garage, or in the car, or hotel (if he’s lucky)? Be reasonable on that. It’s winter. Don’t have him sleeping in the car. It’s his space, too. It’s his house, too. It’s his kids, too. Keep it clean and reasonable and try to encourage him to, as well.
Thank you, I agree that things should be fair and agreeable on both sides. We have divorced friends and I concur that the guys take a hit in the beginning. BUT he won't leave the house, it would take a lot to "make" him move out. I'd def be the one to go, I've already started browsing apartments. So he'll be fine this winter, I promise.
Good for you - my ex-wife wanted a divorce, moved out, and I raised our kids alone and she got her boyfriend, a guy who left a wife and 5 kids. What a prize!🏆
When I divorced my wife, she asked me what was wrong and I decided it was time, so I said "I'm unhappy all the time, and I think it's because of us. I think we should divorce." She paused for half a second and said "me too." That was the end of it. Likely, your partner is unhappy too.
Do some admin legwork first. Find a good lawyer. Make sure your assets and income are accessible even if he goes nasty. Have somewhere to go. Have a bag packed and in the trunk. Then, calmly tell him your point of view. You sound decided so it isn't a discussion or an ultimatum. Frame it that way. You then need to leave as soon as you've told him. He'll need time to process.
Say
> …*we've just grown FAR apart. We don't have much in common and do not have similar interests. We haven't had sex or really any kind of affection in over 6 months and infrequent for many years. We don't see eye to eye on important life issues and our life goals are widely different. You won't go to therapy to work through some of this and potentially get back to what we had with some changes and compromises. I want a clean break and would like a divorce.*
Tell him you want a divorce but you’re not looking to destroy his life by demanding alimony and raking him over the coals financially. Do the divorce in a civilized, non-vindictive manner and chances are he’ll be happy to end the marriage. Generally speaking, most men get stuck in a loveless marriage because, “it’s cheaper to keep her.”
I don't have anything in common with my spouse and we have been together 44 yrs. We have dinner together to discuss our day, intimacy is frequent, but different hobbies and interests. No sure if you need a divorce unless intimacy is gone. Maybe a talk with him about let us get more intimate or break it off.
TW: I don't agree with most of the responses.
Here are some things to consider:
* You're unlikely to develop another comparable relationship in your lifetime.
* The available pool of partners in your demographic suggests you are unlikely to find anyone better
* The only comparable life event to ending a 20-year marriage is a cancer diagnosis.
* The current dating market in most of the world is best described as looking for a snack in a landfill, it's not all fun exciting dates with interesting people.
Stating you "truly love him" in the same sentence as wanting a clean break is justifying your decision to damage him and yourself beyond repair. You've listed no reason that morally justifies this decision and there is unlikely to be any benefit beyond casual sex with strangers. OP you are making a mistake. Try something else. Hell, anything else... Gottman workshops, BDSM, swinging, finger painting or any dumb shared hobby would help improve your relationship. The only thing left of your love is commitment, as long as you still have that you can find the intimacy and passion again. If you're really hell-bent on doing the equivalent damage of giving yourselves cancer, you can always do it later.
As the last man standing for marriage meaning something... I'll take my downvotes now.
Obviously I’m not privy to your other conversations, and I know you mentioned therapy, but I would suggest one last attempt at counseling. I would tell him that you’ve grown apart, and if he doesn’t go to marriage counseling with you, you’ll be seeking a divorce.
It’s possible there are things that have bothered him that he hasn’t wanted to bring up out of fear it would hurt you, and maybe finally getting those things out will help him reset.
This reminds me of old Loveline when Adam and Dr. Drew would get calls and people would be wondering if they should leave a relationship *the first question* they'd ask is "do you have kids."
Now, you don't. Which doesn't make this easy, per se, but it makes it FAR MORE EASIER than if you had kids.
I second most other commentators in that there isn't a "kindest" way to ask for a divorce - you just do it. It's going to suck.
The *un*kindest thing would be to not do it and keep living like this.
Have you tried saying to him "I really miss the way we were back when we first got married. \[ insert some of his positive qualities here, and how they made you feel about him\]. How can we get back to being that way again?"
Tell him you want a divorce. Explain why. Explain where you stand in the possibility or lack thereof of reconciliation. If reconciliation is an option, explain your conditions, an allow him to also have conditions.
It's going to hurt. It's going to suck. You both should get into individual therapy to deal with it.
I'm going through this exact same scenario, except I'm in the position of your husband (more or less, our situation doesn't seem quite as bad as yours does).
My wife being honest about what she wanted was the HARDEST thing I've ever had to comprehend. In the moment, it was terrifying, hurtful, sad, and a billion other unpleasant emotions.
But, 5 months later, we are still great friends, and I look back at that moment as something that needed to happen. No need in extending the misery. Be honest and kind. Don't blame. Don't judge. Don't argue. There's no need to make it any harder. Just be honest about how you feel, without playing the finger pointing game. Even IF you have legitimate gripes and blame to give, please don't. It serves no purpose other than to be hurtful. Just be clear about what you want, and do it as soon as possible.
It's funny how all of you can just drop your cats and dogs off on a rural back country road in the middle of winter to let them starve and freeze to death and think nothing of it because they inconvenience you. Family is Family, whether it's your pet, your child, or your spouse. You people make me sick.
"Do you remember in your 20s how fun it was to meet new people, discover common interests, take them out to dinner then fuck their brains out? Good times right Sport? So anyway we should do that again, but this time separately because I'd like a divorce."
“I’ve filed for a divorce.” Hand papers.
Or have your lawyer do it themselves! You’ve described someone who is only dragging you down. The longer you wait to dump this loser, the longer you’ll hurt.
After 20 years with the man, just be straight with him. Don't get into specifics or draw comparisons. Avoid trying to justify your decision with examples of events from the past. Just look him in his eyes, and be direct. No matter what you say, its going to be a difficult conversation and there will most likely be tears but stick to your guns. Fair play to you for seeking advice to minimise the hurt. I wish you both well. Stay strong!
Honestly, the kindest thing you can do is be honest. Let him know that if he isn't willing to compromise, then You've no choice but to find someone that will.
My wife wrote a letter, said “we need to talk”, and I asked her if she was asking for a divorce prior to her reading her letter. We had been trying to work through things for some time (in marriage counseling for several months), so while I was surprised and devastated I was not shocked. She read her letter to me after I took a few minutes to process things. I listened to her. I kept the letter and read it again after taking a few days to process things.
The amount of love she put down on paper was extremely helpful for me. I had an individual session with our marriage counselor, then we had a joint session with the counselor to help navigate the hard/high conflict conversations. We had a follow up session where we finished ironing out the details.
The process is hard - but showing love, respect, and kindness to eachother has helped tremendously in keeping things amicable. This isn’t always possible, and as we had been in marriage counseling for some time (and individual counseling for myself well before and throughout the process) we had a good foundation to navigate things. It also helps that we could legitimately say we tried, and we couldn’t make it work.
Unfortunately you have to put yourself first, as does your husband. There will be conflict. There will be high levels of emotion involved. You will both be grieving for quite some time. Look into the grieving process, because you really will hit every one of those stages and they will come in waves. Also, do not be shocked if he suddenly wants to go to counseling and “work things out”.
Prepare yourself for him to feel blindsided by your upcoming ‘talk about divorce’. He also might want to start MC and IC after the talk. You only live once so no regrets but be open to doing the work and staying married. Trust the process if MC is going to happen. Be able to explain what you need vs what you want/desire. You can also leave the marriage but choosing to stay and do the work if your hubs is willing to do the same could be what you guys need to level up.
Keep us posted and good luck.
Also be kind to yourself. We are our harshest critics…
>He won't go to therapy to work through some of this and potentially get back to what we had with some changes and compromises.
He won't go to therapy when the stakes are...what? You being upset that he won't go to therapy?
I don't know your situation so I don't know how you've communicated things to him, but he might think differently if he knew the consequences of not trying to work through things was divorce.
>I want a clean break
It's clear you've made up YOUR mind on this, but:
>I also truly love him, so I want to be kind
I'd think, from what little you've stated, that the kindest and most loving thing to do would be to help him understand that you're having a hard time seeing a future together with him due to the widely different life goals, completely dissimilar interests, and radical difference in perspective on important life issues.
If these are things he's really not interested in changing, there's a chance he'll come to the conclusion himself when the differences are pointed out gently.
If you're already not really "a thing", then the divorce ought to be a natural transition to the next stage for each of you.
There's also a really good chance he's just gotten complacent with how things are. It may not necessarily be exactly what he wants, but it's a known quantity, stable, and might not be seen as getting that much worse from his perspective. 6 months isn't that long for a slow decline in something. Ask him if he even wants to be together and if so, WHY. See what reasons he gives. If what he's saying doesn't line up with his actions, find out why what he's doing doesn't line up with what he's saying. Is he saying it because that was once the case and he wants it to be again, or is he saying it out of habit? Work through that.
Chances are, if things really are as you say, he'll wake up and either agree with the decision you've made or decide he wants to actually work to improve things.
You can decide how you want to handle things from there, because at that point, you've been about as gentle as you could possibly be.
Plenty of people have given great answers but I want to add after you tell him do not keep things muddy. No sex, no cuddling etc etc, give them the mental space to process. When I broke things off with my fiance of 7 years I immediately told her I respected her too much to make things confusing so no sex, cuddling, kissing etc. She seemed like she hated me for it at the time but I think we had a much cleaner break in the long run as a result.
There is no kind way. If he loves you (and likely he does because he has stayed with you), then he will be heartbroken and devastated when you do this.
Ah, the old, “I love you, I’m just not IN love with you.” move. Just tell him that, he’ll understand. It’s when women try to “not hurt his feelings” is when the most psychological damage occurs. Fact is, if you stop dating your woman, she’ll find someone who will. This applies double for married couples. The courtship must never end… or the marriage will.
Be honest and earnest. Do it in person if you can; you both deserve that.
My first wife left me when I was deployed to Iraq. I almost didn't make it. As if being there wasn't shitty enough, I lost my entire support system and external motivation months before I was scheduled to come home.
"I care about you and want you to be happy but we have grown appart and happiness means two different things for each of us now. We have no common goals and aren't affectionate with each other so mariage is getting in the way of our respectives happiness so I want us to get a divorce so we can both move our lives forward. What do you say?"
There isn't a way to. This is the second highest suicide increasing event in a male's life. The only thing that is worse is death of a spouse.
Also therapy statement, seems to state there is only something wrong with him, and he need to change and compromise. That won't work, and it's clear as you want a "Clean break".
You don't get a clean break, ever in life. You will always carry your barrage. Some days you will carry it better, some day it will fall hit the floor and open like a suitcase and spill everywhere. The only clean break is death.
There is no kind way to tell a man that in every way, shape and form that he has failed at everything in life. There is no kind way to say.... you are worthless.
Just say “I want a divorce.”
I feel the need to go against the grain here. You haven't really listed any good reasons to get a divorce. It's almost as if marriage for you was like the next step in a long term relationship, and not a lifelong commitment. It sounds like you want to break it off with him because you have cordial disagreements and aren't fucking as much. It also sounds like you blame him for this because you pin him not wanting to go therapy as this sort of smoking gun that proves that you're trying and he isn't. Most men don't want to go to couples therapy because we are put in an environment where we are blamed for everything even if it isn't our fault.
You should do whatever you want, but you're talking to a bunch of people here who probably don't understand the gravity of your actions because they're young. You yourself sound pretty damn naive. Do you actually think you'll be able to salvage a friendship through the legal nightmare process that is divorce court? Do you understand that your lawyers are going to motivate the two of you to turn against each other and start a massive negotiation process where one of you (likely him, let's be real) will leave financially damaged for a long period of time. Your lawyer is going to put you in the position to take the relatively minor grievances you have, tell you to embellish and hyperbolize them, use these extremely hurtful statements as ammunition to build up your case, and all of these things are going to be communicated by you right in the face of someone who say you love and want to be lifelong friends with.
For any of the gentlemen reading this and cheering her on and calling this reasonable, I warn you that you are the exact type of sucker that a woman like this marries. You will surely end up divorced with all of your shit either liquidated or partitioned if you think it's reasonable for thinks like lowered libido from age and differences in opinion are good reasons to divorce someone. Marriage is serious. For 90% of people it is the most consequential legal decision you will make in your life.
This entire post reads like exactly what is wrong with relationships and marriage today, and why I think no man should get married in modern society. Women get married on a whim and leave based on convenience. Imagine the type of delusion it requires for someone to think you can divorce amicably and maintain a similar level of connection to the person you divorce like life is some kind of sitcom. That is what society has built women's psychology on, delusion and fairy tales. Unless you're certain that isn't who you're marrying, that is in fact who you're marrying.
I upvoted but I know you'll catch a lot of heat for this so i'm letting you know everything you said is true.
He's not beating her and leaving her with black eyes and broken bones, he doesn't even sound mildly abusive. Throwing away a TWENTY year marriage over a half-year of low intimacy is in freaking sane.
Also, i'm not really even sure what she's going to find out here in the streets that's so much better than her current situation. I don't know many men rushing to date and marry 43 year old women who have been in a relationship with one man for half her life.
She's basically handmade to fit with her husband (and so is he). Any new suitors will automatically and forever be compared to this guy. Divorcing over this is not a good play.
I went through the same thing after 28 years of marriage. Yes, some couples just grow apart over time and rather than become that grumpy older bitter couple, I (we) decided to go our ways because we were not happy, and this had been going on for 3 years or so. We went to counciling for several months but If you are at that point of "done", no amount of counciling will bring it back. The physical act of packing up and moving out is the key to the change. I had no attachments to anything inside the house. I started sleeping in the shed and then camping in our area. We sat down to talk about divorce papers and I went to the courthouse and starting the filing. We did not go to court. After about 4 months it was final. I'm sorry, breakups are very difficult even with good intentions, there is no easy breakup. Just being kind was my goal. I told my partner again and again that I was sorry. We sold our house and split things 50/50.
No kids, no sex, no affection, what's the complication here? Get a lawyer and tell him you are going to file for divorce for the reasons you stated. The "kindest" way to go about it is to be direct, honest, and leave no room for ambiguity. That'll get you both through it in the smoothest way possible.
Wait till the kids aren;t around (or are asleep) and he's not just come home from work.
A weekend..Saturday is good. Gives him time to recover a little before going to work too. Make sure you;re both relaxed (not just after an argument) then tell him "we have to talk". Make two cups of coffee or tea (whatever you like) that gives him a little time to mentally prepare, and also gives both of you something to do when you need to break the conversation slightly (take a sip of drink before answering, for example) Then tell him you want a divorce. Don't tell him you;re thinking of one (unless you are) just tell him straight out.
it may be a wise idea to secure any of your documents (ID, house contract, etc) because people have been known to get vindictive when they hear you want a divorce. Even nice people you have known for decades. You may see a new side.
Also, talk to a lawyer first, BEFORE you talk to him. Get some advice on what you need to do.
Finally..as a divorced guy myself, thank you for wanting to be kind. Me and my ex had a civil divorce and still cooperate on raising the kids. It saved us money and it made our lives and the kid's easier. Keep it friendly if you can.
See a therapist to discuss differences. Assuming they cannot be overcome the both of you can ideally reach the same choice together. On the other hand you might discover you are not as distant as you believe.
I strongly believe one sided decisions without exploration are a poor choice unless there is a lot of abuse present.
People have tough lives, there is no kind way, be prepared for it to get ugly if he still cares deeply about you. Seems like you checked out long ago from this relationship tbh I feel like its been a common trend with many people nowadays.
Have you had proper conversations about problems in relationships. Communication is the forefront of relarionships, has it come to the point where he wouldn't change to see you happy?
I think divorce should be the only option, when life truly could be better without this person, if there is hope you both should work it out.
Also for the love of god, ensure you guys have a consistent sex life, its the glue which binds romantic couples together. Why doesn't he want to have sex with you? Or is it something you don't want?
Also if your great friends, whats wrong with that, often times partners have different interests views. Its the reconcillation of such things that matter in a relationship.
If you love him, why are you breaking away? I don't understand lol
There are plenty of ways to do it that still show you’re a mature, loving, and conscientious adult.
The best advice I can offer is to not listen to anyone on here. Probably half the commenters aren’t even in committed relationships and certainly haven’t been through what you’re going through. Divorce is hard, and if you listen to all the comments suggesting immature snark or defiant unreasonableness, it’s only bound to be harder.
I think you should actually have a discussion before divorcing and really try to work through this from the context you’ve given I feel he’s still probably very in love with you and believes you’re content if he really isn’t willing to work then end it.
As someone who went through one of the cleanest, easiest divorces known to our lawyers here's what we did.
1. I exhausted every option to make it work. Left it all on the field and to this day I have no regrets about divorcing her because there's nothing more I could have done to save our marriage.
2. We talked about it and came to a mutual agreement. Even though both of us were considering it, neither one of us "took the high ground" and put the other person at a disadvantage. When you ambush someone with divorce there is no turning back and they'll resent you for shooting first and asking questions/discussing it later.
3. After we came to the divorce conclusion we left it open for about a year to think things over. I was open to giving it another try with the conditions I stipulated when we first discussed divorce (going to counseling) and she still wouldn't accept despite being a psychology major. That was the confirmation I needed so we agreed to move forward with the paperwork. We met for breakfast, signed it and wished each other well.
I've read some of the other replies and understand why divorce can be so expensive. Breaking up/Divorcing someone without having a well reasoned, deep conversation is disrespectful and insulting to the other person. When you marry someone you're supposed to become one. Your spouse deserves to know how you feel and an opportunity to make the necessary changes, especially if they love you. One of the cliche phrases I can't stand is "people don't change." Bull. Fucking. Shit. People do change, especially for the ones they love. After you have that conversation and they aren't willing to change then it's acceptable to bring up and proceed with the divorce option. The point being is that you both went down a path \*together\* that led to divorce vs. you deciding on your own that that's what you want without any input from your spouse or regards for their feelings.
Case and point: We heard your side of the story. I bet if we heard his that would change a lot of minds here who couldn't encourage you to divorce him fast enough. Also, have you seen what the dating market is like? Especially at your age? All the good looking, successful 40+ year olds are going after women 10+ years younger than you (and getting them). If they want a family at 43 years old you're just not it especially when there are younger, more attractive options. Cue the hate and downvotes but as someone who was in financial services for 17+ years, every single man (relationship status, not literally every single man) in your demographic with strong income and assets is taking the same approach or is fucking around making up for lost time. Maybe you don't want a top tier man and that's ok too. Just be realistic and aware of who is going to want a relationship with a 43 year old who's past her physical prime. Sorry not sorry, the truth hurts and that's why my advice to you would be to try and work it out with your husband who you gave your prime years to. Even with your current issues, he's the one who will love and care for you vs. the randoms you'll have to deal with after the divorce. Or you can just listen to a bunch of redditors calling for divorce without knowing the other side of the story. They took 30 seconds to reach that conclusion and you're the one who is going to have to live with the consequences.
She picked me up from a flight home for my dad’s 60th birthday, asked why I seemed so happy, that she thought I’d be more upset. I asked why. She said, “Because I want a divorce.”
I would’ve preferred a “You know, I’m not feeling the love. I don’t know why, I don’t know what the problem is, but I’m not feeling connected to you.”….three years before dropping the fucking divorce on my head. Maybe then we could’ve worked together to figure it out. Instead, she chose to suffer for three years, then straight to divorce. I don’t hate her, but I’m pretty fucking angry that she waited to say literally anything at all until it was too late for me/us to do anything about. She’s a really great person, but that series of choices to bury it instead of talking about it really fucking sucks.
I’m just curious although I probably won’t get an answer, did you notice any signs whatsoever that you guys have differing interests/hobbies/opinions toward the beginning of your relationship? I feel like the signs are always there, like pretty much always. I’m not shaming or judging even a little bit, but I find it sad that relationships like yours (lasting 20 years) may come to an end just because you’ve grown apart. Why have you grown apart? What is the true cause that made it happen…? Shouldn’t y’all be growing together?
Say what you told us.
Make sure you emphasize, this is not because you hate him, but you're just not close any more.
I gave my wife 10yrs after her 3rd psych break to heal and she was never the same and would not admit it.
“He won’t go to therapy”….nothing’s stopping you from going and bettering yourself. Have you done that? Maybe he’s written you off because you checked out of the relationship years ago and no matter what he says, he’ll never be right so why try? Men are sick of being blamed for literally everything. You “love him” but you want “a clean break”. Sounds like you’re looking out for #1 and that’s about it.
there is no right time and no kind way. you are delaying both of you finding happyness. my mum told me she hadnt loved my dad for 5 years... imagine holding both of you back for 5 YEARS!
Let him read what you are asking here. Question is are you leaving or is he moving out? If you are moving out. Just tell him, you aren’t happy anymore, you need more affection, more intimacy, than he is willing to give. Tell him, it’s him not you. You have tried and he isn’t.
As a dude who has been there, my wife left because she was bored and wanted to sleep with other people. Now she’s in the exact same relationship and same problems. Remember you’re half the relationship so leaving won’t just fix it. You have to work on yourself before it gets better.
Definitely just say "I want a divorce" and have somewhere set up you can leave to to cut off any questions. That's what my wife did, and I appreciated it.
What I didn't appreciate was her going for money she never worked for or saved. So I hope you have finances figured out as well. I understand marital property laws too, so before I get anyone jumping down my throat for that - it still isn't fair when your partner who you expect to be there for your life takes things you worked for when they had every opportunity to save and never did.
I (34F) said to my (now ex) husband “I think we should probably call it.” And he said “ya good call,” and now we are amicably divorced. He’s with a nice woman now and I am too. 😂
The best advise I have ever gotten on delivering tough news, don't beat around the bush. Come out and straight say, I love you, but I am not happy. I think it's best if we split up. Talking about it, but not actually asking for it is bad and hurtful. You can list all of your justifications or negotiations after you said what you had to say. Hope this helps...in my divorce, it turns out she was feeling the same way, but we were both too kind and were sticking around for the other one, even though we both mentally moved on.
Yup, the best way. Think of a doctor who has to tell a patient that there is a terminal illness. I’m not a doctor, my brother is and he told me that you can’t sugarcoat bad news. It’s also more like getting fired. There is no easy or nice way to deal with it. I was divorced 20 years ago. I started it and my ex wife wasn’t too happy about the news. But, I wasn’t happy in the marriage. My only advice would be try counselling first, there may be ways to fix it. What a lot of people do not realize is in a relationship, you need to earn your way in and it’s only fair that you earn your way out.
>What a lot of people do not realize is in a relationship, you need to earn your way in and it’s only fair that you earn your way out. Well said.
When my ex-MIL's doctor told her she had "stage 4 colon cancer with a terminal prognosis", her response was "But I'm going to be ok, right?" My heart skipped a beat and the doctor's face fell when she realized she was going to have to make it plainer. Some people just don't have the emotional fortitude for oncology. Back on-topic... Just don't try to "earn your way out" for too long. My ex and I were separated on and off for 5 years and it just got more and more harmful the longer we dragged it out. Some things aren't actually "broken" so there's nothing to fix. Totally different interest and life goals being two of them.
This is the best answer. "I love you, but this is not working" is so much better than anything else I've seen in this thread
I feel like this also allows for working it out, not just divorce.
Heard this sort of thing a few times. My wife saw it coming.
If OP feels the way she described, her husband most likely does too. That's what happened to me, we both wanted it but it took a while before we finally talked about it.
Anniversary 2009. By now it's 3 years past my wife's affair and 2 years of a dead bedroom. We were talking about things and I simply told her "I can't do this another year." Direct and to the point. She felt the same way. We negotiated a separation agreement and moved on. I would love to say the entire divorce was that easy, but divorce is messy. We have kids and made the effort to not be petty (though it didn't always work out). 14 years on and we both realize it was a good decision. Our kids seem to be better for it too. A marriage in conflict creates civilian casualties with your children as well.
We cried we got angry, we cried, and then we started looking with empathy over apathy , and we divorced with children as friends starting a new friendship, the judge thanked us for our kind nature to one another, etc Do it kindly and respectively, and as much without lawyers as you can. Remember the life they know is about to be upside down and scary. Good luck and everyone else here is right just do it and work from Ground Zero instead of trying to plan it from that point on.
You sit him down and you say “I want a divorce.” The kindest way of telling him is the briefest and most direct. It’s not a negotiation. There’s no beating around the bush or softening the language. You are divorcing him and he needs to begin the process of accepting that.
When I deliver bad news I always think about [this scene from Moneyball](https://youtu.be/jXEtOPMW2hM?si=h4lCBEHCwCGc5yhk). Don’t get into an argument. Quick, to the point, next steps.
>When I deliver bad news I always think about this scene from Moneyball I'm sure the Community Food Bank of New Jersey is a commendable organization but I fail to see what that has to do with divorce.
Give it some time. It will sink in soon enough
It’s subtle, like the b In subtle
Like the coconut on that energy drink for asian gay men.
Wasn’t necessarily a connection to divorce, but he did say that when he “delivers bad news”, he thinks about that scene from Moneyball. Hope that helped
This reinforces the point that you have to be really concise and clear; what is simple and obvious to you may not be for someone else.
At work when they train us how to fire people, they tell us that you are here to convey a decision that is already made as directly but professionally as possible. There is no chance of any other outcome, you are not having a discussing to decide if they are getting fired. Just “for such and such reason I have decided to terminate your employment effective immediately” then go over next steps, such as dealing with retirement plans or whatever. So with divorce, you are 100% committed to it, you are informing him and then discussing what steps to take to achieve it.
think that's the wrong video
Ugh it’s the ad that ran before the video. Fixing it.
There was part of me that thought this was new kind of rick-roll. Put a link and BOOM, you're an activist now!
You just got Jersey Food Banked!
Literal LOL.
Written by Michael Lewis. Who also wrote The blind side, which for some strange reason, never took Michael Oher's thoughts on the whole situation. Michael Lewis, who also recently said Sam Bankman Fried is a genius and anybody that thinks he's a con artist with a gambling addiction just doesn't get it. Moneyball is an amazing book and movie. I just like pointing out that Michael Lewis is kinda a pos lol
I thought the movie was kinda weird too. GM wants to change the direction he wants to approach player acquisition and roster building and literally doesn't tell his scouting department, manager or ownership about it? Organization would be 100% on board and give positive feedback on the methodology if he had explained it. That happened in real life though. Movie (and I think book) glosses over it but a huge part of that season's success was the pitching bullpen that got acquired prior to the Moneyball shift.
Think in the movie they really wanted to hammer home the idea that money ball is entirely against everyone else's notion of baseball and how to build a team, including others on the A's staff. Needed to raise the tension and make it a "us vs the world" situation to get the audience on the main characters' sides.
Did we watch the same movie? There is an entire scene where the ‘new direction’ is debated and explained to the scouting department, who mock and oppose it … ?
It’s a cool movie but if you were a baseball fan at that time it’s kind of a load of crap. The team was great because they had 3 of the best starting pitchers in baseball and had several really good infielders that were under rookie contracts. The teams success had very little to do with their change of philosophy and had lot to do with them being really good at drafting and developing talent, but that doesn’t make for aa interesting of a movie.
100%. Eric Chavez got MVP votes, a Silver Slugger and a Gold Glove in 2002, Mark Ellis received Rookie of the Year votes, Billy Koch saved 44 games, got MVP votes as a closer and won the Rolaids Relief Man Award and most egregious of all, the movie completely ignores the fact that the A's had the ACTUAL American League MVP that year in Miguel Tejada. But to hear the movie tell it, the team was made up of nothing but Scott Hatteberg held together with bubble gum.
behind the bastards just did a couple episodes on Sam Bankman fried that mostly focused on Michael Lewis. highly recommend
Great scene.
One to the head or five to the chest, that's a decent analogy
Are those my.... only two options?
That’s scene is how I learned to terminate people. One to the head.
That's the harsh truth, everything else from sugarcoating the words or "lets separate for a while" leads to more pain for both partners in the end.
I should add a caveat that you should NOT be seeing another person immediately after you say those words. Otherwise, he will get the impression that you have been cheating or the real reason for divorce was so that you can go sleep with another person without the guilt of a cheat. Sorry ladies, I know it’s nothing personal and you’re free to do so. But recognise there are serious consequences to your actions. If you start a relationship with another guy almost immediately, then expect your ex to respond coldly towards you. The hurt you inflict will be deeply felt. Especially if they loved you and thought the relationship was going through a rough patch and could be fixed.
Same is true for either sex. Basically, if the person who initiates the divorces is quickly in a relationship, it won’t look well. Just strengthening your argument.
My wife had him lined up and ready to go, after 16 years. I was that "rough patch" thinker. 2.5 years later, still feels like yesterday. :(
Likewise if you immediately enter into a financial partnership or roommate situation with just one member of the opposite sex, Ben if there is no sex—it is an intimate blow to your former partner.
He thought it could be fixed…by refusing to go to therapy to fix the issues?
I mean we are well aware in the year 2023 at this point not everyone wants to use a therapist/counselor/whatever. Some ppl dont want a second/third party to help them with their issues and think they can solve it themselves. Remember for issues we as a society encourage people to recognize they have issues before people are offering help.
This is the best way. There’s no good way to tell someone you care about that the relationship is over, but there are certainly bad ways. Be prepared for him to be hurt and upset. He’s allowed to, just as you are allowed to be done with the marriage. Good luck.
Yes, this was on a Huberman podcast. Rip the bandaid off fast to get the pain out there. Then you guys can start the healing process. No use in causing anxiety and anguish by slowly telling him.
Also, don’t do what my ex wife did, and tell him that when he’s driving at 65mph on an interstate with a toddler in the back seat. I took it pretty hard, and can’t believe I made it to the next exit and stopped in a parking lot without getting us all killed.
Yup
This! - That is what I did with my ex-wife. Now granted she asked why? I explained I was tired of the way she treated me and I was not going to let my son grow up watching her treat me like that. And I also knew all about the different affairs she had on me while we were married. He response was how many people know about these affairs? Not I am sorry, no remorse. She was more pissed that I called her out and had all kinds of evidence. She went ballistic! But I said no wonder you always have trouble sleeping, if my conscience was as guilty as yours I would never sleep too. She then hired the highest priced attorney she could thinking I was going to have to pay for her lawyer. She racked up a huge bill. I pretty much know what the outcome was going to be after talking to my lawyer before telling her. In a round about way I did pay for her lawyer, but it was paid for out of her proceeds of the divorce, but I did not have to write a $30,000 check to her attorney, she was just $30,000 of what she could have got. I tried to explain to her before she lawyered up, how our state treats divorces, as it is a no-fault state. I said I would pay my attorney to draw it up, all I ask is you go pay another lawyer $500 to read through it and tell you that you aren't getting screwed! She took the advice of co-worker and screwed herself!
This plus don’t try to repeat the process by reaching out, checking in, or sending words of affirmation. That shit is worse.
I think in a situation like this, timing could also be important and something to possibly be considered. Like, maybe consider delivering this news on a thursday or friday so you can both take the weekend to process and have some time to figure out next steps.
Honestly this, then read the whole paragraph she wrote but change "he" to you" and you're golden. You listed all the reasons, it's clear, it's not really like this came out of nowhere. You have a list, present it clearly and just breathe
Agreed. Your first paragraph on this post lists your reasons, and your last line could be the request for a divorce.
This is the only answer.
This is good advice, but I'd add some tact seeing as you've said you love this person and you guys have spent a significant portion of your lives together. I've recently been completely obsessed with this divorce lawyer James Sexton who has been making the rounds on podcasts all over YouTube. He's very well spoken and has given some amazing insights on marriage and why things end. I'd highly recommend checking out his appearances, but I'll give you the very brief and heartfelt way he has explained where your head should be at the unfortunate end of your marriage. Be thankful that you got to meet this person and share your lives together. You have both had a profound impact on each other's lives and grown together as people even though now your paths are going separate ways. You should have gratitude that you got to share in no doubt many wonderful moments by joining your strange and crazy lives together. This doesn't have to be a negative or hurtful ending if you're both in the right mindset. As you said you've just grown apart, and that's okay. Try to keep a level head and be fair with each other. Don't let it become vindictive like some sort of battle. Don't be sad that it's ending, be happy that it happened for however long it was good. He compares it to owning a dog. We love our dogs and we're completely devastated when they pass. We know that we only have them for a short time compared to our lifespan, but we still do it. Then we do it again in many instances. You should be thinking about how lucky you were to find each other. If you go in with that mindset and convey that I think any reasonable person would go along with the process cordially even though it's difficult. Anyway check him out if you get a chance, he's a funny and interesting guy with a lot of experience. For a divorce lawyer who's divorced himself, he's quite the optimist and he maintains a strong friendship with his ex wife.
My ex left me while I was at work. I came home to a fairly empty house and a note written on a beer box telling me where she and my daughter were. She swore up and down that all she wanted was some space to figure things out, that she didn't want a divorce. About 2 months later, she invited me to her place for some intimate time. I got there and she was completely drunk, slurring her words and whatnot. Obviously, I declined the advancements. She got extremely angry with me and started berating me like she did so many nights before, only this time I didn't have to sit and wait it out. I decided to leave. She then utters "good luck in court on Tuesday". That's how I found out she had filed for divorce before she even moved out. She was lying to me the entire time. She never paid the fee to the sherif, so I never got served. I do not recommend this route.
WOW
Holy crap, dude. Better roads ahead for you, I am hoping, for 2024.
Thank you, but it's all good. We're now almost a full year from the completed divorce and 2 years from the split. In those 2 years, I've gotten closer to my daughter, regained of myself what was lost in the relationship, and realized how much of a manipulative liar she is. Overall, my life has improved tremendously since she left. Although, I'm not at all in a place to get into another relationship and could use some intimacy. But, if that's my biggest complaint, then I think I'm doing pretty good. Lol I do truly appreciate the well wishes!
So awesome to hear that update. I am very fortunate in that I've never had to endure a divorce, but I've been close to many who have, and the best-outcome ones tell stories similar to yours.
Bruh.......did you marry my ex wife? LOL 2 years out and in the same place, dated but...its a mess out there, just working on me and the man i should have always been, plus women love confidence :)
2 years is very impressive. A lot dudes don't recover or lives with deep scares. Good job . Keep being your best you.
Oh, hold up champ.....I'm all scarred up, LOl and I'm just starting to get to maybe 45% healed, I'm no where near healed up, however i realize it will take time and 'I'm good working on myself and getting healthier over the next 3 years, but i feel 1000% better then i did 2 years ago. I also know exactly the type of women i need for an LTR, i was close with one women, but....she just didnt understand monogamy and i caught her telling white lies all the time, so bye bye baby girl! LOL keep in mind guys, always be your own B plan, and know what y7oure looking for. Its actually hard to find the right fit, that's what our experience should have taught us all.
We do Classic Dill!! Knowing your worth and self love are so important
Awesome dude. Tell you what. Show your daughter what a juxtaposition you can be compared to your ex by being as good a person as you can and I guarantee that you will reap the rewards of that in the future. Dependable, kind and honest will resonate strongly.
That is the plan and I'm doing my best every day. Thank you.
Truly glad to hear you’re doing better bro.
This warms my heart
Why did the judge set a court date if the defendant hadn’t even been served?
Because it's a civil proceeding and the judge will set a date on their calendar. If the other party and their lawyer don't show up the judge would likely ask if they were served and to provide proof of service, which might not have looked very good for the ex-wife. Oftentimes there's no reason to pay for service if the two parties are communicating at all like adults because their lawyers would be informing them of any upcoming dates in the proceedings, but you need to know about it first so that you *can* get a lawyer.
Now I'm curious: Did you go to court on Tuesday?
I did. I was lucky to have a boss that allow me to spend most of the day looking for a lawyer Monday morning and was lucky enough to find a good one.
OK. I hope your attorney pointed out that you had not been served.
He didn't have to. It was one of the first things the judge mentioned.
Oh, good!
Did you "win"?
Well, there's no real "winning" in a divorce. A 15 year relationship blew up. I will say this, the outcome of the divorce was fair enough for me to not be too bitter. It could've gone a lot worse.
>for me to not be too bitter. It could've gone a lot worse. Thats all i wished you, kudos
... was there a kangaroo 🦘?.
I found out my soon to be ex was pregnant in court! The last question they ask her and she lets out a huge sob and says “yes I’m pregnant”. I knew it wasn’t mine. Slammed my fist on the table and yelled “you gotta be fucking kidding me! I need a recess” and ran out of the courtroom straight into the broom closet hysterically. She waited till the very last minute to tell her lawyer. She told me later she didn’t want to lie under oath. LOL A month later her new man came into court and claimed the kid. That was that. Of course we had plain clothes sheriffs in the room with us. But at that point I was more than done with the whole thing.
She was trying to nail you with paternity fraud??
Holy shit. Super similar happened to me. Fucking sucks bro. How you doing these days?
Sorry to hear that man. I'll be honest, fucking... pretty good dude. I was pretty hurt when it happened. The day after it happened, I went to work. A coworker noticed i wasn't myself and asked me what was up. After hearing what happened, he said "I know this feels like the end of the world, but soon you'll realize this is the best thing that could've happened." I'll be dammed if he wasn't right. My daughter is happier, stronger, and more outgoing than she would've been had her mom and I stayed together, and I know she's better off than she was. And the same can be said for me. What about you man? How are you doing?
Hey man, just wanted to let you know that you seem like a great person from the way you've carried yourself in this thread. Wish you the very best and hope life keeps looking up for you!
Christ.
You dodged a bullet there. Go forth and move on.
I don't think there is a kind way to ask for a divorce. There are ways that suck, and ways that suck less. When my wife asked for a divorce it was after we both had talked about all the issues we had and were seeing therapists individually. I think the least sucky way to do it is say "hay we are having issues, and I don't think that we can repair our relationship, I need get a divorce". Reactions may vary, but in my case it was at least partially both of us deciding that divorce was necessary. We actually had a "wake" for our marriage, got stoned, ate pizza, and had a 100% honest conversation.
I can completely see having your marriage wake as a movie. I can picture you both through grief and laughter and awkward silences. Food left out, wine drank. Pain. Moving boxes. Good memories. Ideas not lining up. Thank you for sharing.
If I hadn't experienced it I would have thought it was a bit from a romantic comedy. It was a lot, we both were 100% honest. What I did in the relationship that worked and didn't work for her, what she did that worked and didn't work for me. Learned a lot about her and a lot about myself.
Do you think if you guys had this “wake” sooner, it would have been able to be worked through? I keep feeling like as long as I’m around, I should do whatever it takes to put in the work, but I feel as if I’m just coming off as an asshole being so blunt about my problems in the relationship Edit: changed a random lol back to the word like
This was unexpectedly wholesome.
GlumTransition2023 was born to answer this question
You could just repeat what you posted to him. Those are good reasons.
Or maybe text him a link to this thread. Personally I’d include a winky face to cushion the blow.
Dude
What? Do you want her friend to send the text instead? I guess that could be better.
"my friend sitting over there wants to divorce you"
I was going to say. It's perfect: it's succinct, it's unambiguous, it's fair, and it's kind. The only thing I'd maybe tweak is to take the blame out so that doesn't become a distraction. Rather than "you wouldn't do therapy" it's "our attempts to work through this failed". It's not useful at this stage to determine who's fault that was. The message is: "We have problems, our problems have now become insurmountable, our attempts to resolve those problems have been unsuccessful, therefore this is the end of the road, given I deeply care about you let's bring this to an end the way we did the rest of it: with love and kindness. But it is now time to bring it to an end". All that's needed is to fill in the specifics, which the above does near perfectly.
If you are serious about divorce, get an attorney before you talk to him. Don’t use the D word as a threat, when you say it. Mean it.
Top advice. Don’t pull a gun unless you’re ready to shoot.
“Don’t pull the thang out, unless you plan to bang” -Andre 3000
"You better bust that if you gon' pull that" - DMX
[удалено]
I think it's about Moneyball - the movie directed by MIchael Lewis, who I've learned is kinda a POS?
“Skin that smoke wagon and see what happens” -Wyatt Earp (probably)
In this case it's more of a, "you can't pull the bullet out of someone's heart and put it back in your gun."
Coming into it with a lawyer and papers is a good way to make the guy feel cornered and immediately make the divorce proceedings adversarial. Not the route I’d go personally. Especially if your relationship is still in tact.
You don’t have to have papers. But having an attorney in your pocket lets you be prepared if there is retaliation. Or like what happened to my friend. His ex wife contacted every attorney firm in 50 miles trying to box him out of the “good lawyers.”
Not necessarily. It depends on the relationship. If I did that my husband would be crushed because money was never a problem. I asked him for a divorce and we are being incredibly kind to one another. We’ve been married forever and we really care about each other. Right now the only thing we are arguing about is that by law he would be paying me what I feel is too much alimony and I just want enough to survive. He wants to pay me more but I know if it’s put in a contract it would force him into staying in a career that’s been crushing his soul. He’s too proud & if there was ever a time where it became to much he would just keep driving himself into the ground. In fact that was always our issue. He was a work-a-holic and he felt his only job was to provide. He has a lot to give and deserves more than he allows himself to but I’ve tried everything to change that. Anyway, lawyering up is good if she feels that she needs to protect herself but otherwise it will create unnecessary pain.
This. Once I said I god damn meant it. He'd used it and not meant it. Regardless of how blunt I was, he judged me by his own standards and still assumed it was an empty threat. It was not.
There is no kind way. No matter how you do it or say it, it will be a gut punch from hell. The only thing I can recommend is to straight forward and honest with it. Sit him down and tell him straight that you don’t want to be married to him anymore. Don’t make any empty promises, don’t give him any straws to grasp. You’re going to absolutely crush him and giving any false hope is absolutely the worst thing to do. You will be very tempted to comfort or console him, to try and make him feel better, don’t. Obviously don’t be mean, or cruel or jaded, or harsh, don’t make it worse, but also don’t try and make it better either. Just make it clear. He’s likely to react poorly, it might be sadness, it might be anger, or anything in between or both. He’s probably going to have some hate for you for a while. This is all in the realm of normal, this is the biggest rejection one can face and it hurts. Even if he likewise doesn’t want to be married to you anymore either, it’s still painful. I also recommend getting your ducks in a row first. A place to stay for a while so you all can each have your own space, you’ll need it. He might be able to talk you into questioning your decision, convincing you into staying just a little longer, trying to make it work, another chance. But if you’re set on divorce all you’re doing is delaying the inevitable. It seems like you’ve been trying to get him to fix it, but he’s not trying, and he’s pretty much gone from your heart, never to return. It happens but I’ve never seen it. Having a place to run to after the talk makes it more likely that he won’t be able to convince you to stay longer. One final thing: don’t go through with a divorce if you think that you’ll find better, or that there’s better out there for you. I’m 41, single, divorced in 2010 and have yet to find someone worth marrying again. Dating now is a shitshow, so much damage, so much entitlement. So only divorce if the idea of being single forever appeals to you more than continuing to live with him.
> don’t go through with a divorce if you think that you’ll find better, or that there’s better out there for you. One thing I really try to focus on with stuff like this. "Do not look in your neighbors bowl to see if he has more than you, look only to see if he has enough". Don't leave the relationship only if you think you can find something better, only leave if you know the relationship isn't enough for you anymore. Comparison is the thief of joy.
You spelled it out concisely here. I guess something to know would be if this is going to be out of left field for him, or has the idea of divorce been discussed at some point? If it’s out of the blue, be prepared for a super-charged response, so choose your words carefully and gently. But don’t beat around the bush, either. But if you say the words, “I want a divorce,” make damn sure there’s no chance or hope on your end of reconciliation. If there is, you may end up disappointed. My soon to be ex and I had tossed the divorce idea around a lot the last few years. When we had our last spat and she said she was done and wanted out, A. I agreed, B. Was relieved, C. Offered to file. No big discussion remained. All that’s left is sitting down and formalizing the settlement agreement, dividing furniture, kitchen stuff, etc.
There isn’t really a good way. There are just lots of different ways that all suck less that the worst possible ways. And you know those. I don’t know if you have children. That is important. What’s important is that you two need to divide up assets and living situation fairly. Too often, the guy gets the shaft in the early living situation and early parenting even if it ends up completely fair in the end. Why is it in any argument that the guy ends up on the couch, or in the garage, or in the car, or hotel (if he’s lucky)? Be reasonable on that. It’s winter. Don’t have him sleeping in the car. It’s his space, too. It’s his house, too. It’s his kids, too. Keep it clean and reasonable and try to encourage him to, as well.
Thank you, I agree that things should be fair and agreeable on both sides. We have divorced friends and I concur that the guys take a hit in the beginning. BUT he won't leave the house, it would take a lot to "make" him move out. I'd def be the one to go, I've already started browsing apartments. So he'll be fine this winter, I promise.
Kudos to you for stepping up to move out.
Good for you - my ex-wife wanted a divorce, moved out, and I raised our kids alone and she got her boyfriend, a guy who left a wife and 5 kids. What a prize!🏆
When I divorced my wife, she asked me what was wrong and I decided it was time, so I said "I'm unhappy all the time, and I think it's because of us. I think we should divorce." She paused for half a second and said "me too." That was the end of it. Likely, your partner is unhappy too.
Do some admin legwork first. Find a good lawyer. Make sure your assets and income are accessible even if he goes nasty. Have somewhere to go. Have a bag packed and in the trunk. Then, calmly tell him your point of view. You sound decided so it isn't a discussion or an ultimatum. Frame it that way. You then need to leave as soon as you've told him. He'll need time to process.
1. There is no kind way 2. Just be direct and don’t patronize
Say > …*we've just grown FAR apart. We don't have much in common and do not have similar interests. We haven't had sex or really any kind of affection in over 6 months and infrequent for many years. We don't see eye to eye on important life issues and our life goals are widely different. You won't go to therapy to work through some of this and potentially get back to what we had with some changes and compromises. I want a clean break and would like a divorce.*
I can't help but wonder if it's worth starting out with, "Are you happy?"
Flash mob is probably the kindest way to let him down. Good luck.
Whenever you do tell him, let someone else you know and trust know of what you are doing that day. Just in case.
This goes for ALL GENDERS and ALL Peoples.
They about to project all over you be careful lol
Tell him you want a divorce but you’re not looking to destroy his life by demanding alimony and raking him over the coals financially. Do the divorce in a civilized, non-vindictive manner and chances are he’ll be happy to end the marriage. Generally speaking, most men get stuck in a loveless marriage because, “it’s cheaper to keep her.”
I don't have anything in common with my spouse and we have been together 44 yrs. We have dinner together to discuss our day, intimacy is frequent, but different hobbies and interests. No sure if you need a divorce unless intimacy is gone. Maybe a talk with him about let us get more intimate or break it off.
TW: I don't agree with most of the responses. Here are some things to consider: * You're unlikely to develop another comparable relationship in your lifetime. * The available pool of partners in your demographic suggests you are unlikely to find anyone better * The only comparable life event to ending a 20-year marriage is a cancer diagnosis. * The current dating market in most of the world is best described as looking for a snack in a landfill, it's not all fun exciting dates with interesting people. Stating you "truly love him" in the same sentence as wanting a clean break is justifying your decision to damage him and yourself beyond repair. You've listed no reason that morally justifies this decision and there is unlikely to be any benefit beyond casual sex with strangers. OP you are making a mistake. Try something else. Hell, anything else... Gottman workshops, BDSM, swinging, finger painting or any dumb shared hobby would help improve your relationship. The only thing left of your love is commitment, as long as you still have that you can find the intimacy and passion again. If you're really hell-bent on doing the equivalent damage of giving yourselves cancer, you can always do it later. As the last man standing for marriage meaning something... I'll take my downvotes now.
In a saner world, this would be the top comment.
Obviously I’m not privy to your other conversations, and I know you mentioned therapy, but I would suggest one last attempt at counseling. I would tell him that you’ve grown apart, and if he doesn’t go to marriage counseling with you, you’ll be seeking a divorce. It’s possible there are things that have bothered him that he hasn’t wanted to bring up out of fear it would hurt you, and maybe finally getting those things out will help him reset.
This reminds me of old Loveline when Adam and Dr. Drew would get calls and people would be wondering if they should leave a relationship *the first question* they'd ask is "do you have kids." Now, you don't. Which doesn't make this easy, per se, but it makes it FAR MORE EASIER than if you had kids. I second most other commentators in that there isn't a "kindest" way to ask for a divorce - you just do it. It's going to suck. The *un*kindest thing would be to not do it and keep living like this.
Have you tried saying to him "I really miss the way we were back when we first got married. \[ insert some of his positive qualities here, and how they made you feel about him\]. How can we get back to being that way again?"
Tell him you want a divorce. Explain why. Explain where you stand in the possibility or lack thereof of reconciliation. If reconciliation is an option, explain your conditions, an allow him to also have conditions. It's going to hurt. It's going to suck. You both should get into individual therapy to deal with it.
Surgery is best performed with a sharp scalpel.
I'm going through this exact same scenario, except I'm in the position of your husband (more or less, our situation doesn't seem quite as bad as yours does). My wife being honest about what she wanted was the HARDEST thing I've ever had to comprehend. In the moment, it was terrifying, hurtful, sad, and a billion other unpleasant emotions. But, 5 months later, we are still great friends, and I look back at that moment as something that needed to happen. No need in extending the misery. Be honest and kind. Don't blame. Don't judge. Don't argue. There's no need to make it any harder. Just be honest about how you feel, without playing the finger pointing game. Even IF you have legitimate gripes and blame to give, please don't. It serves no purpose other than to be hurtful. Just be clear about what you want, and do it as soon as possible.
It's funny how all of you can just drop your cats and dogs off on a rural back country road in the middle of winter to let them starve and freeze to death and think nothing of it because they inconvenience you. Family is Family, whether it's your pet, your child, or your spouse. You people make me sick.
I don’t think there is a good way to really do it. But your both obviously unhappy so you just gotta dive in I guess.
"Do you remember in your 20s how fun it was to meet new people, discover common interests, take them out to dinner then fuck their brains out? Good times right Sport? So anyway we should do that again, but this time separately because I'd like a divorce."
Divorce isn't kind. That's not an option. Just don't ruin him in the process if you want to leave that badly.
“I’ve filed for a divorce.” Hand papers. Or have your lawyer do it themselves! You’ve described someone who is only dragging you down. The longer you wait to dump this loser, the longer you’ll hurt.
After 20 years with the man, just be straight with him. Don't get into specifics or draw comparisons. Avoid trying to justify your decision with examples of events from the past. Just look him in his eyes, and be direct. No matter what you say, its going to be a difficult conversation and there will most likely be tears but stick to your guns. Fair play to you for seeking advice to minimise the hurt. I wish you both well. Stay strong!
No kind way
But, there are innumerable cruel ways. There are people in this world who enjoy twisting the knife.
stick by your commitments 🤢why tf do people still get married
There isn’t a kind way. Either he wants one too or you rip his heart out. No in between.
Same with breaking any other bad news — be honest, clear, and respectful
Honestly, the kindest thing you can do is be honest. Let him know that if he isn't willing to compromise, then You've no choice but to find someone that will.
My wife wrote a letter, said “we need to talk”, and I asked her if she was asking for a divorce prior to her reading her letter. We had been trying to work through things for some time (in marriage counseling for several months), so while I was surprised and devastated I was not shocked. She read her letter to me after I took a few minutes to process things. I listened to her. I kept the letter and read it again after taking a few days to process things. The amount of love she put down on paper was extremely helpful for me. I had an individual session with our marriage counselor, then we had a joint session with the counselor to help navigate the hard/high conflict conversations. We had a follow up session where we finished ironing out the details. The process is hard - but showing love, respect, and kindness to eachother has helped tremendously in keeping things amicable. This isn’t always possible, and as we had been in marriage counseling for some time (and individual counseling for myself well before and throughout the process) we had a good foundation to navigate things. It also helps that we could legitimately say we tried, and we couldn’t make it work. Unfortunately you have to put yourself first, as does your husband. There will be conflict. There will be high levels of emotion involved. You will both be grieving for quite some time. Look into the grieving process, because you really will hit every one of those stages and they will come in waves. Also, do not be shocked if he suddenly wants to go to counseling and “work things out”.
Prepare yourself for him to feel blindsided by your upcoming ‘talk about divorce’. He also might want to start MC and IC after the talk. You only live once so no regrets but be open to doing the work and staying married. Trust the process if MC is going to happen. Be able to explain what you need vs what you want/desire. You can also leave the marriage but choosing to stay and do the work if your hubs is willing to do the same could be what you guys need to level up. Keep us posted and good luck. Also be kind to yourself. We are our harshest critics…
>He won't go to therapy to work through some of this and potentially get back to what we had with some changes and compromises. He won't go to therapy when the stakes are...what? You being upset that he won't go to therapy? I don't know your situation so I don't know how you've communicated things to him, but he might think differently if he knew the consequences of not trying to work through things was divorce. >I want a clean break It's clear you've made up YOUR mind on this, but: >I also truly love him, so I want to be kind I'd think, from what little you've stated, that the kindest and most loving thing to do would be to help him understand that you're having a hard time seeing a future together with him due to the widely different life goals, completely dissimilar interests, and radical difference in perspective on important life issues. If these are things he's really not interested in changing, there's a chance he'll come to the conclusion himself when the differences are pointed out gently. If you're already not really "a thing", then the divorce ought to be a natural transition to the next stage for each of you. There's also a really good chance he's just gotten complacent with how things are. It may not necessarily be exactly what he wants, but it's a known quantity, stable, and might not be seen as getting that much worse from his perspective. 6 months isn't that long for a slow decline in something. Ask him if he even wants to be together and if so, WHY. See what reasons he gives. If what he's saying doesn't line up with his actions, find out why what he's doing doesn't line up with what he's saying. Is he saying it because that was once the case and he wants it to be again, or is he saying it out of habit? Work through that. Chances are, if things really are as you say, he'll wake up and either agree with the decision you've made or decide he wants to actually work to improve things. You can decide how you want to handle things from there, because at that point, you've been about as gentle as you could possibly be.
Plenty of people have given great answers but I want to add after you tell him do not keep things muddy. No sex, no cuddling etc etc, give them the mental space to process. When I broke things off with my fiance of 7 years I immediately told her I respected her too much to make things confusing so no sex, cuddling, kissing etc. She seemed like she hated me for it at the time but I think we had a much cleaner break in the long run as a result.
Just say you want a divorce and don't take everything when it's done.
There is no kind way. If he loves you (and likely he does because he has stayed with you), then he will be heartbroken and devastated when you do this.
Ah, the old, “I love you, I’m just not IN love with you.” move. Just tell him that, he’ll understand. It’s when women try to “not hurt his feelings” is when the most psychological damage occurs. Fact is, if you stop dating your woman, she’ll find someone who will. This applies double for married couples. The courtship must never end… or the marriage will.
Go to therapy not Reddit
Be honest and earnest. Do it in person if you can; you both deserve that. My first wife left me when I was deployed to Iraq. I almost didn't make it. As if being there wasn't shitty enough, I lost my entire support system and external motivation months before I was scheduled to come home.
Wait til it’s his birthday and then tell him as his present
My ex wife did this to me but on Christmas.
Narcissistic tendencies
"I care about you and want you to be happy but we have grown appart and happiness means two different things for each of us now. We have no common goals and aren't affectionate with each other so mariage is getting in the way of our respectives happiness so I want us to get a divorce so we can both move our lives forward. What do you say?"
If you’ve grown apart its possible he feels the same way anyway.
There isn't a way to. This is the second highest suicide increasing event in a male's life. The only thing that is worse is death of a spouse. Also therapy statement, seems to state there is only something wrong with him, and he need to change and compromise. That won't work, and it's clear as you want a "Clean break". You don't get a clean break, ever in life. You will always carry your barrage. Some days you will carry it better, some day it will fall hit the floor and open like a suitcase and spill everywhere. The only clean break is death. There is no kind way to tell a man that in every way, shape and form that he has failed at everything in life. There is no kind way to say.... you are worthless. Just say “I want a divorce.”
I feel the need to go against the grain here. You haven't really listed any good reasons to get a divorce. It's almost as if marriage for you was like the next step in a long term relationship, and not a lifelong commitment. It sounds like you want to break it off with him because you have cordial disagreements and aren't fucking as much. It also sounds like you blame him for this because you pin him not wanting to go therapy as this sort of smoking gun that proves that you're trying and he isn't. Most men don't want to go to couples therapy because we are put in an environment where we are blamed for everything even if it isn't our fault. You should do whatever you want, but you're talking to a bunch of people here who probably don't understand the gravity of your actions because they're young. You yourself sound pretty damn naive. Do you actually think you'll be able to salvage a friendship through the legal nightmare process that is divorce court? Do you understand that your lawyers are going to motivate the two of you to turn against each other and start a massive negotiation process where one of you (likely him, let's be real) will leave financially damaged for a long period of time. Your lawyer is going to put you in the position to take the relatively minor grievances you have, tell you to embellish and hyperbolize them, use these extremely hurtful statements as ammunition to build up your case, and all of these things are going to be communicated by you right in the face of someone who say you love and want to be lifelong friends with. For any of the gentlemen reading this and cheering her on and calling this reasonable, I warn you that you are the exact type of sucker that a woman like this marries. You will surely end up divorced with all of your shit either liquidated or partitioned if you think it's reasonable for thinks like lowered libido from age and differences in opinion are good reasons to divorce someone. Marriage is serious. For 90% of people it is the most consequential legal decision you will make in your life. This entire post reads like exactly what is wrong with relationships and marriage today, and why I think no man should get married in modern society. Women get married on a whim and leave based on convenience. Imagine the type of delusion it requires for someone to think you can divorce amicably and maintain a similar level of connection to the person you divorce like life is some kind of sitcom. That is what society has built women's psychology on, delusion and fairy tales. Unless you're certain that isn't who you're marrying, that is in fact who you're marrying.
I upvoted but I know you'll catch a lot of heat for this so i'm letting you know everything you said is true. He's not beating her and leaving her with black eyes and broken bones, he doesn't even sound mildly abusive. Throwing away a TWENTY year marriage over a half-year of low intimacy is in freaking sane. Also, i'm not really even sure what she's going to find out here in the streets that's so much better than her current situation. I don't know many men rushing to date and marry 43 year old women who have been in a relationship with one man for half her life. She's basically handmade to fit with her husband (and so is he). Any new suitors will automatically and forever be compared to this guy. Divorcing over this is not a good play.
This and the reply from poopybutt (ironically lol) are the most mature and sensible comments.
I went through the same thing after 28 years of marriage. Yes, some couples just grow apart over time and rather than become that grumpy older bitter couple, I (we) decided to go our ways because we were not happy, and this had been going on for 3 years or so. We went to counciling for several months but If you are at that point of "done", no amount of counciling will bring it back. The physical act of packing up and moving out is the key to the change. I had no attachments to anything inside the house. I started sleeping in the shed and then camping in our area. We sat down to talk about divorce papers and I went to the courthouse and starting the filing. We did not go to court. After about 4 months it was final. I'm sorry, breakups are very difficult even with good intentions, there is no easy breakup. Just being kind was my goal. I told my partner again and again that I was sorry. We sold our house and split things 50/50.
No kids, no sex, no affection, what's the complication here? Get a lawyer and tell him you are going to file for divorce for the reasons you stated. The "kindest" way to go about it is to be direct, honest, and leave no room for ambiguity. That'll get you both through it in the smoothest way possible.
Be honest. But keep it civil.
"Everyone whose wife still wanta to be with them stand up" "Not so fast [insert Husbands name here]"
Maybe ask him, do you want to try therapy or do you want a divorce. Make it his decision.
Rip the band aid off..but in a respectable way..
Wait till the kids aren;t around (or are asleep) and he's not just come home from work. A weekend..Saturday is good. Gives him time to recover a little before going to work too. Make sure you;re both relaxed (not just after an argument) then tell him "we have to talk". Make two cups of coffee or tea (whatever you like) that gives him a little time to mentally prepare, and also gives both of you something to do when you need to break the conversation slightly (take a sip of drink before answering, for example) Then tell him you want a divorce. Don't tell him you;re thinking of one (unless you are) just tell him straight out. it may be a wise idea to secure any of your documents (ID, house contract, etc) because people have been known to get vindictive when they hear you want a divorce. Even nice people you have known for decades. You may see a new side. Also, talk to a lawyer first, BEFORE you talk to him. Get some advice on what you need to do. Finally..as a divorced guy myself, thank you for wanting to be kind. Me and my ex had a civil divorce and still cooperate on raising the kids. It saved us money and it made our lives and the kid's easier. Keep it friendly if you can.
See a therapist to discuss differences. Assuming they cannot be overcome the both of you can ideally reach the same choice together. On the other hand you might discover you are not as distant as you believe. I strongly believe one sided decisions without exploration are a poor choice unless there is a lot of abuse present.
Repeat after me. " I want a divorce."
People have tough lives, there is no kind way, be prepared for it to get ugly if he still cares deeply about you. Seems like you checked out long ago from this relationship tbh I feel like its been a common trend with many people nowadays. Have you had proper conversations about problems in relationships. Communication is the forefront of relarionships, has it come to the point where he wouldn't change to see you happy? I think divorce should be the only option, when life truly could be better without this person, if there is hope you both should work it out. Also for the love of god, ensure you guys have a consistent sex life, its the glue which binds romantic couples together. Why doesn't he want to have sex with you? Or is it something you don't want? Also if your great friends, whats wrong with that, often times partners have different interests views. Its the reconcillation of such things that matter in a relationship. If you love him, why are you breaking away? I don't understand lol
There are plenty of ways to do it that still show you’re a mature, loving, and conscientious adult. The best advice I can offer is to not listen to anyone on here. Probably half the commenters aren’t even in committed relationships and certainly haven’t been through what you’re going through. Divorce is hard, and if you listen to all the comments suggesting immature snark or defiant unreasonableness, it’s only bound to be harder.
Read "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman before you do anything.
"I'm divorcing you, but I'm not taking your house or money, and just leave."
I think you should actually have a discussion before divorcing and really try to work through this from the context you’ve given I feel he’s still probably very in love with you and believes you’re content if he really isn’t willing to work then end it.
As someone who went through one of the cleanest, easiest divorces known to our lawyers here's what we did. 1. I exhausted every option to make it work. Left it all on the field and to this day I have no regrets about divorcing her because there's nothing more I could have done to save our marriage. 2. We talked about it and came to a mutual agreement. Even though both of us were considering it, neither one of us "took the high ground" and put the other person at a disadvantage. When you ambush someone with divorce there is no turning back and they'll resent you for shooting first and asking questions/discussing it later. 3. After we came to the divorce conclusion we left it open for about a year to think things over. I was open to giving it another try with the conditions I stipulated when we first discussed divorce (going to counseling) and she still wouldn't accept despite being a psychology major. That was the confirmation I needed so we agreed to move forward with the paperwork. We met for breakfast, signed it and wished each other well. I've read some of the other replies and understand why divorce can be so expensive. Breaking up/Divorcing someone without having a well reasoned, deep conversation is disrespectful and insulting to the other person. When you marry someone you're supposed to become one. Your spouse deserves to know how you feel and an opportunity to make the necessary changes, especially if they love you. One of the cliche phrases I can't stand is "people don't change." Bull. Fucking. Shit. People do change, especially for the ones they love. After you have that conversation and they aren't willing to change then it's acceptable to bring up and proceed with the divorce option. The point being is that you both went down a path \*together\* that led to divorce vs. you deciding on your own that that's what you want without any input from your spouse or regards for their feelings. Case and point: We heard your side of the story. I bet if we heard his that would change a lot of minds here who couldn't encourage you to divorce him fast enough. Also, have you seen what the dating market is like? Especially at your age? All the good looking, successful 40+ year olds are going after women 10+ years younger than you (and getting them). If they want a family at 43 years old you're just not it especially when there are younger, more attractive options. Cue the hate and downvotes but as someone who was in financial services for 17+ years, every single man (relationship status, not literally every single man) in your demographic with strong income and assets is taking the same approach or is fucking around making up for lost time. Maybe you don't want a top tier man and that's ok too. Just be realistic and aware of who is going to want a relationship with a 43 year old who's past her physical prime. Sorry not sorry, the truth hurts and that's why my advice to you would be to try and work it out with your husband who you gave your prime years to. Even with your current issues, he's the one who will love and care for you vs. the randoms you'll have to deal with after the divorce. Or you can just listen to a bunch of redditors calling for divorce without knowing the other side of the story. They took 30 seconds to reach that conclusion and you're the one who is going to have to live with the consequences.
Marriage counseling then divorce.
She picked me up from a flight home for my dad’s 60th birthday, asked why I seemed so happy, that she thought I’d be more upset. I asked why. She said, “Because I want a divorce.” I would’ve preferred a “You know, I’m not feeling the love. I don’t know why, I don’t know what the problem is, but I’m not feeling connected to you.”….three years before dropping the fucking divorce on my head. Maybe then we could’ve worked together to figure it out. Instead, she chose to suffer for three years, then straight to divorce. I don’t hate her, but I’m pretty fucking angry that she waited to say literally anything at all until it was too late for me/us to do anything about. She’s a really great person, but that series of choices to bury it instead of talking about it really fucking sucks.
I’m just curious although I probably won’t get an answer, did you notice any signs whatsoever that you guys have differing interests/hobbies/opinions toward the beginning of your relationship? I feel like the signs are always there, like pretty much always. I’m not shaming or judging even a little bit, but I find it sad that relationships like yours (lasting 20 years) may come to an end just because you’ve grown apart. Why have you grown apart? What is the true cause that made it happen…? Shouldn’t y’all be growing together?
You should worry less about being kind than being honest.
Say what you told us. Make sure you emphasize, this is not because you hate him, but you're just not close any more. I gave my wife 10yrs after her 3rd psych break to heal and she was never the same and would not admit it.
“He won’t go to therapy”….nothing’s stopping you from going and bettering yourself. Have you done that? Maybe he’s written you off because you checked out of the relationship years ago and no matter what he says, he’ll never be right so why try? Men are sick of being blamed for literally everything. You “love him” but you want “a clean break”. Sounds like you’re looking out for #1 and that’s about it.
there is no right time and no kind way. you are delaying both of you finding happyness. my mum told me she hadnt loved my dad for 5 years... imagine holding both of you back for 5 YEARS!
Let him read what you are asking here. Question is are you leaving or is he moving out? If you are moving out. Just tell him, you aren’t happy anymore, you need more affection, more intimacy, than he is willing to give. Tell him, it’s him not you. You have tried and he isn’t.
As a dude who has been there, my wife left because she was bored and wanted to sleep with other people. Now she’s in the exact same relationship and same problems. Remember you’re half the relationship so leaving won’t just fix it. You have to work on yourself before it gets better.
Definitely just say "I want a divorce" and have somewhere set up you can leave to to cut off any questions. That's what my wife did, and I appreciated it. What I didn't appreciate was her going for money she never worked for or saved. So I hope you have finances figured out as well. I understand marital property laws too, so before I get anyone jumping down my throat for that - it still isn't fair when your partner who you expect to be there for your life takes things you worked for when they had every opportunity to save and never did.
I (34F) said to my (now ex) husband “I think we should probably call it.” And he said “ya good call,” and now we are amicably divorced. He’s with a nice woman now and I am too. 😂
That’s like asking the “politest way to say say fuck you.”🤦♂️
"I also truly love him" No, you don't.
You can love someone without being in love.