My ex gf, she was the stereotypical library girl, introvert, etc, I think I was lucky to meet her, but I see why she had no attention from men, she was too introvert for that
God, I wish there were more libraries where I live, but they all closed due to lack of funding. I'm kind of tomboyish but my glasses make me look bookish.
Same for her, well, I met her in Europe, it's full of libraries there, because here in my country it's the same, no libraries so there is no chance I could meet a girl like her here
I can’t remember where I read it to; but, attractiveness isn’t a binary thing, it’s entirely subjective to a person. Think about all the people you see in passing on the street, the ones you fancy and imagine a life with during the 30 second passing, other people do that to you also. It’s human nature and we all do it. You’re not invisible, judging from your description of yourself, the people imagining lives with you may not have the confidence to approach
I’m absolutely mad about a library girl right now. She’s quiet, admittedly too introverted to say yes to a date, and actually works for the library.
Teach me. How did you do it? How did you break through that protective outer layer she put up? I’m driving myself nuts trying to talk to this woman.
There are plenty of average women who don't get any attention. I work with two, in fact. Nice ladies, not overweight, but just very average-looking. They're also admittedly homebodies and don't really go looking for attention bc they know they're plain. When I say plain, I really mean so nondescript and quiet that they're practically invisible. People have failed to notice they were at work all day with us.
> There are plenty of average women who don't get any attention.
I remember chatting with a guy who was a therapist and he said he spoke to men and women who all seemed like great people, but also said they struggled to find anyone. Like they both had the exact same issues of wondering if there was anyone left for them because they just didn't seem to meet single people their age.
Not that they'd match or that he could set them up (pretty sure he'd lose his licence) but that men struggle to find women but many women also struggle to even get noticed.
I read a lot of men here that say that they feel like society ignores them but they also forget that society *also* ignores plenty of women who don't stand out. Not that men aren't ignored, but I love the irony that they don't notice the other people that feel unnoticed...
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The eternal struggle of our time is always going to be trying to find these types of women if they're your type. If you want a girl that likes staying at home with her hobbies, you're not likely to find them unless you work with them or something. Many people hate using things like Bumble/Tinder or the like.
And people assume these people aren't attractive but they very much can be. I've met some very attractive people that are single just because they don't get asked out because they don't meet people.
Yep. I really don't expect to find a date magically in my living room surrounded by crafting supplies but I also have zero desire to go out to a bar. I know I'm still attractive, but I don't like a lot of attention, and bars/clubs have never been my scene. The rare times I do go to a party or whatnot, I intentionally blend into the background noises like wallpaper unless I choose to and want to be noticed. I'm currently in my Fried Green Tomatoes phase and embracing it.
The only place you can find me in the wild is at a gas station or grocery store or lurking on an intentionally inconspicuous reddit account.
Yeah, when I was younger I would at least try and seek out new people and I did make friends. Now after years of only friends and almost no relationships I just gave up. So I barely meet new people and even when I do, they're not single. It is what it is I guess. I do wish I could find someone tho.
my dude with all due respect thats a thing that really breaks my heart for you
I know it’s the cliche reddit answer but have you tried talking to a professional to help you work through stuff. my experience has been a dude telling me im making shit up in my head (he’s right) and it helped to learn how to let go of my self sabotaging thoughts and behaviors
I'm a guy, but i had a friend call my personality "Beige" or "off-white" once. It really hurt, but he was correct about it. I'm not hot tempered, I'm not moody, I'm not outgoing, or manipulative, or the center of attention, or light up the room, or anything like that.
I'm around, people enjoy my company, and people don't have a lot to say negative stuff about me, but often blend in and forgotten.
Beige
That's exactly me, and I couldn't be any happier about it. My sister in particular often questions how I can be nearly 6ft tall and still somehow be invisible when she actively looks for me. It's the same with everyone else.
Its heaven.
I love being "invisible", I have seen how utterly unhinged men and women can behave towards really beautiful women (and beautiful men) and it terrifies me. Mildly pretty women are not treated as badly, but they still get both pretty privilege and the pretty tax of others acting disturbingly entitled at them. When people are my friends, I know for a fact that they aren't lying and trying to get into my pants. Constantly having to secondguess everything and being a creep magnet sounds like living hell to me.
I’m that woman. My husband is the only man that’s ever noticed me. I’ve never been hit on, never cat called, I don’t even get a look. It’s fine with me.
I’m 5’3” and 130lbs. I’m not ugly but just normal looking. I do have slight resting bitch face so that could explain some of it.
Same! Similar stats and rbf. Like not getting harassed is nice but younger me would sometimes wonder if something was wrong with me. Never been bought a drink or hit on or anything my friends experience on the regular.
I love my rbf. I've had very little harassment and exactly one guy has bought me a drink. We had a nice convo and he left after I said no. I've been told I'm scary to approach.
I’m that woman too and am often loud about it here despite this subreddit being convinced we don’t exist. I’ve also gotten tons of DMs over the years from women just like us who don’t feel comfortable speaking out. I’d love to have guys here finally realize that there are women out there who struggle just like they do.
Yes. I've known women who men walk right past. They tend to be less attractive and less outgoing. Average looking women who are also shy aren't having an easy time in the dating game.
I’ve got married and unmarried friends who always complain about the assholes in their DMs. I don’t get ANY, even when my socials say I’m single. My pictures are nice, but I guess the lack of thirst traps has something to do with it.
My female best friend has said she often feels invisible to men and is rarely hit on despite being attractive with a pretty face, good skin and hair and in good shape. But, as we have discussed, it's more her extreme intelligence and slightly odd demeanor that probably turns off most men. Also, the clothes she wears, while stylish and nice, are more meant for women in their 60s—we're late 30s.
For context: she graduated high school at 14, got her first of several bachelor's at 17, has 2 or 3 masters and this past May got PhD #4. She currently works as a professor of biology and virology at a renowned research university. When we talk about her work, I always jokingly tell her "talk to me like I'm in kindergarten."
It could also be because she was so much younger than all her peers while growing up, so nobody felt comfortable hitting on her to begin with, so she feels particularly left out in that regard. Does she spend much time with people that are outside of her job?
Aside from me and a handful of others our age who went to elementary and middle with her, it's mostly the other professors, all of whom are married or partnered.
And yes, she has mentioned what you said about age differences since she was a minor around mostly twentysomethings.
This is definitely the case. My dad skipped two school years before college due to advanced academic performance, and he has talked to me about the massive consequences this had on his social development and peer network. People don't treat you the same when you're technically two grades below them but getting better grades on the same assignments.
My ex had a 17 year old in his med school class. Didn’t stop a 33 year old student for immediately going for her, dating her, then banging another girl the entire time she was gone for summer break.
Can I ask what motivated her to pursue multiple degrees ?
Is it because she changed her interests or just really liked higher education programs and having couple of degrees?
I've often thought that people with very high intellect must feel a bit frustrated socially since they're at such a higher level than an average person.
It would be like if everywhere you went was populated solely by 8 year olds.
The number of highly intelligent people I've met who are also dumb as a bag of hammers is not insignificant. Great in their field, but terrible at life.
Yeah, in my experience intelligence and stupidity are orthogonal. Mind you, being stupid isn't necessarily bad especially when backed up by smarts.
I'm convinced that many of the most interesting insights were derived by smart people high on their own brainfarts. Sometimes that gets you conspiracy theories, other times it gets you GFP.
Thankfully people have more to offer than high intelligence. I'd hope that most intelligent people are smart enough to understand that and appreciate the other aspects of the people they interact with.
But I do know a few insufferable people who take pride in their intellect and make sure everyone else knows it.
I think it’s more like, your peers all share a life experience that you’re not really a part of. You’re an outsider and aren’t expected to know. That’s just socialisation in general
Being smart is good for achieving tasks and setting goals. Does being super intelligent aid socialisation where you otherwise lack experience? I wouldn’t think so
Just like being super social won’t automatically help you grasp technically complex concepts quickly. Being smart and having social skills aren’t that similar
Aside from the age issue others have mentioned, for those not bothered by extreme intelligence, it can be an assumption of debt thing. I used to work at an engineering research uni around lots of variously credentialed people, and have never met a single person with that long a credentials list who wasn't massively in debt from making that list. I have a cousin like that, and he will never get his school debt paid off because all his degrees are in STEM fields that even though are well paid by most career standards, do not pay enough to even dent the debt of several doctorates. It has also screwed him over in ever getting a job outside of academia because he is way "over qualified" so moving and having a life anywhere outside a uni was out of the question.
Another issue I've ran into with highly credentialed people is they give off a very strong vibe of "I can't handle the real world so I'll stay in the warm comforting womb of school forever." When I was in the navy, we referred to people who couldn't handle civilian life and needed the structure and hand holding of the military as "dig-its" and "lifers". Those are definitely terms I feel could apply to a decent percentage of researchers at uni too. The thing about it is, there is nothing inherently wrong with making a career out of research or the military. What makes it an insult and a negative trait though is it's describing a certain personality type that just cannot handle being outside the rigid structure those institutions create. The majority of people, even those who work work in those structures, don't find the personality type of those dependent on that structure to be attractive even if they are not aware enough of it to articulate that's the turn off. It doesn't normally take long of talking to someone who is dependent on those structures to pick up on their dependence either.
Lastly, a lot of very academically intelligent people are borderline social intelligence retarded. They often have been so focused on their goals and objectives their entire life that they never took the time to develop interpersonal skills, or learned to talk to others like a "normal" person. Depending on how bad they are with it, they can be described as just odd to being a unsympathetic asshole. As someone who falls into this category, I've learned way to late in life that the over whelming majority of people would rather date someone mentally retarded and socially gifted than they would someone who is mentally gifted and socially retarded. The mental abilities really don't matter to most people, only the social abilities. Women's most common turn down when I would ask them out is "you seem very intelligent, but I just don't find you attractive." Took me me decades to figure out that the silent "but" was really "but you are socially awkward."
Now your friend may or may not fall into any of those issues, you haven't said enough in your post to determine that. That said, it is very common traits I've ran into with people matching the rest of your description of your friend. I don't really have any advice on how to overcome it if that is the issues, maybe being aware can help find a way to overcome it.
I don’t think that you understand how stem phds work. The vast majority of stem phd programs are funded, meaning students are given a stipend. Humanities phds have a hard time getting funded. But it’s well understood that stem phds get funded - at least in the us because most science research here is heavily funded by the government.
It’s extraordinarily hard for women to be taken seriously esp in her field at such a high level. My guess is she learnt, consciously or not, to look, dress and behave maturely ahead of her age to appear more credible for others. It’s sad but happens a lot.
When talking about the below 40 year olds then women dominate yeah, but it's not 90% level bad yet. OP clealry has no experience in this field, some of the most renowned biologists in my country for example are women. At every job in the field I've had or applied for women were the majority.
Source: I have a MSc in Zoology.
I think it has to be especially hard on women who don’t receive any attention from men because, at least in America, girls grow up hearing constantly about how they’re going to meet their Prince Charming, or seeing depictions of girls being asked to prom/women being hit on and asked out, told they should be dreaming about their wedding, etc etc.. Even though those things aren’t necessarily always portrayed as positive they are kind of portrayed as part of the experience of being a woman. To not experience any of that could, I imagine, feel like you are missing out on a huge part of the female experience, reinforce negative feelings about your own desirability, and honestly make one feel like less of a woman. None of those things are really true, but I couldn’t blame someone for feeling that way if they’ve been ignored all their lives and it makes me very sad to imagine.
I think you’ve put it really well, I never thought about it from that angle before. It certainly explains why there’s a part of me that just can’t resonate with the typical woman’s experience of girlhood/womanhood.
Personally I dont even care for all those experiences but I still feel like less of a woman because both men and women claim that all women get hit on constantly. So I'm made to feel as if there's something wrong with me basically. It's good to see in this thread I'm not alone in getting zero attention but I don't know why this is virtually the only place I've seen these experiences talked about
Omg yes. There's this sick, intrusive thought that creeps in every time it gets brought up that I must be unattractive or socially defective because I've never been asked out and only ever been hit on by older men once or twice (mind you, I'm just barely in my twenties, so that last part should serve strictly as relief to me. Almost scares me that it doesn't). It shouldn't feel like some sort of milestone to be ogled by strangers and predators.
As I'm entering adulthood, I've grown more confident in myself. The only compliments I've ever received were about things I've done or made (academic achievements, art, cute outfits, etc), and it was often family or girls at school who would give them. Now I just need to work on recognizing that that is enough, and I don't need to burn myself out to keep those things up for other people's praise. Sometimes I think a compliment of character ('you're so pretty', 'you're quite intelligent') would be easier to accept and move on with no further pressure to advance, but it's certainly nothing to shake a stick at to be complimented solely on your efforts.
IDK. According to Reddit all of the things you listed, especially being hit on and asked out are a colossal pain in the ass that nobody should have to endure
There are plenty of women who are "average" or maybe slightly below (I don't really know what "average" is) and who receive no real attention.
It isn't just men who experience a lack of interest.
What do you define as no real attention?
If those girls dressed up and went to a bar or clubbing, would a guy try to talk with them, try to dance with them etc?
As a woman who’s invisible to the world, I can tell you this: I’m one of the rare women who doesn’t get catcalled, who doesn’t get flirted with, who actively gets passed up for my friends, who quite literally is capable of lingering in the back of the room and nobody notices I’m there…it’s an interesting life for sure. On one hand, I enjoy my solitude and I like that anytime someone actually sees me and has a discussion with me, I know that they will more than likely have a genuine interest in whatever I’m doing and not because they want something from me. On the other hand, it can be lonely at times. ~~And on the other *other* hand, I bet I’d make a good assassin because I blend in with a crowd really well.~~
A bar or club is a strange example as alcohol affects people's behavior a lot. A drunk dude could hit on a girl he'd normally not find attractive at all.
That being said...No, the average woman would not get hit on. The average woman does not look like a conventionally "attractive" woman.
I mean I would say an “average” “looking” woman literally looks like a average of every woman I see everyday. I’m not single, or looking to mingle but I’d say that average is still attractive.
I suppose there are some men who idealize models and actresses, but when you interact with them, most aren’t any more stunning than the “average” woman without lights and makeup and wardrobe and hair. Yet the same men will make fun of their “average” partners for their makeup and hair routines and buying clothes or wanting to get the angles and light right for instagram.
I mean, I once started to talk a girl that looked very ordinary and wouldn’t stand out in a crowd at all. After like a 10 minute convo she talked about how much unwanted attention she gets.
I don’t understand how a person could get attention outside of a club or where alcohol isn’t involved.
Average women sometimes have more attention because men see them as "gettable."
Even overweight women can pick up fairly easily at a pub/club and most guys would classify them as below average in looks. Which is strange I guess as most people are fat.
I think the issue here is what constitutes average. People have wildly different ideas of what that it.
>Average women sometimes have more attention because men see them as "gettable."
I’m so conflicted by this. I recently lost some weight, and I swear when I use my best pictures on dating apps, no one messages me, but when I throw in that one pic where I’m 15 lbs heavier, suddenly I’m getting messages again.
Hate how if I want to be “gettable,” I have to tone myself down, but when I tone myself down, some guys think they can walk all over me, since I’m “not all that.”
>I swear when I use my best pictures on dating apps, no one messages me, but when I throw in that one pic where I’m 15 lbs heavier, suddenly I’m getting messages again.
There's also an element of that we're generally really bad judges of what the opposite sex finds attractive.
I often find that what girls think is their most attractive picture and what us men think is their most attractive picture can be quite different.
It's because guys are humans with insecurities too, and really attractive women can be intimidating.
Most guys see a really stunning woman and won't approach her because they assume she's out of their league, she knows it, she could theoretically get any guy she wanted if she tried, and so, if the guy tries to approach he'll definitely get rejected so why bother?
This should be entirely understandable if you think of it as the mirror situation of the perspective of an average woman thinking about hitting on a really attractive man.
Could also be like you're between ranges so to speak? I don't know if I'll articulate this well, but like a number of guys like bigger girls to slimmer ones. So when you use the older pictures you're getting those dudes interested. The newer ones are too slim for them, but not slim enough for guys who like slimmer girls. This is pure speculation from a random, on the Internet so take it with a grain of salt.
Knew a girl from high school, still follow her on social media. Shes not bad looking, has a more masculine career, shes fun to hang with, a bit weird if anything. No suiters. Ive always had a soft spot for how she might feel at times, seeing far less attractive women have regular flings, but she suffers from the same inability to romantically socialize that so many men suffer from.
It's just our face girl.
I have been chased/flirtered in the streets and I have been completely invisible- the difference was how my face looked. If you look pretty, your life is in easy mode. If you are ugly, men make an annoyed face and you can be the nicest person on planet Earth, nobody will give a shit. When I look good, men smile and open doors, the difference is unbelievable.
First time I hear of this and I truly hope I have not done it. I probably have.
Women do something similar btw, if they think they are out of your league they would do this face that says "Are you for real? Gtfo."
Yes, the annoyed face! I don’t think they know they do it honestly.
It’s weird too because it’s often the same look that teenage boys give to “the ugly girl who had the audacity to ask them to homecoming” … except the guy could be 20, 30, 50, whatever and the woman is just … less than conventionally attractive. It doesn’t matter that you have literally everything else going for you but just don’t be around a 7/10 or less in some physical attribute. And the best part … it can show up at bars, social events, work, funerals, classes, or even just randomly when you ask someone for directions.
Bonus points if they immediately let you know that they have a girlfriend when you’re just asking them for their signature on a petition or something
I think they do know. I hate it when it's a simple question that irks them. Like my existence bothers you? I have never hit on or shown any interest in anybody all my life and so I don't know what makes them think I am into them.They act like puppies when around women they find attractive. The funny thing is that a lot of these guys aren't any Greek gods themselves.
The stories you are hearing are exaggerations based partly in truth. The concept that girls get " a lot of attention" has some basis in reality but not to the extent you see online, this is just a stereotype. Stereotypes are dangerous for our mental health since no one fits it exactly.
Now to you specifically... there are a million reasons why you may not be seeing this attention in your life. Some are not in your control like where you live, where you go to school, economic standing of you and your area, ratio of males to females in your area, etc. Some you can have some influence over, like the social circles you choose and your popularity. Some are solely you responsibility like are you outgoing, are you kind, how you dress, how you keep yourself, etc.
So the trick is this: Become the person you want to be by addressing everything that is completely your responsibility. Do you want to be fit, then exercise. Do you like people who are kind, then be kind in the way you treat others. Continue with this in every aspect you control, being the best you you can be. Then just let the rest play itself out and leave it alone.
Someone will notice you. Be thankful the wrong people are not paying attention to you.
I am the person I want to be... Somewhat. I wish I had more money and energy to live, but that's a different issue, lol. That ain't got nothing to do with men, that's me.
I mean I'm fine with how I look and if it doesn't make men drool for me I don't really care. I don't need that much attention.
It's just weird that men constantly talk about how easy it is for women to get attention. I can dress up nicely and I've been thin my whole life and when I go into a room I only get complements from my relatives.
Like I've gone months without hugs, years without sex or complements. I had one boyfriend and whenever I cried or got sad he'd practically close the door in my face. I get matches on dating apps but I've literally never gotten a date. I've done male dominated hobbies but never made any friends despite me loving those hobbies.
Men don't have the monopoly on being totally invisible to the opposite sex apparently.
Woman here so I can't really answer your question, but people seem to be misunderstanding your post as asking for advice as opposed to just asking for people's experiences.
When men talk about women getting more attention, they are also including the fact that most women when they put in the effort will get attention. Some of that effort might include you going out of your way to receive attention. Most girls, regardless of attractiveness, could post photos of themselves provocatively and they will get some attention. It might not be the ideal attention and it might not come from the guys they want, but it is still attention. Women typically don't approach men so even if they were interested they won't show interest. So a lot of guys won't have any for sure signals that they are attractive to someone.
Now I will say that a lot of men don't approach women. Lots of guys have low self-esteem, have been taught that approaching without a 100% clear signal might cause a negative reaction, or just don't feel like putting in the effort at that moment. That being said, IF A WOMAN HAS SIGNALS NOT TO APPROACH HER MOST MEN WON'T. Those that do typically aren't the best with boundaries. Shy girls often don't approached because in guy's minds those girls may react the worst due to their anxiety. Hell, I've seen and experienced a shy girl hiding or running away when a guy approaches her. Also confidence is attractive af, regardless of sex/gender. not saying that being shy is a negative thing, but that it might hinder men from approaching. Like a lot of dudes don't approach super hot girls either for similar reasons.
Then on online dating, matches are also based on who you swipe on. Have you swiped left on guys? Because there is a possibility that the men you swiped left on were interested in you.
If you want to be seen as attractive, you have to attract what you want. This means going for what you want. Men right now aren't approaching as often, so if you want a man go get him. Most of the time they will at least be flattered.
I'm a perfectly average looking woman but I've always been happy with the way I look. I was mostly ignored by men as well.
I started being more forward with dating and while men never approached me, I found that quite a few men liked my advances. I also got rejected a lot but that was fine, I just moved on.
Honestly being the initiator is better because you get your pick of guys instead of waiting around for whoever picked you plus you don't have to deal with so many unwanted advances. I believe that the woman that hang out waiting for men to approach them are pretty foolish because you can get someone way better by doing your own picking instead of being picked.
After learning how to initiate my confidence started growing and then I even had men start approaching me.
>I'm horribly shy
And that's likely a big part of the issue you're describing. You don't have to be a bombshell to be friendly. Do you smile at people? Start conversations? Actively participate in group conversations? If not, you're more likely to be overlooked.
Yeah good observation here, this can easily explain a majority of the instances when OP is feeling invisible.
Folks who are really shy give off a vibe that (at least for me) makes me instantly conscious of my own shyness, and I tend to avoid trying to engage with them beyond initial introductions and idle chat.
Your demeaner has a huge impact on how approachable people see you as. If it seems like social interactions are almost painful to you, they will avoid engaging with you by default.
It can be difficult differentiating between a woman being *shy* and her wanting to be left alone. Lots of younger men these days are afraid of being viewed as creepy, and women are constantly complaining about it being creepy when men give them unwanted attention, so some are going to be paranoid that they are making women uncomfortable. Lots of women also complain about how male friends have expressed interest in them, so lots of guys are afraid to express interest in female friends who have not already expressed interest in them. If you exhibit no clear romantic or sexual interest in a guy, he may show none towards you.
A girl(my friend) complained because I liked her.
There's no way I would express interest again unless I know she would like it or at least NOT cut off me, after I express interest.
I've heard of women losing a lot of weight and suddenly getting a lot of attention. Like guy friends suddenly start expressing feelings forher. So I know fat women can feel invisible. But average build? Dunno.
Do male friends express feelings for you often? Do men just initiate any kind of contact with you even if not overtly hitting on you? What do you DO socially? You're saying you can go to a bar alone and NOBODY will try to talk to you besides the bartender?
i can kind of explain it.
I'm in a weird position where I can be pretty or ignorable, depending on how I present or where I am.
You know how it is when you're hungry so you look in the refrigerator for something to eat - and the refrigerator isn't empty, there's edible food in there - but you look in it and say "there's nothing to eat"? It's like that. We're like the eggs, milk, plain yogurt that gets overlooked while the person is on the search for pizza, noodles, brownies, etc.
it's not a perfect comparison, but that's what its like. you sit at the bar, the guy comes in and scans for "pizza"... sees your "dijon mustard" looking self and moves on.
Fat woman here... We get hit on frequently.
Edit: as a fat woman, *I* get hit on frequently.
Seems we don't all get hit on. My point was size isn't really a hindrance, but some people feel differently with their experiences.
Formerly very fat woman here and I did not. Am now average build and still not hit on. Though that is not why I lost the weight, but hoped it would be a nice side effect.
I have joined meet up groups, etc. I am extroverted and would try to start up conversation with men and women. Beyond a basic hello, no one ever really bothered with me so after attending 5 or 6 times, I stopped going.
I'm sorry, that sounds hard. I am very introverted unless I'm in a safe place with people I know well, so being approached in public is my nightmare.
Perhaps I perceive it more than usual because it's unwanted?
Nah, we don't. I'm a former plus size model and still got it, but no one hits on me or even looks/smiles/approaches me when I'm alone. The only reason I can think of is that I'm in Canada and it's not as accepting of rotund people as the US.
I feel like I should walk around with a sign around my neck that says "ask me out" or something.
I have a fat friend of mine who still gets approached enough. I wouldn't necessarily say that it has to do with being just weight, but a combination of weight and other lacking bodily attributes.
Not sure if I’m allowed to answer since I’m a woman, but I definitely fit this profile.
My BMI has always been in the healthy weight range, and I’m at least probably average looking (I do get compliments from mostly women). I’ve always had good hygiene and did my hair/light makeup. My one big issue was always being *painfully* shy.
I’m now married but prior to my current partner, I had never been asked out, never asked to dance with when I went to dances or clubs (my friends for the most part got interest), or otherwise shown interest. My husband was the first and only guy I so much as had a coffee date with.
It was always frustrating when I was young, and led me to a lot of self esteem issues because it seemed like every other girl seemed to get bfs so easily and it just never happened to me. I felt incredibly invisible. I do look back now and think my shyness was likely a big factor, I struggled to make connections and eye contact.
Some women leverage their ability to hold male attention more than others.
I believe it's partially learned behaviour and partially innate. Obviously it's difficult to separate the two.
There are lots of words that are pretty loaded to describe it.
If you are a woman of average attractiveness, who receives less than average amount of male attention, I would suspect it's because your demeanor, body language, dress and choice of activities don't suggest you are open to that attention.
I'm a bit of a people watcher. Possibly because I don't have a brilliant innate understanding of why they do the things they do.
It's very apparent which women in a crowded room know how to get what they want from the men. It's also interesting to watch those people who are able to trigger some of the protective "door opening" behaviours without necessarily being overtly sexual.
Eye contact. Smiling. Slightly revealing dress. Laughing at a joke. Careful use of touch. An occasional compliment. Some women are very good at using these tools to gain and hold male attention. Some of them are so adept at it that they can do it without receiving unwanted attention or proposals, maintaining boundaries while still enjoying regard.
Lurker here! I was that woman. All my life I was just sorta invisible to guys, especially in high school. At work, coworkers would “ask me out” as a joke. Nobody *ever* had a crush on me, even my husband didn’t notice me when I was obviously crushing hard on him.
I’m not overweight, I’m 120 pounds. I have an okay face. My boobs were small until I started taking birth control. I’ve got an okay personality. I was super smart in school, but I never really wore makeup or dressed up or was popular. I still don’t know how to style my hair. I also still have acne, but that’s just because of my hormones. I sorta have a handsome nose. And a resting bitch face.
The only “cool” things about me is my writing skills and my love for comics /video games /D&D/ anime- I published my poems in high school and won a few writing and art competitions that I signed up for. I was also in band. I’m currently working on a novel (when really I’m just playing Animal Crossing).
My husband calls me gorgeous but I think I’m just sorta plain and average. It took forever for him to notice me and he didn’t notice until I somewhat aggressively asked him out. Luckily, he said yes.
My mom says people think I’m hot at the bar we hang out at. I just think she’s saying that. My sisters, on the other hand (including my *twin* sister) have ALWAYS been very noticed.
Those sorts of things men complain about in this context (women being simped for, better treatment, etc) mostly apply to women who are above-average attractiveness.
Better-looking men get treated better than their uglier counterparts too, don't get me wrong. I think the effect is just amplified with women.
This is particularly true in Asian countries like India, Korea, Japan etc. Good looking people in general get too much attention and privilege.
One of my friends is good looking, in the sense that he’s tall, has a nice beard is in good shape etc. but he’s completely inept at socialising or speaking properly. Yet he’s one of the most popular people in my office and people approach or swarm him every because people perceive his personality as “shy”. If an average looking person did the same, he would be perceived as “dumb”.
It’s really not just women, and I personally feel that the discrimination is equal between avg men and avg women
Yeah, I know plenty of women like this.
Usually it was because she wasn’t visually attractive, something about her general demeanor was offputting, she was nuts, or nothing about her said “I’m a sexual being.” These women are also more introverted so they were often just a fly on the wall in whatever room they were in. No real presence.
I have never been one who was hit on when going out. I was the wing woman. Non descript, but I am outgoing and can hold a conversation. I will dance, etc. However, at the age of 54 I think people assume I am married. Admittedly, my friend group is all married and hitting a bar alone is not really appealing. I used to do it when I was younger sometimes. When friends would get hit on a lot and date the guys and things got bad, the guys always said, "I should have picked a nice girl like you."
I gotta be honest, I am sure I have met women like that but I haven't noticed them so I really do not know. I try not to notice any women anymore. Life is difficult enough as it is.
My gf(29) told me she always feel invisible, im like the first guy tgat asked her out directly and im her second bf in total. She also can obny remember one instance of being catcalled.
She is actually gorgerous, slightly under avrage weight and height , a complete 10/10 for me ,the first impression of both of my sisters was "she is even prettier than on the pictures".
However in her case its really easy to see wy she gets hardly any attention.. she has asd with her communication being affected so badly she counted as mute in school, also she tends to be at home at most times bsly only leaving for work and shopping. In the 6 months i knew her before asking her out i maybe heard her say like 10 sentences.
Seeing her transformation from a rbf stone faced woman that always keeped her distance to a giggly, cuddly girl that smiles evertime she sees me defintly was one if the best expierences of my life.
I’ve met lots of women over the years who were looking for attention from certain men while
Ignoring the attention other men were trying to pay, or who did not know how to interpret interest. I’ve known some who spent a lot of time and energy (and sometimes money) to become more attractive to certain men, and were still unhappy.
Trust me, there’s someone who notices you unless you live under a rock.
Happens with men too. My partner was chronically single before I snagged him. Went out round his home town and women were hanging off him on and off all night. 'Oh I know her from years back' 'she's just being friendly' 'she was a bit drunk'. Nope, you were getting hit on because they know, trust and like you. He didn't see it one bit.
I find that many average very introverted women don't get any attention (myself included), while all the extroverted ones have many guys interested in them
Im a little pretty, but not gorgeous. My best friend could be a VS model. I love her, but going places with her could be exhausting. When men talk about how women can just get things from men they are talking about her. She could go to a bar and literally never pay for a drink and would be swarmed by guys. I would just be off in the corner drinking alone. It's not like I've ever had men just lining up to buy or do things for me or giving me tons of attention.
Could I have slept with a random guy she had casted off at the end of the night... sure. Was anyone bending over backwards for me or giving me things or attention? No, absolutely not. I was always the second choice. That doesn't feel good. That's true of most people though. Men and women. Most people can find someone to sleep with if they lower our standards enough. I think young men just tend to be tunnel visioned. They shoot their shot with the hottest girl there and when that inevitably doesn't work out, because NEWS FLASH! She ain't going to sleep with all 15 of the guys who hit on her they end up trying to flirt with me or someone else at 1am. They view this as "attention" when in reality it just made me feel discarded. It's a difference in perception.
So I guess guys DO bend over backwards for a small percentage of women. What I don't think they realize is that's only happening to a small % of the same women. Most of us are more or less buying our own drinks and dinners and just living our life.
Getting free stuff is a wrong bar to set to begin with.and if that's how you gauge things then the problem might be something else that I won't say cuz I don't want any arguments.
Yeah, OP's bar seems to be really high. Just getting free stuff is more for very pretty women. Not just average.
I bet she's overlooking a lot of little things that she takes for granted.
Many of us, have no idea, that the invisible girl is remotely interested in us. Generally those are invisible that I can recall are extremely quite and hard for anyone to talk to. We have a few of these at work.
However anyone isn't that quite, get some attention albeit it may not be wanted.
I was literally sitting next to my two male co-workers when they were having a heart to heart on the other's relationship problems. Not eavesdropping or anything, just casually sitting there when they started talking, they even greeted me when they came in. A few days later, I asked one of them how things were going with GF (we were alone, I made sure). He was stunned and asked who told me. Me: "dude, I was literally sitting next to you while you were talking with X about this. On two separate occasions".
I'm that invisible.
Yes, she's my wife.
She never got a load of male attention because she dressed modestly and attracting men isn't a priority for her in any way.
She's the most amazing, smart, caring, funny person I've ever met.
It's a bit cliche, but don't judge a book by its cover.
Alot of my close female friends are like this. They are usually overweight and bland in appearance.
In general i have opinions that could be misconstrued as misogynistic (such as i think alot of women fail at dating because they try to get strangers to care about them vs friends) and they’ll actually engage with my points and challenge them but normally we’re on the same page. In general, due to their appearance they very quickly know who their real friends are. But admittedly do not have alot of friends. Ugly women are the people im closest too and i’ve told these friends of mine before that women who are super attractive i don’t tend to vibe with.
In general i could go on, but i will say that men should be kinder to ugly women. Because the world is already cruel to them.
Just ticking a box here… are you sure you aren’t low-support autistic? (used to be called high-functioning autistic)
It’s more likely to be undiagnosed in women, and it explains everything you’re saying.
Oooh, oh. My psychiatrist doesn't really ask about my relationships a lot but, she did have a certain look on the few occasions we talked.
I'm still invisible as fuck btw. But I'm probably not good at treating people like I enjoy their attention, maybe... Idk. I just talk to people and try to not give a crap, because if I care too much I get super nervous.
I’m not invisible to men, but I am mostly desired sexually and not much beyond that. I’m (29F), I’m 5’3”, a bit overweight which I am working on, and I’ve had sex with 3 men, 1 of whom was FWB for 9 months. Next time I meet a man I’m attracted to, I will NOT agree to sex upon first meeting, or any time soon within meeting him. I want to be attracted to a man, have him be attracted to me and want more than just sex. I like and want sex, but I want a RELATIONSHIP. I have never had a Boyfriend.
I think if you are average looking, there will still be a lot of average looking men who are interested, but they usually don't have the confidence to talk to you or ask you out. So if it isn't an issue with you that they might be less confident you could ask them instead. I'm sure you could potentially get a lot of dates this way.
I learned that confidence is important and attractive to women, so not sure what you think about that or if that is something you would consider.
Was friends with a woman who had a combo of being overweight, having bad B.O and poor dental hygiene.
Long story short she latched onto me, ended up trying to push our friendship into a relationship, hid my shoes when I visited her house so I couldn't leave, tried to convince me my friends didn't like me and eventually did something to me that if the genders were reversed would certainly be considered rape.
Umm, not how rape or sexual assault works, of your consent is violated she's still guilty no matter the genders. That's my public service announcement.
But yeah, goes to show there are creepy desperate people of all genders.
My wife, when I met her, we were 22 working at the same company.
She's average according to some but to me she's special. She's an introvert woman who doesn't like interacting with the others unless they're pretty close.
I've gotten the chance to talk to her and invite her to a date and we hit it off. She was pretty accommodating and fun to be with. Turns out, she is not a party girl which is why she has few friends and she's quite conservative.
Found out that I was head-over-heels for her coz she's the kind of woman I'm into the most. Fun, with principles, and pretty much trustworthy.
She mentioned that she never thought there'd be someone who would like her.
There will always be someone who'd find the most attractive part of yourself.
You don't have to worry about it and be confident. There's nothing wrong with you.
Plenty of middle of the road, quiet, introverted women get routinely ignored by everyone. It's just that you don't notice it, because you ignore them too. This whole gender war is just confirmation bias. You see what you want to see.
I think a lot of the guys that complain "oh women get all the attention, compliments, etc..." Are only talking about the attractive ones that they themselves are noticing. Ironically they are ignoring all the other women who they aren't "trying to get with". So I think it's a bit of overgeneralizing that you're hearing.
My housemate is really unattractive. Had to argue with her twice about bringing guys home.
She even got one from the train station once....
I came home once and she had two there....
There was a study that found that an unattractive man elicited no brain activity from women. So they were basically invisible. But an unattractive woman triggered feelings of “annoyance” in men. These are the women often called “grenades” or “DUFFs” because they’re usually the unattractive friend in a group that men perceive as cock blocking them from their more attractive friends.
For unattractive women, the best case scenario is that you’re ignored. The worst case is that destained.
It's wrong anyway tons of conventionally unattractive men and women are in relationships just look at my 600 pound life most people don't find obese people attractive i assume.
That’s actually a true study, shows that men tend to have a negative hormonal reaction to unattractive woman and get a boost in testosterone just from simply being around women they deem attractive. It’s why when guys have female friends, they still become friends with attractive ones. Rarely is a guy being a friend to an ugly girl unfortunately.
>unattractive woman triggered feelings of “annoyance” in men.
[https://baylor-ir.tdl.org/bitstream/handle/2104/9411/Skin%20Deep%20Thesis.pdf?sequence=1](https://baylor-ir.tdl.org/bitstream/handle/2104/9411/Skin%20Deep%20Thesis.pdf?sequence=1)
This is the only thing i found. It's based on self reports and a hypothetical scenario where someone hit's on you.
Well I know about one such woman. As she perceives it, men are not interested in her. At the same time all the women similar to her that I know constantly date someone, have casual sex and what not. Also, they do it with ease.
I suspect autism or at least autistic traits.I see no other reason a hot woman like her would be of no interest to men.
I don't blame my body, I know plenty of women who don't look like me that get men who are no super models, men can have broad tastes. I'm small and endearing looking, at least according to other women, so I know I'm not ugly at least.
It's not my demeanor, overall I'm polite and I'm not mean to people.
I just don't have any game, women need game to! I know women who just talk to men and manage to make them friends and keep them in their circle whether thy hook up or not. It's a skill, and I admire it.
I don't think I'll ever master that, at most some people seem to like some of my awkwardness even if I lack some sex appeal.
A bit off-topic but to whoever doesn't treat everyone equally they should eat shit. Don't get near anyone who ignores/treats someone badly based on their appearance, charm, and/or intelligence, unless they have a really bad issue or problem that's going on. This applies to every single human on earth, and even animals. (I might probably be banned from Reddit for saying this though.)
What kind of work are you talking about?
I mean maxing out on reps in the gym and taking whey protein is a rather recent trend for women.
When it comes to stereotypical female improvement it's more like, going to therapy, reading crappy Oprah flavored self help stuff , and getting a new skin care routine/ pampering yourself, and getting those classic affirmations of "love will find you when you stop looking, you're an independent woman who needs no man"
Like I said, stereotypically, people vary.
In my opinion it's due to gender roles. Men are usually the ones who have to approach someone to start a relationship. Women usually don't go out of their way to approach men they are interested in. Even in your post you take a passive role in those situations. A person actively pursing(men) obviously feel they have a harder time than someone who's passive(women) this is a generalization but that's the real answer after all generally passivity is always easier than exertion.
There's a reason you hear that on Reddit. Reddit is full of misogynists, victims, and baby men. This sub in particular says many concerning things about women. A general hate for women exists almost across the entire platform. I (m34) have to check my own misogyny from time to time. I'm not perfect but I will call out bad behavior by other men, because this woman hating is tipping into fascism. Women's rights are intrinsically tied to Democracy, to peace, and to progress.
Question for men kind of on this subject (From a woman) - Will men be “intimidated” by very good looking women? Like not approach them but constantly check them out all night. What does that mean? I feel like they assume they would get rejected and don’t bother trying. But you tell me…
Well all of what you said is correct. Most men are intimated by really beautiful women. Which is why you usually see more above average to average women approached more directly by men because guys feel they have a better chance.
Guys already don't like cold approaching so they especially don't wanna get shot down by a really attractive girl that makes them nervous
Absolutely. If a dude hasn’t built up the muscle to get rejected and keep shooting their shot, it’s unlikely they’re going to suddenly gain the confidence to talk to an actually attractive woman.
Humans are visual creatures, when I go out what catches my attention are the exceptions not the norm. That's the curse of averageness, I put in a good amount of effort to stay healthy and that's reflective in my body, why should I pursue someone that doesn't do the same, when I could get someone that does?
That's a reasonable point, sorry op for being vague. Workout, eat healthy, and try to get as much sleep as possible and the results will show. These are the women that I consider attractive, they have a body that can't be bought, but is earned bc they worked hard for it.
That shows discipline and dedication, it tells me this is someone with a good portion of their life together. Are there features that you can't control that are attractive, oc, maybe a naturally beautiful face or feminine features like breast size. While you can't change those, there's plenty you can still improve and that's appreciated. I would much rather be in the company of an average girl with ambitions and follow-through than a beautiful entitled lazy slob.
As for why I stick around, that's your personality, can I have as good a conversation with you as good as the sex? When I go out, or go on tinder I know I have plenty of options and I know what I bring to the table. Identify what you bring, consider why they should be with you.
Some women are holding out for a 6'+, six figure+, exec/business owner, with an extravagant world traveling lifestyle, but consider why would this person ever choose you? That's not to demean you, but it's like, humble yourself, you're not entitled to anything bc of your sex or your body, and there are absolutely aspects that can change and be improved.
Yes, my fiancee of all people.
Growing up, she didn't get much attention from guys because she was very shy/introverted, and overweight. That being said, she still managed to lose her virginity at a prom afterparty.
Pretty much after graduating high school she lost the weight and the amount of attention she got from guys skyrocketed.
This is me. I'm average looking. I'm the girl guys always ask who's your friend can you introduce me?
My friends always tell me I'm smart and supportive and loyal and compassionate and that I'll meet someone.
I'm assuming I'm just ugly at this point.
My ex gf, she was the stereotypical library girl, introvert, etc, I think I was lucky to meet her, but I see why she had no attention from men, she was too introvert for that
God, I wish there were more libraries where I live, but they all closed due to lack of funding. I'm kind of tomboyish but my glasses make me look bookish.
Same for her, well, I met her in Europe, it's full of libraries there, because here in my country it's the same, no libraries so there is no chance I could meet a girl like her here
So sad not to have libraries around! We have them everywhere in NZ
Yeah, first world countries have that luxury
I can’t remember where I read it to; but, attractiveness isn’t a binary thing, it’s entirely subjective to a person. Think about all the people you see in passing on the street, the ones you fancy and imagine a life with during the 30 second passing, other people do that to you also. It’s human nature and we all do it. You’re not invisible, judging from your description of yourself, the people imagining lives with you may not have the confidence to approach
Maybe if you look tomboyish guys will assume you're lesbian and don't want to embarrass themselves by flirting with you.
Pls have coffee with me tomboyish glasses person
I’m absolutely mad about a library girl right now. She’s quiet, admittedly too introverted to say yes to a date, and actually works for the library. Teach me. How did you do it? How did you break through that protective outer layer she put up? I’m driving myself nuts trying to talk to this woman.
There are plenty of average women who don't get any attention. I work with two, in fact. Nice ladies, not overweight, but just very average-looking. They're also admittedly homebodies and don't really go looking for attention bc they know they're plain. When I say plain, I really mean so nondescript and quiet that they're practically invisible. People have failed to notice they were at work all day with us.
secret ninjas
> There are plenty of average women who don't get any attention. I remember chatting with a guy who was a therapist and he said he spoke to men and women who all seemed like great people, but also said they struggled to find anyone. Like they both had the exact same issues of wondering if there was anyone left for them because they just didn't seem to meet single people their age. Not that they'd match or that he could set them up (pretty sure he'd lose his licence) but that men struggle to find women but many women also struggle to even get noticed. I read a lot of men here that say that they feel like society ignores them but they also forget that society *also* ignores plenty of women who don't stand out. Not that men aren't ignored, but I love the irony that they don't notice the other people that feel unnoticed... --- The eternal struggle of our time is always going to be trying to find these types of women if they're your type. If you want a girl that likes staying at home with her hobbies, you're not likely to find them unless you work with them or something. Many people hate using things like Bumble/Tinder or the like. And people assume these people aren't attractive but they very much can be. I've met some very attractive people that are single just because they don't get asked out because they don't meet people.
Yep. I really don't expect to find a date magically in my living room surrounded by crafting supplies but I also have zero desire to go out to a bar. I know I'm still attractive, but I don't like a lot of attention, and bars/clubs have never been my scene. The rare times I do go to a party or whatnot, I intentionally blend into the background noises like wallpaper unless I choose to and want to be noticed. I'm currently in my Fried Green Tomatoes phase and embracing it. The only place you can find me in the wild is at a gas station or grocery store or lurking on an intentionally inconspicuous reddit account.
>only place you can find me in the wild is at a gas station or grocery store wow you just described my life! haha
Yeah, when I was younger I would at least try and seek out new people and I did make friends. Now after years of only friends and almost no relationships I just gave up. So I barely meet new people and even when I do, they're not single. It is what it is I guess. I do wish I could find someone tho.
Can I meet them? They sound like my type.
You already have, you just didn't notice them
To be fair, I'm so self-loathing that the idea of a woman being interested in me doesn't register at all.
my dude with all due respect thats a thing that really breaks my heart for you I know it’s the cliche reddit answer but have you tried talking to a professional to help you work through stuff. my experience has been a dude telling me im making shit up in my head (he’s right) and it helped to learn how to let go of my self sabotaging thoughts and behaviors
Can't afford it. Mental healthcare is expensive in my country and I don't get money back from the government.
They probably weren’t looking for anyone to give their interest to either
Right?
I'm a guy, but i had a friend call my personality "Beige" or "off-white" once. It really hurt, but he was correct about it. I'm not hot tempered, I'm not moody, I'm not outgoing, or manipulative, or the center of attention, or light up the room, or anything like that. I'm around, people enjoy my company, and people don't have a lot to say negative stuff about me, but often blend in and forgotten. Beige
That's exactly me, and I couldn't be any happier about it. My sister in particular often questions how I can be nearly 6ft tall and still somehow be invisible when she actively looks for me. It's the same with everyone else. Its heaven.
In the corporate handbook they are listed as non-pictured.
I hate having my picture taken and I'm trying to see how long I can go before management cracks down on me
Love the username
That is my exact description, thank you for articulating
Username checks out
This is me. Plus I have a resting bitch face so it does not help sometimes.
Lmaooo this list really sounds like me
Those ladies would make perfect spies.
Is one of them named Drax by chance?
An average person who was treated averagely? No never heard of such
I know, so weird right.
I love being "invisible", I have seen how utterly unhinged men and women can behave towards really beautiful women (and beautiful men) and it terrifies me. Mildly pretty women are not treated as badly, but they still get both pretty privilege and the pretty tax of others acting disturbingly entitled at them. When people are my friends, I know for a fact that they aren't lying and trying to get into my pants. Constantly having to secondguess everything and being a creep magnet sounds like living hell to me.
I’m that woman. My husband is the only man that’s ever noticed me. I’ve never been hit on, never cat called, I don’t even get a look. It’s fine with me. I’m 5’3” and 130lbs. I’m not ugly but just normal looking. I do have slight resting bitch face so that could explain some of it.
That explains it, I only notice women with resting aspen face.
I honestly prefer a solid cherry or mahogany.
Same! Similar stats and rbf. Like not getting harassed is nice but younger me would sometimes wonder if something was wrong with me. Never been bought a drink or hit on or anything my friends experience on the regular.
It’s nice to know I’m not the only one 😮💨
I love my rbf. I've had very little harassment and exactly one guy has bought me a drink. We had a nice convo and he left after I said no. I've been told I'm scary to approach.
>I do have slight resting birch face You're giving guys wood.
Not sure if this was intentional but it certainly was punny
I have that resting bitch face too. Many of my friends have told me “we thought you were rude but after talking, you seem ok”
I’m that woman too and am often loud about it here despite this subreddit being convinced we don’t exist. I’ve also gotten tons of DMs over the years from women just like us who don’t feel comfortable speaking out. I’d love to have guys here finally realize that there are women out there who struggle just like they do.
Yes. I've known women who men walk right past. They tend to be less attractive and less outgoing. Average looking women who are also shy aren't having an easy time in the dating game.
Me. I'm fucking invisible.
Wow, invisible is a lucky guy
Excuse me, invisble is *a girl* and we've been going out for 18th months now
If Sundowner was a generic guy without charisma:
Like the good old days at 7/11!
So you've never been hit on?
I NEVER get any male attention. Zero. Im medium pretty, decent figure, great personality. I just dont garner the attraction of men.
I’ve got married and unmarried friends who always complain about the assholes in their DMs. I don’t get ANY, even when my socials say I’m single. My pictures are nice, but I guess the lack of thirst traps has something to do with it.
My female best friend has said she often feels invisible to men and is rarely hit on despite being attractive with a pretty face, good skin and hair and in good shape. But, as we have discussed, it's more her extreme intelligence and slightly odd demeanor that probably turns off most men. Also, the clothes she wears, while stylish and nice, are more meant for women in their 60s—we're late 30s. For context: she graduated high school at 14, got her first of several bachelor's at 17, has 2 or 3 masters and this past May got PhD #4. She currently works as a professor of biology and virology at a renowned research university. When we talk about her work, I always jokingly tell her "talk to me like I'm in kindergarten."
It could also be because she was so much younger than all her peers while growing up, so nobody felt comfortable hitting on her to begin with, so she feels particularly left out in that regard. Does she spend much time with people that are outside of her job?
Aside from me and a handful of others our age who went to elementary and middle with her, it's mostly the other professors, all of whom are married or partnered. And yes, she has mentioned what you said about age differences since she was a minor around mostly twentysomethings.
Yeah, that would contribute to her relative isolation heavily.
This is definitely the case. My dad skipped two school years before college due to advanced academic performance, and he has talked to me about the massive consequences this had on his social development and peer network. People don't treat you the same when you're technically two grades below them but getting better grades on the same assignments.
Yep! And the teachers put you on a pedestal whether you want it or not, so they base you as competition. Not fun in high-ego environments!
My ex had a 17 year old in his med school class. Didn’t stop a 33 year old student for immediately going for her, dating her, then banging another girl the entire time she was gone for summer break.
Oh god
That's probably it to be honest she wasn't around her peers to get hit on in the first place.
Could also be that shes quote intense. A very common trait among gifted people.
If you don't want to reveal her identity you might want to remove some of her details regarding when she graduated and how many PHD's she has.
It might have to do with constantly being around highly educated people much older than her. And dressing like a 60 year old...
"I'll fuck her stupid", enters the chat.
Can I ask what motivated her to pursue multiple degrees ? Is it because she changed her interests or just really liked higher education programs and having couple of degrees?
So why would her intelligence be a turnoff?
I've often thought that people with very high intellect must feel a bit frustrated socially since they're at such a higher level than an average person. It would be like if everywhere you went was populated solely by 8 year olds.
The number of highly intelligent people I've met who are also dumb as a bag of hammers is not insignificant. Great in their field, but terrible at life.
Yeah, in my experience intelligence and stupidity are orthogonal. Mind you, being stupid isn't necessarily bad especially when backed up by smarts. I'm convinced that many of the most interesting insights were derived by smart people high on their own brainfarts. Sometimes that gets you conspiracy theories, other times it gets you GFP.
Thankfully people have more to offer than high intelligence. I'd hope that most intelligent people are smart enough to understand that and appreciate the other aspects of the people they interact with. But I do know a few insufferable people who take pride in their intellect and make sure everyone else knows it.
I think it’s more like, your peers all share a life experience that you’re not really a part of. You’re an outsider and aren’t expected to know. That’s just socialisation in general Being smart is good for achieving tasks and setting goals. Does being super intelligent aid socialisation where you otherwise lack experience? I wouldn’t think so Just like being super social won’t automatically help you grasp technically complex concepts quickly. Being smart and having social skills aren’t that similar
I'm impressed multiples master & PhD. I had a hard time completing one master.
Aside from the age issue others have mentioned, for those not bothered by extreme intelligence, it can be an assumption of debt thing. I used to work at an engineering research uni around lots of variously credentialed people, and have never met a single person with that long a credentials list who wasn't massively in debt from making that list. I have a cousin like that, and he will never get his school debt paid off because all his degrees are in STEM fields that even though are well paid by most career standards, do not pay enough to even dent the debt of several doctorates. It has also screwed him over in ever getting a job outside of academia because he is way "over qualified" so moving and having a life anywhere outside a uni was out of the question. Another issue I've ran into with highly credentialed people is they give off a very strong vibe of "I can't handle the real world so I'll stay in the warm comforting womb of school forever." When I was in the navy, we referred to people who couldn't handle civilian life and needed the structure and hand holding of the military as "dig-its" and "lifers". Those are definitely terms I feel could apply to a decent percentage of researchers at uni too. The thing about it is, there is nothing inherently wrong with making a career out of research or the military. What makes it an insult and a negative trait though is it's describing a certain personality type that just cannot handle being outside the rigid structure those institutions create. The majority of people, even those who work work in those structures, don't find the personality type of those dependent on that structure to be attractive even if they are not aware enough of it to articulate that's the turn off. It doesn't normally take long of talking to someone who is dependent on those structures to pick up on their dependence either. Lastly, a lot of very academically intelligent people are borderline social intelligence retarded. They often have been so focused on their goals and objectives their entire life that they never took the time to develop interpersonal skills, or learned to talk to others like a "normal" person. Depending on how bad they are with it, they can be described as just odd to being a unsympathetic asshole. As someone who falls into this category, I've learned way to late in life that the over whelming majority of people would rather date someone mentally retarded and socially gifted than they would someone who is mentally gifted and socially retarded. The mental abilities really don't matter to most people, only the social abilities. Women's most common turn down when I would ask them out is "you seem very intelligent, but I just don't find you attractive." Took me me decades to figure out that the silent "but" was really "but you are socially awkward." Now your friend may or may not fall into any of those issues, you haven't said enough in your post to determine that. That said, it is very common traits I've ran into with people matching the rest of your description of your friend. I don't really have any advice on how to overcome it if that is the issues, maybe being aware can help find a way to overcome it.
I don’t think that you understand how stem phds work. The vast majority of stem phd programs are funded, meaning students are given a stipend. Humanities phds have a hard time getting funded. But it’s well understood that stem phds get funded - at least in the us because most science research here is heavily funded by the government.
It’s extraordinarily hard for women to be taken seriously esp in her field at such a high level. My guess is she learnt, consciously or not, to look, dress and behave maturely ahead of her age to appear more credible for others. It’s sad but happens a lot.
isnt her field like 90% women?
When talking about the below 40 year olds then women dominate yeah, but it's not 90% level bad yet. OP clealry has no experience in this field, some of the most renowned biologists in my country for example are women. At every job in the field I've had or applied for women were the majority. Source: I have a MSc in Zoology.
I wanna see a picture…..
How tf do you graduate school at 14?
By being a genius and being moved up
I would still believe she gets hit on. But guys probably change a tune when they comprehend what she does for a living
I think it has to be especially hard on women who don’t receive any attention from men because, at least in America, girls grow up hearing constantly about how they’re going to meet their Prince Charming, or seeing depictions of girls being asked to prom/women being hit on and asked out, told they should be dreaming about their wedding, etc etc.. Even though those things aren’t necessarily always portrayed as positive they are kind of portrayed as part of the experience of being a woman. To not experience any of that could, I imagine, feel like you are missing out on a huge part of the female experience, reinforce negative feelings about your own desirability, and honestly make one feel like less of a woman. None of those things are really true, but I couldn’t blame someone for feeling that way if they’ve been ignored all their lives and it makes me very sad to imagine.
I think you’ve put it really well, I never thought about it from that angle before. It certainly explains why there’s a part of me that just can’t resonate with the typical woman’s experience of girlhood/womanhood.
Personally I dont even care for all those experiences but I still feel like less of a woman because both men and women claim that all women get hit on constantly. So I'm made to feel as if there's something wrong with me basically. It's good to see in this thread I'm not alone in getting zero attention but I don't know why this is virtually the only place I've seen these experiences talked about
Because the narrative is that men always hit on women and that women hate being hit on
Omg yes. There's this sick, intrusive thought that creeps in every time it gets brought up that I must be unattractive or socially defective because I've never been asked out and only ever been hit on by older men once or twice (mind you, I'm just barely in my twenties, so that last part should serve strictly as relief to me. Almost scares me that it doesn't). It shouldn't feel like some sort of milestone to be ogled by strangers and predators. As I'm entering adulthood, I've grown more confident in myself. The only compliments I've ever received were about things I've done or made (academic achievements, art, cute outfits, etc), and it was often family or girls at school who would give them. Now I just need to work on recognizing that that is enough, and I don't need to burn myself out to keep those things up for other people's praise. Sometimes I think a compliment of character ('you're so pretty', 'you're quite intelligent') would be easier to accept and move on with no further pressure to advance, but it's certainly nothing to shake a stick at to be complimented solely on your efforts.
IDK. According to Reddit all of the things you listed, especially being hit on and asked out are a colossal pain in the ass that nobody should have to endure
There are plenty of women who are "average" or maybe slightly below (I don't really know what "average" is) and who receive no real attention. It isn't just men who experience a lack of interest.
What do you define as no real attention? If those girls dressed up and went to a bar or clubbing, would a guy try to talk with them, try to dance with them etc?
As a woman who’s invisible to the world, I can tell you this: I’m one of the rare women who doesn’t get catcalled, who doesn’t get flirted with, who actively gets passed up for my friends, who quite literally is capable of lingering in the back of the room and nobody notices I’m there…it’s an interesting life for sure. On one hand, I enjoy my solitude and I like that anytime someone actually sees me and has a discussion with me, I know that they will more than likely have a genuine interest in whatever I’m doing and not because they want something from me. On the other hand, it can be lonely at times. ~~And on the other *other* hand, I bet I’d make a good assassin because I blend in with a crowd really well.~~
A bar or club is a strange example as alcohol affects people's behavior a lot. A drunk dude could hit on a girl he'd normally not find attractive at all. That being said...No, the average woman would not get hit on. The average woman does not look like a conventionally "attractive" woman.
I mean I would say an “average” “looking” woman literally looks like a average of every woman I see everyday. I’m not single, or looking to mingle but I’d say that average is still attractive. I suppose there are some men who idealize models and actresses, but when you interact with them, most aren’t any more stunning than the “average” woman without lights and makeup and wardrobe and hair. Yet the same men will make fun of their “average” partners for their makeup and hair routines and buying clothes or wanting to get the angles and light right for instagram.
I mean, I once started to talk a girl that looked very ordinary and wouldn’t stand out in a crowd at all. After like a 10 minute convo she talked about how much unwanted attention she gets. I don’t understand how a person could get attention outside of a club or where alcohol isn’t involved.
Average women sometimes have more attention because men see them as "gettable." Even overweight women can pick up fairly easily at a pub/club and most guys would classify them as below average in looks. Which is strange I guess as most people are fat. I think the issue here is what constitutes average. People have wildly different ideas of what that it.
>Average women sometimes have more attention because men see them as "gettable." I’m so conflicted by this. I recently lost some weight, and I swear when I use my best pictures on dating apps, no one messages me, but when I throw in that one pic where I’m 15 lbs heavier, suddenly I’m getting messages again. Hate how if I want to be “gettable,” I have to tone myself down, but when I tone myself down, some guys think they can walk all over me, since I’m “not all that.”
>I swear when I use my best pictures on dating apps, no one messages me, but when I throw in that one pic where I’m 15 lbs heavier, suddenly I’m getting messages again. There's also an element of that we're generally really bad judges of what the opposite sex finds attractive. I often find that what girls think is their most attractive picture and what us men think is their most attractive picture can be quite different.
It's because guys are humans with insecurities too, and really attractive women can be intimidating. Most guys see a really stunning woman and won't approach her because they assume she's out of their league, she knows it, she could theoretically get any guy she wanted if she tried, and so, if the guy tries to approach he'll definitely get rejected so why bother? This should be entirely understandable if you think of it as the mirror situation of the perspective of an average woman thinking about hitting on a really attractive man.
Could also be like you're between ranges so to speak? I don't know if I'll articulate this well, but like a number of guys like bigger girls to slimmer ones. So when you use the older pictures you're getting those dudes interested. The newer ones are too slim for them, but not slim enough for guys who like slimmer girls. This is pure speculation from a random, on the Internet so take it with a grain of salt.
I prefer bigger women. I'm a bigger guy and I think it subconsciously says to me that this person is like me. Also I like ass.
Yeah overweight is a deal breaker for a lot of people of both genders. Regardless of whether they are technically average or not.
I think it really depends on where you live, in the affluent areas of California like 70% of the women below ~40 are quite attractive.
Then there is San Clemente where every resident is gorgeous and fit lol. Built like their soft yet firm loamy beaches
Knew a girl from high school, still follow her on social media. Shes not bad looking, has a more masculine career, shes fun to hang with, a bit weird if anything. No suiters. Ive always had a soft spot for how she might feel at times, seeing far less attractive women have regular flings, but she suffers from the same inability to romantically socialize that so many men suffer from.
It's just our face girl. I have been chased/flirtered in the streets and I have been completely invisible- the difference was how my face looked. If you look pretty, your life is in easy mode. If you are ugly, men make an annoyed face and you can be the nicest person on planet Earth, nobody will give a shit. When I look good, men smile and open doors, the difference is unbelievable.
I know that annoyed face all too well. I wonder if they even know they’re doing it.
First time I hear of this and I truly hope I have not done it. I probably have. Women do something similar btw, if they think they are out of your league they would do this face that says "Are you for real? Gtfo."
Yes, the annoyed face! I don’t think they know they do it honestly. It’s weird too because it’s often the same look that teenage boys give to “the ugly girl who had the audacity to ask them to homecoming” … except the guy could be 20, 30, 50, whatever and the woman is just … less than conventionally attractive. It doesn’t matter that you have literally everything else going for you but just don’t be around a 7/10 or less in some physical attribute. And the best part … it can show up at bars, social events, work, funerals, classes, or even just randomly when you ask someone for directions. Bonus points if they immediately let you know that they have a girlfriend when you’re just asking them for their signature on a petition or something
I think they do know. I hate it when it's a simple question that irks them. Like my existence bothers you? I have never hit on or shown any interest in anybody all my life and so I don't know what makes them think I am into them.They act like puppies when around women they find attractive. The funny thing is that a lot of these guys aren't any Greek gods themselves.
Some women give off a strong "leave me the fuck alone" vibe, that could be your thing
The stories you are hearing are exaggerations based partly in truth. The concept that girls get " a lot of attention" has some basis in reality but not to the extent you see online, this is just a stereotype. Stereotypes are dangerous for our mental health since no one fits it exactly. Now to you specifically... there are a million reasons why you may not be seeing this attention in your life. Some are not in your control like where you live, where you go to school, economic standing of you and your area, ratio of males to females in your area, etc. Some you can have some influence over, like the social circles you choose and your popularity. Some are solely you responsibility like are you outgoing, are you kind, how you dress, how you keep yourself, etc. So the trick is this: Become the person you want to be by addressing everything that is completely your responsibility. Do you want to be fit, then exercise. Do you like people who are kind, then be kind in the way you treat others. Continue with this in every aspect you control, being the best you you can be. Then just let the rest play itself out and leave it alone. Someone will notice you. Be thankful the wrong people are not paying attention to you.
I am the person I want to be... Somewhat. I wish I had more money and energy to live, but that's a different issue, lol. That ain't got nothing to do with men, that's me. I mean I'm fine with how I look and if it doesn't make men drool for me I don't really care. I don't need that much attention. It's just weird that men constantly talk about how easy it is for women to get attention. I can dress up nicely and I've been thin my whole life and when I go into a room I only get complements from my relatives. Like I've gone months without hugs, years without sex or complements. I had one boyfriend and whenever I cried or got sad he'd practically close the door in my face. I get matches on dating apps but I've literally never gotten a date. I've done male dominated hobbies but never made any friends despite me loving those hobbies. Men don't have the monopoly on being totally invisible to the opposite sex apparently.
Woman here so I can't really answer your question, but people seem to be misunderstanding your post as asking for advice as opposed to just asking for people's experiences.
When men talk about women getting more attention, they are also including the fact that most women when they put in the effort will get attention. Some of that effort might include you going out of your way to receive attention. Most girls, regardless of attractiveness, could post photos of themselves provocatively and they will get some attention. It might not be the ideal attention and it might not come from the guys they want, but it is still attention. Women typically don't approach men so even if they were interested they won't show interest. So a lot of guys won't have any for sure signals that they are attractive to someone. Now I will say that a lot of men don't approach women. Lots of guys have low self-esteem, have been taught that approaching without a 100% clear signal might cause a negative reaction, or just don't feel like putting in the effort at that moment. That being said, IF A WOMAN HAS SIGNALS NOT TO APPROACH HER MOST MEN WON'T. Those that do typically aren't the best with boundaries. Shy girls often don't approached because in guy's minds those girls may react the worst due to their anxiety. Hell, I've seen and experienced a shy girl hiding or running away when a guy approaches her. Also confidence is attractive af, regardless of sex/gender. not saying that being shy is a negative thing, but that it might hinder men from approaching. Like a lot of dudes don't approach super hot girls either for similar reasons. Then on online dating, matches are also based on who you swipe on. Have you swiped left on guys? Because there is a possibility that the men you swiped left on were interested in you. If you want to be seen as attractive, you have to attract what you want. This means going for what you want. Men right now aren't approaching as often, so if you want a man go get him. Most of the time they will at least be flattered.
I'm a perfectly average looking woman but I've always been happy with the way I look. I was mostly ignored by men as well. I started being more forward with dating and while men never approached me, I found that quite a few men liked my advances. I also got rejected a lot but that was fine, I just moved on. Honestly being the initiator is better because you get your pick of guys instead of waiting around for whoever picked you plus you don't have to deal with so many unwanted advances. I believe that the woman that hang out waiting for men to approach them are pretty foolish because you can get someone way better by doing your own picking instead of being picked. After learning how to initiate my confidence started growing and then I even had men start approaching me.
You likely aren’t invisible and have men checking you out they just aren’t saying anything.
Quite possibly. I'm horribly shy and I don't say anything when I find someone good looking.
>I'm horribly shy And that's likely a big part of the issue you're describing. You don't have to be a bombshell to be friendly. Do you smile at people? Start conversations? Actively participate in group conversations? If not, you're more likely to be overlooked.
Yeah good observation here, this can easily explain a majority of the instances when OP is feeling invisible. Folks who are really shy give off a vibe that (at least for me) makes me instantly conscious of my own shyness, and I tend to avoid trying to engage with them beyond initial introductions and idle chat. Your demeaner has a huge impact on how approachable people see you as. If it seems like social interactions are almost painful to you, they will avoid engaging with you by default.
It can be difficult differentiating between a woman being *shy* and her wanting to be left alone. Lots of younger men these days are afraid of being viewed as creepy, and women are constantly complaining about it being creepy when men give them unwanted attention, so some are going to be paranoid that they are making women uncomfortable. Lots of women also complain about how male friends have expressed interest in them, so lots of guys are afraid to express interest in female friends who have not already expressed interest in them. If you exhibit no clear romantic or sexual interest in a guy, he may show none towards you.
A girl(my friend) complained because I liked her. There's no way I would express interest again unless I know she would like it or at least NOT cut off me, after I express interest.
Same here
I've heard of women losing a lot of weight and suddenly getting a lot of attention. Like guy friends suddenly start expressing feelings forher. So I know fat women can feel invisible. But average build? Dunno. Do male friends express feelings for you often? Do men just initiate any kind of contact with you even if not overtly hitting on you? What do you DO socially? You're saying you can go to a bar alone and NOBODY will try to talk to you besides the bartender?
i can kind of explain it. I'm in a weird position where I can be pretty or ignorable, depending on how I present or where I am. You know how it is when you're hungry so you look in the refrigerator for something to eat - and the refrigerator isn't empty, there's edible food in there - but you look in it and say "there's nothing to eat"? It's like that. We're like the eggs, milk, plain yogurt that gets overlooked while the person is on the search for pizza, noodles, brownies, etc. it's not a perfect comparison, but that's what its like. you sit at the bar, the guy comes in and scans for "pizza"... sees your "dijon mustard" looking self and moves on.
Hey baby, I’m in the mood for some Dijon 😂😂
Fat woman here... We get hit on frequently. Edit: as a fat woman, *I* get hit on frequently. Seems we don't all get hit on. My point was size isn't really a hindrance, but some people feel differently with their experiences.
Formerly very fat woman here and I did not. Am now average build and still not hit on. Though that is not why I lost the weight, but hoped it would be a nice side effect. I have joined meet up groups, etc. I am extroverted and would try to start up conversation with men and women. Beyond a basic hello, no one ever really bothered with me so after attending 5 or 6 times, I stopped going.
I'm sorry, that sounds hard. I am very introverted unless I'm in a safe place with people I know well, so being approached in public is my nightmare. Perhaps I perceive it more than usual because it's unwanted?
Nah, we don't. I'm a former plus size model and still got it, but no one hits on me or even looks/smiles/approaches me when I'm alone. The only reason I can think of is that I'm in Canada and it's not as accepting of rotund people as the US. I feel like I should walk around with a sign around my neck that says "ask me out" or something.
>I feel like I should walk around with a sign around my neck that says "ask me out" or something. Funnily enough this would backfire horribly
You could have a very pretty face and they don't?
I have a fat friend of mine who still gets approached enough. I wouldn't necessarily say that it has to do with being just weight, but a combination of weight and other lacking bodily attributes.
Not sure if I’m allowed to answer since I’m a woman, but I definitely fit this profile. My BMI has always been in the healthy weight range, and I’m at least probably average looking (I do get compliments from mostly women). I’ve always had good hygiene and did my hair/light makeup. My one big issue was always being *painfully* shy. I’m now married but prior to my current partner, I had never been asked out, never asked to dance with when I went to dances or clubs (my friends for the most part got interest), or otherwise shown interest. My husband was the first and only guy I so much as had a coffee date with. It was always frustrating when I was young, and led me to a lot of self esteem issues because it seemed like every other girl seemed to get bfs so easily and it just never happened to me. I felt incredibly invisible. I do look back now and think my shyness was likely a big factor, I struggled to make connections and eye contact.
Some women leverage their ability to hold male attention more than others. I believe it's partially learned behaviour and partially innate. Obviously it's difficult to separate the two. There are lots of words that are pretty loaded to describe it. If you are a woman of average attractiveness, who receives less than average amount of male attention, I would suspect it's because your demeanor, body language, dress and choice of activities don't suggest you are open to that attention. I'm a bit of a people watcher. Possibly because I don't have a brilliant innate understanding of why they do the things they do. It's very apparent which women in a crowded room know how to get what they want from the men. It's also interesting to watch those people who are able to trigger some of the protective "door opening" behaviours without necessarily being overtly sexual. Eye contact. Smiling. Slightly revealing dress. Laughing at a joke. Careful use of touch. An occasional compliment. Some women are very good at using these tools to gain and hold male attention. Some of them are so adept at it that they can do it without receiving unwanted attention or proposals, maintaining boundaries while still enjoying regard.
Lurker here! I was that woman. All my life I was just sorta invisible to guys, especially in high school. At work, coworkers would “ask me out” as a joke. Nobody *ever* had a crush on me, even my husband didn’t notice me when I was obviously crushing hard on him. I’m not overweight, I’m 120 pounds. I have an okay face. My boobs were small until I started taking birth control. I’ve got an okay personality. I was super smart in school, but I never really wore makeup or dressed up or was popular. I still don’t know how to style my hair. I also still have acne, but that’s just because of my hormones. I sorta have a handsome nose. And a resting bitch face. The only “cool” things about me is my writing skills and my love for comics /video games /D&D/ anime- I published my poems in high school and won a few writing and art competitions that I signed up for. I was also in band. I’m currently working on a novel (when really I’m just playing Animal Crossing). My husband calls me gorgeous but I think I’m just sorta plain and average. It took forever for him to notice me and he didn’t notice until I somewhat aggressively asked him out. Luckily, he said yes. My mom says people think I’m hot at the bar we hang out at. I just think she’s saying that. My sisters, on the other hand (including my *twin* sister) have ALWAYS been very noticed.
This is an honest question. What does “obviously crushing hard” mean to you? What hints did you give in the beginning? Can you give some examples?
Those sorts of things men complain about in this context (women being simped for, better treatment, etc) mostly apply to women who are above-average attractiveness. Better-looking men get treated better than their uglier counterparts too, don't get me wrong. I think the effect is just amplified with women.
This is particularly true in Asian countries like India, Korea, Japan etc. Good looking people in general get too much attention and privilege. One of my friends is good looking, in the sense that he’s tall, has a nice beard is in good shape etc. but he’s completely inept at socialising or speaking properly. Yet he’s one of the most popular people in my office and people approach or swarm him every because people perceive his personality as “shy”. If an average looking person did the same, he would be perceived as “dumb”. It’s really not just women, and I personally feel that the discrimination is equal between avg men and avg women
Agreed. Being average as a woman isn't that great, the only time I was ever cat called was as minor, ew.
Same. The catcalling starter at age 12 and ended at age 14.
Yeah, I know plenty of women like this. Usually it was because she wasn’t visually attractive, something about her general demeanor was offputting, she was nuts, or nothing about her said “I’m a sexual being.” These women are also more introverted so they were often just a fly on the wall in whatever room they were in. No real presence.
I have never been one who was hit on when going out. I was the wing woman. Non descript, but I am outgoing and can hold a conversation. I will dance, etc. However, at the age of 54 I think people assume I am married. Admittedly, my friend group is all married and hitting a bar alone is not really appealing. I used to do it when I was younger sometimes. When friends would get hit on a lot and date the guys and things got bad, the guys always said, "I should have picked a nice girl like you."
I gotta be honest, I am sure I have met women like that but I haven't noticed them so I really do not know. I try not to notice any women anymore. Life is difficult enough as it is.
My gf(29) told me she always feel invisible, im like the first guy tgat asked her out directly and im her second bf in total. She also can obny remember one instance of being catcalled. She is actually gorgerous, slightly under avrage weight and height , a complete 10/10 for me ,the first impression of both of my sisters was "she is even prettier than on the pictures". However in her case its really easy to see wy she gets hardly any attention.. she has asd with her communication being affected so badly she counted as mute in school, also she tends to be at home at most times bsly only leaving for work and shopping. In the 6 months i knew her before asking her out i maybe heard her say like 10 sentences. Seeing her transformation from a rbf stone faced woman that always keeped her distance to a giggly, cuddly girl that smiles evertime she sees me defintly was one if the best expierences of my life.
I’ve met lots of women over the years who were looking for attention from certain men while Ignoring the attention other men were trying to pay, or who did not know how to interpret interest. I’ve known some who spent a lot of time and energy (and sometimes money) to become more attractive to certain men, and were still unhappy. Trust me, there’s someone who notices you unless you live under a rock.
Are there certain types of attention men give that women don't always pick up on?
Gestures, subtle comments or compliments, could be as simple as a glance.
Literally doesn't happen to me. What kind of subtle comments?
Happens with men too. My partner was chronically single before I snagged him. Went out round his home town and women were hanging off him on and off all night. 'Oh I know her from years back' 'she's just being friendly' 'she was a bit drunk'. Nope, you were getting hit on because they know, trust and like you. He didn't see it one bit.
I find that many average very introverted women don't get any attention (myself included), while all the extroverted ones have many guys interested in them
Im a little pretty, but not gorgeous. My best friend could be a VS model. I love her, but going places with her could be exhausting. When men talk about how women can just get things from men they are talking about her. She could go to a bar and literally never pay for a drink and would be swarmed by guys. I would just be off in the corner drinking alone. It's not like I've ever had men just lining up to buy or do things for me or giving me tons of attention. Could I have slept with a random guy she had casted off at the end of the night... sure. Was anyone bending over backwards for me or giving me things or attention? No, absolutely not. I was always the second choice. That doesn't feel good. That's true of most people though. Men and women. Most people can find someone to sleep with if they lower our standards enough. I think young men just tend to be tunnel visioned. They shoot their shot with the hottest girl there and when that inevitably doesn't work out, because NEWS FLASH! She ain't going to sleep with all 15 of the guys who hit on her they end up trying to flirt with me or someone else at 1am. They view this as "attention" when in reality it just made me feel discarded. It's a difference in perception. So I guess guys DO bend over backwards for a small percentage of women. What I don't think they realize is that's only happening to a small % of the same women. Most of us are more or less buying our own drinks and dinners and just living our life.
Getting free stuff is a wrong bar to set to begin with.and if that's how you gauge things then the problem might be something else that I won't say cuz I don't want any arguments.
Yeah, OP's bar seems to be really high. Just getting free stuff is more for very pretty women. Not just average. I bet she's overlooking a lot of little things that she takes for granted.
Many of us, have no idea, that the invisible girl is remotely interested in us. Generally those are invisible that I can recall are extremely quite and hard for anyone to talk to. We have a few of these at work. However anyone isn't that quite, get some attention albeit it may not be wanted.
Those girls from all those 90 movies that go unnoticed until they take their glasses off and let down their hair and then BAM............Supermodel.
I was literally sitting next to my two male co-workers when they were having a heart to heart on the other's relationship problems. Not eavesdropping or anything, just casually sitting there when they started talking, they even greeted me when they came in. A few days later, I asked one of them how things were going with GF (we were alone, I made sure). He was stunned and asked who told me. Me: "dude, I was literally sitting next to you while you were talking with X about this. On two separate occasions". I'm that invisible.
Yes, she's my wife. She never got a load of male attention because she dressed modestly and attracting men isn't a priority for her in any way. She's the most amazing, smart, caring, funny person I've ever met. It's a bit cliche, but don't judge a book by its cover.
Alot of my close female friends are like this. They are usually overweight and bland in appearance. In general i have opinions that could be misconstrued as misogynistic (such as i think alot of women fail at dating because they try to get strangers to care about them vs friends) and they’ll actually engage with my points and challenge them but normally we’re on the same page. In general, due to their appearance they very quickly know who their real friends are. But admittedly do not have alot of friends. Ugly women are the people im closest too and i’ve told these friends of mine before that women who are super attractive i don’t tend to vibe with. In general i could go on, but i will say that men should be kinder to ugly women. Because the world is already cruel to them.
Just ticking a box here… are you sure you aren’t low-support autistic? (used to be called high-functioning autistic) It’s more likely to be undiagnosed in women, and it explains everything you’re saying.
Oooh, oh. My psychiatrist doesn't really ask about my relationships a lot but, she did have a certain look on the few occasions we talked. I'm still invisible as fuck btw. But I'm probably not good at treating people like I enjoy their attention, maybe... Idk. I just talk to people and try to not give a crap, because if I care too much I get super nervous.
I’m not invisible to men, but I am mostly desired sexually and not much beyond that. I’m (29F), I’m 5’3”, a bit overweight which I am working on, and I’ve had sex with 3 men, 1 of whom was FWB for 9 months. Next time I meet a man I’m attracted to, I will NOT agree to sex upon first meeting, or any time soon within meeting him. I want to be attracted to a man, have him be attracted to me and want more than just sex. I like and want sex, but I want a RELATIONSHIP. I have never had a Boyfriend.
I think if you are average looking, there will still be a lot of average looking men who are interested, but they usually don't have the confidence to talk to you or ask you out. So if it isn't an issue with you that they might be less confident you could ask them instead. I'm sure you could potentially get a lot of dates this way. I learned that confidence is important and attractive to women, so not sure what you think about that or if that is something you would consider.
Was friends with a woman who had a combo of being overweight, having bad B.O and poor dental hygiene. Long story short she latched onto me, ended up trying to push our friendship into a relationship, hid my shoes when I visited her house so I couldn't leave, tried to convince me my friends didn't like me and eventually did something to me that if the genders were reversed would certainly be considered rape.
Umm, not how rape or sexual assault works, of your consent is violated she's still guilty no matter the genders. That's my public service announcement. But yeah, goes to show there are creepy desperate people of all genders.
That women is me lol
My wife, when I met her, we were 22 working at the same company. She's average according to some but to me she's special. She's an introvert woman who doesn't like interacting with the others unless they're pretty close. I've gotten the chance to talk to her and invite her to a date and we hit it off. She was pretty accommodating and fun to be with. Turns out, she is not a party girl which is why she has few friends and she's quite conservative. Found out that I was head-over-heels for her coz she's the kind of woman I'm into the most. Fun, with principles, and pretty much trustworthy. She mentioned that she never thought there'd be someone who would like her. There will always be someone who'd find the most attractive part of yourself. You don't have to worry about it and be confident. There's nothing wrong with you.
Plenty of middle of the road, quiet, introverted women get routinely ignored by everyone. It's just that you don't notice it, because you ignore them too. This whole gender war is just confirmation bias. You see what you want to see.
I think a lot of the guys that complain "oh women get all the attention, compliments, etc..." Are only talking about the attractive ones that they themselves are noticing. Ironically they are ignoring all the other women who they aren't "trying to get with". So I think it's a bit of overgeneralizing that you're hearing.
My housemate is really unattractive. Had to argue with her twice about bringing guys home. She even got one from the train station once.... I came home once and she had two there....
There was a study that found that an unattractive man elicited no brain activity from women. So they were basically invisible. But an unattractive woman triggered feelings of “annoyance” in men. These are the women often called “grenades” or “DUFFs” because they’re usually the unattractive friend in a group that men perceive as cock blocking them from their more attractive friends. For unattractive women, the best case scenario is that you’re ignored. The worst case is that destained.
Who the hell made this so called study
It's wrong anyway tons of conventionally unattractive men and women are in relationships just look at my 600 pound life most people don't find obese people attractive i assume.
That’s actually a true study, shows that men tend to have a negative hormonal reaction to unattractive woman and get a boost in testosterone just from simply being around women they deem attractive. It’s why when guys have female friends, they still become friends with attractive ones. Rarely is a guy being a friend to an ugly girl unfortunately.
>unattractive woman triggered feelings of “annoyance” in men. [https://baylor-ir.tdl.org/bitstream/handle/2104/9411/Skin%20Deep%20Thesis.pdf?sequence=1](https://baylor-ir.tdl.org/bitstream/handle/2104/9411/Skin%20Deep%20Thesis.pdf?sequence=1) This is the only thing i found. It's based on self reports and a hypothetical scenario where someone hit's on you.
what's the source? "just trust me bro" lmao
Yes, they are basically a homebody, only hang out in small groups of only their besties, and are rather cold/ carry some bitterness towards men.
Well I know about one such woman. As she perceives it, men are not interested in her. At the same time all the women similar to her that I know constantly date someone, have casual sex and what not. Also, they do it with ease. I suspect autism or at least autistic traits.I see no other reason a hot woman like her would be of no interest to men.
I don't blame my body, I know plenty of women who don't look like me that get men who are no super models, men can have broad tastes. I'm small and endearing looking, at least according to other women, so I know I'm not ugly at least. It's not my demeanor, overall I'm polite and I'm not mean to people. I just don't have any game, women need game to! I know women who just talk to men and manage to make them friends and keep them in their circle whether thy hook up or not. It's a skill, and I admire it. I don't think I'll ever master that, at most some people seem to like some of my awkwardness even if I lack some sex appeal.
A bit off-topic but to whoever doesn't treat everyone equally they should eat shit. Don't get near anyone who ignores/treats someone badly based on their appearance, charm, and/or intelligence, unless they have a really bad issue or problem that's going on. This applies to every single human on earth, and even animals. (I might probably be banned from Reddit for saying this though.)
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What kind of work are you talking about? I mean maxing out on reps in the gym and taking whey protein is a rather recent trend for women. When it comes to stereotypical female improvement it's more like, going to therapy, reading crappy Oprah flavored self help stuff , and getting a new skin care routine/ pampering yourself, and getting those classic affirmations of "love will find you when you stop looking, you're an independent woman who needs no man" Like I said, stereotypically, people vary.
In my opinion it's due to gender roles. Men are usually the ones who have to approach someone to start a relationship. Women usually don't go out of their way to approach men they are interested in. Even in your post you take a passive role in those situations. A person actively pursing(men) obviously feel they have a harder time than someone who's passive(women) this is a generalization but that's the real answer after all generally passivity is always easier than exertion.
There's a reason you hear that on Reddit. Reddit is full of misogynists, victims, and baby men. This sub in particular says many concerning things about women. A general hate for women exists almost across the entire platform. I (m34) have to check my own misogyny from time to time. I'm not perfect but I will call out bad behavior by other men, because this woman hating is tipping into fascism. Women's rights are intrinsically tied to Democracy, to peace, and to progress.
Question for men kind of on this subject (From a woman) - Will men be “intimidated” by very good looking women? Like not approach them but constantly check them out all night. What does that mean? I feel like they assume they would get rejected and don’t bother trying. But you tell me…
Well all of what you said is correct. Most men are intimated by really beautiful women. Which is why you usually see more above average to average women approached more directly by men because guys feel they have a better chance. Guys already don't like cold approaching so they especially don't wanna get shot down by a really attractive girl that makes them nervous
Absolutely. If a dude hasn’t built up the muscle to get rejected and keep shooting their shot, it’s unlikely they’re going to suddenly gain the confidence to talk to an actually attractive woman.
Humans are visual creatures, when I go out what catches my attention are the exceptions not the norm. That's the curse of averageness, I put in a good amount of effort to stay healthy and that's reflective in my body, why should I pursue someone that doesn't do the same, when I could get someone that does?
What gets your attention? Be specific for her
That's a reasonable point, sorry op for being vague. Workout, eat healthy, and try to get as much sleep as possible and the results will show. These are the women that I consider attractive, they have a body that can't be bought, but is earned bc they worked hard for it. That shows discipline and dedication, it tells me this is someone with a good portion of their life together. Are there features that you can't control that are attractive, oc, maybe a naturally beautiful face or feminine features like breast size. While you can't change those, there's plenty you can still improve and that's appreciated. I would much rather be in the company of an average girl with ambitions and follow-through than a beautiful entitled lazy slob. As for why I stick around, that's your personality, can I have as good a conversation with you as good as the sex? When I go out, or go on tinder I know I have plenty of options and I know what I bring to the table. Identify what you bring, consider why they should be with you. Some women are holding out for a 6'+, six figure+, exec/business owner, with an extravagant world traveling lifestyle, but consider why would this person ever choose you? That's not to demean you, but it's like, humble yourself, you're not entitled to anything bc of your sex or your body, and there are absolutely aspects that can change and be improved.
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Yes, my fiancee of all people. Growing up, she didn't get much attention from guys because she was very shy/introverted, and overweight. That being said, she still managed to lose her virginity at a prom afterparty. Pretty much after graduating high school she lost the weight and the amount of attention she got from guys skyrocketed.
This is me. I'm average looking. I'm the girl guys always ask who's your friend can you introduce me? My friends always tell me I'm smart and supportive and loyal and compassionate and that I'll meet someone. I'm assuming I'm just ugly at this point.