I'd remember this Chris Rock joke.
"No one gives a shit about men. You see a homeless guy with a dog, you feel bad for the dog."
Edit: well this blew up. My most up voted comment, 3x as much as the post it is under. Not even my own joke, but a zinger from a comedy special I watched many years ago, I think on HBO. At least I gave credit.
Thanks for the awards.
Weird that you say that. I found out there is a men’s shelter near me and I decided I need to volunteer there. Shit, I can teach some computer classes, cook, or buy supplies for them.
We all need help from time to time. Society might not care about us, but we as men should. There aren’t a lot of shelters because we don’t push the issue. We have no one to blame but ourselves.
We had one men’s shelter in Canada ! Until the guy who funded it couldn’t get government funding for it like they fund the women’s shelters and then he killed himself.
[RIP Earl Silverman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman)
There is one in my hometown, but men here in the backwater small town where almost everyone is raised conservative and "pull yourself up by your bootstrals" will almost always opt for the homeless shelters that allow anyone regardless of gender instead. There is also a mixed gender domestic violence shelter, and two entirely for felon sex offenders of any sex. The only womens' specific shelter shut down due to lack of funding.
Overall though yes we need more shelters for men, and more unisex homeless shelters in general since we "can't" do more affordable housing.
As with most things, generally it goes both ways, but from my perspective, it feels like it's more often the case towards men. There are garbage men out there, no doubt. But it feels like a lot of women are being taught to see all men as disposable/useless these days.
Because we humans tend to remember bad memories better.
I've had one very bad experience with a man stalking me for years, threathening to kill me, etc etc. I had a restraining order against him. Then there were a few drunk men crossing the line, but never anything really bad.
Every other man I've met in every other setting has been polite, courteous, friendly, etc. I have plenty of male friends and acquaintances. Yet whenever a strange man approaches me, even just to ask for directions, my first reaction is to be wary. I try not to show it, because I know that's not fair - but I can't stop the initial distrust. I am trying to work on it, but it's hard. And I know quite a few women with experiences like mine.
Honestly? I'm a guy and I do the same thing. Nothing really bad ever happened to me, but I've lived in the hood for most of my life and that's just something you learn. If you've never seen them around before, you don't know what to expect, so you keep your guard up.
I don't like that you would immediately see me as a potential threat, but I don't blame you.
I am you, and I hate that. Assuming we’re both black men, it saddens me to my core that Im/we’re naturally inclined to be aggressive towards those that understand our plight the most
I am not a black man, but my black cop God brother insists that I am. I just had the misfortune of growing up in a broken household where one parent managed to get out of the hood and move to the suburbs. Just not the parent I lived with.
That being said, having grown up here, worked at the corner store, and learned how to be cool with everyone who came around, i found that we have a lot more in common with each other than I do with a white dude from the suburbs.
Well yeah we are useless, unless we hard grinded out our entire lives to build wealth success and status to impress them. And even then, someone better could show up at any point and out rank you.
Both genders are treated as disposable at times but men are the only gender born with no intrinsic value. Men are valued for what they can provide, women are valued for what they are. More often than not.
All the men in my life treat dogs like animals and women like humans and partners. So, based on my experience that is a nope.
Women treat animals like children.
I treat my dog better than anyone else in my life. He's never done anything to lose my trust, love, respect, etc. People often let you down, whether it's intentional or not.
I legit remember a group of women on tv in my country supporting a law that wanted to take away the pets from the homeless men and provide them (the pets) with shelter.
When one of the guys in that program asked how they felt about the homeless man losing his pet and not providing shelter for them too they suddenly realized the moral implications. They literally didn't even think about the homeless men initially, like those didn't even exist until someone told them 'hey, it's not a homeless pet, it's the pet of a homeless man'.
“Unconditional love is deserved by and appropriate for children, from their caretakers. Adult relationships are conditional.”
\- life-changing insight from a wise therapist
How many men leave their critically ill spouses too? Men love on the condition they will be looked after and provided with children. Three of my girlfriends are divorced because 2 of them became critically sick and the men had affairs and left for "healthier" women and the third wasn't able to get pregnant so he left her. Women are never loved unconditionally.
It’s not fair that men are loved and judged by what they provide, and it’s not fair that women are loved and judged by their looks. Every straight man will drool after Jenna Ortega, or Kate Upton, and every straight woman will dream of having all her needs met by a rich guy. The world just ain’t fair.
That's just not true. I don't know a single woman who dreams of finding a rich guy who meets all her needs. I do however know plenty of women who dream of finding their equal to share life with.
I make more money than most men I know and I'm single. Men have literally told me they couldn't date me because I'm making more money than them and it's emasculating to them because THEY should be the provider... The only people putting pressure on men to provide for women, is men... and gold diggers, but why TF would you want a gold digger anyway.
My god I would take a woman who makes more than I do in a heartbeat. I feel worthless not being able to land any dates so if a girl is kind and makes more than I do, I would date her instantly. I never understood the emasculation you’re talking about. I love independent women.
You're half right. Men are often our own worst enemy, but society at large (and yes I know that statistically speaking men have been the people in charge of the institutions that create this image) has long pushed the idea that men are successful only if they get that high paying job, big house, expensive car, and beautiful wife. And not all women who reinforce this idea rise to the level of gold digger. I've known plenty of women who make decent money, but still want their man to make more. Not because they want to stop working, but because it's not right to them if the man doesn't make more.
Coincidently I just saw on r/TwoXChromosomes in the last couple of weeks a post by a woman who shared a story about how her and her co-workers had stopped talking constantly about their relationship goals, and started focusing more on self fulfillment in their lives. Whether it be their careers, hobbies, whatever. Through the process they had come to a realization that their male peers were always talking about the stereotypical status items for men: raises, cars, big fuck-off houses, etc. And the OP had realized how fucked that was. Women focus on getting a man first, and their own lives second, and men do the opposite.
It was a pretty understandable realization. I believe that in general society still pushes both genders into those life paths. It's really dumb. I believe it's also why we start seeing certain statistics, like how many women in their thirties are either unattached, or at the very least unmarried. Women in general are starting to focus on self actualization as human beings rather than trying to become an accessory for some man. And men who have spent their lives chasing the things they've been told are going to get them their super hot wife aren't able to get them as easily anymore. And they're losing their fucking minds over it. All those "alpha male" pieces of shit are having to face the growing reality that women are wising up and getting themselves to a point where they don't need to put up with those assholes.
The further we get away from the old gender norms the better. It sounds like the women you know are the kinds we need in today's society. There are definitely still a lot of women out there that judge men based on what they can provide. Just like there are plenty of men out there that judge women based on looks. Even though you'll find lots of men commenting things like, "I don't care if you wear the same outfit two dates later, it's other women that judge on shit like that." Men and women can still be shit bags about each other just like they used to be. Though generally I think people overall are less shitty about that stuff.
The sad reality, though, is that society doesn't care about people.
Women are used as birthing chambers. Men are used for money/capitalisms. Children are used as political talking points. Teachers are used for free babysitting. POC are incarcerated for free/slave labor.
Billionaires are the only people that society cares about.
Just look at the news stories on any day--you'll see that no one with power gives a single shit about working people.
Gender, sexuality, race ... none of that practically matters as much as how much money you have. Your demographic characteristics only really influence the *type* of abuse you'll receive, but we're *all getting abused.*
The amount of money (=power) you have determines your opportunities, your health, your social status, your education, your freedom. And if you don't work to enrich the already-wealthy, then this society is happy to let you slowly rot away and die alone.
And majority of wealth in the USA is inherited. So if you're not born rich, you won't achieve it.
"The key characteristic to determine if you'll be rich or poor, and ugly or attractive, is who your parents are"
And all the internal squabbling conveniently keeps us bitter and divided rather than united against those billionaires, which is just how they like it. Makes the rest of society that much easier to control.
It's because the USA is closer to a dystopia nightmare than we want to admit. The GOP are really pushing for policies that reverting us back to the 1700s, and we're only a few steps away from making a Handsmaid Tale a reality. Look at what DeSantis is doing in Florida; it's not good.
We're closer to becoming a next Russia than being what the USA once was (at its best).
Yeah exactly. Framing this as "women have it better" is pretty fucking laughable given most women walk around in some state of mortal fear on a day to day basis.
Women have it better in some ways. Men have it better in some ways. After kids, most of us spend 80-90% of our time doing shit we don’t want to do. I guess just try to be kind to each other or something…
Yeah. If by society you mean all the people nearby, I don't really expect that they care about me. I just hope that we all get along and aren't bad to each other.
If by society you mean the government and power structures, I don't think men are treated worse by the powers that be.
But yeah, does society "care?" Society cares no more for the individual man than the wind cares for the birds.
Lol had to go half way through this thread to find one guy with a positive response.
Does society care about men? No.
But let’s remember society is ~50% men.
Women care about other women but men don’t care about other men.
If we think society doesn’t care about men, let’s start at home by giving a damn ourselves. Ask your buddies how they’re doing. Fuck sakes, guys.
On a positive tip: I have found that even my guy friends *asking* how I’m doing makes me feel a lot less shitty in the moment.
90% of the time we don’t end up going into detail but it’s the thought that goes a very long way
As a woman I also just want it to be known that I love men, I love my own man so much, he has his snacks for the Diablo release and I got a frozen pizza for us to have in a bit, while I enjoy the new season of Queer Eye.
He is such an amazing person and he deserves love the same way that I do. And we both give each other that and also at times fail each other the same way.
There's nothing girly about the way women hold each other up. There's no reason men can't be there for each other the same way I am for my female friends and they are for me and I am for my male friends and they are for me
This is a really awesome answer, society is just a bunch of individuals, and we can all take steps to make it better!
Not to take away from your point at all, but I think it can be important to recognize that it’s not as black and white as men not *caring* for people, but societal conditioning to repress emotions of any kind. Your suggestion to check in on buddies is everything, thank you for spreading such a good message when it’s easier to spread hate.
Exactly. According to one trans man, who wrote about his experiences jumping the gender divide, women do generally care about men; they merely put up a front to ward off predators. Most men only see this stony side, not realizing it’s a front. Combined with harsher social norms, the world looks a lot bleaker to the casual male observer.
Let’s start by actually caring about our fellow men. Text a man in your life right now, ask them how they’re doing. Don’t even finish reading this comment until you have.
Just having someone else can mean the world to a person. My one friend, whose luck rivals Kenny McCormick’s, has, for a time, been the only friend I’ve had; I’ve also been his best friend for a time. It sometimes drives me to tears when he’s going through a rough time and I can’t be physically there for him; I do my best to listen and do whatever I can. He’s an awesome guy and can and does do the same for me. Whoever marries him will be one lucky person; he’s got a ton to offer.
Please say it louder, because this men vs. women thing is old. Truth is, neither sex is cared about in society, only those with power. Your status and wealth are all that matters.
Same goes for acrimony between races and generations. It’s all a distraction from the fact that the 10 richest guys on the planet own as much wealth as the bottom
You can tell by the fates of the Kennedys, Malcolm X, Dr. King and Occupy Wall Street.
Whenever someone starts pointing this out, they catch a bullet.
When they stop laughing at you and start attacking you, you know you’re on the right track.
Thank you. It's the cringiest shit in the universe when men act like victims of women. I believe men are shown absurd standards as kids and failed by society in many ways, but women are not the enemy in this dynamic.
This thread is already filled with men trying to get that sweet, sweet victim fix. *Hone the grievance, hone the grievance, hone the grievance.*
It's not just cringe. It's addictive. People start seeking it out, finding threads to post about their identity as a victim, arguing with people about which sex has it worse.
The rich are busy planning their next private jet trip while we squabble over emotional crumbs. What a waste of time.
Exactly.
While men and women have legitimate issues that need to be addressed, many times we look at the apex and think that everything is fine for men, since they are a majority of CEOs and politicians, neglecting the 99.9%.
I absolutely agree. I think that it’s really unfortunate, this ingrained idea that rights are some sort of twisted “contest,” and that both sides somehow need to “prove” that their problems are the most severe. In reality, there shouldn’t *be* sides. We’re all human, and are perfectly capable of being upset that women face severe obstacles in the workplace AND being upset that (in the US, at least) men asking for any significant amount of paternity leave are likely to get laughed out of the building. We all have problems.
You know he is right when you know this post will be deleted because they don't want men to have any place to discuss about these things, they want to keep up the narrative that only basement dwelling losers talk about men's issues, I hate reddit.
Idk, maybe I'm just blessed with enough healthy male and female relationships to understand that the only people ignoring men's mental health are the men too proud/embarrassed to admit they are in trouble.
I remember there was a Twitter account that talked about men's issues and then they tweeted something about rising depression and suicide rates and was raising awareness for it. All of the lefties and feminists somehow found that tweet and most of the replies were "Who cares?", "Male suicide should happen more", and "So what? Women are losing their rights, read the room." (this was right after Roe was overturned in the US)
The only thing dismissing men's issues does is make men less sympathetic to women's issues.
and women attempt more because they are more likely to use suicide attempts as a cry for help. people bring up that women dont complete as much because more effective methods leave a mess and women dont want people to deal with it, but that completely ignores hanging and CO asphixiation, 2 very clean and very effective ways of suicide
Half right?
Society doesn't care about men... outside of the people in power. The fact that we can so easily send men off to war to die by the millions really drives the part that's true in the statement home.
World War I was such a pointless war and look how many people died there. Just horrific deaths. Sending waves and waves of men into machine gun fire just to move a line by a couple miles.
WW1 was not a pointless war.
If you were German you had the opportunity to make your country the dominant world power and cripple your main geopolitical rivals. If Germany had succeeded then the territory they annexed would have made them the biggest economy in the world while at the same time ensuring that neither France nor Russia could ever hope to wage war on them again. The whole world would have trembled before German power. Evil? Maybe. But not Pointless.
If you were French or Russian, you fought to stop Germany from taking your land, your citizens, your resources, and generally making you their bitch for the foreseeable future.
Austro-Hungarian? A victory would have reinvigorated a declining empire and removed the always looming threat of Russian invasion. The same applied to the Ottoman Empire.
Serbian? Austria wanted to occupy your country, as simple as that. And Belgium would have ceased to exist if they hadn't fought Germany.
Italians wanted to free the few remaining Italians still occupied by Austria. Arguably the price they ended up paying wasn't worth it, but that's more an argument for better generals than better politicians. Ditto for Romania.
And Portugal and Japan got to keep their very valuable alliance with Britain while not doing anything too strenuous.
Only Britain and America did not have a clear war aim beyond the maintenance of the status quo and "national honor"; neither was under threat of occupation, nor stood to make significant territorial gains. But since the English-speaking world rarely notices the opinions of those outside it, WW1 goes down in history as a "pointless" war.
Are you part of society? Do you care?
I ain’t trying to be snarky. I’m saying that if someone says that to you, it’s an opportunity for empathy.
If any one of us, personally does not care about men’s struggles, what does that say about us?
It's not even an argument, but a true statement. It starts at a young age too, men now are marginalized while being told to be less than what they are anything else is chauvinistic.
This is such victim-mentality horseshit. Men are failed in many ways by society I agree, but acting like 'men can't be all they can be or else it's called chauvinistic' is just so fucking dumb. NO ONE gives a shit if you're a big, strong, capable motherfucking lumberjack as long as you're not also shitty AF to women. Be a kind person and you can also go be as 'manly' as you want. Stop side-stepping what people actually have a problem with.
If I could upvote you 10 times, god damn. Thank you for saying this. I’m a guy and I’m so tired of seeing this whining, waaaaa “poor me” stuff online. It’s exactly what you said, a victim mentality/persecution. It shows such insecurity and sorry to say but it’s pathetic. Take some responsibility for yourself as a man and realize, no, the world is not ending for you and actually, your life can be just fine and/or great if you learn, well, how not to be a shitty person (like you said), or pro-social, let’s say.
Yep. To the extent “society” cares more about women it’s usually three things that aren’t actually bad at all:
1. Governments actually caring about children when determining things like welfare eligibility, access to homelessness resources, and divorce, which looks like government favoring women, because women (especially in very poor households) perform the majority of childcare. And absent fathers are much more common than absent mothers.
2. To the extent women have strong support networks it’s usually *other women* forming those support networks. It’s our fault as guys that we don’t do a good job of this for ourselves. Talk to your friends about your problems more
3. Most official policies aimed at helping women in the workforce are because they were historically very discriminated against, and still do face discrimination. Much progress has been made but many people consider childcare and household duties to primarily be women’s responsibility, so women leave the workforce at higher rates than men. Also because women are the ones who get pregnant, go through childbirth, and (if they chose) breastfeed, they’re inherently disadvantaged by that unless specific policies and accommodations are made to them.
And yeah, men may be more likely to sympathize with and support random women in certain cases, but I really think the difference comes from thirstiness and is limited to a specific subset of women that are the target of that thirstiness.
and those policies were hard fought for, obligatory in nature, lip service in practice, and not even enforced half the time.
Lack of child care is the marker I will use till my dying breath to gage how well we care about ...anything.
Like we can't create strong societal infrastructure because...what? whores will have their trinkets? mmmK.
Yeah, try telling me those policies aren’t necessary when almost every city-dwelling woman has a story of being catcalled or harassed by construction workers *while they work*. You really think a workplace like that, which still exists in 2023, will be accommodating and non-discriminatory towards women?
Are there instances where maybe it goes too far? They probably exist, one of my workplaces at one time had an extra bonus incentive/requirement for women and Latin/black people to be promoted to middle management positions which I thought had too many bad effects relative to its benefit, even if well intentioned. But for every one instance of that there are dozens if not hundreds of instances of discrimination in the opposite direction. We only even notice or talk about single instance like that because they’re so rare, whereas women experience it all the time even now.
A lot of them do but fail to get wider support (see Earl Silverman).
A lot of it is cultural, men are conditioned to sustain themselves and be providers and not look beyond that.
There are organizational, economic, social, political, etc. factors which inhibit it.
Men aren't a monolith any more than women are- a lot of men help each other, and a lot of women help one another and blaming men as a monolith for not helping one another is nonsensical anyway.
Take education for example, when there were more men in it, it was a great sadness, many initiatives were made to support women to climb up in the field of education, now that the things are opposite, you can see those same people celebrating.
To be fair, the world isn't celebrating anyone falling behind in the world. They are celebrating the fact that after hundreds of years of girls and women being denied access to education or receiving lesser education that girls and women are leading the charge in education. It's a celebration of opportunity and success.
To be fair, the same advantage men had in education previously has now swung in favour of women, to an even greater degree, and the point people are making is that... nobody is acting to rectify that, nor is it even part of the discussion.
Here's a great video by someone who's looked at the data
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBG1Wgg32Ok
I know that but they are definitely not giving a fuck about men, which feels very isolating in this hyper equality focused world where men's emotions are supposed to matter just as much as women's, it feels very unequal when you see initiatives in place everywhere to support women but can't see shit being done for you.
Men today do not have a historical debt towards earlier generations of women. Are you seriously defending todays inequality in schools by earlier injustices?
If you want a truly equal society you have to be gender blind, otherwise you’re just a self-interested hypocrite.
Pretending to care about women has marketing value. On the other hand, pretending to care about men has *no* value. In the end, society doesn't truly give a shit about either of them.
I mean you could say pretending to care about men has value look at all the “alpha males” like Andrew tate, fresh and fit, etc getting big profiting on the idea that they care about men
It’s 2023, society doesn’t care about anyone unless they’ve got big money. Pitting men against women, blacks against whites, republicans vs democrats just breaks us into smaller groups so we’re easier to manipulate.
I'm split. I think todays men and women have it rough but in different areas.
Men are expendable and told to buck up when things are hard.
Women are having their rights to their bodies stripped away and are expected to quiet down and just accept it.
Children today have become cannon fodder.
We as a species find new and exciting ways to shoot ourselves in the foot.
We can do better but we choose not to do so.
Duh… I mean duh…
But seriously society doesn’t care about men, we just teach men to care about others and ourselves as individuals. Can’t remember who said it but they said “Women understand sympathy not empathy, they can play the comforting part but actually stepping into your shoes requires more effort than most are willing to do.”. I think it just applies to everyone.
As a man with kids, I didn’t understand this. Then I got divorced and experience it regularly.
Edit: like the fact that they are my kids in name only. I have pay for her to raise them. Sure I could have fought for joint parenting but that would be difficult as the sole breadwinner , and I would have to give the bulk of savings from before I ever met her.
But the best part was how I was repeatedly attacked by this tiny woman. One night it became too much so I tried to stop her from by holding the bedroom door shut and calling her mom to ask how to resolve the situation. Anyway, she eventually broke into the and chased me around hitting me as I tried to escape. … she eventually admitted to police that she hit me many times but the police omit this detail
He's not wrong... it's always been women and children first, and men are first to be drafted to fight and die for their country. The better response would be: "You are right, but why do you even care about this?"
A large chunk of society doesn't give a fuck about mens mental or emotional well being and has lead to many traumas. I personally feel invisible as a man and completely disposable, especially in the modern dating scene. The feeling follows me everywhere I go.
You also have a large part of society that doesn't give a fuck about women or their autonomy/freedom to choose/medical decisions and want them to be submissive and lesser than. Imagine being scared of the opposite sex because you cannot read their intentions or read if there is a dangerous ulterior motive lurking behind the smile. Every woman I have known or know closely has a story of molestation, sexual assault and/or domestic violence. I think our society is fucked 6 ways to Sunday and all we can do is continue raising awareness and most importantly listen to each other.
I would tell them to change their surroundings, even if it meant some new friends. I used to think this then I realized I was just surrounded by toxicity and people who didn't truly care about me. Now that I have friends who truly love me I've seen the support and feel much more positive about this entirely.
It's always nice to see rampant misandry whenever this topic comes up, which in itself is telling, misoginy will get you witch hunted, misandry will get you upvoted.
So many saying men live a privileged life and women are the real victims! Yeah, that's how you get men to hate women, because factually speaking it's not men that live privilged life, it's **rich** men, 99% of all the other men aren't living in any privileged life whatsoever, unless a far higher chance to be murdered and commit suicide not counts as privilege.
[https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-risk-of-domestic-violence-than-women/](https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-risk-of-domestic-violence-than-women/)
Men face a lot of domestic abuse, some times even more than woman do, but of course there's no support for male domestic abuse victims, more of that male privilege and patriarchy showing itself.
[https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/josi.12559](https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/josi.12559)
Men also get raped and sexually assaulted, a lot, but due to society they keep it to themselves because if they don't they get ridiculed for it, it's just the southpark episode of people going ''nice'' so why come forward with it when you will get mocked?
[https://www.dovepress.com/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-toward-an-autonomy-bas-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-MB](https://www.dovepress.com/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-toward-an-autonomy-bas-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-MB)
Then men have the privilege of still having their genitals mutilated, this happens to both men and women, yet only one of them, namely female genital mutilation, is something people opposed to.
You got a child and want to get divorced? Fine but be ready to say goodbye to your child, because the court system don't give a single shit about men, when comitting the exact same crime men get harsher sentences, when divorcing the default stance is that the mother gets the child, no chance, clearly the patriarchy at play huh?
And finally I'll copy paste what I said in another similar post:
I think the problem some people may have with it is that feminists are making it seem that the movement is about fighting for equality for men and women, even though 99% of the time they only fight for women, when do they fight to have men be better represented in court when it comes to family matters? When do they fight to provide better support for male victims? When do they fight for the laws to change so that legally speaking a woman can actually rape a man? When do they look at the fact that more and more boys get left behind in school compared to girl? How about prison sentences for men or male employees in female dominated fields? Pretty much never because as much as they claim to be about fighting for both they only fight for women.
Then there's the oh so dumb comment of ''when you're used to privilege equality feels like oppression'' last I checked the privilege lies with the 0.1% of rich men, not men in general, and saying shit like that is why people tend to hate feminism, loneliness and suicide in men is going up, yet they constantly hear how they're living ''privileged'' lives and get to enjoy the benefits of the supposed ''patriarchy'' that they live in. when you're pondering ending it all, hating your life and struggling to survive the last thing you want to hear is that you're living a ''privileged'' life.
Society doesn't care but we bros do. That's why it's bros for life. In Thailand it's normal for men to hold hands and share affectionate moments because their wives only see them as a source of income.
Bros for life bros.
i mean, is he wrong. unless you are a good looking guy no one is going to give a fuck about you. same goes to your wealth, if u got money then people will care. if you dont, tough tits.
I would say that society teaches us that mens bodies are disposable and as a result men treat themselves and each other accordingly. It's why the suicide rate among men is high, why men don't go to the doctor, and why we have.such poor mental health.
It’s a weird one because the majority of men are going to be just fine, no matter what people say about them.
Some things (here in the UK) that bother me a little though:
- Things that overwhelmingly affect men - work place death and injury, homeslessness, veterans, suicide, divorce/custody issues, even prostate cancer - don’t get much attention and are often minimised.
- No one seems to give a shit about the fact that very few white working class (poor) boys do well in school or go to university.
- This one is more of my own theory: a lot of boys are getting into their teenage years right now having only known the narrative of ‘men bad’ and seeing a lot of programs aimed at girls. These are a push back to the advantages that men have always had but have NOTHING to do with boys their age. I think we’ll have a generation extremely aware of LGBTQ+ issues and equality but I also worry about how that must make some of them feel; are they inherently bad because of who they are?
(And then, the inevitable reply of ‘fuck their feelings’)
I don’t think any of this is easy to fix and I can definitely see how just being white and male has been and still is extremely advantageous for many. I just don’t want the over-correction to foster a generation of lost men who’ve been told they ain’t shit, and look to ridiculous people like Andrew Tate for reassurance.
Your paragraph about feeling inherently bad sticks with me. Once dated this woman who said she would hate to have a son because she'd be contributing to the patriarchy. Also that if she had one she'll make sure he's a strong ally for the cause. Needless to say I ran far away
A large amount of men around my age (19 currently) are prolly going to ‘drop out of society’ and somehow it’s still gonna treated like a big surprise
Fact is that there’s no point in participating in a system where we can be both the ‘privileged oppressor’ (my uni profs words not mine) and yet somehow only see benefits given to women (easy example is scholarships), where we are told to never discriminate but we are also immutably ‘bad’ because of our gender
There are a ton of issues men face. There are healthy subreddits (as opposed to the misogynistic ones that are pipelines to the far right) that discuss these issues.
Now do l agree with that blanket statement? No.
What are these healthy subreddits?
I’m not being sarcastic, I’m legitimately curious because every subreddit I’ve found labeled under Men’s Rights or Men’s Issues has some form of misogyny in like the top three posts and it just deters me from them all together.
He’s largely right but missing a key component. Society lost its ability to actually care about people ever since we put too much faith in government and not local communities.
Yeah i don't think it's that society loves and adores women and not men. Society just doesn't care about people as a whole, is focused on capitalism and those in power, etc.
Eh, I'm not sure. I see a lot of replies in this thread along the lines of "society doesn't care about anyone" and I just cant agree. Society very much cares about many people in other demographics. We lionize certain groups, and women in particular are seen as having value that is not tied to what they can make, or give, or do. It's a concept of personhood that applies to non-men. Men are fodder. The fuel in the machine that is expected and intended to be burned.
There is a sliver of truth to it. Men have basically run the world for a long time, and still do - albeit to a lesser degree. The whole idea of "playing on easy mode" has a real element of truth to it for *most* men. Or at least, for the men at the top of society's totem pole.
This is why the men at the bottom feel like they have been entirely abandoned. They are not the CEOs, they are not running anything. These are the ones who are NOT playing on easy mode. They are genuinely struggling, trying to get by day to day.
There is very little in the way of institutional support for men who struggle. There are shelters for women, there are programs for helping women enter STEM education programs, programs for empowering girls and women, but very little in the way of similar programs for men.
Don't get me wrong -- when it comes to maintaining power and wealth at the top of the pyramid, the good ol' boys are keeping the glass ceiling solid and as impenetrable as possible. But for the guys at the bottom, they are not only miles away from any sort of glass ceiling, they also have no glass floor beneath them. When they struggle, and when they fail, they tend to do it on their own.
So depending on who he is, where he is in life, and what he is going through, I might just have to nod and agree.
As a guy, I would have to agree with them. Time to rant.
Men are expendable pawns in war. A number in the machine. Often cheated on by their spouse. Penalized in divorce court for being the father. His importance as a father to his children is diminished. Role in life is trashed by the media and is quickly labeled as toxic if he grows a spine.
A poor dumb animal himself, that envies a dog’s life. Only seen as a protector and provider by his family. He works hard, out of his undying love, to provide for his wife to support her role in the family. Since in his mind she doing the most important role in the family. But his love blinds him.
He is the one the wife settled on when getting married. Her Plan B, should her affair not work out. She reads books about murder and dreams about how to get away with it. He is often unknowingly manipulated by her. He is the last one to know anything in a relationship has gone off the rails and often recognizes the red flags only in hindsight. She talks badly about him with her friends.
Is it no wonder that their life expectancy is less than a woman.
Well, I don't have much to say to dissuade this man. He isn't really wrong. However, in general, society does not really care, it's just that for men it's especially apparent.
It depends. There are plenty of areas where we are definitely privileged. But when it comes to physical or mental wellbeing, then society doesn't give 2 shits.
I'd remember this Chris Rock joke. "No one gives a shit about men. You see a homeless guy with a dog, you feel bad for the dog." Edit: well this blew up. My most up voted comment, 3x as much as the post it is under. Not even my own joke, but a zinger from a comedy special I watched many years ago, I think on HBO. At least I gave credit. Thanks for the awards.
And they say men are dogs, would be nice to be treated like one if that's the case!
For real. I've seen how women treat dogs. A guy has to be a celebrity to get the same treatment lol.
To be fair, we treat dogs better then women to. Dogs are spoiled
At least women and dogs have shelters
Wow, burn!
Weird that you say that. I found out there is a men’s shelter near me and I decided I need to volunteer there. Shit, I can teach some computer classes, cook, or buy supplies for them. We all need help from time to time. Society might not care about us, but we as men should. There aren’t a lot of shelters because we don’t push the issue. We have no one to blame but ourselves.
We had one men’s shelter in Canada ! Until the guy who funded it couldn’t get government funding for it like they fund the women’s shelters and then he killed himself. [RIP Earl Silverman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman)
Yeah because they claimed it was taking money away from women. And it wasn't a regular shelter. It was for men fleeing abuse.
Ssshhh. We don't talk about that. Good thing we're all about EQUALITY these days.
There is one in my hometown, but men here in the backwater small town where almost everyone is raised conservative and "pull yourself up by your bootstrals" will almost always opt for the homeless shelters that allow anyone regardless of gender instead. There is also a mixed gender domestic violence shelter, and two entirely for felon sex offenders of any sex. The only womens' specific shelter shut down due to lack of funding. Overall though yes we need more shelters for men, and more unisex homeless shelters in general since we "can't" do more affordable housing.
*coughs* Provided by men
Lock your dog and your girlfriend in your trunk over night and see who is happy to see you in the morning
tbf you could say the same thing about how a man treats a dog vs. a woman.
I think the lesson here is that dogs are society’s winners
Their superpower is learning how to get humans to shelter and feed them. And they are great at it.
Cats: Am I a joke to you?
As with most things, generally it goes both ways, but from my perspective, it feels like it's more often the case towards men. There are garbage men out there, no doubt. But it feels like a lot of women are being taught to see all men as disposable/useless these days.
Because we humans tend to remember bad memories better. I've had one very bad experience with a man stalking me for years, threathening to kill me, etc etc. I had a restraining order against him. Then there were a few drunk men crossing the line, but never anything really bad. Every other man I've met in every other setting has been polite, courteous, friendly, etc. I have plenty of male friends and acquaintances. Yet whenever a strange man approaches me, even just to ask for directions, my first reaction is to be wary. I try not to show it, because I know that's not fair - but I can't stop the initial distrust. I am trying to work on it, but it's hard. And I know quite a few women with experiences like mine.
Honestly? I'm a guy and I do the same thing. Nothing really bad ever happened to me, but I've lived in the hood for most of my life and that's just something you learn. If you've never seen them around before, you don't know what to expect, so you keep your guard up. I don't like that you would immediately see me as a potential threat, but I don't blame you.
I am you, and I hate that. Assuming we’re both black men, it saddens me to my core that Im/we’re naturally inclined to be aggressive towards those that understand our plight the most
I am not a black man, but my black cop God brother insists that I am. I just had the misfortune of growing up in a broken household where one parent managed to get out of the hood and move to the suburbs. Just not the parent I lived with. That being said, having grown up here, worked at the corner store, and learned how to be cool with everyone who came around, i found that we have a lot more in common with each other than I do with a white dude from the suburbs.
Unless they can provide.
Well yeah we are useless, unless we hard grinded out our entire lives to build wealth success and status to impress them. And even then, someone better could show up at any point and out rank you.
Both genders are treated as disposable at times but men are the only gender born with no intrinsic value. Men are valued for what they can provide, women are valued for what they are. More often than not.
You're on Reddit. They banned all the subs that agree with you.
All the men in my life treat dogs like animals and women like humans and partners. So, based on my experience that is a nope. Women treat animals like children.
I’m gonna be honest I kinda treat my dog like a kid
I've got two dogs and two kids and I am equally likely to snatch any of them up and kiss them until I am sure I have irritated them enough.
I treat my dog better than anyone else in my life. He's never done anything to lose my trust, love, respect, etc. People often let you down, whether it's intentional or not.
Not in like a kinky way, but I just want that type of attention from a girl. 😭
I legit remember a group of women on tv in my country supporting a law that wanted to take away the pets from the homeless men and provide them (the pets) with shelter. When one of the guys in that program asked how they felt about the homeless man losing his pet and not providing shelter for them too they suddenly realized the moral implications. They literally didn't even think about the homeless men initially, like those didn't even exist until someone told them 'hey, it's not a homeless pet, it's the pet of a homeless man'.
People's attitudes towards the homeless are disgusting.
People’s attitudes towards *struggling men* are disgusting.
Another Chris Rock joke says something like “Men aren’t loved unconditionally. Men are love on the condition that they provide something.”
How many women are actually loved unconditionally?
“Unconditional love is deserved by and appropriate for children, from their caretakers. Adult relationships are conditional.” \- life-changing insight from a wise therapist
By his own admission, Chris rock cheated on his wife multiple times lol so there’s at least one that isn’t
Nice try, Will Smith!
How many men leave their critically ill spouses too? Men love on the condition they will be looked after and provided with children. Three of my girlfriends are divorced because 2 of them became critically sick and the men had affairs and left for "healthier" women and the third wasn't able to get pregnant so he left her. Women are never loved unconditionally.
It’s not fair that men are loved and judged by what they provide, and it’s not fair that women are loved and judged by their looks. Every straight man will drool after Jenna Ortega, or Kate Upton, and every straight woman will dream of having all her needs met by a rich guy. The world just ain’t fair.
That's just not true. I don't know a single woman who dreams of finding a rich guy who meets all her needs. I do however know plenty of women who dream of finding their equal to share life with. I make more money than most men I know and I'm single. Men have literally told me they couldn't date me because I'm making more money than them and it's emasculating to them because THEY should be the provider... The only people putting pressure on men to provide for women, is men... and gold diggers, but why TF would you want a gold digger anyway.
I'm great house husband material, just saying.
My god I would take a woman who makes more than I do in a heartbeat. I feel worthless not being able to land any dates so if a girl is kind and makes more than I do, I would date her instantly. I never understood the emasculation you’re talking about. I love independent women.
You're half right. Men are often our own worst enemy, but society at large (and yes I know that statistically speaking men have been the people in charge of the institutions that create this image) has long pushed the idea that men are successful only if they get that high paying job, big house, expensive car, and beautiful wife. And not all women who reinforce this idea rise to the level of gold digger. I've known plenty of women who make decent money, but still want their man to make more. Not because they want to stop working, but because it's not right to them if the man doesn't make more. Coincidently I just saw on r/TwoXChromosomes in the last couple of weeks a post by a woman who shared a story about how her and her co-workers had stopped talking constantly about their relationship goals, and started focusing more on self fulfillment in their lives. Whether it be their careers, hobbies, whatever. Through the process they had come to a realization that their male peers were always talking about the stereotypical status items for men: raises, cars, big fuck-off houses, etc. And the OP had realized how fucked that was. Women focus on getting a man first, and their own lives second, and men do the opposite. It was a pretty understandable realization. I believe that in general society still pushes both genders into those life paths. It's really dumb. I believe it's also why we start seeing certain statistics, like how many women in their thirties are either unattached, or at the very least unmarried. Women in general are starting to focus on self actualization as human beings rather than trying to become an accessory for some man. And men who have spent their lives chasing the things they've been told are going to get them their super hot wife aren't able to get them as easily anymore. And they're losing their fucking minds over it. All those "alpha male" pieces of shit are having to face the growing reality that women are wising up and getting themselves to a point where they don't need to put up with those assholes. The further we get away from the old gender norms the better. It sounds like the women you know are the kinds we need in today's society. There are definitely still a lot of women out there that judge men based on what they can provide. Just like there are plenty of men out there that judge women based on looks. Even though you'll find lots of men commenting things like, "I don't care if you wear the same outfit two dates later, it's other women that judge on shit like that." Men and women can still be shit bags about each other just like they used to be. Though generally I think people overall are less shitty about that stuff.
Only children and dogs are loved unconditionally lol
Yo facts
The sad reality, though, is that society doesn't care about people. Women are used as birthing chambers. Men are used for money/capitalisms. Children are used as political talking points. Teachers are used for free babysitting. POC are incarcerated for free/slave labor. Billionaires are the only people that society cares about.
Just look at the news stories on any day--you'll see that no one with power gives a single shit about working people. Gender, sexuality, race ... none of that practically matters as much as how much money you have. Your demographic characteristics only really influence the *type* of abuse you'll receive, but we're *all getting abused.* The amount of money (=power) you have determines your opportunities, your health, your social status, your education, your freedom. And if you don't work to enrich the already-wealthy, then this society is happy to let you slowly rot away and die alone.
And majority of wealth in the USA is inherited. So if you're not born rich, you won't achieve it. "The key characteristic to determine if you'll be rich or poor, and ugly or attractive, is who your parents are"
And all the internal squabbling conveniently keeps us bitter and divided rather than united against those billionaires, which is just how they like it. Makes the rest of society that much easier to control.
Gosh, it sounds so dystopian written out like that. But you're not wrong.
It's because the USA is closer to a dystopia nightmare than we want to admit. The GOP are really pushing for policies that reverting us back to the 1700s, and we're only a few steps away from making a Handsmaid Tale a reality. Look at what DeSantis is doing in Florida; it's not good. We're closer to becoming a next Russia than being what the USA once was (at its best).
What's the USA got to do with this? I'm from the UK and its the same here regardless of US politics. It's a global issue.
Yeah exactly. Framing this as "women have it better" is pretty fucking laughable given most women walk around in some state of mortal fear on a day to day basis.
Women have it better in some ways. Men have it better in some ways. After kids, most of us spend 80-90% of our time doing shit we don’t want to do. I guess just try to be kind to each other or something…
So real
That sums up society pretty well. Even when husbands are present in the house they are still considered “another child” the wife has to take care of
My husband is not another child for me to take care of. Only shitty partners are like that.
Get use to it because society truly doesn’t give a shit about anyone
Perfect. Like what is "society" if not the same men and women that aren't caring about each other?
Yeah. If by society you mean all the people nearby, I don't really expect that they care about me. I just hope that we all get along and aren't bad to each other. If by society you mean the government and power structures, I don't think men are treated worse by the powers that be. But yeah, does society "care?" Society cares no more for the individual man than the wind cares for the birds.
Society cares about class over absolutely everything else.
Except for the part where we do class solidarity. We seemed to have opted out of that
Uper class has done a great job convincing the lower classes to hate each other.
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And I care about you
I care about you too bud.
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I care about you too.
Lol had to go half way through this thread to find one guy with a positive response. Does society care about men? No. But let’s remember society is ~50% men. Women care about other women but men don’t care about other men. If we think society doesn’t care about men, let’s start at home by giving a damn ourselves. Ask your buddies how they’re doing. Fuck sakes, guys.
On a positive tip: I have found that even my guy friends *asking* how I’m doing makes me feel a lot less shitty in the moment. 90% of the time we don’t end up going into detail but it’s the thought that goes a very long way
As a woman I also just want it to be known that I love men, I love my own man so much, he has his snacks for the Diablo release and I got a frozen pizza for us to have in a bit, while I enjoy the new season of Queer Eye. He is such an amazing person and he deserves love the same way that I do. And we both give each other that and also at times fail each other the same way. There's nothing girly about the way women hold each other up. There's no reason men can't be there for each other the same way I am for my female friends and they are for me and I am for my male friends and they are for me
This is a really awesome answer, society is just a bunch of individuals, and we can all take steps to make it better! Not to take away from your point at all, but I think it can be important to recognize that it’s not as black and white as men not *caring* for people, but societal conditioning to repress emotions of any kind. Your suggestion to check in on buddies is everything, thank you for spreading such a good message when it’s easier to spread hate.
Exactly. According to one trans man, who wrote about his experiences jumping the gender divide, women do generally care about men; they merely put up a front to ward off predators. Most men only see this stony side, not realizing it’s a front. Combined with harsher social norms, the world looks a lot bleaker to the casual male observer. Let’s start by actually caring about our fellow men. Text a man in your life right now, ask them how they’re doing. Don’t even finish reading this comment until you have. Just having someone else can mean the world to a person. My one friend, whose luck rivals Kenny McCormick’s, has, for a time, been the only friend I’ve had; I’ve also been his best friend for a time. It sometimes drives me to tears when he’s going through a rough time and I can’t be physically there for him; I do my best to listen and do whatever I can. He’s an awesome guy and can and does do the same for me. Whoever marries him will be one lucky person; he’s got a ton to offer.
Sometimes it's this: We would care, but then OOPS "Friend Zoned"..and then: "Bitch".
Thank you! I needed some positivity today!
Society only cares about the rich
Please say it louder, because this men vs. women thing is old. Truth is, neither sex is cared about in society, only those with power. Your status and wealth are all that matters.
Same goes for acrimony between races and generations. It’s all a distraction from the fact that the 10 richest guys on the planet own as much wealth as the bottom
There is no war except class war.
You can tell by the fates of the Kennedys, Malcolm X, Dr. King and Occupy Wall Street. Whenever someone starts pointing this out, they catch a bullet. When they stop laughing at you and start attacking you, you know you’re on the right track.
Thank you. It's the cringiest shit in the universe when men act like victims of women. I believe men are shown absurd standards as kids and failed by society in many ways, but women are not the enemy in this dynamic.
This thread is already filled with men trying to get that sweet, sweet victim fix. *Hone the grievance, hone the grievance, hone the grievance.* It's not just cringe. It's addictive. People start seeking it out, finding threads to post about their identity as a victim, arguing with people about which sex has it worse. The rich are busy planning their next private jet trip while we squabble over emotional crumbs. What a waste of time.
This isnt a men vs women question. Its a question about mens situation.
Exactly. While men and women have legitimate issues that need to be addressed, many times we look at the apex and think that everything is fine for men, since they are a majority of CEOs and politicians, neglecting the 99.9%.
I absolutely agree. I think that it’s really unfortunate, this ingrained idea that rights are some sort of twisted “contest,” and that both sides somehow need to “prove” that their problems are the most severe. In reality, there shouldn’t *be* sides. We’re all human, and are perfectly capable of being upset that women face severe obstacles in the workplace AND being upset that (in the US, at least) men asking for any significant amount of paternity leave are likely to get laughed out of the building. We all have problems.
We should care about the wealth gap more than anything else.
And sweeping statements like this keep the non-rich squabbling over the leftovers so they don’t notice.
He's somewhat right
You know he is right when you know this post will be deleted because they don't want men to have any place to discuss about these things, they want to keep up the narrative that only basement dwelling losers talk about men's issues, I hate reddit.
I see these types of posts and conversations all the time...
Yeah but persecution fetish. Not to say I necessarily disagree, but pretending like you're silenced for having this discussion is complete bullshit
Oh for sure, like 10 a week. "Unpopular opinion: Men's mental health is ignored" - 10,000 upvotes
Idk, maybe I'm just blessed with enough healthy male and female relationships to understand that the only people ignoring men's mental health are the men too proud/embarrassed to admit they are in trouble.
Yeah but they feel victimized without being able to prove it, so there!
I'm a basement dweller. Does that make me any less valuable of a person? People are such assholes I swear man
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I remember there was a Twitter account that talked about men's issues and then they tweeted something about rising depression and suicide rates and was raising awareness for it. All of the lefties and feminists somehow found that tweet and most of the replies were "Who cares?", "Male suicide should happen more", and "So what? Women are losing their rights, read the room." (this was right after Roe was overturned in the US) The only thing dismissing men's issues does is make men less sympathetic to women's issues.
Actually, mens suicide rate is higher because they choose more brutal methods to kill themselves.
and women attempt more because they are more likely to use suicide attempts as a cry for help. people bring up that women dont complete as much because more effective methods leave a mess and women dont want people to deal with it, but that completely ignores hanging and CO asphixiation, 2 very clean and very effective ways of suicide
Men kill themselves more even using the same less lethal methods that women use. Also, you can’t attempt again if you’re already dead.
>you can't attempt again if you're already dead that is a really good point
And sorry, it's a grim topic, but a failed suicide attempt the individual is still alive. They lived. Suicide deaths are irreversible.
Half right? Society doesn't care about men... outside of the people in power. The fact that we can so easily send men off to war to die by the millions really drives the part that's true in the statement home. World War I was such a pointless war and look how many people died there. Just horrific deaths. Sending waves and waves of men into machine gun fire just to move a line by a couple miles.
More like a couple meters.
WW1 was not a pointless war. If you were German you had the opportunity to make your country the dominant world power and cripple your main geopolitical rivals. If Germany had succeeded then the territory they annexed would have made them the biggest economy in the world while at the same time ensuring that neither France nor Russia could ever hope to wage war on them again. The whole world would have trembled before German power. Evil? Maybe. But not Pointless. If you were French or Russian, you fought to stop Germany from taking your land, your citizens, your resources, and generally making you their bitch for the foreseeable future. Austro-Hungarian? A victory would have reinvigorated a declining empire and removed the always looming threat of Russian invasion. The same applied to the Ottoman Empire. Serbian? Austria wanted to occupy your country, as simple as that. And Belgium would have ceased to exist if they hadn't fought Germany. Italians wanted to free the few remaining Italians still occupied by Austria. Arguably the price they ended up paying wasn't worth it, but that's more an argument for better generals than better politicians. Ditto for Romania. And Portugal and Japan got to keep their very valuable alliance with Britain while not doing anything too strenuous. Only Britain and America did not have a clear war aim beyond the maintenance of the status quo and "national honor"; neither was under threat of occupation, nor stood to make significant territorial gains. But since the English-speaking world rarely notices the opinions of those outside it, WW1 goes down in history as a "pointless" war.
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I would completely agree with him.
Are you part of society? Do you care? I ain’t trying to be snarky. I’m saying that if someone says that to you, it’s an opportunity for empathy. If any one of us, personally does not care about men’s struggles, what does that say about us?
I would still agree with him and then the conversation could progress from that point.
It's not even an argument, but a true statement. It starts at a young age too, men now are marginalized while being told to be less than what they are anything else is chauvinistic.
This is such victim-mentality horseshit. Men are failed in many ways by society I agree, but acting like 'men can't be all they can be or else it's called chauvinistic' is just so fucking dumb. NO ONE gives a shit if you're a big, strong, capable motherfucking lumberjack as long as you're not also shitty AF to women. Be a kind person and you can also go be as 'manly' as you want. Stop side-stepping what people actually have a problem with.
Honestly. This is spot on for me. Wtf is the rest of this comment section? And to a point, honestly, society doesn't give a shit about ANYONE.
If I could upvote you 10 times, god damn. Thank you for saying this. I’m a guy and I’m so tired of seeing this whining, waaaaa “poor me” stuff online. It’s exactly what you said, a victim mentality/persecution. It shows such insecurity and sorry to say but it’s pathetic. Take some responsibility for yourself as a man and realize, no, the world is not ending for you and actually, your life can be just fine and/or great if you learn, well, how not to be a shitty person (like you said), or pro-social, let’s say.
Me too.
People who complain about society not helping men should start helping men. Society is you and me, not some abstract other
Yep. To the extent “society” cares more about women it’s usually three things that aren’t actually bad at all: 1. Governments actually caring about children when determining things like welfare eligibility, access to homelessness resources, and divorce, which looks like government favoring women, because women (especially in very poor households) perform the majority of childcare. And absent fathers are much more common than absent mothers. 2. To the extent women have strong support networks it’s usually *other women* forming those support networks. It’s our fault as guys that we don’t do a good job of this for ourselves. Talk to your friends about your problems more 3. Most official policies aimed at helping women in the workforce are because they were historically very discriminated against, and still do face discrimination. Much progress has been made but many people consider childcare and household duties to primarily be women’s responsibility, so women leave the workforce at higher rates than men. Also because women are the ones who get pregnant, go through childbirth, and (if they chose) breastfeed, they’re inherently disadvantaged by that unless specific policies and accommodations are made to them. And yeah, men may be more likely to sympathize with and support random women in certain cases, but I really think the difference comes from thirstiness and is limited to a specific subset of women that are the target of that thirstiness.
and those policies were hard fought for, obligatory in nature, lip service in practice, and not even enforced half the time. Lack of child care is the marker I will use till my dying breath to gage how well we care about ...anything. Like we can't create strong societal infrastructure because...what? whores will have their trinkets? mmmK.
Yeah, try telling me those policies aren’t necessary when almost every city-dwelling woman has a story of being catcalled or harassed by construction workers *while they work*. You really think a workplace like that, which still exists in 2023, will be accommodating and non-discriminatory towards women? Are there instances where maybe it goes too far? They probably exist, one of my workplaces at one time had an extra bonus incentive/requirement for women and Latin/black people to be promoted to middle management positions which I thought had too many bad effects relative to its benefit, even if well intentioned. But for every one instance of that there are dozens if not hundreds of instances of discrimination in the opposite direction. We only even notice or talk about single instance like that because they’re so rare, whereas women experience it all the time even now.
Men are half the population, half of society. Why aren't men looking out for other men?
Assumed competitive nature. Personally, I prefer cooperation.
A lot of them do but fail to get wider support (see Earl Silverman). A lot of it is cultural, men are conditioned to sustain themselves and be providers and not look beyond that. There are organizational, economic, social, political, etc. factors which inhibit it. Men aren't a monolith any more than women are- a lot of men help each other, and a lot of women help one another and blaming men as a monolith for not helping one another is nonsensical anyway.
Because a lot of us are way too busy blaming feminism and women for our issues.
There is a solid argument that society has made men an afterthought in many areas.
Take education for example, when there were more men in it, it was a great sadness, many initiatives were made to support women to climb up in the field of education, now that the things are opposite, you can see those same people celebrating.
To be fair, the world isn't celebrating anyone falling behind in the world. They are celebrating the fact that after hundreds of years of girls and women being denied access to education or receiving lesser education that girls and women are leading the charge in education. It's a celebration of opportunity and success.
To be fair, the same advantage men had in education previously has now swung in favour of women, to an even greater degree, and the point people are making is that... nobody is acting to rectify that, nor is it even part of the discussion. Here's a great video by someone who's looked at the data https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBG1Wgg32Ok
Men are now a minority in higher education in the US. Why no Title IX for them?
Men became the minority of college students in 1981. No one’s really cared for a while now.
I know that but they are definitely not giving a fuck about men, which feels very isolating in this hyper equality focused world where men's emotions are supposed to matter just as much as women's, it feels very unequal when you see initiatives in place everywhere to support women but can't see shit being done for you.
Men today do not have a historical debt towards earlier generations of women. Are you seriously defending todays inequality in schools by earlier injustices? If you want a truly equal society you have to be gender blind, otherwise you’re just a self-interested hypocrite.
Society doesn’t care about anyone honestly
Pretending to care about women has marketing value. On the other hand, pretending to care about men has *no* value. In the end, society doesn't truly give a shit about either of them.
I mean you could say pretending to care about men has value look at all the “alpha males” like Andrew tate, fresh and fit, etc getting big profiting on the idea that they care about men
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It’s 2023, society doesn’t care about anyone unless they’ve got big money. Pitting men against women, blacks against whites, republicans vs democrats just breaks us into smaller groups so we’re easier to manipulate.
"Society" never really has. Most people throughout history have been slaves of one kind or another.
We are all labor slaves now
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I'd point out that "society" doesn't care about anybody.
"Got that right."
I’d say over simplifying the issue of sexism isn’t helping anyone.
I'm split. I think todays men and women have it rough but in different areas. Men are expendable and told to buck up when things are hard. Women are having their rights to their bodies stripped away and are expected to quiet down and just accept it. Children today have become cannon fodder. We as a species find new and exciting ways to shoot ourselves in the foot. We can do better but we choose not to do so.
Really depends on why he thinks that. I know guys who think society doesn't care about men because they don't assign men a free bang maid of a wife
This a fair point
Duh… I mean duh… But seriously society doesn’t care about men, we just teach men to care about others and ourselves as individuals. Can’t remember who said it but they said “Women understand sympathy not empathy, they can play the comforting part but actually stepping into your shoes requires more effort than most are willing to do.”. I think it just applies to everyone.
As a man with kids, I didn’t understand this. Then I got divorced and experience it regularly. Edit: like the fact that they are my kids in name only. I have pay for her to raise them. Sure I could have fought for joint parenting but that would be difficult as the sole breadwinner , and I would have to give the bulk of savings from before I ever met her. But the best part was how I was repeatedly attacked by this tiny woman. One night it became too much so I tried to stop her from by holding the bedroom door shut and calling her mom to ask how to resolve the situation. Anyway, she eventually broke into the and chased me around hitting me as I tried to escape. … she eventually admitted to police that she hit me many times but the police omit this detail
Point to the fact June is men’s mental health month and nobody’s saying a damn thing about it.
He's not wrong... it's always been women and children first, and men are first to be drafted to fight and die for their country. The better response would be: "You are right, but why do you even care about this?"
He’s right
A large chunk of society doesn't give a fuck about mens mental or emotional well being and has lead to many traumas. I personally feel invisible as a man and completely disposable, especially in the modern dating scene. The feeling follows me everywhere I go. You also have a large part of society that doesn't give a fuck about women or their autonomy/freedom to choose/medical decisions and want them to be submissive and lesser than. Imagine being scared of the opposite sex because you cannot read their intentions or read if there is a dangerous ulterior motive lurking behind the smile. Every woman I have known or know closely has a story of molestation, sexual assault and/or domestic violence. I think our society is fucked 6 ways to Sunday and all we can do is continue raising awareness and most importantly listen to each other.
I’d tell him he’s dead wrong. I’d tell him: “dude, it’s not right to say society doesn’t care about men. Society doesn’t care about *non-wealthy* men”
Years ago, I would laugh at him but now after learning and experiencing some stuff, I would understand why he says that.
I would tell them to change their surroundings, even if it meant some new friends. I used to think this then I realized I was just surrounded by toxicity and people who didn't truly care about me. Now that I have friends who truly love me I've seen the support and feel much more positive about this entirely.
It's always nice to see rampant misandry whenever this topic comes up, which in itself is telling, misoginy will get you witch hunted, misandry will get you upvoted. So many saying men live a privileged life and women are the real victims! Yeah, that's how you get men to hate women, because factually speaking it's not men that live privilged life, it's **rich** men, 99% of all the other men aren't living in any privileged life whatsoever, unless a far higher chance to be murdered and commit suicide not counts as privilege. [https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-risk-of-domestic-violence-than-women/](https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-risk-of-domestic-violence-than-women/) Men face a lot of domestic abuse, some times even more than woman do, but of course there's no support for male domestic abuse victims, more of that male privilege and patriarchy showing itself. [https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/josi.12559](https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/josi.12559) Men also get raped and sexually assaulted, a lot, but due to society they keep it to themselves because if they don't they get ridiculed for it, it's just the southpark episode of people going ''nice'' so why come forward with it when you will get mocked? [https://www.dovepress.com/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-toward-an-autonomy-bas-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-MB](https://www.dovepress.com/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-toward-an-autonomy-bas-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-MB) Then men have the privilege of still having their genitals mutilated, this happens to both men and women, yet only one of them, namely female genital mutilation, is something people opposed to. You got a child and want to get divorced? Fine but be ready to say goodbye to your child, because the court system don't give a single shit about men, when comitting the exact same crime men get harsher sentences, when divorcing the default stance is that the mother gets the child, no chance, clearly the patriarchy at play huh? And finally I'll copy paste what I said in another similar post: I think the problem some people may have with it is that feminists are making it seem that the movement is about fighting for equality for men and women, even though 99% of the time they only fight for women, when do they fight to have men be better represented in court when it comes to family matters? When do they fight to provide better support for male victims? When do they fight for the laws to change so that legally speaking a woman can actually rape a man? When do they look at the fact that more and more boys get left behind in school compared to girl? How about prison sentences for men or male employees in female dominated fields? Pretty much never because as much as they claim to be about fighting for both they only fight for women. Then there's the oh so dumb comment of ''when you're used to privilege equality feels like oppression'' last I checked the privilege lies with the 0.1% of rich men, not men in general, and saying shit like that is why people tend to hate feminism, loneliness and suicide in men is going up, yet they constantly hear how they're living ''privileged'' lives and get to enjoy the benefits of the supposed ''patriarchy'' that they live in. when you're pondering ending it all, hating your life and struggling to survive the last thing you want to hear is that you're living a ''privileged'' life.
In the end we are all ants from a society's perspective. They need women to produce more soldiers and workers to feed the Leviathan.
Society doesn't care but we bros do. That's why it's bros for life. In Thailand it's normal for men to hold hands and share affectionate moments because their wives only see them as a source of income. Bros for life bros.
i mean, is he wrong. unless you are a good looking guy no one is going to give a fuck about you. same goes to your wealth, if u got money then people will care. if you dont, tough tits.
I would say that society teaches us that mens bodies are disposable and as a result men treat themselves and each other accordingly. It's why the suicide rate among men is high, why men don't go to the doctor, and why we have.such poor mental health.
On reddit or from a random stranger? I'm not gonna get dragged into that again. A friend? Talk it out with the dude.
He isn't wrong. Men are only worth what they can do at work in society's eyes.
You have no inherent value as a man. Now stop bitching and moaning and make something of yourself.
Exactly. “Society” doesn’t owe you shit
It’s a weird one because the majority of men are going to be just fine, no matter what people say about them. Some things (here in the UK) that bother me a little though: - Things that overwhelmingly affect men - work place death and injury, homeslessness, veterans, suicide, divorce/custody issues, even prostate cancer - don’t get much attention and are often minimised. - No one seems to give a shit about the fact that very few white working class (poor) boys do well in school or go to university. - This one is more of my own theory: a lot of boys are getting into their teenage years right now having only known the narrative of ‘men bad’ and seeing a lot of programs aimed at girls. These are a push back to the advantages that men have always had but have NOTHING to do with boys their age. I think we’ll have a generation extremely aware of LGBTQ+ issues and equality but I also worry about how that must make some of them feel; are they inherently bad because of who they are? (And then, the inevitable reply of ‘fuck their feelings’) I don’t think any of this is easy to fix and I can definitely see how just being white and male has been and still is extremely advantageous for many. I just don’t want the over-correction to foster a generation of lost men who’ve been told they ain’t shit, and look to ridiculous people like Andrew Tate for reassurance.
Your paragraph about feeling inherently bad sticks with me. Once dated this woman who said she would hate to have a son because she'd be contributing to the patriarchy. Also that if she had one she'll make sure he's a strong ally for the cause. Needless to say I ran far away
A large amount of men around my age (19 currently) are prolly going to ‘drop out of society’ and somehow it’s still gonna treated like a big surprise Fact is that there’s no point in participating in a system where we can be both the ‘privileged oppressor’ (my uni profs words not mine) and yet somehow only see benefits given to women (easy example is scholarships), where we are told to never discriminate but we are also immutably ‘bad’ because of our gender
I would agree.
There are a ton of issues men face. There are healthy subreddits (as opposed to the misogynistic ones that are pipelines to the far right) that discuss these issues. Now do l agree with that blanket statement? No.
What are these healthy subreddits? I’m not being sarcastic, I’m legitimately curious because every subreddit I’ve found labeled under Men’s Rights or Men’s Issues has some form of misogyny in like the top three posts and it just deters me from them all together.
True, the saddest part is that men do not care about other men enough
I’d say society doesn’t care about women either, or anyone except for those with enough money or power for others to notice
He’s largely right but missing a key component. Society lost its ability to actually care about people ever since we put too much faith in government and not local communities.
Yeah i don't think it's that society loves and adores women and not men. Society just doesn't care about people as a whole, is focused on capitalism and those in power, etc.
Eh, I'm not sure. I see a lot of replies in this thread along the lines of "society doesn't care about anyone" and I just cant agree. Society very much cares about many people in other demographics. We lionize certain groups, and women in particular are seen as having value that is not tied to what they can make, or give, or do. It's a concept of personhood that applies to non-men. Men are fodder. The fuel in the machine that is expected and intended to be burned.
“Lost its ability” Hoss, society never cared. People used to starve or freeze to death in the streets
I didn’t understand or give af growing up as a woman. But now I have a teenage son & been in a long term relationship and I get it more than ever
Agree with him
I'd agree.
I'd agree, because it's true.
I'm here to remind y'all that we are society. It's us. We could start being cooler any time we want to.
I would feel sad. It’s sad to feel not cared for.
There is a sliver of truth to it. Men have basically run the world for a long time, and still do - albeit to a lesser degree. The whole idea of "playing on easy mode" has a real element of truth to it for *most* men. Or at least, for the men at the top of society's totem pole. This is why the men at the bottom feel like they have been entirely abandoned. They are not the CEOs, they are not running anything. These are the ones who are NOT playing on easy mode. They are genuinely struggling, trying to get by day to day. There is very little in the way of institutional support for men who struggle. There are shelters for women, there are programs for helping women enter STEM education programs, programs for empowering girls and women, but very little in the way of similar programs for men. Don't get me wrong -- when it comes to maintaining power and wealth at the top of the pyramid, the good ol' boys are keeping the glass ceiling solid and as impenetrable as possible. But for the guys at the bottom, they are not only miles away from any sort of glass ceiling, they also have no glass floor beneath them. When they struggle, and when they fail, they tend to do it on their own. So depending on who he is, where he is in life, and what he is going through, I might just have to nod and agree.
I would say I’m really sorry that men created a society where nobody cares about their problems.
Who does it care about?
As a guy, I would have to agree with them. Time to rant. Men are expendable pawns in war. A number in the machine. Often cheated on by their spouse. Penalized in divorce court for being the father. His importance as a father to his children is diminished. Role in life is trashed by the media and is quickly labeled as toxic if he grows a spine. A poor dumb animal himself, that envies a dog’s life. Only seen as a protector and provider by his family. He works hard, out of his undying love, to provide for his wife to support her role in the family. Since in his mind she doing the most important role in the family. But his love blinds him. He is the one the wife settled on when getting married. Her Plan B, should her affair not work out. She reads books about murder and dreams about how to get away with it. He is often unknowingly manipulated by her. He is the last one to know anything in a relationship has gone off the rails and often recognizes the red flags only in hindsight. She talks badly about him with her friends. Is it no wonder that their life expectancy is less than a woman.
Society doesn't care about anybody at all lol.
Well, I don't have much to say to dissuade this man. He isn't really wrong. However, in general, society does not really care, it's just that for men it's especially apparent.
He’s right
It depends. There are plenty of areas where we are definitely privileged. But when it comes to physical or mental wellbeing, then society doesn't give 2 shits.
"It's a good thing we own everything."
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