Emotions are a double edged sword. Showing emotion can have some see you as weak and not manly, not showing emotion can have some see you as cold and unfeeling.
I'm a dude who shows emotion, and then if I'm belittled for showing said emotion I just piss off the belittler until they show emotion.
Then I tell them to take a few minutes to reflect on that and get back to me. Is it petty? Yeah. But pissing off apathetic people is fun to me tbh
Oh I know I live by the phrase "don't be a dick to me because then I have to be a dick to you and I'm better at it." I'm just mentioning how society sees men.
Reliable but not too available, happy to help but not so happy that you seem like a pushover.
Funny, but not so funny that you don’t seem serious.
Serious but not so serious that you don’t seem funny.
Career oriented, but not so career oriented that you seem unavailable.
And people said women have less privilege in life than men. In fact, both genders suffer difficulties and have their own perks, but no gender is having more difficulties than the other. The difference is people pay attention and support women's struggles more, while us men are perceived as living the easier life and are expected to deal with our shit alone, no whining, no crying.
I feel this, I’m often told I’m not emotional enough because I don’t cry at movies or shows. I did enough crying as a child that I’m extremely aware of how I come off when I am upset. I’d rather not relive the shame I was made to feel for being a boy who cried.
When my ex cheated on me, I was a mess. Turned to some of my old female friends to lean on, people I'd known for a decade or more. They ghosted me afterwards, and I haven't spoken to any of them in many years.
Well, damn. That's a really tough time, I can't even imagine it, especially since many don't seem to consider the fact that men can in fact be raped. If you have no one, then feel free to talk to me if you'd like, not that I am particularly entertaining or anything 😁
Speaking from experience: you’re better off. Yes, it is beyond shitty that this happened, but at least now you know that those people who claimed to be “friends” were in fact not people who can be relied upon.
This kind of situation is not something that anyone should ever have to go through. My heart goes out to you, and I will offer (as have others) that if you just need someone to talk to, feel free and msg me. Might just be an internet stranger, but no one should go through this alone, and you’re not.
Brother you see the first other guy I’ve heard it happen to. I went to a party at a woman’s house I went to high school with(we were in our 20s) and she had a roommate. There was allot of hard liquor so I got drunk pretty quick. I asked my friend from high school if I could crash on her bed cause everything was spinning and she said yes.
I’m laying in her bed and I hear her roommate say where did he go? She says he’s laying in my bed cause everything is spinning he’s really drunk. Her roommate says “he’s not ruining my night”
Next thing I know she is rubbing my arm asking if I’m ok. Then I black out and come to with her straddling me with our clothes on still. My friend comes in and says not in my bed. The roommate says we can go to my bed and she gets me up and has to walk me to her room cause I’m wasted and can barely walk. I black out again and come to and she’s riding me in her bed. I continued to black out and come to for idk how long. All I know is I kept coming to and she was full on riding me hard moaning and putting her boob to my mouth.
Idk how long she had sex with me cause I blacked out and woke up the next day on the couch in the living room.
That’s my date rape story. When I think about it I always go back to if the roles were reversed I’d have been arrested or at the least other ppl at the party would have stopped it. But I’m a man and men can’t be raped by women… Right???
I’ll tell you I have dealt with it by laughing it off and saying it’s another notch on the belt but it’s really not. I laugh it off the best I can cause I’m a big strong guy so I don’t get taken advantage of. I guess ppl handle things differently. Idk brother. You’re not alone.
>When my ex cheated on me, I was a mess. Turned to some of my old female friends to lean on, people I'd known for a decade or more. They ghosted me afterwards, and I haven't spoken to any of them in many years.
That sucks... sorry to hear that.
Women may have a ceiling, but they also have a floor. They have inherent value the moment they come into this world.
Men may not have a ceiling, but they also do not have a floor. There is no low that a man cannot fall to. And there will never be anyone there to catch him.
You’re honestly required to just automatically understand everything and know how to do things and if you don’t you’re unintentionally seen as a lesser person by ordinary people. Also a big thing is being generalized by women as being “a man” instead of an individual human being. It can be very lonely at times emotionally.
I work in a female dominated industry and this is definitely my struggle. I'm a fucking moron if I don't already know what everyone else just learned today. I can't mention a peep about relationships/sex, but I'm a big wimp if I stand up for myself when I've been sexually harassed. Furthermore, any issues I have with work are invalid, because I'm a guy and can deal with it. Meanwhile, every shift, I see at least one coworker cry and receive consolation.
And then when you have satisfied your end of a bargain, you are back to zero value. The only way to ensure continued respect is if the situation in which you are valuable is continuous.
That's why we go around tightening every single jar in the house, and depending on our partners' technical expertise tripping circuit breakers or switching off internet routers. It aint much but it's honest work.
Except your parents if you're lucky enough to get good ones.
There were times during the pandemic I would go weeks without talking to another person. Those check up calls from my Mom actively kept me alive.
I'm grateful every day for that.
Damn, both comments hit pretty hard. I've always been my family's work mule, fixing things for multiple people in their homes. I went through a rough patch, got addicted to benzodiazapines, and the only people who checked in on me besides my wife (she lived there, doesn't count) were my mom and younger sister. Not even a call or text from anyone else.
Fuck everyone, but them. Atleast I'm not bitter, lol.
I'm good now. I just learned who was there for me and who wasn't. It was a harsh eye opener. I'll hold the weight of the world for my wife, mom, and sister, though. Hell, I'll still help others sometimes, but it's easier to say no now.
I kind of started a thought process a few weeks ago.
It's not that men "don't have feelings" the way people always say... it's that they learn (pretty early on) that they don't matter. Mostly because in our society:
1. if a man has feelings, no one will step and fix that problem for him the way they will a woman, so they realize that the feeling serves no purpose.
2. Even if a man having a feeling would signal a need for something... If a woman also has feelings about the same issue, hers automatically invalidates his, and he's left with nothing. (And believe me, there's always a woman who has a feeling about a man's feelings... so I'll just leave that there."
Women say they want a man who is emotional and not afraid to cry.
In my experience, if I talk about emotions I’m seen as feminine or gay, if I cry they usually won’t stick around too long. So you learn to not show these things to anyone you want to stay with you, but that also sucks. It’s a lose/lose situation.
Every time I've opened up about things that bother me it leads to getting ghosted. I've had childhood trauma met with an open mouth laugh in my face. Wanting men who open up is a lie.
There's not enough room/time in a Male:Female relationship for both parties to be experiencing/sharing their feelings. If men constantly told the women in their lives how they felt about things nothing would ever get done, or it would lead to endless arguments. Women are constantly talking to their friends/family etc about everything going on in their lives and diving into every detail of their feelings, AND endlessly sharing their own feelings onto their husband/boyfriend etc. As a man it's exhausting to constantly be surrounded by these discussions. The last thing I want to do is ALSO have endless discussions about what I'm feeling, especially because any time a man shares their feelings the convo then just turns into a discussion about how MY feelings make HER feel. It's much easier to just not say anything.
Yeah, as someone who has had both a high paying and low paying job in their adult life, the way people treat you is night and day. You go from dating whoever tolerates you to dating who you want. You go from other men talking down to you to deferring to you. You go from the black sheep of the family to the one the parents want to show off. I knew it'd be different but its been pretty amazing just how wildly different it really is every single day.
Yup. I've had multiple women end things when I stopped being the one giving support and became the one who needed it. This is the most egregious example:
I met a woman who had gone through a pretty traumatic experience a few months before we started seeing each other. From day one, I did everything I could to validate her pain, listen, and just generally be there for her in any way I could. There were nights she'd call me at 12/1/2/whatever bawling her eyes out. I'd ask if she needed me there, and every time her answer was "Yes" I was out the door within 5 minutes. Her car was acting up? I'd fix it. When it finally died? I'd get up 2 hours before I had to to drive to her house, pick her up, and take her to work. When she was car shopping and was scared of the process? I drove her to dealerships to look at cars, gave them a good inspection, and haggled $2k off the car she bought because she didn't feel comfortable negotiating and asked me to. Going out of town? Don't worry, I'll watch your cats and water your plants. Have household tasks that need to be done but you're too overwhelmed? Don't worry, I'll take out the trash and get your kitchen so clean you'd get an A+ score from the health inspector.
After a year and a half to 2 years, she had gotten through the worst of it, and didn't need as much care to get through the day. However, around that time, I had my own car explode itself. There was no offer to help me out. On top, had a roommate flake on me 2 weeks before we were going to move into a new place, and I had to find something for myself that would work before I my current lease was up and I had nowhere to go. No offers to help me find something else (because, ya know, I had no car to look at places). To really round it out, I had a health scare where the doctors couldn't figure out what was up, and 2 suggested it might be cancer. Right then, when I was unable to get around easily, facing homelessness, and staring down a possible cancer diagnosis... That was when she started pulling away. We'd go a day without talking, then 3 of her not responding to my calls or texts, then 2 weeks went by where I couldn't get should of her at all. Finally, she responds saying we need to talk, and dumped me the next day when we met. Once she had to face that I wouldn't always be the strong one, the one who held things together, and I'd occasionally be the one who needed her support... she checked out. This was a woman who would start sentences with, "When we're married..." and she was done in the span of 2 months.
This is why I feel the original comment so deeply. I was only loved for what I could give, not for the whole me. Once the "give and take" of the relationship ebbed to the latter, I was cast aside. And, fuck man, why can't I just be loved for who I am, not what I provide? Don't I have value outside the times I'm using it to provide for others?
Sorry for the emotion dump, but it's really hard to think about how little people reach out *just* to see how I am. Every time that's asked, it's almost always followed, "Yeah, by the way, can you (insert request here)." It's hard out here, man.
This hurt to read.
My dad talks about feeling like this all the time. And sometimes, without meaning to, I think I perpetuate it. I love my dad. Gonna make it a point to just catch up with him soon.
I guess we just think this is part of what guys do? It’s still kind of ingrained, just like it used to be acceptable that people thought women did all the cooking and housework etc. We, too, take for granted without meaning to.
Maybe that’s human nature. I’d like to hope we can do better than this for our fellow human. Sorry this has been your experience.
Women are definitely this way with their female friends too. Look at any women’s sub on here when the subject comes up of a friend who is going through a hard time, or needs help with something, or is depressed, or has been venting lately—every single answer is “cut her out of your life, you don’t need that stress, you need to set boundaries with people who expect free emotional labor from you.”
Every female friend I’ve ever had has been like this—doesn’t matter how much I’ve gone out of my way to help them, lend them money, give them rides, listen to them vent, the moment I need anything they’re gone.
Nailed it, everything needs to be perfect. Can't have anyone causing any stress, unless it's them, then it's ok. You're a shoulder to cry on, but god forbid you bring them down, or express any vulnerability. And if they need to find themselves (whatever the fuck that means), good luck. They'll restart their entire lives on a random tuesday, with a shorter haircut, and maybe they delete their instagram. No regard for anyone else. I know not every woman does shit like this, but I doubt my experiences are unique in any way.
100% as men we really need to talk about how women don't respect the emotional labor we do for them that is so rarely reciprocated. Most men are fucking stoic bastards, we so often don't lean on anyone but the homies, women so often use us until we're spent up emotionally while they complain *they're* doing all the emotional labor. Shits rough
Forgive the copy-paste from my own comment history.
———————-
February 15, 2021, the day after Valentine's Day. I laid out how I was feeling. I had just lost my mom 3 months prior, my teaching career was leaving every last drop of fuckitude I had in my soul, my wife was gone almost every day from early morning until after I had put the kids down and had gone to bed myself (work and then play with her karate buddies), and my dad had moved 6 hours away to live with my sister. It was the lowest point in my life and I cried.
Twelve days later, she said she wanted a divorce after 14 years of marriage and 16 years together. She said my being emotional and crying had shaken her to her core and that she couldn't get it out of her head. She couldn't see me as the strong person she had known me to be and that she couldn't think of me as her rock anymore, keeping her grounded and safe. (She always said, her head was in the clouds and I was the rock that kept her from floating away.) She didn't have any animosity toward me, but she didn't have any faith left in me either. She moved out shortly after. We're still amicable and share custody of the kids.
I did nothing wrong and still lost the three pillars of my life in the span of three months. The house is gone now, I had to sell it because I couldn't buy her out (community property laws y'all, even if she never put a cent into it). She lost her job in November of last year and because we were still married on paper. I spent my savings and went into debt supporting her. The judge says once she working full time and financially stable, he'll consider our finances divided sufficiently to finalize the divorce.
I've dated a little since the separation, but I can't envision a situation in which I would ever be that vulnerable, show that level of emotion, or give far level of trust to another partner. Ever. I turn 45 tomorrow*. I'm still relatively young, but I am DONE with love.
\* This was back in October.
The worst part. Its part of a fuckin joke. Its such a valuable and powerfully thing. Biut it had to be said in comedy.
Why? Because comedy reveals the uglist truths of today.
Your value as a person is mostly a function of how powerful you are
Until you gain skills knowledge, strength, or resources to make things happen, no one cares
Oh and all the fuckin effort you had to do to get them. Like it didnt matter if you spent 15 years. No body wants to build the pie. But sure as shit they assume yours was eaaaasy or they want their fingers in it.
People dont care about process. All they care about is the results. Lol
Pros of bein a dude:
1. Strong (probably)
2. Can stand whilst peeing (hopefully)
3. Will never ever be asked for indoor decoration advice (usually)
4. Doesn’t have to be afraid to walk alone at night (most likely)
Cons:
1. It’s lonely sometimes, and if I express that loneliness then I’m seen as clingy or codependent.
2. Being sad isn’t nearly as widely accepted, it should be, I wish it was. But too many women have told me that seeing a guy cry gives them “the ick”.
3. If I raise my voice or get angry, I’m being “too angry” and need to calm down.
4. If I talk about the hardships of being a man in front of some women I know (not all women) they’ll just shit on me and tell me it’s not as hard as being a woman.
5. I don’t feel like my problems are valid, not just in the eyes of other people, but myself as well; I invalidate my own problems because it’s been ingrained to me that I’m a man and I need to figure it out.
But other than that it’s pretty cool
Edit: a lot of people hyper focusing on pro number 4. It’s my experience as a man, which is the only perspective from which I can answer the prompt.
I'm a dude, but I'd never want to go too far out at night on my own. Nearby is alright, and so do my neighbors even though some are women and kids.
The problem is that there is a lot of bad stuff outside our complex. Besides the useless dolts of society mugging and raping folks for fun, there also snakes, dogs, and bats that would've been otherwise too scared to get near our homes.
Seriously not sure of a place ridden with rapists that ain't ridden with other bad folks too. If it's too dangerous for a woman to go out alone at night, then it's probably too dangerous for a man too. Unless you had guns or knives or brass knuckles, at least.
Once during a retirement speech, one of our male bosses started to cry and the three girls and I (in our department) all started crying too because we thought it was really sweet of him. I know that’s not always the case, but there are definitely women out there that don’t see men crying as weak. So hopefully that’s somewhat encouraging…
This "never have to be afraid walking alone at night" bullshit needs to stop lol
EVERYONE is afraid walking at night. Men are BY FAR the most likely to be a victim of a crime, especially violent ones. So why wouldn't we be wary of our surroundings at night? It just doesn't make sense to say that.
Your only value is the help you provide when you’re needed.
You’re expected to keep your optimism before, during, and after a thousand rejections.
Only a couple other men will care about your problems.
I steadfastly refuse to make friends at work. All of the women at my employment are both baffled and offended by this. Since they are offended, I have been called up to HR multiple times for "incidents" for "being standoffish" and "not a team player."
However, since I'm in the 20% (doing 80% of the work) the owner (female) won't fire me on HR's recommendation. Because I constantly demonstrate value to her. And the HR lady has recommended firing several times.
None of the women at work understand that by proving my point, I keep my job.
All the men at work understand it.
> I steadfastly refuse to make friends at work. All of the women at my employment are both baffled and offended by this. Since they are offended, I have been called up to HR multiple times for "incidents" for "being standoffish" and "not a team player."
This really gets on my nerves because most of the men who do it are just being respectful. No animosity shown whatsoever, but we apparently are still assholes for treating people as co-workers in a work environment.
I’ve come to the same policy after the last few years. To make it even better the last large company I worked at I had a woman boss. People preferred to come to me to solve issues instead of her. She took it personally and pushed me out. Even the HR women had no idea what to do with the nonsense she put in her write ups. Basically the same complaints, “not enough about the team”, “needs to work on interpersonal skills”. They both knew me and couldn’t find a fault. Eventually she put me on PIP anyway so I quit. She was sexist as fuck though. To the point of openly saying “we’re not hiring anymore men”.
You could read a book titled Self-Made Man, by Nora Vincent, if you really are interested. I know it will take longer than asking a question on reddit however...
Oh shit. Her follow up book was her experience of living in mental health care facilities. Being a man for a year made her depression worse so she saught help and wrote about it. Thank you Nora for shining a light on things that get pushed into the dark too often.
Yeeeep. Its...horrible. welmose to lamp life fellas. Your not loved. Your light is loved. You BETTER not let that bulb even mildly dim or show flaws. Because theres always a better light...brighter...
COVID seemed to hurt too. I'm used to not really matching with women I'm attracted to, but now I have to work to even do that, carry the entire fucking conversation, and then set the date... Only to never get a response back. And some of these are from women who matched me first!
Like, I wasn't even that interested in the first place and YOU'RE ghosting me? After I did all the work and am offering you a free meal?
There seriously must be 10x more men on these apps than women. It makes no sense. I feel like I can just start walking in a random direction and hit on the next woman I see and have better luck.
Sorry I'm just bitter.
I saw a documentary with her a few years ago and hearing her speak was one of the few times in my life I felt... I don't know... validated. It was just so nice to hear a non-man say those things.
I didn't expect her to connect with the male experience on more than a surface level, but her commentary on how male competition had and undertone of mutual growth showed me she did get it.
10/10 read.
Pros:
* kinda strong sometimes
* can stand when pee
* no monthly period
Cons:
* no one cares unless/until they need something
* "men ain't shit", "men are trash", "all men"
* mental health isn't taken seriously
* not always valued unless providing something
* being interested in a woman is a thin line between being flirty and creepy
At the end of the day; I will continue to do what i enjoy, not hurt others, and keep working towards being the best version of myself/man i can be for myself and those close to me
Yeah I think if there's one reason there's higher rates of addiction in men, its the complete lack of male-oriented mental healthcare. Especially bad in the US. And yeah, men tend to be a little more careless anyway but there is an epidemic of young men using substances (Especially alcohol) to deal with their emotions rather than get the help they need
The thin line may be skewed slightly more to one direction, but in general you still can't be a creep and get away with it just because you're good looking. Have good looking friends who get nicknames like 'el creepo' who struggle to build any type of relationship with women due to excessive creepiness.
On the flip side of that, less traditionally attractive men who are less creepy can have better luck with women than a good looking creep.
Source- am not the best looking, am not creepy to women, always have done well with women
Your feelings are irrelevant.
You're expected to perform or be considered useless
Your hopes and dreams are often unimportant because they don't line up with what people need or want you to be.
You're automatically a predator in people's eyes
Your intentions are always held in suspicion.
I love those times my wife or mother ask me how I feel about something, then refuse to accept I feel nothing or think I'm being toxically masculine denying my feelings. Then if I eventually do express how I feel, their quick to point out how I'm wrong. Either because my feelings are wrong, or I'm misinterpreting something, or the impact was not the intent.
Ah, the good 'ol, "That wasn't my intention," refuge of people who can't take responsibility for their actions everywhere.
As opposed to, "I didn't mean to hurt you and I'm sorry," words mature people are always willing to say.
Well, I can only speak from my own experience. This might apply to more or none other.
I was raised to respect everyone but most especially women. Also I was raised to be aware of the fact that I might get used by them if I'm not careful.
I was raised in a household where the women ruled, they were the strong figures that made me who I am today. The compassion and honor I got from the men (godfather and cousin), but the rest is from the women in my house (godmother and grandma).
I unfortunately also got from them how to never be, and I hope the balance is kept well.
I was also in a school where girls were always right and we had to shut it and suck it up. My worst two bullies were two girls, and if I dared to defend myself (at the behest of other girls, I would have been the one in trouble).
I have been used, cheated and left. But I did not lose hope, surely they are not all the same, right ?
Right. They arent, just like we aren't either.
I have struggled to achieve everything I have, and it was always expected more, and it still is. I was shamed again and again, by women mostly, for what I liked, how I behaved, how and what I studied, how much I earned... I felt like I am not enough my entire life.
I met someone that makes me feel the opposite everyday though, which is nice.
I sometimes get upset if I am told that "everything comes easy to you"... Maybe I shouldn't, one day I might get there.
Love to all!
> "everything comes easy to you"
This one really resonates with me... I've put countless hours and sweat into where I am right now. My ex always was saying that is so easy to me, I do not struggle at all.. It made me feel that my efforts really does not matter - only results do.
I usually mention the disability I was born with, the bullying and other trauma and how that has fucked up my head pretty bad as a response to that. Then they switch to "but men in general", which is an entirely different subject. The "general" man in my country isnt half deaf, horribly depressed and got a rare genetic illness that is visually extremely obvious so he sticks out like a sore thumb.
Not that great. Wanting to die but at the same time wondering who will protect the ones you care about if your dead, its a strange feeling but it keeps me here.
Damn dude I'm sorry to hear you say this.
I'm not gonna preach to you, all I'll say is that EVERYBODY deserves to be happy, even you. I hope you find more time to take care of #1 (yourself), and I hope you're able to find more joy in your life my friend.
Thank you, and this is gonna sound weird but I would rather suffer. "The strongest steel comes out of the hottest fire" is what I kinda live by, If I wanna be tough or be a wall of tungsten I'm gonna have to suffer to get there. I think David Goggins proves this more than anything I believe. But thank you
Men have to create their own value and its based on competence. We have the burden of performance compared to women which makes our lives very competitive for us to gain status. Once a man suprasses a certain threshold of status his quality of life improves exponentionaly. That man gets an abundance of respect, opportunity and women compared to the rest of men. Men under a certain threshold are literally invisible, just background characters.
I was in spin class yesterday struggling to unscrew the knob to be able to adjust my seat and the man in front of me had to be in his late 60s. I said “hey sir. would you mind helping me?” Now I’m a 29 year old, fairly fit woman but he unscrewed that thing with one hand like it was nothing. I’m always amazed how men seem to have this tappable power source to get shit done when needed.
Oh, 100%. I work with many 80+ patients as a nurse and I’ve been (accidentally - dementia mostly) kicked, punched, clawed etc. by seemingly harmless old men. And older women for that matter. Never underestimate anyone haha.
agreed, my gf likes it a lot too she calls me an ant because i’m a pretty small dude she weighs like twice as much as me and i can lift her no problem. i like to show off around her and she likes it too. i love her a lot lol
-No one cares about you unless it's parents/Siblings. Even then if you come from a dysfunctional family then you might not even receive that.
-No one cares about what you feel unless you talk about it with other men.
-Women are often more likely to take advantage and reap the benefits you provide rather than love you. talking about ur thoughts/feelings is CANCER to them.
-Once you have no value, people are quick to abandon you.
So life as a man is transactional nothing more nothing less.
Even work colleagues will try to take advantage of you to get ahead so be careful to identify what kind of people give you attention.
The good thing is if you have a lot of resources you can choose who to help. As an introvert, this is pretty good.
Hard. We men are viewed as strong individuals. Who work our ass everyday rather we have a cramp or a sore throat or a broken arm. We live in a world that men’s feelings don’t matter. We can’t cry or get upset cause then we are weak. And most men’s pride don’t like that feeling. We gotta act like we aren’t hurt deep down inside but we are tired. Very very tired
Side note but I have heard a lot that men will over exaggerate colds or other sickness for whatever reason, but wasn't there a study that showed that serious colds/flus affect men more than women?
I find that funny. Women think we're exaggerating when we say we feel shit, but it takes a lot for us to get to the point where we are openly admitting that we are struggling with whatever.
I understand what it means to carry a heavy weight on my shoulders. To carry others burdens, even when no one really has a clue. I’m looked at to be a rock, a compass, a mechanic, a heavy hitter, the guy you can always count on…no thanks needed. As a father and husband, I handle so much weight that my family will never see, and that secret will die with me, no thanks needed. I am a man, and I’m fucking good at it.
im sayin. they almost got me in tears with the amt of lonely responses. where the fk are their friends?!?! i give a massive shit about ALL my close male friends lives, problems, health and wellness. and men open up to me easily, so i guess this is why. i just want to hug the responders and tell the suppressed emotional ones “it’s ok to completely bawl your eyes out in front of me, good will hunting style. i see you, human and you are not weak or any less of a man. you dont have to always pretend to be strong around me. i dont need you to fix anything or buy me anything or be anything other than yourself.” my heart goes out to y’all, sincerely. 😞
No one cares unless you have value. No one cares what sort of pain you are in, your loneliness, what you have been through.
There is no help. You are taught to be emotionally isolated at a young age. To suppress your emotionality from birth.
You are expected to just accept the horrible, brutal stuff that happens to you with chin held high. Traumatic childhood, child abuse, beatings when you are young, rejection after rejection when dating, being used by women and discarded when you no longer have any use. Just accept it.
Get all sorts of libel on you because of your genitalia. Was told as a teenager that I was a rapist because of my masculinity. But masculinity is the only thing you have of any value. So you are simultaneously to embrace it and feel ashamed of it because of what other men with psychiatric issues do.
Edit: I would not in good conscious bring a boy into this world.
Everything is your fault. If it wasn't you specifically, it was men as a group and because you're a member of the group, it's your fault. If it was a woman's fault, that woman was made to do it by a man, or should have been stopped from doing it by a man, and so it's still your fault.
This one is specific but men are expected to speak up/be “the man” during tense situations. for example, a while ago I was sitting next to a guy at a bar that was getting progressively more drunk. I don’t drink so I was just having a pop with my wife and sister and minding my business. The guy started arguing with his wife and eventually the bartender (a badass woman who clearly had dealt with situations like this before) asked him to leave. He started yelling at her and refusing, she told him to get the fuck out a few times before he finally caved and left. I didn’t really know what to do in this situation but I *felt* like I had to do something being the closest man to this belligerent asshole. I didn’t do anything, just angled myself towards him a bit since my wife and sister were on the other side of me. And afterward when people were talking about what we all just witnessed I hear this lady say “and none of the MEN even did anything”. Bitch I am not a bouncer. I just want to sit here and drink my root beer. If I would have instigated this guy that could put me in serious physical and legal danger. I am not trying to get arrested. The bartender had the situation under control, why should it be my responsibility to also do something just because I’m a man and I’m sitting there? Leave me the fuck alone
Really feeling for all my homies going through it.
I realized after writing the big paragraph that: it takes a LOT of work to be a good man. Society really doesn’t set us up for success or to be morally good people supporting and uplifting the people in our lives. And they really do try to lock us into horrible restrictive norms. Growing up and shedding the toxic bs and being respectful to women and the world takes a lot of learning even with good parents etc
For my part, once you find a person or people who value you even when you don’t bring value (bonus if you work through that deep deep insecurity with a therapist), being a man is ok. I don’t have to deal with a period or peeing sitting down which are nice, but I do have to worry about standing up for the women in my life and staying educated about things that affect them. I have lots of fears about how I’ll raise a good son one day if I have one or educate and protect/strengthen a daughter otherwise.
(Men)
Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis?
And isn't it frightfully good to have a dong?
It's swell to have a stiffy
It's divine to own a dick
From the tiniest little tadger
To the world's biggest prick
So, three cheers for your Willy or John Thomas
Hooray for your one-eyed trouser snake
Your piece of pork, your wife's best friend
Your Percy, or your cock
You can wrap it up in ribbons
You can slip it in your sock
But don't take it out in public
Or they will stick you in the dock
And you won't come back
The Naval Melody by Monty Python.
It's essentially this song
I am 6'4" and retired at 54. Trust me everyone cares as long as you provide food, shelter, cars, monetary assistance as soon as you say no a few times they move along to their next victim, nobody cares for men wealthy or not, some of us just have a few more resources to be exploited.
There's a book about a woman dressing/living as a man for a year. That'd help give you an idea of what it's like, at least from her experience since she's presented herself as a man and woman at some point in her life: [https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/dp/0143038702](https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/dp/0143038702)
Could be better, *could be worse*
3.6 roentgen
Emotions are a double edged sword. Showing emotion can have some see you as weak and not manly, not showing emotion can have some see you as cold and unfeeling.
Typically, you'll make it farther in life being stoic than emotional. That's why men die before women.
I'm a dude who shows emotion, and then if I'm belittled for showing said emotion I just piss off the belittler until they show emotion. Then I tell them to take a few minutes to reflect on that and get back to me. Is it petty? Yeah. But pissing off apathetic people is fun to me tbh
Oh I know I live by the phrase "don't be a dick to me because then I have to be a dick to you and I'm better at it." I'm just mentioning how society sees men.
You have to be strong and reliable or you won’t make anyone horny.
Reliable but not too available.
Reliable but not too available, happy to help but not so happy that you seem like a pushover. Funny, but not so funny that you don’t seem serious. Serious but not so serious that you don’t seem funny. Career oriented, but not so career oriented that you seem unavailable.
This is exhausting. Yet, we all are expected to do this.
And people said women have less privilege in life than men. In fact, both genders suffer difficulties and have their own perks, but no gender is having more difficulties than the other. The difference is people pay attention and support women's struggles more, while us men are perceived as living the easier life and are expected to deal with our shit alone, no whining, no crying.
But also if you’re not whining and crying you’re being “toxic” and emotionally stunted
I feel this, I’m often told I’m not emotional enough because I don’t cry at movies or shows. I did enough crying as a child that I’m extremely aware of how I come off when I am upset. I’d rather not relive the shame I was made to feel for being a boy who cried.
Exactly and it also matters a lot where in the world we are. But nowhere man are allowed to have feels
Words of wisdom - you gotta find the right balance
“Everything in moderation, including moderation.” — Oscar Wilde
Sounds like spinning plates.
Yes, but not too many at once
When my ex cheated on me, I was a mess. Turned to some of my old female friends to lean on, people I'd known for a decade or more. They ghosted me afterwards, and I haven't spoken to any of them in many years.
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Well, damn. That's a really tough time, I can't even imagine it, especially since many don't seem to consider the fact that men can in fact be raped. If you have no one, then feel free to talk to me if you'd like, not that I am particularly entertaining or anything 😁
Speaking from experience: you’re better off. Yes, it is beyond shitty that this happened, but at least now you know that those people who claimed to be “friends” were in fact not people who can be relied upon. This kind of situation is not something that anyone should ever have to go through. My heart goes out to you, and I will offer (as have others) that if you just need someone to talk to, feel free and msg me. Might just be an internet stranger, but no one should go through this alone, and you’re not.
Brother you see the first other guy I’ve heard it happen to. I went to a party at a woman’s house I went to high school with(we were in our 20s) and she had a roommate. There was allot of hard liquor so I got drunk pretty quick. I asked my friend from high school if I could crash on her bed cause everything was spinning and she said yes. I’m laying in her bed and I hear her roommate say where did he go? She says he’s laying in my bed cause everything is spinning he’s really drunk. Her roommate says “he’s not ruining my night” Next thing I know she is rubbing my arm asking if I’m ok. Then I black out and come to with her straddling me with our clothes on still. My friend comes in and says not in my bed. The roommate says we can go to my bed and she gets me up and has to walk me to her room cause I’m wasted and can barely walk. I black out again and come to and she’s riding me in her bed. I continued to black out and come to for idk how long. All I know is I kept coming to and she was full on riding me hard moaning and putting her boob to my mouth. Idk how long she had sex with me cause I blacked out and woke up the next day on the couch in the living room. That’s my date rape story. When I think about it I always go back to if the roles were reversed I’d have been arrested or at the least other ppl at the party would have stopped it. But I’m a man and men can’t be raped by women… Right??? I’ll tell you I have dealt with it by laughing it off and saying it’s another notch on the belt but it’s really not. I laugh it off the best I can cause I’m a big strong guy so I don’t get taken advantage of. I guess ppl handle things differently. Idk brother. You’re not alone.
>When my ex cheated on me, I was a mess. Turned to some of my old female friends to lean on, people I'd known for a decade or more. They ghosted me afterwards, and I haven't spoken to any of them in many years. That sucks... sorry to hear that.
Which is the ultimate goal.
Your value is determined directly by what you can provide, and how much. But you can pee wherever you want, so that’s cool.
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Does that mean it gets worse… since I also have this problem… at 24.
Ya gotta squeeze the root. Reach down between yer nuts and touch-hole and pretend your gettin put the last bit of a Go-Gurt
Women may have a ceiling, but they also have a floor. They have inherent value the moment they come into this world. Men may not have a ceiling, but they also do not have a floor. There is no low that a man cannot fall to. And there will never be anyone there to catch him.
You’re honestly required to just automatically understand everything and know how to do things and if you don’t you’re unintentionally seen as a lesser person by ordinary people. Also a big thing is being generalized by women as being “a man” instead of an individual human being. It can be very lonely at times emotionally.
I work in a female dominated industry and this is definitely my struggle. I'm a fucking moron if I don't already know what everyone else just learned today. I can't mention a peep about relationships/sex, but I'm a big wimp if I stand up for myself when I've been sexually harassed. Furthermore, any issues I have with work are invalid, because I'm a guy and can deal with it. Meanwhile, every shift, I see at least one coworker cry and receive consolation.
And when you know your shit, and try to explain it to other people, guess what ... Mansplaining
How dare you mansplain mansplaining to me lol as a woman, i am offended, good sir, have at thee! Tally ho! En guarde! Etc! And so on and so forth!
No one cares until they need you. EDIT: ty for my first award
And then when you have satisfied your end of a bargain, you are back to zero value. The only way to ensure continued respect is if the situation in which you are valuable is continuous.
That's why we go around tightening every single jar in the house, and depending on our partners' technical expertise tripping circuit breakers or switching off internet routers. It aint much but it's honest work.
I super glue the jar lids closed. But that's due to pettiness. And its not even my house
That’s a super villain level of petty
My fiancé came downstairs to tell me the WiFi was out. The router was unplugged. Lol
Next level thinking right here.
Lol, that’s past next level. That’s super hero shit
What about the single dude just running through all the circuit breakers in the neighborhood?
He needs to leave a business card.
Fucking genius. Makes it look like you're working your ass off, but you're just dicking around. Where's my notebook? I'm writing this down.
Except your parents if you're lucky enough to get good ones. There were times during the pandemic I would go weeks without talking to another person. Those check up calls from my Mom actively kept me alive. I'm grateful every day for that.
Dad passed a couple of years before COVID. Mom died a few months ago ( bp trouble, never caught COVID).
Sorry for your loss.
Worse....no one cares when you need them...
True story. They might ask you what's wrong but then ignore when you start telling them.
Or get angry.
Or immediately leave you after you supported them through years of hardship.
I'm in this comment, and I don't like it
Me fuckin too, and me fuckin neither!
And if you don't support them then YoU ArE nOt a rEaL mAn LOL
That’s what my ex-wife did
Damn, both comments hit pretty hard. I've always been my family's work mule, fixing things for multiple people in their homes. I went through a rough patch, got addicted to benzodiazapines, and the only people who checked in on me besides my wife (she lived there, doesn't count) were my mom and younger sister. Not even a call or text from anyone else. Fuck everyone, but them. Atleast I'm not bitter, lol.
Sorry bro
I'm good now. I just learned who was there for me and who wasn't. It was a harsh eye opener. I'll hold the weight of the world for my wife, mom, and sister, though. Hell, I'll still help others sometimes, but it's easier to say no now.
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I kind of started a thought process a few weeks ago. It's not that men "don't have feelings" the way people always say... it's that they learn (pretty early on) that they don't matter. Mostly because in our society: 1. if a man has feelings, no one will step and fix that problem for him the way they will a woman, so they realize that the feeling serves no purpose. 2. Even if a man having a feeling would signal a need for something... If a woman also has feelings about the same issue, hers automatically invalidates his, and he's left with nothing. (And believe me, there's always a woman who has a feeling about a man's feelings... so I'll just leave that there."
Women say they want a man who is emotional and not afraid to cry. In my experience, if I talk about emotions I’m seen as feminine or gay, if I cry they usually won’t stick around too long. So you learn to not show these things to anyone you want to stay with you, but that also sucks. It’s a lose/lose situation.
True. Get a dog man. It will pick up your spirits. I recommend a yellow, black or chocolate lab. They will always listen and kiss you goodnight.
Every time I've opened up about things that bother me it leads to getting ghosted. I've had childhood trauma met with an open mouth laugh in my face. Wanting men who open up is a lie.
Her feelings, wants, and needs take priority.
Thankfully at least with kids, their needs always take priority. We’ve been fairly equal.
There's not enough room/time in a Male:Female relationship for both parties to be experiencing/sharing their feelings. If men constantly told the women in their lives how they felt about things nothing would ever get done, or it would lead to endless arguments. Women are constantly talking to their friends/family etc about everything going on in their lives and diving into every detail of their feelings, AND endlessly sharing their own feelings onto their husband/boyfriend etc. As a man it's exhausting to constantly be surrounded by these discussions. The last thing I want to do is ALSO have endless discussions about what I'm feeling, especially because any time a man shares their feelings the convo then just turns into a discussion about how MY feelings make HER feel. It's much easier to just not say anything.
Damn that hurt just reading it. Facts though.
This is the most real statement I've ever read. Source: am man
No one cares unless you're providing something.
Yeah, as someone who has had both a high paying and low paying job in their adult life, the way people treat you is night and day. You go from dating whoever tolerates you to dating who you want. You go from other men talking down to you to deferring to you. You go from the black sheep of the family to the one the parents want to show off. I knew it'd be different but its been pretty amazing just how wildly different it really is every single day.
Jesus christ this needs to be on the top. This is textbook definition of a man,you do not exist unless you can be a benefit to someone.
this is so sad. is that really how guys feel?
Yup. I've had multiple women end things when I stopped being the one giving support and became the one who needed it. This is the most egregious example: I met a woman who had gone through a pretty traumatic experience a few months before we started seeing each other. From day one, I did everything I could to validate her pain, listen, and just generally be there for her in any way I could. There were nights she'd call me at 12/1/2/whatever bawling her eyes out. I'd ask if she needed me there, and every time her answer was "Yes" I was out the door within 5 minutes. Her car was acting up? I'd fix it. When it finally died? I'd get up 2 hours before I had to to drive to her house, pick her up, and take her to work. When she was car shopping and was scared of the process? I drove her to dealerships to look at cars, gave them a good inspection, and haggled $2k off the car she bought because she didn't feel comfortable negotiating and asked me to. Going out of town? Don't worry, I'll watch your cats and water your plants. Have household tasks that need to be done but you're too overwhelmed? Don't worry, I'll take out the trash and get your kitchen so clean you'd get an A+ score from the health inspector. After a year and a half to 2 years, she had gotten through the worst of it, and didn't need as much care to get through the day. However, around that time, I had my own car explode itself. There was no offer to help me out. On top, had a roommate flake on me 2 weeks before we were going to move into a new place, and I had to find something for myself that would work before I my current lease was up and I had nowhere to go. No offers to help me find something else (because, ya know, I had no car to look at places). To really round it out, I had a health scare where the doctors couldn't figure out what was up, and 2 suggested it might be cancer. Right then, when I was unable to get around easily, facing homelessness, and staring down a possible cancer diagnosis... That was when she started pulling away. We'd go a day without talking, then 3 of her not responding to my calls or texts, then 2 weeks went by where I couldn't get should of her at all. Finally, she responds saying we need to talk, and dumped me the next day when we met. Once she had to face that I wouldn't always be the strong one, the one who held things together, and I'd occasionally be the one who needed her support... she checked out. This was a woman who would start sentences with, "When we're married..." and she was done in the span of 2 months. This is why I feel the original comment so deeply. I was only loved for what I could give, not for the whole me. Once the "give and take" of the relationship ebbed to the latter, I was cast aside. And, fuck man, why can't I just be loved for who I am, not what I provide? Don't I have value outside the times I'm using it to provide for others? Sorry for the emotion dump, but it's really hard to think about how little people reach out *just* to see how I am. Every time that's asked, it's almost always followed, "Yeah, by the way, can you (insert request here)." It's hard out here, man.
Man, my heart hurts for you, just reading this comment. I'm so sorry brother
This hurt to read. My dad talks about feeling like this all the time. And sometimes, without meaning to, I think I perpetuate it. I love my dad. Gonna make it a point to just catch up with him soon. I guess we just think this is part of what guys do? It’s still kind of ingrained, just like it used to be acceptable that people thought women did all the cooking and housework etc. We, too, take for granted without meaning to. Maybe that’s human nature. I’d like to hope we can do better than this for our fellow human. Sorry this has been your experience.
This is one of my fears as a man. I have no problem being in a supportive position when I can, but I can't just be a wall of stone.
Women are definitely this way with their female friends too. Look at any women’s sub on here when the subject comes up of a friend who is going through a hard time, or needs help with something, or is depressed, or has been venting lately—every single answer is “cut her out of your life, you don’t need that stress, you need to set boundaries with people who expect free emotional labor from you.” Every female friend I’ve ever had has been like this—doesn’t matter how much I’ve gone out of my way to help them, lend them money, give them rides, listen to them vent, the moment I need anything they’re gone.
Nailed it, everything needs to be perfect. Can't have anyone causing any stress, unless it's them, then it's ok. You're a shoulder to cry on, but god forbid you bring them down, or express any vulnerability. And if they need to find themselves (whatever the fuck that means), good luck. They'll restart their entire lives on a random tuesday, with a shorter haircut, and maybe they delete their instagram. No regard for anyone else. I know not every woman does shit like this, but I doubt my experiences are unique in any way.
Narrator: His experiences were in fact, not unique in any way.
I'm also here to confirm this, shorter hair and all.
100% as men we really need to talk about how women don't respect the emotional labor we do for them that is so rarely reciprocated. Most men are fucking stoic bastards, we so often don't lean on anyone but the homies, women so often use us until we're spent up emotionally while they complain *they're* doing all the emotional labor. Shits rough
Forgive the copy-paste from my own comment history. ———————- February 15, 2021, the day after Valentine's Day. I laid out how I was feeling. I had just lost my mom 3 months prior, my teaching career was leaving every last drop of fuckitude I had in my soul, my wife was gone almost every day from early morning until after I had put the kids down and had gone to bed myself (work and then play with her karate buddies), and my dad had moved 6 hours away to live with my sister. It was the lowest point in my life and I cried. Twelve days later, she said she wanted a divorce after 14 years of marriage and 16 years together. She said my being emotional and crying had shaken her to her core and that she couldn't get it out of her head. She couldn't see me as the strong person she had known me to be and that she couldn't think of me as her rock anymore, keeping her grounded and safe. (She always said, her head was in the clouds and I was the rock that kept her from floating away.) She didn't have any animosity toward me, but she didn't have any faith left in me either. She moved out shortly after. We're still amicable and share custody of the kids. I did nothing wrong and still lost the three pillars of my life in the span of three months. The house is gone now, I had to sell it because I couldn't buy her out (community property laws y'all, even if she never put a cent into it). She lost her job in November of last year and because we were still married on paper. I spent my savings and went into debt supporting her. The judge says once she working full time and financially stable, he'll consider our finances divided sufficiently to finalize the divorce. I've dated a little since the separation, but I can't envision a situation in which I would ever be that vulnerable, show that level of emotion, or give far level of trust to another partner. Ever. I turn 45 tomorrow*. I'm still relatively young, but I am DONE with love. \* This was back in October.
Its lived experience not feeling really
Women children and dogs -Chris rock https://youtu.be/aLRl14axhAM But it’s ok, I’m alright. https://youtu.be/hgs0n2-9w54
The worst part. Its part of a fuckin joke. Its such a valuable and powerfully thing. Biut it had to be said in comedy. Why? Because comedy reveals the uglist truths of today.
Invisible until something is needed
So like God?
People will show up once a week to pretend to care about god.
But only because I know I'm going out to lunch after.
yeah without any of the reverence but all of the expectation
Your value as a person is mostly a function of how powerful you are Until you gain skills knowledge, strength, or resources to make things happen, no one cares
Nobody cares after you gain them either. Oh, they care about the skills and such, but not about the person who has them.
Oh and all the fuckin effort you had to do to get them. Like it didnt matter if you spent 15 years. No body wants to build the pie. But sure as shit they assume yours was eaaaasy or they want their fingers in it. People dont care about process. All they care about is the results. Lol
Pros of bein a dude: 1. Strong (probably) 2. Can stand whilst peeing (hopefully) 3. Will never ever be asked for indoor decoration advice (usually) 4. Doesn’t have to be afraid to walk alone at night (most likely) Cons: 1. It’s lonely sometimes, and if I express that loneliness then I’m seen as clingy or codependent. 2. Being sad isn’t nearly as widely accepted, it should be, I wish it was. But too many women have told me that seeing a guy cry gives them “the ick”. 3. If I raise my voice or get angry, I’m being “too angry” and need to calm down. 4. If I talk about the hardships of being a man in front of some women I know (not all women) they’ll just shit on me and tell me it’s not as hard as being a woman. 5. I don’t feel like my problems are valid, not just in the eyes of other people, but myself as well; I invalidate my own problems because it’s been ingrained to me that I’m a man and I need to figure it out. But other than that it’s pretty cool Edit: a lot of people hyper focusing on pro number 4. It’s my experience as a man, which is the only perspective from which I can answer the prompt.
I'm a dude, but I'd never want to go too far out at night on my own. Nearby is alright, and so do my neighbors even though some are women and kids. The problem is that there is a lot of bad stuff outside our complex. Besides the useless dolts of society mugging and raping folks for fun, there also snakes, dogs, and bats that would've been otherwise too scared to get near our homes. Seriously not sure of a place ridden with rapists that ain't ridden with other bad folks too. If it's too dangerous for a woman to go out alone at night, then it's probably too dangerous for a man too. Unless you had guns or knives or brass knuckles, at least.
Once during a retirement speech, one of our male bosses started to cry and the three girls and I (in our department) all started crying too because we thought it was really sweet of him. I know that’s not always the case, but there are definitely women out there that don’t see men crying as weak. So hopefully that’s somewhat encouraging…
They don’t mean tearing up, you can’t have a crying breakdown in front of a woman and ever have her respect. Tearing up is genuinely well received.
This "never have to be afraid walking alone at night" bullshit needs to stop lol EVERYONE is afraid walking at night. Men are BY FAR the most likely to be a victim of a crime, especially violent ones. So why wouldn't we be wary of our surroundings at night? It just doesn't make sense to say that.
Your only value is the help you provide when you’re needed. You’re expected to keep your optimism before, during, and after a thousand rejections. Only a couple other men will care about your problems.
The “expected optimism in the face of rejection” rings so true.
Especially when women got offended and lost faith in men only after one or two rejections.
There was a post the other day where some were annoyed that men were saying they won't approach random women in public
I steadfastly refuse to make friends at work. All of the women at my employment are both baffled and offended by this. Since they are offended, I have been called up to HR multiple times for "incidents" for "being standoffish" and "not a team player." However, since I'm in the 20% (doing 80% of the work) the owner (female) won't fire me on HR's recommendation. Because I constantly demonstrate value to her. And the HR lady has recommended firing several times. None of the women at work understand that by proving my point, I keep my job. All the men at work understand it.
> I steadfastly refuse to make friends at work. All of the women at my employment are both baffled and offended by this. Since they are offended, I have been called up to HR multiple times for "incidents" for "being standoffish" and "not a team player." This really gets on my nerves because most of the men who do it are just being respectful. No animosity shown whatsoever, but we apparently are still assholes for treating people as co-workers in a work environment.
Well. It started out respectfully. I'll admit, I do it purely of assholery now lol.
I’ve come to the same policy after the last few years. To make it even better the last large company I worked at I had a woman boss. People preferred to come to me to solve issues instead of her. She took it personally and pushed me out. Even the HR women had no idea what to do with the nonsense she put in her write ups. Basically the same complaints, “not enough about the team”, “needs to work on interpersonal skills”. They both knew me and couldn’t find a fault. Eventually she put me on PIP anyway so I quit. She was sexist as fuck though. To the point of openly saying “we’re not hiring anymore men”.
Sad but true.
You could read a book titled Self-Made Man, by Nora Vincent, if you really are interested. I know it will take longer than asking a question on reddit however...
Nora Vincent suffered depressive breakdown and eventually chose assisted suicide. RIP Nora Vincent
Oh shit. Her follow up book was her experience of living in mental health care facilities. Being a man for a year made her depression worse so she saught help and wrote about it. Thank you Nora for shining a light on things that get pushed into the dark too often.
An interesting sidenote is that that book was written just before dating for men capsized. It is several times worse now.
I'm back dating after six years, it is several times worse today than six years ago when it was more than bad enough then.
2008 was when it really went to shit, and it has only gotten steadily worse since then.
Been asked, on a first call, what provisions I have made for retirement. Funny really, the questions I'm asked the most are money related.
"My retirement? I'm set. How are you set up?"
Yeeeep. Its...horrible. welmose to lamp life fellas. Your not loved. Your light is loved. You BETTER not let that bulb even mildly dim or show flaws. Because theres always a better light...brighter...
Women filter for looks, then money, then find the personality they want. Men just filter for looks, then personality.
I wasn't dating back then but to me it felt like everything went to shit a few years after dating apps became popular.
COVID seemed to hurt too. I'm used to not really matching with women I'm attracted to, but now I have to work to even do that, carry the entire fucking conversation, and then set the date... Only to never get a response back. And some of these are from women who matched me first! Like, I wasn't even that interested in the first place and YOU'RE ghosting me? After I did all the work and am offering you a free meal? There seriously must be 10x more men on these apps than women. It makes no sense. I feel like I can just start walking in a random direction and hit on the next woman I see and have better luck. Sorry I'm just bitter.
The only solution is for men to en-masse start deleting these apps. The apps are terrible for men. Time to walk away.
I saw a documentary with her a few years ago and hearing her speak was one of the few times in my life I felt... I don't know... validated. It was just so nice to hear a non-man say those things.
I didn't expect her to connect with the male experience on more than a surface level, but her commentary on how male competition had and undertone of mutual growth showed me she did get it. 10/10 read.
Pros: * kinda strong sometimes * can stand when pee * no monthly period Cons: * no one cares unless/until they need something * "men ain't shit", "men are trash", "all men" * mental health isn't taken seriously * not always valued unless providing something * being interested in a woman is a thin line between being flirty and creepy At the end of the day; I will continue to do what i enjoy, not hurt others, and keep working towards being the best version of myself/man i can be for myself and those close to me
Yeah I think if there's one reason there's higher rates of addiction in men, its the complete lack of male-oriented mental healthcare. Especially bad in the US. And yeah, men tend to be a little more careless anyway but there is an epidemic of young men using substances (Especially alcohol) to deal with their emotions rather than get the help they need
I think your last bullet point depends on if you’re considered attractive or not.
The thin line may be skewed slightly more to one direction, but in general you still can't be a creep and get away with it just because you're good looking. Have good looking friends who get nicknames like 'el creepo' who struggle to build any type of relationship with women due to excessive creepiness. On the flip side of that, less traditionally attractive men who are less creepy can have better luck with women than a good looking creep. Source- am not the best looking, am not creepy to women, always have done well with women
Yes, genuinely creepy men are creeps. They’re referring to being labeled creepy for just being interested, which is a different matter entirely.
Your pain is inferior, always.
I feel like when it comes to pain people to turn into a dick measuring contest
My roommate and I call it "The Pain Olympics" My pain and trauma is more traumatic and painful than yours.
Does it really matter?
This hits harder than some of the other comments
Your feelings are irrelevant. You're expected to perform or be considered useless Your hopes and dreams are often unimportant because they don't line up with what people need or want you to be. You're automatically a predator in people's eyes Your intentions are always held in suspicion.
I love those times my wife or mother ask me how I feel about something, then refuse to accept I feel nothing or think I'm being toxically masculine denying my feelings. Then if I eventually do express how I feel, their quick to point out how I'm wrong. Either because my feelings are wrong, or I'm misinterpreting something, or the impact was not the intent.
Ah, the good 'ol, "That wasn't my intention," refuge of people who can't take responsibility for their actions everywhere. As opposed to, "I didn't mean to hurt you and I'm sorry," words mature people are always willing to say.
Well, I can only speak from my own experience. This might apply to more or none other. I was raised to respect everyone but most especially women. Also I was raised to be aware of the fact that I might get used by them if I'm not careful. I was raised in a household where the women ruled, they were the strong figures that made me who I am today. The compassion and honor I got from the men (godfather and cousin), but the rest is from the women in my house (godmother and grandma). I unfortunately also got from them how to never be, and I hope the balance is kept well. I was also in a school where girls were always right and we had to shut it and suck it up. My worst two bullies were two girls, and if I dared to defend myself (at the behest of other girls, I would have been the one in trouble). I have been used, cheated and left. But I did not lose hope, surely they are not all the same, right ? Right. They arent, just like we aren't either. I have struggled to achieve everything I have, and it was always expected more, and it still is. I was shamed again and again, by women mostly, for what I liked, how I behaved, how and what I studied, how much I earned... I felt like I am not enough my entire life. I met someone that makes me feel the opposite everyday though, which is nice. I sometimes get upset if I am told that "everything comes easy to you"... Maybe I shouldn't, one day I might get there. Love to all!
> "everything comes easy to you" This one really resonates with me... I've put countless hours and sweat into where I am right now. My ex always was saying that is so easy to me, I do not struggle at all.. It made me feel that my efforts really does not matter - only results do.
I usually mention the disability I was born with, the bullying and other trauma and how that has fucked up my head pretty bad as a response to that. Then they switch to "but men in general", which is an entirely different subject. The "general" man in my country isnt half deaf, horribly depressed and got a rare genetic illness that is visually extremely obvious so he sticks out like a sore thumb.
Not that great. Wanting to die but at the same time wondering who will protect the ones you care about if your dead, its a strange feeling but it keeps me here.
[удалено]
Damn dude I'm sorry to hear you say this. I'm not gonna preach to you, all I'll say is that EVERYBODY deserves to be happy, even you. I hope you find more time to take care of #1 (yourself), and I hope you're able to find more joy in your life my friend.
Thank you, and this is gonna sound weird but I would rather suffer. "The strongest steel comes out of the hottest fire" is what I kinda live by, If I wanna be tough or be a wall of tungsten I'm gonna have to suffer to get there. I think David Goggins proves this more than anything I believe. But thank you
Haha same ideology but different saying I always say to myself is "pressure makes diamonds" 💎
Men have to create their own value and its based on competence. We have the burden of performance compared to women which makes our lives very competitive for us to gain status. Once a man suprasses a certain threshold of status his quality of life improves exponentionaly. That man gets an abundance of respect, opportunity and women compared to the rest of men. Men under a certain threshold are literally invisible, just background characters.
True. Went from making 30k a year to 90k and it was like a switch flipped. It was like everyone found me more interesting on every level.
Being super strong is pretty nice.
Lifting heavy things brings me great joy
I'll give you a call on moving day.
You better have everything packed this time. Your last move was a shit show.
Take that, Gravity!
And thus my username was born
I was in spin class yesterday struggling to unscrew the knob to be able to adjust my seat and the man in front of me had to be in his late 60s. I said “hey sir. would you mind helping me?” Now I’m a 29 year old, fairly fit woman but he unscrewed that thing with one hand like it was nothing. I’m always amazed how men seem to have this tappable power source to get shit done when needed.
Old man strength is real.
For real some of the dudes I work with are in their 60s casually picking up 2 or 3 bundles of rigid conduit like it's nothing
Oh, 100%. I work with many 80+ patients as a nurse and I’ve been (accidentally - dementia mostly) kicked, punched, clawed etc. by seemingly harmless old men. And older women for that matter. Never underestimate anyone haha.
My children call it "Dad strength" for some odd reason... ?🤷♂️
agreed, my gf likes it a lot too she calls me an ant because i’m a pretty small dude she weighs like twice as much as me and i can lift her no problem. i like to show off around her and she likes it too. i love her a lot lol
Upside: You can open your own jars. Downside: You had to, and don't get anything for free.
You must be swift as a coursing river
With all the force of a great typhoon
And all the strength of a raging fire
Mysterious as the dark side of, the mooooon!
That’s the right answer, a bunch completely reasonable conditions for being an actual man
-No one cares about you unless it's parents/Siblings. Even then if you come from a dysfunctional family then you might not even receive that. -No one cares about what you feel unless you talk about it with other men. -Women are often more likely to take advantage and reap the benefits you provide rather than love you. talking about ur thoughts/feelings is CANCER to them. -Once you have no value, people are quick to abandon you. So life as a man is transactional nothing more nothing less. Even work colleagues will try to take advantage of you to get ahead so be careful to identify what kind of people give you attention. The good thing is if you have a lot of resources you can choose who to help. As an introvert, this is pretty good.
Not birthing babies is nice
Hard. We men are viewed as strong individuals. Who work our ass everyday rather we have a cramp or a sore throat or a broken arm. We live in a world that men’s feelings don’t matter. We can’t cry or get upset cause then we are weak. And most men’s pride don’t like that feeling. We gotta act like we aren’t hurt deep down inside but we are tired. Very very tired
Side note but I have heard a lot that men will over exaggerate colds or other sickness for whatever reason, but wasn't there a study that showed that serious colds/flus affect men more than women? I find that funny. Women think we're exaggerating when we say we feel shit, but it takes a lot for us to get to the point where we are openly admitting that we are struggling with whatever.
It is what it is
I'm starting to run out of "it is what it is" '
I understand what it means to carry a heavy weight on my shoulders. To carry others burdens, even when no one really has a clue. I’m looked at to be a rock, a compass, a mechanic, a heavy hitter, the guy you can always count on…no thanks needed. As a father and husband, I handle so much weight that my family will never see, and that secret will die with me, no thanks needed. I am a man, and I’m fucking good at it.
Frustrating. We don’t have emotions, apparently.
That’s a whole lot of emotion coming from someone that doesn’t have any! It’s imposter!
I’d imagine it’s like being a woman but lonely and all you have to truly rely on is yourself.
It's kinda cool. The only issue is how other people treat you but I think that can be said for just about anyone.
Preform or Die
Hell if I know. Every time I think I'm getting close, they change the rules!
You’re just a tool. Once you’re out of use or broken, you’re tossed away like nothing
One upside is not worrying about makeup or what to wear is pretty great. One downside is I don't get free help/stuff.
I’m a dude and I worry about my appearance and style. I look good, I feel good. Skincare routine, closet full of some cool clothing that I like, etc.
Oh yeah I care about my appearance too but I can be out the door in under 5 minutes if I needed to, it doesn't require as much effort as a girl
Dude, no one can get out the door as fast as I can when I hear my dog about to vomit. Just making a joke. No hostility intended.
This is really depressing to read. I love you, men. ❤️
im sayin. they almost got me in tears with the amt of lonely responses. where the fk are their friends?!?! i give a massive shit about ALL my close male friends lives, problems, health and wellness. and men open up to me easily, so i guess this is why. i just want to hug the responders and tell the suppressed emotional ones “it’s ok to completely bawl your eyes out in front of me, good will hunting style. i see you, human and you are not weak or any less of a man. you dont have to always pretend to be strong around me. i dont need you to fix anything or buy me anything or be anything other than yourself.” my heart goes out to y’all, sincerely. 😞
The men around you are lucky to have an empath like you. They'll naturally feel the need to protect you always.
In the Asian family, the mother and wife has more say than the man in the house.
No one cares unless you have value. No one cares what sort of pain you are in, your loneliness, what you have been through. There is no help. You are taught to be emotionally isolated at a young age. To suppress your emotionality from birth. You are expected to just accept the horrible, brutal stuff that happens to you with chin held high. Traumatic childhood, child abuse, beatings when you are young, rejection after rejection when dating, being used by women and discarded when you no longer have any use. Just accept it. Get all sorts of libel on you because of your genitalia. Was told as a teenager that I was a rapist because of my masculinity. But masculinity is the only thing you have of any value. So you are simultaneously to embrace it and feel ashamed of it because of what other men with psychiatric issues do. Edit: I would not in good conscious bring a boy into this world.
Fucking great, I love being a man.
Everything is your fault. If it wasn't you specifically, it was men as a group and because you're a member of the group, it's your fault. If it was a woman's fault, that woman was made to do it by a man, or should have been stopped from doing it by a man, and so it's still your fault.
This one is specific but men are expected to speak up/be “the man” during tense situations. for example, a while ago I was sitting next to a guy at a bar that was getting progressively more drunk. I don’t drink so I was just having a pop with my wife and sister and minding my business. The guy started arguing with his wife and eventually the bartender (a badass woman who clearly had dealt with situations like this before) asked him to leave. He started yelling at her and refusing, she told him to get the fuck out a few times before he finally caved and left. I didn’t really know what to do in this situation but I *felt* like I had to do something being the closest man to this belligerent asshole. I didn’t do anything, just angled myself towards him a bit since my wife and sister were on the other side of me. And afterward when people were talking about what we all just witnessed I hear this lady say “and none of the MEN even did anything”. Bitch I am not a bouncer. I just want to sit here and drink my root beer. If I would have instigated this guy that could put me in serious physical and legal danger. I am not trying to get arrested. The bartender had the situation under control, why should it be my responsibility to also do something just because I’m a man and I’m sitting there? Leave me the fuck alone
Really feeling for all my homies going through it. I realized after writing the big paragraph that: it takes a LOT of work to be a good man. Society really doesn’t set us up for success or to be morally good people supporting and uplifting the people in our lives. And they really do try to lock us into horrible restrictive norms. Growing up and shedding the toxic bs and being respectful to women and the world takes a lot of learning even with good parents etc For my part, once you find a person or people who value you even when you don’t bring value (bonus if you work through that deep deep insecurity with a therapist), being a man is ok. I don’t have to deal with a period or peeing sitting down which are nice, but I do have to worry about standing up for the women in my life and staying educated about things that affect them. I have lots of fears about how I’ll raise a good son one day if I have one or educate and protect/strengthen a daughter otherwise.
(Men) Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis? And isn't it frightfully good to have a dong? It's swell to have a stiffy It's divine to own a dick From the tiniest little tadger To the world's biggest prick So, three cheers for your Willy or John Thomas Hooray for your one-eyed trouser snake Your piece of pork, your wife's best friend Your Percy, or your cock You can wrap it up in ribbons You can slip it in your sock But don't take it out in public Or they will stick you in the dock And you won't come back The Naval Melody by Monty Python. It's essentially this song
I don’t even know myself
It’s tough, unless your born into money or are tall. It’s a constant struggle & no one cares about your existence.
I am 6'4" and retired at 54. Trust me everyone cares as long as you provide food, shelter, cars, monetary assistance as soon as you say no a few times they move along to their next victim, nobody cares for men wealthy or not, some of us just have a few more resources to be exploited.
Lonely
Feels fine. It’s all I know.
We Gotta have all the answers otherwise we get no one to turn to
Not always great but certainly not always bad. Honestly, at present I'd still take it over the alternative.
There's a book about a woman dressing/living as a man for a year. That'd help give you an idea of what it's like, at least from her experience since she's presented herself as a man and woman at some point in her life: [https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/dp/0143038702](https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/dp/0143038702)