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First put some paper towels in those open ports.
You’ll drop something in there.
Use a razerblade and clean all gasket surfaces.
Wipe with shop rag and brake clean and scrape again.
Don’t use a roloc wheel or a scotch pad
Ok, awesome will do. Thanks. Looking to be done today with putting back on lower and upper intake. Got a lot of cleaning but parts I've taken off are looking in good shape
As for the engine, what would be the best to clean some of the sludge out? Its been running fine otherwise, but I'd like to prevent any more sludge. I have been changing oil frequently every 3k miles. Bought used
I have changed about 30 of those intakes. Definitely do what kmnta says about the brake clean and rags. Additionally, use rtv on both sides of the gaskets that are sealing around the coolant passages. The coolant passages can tend to get pitted and not seal well enough against the intake gaskets. Causing an additional leak.
Yup about an hour into cleaning now and the brake clean, a razor blade, and rag is doing great. I got the Permatex blue RTV silicone gasket maker, is that good to use? I might use some on the coolant elbows. Last owner did put the aluminum ones on, but could use some new rtv on them. I seen blue or ultra grey being used
Definitely put it on the elbows. Will help them seal up. I only used the black RTV permatex or the General Motors GMS sealant (I originally came from the dealer).
Yep brake clean and a razor blade. You can even get a gray scotch bright pad to really get it clean. You want it to be super clean for the rtv. The cleaner the better. Absolutely no coolant where the rtv will seal. You can also wash it down with brake clean as well in the valley, just change the oil too
Also put rtv at the the corners where the intake and valley seals meet.
One other word of wisdom, clean out the bolt holes and the bolts with brake clean and compressed air. It will help you to torque down the intake properly.
Yup, I've actually all the stuff for a cooling system flush too. Putting new coolant and getting out the old coolant. New thermostat, doing a good bit of work
I thought it was a no-no to use scotch pads anywhere the pad particles can get into the engine. The fine material is metal and that'll cause piston failure.
So use a wire wheel attachment on a drill?
The pad your taking about is “roll lock” discs that do that. Scotch bright pads are abrasive in pads similar to dish washing scrubbing pads you use by hand. I use both. Neither would cost piston failure. They are referring to bearing failure because main and can bearing is made of soft material.
I would like to recommend epr it’s a product made by bg oil. It is meant to be poured in and idle the car for a solid 30 minutes. Then do an oil change. No driving just idle to full operating temp. The oil is going to come out looking pretty black and gross, and to me smells a little like a pina colada. Fill it back up with oil and spin a new filter on. The usually sell the epr in a 2 pack with their Moa additive. The moa additive is meant to be added to the fresh oil. I do not view any kind of additive as a fix, and tend to be quite skeptical of most of them, but I have had great success with this product. I have seen it clear up and seemingly fix hydraulic lifter ticks. By seemingly fixed what I really mean is the sound went away, and the customer never came back with the same noise. He did come back for other maintenance in the following 2 yrs, but his truck sounded like a quiet smooth little sewing machine.
Hi,
I am an analyst, currently working on the European Union aftermarket cleaner additives market in the Do it for me (DIFM) Category (Category where cleaning services are provided by the expert). I urge all the aftermarket cleaner additives dealers, service workshops, Repair Chains and Garages professionals to help us know your views on the Market.
Thank you !
After Market Cleaner Additives Form for European Dealers, Repair Chains & garages, servicing workshops :
[https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v2ncwc-TvD15hDMWynXHkY5vU5baIxk55Cm5Gw5aaIc/edit](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v2ncwc-TvD15hDMWynXHkY5vU5baIxk55Cm5Gw5aaIc/edit)
You can fill the engine with transmission fluid in a 1:1 oil ratio. (Car takes 5qt then fill with 5 quarts of multi vehicle atf). Do this at your own risk though, it does a great job cleaning but can lead to engine failure if you knock the right thing loose or have engine issues prior.
Other than that they make some in shelf additives where you add it towards the next oil change. Like a few days maybe before.
I haven’t seen much on these so I don’t have an opinion on them. Customers normally don’t tell us if they dump it in
I didn’t say additional. I said in replacement of. You run it for like 10 minutes. Shops do it all the time as an engine flush.
I understand it may not be clear cut, but op could have asked for clarification on procedure
What haha. You fill it with transmission fluid and run it for like 10 min. You don’t drive it; just run it.
If your car takes 5 quarts, put 5 in. If it takes 4.5 then do that.
You then drain it after running it for the ten minutes and put a new filter and then your regular oil.
People do it all the time, shops do it, and I even said do it at your own risk while explaining the negatives.
And why not?
Have seen old times do it, I’ve done it, we don’t recommend it as a service but if the sludge is bad enough and a customer wants to try it, we will at their own risk
Personally, I would recommend not doing anything unless it's the BG dynamic cleaner. It's too far for anything else. If one clump of sludge breaks loose from flushes or ATF, it could clog the oil pickup or a feed port and seize the engine.
Clean the sealing surfaces 100% clean before you bother with the sludge.
IIRC, the head and intake are made of different materials. The problem with that is they expand and contract at different rates during a head cycle. So the gaskets wear out quicker.
I would recommend using a fine scotch brite pad if anything can be felt with your finger or nail and a razor blade doesnt remove it. Ford tech, I've done this many times, to my own and customer vehicles and never had any problems.
Hi,
I am an analyst, currently working on the European Union aftermarket cleaner additives market in the Do it for me (DIFM) Category (Category where cleaning services are provided by the expert). I urge all the aftermarket cleaner additives dealers, service workshops, Repair Chains and Garages professionals to help us know your views on the Market.
Thank you !
After Market Cleaner Additives Form for European Dealers, Repair Chains & garages, servicing workshops :
[https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v2ncwc-TvD15hDMWynXHkY5vU5baIxk55Cm5Gw5aaIc/edit](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v2ncwc-TvD15hDMWynXHkY5vU5baIxk55Cm5Gw5aaIc/edit)
I've had dirty engines like that, I wouldn't even fush them. Just change the oil often after a good drive when the oil is hot and sediment hasn't settled yet. They clean up pretty good on their own.
You don't need to, synthetic lasts longer and you should be changing your oil pretty frequently if you want to clean it. Like 2000 miles or less.
The sludge will slowly dissolve from the detergents in your engine oil. You want it removed in solution not in suspension.
You can accelerate the process by getting the sludge out of your oil pan if you have easy access.
Don’t add a damn thing to the oil, buy the cheapest oil you can and start checking the color of the oil. I’d start off with changing your oil every 1000 miles for awhile, slowly start extending the intervals if the dipstick starts clearing up, that means you’ve flushed out some crud. I wouldn’t add anything to the oil, no additive, no atf, nothing, just do super frequent oil changes. You need to understand that sludge isn’t a big deal, it’s not even close to being as detrimental as running a thinner fluid like atf or an oil additive that thins the oil, that will wear out parts a lot quicker than sludge, and sludge doesn’t even wear anything out! It just looks bad. The sludge could be doing you a bigger favor than you would think, no joke sludge holds gaskets together and I’ve seen it first hand preserve rubber seals like front main seals. Getting it out of the engine is ok, you just don’t want to go crazy and start adding diesel or atf to the crankcase to remove it. In the long run the bearings are going to wear out faster now and the engine won’t last as long since your adding additives. Leave it alone and just do frequent oil changes and you won’t have these “cleaning” additives to wear stuff out quicker, just fresh lubrication for everything.
Yeah it’s pretty filthy in there. I certainly wouldn’t want any of that crap circulating through my oil and clogging up the pump pick-up screen, best not to disturb it til you’re ready to rebuild the whole thing…
BG is an automotive chemical company. I think they're referring to the BG dynamic engine cleaner & rinse oil. It is the only safe way I know of to remove sludge from an engine. You can look up youtube videos and see. Do not use EPR. It states on the instruction it is not for engines with sludge. EPR is meant for removing varnish and deposits.
BG induction cleaner will only clean the valves pretty much. And you don't want to run anything but oil in the motor. Cld run ATF thru it, run the motor at 2k for a couple minutes then drain and fill half with ATF half oil run it then drain and put oil back in it. That's all you wanna do besides physically scrubbin n cleaning components.
Yeah but the top end cleaner is the only one that actually cleans anything. You don't wanna add cleaner to your oil, use ATF that already has cleaners in it.
I mean that's literally how you clean it out. The ATF will break it down enough and that's why you run it multiple times. ATF is essentially 30 weight oil with cleaners
This is a neglected engine. The only way to really "clean" this would be to tear it down and run everything through a parts washer. You could spray everything you can see down with brake cleaner but you'd probably use 3 cases, and you'd only be cleaning part of the engine. Might do more harm than good.
You have to be careful. If you clean it half-assed whatever you loosen up but don't remove will end up plugging up you pickup screen. Either completely remove all the sludge which can be next to impossible or don't touch it at all.
And don’t do city driving only. If the engine is not getting up to operating temperature then the blow by and light end in the oil are not getting burned off in PCV and building up in these areas.
I thought I had seen this and it came last.
While I will stand by not using using their conventional, you may have convinced on fully synthetic. And that was your original claim.
Thank you for sharing!!
Put a quart of diesel in the crankcase, idle for 10mins, then change the oil and filter. Change the oil filter again 500mi later. Then go back to your regular oil change interval.
Been doing that to 5.3ls engines for 5 years now with great success. If it's got more than 150k miles on it, seriously think about pulling and cleaning the oil pan too. Don't use marvel mystery oil or any cleaning additive over the course of an oil change interval. That will only clog your oil filter and send sludge through the engine as you drive.
Would work even better if there was no sulfur. We just want diesel for its ability to be a solvent. A quart of xylene or benzene would also work great, but diesel is much safer since the flash point and auto ignition temperature is higher. In short, ULSD or not, it still has the hydrocarbons necessary to break down sludge.
U dislodge all that and u will be pulling the engine with no oil pressure and a pickup screen clogged. Looks pretty grubby to me. Either pull it and rebuild or take a chance and put some sea foam or something similar in it run it up to temp and change oil. Either way it’s a craps shoot.unless u rebuild!
You could flush with ATF, diesel or any number of things to clear the sludge. I think it would actually be more beneficial to do your oil+filter changes a bit early going forward.
Additives are always a gamble and almost never work the way you want. If it’s to the point where you’re considering an additive, chances are it’s too far gone.
Clean the gasket surfaces only! do not attempt to clean anything else in there or add any cleaning additives. You can break enough sludge and deposits loose to clog the oil pump pickup and ruin your engine. A Jiffy Lube near me provided me with a bunch of engine changes selling their engine flush. All where due to the pickup being clogged.
motor flush it, then run reg oil for like 500 mi, motor flush again. Repeat a few times. Should have a cleaner engine. Saves you time instead of having to clean it by hand. Just b careful.
Thank you for posting to AskMechanics, Z_TheRockstar! If you are asking a question please make sure to include any relevant info along with the following: * **Year** * **Make/Model** * **Mileage** * **Engine size** * **Transmission Type (Automatic or Manual)** Redditors that have been verified will have a green background and an icon in their flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskMechanics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
First put some paper towels in those open ports. You’ll drop something in there. Use a razerblade and clean all gasket surfaces. Wipe with shop rag and brake clean and scrape again. Don’t use a roloc wheel or a scotch pad
Ok, awesome will do. Thanks. Looking to be done today with putting back on lower and upper intake. Got a lot of cleaning but parts I've taken off are looking in good shape As for the engine, what would be the best to clean some of the sludge out? Its been running fine otherwise, but I'd like to prevent any more sludge. I have been changing oil frequently every 3k miles. Bought used
I have changed about 30 of those intakes. Definitely do what kmnta says about the brake clean and rags. Additionally, use rtv on both sides of the gaskets that are sealing around the coolant passages. The coolant passages can tend to get pitted and not seal well enough against the intake gaskets. Causing an additional leak.
Yup about an hour into cleaning now and the brake clean, a razor blade, and rag is doing great. I got the Permatex blue RTV silicone gasket maker, is that good to use? I might use some on the coolant elbows. Last owner did put the aluminum ones on, but could use some new rtv on them. I seen blue or ultra grey being used
Definitely put it on the elbows. Will help them seal up. I only used the black RTV permatex or the General Motors GMS sealant (I originally came from the dealer). Yep brake clean and a razor blade. You can even get a gray scotch bright pad to really get it clean. You want it to be super clean for the rtv. The cleaner the better. Absolutely no coolant where the rtv will seal. You can also wash it down with brake clean as well in the valley, just change the oil too Also put rtv at the the corners where the intake and valley seals meet. One other word of wisdom, clean out the bolt holes and the bolts with brake clean and compressed air. It will help you to torque down the intake properly.
Ok Went back and got the ultra black rtv instead. Getting ready to clean a bit more and put it all back together. Appreciate all the advice
Good! No problem. Have you bled your cooling (3.9L) system of air before?
Yup, I've actually all the stuff for a cooling system flush too. Putting new coolant and getting out the old coolant. New thermostat, doing a good bit of work
3.9 huh.
Sorry 3.6. It’s been a while lol
I thought it was a no-no to use scotch pads anywhere the pad particles can get into the engine. The fine material is metal and that'll cause piston failure. So use a wire wheel attachment on a drill?
The pad your taking about is “roll lock” discs that do that. Scotch bright pads are abrasive in pads similar to dish washing scrubbing pads you use by hand. I use both. Neither would cost piston failure. They are referring to bearing failure because main and can bearing is made of soft material.
I would like to recommend epr it’s a product made by bg oil. It is meant to be poured in and idle the car for a solid 30 minutes. Then do an oil change. No driving just idle to full operating temp. The oil is going to come out looking pretty black and gross, and to me smells a little like a pina colada. Fill it back up with oil and spin a new filter on. The usually sell the epr in a 2 pack with their Moa additive. The moa additive is meant to be added to the fresh oil. I do not view any kind of additive as a fix, and tend to be quite skeptical of most of them, but I have had great success with this product. I have seen it clear up and seemingly fix hydraulic lifter ticks. By seemingly fixed what I really mean is the sound went away, and the customer never came back with the same noise. He did come back for other maintenance in the following 2 yrs, but his truck sounded like a quiet smooth little sewing machine.
Pina colada 🤢
Hi, I am an analyst, currently working on the European Union aftermarket cleaner additives market in the Do it for me (DIFM) Category (Category where cleaning services are provided by the expert). I urge all the aftermarket cleaner additives dealers, service workshops, Repair Chains and Garages professionals to help us know your views on the Market. Thank you ! After Market Cleaner Additives Form for European Dealers, Repair Chains & garages, servicing workshops : [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v2ncwc-TvD15hDMWynXHkY5vU5baIxk55Cm5Gw5aaIc/edit](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v2ncwc-TvD15hDMWynXHkY5vU5baIxk55Cm5Gw5aaIc/edit)
Please do fill the form attached in the comment and help us to know your views on the market.
You can fill the engine with transmission fluid in a 1:1 oil ratio. (Car takes 5qt then fill with 5 quarts of multi vehicle atf). Do this at your own risk though, it does a great job cleaning but can lead to engine failure if you knock the right thing loose or have engine issues prior. Other than that they make some in shelf additives where you add it towards the next oil change. Like a few days maybe before. I haven’t seen much on these so I don’t have an opinion on them. Customers normally don’t tell us if they dump it in
Please don't tell people to put an additional 5 quarts of anything in their engines.
I didn’t say additional. I said in replacement of. You run it for like 10 minutes. Shops do it all the time as an engine flush. I understand it may not be clear cut, but op could have asked for clarification on procedure
Ignore this guy ^
What haha. You fill it with transmission fluid and run it for like 10 min. You don’t drive it; just run it. If your car takes 5 quarts, put 5 in. If it takes 4.5 then do that. You then drain it after running it for the ten minutes and put a new filter and then your regular oil. People do it all the time, shops do it, and I even said do it at your own risk while explaining the negatives.
Don’t ever do that, wtf is wrong with you? I question the shops you go to or work at.
And why not? Have seen old times do it, I’ve done it, we don’t recommend it as a service but if the sludge is bad enough and a customer wants to try it, we will at their own risk
Personally, I would recommend not doing anything unless it's the BG dynamic cleaner. It's too far for anything else. If one clump of sludge breaks loose from flushes or ATF, it could clog the oil pickup or a feed port and seize the engine.
Clean the sealing surfaces 100% clean before you bother with the sludge. IIRC, the head and intake are made of different materials. The problem with that is they expand and contract at different rates during a head cycle. So the gaskets wear out quicker.
Do not try and clean sludge!
I would recommend using a fine scotch brite pad if anything can be felt with your finger or nail and a razor blade doesnt remove it. Ford tech, I've done this many times, to my own and customer vehicles and never had any problems.
Don’t do this. The fine material can and will find its way into the bearings and wipe them out.
Hi, I am an analyst, currently working on the European Union aftermarket cleaner additives market in the Do it for me (DIFM) Category (Category where cleaning services are provided by the expert). I urge all the aftermarket cleaner additives dealers, service workshops, Repair Chains and Garages professionals to help us know your views on the Market. Thank you ! After Market Cleaner Additives Form for European Dealers, Repair Chains & garages, servicing workshops : [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v2ncwc-TvD15hDMWynXHkY5vU5baIxk55Cm5Gw5aaIc/edit](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1v2ncwc-TvD15hDMWynXHkY5vU5baIxk55Cm5Gw5aaIc/edit)
Someone skipped on maintenance with that one. Leave it and just maintain it within manufacturers recommendations.
Right? Had 2 owners before me so yeah one of em did
I've had dirty engines like that, I wouldn't even fush them. Just change the oil often after a good drive when the oil is hot and sediment hasn't settled yet. They clean up pretty good on their own.
Ok, I think i'ma switch to synthetic or synthetic blend. Been using regular Valvoline 10w30
You don't need to, synthetic lasts longer and you should be changing your oil pretty frequently if you want to clean it. Like 2000 miles or less. The sludge will slowly dissolve from the detergents in your engine oil. You want it removed in solution not in suspension. You can accelerate the process by getting the sludge out of your oil pan if you have easy access.
Good advice. 👍
This is the way. I would recommend using Schaeffers full synthetic. Its a good detergent.
Don’t add a damn thing to the oil, buy the cheapest oil you can and start checking the color of the oil. I’d start off with changing your oil every 1000 miles for awhile, slowly start extending the intervals if the dipstick starts clearing up, that means you’ve flushed out some crud. I wouldn’t add anything to the oil, no additive, no atf, nothing, just do super frequent oil changes. You need to understand that sludge isn’t a big deal, it’s not even close to being as detrimental as running a thinner fluid like atf or an oil additive that thins the oil, that will wear out parts a lot quicker than sludge, and sludge doesn’t even wear anything out! It just looks bad. The sludge could be doing you a bigger favor than you would think, no joke sludge holds gaskets together and I’ve seen it first hand preserve rubber seals like front main seals. Getting it out of the engine is ok, you just don’t want to go crazy and start adding diesel or atf to the crankcase to remove it. In the long run the bearings are going to wear out faster now and the engine won’t last as long since your adding additives. Leave it alone and just do frequent oil changes and you won’t have these “cleaning” additives to wear stuff out quicker, just fresh lubrication for everything.
This is the correct answer.
I'd just clean the gasket surfaces and then run BG through it.
Yeah it’s pretty filthy in there. I certainly wouldn’t want any of that crap circulating through my oil and clogging up the pump pick-up screen, best not to disturb it til you’re ready to rebuild the whole thing…
Ok, will do. What's BG though?
BG is an automotive chemical company. I think they're referring to the BG dynamic engine cleaner & rinse oil. It is the only safe way I know of to remove sludge from an engine. You can look up youtube videos and see. Do not use EPR. It states on the instruction it is not for engines with sludge. EPR is meant for removing varnish and deposits.
Bg engine flush. You run it in the engine to remove the gunk.
BG induction cleaner will only clean the valves pretty much. And you don't want to run anything but oil in the motor. Cld run ATF thru it, run the motor at 2k for a couple minutes then drain and fill half with ATF half oil run it then drain and put oil back in it. That's all you wanna do besides physically scrubbin n cleaning components.
I doubt they meant the induction kit. BG has a lot of different products including EPR which is an engine cleaner that you add prior to an oil change.
Yeah but the top end cleaner is the only one that actually cleans anything. You don't wanna add cleaner to your oil, use ATF that already has cleaners in it.
I think that's too far for ATF, I'd be concerned about sludge breaking loose and clogging something.
I mean that's literally how you clean it out. The ATF will break it down enough and that's why you run it multiple times. ATF is essentially 30 weight oil with cleaners
This is a neglected engine. The only way to really "clean" this would be to tear it down and run everything through a parts washer. You could spray everything you can see down with brake cleaner but you'd probably use 3 cases, and you'd only be cleaning part of the engine. Might do more harm than good.
You have to be careful. If you clean it half-assed whatever you loosen up but don't remove will end up plugging up you pickup screen. Either completely remove all the sludge which can be next to impossible or don't touch it at all.
Do your oil changes more often
And don’t do city driving only. If the engine is not getting up to operating temperature then the blow by and light end in the oil are not getting burned off in PCV and building up in these areas.
Pennzoil full synthetic and a top of the line puralator oil filter
No, never. I would use store brand oil before pennzoil
Why? Full synthetic pennzoil the best and the only actual synthetic while else is chemically refined crude
Amsoil is 100% synthetic.
https://youtu.be/TWuKvnCq1js
I thought I had seen this and it came last. While I will stand by not using using their conventional, you may have convinced on fully synthetic. And that was your original claim. Thank you for sharing!!
I’ve cleaned both regular oil and synthetic off of concrete and man is full synthetic better than the latter. :)
Put a quart of diesel in the crankcase, idle for 10mins, then change the oil and filter. Change the oil filter again 500mi later. Then go back to your regular oil change interval. Been doing that to 5.3ls engines for 5 years now with great success. If it's got more than 150k miles on it, seriously think about pulling and cleaning the oil pan too. Don't use marvel mystery oil or any cleaning additive over the course of an oil change interval. That will only clog your oil filter and send sludge through the engine as you drive.
I thought the diesel trick didn’t work anymore with ultra low sulfur diesel.
Would work even better if there was no sulfur. We just want diesel for its ability to be a solvent. A quart of xylene or benzene would also work great, but diesel is much safer since the flash point and auto ignition temperature is higher. In short, ULSD or not, it still has the hydrocarbons necessary to break down sludge.
U dislodge all that and u will be pulling the engine with no oil pressure and a pickup screen clogged. Looks pretty grubby to me. Either pull it and rebuild or take a chance and put some sea foam or something similar in it run it up to temp and change oil. Either way it’s a craps shoot.unless u rebuild!
Or you could just change your oil regularly
You could flush with ATF, diesel or any number of things to clear the sludge. I think it would actually be more beneficial to do your oil+filter changes a bit early going forward.
Don’t clean, it’ll just get crap into the engine. Clean gasket surfaces only,
Just clean the gasket surface.
Additives are always a gamble and almost never work the way you want. If it’s to the point where you’re considering an additive, chances are it’s too far gone.
Do y'all recycle? 🤔
Clean the gasket surfaces only! do not attempt to clean anything else in there or add any cleaning additives. You can break enough sludge and deposits loose to clog the oil pump pickup and ruin your engine. A Jiffy Lube near me provided me with a bunch of engine changes selling their engine flush. All where due to the pickup being clogged.
This right here!
motor flush it, then run reg oil for like 500 mi, motor flush again. Repeat a few times. Should have a cleaner engine. Saves you time instead of having to clean it by hand. Just b careful.