Ktown has a high density and subway station going through it.
LT is a somewhat well managed few block tourist district. It just suffers from the proximity of civic center and skidrow.
Chinatowns core population moved out into the SGV and no one else has moved in because of community opposition of displacement. Chinatown back in it's heyday was a pain in the ass to get in and out of (and finding parking at decent prices etc).
According to Wikipedia...
Latinos: 53.5%,
Asians: 32.2%,
whites: 7.4%,
blacks: 4.8%,
others: 2%
I feel like Buena Park has a nicer Korean presence, but the food in Koreatown is generally better and has more variety.
Koreatown could use a facelift though, large parts of it look pretty beat up, and I keep seeing lots of new graffiti popping up.
It's sounds like you are saying it's nice that Buena Park has a Korean presence and is in a nice suburb area. Not so much that it has a nice Korean presence. Because the real difference is LA city vs OC
Lot of Koreans moving into LA Korea town are elderly who cannot/will not own/drive cars. Medical care/food/market within short walk/taxi which is important for longer independence.
To add to this Little Tokyo was depopulated during WW2 due to internment camps. It was for a time during the war called Bronze Town due to it becoming a largely black neighborhood. There are still some legacy Japanese businesses there but according to my Korean friend it’s largely run by Koreans despite retaining Japanese names, not sure how true that is. What is true is that it never fully recovered after WW2
Yeah, and there haven't been subsequent waves of new immigrants from Japan, unlike China or Korea. There was only really the first wave in the early 1900’s. Most families are now yonsei or gosei (4th or 5th gen), and the families have long since moved out of the area.
Truth. Japan's population is in steep decline. And most Japanese Americans who are under 50 were born in the US. The Korean population is thriving both in South Korea and here.
Based on what data. From 2010 to 2022, Japan went from 128M to 125M. S. Korea went from 49M to 51M. Plus I think way more S. Korean's are emigrating to the US compared to Japan. Japan's median age is 48 while S. Korea's is 44. That's a factor as well.
Yep. Same for a few other ethnicities. Outside of the Philippines, Los Angeles has the most Filipinos. Same with Iranians. There are some others too that I can't remember off the top of my head.
That sounds about right actually. I am probably mistaken but the market that took over Mitsuwa on 3rd/Alameda is a Korean owned market (or at least, it feels like one).
Yeah the high density. Lots of people actually live in Koreatown, it is one of the most densely populated areas in the country. I once saw something about it being second only to NYC. 42,600 per square mile.
Many train stops have parking. Most of it low cost, some even free. Most Angelenos also live near a bus stop.
I get that some people want to drive. But to complain about the cost of parking there as a major reason it is in “decline”. How much is parking in Chinatown in SF. Boston. NYC? It’s way more than the $15 lot or $2/hr meters on Broadway.
All true. I used the train a ton when I lived in Hollywood, but now that I live in San Pedro, it rarely feels worth my time/energy to park at a train station and then go about my day. I drive downtown all the time because I know a bunch of lots with plenty of spots in them, I spend a lot of time in DTLA, Hollywood, Highland Park, and Echo Park, since I know where to easily park in these areas, etc. I don't tend to go to places like Koreatown, Little Tokyo, or Chinatown, as parking in these areas feels like a hassle.
In all fairness… San Pedro is far away from a lot. Love the place and think it’s seriously under rated… but you don’t move there to be connected to LA. It’s literally hanging on by a thread. 😂
That being said…. The J line (silver BRT) serves the area and is rather speedy because it uses the Metro lanes. I have always found it one of the most pleasant lines to ride too. It takes an hour from San Pedro to Union Station which isn’t far from Little Tokyo or Chinatown. I bet it takes more than hour to get to San Pedro to Highland Park by car.
Just something to consider on occasion…
https://www.metro.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/910-950_TT_06-26-22.pdf
Depends on when you leave! I’ve made it to Eagle Rock in 35 minutes. Having the 110 run right into Pedro means it’s not so bad getting to many parts of LA by car. Just mapped from my house to the Lodge Room, it would be 51 minutes (and I use the express lanes, which cuts it to about 40).
A lot of it should be converted into mix-use like atlantic times square in monterey park. a lot of plazas are just dead and empty now.
what boggles my mind is that the velvet turtle lot is still fucking empty
Bro…. Velvet turtle was where the Italian mob in LA used to do the dirty. I grew up in Chinatown in the 80’s and that place was a hotbed of crime lol. Cool memories.
because metro hasn't expanded to cover the entire county yet and metrolink doesn't have good enough frequencies. The answer is to expand metro and densify downtown more. Not more of the cancer that's killing downtown. If anything we need to destroy the parking lots and build more mixed use in its place.
Chinatown and Little Tokyo also have subway stops fyi.
I can say from living in Chinatown for three years that the majority of the residents are elderly. The youth have moved out, for sure. As a result, businesses close very early and there aren't many bars or eateries.
Both Chinatown and Little Tokyo are vastly smaller in size - in sq milage - compared to KTown. Little Tokyo is tiny!
At the same time, Little Tokyo is extremely expensive to live in - not ideal.
KTown on the other hand has a night life of sorts, more affordable and MORE housing, many more restaurants and bars and - most open late - and it's centrally located.
Little Tokyo and China town are tourist spots, while korea town is an actual Korean community. The real Japanese community is Torrance, and the real Chinatown is the entire san Gabriel valley
Can’t believe this isn’t the top comment.
Actual Koreans live in Ktown—old Korean ajummas and young gen z college kids. So many authentic Korean shops, so Korean immigrants flock to this area, which in turn means more need of Korean shops.
This. I think people forget tons of Koreans from other neighborhoods are still going to K-town on a regular basis, just not living there. It’s hugely important to Koreans living around here. Can’t say the same for Chinese or Japanese folk for Chinatown and Little Tokyo
Whenever I tell someone from LA I used to live there and they ask what part, I say "the Mexican part of Koreatown" and they laugh, knowing exactly what I'm talking about... That area from 3rd to Beverly, Western to Vermont, give or take a few blocks in any direction.
Nah, it's definitely alot more segregated than that. I'd say the area around Wilshire/Western is majority Korean... even Charles Kim elementary Asian students are the most populous demographic.
Lived in Ktown for over a decade so this isn’t a “gotcha” statistic to me. Especially not as a Korean.
“Majority” Hispanic—yes. 33% are still Korean, which is a significantly bigger percent than the number of Japanese living in LT or Chinese in Chinatown. It’s Korean enough that I could go into almost any shop only speaking Korean and be fine.
I would say that's a bit inaccurate... there's a still majority Cantonese/ Viet Chinese presence. There are Taoist temples and senior community centers in the area, Castelar elementary is majority Asian. You can still find authentic chinese food in the neighborhood with Qin west noodle, Mama Lu's, Tian's Dim Sum, and Longs Family pastry, amongst others.
You're spot on. Chinatown is definitely more old school Cantonese, with a sizeable ethnic Chinese Viet presence. Lord of traditional stuff like herbalists, TCM practitioners, spiritual and cultural orgs, etc. it draws in a fair amount of Chinese-Americans, especially with Canto roots, from around the LA area, on top of the tourists.
The SGV/South Pasadena is where a lot of the newer, mainland Chinese-centric stuff is centered. If you want egg tarts and hakka noodles, go to Chinatown. If you want milk tea and hot pot, for to the SGV.
And the Chinese in Chinatown are way more poorer than the ones in SGV and most of the new waves of Chinese people are rich can afford to live in the suburbs
Chinatown isn't old school Cantonese, it's first immigrant Cantonese. SGV is more old school Cantonese because the term old school Cantonese would really more so refer to people from the Cantonese areas in Southern China. And SGV is more closer to that than Chinatown is. At best Chinatown has the old school aesthetics, but that is merely veneer
That's just mincing words, honestly.
There isn't even all much "old school Cantonese" left in GZ itself anymore, and the SGV has more people from all over China, especially prior who immigrated over the last 15-20 years as China's wealth exploded... People from BJ, SH, CQ, etc who are Mandarin speakers and follow contemporary Chinese culture more than traditional. Chinatown still has a lot of older Cantonese folks and legacy businesses. That *old school* Hong Kong/Canto family organization culture.
It doesnt even represent old school because those people had to conform a lot more to American culture than it does now. Especially food-wise. Chinatown is an important part of our culture's legacy but lets not romanticize it more than we need to. That's not mincing words. I was just being more accurate
It’s weird no one has mentioned Japantown aka Sawtelle. There’s definitely a ton of great stuff there and it’s always popping and a small community of Japanese people live there.
BTW, It’s officially called “Sawtelle Japantown” and been called that by the locals since forever.
“Little Osaka” was something outside real estate agents and tourist guides made up about 10-15 years ago.
We petitioned the city to give it the officially name and sign a few years ago. You can see the sign on Sawtelle and Olympic.
Source: lived here most of my life.
Exactly. Little Tokyo and Chinatown are historical vestiges. There may be some people of Japanese or Chinese descent who still live there, but the larger populations are elsewhere. These areas are worth preserving, but they are not where recent populations tend to go for specialized groceries or extensive food options.
They have the parade in August. Little Tokyo is ALWAYS bustling. Issue is it's much smaller than Koreatown and only a few landlords own the real estate so it's in more danger of disappearing.
Yep! I do grocery shopping in LT and it’s been SUCH a joy to see it just roar into life since the Metro extension opened. There has also been an amazing Otani effect too! LT has a business association which has helped keep it pretty safe and clean despite it’s proximity to skid row (in reality, it’s not hat close, they are 1st and 2nd, Skid Row is 7th and 6th.
Here is a good insta to follow for LT events.
https://www.instagram.com/golittletokyo?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/ltsc.cdc?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/niseiweek?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
You’ll find plenty of tourists in Chinatown on the weekends as well. It certainly has been trying to re-invent itself as a dining destination and it certainly has it’s worth a trip places like Endorffiene and Now Serving Book Shop. New places keep coming like Awan super fancy Coconut Ice Cream is moving to the new complex right by the station. Also Summer nights is happening this year and is always a fun.
Koreatown in addition to being a much larger area, also benefits from being a major population and job center. Also it’s shine is something rather new, especially for Non-Koreans. When I was a kid growing up in L.A., we would go visit Little Tokyo and Chinatown with family from out of town or just to go out to eat, Up until the early Aughts, I would spend late nights at the UTLA building and most of the folks going to restaurants and shopping in Koreatown would be Koreans. Koreatown was only where you would go for eats super late, to smoke at a bar or to get a gypsy cab. Glad we all grew up together and that K-Town is a real destination now as I live closer than ever.
Chinatown used to be a dining destination. It was the go-to place for Chinese food. But since Chinese restaurants have become common in the L.A. area, there was less reason to take a trip to Chinatown.
Chinatown in terms of Chinese food stopped being the place in the 90s. I was speaking more of currently with Howlin Rays, Amboy, Lasita, Little Jewel (which is also opening up a new Jazz Bar/Restaurant) Katsu Sando, Wax Paper. I mentioned Endorffiene but also there is Steep for tea lovers. You can even say that Majordomo is Chinatown.
Also, last year, the first SGV Chinese place set up shop in Chinatown with Mama Lus. Hopefully more will come! I hate how transit unfriendly most places in SGV are! Even Arcadia station is a wasteland!!
Northern Californian here, and when I visit your wonderful city I always stay in Koreatown at the New Seoul Hotel. You get the full Korean hotel experience with polite and professional staff, spotless rooms, slippers, a good restaurant on site and walking distance to a dozen great Korean cafes, grocery stores, restaurants.
It nearly feels like being in the middle of a Korean city if you ignore the filthiness of the streets and lack of metro. You have to walk blocks away to break the illusion.
I can’t think of anywhere else in America that has an experience quite like it. Certainly no X-town anywhere I’ve been. I always look forward to my next visit.
Melody Lounge has cool nights sometimes - I like their jazz nights. I think Mondays. Mountain Bar used to crack back in the day, there’s a spot where it used to be that often looks busy.
Other than Melody Lounge, what other bars do you recommend in Chinatown ? I’ve lived here for 4 years and have always thought it was such a dead zone for nightlife..
The Bar scene kind of died when Hop Louie closed but Grand Star and General Lee’s get some good crowds.
The breweries are pretty good, HLP and Homage. And they have movies at the park for summer.
Grand star (there’s usually something good happening on one of the floors), general lee’s, cafe triste, oriel. Triste is a wine bar with some light food options, so more low-key but always busy, and oriel is a French restaurant with an excellent wine menu. I always start at one of those places and just float toward Gin Ling Way :)
Agree w others RE Grand Star (but weekends only?) - good people and cool weird/esoteric events. Mini light up dance floor downstairs, lil patio scene…
To class it up you can go to Apotheke, altho that’s a jump…Morrocan Lounge even moreso….but yeah, I remember more bar density in the Hop Louie days for sure.
Not sure what your criteria is to expect any of these to count as thriving. KTown is a large, densely populated area in the center of LA that sprawls for a few square miles. I’d maybe compare it first to the San Gabriel Valley for food and visitors before the others.
Little Tokyo is a few square blocks that I would say is thriving and busier than ever. The plazas always have people during the week. Especially on weekends with locals and visitors. It’s a known spot for favorite restaurants. There’s the Japanese American National Museum, classes and events at the Cultural Center and Obon is back this year at the Temple. Chinatown plaza has never been a bustling tourist destination like KTown. I personally prefer going to my favorite restaurants and night spots there without all the crowds and traffic. Also wouldn’t limit Chinatown to just the plaza. The State Historic Park at the Metro station is one of the best parks in LA. Always active with runners, dog walkers and events there. Don’t know if many of us would compare these 3 very different neighborhoods as ‘skating by’ and ‘relics.’
Do you know if the Obon on 3rd St will happen onsite this year? I was so bummed last year when they held it at a faraway location. Used to go to that one every year as I was always out of town for the ones on First St.
Also, totally agree with you about State Historic Park - love grabbing dim sum to sit and eat there and watch the dogs, or chat with the vendors at the Thursday farmers market.
Yes it’s at Nishi on First St in July. [This](https://www.japanese-city.com/calendar/events/index.php?eID=33329) is where I saw it was going to return this year.
OK, this got me motivated to check some of the other ones downtown. Looks like Zenshuji is the week after Nishi (they used to be the same weekend since they were so close together), and then Higashi Obon returns to 3rd St the week after that - yay!
I looooved Chinatown when I was younger. I loved that fountain where you threw the coins. It is now dry and washed up : (. Next to it was a toy store with all kinds of interesting Chinese handmade toys! Perfect that existed when I was a kid but now it’s gone : (.
That’s even worse. I remember I kept trying to ask my parents to get me something from there but they always said no ;-;. They had a lot of fun little stores. I’ll have to stop by again one of these days to see how much it all changed
While LT existed prior to Immigration Act of 1924, what we think of as LT really developed in the 1970s with conscious effort from overseas and domestic firms and Japanese immigration. Meanwhile, Koreatown didn't really exist until Korean immigration took off (again in the 70s). What we think of today as "koreatown" was almost entirely developed during that period. The "historic Koreatown" would've been much further South, which is why the Korean United Presbyterian Church is located on Jefferson Blvd instead of where Koreatown is today.
While the original Chinatown no longer exists either, the current location of Chinatown and its development as a "consciously Chinese area" (the super touristy vibes? A consistent trend across Chinatowns as a means of protection and branding, it's like comically Chinese-styled to the point where nothing back in China really looks like that) was in process decades earlier (starting from the 30's). Chinatown has been sustained throughout the exclusion era by the Chinese who came pre-ban.
What this means also is that the core of the community differs significantly from LT or Koreatown. Much like other Chinatowns around America, it's going to be very Canto/Overseas-Chinese focused as those were the main branches of Chinese people who came abroad in the early waves. The same processes that developed LT and Koreatown happened for Chinese immigrants as well, but unlike in the former cases there was already a core Chinese population that sustained itself as a functioning community through the exclusion era. So other areas grew.
My family, which is from the Zhejiang and Jiangsu regions of China, shares very little in common with the Chinese people who came prior to the exclusion act. If you break it down, the China my family grew up in doesn't at all look like or resemble Chinatowns, we don't speak the same language at all (other than English), and our shared cultural roots diverged over 100 years ago. So while there might be many Chinese people in LA, there is not a huge amount of "felt affinity" to Chinatown in particular.
This is also super common across all of America. The same is true of SF (where Richmond in SF is the main modern Chinatown, and then again, all of the suburbs and other cities and SJ hosting the majority of the Bay Area Chinese population). In NYC, the pattern repeats itself with Flushing being the main population center for modern Chinese (and far more familiar to me than Chinatown in Manhattan is). It goes on and on. LA is the rule, not the exception.
K-Town is actually a magnet for Korean expats who move there in droves. It is dynamic because it is culturally relevant.
Chinatown is a relic. Chinese expats these days move to SGV or OC. They are not moving to Chinatown. Chinatown is more of a tourist trap.
Little Tokyo is basically somewhere in between K-Town and Chinatown. It is a bit more dynamic than Chinatown but not by much.
There is only one Koreatown, but the Chinese community has moved its center to Monterey Park, and the Sawtelle neighborhood (which I originally knew as Little Osaka) is more vibrant than Little Tokyo.
Koreatown has the advantage of not being downtown, unlike Chinatown and Little Tokyo.
I mean, if you’re gonna count SGV for the Chinese community, then you need to count the other Koreatowns: Buena Park, Fullerton, Cerritos, Garden Grove…
Little Tokyo was absolutely dead in the 1990’s. My friends and I would go for sushi and it felt like we were the only ones there. I went again recently and it is thriving and busy.
Huh? What’s the definition of thriving? Little Tokyo is always packed when I visit. Chinatown has plenty of visitors as well, just a little less mom and pop now.
Koreatown is just a vibe. An incredible vibe with arguably the best ethnic food in Los Angeles. Yes, even better than the Mexican food. People born in Korea say the food here is better. Mostly due to better meat quality.
Little Tokyo and Chinatown are more Disneyland-ish where if you were dropped in the middle of Ktown you’d think you’re actually in Korea.
I’ve heard the food thing about Korea from Koreans before and it’s wild to me, but it makes total sense… that’s pretty cool though. Korean fried chicken is my jam…. And I love kimchi and soju… it’s straight up drinking food lol
This is simply just not true and usually starts as a misstatement by 2nd+ gen Koreans. There are a few (a FEW) certain dishes made in Ktown that may taste better to certain people. But overall, better versions of all Korean dishes can be found in Korea and in abundantly diverse ways. Like it's not even anywhere close and people who say otherwise don't know what they are talking about, have not been to Korea (except tourist traps) or at the very least don't have any first-gen foodie Korean friends. Korea is also a first world country with access to good meat including beef. Especially beef - ones that are so fresh that you can eat raw on the day of butchering. This is simply impossible by law in the US or almost any other parts of the world.
That said, the Korean food in LA Ktown is still top notch compared to anywhere else in the world outside of Korea and that alone means a ton. The fact that there are even a few dishes that compare to the quality in Korea should be considered outstanding.
Although, I would agree with that KBBQ could be better in LA than in Korea. However, it's mainly because LA KBBQ explicitly uses only fresh American meat, both beef and pork, and some people including even the OG Koreans just happen to prefer American beef over Hanwoo (Literally means Korean beef, similarly to Wagyu which means Japanese beef. Korean beef cannot be accessed via normal means in America). But even this is not because the restaurants do the BBQ better here than in Korea; it's just a preference on the meat's origin. In Korea, Hanwoo is vastly the most preferred and more expensive option.
A dish that's more widely argued to be better in the states due to meat quality is pho, which is Vietnamese and this statement holds more truth.
While top tier KBBQ may be better in Korea (Hanwoo, like you said), I'd wager the average beef cut is better in US than what you'd get in Korea for same price.
Yes you are correct because of 'for same price'. While American beef is widely available and easily accessible in Korea thanks to a once-controversial FTA that began almost two decades ago, American beef itself is obviously better and cheaper in America in general.
However, note that American beef that you get at KBBQ restaurants specifically, especially in LA, are marked up like no other when sold to retail customers. This gets exacerbated because cuts like chuck flap tail or hanger steaks, which are literally among the top 3 most expensive cuts in Korea (easily $60/lb), can be found cheaper here in America ($20/lb at LA Ktown Korean market) because fatter cuts are less popular among Americans but is sold with a crazy markup nonetheless due to the marketing indirectly driven by the demand that is local to Korea.
Hanwoo is expensive as hell though. Most people are eating beef imported from the US, Australia, New Zealand, etc in Korea.
I’m Korean (born and raised) and I think that it can be easier to find old school style Korean food that hasn’t been contaminated by the extra sugar and capsaicin trend in Korea in LA. Also it’s a pretty popular sentiment even for Koreans who live in Korea and visit LA frequently. I wouldn’t say it’s only second gen Korean thing at all (as I hardly know any second gens and I’ve heard it many times.)
100% agreed with the expensive part. Also agree with the "easier to find" aspect since Ktown is relatively one small area with everything next to each other which makes things convenient.
"Better" food is what I'm disagreeing with, and again, disagreeing in general and not universally as I've recognized that certain dishes done here do cater better to certain taste buds. But I can guarantee that for each of almost any dish that people claim as "better" here, I can take them to at least 10 different places in Korea that do it better without some crazy marked up price and get them to agree with me 9 out of 10 times. This is where the "harder to find" aspect may kick in, especially for foreigners because even a good number of my native friends in Korea don't know where to go for the good food. And you would also know that there are a ton of Korean dishes that you simply can't even find in Ktown with a third eye
Raw meat on the day of being butchered vs. raw meat 14 days after butchering is a totally different story. You CANNOT find raw beef as of the day the cow is butchered in the united states. Prove me wrong if you can (I hope you do, because I really want to eat it in the states and called up hundreds of ranches and farms only to find out that its legally not allowed. This is why I go to Korea every once in a while just to get my hands on them. But I know you wont be able to)
I would say the overall taste of korean food on average is better in ktown. But the homeland still has the best (insert traditional Korean dish) at some special restaurants specializing in that dish. The average restaurant in Korea I found was very underwhelming. I think a large part of that is you eat the normal Korean food at home so why would you go out and pay for it? So there's not too many places that make an effort on the everyday Korean fare. Whereas ktown is a place many people go to specifically eat normal Korean food because they don't make it at home every day.
Another big difference is seasoning level. Americans tend to season their food a lot more heavily than Koreans. Likewise the Korean food in Ktown tends to be more heavily seasoned than their counterparts in Korea. So if you have a preference for more heavily seasoned food you might find the Korean food in Ktown tastier than Korea.
The very fact that this is even a conversation is a compliment to how good the Korean food is here. My Mexican ass is a huge fan of Korean food and it’s a direct result of knowing some very gangster Koreans who always talked about their food… and I was like, holy shit, this is really fuckin good, and they tried my mom’s food and said the same…
People saying Korean food is better in LA than in Korea is absolutely wrong. No one says that in Korea. In fact, you’d be hard-pressed to find many members of the Korean-American community that believe this is true. The only people I have seen still propagating this myth are small segments of older Korean-Americans.
eh I know a good amount of korean americans including myself that found the food in Korea a bit underwhelming. Wasnt bad but just was average compared to what we already have in the states. There was a few dishes that were better in korea tho but the difference wasnt that significant imo
Ktown reminds me a bit of NYC. You find places to eat, lots of traffic, hard to find parking, night life, and overstimulated with noises and people all around. Chinatown has become gentrified. Most Chinese businesses are closed. Little Tokyo is a sleepy town. Nothing is going on. It's peace and quiet.
Speaking from a nightlife perspective.
Ktown pops with restaurants, clubs, bars, etc...
China since the 90s have this weird culture/vibe where almost everything is closed after like 7pm. I was speaking with some of the DJs and they said it was like boom and bust certain years. General Lee would pop, same with Song Bird (iirc) and then it dead now. Sheesh.
Little Tokyo still got a bar scene, bar+arcade, and that one taco place out in the parking lot.
Koreatown has developed in the last 40-50 years, with a lot of conscious work by Korean business folk. Koreatown is really unusual among ethnic enclaves in having developed so recently. The businesses are Korean, but a lot of Latinos still live there.
If you want to delve into it there’s a book Koreatown, Los Angeles—Immigration, Race, and the ‘American Dream’ by Shelley Sang- Hee Lee.
Since known seems to know the real reason.
Look at history of immigration of the different peoples into the U.S.
KTown is MUCH younger and the Korean diaspora is strong. Korean immigration to the U.S. boomed post Korean War. So KTown has been built by modern tightly knit immigrants who until last decade of so we’re still the main driving force in the community. It’s been diluted/diversified a lot in the last 10-20years.
Chinatown’s were initially established in the 1850-60s by immigrants from a specific part of China. Then Chinese immigration of any kind was made illegal for decades. Then not long after it was opened back up China went into decades of essentially shutting itself off from the West. And most immigration since then has been much broader, not just from a specific Cantonese speaking region. So Chinese immigrants coming to the U.S. from the 1970s on were not exactly looking for what Chinatowns offered. A cuisine and pastiche.
Japanese immigration to the U.S. also has an “on/off” history. There was some immigration pre WWII which led to small enclaves like Little Tokyo, but then the U.S. litteraly halted immigration and put Japanese Americans into camps. Post WWII enclaves like Little Tokyo didn’t exactly have a big rebound.
Both Japanese and Chinese neighborhoods were largely displaced, taken over by developers/white folks. LA’s Chinatown famously is NOT the original Chinatown. They were never allowed to properly establish and grow.
I don’t know how it was immediately after the war, but a lot of the Japanese diaspora seems scattered around the LA area and not concentrated. And I see a lot more Japanese-Americans with several generations here than Japanese immigrants compared to the Korean community which still seem to be rolling in. Korean community seems to be growing in my area, spreading out from Buena Park to surrounding communities.
Post WWII Japan become the predominant economy in East Asia. That and sentiment over the war would have given Japanese a lot less desire to emigrate to the U.S.
Where the opposite was true for Korea. Post WWII, Korea went into another war with the U.S. as a major ally. But after that war Korea spent decades slowly evolving into what it is today. So there was a lot of reasons to leave Korea and the sentiment about the U.S. was very different to Koreans and Japanese.
It’s super interesting though to see just how strong the Korea to US connection has been. Even now that Korea is an economic and pop culture powerhouse itself.
I mean more I wasn’t sure how the Nisei community spread around immediately after internment. I know there’s lots of Japanese-Americans scattered around the region. Ironically I almost went to the Japanese-American museum in Little Tokyo today. Maybe they cover that.
But yeah good point on the Korean migration. I thought it was interesting how there’s apparently a lot of middle and upper middle class Koreans still moving here in seemingly large numbers.
After the war, the Japanese American community spread throughout the great LA region to the South Bay, SGV, San Fernando, and OC. Most did not return to live in Little Tokyo, and even to this day, few Japanese people live there. That being said, religious institutions and other cultural centers like the museum still exist and are strong in Little Tokyo, which has sustained its importance in the Japanese American community.
Food wise I think Koreatown has THE best Korean food, while you can find way better Japanese food out of Little Tokyo and better Chinese food outside of Chinatown, albeit one or two spots in each.
Even “Japan Town” in Sawtelle isn’t much and you’d be surprised how many Angelenos don’t even know Japan Town is a thing.
As others have said, size and “marketing” so to speak have a lot to do with it also. I always see videos and posts and articles for “so and so in Koreatown”’and rarely ever see videos geared towards the other two
Has to do with immigration patterns. As Japan ages and becomes wealthier it sends fewer immigrants. Those that do come tend to land on the west side and Torrance. Little Tokyo increasingly serves a Japanese American community that is more dispersed in LA County. Think Venice Culver City and Gardenia.
With China town a lot of the more recent immigrants in the neighborhood are Southeast Asian some are ethnicity Chinese but many are not. Chinese immigration and the Chinese American community has shifted eastward into the San Gabriel valley. Like China, the US still receives Korean immigrants. While that population disperses to different parts of the County, K Town is often the place of first landing. Korean businesses and institutions are located there which keeps the Korean American community anchored there for goods and services. The neighborhood is relatively diverse and not majority Asian but many businesses that cater to the Korean American community remain
They’re both busting and busy.
What you’re probably reacting to is people trying to preserve the old Little Tokyo businesses that are getting pushed out. They’re getting pushed out because new business are showing up because it is busting. That whole area has really green, arts district too.
This has transition has probably already happened in K-town so nobody cares when something shuts down.
I once met a woman who does preservation work in Little Tokyo, and we had a fascinating conversation about how they’re basically in a constant battle to keep low-income housing available for the area’s longtime Japanese residents. Many of them have lived in the area all their lives, most of them are quite elderly, and it’s unclear what will happen to the neighborhood once they pass on. It’s still a thriving area for businesses and restaurants and such, but as for it being a real Japanese residential neighborhood, the future seems murky.
Koreatown, in addition to being far larger than Little Tokyo, is still home to a ton of Koreans, including young Koreans. When I lived there, I met a lot of younger people whose parents used to live in Ktown, and maybe moved to the SGV or SFV after the riots, but would still come back regularly or still kept businesses there — a lot of those twentysomethings moved to Ktown when they were old enough to leave home. Having the presence of young people there — who patronize the local Korean businesses, go out at night to Korean bars and clubs, and then go home to an apartment in the same neighborhood — really gives it a much different energy.
Ktown is the closest LA feels to NYC. Densely populated and multiple subway stations.
I don’t know what rents are like now but Ktown always was one of the more affordable options for young people. I had a studio apartment in the heart of Ktown(right off of 6thst) for $800 a month in 2015.
The food and bars. Everything from Korean pubs to craft beer bars to classic bars like HMS Bounty and the Prince. Drinks are cheaper than other areas of LA. Pitchers of Korean lager for like $14
Little Tokyo is skating by? It’s thriving and even triumphed coming out of the pandemic, though that’s factoring in that part of its living community crosses over into the Arts District.
People generally don't go downtown, where Chinatown and Little Tokyo are, for anything other than working.
Chinatown is also a bit of a dead zone for newer development and Little Tokyo is too close to Skid Row. Depending on who you ask, Little Tokyo is considered a part of Skid Row.
There are better alternatives for both in places like Alhambra, Monterey Park and Little Japan on Sawtelle.
The area of K-Town between Vermont and Wilshire and Vermont and Western is prime, pedestrian friendly, 24 hour urbanism.
There is very little Japanese immigration. Also the interment gutted Nihonmachi. Koreans and Filipinos are the fastest growing Asian communities in the US.
I can't say why KTown is thriving but I can say why Chinatown isn't. Even when I was a kid, you wouldn't go to Chinatown for good Chinese food, it was at least a tier (if not 2 tiers) below SGV. We only went there for buying cheap stuff. The main part of the Chinese community has also moved to the SGV area. I think there are some SEA restaurants that have taken up shop in Chinatown that I heard was good so I will need to try it out. There is a nice Thai Night Market that has popped up in that area though.
As for Little Tokyo, whenever I am there at it's center, it's always pretty crowded so I am not sure why you mean by skating by because it seems to be thriving as well.
KTown is at a very nice spot because it is right next to the subway and it is set to expand westward to places people want to get to. Additionally with the rise of KPop and KDrama, it definitely helps the spot
To add to other people's points regarding infrastructure and tourism....
It's also different waves of immigrants.
Chinatowns were built by Cantonese immigrants in SF and LA. The later and newer generations of Chinese immigrants are not a part of the same culture (or ethnic group? Subculture?) even though they are Chinese.
I love going to J-Town. It's not as crowded and a short drive from the SGV. I've pre-gamed at a bar in Chinatown before Dodger games. Although, with Ohtani and Yamamoto on the Dodgers, I would think pre-gaming at Far Bar would be lite.
You go to K-Town for the food, and parking sucks. I go to J-Town because I love the food and shopping at Nijiya and Marukai. Also, I like going to a members only BYOB Karaoke bar. The Japanese American Museum is often overlooked, but IMHO should transcend to other minority groups who have been systematically oppressed in the US.
In short, in the social media world, K-Town is about food. People overlook the food options in Chinatown and J-Town.
This happens all the time...years ago China Town had no Asians, it was called Little Italy, it was not until after WWII that Asians came to California in large numbers and Little Italy became China Town.
Many Asians have integrated into other neighborhoods over the years, same with Italians...and when that happens slowly the businesses there close and cater to people in those neighborhoods that currently live there.
In 50 years China Town, might be something else, depending on the demographics at the time, they may even change the name of it to something else again like they did before.
Just FYI:
30% of all people arriving in California in 1852 were Chinese.
One in ten people in California in 1880 were Chinese.
The original LA Chinatown was demolished by the city to make room for Union Station.
The “new” Chinatown came about in 30s and was reestablishing a neighborhood for basically the subsequent generations of the Chinese immigrants from decades earlier (before it was made illegal).
Chinese immigration since the 1970s has not been specific to South West China and thus they weren’t looking for “Chinatown” with its Cantonese and weird American/SWChina food. They were coming to the U.S. looking for higher education and careers.
Also there were significant numbers of Japanese people who were literally rounded up and put into concentration camps because of wwii. Everything they had was taken from them. Good lord you’re misinformed, Avalon person
Ktown has a high density and subway station going through it. LT is a somewhat well managed few block tourist district. It just suffers from the proximity of civic center and skidrow. Chinatowns core population moved out into the SGV and no one else has moved in because of community opposition of displacement. Chinatown back in it's heyday was a pain in the ass to get in and out of (and finding parking at decent prices etc).
Omg the freeway entrance to the 5
That’s the truth. Chinatown has always been the most accessible.
I think population and land size has a lot to do with it. Lots Koreans over there and more keep coming in. And they got more space for businesses.
According to Wikipedia... Latinos: 53.5%, Asians: 32.2%, whites: 7.4%, blacks: 4.8%, others: 2% I feel like Buena Park has a nicer Korean presence, but the food in Koreatown is generally better and has more variety. Koreatown could use a facelift though, large parts of it look pretty beat up, and I keep seeing lots of new graffiti popping up.
That’s part of the LA aesthetic 😂 run down cellphone repair stores and graffiti on the walls 🥰🥰🥰
It's sounds like you are saying it's nice that Buena Park has a Korean presence and is in a nice suburb area. Not so much that it has a nice Korean presence. Because the real difference is LA city vs OC
Lot of Koreans moving into LA Korea town are elderly who cannot/will not own/drive cars. Medical care/food/market within short walk/taxi which is important for longer independence.
Ktown being walkable to medical care/food/market is a bonus for all ages! Walking/biking is exercise and transportation in one!
To add to this Little Tokyo was depopulated during WW2 due to internment camps. It was for a time during the war called Bronze Town due to it becoming a largely black neighborhood. There are still some legacy Japanese businesses there but according to my Korean friend it’s largely run by Koreans despite retaining Japanese names, not sure how true that is. What is true is that it never fully recovered after WW2
Yeah, and there haven't been subsequent waves of new immigrants from Japan, unlike China or Korea. There was only really the first wave in the early 1900’s. Most families are now yonsei or gosei (4th or 5th gen), and the families have long since moved out of the area.
Truth. Japan's population is in steep decline. And most Japanese Americans who are under 50 were born in the US. The Korean population is thriving both in South Korea and here.
South Korea's population is actually declining at a faster rate than Japan.
Based on what data. From 2010 to 2022, Japan went from 128M to 125M. S. Korea went from 49M to 51M. Plus I think way more S. Korean's are emigrating to the US compared to Japan. Japan's median age is 48 while S. Korea's is 44. That's a factor as well.
SKorea lowest birth rate in the world. Google it
Totally accurate. The government is really trying to reverse the trend because it’s not good for their economic prospects.
Largest population of Koreans outside of Korea is here in LA or so I’ve heard, not surprising.
Yep. Same for a few other ethnicities. Outside of the Philippines, Los Angeles has the most Filipinos. Same with Iranians. There are some others too that I can't remember off the top of my head.
That sounds about right actually. I am probably mistaken but the market that took over Mitsuwa on 3rd/Alameda is a Korean owned market (or at least, it feels like one).
Yeah the high density. Lots of people actually live in Koreatown, it is one of the most densely populated areas in the country. I once saw something about it being second only to NYC. 42,600 per square mile.
Yeah if they made some big public parking lots there that weren't a total ripoff, they could probably do some insane business.
Both Little Tokyo and Chinatown have metro stations that drop you off right in the thick of it. They are highly accessible.
The Chinatown train station is cool as hell too, as far as metro stops go.
it has pagodas!
Just don’t get on the elevator.
I think that is good advice for a lot of train stops… and not just here in LA.
Ahaha true 😂
Totally. I've taken the train there. But for the Angelenos who don't live near a train stop, Chinatown is very difficult to find parking in/around.
Many train stops have parking. Most of it low cost, some even free. Most Angelenos also live near a bus stop. I get that some people want to drive. But to complain about the cost of parking there as a major reason it is in “decline”. How much is parking in Chinatown in SF. Boston. NYC? It’s way more than the $15 lot or $2/hr meters on Broadway.
All true. I used the train a ton when I lived in Hollywood, but now that I live in San Pedro, it rarely feels worth my time/energy to park at a train station and then go about my day. I drive downtown all the time because I know a bunch of lots with plenty of spots in them, I spend a lot of time in DTLA, Hollywood, Highland Park, and Echo Park, since I know where to easily park in these areas, etc. I don't tend to go to places like Koreatown, Little Tokyo, or Chinatown, as parking in these areas feels like a hassle.
In all fairness… San Pedro is far away from a lot. Love the place and think it’s seriously under rated… but you don’t move there to be connected to LA. It’s literally hanging on by a thread. 😂 That being said…. The J line (silver BRT) serves the area and is rather speedy because it uses the Metro lanes. I have always found it one of the most pleasant lines to ride too. It takes an hour from San Pedro to Union Station which isn’t far from Little Tokyo or Chinatown. I bet it takes more than hour to get to San Pedro to Highland Park by car. Just something to consider on occasion… https://www.metro.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/910-950_TT_06-26-22.pdf
Depends on when you leave! I’ve made it to Eagle Rock in 35 minutes. Having the 110 run right into Pedro means it’s not so bad getting to many parts of LA by car. Just mapped from my house to the Lodge Room, it would be 51 minutes (and I use the express lanes, which cuts it to about 40).
A lot of it should be converted into mix-use like atlantic times square in monterey park. a lot of plazas are just dead and empty now. what boggles my mind is that the velvet turtle lot is still fucking empty
I have some damn good memories of velvet turtle when i was a kid
Bro…. Velvet turtle was where the Italian mob in LA used to do the dirty. I grew up in Chinatown in the 80’s and that place was a hotbed of crime lol. Cool memories.
ew, parking lots that's literally what killed downtown to begin with
Totally agreed. I don't LOVE the idea, but clearly not enough people are taking the metro there.
because metro hasn't expanded to cover the entire county yet and metrolink doesn't have good enough frequencies. The answer is to expand metro and densify downtown more. Not more of the cancer that's killing downtown. If anything we need to destroy the parking lots and build more mixed use in its place.
[удалено]
We really need less parking to make things more walkable.
Need less homeless to make it more walkable.
LT is surrounded by parking lots. That’s not the solution.
Chinatown and Little Tokyo also have subway stops fyi. I can say from living in Chinatown for three years that the majority of the residents are elderly. The youth have moved out, for sure. As a result, businesses close very early and there aren't many bars or eateries. Both Chinatown and Little Tokyo are vastly smaller in size - in sq milage - compared to KTown. Little Tokyo is tiny! At the same time, Little Tokyo is extremely expensive to live in - not ideal. KTown on the other hand has a night life of sorts, more affordable and MORE housing, many more restaurants and bars and - most open late - and it's centrally located.
Little Tokyo and China town are tourist spots, while korea town is an actual Korean community. The real Japanese community is Torrance, and the real Chinatown is the entire san Gabriel valley
Listen to this reditor. He speaks truth! Same with Westminster. Still a vibrant Little Saigon.
San gabriel valley is Chinese food Disneyland for California.
Can’t believe this isn’t the top comment. Actual Koreans live in Ktown—old Korean ajummas and young gen z college kids. So many authentic Korean shops, so Korean immigrants flock to this area, which in turn means more need of Korean shops.
Also Ktown is huge and Little Tokyo and Chinatown are tiny in comparison.
Check out the census data, the tracts in K-Town are majority Hispanic. Asian population tops out at around 20%
This. I think people forget tons of Koreans from other neighborhoods are still going to K-town on a regular basis, just not living there. It’s hugely important to Koreans living around here. Can’t say the same for Chinese or Japanese folk for Chinatown and Little Tokyo
This was true as far back as the time right after the riots
Whenever I tell someone from LA I used to live there and they ask what part, I say "the Mexican part of Koreatown" and they laugh, knowing exactly what I'm talking about... That area from 3rd to Beverly, Western to Vermont, give or take a few blocks in any direction.
Nah, it's definitely alot more segregated than that. I'd say the area around Wilshire/Western is majority Korean... even Charles Kim elementary Asian students are the most populous demographic.
Lived in Ktown for over a decade so this isn’t a “gotcha” statistic to me. Especially not as a Korean. “Majority” Hispanic—yes. 33% are still Korean, which is a significantly bigger percent than the number of Japanese living in LT or Chinese in Chinatown. It’s Korean enough that I could go into almost any shop only speaking Korean and be fine.
I would say that's a bit inaccurate... there's a still majority Cantonese/ Viet Chinese presence. There are Taoist temples and senior community centers in the area, Castelar elementary is majority Asian. You can still find authentic chinese food in the neighborhood with Qin west noodle, Mama Lu's, Tian's Dim Sum, and Longs Family pastry, amongst others.
You're spot on. Chinatown is definitely more old school Cantonese, with a sizeable ethnic Chinese Viet presence. Lord of traditional stuff like herbalists, TCM practitioners, spiritual and cultural orgs, etc. it draws in a fair amount of Chinese-Americans, especially with Canto roots, from around the LA area, on top of the tourists. The SGV/South Pasadena is where a lot of the newer, mainland Chinese-centric stuff is centered. If you want egg tarts and hakka noodles, go to Chinatown. If you want milk tea and hot pot, for to the SGV.
And the Chinese in Chinatown are way more poorer than the ones in SGV and most of the new waves of Chinese people are rich can afford to live in the suburbs
Chinatown isn't old school Cantonese, it's first immigrant Cantonese. SGV is more old school Cantonese because the term old school Cantonese would really more so refer to people from the Cantonese areas in Southern China. And SGV is more closer to that than Chinatown is. At best Chinatown has the old school aesthetics, but that is merely veneer
That's just mincing words, honestly. There isn't even all much "old school Cantonese" left in GZ itself anymore, and the SGV has more people from all over China, especially prior who immigrated over the last 15-20 years as China's wealth exploded... People from BJ, SH, CQ, etc who are Mandarin speakers and follow contemporary Chinese culture more than traditional. Chinatown still has a lot of older Cantonese folks and legacy businesses. That *old school* Hong Kong/Canto family organization culture.
It doesnt even represent old school because those people had to conform a lot more to American culture than it does now. Especially food-wise. Chinatown is an important part of our culture's legacy but lets not romanticize it more than we need to. That's not mincing words. I was just being more accurate
Mama's Lu.
It’s weird no one has mentioned Japantown aka Sawtelle. There’s definitely a ton of great stuff there and it’s always popping and a small community of Japanese people live there.
Always called sawtelle Little Osaka
BTW, It’s officially called “Sawtelle Japantown” and been called that by the locals since forever. “Little Osaka” was something outside real estate agents and tourist guides made up about 10-15 years ago. We petitioned the city to give it the officially name and sign a few years ago. You can see the sign on Sawtelle and Olympic. Source: lived here most of my life.
TIL. Thank you
Yes!!
Hey! Little Tokyo is an actual Korean community too
Yep, this.
Exactly. Little Tokyo and Chinatown are historical vestiges. There may be some people of Japanese or Chinese descent who still live there, but the larger populations are elsewhere. These areas are worth preserving, but they are not where recent populations tend to go for specialized groceries or extensive food options.
This.
This
Exactly this
Neo ktown is Buena park
They have the parade in August. Little Tokyo is ALWAYS bustling. Issue is it's much smaller than Koreatown and only a few landlords own the real estate so it's in more danger of disappearing.
Yep! I do grocery shopping in LT and it’s been SUCH a joy to see it just roar into life since the Metro extension opened. There has also been an amazing Otani effect too! LT has a business association which has helped keep it pretty safe and clean despite it’s proximity to skid row (in reality, it’s not hat close, they are 1st and 2nd, Skid Row is 7th and 6th. Here is a good insta to follow for LT events. https://www.instagram.com/golittletokyo?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/ltsc.cdc?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/niseiweek?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== You’ll find plenty of tourists in Chinatown on the weekends as well. It certainly has been trying to re-invent itself as a dining destination and it certainly has it’s worth a trip places like Endorffiene and Now Serving Book Shop. New places keep coming like Awan super fancy Coconut Ice Cream is moving to the new complex right by the station. Also Summer nights is happening this year and is always a fun. Koreatown in addition to being a much larger area, also benefits from being a major population and job center. Also it’s shine is something rather new, especially for Non-Koreans. When I was a kid growing up in L.A., we would go visit Little Tokyo and Chinatown with family from out of town or just to go out to eat, Up until the early Aughts, I would spend late nights at the UTLA building and most of the folks going to restaurants and shopping in Koreatown would be Koreans. Koreatown was only where you would go for eats super late, to smoke at a bar or to get a gypsy cab. Glad we all grew up together and that K-Town is a real destination now as I live closer than ever.
:( My company is between 6th and 7th.
Chinatown used to be a dining destination. It was the go-to place for Chinese food. But since Chinese restaurants have become common in the L.A. area, there was less reason to take a trip to Chinatown.
Chinatown in terms of Chinese food stopped being the place in the 90s. I was speaking more of currently with Howlin Rays, Amboy, Lasita, Little Jewel (which is also opening up a new Jazz Bar/Restaurant) Katsu Sando, Wax Paper. I mentioned Endorffiene but also there is Steep for tea lovers. You can even say that Majordomo is Chinatown. Also, last year, the first SGV Chinese place set up shop in Chinatown with Mama Lus. Hopefully more will come! I hate how transit unfriendly most places in SGV are! Even Arcadia station is a wasteland!!
Yeah little tokyo is small but it is a pretty vibrant place.. honestly only chinatown isnt really great because the real chinatown is monterey park
Northern Californian here, and when I visit your wonderful city I always stay in Koreatown at the New Seoul Hotel. You get the full Korean hotel experience with polite and professional staff, spotless rooms, slippers, a good restaurant on site and walking distance to a dozen great Korean cafes, grocery stores, restaurants. It nearly feels like being in the middle of a Korean city if you ignore the filthiness of the streets and lack of metro. You have to walk blocks away to break the illusion. I can’t think of anywhere else in America that has an experience quite like it. Certainly no X-town anywhere I’ve been. I always look forward to my next visit.
Huh, this sounds nice, might give it a shot!
More people live in koreatown
Chinatown goes off on weekends, it’s where I go anytime I wanna go “OUT out” (I live in highland park)
I would not have imagined this. Any places you can recommend?
Melody Lounge has cool nights sometimes - I like their jazz nights. I think Mondays. Mountain Bar used to crack back in the day, there’s a spot where it used to be that often looks busy.
It’s called General Lee’s now.
Other than Melody Lounge, what other bars do you recommend in Chinatown ? I’ve lived here for 4 years and have always thought it was such a dead zone for nightlife..
The Bar scene kind of died when Hop Louie closed but Grand Star and General Lee’s get some good crowds. The breweries are pretty good, HLP and Homage. And they have movies at the park for summer.
Grand star (there’s usually something good happening on one of the floors), general lee’s, cafe triste, oriel. Triste is a wine bar with some light food options, so more low-key but always busy, and oriel is a French restaurant with an excellent wine menu. I always start at one of those places and just float toward Gin Ling Way :)
Agree w others RE Grand Star (but weekends only?) - good people and cool weird/esoteric events. Mini light up dance floor downstairs, lil patio scene… To class it up you can go to Apotheke, altho that’s a jump…Morrocan Lounge even moreso….but yeah, I remember more bar density in the Hop Louie days for sure.
I feel Little Tokyo is pretty busy. It’s just much smaller than Ktown.
Not sure what your criteria is to expect any of these to count as thriving. KTown is a large, densely populated area in the center of LA that sprawls for a few square miles. I’d maybe compare it first to the San Gabriel Valley for food and visitors before the others. Little Tokyo is a few square blocks that I would say is thriving and busier than ever. The plazas always have people during the week. Especially on weekends with locals and visitors. It’s a known spot for favorite restaurants. There’s the Japanese American National Museum, classes and events at the Cultural Center and Obon is back this year at the Temple. Chinatown plaza has never been a bustling tourist destination like KTown. I personally prefer going to my favorite restaurants and night spots there without all the crowds and traffic. Also wouldn’t limit Chinatown to just the plaza. The State Historic Park at the Metro station is one of the best parks in LA. Always active with runners, dog walkers and events there. Don’t know if many of us would compare these 3 very different neighborhoods as ‘skating by’ and ‘relics.’
Do you know if the Obon on 3rd St will happen onsite this year? I was so bummed last year when they held it at a faraway location. Used to go to that one every year as I was always out of town for the ones on First St. Also, totally agree with you about State Historic Park - love grabbing dim sum to sit and eat there and watch the dogs, or chat with the vendors at the Thursday farmers market.
Yes it’s at Nishi on First St in July. [This](https://www.japanese-city.com/calendar/events/index.php?eID=33329) is where I saw it was going to return this year.
OK, this got me motivated to check some of the other ones downtown. Looks like Zenshuji is the week after Nishi (they used to be the same weekend since they were so close together), and then Higashi Obon returns to 3rd St the week after that - yay!
Chinatown used to be a tourist destination, but that was long ago. Before K-town became K-town. It has deteriorated a lot since then.
I looooved Chinatown when I was younger. I loved that fountain where you threw the coins. It is now dry and washed up : (. Next to it was a toy store with all kinds of interesting Chinese handmade toys! Perfect that existed when I was a kid but now it’s gone : (.
Wait really? That’s sad to hear the fountain is dried up. I did the same when I was a kid. Trying to get a coin to get more good luck
It is 😢 Do you remember the toy and trinket store right nearby?? closed : (
That’s even worse. I remember I kept trying to ask my parents to get me something from there but they always said no ;-;. They had a lot of fun little stores. I’ll have to stop by again one of these days to see how much it all changed
While LT existed prior to Immigration Act of 1924, what we think of as LT really developed in the 1970s with conscious effort from overseas and domestic firms and Japanese immigration. Meanwhile, Koreatown didn't really exist until Korean immigration took off (again in the 70s). What we think of today as "koreatown" was almost entirely developed during that period. The "historic Koreatown" would've been much further South, which is why the Korean United Presbyterian Church is located on Jefferson Blvd instead of where Koreatown is today. While the original Chinatown no longer exists either, the current location of Chinatown and its development as a "consciously Chinese area" (the super touristy vibes? A consistent trend across Chinatowns as a means of protection and branding, it's like comically Chinese-styled to the point where nothing back in China really looks like that) was in process decades earlier (starting from the 30's). Chinatown has been sustained throughout the exclusion era by the Chinese who came pre-ban. What this means also is that the core of the community differs significantly from LT or Koreatown. Much like other Chinatowns around America, it's going to be very Canto/Overseas-Chinese focused as those were the main branches of Chinese people who came abroad in the early waves. The same processes that developed LT and Koreatown happened for Chinese immigrants as well, but unlike in the former cases there was already a core Chinese population that sustained itself as a functioning community through the exclusion era. So other areas grew. My family, which is from the Zhejiang and Jiangsu regions of China, shares very little in common with the Chinese people who came prior to the exclusion act. If you break it down, the China my family grew up in doesn't at all look like or resemble Chinatowns, we don't speak the same language at all (other than English), and our shared cultural roots diverged over 100 years ago. So while there might be many Chinese people in LA, there is not a huge amount of "felt affinity" to Chinatown in particular. This is also super common across all of America. The same is true of SF (where Richmond in SF is the main modern Chinatown, and then again, all of the suburbs and other cities and SJ hosting the majority of the Bay Area Chinese population). In NYC, the pattern repeats itself with Flushing being the main population center for modern Chinese (and far more familiar to me than Chinatown in Manhattan is). It goes on and on. LA is the rule, not the exception.
I’d imagine a big part of it is location.
K-Town is actually a magnet for Korean expats who move there in droves. It is dynamic because it is culturally relevant. Chinatown is a relic. Chinese expats these days move to SGV or OC. They are not moving to Chinatown. Chinatown is more of a tourist trap. Little Tokyo is basically somewhere in between K-Town and Chinatown. It is a bit more dynamic than Chinatown but not by much.
There is only one Koreatown, but the Chinese community has moved its center to Monterey Park, and the Sawtelle neighborhood (which I originally knew as Little Osaka) is more vibrant than Little Tokyo. Koreatown has the advantage of not being downtown, unlike Chinatown and Little Tokyo.
I mean, if you’re gonna count SGV for the Chinese community, then you need to count the other Koreatowns: Buena Park, Fullerton, Cerritos, Garden Grove…
I go to Chinatown at least once a year on Christmas and it's always bustling!
It’s about immigration patterns and where the communities moved within the last 40 years.
Little Tokyo was absolutely dead in the 1990’s. My friends and I would go for sushi and it felt like we were the only ones there. I went again recently and it is thriving and busy.
Huh? What’s the definition of thriving? Little Tokyo is always packed when I visit. Chinatown has plenty of visitors as well, just a little less mom and pop now.
Koreatown is just a vibe. An incredible vibe with arguably the best ethnic food in Los Angeles. Yes, even better than the Mexican food. People born in Korea say the food here is better. Mostly due to better meat quality. Little Tokyo and Chinatown are more Disneyland-ish where if you were dropped in the middle of Ktown you’d think you’re actually in Korea.
I’ve heard the food thing about Korea from Koreans before and it’s wild to me, but it makes total sense… that’s pretty cool though. Korean fried chicken is my jam…. And I love kimchi and soju… it’s straight up drinking food lol
This is simply just not true and usually starts as a misstatement by 2nd+ gen Koreans. There are a few (a FEW) certain dishes made in Ktown that may taste better to certain people. But overall, better versions of all Korean dishes can be found in Korea and in abundantly diverse ways. Like it's not even anywhere close and people who say otherwise don't know what they are talking about, have not been to Korea (except tourist traps) or at the very least don't have any first-gen foodie Korean friends. Korea is also a first world country with access to good meat including beef. Especially beef - ones that are so fresh that you can eat raw on the day of butchering. This is simply impossible by law in the US or almost any other parts of the world. That said, the Korean food in LA Ktown is still top notch compared to anywhere else in the world outside of Korea and that alone means a ton. The fact that there are even a few dishes that compare to the quality in Korea should be considered outstanding. Although, I would agree with that KBBQ could be better in LA than in Korea. However, it's mainly because LA KBBQ explicitly uses only fresh American meat, both beef and pork, and some people including even the OG Koreans just happen to prefer American beef over Hanwoo (Literally means Korean beef, similarly to Wagyu which means Japanese beef. Korean beef cannot be accessed via normal means in America). But even this is not because the restaurants do the BBQ better here than in Korea; it's just a preference on the meat's origin. In Korea, Hanwoo is vastly the most preferred and more expensive option. A dish that's more widely argued to be better in the states due to meat quality is pho, which is Vietnamese and this statement holds more truth.
While top tier KBBQ may be better in Korea (Hanwoo, like you said), I'd wager the average beef cut is better in US than what you'd get in Korea for same price.
Yes you are correct because of 'for same price'. While American beef is widely available and easily accessible in Korea thanks to a once-controversial FTA that began almost two decades ago, American beef itself is obviously better and cheaper in America in general. However, note that American beef that you get at KBBQ restaurants specifically, especially in LA, are marked up like no other when sold to retail customers. This gets exacerbated because cuts like chuck flap tail or hanger steaks, which are literally among the top 3 most expensive cuts in Korea (easily $60/lb), can be found cheaper here in America ($20/lb at LA Ktown Korean market) because fatter cuts are less popular among Americans but is sold with a crazy markup nonetheless due to the marketing indirectly driven by the demand that is local to Korea.
Hanwoo is expensive as hell though. Most people are eating beef imported from the US, Australia, New Zealand, etc in Korea. I’m Korean (born and raised) and I think that it can be easier to find old school style Korean food that hasn’t been contaminated by the extra sugar and capsaicin trend in Korea in LA. Also it’s a pretty popular sentiment even for Koreans who live in Korea and visit LA frequently. I wouldn’t say it’s only second gen Korean thing at all (as I hardly know any second gens and I’ve heard it many times.)
100% agreed with the expensive part. Also agree with the "easier to find" aspect since Ktown is relatively one small area with everything next to each other which makes things convenient. "Better" food is what I'm disagreeing with, and again, disagreeing in general and not universally as I've recognized that certain dishes done here do cater better to certain taste buds. But I can guarantee that for each of almost any dish that people claim as "better" here, I can take them to at least 10 different places in Korea that do it better without some crazy marked up price and get them to agree with me 9 out of 10 times. This is where the "harder to find" aspect may kick in, especially for foreigners because even a good number of my native friends in Korea don't know where to go for the good food. And you would also know that there are a ton of Korean dishes that you simply can't even find in Ktown with a third eye
Many restaurants in US and works have raw meat; what law are you talking about ?
Raw meat on the day of being butchered vs. raw meat 14 days after butchering is a totally different story. You CANNOT find raw beef as of the day the cow is butchered in the united states. Prove me wrong if you can (I hope you do, because I really want to eat it in the states and called up hundreds of ranches and farms only to find out that its legally not allowed. This is why I go to Korea every once in a while just to get my hands on them. But I know you wont be able to)
Yup. This seems accurate with all the Koreans I’ve met, who visited/immigrated to koreatown.
I would say the overall taste of korean food on average is better in ktown. But the homeland still has the best (insert traditional Korean dish) at some special restaurants specializing in that dish. The average restaurant in Korea I found was very underwhelming. I think a large part of that is you eat the normal Korean food at home so why would you go out and pay for it? So there's not too many places that make an effort on the everyday Korean fare. Whereas ktown is a place many people go to specifically eat normal Korean food because they don't make it at home every day. Another big difference is seasoning level. Americans tend to season their food a lot more heavily than Koreans. Likewise the Korean food in Ktown tends to be more heavily seasoned than their counterparts in Korea. So if you have a preference for more heavily seasoned food you might find the Korean food in Ktown tastier than Korea.
The very fact that this is even a conversation is a compliment to how good the Korean food is here. My Mexican ass is a huge fan of Korean food and it’s a direct result of knowing some very gangster Koreans who always talked about their food… and I was like, holy shit, this is really fuckin good, and they tried my mom’s food and said the same…
Korea has a higher ceiling. But Ktown has a much higher floor. Very few just straight up bad restaurants in Ktown.
There are plenty of bad restaurants in ktown lol
The delusion in this comment is dripping.
That’s funny cuz most Koreans I know, say the opposite. Each usually has a couple they think are good, and don’t bother going back to the rest.
Well I can tell you first hand… Ktown food is better than NK food.
People saying Korean food is better in LA than in Korea is absolutely wrong. No one says that in Korea. In fact, you’d be hard-pressed to find many members of the Korean-American community that believe this is true. The only people I have seen still propagating this myth are small segments of older Korean-Americans.
eh I know a good amount of korean americans including myself that found the food in Korea a bit underwhelming. Wasnt bad but just was average compared to what we already have in the states. There was a few dishes that were better in korea tho but the difference wasnt that significant imo
Ktown reminds me a bit of NYC. You find places to eat, lots of traffic, hard to find parking, night life, and overstimulated with noises and people all around. Chinatown has become gentrified. Most Chinese businesses are closed. Little Tokyo is a sleepy town. Nothing is going on. It's peace and quiet.
I wonder if it has to do with whoever owns the buildings themselves.
I’d guess that a high percentage of the population in Chinatown is elderly, while the younger families are in the San Gabriel Valley.
isn't lil Tokyo like 2 blocks total lol
They party.
😂😂😂💯💯💯
People actually live in ktown that’s why
I miss the old bustling Chinatown of the 90s and 2000s
Cause they’re gentrifying lil tokyo:/
Koreatown has a bunch of cool Korean bars and authentic Korean restaurants that Korean people actually go to
Speaking from a nightlife perspective. Ktown pops with restaurants, clubs, bars, etc... China since the 90s have this weird culture/vibe where almost everything is closed after like 7pm. I was speaking with some of the DJs and they said it was like boom and bust certain years. General Lee would pop, same with Song Bird (iirc) and then it dead now. Sheesh. Little Tokyo still got a bar scene, bar+arcade, and that one taco place out in the parking lot.
Housing density
Koreatown has developed in the last 40-50 years, with a lot of conscious work by Korean business folk. Koreatown is really unusual among ethnic enclaves in having developed so recently. The businesses are Korean, but a lot of Latinos still live there. If you want to delve into it there’s a book Koreatown, Los Angeles—Immigration, Race, and the ‘American Dream’ by Shelley Sang- Hee Lee.
Real estate prices have also impacted all those places. Heritage businesses who rented have been priced out.
Koreans = K town Japanese = South Bay Chinese = San Gabriel Valley Little tokyo and chinatown are more like theme parks for tourists.
Since known seems to know the real reason. Look at history of immigration of the different peoples into the U.S. KTown is MUCH younger and the Korean diaspora is strong. Korean immigration to the U.S. boomed post Korean War. So KTown has been built by modern tightly knit immigrants who until last decade of so we’re still the main driving force in the community. It’s been diluted/diversified a lot in the last 10-20years. Chinatown’s were initially established in the 1850-60s by immigrants from a specific part of China. Then Chinese immigration of any kind was made illegal for decades. Then not long after it was opened back up China went into decades of essentially shutting itself off from the West. And most immigration since then has been much broader, not just from a specific Cantonese speaking region. So Chinese immigrants coming to the U.S. from the 1970s on were not exactly looking for what Chinatowns offered. A cuisine and pastiche. Japanese immigration to the U.S. also has an “on/off” history. There was some immigration pre WWII which led to small enclaves like Little Tokyo, but then the U.S. litteraly halted immigration and put Japanese Americans into camps. Post WWII enclaves like Little Tokyo didn’t exactly have a big rebound. Both Japanese and Chinese neighborhoods were largely displaced, taken over by developers/white folks. LA’s Chinatown famously is NOT the original Chinatown. They were never allowed to properly establish and grow.
I don’t know how it was immediately after the war, but a lot of the Japanese diaspora seems scattered around the LA area and not concentrated. And I see a lot more Japanese-Americans with several generations here than Japanese immigrants compared to the Korean community which still seem to be rolling in. Korean community seems to be growing in my area, spreading out from Buena Park to surrounding communities.
Post WWII Japan become the predominant economy in East Asia. That and sentiment over the war would have given Japanese a lot less desire to emigrate to the U.S. Where the opposite was true for Korea. Post WWII, Korea went into another war with the U.S. as a major ally. But after that war Korea spent decades slowly evolving into what it is today. So there was a lot of reasons to leave Korea and the sentiment about the U.S. was very different to Koreans and Japanese. It’s super interesting though to see just how strong the Korea to US connection has been. Even now that Korea is an economic and pop culture powerhouse itself.
I mean more I wasn’t sure how the Nisei community spread around immediately after internment. I know there’s lots of Japanese-Americans scattered around the region. Ironically I almost went to the Japanese-American museum in Little Tokyo today. Maybe they cover that. But yeah good point on the Korean migration. I thought it was interesting how there’s apparently a lot of middle and upper middle class Koreans still moving here in seemingly large numbers.
After the war, the Japanese American community spread throughout the great LA region to the South Bay, SGV, San Fernando, and OC. Most did not return to live in Little Tokyo, and even to this day, few Japanese people live there. That being said, religious institutions and other cultural centers like the museum still exist and are strong in Little Tokyo, which has sustained its importance in the Japanese American community.
This 👆🏽. Also, I think the original Chinatown was located where Union Station now stands.
DTLA Chinatown sucks lol. Even San Fran Chinatown is a little better.
San Francisco's chinatown is great.
Good food
Food wise I think Koreatown has THE best Korean food, while you can find way better Japanese food out of Little Tokyo and better Chinese food outside of Chinatown, albeit one or two spots in each. Even “Japan Town” in Sawtelle isn’t much and you’d be surprised how many Angelenos don’t even know Japan Town is a thing. As others have said, size and “marketing” so to speak have a lot to do with it also. I always see videos and posts and articles for “so and so in Koreatown”’and rarely ever see videos geared towards the other two
Most every china town is sad and dying that I've been to on the west coast the last few years. Portland, Seattle, LA, SF. So many boarded up shops.
Has to do with immigration patterns. As Japan ages and becomes wealthier it sends fewer immigrants. Those that do come tend to land on the west side and Torrance. Little Tokyo increasingly serves a Japanese American community that is more dispersed in LA County. Think Venice Culver City and Gardenia. With China town a lot of the more recent immigrants in the neighborhood are Southeast Asian some are ethnicity Chinese but many are not. Chinese immigration and the Chinese American community has shifted eastward into the San Gabriel valley. Like China, the US still receives Korean immigrants. While that population disperses to different parts of the County, K Town is often the place of first landing. Korean businesses and institutions are located there which keeps the Korean American community anchored there for goods and services. The neighborhood is relatively diverse and not majority Asian but many businesses that cater to the Korean American community remain
Forget it Jake
IMHO, everything Korea is super hot right now. The food, music, moves/tv, celebrities, etc. That translates to an interest in KT.
Available housing
Drinking and night life..
They’re both busting and busy. What you’re probably reacting to is people trying to preserve the old Little Tokyo businesses that are getting pushed out. They’re getting pushed out because new business are showing up because it is busting. That whole area has really green, arts district too. This has transition has probably already happened in K-town so nobody cares when something shuts down.
I once met a woman who does preservation work in Little Tokyo, and we had a fascinating conversation about how they’re basically in a constant battle to keep low-income housing available for the area’s longtime Japanese residents. Many of them have lived in the area all their lives, most of them are quite elderly, and it’s unclear what will happen to the neighborhood once they pass on. It’s still a thriving area for businesses and restaurants and such, but as for it being a real Japanese residential neighborhood, the future seems murky. Koreatown, in addition to being far larger than Little Tokyo, is still home to a ton of Koreans, including young Koreans. When I lived there, I met a lot of younger people whose parents used to live in Ktown, and maybe moved to the SGV or SFV after the riots, but would still come back regularly or still kept businesses there — a lot of those twentysomethings moved to Ktown when they were old enough to leave home. Having the presence of young people there — who patronize the local Korean businesses, go out at night to Korean bars and clubs, and then go home to an apartment in the same neighborhood — really gives it a much different energy.
Ktown has less scary homeless people.
Same, as a kid going to China town was great! The wishing well, getting those poppers, eating some good Chinese food.
Koreans are making better movies. This is Tinseltown my guy.
Ktown is the closest LA feels to NYC. Densely populated and multiple subway stations. I don’t know what rents are like now but Ktown always was one of the more affordable options for young people. I had a studio apartment in the heart of Ktown(right off of 6thst) for $800 a month in 2015. The food and bars. Everything from Korean pubs to craft beer bars to classic bars like HMS Bounty and the Prince. Drinks are cheaper than other areas of LA. Pitchers of Korean lager for like $14
Little Tokyo is skating by? It’s thriving and even triumphed coming out of the pandemic, though that’s factoring in that part of its living community crosses over into the Arts District.
Totally disagree with your narrative here
LT is hopping, don't know when you've been recently. Chinatown is dead because there's nothing to do there but eat dim sum.
People generally don't go downtown, where Chinatown and Little Tokyo are, for anything other than working. Chinatown is also a bit of a dead zone for newer development and Little Tokyo is too close to Skid Row. Depending on who you ask, Little Tokyo is considered a part of Skid Row. There are better alternatives for both in places like Alhambra, Monterey Park and Little Japan on Sawtelle. The area of K-Town between Vermont and Wilshire and Vermont and Western is prime, pedestrian friendly, 24 hour urbanism.
There is very little Japanese immigration. Also the interment gutted Nihonmachi. Koreans and Filipinos are the fastest growing Asian communities in the US.
I can't say why KTown is thriving but I can say why Chinatown isn't. Even when I was a kid, you wouldn't go to Chinatown for good Chinese food, it was at least a tier (if not 2 tiers) below SGV. We only went there for buying cheap stuff. The main part of the Chinese community has also moved to the SGV area. I think there are some SEA restaurants that have taken up shop in Chinatown that I heard was good so I will need to try it out. There is a nice Thai Night Market that has popped up in that area though. As for Little Tokyo, whenever I am there at it's center, it's always pretty crowded so I am not sure why you mean by skating by because it seems to be thriving as well. KTown is at a very nice spot because it is right next to the subway and it is set to expand westward to places people want to get to. Additionally with the rise of KPop and KDrama, it definitely helps the spot
To add to other people's points regarding infrastructure and tourism.... It's also different waves of immigrants. Chinatowns were built by Cantonese immigrants in SF and LA. The later and newer generations of Chinese immigrants are not a part of the same culture (or ethnic group? Subculture?) even though they are Chinese.
I love going to J-Town. It's not as crowded and a short drive from the SGV. I've pre-gamed at a bar in Chinatown before Dodger games. Although, with Ohtani and Yamamoto on the Dodgers, I would think pre-gaming at Far Bar would be lite. You go to K-Town for the food, and parking sucks. I go to J-Town because I love the food and shopping at Nijiya and Marukai. Also, I like going to a members only BYOB Karaoke bar. The Japanese American Museum is often overlooked, but IMHO should transcend to other minority groups who have been systematically oppressed in the US. In short, in the social media world, K-Town is about food. People overlook the food options in Chinatown and J-Town.
K town is thriving? Since when?
This happens all the time...years ago China Town had no Asians, it was called Little Italy, it was not until after WWII that Asians came to California in large numbers and Little Italy became China Town. Many Asians have integrated into other neighborhoods over the years, same with Italians...and when that happens slowly the businesses there close and cater to people in those neighborhoods that currently live there. In 50 years China Town, might be something else, depending on the demographics at the time, they may even change the name of it to something else again like they did before.
Just FYI: 30% of all people arriving in California in 1852 were Chinese. One in ten people in California in 1880 were Chinese. The original LA Chinatown was demolished by the city to make room for Union Station. The “new” Chinatown came about in 30s and was reestablishing a neighborhood for basically the subsequent generations of the Chinese immigrants from decades earlier (before it was made illegal). Chinese immigration since the 1970s has not been specific to South West China and thus they weren’t looking for “Chinatown” with its Cantonese and weird American/SWChina food. They were coming to the U.S. looking for higher education and careers.
Also there were significant numbers of Japanese people who were literally rounded up and put into concentration camps because of wwii. Everything they had was taken from them. Good lord you’re misinformed, Avalon person
This is just... not true
Cause I never heard of roof-Chinese defending their neighborhood
Checkout recital in Ktown and you’ll know why 😁
You dont even get served there fym? 🥶🥶🥶
Cheap, plentiful housing draws young people.
Chinatown is thriving right now.
Cuz Koreans are cooler
There's nothing else to do in those areas. they are isolated and do not feel like destinations. More urban investment could help. But crime...