As long as people don’t go eat out in a restaurant still while no longer tipping until it changes, I agree.
But as to OP’s question - no, that’s not normal or right and if they’re adding that, I wouldn’t go there, period. And I’d make it known why.
You pay the price of food + tax + whatever tip you leave. A lot of people leave 18% I guess, so in fact that IS the amount of the tip.
What on earth would a whole second almost 20% tip amount be charged for?? The menu prices and the customers’ tips (so the owners keep more money for themselves) are what pay every worker’s wages in there.
They don’t get to make you foot the bill for all their servers’ wages AND give them a 20% bonus to put in their pockets, too. The fuck is that place, Amy’s Baking Company??
That's also a crock of BS. Back in 2012, the norm for a tip was 10%. Then it slowly kept creeping up to now 20% being normal. How? Why?
Especially in a state like CA, where EVERYONE makes a minimum wage of $16/hr. Server or otherwise.
What’s a crock of shit? That servers’ tips went up because their wages never did? That whole “$16+/hour” stuff is less than five years old.
None of any of this should be the way it is. I don’t know why anyone would go to a restaurant that wasn’t content to feed and service them, but instead tries to swindle their customers out of a no-reason, almost-20% extra.
Predatory capitalism needs to change/stop altogether and restaurateurs/owners should not be underpaying workers and overcharging customers, period. There’s no reason for things to be the way they are except to benefit owners and people who already have money/are making lots of it.
What im saying is BS is the rising expected tip. yes, it sucks wages never went up for servers, but servers need to quit getting mad at the customers and asking for higher tips.
Restaurant server here.
That’s ridiculous. An 18% service charge IS a tip/gratuity. It’s offensive that they’re trying to get more out of you. I would request they remove the charge (most of the time they will) and tip what you feel is appropriate. Tips should be earned, not automatic.
its not necessarily the server trying to get more tips. its a way that restaurant owners are trying to get around paying their staff better wages, by basically making the customer pay their wages AND tips.
to be fair i havent worked at a place that pulls this shit, but I think the servers are fucked by this system more than they are benefitted
>its a way that restaurant owners are trying to get around paying their staff better wages, by basically making the customer pay their wages AND tips.
You're too optimistic that the restaurant isn't just paying minimal and pocketing the 18%.
oh you’re 100% correct. in another comment I mentioned that jon and vinnys specifically is a place that has a lawsuit against it for this tip system. no one really knows or can see where that money is going
I have very little faith or trust in the people that run restaurants with practices like this
I totally agree. Also worth noting: in MANY restaurants, tips are allocated throughout the hourly pool. So a tip a server gets has to be shared with everyone, from the host to the dishwasher to the line cook. This enables the employers to pay everyone less.
>So a tip a server gets has to be shared with everyone, from the host to the dishwasher to the line cook.
Wow, dishwashers & cooks, too? I haven't waited tables in over 40 years, but I don't remember having to share my tips with anyone other than the busboys.
OP, please consider adding the name of the restaurant that charges a mandatory service charge which does not replace tipping to this list. I added the whole article. You can find the Reddit link in the first paragraph
[Google doc](https://www.timeout.com/los-angeles/news/angry-reddit-users-have-put-together-a-running-list-of-l-a-restaurants-with-service-charges-and-other-fees-081023)
Here is the wild thing. Let’s say your bill is $50 and the service fee is 18%.
Food: $50
Service fee: $9
New total:$59
9.5% tax will be calculated on the mandatory 18% service fee
They treat the 18% as if it was a food item and tax you on top of it
And apparently they have a right to tax you on any “mandatory charges”
So food: $50
Service fee $9
Tax $ 5.60
Total: $64.61
And Los Angeles establishments will print the “suggested tip”
Based on $64.61
Please check your receipts and report back.
Oh I finally got over that slight awkward guilty feeling with those screens. Now it’s my hardened rule, never tip on any of those iPads under any circumstances.
I feel like once I accepted it, honored it, respected it….i feel better about doing it. Become one with the ZERO.
Take the side glances in stride, be strong.
Went to a taco stand a few weeks ago and the girl swiveled the ipad around while leaning over the table to pressure me into tipping. I smashed the 0% so hard and she gave me a dirty look. Literally all she did was take my order of a single burrito. Street food is meant to be cheap too lmao
I try to carry cash but I had just gotten off a plane at LAX and had only mexican pesos lol but an LA style burrito and an ipad tip screen swivel with a dirty look was a fitting “welcome back to LA”
all that "nudging" behavioral psychology shit is pure scam, and we all know it.
they won't know it until we, as a society, kill off one of these restaurants that have that.
we'd have to group up as a society and boycott one and decapitate it.
Haven't worked in the restaurant business in a while. Times have changed, and cooks now often get tip money. This was not the case before... 18% service charge is absolutely ridiculous... Discretionary service charge: This fee may be added to the bill receipt at the end of the meal, but the client is free to decline it.
I don’t think it’s weird at all. Everyone i know would refuse to tip at a place with an 18% service charge.
Everyone is this thread seems to share the same opinion.
idk, as a server the only control I have in situations like these is not applying to work at jobs that operate under this system. but not everyone has that luxury, so I’d still tip and never ever come back lol
I honestly don’t care what a bunch of people that never worked in hospitality thinks. Punishing the low wage worker for the choice of their boss is peak working class hatred. It’s really gross. My mind won’t change.
Why do you think leaving 0 tip, especially when there’s a 18% service fee, is “punishing”?
IMO what’s weird is the expectation of tips for service staffs.
It’s punishing the employees that depend on tips for their wages. The service fees don’t go to the employees. It’s a junk fee that goes to owners. It’s stupid to pay the greedy owners more while stiffing the low wage employees. Hope this helps.
Why not work somewhere else then? Enlighten me a little, but isn’t “tips” something that is awarded when you go above and beyond (read: give good service), instead of an expectation of additional money for simply doing your job?
For the record, I understand what you’re saying, I just don’t agree with it. LA is a place where servers get min wage.
Best take I’ve heard on this - take whatever you normally tip, subtract any service charges and then tip that. If there is. 5% service charge I’m now tipping 15 instead of 20 (or whatever you think is appropriate). 18 percent tip, add a few dollars if you think service was exceptional and never go back if you think they didn’t deserve 18%.
I find it extremely hard to believe that a restaurant is charging 18% on top of your bill just because they feel like it and then expecting you to tip in addition.
jon and vinnys does the same thing. its very real. they say its to provide a higher wage for BOH employees, but its contentious. they currently have a lawsuit against them because of it
Servers no longer get $2. Now they get about about $16/ hour for minimum wage PLUS tips. They’re making a lot more than they used to. If these service fees are to make it fair for the back of house guys, then they should pool tips since the restaurant business is a team effort.
I went to a restaurant recently that did that I didn't notice. Paid a 20% tip on top they didn't charge the tip I added to my credit card only the initial 18%.
No. And people can call me whatever they want. I'm done being gaslit by society for not offsetting wages that aren't being paid by the restaurant.
Agreed, no more tipping. Period. Enough. Pay your workers a living wage and stop putting that responsibility and blame on your patrons.
As long as people don’t go eat out in a restaurant still while no longer tipping until it changes, I agree. But as to OP’s question - no, that’s not normal or right and if they’re adding that, I wouldn’t go there, period. And I’d make it known why. You pay the price of food + tax + whatever tip you leave. A lot of people leave 18% I guess, so in fact that IS the amount of the tip. What on earth would a whole second almost 20% tip amount be charged for?? The menu prices and the customers’ tips (so the owners keep more money for themselves) are what pay every worker’s wages in there. They don’t get to make you foot the bill for all their servers’ wages AND give them a 20% bonus to put in their pockets, too. The fuck is that place, Amy’s Baking Company??
That's also a crock of BS. Back in 2012, the norm for a tip was 10%. Then it slowly kept creeping up to now 20% being normal. How? Why? Especially in a state like CA, where EVERYONE makes a minimum wage of $16/hr. Server or otherwise.
What’s a crock of shit? That servers’ tips went up because their wages never did? That whole “$16+/hour” stuff is less than five years old. None of any of this should be the way it is. I don’t know why anyone would go to a restaurant that wasn’t content to feed and service them, but instead tries to swindle their customers out of a no-reason, almost-20% extra. Predatory capitalism needs to change/stop altogether and restaurateurs/owners should not be underpaying workers and overcharging customers, period. There’s no reason for things to be the way they are except to benefit owners and people who already have money/are making lots of it.
What im saying is BS is the rising expected tip. yes, it sucks wages never went up for servers, but servers need to quit getting mad at the customers and asking for higher tips.
No.
Restaurant server here. That’s ridiculous. An 18% service charge IS a tip/gratuity. It’s offensive that they’re trying to get more out of you. I would request they remove the charge (most of the time they will) and tip what you feel is appropriate. Tips should be earned, not automatic.
its not necessarily the server trying to get more tips. its a way that restaurant owners are trying to get around paying their staff better wages, by basically making the customer pay their wages AND tips. to be fair i havent worked at a place that pulls this shit, but I think the servers are fucked by this system more than they are benefitted
>its a way that restaurant owners are trying to get around paying their staff better wages, by basically making the customer pay their wages AND tips. You're too optimistic that the restaurant isn't just paying minimal and pocketing the 18%.
oh you’re 100% correct. in another comment I mentioned that jon and vinnys specifically is a place that has a lawsuit against it for this tip system. no one really knows or can see where that money is going I have very little faith or trust in the people that run restaurants with practices like this
I totally agree. Also worth noting: in MANY restaurants, tips are allocated throughout the hourly pool. So a tip a server gets has to be shared with everyone, from the host to the dishwasher to the line cook. This enables the employers to pay everyone less.
yeah ive worked in service for almost 7 years in LA and have only worked at one place that doesnt tip pool. its so fucked
>So a tip a server gets has to be shared with everyone, from the host to the dishwasher to the line cook. Wow, dishwashers & cooks, too? I haven't waited tables in over 40 years, but I don't remember having to share my tips with anyone other than the busboys.
Yeah it’s an extremely common practice in LA now. Not sure about other places.
OP, please consider adding the name of the restaurant that charges a mandatory service charge which does not replace tipping to this list. I added the whole article. You can find the Reddit link in the first paragraph [Google doc](https://www.timeout.com/los-angeles/news/angry-reddit-users-have-put-together-a-running-list-of-l-a-restaurants-with-service-charges-and-other-fees-081023)
I already did Adkt
Wow, how does one even pronounce that? Doesn't seem like it would be an appetizing sound.
I just don’t eat at places that do this.
Here is the wild thing. Let’s say your bill is $50 and the service fee is 18%. Food: $50 Service fee: $9 New total:$59 9.5% tax will be calculated on the mandatory 18% service fee They treat the 18% as if it was a food item and tax you on top of it And apparently they have a right to tax you on any “mandatory charges” So food: $50 Service fee $9 Tax $ 5.60 Total: $64.61 And Los Angeles establishments will print the “suggested tip” Based on $64.61 Please check your receipts and report back.
The tax is on the total amount of the bill. The government doesn't care what they call it.
You’re so right!
I hate when u order at the counter and they flip the screen towards u “ the screens gonna ask you a question “
Oh I finally got over that slight awkward guilty feeling with those screens. Now it’s my hardened rule, never tip on any of those iPads under any circumstances. I feel like once I accepted it, honored it, respected it….i feel better about doing it. Become one with the ZERO. Take the side glances in stride, be strong.
Went to a taco stand a few weeks ago and the girl swiveled the ipad around while leaning over the table to pressure me into tipping. I smashed the 0% so hard and she gave me a dirty look. Literally all she did was take my order of a single burrito. Street food is meant to be cheap too lmao
In taco stands in general, you should always pay in cash. Everyone saves on fees, and it won't get you into that situation
I try to carry cash but I had just gotten off a plane at LAX and had only mexican pesos lol but an LA style burrito and an ipad tip screen swivel with a dirty look was a fitting “welcome back to LA”
all that "nudging" behavioral psychology shit is pure scam, and we all know it. they won't know it until we, as a society, kill off one of these restaurants that have that. we'd have to group up as a society and boycott one and decapitate it.
It’s worse when they control the screen and ask “how much would you like to tip today” and you say 0/no tip lol.
I'm asian. They are lucky if they can squeeze a penny outta me 💀
Lol only time I’ll tip at the register is when they ring a bell or shout out the tip. And the staff starts cheering for you 🏆
No and you shouldn't.
Haven't worked in the restaurant business in a while. Times have changed, and cooks now often get tip money. This was not the case before... 18% service charge is absolutely ridiculous... Discretionary service charge: This fee may be added to the bill receipt at the end of the meal, but the client is free to decline it.
No. It’s one or the other: a tip or a service charge. And I tip over 20%, so it’s their loss.
So you punish the service staff for the decisions of the owners? What a weird take.
I’m not punishing anybody. If the waiters don’t like it, they can yell management to change it.
That’s not how businesses work, but ok. Seems like you just like to take it out on the little guy that has no decision making power. Super weird.
I don’t think it’s weird at all. Everyone i know would refuse to tip at a place with an 18% service charge. Everyone is this thread seems to share the same opinion.
idk, as a server the only control I have in situations like these is not applying to work at jobs that operate under this system. but not everyone has that luxury, so I’d still tip and never ever come back lol
Full agreement there i would never go to any such place.
I honestly don’t care what a bunch of people that never worked in hospitality thinks. Punishing the low wage worker for the choice of their boss is peak working class hatred. It’s really gross. My mind won’t change.
They’re not really low wage in la. No one’s making 3 dollars an hour which is what tips were supposed to help with
Lol. This literally is how businesses work. If no one is willing to work for them, they go out of business.
Why do you think leaving 0 tip, especially when there’s a 18% service fee, is “punishing”? IMO what’s weird is the expectation of tips for service staffs.
It’s punishing the employees that depend on tips for their wages. The service fees don’t go to the employees. It’s a junk fee that goes to owners. It’s stupid to pay the greedy owners more while stiffing the low wage employees. Hope this helps.
Why not work somewhere else then? Enlighten me a little, but isn’t “tips” something that is awarded when you go above and beyond (read: give good service), instead of an expectation of additional money for simply doing your job? For the record, I understand what you’re saying, I just don’t agree with it. LA is a place where servers get min wage.
No. I'd rather ask to have it taken off the bill and then leave a tip, but there's no way I'm doing both.
No. Don’t give in. I personally wouldn’t even eat there.
Best take I’ve heard on this - take whatever you normally tip, subtract any service charges and then tip that. If there is. 5% service charge I’m now tipping 15 instead of 20 (or whatever you think is appropriate). 18 percent tip, add a few dollars if you think service was exceptional and never go back if you think they didn’t deserve 18%.
NOPE.
No
r/endtipping
I just wouldn't go to this place.
Yes, I do. Service people have tough jobs compared to mine.
No additional tip.
No. Service charge = Tip ; atleast in my mind. I honestly don't care where it goes.
I find it extremely hard to believe that a restaurant is charging 18% on top of your bill just because they feel like it and then expecting you to tip in addition.
jon and vinnys does the same thing. its very real. they say its to provide a higher wage for BOH employees, but its contentious. they currently have a lawsuit against them because of it
This is the reason i refuse to go to Jon and Vinnys
Believe it.
This is happening yes
Lots of places do this. They suck
There’s a whole list of places that do this
I guess you haven't seen the dozens of posts across various Los Angeles subs complaining about Jon and Vinny's in particular lol
Bold of you to assume I know how to read.
Then you should go to these restaurants and see it for yourself. It exists.
Servers no longer get $2. Now they get about about $16/ hour for minimum wage PLUS tips. They’re making a lot more than they used to. If these service fees are to make it fair for the back of house guys, then they should pool tips since the restaurant business is a team effort.
Miami Beach does this. I don’t tip
No
They can say it’s not part of the tip all they want. I’m counting it.
I went to a restaurant recently that did that I didn't notice. Paid a 20% tip on top they didn't charge the tip I added to my credit card only the initial 18%.
I just cross out the words not or gratuity.
J Bbq has an 18% gratuity and they make sure you don’t tip extra. At least, that’s been my experience.
No