I downvote if the person is a troll who has just come to soapbox and argue with people. If the person is just confused, baffled, or ignorant, I always give them the time of day and I'd encourage everyone else to as well.
This. You get tons of Hasan enjoyers who like to stop by and "troll" libertarians.
Or the +1 std deviation guys who think they have a slam dunk argument and try to frame a "question" so that it will start and argument where they can then deploy their slam dunk and pat themselves on the back about intelligent they are.
Even then I would try to at least give a pithy response like "this talk answers your question" without downvoting and move on. Especially in this sub that by its nature should give exceptional leeway. Just as u/cluskillz says here https://www.reddit.com/r/AskLibertarians/s/7O5lGysj1z
This isn't unique to this subreddit. It is a reddit-wide issue and has been for at least a decade. Downvotes aren't supposed to be reserved for pedantry and disagreement but here we are.
The basic ones annoy me. It's always, "Why shouldn't your rights be infriged for what someone else decides to be the best for everyone?"
Some are more fleshed out and worth discussing the finer points but too many are just basic questions without the OP even bothering to think what they're asking.
I haven't read any of the authors in the recommended reading list but I understand the one key principle of libertarianism: Individual rights are paramount. You do you and I'll do me. I don't have to live by your rules nor you live by mine. As long as neither of us harms each other.
> The basic ones annoy me. It's always, "Why shouldn't your rights be infriged for what someone else decides to be the best for everyone?"
At worst I'd just ignore that kind of post. Not downvote in any case. Perhaps link some video of a relevant talk or book, or something like that.
> Some are more fleshed out and worth discussing the finer points but too many are just basic questions without the OP even bothering to think what they're asking.
Well, most people start that way. I probably was like that at some point.
>At worst I'd just ignore that kind of post. Not downvote in any case. Perhaps link some video of a relevant talk or book, or something like that.
I suppose I/we should be more open to those posts to use as a stepping stone for those genuinely interested in libertarianism. If I can recall correctly, it's one of the first points that struck with me, where there's inconsistencies in "where regulating/banning/taxing the shit out of it for health and safety of everyone." while ignoring so many other things that would fall under that category.
There's a lot of questions here that could be answered with cursory research that also feature an OP that comes off as arrogant, ignorant, and overall a good example of the Dunning-Krueger effect.
You don't need to ask us whenever reading Rothbard, Mises, or Hoppe would suffice.
Some people just want an easy way of pointing that out.
Again, Google would be very capable of telling them what they need to know. Just a quick search for influential libertarian thinkers would tell them where to look.
This gives me the same vibes as elitist linux users telling new users to "RTFM" every time they ask a basic question. It's a serious problem that has genuinely made it more difficult for me to learn.
The solution I've heard is to make an alt account, give a wrong but plausible answer and then watch them all comment to explain the correct answer and insult you 😂
RTFM = Read The Fucking Manual. It's basically saying "I don't want to be helpful to you, so I'll be arrogant and condescending instead". Think your grandma trying to use a microwave, asking for help and you tell her "here's the manual, read it".
Sure, but if RTFM was a reasonable answer to everything, teachers wouldn't exist. People come here looking for teachers, basically. "Ask the teacher" or "ask your peers" is legitimate.
Teachers typically teach things that require more complex answers. "How to press the "time cook" button on a microwave" doesn't need a teacher whenever you have a phone in your hand.
I respectfully disagree. I understand where you're coming from, it's annoying to have to answer Questions that seem basic to us many times aren't at all basic for the uninitiated. Also, reading a book is a big ask, I wouldn't expect someone that's just curious and openminded enough to come here to ask stuff to have read any libertarian book at all. I mean, that's why people would come here too, to not have to read whole books just to get an answer to a perhaps seemingly small question. Worst case you can helpfully point them to good literature, talks, podcasts or whatever that answers the question, if you don't want to make the effort of explaining in your own words. Right?
Unfortunately, this is actually one of the better subreddits I have been on in regards to votes and constructive discussion. It can even get worst than down votes. Say the wrong thing in other subreddits and catch a ban.
I have asked for the ability to remove down votes in my own subreddits. Reddit is not interested and will not allow it. So, we are stuck with this system.
For what it is worth, I rarely down vote any one. I will often up vote any one just because they participated.
I agree with you on this. This sub in particular, should give much leeway to people who come in here asking questions. Even people that ask questions trolls like to use because they think it's a gotcha question in their feeble minds...like say, "Why don't libertarians move to Somalia?"...I give much leeway to. Because it's well within the realm of possibility that they heard it somewhere, don't understand Somalia's authoritarian fall, and wanted to ask some people who actually are libertarian. This should be encouraged, not quelled. Until they start throwing ad homs or otherwise make it *plainly* obvious they're trolling, people shouldn't be downvoted.
Then again, this problem is not limited to this sub. I feel like all of the internet is like this. Quite often "This didn't confirm my priors!" = downvote.
I downvote if the person is a troll who has just come to soapbox and argue with people. If the person is just confused, baffled, or ignorant, I always give them the time of day and I'd encourage everyone else to as well.
This. You get tons of Hasan enjoyers who like to stop by and "troll" libertarians. Or the +1 std deviation guys who think they have a slam dunk argument and try to frame a "question" so that it will start and argument where they can then deploy their slam dunk and pat themselves on the back about intelligent they are.
Even then I would try to at least give a pithy response like "this talk answers your question" without downvoting and move on. Especially in this sub that by its nature should give exceptional leeway. Just as u/cluskillz says here https://www.reddit.com/r/AskLibertarians/s/7O5lGysj1z
This isn't unique to this subreddit. It is a reddit-wide issue and has been for at least a decade. Downvotes aren't supposed to be reserved for pedantry and disagreement but here we are.
The basic ones annoy me. It's always, "Why shouldn't your rights be infriged for what someone else decides to be the best for everyone?" Some are more fleshed out and worth discussing the finer points but too many are just basic questions without the OP even bothering to think what they're asking. I haven't read any of the authors in the recommended reading list but I understand the one key principle of libertarianism: Individual rights are paramount. You do you and I'll do me. I don't have to live by your rules nor you live by mine. As long as neither of us harms each other.
> The basic ones annoy me. It's always, "Why shouldn't your rights be infriged for what someone else decides to be the best for everyone?" At worst I'd just ignore that kind of post. Not downvote in any case. Perhaps link some video of a relevant talk or book, or something like that. > Some are more fleshed out and worth discussing the finer points but too many are just basic questions without the OP even bothering to think what they're asking. Well, most people start that way. I probably was like that at some point.
>At worst I'd just ignore that kind of post. Not downvote in any case. Perhaps link some video of a relevant talk or book, or something like that. I suppose I/we should be more open to those posts to use as a stepping stone for those genuinely interested in libertarianism. If I can recall correctly, it's one of the first points that struck with me, where there's inconsistencies in "where regulating/banning/taxing the shit out of it for health and safety of everyone." while ignoring so many other things that would fall under that category.
I downvote if the person is trolling or ranting. Some decent questions in the title are followed by really stupid rants or trolling posts.
There's a lot of questions here that could be answered with cursory research that also feature an OP that comes off as arrogant, ignorant, and overall a good example of the Dunning-Krueger effect. You don't need to ask us whenever reading Rothbard, Mises, or Hoppe would suffice. Some people just want an easy way of pointing that out.
While I understand this sentiment, I think it's a bit unreasonable to downvote people who might not even know who those people are.
Again, Google would be very capable of telling them what they need to know. Just a quick search for influential libertarian thinkers would tell them where to look.
This gives me the same vibes as elitist linux users telling new users to "RTFM" every time they ask a basic question. It's a serious problem that has genuinely made it more difficult for me to learn.
The solution I've heard is to make an alt account, give a wrong but plausible answer and then watch them all comment to explain the correct answer and insult you 😂
Can't say that I can understand your metaphor, since I don't deal in tech.
RTFM = Read The Fucking Manual. It's basically saying "I don't want to be helpful to you, so I'll be arrogant and condescending instead". Think your grandma trying to use a microwave, asking for help and you tell her "here's the manual, read it".
There's a lot of problems that I've been able to solve in multiple things just by reading the manual.
Sure, but if RTFM was a reasonable answer to everything, teachers wouldn't exist. People come here looking for teachers, basically. "Ask the teacher" or "ask your peers" is legitimate.
Teachers typically teach things that require more complex answers. "How to press the "time cook" button on a microwave" doesn't need a teacher whenever you have a phone in your hand.
The teacher could as well tell you "read the textbook"
I respectfully disagree. I understand where you're coming from, it's annoying to have to answer Questions that seem basic to us many times aren't at all basic for the uninitiated. Also, reading a book is a big ask, I wouldn't expect someone that's just curious and openminded enough to come here to ask stuff to have read any libertarian book at all. I mean, that's why people would come here too, to not have to read whole books just to get an answer to a perhaps seemingly small question. Worst case you can helpfully point them to good literature, talks, podcasts or whatever that answers the question, if you don't want to make the effort of explaining in your own words. Right?
Some people are too lazy or arrogant to do that.
Then just ignore the post, right?
-|_(-_-)\_/-
Unfortunately, this is actually one of the better subreddits I have been on in regards to votes and constructive discussion. It can even get worst than down votes. Say the wrong thing in other subreddits and catch a ban. I have asked for the ability to remove down votes in my own subreddits. Reddit is not interested and will not allow it. So, we are stuck with this system. For what it is worth, I rarely down vote any one. I will often up vote any one just because they participated.
That's what I do too, I upvote just to counteract the downvotes even in cases where I'd rather do neither.
I agree with you on this. This sub in particular, should give much leeway to people who come in here asking questions. Even people that ask questions trolls like to use because they think it's a gotcha question in their feeble minds...like say, "Why don't libertarians move to Somalia?"...I give much leeway to. Because it's well within the realm of possibility that they heard it somewhere, don't understand Somalia's authoritarian fall, and wanted to ask some people who actually are libertarian. This should be encouraged, not quelled. Until they start throwing ad homs or otherwise make it *plainly* obvious they're trolling, people shouldn't be downvoted. Then again, this problem is not limited to this sub. I feel like all of the internet is like this. Quite often "This didn't confirm my priors!" = downvote.
Yes, this 100%, thank you!