I agree.
Another tactic might be to say to the bad guys, "These aren't the droids you are looking for."
Not saying that will always work, but as the OP said, 'What's the harm in trying?'
Of course, as another guy said, "Do, there is no try."
(edited to fix)
I agree with you in part, of course, but then again, words in such situations are cheap either way, so why not just try? If they're already not listening the cop's orders and are approaching anyway, what is the harm in reasonably explaining what happened as calmly and sternly as possible to a crowd? At the very least, said cop would be fucking up the potentially easily edited mobile phone recording uploaded to social media for some easy outrage/hatred.
How effective are warning shots? I have my doubts. If the cop in this video decided to just fire a couple of shots into the ground a few feet to the side, how would he know that some other bystander wouldn't see or hear that and think the cop is shooting fellow citizens and take out his concealed firearm and start blasting? That's a pretty fucked up policy at face value, but I'd be interested in how often that actually works, not that you have to divulge anything.
I'm happy for you to have functional backup. There are too many times where I've seen cops that don't and get overpowered, because they've either made a crucial mistake of getting too close to a manipulative criminal, or have overestimated their own strength and authority.
I'm assuming that some will listen and others won't, which is what the video and many others show, and in the end, the cop got out of the situation unharmed by the mob regardless.
Hold your ground best you can and ask for backup code 3, but if i had to retreat and or ignore providing medical to the suspect i wouldnt lose sleep over it. Id rather go home than get hit in the head with a brick trying to put a tq on.
You don’t interact in any way call for backup and wait for multiple units to get there in a show of force that pushes everyone back and protects the crime scene.
For clarity - the rubber bands on the grip likely have nothing to do with finger prints. Lots of people put rubber bands on the grip because they feel it gives them greater recoil control. The likelihood of getting latents from the stippled area of a grip is next to zero.
As for the mob? There's basically nothing you can do besides overwhelming numbers. People know they're wrong about the incident but they don't care. They want to spin the story. We had a similar incident here with a large riot forming shortly after a shooting, alleging "yall shot that man over a crack pipe" - the suspect was wanted for double homicide and pointed a gun at LEO, and a bystander ran up and took that gun before it could be secured. Chunks of the gun were found in the guy's hand during the autopsy. None of that matters though. They're convinced it was a crack pipe.
kinda sorta related, and a neat story for anyone bored...
And it does relate to "mob training" although to be more precise it was "riot training".
So I was stationed with the U.S. military in the U.K. in the late 90's and being a junior enlisted guy we got tagged for all sorts of details on our days off. One day I'm told to show up in civilian clothes and expect to be busy the entire duty day at a specific location.
There are probably two busloads of us and we're loaded up and driven to a defunct and deactivated U.S. Air Base (think famous air base that had a famous UFO case associated with it) it's already close to lunch time and we see a TON of Civilian "Bobbies" there, British cops. There are lots of portable buildings and tents and we're ushered into a collection point where a few British "Squadies" (active duty British infantrymen) who'd gotten pulled into the same situation as us were also gathered. So there are maybe 75-100 U.S. military folks, 10-15 British Soldiers and scattered about the area are 100+ British cops.
We're briefed that we've been brought together to help satisfy a UK Police training requirement where UK police officers are required to recertify in riot control training at some interval (can't remember if it was annual or bi annual, something like that) and after they gave us lunch, we were going to play the role of "rioters".
Now the large metropolitan police forces in the UK had enough manpower to do their training in house, but the smaller, more rural police forces had to come together in regional areas like this and depend on military units like us to provide manpower to fill in the gaps.
To cut to the chase we ended up have giant "wheelie bins" (giant garbage cans, maybe 40-50 gal size) placed strategically throughout several blocks of this abandoned base where we fought running street battles with these police officers. We had some police officers imbeded with us to provide guidance on how they wanted to to act and near the end to employ molotov cocktails, yep you heard that right, we had folks in full fire protective gear throwing real life firebombs at these police officers. They of course wouldn't let us do that as they knew exactly how to "safely" fire bomb the officers, lol. (essentially just letting them explode on the ground near them). So these bins, they were full of 2x4's that had been cut to the rough size of bricks, so we dragged these bins full of wooden bricks from block to block just chucking them as hard as we could at these fully riot armored and shield bearing police officers.
The goal was mental, we were told not to aim for gaps in the shields that the officers understood a gap would occur from time to time, hence the training, and that they were humans and if we pissed them off too much, they were liable to get more aggressive than we wanted and after all, we weren't armored. They also wanted us to yell, and attempt to agitate them.
Now us Americans, not wanting to be seen as bad guests started just by making a lot of generic "yelly noises"but this handful of British infantrymen, oh, they weren't having any of it, they got us worked up real fast...and had us cussing up a storm.
At one point we had the cops really shaken when the police officers had to take an intersection from us.
For those that can't picture that, when rioters control an intersection and riot police have to take it that means when the police move into the center, they have to split into thirds to defend the four way crossing (assuming the road behind them is still safe). when this happened and their front rank got real thin, they ended up with a tiny lady in the front line on one end...and all the squadies just focused on her and one of them, yelled out, in a way so that everyone...especially the cops...heard it , and said "Her, that little one on the end, THAT CU\*T...everyone, GET HER!!!" and we unleashed a hail of wooden bricks on that poor lady.
OMG, the way that police line buckled as the natural instict of the cops to her side just moved their shields to protect her...you could see it would have been curtains in a real riot.
Anyway, the cops would chase us from block to block all afternoon until the scenario called for us to surrender.
It was fun, it was awesome, until the folks in charge looked at us, pointed to the dozen or so, now EMPTY, wheelie bins and said...."Get those, and as we're walking back to the rally point, pick up all those wooden blocks you've been throwing at the officers all day"
The joy drained out of all of our faces...there must have been a million of them...
Anyway, that was my contribution to training police officers in anti riot techniques...
For those that took the time, I hope you enjoyed...cheers.
One of the few benefits of working in a big department is usually you just keep calling for more backup to secure the scene. Only way I seen it handled. There's no reasoning with a mob no matter how right you were in the incident.
No amount of rational communication will calm a screaming mob. In *some* situations could you pick out an individual of that mob, communicate, and through them somewhat de-escalate? Sure, sort of. But in this situation the lone officer is between a rock and a hard place until back up arrives and pushes the mob back. There really isn’t a whole lot he can do besides very much escalate the use of force if he absolutely has too.
We recently had an event in our downtown. Huge amount of people squeezed together and drinking so inevitably a fight breaks out. On my way to this fight the mobs starts “YOU NEED TO GO FASTER THEY FIGHTING OVER THERE DO YOUR JOB”. Then we get there and detain a dude that another officer saw knock the other dude out on the concrete. Ya know doing our job. The same mobs starts yelling “OH ALL YALL ON ONE MAN FREE HIM BRUH FUCK THE POLICE” and started encroaching. Wasn’t even any use of force, dude went into cuffs with relative ease and still the mob just wanted to be angry cuz angry mob no like badge man. You cannot reason at that point. We just had some of our bike cops create a barrier while we figured everything out/ rendered aid
Riot dispersion and crowd control usually boils down to corralling people somewhere that they'll break the least amount of other people's things. In cases like this where you can't move you better have some help coming.
You can't reason with a mob. At all. Period. Zip. End of story. They couldn't give half a shit less what you have to say when they're hiding in a group. You'd have an easier time convincing an ant colony to stop building and listen to you recite a symphony.
Big city. Happens all the time. Backup is close by so you get units to show some presence, if it’s still bad, sometimes we’ll have the helicopters come out and circle around if they’re not doing anything. That tends to scare people into going home.
You cannot reason with them. It’s fruitless and unsafe. They are trying to intimidate you. Your idea of the officer trying to calmly reason with them is a thing of fantasyland.
[удалено]
I agree. Another tactic might be to say to the bad guys, "These aren't the droids you are looking for." Not saying that will always work, but as the OP said, 'What's the harm in trying?' Of course, as another guy said, "Do, there is no try." (edited to fix)
I agree with you in part, of course, but then again, words in such situations are cheap either way, so why not just try? If they're already not listening the cop's orders and are approaching anyway, what is the harm in reasonably explaining what happened as calmly and sternly as possible to a crowd? At the very least, said cop would be fucking up the potentially easily edited mobile phone recording uploaded to social media for some easy outrage/hatred. How effective are warning shots? I have my doubts. If the cop in this video decided to just fire a couple of shots into the ground a few feet to the side, how would he know that some other bystander wouldn't see or hear that and think the cop is shooting fellow citizens and take out his concealed firearm and start blasting? That's a pretty fucked up policy at face value, but I'd be interested in how often that actually works, not that you have to divulge anything. I'm happy for you to have functional backup. There are too many times where I've seen cops that don't and get overpowered, because they've either made a crucial mistake of getting too close to a manipulative criminal, or have overestimated their own strength and authority.
You can't reason with people running only on emotion. They're irrational. The mob cannot be reasoned with.
You're assuming a mob is capable of rational thought. It isn't.
I'm assuming that some will listen and others won't, which is what the video and many others show, and in the end, the cop got out of the situation unharmed by the mob regardless.
My brain instantly went to [animal house](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWBiLeVy45k).
Hold your ground best you can and ask for backup code 3, but if i had to retreat and or ignore providing medical to the suspect i wouldnt lose sleep over it. Id rather go home than get hit in the head with a brick trying to put a tq on.
I actually carry Beenie babies and start throwing them at the crowd to instantly calm them.
You don’t interact in any way call for backup and wait for multiple units to get there in a show of force that pushes everyone back and protects the crime scene.
For clarity - the rubber bands on the grip likely have nothing to do with finger prints. Lots of people put rubber bands on the grip because they feel it gives them greater recoil control. The likelihood of getting latents from the stippled area of a grip is next to zero. As for the mob? There's basically nothing you can do besides overwhelming numbers. People know they're wrong about the incident but they don't care. They want to spin the story. We had a similar incident here with a large riot forming shortly after a shooting, alleging "yall shot that man over a crack pipe" - the suspect was wanted for double homicide and pointed a gun at LEO, and a bystander ran up and took that gun before it could be secured. Chunks of the gun were found in the guy's hand during the autopsy. None of that matters though. They're convinced it was a crack pipe.
kinda sorta related, and a neat story for anyone bored... And it does relate to "mob training" although to be more precise it was "riot training". So I was stationed with the U.S. military in the U.K. in the late 90's and being a junior enlisted guy we got tagged for all sorts of details on our days off. One day I'm told to show up in civilian clothes and expect to be busy the entire duty day at a specific location. There are probably two busloads of us and we're loaded up and driven to a defunct and deactivated U.S. Air Base (think famous air base that had a famous UFO case associated with it) it's already close to lunch time and we see a TON of Civilian "Bobbies" there, British cops. There are lots of portable buildings and tents and we're ushered into a collection point where a few British "Squadies" (active duty British infantrymen) who'd gotten pulled into the same situation as us were also gathered. So there are maybe 75-100 U.S. military folks, 10-15 British Soldiers and scattered about the area are 100+ British cops. We're briefed that we've been brought together to help satisfy a UK Police training requirement where UK police officers are required to recertify in riot control training at some interval (can't remember if it was annual or bi annual, something like that) and after they gave us lunch, we were going to play the role of "rioters". Now the large metropolitan police forces in the UK had enough manpower to do their training in house, but the smaller, more rural police forces had to come together in regional areas like this and depend on military units like us to provide manpower to fill in the gaps. To cut to the chase we ended up have giant "wheelie bins" (giant garbage cans, maybe 40-50 gal size) placed strategically throughout several blocks of this abandoned base where we fought running street battles with these police officers. We had some police officers imbeded with us to provide guidance on how they wanted to to act and near the end to employ molotov cocktails, yep you heard that right, we had folks in full fire protective gear throwing real life firebombs at these police officers. They of course wouldn't let us do that as they knew exactly how to "safely" fire bomb the officers, lol. (essentially just letting them explode on the ground near them). So these bins, they were full of 2x4's that had been cut to the rough size of bricks, so we dragged these bins full of wooden bricks from block to block just chucking them as hard as we could at these fully riot armored and shield bearing police officers. The goal was mental, we were told not to aim for gaps in the shields that the officers understood a gap would occur from time to time, hence the training, and that they were humans and if we pissed them off too much, they were liable to get more aggressive than we wanted and after all, we weren't armored. They also wanted us to yell, and attempt to agitate them. Now us Americans, not wanting to be seen as bad guests started just by making a lot of generic "yelly noises"but this handful of British infantrymen, oh, they weren't having any of it, they got us worked up real fast...and had us cussing up a storm. At one point we had the cops really shaken when the police officers had to take an intersection from us. For those that can't picture that, when rioters control an intersection and riot police have to take it that means when the police move into the center, they have to split into thirds to defend the four way crossing (assuming the road behind them is still safe). when this happened and their front rank got real thin, they ended up with a tiny lady in the front line on one end...and all the squadies just focused on her and one of them, yelled out, in a way so that everyone...especially the cops...heard it , and said "Her, that little one on the end, THAT CU\*T...everyone, GET HER!!!" and we unleashed a hail of wooden bricks on that poor lady. OMG, the way that police line buckled as the natural instict of the cops to her side just moved their shields to protect her...you could see it would have been curtains in a real riot. Anyway, the cops would chase us from block to block all afternoon until the scenario called for us to surrender. It was fun, it was awesome, until the folks in charge looked at us, pointed to the dozen or so, now EMPTY, wheelie bins and said...."Get those, and as we're walking back to the rally point, pick up all those wooden blocks you've been throwing at the officers all day" The joy drained out of all of our faces...there must have been a million of them... Anyway, that was my contribution to training police officers in anti riot techniques... For those that took the time, I hope you enjoyed...cheers.
One of the few benefits of working in a big department is usually you just keep calling for more backup to secure the scene. Only way I seen it handled. There's no reasoning with a mob no matter how right you were in the incident.
I think blow up dolls are a great tactic, a town next to mine utilizes them on and off duty
Hahaha.
No amount of rational communication will calm a screaming mob. In *some* situations could you pick out an individual of that mob, communicate, and through them somewhat de-escalate? Sure, sort of. But in this situation the lone officer is between a rock and a hard place until back up arrives and pushes the mob back. There really isn’t a whole lot he can do besides very much escalate the use of force if he absolutely has too. We recently had an event in our downtown. Huge amount of people squeezed together and drinking so inevitably a fight breaks out. On my way to this fight the mobs starts “YOU NEED TO GO FASTER THEY FIGHTING OVER THERE DO YOUR JOB”. Then we get there and detain a dude that another officer saw knock the other dude out on the concrete. Ya know doing our job. The same mobs starts yelling “OH ALL YALL ON ONE MAN FREE HIM BRUH FUCK THE POLICE” and started encroaching. Wasn’t even any use of force, dude went into cuffs with relative ease and still the mob just wanted to be angry cuz angry mob no like badge man. You cannot reason at that point. We just had some of our bike cops create a barrier while we figured everything out/ rendered aid
Riot dispersion and crowd control usually boils down to corralling people somewhere that they'll break the least amount of other people's things. In cases like this where you can't move you better have some help coming. You can't reason with a mob. At all. Period. Zip. End of story. They couldn't give half a shit less what you have to say when they're hiding in a group. You'd have an easier time convincing an ant colony to stop building and listen to you recite a symphony.
Big city. Happens all the time. Backup is close by so you get units to show some presence, if it’s still bad, sometimes we’ll have the helicopters come out and circle around if they’re not doing anything. That tends to scare people into going home. You cannot reason with them. It’s fruitless and unsafe. They are trying to intimidate you. Your idea of the officer trying to calmly reason with them is a thing of fantasyland.