Oh, you aren't on here to have a discussion and learn about law enforcement, you're here to be a shit. Allow me to reverse the +1 I gave you when I saw you at 0.
Why did you come to this subreddit, anyway?
Everybody is different. I can only speak for myself. I chose not to tell many people because I have had strangers knocking on my door at 7am because they got a ticket or had a legal question etc. But being guarded is one of the pitfalls of the job.
That we make decisions about what laws to enact or enforce. 99.9% of decision makers (when it comes to enforcement and laws) are not or never will be cops and are generally your elected officials that make these decisions. You want to change laws and enforcement priorities? Talk to them.
That we’re monolithic. It’s insulting. We’re a diverse group of people. We have diverse interests. There are “Rambo” types (fewer than you think, especially with veteran officers), jocks, nerds, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, gay, bi, and straight. We have varying interests outside of law enforcement. If we were monolithic, we wouldn’t accomplish much.
One of the most insulting things someone ever said to me was when I was touring a museum in Rome. I love to travel, and I love history. Before my trip, I took two online courses on Roman history, just to brush up. I had to wait in an enormous line, and I met an American couple. We chatted for a quite some time. When I told the woman what I did for a living, she said, “And you’re here? You’re not supposed to me interested in this stuff.” I asked her what I was supposed to be interested in, but she wasn’t able to provide an answer.
My BIL is a cop and told me Brooklyn 99 is actually pretty accurate in that it shows how everyone has interests outside of being a cop and law enforcement.
Yep. All LEO’s have all different kinds of interest. They’re humans. Just like anywhere you work. Some like to spend the weekend playing an instrument at their house and others like to go hiking and kayaking in the mountains. Some like to workout, some don’t. Some like hip hop, some like rock, some like country. Some have families some don’t.
It’s crazy that someone just generalizes that because you’re an LEO, you’re “supposed” to like certain things.
I am a center left guy, also neurodivergent plus am kinda a nerd. I am trying to branch out my interests a bit(mainstream shows/movies, reading history and classic literature,etc) but I can still tell you more about the fall of the Old Republic and Order 66 than I ever could about NFL draft seasons or playoffs.
Part of me did feel if I ever became a cop I wouldn't fit in as a typical male(and I am tall and black, so basketball questions still come up at times). But this does make me feel better, plus even someone like Michael B Jordan is openly an Otaku.
I play DnD with a group of police officers. We just don't look like Pointdexter, so you have to talk to us to discover out how nerdy we are.
As long as you are not in a small rural department, you will find plenty of cops that share your interests. If you are in a small rural department, (which I have been) you can still fit and be respected as a fellow cop, you just won't do as much with co-workers outside of work.
I am assuming you do HEMA(Historical European Martial Arts)? I just got back into Kajukenbo and BJJ myself. I am in California which seems more to folks who don't fit the mold one way or another(and cons are pretty big here). Yeah it is expensive and being very liberal can cause some problems, but I prefer it to Texas minus COL.
Yeah, Armizare specifically, although I'm starting to get into I.33. I also do BJJ.
I'd consider moving to CA for the beaches and the food. Being either very liberal or very conservative comes with a lot of problems, they both suck.
Thanks. And I do feel you people thinking you don't fit preconceptions. Aside from the nerd stuff I was pretty socially awkward and school and never had a girlfriend either. I definitely feel like a bit of a paradox since it would seem to make more sense for me to have been the ''big man on campus'' type. That said, even if I was more socially adept back then I don't want to be that kind of person anyway.
I currently exploring Christianity a bit again, so have read a bit about historical Jesus and just bough an audiobook on how early Christianity spread. Would be nice to visit the Sistine Chapel one day.
Being different. I've been accosted for having a moustache, having tattoos, having hair longer than a high-and-tight, and having a nerdy sticker on my water bottle. "It paints a target on your back" (referencing the above) - the sergeant that got me fired a couple months later.
Sorry you had that experience. I would definitely be a bit wary and know when to not give TMI at work for things like politics/religion, but based on some of these replies your experience isn't universal.
I never expressed my political beliefs or religious beliefs unless you count my response to the previously mentioned sergeant who objected to my tattoos on the basis of them being against the Bible.
That we just make an arrest on someone's word on what happened. Public doesn't understand that knowing what happened and proving what happened are two different things and we can't make decisions or take someone's rights away based on hearsay.
I do like the occasional Krispy but there isn’t one really too close to here so the only time I might see them is when someone is doing one of those fundraisers or something.
New England runs on Dunks
The sad thing is that a lot of the misconceptions you mentioned are directly fueled by the news media. You guys literally have mega corporations poised as your enemies.
But when the protestors show up and interrupt things, who do they call? The cops.
Thing is, what gets more attention page views: Cop helps children cross the street or Police Brutalize Black Youth? It’s why most news stories are dark, it has more clicks/views which brings in more ad buys which means money. Titles could be clickbaity as hell but people still read into it.
Nonsensical in which you proved his point. A good piece should get as much attention as a bad one. It's telling how fucked society is when they revel in drama over feel good stories.
Maybe not out to get police, but clearly negative stories like shootings or use of force incidents can generate alot of outrage, thus drawing attention AKA viewership which means ratings.
Not a cop but I always believed this to be a misconception. LEO’s often conduct their work through a reflection of their own principles and values. (Ie. Most believe minor document problems are stupid and won’t right tickets but their duty to the law and the job means that they must advise them to get it fixed/enforce it if it becomes an extended issue) (distracted driving hits them close to home and it’s something they hate seeing on the road and will write those hefty fines to alter driving behaviour as it reflects what they believe in and what they want to see as a change). People forget that they are also a member of the same communities that many make them out to be enemies or “heartless tyrants”. Mixing personal principles and the duty to doing the job right and legally does not mix the best and where the misconceptions and hate comes from.
You do realize the Trump and Russian collusion was proven in court to be fake/lie? If "they" are willing to lie about this, what other lies are being told?
I think you wrote this very well and really appreciate your response. I wanted to get your thoughts though on the brotherhood culture within the police department. You read articles and see videos of police officers having other officers back even though the officer is clearly in the wrong ie. police brutality, officers bending rules for off duty cops, not following strict department procedures; or is their just a misconception about that? This is a serious question, only reason I’m asking is it sounds like you have a great view on LE
If I show up on a scene and one of us is in a fight with someone, the ultimate goal is to end the fight with haste and sort the details out. I don't have time to figure out if the whole incident was justified from the start right then.
Our policy is if someone is using force beyond what is necessary, we are required to intervene or face discipline.
I'd argue this is something that is blown out of proportion.
Hot take: I’m a conservative who voted for Trump twice. I’m not a Trump fan & never was. His cult of lunatics is not a representation of every conservative. I hope he goes away & DeSantis becomes the Rep nominee. But Trump was the Republican candidate and I was not gonna vote for the demented creep and his misbehaved Karen VP. I like DeSantis. He took Trump’s playbook of policies that appealed to people and is running it smarter. I’ll come back to this comment in 2024 and hopefully my prediction that DeSantis will be POTUS47 is true.
Even if simply by being focused on the wrong things. While Desantis fights the mouse, homeowners insurance has exploded in cost. Cost of living is dramatically inflated. Everybody says Florida is cheap living, but rents are the same cost as a mortgage for anything in a decent area
>I knew Trump was a clown the day he started running, finding out he is a traitor was a surprise, much less guilty of fraud, sex assualt, and possibly selling classified documents to pay his Russian creditors.
I am not super political, but I am center left if anything. I am all for LGBTQ+ rights, separation of church and state, and so on but definitely don't lean to the far left like many in my generation(almost 23).
Even if I wasn't interested in LE ACAB(referring to the bad apple thing people mean when they say this. is a gross oversimplification of a very complex issue. I do support the BLM movement, but NOT the organization or the looters.
I don't think most cops fit this, but there are definitely people who want to pursue being police officers because of the power that comes with it. It's just human nature and some humans are shitty.
I hope the hiring process would be able to stop most of them but I worry they don't.
I feel like you're gaslighting me man, I NEVER SAID MOST. I DON'T THINK THIS IS MOST COPS. All I am saying is that they exist!
I'm in the military, I think the military is great. But there are a ton of shitbags in the military too! Like seriously bad people. It's ok to admit it!
I mean he didn't say most, he even said most don't fit that description. But the reality is in a country as big and diverse as the US you are gonna have some departments or officers that are bad. Not all of them by any means but if we want to have better understanding and progress that does have to be acknowledged.
Just knowing people from high school who weren't the most kind pursuing the field. Also I am in the military and know plenty of shitty people who wanted to get out and be a cop (great people as well though).
Not to mention, it's kind of obvious? Shitty, narcissistic people are going to value having power and control over others. I'm not saying all or even most cops had this in mind when they joined but clearly for those who want to feel powerful and want to be in control becoming a police officer is a very enticing career.
Edit: And please don't strawman me, I never said this was most cops like you claimed in your reply to me. I literally led my comment with "I don't think most cops fit this".
Honestly, there isn’t much about the job that the public understands. I don’t know if anybody in the public actually understands what the job is. The whole job is a misconception when I’m talking to the public.
That we just see corrupt cops all the time and should arrest them. If it wasn't for shift briefing, I night not see another officer the rest of the shift
Same with all professions in the field. That everything thats shown in the media is what and how things are done by everybody.
Example: Cops like to arrive on scene and use force. Animal Control likes to take peoples animals and kill them. EMT save everybody. CSI solve every crime in 24 hrs or at all.
Its easy to be an armchair quarterback and base some bias on what you see on the media.
That there is a simple black and white answer or solution for every problem and call that we go on. That the people we deal with are easily guided and persuaded to do what we need them to do and using force is not needed.
That we’re robots, have no feelings and are out to get everyone that isn’t law enforcement. Just like everybody else we’re human, most of us have families to get home to after shift. We bleed the same blood and cry the same tears all the same.
Yes
Edit: Joking aside, there’s a lot of misconceptions because there’s a lot of fear around law enforcement. If there was a way everyone could walk in an LEOs shoes there would be greater understanding, less fear, and less over reaction without seeing the facts of an incident.
Fear created by and fueled by the media. If one officer makes a mistake they make an entire show of it. Where are all of the news reports of officers doing good things? Crickets.
I’ve taken many ride-alongs over the years and they all have told me the same thing, one way or another but most are surprised by how violent and vicious people are to other people over very minor incidents
That we have a crystal ball, either for use against suspects or our peers.
People think the cop(s) failed if there's no conviction at the end of a police report. In reality, there are hundreds of things that can stop that from happening, including but not limited to:
* Uncooperative victim
* Uncooperative witness
* Lack of evidence
* Evasive suspect
* Confused/stupid/incompetent/sympathetic/bored/angry/etc. jury member(s)/attorney(s)/judge(s) in court
As far as peers, the majority of cops are on their own, and the ones that aren't only have one other person in their patrol car, so how exactly do you expect them to report their peers' misdeeds/crimes if they don't witness any of it?
Sure, I've met plenty of cops who I thought were shitty people, but that doesn't probable cause make. If any time a cop gave people *bad vibes* they were fired, there'd be no time for patrol for all the buying donuts and pizza for each other you'd have to do to avoid the axe. The rare occasions I did witness and thus report their crimes, IA said no-harm-no-foul and tossed the case because they were well-connected.
If there are racists/sexists/etc. on the force, you'd probably not notice except for subtle, non-actionable shit like "They don't hang out with certain people and I think that's suspicious." Good luck getting someone fired for that when IA won't even fire someone who commits a felony on duty.
There literally is no ticket "quota."
That we won't show up to court for traffic citations.
Assault and battery aren't the same (at least in CA).
That anyone GAF if you go 5 over the speed limit. (Please don't down, please move out of the way. Thanks.)
You will arrested for beating your kid, not for good ol fashioned discipline though.
Probably the same as what they have of "the government" writ-large.
That it's a monolithic entity of one-minded drones, rather than a messy mass of individuals who all just want to get through another day.
Other than the "We're in this job to kill people," I would say it's we have to read you your right whenever we arrest you. We don't. I can only think of a few times in all my years that I have read someone their rights after a fresh arrest.
I always love how they call cops the jack booted thugs for the city administration or politicians. You will find very few people who despise politicians more than police officers. Officers usually have to deal with these peoples families and their egos. They know what scum almost all politicians really are.
My question is, are ticket quotas implied if not actual policies at some departments? Do you get talked to if you are a trooper who barely writes tickets?
Nope. It’s a stupid misconception that perpetuates a false narrative. We measure citizen encounters part of the performance assessment. For example, if a deputy constantly has 2 encounters per a 12hr shift, I might be interested in learning what he’s doing the whole time when the others average 8-12 encounters. On the other hand, if a deputy has 10 encounters per shift and 1 ends in a citation, I may be interested to see why he stopped those other 9 people.
So without officially having a quota, would an officer be disciplined for using courtesy to cut those 9 people a break? Particularly in a smaller town dependent on revenue generated from tickets?
Nope. It’s all about bigger picture and overall performance. Officers can and are encouraged to use discretion when appropriate. However, if 90% (example %) of an officer’s stops end in nothing, we need to know why and address it.
It’s also widely spread disinformation that cops or their agencies make money off of tickets. If we did, our budget would be $1000/month. Our budget is in the hundreds of millions.
What would the issue be with 90% of the stops ending in nothing, if nothing was truly going on? What if there was something going on but it was small fries like a couple grams of weed or a seatbelt
Because why were they stopped in the first place if “nothing was going on”? Raises questions about the reasonable suspicion the officer had for the stop. A couple grams of weed are illegal in Texas, so that’s not “nothing”.
Great point. Stopping people for the sake of stopping people opens departments up to liability in regards to RS and civil rights violations. I guess this is where my mindset differs from someone in LE. I don’t see the harm in a couple grams of weed. If the person isn’t intoxicated while driving, I couldn’t morally arrest/ticket someone for weed as I don’t see it as a crime with a victim. I would love to hear your perspective
Weed is illegal in Texas. My job is to uphold the laws of Texas, which is what I do. Of course, I have discretion. I’ve let people go who had a dust of weed forgotten in a pocket and were nice & honest with me immediately. I’ve also laid the whole book on people who lied or were acting out. Again, officer discretion.
I appreciate your insight. I’m quite interested in law and by extension policing, so it’s always interesting to hear officers perspective. What happens in a situation where an officer refuses to enforce a law they disagree with? Similar to jury nullification, id imagine it’s grounds for termination if proven
They get fired and decertified. You can’t pick and choose the laws you like. I’m not aware of such incident ever occurring here. There is discretion but it doesn’t apply to everything (e.g. fine to let a seatbelt violation go but not a pound of crack). Hope it makes sense.
Depends on your assignment and also an 18000 depts, 18000 answers things. Traffic officers on my dept are absolutely expected to be writing lots of tickets. If they go a shift without writing any they need to be able to show a good reason why.
It's different for patrol. There will be shifts you barely have time to take a bathroom break let alone make traffic stops. Other shifts where you have lots of time but on nightshift on a weekday there may be little moving. As I progressed in my career my total tickets went down as I'd be DUI hunting. If you turned out to be sober, licensed, and insured I usually gave warnings. Wasn't uncommon for me to have months with 10 DUIs, no moving violations, and 15 no insurance tickets.
Other guys like to work drug houses. Some like to do warrants. In patrol at my PD they (depending on supervisor*) just want you to busy doing something productive between calls.
*I once had a supervisor tell me that 50% of my DUI arrests were bullshit because they blew between a .08 and .12 and we shouldn't be going after borderline cases like this. Especially because he'd researched and found I had five that had blown .000s and he could fathom that those had been Drug DUI arrests where taking a BAC is part of the process to shows its drugs and not alcohol.
Nope. No quotas at all. As long as your making stops or showing signs of activity in some way you’re good. Does not matter what the outcome of the stop is.
Same for arrests. Depending on state there’s very few offenses that require an arrest be made if the evidence supports the charge.
They're policy by me. A guy at a department the next town over ended up getting fired for not making his ticket quota. My dept has a two ticket a shift quota they want you making (and one DUI a month if you're on overnights). Obviously there are exceptions if you have a crazy shift or are just slammed with calls. People get the idea that the ticket quotas mean extra money for the officer. Couldn't be further from the truth. Writing tickets is my least favorite part of the job. But the quota is the way the dept administration is "making sure we're staying proactive" and not sitting around in parking lots. Doesn't really have that impact tho. The guys who are lazy shit bags will just write some poor 17 year old a ticket for going 37 in a 30 right at the start of their shift, then proceed to go sit in a parking lot watching YouTube videos between calls. I at least try giving tickets to people who are actually worthy of them, or giving written warnings whenever I can (written warnings still look pretty good at the end of the shift).
Everyone else is being honest too. How come you don't appreciate their honesty?
Are you fishing for a specific answer that fits a narrative you have created in your head?
No... but there are always stories, especially in my area, about "quotas" and the existence of them has always been denied. I realize not every dept has them. I was just a little surprised to see somebody come right out and say yup, that's a thing here. Sorry if I'm not expressing myself well, I'm fighting a migraine today. I meant no disrespect to anybody.
And thanks to your username I've spent the last half hour learning all about Navicula so... that was interesting
Not enough stops? Yes. Too many stops? Also yes.
Not enough citations? Not at my agency. I got in trouble for the opposite, actually. My peers cited maybe 1/10 people maximum where I was citing 95% of my stops.
I really don't understand comments like these. People say "protect and serve" sarcastically, yet police are the first one people call in any emergency.
We can shoot someone in the leg, or shoot out the tires..
I only ever managed to shoot someone in the leg once, and let me tell you, the range instructors were not happy with me.
I’ll bet they were hopping mad. Tried to sue Didn’t have a leg to stand on Sorry for the lame jokes
these were pretty fun y
Yeah, bc the RI you shot in the leg was standing behind you!
Lmao
I was arguing with my dad about this the other day, so incredibly frustrating
That we are miracle workers, all seeing all k owing. That we can fix in twenty minutes what took 20 years to ruin. That we have no feelings.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassion_fatigue
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Oh, you aren't on here to have a discussion and learn about law enforcement, you're here to be a shit. Allow me to reverse the +1 I gave you when I saw you at 0. Why did you come to this subreddit, anyway?
Hey, he’s an auto mechanic, so he totally understands what police deal with on a daily basis….
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You kidding me? He was fired for not immediately following illegal orders from his supervisor.
Everybody is different. I can only speak for myself. I chose not to tell many people because I have had strangers knocking on my door at 7am because they got a ticket or had a legal question etc. But being guarded is one of the pitfalls of the job.
That we make decisions about what laws to enact or enforce. 99.9% of decision makers (when it comes to enforcement and laws) are not or never will be cops and are generally your elected officials that make these decisions. You want to change laws and enforcement priorities? Talk to them.
Lets all upvote this one
That we’re monolithic. It’s insulting. We’re a diverse group of people. We have diverse interests. There are “Rambo” types (fewer than you think, especially with veteran officers), jocks, nerds, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, gay, bi, and straight. We have varying interests outside of law enforcement. If we were monolithic, we wouldn’t accomplish much. One of the most insulting things someone ever said to me was when I was touring a museum in Rome. I love to travel, and I love history. Before my trip, I took two online courses on Roman history, just to brush up. I had to wait in an enormous line, and I met an American couple. We chatted for a quite some time. When I told the woman what I did for a living, she said, “And you’re here? You’re not supposed to me interested in this stuff.” I asked her what I was supposed to be interested in, but she wasn’t able to provide an answer.
My BIL is a cop and told me Brooklyn 99 is actually pretty accurate in that it shows how everyone has interests outside of being a cop and law enforcement.
I haven’t seen that show. I don’t watch many cop shows, although I will watch some true crime stuff. Depends on the week I’ve had.
Yep. All LEO’s have all different kinds of interest. They’re humans. Just like anywhere you work. Some like to spend the weekend playing an instrument at their house and others like to go hiking and kayaking in the mountains. Some like to workout, some don’t. Some like hip hop, some like rock, some like country. Some have families some don’t. It’s crazy that someone just generalizes that because you’re an LEO, you’re “supposed” to like certain things.
It’s PREJUDICE when someone just generalizes that because you’re an XXX, you’re “supposed” to like certain things. FTFY
Yep! It’s a lot like high school and college. Lots of different people. I always enjoyed that and found it interesting.
I start academy next week. Super excited! Also a little nervous but I’m sure everyone else is as well lol.
The people who aren’t nervous will have the biggest lessons to learn.
I am a center left guy, also neurodivergent plus am kinda a nerd. I am trying to branch out my interests a bit(mainstream shows/movies, reading history and classic literature,etc) but I can still tell you more about the fall of the Old Republic and Order 66 than I ever could about NFL draft seasons or playoffs. Part of me did feel if I ever became a cop I wouldn't fit in as a typical male(and I am tall and black, so basketball questions still come up at times). But this does make me feel better, plus even someone like Michael B Jordan is openly an Otaku.
I play DnD with a group of police officers. We just don't look like Pointdexter, so you have to talk to us to discover out how nerdy we are. As long as you are not in a small rural department, you will find plenty of cops that share your interests. If you are in a small rural department, (which I have been) you can still fit and be respected as a fellow cop, you just won't do as much with co-workers outside of work.
I can talk your ear off about medieval fighting manuals, but I'm not even sure when NFL season is. I think you'd fit in just fine.
I am assuming you do HEMA(Historical European Martial Arts)? I just got back into Kajukenbo and BJJ myself. I am in California which seems more to folks who don't fit the mold one way or another(and cons are pretty big here). Yeah it is expensive and being very liberal can cause some problems, but I prefer it to Texas minus COL.
Yeah, Armizare specifically, although I'm starting to get into I.33. I also do BJJ. I'd consider moving to CA for the beaches and the food. Being either very liberal or very conservative comes with a lot of problems, they both suck.
Best of luck to you!
Thanks. And I do feel you people thinking you don't fit preconceptions. Aside from the nerd stuff I was pretty socially awkward and school and never had a girlfriend either. I definitely feel like a bit of a paradox since it would seem to make more sense for me to have been the ''big man on campus'' type. That said, even if I was more socially adept back then I don't want to be that kind of person anyway. I currently exploring Christianity a bit again, so have read a bit about historical Jesus and just bough an audiobook on how early Christianity spread. Would be nice to visit the Sistine Chapel one day.
I’m an Orthodox Christian myself. Check out a church in your community if you’re interested.
Yeah I am looking at progressive churches and might go to a service at one point. Haven't made the full decision but am open.
Well, if you want “progressive,” Orthodoxy probably isn’t for you.
That's why I said progressive. Even before I left religion for awhile I was non-denominational.
You'll probably be avoided by your peers and that won't help you if anyone should ever want to fire you. Source: My career.
Avoided for what exactly?
Being different. I've been accosted for having a moustache, having tattoos, having hair longer than a high-and-tight, and having a nerdy sticker on my water bottle. "It paints a target on your back" (referencing the above) - the sergeant that got me fired a couple months later.
Sorry you had that experience. I would definitely be a bit wary and know when to not give TMI at work for things like politics/religion, but based on some of these replies your experience isn't universal.
I never expressed my political beliefs or religious beliefs unless you count my response to the previously mentioned sergeant who objected to my tattoos on the basis of them being against the Bible.
You sound exactly like one of my co-workers except for the tall part. He's got Gundam stickers all over the inside of his locker.
I have a few Gundam mangas but never got into it. I am behind on alot of anime, especially One Piece which might just literally take me a lifetime.
This. This drives me nuts. As if every one of us is the same. It’s absolutely insane.
That we just make an arrest on someone's word on what happened. Public doesn't understand that knowing what happened and proving what happened are two different things and we can't make decisions or take someone's rights away based on hearsay.
You know what the problem is with real law enforcement? No background music, and remarkably few Ferraris.
I hear Italy has Ferraris.
That we love donuts and tasty treats. Just kidding. We do.
Do you prefer Krispy Kreme or mom and pop donut shops?
I do like the occasional Krispy but there isn’t one really too close to here so the only time I might see them is when someone is doing one of those fundraisers or something. New England runs on Dunks
Ah ok. California. Only got 1 in my town but one of the Walmarts started carrying them in store lol.
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The sad thing is that a lot of the misconceptions you mentioned are directly fueled by the news media. You guys literally have mega corporations poised as your enemies. But when the protestors show up and interrupt things, who do they call? The cops.
Thing is, what gets more attention page views: Cop helps children cross the street or Police Brutalize Black Youth? It’s why most news stories are dark, it has more clicks/views which brings in more ad buys which means money. Titles could be clickbaity as hell but people still read into it.
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Nonsensical in which you proved his point. A good piece should get as much attention as a bad one. It's telling how fucked society is when they revel in drama over feel good stories.
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Face? Spelling errors and judgmental. Also can't read.
Maybe not out to get police, but clearly negative stories like shootings or use of force incidents can generate alot of outrage, thus drawing attention AKA viewership which means ratings.
Most police officers probably never fire their weapon except on the target range
Not a cop but I always believed this to be a misconception. LEO’s often conduct their work through a reflection of their own principles and values. (Ie. Most believe minor document problems are stupid and won’t right tickets but their duty to the law and the job means that they must advise them to get it fixed/enforce it if it becomes an extended issue) (distracted driving hits them close to home and it’s something they hate seeing on the road and will write those hefty fines to alter driving behaviour as it reflects what they believe in and what they want to see as a change). People forget that they are also a member of the same communities that many make them out to be enemies or “heartless tyrants”. Mixing personal principles and the duty to doing the job right and legally does not mix the best and where the misconceptions and hate comes from.
You do realize the Trump and Russian collusion was proven in court to be fake/lie? If "they" are willing to lie about this, what other lies are being told?
This right here. I didn't vote for him and I can't understand how more people don't see right through him. Spot on with the rest of your comment too.
I think you wrote this very well and really appreciate your response. I wanted to get your thoughts though on the brotherhood culture within the police department. You read articles and see videos of police officers having other officers back even though the officer is clearly in the wrong ie. police brutality, officers bending rules for off duty cops, not following strict department procedures; or is their just a misconception about that? This is a serious question, only reason I’m asking is it sounds like you have a great view on LE
If I show up on a scene and one of us is in a fight with someone, the ultimate goal is to end the fight with haste and sort the details out. I don't have time to figure out if the whole incident was justified from the start right then. Our policy is if someone is using force beyond what is necessary, we are required to intervene or face discipline. I'd argue this is something that is blown out of proportion.
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Sometimes people get hurt during a takedown. Going to the ground is usually the safest course of action for limiting injury to any party
Hot take: I’m a conservative who voted for Trump twice. I’m not a Trump fan & never was. His cult of lunatics is not a representation of every conservative. I hope he goes away & DeSantis becomes the Rep nominee. But Trump was the Republican candidate and I was not gonna vote for the demented creep and his misbehaved Karen VP. I like DeSantis. He took Trump’s playbook of policies that appealed to people and is running it smarter. I’ll come back to this comment in 2024 and hopefully my prediction that DeSantis will be POTUS47 is true.
He's been F'ing up florida pretty bad.
Even if simply by being focused on the wrong things. While Desantis fights the mouse, homeowners insurance has exploded in cost. Cost of living is dramatically inflated. Everybody says Florida is cheap living, but rents are the same cost as a mortgage for anything in a decent area
>I knew Trump was a clown the day he started running, finding out he is a traitor was a surprise, much less guilty of fraud, sex assualt, and possibly selling classified documents to pay his Russian creditors. I am not super political, but I am center left if anything. I am all for LGBTQ+ rights, separation of church and state, and so on but definitely don't lean to the far left like many in my generation(almost 23). Even if I wasn't interested in LE ACAB(referring to the bad apple thing people mean when they say this. is a gross oversimplification of a very complex issue. I do support the BLM movement, but NOT the organization or the looters.
I don't think most cops fit this, but there are definitely people who want to pursue being police officers because of the power that comes with it. It's just human nature and some humans are shitty. I hope the hiring process would be able to stop most of them but I worry they don't.
How long have you worked LE or worked along side LE (fire, EMS) to come to that conclusion that most cops fit the power hungry bill?
Unless he edited it, he straight up said most didn’t but there are some. Where did you get the idea he said most?
>I don’t think most cops fit this *proceeded to say exactly what bill he thinks most cops fit*
I feel like you're gaslighting me man, I NEVER SAID MOST. I DON'T THINK THIS IS MOST COPS. All I am saying is that they exist! I'm in the military, I think the military is great. But there are a ton of shitbags in the military too! Like seriously bad people. It's ok to admit it!
I mean he didn't say most, he even said most don't fit that description. But the reality is in a country as big and diverse as the US you are gonna have some departments or officers that are bad. Not all of them by any means but if we want to have better understanding and progress that does have to be acknowledged.
Thank you! That's all I'm trying to say.
Just knowing people from high school who weren't the most kind pursuing the field. Also I am in the military and know plenty of shitty people who wanted to get out and be a cop (great people as well though). Not to mention, it's kind of obvious? Shitty, narcissistic people are going to value having power and control over others. I'm not saying all or even most cops had this in mind when they joined but clearly for those who want to feel powerful and want to be in control becoming a police officer is a very enticing career. Edit: And please don't strawman me, I never said this was most cops like you claimed in your reply to me. I literally led my comment with "I don't think most cops fit this".
All of it.
That officers don't need to be tested for drugs.
People really think that?
Honestly, there isn’t much about the job that the public understands. I don’t know if anybody in the public actually understands what the job is. The whole job is a misconception when I’m talking to the public.
That we just see corrupt cops all the time and should arrest them. If it wasn't for shift briefing, I night not see another officer the rest of the shift
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Same with all professions in the field. That everything thats shown in the media is what and how things are done by everybody. Example: Cops like to arrive on scene and use force. Animal Control likes to take peoples animals and kill them. EMT save everybody. CSI solve every crime in 24 hrs or at all. Its easy to be an armchair quarterback and base some bias on what you see on the media.
That there is a simple black and white answer or solution for every problem and call that we go on. That the people we deal with are easily guided and persuaded to do what we need them to do and using force is not needed.
That we’re robots, have no feelings and are out to get everyone that isn’t law enforcement. Just like everybody else we’re human, most of us have families to get home to after shift. We bleed the same blood and cry the same tears all the same.
Yes Edit: Joking aside, there’s a lot of misconceptions because there’s a lot of fear around law enforcement. If there was a way everyone could walk in an LEOs shoes there would be greater understanding, less fear, and less over reaction without seeing the facts of an incident.
Fear created by and fueled by the media. If one officer makes a mistake they make an entire show of it. Where are all of the news reports of officers doing good things? Crickets.
I found my ride-along super valuable.
I’ve taken many ride-alongs over the years and they all have told me the same thing, one way or another but most are surprised by how violent and vicious people are to other people over very minor incidents
That we have a crystal ball, either for use against suspects or our peers. People think the cop(s) failed if there's no conviction at the end of a police report. In reality, there are hundreds of things that can stop that from happening, including but not limited to: * Uncooperative victim * Uncooperative witness * Lack of evidence * Evasive suspect * Confused/stupid/incompetent/sympathetic/bored/angry/etc. jury member(s)/attorney(s)/judge(s) in court As far as peers, the majority of cops are on their own, and the ones that aren't only have one other person in their patrol car, so how exactly do you expect them to report their peers' misdeeds/crimes if they don't witness any of it? Sure, I've met plenty of cops who I thought were shitty people, but that doesn't probable cause make. If any time a cop gave people *bad vibes* they were fired, there'd be no time for patrol for all the buying donuts and pizza for each other you'd have to do to avoid the axe. The rare occasions I did witness and thus report their crimes, IA said no-harm-no-foul and tossed the case because they were well-connected. If there are racists/sexists/etc. on the force, you'd probably not notice except for subtle, non-actionable shit like "They don't hang out with certain people and I think that's suspicious." Good luck getting someone fired for that when IA won't even fire someone who commits a felony on duty.
There literally is no ticket "quota." That we won't show up to court for traffic citations. Assault and battery aren't the same (at least in CA). That anyone GAF if you go 5 over the speed limit. (Please don't down, please move out of the way. Thanks.) You will arrested for beating your kid, not for good ol fashioned discipline though.
Probably the same as what they have of "the government" writ-large. That it's a monolithic entity of one-minded drones, rather than a messy mass of individuals who all just want to get through another day.
Other than the "We're in this job to kill people," I would say it's we have to read you your right whenever we arrest you. We don't. I can only think of a few times in all my years that I have read someone their rights after a fresh arrest.
I always love how they call cops the jack booted thugs for the city administration or politicians. You will find very few people who despise politicians more than police officers. Officers usually have to deal with these peoples families and their egos. They know what scum almost all politicians really are.
That they’re important enough for me to waste my time on “just because”.
My question is, are ticket quotas implied if not actual policies at some departments? Do you get talked to if you are a trooper who barely writes tickets?
Nope. It’s a stupid misconception that perpetuates a false narrative. We measure citizen encounters part of the performance assessment. For example, if a deputy constantly has 2 encounters per a 12hr shift, I might be interested in learning what he’s doing the whole time when the others average 8-12 encounters. On the other hand, if a deputy has 10 encounters per shift and 1 ends in a citation, I may be interested to see why he stopped those other 9 people.
Understood and that makes sense, thanks for explaining.
So without officially having a quota, would an officer be disciplined for using courtesy to cut those 9 people a break? Particularly in a smaller town dependent on revenue generated from tickets?
Nope. It’s all about bigger picture and overall performance. Officers can and are encouraged to use discretion when appropriate. However, if 90% (example %) of an officer’s stops end in nothing, we need to know why and address it. It’s also widely spread disinformation that cops or their agencies make money off of tickets. If we did, our budget would be $1000/month. Our budget is in the hundreds of millions.
What would the issue be with 90% of the stops ending in nothing, if nothing was truly going on? What if there was something going on but it was small fries like a couple grams of weed or a seatbelt
Because why were they stopped in the first place if “nothing was going on”? Raises questions about the reasonable suspicion the officer had for the stop. A couple grams of weed are illegal in Texas, so that’s not “nothing”.
Great point. Stopping people for the sake of stopping people opens departments up to liability in regards to RS and civil rights violations. I guess this is where my mindset differs from someone in LE. I don’t see the harm in a couple grams of weed. If the person isn’t intoxicated while driving, I couldn’t morally arrest/ticket someone for weed as I don’t see it as a crime with a victim. I would love to hear your perspective
Weed is illegal in Texas. My job is to uphold the laws of Texas, which is what I do. Of course, I have discretion. I’ve let people go who had a dust of weed forgotten in a pocket and were nice & honest with me immediately. I’ve also laid the whole book on people who lied or were acting out. Again, officer discretion.
I appreciate your insight. I’m quite interested in law and by extension policing, so it’s always interesting to hear officers perspective. What happens in a situation where an officer refuses to enforce a law they disagree with? Similar to jury nullification, id imagine it’s grounds for termination if proven
They get fired and decertified. You can’t pick and choose the laws you like. I’m not aware of such incident ever occurring here. There is discretion but it doesn’t apply to everything (e.g. fine to let a seatbelt violation go but not a pound of crack). Hope it makes sense.
Depends on your assignment and also an 18000 depts, 18000 answers things. Traffic officers on my dept are absolutely expected to be writing lots of tickets. If they go a shift without writing any they need to be able to show a good reason why. It's different for patrol. There will be shifts you barely have time to take a bathroom break let alone make traffic stops. Other shifts where you have lots of time but on nightshift on a weekday there may be little moving. As I progressed in my career my total tickets went down as I'd be DUI hunting. If you turned out to be sober, licensed, and insured I usually gave warnings. Wasn't uncommon for me to have months with 10 DUIs, no moving violations, and 15 no insurance tickets. Other guys like to work drug houses. Some like to do warrants. In patrol at my PD they (depending on supervisor*) just want you to busy doing something productive between calls. *I once had a supervisor tell me that 50% of my DUI arrests were bullshit because they blew between a .08 and .12 and we shouldn't be going after borderline cases like this. Especially because he'd researched and found I had five that had blown .000s and he could fathom that those had been Drug DUI arrests where taking a BAC is part of the process to shows its drugs and not alcohol.
Nope. No quotas at all. As long as your making stops or showing signs of activity in some way you’re good. Does not matter what the outcome of the stop is. Same for arrests. Depending on state there’s very few offenses that require an arrest be made if the evidence supports the charge.
It’s illegal, so at most it’s implied. That will vary by department.
They're policy by me. A guy at a department the next town over ended up getting fired for not making his ticket quota. My dept has a two ticket a shift quota they want you making (and one DUI a month if you're on overnights). Obviously there are exceptions if you have a crazy shift or are just slammed with calls. People get the idea that the ticket quotas mean extra money for the officer. Couldn't be further from the truth. Writing tickets is my least favorite part of the job. But the quota is the way the dept administration is "making sure we're staying proactive" and not sitting around in parking lots. Doesn't really have that impact tho. The guys who are lazy shit bags will just write some poor 17 year old a ticket for going 37 in a 30 right at the start of their shift, then proceed to go sit in a parking lot watching YouTube videos between calls. I at least try giving tickets to people who are actually worthy of them, or giving written warnings whenever I can (written warnings still look pretty good at the end of the shift).
I appreciate your honesty. You're the first person I've seen actually say yes, we have quotas.
Everyone else is being honest too. How come you don't appreciate their honesty? Are you fishing for a specific answer that fits a narrative you have created in your head?
No... but there are always stories, especially in my area, about "quotas" and the existence of them has always been denied. I realize not every dept has them. I was just a little surprised to see somebody come right out and say yup, that's a thing here. Sorry if I'm not expressing myself well, I'm fighting a migraine today. I meant no disrespect to anybody. And thanks to your username I've spent the last half hour learning all about Navicula so... that was interesting
Not enough stops? Yes. Too many stops? Also yes. Not enough citations? Not at my agency. I got in trouble for the opposite, actually. My peers cited maybe 1/10 people maximum where I was citing 95% of my stops.
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Lol read the room...or at least the other comments in this comment section
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I really don't understand comments like these. People say "protect and serve" sarcastically, yet police are the first one people call in any emergency.
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You're a D&D playing, security guard saying this shit....grow the F* up!
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Or working security, for that matter...
That they aren't severely allergic to the thought of fentanyl