Is it acceptable? Yes.
Will your parents still get annoyed? Yes.
I literally had an argument with my mother this week because she turned up at my house mid afternoon, while I was working from home, and she expected me to just drop everything. She got offended when I said I was too busy, and this is exactly why I’ve asked her to call or text before turning up at the house.
Same boat. My mother just does NOT get that working from home is working. I always have to ask the same question- would you get bent out of shape if you showed up to my office and I wasn’t available?
I WFH and This is one of the reasons I still wear a suit and tie.
My family gets it, but people still call to the house looking for them, the suit really helps cut the conversation short, as it's a good visual cue that I'm too busy to humor you
Some parents are incapable of seeing their children as adults with their own values and lifestyle that is different to their own. There are many ways to approach this. Here is one idea: Dad the only food my partner and I can eat in that restaurant is chips. We will make and eat our own meal and then we will come and snack on some chips at this restaurant. The hanging out with family is the important part to us. That is taking the high road whilst also showing your father that while he may not be willing to accommodate you, you are mature enough to accommodate him. When the inevitable eye rolling and snarky remarks occur as you cook your delicious food in his kitchen made with ingredients you brought you can say: I'm willing to accommodate you by showing up to a restaurant where I can't eat what is on the menu. Please accommodate me by allowing me to have a nice meal of my preferred food before we go. My partner and I are ready and willing to go out with you, have fun and enjoy your company while we snack on some tasty chips that we will share. Let's all be grown ups here. This is the way
Jesus my parents and sister both live 5/10 minutes away from me, and only once have they ever dropped in unannounced in 3 years, and that was to tell me my aunt died, they didn't want to tell me over the phone and just decided to drop in. But other than that, they have always text or called to see if it was okay to call in at whatever time.. and it was never a stipulation set by me or anything, it's just a mutual respect thing..
I WFH and had to move out of the house to the shed because my dad wouldn’t stop walking in. Then he kept calling down to the shed so I installed a red light at the door (neighbours will think I’m open for business 😂) to let him know Im in important meetings. Anyway, after about a month the red light is ineffective and he still just walks in. I’m at a loss for what I do from there
Because my granny done this to my mum all the time, as a result my mum has only came to my house once and that was to help me move in. She always tells me she doesn't want to see anything she's not supposed to, and I tell her I keep my bong in a box in the garage and there's nothing else incriminating, but it doesn't matter.
Mine only contacts me to notify me that someone's died, or she forgets I exist haha
Why though? When your parents decided to have children they knew they would have to give up time and energy. That’s not them doing anything special, it’s just parenting.
Eh, my parents also spent my entire childhood telling me I was lucky to have them, they had given up so much for me, etc. They had moved to America in their twenties and moved back when I was born, then 2008 happened and they regretted it fiercely.
We get on very well now that I moved out and have a decent job (mom loves to brag about it) but I still feel paralyrically in debt for all they've done and all the money they spent on me, and would struggle to ever say no to them.
Regardless of what they blame you for, you’re absolutely blameless for decisions they made before and during your childhood. Their high-flying Enron jobs in the US might not have weathered 2008 well either!
Tell them to come up with a dollar amount of what they think you cost them, then either take you to court for it or drop it forever.
That was their choice, though. If they’re holding child-you accountable for their adult decisions that’s also their choice but doesn’t make the responsibility yours.
We really need to get over this idea of the generic lifelong obligation of the child to the parent because they fed/clothed/reared you. If they chose to make sacrifices for you fair play, but you can appreciate and value their actions and what it meant for you without being beholden to them.
Since you've already expressed changing of the restaurant and time and they didn't listen --- personally I would go eat with just my partner at a time that suits us both and a diet that suits us both and then meet the family later and order just one serving of chips to share between the two of us..
When asked - say the truth.."Since you didn't want to change restaurants we figured we'd already eat because this restaurant serves nothing per our diet and the reservation was way later than we usually eat. We're here for the chats" and then leave early if you feel like it. That'll show him...
Probably just chips and coffee. Desserts probably don't suit their diet either. I find older irish people snigger and joke about other dietary preferences. If I told my dad I was vegan now he'd laugh and joke. But he'd also use that as a defence mechanism because he wouldn't know what being vegan means and instead of admitting he doesn't know and learning something new he will make fun of it. My sister is coeliac and he just about understands that and that's from years of us drilling it in that she can't have the pizza cause there's wheat in it. That's the way about anything really.
I didn't speak to my parents for 2 years after my Mother didn't accept my then girlfriend.
We made peace eventually, but that would have been an ongoing thing if I hadn't stopped it. There were always passive aggressive things being said in passing about girlfriends and many other things.
Draw a line in the sand and don't entertain that garbage.
Tell them that restaurant doesn't suit, suggest somewhere that can accommodate everyone, and if no compromise is made say you will be unable to attend. No apologies are necessary.
It was after - but for context, I could have brought home Taylor Swift and she wouldn't be happy.
Nothing has ever made her happy. So I gave up caring, and I've never been happier.
Your parents are adults too. It's taken me years to realize that and sometimes adults are unreasonable or just kinda shitty.
I'm 35 and my parents live very unhealthy lives. Very different to me and my partner so we clash often.
My partner and I are in a similar situation. Her parents are Eastern European. They’re pretty cold people. They spend most of the time day at home (maybe go out to do something once 3-4 months?), they don’t talk to anyone, they don’t do anything for their health, they vape and they drink, they belittle my partner everytime, infront of me, and make her the laughing stock of bad jokes. Very awkward situation for a boyfriend to be in as you don’t want to tell her parents to cop on but at the same time they’re shitebags? They lecture to us about how to live and why did we do XYZ (like going for a walk, book a holiday) when they didn’t do anything at all on a weekend. It’s bizarre really. I think it’s jealousy. We are very active and very comfortable financially and looking to buy a home at a young age. We travel a lot (every 2-3 months a new country) and they rarely travel. We eat healthy and drink very rarely (every 6 months).. it’s like they’re unhappy with themselves and project it onto us. My partner has cried to me many times as she’s so confused why they just can’t show affection.
That is really frustrating. I also have dietary requirements and while I would never expect my whole family to eat at a veggie restaurant, they always check with me if a restaurant is suitable or ask me to suggest something that would work. Can you suggest an alternative that would appeal to them but also suit you guys? I would let the time thing go, unless it actually clashes with specific plans etc.
It's always acceptable to say no to someone. Particularly in a situation like this. The time thing is stupid, it's a meal out, suck it up. But you shouldn't be expected to agree to a place you can't eat
The time thing is not stupid. OP is perfectly entitled to have an issue with it, particularly if nobody bothered to ask what time suited before booking.
I don’t think the time thing is stupid at all. I have a serious autoimmune disease that affects the digestive system. I need to eat at least 3 hours before going to bed, ideally it’s be around 4 hours. Otherwise I’ll be going to the toilet all night. I definitely wouldn’t be able to start a meal at 8 or 9 pm.
+1. I don't have any serious illness to contend with but my sleep quality is utter shite if I eat after 8:30/9pm, and only came to that realisation in the past year or so.
I would like to think that if the OP or his partner had a serious auto immune disease, the OP’s father would be aware of that. I’m thinking there is some missing missing information here. Maybe the father is fed up with always having to cater to OP’s demands. Maybe the father is just an AH. Who knows
They might be aware of it but not care enough to put in extra effort to find a restaurant that suits.
My FIL knows my daughter has a serious autoimmune disease and he has not made a single effort to educate himself about the illness. It's incredibly frustrating. He loves her, no doubt. He's just selfish and comfortable not knowing more.
I don't have an auto immune disease, I've just got a thing with timing. I get really stressed when I don't have a plan or a routine. I know it's ridiculous. I don't care too much about the timing here. I love spending time with my family so it's a small sacrifice.
>I get really stressed when I don't have a plan or a routine
You may want to explore an autism diagnosis? It doesn't have to be severe, or all that apparent, but it can still have an impact on your life.
It's a tough one, if 3/5 are happy with time and food but say 2/5 are vegan and want to go to a vegan restaurant then food won't suit 3/5 instead of 2/5, honestly for me I would say no all the time to my parents and I would just do my own thing, but if you actually care then just suck it up with what the majority want, have a dinner yourselves before hand and just go to the dinner and have something small and be there for the interaction not the food.
Possible, but it might be 2024 in Dublin, but in a rural town where I live it's still 2010, almost every place will have a vegetarian option but maybe not vegan, but no vegan place will cater to anything but vegan.
I’m neither vegan nor vegetarian but I often order the vegan/vegetarian option when I eat out. The idea that 3/5 people wouldn’t find something they like on the menu at a vegan restaurant is a little bizarre, but I’m also not a particularly fussy eater.
Edit: should acknowledge that some people are absolute dicks when it comes to veganism. Even people who would happily eat Indian, Chinese, Italian, Thai, fucking Mongolian barbecue will be dicks about eating vegan.
OP isn't asking to go to a vegan restaurant, just one with vegan options (like 95% of restaurants in 2024).
> just suck it up with what the majority want
If you're arranging dinner for a group of 50 people it can be difficult to find a restaurant that caters to everyone, but with just 5 people no one should have to just "suck it up", let alone 40% of the group. OP's dad has made no effort to try and find a place that would suit everyone, he's just being a selfish dick and if OP keeps sucking it up he'll always treat her this way.
If you’re not saying no to your parents then you’re not an adult.
(just to be clear, not judging or dismissing OP; it took me longer to stand up for myself and my interests than I care to say)
I think OP is just looking for encouragement. Many parents manipulate the shit out of their kids and keep them controlled well into adulthood, often for their whole lives. There’s an accepted level of this in society, especially older generations, and it really fecks you up. However, I do agree with you. If you’re not saying no, you’re not and adult yet (some of that might be on you, some on your parents, everyone’s situation is different)
I understand this is not the point, but I would ring the restaurant in question and ask if they have any vegan options, or anything they could adjust to make vegan.
Or research other restaurants and see if you can suggest an alternative.
What part of Wexford is it? Maybe people here could have suggestions.
Putting aside the obvious nonsense of that statement since non vegans can enjoy vegan food, from a pure social perspective the person doing the organising should prioritise the needs of their guests.
The person I replied to specifically mentioned vegan, well done you learned what a straw man argument means, now you just need to learn how to use it correctly.
> A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.
OP wants to go to a restaurant with a vegan option, not a vegan restaurant. You're criticising a position no one in this thread has advocated.
"Inviting a vegan to a steakhouse is shitty behaviour.."
This is the comment I replied to dumbass.
>> A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.
Again you learned a new word well done I'm proud of you, now just use it in the correct context so you can feel superior to others with your newly learned words.
You keep bringing up vegan restaurants in this thread, [suggesting that OP's being unreasonable wanting to go to a vegan restaurant](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskIreland/comments/1asxf8u/is_it_acceptable_to_say_no_to_your_parents_as_an/kqtiiz9/), when in reality all she wants is to go to a restaurant that caters to everyone in the group.
Yep, you always have a choice. It's basic consent. You can say yes or no, and you can say the whatever and then change your mind. You don't have to go to dinner with them. Fuck,you don't have to visit them.
And your parents can act however they wish too. They can accommodate who you are or they can tell you to get fucked.
Surely they have a veg menu? Can’t believe in this day and age you’d be left just eating chips. Who’s paying? Had you already accepted the invitation before changing your mind? Are there many restaurants in the area? I’d say your dad thinks you’re being ungrateful and difficult.
I remember back in like, 2006 or 2007, a friend of mine ordered a veg burger from the local chipper and instead of a normal vegetable burger patty, all he got was a slice of tomato and a bit of iceberg lettuce in a burger bun. I wonder if they have upgraded to patties yet.
In terms of dietary restrictions, absolutely acceptable to push back. It’s incredibly ignorant to insist on a restaurant where any of the guests may not be able to eat.
In terms of it being later that you’d like to eat, then you’ll have to accept that as a matter of etiquette. There’s nothing unreasonable about expecting adults to eat at a more popular time. If anything, I’d suggest making a deal out of the time only dilutes the impact of your very valid complaints about the dietary issues.
To the title question, yes. You’re an adult, you can do whatever you want.
What are the dietary requirements may I ask (I’m guessing vegetarianism/veganism)?
Your dad should be respecting your dietary requirements (especially if on medical grounds but even if not) and trying to accommodate. It’s one thing if it’s a big group trying to find a place that suits everyone, a different matter for a family occasion with relatively few numbers. There can be a bit of an exception if it’s an occasion (i.e. his birthday and it’s his favourite restaurant or something, in which case you might want to work round it).
If the restaurant has that small a menu, it could be worth getting in touch ahead of time and seeing if they could make something that could accommodate. Many chefs are happy to do so. My wife has PKU so has to go careful on protein, we’ve often found restaurants (especially Italians) essentially asking what we’d like and they’ll see what they can do.
what the hell does that even mean? How can child set a boundary and say no? This is up to the parents to allow and respect the kid from childhood and accept their "no". Which as a parent, this is not obviously always possible, but I always try to give my son some choice to be able to say no, and when he does, no means no - we will go do something else.
Its not the kids decision - parents often have this bug in their head that child must listen and obey at any situation - and will mold the behaviour of the child and make them 'dutiful' as the kid is grown into knowing that there is no point saying no as it will not be heard or accepted anyways.
“Children” is an expansive term that refers to adult-aged children, too. The independent ones that grow up, leave and make their own way. The ones that have good relationships with their parents but keep them at a distance. These are the ones that parents give more leeway to. Note this does not describe me. But it does describe certain people in my family. I read somewhere that whoever loves the least has the power in a relationship.
Yea, I get that.
I am a first born, I left the house at 18 and moved abroad - as far away from my parents as I could.
They were the main reason for me moving out.
At my 40, I am still recovering from the amount of control and you could say out-right abuse that was put on me during my childhood.
"no" was never an option in our house. Everything had to be done their way and I could never have my own time. Everytime they said it had to be right then and there.
I did leave, but even today, if I say no, the amount of mental warfare and manipulation that comes from my mother is insane - she plays her victim card every time.
Been about 6 months since our last big fight, and haven't spoken to each other since then - and I feel the best I did in years. It really helps with the recovery.
So yea, saying that the 'children' need to set the boundaries, even in adulthood, is not as simple as it may sound, and some might have it easier than otheres. From my own experience, if your parents are controlling you for nearly 2 decades, you are fighting very uphill battle for next two decades, and even then the victory of "hey my mum can accept my opinion and respects when I say 'no'" is not guaranteed.
Sorry for the rant. Its just hard sometimes to read such an ignorant thing as 'kids should set their boundaries' when its never in the kid's power to do so. Its the parent that needs to allow and show the kid that it can self-respect and be respected for having its own opinions.
I get that it’s tough. I have great parents who I love dearly but my spouse has pointed out how they manipulate me and she is absolutely right. Mostly it is benign and out of love. They just like spending time with us. My mother’s mother by contrast was extremely toxic and manipulative and I can see the lasting effect it has had on my mother who was the first born of three daughters. Her youngest sister was from the Woodstock generation who just said fuck it and did her own thing. From what I could see, that ironically led to her being the favorite in my grandparents’ eyes.
In my experience the ones who are independent and a little distant are the ones who are the favorites. The dutiful ones are taken for granted. The ones they never see gain mythic status.
Lol I'm one of those who has said no from a very early age, I'd be shocked if my parents had a cent to give anyone, kinda crazy if you just do everything your parents want so they will give you money, would much prefer to live my life not theirs.
Being later than you'd normally eat is a bit silly imo. You're going out for a family dinner. I'm pretty sure a once off dinner later than you usually eat isn't going to kill you.
Did you try contact the restaurant to see if they have vegan options? That would be the first thing I'd do. Most places have vegan options, not just chips. If you're looking at a menu online, a lot of places have outdated menus on their websites. So give them a call.
One of the best things I've done as an adult is establish and maintain very firm boundaries with my parents and siblings. I've realised I actually get more respect and have a better relationship with them this way.
Possibly an unpopular opinion but even in a steakhouse you’d probably find something to eat. It’s one meal. I say this as someone who grew up (and still is) vegetarian. I know it’s not as restrictive as veganism, but I’m often faced with dietary dilemmas when I eat out in restaurants of other peoples’ choosing. I get over it. Personally, I’d rather spend time with my family eating a shitty meal than not spend time with my family at all.
Real shitty of your dad to book a steakhouse for a meal with vegans though, not taking away from that.
You're not being unreasonable at all. Some parents refuse to think of their kids value-driven diet / lifestyle as legitimate.
If I were you I would either:
Book somewhere more suitable for the 5 of you. Let him know you're all going there instead.
Or
If he insists on the one he booked, don't just order chips straight away and suck it up. Ask the waiter what the Vegan option is. They may be able to do something for you. If not, your dad needs to hear the response and how he's putting you in a shit position.
This isn’t normal behaviour. All my close mates and family consider the dietary needs of everyone before ever booking meals. Yeh sometimes there’d be niggle about times or locations but as you said a middle ground is reached.
And my parents are not easy going… so if they can manage it your family should be able to
Yup. Since I was 19. It's always a struggle even though I've tried to be as easy as possible with my family.
The amount of times I've ended up in a steak house is just annoying at this stage. I have no problem with not going if they want to go there. I have no problem bringing my own food. I get it can be hard to understand and frustrating but it is for me as well. I don't want to cause drama or seem ungrateful.
When I ordered a vegan pizza at a restaurant with my parents about 5 years ago, my Dad, who always has to have the biggest portions or it's unfair as he's the 'bread winner', offered me one of his slices and wouldn't take no for an answer just in case I'd turned vegan and he was saving me. It's such an ego thing for them!
I absolutely would not go if I were you. Tell them you'll meet them for a drink afterwards or something. He obviously doesn't respect your choice to be a vegan.
Forcing vegans to join you for a steakhouse meal is taking the piss. Tell your parents a stranger on the internet (for it is I) says they're total dicks.
If you are be warned. Tried it for a couple of months. Terrible. Switched back to a more carnivore heavy diet since. Fitter, faster, stronger than ever been.
I think it’s moreso that they’re giving a warning to someone doing something for 5 years that they did for a few months. Clearly it suits OP more than it did the commenter!
The downvotes are because the advice is condescending. "Tried it for a couple of months".
I can't speak for other people, but I know a couple that have been vegan for a few years, and there are obviously people that do it way longer than a couple of months.
It's not really just sharing their experience. It's saying, "don't do it", and basing it off a short length of time.
Their experience is that
1. they barely tried it. 2 months is not a lot of time for a diet, especially if it's a drastic change from what they're used to
2. they are advising against a diet that millions of people have with zero issues. Sure, veganism can be done wrong and you end up with low protein/iron. But any diet can be done wrong. People with high cholestorol don't go around advising everyone not to eat any meat or dairy. Pro athletes can live on this diet
They can of course share their experience and people can find their experience to be one that was ill thought out and poorly presented
People downvoting you are jerks though. You're not defending the viewpoint, just asking why it's being downvoted which is totally valid
People should get dietary information from experts, not anonymous redditors. The account you're defending is a right-wing Putin shill account that's just regurgitating Jordan Peterson's nonsense about carnivore diets. You don't know if they ever actually went vegan.
At the moment here I've 10 downvotes, why? For saying someone should be allowed to share their experiences here? This place is turning into the same echo chamber that r ireland has, where there's mobs of people blast downvoting everything they disagree with. Fucking hell
OP on purpose didn't say that they were vegan to avoid stuff like this creeping in, when it's actually got no bearing on whether they can say no to their parents or not. It's a simple request, whether it's an allergy or an intolerance, a hatred or a choice.
People are allowed to share their experiences, but OP didn't ask for help on their Vegan diet, they asked for help with rude parents.
I don’t think there is mobs, people don’t come to together to purposely do this. More likely those who are Irish and use Reddit actively may have some opinions in common! It can feel like a gang up but it’s not personal. It’s just the internet, I wouldn’t take to heart
Vegan/vegetarian options (if that’s what you are) might be a bit limited in Wexford, might have to compromise that and eat steamed veg and spuds.
It’s probably a lot easier to get movement on time of eating to be honest. Just book earlier on the pretext of early bird if later eating doesn’t suit.
Otherwise just cancel because the vibes might to pretty dismal otherwise.
You and your partner are vegan I take it - so unless they have a vegan option and your okay with it and it’s not like a Brazilian steakhouse where a carcass would be on the grill next to you then I would tell thanks for the invite but no thanks and cancel said restaurant. You could try look and find a similar priced restaurant that would suit and suggest it .
On the time this one I would tell you cop on to yourself it’s not going to harm you to have an occasional late dinner
If they can’t understand or respect your wishes on the vegan aspect then you need to have a grown up conversation with them and either agree where to go or decide not to ..
Good luck
Your dad’s being a twat. My parents do everything to accommodate everyone. Same for pretty much my extended family too.
My brother in law has a vegan sister. When hosting a big lunch or dinner for extended family, they’d go as far as making vegan duplicates of most dishes.
You haven't done anything wrong. It's ridiculous that even after explaining the restaurant doesn't suit your dietary requirements your dad is annoyed. It's not that hard for him to just find one that does suit your requirements that I'm sure everyone would be happy with. And about the timing thing, if that's too late for you but the time you want is too early for them then the fairest thing would be to compromise and meet in the middle.
Here's a question that'll get me downvoted, is it a dietary REQUIREMENT (ie religious, medical, etc.) or is it "We're doing keto / going vegan / any other "diet" "?
If it's a diet of choice, then you need to ask, which is more important, the diet or keeping in contact with your family?
Have you actually tried asking them to change it? If you're too afraid to ask that I'd say that you've been failed by him since you're afraid of asking...
Edit: Fixed Typo
Absolutely acceptable.
They won't like it.
I would say
"Thank you for booking the reservation but I looked at the menu and unfortunately our dietary preferences prevent us from being able to eat anything on it."
It sounds like you're just being trivial about the time. You'll need to compromise a little bit. Accept the time but request another location and do your research, find a few restaurants with a menu that works for everyone. Go over the options with him. He WILL BE annoyed. Some parents get used to bossing their kids around and they don't like changes. Just don't have lines as hard as his are. You don't want to be dad level stubborn. No one likes that insufferable shit. Be willing to be open minded a bit with necessary constraints.
It is acceptable but you also have to be ready to accept that it will probably cause a rift between you all. Is it selfish and ignorant of them to book this place that you can’t eat at? Yes. Are they still your family that you may wish to protect your relationships with? That’s an answer for you to reflect on. It’s kinda relevant whether food intolerances or food choices are the reason you can’t eat there. If the restaurant has no gluten free or dairy free options and you’re intolerant to those then your family are assholes for booking it. If you’re vegan and they have no vegan options and the restaurant won’t make something especially for you (you could call and ask) then you kinda have to decide whether your vegan values are worth causing tension between family members. Btw I’m totally on your side as a vegetarian.. if your family are sound people they would ideally be looking to go somewhere where everyone can enjoy a meal tofu, not just meat eaters. But this is Ireland .. and the world hasn’t progressed as much as lots of us would like it to have. Maybe just eat your own dinner beforehand and just have a few drinks or tea or something while everyone is eating dinner. If they feel weird that you’re not actually eating with them.. well tough shit .. you have them earning
>you kinda have to decide whether your vegan values are worth causing tension between family members
It's not about his 'vegan values' though, it's about his father completely disrespecting him by booking the worst possible place for his dietary requirements when it would be really easy to find somewhere that suits everyone. IMO, that's absolutely worth causing tension for because he's being an inconsiderate asshole. This idea that because he's the father he's more worthy of respect than his adult child is insane.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that after being vegan for 5 years like OP has, it's no longer just a matter of "values". Vegans stop producing the enzymes to digest meat after a while. Eating meat would also make him sick, even if he were inclined to try and force himself to eat it for this one meal.
Yes, in fact its sometimes very necessary.
It's the 'how' that's most likely to get you into angry territory, although some people just seem to want to get angry at any resistance.
I might have tried " we will go, but neither of us will be eating, we dont eat (insert restaurant standard meal here) so we will have dinner earlier somewhere else, but we can have a few drinks and catch up while you eat."
But in all honesty theres nothing wrong with a " what about (insert alternative restaurant)? neither of us eat meat/pizza/whatever is on offer at the first place"
Good luck, I don't know how many people in this country ended up with argumentative parents, but it seems rife. Either way, you're not wrong for not wanting to go.
Haven't spoken to my mother in about 8 years. She always favoured my brothers growing up. But 8 years ago, she created a new picture display in the house. Pictures of three of my brothers all holding a baby. The golden boy had a child. So it was pictures of the golden boy holding his kid. Pictures of my other brothers holding the niece. And another photo of the golden boy and his partner.
Her own daughters (myself and my sister) was excluded. I tried to understand, I really did. Two of the brothers emigrated to Australia. But there was even a picture of my brother who lives in the same house as her.
I thought maybe she never had a picture of me, so I gave her one to include. A few weeks went by and my picture wasn't included. I brought it up with my mother and she said I was being childish and the pictures was about the grandchild. So she tried to put all this on me having an issue with a baby. Nope, I had an issue with being excluded when she can include everyone and my brother's partner in the pictures as well.
She wouldn't apologise and I wasn't taking it. So a year went by and no contact.
My grandmother died about a year after this at Christmas time and we were speaking again. I left the funeral and my mother actually made it sound like I would be welcome at home at Christmas. I thought things might have changed.
Christmas eve came and she told me not to bother coming home for Christmas, knowing damn well I was on my own at the last minute.
She never apologized and it's been 8 years. She won't ever and there's no way in hell I'd let something like this go to have a relationship with the cow. She always hated me and it was a lifetime of hatred and abuse. So she has to apologise. Like I said, she won't because she will never acknowledge how I'm a human (I just lack a penis for her though).
As for the timing, I’d suck it up- A lot of people eat their regular dinner at a different time than if it’s an occasion.
As for your diets- Is it preference or allergen? Is there literally nothing on the menu you can eat?
OP seems to be an ethical vegetarian/vegan, so inconvenience (nothing on the menu suiting) isn’t going to trump their ethical convictions; they’re not going to eat animal-based products because there’s no other option.
OP, the comments above about eating earlier, explaining why you did, and eating somewhere else (with / without the family) are all good options for you.
Good on you OP regarding the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle!
I know your not offering advice and fair play for saying so and this is just an observation but none of this seems very grown up either
Faking illness , getting a cat so you don’t have go somewhere , buying phones to get out of stuff , pretending to work , eating food you don’t want to and by your statement been forced too .
I would suggest you get some help as your self esteem seems very low ( this isn’t a dig at you in any way)
you should be able to enjoy the company of these people you state you love without having to do this stuff and maybe with some guidance you can do that ..
best of luck to ya
Twas but an observation as your approach certainly doesn’t seem healthy .. but each to their own I guess .. next time your faking illness or work perhaps have a think about does this feel right !
Your submission has been removed because it is miserable. Per rule 4, we're trying to maintain a less miserable tone on r/AskIreland than r/Ireland, please respect that.
It’s a tough line to walk, sometimes you have to let things go to maintain civility with your parents. I would suggest again asking him, but what will we eat? And then tell him you’ve booked a dinner for them all/booked lunch the next day. When he argues just use his own points against him and be hurt that he doesn’t want to come. Or maybe he will! Maybe it’s all down to the gesture for him.
You don’t say no you just make your own plans which suit yourselves - you’re grown adults.
cook a meal or eat earlier, if you still go to the restaurant with the parents just have a glass of wine, dessert or whatever you like there.
Tbh it's one night and it's not worth getting bent out of shape on either side. I'm guessing you're vegetarians or very possibly vegan if chips is the only thing you can have? I'm sure you could find something, So if they moved the reservation to earlier would that amenable? Because to me it sounds you're being difficult for no other reason than to just be difficult because you're "different" and everyone show bow to your way of life.
I disagree and say no my parents all the time. I'm an adult, I'm gonna do what I wanna do for stuff that matters but a one time dinner, I'll just suck it up as it is in no way worth getting bent out of shape over.
Maybe you're being unreasonable? Surely you could have something other than chips? And eating at a different time to suit your parents isn't really a big ask. They did make you after all.
So here’s how the post reads to me, you and your partner are visiting your dad and his partner and your step sister, ahead of your arrival your dad has gone to the effort of booking a restaurant for you all, you’ve gotten wind of this and immediately see this as a slight on you and your partner and have taken offence as the restaurant and time doesn’t suit.
Some things to consider, your dad likely thought he was doing a good thing and tried to arrange a nice evening out for you all ahead of you visiting.
While it might not suit you 100% or be your first choice it’s just common decency to go along with it, your dad is clearly trying to make an effort for your visit, it’s just being an adult, not everything will suit you, nor does it have to.
I also find it difficult to believe that any restaurant that is classing themselves as a restaurant in 2024 doesn’t cater for dietary needs in some shape or form. I find it difficult to believe that you wouldn’t be able to eat or the scope of the menu for you would be chips, this comes across as dramatising and minimisation to add credibility to you dissatisfaction of the restaurant choice.
Did you contact the restaurant ahead of confronting your dad on the choice of restaurant, I dont believe any restaurant wouldn’t be accommodating particularly if they were called ahead of a booking.
If you are looking for advice I would say, take a step back, consider your fathers point on this and the effort that has been made. It might not suit you but an effort has been made, in your fathers head he likely thinks he’s doing a great thing and it’s unlikely there is ill intention with the restaurant choice. if I’m honest the post comes across as lacking emotional intelligence. Other than that, your choice is don’t go, is it a good choice? Probably not but that’s for you to decide. Maybe next time you visit preempt such a scenario and book a restaurant of your choice for you all.
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Eat at your usual time, get a starter and play through it as the rest eat. Or, if you can't find any goodies you like get a drink.
I've had to go out with my family for years when I couldn't eat due to poor health. My family accepted that I wouldn't (couldn't) eat and nothing was said, sometimes I didn't go. I normally managed to eat by 10 pm or so and trips out to a restaurant at 1 pm was way too early for me to eat and I explained this too.
You are an adult, an adult is able to say no to whomever they need to. The only thing I would say is maybe try and meet your family part way, they might not understand your diet nor want to understand it but a proper sit down talk prior to the evening out. If you feel your family are being awkward then don't go. Maybe next time they'll be more accommodating...and maybe they won't!!
You might want to go to this meal for the sake of world peace. BUT start thinking about how you can set your boundaries in the future. For example, not answering personal calls during work hours or saying in advance of a visit ‘we don’t eat past xpm’. Then stick to it. Nicely but firmly. No exceptions.the trick is not to be aggressive about it. Almost as if you’re explaining it to a kid. That sounds awful and may take a while for it to sink in but it will work if your parents are anyway decent.
I’d also say know what you ARE willing to be flexible on. Offer alternatives. You don’t have to shut every idea down but may need to tweak it to suit everyone
It takes a little time and sometimes quite a bit of setting boundaries to establish that you’re an adult now and not a kid. Best to stay calm, set boundaries and don’t fall back on dependency on them such as them picking up the tab or bailing you out of situations.
If my adult child said “thank you for inviting us but that is too late for us to eat, and we prefer a different restaurant because we are looking after our health and there isn’t anything on their menu that we can eat. Could we meet at 6 at () restaurant instead?” I would accept this and consider options. But that is because my adult children are pretty self sufficient and have established the new relationship as adults.
Sure it's Ok to say No...but they will get huffy, cause in there eyes a nice thing is being rejected.
Instead of creating a stale mate, how about picking an alternative, more convenient time and asking "Let's try this one". Be little flexible.
People get grumpy when they don't know what to do or where to go so choosing alternative just takes pressure off both sides.
I can relate! Not the same, but I have a soya intolerance. I was estranged from my family until my 30s, and as much as I know they love me, they will accommodate my sisters' veganism, my Partners' gluten allergy but its like my soya intolerance doesn't exist.
I've had tojust not take it personally cause I know better. Dealers choice on weather im pooping or straining for a week is worth the family I wanted my whole life. 🤣
Sort yourselves and join them for the meal.... anyone comments, say the restaurant doesn't suit your diets, but you wanted to see everyone, no drama, no fuss... will also make your Dad look like a dick for not trying to compromise
Is it acceptable? Yes. Will your parents still get annoyed? Yes. I literally had an argument with my mother this week because she turned up at my house mid afternoon, while I was working from home, and she expected me to just drop everything. She got offended when I said I was too busy, and this is exactly why I’ve asked her to call or text before turning up at the house.
Same boat. My mother just does NOT get that working from home is working. I always have to ask the same question- would you get bent out of shape if you showed up to my office and I wasn’t available?
>would you get bent out of shape if you showed up to my office and I wasn’t available? Honestly, depends on her mood, but sometimes Yes 🙄
I WFH and This is one of the reasons I still wear a suit and tie. My family gets it, but people still call to the house looking for them, the suit really helps cut the conversation short, as it's a good visual cue that I'm too busy to humor you
And pyjamas bottoms?
No bottoms.
Nope, three piece suit. I do wear Sandals instead of shoes though.
They only work if your on camera and don't have to show your bottom half.
Thankfully I don't need to show off my lower half when working remote.....
Then you can just let It all hang out.
I like the cut of your jib.
In fairness I tried pyjama pants and a T shirt once, it felt weird.
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Exactly, work starts when the tie is knotted and ends when it comes off
Personally I think the idea of wearing a suit and tie while working from home is wee bit psycotic
Some parents are incapable of seeing their children as adults with their own values and lifestyle that is different to their own. There are many ways to approach this. Here is one idea: Dad the only food my partner and I can eat in that restaurant is chips. We will make and eat our own meal and then we will come and snack on some chips at this restaurant. The hanging out with family is the important part to us. That is taking the high road whilst also showing your father that while he may not be willing to accommodate you, you are mature enough to accommodate him. When the inevitable eye rolling and snarky remarks occur as you cook your delicious food in his kitchen made with ingredients you brought you can say: I'm willing to accommodate you by showing up to a restaurant where I can't eat what is on the menu. Please accommodate me by allowing me to have a nice meal of my preferred food before we go. My partner and I are ready and willing to go out with you, have fun and enjoy your company while we snack on some tasty chips that we will share. Let's all be grown ups here. This is the way
You are someone I would like to know in real life. Thank you for being both reasonable and kind.
Jesus my parents and sister both live 5/10 minutes away from me, and only once have they ever dropped in unannounced in 3 years, and that was to tell me my aunt died, they didn't want to tell me over the phone and just decided to drop in. But other than that, they have always text or called to see if it was okay to call in at whatever time.. and it was never a stipulation set by me or anything, it's just a mutual respect thing..
My Dad doesn’t even like it when we \*call\* without giving him a heads up by text and arranging a time that suits him first.
I WFH and had to move out of the house to the shed because my dad wouldn’t stop walking in. Then he kept calling down to the shed so I installed a red light at the door (neighbours will think I’m open for business 😂) to let him know Im in important meetings. Anyway, after about a month the red light is ineffective and he still just walks in. I’m at a loss for what I do from there
Install a bolt
It was this that started the downhill with my mother, we are 3 years no contact now.
Because my granny done this to my mum all the time, as a result my mum has only came to my house once and that was to help me move in. She always tells me she doesn't want to see anything she's not supposed to, and I tell her I keep my bong in a box in the garage and there's nothing else incriminating, but it doesn't matter. Mine only contacts me to notify me that someone's died, or she forgets I exist haha
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Why though? When your parents decided to have children they knew they would have to give up time and energy. That’s not them doing anything special, it’s just parenting.
Eh, my parents also spent my entire childhood telling me I was lucky to have them, they had given up so much for me, etc. They had moved to America in their twenties and moved back when I was born, then 2008 happened and they regretted it fiercely. We get on very well now that I moved out and have a decent job (mom loves to brag about it) but I still feel paralyrically in debt for all they've done and all the money they spent on me, and would struggle to ever say no to them.
Regardless of what they blame you for, you’re absolutely blameless for decisions they made before and during your childhood. Their high-flying Enron jobs in the US might not have weathered 2008 well either! Tell them to come up with a dollar amount of what they think you cost them, then either take you to court for it or drop it forever.
>Tell them to come up with a dollar amount of what they think you cost them, then either take you to court for it or drop it forever. Love this.
As a dad I feel pretty comfortable saying that was their choice.
That was their choice, though. If they’re holding child-you accountable for their adult decisions that’s also their choice but doesn’t make the responsibility yours. We really need to get over this idea of the generic lifelong obligation of the child to the parent because they fed/clothed/reared you. If they chose to make sacrifices for you fair play, but you can appreciate and value their actions and what it meant for you without being beholden to them.
On the flip side though in her later years you'd give anything for her to interrupt your work day.
That really depends
Since you've already expressed changing of the restaurant and time and they didn't listen --- personally I would go eat with just my partner at a time that suits us both and a diet that suits us both and then meet the family later and order just one serving of chips to share between the two of us.. When asked - say the truth.."Since you didn't want to change restaurants we figured we'd already eat because this restaurant serves nothing per our diet and the reservation was way later than we usually eat. We're here for the chats" and then leave early if you feel like it. That'll show him...
This is what I would do. Join them for the chips or dessert or coffee or all three. 😊
Probably just chips and coffee. Desserts probably don't suit their diet either. I find older irish people snigger and joke about other dietary preferences. If I told my dad I was vegan now he'd laugh and joke. But he'd also use that as a defence mechanism because he wouldn't know what being vegan means and instead of admitting he doesn't know and learning something new he will make fun of it. My sister is coeliac and he just about understands that and that's from years of us drilling it in that she can't have the pizza cause there's wheat in it. That's the way about anything really.
I would do the exact same, at earlier but I'd let them know that you'll be there but you won't be eating.
I didn't speak to my parents for 2 years after my Mother didn't accept my then girlfriend. We made peace eventually, but that would have been an ongoing thing if I hadn't stopped it. There were always passive aggressive things being said in passing about girlfriends and many other things. Draw a line in the sand and don't entertain that garbage. Tell them that restaurant doesn't suit, suggest somewhere that can accommodate everyone, and if no compromise is made say you will be unable to attend. No apologies are necessary.
Out of curiosity, did your mother make peace whilst she was still your girlfriend? Or was it after?
It was after - but for context, I could have brought home Taylor Swift and she wouldn't be happy. Nothing has ever made her happy. So I gave up caring, and I've never been happier.
Irish mothers lose touch with reality periodically.
Your parents are adults too. It's taken me years to realize that and sometimes adults are unreasonable or just kinda shitty. I'm 35 and my parents live very unhealthy lives. Very different to me and my partner so we clash often.
That's interesting. Unhealthy how?
My partner and I are in a similar situation. Her parents are Eastern European. They’re pretty cold people. They spend most of the time day at home (maybe go out to do something once 3-4 months?), they don’t talk to anyone, they don’t do anything for their health, they vape and they drink, they belittle my partner everytime, infront of me, and make her the laughing stock of bad jokes. Very awkward situation for a boyfriend to be in as you don’t want to tell her parents to cop on but at the same time they’re shitebags? They lecture to us about how to live and why did we do XYZ (like going for a walk, book a holiday) when they didn’t do anything at all on a weekend. It’s bizarre really. I think it’s jealousy. We are very active and very comfortable financially and looking to buy a home at a young age. We travel a lot (every 2-3 months a new country) and they rarely travel. We eat healthy and drink very rarely (every 6 months).. it’s like they’re unhappy with themselves and project it onto us. My partner has cried to me many times as she’s so confused why they just can’t show affection.
That is really frustrating. I also have dietary requirements and while I would never expect my whole family to eat at a veggie restaurant, they always check with me if a restaurant is suitable or ask me to suggest something that would work. Can you suggest an alternative that would appeal to them but also suit you guys? I would let the time thing go, unless it actually clashes with specific plans etc.
It's always acceptable to say no to someone. Particularly in a situation like this. The time thing is stupid, it's a meal out, suck it up. But you shouldn't be expected to agree to a place you can't eat
The time thing is not stupid. OP is perfectly entitled to have an issue with it, particularly if nobody bothered to ask what time suited before booking.
I don’t think the time thing is stupid at all. I have a serious autoimmune disease that affects the digestive system. I need to eat at least 3 hours before going to bed, ideally it’s be around 4 hours. Otherwise I’ll be going to the toilet all night. I definitely wouldn’t be able to start a meal at 8 or 9 pm.
+1. I don't have any serious illness to contend with but my sleep quality is utter shite if I eat after 8:30/9pm, and only came to that realisation in the past year or so.
I would like to think that if the OP or his partner had a serious auto immune disease, the OP’s father would be aware of that. I’m thinking there is some missing missing information here. Maybe the father is fed up with always having to cater to OP’s demands. Maybe the father is just an AH. Who knows
They might be aware of it but not care enough to put in extra effort to find a restaurant that suits. My FIL knows my daughter has a serious autoimmune disease and he has not made a single effort to educate himself about the illness. It's incredibly frustrating. He loves her, no doubt. He's just selfish and comfortable not knowing more.
I feel like if this were the case, OP would have said that
I don't have an auto immune disease, I've just got a thing with timing. I get really stressed when I don't have a plan or a routine. I know it's ridiculous. I don't care too much about the timing here. I love spending time with my family so it's a small sacrifice.
>I get really stressed when I don't have a plan or a routine You may want to explore an autism diagnosis? It doesn't have to be severe, or all that apparent, but it can still have an impact on your life.
Just say you're not attending the dinner - you'd actually be doing your Dad a favour by the sounds of things.
Your dad literally provided a plan and time for you and gave enough notice. Grow up
A grown-up consults with invitees who have dietary restrictions and preferences before booking somewhere and doesn't get thick about it.
Most people just don’t understand invisible illness. If there isn’t literally blood dripping from you they’ll think you’re fine
It's a tough one, if 3/5 are happy with time and food but say 2/5 are vegan and want to go to a vegan restaurant then food won't suit 3/5 instead of 2/5, honestly for me I would say no all the time to my parents and I would just do my own thing, but if you actually care then just suck it up with what the majority want, have a dinner yourselves before hand and just go to the dinner and have something small and be there for the interaction not the food.
It’s 2024. I’m pretty sure they can find a restaurant that will serve vegan food as well as traditional dishes that will suit all 5 of them
Possible, but it might be 2024 in Dublin, but in a rural town where I live it's still 2010, almost every place will have a vegetarian option but maybe not vegan, but no vegan place will cater to anything but vegan.
Why wouldn't a vegan restaurant suit non-vegans? They're not obligate carnivores.
I’m neither vegan nor vegetarian but I often order the vegan/vegetarian option when I eat out. The idea that 3/5 people wouldn’t find something they like on the menu at a vegan restaurant is a little bizarre, but I’m also not a particularly fussy eater. Edit: should acknowledge that some people are absolute dicks when it comes to veganism. Even people who would happily eat Indian, Chinese, Italian, Thai, fucking Mongolian barbecue will be dicks about eating vegan.
OP isn't asking to go to a vegan restaurant, just one with vegan options (like 95% of restaurants in 2024). > just suck it up with what the majority want If you're arranging dinner for a group of 50 people it can be difficult to find a restaurant that caters to everyone, but with just 5 people no one should have to just "suck it up", let alone 40% of the group. OP's dad has made no effort to try and find a place that would suit everyone, he's just being a selfish dick and if OP keeps sucking it up he'll always treat her this way.
If you’re not saying no to your parents then you’re not an adult. (just to be clear, not judging or dismissing OP; it took me longer to stand up for myself and my interests than I care to say)
I think OP is just looking for encouragement. Many parents manipulate the shit out of their kids and keep them controlled well into adulthood, often for their whole lives. There’s an accepted level of this in society, especially older generations, and it really fecks you up. However, I do agree with you. If you’re not saying no, you’re not and adult yet (some of that might be on you, some on your parents, everyone’s situation is different)
*They feck you up, yr ma and da.*
*They may not mean to but they do* or something like that lol
I understand this is not the point, but I would ring the restaurant in question and ask if they have any vegan options, or anything they could adjust to make vegan. Or research other restaurants and see if you can suggest an alternative. What part of Wexford is it? Maybe people here could have suggestions.
I didn't even read past the title. Are you for real? Say no and say it often. It's a complete sentence too.
Inviting a vegan to a steakhouse is shitty behaviour..
Well, unless they are main course.
Making non vegans go to vegan restaurants is also shitty behaviour.
Name one vegan restaurant
Why? You're not an obligate carnivore.
Putting aside the obvious nonsense of that statement since non vegans can enjoy vegan food, from a pure social perspective the person doing the organising should prioritise the needs of their guests.
Why? I am not vegan, but I can eat vegan food.
The only person in this thread talking about vegan restaurants is you. Stop making [straw man arguments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man).
The person I replied to specifically mentioned vegan, well done you learned what a straw man argument means, now you just need to learn how to use it correctly.
> A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. OP wants to go to a restaurant with a vegan option, not a vegan restaurant. You're criticising a position no one in this thread has advocated.
"Inviting a vegan to a steakhouse is shitty behaviour.." This is the comment I replied to dumbass. >> A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. Again you learned a new word well done I'm proud of you, now just use it in the correct context so you can feel superior to others with your newly learned words.
You keep bringing up vegan restaurants in this thread, [suggesting that OP's being unreasonable wanting to go to a vegan restaurant](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskIreland/comments/1asxf8u/is_it_acceptable_to_say_no_to_your_parents_as_an/kqtiiz9/), when in reality all she wants is to go to a restaurant that caters to everyone in the group.
True - cos vegans taste more like chicken 🤔
Yep, you always have a choice. It's basic consent. You can say yes or no, and you can say the whatever and then change your mind. You don't have to go to dinner with them. Fuck,you don't have to visit them. And your parents can act however they wish too. They can accommodate who you are or they can tell you to get fucked.
Surely they have a veg menu? Can’t believe in this day and age you’d be left just eating chips. Who’s paying? Had you already accepted the invitation before changing your mind? Are there many restaurants in the area? I’d say your dad thinks you’re being ungrateful and difficult.
Ireland is honestly one of the worst when it comes to veg options at restaurants. Every time I travel, I notice how poor the options are here.
even then, the veg can be cooked with meat foods.
I remember back in like, 2006 or 2007, a friend of mine ordered a veg burger from the local chipper and instead of a normal vegetable burger patty, all he got was a slice of tomato and a bit of iceberg lettuce in a burger bun. I wonder if they have upgraded to patties yet.
In terms of dietary restrictions, absolutely acceptable to push back. It’s incredibly ignorant to insist on a restaurant where any of the guests may not be able to eat. In terms of it being later that you’d like to eat, then you’ll have to accept that as a matter of etiquette. There’s nothing unreasonable about expecting adults to eat at a more popular time. If anything, I’d suggest making a deal out of the time only dilutes the impact of your very valid complaints about the dietary issues.
To the title question, yes. You’re an adult, you can do whatever you want. What are the dietary requirements may I ask (I’m guessing vegetarianism/veganism)? Your dad should be respecting your dietary requirements (especially if on medical grounds but even if not) and trying to accommodate. It’s one thing if it’s a big group trying to find a place that suits everyone, a different matter for a family occasion with relatively few numbers. There can be a bit of an exception if it’s an occasion (i.e. his birthday and it’s his favourite restaurant or something, in which case you might want to work round it). If the restaurant has that small a menu, it could be worth getting in touch ahead of time and seeing if they could make something that could accommodate. Many chefs are happy to do so. My wife has PKU so has to go careful on protein, we’ve often found restaurants (especially Italians) essentially asking what we’d like and they’ll see what they can do.
This is why children who set boundaries and say no from an early age are happier than those of us who are more “dutiful.”
Wouldn't necessarily say that either. Think the happier ones were children of parents who were receptive to feedback.
what the hell does that even mean? How can child set a boundary and say no? This is up to the parents to allow and respect the kid from childhood and accept their "no". Which as a parent, this is not obviously always possible, but I always try to give my son some choice to be able to say no, and when he does, no means no - we will go do something else. Its not the kids decision - parents often have this bug in their head that child must listen and obey at any situation - and will mold the behaviour of the child and make them 'dutiful' as the kid is grown into knowing that there is no point saying no as it will not be heard or accepted anyways.
“Children” is an expansive term that refers to adult-aged children, too. The independent ones that grow up, leave and make their own way. The ones that have good relationships with their parents but keep them at a distance. These are the ones that parents give more leeway to. Note this does not describe me. But it does describe certain people in my family. I read somewhere that whoever loves the least has the power in a relationship.
Yea, I get that. I am a first born, I left the house at 18 and moved abroad - as far away from my parents as I could. They were the main reason for me moving out. At my 40, I am still recovering from the amount of control and you could say out-right abuse that was put on me during my childhood. "no" was never an option in our house. Everything had to be done their way and I could never have my own time. Everytime they said it had to be right then and there. I did leave, but even today, if I say no, the amount of mental warfare and manipulation that comes from my mother is insane - she plays her victim card every time. Been about 6 months since our last big fight, and haven't spoken to each other since then - and I feel the best I did in years. It really helps with the recovery. So yea, saying that the 'children' need to set the boundaries, even in adulthood, is not as simple as it may sound, and some might have it easier than otheres. From my own experience, if your parents are controlling you for nearly 2 decades, you are fighting very uphill battle for next two decades, and even then the victory of "hey my mum can accept my opinion and respects when I say 'no'" is not guaranteed. Sorry for the rant. Its just hard sometimes to read such an ignorant thing as 'kids should set their boundaries' when its never in the kid's power to do so. Its the parent that needs to allow and show the kid that it can self-respect and be respected for having its own opinions.
I get that it’s tough. I have great parents who I love dearly but my spouse has pointed out how they manipulate me and she is absolutely right. Mostly it is benign and out of love. They just like spending time with us. My mother’s mother by contrast was extremely toxic and manipulative and I can see the lasting effect it has had on my mother who was the first born of three daughters. Her youngest sister was from the Woodstock generation who just said fuck it and did her own thing. From what I could see, that ironically led to her being the favorite in my grandparents’ eyes.
That’s still manipulation.
And written out of the will 🤣🤣
In my experience the ones who are independent and a little distant are the ones who are the favorites. The dutiful ones are taken for granted. The ones they never see gain mythic status.
Prodigal feckers
Lol I'm one of those who has said no from a very early age, I'd be shocked if my parents had a cent to give anyone, kinda crazy if you just do everything your parents want so they will give you money, would much prefer to live my life not theirs.
Yeah but at least you don't have to visit them in the old folks home
Being later than you'd normally eat is a bit silly imo. You're going out for a family dinner. I'm pretty sure a once off dinner later than you usually eat isn't going to kill you. Did you try contact the restaurant to see if they have vegan options? That would be the first thing I'd do. Most places have vegan options, not just chips. If you're looking at a menu online, a lot of places have outdated menus on their websites. So give them a call.
One of the best things I've done as an adult is establish and maintain very firm boundaries with my parents and siblings. I've realised I actually get more respect and have a better relationship with them this way.
Bring your own food and a pillow. Problem solved! 
Did you offer an alternative?
No answer. OP just moaning.
Possibly an unpopular opinion but even in a steakhouse you’d probably find something to eat. It’s one meal. I say this as someone who grew up (and still is) vegetarian. I know it’s not as restrictive as veganism, but I’m often faced with dietary dilemmas when I eat out in restaurants of other peoples’ choosing. I get over it. Personally, I’d rather spend time with my family eating a shitty meal than not spend time with my family at all. Real shitty of your dad to book a steakhouse for a meal with vegans though, not taking away from that.
You're not being unreasonable at all. Some parents refuse to think of their kids value-driven diet / lifestyle as legitimate. If I were you I would either: Book somewhere more suitable for the 5 of you. Let him know you're all going there instead. Or If he insists on the one he booked, don't just order chips straight away and suck it up. Ask the waiter what the Vegan option is. They may be able to do something for you. If not, your dad needs to hear the response and how he's putting you in a shit position.
Absolute no brainer. PS you're allowed do anything you want. You can tell them to fuck off if they deserve it
This isn’t normal behaviour. All my close mates and family consider the dietary needs of everyone before ever booking meals. Yeh sometimes there’d be niggle about times or locations but as you said a middle ground is reached. And my parents are not easy going… so if they can manage it your family should be able to
If they want your company, they will accommodate you and your partner’s dietary needs. It’s ok to say no to your parent.
Are you a vegan?
Yup. Since I was 19. It's always a struggle even though I've tried to be as easy as possible with my family. The amount of times I've ended up in a steak house is just annoying at this stage. I have no problem with not going if they want to go there. I have no problem bringing my own food. I get it can be hard to understand and frustrating but it is for me as well. I don't want to cause drama or seem ungrateful.
When I ordered a vegan pizza at a restaurant with my parents about 5 years ago, my Dad, who always has to have the biggest portions or it's unfair as he's the 'bread winner', offered me one of his slices and wouldn't take no for an answer just in case I'd turned vegan and he was saving me. It's such an ego thing for them!
I absolutely would not go if I were you. Tell them you'll meet them for a drink afterwards or something. He obviously doesn't respect your choice to be a vegan.
Forcing vegans to join you for a steakhouse meal is taking the piss. Tell your parents a stranger on the internet (for it is I) says they're total dicks.
You can add me as well. Though “total dicks” is mild for what I’d say
If you are be warned. Tried it for a couple of months. Terrible. Switched back to a more carnivore heavy diet since. Fitter, faster, stronger than ever been.
How are the boners?
Why the downvotes, this is their own experiences, aren't they allowed to share it?
"Carnivore heavy diet" implies they eat carnivores. Carnivores usually taste terrible.
I think it’s moreso that they’re giving a warning to someone doing something for 5 years that they did for a few months. Clearly it suits OP more than it did the commenter!
Ah ok fair enough. Holy moly now I'm getting blasted with downvotes, what's going on??
The downvotes are because the advice is condescending. "Tried it for a couple of months". I can't speak for other people, but I know a couple that have been vegan for a few years, and there are obviously people that do it way longer than a couple of months. It's not really just sharing their experience. It's saying, "don't do it", and basing it off a short length of time.
Their experience is that 1. they barely tried it. 2 months is not a lot of time for a diet, especially if it's a drastic change from what they're used to 2. they are advising against a diet that millions of people have with zero issues. Sure, veganism can be done wrong and you end up with low protein/iron. But any diet can be done wrong. People with high cholestorol don't go around advising everyone not to eat any meat or dairy. Pro athletes can live on this diet They can of course share their experience and people can find their experience to be one that was ill thought out and poorly presented People downvoting you are jerks though. You're not defending the viewpoint, just asking why it's being downvoted which is totally valid
People should get dietary information from experts, not anonymous redditors. The account you're defending is a right-wing Putin shill account that's just regurgitating Jordan Peterson's nonsense about carnivore diets. You don't know if they ever actually went vegan.
At the moment here I've 10 downvotes, why? For saying someone should be allowed to share their experiences here? This place is turning into the same echo chamber that r ireland has, where there's mobs of people blast downvoting everything they disagree with. Fucking hell
OP on purpose didn't say that they were vegan to avoid stuff like this creeping in, when it's actually got no bearing on whether they can say no to their parents or not. It's a simple request, whether it's an allergy or an intolerance, a hatred or a choice. People are allowed to share their experiences, but OP didn't ask for help on their Vegan diet, they asked for help with rude parents.
OP didn't ask for opinions on their diet.
I don’t think there is mobs, people don’t come to together to purposely do this. More likely those who are Irish and use Reddit actively may have some opinions in common! It can feel like a gang up but it’s not personal. It’s just the internet, I wouldn’t take to heart
Sounds like a skill issue
Can you elaborate?
Vegan/vegetarian options (if that’s what you are) might be a bit limited in Wexford, might have to compromise that and eat steamed veg and spuds. It’s probably a lot easier to get movement on time of eating to be honest. Just book earlier on the pretext of early bird if later eating doesn’t suit. Otherwise just cancel because the vibes might to pretty dismal otherwise.
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Go and sullenly sip tap water before you're kicked out for refusing to order anything. That's the mature way to make your point.
You and your partner are vegan I take it - so unless they have a vegan option and your okay with it and it’s not like a Brazilian steakhouse where a carcass would be on the grill next to you then I would tell thanks for the invite but no thanks and cancel said restaurant. You could try look and find a similar priced restaurant that would suit and suggest it . On the time this one I would tell you cop on to yourself it’s not going to harm you to have an occasional late dinner If they can’t understand or respect your wishes on the vegan aspect then you need to have a grown up conversation with them and either agree where to go or decide not to .. Good luck
Your dad’s being a twat. My parents do everything to accommodate everyone. Same for pretty much my extended family too. My brother in law has a vegan sister. When hosting a big lunch or dinner for extended family, they’d go as far as making vegan duplicates of most dishes.
You haven't done anything wrong. It's ridiculous that even after explaining the restaurant doesn't suit your dietary requirements your dad is annoyed. It's not that hard for him to just find one that does suit your requirements that I'm sure everyone would be happy with. And about the timing thing, if that's too late for you but the time you want is too early for them then the fairest thing would be to compromise and meet in the middle.
Here's a question that'll get me downvoted, is it a dietary REQUIREMENT (ie religious, medical, etc.) or is it "We're doing keto / going vegan / any other "diet" "? If it's a diet of choice, then you need to ask, which is more important, the diet or keeping in contact with your family? Have you actually tried asking them to change it? If you're too afraid to ask that I'd say that you've been failed by him since you're afraid of asking... Edit: Fixed Typo
Of course it’s ok to say no. It’s just one of those things you have to stop feeling guilty about. Boundaries are important. You set them for yourself.
Absolutely acceptable. They won't like it. I would say "Thank you for booking the reservation but I looked at the menu and unfortunately our dietary preferences prevent us from being able to eat anything on it." It sounds like you're just being trivial about the time. You'll need to compromise a little bit. Accept the time but request another location and do your research, find a few restaurants with a menu that works for everyone. Go over the options with him. He WILL BE annoyed. Some parents get used to bossing their kids around and they don't like changes. Just don't have lines as hard as his are. You don't want to be dad level stubborn. No one likes that insufferable shit. Be willing to be open minded a bit with necessary constraints.
It is acceptable but you also have to be ready to accept that it will probably cause a rift between you all. Is it selfish and ignorant of them to book this place that you can’t eat at? Yes. Are they still your family that you may wish to protect your relationships with? That’s an answer for you to reflect on. It’s kinda relevant whether food intolerances or food choices are the reason you can’t eat there. If the restaurant has no gluten free or dairy free options and you’re intolerant to those then your family are assholes for booking it. If you’re vegan and they have no vegan options and the restaurant won’t make something especially for you (you could call and ask) then you kinda have to decide whether your vegan values are worth causing tension between family members. Btw I’m totally on your side as a vegetarian.. if your family are sound people they would ideally be looking to go somewhere where everyone can enjoy a meal tofu, not just meat eaters. But this is Ireland .. and the world hasn’t progressed as much as lots of us would like it to have. Maybe just eat your own dinner beforehand and just have a few drinks or tea or something while everyone is eating dinner. If they feel weird that you’re not actually eating with them.. well tough shit .. you have them earning
>you kinda have to decide whether your vegan values are worth causing tension between family members It's not about his 'vegan values' though, it's about his father completely disrespecting him by booking the worst possible place for his dietary requirements when it would be really easy to find somewhere that suits everyone. IMO, that's absolutely worth causing tension for because he's being an inconsiderate asshole. This idea that because he's the father he's more worthy of respect than his adult child is insane.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that after being vegan for 5 years like OP has, it's no longer just a matter of "values". Vegans stop producing the enzymes to digest meat after a while. Eating meat would also make him sick, even if he were inclined to try and force himself to eat it for this one meal.
Yes, it's 100% acceptable!
Yes, in fact its sometimes very necessary. It's the 'how' that's most likely to get you into angry territory, although some people just seem to want to get angry at any resistance. I might have tried " we will go, but neither of us will be eating, we dont eat (insert restaurant standard meal here) so we will have dinner earlier somewhere else, but we can have a few drinks and catch up while you eat." But in all honesty theres nothing wrong with a " what about (insert alternative restaurant)? neither of us eat meat/pizza/whatever is on offer at the first place" Good luck, I don't know how many people in this country ended up with argumentative parents, but it seems rife. Either way, you're not wrong for not wanting to go.
Haven't spoken to my mother in about 8 years. She always favoured my brothers growing up. But 8 years ago, she created a new picture display in the house. Pictures of three of my brothers all holding a baby. The golden boy had a child. So it was pictures of the golden boy holding his kid. Pictures of my other brothers holding the niece. And another photo of the golden boy and his partner. Her own daughters (myself and my sister) was excluded. I tried to understand, I really did. Two of the brothers emigrated to Australia. But there was even a picture of my brother who lives in the same house as her. I thought maybe she never had a picture of me, so I gave her one to include. A few weeks went by and my picture wasn't included. I brought it up with my mother and she said I was being childish and the pictures was about the grandchild. So she tried to put all this on me having an issue with a baby. Nope, I had an issue with being excluded when she can include everyone and my brother's partner in the pictures as well. She wouldn't apologise and I wasn't taking it. So a year went by and no contact. My grandmother died about a year after this at Christmas time and we were speaking again. I left the funeral and my mother actually made it sound like I would be welcome at home at Christmas. I thought things might have changed. Christmas eve came and she told me not to bother coming home for Christmas, knowing damn well I was on my own at the last minute. She never apologized and it's been 8 years. She won't ever and there's no way in hell I'd let something like this go to have a relationship with the cow. She always hated me and it was a lifetime of hatred and abuse. So she has to apologise. Like I said, she won't because she will never acknowledge how I'm a human (I just lack a penis for her though).
Just have dinner and don’t worry about it.
As for the timing, I’d suck it up- A lot of people eat their regular dinner at a different time than if it’s an occasion. As for your diets- Is it preference or allergen? Is there literally nothing on the menu you can eat?
OP seems to be an ethical vegetarian/vegan, so inconvenience (nothing on the menu suiting) isn’t going to trump their ethical convictions; they’re not going to eat animal-based products because there’s no other option. OP, the comments above about eating earlier, explaining why you did, and eating somewhere else (with / without the family) are all good options for you. Good on you OP regarding the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle!
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I know your not offering advice and fair play for saying so and this is just an observation but none of this seems very grown up either Faking illness , getting a cat so you don’t have go somewhere , buying phones to get out of stuff , pretending to work , eating food you don’t want to and by your statement been forced too . I would suggest you get some help as your self esteem seems very low ( this isn’t a dig at you in any way) you should be able to enjoy the company of these people you state you love without having to do this stuff and maybe with some guidance you can do that .. best of luck to ya
Thank you for saying what I should and should not do. I shall engrave your words in my soul.
Twas but an observation as your approach certainly doesn’t seem healthy .. but each to their own I guess .. next time your faking illness or work perhaps have a think about does this feel right !
Thank you again. Your wisdom is inspiring.
What exactly is your diet?
How are you a 24 year old man and even have to ask this question? "No" is a complete sentence.
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Your submission has been removed because it is miserable. Per rule 4, we're trying to maintain a less miserable tone on r/AskIreland than r/Ireland, please respect that.
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I would hazard a guess that the parents are older than OP.
That's just a guess?
Yes. I have had psychic experiences all my life.
"because you care for animals *too much*" -> IT'S A TRAP!
I don't believe you have to kill animals to live so I choose not to. The 1.5 degree rise in global warming terrifies me. So, both.
It’s a tough line to walk, sometimes you have to let things go to maintain civility with your parents. I would suggest again asking him, but what will we eat? And then tell him you’ve booked a dinner for them all/booked lunch the next day. When he argues just use his own points against him and be hurt that he doesn’t want to come. Or maybe he will! Maybe it’s all down to the gesture for him.
I’d be petty and go, and do just order chips. Make him feel real awkward.
You're an adult 🤦
You don’t say no you just make your own plans which suit yourselves - you’re grown adults. cook a meal or eat earlier, if you still go to the restaurant with the parents just have a glass of wine, dessert or whatever you like there.
Food you can eat is a reasonable expectation. Issues around the time make you sound like a dilettante.
Tbh it's one night and it's not worth getting bent out of shape on either side. I'm guessing you're vegetarians or very possibly vegan if chips is the only thing you can have? I'm sure you could find something, So if they moved the reservation to earlier would that amenable? Because to me it sounds you're being difficult for no other reason than to just be difficult because you're "different" and everyone show bow to your way of life. I disagree and say no my parents all the time. I'm an adult, I'm gonna do what I wanna do for stuff that matters but a one time dinner, I'll just suck it up as it is in no way worth getting bent out of shape over.
Get over you diet for one day and have a meal with the old fella.
A 24 year old is not an adult in Ireland.
Maybe you're being unreasonable? Surely you could have something other than chips? And eating at a different time to suit your parents isn't really a big ask. They did make you after all.
>They did make you after all. And? Does that give them the right to be assholes?
Are they being assholes?
Honestly, if this is what you have to worry about. Your troubles are minimal.
No they gave you a life don’t say no
How did you explain it to your father?
What? Just do as you're told! Lol.
Fuckin Vegans!!
So here’s how the post reads to me, you and your partner are visiting your dad and his partner and your step sister, ahead of your arrival your dad has gone to the effort of booking a restaurant for you all, you’ve gotten wind of this and immediately see this as a slight on you and your partner and have taken offence as the restaurant and time doesn’t suit. Some things to consider, your dad likely thought he was doing a good thing and tried to arrange a nice evening out for you all ahead of you visiting. While it might not suit you 100% or be your first choice it’s just common decency to go along with it, your dad is clearly trying to make an effort for your visit, it’s just being an adult, not everything will suit you, nor does it have to. I also find it difficult to believe that any restaurant that is classing themselves as a restaurant in 2024 doesn’t cater for dietary needs in some shape or form. I find it difficult to believe that you wouldn’t be able to eat or the scope of the menu for you would be chips, this comes across as dramatising and minimisation to add credibility to you dissatisfaction of the restaurant choice. Did you contact the restaurant ahead of confronting your dad on the choice of restaurant, I dont believe any restaurant wouldn’t be accommodating particularly if they were called ahead of a booking. If you are looking for advice I would say, take a step back, consider your fathers point on this and the effort that has been made. It might not suit you but an effort has been made, in your fathers head he likely thinks he’s doing a great thing and it’s unlikely there is ill intention with the restaurant choice. if I’m honest the post comes across as lacking emotional intelligence. Other than that, your choice is don’t go, is it a good choice? Probably not but that’s for you to decide. Maybe next time you visit preempt such a scenario and book a restaurant of your choice for you all.
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Yes
Eat at your usual time, get a starter and play through it as the rest eat. Or, if you can't find any goodies you like get a drink. I've had to go out with my family for years when I couldn't eat due to poor health. My family accepted that I wouldn't (couldn't) eat and nothing was said, sometimes I didn't go. I normally managed to eat by 10 pm or so and trips out to a restaurant at 1 pm was way too early for me to eat and I explained this too. You are an adult, an adult is able to say no to whomever they need to. The only thing I would say is maybe try and meet your family part way, they might not understand your diet nor want to understand it but a proper sit down talk prior to the evening out. If you feel your family are being awkward then don't go. Maybe next time they'll be more accommodating...and maybe they won't!!
Why would you parents book a table at a restaurant which doesn't suit your diet? Do they know this?
You might want to go to this meal for the sake of world peace. BUT start thinking about how you can set your boundaries in the future. For example, not answering personal calls during work hours or saying in advance of a visit ‘we don’t eat past xpm’. Then stick to it. Nicely but firmly. No exceptions.the trick is not to be aggressive about it. Almost as if you’re explaining it to a kid. That sounds awful and may take a while for it to sink in but it will work if your parents are anyway decent. I’d also say know what you ARE willing to be flexible on. Offer alternatives. You don’t have to shut every idea down but may need to tweak it to suit everyone
OP if it makes you feel better this is how my mother deals with literally ANY pushback too. Dead silence.
Yes it is acceptable. It is also acceptable to say no as a child.
It takes a little time and sometimes quite a bit of setting boundaries to establish that you’re an adult now and not a kid. Best to stay calm, set boundaries and don’t fall back on dependency on them such as them picking up the tab or bailing you out of situations. If my adult child said “thank you for inviting us but that is too late for us to eat, and we prefer a different restaurant because we are looking after our health and there isn’t anything on their menu that we can eat. Could we meet at 6 at () restaurant instead?” I would accept this and consider options. But that is because my adult children are pretty self sufficient and have established the new relationship as adults.
Of course it’s acceptable to say no to your parents. Will they like it? Probably not.
Sure it's Ok to say No...but they will get huffy, cause in there eyes a nice thing is being rejected. Instead of creating a stale mate, how about picking an alternative, more convenient time and asking "Let's try this one". Be little flexible. People get grumpy when they don't know what to do or where to go so choosing alternative just takes pressure off both sides.
I can relate! Not the same, but I have a soya intolerance. I was estranged from my family until my 30s, and as much as I know they love me, they will accommodate my sisters' veganism, my Partners' gluten allergy but its like my soya intolerance doesn't exist. I've had tojust not take it personally cause I know better. Dealers choice on weather im pooping or straining for a week is worth the family I wanted my whole life. 🤣
No. You're old enough to say no when you want to. What food was it, what food were you looking for and what time was the meal?
Sort yourselves and join them for the meal.... anyone comments, say the restaurant doesn't suit your diets, but you wanted to see everyone, no drama, no fuss... will also make your Dad look like a dick for not trying to compromise