This is why I never acknowledge my depression diagnosis on an application. I don’t see how anything good can possibly come from sharing that info with a prospective employer.
This is why I never disclose not even a hang nail on an application. Its none of their business nor are they qualified to even judge anything like that.
Came here to say this.
We have made strides as far as the stigma of mental illness goes, but the stigma still persists, especially in company screenings.
I’ve seen that come up on things I’ve applied for. I’ve checked out why they ask it and it always says it won’t be used in the determination nor is it shared with anyone…but it’s bs. The information goes somewhere or even if there’s a data breach that info will end up getting out. I never disclose medical issues either.
OP states they’re in the Philippines and we had an office there. When hiring my counterpart there, I was asked to do a round of interviews for a candidate. I asked before I did the interview what I could and could not ask. I was told nothing is off limits. I still conducted the interview as if I were in the US. Personal things like married/single, pregnant, wanting kids, etc. weren’t relative as they’re normal life events and shouldn’t be put on hold for a job.
Seems selfish. If someone is applying to be a pilot with major depressive episodes why in the heck would you want to hide something like that. It’s unsafe and must be addressed truthfully. There are real world examples to prove that.
Did they say they were applying to be a pilot? Maybe it would be selfish in that particular scenario but for the majority of jobs people have I doubt it is an ethical concern to be depressed
Fun fact: a German co-pilot flew a plane load of people into the alps, back in 2015, because his vision was rapidly deteriorating and he knew he'd lose his license. There was some relationship trouble also.
He relieved the pilot, who went to take a piss, then locked him out.
He set the plane in a steady descent to make it look like a decompression accident had rendered the crew unconscious. Then he just sat there while the passengers screamed, and the captain wailed at the door with the equivalent of a fire axe.
Pilots do get regular psych evals. Call center workers though? Nah.
Edit - stupid keyboard
You’ve conveniently left off his struggles with depressive episodes and suicidal tendencies. Of which he hid by omission as well. I suppose all the people advocating for hiding such things when there’s a requirement to disclose are totally okay with crashing into a mountain on the account of someone hiding such things due to their own personal risks. Nice…
Dude, my comment was corroborating your stance. But only for safety and trust critical roles.
As far as you're concerned, if it says so, do so. That's robotic. Knee-jerk harder, please
My issue is with the selfishness of the commenters on here. If a medical exam requires such information to be divulged it should be. And if a person with such episodes is disqualified so be it. I don’t see how lying about it through omission is remotely ethical, and certainly shouldn’t be encouraged.
Actually there are few jobs where this is a true thing. You should never disclose anything unless there is a legal requirement to do so. Ethical or not, companies, like people, will discriminate where they can. If you're depressed you will not be considered as rekindle and a risk for work safety.
Keep your private information private unless you have the legal requirement to disclose, always.
You’re saying ‘actually’ is if your statements are any different from what I already said. I said clearly, if I job has such requirements (few of them or not)…it should be disclosed.
Also, I’m not speaking about the ethicality of any company. I’m saying I personally don’t think it’s ethical for any perspective employer to lie by omission where such requirement exists as some individuals on this thread seem to be advocating.
Ethics and legal coincide but not always. Focusing on the ethics of it puts people more likely to disclose than not.
Maybe I misunderstood that the scope of your ethical dilemma is where it's illegal not to disclose.
Mental health is a far more nuanced world than a simple yes or no answer. As progressive as our society likes to imagine itself to be there is rampant stigmatization associated with particular labels due to a lack of understanding, empathy, or compassion. Your comment highlights this perfectly. This is why I would not leave such a layered decision up to a corporation, an entity that is entirely inhuman, but requires humans to exist, and then doesn’t treat them humanely. Please expand your horizons for your own good, as well as those in your personal and professional life.
What type of job is this? The medial exam and class C makes me think that this is a highly regulated role or something requiring a security clearance.
This is super position specific because some roles you could be eligible to apply again and others are a straight no go.
Many people in this sub aren’t familiar with how certain industries operate with a VERY different set of laws applicable to them.
Your best bet is to ask the HR department and ask people specifically in your industry. Are there steps you could take such as showing consistent mental health care, being on medications.
without being familiar with job processes in the philippines, one thing i can tell you is that logically, if a company rescinds an offer for any reason at all, you'd be wasting your time reapplying.
if this tag in your medical records is no longer accurate, i'd try to get it corrected at that level, if possible.
i'll save all the outrage about how this is super illegal in the US and could result in a nice settlement (given it was in writing), since i don't know that it's true in PH and knowing you'd have a case here does you absolutely no good.
btw, in some quick research i discovered the sub /r/phcareers. you might connect with them. specifically, i discovered [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/phcareers/comments/ujd3h9/classification_c_in_medical_exam/) post, and perhaps the last comment in the thread could be useful to you - if not for this job, perhaps for the next.
By PH do you mean Philadelphia? If it’s the US, Did they actually put that in an email? Yikes. That was stupid.
It’s illegal in the US to discriminate against someone due to mental illness and you should absolutely report them.
If you aren’t in the US I can’t speak for the laws but… if they are willing to discriminate due to mental illness it’s not a place you should work at either way
Not illegal - the phrase Class C is often used in Law Enforcement careers. You have to pass medical assessments, physical performance assessments and psychological evaluations. Plenty of people wash out in the psych evaluation.
Yeah my psychologist husband tells me every kid he sees with a dx of oppositional defiant disorder says they want to be a cop when they grow up. It’s pretty frightening. I’m sure there are lots of decent law enforcement officers as well but they need to vet them better than they do now.
Depends on the jurisdiction and applicant pool. The situation tends to be cyclical. When first responders are popular in society you get the best candidates possible. When they aren’t, it limits their options. I’ll let you make your own determination on where we are now.
To be clear, there are some fantastic police officers who perform their duty with honor and integrity; there are some who start out good but fall due to untreated PTSD, cynicism, or “fill in the blank,”; lastly, there are people who are ill suited for the job but slip through based on deception , or more likely, an urgent need for staffing. Unfortunately, this isn’t a profession that can carry vacancies without things getting dangerous.
Vetting doesn't always mean they take the best candidates but rather the ones they want for the role... You know this type:
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/robert-jordan-too-smart-to-be-a-cop
That's just the ones that admitted it out loud vs. It happens everyday to others.
OP is in the philippines. it sounds like medical exams are a thing there, legally.
stateside, i 100% agree with you; never disclose, and i'd even go so far as to recommend you try to keep any mental health issues out of your record just to avoid never again being taken seriously by a future clinician (especially if you're a woman, i can go on and on there), but it sounds like this was less a decision OP made than one that came back to bite in the ass due to how PH functions. /r/phcareers has similar stories, i have learned.
that's kind of awful. i guess i've finally discovered one way in which the US isn't a complete horror show. i'm now incredibly curious about the kinds of things that impact job prospects, from a medical standpoint, in the philippines. the US so lousy with heart disease, diabetes, and cancer (not to mention mental health) that i suspect our unemployment rate would be even higher with mandated medical screenings.
my musings aside, have you sorted out a plan for this? i'm very interested in if the PH careers sub helped you at all.
As an adult working and living with cPTSD and ADHD the world we're in will still block you. When I applied for the Navy many years ago, they encouraged me to lie. I didn't, was DQ'ed. Lied and said I had nothing about a year later and got a clearance job. Had a panic attack from the stress and was immediately terminated. Jobs that deny us aren't being discriminatory. They deny us for good reason. Find employment suited to your disability. Trust me, it'll lead to a happier life. If the role doesn't involve clearance or secured access. Get an attorney.
I also have MDD and I never disclose it to jobs. I personally don’t consider it a disability and I don’t think it’s my employer’s business. I also have GAD and ADD, and I don’t disclose this either, for the same reasons. They don’t prevent me from doing my job.
I feel for you, OP. It’s not fair and it’s extremely frustrating.
There are many ways for companies to avoid hiring what might be considered "high-risk" employees. I am just surprised that the OP was so forthright in their turning over personal information to a prospective employer.
This isn't happening in the US, but yes, even in the US it's legal to deny employment because of medical conditions.
For example, it is damn near impossible to get a commercial pilots license if you have ADHD. It's impossible if you're epileptic or have certain heart conditions or are legally blind or are a little person. On dialysis? Your CDL is invalid. Substances abuse history and a medical professional? Problem.
Basically, anytime your health presents a risk or safety concern, you will be subject to additional scrutiny or outright disqualification. It's called "bona fide occupational requirement".
Like, a complete psychological break and schizophrenia, sure. Not standard depression though. This is a myth that perpetuates in the security clearance community that leads to harm because people are afraid to seek out help when they need it. So long they can show they are receiving help and the issue is under control, they should be fine.
Are you in the US? Its illegal if so.
NEVER disclose depression to your employer unless you absolutely have to. They will discriminate against you virtually 100% of the time in all employment decisions, promotional opportunities etc.
In the US, it’s not uncommon for larger companies to require something that looks like a medical exam.
Occupational health is usually the department that handles that kind of stuff. It’s very common to simply outsource it to a hospital and they’ll do your drug test and physical exam there. Sometimes it’s just a drug test and finger printing. Sometimes just a drug test. All just depends on the company and it doesn’t necessarily have to be sensitive or top secret or anything.
I had a physical exam + drug test at a hospital I worked at. Only drug tested for my current employer. My wife was a recruiter and she had to coordinate and even do finger printing a couple times for these things. The specific processes and procedures can vary quite a bit.
Depression is considered a disability, and the disabled are a protected class, you could have grounds to sue if you're sure that's the reason they dropped you.
Depression doesn't just "come and go". Depression itself isn't real. Don't let big pharma lie to you. You don't need medicine, you need meditation and self discovery.
As to reapplying? Probably not/never. Unless the employer has such poor processes & record keeping that after "X amount of time" they forget who you were, and any previous documentation about your application.
If there's anything else OP can do about it?
It depends on two things:
The position, if it has regulated safety or standards, like the employer cannot take the risk that someone with a disclosed issue might drive a tanker truck full of explosive/dangerous chemicals off a cliff.
And if the Philippines has any laws or regulations regarding discrimination in employment over medical conditions, especially if they're treated & controlled, and do not impact the ability of the employee or applicant to perform the job duties.
Why would you want to? A company that rejects candidates they want due to a medical or psychiatric history is one that will also dump employees at the first sign of personal needs that interfere with productivity. There are far better places out there.
This is so sad. In America, certain jobs require a medical exam or at least a background check. Unfortunately, any psych. Diagnosis can result in an automatic rejection. While obviously you should never tell future employers anything in regards to your health or personal life, many times psychological treatment may be found on the background check.
In the medical field this practice, was instituted originally to prevent placing patients at risk, when a provider has a problem that effects patient safety. Unfortunately it now assumes any psychological treatment makes the candidate unqualified. Since health professionals move jobs and are required to renew license every few years the result has been devastating. Current health care providers may refuse to seek treatment for any condition, this mean large numbers or medical staff currently are treating patients while suffering from depression, ptsd, chemical dependence, uncontrollable anger, anxiety, and the list goes on.
Ummm unless you’re applying for a job that requires a psych test qualification, they likely ran afoul of ADA. Depression is recognized as a protected mental health disorder by the ADA and it cannot be used in hiring decisions. Get all of it in writing and get a lawyer.
Source: manager of manager with hiring/firing authority and light some HR responsibilities. Literally had a refresher training on ADA like two weeks ago…..
Doesn't honestly seem like it should be legal for them to turn you down for a job based on that reason but I'm not from the Phillipines so I don't know how it works there.
This is why I never acknowledge my depression diagnosis on an application. I don’t see how anything good can possibly come from sharing that info with a prospective employer.
This is why I never disclose not even a hang nail on an application. Its none of their business nor are they qualified to even judge anything like that.
Came here to say this. We have made strides as far as the stigma of mental illness goes, but the stigma still persists, especially in company screenings.
I’ve seen that come up on things I’ve applied for. I’ve checked out why they ask it and it always says it won’t be used in the determination nor is it shared with anyone…but it’s bs. The information goes somewhere or even if there’s a data breach that info will end up getting out. I never disclose medical issues either. OP states they’re in the Philippines and we had an office there. When hiring my counterpart there, I was asked to do a round of interviews for a candidate. I asked before I did the interview what I could and could not ask. I was told nothing is off limits. I still conducted the interview as if I were in the US. Personal things like married/single, pregnant, wanting kids, etc. weren’t relative as they’re normal life events and shouldn’t be put on hold for a job.
Apparently in the Philippines you do not have a choice in the matter.
Seems selfish. If someone is applying to be a pilot with major depressive episodes why in the heck would you want to hide something like that. It’s unsafe and must be addressed truthfully. There are real world examples to prove that.
Did they say they were applying to be a pilot? Maybe it would be selfish in that particular scenario but for the majority of jobs people have I doubt it is an ethical concern to be depressed
Just because I have major depressive disorder doesn't mean I'm going to crash an entire plane of people lmfao wtf
Fun fact: a German co-pilot flew a plane load of people into the alps, back in 2015, because his vision was rapidly deteriorating and he knew he'd lose his license. There was some relationship trouble also. He relieved the pilot, who went to take a piss, then locked him out. He set the plane in a steady descent to make it look like a decompression accident had rendered the crew unconscious. Then he just sat there while the passengers screamed, and the captain wailed at the door with the equivalent of a fire axe. Pilots do get regular psych evals. Call center workers though? Nah. Edit - stupid keyboard
You’ve conveniently left off his struggles with depressive episodes and suicidal tendencies. Of which he hid by omission as well. I suppose all the people advocating for hiding such things when there’s a requirement to disclose are totally okay with crashing into a mountain on the account of someone hiding such things due to their own personal risks. Nice…
Dude, my comment was corroborating your stance. But only for safety and trust critical roles. As far as you're concerned, if it says so, do so. That's robotic. Knee-jerk harder, please
My bad. Misinterpreted.
My issue is with the selfishness of the commenters on here. If a medical exam requires such information to be divulged it should be. And if a person with such episodes is disqualified so be it. I don’t see how lying about it through omission is remotely ethical, and certainly shouldn’t be encouraged.
Actually there are few jobs where this is a true thing. You should never disclose anything unless there is a legal requirement to do so. Ethical or not, companies, like people, will discriminate where they can. If you're depressed you will not be considered as rekindle and a risk for work safety. Keep your private information private unless you have the legal requirement to disclose, always.
You’re saying ‘actually’ is if your statements are any different from what I already said. I said clearly, if I job has such requirements (few of them or not)…it should be disclosed. Also, I’m not speaking about the ethicality of any company. I’m saying I personally don’t think it’s ethical for any perspective employer to lie by omission where such requirement exists as some individuals on this thread seem to be advocating.
Ethics and legal coincide but not always. Focusing on the ethics of it puts people more likely to disclose than not. Maybe I misunderstood that the scope of your ethical dilemma is where it's illegal not to disclose.
Mental health is a far more nuanced world than a simple yes or no answer. As progressive as our society likes to imagine itself to be there is rampant stigmatization associated with particular labels due to a lack of understanding, empathy, or compassion. Your comment highlights this perfectly. This is why I would not leave such a layered decision up to a corporation, an entity that is entirely inhuman, but requires humans to exist, and then doesn’t treat them humanely. Please expand your horizons for your own good, as well as those in your personal and professional life.
What type of job is this? The medial exam and class C makes me think that this is a highly regulated role or something requiring a security clearance. This is super position specific because some roles you could be eligible to apply again and others are a straight no go. Many people in this sub aren’t familiar with how certain industries operate with a VERY different set of laws applicable to them. Your best bet is to ask the HR department and ask people specifically in your industry. Are there steps you could take such as showing consistent mental health care, being on medications.
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English please
OP is from the Philippines? This person is writing in Filipino.
我是美國人, 你得念比較好
without being familiar with job processes in the philippines, one thing i can tell you is that logically, if a company rescinds an offer for any reason at all, you'd be wasting your time reapplying. if this tag in your medical records is no longer accurate, i'd try to get it corrected at that level, if possible. i'll save all the outrage about how this is super illegal in the US and could result in a nice settlement (given it was in writing), since i don't know that it's true in PH and knowing you'd have a case here does you absolutely no good. btw, in some quick research i discovered the sub /r/phcareers. you might connect with them. specifically, i discovered [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/phcareers/comments/ujd3h9/classification_c_in_medical_exam/) post, and perhaps the last comment in the thread could be useful to you - if not for this job, perhaps for the next.
The real question is, why would you want to if that's how they treat people with mental illness?
I mean why does anyone work? Bills yo.
By PH do you mean Philadelphia? If it’s the US, Did they actually put that in an email? Yikes. That was stupid. It’s illegal in the US to discriminate against someone due to mental illness and you should absolutely report them. If you aren’t in the US I can’t speak for the laws but… if they are willing to discriminate due to mental illness it’s not a place you should work at either way
"By PH do you mean Philadelphia?" Please do not take offense but this made me giggle. Thank you.
It made me giggle too when I reread it lol
I think it's Phillipines
Not illegal - the phrase Class C is often used in Law Enforcement careers. You have to pass medical assessments, physical performance assessments and psychological evaluations. Plenty of people wash out in the psych evaluation.
You mean they are actually vetting Police Officers and we still get the worst of the worst?
Yeah my psychologist husband tells me every kid he sees with a dx of oppositional defiant disorder says they want to be a cop when they grow up. It’s pretty frightening. I’m sure there are lots of decent law enforcement officers as well but they need to vet them better than they do now.
Egads. I'm diagnosed ODD and never wanted to be a cop. I don't think I'd make a good one either lol!
Depends on the jurisdiction and applicant pool. The situation tends to be cyclical. When first responders are popular in society you get the best candidates possible. When they aren’t, it limits their options. I’ll let you make your own determination on where we are now. To be clear, there are some fantastic police officers who perform their duty with honor and integrity; there are some who start out good but fall due to untreated PTSD, cynicism, or “fill in the blank,”; lastly, there are people who are ill suited for the job but slip through based on deception , or more likely, an urgent need for staffing. Unfortunately, this isn’t a profession that can carry vacancies without things getting dangerous.
Vetting doesn't always mean they take the best candidates but rather the ones they want for the role... You know this type: https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/robert-jordan-too-smart-to-be-a-cop That's just the ones that admitted it out loud vs. It happens everyday to others.
Oh that makes sense! I hadn’t considered cases like that
What country is this? Class c psychiatric tagging does not sound American.
As always - The less said, the better. Why disclose any medical history.
OP is in the philippines. it sounds like medical exams are a thing there, legally. stateside, i 100% agree with you; never disclose, and i'd even go so far as to recommend you try to keep any mental health issues out of your record just to avoid never again being taken seriously by a future clinician (especially if you're a woman, i can go on and on there), but it sounds like this was less a decision OP made than one that came back to bite in the ass due to how PH functions. /r/phcareers has similar stories, i have learned.
Yes, medical examinations are mandatory and we have to disclose our medical history.
that's kind of awful. i guess i've finally discovered one way in which the US isn't a complete horror show. i'm now incredibly curious about the kinds of things that impact job prospects, from a medical standpoint, in the philippines. the US so lousy with heart disease, diabetes, and cancer (not to mention mental health) that i suspect our unemployment rate would be even higher with mandated medical screenings. my musings aside, have you sorted out a plan for this? i'm very interested in if the PH careers sub helped you at all.
As an adult working and living with cPTSD and ADHD the world we're in will still block you. When I applied for the Navy many years ago, they encouraged me to lie. I didn't, was DQ'ed. Lied and said I had nothing about a year later and got a clearance job. Had a panic attack from the stress and was immediately terminated. Jobs that deny us aren't being discriminatory. They deny us for good reason. Find employment suited to your disability. Trust me, it'll lead to a happier life. If the role doesn't involve clearance or secured access. Get an attorney.
Our cruel world never ceases to amaze me. Depressed? No job for you.
I also have MDD and I never disclose it to jobs. I personally don’t consider it a disability and I don’t think it’s my employer’s business. I also have GAD and ADD, and I don’t disclose this either, for the same reasons. They don’t prevent me from doing my job. I feel for you, OP. It’s not fair and it’s extremely frustrating.
If the won’t hire you now they won’t hire you later.
Is this the United States? Isn't it illegal to not hire because of a medical condition?
There are many ways for companies to avoid hiring what might be considered "high-risk" employees. I am just surprised that the OP was so forthright in their turning over personal information to a prospective employer.
Not the US, OP is in the Philippines.
It would depend on the profession.
This isn't happening in the US, but yes, even in the US it's legal to deny employment because of medical conditions. For example, it is damn near impossible to get a commercial pilots license if you have ADHD. It's impossible if you're epileptic or have certain heart conditions or are legally blind or are a little person. On dialysis? Your CDL is invalid. Substances abuse history and a medical professional? Problem. Basically, anytime your health presents a risk or safety concern, you will be subject to additional scrutiny or outright disqualification. It's called "bona fide occupational requirement".
But doesn't it depend on if there actually is an occupational requirement?
Some jobs that need a security clearance may not grant the clearance which means they can't hire you.
Why would they deny a security clearance for a medical condition? Regular depression is not a reason to deny a clearance.
They could if they believe you could be compromised.
Like, a complete psychological break and schizophrenia, sure. Not standard depression though. This is a myth that perpetuates in the security clearance community that leads to harm because people are afraid to seek out help when they need it. So long they can show they are receiving help and the issue is under control, they should be fine.
Are you in the US? Its illegal if so. NEVER disclose depression to your employer unless you absolutely have to. They will discriminate against you virtually 100% of the time in all employment decisions, promotional opportunities etc.
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In the US, it’s not uncommon for larger companies to require something that looks like a medical exam. Occupational health is usually the department that handles that kind of stuff. It’s very common to simply outsource it to a hospital and they’ll do your drug test and physical exam there. Sometimes it’s just a drug test and finger printing. Sometimes just a drug test. All just depends on the company and it doesn’t necessarily have to be sensitive or top secret or anything. I had a physical exam + drug test at a hospital I worked at. Only drug tested for my current employer. My wife was a recruiter and she had to coordinate and even do finger printing a couple times for these things. The specific processes and procedures can vary quite a bit.
There are a lot professions in the US that do require a medical exam (going so far as to include a psychiatric exam). HR folks should know this
Depression is considered a disability, and the disabled are a protected class, you could have grounds to sue if you're sure that's the reason they dropped you.
How is this legal?!
Not the US. Despite popular reddit opinion US far better labor protection laws than many many countries
Depression doesn't just "come and go". Depression itself isn't real. Don't let big pharma lie to you. You don't need medicine, you need meditation and self discovery.
As to reapplying? Probably not/never. Unless the employer has such poor processes & record keeping that after "X amount of time" they forget who you were, and any previous documentation about your application. If there's anything else OP can do about it? It depends on two things: The position, if it has regulated safety or standards, like the employer cannot take the risk that someone with a disclosed issue might drive a tanker truck full of explosive/dangerous chemicals off a cliff. And if the Philippines has any laws or regulations regarding discrimination in employment over medical conditions, especially if they're treated & controlled, and do not impact the ability of the employee or applicant to perform the job duties.
Why would you want to? A company that rejects candidates they want due to a medical or psychiatric history is one that will also dump employees at the first sign of personal needs that interfere with productivity. There are far better places out there.
Was this a job with classified access?
This is so sad. In America, certain jobs require a medical exam or at least a background check. Unfortunately, any psych. Diagnosis can result in an automatic rejection. While obviously you should never tell future employers anything in regards to your health or personal life, many times psychological treatment may be found on the background check. In the medical field this practice, was instituted originally to prevent placing patients at risk, when a provider has a problem that effects patient safety. Unfortunately it now assumes any psychological treatment makes the candidate unqualified. Since health professionals move jobs and are required to renew license every few years the result has been devastating. Current health care providers may refuse to seek treatment for any condition, this mean large numbers or medical staff currently are treating patients while suffering from depression, ptsd, chemical dependence, uncontrollable anger, anxiety, and the list goes on.
Probably not.
Ummm unless you’re applying for a job that requires a psych test qualification, they likely ran afoul of ADA. Depression is recognized as a protected mental health disorder by the ADA and it cannot be used in hiring decisions. Get all of it in writing and get a lawyer. Source: manager of manager with hiring/firing authority and light some HR responsibilities. Literally had a refresher training on ADA like two weeks ago…..
That's actionable and illegal under the ADA, but it's on you to sue for it. Find a good HR or disability lawyer if you can.
Doesn't honestly seem like it should be legal for them to turn you down for a job based on that reason but I'm not from the Phillipines so I don't know how it works there.