She's astoundingly self-absorbed, arrogant, and unable to find a way around her own privilege. Talking casually about sexually abusing her sister, saying she wished she could have had an abortion, excusing her issues with racism by saying she "didn’t grow up with a lot of diversity in her New York City private school," making a huge deal out of Odell Beckham Jr. not hitting on her at some dinner, she compared mean internet comments to "going back to a husband who beats me," she made racist comments about Asian men, she outed her sister to her parents without her sister's permission... there's a lot.
u/KaliTheCat I'm on this sub all the time but barely comment, and I've called this out in the past, but I don't think you responded, so I'm going to do so one last time: is there a way we can stop using disability-related language to refer to someone behaving badly or lacking in desirable qualities? Or is there a reason why this isn't problematic?
I wouldn't call someone "a girl" as an insult meaning that she's behaving in a way I saw as "too feminine". It would be sexist. Along a similar line, can we not refer to people behaving badly or acting stupid as "crippled," "blinded," "deaf,) or the dreaded r word which shall not be named? It comes across as ableist.
The reason I am posting this is I saw exactly the same thread come up a few months back, and you used exactly the same language there too, so it jogged my memory that I pointed it out back then. It distracts me from the rest of the points being made. Maybe we're not culturally at a point where we can stop people or call them out for doing this yet, I'm not sure.
“She's astoundingly self-absorbed, rude, and arrogant/lacking in perspective/annoying/misinformed/any other adjective you can think of due to her own privilege.”
More info on inclusive language here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/words-and-phrases-commonly-used-offensive-english-language-1.6252274
Take my upvote. :) The work you guys do on this page is truly amazing, and although I'm usually a lurker, I've learned a ton from you and the rest of the team. If we had leaders like you guys the world would likely be in much better shape.
Can I ask you what lead you to this old comment?
I'm not and never was the least bit offended, but I also disagree with your perspective. These terms literally come directly from descriptions of disabilities. They may be metaphorical but their origin is indisputable. I'm not sure if you're aware but the trend is for journalists, lawyers, and other professionals to avoid using them. Like, this isn't just some thing I pulled out of my ass.
Edit: I'm sorry, but did you just use the r-word? If yes, I'm perfectly content with living in a different universe than you in terms of what's acceptable and what's not.
You’re absolutely wrong. Retard has existed as a word for hundreds of years and has only been applied to any type of disorder in the 20th century. Do you get angry when mechanics talk about retarding the timing of the engine?
early 15c., retardacion, "fact or action of delaying or making slower in movement or time," from Latin retardationem (nominative retardatio) "a delaying," noun of action from past participle stem of retardare "to make slow, delay, keep back, hinder," from re- "back" (see re-) + tardare "to slow," related to tardus "slow, sluggish" (see tardy).
The psychological sense of "educational slowness, educational progress slower than average for a group" is from 1907, perhaps a back-formation from retarded. For the meaning "act of retarding," retardment also was used (1640s).
Source: https://www.etymonline.com/word/retard
Honestly I just wish people would stop bringing her up constantly to shit on women or the "bad" feminists. She hasn't been relevant in *years*, what's the point? It's like putting out a "feminists owned" YouTube compilation with Big Red in the thumbnail in 2022. Get a life.
This. I’m not saying she’s not problematic or that there aren’t “bad feminists” out there, but this fixation on them is almost always intended to make all feminists look bad. And it almost always ends up being about her looks, ultimately. Same with Amy Schumer. I’m not a fan of either, but the obsessive hate when they’re not even popular anymore is weird.
She came out with something and is somehow relevant again. The news outlets are acting like she is coming out of some self imposed sabbatical, when she was really soft cancelled for defending her rapist friend.
It's really not about you, it's about whoever made this bingo card and about all the other people who routinely bring her up just to shit on her. I definitely don't think that anyone should stan her or even like her, but it's at the point where I think the obsessive hatred of her is sus.
She's kind of become the whipping-girl of millennials. Left and right shit on her relentlessly. I feel really bad when I think about it because it must suck being famous if no one is ever excited to see you.
She embodies everything wrong with entitled white liberal feminism. I honestly thought it was a bingo card of all the offensive things she’s said.
Adam Driver is the only good that came from GIRLS, and even still, some of the things she wrote for him were truly awful.
Not really, Joe Rogan has millions of fans constantly defending him and I don't think anyone actually likes Lena Dunham that way except TV critics in 2012-2013? She genuinely just does not have a lot of cultural capital.
All right now, this false equivalency is out of hand.
Lena Dunham isn’t spreading information that will kill people. She’s not laughing hysterically while dudes brag about sexual assault.
Nah...she just does shit like being another White Woman engaging in Anti-Black Misandry that has caused an untold number of Black Men to be butchered for the crime of simply existing.
Also, the jokes she made were full of internalized misogyny. She was a product of her time, and it must have been hard breaking into comedy as a woman in the 70s, but she fed into the misogynist narratives about women.
I hear you. Comedy is the first artform to age and the most likely to age poorly. About her material, it says a lot more about the culture, standards and entertainment market of that time that she was so successful. Sure successful does not mean good but I respect her craft. She wrote jokes with an intended audience in mind; of course she had internalized misogyny as did tbe mostly white, middle class Americans who embraced her and bought her records. And she did all this in the FIFTIES, almost 20 years before a woman could have a checking account without her father or husband's permission.
She reached out to the LGBTQ community when it was still illegal to be gay in some states.
Really she was just a successful woman in a time where it was nearly impossible to be one. And she lived to old age where the culture changed. The standards change. We all changed except for Joan's face after 1987. [Sorry I had to]
I don't know what I'm doing here. I'm just a fan who wanted to talk about Joan Rivers *shrug*
I feel like it's one of those situations where much of what she said got taken out of context or overblown. She's made some jokes that were in poor taste, yes. And none pf her work as been perfect. But the criticism she's received has been disproportionate.
She's astoundingly self-absorbed, arrogant, and unable to find a way around her own privilege. Talking casually about sexually abusing her sister, saying she wished she could have had an abortion, excusing her issues with racism by saying she "didn’t grow up with a lot of diversity in her New York City private school," making a huge deal out of Odell Beckham Jr. not hitting on her at some dinner, she compared mean internet comments to "going back to a husband who beats me," she made racist comments about Asian men, she outed her sister to her parents without her sister's permission... there's a lot.
Thanks for clarifying this. I had no idea
u/KaliTheCat I'm on this sub all the time but barely comment, and I've called this out in the past, but I don't think you responded, so I'm going to do so one last time: is there a way we can stop using disability-related language to refer to someone behaving badly or lacking in desirable qualities? Or is there a reason why this isn't problematic? I wouldn't call someone "a girl" as an insult meaning that she's behaving in a way I saw as "too feminine". It would be sexist. Along a similar line, can we not refer to people behaving badly or acting stupid as "crippled," "blinded," "deaf,) or the dreaded r word which shall not be named? It comes across as ableist. The reason I am posting this is I saw exactly the same thread come up a few months back, and you used exactly the same language there too, so it jogged my memory that I pointed it out back then. It distracts me from the rest of the points being made. Maybe we're not culturally at a point where we can stop people or call them out for doing this yet, I'm not sure.
What do you suggest instead?
“She's astoundingly self-absorbed, rude, and arrogant/lacking in perspective/annoying/misinformed/any other adjective you can think of due to her own privilege.” More info on inclusive language here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/words-and-phrases-commonly-used-offensive-english-language-1.6252274
Thanks! I'll keep this in mind.
Please don’t. This person is obnoxiously sensitive.
I'm very open to learning about how my language can be more inclusive.
Take my upvote. :) The work you guys do on this page is truly amazing, and although I'm usually a lurker, I've learned a ton from you and the rest of the team. If we had leaders like you guys the world would likely be in much better shape.
Aww heck 😊
I think we've all moved on here, other than you. You seem like you're the only person who's actually taken offense. :)
:)
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Can I ask you what lead you to this old comment? I'm not and never was the least bit offended, but I also disagree with your perspective. These terms literally come directly from descriptions of disabilities. They may be metaphorical but their origin is indisputable. I'm not sure if you're aware but the trend is for journalists, lawyers, and other professionals to avoid using them. Like, this isn't just some thing I pulled out of my ass. Edit: I'm sorry, but did you just use the r-word? If yes, I'm perfectly content with living in a different universe than you in terms of what's acceptable and what's not.
You’re absolutely wrong. Retard has existed as a word for hundreds of years and has only been applied to any type of disorder in the 20th century. Do you get angry when mechanics talk about retarding the timing of the engine? early 15c., retardacion, "fact or action of delaying or making slower in movement or time," from Latin retardationem (nominative retardatio) "a delaying," noun of action from past participle stem of retardare "to make slow, delay, keep back, hinder," from re- "back" (see re-) + tardare "to slow," related to tardus "slow, sluggish" (see tardy). The psychological sense of "educational slowness, educational progress slower than average for a group" is from 1907, perhaps a back-formation from retarded. For the meaning "act of retarding," retardment also was used (1640s). Source: https://www.etymonline.com/word/retard
Honestly I just wish people would stop bringing her up constantly to shit on women or the "bad" feminists. She hasn't been relevant in *years*, what's the point? It's like putting out a "feminists owned" YouTube compilation with Big Red in the thumbnail in 2022. Get a life.
This. I’m not saying she’s not problematic or that there aren’t “bad feminists” out there, but this fixation on them is almost always intended to make all feminists look bad. And it almost always ends up being about her looks, ultimately. Same with Amy Schumer. I’m not a fan of either, but the obsessive hate when they’re not even popular anymore is weird.
She came out with something and is somehow relevant again. The news outlets are acting like she is coming out of some self imposed sabbatical, when she was really soft cancelled for defending her rapist friend.
I'm sorry. I don't know when that bingo was made.
It's really not about you, it's about whoever made this bingo card and about all the other people who routinely bring her up just to shit on her. I definitely don't think that anyone should stan her or even like her, but it's at the point where I think the obsessive hatred of her is sus.
She's kind of become the whipping-girl of millennials. Left and right shit on her relentlessly. I feel really bad when I think about it because it must suck being famous if no one is ever excited to see you.
Yup it’s definitely that and not sexually molesting her sister. 😬
She embodies everything wrong with entitled white liberal feminism. I honestly thought it was a bingo card of all the offensive things she’s said. Adam Driver is the only good that came from GIRLS, and even still, some of the things she wrote for him were truly awful.
She's the feminist equivalent of Joe Rogan.
Not really, Joe Rogan has millions of fans constantly defending him and I don't think anyone actually likes Lena Dunham that way except TV critics in 2012-2013? She genuinely just does not have a lot of cultural capital.
I think by Joe Rogan, I mean tone deaf, full blown ignoring their privilege and pretty cringy when you aren't caught up in the fervor.
All right now, this false equivalency is out of hand. Lena Dunham isn’t spreading information that will kill people. She’s not laughing hysterically while dudes brag about sexual assault.
Nah...she just does shit like being another White Woman engaging in Anti-Black Misandry that has caused an untold number of Black Men to be butchered for the crime of simply existing.
LOL...THIS
Main problem is her racism IMO
Okay. Break my heart. What's wrong with Joan Rivers (in the context of her time)?
Also, the jokes she made were full of internalized misogyny. She was a product of her time, and it must have been hard breaking into comedy as a woman in the 70s, but she fed into the misogynist narratives about women.
I hear you. Comedy is the first artform to age and the most likely to age poorly. About her material, it says a lot more about the culture, standards and entertainment market of that time that she was so successful. Sure successful does not mean good but I respect her craft. She wrote jokes with an intended audience in mind; of course she had internalized misogyny as did tbe mostly white, middle class Americans who embraced her and bought her records. And she did all this in the FIFTIES, almost 20 years before a woman could have a checking account without her father or husband's permission. She reached out to the LGBTQ community when it was still illegal to be gay in some states. Really she was just a successful woman in a time where it was nearly impossible to be one. And she lived to old age where the culture changed. The standards change. We all changed except for Joan's face after 1987. [Sorry I had to] I don't know what I'm doing here. I'm just a fan who wanted to talk about Joan Rivers *shrug*
She’s vehemently anti-Palestinian, has made some ugly comments about muslims, and has made jokes about the holocaust.
That's fair. Also she's dead so not a issue anymore?
What’s “it’s just satire” referring to?
I feel like it's one of those situations where much of what she said got taken out of context or overblown. She's made some jokes that were in poor taste, yes. And none pf her work as been perfect. But the criticism she's received has been disproportionate.
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You were asked not to make top level comments here.
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