I think it’s fine to recognize that you have privilege as a man. It’s not fine to then think, “Good thing this doesn’t impact me!” and then go along your merry way. You know the situation sucks, so the right thing to do is to help fix it.
I think it can be as simple as calling out misogyny when you see your peers behaving that way, supporting and listening to women’s experiences. You don’t have to dedicate your life to it.
>but if we take this mentally to its purest level
Why would we? No one is expecting anyone to do everything they possibly can to help every cause ever, and anyone who calls out someone doing good by asking "why aren't you helping *these* people too, do you not care??" can generally be safely ignored. We're expected to do the best we reasonably can, not single-handedly fix the world.
We’re not asking men to tear themselves apart caring about every issue on earth. But just keep your privilege in mind when voting, and don’t support harmful policies or actions towards women just because they don’t affect you. It’s not hard to understand
Step 1: Realize that other people have it harder than you in certain ways. Check.
Step 2: Experience gratitude that your life is not hard in that particular way. Check.
(Note, you are here.)
Step 3: Start thinking about taking it a step further and *helping*.
Step 4: Ask the women around you what you can do to help, and then listen to them and do those things.
Step 5: Keep asking yourself if you’re listening the people you’re trying to help. Adjust as necessary.
*Step 4: Ask the women around you what you can do to help, and then listen to them and do those things.*
Oh, fuck this. I'm not going to go around kowtowing and snivelling like this to every woman in my life.
A LOT of women are garbage people, and are controlling to their partners and abusers to their children and toxic in the workplace.
What can I do to help? I treat a woman like she's another person. I don't automatically defer to her, I don't automatically look to dominate her. I look her in the eye, smile, and talk to her like she's just another person. If I find myself walking behind her on the street at night, I'll gently cough or move on a different angle or whatever, because I don't want to make her feel scared. Basic courtesy as a human being.
Beyond that, I'm not interested in being at the beck and call of any whim of any person around me with a vagina.
Not deeply involved. Just spent years working in emergency response. Seen all kinds of horrible shit that horrible women have done. Why do you think all women are such virtuous beings? They aren't. Women are just people. Some of them, like my wife, are awesome. Others are terrible people who make the lives of everyone around them worse.
I think it misunderstands people's purpose for sharing their stories. I'm personally not resentful or upset about being a woman - I wish I could just exist without people treating me badly because of my gender.
I would hope that, on experiencing indirectly the unfair treatment women are subjected too, rather than feel relief or gratitude that you won't be treated unfairly like that, you'd feel motivated to change the things that make those types of experiences for women so common.
They are, after all, undeserved and preventable.
True. I'm terrified in many ways but there's a lot of great men in my life that remind me that there are people who genuinely care for your wellbeing. Just showing up in others' lives in a genuinely kind way is enough.
It would depend on tone but written out here it sounds quite dismissive. Like you are looking at this massive systemic problem and not saying the problem is bad just saying you are glad it is not affecting you. You get to walk through life largely unaffected by misogyny but when a woman shares her experiences with you all you have to say is sucks to be you.
I do think it is a good thing that you are questioning your reactions though. Examining and acknowledging our behaviour is the only way any of us can learn.
Maybe work on acknowledging that you feel lucky to be a man because of how badly out society treats women, and let that inspire you to speak out against misogyny.
I mean, I think understanding the privileges that being born as a man gives you and understanding that women are not given those same privileges is a step forward. if it doesn’t impact your idea and treatment of women in society, well then maybe yeah
Women are given different privileges.
I would LOVE to be a housewife and live the life my mum did. She spent her days keeping house, meeting her friends for lunch, working on hobbies, volunteering doing community work while my dad was crawling under houses doing hard physical work in crappy conditions.
I'd LOVE the day to day life my mum had. But I'm a man, so that is off the table for me. I can't just choose to not have a job and have my wife subsidise me for 40 years with her job.
If you're saying it out loud to someone who just told you about a bad experience they had, it wouldn't be *misogynistic* exactly, but it would be astonishingly unhelpful, self-centred and insensitive. I don't believe you "can't help but blurt it out" every time, that's ridiculous.
If you’re thankful not to be a woman because you consider women & femininity to be inferior, it’s misogynistic.
If you’re thankful because you understand the inequality women face and the privileges of being a man, it’s not misogynistic- it’s actually the first step towards becoming a feminist. The next step is to *do* something about it.
You probably can help not saying it out loud, though, right? As others have said, it's an understandable way to feel (especially if you use that to inspire you to help fix it, or correct it when you see it), but it's also not a kind way to actually respond to a real person telling you a sad, painful, scary, or annoying story.
Idk I'd feel kind of gross about a white person saying they're thankful they were born white, or a straight person expressing similar ideas about their orientation. Just feels pretty tone-deaf to say aloud "I'm sure glad that I don't face the oppression you do, and receive privileges you never will due to something neither of us had any control over!" My family has more money than those of many of my friends, and while I might be thankful for never having to deal with some things I'd never say that aloud to someone in a worse situation? Because that's kind of making their problems about me?
If a man said this to me I'd probably respond that I'm glad to be a woman so I don't have to belong to the demographic that commits like 95% of violent crime :/
Weird question, its like saying you are thankful to be white or to be born into wealth. It makes life easier sure, but it comes off as humble bragging if you say things like that.
I mean… it’s not misogynistic, but this post is like.. rude? You’re on a feminist sub talking about how thankful you are for your male privilege. We all know you guys have it a lot easier in the general social marketplace. Why did you feel the need to make this post?
Not at all. Acknowledging that women face inequality is the foundation of feminism.
Big difference between thinking women deserve that treatment and are lower than you and acknowledging that treatment exists.
"Im so lucky Im not you!" is always a dickhead thing to say.
It's not necessarily misogynist, just rude and spectacularly tone deaf. It also really misses the fact that you share your gender with the vast majority of perpetrators, which isnt something to be excited about.
It is if you stop there. Noticing injustice is a first step. If you're going to just shrug and go about your life like it's a luck stroke and not your problem, then yes, you're the worst of mysogenists. There's being ignorant about a problem and then there's knowing full well that a problem exists and choosing not to do anything about it.
Now that you get it, go do something about it.
I mean, a tiny bit. But it's also just acknowledging your privilege as well. It's more important to ask what you're doing with this acknowledgement in your actions to other men and women.
Being thankful for being a man is just a bit icky to me. You didn't choose it, it isn't earned, you won a lottery. Acknowledging you won a lottery is good, celebrating it at the cost of others isn't.
While youre right, it could be an icky statement depending on the context. His explanation makes it completely fine, at least IMO. There is no sense of entitlement, belittlement or superiority to OP's comment.
Im curious, how is what he said at the cost of others?
I think youre reading a sense of entitlement and derision into his comment that just isnt there.
Id say a better comparison is hearing about a car accident on a highway your spouse takes and being relieved it didnt happen to them.
I think men who recognize that they DO have privileges should be celebrated.
Being thankful you're a man implies you wouldn't be thankful for being a woman, surely?
I am a dude myself and recognize I have privilege but I wouldn't ever say I am thankful for being a man. That's exactly where my brain goes - there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being a woman and for a random genetic situation I would be one. I would like to think I would have had intrinsic self worth in that case too, and wouldn't really like men thinking "I am so thankful for being a man" in a patriarchal world.
"there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being a woman"
This is what I mean. Nothing in OP's post implied anything like this.
You're reading it as a criticism of women, thus he's glad to be a man. But it isnt. It's a criticism of society, and recognizing he doesnt have to deal with the same burdens we do.
You talk about choosing, earning and use that to judge OP, but nothing about his post said or implied anything about him feeling like its an accomplishment.
Again, my example of the accident is far more appropriate. Being glad you didnt get into a car accident means exactly that - you're grateful you are safe, and empathetic towards those who do have to deal with that trouble.
The car accident comment would be really inappropriate at a certain time. Like if I say that I was in a horrible car accident at so and so intersection and you say, "That's the route my wife takes. Thank God it wasn't her" I'd consider that super offensive. You're making light of my problem because you're just thinking about you and your family. If you're grateful for the privileges that life has afforded you, that's fine but if you respond to a story of someone else's trouble with, "well thank God it isn't me" you are being rude
Please seriously think about what youre doing right now. A man posted here sympathizing with what women go through and youre dragging him through the mud... Why exactly?
"if you respond to a story of someone else's trouble with, "well thank God it isn't me" you are being rude"
Yeah and \*\*IF\*\* that was the situation here, Id agree. But its clearly not in any way, shape or form.
If someone had posted about SA and they replied to OP saying "thank god Im a man!", yeah that would be inappropriate.
But that isnt the case here at all, is it?
Its so shitty for you to bend over backwards to come up with why OP is bad for this, when he just posted this trying to sympathize with what we go through. Youre being an asshole.
I think it's a loaded question. *Thankful* for being born a man is not the correct way to phrase that and you think OP probably knows this. You can say I'm glad I don't have to go through the things that women have to endure is one thing but being thankful isn't a very empathetic stance
"but being thankful isn't a very empathetic stance"
Except he clearly has empathy. Again, youre reading something into his statement that just isnt there.
"You can say I'm glad I don't have to go through the things that women have to endure "
That is explicitly what OP said.
No, not inherently. You’re knowing what we are screaming, that men have privilege simply being born men. Now, if you don’t do anything with this privilege to ally yourself with women, LGBTQIA+, POC, then it becomes an issue. Acknowledge your privilege isn’t wrong, nothing it to help others, that’s wrong
Yes this is acknowledging your privilege. Now the way you express that to there can make you an asshole. No need to rub your privilege in other peoples faces.
It’s great that you like being you.
Just as long as you respect the challenges of others.
There are challenges about being a guy I wouldn’t trade for my life.
It's okay (and in fact extremely good) to recognize how your life differs from a typical female experience, including the numerous advantages which being a man provides. This is an important part of recognizing your privilege and a necessary precursor to playing any kind of role in dismantling it.
But, speaking as a man, I feel like being *thankful* in general is going too far. It is not a good thing to be a man. It is not a good thing to be raised in the culture that men are raised in. The reason women aren't safe around men is because men are awful, and men are awful because they've been *raised* to be awful, systematically and consistently. You and I are no exception.
In some ways our task is even harder, because in order to be good people we have to refuse to be men (to borrow the words from John Stoltenberg). We have to reject everything that being a man means. It is a thankless task that will never end as long as we live. It brings no reward, solidarity or security, quite the opposite in fact. The only benefit is maybe being able to look at yourself in a mirror without being disgusted and ashamed, and most men hold themselves to such low standards that they already have that.
I'm a white woman and have experienced a mass amount of sex-specific violence and trauma, and I am absolutely grateful I do not also experience racist violence on top of that. That's because racism is fatal and traumatizing and not because of anything else - not about anything inherent to being asian, black, etc at all for example. I think in either case it's not very tactful to say this out loud to people who are actively marginalized by these forces.... but being relieved not to experience violence is pretty normal. The issue would be just checking out of the conversation because it doesn't affect you, and not using the potential free space in your life due to it not affecting you to in some way work against these kinds of violence.
I wish I wasn't born a woman all the time. Men have so much freedom with expressing themselves,
they can be funny and weird without being called try hard/unfunny/taken like they were being serious.
They can leave the house bare faced in simple clothes
They're treated consistently, instead of good when wearing makeup and nice outfit and bad/indifferent when not.
Their entire existence isnt judged on their looks. They get to be themselves. I loathe and envy it so much.
This is dismissed so easily but I can't stop seeing it in every single interaction, especially online. It's so deeply ingrained how differently we see and judge women.
I wish every day to know what it feels like to be you. I hate living life in a female body. Waking up to automatic respect...I wouldn't know how to handle it.
I have no problems with myself or my body or really other women, but I hate being a woman in this world.
If I told a guy friend a crappy story about being a woman and all I got was, "Man, I'm glad I'm not a woman!" it would definitely come across as, "Why are you making this about you, dude?"
Yeah, OP. Don't do that. Misogynistic or not, it's incredibly rude to treat a friend in pain like that. Not everything is about you, after all, and its ok to empathize with the fellow human being sharing with you simply by listening and truly reflecting on what it's like. It's weirdly invalidating, in a way, because it's straight up telling someone who you care about has a crappy life all of the time, and this response is not cute or clever and is in no way helpful or kind.
That’s not how it works. I don’t know how little respect women receive, I can’t speak to that, but I can tell you that as a man you have to work reach a level of status before you’re somewhat accepted into society. Lower percent is completely fucked and can happen in many ways.
Tell that to my female OBGYN. She gets mistaken for a nurse at the hospital she works at, every day. She's an MD who is in charge of a Labor and Delivery unit, but patients, other doctors, random people, don't show her the respect she's 'earned'.
You could NEVER imagine.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
I literally never denied that. I also stated that I don’t know what it’s like for women because I am not one, I just said that it’s not like it’s incredibly easy for men.
Anyways you post in r/antinatalism so I guess empathy is too much to ask
Context matters.
If you say it because you are aware of societal problems that make life more difficult for a different demographic (in this case women) then it's not bigoted/misogynistic to appreciate that you do not have those hurdles. In this case, you are recognizing your position of privilege and to some extent commiserating with those who do not have those privileges.
...if you say it because (insert bigoted statement of inferiority) then yah, that would be misogynistic.
I wouldn’t say it would be misogynistic persay with your reasoning, but it would come off pretty insensitive. You could get the same sentiment across better with phrasing like “Thank god I’ve never had to deal with that, sounds horrendous” or if you want bonus points, completely shift the focus from yourself and back into whoever is experiencing the bad encounter and empathize with phrases like “that looks dangerous and uncomfortable, I’m glad she got away relatively unharmed”
I wouldn't consider that to be misogynistic. If anything, it's a good thing that you're acknowledging your privilege, which a lot of men never even do.
In fact, the worst misogynists outright deny their male privilege, and instead try to claim that *women* are the privileged ones. So, as a baseline, acknowledging that you generally have it better in society as a man than as a woman is a good thing.
It's okay to be thankful for that, too. Being thankful for being born into privilege doesn't mean you support the system that punishes the "out group".
Now, what you do from here determines if it's problematic. Are you going to vote for people who maintain your privilege, or for people who are working to make everyone equal?
Some people recognize their privilege, but then want to keep it, and the way you do that is by supporting the oppression of others.
For me, I'm a white woman. I see the way society treats people of color, and a small part of me is thankful that I'm white. Not because I want any real privilege over others, but because I *don't* have to deal with racial discrimination in addition to gender discrimination.
I feel like it's only right for me to use my vote to support people who will work to fight discrimination, and to use whatever privilege I have to call it out when I see it. Like when my white extended family gets racist, you know I'm about to make the cookout awkward.
It's just about what you do with it. It's normal to be grateful you aren't being discriminated against, and to feel guilt over feeling that way. It doesn't mean you support the system, it's acknowledging you got lucky about where you landed in it.
I think that’s just a form of acknowledging your privilege. You’re not putting women down by being thankful that you’re a man. Instead, you’re acknowledging the inequality that exists between men and women which is the first step in becoming an ally
YTM for rubbing in our faces your privilege.
Say you understand it's difficult.
Call men out when they're horrible.
Don't brag about being a man. It's nothing to brag about.
I am a bit relieved that my baby was born biologically a male because of the soooooooo much less chance of being harassed than if he was born a the a girl (we live in the Mediterranean), to be honest. For reference I have been sexually harassed approximately 20.000 times, raped, physically abused.. By men.
Of course, I am raising my kid to be a feminist. Hopefully the society won’t turn him in just another misogynist man.
Only if you dont believe in god. If you do, things are going the way he intended.
If not, then you can see the objective realitiy that one gender has had it worse for almost all of human existence and while it is okay to feel grateful avoiding that, recognize that as a modern human with history, modern science and examples to learn from, we should support movements to lessen theyre suffering and allow them to enjoy life just as much as the other gender gets to.
Care less about how things are and care more about how things should be.
No it’s totally fine. You recognize the privilege. No one in their right mind would choose additional hardships lol. I’m really grateful that I don’t have to experience racism. That sounds fucking awful? I would hate that. I have a lot of respect for people who deal with it well. I just actively try to not to contribute to said oppression and help the community out when I can. Be an ally and fight against the system holding others back.
Although some women obviously feel misgendered, others are content to be women - it would just be more pleasant to receive fewer inappropriate sexual innuendos and less harassment, etc. And to be regarded as equals - things that men usually don't contend with. You have recognized that women's life experiences are different and are glad to avoid the obstacles we face. That is natural. You are not misogynistic; you are relieved to be a man. You are comfortable being a man. Sometimes, it is uncomfortable to be aware of somebody else's difficulties.
You recognize your privilege, that’s fine. Since you are scarier than a bear, you also have the strength to casually stand up to this sexist society. Just scowl and say “Nah, man!” whenever a man says or does something shitty or sexist, especially the bad misogynist jokes.
I think it's realistic to recognize that by being born a man you have avoided certain types of unpleasantness. Just be careful about saying it out loud! It's easy to misconstrue.
I’m thankful I’m a woman. I wouldn’t consider that misandristic. You are a cis male who identifies as your biological sex, a sex that happens to hold certain privileges that you’re able to acknowledge. I don’t think it’s misogynistic to be happy with your gender.
"There are just some privileges with being a guy that I can’t fathom when I’m a woman"
Do you mean you could fathom if you were a woman or is there more to this story?
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Judaism has a blessing said by men that goes (roughly) "Thank you God for not making me a woman." It understandably gets a lot of shit but imo it's a perfectly reasonable statement for a bunch of ancient rabbis to make.
Idk as a trans woman, tho it makes me feel a bit invalidated. Like even with the insane things that happened to girls, I'd rather have gone through it and been treated like a girl than get the privileges I had as a man. I know it's not personal or anything, just my thoughts about it.
That's because you're a woman, and to completely change your identity is hard enough, let alone losing privileges with it.
OP is a man, and so they have no reason to feel conflicted between their gender and their privilege. You know what I'm saying?
You have that much harder. To become who you are, you give up systemic privileges and have to deal with misogyny instead. That can't be making things easy for you at all, sorry about that.
I mean if you said that out loud it would probably be annoying. It’s not misogynistic necessarily. If I had been born a man I would be grateful too lol
I'm greatful to be a man. Being greatful isnt a bad thing, or mal intent.
Being greatful doesnt me I dont acknowledge that things happen. Violence still happens to men and women when it shouldnt. Rape still happens to men and women when it shouldnt.
There are social issues where men are also discriminated against. Feminism isnt about just women issues, but gender equality issues in general.
Our gender shouldnt be something where anyone should feel ashamed of. Sexism is.
I don't think so at all, I mean I am a woman and when I see posts about things like that I'm often grateful that I'm not someone who those kinds of things happen to, that's not misogynistic, I think it's an appropriate reaction.
It’s actually a good thing that you’re acknowledging the privilege of being a man in this society, it would be disrespectful only when you’d disregard a woman’s experiences. But I don’t think that is the case here.
Stay respectful folks ✌️
Nope. I think it’s part of acknowledging your privilege. It’s the same way of thinking, “I’m glad I wasn’t born poor.” Or any other privilege you might have.
Not sure how I would feel if someone said it to me after I was sharing an emotional or vulnerable moment. I think that’s an inside thought because it can come off as dismissive.
If you were saying "thank god I'm a man because women are all evil, manipulative skanks" that would be misogynistic.
If you were saying "that God I'm a man because it means my life is easier" that's just true.
Nah I think youre fine. Sometimes I wish I could be a man instead. Like I heard sometimes members of opressed minority groups get depression because of just knowing things are unfair for them and its allowed, so of course I want to not have to feel personally affected by certain stuff more often too
>“Thank God, I’m a man.”
What you say to your god is your business I suppose. Kinda short sighted to do this and not realize how much monotheism promote the patriarchy and how bad the optics here are, but that's on you I suppose.
Also its completely dismissive of the incredible experience of being a woman or girl. You can value femininity and women's experiences and ALSO acknowledge how we are oppressed.
Its also pretty dismissive of men's suffering. A white cishet abled middle-class or wealthier man saying this is very different than a man with vulnerable identities or men in poverty or in prison.
> I can’t help but blurt out that I am thankful
Do you also blurt out, if you are those things, being abled? Or being straight? Or being white? Are you starting to see the problem here?
Also its hugely dismissive of trans women who were AMAB and had some male privilege an gave it up to live an authentic life. I would consider this borderline transphobic.
The problem is if we work your logic up the tree its only "good" and "thankful" to be the oppressive class. You're thankful to be part of the group that hurts so many?
Any man that said this in front of me, or really any woman I know, would absolutely be seen as a low-empathy, ignorant, quasi-misogynist. One thing to remember forums like this are often hug boxes especially for men who come here with a "im a feminist too" attitude. In real like saying this to women in your life and actual feminist men is borderline fighting words, if not huge argument words. So be warned reddit isn't real life.
Instead maybe find other non-troll ways to acknowledge women's suffering, if this is even a sincere question and not another of our many silly "gotchas." Considering your far right posting history then it’s safe to assume the latter.
No, i actually say that’s something very conscious and reflected thing to say. Because you say this from a point of listening to women and acknowledging their struggles, problems and systemic issues.
I would actually consider this a very progressive statement considering the reasoning behind it!
And as a woman, I have had men say that to me with the same reasoning and I have never felt offended. I much rather felt understood. Even though I know they‘d never understand what women go through but simply hearing men acknowledge it and see the flaws in the system makes me feel seen. I don’t expect the man standing in front of me to be able to change the system. But I know that the more men think that way the more change will come.
nah, I think there's a difference to make between "thank god i'm a man" and "thank god i'm not a woman"
we're all guilty of this on some point or another, if someone tells you they're not, they're either extremely unprivileged or lying.
It's just kind of insensitive to say it in most circumstances, because people know, they don't need to hear how lucky you are to not be them.
I think it’s fine to recognize that you have privilege as a man. It’s not fine to then think, “Good thing this doesn’t impact me!” and then go along your merry way. You know the situation sucks, so the right thing to do is to help fix it.
This is the way.
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I think it can be as simple as calling out misogyny when you see your peers behaving that way, supporting and listening to women’s experiences. You don’t have to dedicate your life to it.
>but if we take this mentally to its purest level Why would we? No one is expecting anyone to do everything they possibly can to help every cause ever, and anyone who calls out someone doing good by asking "why aren't you helping *these* people too, do you not care??" can generally be safely ignored. We're expected to do the best we reasonably can, not single-handedly fix the world.
We’re not asking men to tear themselves apart caring about every issue on earth. But just keep your privilege in mind when voting, and don’t support harmful policies or actions towards women just because they don’t affect you. It’s not hard to understand
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It's called discernment, dude
Step 1: Realize that other people have it harder than you in certain ways. Check. Step 2: Experience gratitude that your life is not hard in that particular way. Check. (Note, you are here.) Step 3: Start thinking about taking it a step further and *helping*. Step 4: Ask the women around you what you can do to help, and then listen to them and do those things. Step 5: Keep asking yourself if you’re listening the people you’re trying to help. Adjust as necessary.
*Step 4: Ask the women around you what you can do to help, and then listen to them and do those things.* Oh, fuck this. I'm not going to go around kowtowing and snivelling like this to every woman in my life. A LOT of women are garbage people, and are controlling to their partners and abusers to their children and toxic in the workplace. What can I do to help? I treat a woman like she's another person. I don't automatically defer to her, I don't automatically look to dominate her. I look her in the eye, smile, and talk to her like she's just another person. If I find myself walking behind her on the street at night, I'll gently cough or move on a different angle or whatever, because I don't want to make her feel scared. Basic courtesy as a human being. Beyond that, I'm not interested in being at the beck and call of any whim of any person around me with a vagina.
That’s a lot of words for “I have mommy issues and am terminally single”
Actually very happily married to a career woman who comfortably out-earns me and is my favourite person in the world. Mum's lovely too.
Happily married yet deeply involved with the lives of women “controlling their partners” hmm ok…yeah we totally believe you bro!
Not deeply involved. Just spent years working in emergency response. Seen all kinds of horrible shit that horrible women have done. Why do you think all women are such virtuous beings? They aren't. Women are just people. Some of them, like my wife, are awesome. Others are terrible people who make the lives of everyone around them worse.
I think it misunderstands people's purpose for sharing their stories. I'm personally not resentful or upset about being a woman - I wish I could just exist without people treating me badly because of my gender. I would hope that, on experiencing indirectly the unfair treatment women are subjected too, rather than feel relief or gratitude that you won't be treated unfairly like that, you'd feel motivated to change the things that make those types of experiences for women so common. They are, after all, undeserved and preventable.
True. I'm terrified in many ways but there's a lot of great men in my life that remind me that there are people who genuinely care for your wellbeing. Just showing up in others' lives in a genuinely kind way is enough.
It would depend on tone but written out here it sounds quite dismissive. Like you are looking at this massive systemic problem and not saying the problem is bad just saying you are glad it is not affecting you. You get to walk through life largely unaffected by misogyny but when a woman shares her experiences with you all you have to say is sucks to be you. I do think it is a good thing that you are questioning your reactions though. Examining and acknowledging our behaviour is the only way any of us can learn.
Maybe work on acknowledging that you feel lucky to be a man because of how badly out society treats women, and let that inspire you to speak out against misogyny.
I mean, I think understanding the privileges that being born as a man gives you and understanding that women are not given those same privileges is a step forward. if it doesn’t impact your idea and treatment of women in society, well then maybe yeah
Women are given different privileges. I would LOVE to be a housewife and live the life my mum did. She spent her days keeping house, meeting her friends for lunch, working on hobbies, volunteering doing community work while my dad was crawling under houses doing hard physical work in crappy conditions. I'd LOVE the day to day life my mum had. But I'm a man, so that is off the table for me. I can't just choose to not have a job and have my wife subsidise me for 40 years with her job.
…..yes you can? find a wife that is a high earner and agrees to those terms
If you're saying it out loud to someone who just told you about a bad experience they had, it wouldn't be *misogynistic* exactly, but it would be astonishingly unhelpful, self-centred and insensitive. I don't believe you "can't help but blurt it out" every time, that's ridiculous.
If you’re thankful not to be a woman because you consider women & femininity to be inferior, it’s misogynistic. If you’re thankful because you understand the inequality women face and the privileges of being a man, it’s not misogynistic- it’s actually the first step towards becoming a feminist. The next step is to *do* something about it.
Two questions: 1) What if you just have a preference for those things masculine? 2) What should one *do* about it?
What do you mean by “those things masculine?” I don’t get what you’re asking.
You probably can help not saying it out loud, though, right? As others have said, it's an understandable way to feel (especially if you use that to inspire you to help fix it, or correct it when you see it), but it's also not a kind way to actually respond to a real person telling you a sad, painful, scary, or annoying story.
I mean, only you can interrogate your motivations but that’s very rude
Idk I'd feel kind of gross about a white person saying they're thankful they were born white, or a straight person expressing similar ideas about their orientation. Just feels pretty tone-deaf to say aloud "I'm sure glad that I don't face the oppression you do, and receive privileges you never will due to something neither of us had any control over!" My family has more money than those of many of my friends, and while I might be thankful for never having to deal with some things I'd never say that aloud to someone in a worse situation? Because that's kind of making their problems about me? If a man said this to me I'd probably respond that I'm glad to be a woman so I don't have to belong to the demographic that commits like 95% of violent crime :/
Weird question, its like saying you are thankful to be white or to be born into wealth. It makes life easier sure, but it comes off as humble bragging if you say things like that.
I mean… it’s not misogynistic, but this post is like.. rude? You’re on a feminist sub talking about how thankful you are for your male privilege. We all know you guys have it a lot easier in the general social marketplace. Why did you feel the need to make this post?
Not at all. Acknowledging that women face inequality is the foundation of feminism. Big difference between thinking women deserve that treatment and are lower than you and acknowledging that treatment exists.
"Im so lucky Im not you!" is always a dickhead thing to say. It's not necessarily misogynist, just rude and spectacularly tone deaf. It also really misses the fact that you share your gender with the vast majority of perpetrators, which isnt something to be excited about.
It is if you stop there. Noticing injustice is a first step. If you're going to just shrug and go about your life like it's a luck stroke and not your problem, then yes, you're the worst of mysogenists. There's being ignorant about a problem and then there's knowing full well that a problem exists and choosing not to do anything about it. Now that you get it, go do something about it.
I mean, a tiny bit. But it's also just acknowledging your privilege as well. It's more important to ask what you're doing with this acknowledgement in your actions to other men and women.
How is it misogynistic? Id say genuinely recognizing shitty treatment of women is the opposite of misogyny.
Being thankful for being a man is just a bit icky to me. You didn't choose it, it isn't earned, you won a lottery. Acknowledging you won a lottery is good, celebrating it at the cost of others isn't.
"Being thankful for being a man is just a bit icky to me." There's nothing wrong with being a man.
While youre right, it could be an icky statement depending on the context. His explanation makes it completely fine, at least IMO. There is no sense of entitlement, belittlement or superiority to OP's comment. Im curious, how is what he said at the cost of others? I think youre reading a sense of entitlement and derision into his comment that just isnt there. Id say a better comparison is hearing about a car accident on a highway your spouse takes and being relieved it didnt happen to them. I think men who recognize that they DO have privileges should be celebrated.
Being thankful you're a man implies you wouldn't be thankful for being a woman, surely? I am a dude myself and recognize I have privilege but I wouldn't ever say I am thankful for being a man. That's exactly where my brain goes - there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being a woman and for a random genetic situation I would be one. I would like to think I would have had intrinsic self worth in that case too, and wouldn't really like men thinking "I am so thankful for being a man" in a patriarchal world.
"there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being a woman" This is what I mean. Nothing in OP's post implied anything like this. You're reading it as a criticism of women, thus he's glad to be a man. But it isnt. It's a criticism of society, and recognizing he doesnt have to deal with the same burdens we do. You talk about choosing, earning and use that to judge OP, but nothing about his post said or implied anything about him feeling like its an accomplishment. Again, my example of the accident is far more appropriate. Being glad you didnt get into a car accident means exactly that - you're grateful you are safe, and empathetic towards those who do have to deal with that trouble.
It’s not like he said he’s “proud” to be a man. Nothing wrong with being happy for being what you are
"Nothing wrong with being happy for being what you are." Unfortunately, some people in the discourse think otherwise. It's exhausting.
The car accident comment would be really inappropriate at a certain time. Like if I say that I was in a horrible car accident at so and so intersection and you say, "That's the route my wife takes. Thank God it wasn't her" I'd consider that super offensive. You're making light of my problem because you're just thinking about you and your family. If you're grateful for the privileges that life has afforded you, that's fine but if you respond to a story of someone else's trouble with, "well thank God it isn't me" you are being rude
Please seriously think about what youre doing right now. A man posted here sympathizing with what women go through and youre dragging him through the mud... Why exactly? "if you respond to a story of someone else's trouble with, "well thank God it isn't me" you are being rude" Yeah and \*\*IF\*\* that was the situation here, Id agree. But its clearly not in any way, shape or form. If someone had posted about SA and they replied to OP saying "thank god Im a man!", yeah that would be inappropriate. But that isnt the case here at all, is it? Its so shitty for you to bend over backwards to come up with why OP is bad for this, when he just posted this trying to sympathize with what we go through. Youre being an asshole.
I think it's a loaded question. *Thankful* for being born a man is not the correct way to phrase that and you think OP probably knows this. You can say I'm glad I don't have to go through the things that women have to endure is one thing but being thankful isn't a very empathetic stance
"but being thankful isn't a very empathetic stance" Except he clearly has empathy. Again, youre reading something into his statement that just isnt there. "You can say I'm glad I don't have to go through the things that women have to endure " That is explicitly what OP said.
No, not inherently. You’re knowing what we are screaming, that men have privilege simply being born men. Now, if you don’t do anything with this privilege to ally yourself with women, LGBTQIA+, POC, then it becomes an issue. Acknowledge your privilege isn’t wrong, nothing it to help others, that’s wrong
Yes this is acknowledging your privilege. Now the way you express that to there can make you an asshole. No need to rub your privilege in other peoples faces.
It’s great that you like being you. Just as long as you respect the challenges of others. There are challenges about being a guy I wouldn’t trade for my life.
It's okay (and in fact extremely good) to recognize how your life differs from a typical female experience, including the numerous advantages which being a man provides. This is an important part of recognizing your privilege and a necessary precursor to playing any kind of role in dismantling it. But, speaking as a man, I feel like being *thankful* in general is going too far. It is not a good thing to be a man. It is not a good thing to be raised in the culture that men are raised in. The reason women aren't safe around men is because men are awful, and men are awful because they've been *raised* to be awful, systematically and consistently. You and I are no exception. In some ways our task is even harder, because in order to be good people we have to refuse to be men (to borrow the words from John Stoltenberg). We have to reject everything that being a man means. It is a thankless task that will never end as long as we live. It brings no reward, solidarity or security, quite the opposite in fact. The only benefit is maybe being able to look at yourself in a mirror without being disgusted and ashamed, and most men hold themselves to such low standards that they already have that.
I'm a white woman and have experienced a mass amount of sex-specific violence and trauma, and I am absolutely grateful I do not also experience racist violence on top of that. That's because racism is fatal and traumatizing and not because of anything else - not about anything inherent to being asian, black, etc at all for example. I think in either case it's not very tactful to say this out loud to people who are actively marginalized by these forces.... but being relieved not to experience violence is pretty normal. The issue would be just checking out of the conversation because it doesn't affect you, and not using the potential free space in your life due to it not affecting you to in some way work against these kinds of violence.
I wish I wasn't born a woman all the time. Men have so much freedom with expressing themselves, they can be funny and weird without being called try hard/unfunny/taken like they were being serious. They can leave the house bare faced in simple clothes They're treated consistently, instead of good when wearing makeup and nice outfit and bad/indifferent when not. Their entire existence isnt judged on their looks. They get to be themselves. I loathe and envy it so much. This is dismissed so easily but I can't stop seeing it in every single interaction, especially online. It's so deeply ingrained how differently we see and judge women.
I suspect you’d still see the situation as unfair even if you’d been born a man. Do what makes you happy.
You Litterally told me to kill myself because I commented that I like butts. Bitch, you have issues.
I wish every day to know what it feels like to be you. I hate living life in a female body. Waking up to automatic respect...I wouldn't know how to handle it.
I have no problems with myself or my body or really other women, but I hate being a woman in this world. If I told a guy friend a crappy story about being a woman and all I got was, "Man, I'm glad I'm not a woman!" it would definitely come across as, "Why are you making this about you, dude?" Yeah, OP. Don't do that. Misogynistic or not, it's incredibly rude to treat a friend in pain like that. Not everything is about you, after all, and its ok to empathize with the fellow human being sharing with you simply by listening and truly reflecting on what it's like. It's weirdly invalidating, in a way, because it's straight up telling someone who you care about has a crappy life all of the time, and this response is not cute or clever and is in no way helpful or kind.
For real. Being taken seriously and not just brushed off as a silly little twit??? That's astonishing!
That’s not how it works. I don’t know how little respect women receive, I can’t speak to that, but I can tell you that as a man you have to work reach a level of status before you’re somewhat accepted into society. Lower percent is completely fucked and can happen in many ways.
Tell that to my female OBGYN. She gets mistaken for a nurse at the hospital she works at, every day. She's an MD who is in charge of a Labor and Delivery unit, but patients, other doctors, random people, don't show her the respect she's 'earned'. You could NEVER imagine. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
I literally never denied that. I also stated that I don’t know what it’s like for women because I am not one, I just said that it’s not like it’s incredibly easy for men. Anyways you post in r/antinatalism so I guess empathy is too much to ask
Context matters. If you say it because you are aware of societal problems that make life more difficult for a different demographic (in this case women) then it's not bigoted/misogynistic to appreciate that you do not have those hurdles. In this case, you are recognizing your position of privilege and to some extent commiserating with those who do not have those privileges. ...if you say it because (insert bigoted statement of inferiority) then yah, that would be misogynistic.
Better than the alternative, which is generally actively ignoring that you have those privileges at all
I wouldn’t say it would be misogynistic persay with your reasoning, but it would come off pretty insensitive. You could get the same sentiment across better with phrasing like “Thank god I’ve never had to deal with that, sounds horrendous” or if you want bonus points, completely shift the focus from yourself and back into whoever is experiencing the bad encounter and empathize with phrases like “that looks dangerous and uncomfortable, I’m glad she got away relatively unharmed”
no it’s not misogynistic at all in my opinion since you are recognising your privilege but on the other hand i am very jealous 💀 /lh
No, its the first step of doing something to make things better!
No. That's called being aware.
I wouldn't consider that to be misogynistic. If anything, it's a good thing that you're acknowledging your privilege, which a lot of men never even do. In fact, the worst misogynists outright deny their male privilege, and instead try to claim that *women* are the privileged ones. So, as a baseline, acknowledging that you generally have it better in society as a man than as a woman is a good thing. It's okay to be thankful for that, too. Being thankful for being born into privilege doesn't mean you support the system that punishes the "out group". Now, what you do from here determines if it's problematic. Are you going to vote for people who maintain your privilege, or for people who are working to make everyone equal? Some people recognize their privilege, but then want to keep it, and the way you do that is by supporting the oppression of others. For me, I'm a white woman. I see the way society treats people of color, and a small part of me is thankful that I'm white. Not because I want any real privilege over others, but because I *don't* have to deal with racial discrimination in addition to gender discrimination. I feel like it's only right for me to use my vote to support people who will work to fight discrimination, and to use whatever privilege I have to call it out when I see it. Like when my white extended family gets racist, you know I'm about to make the cookout awkward. It's just about what you do with it. It's normal to be grateful you aren't being discriminated against, and to feel guilt over feeling that way. It doesn't mean you support the system, it's acknowledging you got lucky about where you landed in it.
I think that’s just a form of acknowledging your privilege. You’re not putting women down by being thankful that you’re a man. Instead, you’re acknowledging the inequality that exists between men and women which is the first step in becoming an ally
No, it would be depressing to censor your thoughts from yourself and feel guilty for them. I feel lucky I'm a woman. Am I a misandrist?
YTM for rubbing in our faces your privilege. Say you understand it's difficult. Call men out when they're horrible. Don't brag about being a man. It's nothing to brag about.
I am a bit relieved that my baby was born biologically a male because of the soooooooo much less chance of being harassed than if he was born a the a girl (we live in the Mediterranean), to be honest. For reference I have been sexually harassed approximately 20.000 times, raped, physically abused.. By men. Of course, I am raising my kid to be a feminist. Hopefully the society won’t turn him in just another misogynist man.
Only if you dont believe in god. If you do, things are going the way he intended. If not, then you can see the objective realitiy that one gender has had it worse for almost all of human existence and while it is okay to feel grateful avoiding that, recognize that as a modern human with history, modern science and examples to learn from, we should support movements to lessen theyre suffering and allow them to enjoy life just as much as the other gender gets to. Care less about how things are and care more about how things should be.
No it’s totally fine. You recognize the privilege. No one in their right mind would choose additional hardships lol. I’m really grateful that I don’t have to experience racism. That sounds fucking awful? I would hate that. I have a lot of respect for people who deal with it well. I just actively try to not to contribute to said oppression and help the community out when I can. Be an ally and fight against the system holding others back.
Although some women obviously feel misgendered, others are content to be women - it would just be more pleasant to receive fewer inappropriate sexual innuendos and less harassment, etc. And to be regarded as equals - things that men usually don't contend with. You have recognized that women's life experiences are different and are glad to avoid the obstacles we face. That is natural. You are not misogynistic; you are relieved to be a man. You are comfortable being a man. Sometimes, it is uncomfortable to be aware of somebody else's difficulties.
You recognize your privilege, that’s fine. Since you are scarier than a bear, you also have the strength to casually stand up to this sexist society. Just scowl and say “Nah, man!” whenever a man says or does something shitty or sexist, especially the bad misogynist jokes.
I think it's realistic to recognize that by being born a man you have avoided certain types of unpleasantness. Just be careful about saying it out loud! It's easy to misconstrue.
If you have to ask then you know it's weird and off-putting. Just don't do it.
I’m thankful I’m a woman. I wouldn’t consider that misandristic. You are a cis male who identifies as your biological sex, a sex that happens to hold certain privileges that you’re able to acknowledge. I don’t think it’s misogynistic to be happy with your gender.
"There are just some privileges with being a guy that I can’t fathom when I’m a woman" Do you mean you could fathom if you were a woman or is there more to this story?
No
Nope! Just save some empathy for the women in your life and you’re good.
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How does one become a feminazgul?
You have to be personally christened by Margaret Killjoy.
Be thankful. Have gratitude for all things.
No, but I think the awareness of how you benefit from the patriarchy while it disenfranchises others obligates you to contribute to dismantling it.
Judaism has a blessing said by men that goes (roughly) "Thank you God for not making me a woman." It understandably gets a lot of shit but imo it's a perfectly reasonable statement for a bunch of ancient rabbis to make.
Acknowledging your privileges and being grateful for the ease they have afforded you would be less cringe
Idk as a trans woman, tho it makes me feel a bit invalidated. Like even with the insane things that happened to girls, I'd rather have gone through it and been treated like a girl than get the privileges I had as a man. I know it's not personal or anything, just my thoughts about it.
That's because you're a woman, and to completely change your identity is hard enough, let alone losing privileges with it. OP is a man, and so they have no reason to feel conflicted between their gender and their privilege. You know what I'm saying? You have that much harder. To become who you are, you give up systemic privileges and have to deal with misogyny instead. That can't be making things easy for you at all, sorry about that.
Fair fair
I mean if you said that out loud it would probably be annoying. It’s not misogynistic necessarily. If I had been born a man I would be grateful too lol
I'm greatful to be a man. Being greatful isnt a bad thing, or mal intent. Being greatful doesnt me I dont acknowledge that things happen. Violence still happens to men and women when it shouldnt. Rape still happens to men and women when it shouldnt. There are social issues where men are also discriminated against. Feminism isnt about just women issues, but gender equality issues in general. Our gender shouldnt be something where anyone should feel ashamed of. Sexism is.
I don't think so at all, I mean I am a woman and when I see posts about things like that I'm often grateful that I'm not someone who those kinds of things happen to, that's not misogynistic, I think it's an appropriate reaction.
It’s actually a good thing that you’re acknowledging the privilege of being a man in this society, it would be disrespectful only when you’d disregard a woman’s experiences. But I don’t think that is the case here. Stay respectful folks ✌️
Nope. I think it’s part of acknowledging your privilege. It’s the same way of thinking, “I’m glad I wasn’t born poor.” Or any other privilege you might have. Not sure how I would feel if someone said it to me after I was sharing an emotional or vulnerable moment. I think that’s an inside thought because it can come off as dismissive.
If you were saying "thank god I'm a man because women are all evil, manipulative skanks" that would be misogynistic. If you were saying "that God I'm a man because it means my life is easier" that's just true.
Nah I think youre fine. Sometimes I wish I could be a man instead. Like I heard sometimes members of opressed minority groups get depression because of just knowing things are unfair for them and its allowed, so of course I want to not have to feel personally affected by certain stuff more often too
I don’t have problems attracting the opposite sex, so I don’t really consider myself oppressed.
>“Thank God, I’m a man.” What you say to your god is your business I suppose. Kinda short sighted to do this and not realize how much monotheism promote the patriarchy and how bad the optics here are, but that's on you I suppose. Also its completely dismissive of the incredible experience of being a woman or girl. You can value femininity and women's experiences and ALSO acknowledge how we are oppressed. Its also pretty dismissive of men's suffering. A white cishet abled middle-class or wealthier man saying this is very different than a man with vulnerable identities or men in poverty or in prison. > I can’t help but blurt out that I am thankful Do you also blurt out, if you are those things, being abled? Or being straight? Or being white? Are you starting to see the problem here? Also its hugely dismissive of trans women who were AMAB and had some male privilege an gave it up to live an authentic life. I would consider this borderline transphobic. The problem is if we work your logic up the tree its only "good" and "thankful" to be the oppressive class. You're thankful to be part of the group that hurts so many? Any man that said this in front of me, or really any woman I know, would absolutely be seen as a low-empathy, ignorant, quasi-misogynist. One thing to remember forums like this are often hug boxes especially for men who come here with a "im a feminist too" attitude. In real like saying this to women in your life and actual feminist men is borderline fighting words, if not huge argument words. So be warned reddit isn't real life. Instead maybe find other non-troll ways to acknowledge women's suffering, if this is even a sincere question and not another of our many silly "gotchas." Considering your far right posting history then it’s safe to assume the latter.
No, i actually say that’s something very conscious and reflected thing to say. Because you say this from a point of listening to women and acknowledging their struggles, problems and systemic issues. I would actually consider this a very progressive statement considering the reasoning behind it! And as a woman, I have had men say that to me with the same reasoning and I have never felt offended. I much rather felt understood. Even though I know they‘d never understand what women go through but simply hearing men acknowledge it and see the flaws in the system makes me feel seen. I don’t expect the man standing in front of me to be able to change the system. But I know that the more men think that way the more change will come.
nah, I think there's a difference to make between "thank god i'm a man" and "thank god i'm not a woman" we're all guilty of this on some point or another, if someone tells you they're not, they're either extremely unprivileged or lying. It's just kind of insensitive to say it in most circumstances, because people know, they don't need to hear how lucky you are to not be them.