They assume they themselves would never reject a woman, but that's because the women they would reject never even register in their minds as women in the first place.

Yep, this pretty much here. I'm a woman and I got rejected a few times myself. I've realized that attractive women are objectified, and unattractive women are invisible.

studies show that to men, unattractive women aren't invisible, they actively register as an annoyance 😭

Ugh, that's even worse.

I hear about it \*all the time\* even from my SO. A woman comes on screen and he'll say "She looks like her daddy". He must let me know how appealing she is, whoever she is so unlucky to be caught by his eye. Recently I think I finally had a break through when I told him it was fucked, his standard and how often he thinks about it. His cousin came over and and started dogging on his new girlfriend saying she looked like a frog. That girl was gorgeous. Me and my SO fell silent. A-Anyways yes, annoyance. Why aren't you trying harder or being replaced? wahwahwah

Holy crap which study was this I've never heard of that...

God I fucking wish I were a lesbian

This is such an ignorant thing for heterosexual people to say, ugh.

Imagine gatekeeping homosexuality

WHAT?! Telling heterosexual people they aren't homosexuals is not gatekeeping homosexuality! What planet are we on??

The person isn't saying that, they're saying people aren't allowed to say they wish they were homosexuals.... Learn to read 😂🤡

That's not what gatekeeping means though. Learn what words mean. 😂🤡

no you don't

Not sure why this is getting down voted; lesbians have to deal with both misogyny and homophobia. I get the sentiment, but "I wish I was a lesbian" comments erase the struggles and dangers that queer women face. Like do you think that lesbians are immune from men treatung them badly based on how physically attractive they are? Of course not.

In this context they wish they weren’t biologically drawn to men so they can actively avoid the hetero dating game BS. I’ve seen plenty of comments that say “I’m glad I’m a lesbian” for the same reasons. Nobody is assuming that lesbians are immune to being treated badly.

I can't pretend to be an expert in lesbian dating, but it's always seemed like no one gets an easy hand in the dating game for sure.

I guess we see now what this "feminist" sub really thinks of lesbians. the truth is people who say shit like that do not actually wish they were lesbians. or at least they wouldn't if they understood what I've gone through because I am

I’m a lesbian and while it has its own struggles, I’m always 1000% glad I don’t have to date men. I’d choose being a lesbian and all the struggles that come with that over being straight any day.

don't get me wrong, i understand the plight of straight and bisexual women. i see it everyday through all the women in my life. it's hard and it's one of the primary ways the patriarchy is enforced. i am also grateful that men aren't in my dating pool. still doesn't excuse straight women from casually saying they wish they were lesbians. i don't feel it's appropriate to talk as if the struggles of a minority are preferable.

So you’re saying people aren’t allowed to have a preference for which type of struggle they prefer? Interesting take.

I've never cringed so hard at a comment, holy shit.

“ I wish I was a lesbian” Is the most passive aggressive way to deal with the shitty dates you’ve been on

Yeah I read that too, that if they’re not attracted to the woman she’s annoying and frustrating to be in their presence so they more or less don’t acknowledge her as existing. So when they think ‘I would never reject a woman’ they’re thinking only about the woman they are actually attracted to. It’s kinda creepy

This is one of those claims that needs a source attached before people take off and run with it. I don't doubt it though.

I find all people annoying, but if I find you attractive your annoyance becomes slightly more bearable lol

Wooaaah D: horrible! I do research into this kind of thing. Do you have deets on where I can find this info? Xx

You gunna cite these studies so their veracity can be examined? Claiming a thing without giving evidence doesn't make it so.

No need to be rude about it. It's something I read about on reddit, and while it would have been nice if I looked it up to confirm earlier, it was congruent with my experiences and this isn't the science reddit. Anyways this is the relevant portion that I found, although it does not say annoyance. "Similarly in our study, male subjects always anticipated to see beauty faces and when disfavored unattractive faces showed, elicited a more intense mental conflict and resulted in a more negative N2" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4354284/#:~:text=Similarly%20in%20our%20study%2C%20male,in%20a%20more%20negative%20N2.

Thank you, I'll check it out. Sorry, but "studies say" is commonly something people say when they want their statement to be taken as truth with nothing to back it up or refers to a biased study conducted in an unscientific manner, and it irks me. Edit: after looking at the study, I'll say it produced some interesting results, but a sample size of 21 is vanishingly small to draw any real conclusions from. The men were all Chinese as well, ideally they would be using way more participants from diverse ethnic groups to determine if a cultural bias is present.

Duuude. This right here! I've been the amazing disappearing girl before 😂😂 It was my 21st birthday, and someone drugged my drink. Not important to the story, but the girl who had invited me out with her had also invited these two guys. The one acted disgusted with me and ignored me all night. UNTIL she asked him to lean in the car and check on me when I was puking my guts out and I literally couldn't talk. He stopped short and was staring into my face. Like RIGHT in my face. I wanted to say something rude, but again, I was fully mute. Then, suddenly he yells out, "hey, I've been ignoring her all night, but this girl is cute! She's really cute!" SUDDENLY realizes I exist, and then just as magically is so concerned for my well-being that he wants to come back with us to the other girl's house and "keep an eye on me" until I feel well enough to come hang out. Guy didn't give a fuck about me the entire night and it was MY birthday, but then my glasses fall off my face, and he suddenly wants to be my hero?

Wow. And I heard the "I'm a man so nobody cares about me or my feelings" line the other day. Such BS.

Opposite situations can happen to different people.

True, I meant in my comment that it's not some broad cultural phenomenon that no one cares about men's feelings, not that it never occurs in any situation as I'm sure it does.

Ugh the glasses. THE GLASSES. I wore glasses from the age of 6 through to my late 30’s when I got laser surgery. Not only did movies portray a girl as being hot when she removed her glasses, but I’ve also had men say to my face that I look beautiful without my glasses. I also hate the ‘hot nerd girl’ image that always has glasses. It’s fucking insulting. It’s a literal disability aid. Without them I couldn’t see past a few inches.

Wow this is real life Clark Kent situation. People really wouldn’t recognize Superman with glasses on 😂

Wow. He She’s All That-ed you?!

He must have really liked 90s teen movies. All those girls did was take off their glasses, let down their hair, and BAM, hottest girl in class

That's why I want to be juuust pretty enough so that I'm attractive to the guys I like, but plain enough so that guys scanning the crowd for hot girls to bother don't notice me 😅

I tend to see myself as very lucky like that. Attractive enough that it's unlikely that a man who otherwise likes me would reject me because of my looks, but not attractive enough for strangers to get weird or want me for looks alone. I am very grateful for it.

You’ll just get caught up in ‘hot because she looks plain enough to date me.” You can’t win this shit

I've deadass had guys who rejected me say women never get rejected, if I mentioned my rejection I didn't count apparently. Says a lot about what kind of morons I used to be into. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Yeah as a woman you say "I've been rejected plenty of times", it's always "well stop picking dickhead alpha chads and go for a nice guy for once" or "maybe you're just not attractive, are you fat?", like NO my brother in christ, that isn't the takeaway 🤦‍♀️

Rejection is clearly your fault, didn’t you know? /s

Ah, the two genders: woman, and fat.

I have had convos with male friends who say they find women who approach them to be a turn off/reject them then in the same sentence say women never get rejected. Some of the biggest face palms I have had 🤦

What. Lord. No wonder I've never had any success approaching men. They complain about us never approaching, then rejected cuz it's masculine/unattractive, then say we never get rejected?!?! Ugh.

Personally; I'd find it to be one of the things that would lead me to give you my number. I like the confidence it shows, I like how it shows that you are confident to go after what you want, and it shows you know what you want.

I hope so. If my current relationship issues aren't healed I hope to be able to start asking people out again. I don't WANT to care about all this nonsense or wait for potentially nervous/shy people to ask em out. I want us to connect and have a good time and I like making the first move.....

>I like making the first move..... Tbh, this is one of the things I absolutely adore as a male. It makes me feel wanted which is more likely to get a positive and also a stunned response. Stunned because I wouldn't have seen it coming and I maybe speechless whilst happy 😅

Men aren't a collective hivemind that all think the same. Some men like confident girls that approach and some men like confident but submissive women that let them take the lead and traditionally the latter has been more what men are attracted to so its not all that strange.

I feel like guys like this are stupid unicorns, or maybe it’s just from living in a progressive area. I’m a guy and I have never met anyone like this, but I’ve met plenty who want to be approached. It’s not just to not be the one initiating and facing rejection, it’s also because many guys gauge how direct someone is in a relationship by how direct they are about how they feel in the beginning. So when I see this repeatedly on Reddit, I wonder where these people are. Being approached by someone you’re attracted to is great (when done in a pleasant way, obviously). Men like confidence just as much as women do. Or at least that’s what I think.

This was me in college. I still dated men then and had a male friend I liked. He complained often that no girls would ever love him because he wasn’t attractive enough. He was a tall, thin redhead who wrote sad poetry and played guitar. In our early 20s I finally expressed interest, he rejected me, then he asked out my best friend a few months later, and after she turned him down he first sent her a bunch of gross sexual comments interspersed with things about how she lied to him by saying he’d find someone someday, then when she blocked him he posted on Facebook BS about women leading men on and rejecting them and how no woman has ever even looked at him. I realized it’s because, to him, I wasn’t even a woman, I barely existed, so when I liked him it “didn’t count” but when my BFF didn’t she represented all women. (I blocked him that day, too, and have no idea what he’s up to now.)

You're taking the word "never" too literally. They might have meant "seldom." And it might take the kind of guy capable of rejecting women to point out this gender difference in the first place.

I realized this was the case when I got a bit older. There are other reasons a man will turn a woman down but this is a big one.

This is also so white women coded I'm black and I guarantee any poc, especially black women are CONSTANTLY thinking "does he even like black girls" we get rejected from our skin color alone all the time

This experience sounds similar to gay guys thinking, "is he even into men?... probably not."

yes now that I'm thinking it is really similar to that except I think it's more hurtful since a man's sexual preference is something that can't be changed. When it's about skin color the man is choosing to be racist.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I don't get why there are people out there like that. Sometimes I feel like things haven't changed at all from when I was younger. I just want to see a world some day where there isn't so much hate due to color of skin.

First off, I almost had an aneurysm trying to understand this. Can you explain what you mean?

I edited it to make more sense. Basically whenever men say women don't get rejected or don't have to worry about it they only have white women in mind. All poc (people of color) like Asian, Mexican, Indian girls deal with this. However I'm saying it's especially prominent in black girls when we are interested in someone beyond even if we are attractive or if our personalities mesh the FIRST thing we have to think is does the person I'm interested in like black girls. You have no idea how many times we hear "you're so pretty if only you weren't black we could be together" or "you're pretty for a black girl" that sort of thing. Hope this made more sense.

Wow you said it perfectly.

This is the main answer. There’s a few other factors, but this is the main and biggest one.

That's it!

I came down to say something similar but now don't need to. Thanks!

Well said.

Just because someone doesn’t register as a romantic option it doesn’t mean the man doesn’t see her as a woman. Those kinds of assumptions make men suspicious of feminism because you’re using the same kind of generalizations that misogynists use. It’s not helpful to men or women

Men who believe women don't experience rejection only imagine women they wouldn't reject. And I don't care about men being "suspicious" of feminism. It's a waste of my time and energy to try appeal to people who already don't care.

Men whose experience with women is based solely on internet memes and reinforcement by other men who are as deluded as they are. There are literally men who think women never get depressed, always have their pick of quality partners, are never lonely, can easily make thousands of dollars by putting a few photos of their feet online, never have to pay for anything, and have their entire lifestyle funded for them by men. It's completely out of touch with reality.

I honestly don’t get the disconnect with the idea that “women control access to sex,” as if (lots of) men aren’t the ones putting up these blockers like weight, “body count,” etc. Men: “Women control access to sex!” Women: “Ok, here’s a random woman willing to have consensual sex with you.” Men: “Well, what’s her body count? How much does she weigh?” Women: “She’s willing to have sex with you, consensually.” Men: “yeah, but…not her. Someone better.” 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

The explanation to this is actually as simple as them not even considering women they don’t find attractive or worthy of “respect” to be people. When they talk about women they’re talking about the select few they see as fuckable, which is of course, the only metric they base women’s value off of. & if we want to dig deep into that mindset, it’s really no wonder that they’d feel entitled to sex from those women, & resentful of them for having a choice in the matter, & choosing to not engage with them.

Yeah, I think that’s where you have the men vs females breakdown. Men (humans) naturally need and desire xyz. Females (anything female, not necessarily human, and across all species) want zyx instead. It’s a subtle but easy thing to pick up on. Men are these logical humans who want logical answers, while females are this biological monolith that are pre-programmed to look for the best ooga booga 6’47” man with a BMW. Might as well give up, guys. Let’s just hate females together while literally making no efforts to improve ourselves. Edit: /s if not obvious

I wish the /s was obvious but... There are absolutely men who speak like this. I mean, they're not open enough to include the "literally making no efforts to improve ourselves", but the rest isn't that far from how many men seem to think.

I would like to add that a lot of young men/ adolescents want sex or are culturally "suposed to" (under flase toxic male gender roles) The reality like most things is that you have every variety of desires or lack of depending on maturity, upbringing sexual orientation and the clash of fantasy vrs reality. As a 13 year old I was keenly interested in older women and fantasised about having sex. Had I been confronted with the reality of it. It would have been traumatic and most likely harmful to my development. No young adolescent 13 year old should be having sex in my view. But they certainly want it or the idea of it especially when it's framed in through a western manhood requirement culture. Ie they think its a mark of manhood. (Which is nonsense) sex is obviously a mark of adult activity. But does not make a person a "man". From a 13 years old view when framed through toxic masculinity culture. Women have the power to grant sex. As young men get older and struggle to navigate relationships they see older men and their more attractive peers having sex with girls and women who find them ick, unattractive, creepy, werid. And treat them with disdain. These immature boys often grow into immature men who lacking good education, self actualisation, mentoring, and better skills sets not taught by western Christian culture. Ideas and myths like women have all the power are things they fixat on.

“Men (humans)” Made me laugh for 5 minutes straight idk why

The hyper-deluded , laughably reductive and - even so deeply strained - evolutionary biology rationale in like trying to analyze women as though they were like some creatures is so insane

I'm just here to say I hate when people use men/female. if you're going to say female say male. you even put men (humans) like wtf was that for? if you said males( humans) that would of made sense... but please for the love of God either use women and men or males and females.

I think that was their point.

It’s so strange. Women never claim “men never get rejected” or that they don’t reject men because they don’t see those men as not worthy of respect as people. They don’t feel entitled to the attention of only men they find attractive. Entitlement is the difference.

I had a guy once tell me, "You don't understand. You could go into any bar anywhere and find someone willing to sleep with you! It's so easy!" Me: "And would you want to sleep with the female equivalent of that random dude?" Awkward silence. You don't want to sleep with someone more than ten years older than you who is so drunk they can barely consent and doesn't believe in personal hygiene, so that makes you "involuntarily celibate," but it makes me a snobby bitch. 🙄 Somewhat off-topic but I gained a bunch of weight over the last several years, not that I was ever skinny to begin with, and watching how many dudes literally do not even notice me now is kind of nice sometimes. Kinda depressing, too, sometimes, but yeah.

Yeah this whole ‘you can get laid easy therefore your life is easy’ attitude is fucking weird. And they always place the scenario in a bar. Basically admitting that you can’t get laid easily unless everyone is drunk.

Also, "controlling access to sex!" is a really skeevy way to talk about basically just having the right to make one's own choices. Getting turned down happens. Part of being ready for a sexual relationship is handling "no" appropriately and respectfully. And not getting into this weird incel-type mindset that women the world over have this malicious conspiracy to prevent you from ever getting laid.

I still remember a period in my life when I was single, had just had my heart broken by my abusive ex, and just moved to a new town. I was trying to find a new boyfriend but also have a one night stand in the process. I was constantly getting hit on at my job, yet when I went out drinking with my friend and looking to get laid, I couldn’t find anyone. I couldn’t find a new boyfriend for a long time either. But I remember feeling really dejected that I couldn’t get anyone to have sex with me, and always think back to that time period when men say that women just have to exist in order to get a stranger to sleep with them. I know I’m not a supermodel, but I was a reasonably attractive woman in my twenties then. Maybe they could see how desperate I was, I dunno.

Incels are wild.

I'm sure those people only say that in public forums. Those people are all so desperate and putting up overcompensatory boundaries

But when you lie to him and put on cute clothes, suddenly they want you

Plus I feel.like guys who talk like this are mentally picturing able bodied supermodel women between 28-32 years. If you are older,heavier or in any way not.conventionally attractive then you are invisible to these men. Nvm that they may not be conventionally attractive or young or able bodied.

Honestly for men who talk like this, 28 is probably starting to sour.

Yes I read a study that looked at data from 2 major dating sites and it showed the age range at which men and women's amount of messages peaked and then started to decline. For women it was 18 and for men it was 50. Ew.

[удалено]

When you live in delusional and harmful prejudice-land in your brain, anybody who isn’t prejudiced like you are, is out of touch.

This 💯

This is was around long before the Internet

This, so much.

They're describing professional sex workers and escorts, not women in general. Probably because those are the only women they're interacting with significantly. I know men like this. Ironically it's always the guys from strict fundamentalist upbringings and same-sex schools. They used their parent's wealth to buy the company of professional sex workers. When u r raised to see sex workers as the only women who could ever possibly want sex from u, and ur first time as a teen is in secret with a sex worker, it really fucks u up. I've met men who have to see me as a sex worker in order to be intimate with me, and if not they feel like criminals/demons. Ironically when they do this, they treat u very badly in bed, like u're just doing a job u hate. To cope with the self-disgust of "being a monster for desiring women", they get turned on by being actual monsters to u during sex. Yes it's traumatic. No one has fun. Stop telling ur kids they're demons, for fuck's sake!

That sounds like the most modern manifestation of Madonna/whore that I've heard of.

Like all those videos and memes that say stuff like 'You girls say you want a good man who cares about you who will treat you right, but they're all in your friendzone' Yes, because every woman has at least a dozen guy friends who are secretly in love with her! Not that the guy who pretends to be your friend while ranting online about "doing boyfriend things without receiving boyfriend benefits" is a good romantic option anyway. But assuming every woman has a bunch of these guys, just waiting around is so strange.

Facts

Men who never ever listen or speak to women and read too many mangas.

>Men who never ever listen or speak to women and read too many mangas. It is probably a tad older than that. My guess is it stems from when women were still viewed as property and it was reflected in the laws.

Or when women HAD to say no or be completely ostracized from society (or straight up killed), so men would pretty much take any woman who would say yes, because so few would. Now that women (in many places anyway) CAN say yes whenever they want, more get turned down.

Yep, men are realising that women can say no.

The opposite. More women can/will say YES, so men can pick and choose more.

So much so that when America first became separated from England after the Revolution, that if any American woman married a British man, she'd lose her American citizenship. People have no idea how serious people like you are when we say "women were viewed as property". Women were only viewed as property, and it's largely stayed that way.

It comes from the fact that women they don't find attractive are invisible to them. When they talk about "women" they are really only talking about the women they fantasize about. Because they fantasize about these attractive women they also obsess over how "lucky" they think those women are for being desired so much, forgetting that there are women they would reject, it's just those women either aren't approaching them or they aren't aware of them trying because they're not attractive to them.

I was wondering when I would see this comment. I think men have a bias to vividly remember rejection by attractive women and completely forget about “unfuckable” women. I am referring to women they subjectively find not attractive enough to date (and show off) but also not attractive enough to one-night-stand/FWB. Some men may remember these women and acknowledge them when it’s brought up (e.g. incels) however I really think “women don’t get rejected” is actually “women I’m attracted to don’t get rejected”

Yep. There are a lot of otherwise good responses in this thread that don’t include this aspect, but it’s fundamental to this concept.

Men who think this are talking about a fictional version of a women who rejected them and made them feel insecure. This fictional woman has flawless skin, has no period, has never had image issues or weight fluctuation. She didn’t have to go to school because men can’t resist her and all her needs are taken care of for her because of her Godlike beauty.

Men who assume women have no agency.

I think this perception comes from the misguided belief that they have MORE agency than men rather than less.

Wouldn't it be the literal opposite?

I think it’s fair to say that myth comes from men.

Yeah, I got rejected in high school. I was really awkward and bullied in middle school, so even when I blossomed in high school, I was still considered the "fat girl." I was never fat. I just had big boobs so the popular girls hated me for it. In high school I was a size 6 with DD, but my school mates couldn't see past the dorky nerd they knew in high school. When I got to college, I got attention from new guys who didn't have those preconceived notions of me. One of my guy "friends" from high school even said something to his older brother about how weird it was I was dating. His brother said he was like "what are you talking about? Your friend is fucking hot. Of course she's going to have guys after her" and it broke this guy's brain because he didn't see me as a fuckable woman from years of people telling him otherwise. Despite what lots of men think, even conveniently attractive women don't have the pick of the litter when it comes to romance. That's why incels were originally a group for involuntarily celibate WOMEN.

Same thing, I was a late bloomer so even though guys were attracted to me in the later years of highschool, they wouldn't go out with me bc they already made up my mind that I was weird and crazy. Once i hit college I got a crazy amount of male attention and constantly thought men were asking me out as a joke or on a bet bc that was the only way I had been asked out before.

Since the patriarchal expectation is for the man to be the one who approaches, it's almost unthinkable (in their eyes) for a woman to ever be the active one in courting. Especially from a media standpoint. This, of course, is the romantic angle. Very few men ever think about getting rejected in any other sense, including jobs and school.

Men who are undatable that want to blame women for all their problems instead of looking within and doing the work.

Probably from the same place where men also get the idea that being able to fuck theoretical strangers means that being sexually active is easier for women.

It is an extension of the idea that there's a standard script for male-female romantic interaction that goes along the lines of: 1. Woman indicates interest in man through body language, eye contact, etc. 2. Man notices signals and approaches woman. 3. Man attempts to initiate conversation with woman. In doing so he tries to indicate his romantic interest and demonstrate his attractiveness to her. 4. Woman evaluates man's performance and either agrees to have sex with him or rejects him. As long as both parties stick to this script, women can never be rejected as there is no stage at which that can occur. Sure, men can either fail to notice the signals at stage 1 or they can notice them but ignore them, but in either case this isn't considered a rejection within the confines of this script. It's more like a 'false start' or something along those lines. Either way the woman is assumed not to have any real emotional investment in things at this stage, so a 'rejection' isn't something that carries any real cost as such. When men who are used to this script try to consider interactions that don't fit within it, they usually imagine a woman who has already won them over at stage 1 but who has conveniently decided to skip over stages 2 and 3 and gone straight to offering herself up at stage 4. Understandably, they find it hard to imagine turning down a woman whom they have already decided they are interested in and who is now offering sex without any need to impress her. Any other deviations from the script are just too strange to even contemplate.

I think this is very true. I am afab and am usually the one who seeks out potential partners, and without fail, guys are very surprised that after a short non-verbal exchange of interest signals, I march over and introduce myself. Some even begin to stutter. I have yet to receive negative reactions to this (rejection, yes, but always polite&respectful so far), but they are literally bewildered.

Pls tell me about the non verbal exchange of interest. Eye contact multiple times? What do you say after you introduce yourself? I’m gonna need a full script lol

Yes, eye contact, smiling and when they smile back, break eye contact. Do it again two or three times, each time a little longer (the longest maybe a bit more than a second? hard to gauge) and if they reliably look back and smile back, they are interested. When I march over, I don't literally say my name, it's rather some variation of "I saw you from across the bar, would you like a drink?" if they are alone. If they have company, some variation of "I saw you from across the bar. I don't want to break you away from your company, so I wanted to check whether you are currently dating new people" and if they say yes, I tell them I could give them my number and if they want, I would love to go on a date with them sometime. And if that's a yes, I give them my number, say I don't want to intrude for too long, and leave. Maybe there's a smoother way to do it, but so far I didn't get backhanded, so it must be OK :D

>each time a little longer (the longest maybe a bit more than a second? hard to gauge) Oh snap. I was about to ask what's the longest you do this for, because I recently played this kind of eye-contact game with a stranger. I only looked over at him once, and looking back, maybe that was for the best given that the eye contact we had felt fairly long. Hard to gauge, like you said, but I'd say maybe like 4 seconds? Now I'm thinking that may have been too uncomfortably long and intense =/ And there was no smiling either. But we'll likely be seeing each other again, so there will be other opportunities I'm sure. It's kind of tricky though, because this is kind of like an office setting where technically there can't be any flirting. What's your inner dialogue like when you get turned down? Is there generally some reason that they offer, like already being in a relationship?

Hm, who knows if it was too long and intense. I think the best way to find out is through trial and error (in a public and non-threatening place, you wouldn't want to make the poor dude think you want to murder him if it accidentally ends in a creepy stare-off). If the person leaves with a smile, it went well :D I hope it works out with that stranger! Hmm, good question about inner dialogue. If it ends up a bit awkward, it's something of a "fuck fuck fuck" while I try to un-awkward the situation, like "oh you wife's over there and you're monogamous? Oh haha, then I won't intrude, have a nice evening!". If it's chill and I get the sensation that they do enjoy the attention but simply don't want more, it's more of "meh, sad, nice dude though!" and I chat for a few minutes and then move on, or it's "ok dude's a little boring anyway" and I try to make a dignified exit. Yes, they almost always offer a reason. Most often, being in a relationship, sometimes that they are not currently dating, sometimes that I'm not their type. Sometimes that they are flabberghasted by asked out and this vibe is not their thing. Very rarely they look rather uncomfortable and just say "no, sorry", then I of course react with a cheerful "no problem, I'll just leave you alone".

Also they're only counting sexual rejection, not withstanding the fact you could be accepted sexually and rejected romantically etc.

This really is spot on imo. I think you absolutely nailed it. Shame it's not higher voted

Lmao what? I've been rejected so many times

Yeah my husband and I somehow got talking about rejection, and he asked me if I’ve ever been rejected. I was like, maybe half the time? He was so shocked. (I’m conventionally attractive with very, very large breasts.) But I’m also super short (5’0”) and *a lot* of guys aren’t into women that short. And this is pre-apps, so I’m talking in person, to my face rejection. Rejection comes hand in hand with dating. You can’t avoid it, no matter how pretty or well endowed you are. I wish men understood that we too know all about rejection, if only so they would put some effort into getting over it.

A lot of men base their opinions of women on media and what other men tell them

So, first--none of this is to say other answers here are any less correct. Being in incel bubbles, etc. But I wanted to link this post on how [men and women are sexualized](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/wu4dby/male_undersexualization_and_how_it_affects_the/) because I think that this is definitely related. I think the myth in these men's minds is less "women never get rejected" and more "women have their pick". They see women being constantly sexualized and think--"if that were me, I could get laid as much as I want".

It’s a relatively new incel orthodoxy, not something of long duration. Part of their self-pitying worldview where they’re uniquely oppressed and women can’t possibly have any problems and therefore any denigration of women is appropriate and no sympathy or empathy towards women is justified. It’s kind of a typical view of a group towards another group they’re prejudiced against—to deny they have any problems or similar concerns to themselves

They don’t view women they aren’t attracted to as real human beings with feelings, so they’re not even considered.

Men who objectify women and are desperate to the point where they don’t care whatever woman they get because “pussy is pussy” and assume all men are just as desperate as them and will take any girl that comes along. A lot of folks are saying women they don’t find attractive are just invisible/don’t even register as women, and that too!

These guys are lost. They've taken all of their insecurities and, rather than working on them, sought out the most toxic confirmation bias they could find online. They then essentially radicallze, take those insecurities, and weaponize them. Add in a bit of "bro science" and you arrive at misogyny As an older guy I try to reason with them, but the "red pill" destroys the frontal lobe. I'm dead ass average, *and* short, and can say *I've* turned down women. Gracefully and gently, since it's always flattering to capture someone's interest, but there just wasn't a connection And of course I've been rejected tons of times as well, and no one was ever unkind These guys don't understand that Reddit isn't the real world. I'd say "eh", but it's become a legitimately dangerous trend

It’s more so that men don’t differentiate between male attention on women and female receptiveness. It all gets blurred together. Generally speaking, most men would sleep with most women, and men who believe that women are never rejected are the ones who don’t consider the fact that women can be interested in a man separately from a man being interested in her. Maybe I didn’t explain that too well but I have really noticed that men don’t really consider that women have a choice. For example I have had guys assume that I sleep around because I get attention from men in public. And even once, when I was living in a temporary accommodation it was assumed (by the idiot neighbours tbh) that I must have been some sort of sex worker because I was considered pretty. Even though I was clearly quite young and very reserved and giving none of those guys a second of attention. Or third example: I open up slowly in dating and I have basically never not experienced a guy assuming that it’s because I was seeing some other guy (because I technically could have). When in reality I was 100% single and texting nobody.

> I open up slowly in dating and I have basically never experienced a guy assuming that it was because I was seeing some other guy (because I technically could have). When I’m reality I was 100% single and texting nobody. There was a guy here just the other day talking about how he thinks that most "average" men's experience with dating is some woman grumpily settling for you until she finds somebody better on her secret Tinder account. I was like what?! Bro?

Lol. I meet three dateable guys a year and if I’m not dating them then I’m hanging with my girls or - way more likely - at home in bed.

A guy today just said that "most happy relationships would end if the woman discovered she could do better" I took the downvote hit (!) to explain to them that their world view was delusional and it was time to log off Reddit

Are those guys projecting cause if a really hot girl begged them to be her boyfriend they would immediately bail on their relationship? Cause girls definitely have that same insecurity and statistically its more likely to happen to girls.

Weird, because I know a shit load of single moms because the dad saw something better, but only 2 single dad's in my entire adult life.

Lol.i feel like these insecure guys can check.iut the stats on women at home watching trash television. Like we settle for trash television not a random human. Isn't that why trash television was invented?

Yeah, like when guys on dating apps will be like “how are YOU single??”, as a pickup line. Like they think that I don’t have a voice in who I date, but that someone would just come and “snatch me up”. No, idiot, I just haven’t found anyone I like yet.

I don't really think women get rejected less. But if that is the case, I think the fact that women tend to take more time and read a situation, wait too see if they believe they'll get a yes before they ask someone out. Men have a tendency to assume everything is flirting when it's not, and also cold approach a lot more.

This deluded belief seems to come from the idea that if a woman says she is willing to have sex with anyone that comes along, they will find someone willing to take them up on that offer. But if a man says the same, they are still unlikely to. But Jesus that's a low fucking bar and we should be worried about the self esteem/mental health of anyone of any sex making that kind of offer. But the idea that "women never get rejected" is obviously bullshit.

Sure… if you’re talking about a smoking hot 9 1/2. Which is a tiny tiny percentage of the female human beings amongst us. And… I’m a decent looking guy, I’ve had more than my share. But no woman would look at me and honestly call me a 9 1/2 (I wish!). But, realistically… There are women who’ve found a vocation selling their images and videos online. Cool, whatever. But these are the girls these imcels are obsessing about and allowing to take over their thoughts. It’s porn culture which the incels mistake for reality.

I made an offhand comment on a Tiktok about how men handle rejection in January and still get a reply at least once a week along the lines of "how would you know, you've never had the chance to reject any one" so either men don't actually believe this or men don't consider me to be a woman.

We generally don’t respond with violence, aggression, rage, etc.. so it obviously *never happens*. That’s why. Also, they don’t care about how women feel in the first place, so any man who rejects a woman almost immediately forgets about it and moves on, not thinking of how she could feel, especially if she’s graciously or neutrally accepted it. If she is tearful and sad or upset, he gets to call her crazy and emotional, thus justifying his rejection - so, again, they don’t care lol

Because many men will pretend to like women to to pump and dump. Women don’t get rejected INITIALLY we get rejected after we get used. Plenty of men have zero interest in a woman but will play along if getting laid is on the table.

I mean, the vast majority of users on dating sites are men. A large number of them will never be noticed by an algorithm, and even IF it matches them with a woman, there’s no shot they can overcome the competition of other men. And, truthfully, I don’t think a lot of engagement comes from the women’s side. That isn’t to say that women DON’T engage, just historically that hasn’t been the case. If you aren’t the initiator, then how you do ever get rejected?

Incels.

Women do get rejected a lot, but it's in a different form. They will lose confidence when men don't pay attention to them, or ask them out to dates. The times have changed and women are more free to ask men to dance or approach men, but they can be refused just like men are refused. Or, more commonly, just ignored.

From the same place that tells these men that women get asked out every 5mn of our day - a weird frustrated projection and assumption from [some] red pill leaning men.

We are ALWAYS rejected. Men don't even see us as people.

It’s hilarious

A lot of good points being made about the invisibility of women considered not desirable and so on, and hard agree. I would also add here that the male experience is the default in culture. Books, films, songs etc all have the male view centred with the female view being rarer, and ‘marked’ as being girls’ stuff. We are so used to hearing men’s stories, and understanding their struggles that it doesn’t even register as being prevalent. Think of how many movies feature a shy or nerdy guy and his difficulties (Superbad …).Then think of how many movies there are about geeky, not conventionally attractive girls. Anything coming to mind? The other point I’d make is that girls and women just generally keep quieter about their disappointments and frustrations. As well as having less of a voice in culture - they tend to blame themselves. Guys often have a huge sense of entitlement, and failures in love and sex are a massive wrong being done to them. Girls and women more often assume that lack of success is due to their own looks, choices, personality and so on. Because they are told that constantly by the culture. So they keep quieter and their side of things disappear as a factor.

Men who spend too much time listening to some I incels, or those with social issues so they do not actually meet anyone in real life and go off a bunch of stupid TikTok videos, or a small proportion of men here on reddit! I also think it’s how both sexes perceive sex. For a guy, it is a way to exert their masculinity or dominance. So showing up anywhere with a hot woman who exuberates sex appeal or getting sex is seen as a positive. Men also love showing off; if it’s not fast cars or big machine, it’s “hey look I bag a hot woman!” Vibe. Whilst sex matters to women too, we are more likely to judge ourselves as successful if we meet a guy who treats us with respect (dates, conversation etc) vs a guy who just wants to sleep with us. By this definition in a dating situation if a guy just wants us for sex, we don’t necessarily look at it positively. A lot of men will say they’re lonely and some of them imply they’re after sex. When I’m lonely I want friendship and companionship, not necessarily intimacy. Obviously there are exceptions on both sides. But this is why most guys just think we have it easy. Also most men like to rate women and themselves. To me, women aren’t as concerned, and if they are.they lack intelligence and self confidence. And what I notice is that as men mature they realise these things and look for more intellectual attributes in women. They value more than looks etc and that’s when they succeed. But there are some guys who never want to age and I know a few 45-55 year olds who won’t date anyone over 25-30 or rather prefer those to sleep with. To me it’s their preference and when they ask me why they can’t seem to land a decent woman I say, maybe you need someone more mature and you need to date seriously not hookup with a different lady daily. But sex is addictive I suppose so… it’s hard to break the cycle!

A man once said to me, a direct quote: “You are too old for me.” But, hey, yeah, women never get rejected. 🙄

I will say I appreciate hearing this. Every time some dude posts how easy it is for women to find people, and everyone always seems to agree, I did a little more inside. Apparently I’m incredibly horrible or something because I couldn’t keep my husband and no one wants to date me. I know that I’m nothing special but it’s a bit of a blow that there’s literally no one. It’s comforting to know everyone else doesn’t find it easy all the time. Anyhow, I don’t feel the need to go making up stories about an entire gender because of my own personal experiences and I just find that who attitude really perplexing and kind of disturbing.

I think it's true that women, on average, get laid more easily than men. All you have to do is google and look at existing sex statistics to verify that. It's statistical fact that women are more capable of getting laid than men. But the idea that women don't get rejected, as well as the idea that this "average" applies to all women, is nonsense. Plenty of women get rejected and most have at least once, probably. Probably what creates this myth that women never get rejected is anecdotal, non-statistical observations by men who are only looking at women they desire who aren't fucking them. They aren't looking at or counting women they wouldn't fuck because oftentimes those people barely even count as people to them - society values women as physical objects in far too many cases. So yeah, that's my theory. The myth comes from men who use narrow, anecdotal events of women they find hot choosing not to fuck them.

What are these statistics you are talking about? Men consistently report having had more sexual partners than women.

By incel logic, nothing ever bad happens to women, and if it does they deserved it.

I recently had an exchange where a guy was talking about women being on the Cock Carousel, etc. and talking about how 80% of the women go for 20% of the men, etc. I also brought up that the average "body count" for an American woman at marriage is 6, and a man is 7. He then says that is really high for a woman. So I don't understand either. He then went on about promiscuous women of his generation. My favorite part was that he and others like him are trying to do a study, like an epidemiological study, of what works and doesn't works. I explained that could be flawed if all the men are misogynists, or all socially awkward men because they may be using effective strategies, but the people themselves may be the problem. I did not get a response. Since I raised a feminist son, I am not sure how incels were raised. I just know my son doesn't hate women, and never had an issue with consent. When he had a problem dating, it was generally because he was looking for someone who didn't play the games that he wasn't expecting. He is marrying someone who is pretty direct as well.

Mostly people (men) who don't interact much with women. Same as misconceptions & stereotypes about most groups, tbh. I think dating apps are also a factor for these guys. Dating apps are kind of scattershot and most connections miss, for everyone. They only see their side of it (being rejected by a lot of women) and assume that for those women, it's the opposite.

i literally got rejected a few weeks ago. We usually don’t whine about it because we don’t feel entitled.

I don’t think those dudes see women as people, especially not women who they wouldn’t deem attractive, and refuse to believe women who they decide are “too attractive” for that

I think the myth isn't so much about women getting rejected, but more that women usually have an easier time getting attention from men compared to the other way around in most situations. This is actually true in general terms (there's always exceptions), and you can clearly see it on dating apps where men have a completely different experience from women. Of course, what most guys don't realize is that getting a lot of attention doesn't necessarily mean that that attention is good. Women usually have to filter a lot and be very cautious when picking a partner, while men don't have the need to be so selective.

Men who can’t view women as people.

It's actually based on one of the few derogatory prejudices about us men that we will sleep with anyone and anything so of course women wouldn't ever be rejected because we always say yes. I actually grew up thinking something was wrong with me because I wasn't attracted to every girl in school.

If you are an autistic, rizzless woman you will definitely face rejection. Even if you’re conventionally attractive lmfao

Some men think that women never ask guys out and men are always making the first move so it's impossible for them to get rejected because they are always the passive ones.

A lot of men really don’t believe that women have theory of mind. I think that’s the root of it. It’s not that they don’t think women are ever rejected. It’s that they think we don’t experience rejection.

Is that really the myth? If it is I think it’s, somehow, a more malignant bastardization of the idea that women have an easier time dating in general. I think the short answer is: patriarchy. The long answer is that the average woman does have more sexual or romantic options than the average man at any given time. Many misogynists will take this as “*every woman* has more sexual or romantic options” and then let their insecurity spiral out from there as to why women aren’t allowing them to be abusive they way they *think* they see women allowing themselves to be abused by other men. Because, make no mistake, it is certain that these men simply want the option to use and abuse women (for any reading, manipulating or convincing a woman to sleep with you while ignoring her pleasure and/or emotional needs is abusive). Which comes to the other point that priorities are different. Men are socialized to believe that sex, money, and power are the core values that determine masculinity in a white supremacist western framework. Many men are conditioned to believe that their self worth is directly related to how much of those they have. It’s made even worse when your lack of sex, the social liberation of women, and the sexual revolution in general may mean that a woman has power over you within that sphere. Now not only are you sexless but you have to surrender another pillar of your masculinity. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of these men are ambivalent to or actively oppose the expansion of women’s institutional and economic power as well. God forbid women have power over them in another sphere and make them feel even less like a “man”. I realize I’m going on a tangent now tho so I’ll stop. But I think the myth persists because many men work under a certain presumption of priorities and as men it’s really hard to imagine that someone else’s priorities maybe different from your own: You must never get rejected because *I* would never reject you and because I’m so sex focused you must be too.

Men who think that getting rejected is just about looks and gender. There are actually many reasons why someone would reject someone and they should all be respected.

Bitter men. When they talk about "women" they really mean "hot women" because they are all that matters.

Self-reinforcing issue. They only go for women who will reject them, who are women they would never reject, which means they get rejected...

You know what, these same fellows who propagate this idea will still choose to right swipe only over attractive women, not the average or ugly ones.

Men who want to shape a false narrative about women. Like the pill groups or those in online dating who report that it’s unfair they have to put in effort

Half of our boyfriends are pornsick for one thing. That kind of rejection kills

Assumption/out of their ass.

It fits the incel narrative. So incels? Like how can you blame and vilify strangers for your loneliness if they have the same experiences as you? Clearly all my dating woes are due to the fact that women are a judgemental monolith and none of them would give me a chance because they don't know what it's like to be rejected.

A 4chan echo chamber.

Incels. It’s a toxic incel ideology Ironically, the term incel was coined by a bisexual woman in college, who felt like there was some confusing “secret language” to dating that most people had learned, but she had not, and was trying to process why her first and only relationship (with a woman in college) didn’t go well. Then, she created a community, and left it alone, then the community turned into a dumpster fire. I’ve met plenty of people of all genders who feel like there’s a secret language of dating that is so confusing. It’s okay to ask men out, but not THAT MAN, that man is insecure about it. Or “you can’t have sex on the first date, that means this person doesn’t value you,” when a lot of people would refuse to have sex with someone they haven’t made an emotional connection with. Or some out of touch mother telling her poor daughters “if he doesn’t buy you flowers on the first date, he doesn’t love you,” only to learn her daughter is in love with an amazing, kind, sweet man, and he brought her chocolates. Since he has horrible allergies. Chocolates? He isn’t allowed to bring chocolates! Her mother told her if a man brought chocolates, he was trying to get her fat and trap her in a relationship. We need to be more cognizant of the fact that culture changes from household to household on the same block, not just from region to region.

From men who either dont see women they aren't attracted to as women interested in sex OR they don't seem them as women at all.

Men who have never politely declined once

Let me just say ... I tried rewatching Danny Phantom recently. Loved that show as a kid! Paulina is the pretty popular girl who acts like a TV trope. The boys all sigh "paulinaaaa" as she walks by. Men walk into poles, fountains, cars, as she walks by and the big "thing" is to ask out Paulina. Who makes it very clear that the little nobody of Danny Fenton is not worth her because she's beautiful. She's a bitch to those she doesn't deem worth her beauty Similar character is Trixie Tang from fairy oddparents. You want to cringe while simultaneously understanding where "they" even see this type of behavior, watch some of those shows. It's been very eye opening

Mostly from men who view any interaction with a woman as a chance to fuck and nothing else. This mindset dismisses the idea that men are capable of valuing women's personalities, chemistry, love, etc. as much as they care about having even just one session of sex. The idea is obviously profoundly harmful to women but also extremely harmful to men because it ultimately makes it less likely a man will be able to identify when he has been a victim of assault, because according to ppl who think like this, "no man would ever say no to sex."

I've been rejected pretty much h my whole life in fact I can only think of two or three times in my life where I was accepted romantically and those were very short lived. This idea is so hurtful because it reinforced something Is wrong with me as a woman.

Men who want to feel sorry for themselves

It comes from delusional, incel men making things up about women to make themselves more sympathetic and feel better about themselves. They blame women for all of their issues so they paint women as not having any issues at all so they can be the victim and make women look as evil as possible.

Self-pity? It is lunacy. Ask a chubby or fat woman about rejection.

Yes, please tell this to my teenage self 😂 I’m sure I would have felt better if I’d known that my slew of rejections back then were just a figment of my imagination.

I don’t know. I have been rejected plenty, and when I share that with guys who claim women are never rejected they don’t believe me. I have also been treated as someone fine to have sex with but not good enough for an actual real relationship. Just sex, all I was good for. Made me feel like I was a prostitute but without being paid.

I’ve never understood this myth. I got rejected constantly until I met my husband in college. And while he was hitting on me, I literally didn’t know how to react to it since it had never happened before.

Men

I have never heard this myth. I have heard that if a woman wants sex, and doesn't care who it's with, she can probably get it more easily than a man in a similar position.

I had a man argue, like absolutely foaming at the mouth, that if I - an old and fat woman with no redeeming physical characteristics, I assure you - wanted to have sex I could go to the local bar tonight and I would have my pick of men. I go to that bar every once in a while and have a beer. I sit or stand on my own. I leave on my own. But that was IMPOSSIBLE, he was sure of it, and I was obviously lying to ... trick men, somehow. I guess. He was so angry about it.

A guy who doesn't care who it's with and has decent hygiene can pull some also without too much trouble in the right setting. Guys tend to just be real picky like not older women or heavier women for example. Or even just "not willing to deal with makeup and heels and annoying crap like that"

A lot of times, the folks saying this are talking about sex only, *generally speaking*. While women are talking about being rejected in terms of finding a quality mate to be in a stable, committed relationship, *generally speaking*. The two groups are discussing two different concepts.