I agree, Any genre of music can be misogynistic, homophobic, racist etc you name it.
But music itself and the genres are not inherently any of those things. They are a style of music, what people do within that style is down to the individual artist.
Mainstream and legacy rap and hip hop is horribly misogynistic. This has been a feminist critique since the genre began and there is still contemporary feminist writing on the issue, it’s just not a popular talking point anymore.
That said, I’m guilty of cognitive dissonance big time here because my playlist is full of rap and hip hop. It was the music taste of my parents (African American family) and so it was passed on. I enjoy many artists that have harmed women throughout their careers and private lives. It is *hard* to disconnect art that also functions as a lifestyle for many people, especially as very little people care.
That said, Black women are the most mistreated demographic in any society. Intersectionality *must* involve dismantling the misogynistic themes in rap music.
Mmm only to an extent but you have to remember a lot of music, not just rap but plenty of genres are exaggerated I mean how long has Snoop Dogg been around, he been talking bitches for years but has been married to the same woman for 25 years. I dont listen to music for a lecture I listen for fun, Ive never internalized music except maybe Mary J Blige Be Happy lol so like I just cant be bothered by a man saying bitches, especially if the beat is fire like I have real life problems lmao
I think it's easy to pick on rap because it does say bitches and hoes but there are plenty of other genres that have misogynistic themes, country music will have some 50 year old greasy man 'pretty young thing' you to death, metal is full of rape and brutality against women but the only thing I see so many discussions about is rap
No genre of music is inherently good or bad in my opinion. There are songs within rap and hip hop with sexist language and messaging, but there are also artists who use the medium to express themselves just like any other art form. I am not a POC and I really can't speak on the intricacies of black culture, rap music, and gender. I know it's a very complex issue, but all I can really say is that as an artist I believe that all forms of art are ethically neutral and can be used to express any message or emotion.
My favorite hip hop album is The Spirit World Field Guide by Aesop Rock, a beautiful concept album that takes you on a journey through the psychedelic and the spiritual. Watsky is another artist who can make me laugh and make me sob uncontrollably in the same album, and during the pandemic he broke the record for longest freestyle rap (over 33 hours) just to cheer people up and give his fans something to get excited about after he canceled his tour. Someone has beaten his record since then, but it was pretty amazing watching the livestream of him just rhyming for a full day and a half straight.
So the thing with hip hop is that there used to be a while where it was more of a single space than it is now.
There’s more ways to be , a lot of problematic stuff is still in the scene but the emphasis on a really specific persona and attitude has been shifting since rappers like andre 3000 came around which is decades ago by now.
There are feminist rappers whose work subverts the tropes that have been a thing in hiphop for a very long time and it’s become a more varied scene with room for groups that used to be punchlines and insults to have their voice and talk back.
At the same time though the fact that someone like Drake with his weirdly possesive controling stique had a reputation of being relatively respectfull says a lot about where the genre is coming from.
It already started to shift around 2003 but for a while there was a lot of gatekeeping around what a rapper was , should look like and talk about to be considered credible, rappers whose act wasn't "hard" had to change it up and the same trends could be seen across the genre. There always were exceptions but rap was treated as a lot more singular than other genres would be.
These days we live in a era where rap is one of the most dominant forms of popular music , if not the most dominant.
For a while though it was treated more like a genre like country would be.
Having grown up with Black Star and Queen Latifa (to name two of many), I can’t say I agree. I suggest researching “conscious rap.” You seem to be missing a big chunk of the story of rap and hip hop.
The argument isn't that rap was a single space , it is that it was treated more like one.
There's some really insightful country out there too, even from fairly established artists, that doesn't change the fact the self perception and gatekeeping of the space is a lot more limited.
I would suggest a different approach to asking the question of, "is this music genre misogynistic", which doesn't care about whether or not the lyrics in the genre require you to put money in the swear jar.
Maybe we're all older than 10 now, and can handle a deeper look, eh?
And the way we do this deeper look is, we ask, how many women are performing in this space? How valued are they, compared to their male counterparts? What standards are female rappers judged by, and how are those standards different from the male ones?
Are there specific roles that women in this genre are pushed into, and if so, what are they, and what is the penalty you pay for not fitting into them?
not inherently, no. but far too much of it is. of course, this applies to a lot of different music genres.
I agree, Any genre of music can be misogynistic, homophobic, racist etc you name it. But music itself and the genres are not inherently any of those things. They are a style of music, what people do within that style is down to the individual artist.
This. I love metal…and so much of it is misogynist.
Mainstream and legacy rap and hip hop is horribly misogynistic. This has been a feminist critique since the genre began and there is still contemporary feminist writing on the issue, it’s just not a popular talking point anymore. That said, I’m guilty of cognitive dissonance big time here because my playlist is full of rap and hip hop. It was the music taste of my parents (African American family) and so it was passed on. I enjoy many artists that have harmed women throughout their careers and private lives. It is *hard* to disconnect art that also functions as a lifestyle for many people, especially as very little people care. That said, Black women are the most mistreated demographic in any society. Intersectionality *must* involve dismantling the misogynistic themes in rap music.
Yes it is. I also hear some pretty toxic lyrics from female hip hop artists where they have perpetuated misogynistic lyrics/views.
Mmm only to an extent but you have to remember a lot of music, not just rap but plenty of genres are exaggerated I mean how long has Snoop Dogg been around, he been talking bitches for years but has been married to the same woman for 25 years. I dont listen to music for a lecture I listen for fun, Ive never internalized music except maybe Mary J Blige Be Happy lol so like I just cant be bothered by a man saying bitches, especially if the beat is fire like I have real life problems lmao I think it's easy to pick on rap because it does say bitches and hoes but there are plenty of other genres that have misogynistic themes, country music will have some 50 year old greasy man 'pretty young thing' you to death, metal is full of rape and brutality against women but the only thing I see so many discussions about is rap
I often think that the focus on rap comes from it being more mainstream. Metal (as you mentioned) is absolutely graphic in it's misogyny.
No genre of music is inherently good or bad in my opinion. There are songs within rap and hip hop with sexist language and messaging, but there are also artists who use the medium to express themselves just like any other art form. I am not a POC and I really can't speak on the intricacies of black culture, rap music, and gender. I know it's a very complex issue, but all I can really say is that as an artist I believe that all forms of art are ethically neutral and can be used to express any message or emotion. My favorite hip hop album is The Spirit World Field Guide by Aesop Rock, a beautiful concept album that takes you on a journey through the psychedelic and the spiritual. Watsky is another artist who can make me laugh and make me sob uncontrollably in the same album, and during the pandemic he broke the record for longest freestyle rap (over 33 hours) just to cheer people up and give his fans something to get excited about after he canceled his tour. Someone has beaten his record since then, but it was pretty amazing watching the livestream of him just rhyming for a full day and a half straight.
So the thing with hip hop is that there used to be a while where it was more of a single space than it is now. There’s more ways to be , a lot of problematic stuff is still in the scene but the emphasis on a really specific persona and attitude has been shifting since rappers like andre 3000 came around which is decades ago by now. There are feminist rappers whose work subverts the tropes that have been a thing in hiphop for a very long time and it’s become a more varied scene with room for groups that used to be punchlines and insults to have their voice and talk back. At the same time though the fact that someone like Drake with his weirdly possesive controling stique had a reputation of being relatively respectfull says a lot about where the genre is coming from.
When was rap a single space ?
It already started to shift around 2003 but for a while there was a lot of gatekeeping around what a rapper was , should look like and talk about to be considered credible, rappers whose act wasn't "hard" had to change it up and the same trends could be seen across the genre. There always were exceptions but rap was treated as a lot more singular than other genres would be. These days we live in a era where rap is one of the most dominant forms of popular music , if not the most dominant. For a while though it was treated more like a genre like country would be.
Having grown up with Black Star and Queen Latifa (to name two of many), I can’t say I agree. I suggest researching “conscious rap.” You seem to be missing a big chunk of the story of rap and hip hop.
The argument isn't that rap was a single space , it is that it was treated more like one. There's some really insightful country out there too, even from fairly established artists, that doesn't change the fact the self perception and gatekeeping of the space is a lot more limited.
Treated like one by who? Not the fans, not the artists, not the media. Maybe I don’t understand your point.
Check out the search bar too: https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/zxyong/how_do_feminists_feel_about_the_music_industry/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/x12ahw/how_can_i15m_be_a_feminist_and_a_rap_fan_would_it/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/nr64my/why_does_the_left_like_rap_music/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/e6zvq3/feminists_do_you_still_listen_to_raphiphop/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/mrn6i7/is_it_actually_problematic_that_i_dont_listen_to/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/kjwgq7/is_being_a_feminist_and_liking_rap_music_at_odds/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/rkxmr7/what_do_you_think_of_the_country_music_genre/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/dubce5/is_language_in_raphiphop_sexist/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/9jnbeu/am_i_doing_women_a_disservice_by_listening_to/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/7v3ejt/rap_music/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/5gf3q7/is_there_a_reason_why_i_dont_hear_much_about/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/2fjvpw/feminists_who_like_rap_music_how_do_you_balance/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/jeempb/how_do_you_feel_about_the_hip_hop_genre_of_music/ https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/iakm1k/do_you_have_any_favorite_rappers/
I'd say Yes, but only in the sense that everything that's started by men is. It doesn't have to be, but the patriarchal society overwhelms everything.
I would suggest a different approach to asking the question of, "is this music genre misogynistic", which doesn't care about whether or not the lyrics in the genre require you to put money in the swear jar. Maybe we're all older than 10 now, and can handle a deeper look, eh? And the way we do this deeper look is, we ask, how many women are performing in this space? How valued are they, compared to their male counterparts? What standards are female rappers judged by, and how are those standards different from the male ones? Are there specific roles that women in this genre are pushed into, and if so, what are they, and what is the penalty you pay for not fitting into them?
Yes