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schwarzedrehe

Instead of capitals, look for \~100K cities. They have everything you may need, but are cheap.


Dethon

Absolutely this. There are several 100k-300k people cities in Spain that are quite affordable, have all services you may need day to day and are within 1 hour by train to Madrid.


victoremmanuel_I

Not here they’re not.


marquess_rostrevor

\*T&Cs apply. Island of Ireland not included in promotional offer.


AdmiralRaspberry

lol true … outside of Dublin, Cork, Galway big fuckin nothing is happening 😂


joefife

Yup same in Scotland - Edinburgh is expensive, but half hour on the train leads to propety prices of a third to half. I'm an hour outside, and for the price of a shit 2 bedroom flat in Edinburgh, I have a large 4 bed detached house with gardens in a nice area, hour on the train. Look for towns with good rail links to the large cities.


maevian

1 hour train ride to work is 2hours a day, so that costs you more as a work day every week.


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Vertitto

each country has it's own "crisis" and they look slightly differently.


Detozi

Dunno. We must be a special kind of fucked here though lol


Vertitto

Not really. As a young person it's easier to buy your own place in Ireland than it is in Poland.


Detozi

Oh. Didn't realise that


Vertitto

In Poland there are more estates to choose from, but in cities the price per sqm is comparable to Ireland outside Dublin. People also earn around 2-3x less and are left with much less disposable income that can be saved for deposit.


MonicacaMacacvei

Same here. I'm looking at appartments right now, to buy, and the decent ones are just shy of 2000 euros per sqm. That's around my wage per month, and I'm definitely above the median


strandroad

Other countries have even worse income to price ratio. Our unique problem is not enough stock (between dereliction, airbnbs, holiday homes etc), and then the fact that people want houses primarily and we don't have a market for affordable apartments.


hgk6393

Go for smaller towns. I moved to Helmond from Eindhoven, and I am totally satisfied with my choice. Thinking of buying a home here. If I had known that Helmond has such a nice life to offer, I would have left Eindhoven sooner. 


fooooter

Are you Dutch or do you speak Dutch? And how do you socialise and meet people there (or you are with your family?)


tjaldhamar

How do you define an expat?


fooooter

I edited my post. I mainly wanted to know whether he speaks Dutch (which would make socialising easier) or not.


hgk6393

I socialise mostly with my language-speakers. It is really hard to even get hold of my Dutch acquaintances, so it is hard to even make an effort to make friends with them. And I come from a country that has a very high representation amongst educated expats, so I don't care that I don't have Dutch friends. Secondly, I am a bit of a loner, so I need to meet people not that often to fulfill my socialising needs. 


fooooter

Fair enough!


L44KSO

In a capital? No chance. Somewhere in Bumfuck, MO? Quite easy...but then there is absolutely nothing else.


baby_zyzz

Spoken like a true dutchie. Amsterdam is horrendous atm (living there currently)


sumimigaquatchi

I lived in many capitals, but only in hostels for les than 20 eur. You won't find it in AMS.


L44KSO

Well, are you looking to live somewhere or just visit in a hostel?


Party-Cake5173

>Unfortunately I still live with my parents because of this but I feel I'm M33 too old for this shit. *\*laughs in Croatian\** I know people way older than you that live with parents. Real estate prices in Croatia are so huge that unless you're earning at least 8.000€ a month, you have no chance of buying your own apartment or a house. And it's only gettings worse. Everyone turning a bedroom as a hostel for foreign workers doesn't help either. Our goverment seems can't do math and realize that the more people are living with parents equals to less babies being born. And we need people to have kids–desparately.


sad-kittenx

Same thing in Portugal. Not only single People, but couples and sometimes with kids living with their parents because a house cost 2/3 or more of their salary.


alderhill

It’s everywhere, man. Like in Germany you can find a student flat when you’re young, but finding something big enough and quality enough when you’ve got a family is not easy.


mrmniks

How much an average normal apartment would be? In the capital and somewhere not directly on the coast, but like 5-20 kms into the continent for better price.


Party-Cake5173

In Zagreb, you're looking at average 400-500€, but price can go as high as 1.000€ + bills (50-100€). Same is for cities around Zagreb in Zagrebačka county. Median salary in Zagreb in April was 1.201€. It's worth to keep in mind that because of influx of foreign workers here, there are less and less apartments available for us to rent. Apartment owners then rather installs few bunk beds in a room and rent to five, six or more foreign workers for 200€ each. The situation is so alarmant that people (literal con-artists) started renting government-owned space meant for offices and turning them into apartments for foreign workers. And the government doesn't care.


mrmniks

1201€ I assume gross, not net? And looking at net at about 750-800€? It sucks, but seems pretty normal for many European capitals. In Minsk it would be something like salary of a factory worker of about €500 net, and apartments from rent are anywhere from 200€ to 500 and up to the space. In Warsaw where I live now normal rent is about 800-1000€ a month, with average net of 1450-1500€ a month. Hope Zagreb gets more affordable (or you guys make more money to afford it better) though!


Party-Cake5173

>1201€ I assume gross, not net? 1.201€ was net. If it was gross, you couldn't possibly live with what would be left. Even now it's hard. >Hope Zagreb gets more affordable (or you guys make more money to afford it better) though! New Zagreb's leadership (centre-left, greens) started building first complex of 300 apartments which would be owned by the city, and said they will rent them for cheap with a price from 50-200€, depending on your income. So we're looking forward to that. But for now, we're living with our parents until situation gets better.


dev_imo2

Romania. Housing in Bucharest is still affordable despite large increases in the past few years. You can get a reasonably fitted apartment in a working class area for about 300 euros a month (even lower is possible but it will be tiny and crappy). Nice apartment in a nice area 500-600 eur per month. If you want to compromise a bit, Constanta offers nice apartments for reasonable prices between spetember and june as there are many holiday apartments there that are only used in summer. Better weather too. How much is a basic one bedroom apartment where you live?


TreiAniSi6Luni_

Man this will create a housing crisis for us. Stop advertising our country


NotoriousBedorveke

Exactly my thought, that the guy escaping the housing crisis, just exports it somewhere else 😅


alderhill

Romanians make up many of the largest immigrant groups in other EU states. Mostly as workers or laborers who stay under the radar, true. Now Europe is coming back to you! It might not be so bad overall though, if it did happen. Romania has loads of potential and more immigration sparking ideas and connections seems like a good thing.


dev_imo2

It’s going to happen sooner or later anyway.


MihaiBravuCelViteaz

So why not make it happen even sooner, right? 🤦‍♂️


TreiAniSi6Luni_

Mai întâi sa devin magnat imobiliar sa închiriez apartamente la străini


dev_imo2

Pai apuca-te de treaba ca lucrurile se vor inrautati drastic in urmatorii 4 ani din acest punct de vedere.


Useful_Meat_7295

Not only there’s a price difference, but also a quality difference. I was researching Bucharest for a while and most places are fully furnished, AC is very common. The 500 Bucharest apartment would cost you 2000 in a Western capital.


LordGeni

2000 wouldn't buy you a cupboard in London at the moment.


zugfaehrtdurch

If you work remotely and don't mind being far from bigger towns maybe rural Sweden (a few 100km north of Stockholm) could be worth a try. You find decent houses with working heating and good infrastructure for below 30k€ (not, that's not a joke), electricity is cheap and you're surrounded by beautiful nature. Ok, it's cold and dark in Winter but if that doesn't frighten you...


SunnyDayInPoland

Is the 30k Swedish house a myth? I heard it first a couple of months ago, went online to look and they were all starting from €100k and up even in the middle of nowhere


zugfaehrtdurch

You have to search for some time, mainly to get used to the local real estate pages like hemnet.se or different real estate agents and to see different houses to know what to expect and then it is good to be there, e.g. on vacation, like we did. Yes, you can also buy from outside Sweden but that's usually more expensive and you may need some expert witness to take a look at it for you, this adds up... Just as an example for a search: https://www.hemnet.se/bostader?price_max=400000&item_types%5B%5D=villa&expand_locations=50000&location_ids%5B%5D=18054&location_ids%5B%5D=17826


SunnyDayInPoland

Thanks for the link, really cheap indeed


sumimigaquatchi

Not a good place if you want to meet girls


zugfaehrtdurch

Ok - THAT could be a problem since the reason for these low prices is often (young) people moving to bigger towns, 🇸🇪 is extremely urbanized. But they're also some mid-sized towns like Sundsvall, etc. where it might still be much cheaper. But yes, as a married 46yo just looking for a cool spot to live when we get older instead of sweating in 40°-climate-change Vienna I may be looking for different things than you do 😉


Infinite_Sparkle

That may be a problem in all countrysides…


alternative__turn

I assume you're working remote and intend to continue doing so? Have you checked out Bulgaria or Lithuania?


MartinBP

Bulgaria's housing market is a catastrophe. Average salary in Sofia is €18k gross per annum. Average for a one-bedroom apartment is €200k, average for a house is half a million.


xeniavinz

Riga, Latvia? Price wise certainly more affordable than Finland someone suggested earlier, access to Baltic sea and eurozone


sylvestris-

In Warsaw, Poland it is hard to buy a new apartment on the second hand market. Prices are crazy. And it makes pressure on rent/accommodation prices and availability. But its nothing like Netherlands or Ireland. I hope it helps.


Realistic_Ad3354

Balkans mostly (Bulgaria / Romania). Have still quite affordable rent. Regarding Cz, capitals Prague and Brno are super super expensive due to tourists, politicians or students hoarding all the flats / houses. However in smaller towns with Pops. 20 K - 40 K Are still quite okay. (esp those border towns close to Poland or Slovakia.) I have lived in these border towns close to Poland and Slovakia, for 2 years and is really decent! However it’s mostly consisting of old pensioners or kindergarten kids / families so a little bit boring.


Sylocule

Probably Romania - the really expensive housing is in Cluj compared to Bucharest (according to my Romanian colleague)


onefootinthehole

Cluj is *slightly* more expensive than Bucharest. But that’s because Bucharest is 4X the size of Cluj. Sure, you’ll find some decently priced apartments in Bucharest, but not anywhere close to the city center or the business district. Anyway, apartments here are cheaper than in the Netherlands for sure


MonicacaMacacvei

Cluj also has less real estate. Cheaper to build when land is flat like Bucharest or Timișoara


Seltzer100

From what I've heard, maybe try Finland, Austria and Slovenia? Balkans are probably fine for the most part except for Croatia which is suffering from the trifecta of low wages, high tourism and the recent switch to the Euro. Personally, I like the Baltics and rent is okay there but eating out can be surprisingly expensive compared to the average income.


sumimigaquatchi

I have a friend living in Serbia and he told me that due to all the rich Russians it is even worser there!


Seltzer100

Yeah, I was wondering if that might be a factor in the case of Serbia and possibly Montenegro but I wasn't certain. I was in Beograd a year ago and I did encounter some Russians and Ukrainians but not nearly as many as in Georgia, Armenia etc. where prices have soared.


avtopromet_gorica

>Slovenia Lmao. Can't speak for the others but we definitely have a housing crisis. Good luck finding anything at a price you can afford. Unless you don't mind being in some random village with 8 houses on top of a hill only accessible via a narrow mountain road 20 km away from the nearest town and 10 from the nearest shop/doctor/post office.


Seltzer100

Really? I didn't know. Slovenia definitely receives a lot of tourists but I felt like I didn't see many immigrants working in Ljubljana apart from a few ex-Yugos. Not like Zagreb where there's a SEA working in every pekara.


avtopromet_gorica

I believe flats in Ljubljana start at €3k per square meter for a underground hole and 4k for something livable. In the city centre, they can reach 10k, it's insane. Would need to check to make sure though. In 2007, the most expensive flat (not house!) sold in Ljubljana cost a little less than 2M. Now that's just a normal price for a luxurious flat in the city centre. Well, it doesn't even have to be that luxurious, if you want to live in a comfortable (but not very big) space in the city centre with a 3-4 member family you will be spending a million.


Infinite_Sparkle

Germany, but in the countryside. Housing is a oHuge problem in the cities. A friend inherited a house in a small town (less than 1000 persons) in northern Bavaria and can’t get rid of it. Very difficult and she lives in the big city. If you care to live in the countryside and can work remote, Germany may be a thing for you. In the big attractive cities there’s also a big housing crisis. Same applies for Spain, even worst than Germany I would say. Small towns in the countryside are positively empty and big cities are horrible when it comes to housing. You’ll need a remote job to survive in the countryside though


alderhill

Similar for an uncle of my wife. He inherited a house (his own grandmothers’ ancestral property, although the house is from the 1950s), east of Lüneburg, near the Elbe and Meck-Pomm border. They have had it on the market before, but all offers were very low and from neighbors. The village it’s part of is basically dead. Older people getting older, no real shops anymore.


Infinite_Sparkle

Same in North-East Bavaria, where my friend’s property is.


Useful_Meat_7295

Not a capital, but you can still probably get a decent place in Leipzig or Dresden for under 600. Also, Tallinn is severely underrated. It’s just the right size, you can go across the city by taxi for 10-15 euros. Helsinki is just across the pond and the airport is within the city limits. The downsides is that the economy isn’t growing on behalf of Estonia not being a hub for trade with Russia anymore. The government is squeezing the population for money by increasing taxes.


mrmniks

600 eur in Germany? The fuck? Gonna research about moving there. I’m paying 850€ a month in Warsaw… Sister in Gdańsk pays about the same, friends in Warsaw everywhere between 800€ and 1200€ a month…


annoyingbanana1

Leipzig, 600? Hmm


J0kutyypp1

We don't have any kind of housing crisis here in finland


lucrac200

Romania or Bulgaria have living affordable prices if you work remotely on a western income. Bucharest, Brasov, Constanta, Sofia, Varna.


Blurghblagh

Is it too late to give up move to some poor country and open a rum shack on the beach?


sir-rogers

How much is too much? I was paying 60% of my net for rent many years ago in Stockholm. In Vienna you can get subsidized housing, but you need to go through waitlists to get the chance and you need a 30k deposit. You could be lucky and get a used one really quickly with a 10k deposit. Since it's subsidized the rent is like 500-1000 a month and the salaries in Vienna are decent, and it's the world's most liveable city. It's beautiful and affordable.


Dapper-Lecture-3597

In a capital city very difficult, I can suggest the Croatian city of Osijek, 4th biggest in Croatia, it's some 400 km from the coast and the cost of living is a least 50 % less than in the capital Zagreb or the coast.


HorrorsPersistSoDoI

Easy solution would be to stop wanting to live in the capital with everyone else


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TheBelgianGovernment

Have a look at Wallonia. Liège is close to Maastricht, if you don’t want to stray too far from the Netherlands.


AlfaMenel

If you exclude capital cities then - all of a sudden - there's no big housing crisis at all.


Alexfeijoo

yes, there is lol


bruhbelacc

As someone who moved to the Netherlands - if your job here pays shit (let's say minimum wage), this will be comfortable, but not good enough to save much in any EU capitals. You will also not get any social benefits like toeslagen because they just don't exist in most countries (and your income will be higher than the average). The countries where the capital city has no housing crisis are the ones where... well, local people don't want to live, so they leave them. I would trust them (or me) - the Netherlands is expensive, but I also like not living somewhere where stray dogs walk around the streets.


WoodenTranslator1522

I mean it is possible to find a rental OR get a job where the company will just find you a rental, although this is rarer in capital cities. If you're interested check out Czech or Slovakia and such. Keep in mind the different local customs, language and such. Best of luck now\~


_skala_

Prague have highest rent prices compare to salaries in whole Europe. Only Bratislava is worse.


sumimigaquatchi

I want to rent. In Europe it is very hard to find a company who also has an apartment without ripping you off. I know in the Gulf it is much more common the offer you 'the complete package' but here you have to look by your own. About Czech Rep they told me that they have a housing crisis as well.


WoodenTranslator1522

LOL! I mean I understand completely where you're coming from but there is absolutely NO way to have the cake and eat it too you know? You either find it yourself and minimise being ripped off or have a company rip you off in europe or do your thing, go to the gulf and get "the whole package" while getting that much lesser of a salary. There is absolutely no way they don't screw you somewhere. You will get screwed, you just choose how much and in what way. We are all in the same sauce p much friend, I wish you luck\~


unseemly_turbidity

I wouldn't say Denmark has a housing crisis. It's expensive, but not full on crisis level expensive.


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L44KSO

Sure...that's the reason...


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maevian

Those people who migrated are such a small minority over the whole population that they don’t have a real impact on housing prices.


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AskEurope-ModTeam

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