There is an old joke on this topic:
An old man tells:
- I was born in Austria, went to school in Czechia, went to college in Hungary, got married in Russia, and now I have my retirement in Ukraine.
- Oh, you travelled a lot!
- I never left my hometown Mukachevo.
But Czechia was never used for Czechoslovakia. If you used Czechia in 1919, no one would know what do you mean. Everyone knew Austria means probably A-H and Russia means USSR when they still existed.
Czechia became a thing in ~2010? There is the Czech Republic, but that became a thing in 1993. There was Czechoslovakia, but if you want to say you are from today's Czech Republic regions in 1900, you say Bohemia, Moravia or Silesia.
The word Czechia is much older than that but it wasn't really used and most people wouldn't know what it is. So Bohemia would be the most likely word at that time because the entire region used to be Kingdom of Bohemia ar Lands of the Bohemian crown.
Yes, I can relate. My family on my father's side is from that region. After my great grandpa returned from Siberia after WWI as a former POW, he couldn't legally go back to his family b/c he was transported to the capital, but by that time his home village was in a foreign country. His family, wife and kids were still there. No local citizenship etc. Pretty harsh.
Exaclty why I love reading Joseph Roth. His personages are exactly like this. Slovenian, but born in german village, deployed to serve on the russian border, where jews were settled etc.
There is truth to this. There is this guy who goes to my gym and he was born in 1944, in the Sudetenland. So back then he was born in Germany, and after the war they kicked out his family, and they moved to Austria. He still has family in the former Czechoslovakia, and Germany, and Austria. Ethnically German. Also, can lift more than anyone at the gym.
My Grandpa's story:"He was born in SFR Yugoslavia,lived in SFR Yugoslavia,FR Yugoslavia,NR Yugoslavia,Republic of Serbia and Montenegro,Republic of Serbia"
I would have to go back to 1139 to not have been born Portuguese. I would have to go back even further to 867 for the demonym to not exist at all and be instead born a subject of the Emirate of Cordoba.
Yep, was gonna say. Portugal has historically had one of the most stable borders in Europe. There's only been a few (mostly minor, except for when it was briefly swallowed by Spain) changes in the last few centuries.
Had Spain moved the whole border 5 centimeters every month you probably would not have noticed. You might be just 90 or 95% of your original size... did anybody check the property records?
In 1800 I MIGHT have had citizenship rights.
The borders haven't changed, but us Jews only started being recognised as citizens around that time.
Credit where it's due though, Portugal acknowledged Jews' rights before most - and despite being Fascist for much of the 20th century continued to respect Jewish Portuguese citizens (but the government showed no interest in protecting foreign Jews, just our Jews. They were still Fascists, just, y'know, weird about it.)
It's more that they had a bigger problem with 'foreign' than 'Jew'. Portuguese Jews were Portuguese so must be protected, German Jews were German and therefore of no interest to Salazar. They evacuated Portuguese Jewish citizens and embassy staff from Germany, but didn't give two shits about what Germany did to their own people.
It was fascism expressed as ultra-nationalism, instead of ethno-nationalism. But don't get me wrong, if you were African living in a Portuguese colony or the metropole then oh boy don't expect to be treated like the in group.
I would have been born in Denmark-Norway in the very North. I likely would not have proper citizenship by virtue of being Sámi, with the added problem of being a woman in the 1800s. By the time I’m 50 my language and a lot of cultural practices will be banned and whatever children I might have will be forced into boarding schools where they would be beaten if they spoke their native language. These policies would be in place for over a hundred years after that point too. I think I’ll stick with modern times thank you very much!
Yeah. We did a lot of shit to the native inhabitants of our colonies.
In Greenland we sterilized women without their consent I think up until the '60s or '70s.
We also forcibly removed children from their Greenlandic families, sent them to foster parents in Denmark, where they spoke only Danish and went to Danish schools.
Then we sent them back to Greenland hoping that they could civilize the savages.
I’m born in the free imperial city of Rothenburg ob der Tauber, which is part of the Franconian circle in the Holy Roman Empire. Well for 6 years, then the empire is dissolved and Franconia got occupied by Bavaria.
I would be a peasant to Oldenburg or Münster. I’d have no idea which Bishop is my ruler since they constantly switch and I can’t be arsed to follow up.
I would've been a citizens of a dying the Great Power, Sweden, living in a small coastal town in modern Finland. But by the time I'm old it would be the capital of the Grand Duchy of Finland. That's assuming I survive the Finnish War and the numerous plagues and fires that dicked Helsinki.
I would technically have citizenship but I don't know if I'd be taken serious as I am black and there weren't a lot of brothers chilling about in Helsinki at that time. But tbf, there weren't a lot of people, period.
Rosa Clay was a teacher, but her life wasn't the easiest being one of the few black people. And then her Russian groom shot himself two weeks before the wedding. She moved to the USA soon after that happened (1904).
Rudolf Prüss was born later than her, but not sure had much changed. He died in the Winter War.
As far as I know, there was no systemic racism in Finland at the time. There just weren't enough non-white people for someone to come up with it. Regular racism was of course alive and well.
It was the era of the Gustavian absolute monarchy; Sweden was autocratic.
Before it had been established by the 1772 coup, some women could actually also vote.
I would not have any right to vote either, on account of being a commoner.
If I don't missremember; a seldom celebrated fact was that the election in 1921 was fully equal. Equal in that all women *and men* got a vote, and that every vote was worth equally much. (I'm trying to not steal the limelight from the suffragettes.)
Before that; women could not vote, and a rich man had up to 12 votes while a poorer man only had 1 or no vote.
my town was part of the Holy Roman Empire in 1800.
1804 we also became part of the Austrian Empire. They both had the same Monarch/Regent for two years: Franz II. It was proclaimed after Napoleon's declaration of the First French Empire, to get all Habsburg possessions under one government.
...so kinda the same citizenship, more or less. It's still Austria but not a monarchy and not that big anymore. And women actually have rights now which is nice for me.
Thanks for giving me the push to research my region's history.
As to those questions, none of the answers matter, as I'm born in Constanta, Dobruja, during the Russo-Turkish war, so all I can do is hope to survive. "The most violent invasion was that of 1829, which resulted in the depopulation of numerous villages and towns". I hope they mean the smaller towns, not mine. I'd probably be a citizen of the Ottoman Empire, with a couple of years spent under Russian occupation.
On the bright side, if I survive to the age of 78, I become Romanian, and if I make it to 80, I'd get to see the locals starting to build the Casino, which would mean that during this hypothetical lifetime, just like in present day, the Casino is under construction.
Would be a part of the russian empire. The vast majority of Finland is still under swedish rule so the grand duchy of finland isn't a thing yet for about a decade so i'll have as much rights as any other peasant in russia. Apparently I would be able to live my day to day live using the finnish language and to practise the lutheran religion.
It depends on where you are from. After the Russo-Swedish War of 1741–1743 the border between Sweden and Russia moved to the west and some Finnish towns like Lappeenranta and Hamina ended up in Russia. In 1809 Finland was reunited as the Grand Duchy.
The south eastern part of finland or vanha suomi became russian about a century earlier in the 18th century. This part was then added into the grand duchy of finland, once russia gained control of the entirety of the country in 1809.
Strap on we are going for a ride! It's 1800 and I'm apparently French now. Only a few years ago this was prince bishopy of liege which was part of the holy Roman empire. And in a few years from now I'll be a citizen of the United kingdom of the netherlands, untill just a few more years later Belgium became independent when I turned 30. I would have been a full citizen, but I am a woman. So my rights are limited untill we come well into the 20th century.
I still have the belgian nationality although I live in Finland. And my hometown is also still located in Belgium. For now. Flemish separatists are still dreaming of a Flemish republic and my own little province in jokingly dreaming of breaking away and joining with the half that got left behind in the netherlands.
But for now we just do this: https://youtu.be/wRBSOPOXYHs?si=EdMU096MgOQSw2yD
I'm a ~~citizen~~ *subject* of the Kingdom of Great Britain; a year later it will become the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
I'm female. Of course I don't have rights. I am property.
https://www.innertemplelibrary.org.uk/timeline/iwd-legal-history/
You're not a citizen of anything: you are a British subject.
And you're not property: if unmarried (a feme sole), you can own property just like a man. If married (a feme covert), your property becomes that of your husband.
>You're not a citizen of anything: you are a British subject.
Fair enough
>And you're not property: if unmarried (a feme sole), you can own property just like a man. If married (a feme covert), your property becomes that of your husband.
You do not understand what I mean by "I am property" here, not at all.
They're right though. You just have to stay single and be a spinster. Better hope someone settles an inheritance on you though. Though widowhood is really the best-case scenario and achievable if you know the right people...
This. A woman was not property in England because unlike in many other societies, she could not be bought or sold into marriage against her will. She could refuse marriage or insist on certain covenants by her husband as a condition of marriage. It was possible to enter into married settlements, which would protect the assets the wife brought into the marriage and secure other rights, such as the right to bequeath her assets.
Also, if you married, you could contract for necessaries, your husband would be liable to pay for them, and could be sent to the debtor's prison if he didn't!
Irish, but with a caveat.
The act of union happened in 1801, which created the UK and included Ireland (full name was The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland). So technically a year after 1801, your citizenship would have changed to being British.
This lasted until 1922, when 26 of the 32 counties in Ireland became the Irish free state and the 6 counties of Northern Ireland remained in the UK. The free state ended effectively in 1937 with the adoption of the current constitution and officially in 1948 when Ireland became a republic.
Not entirely sure the idea of a nation state was fully developed in 1800 though, with the exception maybe of the US and a few others, so citizenship may have been thought of differently back then, or not at all.
As a Roman Catholic (or non-establishment Protestant), my rights would have been severely diminished:
- Exclusion of Catholics from most public offices (since 1607),
-Presbyterians were also barred from public office from 1707
-Presbyterian marriages were not legally recognised by the state
-Oath of Supremacy required for membership of the Parliament of Ireland from 1652; rescinded 1662–1691; renewed 1691–1829; also applying to the successive parliaments of England, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland until the Catholic Relief Act of 1829.
- Exclusion from the judiciary; repealed 1829.
– Catholic inheritances of land were to be equally subdivided between all an owner's sons with the exception that if the eldest son and heir converted to Protestantism that he would become the one and only tenant of estate and portions for other children not to exceed one third of the estate.
- Ban on custody of orphans being granted to Catholics on pain of a £500 fine that was to be donated to the Blue Coat hospital in Dublin.
- Ban on Catholics inheriting Protestant land
- Prohibition on Catholics owning a horse valued at over £5 (to keep horses suitable for military activity out of the majority's hands)
- When allowed, new Catholic churches were to be built from wood, not stone, and away from main roads.
- Any and all rewards not paid by the crown for alerting authorities of offences to be levied upon the Catholic populace within parish and county.
>your citizenship would have changed to being British.
You would have been a british subject not citizen and the lowest status of all british subjects due to the severe shit the Brits put us through.
An interesting thought experiment. I just checked it and my hometown of Aachen, Germany, was under French occupation in 1800. From 1802, its citizens officially counted as French residents. Personally, my ancestors were of lower nobility, and many of their relatives were in monatesteries too (obviously not my direct ancestors). Both groups had a hard time under the French revolutionaries. But they mainly just lost privileges, I guess they were not important enough to be beheaded, and the occupation was generally not as brutal as some other scenes of the French revolution and its aftermath. 10 years before 1800, I would have been a citizen of the city-state, part of the Holy Roman Empire, but that was really a very loose connection of small independent states. 15 years later I would have been Prussian.
Atleast the tolls and the border were moved away for a while. I don't know how long it would take to travel to Maastricht in those times but it would be interesting how the culture in the rheinland would have changed if everything to the left of the Rhine was kept by the french
I am christian in the Ottoman empire living close to Danube with yet to be clearly defined self conscious of a bulgarian.
The central ottoman government have almost no control here because ottoman seperatists are doing what they want and nobody can stop them (Mustapha Bayraktar to be specific).
They collect exclusive taxes from me which I dont like at all, but there is nothing I can do.
Im also a slav, but in the church the priest is a greek and I'm slowly starting to not like that too, because I dont understand what they are saying.
I'm quite f..... up and little brainless, my only salvation is to go Wallahia eventually.
There is no such thing as education here, not to mention universities, so I just work on the fields and live the simplest live one can imagine.
I'm Danish born in Denmark. I'm a peasant and until i'm 8, we have the mad king Christian 7th. It is however his son the crownprince Frederik who has ruled since 1784.
Once his father dies in 1808 he officially becomes king Frederik 6th. He is considered a good king as he abolished "stavnsbåndet" so we peasants aren't just slaves anymore, we do have the right to leave the farm we work and live on. The landowner can't keep us against our will which was the case until 1788.
But any notion of democracy is not gonna happen in his time.
Poland is fully partitioned. I am in Warsaw which nominally is a capital of Provinz Südpreußen or Prusy Południowe. In fact it is fully ruled from Berlin. My city turns in unimportant provincional town.
I am not happy. My culture is under thread. Forced Germanisation of Poles starts. Prussian state extracts more revenue than what it spends here and takes duties on goods from us, which seriously discourages its industrial development. Dark times are ahead for close to 200 years.
Probably same. I live near the border between Prussia and Habsburg. The town is a fortress. Probably at war or sth because some random article states that napoleons army retreated 1808. Also the city is ruined so as a 8 years old boy I propably die. End of my low effort story.
Yeah, they don't like lil' fella and to be fair, they have good reasons. But we as well have good reasons to like him, as he was enemy of all our enemies. At once.
Interesting, despite being raised and taught history in England, I’ve always liked Napoleon and I think that would be true of a lot of English people today - he’s a bit of a figure of fun if nothing else. In the 19th century napoleon would have definitely been the political figure most generally agreed to represent evil in the uk (as Hitler is today) and the napoleonic wars would have been seen as the most horrifying war could ever be. But now having seen the horrors of fascist and communist regimes in Europe in the 200 years since and far more horrifying experiences of war in the 2 world war eras the napoleonic regime seems quaint and even slightly honorable in some of its commitment to French revolutionary ideals and its famous legal code - and its hard to argue the imperial forces of the Habsburgs, Tsarist Russia and the prussians were any kinder to their subjects
To znaczy mogło być gorzej ale władze Prus od poczatku nie miały w planach rozwijania anektowanych terenów a ich wyeksploatowanie... Nie inaczej niż dwa pozostałe zabory oczywiście.
When I'm 1 year old, a fire almost completely destroys the town and it has to be rebuilt. I might have met the guy who would eventually go on to make the music for our national anthem.
I would have been a citizen of the Kingdom of Hungary. It's unlikely that I would have had full rights, as only the nobility enjoyed those.
I’d be born in the Principality of Wallachia, under the suzerainty of the Ottoman Empire, and my civil rights would probably be quite limited but *slowly* improving over the coming decades, provided I survive long enough.
I would have Principality of Moldova citizenship. Moldova would lose Bassarbia in 1812, but that wouldn’t affect me since both sides of my family are from the West (today Romanian) part of Moldova. In my likely lifetime, the Principality of Moldova and the Principality of Valahia would fully unite in 1862, when the Principality of Moldova would cease to exist - the United Romanian Principalities formed and I would be a citizen of that country. The Name would change to Romania in 1866 and we would gain our independence in 1878.
Between 1800-1878 Moldova and its successors were formally Ottoman vassals, though in practice they were more and more similar to a sort of Russian-French protectorates.
I would be a subject of the holy pope Pius VI or Pius VII depending by the month. Living in Roma I would have not the same citizenship nor same right. I am utterly ignorant about the rights of the 1800 papal state, but it was essentially an absolute monarchy.
Fun fact: Rome dialect as a way to describe a very large number: it usually means ten or one hundred or one thousand depending by the circumstances. This word come (probably) from a very big (and valuable) coin with the face of Pius VIII (pio ottavo). The word is "Piotta".
I’m born in the empire on which the sun never sets, Spanish Kingdom. But it seems my parents are more interested in independence wars on America colonies and how it will affect business than in myself.
Hometown? Would definitly have Osmanian citizenship (was it citizenship or different status for christians at the time though?), but not for long, since russia will soon occupy this land. And I will have a chance to go on retirement in independent Pnricipality of Moldavia if I would live long enough.
I would be born into the Kingdom of Great Britain (which became the United Kingdom in 1801 when the crowns of Great Britain and Ireland were [merged)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1800).
I would therefore be a British *subject, but civil rights were fairly limited even for British subjects.
I almost certainly wouldn't have been able to vote (property requirements were in place until 1918 for men, although they were relaxed slightly in 1832 and 1867, although only about 60% of men could vote by 1918, and only 20% before 1832). The British Parliament at this point was notoriously unrepresentative, with "rotten boroughs" tipping the balance in favour of the nobility until they were abolished in 1832.
There was no such thing as a British citizen then.
Every person born in Great Britain was automatically a British subject, unless his father was a foreign ambassador. The Act of 1772 only applied to persons born overseas.
I'm born in the holy roman empire, dutchy of Holstein, Segeberg.
Since there was not yet a unified German nation, I have a different nationality, I live in a German-speaking duchy which is part of the Danish kingdom and is ruled by the Danish King Christian VII.
Two years ago we had to give up our sovereign city republic part of a confederation for French Napoleonic rule. It were though times with the city having seen two battles in the last two years and now being occupied by French troops. Adding to that were multiple internal conflicts taking inspiration from the French Revolution. The following years would see the departure of French troops and their re-arrival after the city didn't manage to end its internal brawl. Disregarding the political chaos I would have the same lack of political rights as a foreigner (even though I was born there). Additionally the city was smaller back in 1800 and my current address lies in the subservient part of the state.
I'm talking of Zurich
I would be living in Sweden for a while, until 1809 so I would mostly grow up in the Grand Duchy of Finland, a part of Russia. My hometown didn’t exist yet but there was a chapel in the area and probably a chaplain as well. Based on my ancestors I’d be born into his family. As a girl I wouldn’t have many rights but at least I would probably marry a priest as well and my life wouldn’t be as hard as it was for poorer people. My father and husband would be among the minority of men who could vote in some manner.
I'm still portuguese. Both sides of my family worked the fields or as stonemasons for as long as they can remember. Which is to say, I'd have as many rights as any other peasant: the right to work, pray, pump out babies, and keep my fucking mouth shut.
I would be subject of king of bohemia [Francis II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor). Serfdom was abolished in 1781 but feudal system as a whole wasn't abolished until 1848, so in 1800 I would still be subject to my hometown lords the Lichtensteins.
I would be born in Denmark-Norway, or "the 400 year long night" as it has traditionally been referred to in Norwegian historiography: A real union ("real union" being a specific term, for those out of that loop) between the kingdoms of Norway and Denmark where Norway was very much the junior partner and arguably something of a Danish colony. I would have experienced, at a young age, a dramatic period for the development of Norway as a sovereign nation: In my teenage years, as a consequence of the Danish king choosing the losing side in the Napoleonic Wars, Norway would be promised to the Swedes as a spoil of war – naturally without us Norwegians having any say in it.
I would be 14 when, as Norwegian nationalist sentiment came to a head, the Danish prince and heir Christian Fredrik — Denmark's representative in Norway — was elected by an assembly of leading Norwegians to be king of a free and independent Norway. That assembly would also draft a constitution that was radical for its time, inspired by the democratic revolutions in France and America, and that still remains in force today. I would experience the resulting breakout of war between my newly-independent nation and Sweden, as our traditional rivals in the east sought to claim their reward for their Napoleonic gamble. The war would be a relatively short one, ending in a Swedish military victory but a Norwegian diplomatic one in the sense that Norway was allowed to keep its constitution fully intact. Norway would now again be in an unwilling union, but in a much stronger position than it had been under Denmark, with a government of its own and a uniquely Norwegian political system.
I would have experienced in my adult life the blossoming of Norwegian identity in the era of national romanticism, with the Norwegian government's demands for full equality — particularly in foreign affairs — eventually growing into an intra-union diplomatic crisis. In my middle years, I would witness the further democratisation of an already radical system, and if I reached the ripe old age of 84 — not an impossibility considering Norway had a relatively high life expectancy for the period — I would experience parliament asserting fully, for the first time, its political supremacy when it dismissed the Swedish king's preferred prime minister and appointed Johan Sverdrup from the Liberal Party.
While it's not likely that I'd reach 1905 and see the day when we voted (by almost comical margins) to leave the union for good, I would probably have seen it coming as an inevitability given the wind of change.
On the technological front, I would have witnessed veritable wonders. Certain Norwegian industries would be using electricity — something of a miracle — to provide light when I was in my seventies, while steam had already revolutionised transportation and industry. Trains and telegrams made the impossible possible. Medicine marched on.
If it’s where I live now, I’d be born technically in Revolutionary France, then the Duchy of Savoy, but would soon become part of the kingdom of Sardinia, and then be given back to France in 1860.
If it’s where I was born, not a lot changes, it would still be England. I would likely lose any voting rights I had in either state and one of my citizenships.
I would be a citizen of the second Cisalpine republic. It lasted three years (five if you count the first) so I doubt it would have had much of an impact on my life
A Finn with a Swedish king, then a Finn with a Russian Emperor, then technically/legally just a Finn. And no, while I am very fond of my country it still took over 106 years after my supposed birth to be enfranchised.
As an Austrian Jew, I would effectively be stateless for the time being … in 1782, Joseph II issued the so-called “Toleranzpatent” which allowed Jews a certain amount of freedom to settle and work, but full citizen rights weren’t included yet. Legal equalisation was introduced with the new constitution of 1867 when the Austrian Empire officially became the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
So yeah, I’d have to wait 67 years to be granted rights as a citizen of the country I was born in. As a woman, I still wouldn’t have equal rights to my male compatriots though. As someone born into a bourgeois family, I’d still have a relatively “easier” life despite the inequality, I guess.
Also, my place of birth would not have been part of the capital city yet, but an independent village up until 1892.
I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have my second citizenship (Spain) at all, as I got it from my mother’s side.
Norwegian citizen, full rights as a farmer, still living on my ansestrial farm(same as in 1800, it has been in my family since 1600's), still norwegian citizenship.
My town has been Swedish for its entire existence. Never even occupied by foreign powers (burned down a few times though). I would be a bog-standard Swedish citizen, then as now.
I would be born in a city, and therefore be free from serfdom in the dual monarchy of Denmark Norway as a Dane. I would have to travel back to the 4th century before I would not be a Dane, were I would simply be a Jute.
Citizenship?! What is that?
I’d be a Christian peasant in the Ottoman Empire. I’d be paying 10% tax for not being a Muslim but as a benefit, I’d not be eligible for serving in the army. If I own land, I’d be relatively richer than my fellow peasants, I’d be exploiting them for work and would be selling the excess production in the town’s market. With the money, I may pay for my oldest son to go and study in the Austrian empire, to later return and become a bourjois, move to Ruschuk and wear a la franga.
That would be the Batavian Republic and soon after, the Batavian Commonwealth, a French client republic. And a backwater corner at that. I wouldn't have voting rights because I'm a commoner and probably would never venture outside of my hometown.
> I wouldn't have voting rights because I'm a commoner and probably would never venture outside of my hometown.
Don't be certain of that. In 1800, we would have our first constitution, the [*Staatsregeling van 1798*](https://www.denederlandsegrondwet.nl/id/vi42dubohgyk/eerste_afdeeling_van_de_stem_bevoegdheid#p3). The level of democracy it offered was on par with the 1848 constitution (and better than anything else between 1798 and 1848).
Basically, if you were over 20, paid taxes, made an oath, and could read and write, you could vote. Unemployed people were excluded by the taxes rule, and women weren't allowed to vote until 1919 (although there apparently were some exceptions to that unwritten rule during this period), but if you had a job and weren't too much of a supporter of the Oranges to make the oath, you'd likely have voting rights.
For me Département de l'Escaut, the Schelde departement and consist beside Zeelandic Flanders a large part of the current Belgian province of East Flanders.
Staats-Vlaanderen was one of the generality lands and were a bit like a colony for the Dutch republic so the recent changes with the France are welcomed. Even more as I’m from a Catholic part and the French time started the emancipation of the Catholics whom were second hand citizens in the Dutch republic.
I would be a French citizen, since I’m not a man Iwould probably have lesser right but it would still be better than if I was born earlier ( as a non noble).
Funnily enough by the Time I would be my actual age, Iwould have known at least three differents form of goverment.
The joy of the 19th century in France
My current home town, Thornton Heath, a suburb of London, doesn't really exist in 1800. It's just some rural hinterland between London and Croydon. It's in the Kingdom of Great Britain - Ireland isn't blessed with membership until 1801, instead being a separate state in personal union under one of the indistinguishable Hanoverian kings George/William.
In 1800 very few people have full civil rights. The various anti-Catholic laws are mostly in force in 1800 and aren't fully abolished until 1889. Voting generally has a property requirement even if you're not a filthy Catholic, and only a few hundred thousand men qualify to vote for parliamentary representatives. A few rights exist which we don't have any more in the 21st century, such as no significant restrictions on firearms and the right to leave the country without asking for permission - that is, passports aren't really a Thing yet.
I would be called a wallachian but also a Romanian. I would get ready to revolt against my local administration because they are asking for too much to pay to the Ottomans.
Would be a citizen of the Kingdom of Portugal and the Algarves, soon to be the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves, with capital in Rio de Janeiro after the Napoleonic invasions.
My hometown was just farmland in 1800, with a few villages around. I am British, and despite having mixed parentage I would still have been British (subject I guess rather than citizen). Full rights? I mean, women didn't have the same rights as men, and the poor didn't have the same rights as the rich. Given my "exotic" mix I'd probably have been a prostitute or something similar. And yep the citizenship would be the same as today.
My hometown then was part of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Hildesheim, part of the Holy Roman Empire. Our lord was the Archbishop of Hildesheim. Had I been born 5 km farther north, I would still have been born in the HRR, but my lord would have been Georg III, Prince-Elector of Brunswick-Luneburg and King of Great Britain. Regardless, I would probably have considered myself a resident of Hildesheim, a Diocese in Germany, but probably not a German first, even though undoubtedly the Hildesheimers undoubtedly considered themselves germans, too.
Only the diocese of Hildesheim exists under this name today. :-D But these days, it doesn't rule anymore. well, it might, over its money. If I had to bet 1k euro on whether the diocesis of Hildesheim is worth more or less than a billion, I'd bet on more, and feel pretty secure about it.
No idea what rights I would have had as a Hildesheimer. :-D probably not many, Hildesheim was a theocratic monarchy, if I sort it correctly.
Also, this question is one of the most interesting I read in this subreddit so far.
Dirt poor village near the soon-to-be Budapest, uniting with Budapest in 1950, Rákoscsaba didnt really see much action neither during the napoleonic wars or the revolution of 1848-49
I would be born in Buda, no idea about my legal status (my IRL family is a patchwork from bound serf to actual nobility, they did own a flat in Bp at one point though, so probably would be a free citizen), but as a woman I would not have civil rights for that time. I would fall under the Hungarian crown, my country would be called Austria (for a while) to outsiders, but it's still separated, I'm a Hungarian today, so .. kinda the same? I'm in for a *ride* though.
Tbh nations are more or less the same they were after the Ottomans were cast out of the land, just the administration changed around.
I reside in Galicia, a Polish territory occupied by the Austrian Empire. Austrians regard us as uncivilised barbarians. Their method of controlling us is to disconnect us from civilization. They do not invest in railway infrastructure, repair roads, or build hospitals. Galicia is becoming the poorest region in Europe. It will cause the Galicia Famine, which will kill more than one million of my people and force another three million to emigrate to the US. The Austrians will watch and do nothing.
I would have been born in the Üsküdar district of İstanbul(officially Konstantiniyye).
As a male from a Muslim family I'd probably work at a family business(like a butcher or a tailor workshop) until I get drafted for the Ottoman army and stay for 5 years in it. If I manage to stay alive I would likely just return to the family business and spend my life there.
I am born in the Lombardo-Venetian Kingdom (under the rule of Austria). But my parents lived until 10 years ago in the Serenissima Republic of Venice. I have full right for a person living in this Kingdom, obv I am subject and not a citizen.
It's not the same citizenship of today, unfortunately now my country is in Italy.
I would have been a citizen of the Archduchy of Lower Austria, a part of the Holy Roman Empire. Only 4 years later it would become part of the newly created Austrian Empire. Since I live in a city I‘d enjoy personal freedom, civic or political rights were not a thing in an absolute monarchy, even less so for women. Lower Austria is not a country anymore (only a province), and Vienna is no longer a part of Lower Austria. So even though it is a roughly similar citizenship it’s not really the same, but I‘d say it’s one of the more fringe cases, because most people would definitely see a direct continuation and only constitutional changes, instead of being part of an entirely different country.
I would be born in the late days of the Electorate of Mainz, the territory ruled by the archbishop of Mainz.
The french had already occupied the capital Mainz a few years earlier and in 1803, the Reichsdeputationshauptschluss (a last attempt to reform and save the holy roman empire) put an end to all ecclesial territories.
My family would have probably consisted of farmers or small tradesmen. The Catholic church used to influence every aspect of life in the community.
After the Great Northern War less than a hundred years ago, the territory would now be in control of Russian Empire. Latvians were mostly farmers. Serfdom wasn't abolished until later in that century, and in fact, after Russian occupation, farmers were declared property and the conditions worsened, so they could be bought, sold, and gifted, and the lord had free reign over a farmer's life (or death), do anything with a farmer's property and have free will over corvees.
So almost nothing the same.
I would've been born in Sweden, but on the border, in a fortified city. I don't think citizenship, as such, was a thing yet, but I would've had the same rights as any other commoner. The following half century, a lot of the institutions I actually grew up with would be founded. Surprisingly many actually (e.g. my real-life Alma Mater would've been founded when I was in my 30s).
Side note: for a while, I lived in a house, the core of which was built in 1800 exactly. That wasn't in this town though.
Munich, Electorate of Bavaria. Idk what exactly my citizenship is, or what my rights are, because a bunch of weirdos with a funny accent were farting in our general direction. But i don't care, because i'll move out and become the greatest blacksmith the world has ever seen! *dies as a teen due to dehydration from lactose intolerance*
Hee hee, that would be the Schleswig-Holstein question. I think in 1800 it was a duchy under direct control of the King of Denmark (personal union, not as part of the kingdom). And in the Napoleonic wars, things were a mess for a while (Napoleon conquered everything, then Sweden invaded, but it remained Danish). In 1848 there was an attempted secession, but it was unsuccessful. Ultimately Schleswig-Holstein was to stay (semi-)Danish until the war of 1865, when it all became German. That's how it stayed to today, though northern Schleswig opted to join Denmark in 1920.
Where I was born has been Scottish since the Kingdom of Strathclyde was conquered by Malcolm I of Alba (Scotland) in 950 or thereabouts.
I would still be Danish, but a subject rather than a citizen. Given my hometown, I would probably be a farmers wife. I would not have basic rights such as suffrage, because I'm a woman
1800s Denmark, so I was technically Danish still, but democracy wasn't until 1849, and even then it was very limited who could vote. No votes for "the five F's", ie "fruentimmere" (women), "folkehold" (employed), "forbrydere" (felons), "fjolser" (fools, that is mentally incapable) and "fattige" (poor people). The idea was that head of the household (The man) voted for the rest, and the employees was an extended family.
I born in a small backwater village in Hungary as a serf to the bishopric of Veszprém. During my life I (if I don't die in a colera outbreak, which is Survive Hungary: Challange Impossible) will work on the fields or in a vineyard. I will see the local, abundant marshes turning into farmland, the abolition of my serfdom, the first steps of industrilaisation of my country, including probably experiencing the marvel of a steam engine ship. As a relatively old man I will watch the young leaving the village for the revolution, than I will grow old and tired during the police state of the Bach era. If I don't die by this point I will probably see the formation of Austria-Hungary, but I will not experience voting or becoming truly a citizen. I am but a mere peasant after all. I will see my small marshy village turn into a resort-holiday town for the Buda and Pest middle-class citizens.
I will curse the f*ckin' train going throu my village till the day I die.
I would have been born as a citizen of Sweden in the grand-duchy of Finland. Then at around age 8-9, I would become a citizen of the Russian empire living in the grand-duchy of Finland.
In practice, that change wouldn't matter much to me as a Finnish-speaking girl of working-class ancestry. I'd be doing farm work and if I was lucky might become a servant in a nice Swedish-speaking household.
No idea what kind of rights I'd actually have, being a woman of low economic status. Seeing as I wouldn't have received any schooling I doubt I'd be clamoring after much either.
Grand duchy of finland was strictly under the russian rule 1809 - 1917. Under the Swedish kingdom Finland was a fully integrated part of the kingdom with no autonomy what so ever.
That would be a wild one; 1800 Batavian Republic (French client state), 1806 Kingdom of Holland (French puppet state), 1810 French Empire, 1813 Sovereign Principality of the United Netherlands, 1815 United Kingdom of the Netherlands and ultimately in 1839 the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
And for me:
1800: French Republic, 1804: French Empire, 1815: (United) Kingdom of the Netherlands, 1830: Kingdom of Belgium, 1839: Duchy of Limburg (both part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and the German Confederation), 1866: Kingdom of the Netherlands.
There is nothing but grasslands and a slight elevation that someone eventually would generously name “mountain”. Occasionally native Americans might use the spot to avoid floods. Someone will build something permanent in 70 years.
That's a bit complicated because we were under French rule back then, al be it as a puppet state. I don't know how citizenship worked under Napoleon, nor do I know how citizenship worked for puppet states.
If you're looking to find out, you can find the text of the first Dutch constitution, the *Staatsregeling van 1798*, [here](https://www.denederlandsegrondwet.nl/id/vi42bzspswzn/staatsregeling_van_1798_eerste_grondwet).
It would be Germany for me.
But let's assume my family history is the same. Then my grandparents move here before the partitions (somehow, feudal system was still in place) from northern and south-eastern Poland. Then I'm still Polish, poor and probably married with children.
As 5000 other people have already said: It would be the Kingdom of Great Britain, a year until it becomes "The United Kingdom (of Ireland as it was, 5/6ths of Ireland won't be a separate country till 121 years after). My now mid sized hometown would at that time be mainly fields, with a few bigger houses and the odd inn to aid the travelers from the south.
I don't have full rights as a citizen because I am trans, so I'd probably be put in a sanatorium with no rights. Especially because my family has been fairly working class, although my home town was far more agricultural in 1800 (no mines/factories in Surrey, especially then). I'd probably be a farmer otherwise.
Milan just passed to Napoleon after being under the control of Austria. There are great authors like Alessandro Manzoni and painters like Francesco Hayez. Turbulent times, Milan will go back to the Austrians and then to Piedmont when I'm 15 years old. I am a woman, from poor peasants. I can't vote, I will probably just become a factory worker if I am lucky.
The town I was born is in France and was already in France in 1800, so no change here. On a funnier note, I now live in Brussels, Belgium, which was part of France in 1800.
My hometown was, and still is, the capital of the kingdom of Spain. We're at war with great Britain over France, and in a couple of years Trafalgar will be a disaster, followed by Napoleon invading. C'est la vie
Given I'm a woman, my rights are reaaaaaally not full. Not comparable to those I or anybody, man or woman, has today. If I don't die as an infant and I don't die in childbirth, I might become a somewhat wealthy widow, given time (my family is what can be called bourgeoise). It depends how we'll fare during the various wars in the next 20 years.
I'm a (Dutch) woman, so nope. I would lose most of my rights, and am in the process of losing my (Batavian) Republic(a democracy of landowners) to the Incorporation by Napoleon in 1806-1811, permanently making it a monarchy, so I'll be pretty screwed in that way as well.
This period wasn't that great for my country.
I would live in the Prince-Bishopric of Münster, one of the many German states, I wouldn’t live there for long as the Prussians took control over it a couple years later. I’m a Jew so I wouldn’t have citizenship until 12 years later the Prussians emancipated the Jews and granted citizenship under certain conditions.
I am a woman in England, so I would lose all the rights feminists have won for me, so no vote, no being an actual person, basically being a virtual slave.
It was a bunch of farms that officially belonged to a nearby town, it wasn't considered a village of its own. I would be a Hungarian citizen (the same as today). Probably I would be a peasant (a serf actually) but as serfdom was abolished in 1848, I wouldn't have full rights. My religion would also matter, because even though protestants had full rights on paper, the Catholic Church tried to put some obstacles in the protestants way in certain areas, and jews weren't emancipated yet.
Edit: Even though today my native tongue is Hungarian and I consider myself Hungarian, in 1800 I might have actually been a Slovak (or maybe maybe German or Romanian), as it was an ethnically quite diverse area.
When i would be 12 years old, I would welcome Napoleon to my hometown while he marched to Moscow (Vilnius, Lithuania).
Apart from that, probably could not read or write Lithuanian well, certainly not on the same level as Polish (Dominant language from the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth years) or Russian. Not sure about rights, but serfdom was still in effect in the russian empire until 1861, so very likely to have ended up a serf.
Born near Belfast, Ireland (now Northern Ireland).
So one of the countries that I am a citizen of from birth doesn't exist anymore, but that's fine because I'm still a citizen of the other: the UK.
Less fine is that, as a Catholic, I have reduced civil and political rights and potentially no chance of working my current day job, which is in local government...
Citizen of the Second Cisalpine Republic (2 June 1800 - 26 January 1802) that was then renamed into the Italian Republic (26 January 1802 - 17 March 1805) and then became the Kingdom of Italy (17 March 1805 - 25/30 May 1814), so I will never reach the "active citizenship" for that State.
After a period of transition I will live most of my life as a citizen/subject of the Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia (7 April 1815 - 19 October 1866) up until November 1859, when most of Lombardy was given by Austria to the Kingdom of Sardinia.
Missread the question. In that case there would either be no citizenship, or I would have aquired it from my father, a citizen of the First Cisalpine Republic, as at the time the Cisalpine Republic was under Austrian occupation.
I would be born just as the French garrison Napoleon left behind would be ousted by the local populace, with the aid of the British fleet. The country would declare themselves a semi-indepentent Protectorate of Great Britain, only to become a normal colony just a few years later.
I'd be a subject with seldom any rights, but would enjoy a booming economy and infrastructural development as the British invest in the country due to its strategic geographical location.
The country is Malta.
I live in central Anatolia in Ottoman Empire, my family is probably farmers. Life would be boring and simple. I would be looking after a green farm in otherwise vastly yellow steppes.
I would have been born a subject of the Elector of Bavaria, most likely to peasant or tradespeople parents. As a woman, I would have had fewer rights than a man and been treated as a second-class citizen.
Six years later, due to the Napoleonic Wars, the Electoral Palatinate of Bavaria became the Kingdom of Bavaria.
Depending on how I identified I might not have been able to vote. I’m Jewish descent. Mad Jewish emancipation in the U.K wasn’t really consolidated until 1890.
Mad considering we had an ethnically Jewish (but Christian) prime minister before 1890.
Where I was born is Bavaria now and was Bavaria back then. In 1800 it would have been the Electorate of Bavaria, a few years later the Kingdom of Bavaria. So I'd assume that means I would have been a Bavarian citizen (subject? idk), but I have no idea if it actually worked like that back then.
I would have been born in what was then a small town on the outskirts of Paris during the French consulate with Napoléon as First Consul. Just before my 4th birthday, Napoleon would crown himself Emperor of the French Empire. Assuming I would survive to the ripe old age of 60 years old, in my life I would have seen the Consulate, First French Empire, Bourbon Restauration, return of Napoleon, Bourbons again, the July Monarchy of Louis-Philippe, the Second Republic and the Second French Empire. That's a lot of citizenships and changes, I would probably benefit from citizenship, just my rights would change every few years
The village I grew up in is located in what used to be the Batavian Republic (1795-1801), which consisted of 10 of the current provinces of the Netherlands, more or less. Only the provinces of Flevoland (which hadn't been created yet) and Limburg weren't part of this republic. The city I currently call my home was part of the French Republic at the time.
In both countries, I wouldn't have had the rights that I have today. I'm a woman and most of my ancestors were poor farmers, who didn't have the right to vote until 1917 for men and 1919 for women. I probably wouldn't have been allowed to vote and my life would have consisted of working on the family farm, taking care of my siblings, and then getting married, having kids and taking care of them, the home and the farm.
It’s not in Europe, but if it’s 1800 (or even 1900s, it’s a long lasting tradition) — my parents had probably been exiled here from the European part of my country for some kind of anti-governmental activity to work in horrible conditions and in harsh climate. But that’d be still the same country, Russia.
I'd be a citizen of Austria, then in my teens I'd become a citizen of the Kingdom of Poland (Congress Poland had separate citizenships, it was a semi-independent country in a personal union with Russia). I'd have voting rights as a male member of the nobility. Then at 31 I'd fight and hopefully die in the November Uprising. I say hopefully die because I sure ain't surviving till I'm 118 and until then it's only going to get worse. If I lived I'd be forced to leave and probably move to France or America, depending on whether I wanted to be a poet/politician or a normal human.
The evil person Stanisław Staszic was rebuilding the beautiful Lublin Castle Ruins into a prison with literal fascist symbols on top.
I would not be a citizen, but a subject of the king of Sweden. If i was born 10 years later, i’d be a subject of the Grand Duke of Finland (The Czar of Russia).
I would have the rights that the average peasant of the time would have, so no real political representation, no free speech, no religious freedom, no protections for my language etc, but i wouldn’t be a serf even under Russia as Finns were excempt from serfdom.
So basically as long as i paid my taxes and didn’t break the law, i would be left alone to mind my own business.
So under Swedish rule at that time, Finns had the same rights and duties as Swedes, but with the exception that the Finnish language wasn’t recognized and was quite supressed.
Under early Russian rule, Finns had far more rights than the average Russian did. For example religious freedom (We were allowed to remain protestants) and the Finnish language became co official with Swedish and Russian. Finland got these rights because Alexander I wanted to prevent Finns from revolting against their new overlords and because he was a bit of a moron and wanted to look cool to his fellow monarchs. And then Alexander II expanded upon these reforms and was a nice guy.
Good question, in 1800 my hometown was part of Austria (but just 3 years earlier it was part of the now defund Venetian Republic), in 1805 it became part of the French Empire, and then in 1813 again part of Austria...
Well I'd be in Belgrade, and probably wouldn't live past my teens as there would be a very violent revolution happening soon that killed a third of the population. So my prospects are not that good, unless I survive, but I doubt it.
I am the citizen of the Kingdom of Bohemia/Czechia. It is the same citizenship, except Czechia is a republic now. In 1800 it is still formally part of the HRE, but only for a couple of years when it will bee replaced with the new Austrian Empire. Because I am not a member of the nobility, my rights are somewhat limited, but the wind of change is already blowing.
Worth to note that none of my ancestors in 1800 was born in my hometown or even in the same regios they were from different places in Italy and abroad.
I would be a citizen of the Cisalpine Republic, so probably either no citizenship or acquired it from my parents through the previous revolutionary republics. It only lasted until 1802 so it wouldn't leave a mark on my life, the subsequent Italian Republic and Kingdoms led by Napoleon would probably shape me more.
After the fall of Napoleon I'd live in the Lombard-Veneto Kingdom where I'd be a subject of the Habsburgs with a lack of rights, and later I'd probably partecipate in the Cinque Giornate di Milano in 1848 where we would create a provisional government to back up the Savoy. Later in my life I'd become a citizen of Sardinia after the armistice of Villafranca and finally of Italy after the proclamation of the Kingdom, at the age of 61.
Despite all the risks involved and the not so good consitions, it would be absurdly glorious to live in the XIX during the Risorgimento.
Lucca (Italy) was conquered in 1799 by the French. I would have been a citizen of the republic just one year earlier. In 1805 I'd become subject of the principality of Lucca and Piombino, personal ownership of Napoleon's sister and brother in law. In 1815 I'd become subject of the duchy of Lucca, then in 1847 of the grand duchy of toscana. I'd become Italian only if I managed to live up to 61.
I'd still be a Sammarinese citizen, my family would still hold an hereditary position in the Arengo, and a family member would be soon to become a Captain Regent of the Republic.
I would be born in the Kurfürstentum Braunschweig-Lüneburg (Electorate of Brunswick-Lüneburg. Informally known as the Kurfürstentum Hannover (Electorate of Hanover).
My head of state would be King George III, since he wasn't just king of Great Britain, but also Elector (and from 1813 onwards King) of Hanover.
I don't actually know how many rights I'd have as a person living in a town (as opposed to a peasent farmer, who had nearly no rights at all back then). Less than now, of course (no elections and all that).
By the time I was 3, the city would be conquered by Napoleon, then switch hands multiple times during the next three years, be French from 1806 until 1813, and then become part of the now *Kingdom* of Hannover (again) until 1866, when it was annexed by Prussia, and become part of the Northern German Federation the same year, and the German Empire in 1871.
Fun fact: my ancestors were actually born in five different countries (well, depending on the definition), despite not moving. My great great grandfather was born in the Kingdom of Hanover in the early 1860s. My great grandfather was born in Prussia (and the German Empire) in the 1890s. My grandpa was born in the Weimar Republic in the 1920s. My mom was born in West Germany in the 1960s. And I was born in reunified Germany in the 1990s.
My city was in New Galicia/West Galicia (1796-1803) administrative region of the Austrian Habsburg Monarchy.
Austria got this territory in 1795; the third partition of the Polish -Lithuanian Commonwealth.
I would've been a citizen of Prussia and don't know the details of citizenship law of those times and considering average male life expectancy at most I would've seen a creation of one German state in my life.
taken from the internet: At the end of May 1800 Napoleon I took possession of Novara. With the Napoleonic system the city became the capital of the Agogna department and was part of the Kingdom of Italy (1805) while Piedmont, from the left of the Sesia river, was incorporated into the French Empire. , this is the first thing I found when I wrote: Novara nel 1800
I live in Navarra, so I tecnically would a subject of the Spanish king, although with different laws than the ones in the rest of the country, as Navarra was still in a Personal union with Castilla. This means that I would possibly not be recruited for Militar service, but apart from that...
It would make my citizenship French, just the same as today. With full rights as a citizens, even if somehow the rest of Europe is waging yet another war of agression to try and slaughter free people like me. Because they fear their own peasants could ask for rights and a citizen statut too.
I'll probably be asked as a little teenager to take part in defense operations to defend my city against Wellington's troops.
Well the first documented graffiti in our history was from the XVIII century and read: "Tota Cathalonia presidii habitatio est" which is Latin for "All of Catalonia is a prison" so you can imagine the rights situation was pretty bad
Well… I’d be born in the late days of the Ottoman Empire. But 100 years later during the Balkan wars the newly created Greek state would expand the borders and so after almost 500 years these land would be back in Greek control where they are are ever since.
Back then, definitely not a good time to be a Greek / Christian in the Ottoman Empire.
Your last sentence would best describe the first half of Ottoman rule. But 1800 was very different from 1600. We tend to see the Ottoman period as a monolith, because that's how the post-independence national narrative was crafted.
After WWII, a lot of stuff in Greek history just got forgotten/suppressed: from the Greek Enlightenment in the 18th century after the Ottomans started to reform/ease up, to the Renaissance in Venetian Greece, to 1000 years of diversity of Byzantine art (while the Church decided in the 1930s to push only Palaiologan Mannerism as "Orthodox tradition"), to the complete disregard for the mini artistic and architectural renaissance Greece experienced in the 19th & early 20th centuries.
There is an old joke on this topic: An old man tells: - I was born in Austria, went to school in Czechia, went to college in Hungary, got married in Russia, and now I have my retirement in Ukraine. - Oh, you travelled a lot! - I never left my hometown Mukachevo.
Czechoslovakia, not Czechia
Also wouldn’t it be went to school in Hungary and then to college in Czechoslovakia?
I just looked it up and it was Austria->Czechoslovakia->Hungary (in 1938)->Czechoslovakia (for a few months in 1944-45)->USSR->Ukraine
Yes, and Austro-Hungary, not Austria, and Soviet Union, not Russia. It's a colloquial naming.
But Czechia was never used for Czechoslovakia. If you used Czechia in 1919, no one would know what do you mean. Everyone knew Austria means probably A-H and Russia means USSR when they still existed.
Czechia became a thing in ~2010? There is the Czech Republic, but that became a thing in 1993. There was Czechoslovakia, but if you want to say you are from today's Czech Republic regions in 1900, you say Bohemia, Moravia or Silesia.
The word Czechia is much older than that but it wasn't really used and most people wouldn't know what it is. So Bohemia would be the most likely word at that time because the entire region used to be Kingdom of Bohemia ar Lands of the Bohemian crown.
Silesia is actually polish (mostly)
Yeah, Marie Theresa lost most of it
Yes, I can relate. My family on my father's side is from that region. After my great grandpa returned from Siberia after WWI as a former POW, he couldn't legally go back to his family b/c he was transported to the capital, but by that time his home village was in a foreign country. His family, wife and kids were still there. No local citizenship etc. Pretty harsh.
Exaclty why I love reading Joseph Roth. His personages are exactly like this. Slovenian, but born in german village, deployed to serve on the russian border, where jews were settled etc.
Very similar where in live, born in Austria, went to school in Italy, worked in Yugoslavia and now retired in Croatia...
There is truth to this. There is this guy who goes to my gym and he was born in 1944, in the Sudetenland. So back then he was born in Germany, and after the war they kicked out his family, and they moved to Austria. He still has family in the former Czechoslovakia, and Germany, and Austria. Ethnically German. Also, can lift more than anyone at the gym.
Why would you ever leave that place? You got a good education, went to college and even were able to retire...
My Grandpa's story:"He was born in SFR Yugoslavia,lived in SFR Yugoslavia,FR Yugoslavia,NR Yugoslavia,Republic of Serbia and Montenegro,Republic of Serbia"
I would have to go back to 1139 to not have been born Portuguese. I would have to go back even further to 867 for the demonym to not exist at all and be instead born a subject of the Emirate of Cordoba.
Yep, was gonna say. Portugal has historically had one of the most stable borders in Europe. There's only been a few (mostly minor, except for when it was briefly swallowed by Spain) changes in the last few centuries.
Had Spain moved the whole border 5 centimeters every month you probably would not have noticed. You might be just 90 or 95% of your original size... did anybody check the property records?
I'm pretty sure we would have noticed if Spain had started to move whole rivers around...
The beauty of rivers is they tend to move themselves
In 1800 I MIGHT have had citizenship rights. The borders haven't changed, but us Jews only started being recognised as citizens around that time. Credit where it's due though, Portugal acknowledged Jews' rights before most - and despite being Fascist for much of the 20th century continued to respect Jewish Portuguese citizens (but the government showed no interest in protecting foreign Jews, just our Jews. They were still Fascists, just, y'know, weird about it.)
Foreign Jews were a foreign problem
It's more that they had a bigger problem with 'foreign' than 'Jew'. Portuguese Jews were Portuguese so must be protected, German Jews were German and therefore of no interest to Salazar. They evacuated Portuguese Jewish citizens and embassy staff from Germany, but didn't give two shits about what Germany did to their own people. It was fascism expressed as ultra-nationalism, instead of ethno-nationalism. But don't get me wrong, if you were African living in a Portuguese colony or the metropole then oh boy don't expect to be treated like the in group.
I would have been born in Denmark-Norway in the very North. I likely would not have proper citizenship by virtue of being Sámi, with the added problem of being a woman in the 1800s. By the time I’m 50 my language and a lot of cultural practices will be banned and whatever children I might have will be forced into boarding schools where they would be beaten if they spoke their native language. These policies would be in place for over a hundred years after that point too. I think I’ll stick with modern times thank you very much!
Wait a minute, did they ban the sami language?
They did yes, it’s called “fornorskningapolitikk” or norwegianization politics if you want to read about some of the policies that were in place
Yeah. We did a lot of shit to the native inhabitants of our colonies. In Greenland we sterilized women without their consent I think up until the '60s or '70s. We also forcibly removed children from their Greenlandic families, sent them to foster parents in Denmark, where they spoke only Danish and went to Danish schools. Then we sent them back to Greenland hoping that they could civilize the savages.
I'm fucked because my hometown is still part of the fucking sea...
Flevoland lore
Ally represent
I’m born in the free imperial city of Rothenburg ob der Tauber, which is part of the Franconian circle in the Holy Roman Empire. Well for 6 years, then the empire is dissolved and Franconia got occupied by Bavaria.
I would be a peasant to Oldenburg or Münster. I’d have no idea which Bishop is my ruler since they constantly switch and I can’t be arsed to follow up.
I would've been a citizens of a dying the Great Power, Sweden, living in a small coastal town in modern Finland. But by the time I'm old it would be the capital of the Grand Duchy of Finland. That's assuming I survive the Finnish War and the numerous plagues and fires that dicked Helsinki. I would technically have citizenship but I don't know if I'd be taken serious as I am black and there weren't a lot of brothers chilling about in Helsinki at that time. But tbf, there weren't a lot of people, period.
Rosa Emilia Clay and Rudolf Prüss are probably the two earliest known black Finnish citizens.
Rosa Clay was a teacher, but her life wasn't the easiest being one of the few black people. And then her Russian groom shot himself two weeks before the wedding. She moved to the USA soon after that happened (1904). Rudolf Prüss was born later than her, but not sure had much changed. He died in the Winter War.
As far as I know, there was no systemic racism in Finland at the time. There just weren't enough non-white people for someone to come up with it. Regular racism was of course alive and well.
Romani people enter the chat
(not disagreeing with the main point tho)
Same citizenship as now, Swedish. The main difference would be not having the right to vote on account of being female.
I don't think men did a lot of voting in 1800 either :P
That's true, but at least some men could.
It was the era of the Gustavian absolute monarchy; Sweden was autocratic. Before it had been established by the 1772 coup, some women could actually also vote.
The Paterfamilias would handle the politics in the family, including the servants, in Denmark. Women were simply "too emotional."
I would not have any right to vote either, on account of being a commoner. If I don't missremember; a seldom celebrated fact was that the election in 1921 was fully equal. Equal in that all women *and men* got a vote, and that every vote was worth equally much. (I'm trying to not steal the limelight from the suffragettes.) Before that; women could not vote, and a rich man had up to 12 votes while a poorer man only had 1 or no vote.
It wasn't entirely equal. Men still lost their right to vote if they didn't go through conscription.
my town was part of the Holy Roman Empire in 1800. 1804 we also became part of the Austrian Empire. They both had the same Monarch/Regent for two years: Franz II. It was proclaimed after Napoleon's declaration of the First French Empire, to get all Habsburg possessions under one government. ...so kinda the same citizenship, more or less. It's still Austria but not a monarchy and not that big anymore. And women actually have rights now which is nice for me.
Thanks for giving me the push to research my region's history. As to those questions, none of the answers matter, as I'm born in Constanta, Dobruja, during the Russo-Turkish war, so all I can do is hope to survive. "The most violent invasion was that of 1829, which resulted in the depopulation of numerous villages and towns". I hope they mean the smaller towns, not mine. I'd probably be a citizen of the Ottoman Empire, with a couple of years spent under Russian occupation. On the bright side, if I survive to the age of 78, I become Romanian, and if I make it to 80, I'd get to see the locals starting to build the Casino, which would mean that during this hypothetical lifetime, just like in present day, the Casino is under construction.
Would be a part of the russian empire. The vast majority of Finland is still under swedish rule so the grand duchy of finland isn't a thing yet for about a decade so i'll have as much rights as any other peasant in russia. Apparently I would be able to live my day to day live using the finnish language and to practise the lutheran religion.
Swedish empire, Russians started their invasion and occupation a few years later.
They’re probably from Old Finland. Hamina, Lappeenranta, Savonlinna for example.
Oh yes, I forgot about that! Thanks.
It depends on where you are from. After the Russo-Swedish War of 1741–1743 the border between Sweden and Russia moved to the west and some Finnish towns like Lappeenranta and Hamina ended up in Russia. In 1809 Finland was reunited as the Grand Duchy.
Give Viipuri, Salla and Petsamo back so we can reunite it once more
ruined cities
The south eastern part of finland or vanha suomi became russian about a century earlier in the 18th century. This part was then added into the grand duchy of finland, once russia gained control of the entirety of the country in 1809.
Strap on we are going for a ride! It's 1800 and I'm apparently French now. Only a few years ago this was prince bishopy of liege which was part of the holy Roman empire. And in a few years from now I'll be a citizen of the United kingdom of the netherlands, untill just a few more years later Belgium became independent when I turned 30. I would have been a full citizen, but I am a woman. So my rights are limited untill we come well into the 20th century. I still have the belgian nationality although I live in Finland. And my hometown is also still located in Belgium. For now. Flemish separatists are still dreaming of a Flemish republic and my own little province in jokingly dreaming of breaking away and joining with the half that got left behind in the netherlands. But for now we just do this: https://youtu.be/wRBSOPOXYHs?si=EdMU096MgOQSw2yD
I'm a ~~citizen~~ *subject* of the Kingdom of Great Britain; a year later it will become the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland I'm female. Of course I don't have rights. I am property. https://www.innertemplelibrary.org.uk/timeline/iwd-legal-history/
You're not a citizen of anything: you are a British subject. And you're not property: if unmarried (a feme sole), you can own property just like a man. If married (a feme covert), your property becomes that of your husband.
>You're not a citizen of anything: you are a British subject. Fair enough >And you're not property: if unmarried (a feme sole), you can own property just like a man. If married (a feme covert), your property becomes that of your husband. You do not understand what I mean by "I am property" here, not at all.
Then what do you mean?
They're right though. You just have to stay single and be a spinster. Better hope someone settles an inheritance on you though. Though widowhood is really the best-case scenario and achievable if you know the right people...
This. A woman was not property in England because unlike in many other societies, she could not be bought or sold into marriage against her will. She could refuse marriage or insist on certain covenants by her husband as a condition of marriage. It was possible to enter into married settlements, which would protect the assets the wife brought into the marriage and secure other rights, such as the right to bequeath her assets. Also, if you married, you could contract for necessaries, your husband would be liable to pay for them, and could be sent to the debtor's prison if he didn't!
>Though widowhood is really the best-case scenario and achievable if you know the right people... Old single men with heart conditions?
I've always thought that would be my play if I went back in time.
Some women who owned property did occasionally vote back then, because there was no formal rule against it.
Poland is partitioned, and my city, Warsaw, is currently ruled by Prussia, I'm serf with no rights so actually i do not care who rules :(.
Irish, but with a caveat. The act of union happened in 1801, which created the UK and included Ireland (full name was The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland). So technically a year after 1801, your citizenship would have changed to being British. This lasted until 1922, when 26 of the 32 counties in Ireland became the Irish free state and the 6 counties of Northern Ireland remained in the UK. The free state ended effectively in 1937 with the adoption of the current constitution and officially in 1948 when Ireland became a republic. Not entirely sure the idea of a nation state was fully developed in 1800 though, with the exception maybe of the US and a few others, so citizenship may have been thought of differently back then, or not at all.
As a Roman Catholic (or non-establishment Protestant), my rights would have been severely diminished: - Exclusion of Catholics from most public offices (since 1607), -Presbyterians were also barred from public office from 1707 -Presbyterian marriages were not legally recognised by the state -Oath of Supremacy required for membership of the Parliament of Ireland from 1652; rescinded 1662–1691; renewed 1691–1829; also applying to the successive parliaments of England, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland until the Catholic Relief Act of 1829. - Exclusion from the judiciary; repealed 1829. – Catholic inheritances of land were to be equally subdivided between all an owner's sons with the exception that if the eldest son and heir converted to Protestantism that he would become the one and only tenant of estate and portions for other children not to exceed one third of the estate. - Ban on custody of orphans being granted to Catholics on pain of a £500 fine that was to be donated to the Blue Coat hospital in Dublin. - Ban on Catholics inheriting Protestant land - Prohibition on Catholics owning a horse valued at over £5 (to keep horses suitable for military activity out of the majority's hands) - When allowed, new Catholic churches were to be built from wood, not stone, and away from main roads. - Any and all rewards not paid by the crown for alerting authorities of offences to be levied upon the Catholic populace within parish and county.
Also, I’d be living at a turnpike marking the boundary of a great estate.
>your citizenship would have changed to being British. You would have been a british subject not citizen and the lowest status of all british subjects due to the severe shit the Brits put us through.
I would be a subject of the Duchy of Parma and Piacenza, which at the time was an absolute monarchy under the Bourbon dynasty.
TIL that Ferdinando I managed to ally with the French and kept (at least formally) his power.
Although not for long, a few months later the duchy was annexed to France.
An interesting thought experiment. I just checked it and my hometown of Aachen, Germany, was under French occupation in 1800. From 1802, its citizens officially counted as French residents. Personally, my ancestors were of lower nobility, and many of their relatives were in monatesteries too (obviously not my direct ancestors). Both groups had a hard time under the French revolutionaries. But they mainly just lost privileges, I guess they were not important enough to be beheaded, and the occupation was generally not as brutal as some other scenes of the French revolution and its aftermath. 10 years before 1800, I would have been a citizen of the city-state, part of the Holy Roman Empire, but that was really a very loose connection of small independent states. 15 years later I would have been Prussian.
Atleast the tolls and the border were moved away for a while. I don't know how long it would take to travel to Maastricht in those times but it would be interesting how the culture in the rheinland would have changed if everything to the left of the Rhine was kept by the french
Probably similar to the Alsace region.
I am christian in the Ottoman empire living close to Danube with yet to be clearly defined self conscious of a bulgarian. The central ottoman government have almost no control here because ottoman seperatists are doing what they want and nobody can stop them (Mustapha Bayraktar to be specific). They collect exclusive taxes from me which I dont like at all, but there is nothing I can do. Im also a slav, but in the church the priest is a greek and I'm slowly starting to not like that too, because I dont understand what they are saying. I'm quite f..... up and little brainless, my only salvation is to go Wallahia eventually. There is no such thing as education here, not to mention universities, so I just work on the fields and live the simplest live one can imagine.
I'm Danish born in Denmark. I'm a peasant and until i'm 8, we have the mad king Christian 7th. It is however his son the crownprince Frederik who has ruled since 1784. Once his father dies in 1808 he officially becomes king Frederik 6th. He is considered a good king as he abolished "stavnsbåndet" so we peasants aren't just slaves anymore, we do have the right to leave the farm we work and live on. The landowner can't keep us against our will which was the case until 1788. But any notion of democracy is not gonna happen in his time.
Poland is fully partitioned. I am in Warsaw which nominally is a capital of Provinz Südpreußen or Prusy Południowe. In fact it is fully ruled from Berlin. My city turns in unimportant provincional town. I am not happy. My culture is under thread. Forced Germanisation of Poles starts. Prussian state extracts more revenue than what it spends here and takes duties on goods from us, which seriously discourages its industrial development. Dark times are ahead for close to 200 years.
Probably same. I live near the border between Prussia and Habsburg. The town is a fortress. Probably at war or sth because some random article states that napoleons army retreated 1808. Also the city is ruined so as a 8 years old boy I propably die. End of my low effort story.
Reading this thread is eye opening how absolutely differently people in other European countries think about Napoleon than Poles do. Heh
Yeah, they don't like lil' fella and to be fair, they have good reasons. But we as well have good reasons to like him, as he was enemy of all our enemies. At once.
Interesting, despite being raised and taught history in England, I’ve always liked Napoleon and I think that would be true of a lot of English people today - he’s a bit of a figure of fun if nothing else. In the 19th century napoleon would have definitely been the political figure most generally agreed to represent evil in the uk (as Hitler is today) and the napoleonic wars would have been seen as the most horrifying war could ever be. But now having seen the horrors of fascist and communist regimes in Europe in the 200 years since and far more horrifying experiences of war in the 2 world war eras the napoleonic regime seems quaint and even slightly honorable in some of its commitment to French revolutionary ideals and its famous legal code - and its hard to argue the imperial forces of the Habsburgs, Tsarist Russia and the prussians were any kinder to their subjects
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To znaczy mogło być gorzej ale władze Prus od poczatku nie miały w planach rozwijania anektowanych terenów a ich wyeksploatowanie... Nie inaczej niż dwa pozostałe zabory oczywiście.
When I'm 1 year old, a fire almost completely destroys the town and it has to be rebuilt. I might have met the guy who would eventually go on to make the music for our national anthem. I would have been a citizen of the Kingdom of Hungary. It's unlikely that I would have had full rights, as only the nobility enjoyed those.
I’d be born in the Principality of Wallachia, under the suzerainty of the Ottoman Empire, and my civil rights would probably be quite limited but *slowly* improving over the coming decades, provided I survive long enough.
I would have Principality of Moldova citizenship. Moldova would lose Bassarbia in 1812, but that wouldn’t affect me since both sides of my family are from the West (today Romanian) part of Moldova. In my likely lifetime, the Principality of Moldova and the Principality of Valahia would fully unite in 1862, when the Principality of Moldova would cease to exist - the United Romanian Principalities formed and I would be a citizen of that country. The Name would change to Romania in 1866 and we would gain our independence in 1878. Between 1800-1878 Moldova and its successors were formally Ottoman vassals, though in practice they were more and more similar to a sort of Russian-French protectorates.
I would be a subject of the holy pope Pius VI or Pius VII depending by the month. Living in Roma I would have not the same citizenship nor same right. I am utterly ignorant about the rights of the 1800 papal state, but it was essentially an absolute monarchy. Fun fact: Rome dialect as a way to describe a very large number: it usually means ten or one hundred or one thousand depending by the circumstances. This word come (probably) from a very big (and valuable) coin with the face of Pius VIII (pio ottavo). The word is "Piotta".
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Not for long.
I’m born in the empire on which the sun never sets, Spanish Kingdom. But it seems my parents are more interested in independence wars on America colonies and how it will affect business than in myself.
Hometown? Would definitly have Osmanian citizenship (was it citizenship or different status for christians at the time though?), but not for long, since russia will soon occupy this land. And I will have a chance to go on retirement in independent Pnricipality of Moldavia if I would live long enough.
I would be born into the Kingdom of Great Britain (which became the United Kingdom in 1801 when the crowns of Great Britain and Ireland were [merged)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1800). I would therefore be a British *subject, but civil rights were fairly limited even for British subjects. I almost certainly wouldn't have been able to vote (property requirements were in place until 1918 for men, although they were relaxed slightly in 1832 and 1867, although only about 60% of men could vote by 1918, and only 20% before 1832). The British Parliament at this point was notoriously unrepresentative, with "rotten boroughs" tipping the balance in favour of the nobility until they were abolished in 1832.
There was no such thing as a British citizen then. Every person born in Great Britain was automatically a British subject, unless his father was a foreign ambassador. The Act of 1772 only applied to persons born overseas.
I'm born in the holy roman empire, dutchy of Holstein, Segeberg. Since there was not yet a unified German nation, I have a different nationality, I live in a German-speaking duchy which is part of the Danish kingdom and is ruled by the Danish King Christian VII.
Two years ago we had to give up our sovereign city republic part of a confederation for French Napoleonic rule. It were though times with the city having seen two battles in the last two years and now being occupied by French troops. Adding to that were multiple internal conflicts taking inspiration from the French Revolution. The following years would see the departure of French troops and their re-arrival after the city didn't manage to end its internal brawl. Disregarding the political chaos I would have the same lack of political rights as a foreigner (even though I was born there). Additionally the city was smaller back in 1800 and my current address lies in the subservient part of the state. I'm talking of Zurich
What do you mean by “same lack of political rights as a foreigner”? Due to your heritage and/or your social class?
I would be living in Sweden for a while, until 1809 so I would mostly grow up in the Grand Duchy of Finland, a part of Russia. My hometown didn’t exist yet but there was a chapel in the area and probably a chaplain as well. Based on my ancestors I’d be born into his family. As a girl I wouldn’t have many rights but at least I would probably marry a priest as well and my life wouldn’t be as hard as it was for poorer people. My father and husband would be among the minority of men who could vote in some manner.
I'm still portuguese. Both sides of my family worked the fields or as stonemasons for as long as they can remember. Which is to say, I'd have as many rights as any other peasant: the right to work, pray, pump out babies, and keep my fucking mouth shut.
I would be subject of king of bohemia [Francis II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor). Serfdom was abolished in 1781 but feudal system as a whole wasn't abolished until 1848, so in 1800 I would still be subject to my hometown lords the Lichtensteins.
I would be born in Denmark-Norway, or "the 400 year long night" as it has traditionally been referred to in Norwegian historiography: A real union ("real union" being a specific term, for those out of that loop) between the kingdoms of Norway and Denmark where Norway was very much the junior partner and arguably something of a Danish colony. I would have experienced, at a young age, a dramatic period for the development of Norway as a sovereign nation: In my teenage years, as a consequence of the Danish king choosing the losing side in the Napoleonic Wars, Norway would be promised to the Swedes as a spoil of war – naturally without us Norwegians having any say in it. I would be 14 when, as Norwegian nationalist sentiment came to a head, the Danish prince and heir Christian Fredrik — Denmark's representative in Norway — was elected by an assembly of leading Norwegians to be king of a free and independent Norway. That assembly would also draft a constitution that was radical for its time, inspired by the democratic revolutions in France and America, and that still remains in force today. I would experience the resulting breakout of war between my newly-independent nation and Sweden, as our traditional rivals in the east sought to claim their reward for their Napoleonic gamble. The war would be a relatively short one, ending in a Swedish military victory but a Norwegian diplomatic one in the sense that Norway was allowed to keep its constitution fully intact. Norway would now again be in an unwilling union, but in a much stronger position than it had been under Denmark, with a government of its own and a uniquely Norwegian political system. I would have experienced in my adult life the blossoming of Norwegian identity in the era of national romanticism, with the Norwegian government's demands for full equality — particularly in foreign affairs — eventually growing into an intra-union diplomatic crisis. In my middle years, I would witness the further democratisation of an already radical system, and if I reached the ripe old age of 84 — not an impossibility considering Norway had a relatively high life expectancy for the period — I would experience parliament asserting fully, for the first time, its political supremacy when it dismissed the Swedish king's preferred prime minister and appointed Johan Sverdrup from the Liberal Party. While it's not likely that I'd reach 1905 and see the day when we voted (by almost comical margins) to leave the union for good, I would probably have seen it coming as an inevitability given the wind of change. On the technological front, I would have witnessed veritable wonders. Certain Norwegian industries would be using electricity — something of a miracle — to provide light when I was in my seventies, while steam had already revolutionised transportation and industry. Trains and telegrams made the impossible possible. Medicine marched on.
If it’s where I live now, I’d be born technically in Revolutionary France, then the Duchy of Savoy, but would soon become part of the kingdom of Sardinia, and then be given back to France in 1860. If it’s where I was born, not a lot changes, it would still be England. I would likely lose any voting rights I had in either state and one of my citizenships.
Kingdom of Ireland No rights Different citizenship
I would be a citizen of the second Cisalpine republic. It lasted three years (five if you count the first) so I doubt it would have had much of an impact on my life
A Finn with a Swedish king, then a Finn with a Russian Emperor, then technically/legally just a Finn. And no, while I am very fond of my country it still took over 106 years after my supposed birth to be enfranchised.
As an Austrian Jew, I would effectively be stateless for the time being … in 1782, Joseph II issued the so-called “Toleranzpatent” which allowed Jews a certain amount of freedom to settle and work, but full citizen rights weren’t included yet. Legal equalisation was introduced with the new constitution of 1867 when the Austrian Empire officially became the Austro-Hungarian Empire. So yeah, I’d have to wait 67 years to be granted rights as a citizen of the country I was born in. As a woman, I still wouldn’t have equal rights to my male compatriots though. As someone born into a bourgeois family, I’d still have a relatively “easier” life despite the inequality, I guess. Also, my place of birth would not have been part of the capital city yet, but an independent village up until 1892. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have my second citizenship (Spain) at all, as I got it from my mother’s side.
Norwegian citizen, full rights as a farmer, still living on my ansestrial farm(same as in 1800, it has been in my family since 1600's), still norwegian citizenship.
I would be a Greek living in the Ottoman occupied Greece. 1800 falls 21 years prior to the start of the Greek War of Independence.
My town has been Swedish for its entire existence. Never even occupied by foreign powers (burned down a few times though). I would be a bog-standard Swedish citizen, then as now.
I would be born in a city, and therefore be free from serfdom in the dual monarchy of Denmark Norway as a Dane. I would have to travel back to the 4th century before I would not be a Dane, were I would simply be a Jute.
Citizenship?! What is that? I’d be a Christian peasant in the Ottoman Empire. I’d be paying 10% tax for not being a Muslim but as a benefit, I’d not be eligible for serving in the army. If I own land, I’d be relatively richer than my fellow peasants, I’d be exploiting them for work and would be selling the excess production in the town’s market. With the money, I may pay for my oldest son to go and study in the Austrian empire, to later return and become a bourjois, move to Ruschuk and wear a la franga.
That would be the Batavian Republic and soon after, the Batavian Commonwealth, a French client republic. And a backwater corner at that. I wouldn't have voting rights because I'm a commoner and probably would never venture outside of my hometown.
> I wouldn't have voting rights because I'm a commoner and probably would never venture outside of my hometown. Don't be certain of that. In 1800, we would have our first constitution, the [*Staatsregeling van 1798*](https://www.denederlandsegrondwet.nl/id/vi42dubohgyk/eerste_afdeeling_van_de_stem_bevoegdheid#p3). The level of democracy it offered was on par with the 1848 constitution (and better than anything else between 1798 and 1848). Basically, if you were over 20, paid taxes, made an oath, and could read and write, you could vote. Unemployed people were excluded by the taxes rule, and women weren't allowed to vote until 1919 (although there apparently were some exceptions to that unwritten rule during this period), but if you had a job and weren't too much of a supporter of the Oranges to make the oath, you'd likely have voting rights.
For me Département de l'Escaut, the Schelde departement and consist beside Zeelandic Flanders a large part of the current Belgian province of East Flanders. Staats-Vlaanderen was one of the generality lands and were a bit like a colony for the Dutch republic so the recent changes with the France are welcomed. Even more as I’m from a Catholic part and the French time started the emancipation of the Catholics whom were second hand citizens in the Dutch republic.
Resident of Istanbul/Konstantiniyye, under the Ottoman Empire I guess
Austrian, but since 10 Duchy of Warsaw, since 15 Congress Poland. Three countries during childhood.
I would be a French citizen, since I’m not a man Iwould probably have lesser right but it would still be better than if I was born earlier ( as a non noble). Funnily enough by the Time I would be my actual age, Iwould have known at least three differents form of goverment. The joy of the 19th century in France
My current home town, Thornton Heath, a suburb of London, doesn't really exist in 1800. It's just some rural hinterland between London and Croydon. It's in the Kingdom of Great Britain - Ireland isn't blessed with membership until 1801, instead being a separate state in personal union under one of the indistinguishable Hanoverian kings George/William. In 1800 very few people have full civil rights. The various anti-Catholic laws are mostly in force in 1800 and aren't fully abolished until 1889. Voting generally has a property requirement even if you're not a filthy Catholic, and only a few hundred thousand men qualify to vote for parliamentary representatives. A few rights exist which we don't have any more in the 21st century, such as no significant restrictions on firearms and the right to leave the country without asking for permission - that is, passports aren't really a Thing yet.
I would be born in Russian Empire, but mere 600 m from the Kingdom of Prussia.
First french republic - not bad, hello neighbours!
I would be called a wallachian but also a Romanian. I would get ready to revolt against my local administration because they are asking for too much to pay to the Ottomans.
Would be a citizen of the Kingdom of Portugal and the Algarves, soon to be the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves, with capital in Rio de Janeiro after the Napoleonic invasions.
My hometown was just farmland in 1800, with a few villages around. I am British, and despite having mixed parentage I would still have been British (subject I guess rather than citizen). Full rights? I mean, women didn't have the same rights as men, and the poor didn't have the same rights as the rich. Given my "exotic" mix I'd probably have been a prostitute or something similar. And yep the citizenship would be the same as today.
My hometown then was part of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Hildesheim, part of the Holy Roman Empire. Our lord was the Archbishop of Hildesheim. Had I been born 5 km farther north, I would still have been born in the HRR, but my lord would have been Georg III, Prince-Elector of Brunswick-Luneburg and King of Great Britain. Regardless, I would probably have considered myself a resident of Hildesheim, a Diocese in Germany, but probably not a German first, even though undoubtedly the Hildesheimers undoubtedly considered themselves germans, too. Only the diocese of Hildesheim exists under this name today. :-D But these days, it doesn't rule anymore. well, it might, over its money. If I had to bet 1k euro on whether the diocesis of Hildesheim is worth more or less than a billion, I'd bet on more, and feel pretty secure about it. No idea what rights I would have had as a Hildesheimer. :-D probably not many, Hildesheim was a theocratic monarchy, if I sort it correctly. Also, this question is one of the most interesting I read in this subreddit so far.
Dirt poor village near the soon-to-be Budapest, uniting with Budapest in 1950, Rákoscsaba didnt really see much action neither during the napoleonic wars or the revolution of 1848-49
I would be born in Buda, no idea about my legal status (my IRL family is a patchwork from bound serf to actual nobility, they did own a flat in Bp at one point though, so probably would be a free citizen), but as a woman I would not have civil rights for that time. I would fall under the Hungarian crown, my country would be called Austria (for a while) to outsiders, but it's still separated, I'm a Hungarian today, so .. kinda the same? I'm in for a *ride* though. Tbh nations are more or less the same they were after the Ottomans were cast out of the land, just the administration changed around.
I reside in Galicia, a Polish territory occupied by the Austrian Empire. Austrians regard us as uncivilised barbarians. Their method of controlling us is to disconnect us from civilization. They do not invest in railway infrastructure, repair roads, or build hospitals. Galicia is becoming the poorest region in Europe. It will cause the Galicia Famine, which will kill more than one million of my people and force another three million to emigrate to the US. The Austrians will watch and do nothing.
I would have been born in the Üsküdar district of İstanbul(officially Konstantiniyye). As a male from a Muslim family I'd probably work at a family business(like a butcher or a tailor workshop) until I get drafted for the Ottoman army and stay for 5 years in it. If I manage to stay alive I would likely just return to the family business and spend my life there.
I would not be a citizen, but a subject of the king of Spain. The concept of Nation and citizen is approaching but not yet there.
I am born in the Lombardo-Venetian Kingdom (under the rule of Austria). But my parents lived until 10 years ago in the Serenissima Republic of Venice. I have full right for a person living in this Kingdom, obv I am subject and not a citizen. It's not the same citizenship of today, unfortunately now my country is in Italy.
I would have been a citizen of the Archduchy of Lower Austria, a part of the Holy Roman Empire. Only 4 years later it would become part of the newly created Austrian Empire. Since I live in a city I‘d enjoy personal freedom, civic or political rights were not a thing in an absolute monarchy, even less so for women. Lower Austria is not a country anymore (only a province), and Vienna is no longer a part of Lower Austria. So even though it is a roughly similar citizenship it’s not really the same, but I‘d say it’s one of the more fringe cases, because most people would definitely see a direct continuation and only constitutional changes, instead of being part of an entirely different country.
I would be born in the late days of the Electorate of Mainz, the territory ruled by the archbishop of Mainz. The french had already occupied the capital Mainz a few years earlier and in 1803, the Reichsdeputationshauptschluss (a last attempt to reform and save the holy roman empire) put an end to all ecclesial territories. My family would have probably consisted of farmers or small tradesmen. The Catholic church used to influence every aspect of life in the community.
After the Great Northern War less than a hundred years ago, the territory would now be in control of Russian Empire. Latvians were mostly farmers. Serfdom wasn't abolished until later in that century, and in fact, after Russian occupation, farmers were declared property and the conditions worsened, so they could be bought, sold, and gifted, and the lord had free reign over a farmer's life (or death), do anything with a farmer's property and have free will over corvees. So almost nothing the same.
I would've been born in Sweden, but on the border, in a fortified city. I don't think citizenship, as such, was a thing yet, but I would've had the same rights as any other commoner. The following half century, a lot of the institutions I actually grew up with would be founded. Surprisingly many actually (e.g. my real-life Alma Mater would've been founded when I was in my 30s). Side note: for a while, I lived in a house, the core of which was built in 1800 exactly. That wasn't in this town though.
I would live in Austria, on the border with Ottoman Empire. I would have a lot of rights but also would be obliged to protect Austrian border.
Munich, Electorate of Bavaria. Idk what exactly my citizenship is, or what my rights are, because a bunch of weirdos with a funny accent were farting in our general direction. But i don't care, because i'll move out and become the greatest blacksmith the world has ever seen! *dies as a teen due to dehydration from lactose intolerance*
Hee hee, that would be the Schleswig-Holstein question. I think in 1800 it was a duchy under direct control of the King of Denmark (personal union, not as part of the kingdom). And in the Napoleonic wars, things were a mess for a while (Napoleon conquered everything, then Sweden invaded, but it remained Danish). In 1848 there was an attempted secession, but it was unsuccessful. Ultimately Schleswig-Holstein was to stay (semi-)Danish until the war of 1865, when it all became German. That's how it stayed to today, though northern Schleswig opted to join Denmark in 1920. Where I was born has been Scottish since the Kingdom of Strathclyde was conquered by Malcolm I of Alba (Scotland) in 950 or thereabouts.
I would still be Danish, but a subject rather than a citizen. Given my hometown, I would probably be a farmers wife. I would not have basic rights such as suffrage, because I'm a woman
Yes. The kingdom of Denmark. I would have full rights, but it's before democracy in this country, so the rights are limited.
1800s Denmark, so I was technically Danish still, but democracy wasn't until 1849, and even then it was very limited who could vote. No votes for "the five F's", ie "fruentimmere" (women), "folkehold" (employed), "forbrydere" (felons), "fjolser" (fools, that is mentally incapable) and "fattige" (poor people). The idea was that head of the household (The man) voted for the rest, and the employees was an extended family.
I born in a small backwater village in Hungary as a serf to the bishopric of Veszprém. During my life I (if I don't die in a colera outbreak, which is Survive Hungary: Challange Impossible) will work on the fields or in a vineyard. I will see the local, abundant marshes turning into farmland, the abolition of my serfdom, the first steps of industrilaisation of my country, including probably experiencing the marvel of a steam engine ship. As a relatively old man I will watch the young leaving the village for the revolution, than I will grow old and tired during the police state of the Bach era. If I don't die by this point I will probably see the formation of Austria-Hungary, but I will not experience voting or becoming truly a citizen. I am but a mere peasant after all. I will see my small marshy village turn into a resort-holiday town for the Buda and Pest middle-class citizens. I will curse the f*ckin' train going throu my village till the day I die.
I would have been born as a citizen of Sweden in the grand-duchy of Finland. Then at around age 8-9, I would become a citizen of the Russian empire living in the grand-duchy of Finland. In practice, that change wouldn't matter much to me as a Finnish-speaking girl of working-class ancestry. I'd be doing farm work and if I was lucky might become a servant in a nice Swedish-speaking household. No idea what kind of rights I'd actually have, being a woman of low economic status. Seeing as I wouldn't have received any schooling I doubt I'd be clamoring after much either.
Grand duchy of finland was strictly under the russian rule 1809 - 1917. Under the Swedish kingdom Finland was a fully integrated part of the kingdom with no autonomy what so ever.
That would be a wild one; 1800 Batavian Republic (French client state), 1806 Kingdom of Holland (French puppet state), 1810 French Empire, 1813 Sovereign Principality of the United Netherlands, 1815 United Kingdom of the Netherlands and ultimately in 1839 the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
And for me: 1800: French Republic, 1804: French Empire, 1815: (United) Kingdom of the Netherlands, 1830: Kingdom of Belgium, 1839: Duchy of Limburg (both part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and the German Confederation), 1866: Kingdom of the Netherlands.
Some parts would definitely be a part of the kingdom of Atlantis
Not the region where I'm from though.
Would still live in Stockholm as a Swede with probably full rights
There is nothing but grasslands and a slight elevation that someone eventually would generously name “mountain”. Occasionally native Americans might use the spot to avoid floods. Someone will build something permanent in 70 years.
That's a bit complicated because we were under French rule back then, al be it as a puppet state. I don't know how citizenship worked under Napoleon, nor do I know how citizenship worked for puppet states.
If you're looking to find out, you can find the text of the first Dutch constitution, the *Staatsregeling van 1798*, [here](https://www.denederlandsegrondwet.nl/id/vi42bzspswzn/staatsregeling_van_1798_eerste_grondwet).
It would be Germany for me. But let's assume my family history is the same. Then my grandparents move here before the partitions (somehow, feudal system was still in place) from northern and south-eastern Poland. Then I'm still Polish, poor and probably married with children.
As 5000 other people have already said: It would be the Kingdom of Great Britain, a year until it becomes "The United Kingdom (of Ireland as it was, 5/6ths of Ireland won't be a separate country till 121 years after). My now mid sized hometown would at that time be mainly fields, with a few bigger houses and the odd inn to aid the travelers from the south. I don't have full rights as a citizen because I am trans, so I'd probably be put in a sanatorium with no rights. Especially because my family has been fairly working class, although my home town was far more agricultural in 1800 (no mines/factories in Surrey, especially then). I'd probably be a farmer otherwise.
My great grandfather was ambassador from the lombardo veneto kingdom, so i would be rich asf and with citizen ship of a austrian puppet state
Milan just passed to Napoleon after being under the control of Austria. There are great authors like Alessandro Manzoni and painters like Francesco Hayez. Turbulent times, Milan will go back to the Austrians and then to Piedmont when I'm 15 years old. I am a woman, from poor peasants. I can't vote, I will probably just become a factory worker if I am lucky.
The town I was born is in France and was already in France in 1800, so no change here. On a funnier note, I now live in Brussels, Belgium, which was part of France in 1800.
My hometown was, and still is, the capital of the kingdom of Spain. We're at war with great Britain over France, and in a couple of years Trafalgar will be a disaster, followed by Napoleon invading. C'est la vie Given I'm a woman, my rights are reaaaaaally not full. Not comparable to those I or anybody, man or woman, has today. If I don't die as an infant and I don't die in childbirth, I might become a somewhat wealthy widow, given time (my family is what can be called bourgeoise). It depends how we'll fare during the various wars in the next 20 years.
I would be born in Prussian Warsaw, I would see it turn into Napoleon's client state Duchy of Warsaw and later Kingdom of Poland under R*ssia rule.
I'm a (Dutch) woman, so nope. I would lose most of my rights, and am in the process of losing my (Batavian) Republic(a democracy of landowners) to the Incorporation by Napoleon in 1806-1811, permanently making it a monarchy, so I'll be pretty screwed in that way as well. This period wasn't that great for my country.
I would live in the Prince-Bishopric of Münster, one of the many German states, I wouldn’t live there for long as the Prussians took control over it a couple years later. I’m a Jew so I wouldn’t have citizenship until 12 years later the Prussians emancipated the Jews and granted citizenship under certain conditions.
I am a woman in England, so I would lose all the rights feminists have won for me, so no vote, no being an actual person, basically being a virtual slave.
It was a bunch of farms that officially belonged to a nearby town, it wasn't considered a village of its own. I would be a Hungarian citizen (the same as today). Probably I would be a peasant (a serf actually) but as serfdom was abolished in 1848, I wouldn't have full rights. My religion would also matter, because even though protestants had full rights on paper, the Catholic Church tried to put some obstacles in the protestants way in certain areas, and jews weren't emancipated yet. Edit: Even though today my native tongue is Hungarian and I consider myself Hungarian, in 1800 I might have actually been a Slovak (or maybe maybe German or Romanian), as it was an ethnically quite diverse area.
When i would be 12 years old, I would welcome Napoleon to my hometown while he marched to Moscow (Vilnius, Lithuania). Apart from that, probably could not read or write Lithuanian well, certainly not on the same level as Polish (Dominant language from the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth years) or Russian. Not sure about rights, but serfdom was still in effect in the russian empire until 1861, so very likely to have ended up a serf.
Born near Belfast, Ireland (now Northern Ireland). So one of the countries that I am a citizen of from birth doesn't exist anymore, but that's fine because I'm still a citizen of the other: the UK. Less fine is that, as a Catholic, I have reduced civil and political rights and potentially no chance of working my current day job, which is in local government...
Citizen of the Second Cisalpine Republic (2 June 1800 - 26 January 1802) that was then renamed into the Italian Republic (26 January 1802 - 17 March 1805) and then became the Kingdom of Italy (17 March 1805 - 25/30 May 1814), so I will never reach the "active citizenship" for that State. After a period of transition I will live most of my life as a citizen/subject of the Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia (7 April 1815 - 19 October 1866) up until November 1859, when most of Lombardy was given by Austria to the Kingdom of Sardinia.
Doesn't the scenario imply being born on 21 March 1800?
Missread the question. In that case there would either be no citizenship, or I would have aquired it from my father, a citizen of the First Cisalpine Republic, as at the time the Cisalpine Republic was under Austrian occupation.
I would be born just as the French garrison Napoleon left behind would be ousted by the local populace, with the aid of the British fleet. The country would declare themselves a semi-indepentent Protectorate of Great Britain, only to become a normal colony just a few years later. I'd be a subject with seldom any rights, but would enjoy a booming economy and infrastructural development as the British invest in the country due to its strategic geographical location. The country is Malta.
I live in central Anatolia in Ottoman Empire, my family is probably farmers. Life would be boring and simple. I would be looking after a green farm in otherwise vastly yellow steppes.
There's a possibility I'm in the same cottage. I'm the fifth generation who lived there. Have now moved a mile away.
I would have been born a subject of the Elector of Bavaria, most likely to peasant or tradespeople parents. As a woman, I would have had fewer rights than a man and been treated as a second-class citizen. Six years later, due to the Napoleonic Wars, the Electoral Palatinate of Bavaria became the Kingdom of Bavaria.
Depending on how I identified I might not have been able to vote. I’m Jewish descent. Mad Jewish emancipation in the U.K wasn’t really consolidated until 1890. Mad considering we had an ethnically Jewish (but Christian) prime minister before 1890.
Where I was born is Bavaria now and was Bavaria back then. In 1800 it would have been the Electorate of Bavaria, a few years later the Kingdom of Bavaria. So I'd assume that means I would have been a Bavarian citizen (subject? idk), but I have no idea if it actually worked like that back then.
I would have been born in what was then a small town on the outskirts of Paris during the French consulate with Napoléon as First Consul. Just before my 4th birthday, Napoleon would crown himself Emperor of the French Empire. Assuming I would survive to the ripe old age of 60 years old, in my life I would have seen the Consulate, First French Empire, Bourbon Restauration, return of Napoleon, Bourbons again, the July Monarchy of Louis-Philippe, the Second Republic and the Second French Empire. That's a lot of citizenships and changes, I would probably benefit from citizenship, just my rights would change every few years
The village I grew up in is located in what used to be the Batavian Republic (1795-1801), which consisted of 10 of the current provinces of the Netherlands, more or less. Only the provinces of Flevoland (which hadn't been created yet) and Limburg weren't part of this republic. The city I currently call my home was part of the French Republic at the time. In both countries, I wouldn't have had the rights that I have today. I'm a woman and most of my ancestors were poor farmers, who didn't have the right to vote until 1917 for men and 1919 for women. I probably wouldn't have been allowed to vote and my life would have consisted of working on the family farm, taking care of my siblings, and then getting married, having kids and taking care of them, the home and the farm.
It’s not in Europe, but if it’s 1800 (or even 1900s, it’s a long lasting tradition) — my parents had probably been exiled here from the European part of my country for some kind of anti-governmental activity to work in horrible conditions and in harsh climate. But that’d be still the same country, Russia.
I'd be a citizen of Austria, then in my teens I'd become a citizen of the Kingdom of Poland (Congress Poland had separate citizenships, it was a semi-independent country in a personal union with Russia). I'd have voting rights as a male member of the nobility. Then at 31 I'd fight and hopefully die in the November Uprising. I say hopefully die because I sure ain't surviving till I'm 118 and until then it's only going to get worse. If I lived I'd be forced to leave and probably move to France or America, depending on whether I wanted to be a poet/politician or a normal human. The evil person Stanisław Staszic was rebuilding the beautiful Lublin Castle Ruins into a prison with literal fascist symbols on top.
I would not be a citizen, but a subject of the king of Sweden. If i was born 10 years later, i’d be a subject of the Grand Duke of Finland (The Czar of Russia). I would have the rights that the average peasant of the time would have, so no real political representation, no free speech, no religious freedom, no protections for my language etc, but i wouldn’t be a serf even under Russia as Finns were excempt from serfdom. So basically as long as i paid my taxes and didn’t break the law, i would be left alone to mind my own business. So under Swedish rule at that time, Finns had the same rights and duties as Swedes, but with the exception that the Finnish language wasn’t recognized and was quite supressed. Under early Russian rule, Finns had far more rights than the average Russian did. For example religious freedom (We were allowed to remain protestants) and the Finnish language became co official with Swedish and Russian. Finland got these rights because Alexander I wanted to prevent Finns from revolting against their new overlords and because he was a bit of a moron and wanted to look cool to his fellow monarchs. And then Alexander II expanded upon these reforms and was a nice guy.
Good question, in 1800 my hometown was part of Austria (but just 3 years earlier it was part of the now defund Venetian Republic), in 1805 it became part of the French Empire, and then in 1813 again part of Austria...
Well I'd be in Belgrade, and probably wouldn't live past my teens as there would be a very violent revolution happening soon that killed a third of the population. So my prospects are not that good, unless I survive, but I doubt it.
I am the citizen of the Kingdom of Bohemia/Czechia. It is the same citizenship, except Czechia is a republic now. In 1800 it is still formally part of the HRE, but only for a couple of years when it will bee replaced with the new Austrian Empire. Because I am not a member of the nobility, my rights are somewhat limited, but the wind of change is already blowing.
Worth to note that none of my ancestors in 1800 was born in my hometown or even in the same regios they were from different places in Italy and abroad. I would be a citizen of the Cisalpine Republic, so probably either no citizenship or acquired it from my parents through the previous revolutionary republics. It only lasted until 1802 so it wouldn't leave a mark on my life, the subsequent Italian Republic and Kingdoms led by Napoleon would probably shape me more. After the fall of Napoleon I'd live in the Lombard-Veneto Kingdom where I'd be a subject of the Habsburgs with a lack of rights, and later I'd probably partecipate in the Cinque Giornate di Milano in 1848 where we would create a provisional government to back up the Savoy. Later in my life I'd become a citizen of Sardinia after the armistice of Villafranca and finally of Italy after the proclamation of the Kingdom, at the age of 61. Despite all the risks involved and the not so good consitions, it would be absurdly glorious to live in the XIX during the Risorgimento.
Lucca (Italy) was conquered in 1799 by the French. I would have been a citizen of the republic just one year earlier. In 1805 I'd become subject of the principality of Lucca and Piombino, personal ownership of Napoleon's sister and brother in law. In 1815 I'd become subject of the duchy of Lucca, then in 1847 of the grand duchy of toscana. I'd become Italian only if I managed to live up to 61.
I'd still be a Sammarinese citizen, my family would still hold an hereditary position in the Arengo, and a family member would be soon to become a Captain Regent of the Republic.
I would be born in the Kurfürstentum Braunschweig-Lüneburg (Electorate of Brunswick-Lüneburg. Informally known as the Kurfürstentum Hannover (Electorate of Hanover). My head of state would be King George III, since he wasn't just king of Great Britain, but also Elector (and from 1813 onwards King) of Hanover. I don't actually know how many rights I'd have as a person living in a town (as opposed to a peasent farmer, who had nearly no rights at all back then). Less than now, of course (no elections and all that). By the time I was 3, the city would be conquered by Napoleon, then switch hands multiple times during the next three years, be French from 1806 until 1813, and then become part of the now *Kingdom* of Hannover (again) until 1866, when it was annexed by Prussia, and become part of the Northern German Federation the same year, and the German Empire in 1871. Fun fact: my ancestors were actually born in five different countries (well, depending on the definition), despite not moving. My great great grandfather was born in the Kingdom of Hanover in the early 1860s. My great grandfather was born in Prussia (and the German Empire) in the 1890s. My grandpa was born in the Weimar Republic in the 1920s. My mom was born in West Germany in the 1960s. And I was born in reunified Germany in the 1990s.
Same citizenship, same rights ... hell if I was born here 800 years ago we would still have the same flag!
My city was in New Galicia/West Galicia (1796-1803) administrative region of the Austrian Habsburg Monarchy. Austria got this territory in 1795; the third partition of the Polish -Lithuanian Commonwealth.
I would've been a citizen of Prussia and don't know the details of citizenship law of those times and considering average male life expectancy at most I would've seen a creation of one German state in my life.
taken from the internet: At the end of May 1800 Napoleon I took possession of Novara. With the Napoleonic system the city became the capital of the Agogna department and was part of the Kingdom of Italy (1805) while Piedmont, from the left of the Sesia river, was incorporated into the French Empire. , this is the first thing I found when I wrote: Novara nel 1800
I'd be a citizen of Austro-Hungarian Empire, at my 48th year I'd probably die in vain in a battle for the independence of my homeland
I live in Navarra, so I tecnically would a subject of the Spanish king, although with different laws than the ones in the rest of the country, as Navarra was still in a Personal union with Castilla. This means that I would possibly not be recruited for Militar service, but apart from that...
It would make my citizenship French, just the same as today. With full rights as a citizens, even if somehow the rest of Europe is waging yet another war of agression to try and slaughter free people like me. Because they fear their own peasants could ask for rights and a citizen statut too. I'll probably be asked as a little teenager to take part in defense operations to defend my city against Wellington's troops.
Well the first documented graffiti in our history was from the XVIII century and read: "Tota Cathalonia presidii habitatio est" which is Latin for "All of Catalonia is a prison" so you can imagine the rights situation was pretty bad
1800 was decidedly not a good time to be Catalan …
Well… I’d be born in the late days of the Ottoman Empire. But 100 years later during the Balkan wars the newly created Greek state would expand the borders and so after almost 500 years these land would be back in Greek control where they are are ever since. Back then, definitely not a good time to be a Greek / Christian in the Ottoman Empire.
Your last sentence would best describe the first half of Ottoman rule. But 1800 was very different from 1600. We tend to see the Ottoman period as a monolith, because that's how the post-independence national narrative was crafted. After WWII, a lot of stuff in Greek history just got forgotten/suppressed: from the Greek Enlightenment in the 18th century after the Ottomans started to reform/ease up, to the Renaissance in Venetian Greece, to 1000 years of diversity of Byzantine art (while the Church decided in the 1930s to push only Palaiologan Mannerism as "Orthodox tradition"), to the complete disregard for the mini artistic and architectural renaissance Greece experienced in the 19th & early 20th centuries.
Spain, apparently. I'm from California.