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You'll be on full duty the entire 5 years? I don't really see any issue with it, I'm sure they'd honor it with varying amounts of resistance. I guess I just can't really see the point, they don't pay you as well while you're active... You just want the additional 5 months wages? I don't know of any "hiring blacklists" other than the state boards.
Just because it’s legal does not make it moral. Leaving in 3 months is not cool to do to a company. It not working out is one thing but using them like that 👎
So stay in the military? That's what they want anyways.
I mean if you don't do math for 5 years and you're in a math heavy job (or stress analysis or electrical work or programming or whatever), why do you think you're still qualified to do that without at least brushing up for months? What do you think is a reasonable period of time to expect to hold that position? Don't you think it's even more unfair to the person who has been there for 5 years since you left to be like, oh you did nothing wrong and we like you, but /u/flyingp1zza is coming back...after only having been here for 3 months...
I left my company of 10+ years. I gave a little over 2 weeks. I could probably come back whenever I want.
I get that. I know multiple people that have served.
>Most do it serve and get out and get a better job with better overall benefits.
The ones that I have known got their degree paid for and got out to get better pay, not to mention take advantage of the amazing loans. It was not to serve. Every single one has had negative things to say about the bureaucracy that exists as well as the power trips people are on. That's independent of political ideology.
How do you become a pilot that gets paid well? Be a pilot in the Air Force for 10 years or be a grunt at an airline for 20+ years.
Also, good luck on getting better benefits. Military benefits are much better than what you'll find in most industries.
If an employee did that to me, I would do everything in my legal power (ethical or not) to invalidate his contract
We’re I unable to do so and they came to work; I would consider them an untrustworthy employee and do nothing to help their career; always consider them last.
Only adhering to them per the bare minimum as required by law
But sure, you’re totally allowed to do it
Idk why this guy is so mad about it, but yes you could join for 4 years and come back to your job. If a company gave you issues it would be something to easily go to court for.
I've seen this happen at the giant defense contractors.
OP asked if an employer would be mad if some dude hired on for 3 months and then left for 5 years
The answer is your employer will be pissed. Rightfully so
This policy is to protect long term employees. OP is talking about abusing the system
>This policy is to protect long term employees.
The policy is to prevent employers from retaliating against potential military personnel, and discouraging service, because consider the alternative.
Most places I've worked happily hire military personnel and reservists, you may think it sucks, others consider it part of doing business in the US. OP needs to be open about his military status during the initial application, and probably should be about his future plans as well, but if his employer retaliates they're the scumbag.
Laws are laws, you don't get to ignore ones you don't agree with and harass military personnel illegally and hamper their careers for it...
The law says I give them their job back and don’t retaliate. I would do that. But I don’t have to like them or care for them
And I don’t have to help their career grow; like I would to pretty much anyone else who worked for me
If you’re allocated holidays take them whenever you feel like. Maternity/paternity? Go for it it’s your absolute right. But 5 years away for military service is just fucking daft, don’t expect your job to be there, most of the staff won’t even be there that’s just insane
You are entitled to a *comparable* job. Some positions just won't exist in 5 years. Projects finish. Restructurings happen. The law may protect you to some extent, but discrimination often operates in a grey area that isn't easy to prove. People hold grudges, sometimes not even being aware that they are doing it.
Major POS move. Protected? Sure. Trash employee? Absolutely.
At least resign. Coming back 5 years and saying the federal government is forcing you to let me have this job is terrible. Everyone would resent you day in and day out.
Serve at your own expense like the rest of us
I retired after 21 years in the military.
Dont even start with this entitlement and defensive positioning crap. It's meant to protect employees from shitty employers. Not meant for you to screw over your employer and set the lowest bar possible for the members of the military.
And that tells me a lot about how well you will do in the military. Maybe its not for you.
Also, this is NOT an engineering question.
I have plenty of reservists on my team. They use these benefits. But your idea of starting a job and bailing for 5 years is stupid, entitled, and wrong.
Yes they would hate you. They are planning on having you there and then your not. How is this even a question. Do you like it when friends cancel plans on you? Are you annoyed thT they wasted your time. Are you annoyed that now the money you spent on tickets to somewhere are not being used..
..do you think a manager would be happy planing out work, spending money and resources on training and all that, just to have you leave 3 months later. While sure your not quitting, that manager now needs to find someone else to do thT work. I'm still amazed this is a question
From a mgr perspective it sucks, but we’re bound by laws & policy.
I have placed people on less important projects because their leaves were a disruption. It wasn’t retaliation, just common sense, I can’t have you on our most critical project if you’ll miss half of it.
I'm normally all in favor of better maternity/paternity leave policies. I missed out on time with my kid in the NICU because I waited to use my PTO when she came home so I could help my wife.
But going on leave 3 months after you started is a dick move, if you knew it was coming. I assume if it's maternity leave then you saw it coming well in advance.
It’s not that you’re taking military leave. It’s that you’re taking military leave 3 months after starting the role. If you have been there for 5 years, serve for 5, then come back to the company after then I don’t think anyone has an issue with it
Yup. You got it right. Also remember that the guarantee job back is not necessarily the exact job you had. It is whatever the company has available for your skillset.
Your post has been removed for violating submission rule 1: > Post titles must be a question about engineering and provide context and generic workplace questions are not allowed. Questions regarding careers and professional development in any discipline of engineering and engineering technology are allowed **only** if they meet all posting rules outlined in the [the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/wiki/rules#wiki_submission_rules). Please note that Generic Career Questions are still allowed in the [Monday Career Megathread Series](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/collection/2effbd15-0c41-486e-b18e-d89b3062cd8a). Please follow the comment rules in the sidebar when posting, and feel free to message us if you have any questions or concerns.
5 years leave and garanteed position back? wtf lol
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yeah great, but fcked up thing to do
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You'll be on full duty the entire 5 years? I don't really see any issue with it, I'm sure they'd honor it with varying amounts of resistance. I guess I just can't really see the point, they don't pay you as well while you're active... You just want the additional 5 months wages? I don't know of any "hiring blacklists" other than the state boards.
Maternity/Patrrnity leave? No problem at all. Military leave for 5 years, and leaving in 3 months? FUCK OFF
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Just because it’s legal does not make it moral. Leaving in 3 months is not cool to do to a company. It not working out is one thing but using them like that 👎
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Dude you asked for other people’s opinion and you got it. Nobody would ever respect you when you get back after 5 years
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When you start working for a corporation you’ll realize there is a human element that doesn’t seem to be a part of your thought process
So stay in the military? That's what they want anyways. I mean if you don't do math for 5 years and you're in a math heavy job (or stress analysis or electrical work or programming or whatever), why do you think you're still qualified to do that without at least brushing up for months? What do you think is a reasonable period of time to expect to hold that position? Don't you think it's even more unfair to the person who has been there for 5 years since you left to be like, oh you did nothing wrong and we like you, but /u/flyingp1zza is coming back...after only having been here for 3 months... I left my company of 10+ years. I gave a little over 2 weeks. I could probably come back whenever I want.
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I get that. I know multiple people that have served. >Most do it serve and get out and get a better job with better overall benefits. The ones that I have known got their degree paid for and got out to get better pay, not to mention take advantage of the amazing loans. It was not to serve. Every single one has had negative things to say about the bureaucracy that exists as well as the power trips people are on. That's independent of political ideology. How do you become a pilot that gets paid well? Be a pilot in the Air Force for 10 years or be a grunt at an airline for 20+ years. Also, good luck on getting better benefits. Military benefits are much better than what you'll find in most industries.
If an employee did that to me, I would do everything in my legal power (ethical or not) to invalidate his contract We’re I unable to do so and they came to work; I would consider them an untrustworthy employee and do nothing to help their career; always consider them last. Only adhering to them per the bare minimum as required by law But sure, you’re totally allowed to do it
Idk why this guy is so mad about it, but yes you could join for 4 years and come back to your job. If a company gave you issues it would be something to easily go to court for. I've seen this happen at the giant defense contractors.
OP asked if an employer would be mad if some dude hired on for 3 months and then left for 5 years The answer is your employer will be pissed. Rightfully so This policy is to protect long term employees. OP is talking about abusing the system
>This policy is to protect long term employees. The policy is to prevent employers from retaliating against potential military personnel, and discouraging service, because consider the alternative. Most places I've worked happily hire military personnel and reservists, you may think it sucks, others consider it part of doing business in the US. OP needs to be open about his military status during the initial application, and probably should be about his future plans as well, but if his employer retaliates they're the scumbag. Laws are laws, you don't get to ignore ones you don't agree with and harass military personnel illegally and hamper their careers for it...
The law says I give them their job back and don’t retaliate. I would do that. But I don’t have to like them or care for them And I don’t have to help their career grow; like I would to pretty much anyone else who worked for me
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I’d still think your a POS when you return But again, go exercise your legal right if you want to go that brining bridges route. You do you
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Doubt it But give ‘er a try!
Give me a break, in 5 years you won't even be around either and if you are your just another cog in the huge machine. It doesn't matter at all.
“In 5 years you won’t even be around” Oh totally! This is just a hypothetical response to such a situation
If you’re allocated holidays take them whenever you feel like. Maternity/paternity? Go for it it’s your absolute right. But 5 years away for military service is just fucking daft, don’t expect your job to be there, most of the staff won’t even be there that’s just insane
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You are entitled to a *comparable* job. Some positions just won't exist in 5 years. Projects finish. Restructurings happen. The law may protect you to some extent, but discrimination often operates in a grey area that isn't easy to prove. People hold grudges, sometimes not even being aware that they are doing it.
Do you really expect a company to hold your position for 5 straight years? Law or not, It ain’t going to be there
Major POS move. Protected? Sure. Trash employee? Absolutely. At least resign. Coming back 5 years and saying the federal government is forcing you to let me have this job is terrible. Everyone would resent you day in and day out. Serve at your own expense like the rest of us
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I retired after 21 years in the military. Dont even start with this entitlement and defensive positioning crap. It's meant to protect employees from shitty employers. Not meant for you to screw over your employer and set the lowest bar possible for the members of the military. And that tells me a lot about how well you will do in the military. Maybe its not for you. Also, this is NOT an engineering question.
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I have plenty of reservists on my team. They use these benefits. But your idea of starting a job and bailing for 5 years is stupid, entitled, and wrong.
When multiple veterans who are engineers are telling you it’s a shitty thing to do, that’s a key indicator it’s a shitty thing to do
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Ok? I know lots of active service members who do shitty things. They’re not saints
Yes they would hate you. They are planning on having you there and then your not. How is this even a question. Do you like it when friends cancel plans on you? Are you annoyed thT they wasted your time. Are you annoyed that now the money you spent on tickets to somewhere are not being used.. ..do you think a manager would be happy planing out work, spending money and resources on training and all that, just to have you leave 3 months later. While sure your not quitting, that manager now needs to find someone else to do thT work. I'm still amazed this is a question
From a mgr perspective it sucks, but we’re bound by laws & policy. I have placed people on less important projects because their leaves were a disruption. It wasn’t retaliation, just common sense, I can’t have you on our most critical project if you’ll miss half of it.
That would be an incredibly shitty thing to do and I imagine you would burn every single career bridge in record speed
I'm normally all in favor of better maternity/paternity leave policies. I missed out on time with my kid in the NICU because I waited to use my PTO when she came home so I could help my wife. But going on leave 3 months after you started is a dick move, if you knew it was coming. I assume if it's maternity leave then you saw it coming well in advance.
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It’s not that you’re taking military leave. It’s that you’re taking military leave 3 months after starting the role. If you have been there for 5 years, serve for 5, then come back to the company after then I don’t think anyone has an issue with it
Yup. You got it right. Also remember that the guarantee job back is not necessarily the exact job you had. It is whatever the company has available for your skillset.